#39: From Sleep Schedules to Selfhood: Navigating Modern Motherhood, ft. Kismet Nakai

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
So it was a mild obsession whichI have passed on to a few people
who are willing to listen. Hello, beautiful people, and
welcome back to Parenthood, the podcast where we hold space for
real stories from real parents. I'm your host, Neha Gurd, and

(00:22):
I'm so glad you're here. Each week, we invite a fellow
parent to share what it really looks like to balance life,
love, work, identity, and everything in between while
raising tiny humans. Whether you are in the thick of
diapers and sleep regressions ornavigating teenage mood swings,

(00:43):
this space is for you. Today's episode is such a warm
one. I'm joined by someone who lights
up any room with her eye for beauty, her intentional way of
living, and her joyful approach to parenting.
Please welcome Kismat Nakai, a part time photographer, full
time Mama and all around wonderful human.

(01:06):
Kismat is in a long term relationship with her partner
Nitin Sareen, an aviation lawyer, and together they are
raising their spirited daughter Vera, born in 2018.
In her own words, this parentingjourney has been nothing short
of amazing, full of learning, joy, and routines that keep

(01:26):
everyone grounded. She's also passionate about
topics like baby LED weaning, sleep, and consistency, which I
know many listeners are going tolove digging into today.
So let's dive in. Kisma, thank you so much for
joining us today. Thank you Neha for having me.
Like I said, I have so much to say, but I don't know how are we

(01:48):
going to fit it all in one episode.
But we'll try. Yeah, let's, let's, let's.
Before we get into the parentingbit of things, let's begin with
a little self-portrait in words.If you had to talk about
yourself in three words or phrases that describe who you
are, what would they be and why?03 words or phrases?

(02:12):
Well, I am constantly confused but also quite adventurous and
yeah, I'm always just looking for things like following
whatever my heart wants to do and I have the luxury to do

(02:34):
that. So whether it's photography or
coffee or yoga, you know, full on parenting, I've had that
luxury. So I think the Jack of a lot of
trades. I love exploring kings and
opportunities. But of course, photography is my
like #1 love. So yeah, I think that kind of

(02:58):
explains me. Yeah, and let's let's meet the
people who shape your daily life.
Tell us about your family. Who are there and what are they
like? Luckily, we have a huge.
We have a lot of people around us.
Primarily it's just Nitin Beran,me and our one dog, Chiku.

(03:19):
We had three, but now we only have one.
Yeah. So she is the number one baby,
actually, because she was our first.
And then we had two others who passed away recently and who
have. We're all grown up with them, so
they're very, very much a part of our daily life.
And of course, the people who help us out in the house, they

(03:41):
make a big play, a huge role because especially for Vera, the
Playmates companions. And then we are fortunate enough
to have our parents nearby, bothsets of parents.
So that really, really helps andis a joy for us and them, I
think. Because, you know, I think

(04:02):
parents love their grandchildrenmore than they love their
children. So they can do all the things
that they couldn't do with us, like endless amounts of TV's,
spoiling them rotten, all those kind of things.
So those are, and we usually do get to see them daily, one set,
one person at least. So, you know, especially during

(04:23):
holidays, like these days, Vera gets to spend time with her
grandparents, which is amazing for them and us.
It breaks our long day up for sure.
So yeah. And then there's of course
Nitin, who is also, he works notfrom not far away and he gets to
come home very often. So our days kind of get

(04:44):
intermingled and there's always one of us at home at some point.
And you know, living in a place like Chandigarh really helps
because the distance is on that much.
So you, you can come home for 5 minutes, go home, go back to
office, you know, so everything kind of the whole day is very
full of each other. So that's really nice.
Yeah, yeah. And tell us more about where her

(05:06):
age, personality, what stage she's at.
So we're 6 1/2 now. Crazy to think that she's
already 6 1/2. She's a very interesting
personality. I know all parents say that, but
for example, she's not a COVID baby, but she was about 1 1/2

(05:27):
years old when COVID happened. So I feel that really shaped her
personality in a lot of ways because she ended up spending a
lot of time only with adults. So initially she was really
reserved, didn't speak up a lot.And you know how in society it's
like, whoa, he's the Vaspini Karti or like she doesn't talk
much. But we weren't like ever pushy

(05:50):
about that because we wanted herto take her time.
So there was a lot of, I think when everything opened up, it
took her a while to blossom, butwe chose, we have a lovely
school that she goes to, which makes a big difference.
And she's blossomed into this like amazing, like child who

(06:12):
loves to sing and participate and she's very like insightful.
She's very, she loves animals. So she's got that like, you
know, nurturing sort of thing. And if you kind of rationalize
with her, she understands. So it's it's a joy, but I think

(06:32):
she's like a little adult but also maintains her little
babyhood, you know, so I mean it's she's a very, very level
headed child. Yes.
And tell the. Story about her name please.
Oh, sorry, you were saying? No, no, no, I was going to come

(06:54):
down to the fact that I feel allof that is because she has a
routine and good sleep passage, but sorry about her name.
Yes, it's such a beautiful name.Thank you.
Thank you. As you know, choosing names is
so difficult. We were, I think it was like a
week before we kind of had a name for a boy, but we just

(07:16):
couldn't think of a name for a girl.
All the options were too long ortaken or just nothing was
fitting. I want to say we found it
through some beautiful way. We opened it in LinkedIn and we
started looking at all his people on his list because he

(07:36):
has people who work with him from all over the world.
And we saw Vera. And then when we looked at the
meaning, which is faith, we kindof like that.
And we wanted something that wasuniversal, easy to say, short,
you know, nothing like a tongue twister.
I think names do have an impact in your life in the longer run.

(07:56):
So we try to keep it short and sweet.
So that's it, that we found Veraand we were like, this Is it the
when we found her, it was the girl.
When she was born, it was like went without saying.
We're like, this is Vera. And it was that, Yeah.
And tell us about Nitin. How did you 2 meet and how has
your relationship evolved over the past more than a decade, 12

(08:20):
years? No, no more than that.
She, I was 18. So wow, that's like 3 decades.
No, 2 1/2 decades. I mean, it's a very generous
story. We families know each other.
He was a little younger than me and we kind of met each other

(08:41):
strangely on ICQ, do you remember?
And we went different schools and there was like some rumours
that he had said something aboutme.
So I had like messaged him to belike, why you talking about me?
And then we started chatting andthen we went on walks and we
like, you know, got to know eachother better.
And our families already knew each other from like years

(09:04):
before. So we like, dated for a decade
before getting married. Yeah.
Yeah. So I mean, it's just it's very
similar to both our parents stories because both our parents
are like childhood sweethearts. So it kind of went panned out in
the same way. Yeah.
And I mean, and you ask how it evolved is that, I mean, as you

(09:29):
grow, because if you spend so many years with one person, you
kind of your companionship becomes quite solid.
And we were always on the same page about everything.
And when Vera was born, of course, it was like, really like
solidified everything because wewere absolutely on the same page

(09:49):
and we balanced each other out, you know, because there are
times when one person just can'tdeal with it.
Yeah, I was never like, it was never like, oh, it's the mom's
duty kind of deal. He's always been very, very
present despite his crazy work schedule.
COVID really helped us in that department because he got to
spend so much time at home, which otherwise he would have

(10:10):
been travelling. So for him it was like a
blessing and me. Yeah.
Because sometimes I need to walkout of the room and, you know,
he kind of balances the situation.
So yeah, I mean, there is that she wants him more than she
wants me or she wants. I think it's more him now the
days because we kind of get like, locked.

(10:33):
But yeah, so it's really like just evolved into something
lovely. Yeah, tell me.
I'm very interested to know. You know, you talked about how
you balance each other out. So are there any unspoken
understandings or conscious agreements that keep this
partnership thriving? Like in terms of raising a child

(10:55):
or in general? In general, and especially with
raising a child. Yeah, I think like it's unspoken
because it's kind of been in tandem the whole time.
So like he's very aware that, you know, when I feel a little
flustered or like too overwhelmed by everything that's

(11:16):
going on, then he kind of just steps in and be like, if it's
simple things like, you know, spending bedtime or for me to be
able to go away for like 5 days,10 days, like he can manage.
So or, you know, he can go away for like 10 days and I can
manage because we've got such a good routine that that helps us,

(11:39):
I think more than anything else because everybody knows kind of
what to expect, you know, then all surprises.
And if there is a surprise, we're fully equipped to handle
that. So I think that really, if it's
really unspoken, it's kind of like when you've known someone
so long, you feel, you can like tell what the other person's

(12:01):
feeling or like what they might feel.
So you kind of step in or you step out, whichever 1 is
required. So yeah.
And you talk so much about routine.
So tell us about those routines.How?
And is that because of your background?
You are an Army kid, right? No, my dad, my granddad was an

(12:23):
army child. Oh, OK.
That has kind of. I guess so like I feel I've
always, maybe it's more when youlive in a place like Chandigarh,
you kind of have to set a routine if you don't have a nine
to five job especially otherwiseyou can't are all over the

(12:44):
place. So I think even before where I
was born, it was always like I knew I had my day set out, I
knew what I wanted to do, how I wanted to do it, but I was never
like hardcore, like, Oh my God, this is how it is.
But when where I was born and I read up so much about everything
and everywhere, it was like consistency routine, like just

(13:07):
stick to it and your life will be sorted.
And I'm like, OK, there has to be some truth to it.
And of course there's like the 8020, like 80% of the time you
be routine, like consistent, but20% of the time it doesn't
matter. But I think once you have like
something that is already in motion, then like, I get a lot

(13:27):
of flag for it from people because they're like, oh, you
know, you're like so stuck in your ways.
And I'm like, but everybody's happy.
So, you know, if, if I'm, if theroutine is working, why am I
going to fight it to a point? Like I remember because we had
some nap schedule was like very cut, cut.
Like you had to be on this nap schedule.

(13:48):
A pediatrician who was a dear friend of the family.
His timing was like 2:00 PM and 1:00 or something one to do.
And I was like, she can't come. She's sleeping.
And she's like, what do you mean?
I'm like, she just cannot come. I can come at 2:15 after I've
woken her up. And he was like, but in our
time, like our parents would take us everywhere.

(14:10):
And I'm like, I'm sorry. And like he understood.
And then he started telling people to come to me to ask for
sleep advice because I was like,so so we would wake her up at 2.
And because Chandigarh is small,like drive and be there by 2:15.
But I was like, I'm not waking her up before her nap time is
over because my whole day would depend on that.

(14:31):
Like, hey, so I mean, people thought I was.
I think they might still think I'm a little crazy like that,
but it's fine. What does?
What does routine look like now?So now it's, it's a lot in her
hands in the sense like she's always been an early riser, but

(14:54):
I think children's circadian system is such that they wake up
like at 6:00-ish or whatever, but she wakes up like 6 exact no
matter, no matter what time. And people like make her sleep
later. And I'm like, it's not going to
happen. And she, she has never
overslept. I have never had to wake her up
to school. So it works really well on a
school day, but holidays it's really, it could be difficult.

(15:18):
But Nathan takes that on becauseshe goes and wakes him up.
She never wakes me up. Wow.
Yeah, so she wakes up and because summer holiday routine
or just the like in general? General like today's routine.
So like, she woke up and then now she started reading.
So she's into Dog Man? Yeah.

(15:39):
And so she was reading on her own for like an hour and a half.
Then I made like we had breakfast and she wanted to go
to her grandparents. I dropped her there where she
goes and she has her own routinethere.
So she'll watch her. She has she has screen time, but
it's everything is like in slots.
So she knows like this is the slot and then she has to stop

(15:59):
and she's very good about that. So we never have like she won't
randomly want to watch. So she watches with them and she
gets extra time there, obviously.
Then she draws and dances with the nanny and then nanny drops
her home and now she'll come back, she'll play.
We have like a little splash pool.
She'll spend some time there, lunchtime, playtime, watch for

(16:21):
an hour, some more play. Then 8:00 is 7:00 is her dinner
time, 8:00 is her bedtime where we read her her stories, and
then by 8:30 she's asleep. Yeah.
Beautiful. Yeah.
Yeah. But like, I mean, you know,
routine. I think now it's because as they

(16:43):
get older anyway, they're so tired.
They have piano classes, they have these classes.
So this kind of sorts you out. But when they're younger, then
you are kind of in charge of theroutine.
So like, if she when she was on a nap schedule, it was up to us
to make sure she had a place to nap.
She was engaged for these many hours.
She was asleep by like food times or like, you know, certain

(17:07):
timings. It wasn't just like any time.
I mean, it was, it wasn't rigid,but it was just, it was just a
timetable. So and.
I think it helps everyone. As you said, you know there are
no surprise. I mean, even if there are
surprises, you're kind of it's within those kind.
Of. Limits, yeah.
I mean, and that is what has really helped.

(17:29):
Even when she's sick, like she knows that I, this is what I'm
even like, I just, we just tell her that, you know, tomorrow
it's going to be like this or this is what's going to happen
and it's going to be different from yesterday.
And that just sorts her out. You know, she had a lot of
anxiety going to school for likethe longest time.

(17:51):
She had huge separation anxiety.And at certain points, she just
want to be like, I'll just take you out of school.
It's fine. Because every single day she
would look at me and she's she would tell me I'm going to miss
you. And she would make these big
weepy eyes. And she would only say to me
when I was dropping her, she waslike, I miss you.
I missed you. And I was like, Oh my God, like,

(18:12):
why am I torturing you? But just because we were like,
you will go tomorrow. I've told your teacher to look,
keep an extra eye on you. She just found that consistency
of me just saying that also I think just helped her.
So I think I mean that is my point is like whatever you do,
either prepare the child or liketell them because we often treat

(18:36):
them like they should adapt to us or like they won't understand
or whatever. But even when she was a baby, we
used to talk to her like properly, you know, no baby
talk. Like we would tell how we're
changing your nappy. We're, you know how they say in
some places ask the child, we would be like, OK, we're doing
this. We're like in just

(18:58):
self-awareness. I think it gets a little
confused with like how massages and stuff are like thought are
old traditions, but actually it's, you know, body awareness.
You're talking about their legs,their arms, their understanding,
their hearing, their receptive language is way earlier than the
expressive language. So just understanding that and

(19:22):
trying to get in tune with that.Yeah, you know, yeah, it's a
full on job. Oh, yes, Oh, yes.
And tell me, you know, for the sake of our listeners, I want to
ask this question because it might look like that.
It's so rigid. So, you know, you have a very

(19:42):
regimented life. But tell me, what does joy look
like in your home on an ordinaryday?
Where does the laughter come? From OK, no, we're not like, oh,
if you don't do this, you're like, you're going to be in
trouble. No, it's like it's a self
greased machine. It's just functioning.
It's working. Nobody is telling.
Like she knows she'll be like she'll come in, she'll come to

(20:04):
me exactly at 4:00 and she'll belike, is it my TV time?
But she knows in her brain, is it my dinner time?
Is it my bath time? You know, the joy is like all
the time. She she loves her stuffed
animals and her Barbies. So she, you know, has pretend.
Parties like yesterday she was like, it's my baby's birthday,

(20:26):
so we had to go out and we bought a cupcake and balloons.
And like, so she's got this crazy imagination and she loves
to play pretend. And then I mean we go, we go for
she wants to go for forest walks.
She makes me take her for a walkor we go together.
And in the mornings we like kindof go in the garden and we

(20:50):
pretend we're on a forest walk. She goes on drives with her
father. I take her on a motorcycle.
I mean, so it's like constantly.I like touch wood.
She never really throws stantrums.
She never cries. So she has a great sense of
humour. She laughs at herself, she
laughs at us. The joy is like, I don't want to

(21:12):
nuzzle it, but like, it's omnipresent.
It's just that I tell him I'm like, let's go out for dinner
tonight. You sleep late.
She's like, I don't want to. I want to sleep, you know.
So I'm like, why should I fight that?
Yeah. So she loves movies.
She loves to go for, like, movies.
And she'll watch the trailer before.

(21:34):
So she's very, like, with it. And yeah, that's our joy.
Like, you know, she'll be like, let's cook something.
She'd pull out a friend gave a cooking a cookbook for her like,
you know, one of those kiddy ones.
She like pull it out and we'll make something from that.
It's full on. But it's like so nice because
there's never. And she like because she's so

(21:58):
purpose. Like she can say what she's
feeling. She'll be like today I want to
take a nap. She'll close her curtains,
she'll take a nap. She'll be like, today I want to
do this. Can we do it?
So we'll do that. So it's like, really nice to be
able to have that, you know, back and forth, yeah.
Yeah. And tell me is there, I want to

(22:21):
ask this question more from the understanding that, you know,
you have thought of something. So is there a kind of childhood
that you're hoping to shape for Vera, or is it like, let's take
it how it comes? Good question.
I think it's not like a solid thought, but it's just that she

(22:47):
should enjoy her childhood and she should become like the
person that she totally wants tobe.
She and for me, I the only thingthat I give thought to is that
express how you're feeling, whether it's like a happy
thought or a sad thought. If you're upset, if you're
happy, whatever it is, express yourself like I don't care if it

(23:10):
upset me or like, you know, whatever it is because we had
great childhoods. So I want to replicate that as
well. Some of the things that my
parents instilled in me, I wonder, I'm like, how do they do
that? Like, what is it?
What were the and you know, parenting back then was just
like reflowing mostly our mothers.

(23:32):
So there was no like research and they were like looking our
Instagram. But so I want to be, I want to
be able to give her those valuesthat I have because of my
parents. Though the only thing that I
feel which lacked when we were kids was that we were never told
to say I'm not OK. Like I am having a bad day.

(23:53):
I want to cry. Everyone would say don't cry.
You're a brave girl or a brave boy like you know.
So for me, that is one thing I want to break.
I want to be like, if you want to cry, cry.
And she does like sometimes she just like cries.
And I'm like, what's wrong? And she's like, I don't know.
And I'm like, that's fine, you know, And because I think that

(24:16):
I've studied a lot of like psychology and child development
before. So I feel like maybe that's a
trace of that. But also, it's later on in life
to be able to tell someone or a situation that I'm not OK right
now and I don't want to deal with this.
I'll deal with it in my own time.
But I just want you to know, like, I feel like having her

(24:39):
die, it's OK. It's not a big deal.
It's not a sign of weakness, youknow?
So everything else that we do, we want her to like figure it
out by watching us. So we have to set good examples.
If we are exercising or if, you know, we're reading books, she's
going to read books. And it's true.
Like, she wants to do yoga because she keeps seeing me
doing it. Or, you know, she's into

(25:01):
aeroplanes because her dad's into aeroplanes.
But we haven't, like, shoved it down her throat.
So it's not like a conscious really thought of this is how a
childhood should look. And it also shouldn't be like,
she's oblivious to, you know, things that happen.
But I mean, there are situationslike right now when this whole

(25:21):
fighting situation was happening, like, how do you
tackle that? Do you protect them?
Do you kind of tell them becauseit's a fine balance, right?
Am I going to tell her somethingthat's going to give her
nightmares at night? You know, am I going to tell her
that's not going to make her prepared for like, the worst
case scenario tomorrow? So those are things that you
have to think about. But generally, largely speaking,

(25:45):
I think we just try and do my example more than really
thinking, I like just it's always, I'm always thinking
like, what do my parents? How do they do that?
Like, why do I feel this way so strongly and like not the other
way? And what is it that they did?

(26:05):
And I think at least I can speakfor my my childhood is that our
parents really regarded as as equals almost.
I mean, obviously they told us what like we were their kids.
But whether it was like alcohol or like partying, there was
never that stigma. Like I never had that reason to

(26:27):
sneak out of the house and go somewhere or drink a beer
sneakily. Like it was an open relation.
I didn't abuse it. I didn't over, I didn't think, I
didn't need to. So I'll those are little things,
you know, that you think about later.
Then what? What is it like?
How did that become a part of me, you know?
So yeah, stuff like that. Basically it's just an ongoing

(26:48):
for every day. It's like something new, so.
And, and let's go back to where it began, this journey of
parenthood. I, I'm Is it something that you
and Nitin both always knew you wanted?
In fact, no, I did not want to get married and I did not want
to have a child. I was very anti society.

(27:12):
Like I don't want to be put intoany boxes.
Yeah, I mean, marriage happened because we were already
committed. So it wasn't like, Oh my God,
I'm doing something against my principles.
So it was very natural. We never like really spoke about
having a child, though. If we did, we were like on the

(27:35):
fence. It was almost like an epiphany,
like, Oh my God, we have to havea child.
Like, and it was for me, it was like, OK, but and when we did
have where our people, like our parents were shocked.
They were like, we never thoughtyou would have weird.
Like nobody asked us. Nobody pressured us nothing
because they were like, we were certain, like, you're not going

(27:58):
to have a child. So it was like a very innate
sort of primal feeling. Yeah.
And I was like a geriatric pregnancy, right?
Because I was 56. So it's not even like, oh,
you're like the spring chicken. So, yeah, I mean, we just knew
at that point that this is what we wanted and would never change

(28:20):
that for, like, anything. Yeah, yeah.
And, and you know how they say motherhood changes you and it
shifts so many things for you. So was was that something that
happened for you or was it like a gradual, you know, journey?
Has it been a gradual journey ofevolving or there was a done?

(28:45):
Yeah, I think it was definitely like, gradual again, because
you're so focused on a human, literally human, you're really
not focused. And this is a big bone of
contention for me, is that mothers do not get enough.
Yeah, like knowledge. I mean, I know they get support,
but not the kind of support thatthey need before a baby is born.

(29:07):
There's nothing really telling you.
Like nobody tells you the truth.You have all these questions.
No one's told you anything. I make it a point to tell anyone
who's pregnant, Like, this is the good stuff.
This is the ugly stuff. Yeah, it's going to happen.
Like, I mean, no one. There was no way.

(29:27):
They say no one can prepare you,but I think they are always to
be prepared in a lot of ways, basic stuff to complicated
stuff. I think everything can have like
some sort of a base level because no journey is the same
anyway. So I hope like that changes.
I know it is changing now and people are a bit more aware and
like, you know, so motherhood doesn't come in this like bomb

(29:52):
on you because whatever you say.I mean, I think moms super
heroes, like when I think about it, I'm like first, our bodies
are going through so much. Our minds are going through so
much, our lives are never going to be the same again because you
have a part of you living outside your body.
And even if it's like your husband will never understand,
the other partner will never understand.

(30:14):
It's just nature, right? So for me, it was gradual,
definitely. But it went from like, OK, this
is OK, like normal, normal. And then suddenly you're like,
Oh my God, what have I done? Like I have done something
amazing. So like that, I think
realization comes when they're older because you're just like,
wow, I make that human and like,and then you internalize and you

(30:38):
see all the changes that you have gone through.
Your mind changes your, you know, the way you think changes.
It does. It's a very, it's been very
gradual for me. It wasn't like I always wanted
to be a mom. So it wasn't like one of the
things I wanted. It was.
But now that I'm here, I feel like it's a huge part of me,

(31:02):
obviously, but like something that I take pride in and I want
to do my best at. And again, it's, you know,
situational because I have that ability to be able to put like
100% into this. I know people have like jobs and
two kids and three kids and my job is part time.

(31:23):
I'm able to like, you know, stopworking for I've haven't worked
for these years and things like that.
So, and we have a huge support system, like our families and
stuff. So it really, really makes a big
difference even for the mom. So I, I know a friend of mine
just had a baby and her husband was like, did you also go
through like all these moments of like just crying?

(31:47):
Like, like it's totally normal. Just let her cry because it's
not even that she wants to, it'sjust her body.
Yeah. Is that way right now.
And you know, like I was readingthis book.
It's called Metrescence. It's about motherhood and
generally how now there was never any research based on

(32:08):
mothers. So now slowly, slowly, that
importance is being given to, you know, like the whole
birthing process and she how shehad three children before she
kind of realized the changes andhow like, you know, everything
is centered around the male, even research and everything and
not like women's changing bodies.

(32:30):
And we like literally change every single month.
So I like that is something thatI want to really get into.
And I always like, think about it because moms definitely need
a lot more support, you know, and if you're fortunate, you
like, I had one really good friend who had a baby before me
and whose opinion I appreciate and would mistake.

(32:53):
Not everybody's so one or two actually.
And they are the ones who I would ask for like, you know,
guidance or like, what is the next thing?
And then I try to be that for other mums who are my friends,
Like, just be real, you know, whether it's like something

(33:14):
you've read on the Internet and you want to do what the Internet
is saying, not do what the Internet is saying.
And so that, you know, the othermoms can be like, it's OK, don't
do it. If it's not working for you,
it's fine because you know, you're under so much pressure at
all times. So see, I have heard of going to
another direction. You know, but I, I, I think

(33:37):
you're saying pretty valid things because this is a very,
very less talked about part of motherhood that, you know, and
you think that, you know, everything either comes to us
very, very instinctively or it'slike everybody does it and you
will do it too. But the process, the what you go

(33:59):
through, nobody talks about that.
And yeah, so I. Think like, I think about that a
lot. Like, I also think that not
everybody should be a parent until they know for certain that
they can handle it. You know, like there should be
some sort of a test. Like you're going home with a

(34:20):
baby and none of us know what the hell we're going to do with
this child because no one's prepped us, you know, either You
go through something like where you know that this is exactly, I
mean, but there is no way to do that, right?
I mean, you can't. I mean, it's illogical.
It makes no sense, but I feel like it is not instinctive for a

(34:40):
lot of people. And when they don't feel that,
they feel like I'm doing something wrong.
There's so many comparisons, like, oh, did you have a normal
birth or AC section or like did you breastfeed the baby or did?
And I'm like, I'm not going to tell you any of that because
that has no, it doesn't have anystudy.
Yeah. I mean, we've all gone through

(35:01):
the same thing at some level. Like it has been difficult.
It has been super easy, whateverit is.
I mean, you can't sit here and compare, but that's all we do.
You know, that's and it's OK. You've oh wow, You like look
exactly like you did before you had the baby, which is like,
it's like, should I be thinking about that, about my baby's

(35:24):
health? Like I need to focus.
But it's so much societies putting so much pressure on
women, you know, like, oh, wow, look, she's already looking
normal. Like, what is normal?
Like, it really bothers me. Or even with Vera, you know, and
everybody would be like, she's so quiet.
She doesn't talk. And I'm like, she doesn't want
to talk. That's her choice, You know,

(35:46):
like, she'll talk. And I'm like, that's just how
she is. And when she's comfortable,
she'll be, you know, like, you have to find the words to say
because Vera's also listening. People are like kind of throwing
judgements at her. And if you read, I mean, if you
do the research, then you see that they say children who
assess and are quieter are like,it's good better for them later

(36:08):
on in life because they're seeing how like, you know,
strange anxiety or like safety. So I mean, like, I'm not going
to sit there and start explaining this stuff to you.
But so I think in general, my point is that like people need
to take a children and not judgemoms, especially, you know,
because everyone is struggling at some level, especially

(36:32):
mothers. And I think some will say it and
most will not say it because ego.
It's hard to say it. It's hard to say it.
It's hard to say I am suffering and I am like, this is
difficult. Can you help me?
And this is a bit like these arethe things that have taken
through the year. Like if you have a new baby, if
you need 2 hours alone, I literally will take the baby

(36:55):
from you and I will chill with the baby.
I don't care because baby is so easy in comparison, you know,
because that is all that a new mom needs actually is like a
couple of hours and it's good for the baby also because
otherwise the baby has got moms stress, you know, which is also

(37:15):
the other thing is like the minute you are stressed, it's
like direct transfer direct. Like I have seen that happen.
And that's where a partner who understands really, really
helps. Like I would just be wired and I
would just not be able to function.
I would just give Vera to Nitin and be like stepping out of the

(37:36):
room, stepping out of the house.I'll be back in an hour and I
keep good manage that, which is something also which is so
important. Like there should not be this
thing that oh, he's such an involved father.
No, he is the father. He is the father.
Yeah. You know, people will be like.
Oh, he's so involved and, like, obviously, like, what?

(38:00):
Yeah, but it's not. But it's not obvious, you know?
But it is a choice. I mean, it's strange that it is
a choice for the fathers, but for who says this about the
mothers, that she is such an involved mother?
Yeah, exactly. Or they'll be like, Oh my God,
she works so much that she neversees her child.
Like, excuse me, you know, but like my brother was like at stay

(38:25):
at home dad. He and his wife was super, super
hard. So I mean, that's a typical
situation which you don't see every day, But it was never
like, look at this amazing setup.
No, it's like when anyone could step in, they stepped in because
they had to. That was it was the commitment
is that you're raising a child together.

(38:46):
Some days I'm going to do more than you and some days you're
going to do more than me. And I think that's normal.
And that should be like the normeverywhere.
It's, it's a, it's a really funny thing because we, on our
school chats, we have like school groups and the only
mothers, like 90% of them are mothers.
Oh my God, Oh my God, this is this is the personal pet peeve

(39:11):
of mine. And I'm like, where are the
fathers? You know one of our very close
friends and they they are havingtheir child's birthday come up
and on our friends group like where spouses they floated a
message for a subgroup that all the mommies please join in and

(39:32):
I'm like, why should the mommy so agitated and my husband had
to like calm me down on me. It's.
OK, but this is what happens allthe time.
So little and like three other dads are on the group as well.
But the mothers will always be like, hey mommies, what's
happening? And it will be like daddy,

(39:53):
daddy's also. And I'm like, if they are also
not understanding that this is apossibility that a daddy can be
on the group. And why should it be like that,
you know? Yeah, I like.
Vera doesn't let us go for birthday party.
She doesn't go alone yet. So one of us has to go along.
So we split that duty. I am not going every time for a

(40:13):
birthday party, no. Yeah.
So then they see and they're like, Oh my God, the Father is
I'm like, wow. So yeah.
I mean, it's like things don't have to be broken at all level.
Yeah, you can imagine like old, like the earlier generations, it
was like totally unheard of. Yeah, even now there are so many

(40:34):
things like park time. I mean my son goes to the parks
like solely with my partner. Yeah.
Live with my partner. I only go sometimes because I
feel like going and those are like, you're so lucky you're.
You're like, yeah, I don't see that being unusual.

(40:57):
I mean, The thing is that even now when I do my extracurricular
things, like if I go skating or whatever I'm doing, people are
like, well, how, how have you managed?
And I'm like, there are two ways.
You have a person who's supporting you, your partner,
and you have a routine. So I know that from this time to
this time, she is, you know, doing something so I can like I

(41:20):
can go to the gym, I can go wherever I have to because I
need to. If I don't, there are a lot of
times when I'm at home and I cannot do anything at all
because you know how they are snag look at this come and see.
So you are like, your brain is constantly everywhere but on
your thing that you have to do. So yeah, like if you have an

(41:43):
office, that's great. You can like kind of walk out
and go away and say, OK, I've got two hours or three hours,
whatever it is. But if you're at home, you're
never off duty. Yes.
So I thought like, it's a struggle, but also, again, it's
a luxury and I can do that. So, you know, but you have to be
mindful of that. Yeah, yeah.

(42:06):
Tell me, Kismet, if you had to pick one memory, say from your
early parenting journey that still lives quite vividly in
your heart, what would that be? My obsession with sleep.
Yours or, whereas no. No, it was fully my obsession.

(42:26):
I had gotten totally into it. So I had like deep.
But yeah, that was parenting forme was like making sure that she
was just well rested, I think. I know it sounds crazy, but I
really feel it made a big difference in her personality.

(42:46):
So it was a mild obsession, which I have passed on to a few
people who are willing to listen.
But yeah, I mean, like, also, I think I was, I spent a lot of
time on my own. I spent a lot of time with
myself. So having someone like with me,

(43:08):
a responsibility, it wasn't likesomething terrible, you know, it
was like something amazing. Like, wow, like I'm able to
spend so much time with this person or human.
Yeah. And I love it.
Like, you know, and I think now when you think back, because,

(43:29):
you know, the first year is really hard, it's really long.
And then after that, it's just like now when I look at those
videos and things, you're like, Oh my God, those are like
amazing times, right? So I think all of it, it's I
can't really pinpoint anything, which it's just been such a huge
learning curve for all of us as humans, as people understanding

(43:53):
like so many things that I wouldnever, I would never ever really
have talked about earlier. And though I, I totally agree,
people who don't want to have children should not have
children. I mean, they don't.
I don't want, I never tell anyone have a child.
I never tell anyone have two children.
It's totally your choice. But also it is one of the most

(44:15):
amazing things, yeah, like to have experienced in this
lifetime. I think it is by far an amazing
like experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And tell me as a creative person, do you feel that having
Vera with you, you know, parenting her is, has that

(44:37):
shifted your perspective in terms of purely in terms of, you
know, your work, your creativity, your professional
journey and how you look at all of that and how you look at
photography as as something has,has something changed?
No I don't think so. Like I feel it's because she's

(45:00):
now amused so I get to take photographs of her or like when
she's looking at me taking photographs she wants to do the
same. So apart from that I think not
really though I haven't really been able to explore too much
till the last. Like I just sort of picked up my

(45:21):
camera again a year ish ago because one doesn't find that
kind of time like in, but when you're creative and if you have
to like plan a photo shoot, you need hours before, you need
hours during, you need hours after.
So in for me because one of us wants to be around like, yeah,

(45:45):
at meal times or dinner time. So we have to really, really
coordinate a lot. So sometimes that comes in the
way, but it's fine. Like, now she's older, Yeah.
So it makes it easier. And she, we can stretch times.
We can like, you know, change times around.
Take her along, though. It's very hard.
Like if I take her for a shoot, it's not going to happen.

(46:06):
Like either you can shoot, focuson the shoot, or you can focus
on. Her because I know every two
minutes would be like, look at this, I'm hungry.
What should I do? Like all these questions so that
people say bring her for the shoot.
I'm like, no, I mean, you know, full like when I used to shoot
weddings, I wouldn't even eat cuz I was like, I can't, my

(46:27):
focus has to be on what I'm doing.
So I mean, yeah, but I think creatively maybe one wants to be
more creative or they make you more creative because they're
also constantly exploring and learning things.
So yeah. And OK, this has just been so

(46:49):
goody, goody and, you know, all the good parts we have heard
about, but has there been a moment that felt particularly
challenging or overwhelming as aparent that, Oh my God, what
have I gotten myself into? No, I never felt that.
Like never felt like, what have I done?

(47:10):
Like I, I don't think either of us have felt that because a,
like she is really an easy child.
So the, I think the one time I, I own, she fell off the sofa and
she hit her head and went to geta CT scan and I was like, Oh my

(47:30):
God, like what have I done? Like I literally, they don't
want to explain how you feel because you're just like, I
can't control the situation. But I have willingly had this
given birth to a child and now it's out out of my body and I
can't like protect it forever. I think that is the kind of fear

(47:52):
you have. So negative.
Like I mean, obviously it has its challenges.
There's some days where like, and as she gets older and she's
like more of her own person and she's a lot like me.
So it's like me giving myself nonsense.
So it becomes hard. Like there are days where I'm

(48:13):
like, I can't, like, I don't know what I don't know, like how
to handle it. And it will always be like, but
you're the one. You'll figure it out.
You know what to do. You always figure it out.
I'm like, no, I can't. Like it might not happen this
time, you know, like to resolve a situation like even like
school was a challenge for us. It was a huge challenge.

(48:34):
We really struggled because she was unhappy.
But again, we had school is amazing.
The teachers were amazing, you know, So if you actually had
seen her three years ago, you would have never thought like
she would be this child because I I'm like anxious when classes
change because new teachers, they shuffle the the things.

(48:57):
And this year was so smooth. Yeah.
And that is something that they teach you about.
I mean, children teach you is their resilience, their ability
to adapt. But obviously it really makes a
difference, like the support system.
So our last teachers was so amazing, but that's what she

(49:18):
used to keep. We used to keep thanking her and
she used to keep thanking us because she's like, without you
guys, like we would not be able to make these changes.
And I'm like, but because of youguys, we were able to make these
changes. So for me, school is like for
both of us, other is like socializing, yeah, you know,
exploring like your personality.OK, education's a huge thing.

(49:40):
But like you need to be able like, you know, just also have
someone else disciplining you versus because we are like very
chill and like, so a lot of people keep saying you're so
gentle. I'm like, but I don't need to be
anything else, you know? And when I'm not, like when I
have to put a point across, I tell her and she understands.

(50:03):
And she's just, that's just her personal, like her personality.
But yeah, so school was definitely like something very
challenging. And there were a lot of days
where that was very difficult. But day by day it was just like,
OK, we'll take today, We'll taketomorrow.
Every day it's going to like just be one day at a time,

(50:26):
basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I also want to talk to you about, you know, you said
something that struck with me there, baby LED weaning.
What drew you to it and how did you approach introducing food to
weather? So again, because we didn't have
like, I didn't have too many people to like, kind of talk to.

(50:49):
Yeah. I my two very good friends who
already had children kind of told me what they had been
doing, but I got very into like the resources available on the
Internet. So like my sleeping lady is
taking care of babies. I don't know if you've heard of
her. She has a full on like course

(51:10):
and videos and resources. So she was like my number one
person who I kind of start I sawand because then if you are
like, and that was I think before people were really like
on the Internet like Instagram like that.
But I found her by some stroke of luck and I followed her to
the tee. And because I was following her,
I started getting like all thesethings.

(51:32):
And when by the time she was like 4 months, you start
wondering about food and stuff. And I found these two ladies
also baby like weaning, it's called only.
Oh, no feeding littles. Feeding littles.
Yeah, Yeah. So I found them and I was like,
oh, what is this baby LED weaning?
Like I thought we just feed muchto the babies and forcing down

(51:55):
their throats like helicopter iscoming.
Well, that's all we knew, right?Yeah.
And like my brother had, I spenta lot of time with his daughter
and they also just did what everyone used to do, like, you
know, and and she's a good eater, like nothing.
Whatever. Once I got into it.
So I saw the feeding little things and I started like
beating up about it. And I'm like, Oh my God, this is

(52:16):
amazing. Yeah.
But also, like, there's so many things to worry about, you know,
like gagging and choking and like allergies.
And I was like, I don't know, I just followed instinct again.
It was like gut feeling. I was like, we're just, I'm not
giving her like smushed up food because I'm not going to.

(52:40):
Everything was like a transition.
You transition from this to this, you trans.
So your whole life is like transitions from a swaddle into
a like, what are they called those sleeping bed things used
to like a cotch to a bed to everything was like transition
transitions. And I was like, I am not taking
one more transition from mushy food to solid food.

(53:02):
Yeah. So I was like, plus I wanted her
to like feel the textures. I wanted her to get dirty.
I wanted her to, like, experience, like food and then
make her decisions. Yeah, I know it sounds crazy
because she's like 5 months old,but she did.
Yeah. Like I we started with avocados

(53:24):
and bananas. By 6 months she was eating like
chicken. She because people are like, oh,
she they don't have teeth, they can't chew and I'm like, please,
they don't need. Teeth to do.
I was like, have you put your finger inside a baby's mouth?
Have you And then they've bittenyou without teeth, it hurts.
Of course, there were like a lotof challenges because again, it

(53:47):
was my dad used to get really mad at me because, you know,
like she wouldn't choke, but shewas gagging because also like
you don't want that the gag reflexes further up to protect
them or whatever it is. So I had done all that research,
but when she would be sitting with us and eating and like
messing up her plate, they'd be like, what is she doing?
And Oh my God, she's going to choke.

(54:07):
And I'm like, just calm down. So it was a big bone of
contention, but I again, stubborn and I was like, I'm
going to do whatever I have to. So by one year she had like
tried 100 foods. She loved things like beetroot,
she loved tomatoes. And I would the number one thing
that I did, which I think everybody should do is like

(54:30):
giving mita, like giving sweets,candy, whatever it was, it used
to be on her plate. She would taste it and she would
throw it. It was her choice.
It was never a reward. Like I think that was the
biggest thing I learned because that again, it's like such a big
thing. You know, you do this, you'll
get a toffee. You do that, you'll get this.

(54:50):
So it was just one thing that they said they'd give everything
on the plate, let the child choose.
And I think she only started eating chocolate now because she
goes to school and she gets there, but people would give her
chocolate. She like, I don't like it.
And she still says, oh, it's so sweet or you know, I don't want
that. I'd rather eat a tomato or I

(55:12):
don't eat cake. Like she just likes plain cake.
So, and that is nothing that I have said that this is what you
should do. It was just presented.
So I think it gives them a lot of independence knowing that
this food is in front of me. I can choose what I want.
I never said finish the food on your plate gave her like smaller

(55:33):
helping. So she finished whatever was
there. So this course really did help
in the terms of support. Like they tell you how to handle
situations if it's and then theytell you just don't worry about
mess the mess. Like, you know, she used to wear
those bibs were fully up to here.
She had like yogurt all over herface, but better than like

(55:57):
growing up and being like, Oh myGod, I can't get my fingers
dirty, you know? So for me it was like that was
my thought. So at that point it was a
thought that she should have like obviously.
And then every child reaches thepoint where they only want to
eat pasta, pizza and French fries.
So you have to, I accept that. Like, I'm not going to fight

(56:18):
this fact that she loves her pasta and pizza.
And she also really doesn't eat lunch because she eats a huge
breakfast. She has a snack and then she has
another snack and then she has avery good dinner.
So that is another thing is like, they you load up in one
meal. Yeah.
So they, it keeps them going through the day.
She loves her breakfast, you know, or like how long a child

(56:44):
can sit in a chair. Yeah, is dependent on their age.
So I mean, these resources were available and had I not had
them, it's just like small, small tips that kind of get you.
Like if you expect a child to sit in a high chair for 10-15
minutes and you're trying to shove food down their throat,
they are going to throw a tantrum, right.

(57:04):
But it was from her bottle. So she never took the bottle,
which was daughter not intentional.
I tried and I tried, but she just did not do that.
But we had feeding times. Yeah, she had her.
Then it became her snack times. Then it became like whatever.
So everything followed a certain.
It just gave her that feeling that I know what's going to

(57:28):
happen. I came to, you know, it's in
front of me. No one is shoving it down my
throat. It's OK if I drop stuff on the
floor. We had dogs that were eating
them up before. I mean, why are we focusing on,
like, cleaning your mouth? It doesn't matter.
Like, I'm two years old. You know, I'm not going for a
party. I'm not going for a big fancy

(57:48):
meeting. It's fine.
Yeah. I mean, it's like, so that is
also the other things that you learn to chill a little bit,
like, even though you're like kind of being very regimental,
but also like, yeah, things are going to happen.
Just let them happen. Yeah.
Which I think we don't do. Everyone is like, oh, she's not

(58:08):
eaten. Keep feeding them.
Keep. She's cranky.
She must need to eat. No, there are other reasons that
children get cranky, you know? And like, you don't have to
chase them to eat or you don't need to put that screen in front
of them to eat. Yeah.
But if if that's the only way it's happening, that's also it's
fine. Yeah.
You know, like that's your way. Yeah, and I think that is a big

(58:31):
thing also. Like everyone's like I, they're
too scared to be like, I'm doingwhat I think works.
So like, I am on a group with a bunch of old friends and now
most of us have kids and we've done things similarly.
We've done things completely different, you know, and we talk
about it all the time. Like they're like, it's not.

(58:51):
So like the thing about sleep orwhatever and but we accept that.
So one of them just had a baby and she was like, should I give
my baby the pacifier? Should I not?
And I said just do what you haveto to say same at this point.
Like no one tells you that, but it's OK.

(59:12):
Like you don't see a 15 year oldwith a pacifier.
So it's fine. Maybe when I when I was younger,
I would have been like, no, no, don't give the pacifier.
Like, that's my point of view, but that's how I have evolved as
well, to know that it is OK thatdifferent children have
different needs. Different parents have different

(59:33):
needs. Yeah.
If you want to have a nanny, take that nanny.
Know that they are things that only you can do.
Yeah. And a nanny will not be able to
provide that child. But if it eases out your life,
then why not, Right. I mean, it's OK Nitin and I

(59:53):
decided to do everything on our own.
Like everything for the first seven or eight months.
And we did because we could, Yeah.
But if at any, when we felt like, oh, this is getting too
much, we got someone on board tohelp us out a little bit.
So you just have yourself as parents because we are so like,

(01:00:16):
must be the best child, must come first, must like, whatever,
you know, So but that's changing.
I think a lot of parents are. Very different from how it was
earlier on, yeah. And tell me, Smith, if you could
go back in time, because you've been talking so much about, you

(01:00:36):
know, how you have evolved and if you could meet your pre
parent self and tell her something, what would you say to
her That's. A good question.
I I would actually say like, look after myself better be like

(01:00:59):
get to know the whole like thingof becoming Yeah.
I like what the your body can do.
You know, I'm always kind of being aware of my, you know, my
body or I've exercised all my life, but there's so many things
that I did not know. And it took me 3 years after

(01:01:20):
where I was born figure that out.
So even just like mental health,like I think every mother goes
through some sort of, you know, depression or sadness or like
loss of self or some whatever you want to call it.
Like it's impossible not to feelthat at some point, you know.

(01:01:41):
So just to be, I don't know how you could, how I could have done
that. Yeah, pre baby.
But like, mentally I was fully prepared because it was a
decision. It wasn't something that just
happened. So mentally it was like, fine.
But I think just to have more knowledge, just like I think

(01:02:04):
women should know more about their bodies.
So we come back to that, you know, it all comes back to that,
that I'd also just know that everything will, I mean, things
will never be the same, obviously.
And if you're chasing that sameness, then this is not what
you should do, you know, And that's when a lot of parents

(01:02:25):
tell me all that our child follows our routine or like, oh,
our lives haven't changed. I'm like, but how like it should
change. It should, it should most likely
get really good, like much better.
Like, you know, now you go on a holiday with a 5 year old, the
way they see the world versus how you see the world is like
totally different, right? So like, it's a lovely feeling.

(01:02:48):
So just you don't know what you're getting into, Yeah.
Yeah, and tell me, what do you hope Vera learns by watching the
way you and Nathan live, love and make choices?
I think I just want like, she should kind of just follow her

(01:03:10):
own like, heart and not have to worry about like what people
think or, you know, like learn from us to be yourself, you
know, at whatever cost it may have.
Maybe it's not always going to be like amazing.

(01:03:31):
It's not always going to be, youknow, great.
And to know that, like, I mean, she's had a pretty pushy life,
you know, compared to how we grew up, Like not all of us had
whatever. So she should know.
She should know that things can be difficult and not like not so
easy, but also when it's difficult, you know how to
handle yourself and kind of comeback to some level of stability

(01:03:54):
and that it's OK. So like I'm sure she sees it
like we have good days, we have amazing days, we have bad days,
but ultimately you come back andone of the things that and like
my grandmother, my mother is like having a good sense of
humor, being able to laugh at yourself.
It really like makes the day or the week easier And like don't

(01:04:18):
take it seriously so that she gets when she hangs out like,
you know, with her grandparents,like one set is like always
travelling and exploring. And, you know, so don't keep
yourself close minded, kind of take whatever you learn and use
it in your day-to-day living. Yeah, yeah.

(01:04:39):
And to stay healthy, most important, I think that like,
and that is something that's embarrassed.
Like she should see us both exercising, both, you know,
talking about. And she does now you can always
kind of see that, but on a long term because, yeah, I think we,
we never knew that till we were much older.

(01:05:00):
So now, just so that they know at a younger age, I mean, that's
just the hope. Yeah, yeah.
Before we close Kismet, a big question to you.
If there's one piece of insight or advice you'd like to leave
our listeners with, something that speaks to you and to who
you are, also what you stand for.

(01:05:22):
What would that be? A big question.
I don't know, I think obviously there's a lot of stuff to say,
but like enjoying the process isreally important, you know,

(01:05:44):
living in the now because tomorrow is like so uncertain
anyway. So I feel like whether it's for
yourself or your children, it's like enjoy them for what they
are now. And any parent knows that, like,
it goes so quick, like yesterdaythey were barely like moving on

(01:06:05):
their own. And now they're like, got
attitudes the size of, you know,the planet.
So I think living in the moment is really important because we
are always like, what next? What next?
Like, Oh my God, how can we makehim or her a prodigy in guitar
or like the smartest person on the planet?
Like, no, enjoy them because this kind of moment, even as

(01:06:29):
they get older, right? Everything like they just just
to be present is really like what I would say, well,
otherwise it's just gone before you know it.
And I don't know, somewhere I had read, like you actually get
like, what, 14 summer holidays with your kids, actually 1818

(01:06:52):
summers or something, and you'relike 7 have already gone.
Like by the time she's like in class 7, she's just going to be
like, I don't want to see you catch me later.
So it's really, really importanteven at that point.
Obviously to be present is important, but right now just to

(01:07:12):
be here more. Yeah, right.
And I think that's just a life to enjoy it now because it's so
uncertain. Anything can happen anytime.
And. It passes fast before you
realize it. I mean, it's crazy.
I have, I keep taking my niece'sexample, Jia, because I've seen

(01:07:33):
her grow and I'm like, how is she 15 years old?
How is she like so old? Like where did the time go on?
It was just her who was like thebaby, you know?
And when you see it like so close and then you have it even
closer, then it really feels intense.
So that's what I always tell anynew parents like just enjoy

(01:07:56):
them, like just even like enjoy them and please try and put them
on a sleep, sleep schedule. And I was like, I will only give
you this advice if you want it and otherwise don't ask me.
But really it makes, I don't think any parents should say
that I'm under slept because that really messes up in living

(01:08:17):
in the present because it's veryhard to function and there's
small changes. I had to, I had to throw my
sleep in there. But it's really true.
Like it really it made all the difference for everyone.
And there's so many resources use them.
Like if you have to pay $50.00 for a course by that course,

(01:08:38):
because it is research based, itis done by people who know what
they're doing, who want to help you.
So why not, right. Yeah.
Why? Why should I say like, oh, I can
swing. Bring it.
No. Someone can do it better than
you, you know, Let them do it. Yeah.
If you can't breastfeed, go to alactation expert.
It's fine. Like, it doesn't mean anything.

(01:08:58):
It's totally fine. Yeah.
You know, So just look after yourself, basically.
Also mentally, physically, it's so important.
Otherwise, how are you present for your child?
You cannot be, you know. Yeah.
Yeah. Thank you Kisma, thank you so
much for yesterday. It's been such a joy listening
to your journey, your gentle wisdom and I think your joyful

(01:09:21):
structure and such a such a warmway of being.
I just love listening to you. Thank you.
I hope I didn't ramble too much.No, I don't think so.
In fact, I think you you said a lot of valid things and I'm sure
our listeners are taking away a lot of it.

(01:09:43):
Well, if any of your listeners want some wisdom and sleep, they
can come to me. I'll I'll be sure to put that in
my show notes. Yeah.
And to our listeners, thank you for tuning into another episode
of Parenthood. If Kismat's story resonated with
you, do share this episode with a fellow parent.
Subscribe to the show and leave us a review.

(01:10:06):
Until next time, I'm Neha Garg and this was parenthood.
Take care and bye bye.

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