#43: From Infertility to Inner Strength: Finding Joy in the Chaos, ft. Alisha Purandare

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I know, and it's a small thing Imean.
But it's not. Hello, beautiful people, and
welcome back to Parenthood, the podcast where we hold space for
real stories from real parents. I'm your host, Neha Garg, and

(00:23):
this week I'm speaking with someone whose journey into
motherhood is steeped in grace, intention, resilience, and a lot
of joy. My guest today is Alisha
Purandare, a homemaker, A conscious and playful mother to
two daughters, and someone whosestory I think so many of us will

(00:45):
find both heart heartwarming andgrounding.
Alisha has been with her partnerAbhiraj for over 15 years.
The two of them are best friendsand each other's favorite
people. Her words not mine though I
believe it completely. What lights her up most is being
at home with Abhi and raising their 2 girls.

(01:07):
But this journey for her hasn't been easy.
Alicia has navigated infertilityboth primary and secondary, and
her second daughter was born nearly a decade after her first.
And that's what makes her approach to parenting so rooted
in presence, play, and gratitude.
She doesn't take a single day for granted.

(01:30):
She's the kind of parent who finds joy in the daily mess, who
welcomes questions and deep conversations, and who radiates
a quiet strength that I have come to deeply admire.
Alicia, I'm so glad to have you on Parenthood.
Welcome. Thanks so much, Neha.
I mean, from whatever little I know of you, it's been a joy

(01:52):
connecting and I'm really excited to be here.
Thank. You.
Let's begin with you. If you were to describe yourself
using 3 words or phrases, ones that capture the essence of who
you are, what would they be and why?
You put it right. Joyful is a word I associate
with myself because it's conscious.

(02:13):
You know, Like, I haven't alwaysbeen the most joyful person
because I feel things very deeply.
So I've gone through my teens feeling, you know, weighed down,
bogged down. But I've seen in the last decade
how much of A conscious choice it is, you know, to just find
glimmers in ordinary days. Yeah.
And so I think I've managed to do that quite well.

(02:36):
Playful is again. And right, you know, I'm a big
Enid Blyton fan, so I'm just like always about make believe,
play Harry Potter, wands, all ofit.
Wow. And I don't know the third word
again. Yeah, I think resilient because
we've really been through a lot in our parenting journey, you

(02:57):
know, starting with infertility.I've been very, very ill and in
and out of hospital in this pastdecade.
But we've managed to, you know, navigate it together and also
find happy moments in those times, you know, like in
hospital visits. Yeah.
So yeah. That's lovely, Lovely.
Introduce us to your family. Tell us about ABI.

(03:18):
How did you 2 meet and how How has your relationship grown over
the years? So we met through German.
I was an exchange student in Germany when I was in after my
10th, after my board exam, I went for a year because my
father's in Rotary. So the Rotary Club does these
exchange programs where you livewith a German family and a

(03:39):
German girl comes and stays in yours.
So that's where I actually learned German fluently.
You know, it was like kind of on.
The job because. I stayed with the family.
I've learnt it almost like we learn our mother just by
listening, so not the grammar and not the structure, but I'm
quite fluent. And after that I happened.
My dream was actually to become a journalist.

(04:01):
I wanted to tell the truth and all of that, but life just took
took a different path. You know, we needed the money,
so I started working while I wasstill in college.
OK. I started working as a
translator and I met Abby through German because Abby was
a German teacher and it was still a time when male teachers
were not as common. And there was this young, you

(04:23):
know, curly head boy. So like, he was quite popular,
you know, like his name was known in the German fraternity.
Like we all like kind of had a crush on him.
And then he started this theatreprogram and I only went because
it was him. Like I have no interest in
theatre, but because I spoke good German I got the lead role.

(04:45):
Oh wow. I was the Princess in a fairy
tale. And he was the director.
But I always tease him, like, I pursued him, you know?
Yeah. So I always tease him that this
wouldn't happen. And he always says no, no,
whatever. Because of course, teacher,
student, it's a little awkward. I mean, he was never my teacher.

(05:05):
And he's also like, we also havethis age gap of eight years.
But yeah, that's where we met through German and it's been a
while. So we met in 2009.
Wow, yeah. So it's.
Been this amazing journey and I knew early on that I want to
have kids, you know, like that was never in contention

(05:27):
contention. So I got PCOS before we got
married. OK.
You know, I was diagnosed and itwas a time when it was not
common and rampant. You know, we hadn't heard of
that term. You know, when the doctor said
PCOS, we didn't even understand what it means, right, what the
patients are. And when she said, you know, you
probably should try to have kidsas early on as possible, we were

(05:49):
like laughing. You know, we were not, we were
not even married. We had all these grand plans of
travel and career and you know, year 20s are taken up with these
big ideals of changing the world.
Right, so we. Were not really thinking of
having kids. But then it was a struggle.
I had to get on a lot of medication, you know, I had to
go through like a lot of injections and all of that.

(06:12):
But with Rumi, it happened naturally, OK?
And I was still in my 20s, I was26.
So, you know, it was a good time.
Yeah, but it was not without itscomplications.
Like I was on bed rest for like the last 3-4 months.
Wow, with my head down, you know, but these are the kind of
moments that we've really navigated well, you know, like

(06:33):
ABI would come home in the evening and shampoo my hair Ulta
and they, you know, even though it seems difficult, it was
beautiful. Like I feel like those three
months I couldn't read, I couldn't watch TV because, you
know, my head was lower, but I really connected with what was
happening inside. Like, every day I was writing a
letter to the baby telling her stay in for one more day because

(06:56):
she could come anytime, you know?
So every day was a bonus. Every 100 grams of weight gain
was like a bonus. You know, it was like, oh, we
made it to another week, right? And finally she was overdue.
So it was like really nice both times with my babies, you know,
the pregnancies have been beautiful, but the postpartum

(07:19):
has been extremely hard for me. Right.
Oh, it's it's like I just there are there are a few months where
I hit rock bottom, you know, although, although the second
time I was wiser, so I knew thatit passes the first time.
I couldn't comprehend it. She was so awaited and she was
like perfectly healthy and full term.

(07:39):
So we had needed. So I couldn't understand why the
sadness. Right.
I kind of, and I think even my parents kind of subtly judged me
for it because they said she's here, you know, why are you
crying? Yeah.
What have you got to be upset about?
Yeah, there is nothing. So it was very hard because Abhi

(08:00):
was the only one who got it. And he kind of in those days put
me first, which I think is so important, you know, once the
baby is out. Yeah, you, you.
It's almost like you were just the vehicle that carried it.
Yeah, you know, and every buddy adores the baby.
Yes. And like, very few people really
remember who you were. Yeah.

(08:21):
You know the person that you were, not just a mum, not just
automatically elevated to a mum.Right, so.
I mean, but in those days, you know, he said, oh, whatever you
need, it's not what the baby needs.
You want to step out, we'll go out.
You want to have an ice cream, You know, So we didn't really do
those hard and fast postmortem. Rules.
Yeah, you know, and, and my mum gave me grief.
She said, oh, you're not supposed to do this.

(08:44):
So it was hard. I think it was hard even between
my mother and me. It's not as natural as we think
it is, you know? So that has been hard both
times. It's been different here with
Ruby. We've been alone, which has also
been hard. Going from 3:00 to. 4 after 10
years because you know, we we have like a family WhatsApp

(09:05):
group, the three of us and it's also called triangle in German
dry Eck, you know, dry means thenumber 3.
So we were so perfectly In Sync.Our house, it's so small, it's
perfect for three people like Goldilocks and the three bears.
We have three plates, we have 3 glasses, we have three chairs.

(09:26):
So metaphorically, there wasn't any room for Ruby.
Right. We really had to make space in
our mind. And for me, I still grapple with
that. Like, Abhi is, like, besotted,
you know, He's slipped into thatrole easily.
Rumi also. But for me, it's really hard.
It's been hard. Like, I feel that separation

(09:47):
pangs from my older one a lot. Yeah.
Yeah. She and I, we did everything
together. Yeah, even after school.
So that's been hard. But I think it'll be a while
because it's not even been a year.
Right. Right.
I'm, I'm being patient with myself.
That's the major difference. You know, with the older one, I
would blame myself. I was so obsessed with being the

(10:08):
perfect mum, you know, that if her, if her weight fell, you
know, in a in percentile, if shewasn't eating, I would like
think it's me. You know, I'm not making enough.
I'm not trying hard enough, Right.
And now the second time, I know that parenthood has nothing to
do with trying. Yeah.
I mean, the baby is the baby, you know, they come really, you

(10:30):
know, like the profit through us, not from us.
Yeah, yeah. You know.
So despite our best efforts, they will do their thing and the
best is to meet them where they are.
Yeah. Beautiful and you've spoken so
much about the girls so introduce us to them how old are
both of them What are they like so my.

(10:52):
Older one is Rumi. She's turned 11.
She was already she turned 10 when I got pregnant.
You know, her birthday is in April.
And, you know, I was throwing up.
So we had such a double digit birthday plan, but it didn't
happen. And the little one, it's OK you
can use her name. She's Ruby.

(11:13):
And Rumi actually says Rumi has an M for Mama and Ruby has AB
for Baba. How cute is that?
Yeah. And actually she we gave her a
middle name, which we actually just we use it between us, not
all the time. It's Ruby Ayat.
So Ayat is like miracle. Yes.

(11:33):
Wow, how? Beautiful.
What are they like? I'm sure she is a miracle, but
tell us about their personalities.
So we're like chalk and cheese. Rumi was very textbook.
So if the book says, oh, you know, like you can expect
rolling at four months, rolling over, She did it all.
You know, she slept well. She she really did what the

(11:54):
books. Say.
And she she was very calm as a baby.
Ruby is like a comical, like a little cartoon, only she's never
calm. She's completely loud, feisty.
I think again, you know, I don'tknow if I'm labeling because
first born, second born, yeah, you know, like I think the
second ones get to get away witha lot of.
Mischief. Yeah.

(12:16):
And again with Rumi, you know, she, she, I always say it's the
sun and the moon. Knee radiates outward, right?
You know, like the world is a oyster.
Wherever she goes, she finds people to talk to.
You know, even if we are in a crossword buying books, you
know, she'll engage herself. She'll be busy in the aisles,
you know, talking to people, recommending books to them.

(12:39):
Like a little Ajibai. She's outward.
And Ruby is like our moon. You know, she's like, come to
the three of us like, not many people have seen her.
You know our relatives in Pune are yet to meet her.
Oh. You know, so I feel like that's
the difference. Like 1 is very outward, 1

(12:59):
belongs to the world, and one belongs just to us.
You know, like a little. Pearl How beautiful.
I love how poetic you are in your expressions.
Alicia It's it's just such a joyto, you know, hear you talk
about your family and your girls.
Tell me, how would you describe the energy or rhythm in your

(13:20):
house? What make your you know what
makes your family life feel uniquely yours?
The. Fact that all of us are
consciously grateful to be with each other you know like even
for me in my rebellious teenage years, you know I wanted to get

(13:40):
out of home, you know but it's like all of us find a lot of
solace in being with each other to the point that, you know we
can if like a friend makes plansor somebody drops and we are
almost we almost find it intrusive.
We've created like this very cohesive unit.
They're just three of us and nowfour of us.

(14:01):
Yeah. You know the TV playing Modern
Family and you know Rumi doing her Harry Potter Potter more
quizzes. It's just that's enough and
that's the case for all of us I mean I think we worked.
Abby and I had to work consciously, but now it's it's
seamlessly that we just belong and fit like a like a jigsaw

(14:23):
and. And tell me, where are you in
your life right now? What does a regular day look
like for you as a, you know, you've used that word as a
homemaker. That's a big, big
responsibility. And a full time parent, Yeah.
So to be very honest, Neha, I'vebeen really struggling in this

(14:44):
phase, you know, because what happened with secondary
infertility was that after yearsof trying, you know, especially
as Rumi grew, you know, she became 6:00 and 7:00 and 8:00.
And then slowly this idea of a second child started to feel
like it wasn't going to happen, you know, and that is when I
finally turned my attention to other things.

(15:05):
You know, all these years, I wasthinking, you know, like, let
the let both kids grow and then I will get back to finding
meaning in my job or other things, you know?
But that didn't happen. So finally, when we had this big
city move to Bangalore, you know, I started to ask, OK, now
that there's no baby, you know, now that that's not happening

(15:26):
for you, what next? And then I started to explore
writing, you know, like, I love books.
I love literature. So I did a publishing course.
I, in fact, started working again because German doesn't
spark joy for me like it does for Abhi.
It's just something that happened to me, you know, like
I'm fluent at, I'm good at so I can get a job.

(15:46):
But for me, it took actually a very long time to understand
what makes me happy. And I think that is words that
is writing, having a book club, you know, asking people what are
you reading? Yeah.
And then when those things happen, I got pregnant.
So again again, for me it feels like a little bit like I have to

(16:08):
start from scratch. Right.
Right. You know, it feels like, oh, I
had this book idea. I was getting close to
materializing it and now I have no mind space to, you know,
think of books. Yeah.
So it's been a very hard phase. I keep telling Abhi that I'm not
finding meaning. It's not that I don't enjoy
parenting Ruby, you know, but myday doesn't feel like it has

(16:31):
meaning. Yeah.
But of course, we know, like that there is value in, you
know, feeding your baby. I mean, that is that you can't
quantify it. I understand that cognitively.
Yeah. But in this phase now, like the
day is not feeling that I did something.
Yeah, that I've done something, you know, So it basically just

(16:54):
follows the rhythm of the baby. You know, she sleeps, she wakes.
What should we which solid should we introduce her to?
Yeah. You know, like, what does she
need next? She needs to go for a walk, you
know, So I'm doing all of it. But it's not the same as it was
when I became a first time mom, because all of it was thrilling.
Yes, you know, like the first bite of carrot puree that baby

(17:16):
ate. We clap, you know.
Yeah. I understand that in a way.
I don't know if it's unfair to the little one that I'm not
feeling like that. Yeah, you know, so.
And I'm not one to force myself,you know, I will not expect
myself to feel otherwise. So I'm not pushing myself to
snap out of it. I'm like, it's OK.

(17:36):
Yeah. I now I've got the confidence
that I'm a good mum, even if I do the bare minimum.
In the first time, there was something to prove.
Yes. You know, I had to buy the best
books. I had to do certain things to
feel like a good mum. And now the second time, it's
OK. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm a little relaxed but
honestly I'm struggling to find myself again.

(17:57):
Yeah, how, how I love it. You know, how vulnerably and
very simply you've said it. So many of us feel this way, but
so many of us struggle to put itin words, even acknowledge it to
ourselves that, you know, like I'm going through something like
this. Yeah, and.
And what I love the most, like it's not to say that, you know,

(18:21):
you are putting a carpet over itand you're saying, oh, I'm still
joyful. But within the challenges also
you're, you continue to find meaning, you know, and joy and
those, as you rightly termed them, the glimmers.
And this is very inspiring. As as a highly sensitive person

(18:44):
now I've understood that, you know, when you go through like
mentally, when you're struggling, when you're hitting
rock bottom, like the only way out is to literally hyper focus
on the present, you know. So sometimes it's as small as,
you know, the golden colour of Ruby's hair or a little tooth.
You know, sometimes when I'm losing the plot and when I'm

(19:05):
feeling like time has stood still, you know, like even
yesterday, I don't know what dayof the week it is.
I'm doing the same, same things.I see, I see the little white
square and it takes me through. The day, yeah, You know.
Or just like we have a lemon tree in the balcony.
OK, so it's in a pot. So we have no hopes of, you

(19:27):
know, a lot of lemons. So great, it's just there.
But suddenly on a branch 4 lemons came.
You know 3. Big ones and then the Chotu ones
for Ruby. So that lit us up.
I mean, you know, this is not highly exciting.
This is not like hey, stop the press kind of things, but it
just, it makes our day. So I've just learned that that

(19:49):
because what else do I have? I have given birth.
It was my choice. And you know, like it is a big
responsibility. It is something I prayed for.
You know, I was crying. I'm not usually superstitious,
you know, but I was just doing everything.
In fact, I got a nose piercing also because I read somewhere
that, you know, like that is thefertility point in acupuncture

(20:12):
or whatever your Veda, I don't know.
So I just got it done, you know,not, not out of beauty or
anything. Yes, I anything I could and
sometimes it's about that. We don't realize that the life
we prayed for is here. Yeah.
You know when I'm feeling dismaland when I'm telling abhinaya

(20:33):
it's I prayed for this boredom. You know, I was down on my knees
in every temple, in every mosque, saying I just want to
have a baby. Oh yeah.
I just tried to keep that insidethat, you know, like this is
what we worked for. Yeah.
And you're talking about it, youknow, makes me curious about

(20:55):
your infertility journey. Would you, would you like to
talk to us about that? The struggles you went through,
the emotions, the learnings and the long wait?
Of course. Yeah.
So initially because I had PCOS,you know, we were doing like we
had to monitor ovulation quite diligently because that's one of
the things about PCOS that you might not ovulate.

(21:16):
You miss a period, you know, So it's actually quite boring.
There's this card, you know, like a library card with which
you go to the doctor every day. They write, oh, you know, ovary
this side left ovary, you know, like every day.
So that it gets boring because. Every day you have to get.
Yeah, when it comes close, like from day 10 then onwards,

(21:38):
because then you might ovulate any time and miss that window,
right? And sometimes they also have to
give you an injection to kind ofinduce ovulation, right?
You have to time it very right. So that is like really boring.
I mean, people, even infertilitytreatment is a privilege, you
know, the kind of money we put into it and the kind of time,

(22:01):
you know. And that is something, again,
that Abby and I made very happy.Like we would play games on the
back of the card, you know, name, place, animal thing.
We had nicknames for all the nurses.
So it's just that even in adverse moments, you can find
that. So there were times where we
were at the ultrasound like every day for a week and

(22:25):
monitoring all of that. And that is just the basics.
Once you begin treatment, the next step is IUI, where it's not
as invasive as IVF, where they will take your partner's sample
and, you know, they will inject you, I mean, vaginally like a
Pap smear with it or, you know, when you ovulate.
So that is like, kind of kind oflike the first line of

(22:46):
treatment. Those also didn't work.
And, you know, like with Rumi, it was classic ROM com.
You know, when people take a break and relax, it happens.
Yeah. Because we said, you know, like,
it's taking a toll. You know, we're getting
exhausted. Let's just.
And that, you know, Abhi said that.
He said it's not happening. But to me, this life is enough.

(23:07):
You know, we have fun. You know, we are connected.
I can't see you cry. So let's just like, have fun.
And for us, with a limited means, fun was Lonavala.
You know, we went to like this very iconic old resort in
Lonavala Dukes. And then by then I was pregnant
naturally. Oh wow.
Me, that was the case. Then the second time it was

(23:28):
harder, you know, with advancingage, even for ABI.
Like the male factor actually doesn't matter that much, which
is so unfair. You know, like men can be 60 and
70 and still some fathers. But that time I also, we went
through IVF, which was actually such a difficult decision
because we didn't have that kindof money.
We, we both were teaching German.

(23:50):
You know, we didn't really make enough to pay those several
lakhs. You know, sometimes injections
go up to 40K50K, the ones you totake daily.
The it's it's insane. It's about 3,00,000 you, you can
reckon with monthly for one cycle, right?
Yeah. But we, I kind of pushed Abhi
into it at that time. This is something I still feel

(24:12):
guilty about and you know, because I was a homemaker.
So I always feel guilty, you know, when we kind of use up our
funds. But I was very confident because
the problem of ovulation completely gets bypassed.
Yes. In IVF.
So I thought yeah, of course then my age is good, but those
cycles also didn't work and thatwas like a real low spot because

(24:33):
we had spent the money I I thought oh, that's like kind of
like a last resort. Yeah, yeah.
We've also always spoken about adoption, you know, Abhi is was
very for it, you know, but for me, I wasn't confident of, you
know, how it would feel with onebiological child.

(24:53):
Yeah, I know people say that it's different, but I also
thought I might err on the side of caution.
You know, I might have a bias because I feel like, you know,
we've adopted a child and I, I follow, I'm on that page.
I follow a lot of mums who have,you know, adopted the second or
third child and there's no difference.
You know, they're hard babies. And there's also a good system

(25:17):
in place. Yeah.
I mean, there's a lot of counselling.
Yeah. You know, it's not just
overnight. So we, I had actually registered
on the Kara page and the waitingtime is also long, 3 or 4 years.
And again, for, for that, for that step, we didn't have the
kind of funds, you know, you need to show certain deposits,
you need to show a certain bank balance, which actually we've

(25:39):
never enjoyed as teachers. So that didn't happen.
And Bangalore marked the shift because Rumi turned 8 or like
almost 9. And then this opportunity came.
You know, this corporate job, like this is the first time
that, you know, we are in this kind of corporate setup which
has benefits, which has insurance, which, you know, it's

(26:02):
really, I can see why people never get out of it.
So, you know, many people quit their corporate jobs and, you
know, do their follow their passion.
For us, it's been the other way around, right?
We took up, we took up this opportunity.
We took this leap of faith and came to this new city where we
don't know anybody. And like I said, we had moved

(26:23):
on. We found, like, a very beautiful
life here. I started a book club in the
community. I got to do the things that I've
always wanted to do, you know, work with books, books and
publishing. And then again, it happened
naturally at 37, you know, whichis, like, quite advanced.
Yeah. And with that advanced stage, we

(26:44):
faced the risk of, you know, Down syndrome.
Yeah. Of genetic anomalies.
So that was also a rough patch because we were not ready to
give up the baby, so to say, youknow, to take a call like that.
Yeah. But I, I also thought, how would
Rumi's life be, you know, as an older sibling, you know, she's

(27:06):
saddled with the responsibility of a sibling that might not, you
know, we might need lifelong care.
Yes. So those were quite bleak.
Weeks for us, but it all really turned out well by God's grace.
Life taking care of us again. Yeah, how beautiful.
How beautiful. And tell me about your village,

(27:29):
Alicia. You said, you mentioned it
briefly, that while you were in Pune, you had a huge tribe of
people around you. And now in Bangalore, you're
kind of on your own. So what has been that shift
like? And tell us about it both times.
So we've grown up in the same 5 kilometer radius.

(27:52):
Like I have never lived out of Pune, school, college, even ABI,
you know, So we've grown up in avery typical like in the heart
of Pune, both of us school, college.
So our whole life is basically there, school friends, college
friends, you know, both sets of parents, both sets of maternal
and paternal relatives. Wow.

(28:13):
So it's. A lot of people, right?
All your cousins and all of it. So for Rumi, there were just
always five hands, you know, like my mom would pick her up on
weekends, take her for a stay over.
So Abby and I would also kind ofget that time off.
Yeah. We also like lived with and then
very close to Abbye family. Right, so.

(28:34):
Rumi is adored by her Kaka Kaku.I mean, they are like parents.
You know, she just, in fact, shedoesn't want to come to us as a
baby. She would cry after 10 days if
we picked her up, you know? Yeah, from a grandparent.
So it's, that was a gift. But with that is also the
disadvantage that, you know, youcan't quite parent the way you

(28:55):
want to, right? There's always somebody who's
advising you, who's, you know, telling you to try another.
Way. Yeah, you know, with.
I'm completely free. I take the call.
So that's also very liberating as a parent where you get to
decide everything. Yeah, because my in laws are

(29:17):
wonderful. I'm also close to my parents.
But there will be these differences.
There will be, you know, like a lot of millennials say we are
cycle Breakers. Yes.
You know, we are doing things differently, you know, like,
respectful parenting. Yeah.
Where, you know, even, like now with Ruby, we haven't pierced
her years yet because we are really thinking about it.

(29:39):
Yeah. You know, is this something a
baby wants? You know, like, what does it
mean? Can we do it later?
Small things. Yeah.
So that's the advantage of completely being on my own, but
it's very, very isolating. There is this Marathi word
called kauthuk, which means praise.
You know, though I feel like a baby in a family invites and

(29:59):
needs a lot of kauthu. You know when a baby like just
stand and everybody claps and you know when the baby eats and
everybody adores the baby? Yeah.
You know, there's nobody like Ruby does something outstanding
and I look around and there's nobody to share it with.
Yeah. I mean, we have good friends

(30:21):
here and you know, like moving to Bangalore has kind of been
an, an upward life for us. You know, it's a very elite
community, you know, with the pool and with it's all very
fancy. Like there are a lot of good
people. That's been the difference
because in Pune, we kind of alsoknew the same kind of people,
maybe from the same cultural, religious background even.

(30:44):
Yeah. So this diversity that Rumi gets
that, oh, like, we are Maharashtrian.
But now she celebrates Onam and Golu, you know, and she's
learning all these different festivals that she didn't have a
chance to, which I feel is so important for children, Right.
Especially where the world is headed now.
Yeah. That they know that it's OK that
people are different than us. Yeah, yeah.

(31:06):
So that's been good. But like I said, it's hard.
Yeah. Most days.
Most days I'm just, I look forward to bedtime, 8:00 where,
you know, I can just get in, getunder the covers.
It does it. It is hard, Yeah.
And and like, you know, I am, I'm sorry to prod more on this,
but I'm just very interested to know, do you in this in this

(31:30):
hard phase, do you ever feel invisible or like parts of you
go unseen? And how do you deal with these
feelings? That's totally there, you know,
like I said, the the invisible load that we carry that mothers
do, you know, even if like Abby is like a fantastic partner,
like I'm speaking to you and I'malready thinking he Ruby will

(31:53):
wake up and lunch has to be this.
So, you know, although I've madeit, it's ready in the fridge.
Oh, it'll have to be taken out heated in a double, you know,
like tiny, tiny things. Like I'm sitting in the living
room and I'm noticing, Oh, Rumi had that form picnic form to be
signed. So I don't know.
I think it's a sad conditioning that women instinctively do this

(32:13):
more. Yeah.
You know, like you said, your husband is great and Abhi is
like fantastic. You know, like he does
everything that can be expected.But even then, the minor things
that I remember. So.
I dwell on this a lot because I don't want to raise girls like
that. Yeah, so.
I wonder if it's a gender thing.Yeah, like I'm always noticing.

(32:36):
I'm always one step ahead and I do get lost.
But I found a very good trick for holding onto the core
essence and that is to remember what you loved in even in
childhood, even purani cheesy and to just bring that into your
lifestyle. You know, like, for example,
like a food that I used to love that I don't eat anymore.

(32:57):
Like can I have more of it? Or like I told you, I used to
love Enid Blightens, you know, like she fired up my
imagination. I read it and I went crazy.
Oh my God, caves and islands. So I still collect those, you
know, but now I'm collecting like, you know, the 1st edition
or if I can find a copy that's signed by her.

(33:18):
So that is a way in which I remember who I once was before
the girls were here, or even. Before Abhi was here, Yeah,
yeah, yeah. So if your partner can support
you, because I can hear Abhi encourages me, you know, he's
like, oh, buy another EB and I'mlike, no, no, I won't.
But then I do so this is a book I recommend to everybody like I

(33:41):
recommend it with my life. The Artist's Way by Julia
Cameron. Yes.
That changed my life because that has these exercises.
It's a basically an A12 week course in creativity, right?
So firstly, that's what blew my mind, that all of us are
creative. I grew up not believing that.
I thought I'm like a bookish, nerdy type.

(34:02):
And then there were creative types, you know, who looked a
little different, who wore like,I don't know, vibrant clothes,
You know, in college there was acreative type, yes, you know,
the silver wearing girl. Yes.
So I was I wasn't one of those. But when she said key, everybody
likes to do something creative, even if it's drawing a picture,

(34:24):
singing, you know, our primal instincts are very creative.
Yes, it. Was like radical for me.
And then I worked with that bookand this this childhood exercise
was in that book. As a 5 year old, you know you
probably love purple and now youjust don't wear anything.
Purple. You know, like.
Children are so free. So that's some, those are things

(34:44):
that little things that I tried to do that monthly I will order
an Enid blight in, you know, so it's just those little reminders
of who I used to be. How beautiful, how beautiful.
And you know in all of this, what is your favorite way of
reconnecting with yourself after, especially, say, after a

(35:05):
chaotic parenting day you've had?
Buying like I think, I think mums get a lot of pleasure from
window shopping. I've never been a shopper
honestly, like all my life, I'm quite minimalistic.
My tastes are also very minimal.But there's like a lot of
vicarious pleasure in just looking up stuff, you know, and

(35:27):
of course like Amazon and this whole plethora of online option
has completely spoiled us. You know, we are constantly
swiping on a phone, but it's it's really fun to do that.
Think of the next book I'll buy.Like for example, I was looking
forward to Amrita Mahalis next book because I really love Milk
teeth. Yes.
So then I was waiting in anticipation for the release,

(35:48):
you know? Yeah, it's.
Like that, it's mostly to do with books.
Secondly, looking at pictures ofthe babies, you know, of the
goods because that's that's always grounding.
Like Rumi will come home, be disorganized and we'll yell at
her and, you know, we'll expect her to do her homework.
And then I look at a picture of wallpaper that pops up and I

(36:10):
think, yeah, that is the baby she once was.
Yeah. You know, like Toothless
couldn't pronounce words correctly.
And that always reminds me to begentler, even if, you know, they
frustrated me. Yeah.
And just a while ago they were these.
You know, even Ruby. Ruby.
'S only eight months old, but I just think two months old, you

(36:30):
know, she was this little, little thing.
Is that something you do, like all moms do, you know, looking
like an old? Yeah.
You know, this is something I am, I think I am not that
emotional. I would say I thought I was very
emotional, but I'm married to a very, very emotional person.
You know, he watches his old videos like my husband will

(36:54):
watch my sons old videos and he's like, you know, we did
everything we could. We he's like, I don't regret not
spending enough time with my son.
I spent all the time like for the last two years, all we have
done is spend time with our son.All you know, both of us, we

(37:14):
have just been so invested. And he says that I still miss
that little hymn, and I still, you know, want to hold on to him
and things like that. And I'm like, when did I marry a
poet? I agree.
I agree. Abhi is very like that.
You know, he keeps asking me, did we do enough?

(37:35):
And I'm like, we did what we could.
Yeah. You know, I always like, I'm
also a little prosaic like that,you know, he's the one who will
take up these reels and he stilllook at that.
I'm like, I keep telling him to you, you know, a few years
later, look back at today. Yeah, yeah, So yeah, yeah.

(37:56):
And it's, it's crazy how men, you know, I, I just, I mean, of
course it's fun to, you know, bash them while they're doing
this. But so it's so heartwarming.
And I'm like, Oh my God, I'm married to such a softy and you
know. He.
He. Feels like that.
It's so true. And I, you know, like more and

(38:16):
more partners are becoming like that.
But I'm sad that these things are still novelty.
Like, I'm sad that, you know, mydomestic helps come and they are
like, bhaiya kitna karthe because why isn't everybody?
You're right. Like I'm wondering about the
women whose partners don't pull their weight like this.
Like what the hell must they be doing?
Yes, yes. And I have people who are very,

(38:39):
you know, like even in these equal partnerships, so to say,
there are people who are just mothers are quitting their jobs
and sitting at home. And, you know, it's fine.
I understand that sometimes it'sthe it's the economic decision
rather than a patriarchal decision because the man is

(39:00):
earning more and it's a more. So all of that you do that.
But even with that, like I see my husband pulling his weight
and even like he'll go out for ameeting and when he comes back
I'm like haha now you deal with it.
Just take this parcel like offload, yeah.
And. In other families, it doesn't

(39:23):
happen that way, yeah. It's still like, you know, if
you still meet with other couples and all, and I know that
it's increasing, yes, you know, like I see, like if I look down
at the park, you know, like dad's baby wearing.
The. Baby and taking them for a walk.
But there's also this certain pat on the back.
Yes. You know, for them that oh look,

(39:44):
you know, like now I took the baby for two hours.
So two hours Matlab 2 out of 2424.
Like, come on. This.
Is like what I tell sadly, of course, domestic health, their
situation is different, you know, like even my parents, I, I
don't know if your family does it.

(40:05):
Like everybody feels like we're so lucky.
Lucky. That we should be drowning in
gratitude? Yes, you know, like every time
my parents visit and Abby's likeemptying the trash or doing
something mundane and they're like.
Wow. Changing the diaper, it's like,
oh wow, you're so lucky. You're so.
I mean, I am lucky, I know that.Yet I should not be lucky.

(40:28):
It should. It's sad, yeah.
Sad if you know other men. And like, I think for you, it
must be like when you're raisinga boy that how can you raise a
boy where it's matter of fact, yes.
In fact, you know when you said that when you are, you are very
conscious of that invisible load.
It should not get passed on to the girls.

(40:48):
I am. I'm doing the reverse.
I'm very conscious of the invisible load and I'm ensuring
that it gets passed on to my boy.
He notices and he's very little.He's just two years old, but
he's starting to notice things and I'm it just made makes my

(41:09):
heart, you know, go so big and so full because he'll do this
that, you know, little, little things, you know, even things
like it might not be a chore related things, but just having
it in his conscious mind. Like, you know, the other day,
just just yesterday or day before yesterday, he brought out
a, we have a little chairs for him.

(41:31):
So he brought out one of the bigger chairs from the little
lot and in the room first thing in the morning.
And I'm like, I was, you know, quite like, we have to get ready
for school and all of that. Why have you brought it here?
He's like Mama and I'm like, OK.He's just two years old, and

(41:59):
he's constructed this whole sentence and he's made-up this
complicated, complex thought of chain of thought in his mind,
and he's saying that aloud. He puts his clothes in his
laundry basket. He puts his plates in the sink,
You know, things like that he's doing.
And again, like, you know, as with Indian families, yeah,

(42:23):
yeah. My in laws, my my family, my
parents, they are like, you know, clapping that.
Oh my God. Yeah, yeah.
I'm like please don't clap. Yeah, yeah.
He's not doing anyone a favor. It's his.
It's his work. Let him do it.
And I tell him that, you know, if you don't do it, who will do

(42:43):
it? If you don't put it up, if you
don't pick it up, who will do it?
So I am very consciously passingon that invisible load.
I want him to be aware of that. And I'm so glad you put it up,
you know, because put it out like this that we need to raise
girls who are not conditioned into believing that invisible

(43:06):
loads is theirs to. Carry I mean, I don't know like
because I have two girls like I don't know if it girl boy hote,
you know or if it's siblings, you know.
Key instinctively Kya hota you tell the girl Kipani love.
Yes. You know, if her grandparents
are here, yes. So I was kind of mentally
thinking, yeah, if we have a boy, you know, that is one

(43:27):
thing. Yes.
You know, so far, like, I'm OK to be a little loose on the
chores, yes. Like, I know it's a Montessori,
A Montessori philosophy. It's important.
It grounds kids. But I'm like, OK, you grow up
and you do it. You do it.
You have a lifetime and you knowso.
I don't it's OK. Yeah.
Grew up fine without doing. You know, so like I say, oh,

(43:50):
cooking is a life skill. You know, you, it's cooking that
it's good if you do it well, youknow, because there's only so
much satisfaction that outside food gives you, right?
You know, so sometimes you crave, oh, like, oh, you know,
like my daddy used to make you crave it.
And it's good to know it's I think it's a good skill.
But otherwise I'm chilled. If Rumi's leaving her clothes
about, it's OK, she's 11. Yeah.

(44:13):
She will, Yeah. You know, as long as, like,
there are boundaries, some boundaries in place.
Your living room is getting cluttered.
You have no place on the couch. But, you know, like, Abby is a
little more like, get organized.I'm like PK, you know, like,
I'm. I try to hold on to her baby
parts more. Right.
You know that oh, she's only 10,as opposed to oh, she's already

(44:33):
10 and 11. You think puberty has to learn?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and tell me, Alicia, that
you know, you have described yourself as a playful and joyful
and conscious parent. Tell us more about what that
means for you. Really getting on their level,

(44:56):
you know, like if if the baby like just suddenly is walking
and splats on the floor. I mean, I don't find it
appalling or I don't find it keyor clothes or yeah, honey.
But now what is the difference to them?
They found a rock and just bent.Over, you know, if.
You have that luxury, which I know a lot of us don't.
Very often we are getting from point A to point B.

(45:17):
So if you're walking and you're holding your kids hand and
suddenly splat, they sit down, you are getting delayed.
You know which of course I am not working.
I can't imagine the kind of planning that working moms have
to do right like 637 thirty times and rhythms mean.
But if you have the luxury like I will, I will get right down
with you. Sit in the puddle, like I don't

(45:39):
have a thing. And, you know, like wiping your
paint, wiping your food, food hands on you.
Like I will sit right down. We can sit for two hours and
just, you know, stir a stick through a puddle.
Yeah. So I'm completely OK with that.
But while. But I understand that that is a
luxury, right? I can do it now because I am
home, you know, because I can get home and wash those clothes.

(46:03):
Like I said, if both parents areworking, that's not something
you can do. So that is what I mean by
playful like because kids are completely in the present.
Yeah. You know, like, go like a fallen
leaf will catch their fancy and probably like 20 minutes will go
by and 20 minutes that we often don't have.
Yeah, we're dropping them to a class.

(46:24):
We need to get home because likeyou said, we're thinking ahead.
You know, we need to get home. So that dinner heat, Karna Head,
you're thinking ahead. Yeah, you know.
But if you have the luxury to slow down, it's just being child
LED in that way, right? You know, which doesn't require,
like, a fancy wooden toy. It's just OK you're scribbling

(46:44):
on the floor probably, you know,yape matkaru and rentals, you
know, like, we're constantly worried about walls, about
things. But if you can, why not?
They don't know the difference. Yeah.
Like for me, you know, we gave her one wall and we said do
that. You know that balcony that can
be your canvas? We can paint it over.
Right, right. How beautiful and you know, have

(47:09):
you found that has parenting changed who you are
fundamentally? Like are are there parts of your
pre parent self that you miss? One very big difference, and in
a negative way, has been my level of fearfulness.
You know, I was instinctively quite fearless, like I said,
like I went to Germany at 15 alone.

(47:31):
This was a time before laptops, before cell phones, you know.
I didn't hear my parents voice for a whole.
Year. Wow, I didn't have the luxury of
calling them, you know, like international calls were
expensive khali air meelta. So you would like print out
photos then post them? They would see them like a month
later and then reply was ke baad.
Yeah. So I was not afraid.

(47:53):
With Rumi, I'm constantly afraid, you know, like I find
myself panicking or like she'll fall, you know, or like near the
pool. So I've become, I recognize it,
you know, I recognize it that I've become fearful.
I need not be. But probably like they are so
precious that I've become over cautious, you know?

(48:14):
Yeah, that like, for example, like to me it seems a big deal
to send her on a school trip. I'm like 5 days.
Yeah, when you think about, I went, you know, yeah, at 10 or
whatever. But I'm like, no, no.
Like better to keep her at home.So I don't like that.
I've definitely become more afraid.
And on the other hand, whatever is happening in the world gives
us enough reason to be. Right.

(48:36):
Everyday, you know, like there is like this bad touch in lifts
and even in all these plush communities we are hearing
horror stories. Right.
So that is definitely true. Like we can say that we grew up
in a world that felt safer, right?
You know, like our parents wouldsend us Ki hajjar bread.
Lao, I've done that. Yeah, OK on the corner and it's

(48:57):
been safe. Like I've not had untoward.
I mean, all girls have had theirme too moments, sadly, but I've
not had too many untoward experiences through me
especially. I'm constantly worried for her
safety, for her well-being, you know, whether to send her out or
not. So I don't know if this is
something to change, but my level of fear has changed.

(49:18):
Like I'm afraid now. And I wasn't as a as before I
became a parent, I wouldn't think of myself as somebody
who's afraid. You know, and, and tell us about
now. I want to know, you know,
there's, I'm sure there must be so many small moments, maybe a
sentence your child has said or a look or something silly that

(49:41):
has stayed with your shaped you in some way.
I have these, I have put these videos on Instagram Also, Rumi
was quite articulate, you know, so there are times where she
actually said key Mama, don't use your phone, you know, don't
pull your phone out, which actually makes me think like how
hungry we are to document that we are not right there, right?

(50:05):
You know, it's first women. I don't want to miss it.
I don't want to miss it. So you know, I'm looking through
my phone, but I'm not looking through my real eyes.
Yes, yeah. You know.
And then there are, of course these little cute words like
Rumi always mixes syllabus. So like a restaurant called
Gajali. She's in Jagali, you know she'll
make 2 syllabus. Yeah, she still does that

(50:26):
sometimes, and I'm in no hurry to correct her.
You know, like, I know people jump in, you don't want your kid
to be made fun of, so you correct pronunciation.
But I'm like she even letters she used to mirror how she
writes AB and B. You know.
Like a lot of do that and I now again we are very quick with
labels you know like and on the spectrum now we have tests.

(50:50):
Yes. But I didn't bother because
you're not going to become an adult and not know it.
I mean, in cases where it's, youknow, where there's no
diagnosis, right? So.
Like, it's OK, Like I let her have those little, little
mistakes, you know? But we find she still kabhi
Kabhi. She writes Hawaii Ulta, you
know? But now it's become more of a

(51:11):
style thing, more of a roomy thing.
I find that very endearing. And and you know, OK, why go
that back? But let's just talk about this
week. Has there been a small moment
from this week that unexpectedlyfilled you with joy?

(51:33):
There were big moments actually,like we got a car.
I mean, this is not like an iconic moment for most people.
But like I said, our finances, you know, it's just they we've
been borderline. We've always been happy, but
there hasn't been like a bang balance, you know?
Yeah. So it's like, I know what a
momentous achievement it is. Yeah.
To even get a new car. You know, we like really the

(51:56):
time we fit ACS at home. We were, like, clapping
excitedly, you know, like, of course, our middle class
backgrounds are like that. It was not common.
Yeah. But our enthusiasm for these
mundane things that has infectedthe kids, like Rumi finds it
thrilling. Ecia.
So I think we got a car last week and that what happened is

(52:20):
we got a very special car number, you know, like now
there's numerology and all, you know, people pay extra and get
the digits they want, which we didn't do.
But the number that came, you know, was Rumye birth here.
Oh wow, synchronous. It felt so sweet, you know?
Yeah. Like that's something we'll
always remember when the person you know opened and gave us the

(52:42):
plate and we said, Oh my God. Very, very cute divine moment.
Yes, yes, I'm, I'm so like nobody would think that you
didn't pay for it, you know? Yeah.
Yeah, I know. And it's a small thing, I mean,
but it's not exactly. I think it's an Albert Einstein

(53:08):
quote. Either nothing means anything or
everything means something. It's up to you.
You know either magic is in everything or then it doesn't.
Exist, right, Right. And and tell me, Alicia, what is
something about your children that you never want to forget?

(53:31):
How much they love us, you know,it's like such a responsibility,
you know, like sometimes I say, I give a say a casual opinion,
but for Humi, like that is like the word of God, like Mama has
said it. And I know there will come a
time where you know, like I won't be the most important
person. But when you think about it, how

(53:52):
primal, like Ruby is a baby, butyou know, she still pulls her
hands to her cheeks and she's, she needs us, you know?
And that is such a responsibility that we've been
entrusted with that there is this tiny human who thinks you
are perfect. And here you are, you know,
looking in the mirror, you know,touching your balls of fat and

(54:14):
saying ye NI yaar pimple lagya passe NI hai.
And there is this person who needs nothing but your smile and
your attention, like I'm happy and the girls are happy.
Like, I only have to look at Ruby.
And, you know, she beams. You're happy with so little.

(54:35):
Yeah. And we think, you know, we want
to. And of course, we need to plan
ahead. We think, oh, they're going to
go to college. How can we afford it?
We are struggling to make place for them right at the base of
it. All they want is, you know,
Baba, you sit with me, do Sudokuwith me, play chess with me, you
know, and I find it touching howlittle they need.

(54:57):
Yeah. And how much of A responsibility
it is for me that all my girls want is for me to be happy.
Wow. That is how much care I have to
take of myself. You know, I don't exercise.
I'm a complete couch potato. So in those moments, I think if
this is what my girls want, theywant a healthy.
Mum, yeah. You know, or they want me to be

(55:19):
in a good mood. So if I'm buying that dress or
say if I'm going out for lunch, I don't need to feel guilty
because I owe it to them to be spirited.
Yes, you know. Yeah.
To give them the best of myself.Yeah, yeah.
And And tell me, Alicia, if you had to pick one value, just one
of the many things that you hopeyour children will carry with

(55:43):
them into adulthood, what would that be?
Cliched and story. Book like, but I really think
kindness, I mean, we really cherish that and we see the
difference, you know, because it's in the small things.
It's like in a group of preteenswho are, you know, laughing at a
girl and running away from her. I have been that girl and I know

(56:05):
how those things stay with you for life.
Yeah, you know, And then when Rumi?
Refuses to do. It, you know, even at the cost
of getting left. Out I I.
See that that makes a difference, you know, So I just
think the. World needs more of.
This, I mean, we need more of this and I, I say it a lot, but
I know I don't practice it to myself.

(56:27):
You know, I might be kind to Roomie.
I might be kind to my. Neighbors.
But you know, my inner voice is not kind to me.
You know when I look in the mirror and when I say, oh,
you've not done this, you've still not done this.
When that comparison trap sets in, You know, when I'm on insta
all day long, just looking at what the amazing people have
achieved by the time they were 38 and I feel I'm 38.
And what does that count for? Yeah, I have nothing.

(56:50):
I sometimes feel like I have nothing.
To show for it. So I think if I can be kinder to
myself, you know, I don't want Ruby to speak to herself like
that. I don't want Ruby to speak to
herself like that, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How beautiful. I I don't want this.
Conversation to stop, but we allhave time constraints, invisible

(57:10):
and visible labour to take care of.
So my last question to you for today, Alicia, what is that one
piece of wisdom or advice or insight that you would like to
share or pass on to others navigating infertility,
parenting, life? What would that be?

(57:32):
Just. Meeting life where it is, you
know, the more we accept, like with my infertility, it's been
like that. The minute I could accept all of
it and say it is what it is, it's not because I'm not trying
hard enough. It is what it is.
It happened. So, you know, while I know it's
not that simplistic for everyone, even the children,
meeting them where they are. Yeah, it is what it is.

(57:56):
If your child's not walking by earlier, like 10 years ago, I
would have been very paranoid, Abita, you know, like Ruby
doesn't do some things, you know.
Oh, she's not crawling yet. Oh, she's not.
It is what it is. She is not sleeping.
This is the baby we've been given, you know, and I would say
that to all. Parents that.
Yeah, OK. It's like some cellular biology

(58:18):
of my body, you know, of my partner.
But we have not in that sense created them.
Yeah, You know, it's come through US.
Like especially. With the second baby, I see the
timing, you know, the divine timing.
Why didn't it happen all these years ago?
Yeah, why now? So she has come with a plan and
a destiny of her own. Yeah.

(58:39):
We just are like. Witnesses and.
Facilitators, right? Yeah.
How? How insightful is that I, you
know. I, I am, I am in awe of how
gracefully and how joyfully you talk about these things.
And you have kind of accepted, I'm sure it looks very easy, but

(59:05):
I'm sure a lot of work goes intoit day after day because it's
not, it doesn't just come naturally.
It takes a lot of practice. But I'm just so glad that you
are able to do this even with so-called challenges and.
You know, even with. Feeling not enough?

(59:27):
You managed to feel enough. No, it is.
It's a constant struggle. Like again, this is what?
People will see, you know, this are where I have put on
lipstick, where I've worn of a new dress that has been
untouched. You know, it was on its hangar
for two years. Wow.
So after this, you know, like, what comes the dreariness of it,

(59:47):
you know, like the high chair, the wiping, the wet diapers, the
clothes. It is what it is, you know, So
that's what I want to encourage.I mean, you know, it, there's a
lot behind the scenes. So all we can do.
Just be kind and know. That we are.
All in it together, it's. Alicia, thank you.

(01:00:07):
Thank you for bringing such. Gentleness, clarity, and
vulnerability to this conversation and for reminding
us that joy can be found even instruggle and that presence, true
conscious presence, is one of the greatest gifts that we can
offer our children. It's been such a pleasure

(01:00:28):
getting a glimpse into your life, your home, and your heart.
Thank you, Neha it. The pleasure was all.
Mine, like, it's been lovely talking to you.
And I like the hope is always that even if it helps one mum
know that, you know, we are all the same.
Like it's happening. The minute I'm out of here, I'm
going to wear that old stained Gray T-shirt with like 2-3

(01:00:52):
holes, you know, and just be back at it.
Yeah. And to everyone.
Listening. Thank you for joining us today.
If this conversation moved you, please do share it with someone
who might need to hear it. You never know whose day or life
it might touch. And don't forget to subscribe to
Parenthood. Leave us a review if you're

(01:01:14):
listening on Spotify or YouTube,and follow us on Instagram for
more behind the scenes and updates.
This is Neha Garg signing off. Until next time, take care of
yourselves and each other and bye bye.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

The Joe Rogan Experience

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#43: From Infertility to Inner Strength: Finding Joy in the Chaos, ft. Alisha Purandare

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

The Joe Rogan Experience

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

#43: From Infertility to Inner Strength: Finding Joy in the Chaos, ft. Alisha Purandare

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang