#46: Love, Adoption & Feminism: The Politics of Parenthood & Marriage, ft. Sameena Dalwai

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
So I thought you are off and youthought I am off and I am
talking, right? This happens in many marriages,
Neha. Hello beautiful people, and
welcome back to another episode of Parenthood.

(00:20):
If this is your first time here,thank you for joining me.
And if you've been tuning in regularly, you already know this
space is all about real stories of real parents.
We go beyond picture perfect Instagram moments and dig into
the messy, joyful, confusing, and deeply rewarding layers of
raising children while also raising ourselves.

(00:43):
Today, I'm so excited to introduce you to my guest,
Samina Dalvai. Samina is a law professor, a
writer, a podcaster, A thinker, and someone who brings
sharpness, humor, and warmth to everything she does.
She's been in a partnership of 12 years with Rajdeep, a
professor of international relations and as Samina herself

(01:06):
says, the best man I've ever met.
And I've met many. Together, they're raising 2
wonderful daughters, Inaya, who's 11, and Ilika, who's 9.
Their parenting journey has beenboth unique and universal from
natural childbirth, and Samina has a few choice words about how
natural that experience really is to adoption, to figuring out

(01:30):
how to let their daughters grow with as little interference as
possible while still being present and engaged.
Samina describes family life as a mix of laughter, drama,
entertainment, fatigue, and yes,exasperation.
And I can't wait to dive into her story today.
So let's begin. Samina, thank you so much for

(01:51):
being here. Thank you for having me.
I'd love to start with you before we even step into the
role of parenting or mothering. If you had to describe yourself
in just three words or phrases that capture the essence of who
you are, what would they be and why?

(02:11):
Chaotic. Are they supposed to be
adjectives or are they supposed to be so writer?

(02:32):
Yearning. Wow, wow.
Those would be the three 3 words, yeah.
Yeah, thank you. And could you also introduce us
to your family in your own words, of course.
Tell us about Rajdeep. How did you 2 meet and how has
your relationship evolved over time, especially after becoming

(02:52):
parents? We became parents very quickly
in our relationship so that wasn't there was not much time
to discover each other. We joined the university that we
teach in in 20/12/2013 and July 2012.

(03:13):
Then 2013 July we were married Wow.
So from the first date to marriage date was not even was
about 3 months. Wow.
So we thought we will rush into this marry in haste and regret
at leisure. So regret didn't come.

(03:33):
So thankfully we are at it goingstrong.
But so we had Inaya immediately in got married in 13 and 14
August she was born Wow. So that was very fast and I

(03:54):
wanted to, I got married becauseI wanted children.
I didn't think marriage was for anything else.
So because I was in the UK and people would say, oh, but you're
marrying this guy for love, isn't it?
Or something like that. And I would say, no, you don't
marry for love. You do you marry for passport

(04:17):
here? I mean for visa to share the
rent to decide who will put the garbage out.
Not marriage is not connected tolove.
Because anyways in UK that was not a society that needed
marriage for love. So, but in all societies this

(04:41):
language of love is all-encompassing and rather
false, I thought. Hence my book on love jihad that
is upcoming. So forthcoming.
But yeah, so here I had when I came back to India, I thought I

(05:04):
will now get married and I will not do the whole journey of love
the way Goras do it, which is quite whimsical, mythical to my
standards anyway. So when I like you, I love you.
Now we move together. Now we get married.
Then they are waiting for the ring and women don't propose.

(05:24):
Men must propose. All of this drama of patriarchy
that pans out there and they think they live in an equal
society. It's actually very unequal.
So then when I came back, I thought, now I will get married
and I will propose to a guy who's, you know, around and is
interested. A lot of them were around, a lot

(05:46):
of them were interested. So that wasn't the problem then.
But then I, we were friends, me and Rajdeep, and we thought I
used to have this thing that I used to say to my friends that
we must have chemistry and politics.
Wow. 2 subjects must match. So they would say kesa, kesa,

(06:09):
let's say by politics. Kesiva, though it's impossible.
I can't be with a corporate lawyer.
Otherwise, I could be, you know,I am a lawyer, but it would be
very difficult to live with someone, you know, who's an
Adani lawyer, for example, or, or it would be difficult to be

(06:29):
with someone who's an army man. So then politics must match and
then there has to be some chemistry.
Hence you think that marriage iswhere your sexuality must pan
out after this. So chemistry, politics and then

(06:50):
so there were people around, there were whatever.
And then we were friends and we decided, OK, let's go on a date
once in April. And then when we went, we hung
out, we did stuff, we knew of each other and we in politics
matches, we realized chemistry could match also.

(07:11):
So we thought, OK, it was that easy and Tukarli.
And then we didn't really call many people for Shaadi also.
It was such a such an easy thing.
Let's go here to do work, maybe let's go to Kashmir, stay there

(07:33):
in the and do our writing. So then we did.
So it was like OK Kashmir, Jayake Shaadi Karle to Then we
went to the registrar here, marriage registrar, he said to
Rajdeep was in Delhi and I was in Bombay.

(07:53):
He thought she will not come back really so because there was
number formal thing, there was number meetings of families
there was nothing and he thoughthey kesa.
So he didn't even call his friends because he was not sure
till the end that I will come tothat shadi my own shadi.

(08:17):
So then chaotic my first word. So then I then he said he
marriage registered to timely dera.
I went and checked and he said now you talk to them.
I was known for my talking to people.

(08:38):
So I called the marriage register in Delhi.
I said please 12th July, June. Yeah, we got married on 12th
July. Yeah, either of us forget
actually this is funny. So we said 12th July tu he said

(09:01):
dekhi I said kya hai Sir humne na tickets book karli hai Bali
Ki woh hai Bara tarik ko rat ko AAP hamari shadi karwa denge Tom
shadi shuda Hoke chale Jai honeymoon.

(09:27):
He said OK Madam Ajay. He also I think laughed and said
Ajay to 12th morning we all wentthen they were friends then then
we were thinking suddenly my cousin who lives in like he was
she was in Bombay. She said I will come.
My Mama came from somewhere so mandali Jamal.

(09:48):
Anyways, some friends, some whatever, some family members
from my mother's side who are coming for a wedding, which was
like what we call, I call the formal wedding.
Yeah, next day. And then somebody went to pick
him up and they said we are going to Samina's wedding now,
he said, he said. So that was another cousin who

(10:16):
was getting married on the 13th in Delhi with, like, whatever.
So they just, like people gathered and I wore a Fabindia
kurta and went to my wedding. Wow.
Yeah, that was. And then we came back.
I think my mother had, in the meantime, bought me a sari of
some kind. It was very pretty.

(10:36):
But my wedding sari was ₹5000. That too, I thought was too
much. Ma, who's going to wear this
much? So then when I talk to people
now, when I say to people some things, you know, they tell me
I'm a feminist, living feminist icon.
I'm thankful that at least I didnot spend money on my wedding.

(10:57):
Sari. Yeah.
Because those are the things I would like to say to people.
It's not the wedding. It's the marriage that you must
worry about. Yeah.
So, so it was a very funny. We we ordered a cake.
So we wanted to do a few things that was in our heads Shadi.

(11:18):
So we ordered a cake which was 2layers.
There were 25 people. So we had one layer of this, one
layer of that because both of usloved this cake.
Then the previous night he was anyway staying with us in Delhi.
We had my father was that time an MP so we had a bungalow there
in the Luton's Delhi and Delhi was very new to me.

(11:40):
Anyways, so I just come from UK after my PhD and joined this
university. So he said I don't have
chappals, let's go buy chappals the previous night.
So we went to buy his chappals. Then I realized I never have
chappals so let's buy whatever Isaid.
Would you be chaiya mera bishadihai?

(12:02):
So then I bought something. Then we came out.
My whole I never go beyond how much in my head something must
cost ₹500 for chappal, Even for wedding chappal, same thing.
Then I'm very cheap in, you know, all of this.

(12:22):
Then we came out and we saw Aryam Hindi.
I said humko lagwana hai bahar bet ke orte kar Reddy.
I said AKA khat main laga DJ do we basically put mehndi on?
He put on his left and I put I think I put on my left and he
put on his right and so when he's driving, he can't really

(12:45):
put whatever. So I am doing the gears and he's
holding the wheel and we drove back like that and we had been
managing like that actually, that one hand on the gear and
one hand on the wheel. Wow.
So Gadi can be run like that by two people.

(13:07):
Yeah. So it's OK if you have.
And I realized if it's OK, I mean marriage is actually OK.
If you are half, half, you know,you can be complete together.
You can become one whole person if you gather many things, many
strengths. So we both have our own
strengths. Sometimes these are more than my

(13:30):
technical stuff, etcetera. Then I can deal with people,
situations, etcetera far more maybe.
Yeah. So, so that way and we have gone
now like this for 12 years, yeah, 1312 years.
It's been great because we don'treally, we try to bother each

(13:52):
other less. So that's the to pyar Jada kar
nae, Kam kar nae. And this was a learning in the
PhD. The supervisors would say do
less now less Basaviya enough now what you've done now don't

(14:13):
do more, now do less. Just focus on what you have.
So that I thought was a good lesson for many other things
also do less. My general thing is pyar, pyar

(14:34):
pyar should not become kushed. So, so I thought you are off and
you thought I am off and I am talking, right?
This happens in many marriages, Neha.
And then immediately the next year, Inaya came because I

(14:57):
wanted to get married anyways, to have children.
I was coming to. I was 34 when I got married.
So that was also another thing. All many girls around me, they
would watch me and say, yeah, Karegi uske badham Karlingge, as
long as she is, you know, told because everyone is bothering
their daughters, Shadi karlu time chala Jara.

(15:18):
And then they would say samina Tai, Karegi, uske, badham,
Karlingge. She's older to us.
So then I got married at 34. But I used to say to them, you
can't wait for me. I'm not like a marriageable kind
of a person. So they said neither are we.

(15:40):
So then when I got married theirmother said they go abus maybe
early 34 Mickey and we will wait.
So that I had a very funny thingplus Touchwood since my marriage
seemed the next 10 years a good marriage.
They also could say to their mother's kiye to late karke bhi

(16:03):
achari chalta hai right adjustment ho jaati hai yeh kuch
nahi humko nahi karna adjust. So we will adjust with our
lives, create our own space, ourown vision, and then find a
partner that matches our step. Not that at 20, find someone

(16:28):
who's 30, already, already settled, settled man.
And then then keep settling withhim.
That is not necessary. The model seems to have changed
in a way of marriage. Also, I think parenting models
are dependent and I like that. About your question, Neha, that

(16:49):
you are actually not starting with parenting model because I
think the marriage model is veryimportant in parenting model.
If you already have a hierarchical marriage model or
an extremely contentious and angry people living together and

(17:12):
they can't adjust with each other, they are jealous of each
other, they can't be supportive of each other, then what is the
kind of parenting they will do together or even individually?
Maybe then individually people are better, right?
And not together. And So what we say is, you know,
mixing coffee and sugar to cut my bitterness, add that much

(17:36):
sugar. I like to think of it like this
because I can be a bitter, angryperson.
Also, I'm also politically extremely opinionated and I was
raised in a certain kind of family and value system,
ideological 1, whereas my partner is not all of those
things. And yet when actually a storm

(18:00):
came by a way, which was a very political storm, but it came
into the university and in my teaching two years back and I
was on target as an academic as there are.
He stood by me steadfast like a rock without much drama.
And I could not have imagined a lot of people around me, a lot

(18:23):
there are, who spoke of left loudly, who could have done
that. And that taught me a lot about
ideology and the power of love and ideology and the difference
between speaking and doing. And I had anyways come to it.

(18:47):
Actually, as we grow older, I had in by my 40s, I realized
that actually the ones who talk don't actually do.
I've said to people. So that has happened a lot and

(19:10):
it has actually settled me into my earlier realizations that
actions actually speak much moreand then that happened.
So you know each experiences, somebody sent me a share, I'll

(19:31):
remember and tell you about thisexperiences experience also.
So I think so. Once you have that, then khatak

(20:00):
knowledge is very sharp and clear.
All of that is also interesting.So my marriage has gone through
a lot of this also, which is less than my parents who are
political activists. And every day there was this
drama. Everyday people would come to
our house for things, and they were activists and they were

(20:21):
actually inside things. And mine is a very Placid
academic life, so I don't have much drama.
But then I feel classroom. We talk so much and in reality
we do nothing. Yeah.
But then sometimes things happenwhen it's, it's interesting,

(20:41):
yeah. So you know, what I'm really
interested about is you said AAPshadi karna chahte because you
wanted to have kids. What about Rajdeep?
He just thought chalu Kali le TEshadi it was very funny.

(21:02):
So he came back from the US and we all joined here right?
So we were all friends. He once we are asking me and
some friends are you are the he had told us that mainly A
dekhreye gharwale. They decided they clingy.
So he said dekhlovai. So then then someone asked him

(21:26):
are you a dekhra at the kyahua? He's like, I am thinking that
these guys are looking for people that they would marry
rather than people I would marry.
So if it's actually a doctor or a whatever, you know, they say
nae nae. Whereas I cannot live with
someone who's not working, does not have a thing of her own

(21:49):
wagra, wagra. So I would better live with
someone who has her own life. Yeah, but kaise patangi is how
to explain all this. It comes from a normal Indian
family. Kheti badi bi hai.
Nice strong family, very attached with each other.

(22:12):
But not like the mad radical thing that I came from.
Right. So, so then, then he I think we
went out and he just maybe he had a little crush.
But you know, you have little crushes on many people.
Yeah, don't marry all here. We got married and it was funny

(22:39):
because we went to his masses Wagra Wagra and they were we
went to his place after few months of our marriage and they
had something like a small like a get together because his
brother's little boy, our nephew, second nephew was born.
And there is after 2-3 months there is some kind of a welcome

(23:00):
of the baby ceremony. He said you see made all the the
Hamarabi introduction to you, Tumarabi to Yaha new hai to we
had his brother and him together, had a get together and
we all sat there and this was inTelangana, it was in Hyderabad.
So many people from my family also they all came from mine is

(23:21):
also Hindu, Muslim family. So the Muslim side, Hindu side,
they all came together, the close family.
So some 30-40 people I think from my family also came and
they enjoyed Hyderabad. They went around, they saw the
sarees, they saw the whatever you know and and then the shadi
food is also there, all kinds ofnon vegetarian fish, mutton,

(23:44):
chicken, everything. So my family, both sides, they
were very pleased. They are like Hindu shadi Mein
Hota Maria in Maharashtra, Muslim obviously mutton.
So then so you have a high level.

(24:05):
So then that was all the fun everyone actually enjoyed and
his family. It was the first time they said
outside of Telugu speakers, I think outside of Reddish maybe
that we are getting married intoand they enjoyed it.
Then they came also for his parents etcetera.

(24:28):
Were very OK with it. So people watch your parents.
What is their reaction? If parents react stupidly, then
all the cha Chas Mamas will cometo do chow chow.
So parents must always remember not to react negatively because
there your children are going todo it anyways.
So when he declared that I will get married to this woman, his

(24:50):
mother's first reaction was verynice.
We met her. She was, you know, full of
smiles. And yeah, when he had brought
his parents once as a friend to our offices and I said, I hear
Betty Chai Mangate. Because I am Darvarina, I will
call for whatever gappe Maro. Yes, I can hold a conversation
singly also. So she said she was ekdam

(25:13):
hasmukh and bhatsara bhatiyati hai.
It's nice. Only she did not react to any of
this. Like I'm half Muslim that you
know To all of them, it should have been a lot of it.
Drama could have been a lot, butnone of it happened and he did
not expect any drama. The kind of person he is, he

(25:35):
doesn't expect people to have drama on his life.
He's very clear on that. What should they say?
I have decided my life. People will fall in line.
He does it softly, but he does it very firmly.
Wow. I do a lot of drama because I
expect a lot of drama. He doesn't at all.
So that's also interesting. And everyone else fell in line

(25:59):
and they were very interested inmeeting the Marathi and whatever
and Yevo and our family came to Hyderabad, Devoto very pleased.
And all kinds of so it was interesting, I mean mixing and
Rajdeep obviously 11 Chitti. I think 1 Chinama came to me and

(26:21):
said I really, we were, we were very worried about him.
And I'm thinking, yeah, you're either thinking he's 35 now or
34, whatever, you know, similar age mean he's a year younger to
me. So they must have thought Abhi
yeh to gay hai, yeh to kuch, shadi to hogana iska or a

(26:43):
girlfriend. And in Indian families shadi is
a main thing. But then she was like, so we
were thinking and I think she tried to tell me that then we
thought that he will settle. He will have to settle for like,

(27:05):
you know, whatever they have this whole hierarchy of Rashti,
right, Right. Looks nahi hai, Mani nahi hai,
education nahi hai, that kind ofhierarchy of whatever.
So then she wanted to tell me that you're pretty and you're
educated and your father is an MP and everything that others

(27:28):
are looking for when they do look for Rishta, he just managed
without doing anything. I'm thinking hierarchy does not
work like that in relationships.When you find your own mates,
you don't go looking for whatever.
So if they thought what did this1234 things see in this guy?

(27:50):
What does he have? They haven't seen what he is he
they only know what his family can offer, right?
How much land they have, what isthe status they have, but they
can't imagine a partner that is a support all through your life
and as a woman that's the most important thing that you must

(28:13):
have. So his value is under
appreciated in marriage market right where they are going to go
by looks, money, ghora hai Ki nahi hai etcetera.
He's very good looking also. That is a different thing.
But I keep telling him I made you good looking once you got
married. But with all that.

(28:37):
So then but you know with with this marriage market is a very
strange market. A lot of good men don't because
they are good. They actually are low on this
list and the ones who will be good partners.

(28:58):
How will you recognize that in this market where you are not
actually putting the man's virtues, but all of that he can,
you know, give rather than what he can be.
He this, this guy will not be a bother.
How will you know that in this arranged marriage market, right?

(29:19):
Yeah. So I call it a marriage market.
I think it is. Everyone knows that.
So it's like an industry. It is a market.
So the 123 and the brand is veryclear there.
Nehai is not creating the brand.So then the.
That's right. So it's a problematic brand
creation. Yeah.
How will this person be? I would have been a very bad

(29:40):
marriageable goal, right, Because I was never going to
make rotis. I'm now learning, so that's
interesting. Also, Garpi Khanna, I see.
I could not do anything. I am not at all polite or many
things, you know, I go with my own thing first, then other

(30:01):
things follow. And I would have been terrible,
but I am actually to him a very good partner.
Because with we pamper each other.
In fact with children also we put each other first rather than
the child 1st. And that we have realized
actually helps with children also because a child falls

(30:22):
mother shout at the father's first.
How did he fall? Lagraithna?
And then they look very sheepish, very guilty.
Guilty Relationships name. So children become like the
focal point and you become the child management agency.
Yeah. Rather than being partners,

(30:46):
child management. But we never did that.
We focused on each other all thetime.
And for first ourselves. Yeah.
So me first, my partner 2nd, andthen the children, then the
whole world, if at all, if at all, no world.

(31:10):
And for me, the political world,personal world are actually
together. So it's always there.
And that also, I think, is when people say good human beings,
what does that mean? We are going to raise our
children to be good human beingsis if you don't talk to your
maid nicely then how are your children going to be good human

(31:32):
beings? Uncle ko namaste karo Aunty G
bolo per karo yeh SAB karo mandir jao diyalagao or underpay
your staff and don't treat them as humans.
That doesn't actually make to sanskari ladkiya ladke Jo hai

(31:54):
Aspas mere to bahati ojate. Because I teach in a very elite.
Why do we call it elite but richplace?
And they are sanskari in one type and terrible on the other.
So. So that is also there.
How? How parenting.
What are the principles of parenting?
Yeah, yeah. Who are we in the world?

(32:17):
What is our space in the world? Yeah.
How much can we take from nature?
How much should our greed be? And what we call development.
For example, after cutting trees, our plot becomes
development plot. So what are we going to leave
for the next generation? There will be no trees in, say,

(32:39):
in the next 50 years. So then, yeah, Sanskari Bhatti,
Kya Karenge, Badi Badi buildings, Baraki, 20th floor.
And you can see the sea, but no tree.
So, I mean, all of this is very strange, right?
Yeah. Then you go to the jungle to
look for trees. Yeah.
What is this? The jungle is very worried.

(33:03):
I get, you know, Marathi poems from.
Very interesting poets that say now jungle dar Gaya hai jaisehi
meka mahina aajata hai a school Ki chuttiya chalu ho jayenge
jungle pehle SE dar Gaya hai kyaap Lok jaoge har jog Jake

(33:30):
kudoge koi bahar naya paiga paiga chupke re jayenge.
So what we are doing with our children is not just what we are

(34:06):
doing with our children, right? Yeah.
It's what we are living as humanbeings, as societies.
But if we actually let go of allthe principles of our elders, in
a way, what we, what the, what tribal societies would call
elders? Yeah, elders.
I don't mean the Khapanchat kindof, Yeah, but people who looked

(34:32):
at the world wisely, Yeah. And took only what was needed.
Yeah. And gave applied with love.
If that does not carry on, then we raise our children to be part
of a barren world. So all of that I I tried to

(34:53):
bring into my parenting, but no lectures.
Yeah, none of this. I will speak to the child.
We will just go look for the birds and they are very they
know fifty types of birds. I think more so I maybe 100 and

(35:14):
they know everything about the bird.
So they go quietly, they look for the birds.
They know their, I mean personality, what they eat, what
they will do, the noises. Because also we live on a campus
which has managed to keep birds.It's a beautiful campus and they
walk around, they do look at trees, they look at birds.

(35:38):
And now they have anyways gone to Krishnamurthy School in Pune
and it's an experiment. We shall see how how that goes.
So they're also they are learning to be.
I used to think Inaya, my older 1 is a Pakka Krishnamurthy type
of a child. Anyways, she's stickler for

(35:58):
rules. But it's in the very Michelle
Foucault type of a thing. Governmentality, it will not
come. Rules will be very strict, but
implementation will be very soft.
So if and Krishnamurthy schools do that, I find the rules very
strict, severe in fact. But the implementation is very

(36:20):
soft. So and she does very well in
that kind of a place. Nobody's telling her off, but
she will follow. So she's an ideal citizen.
The other one is very MF Hussein.
So she walks barefoot everywhere, unkempt hair and

(36:45):
paints all day long and does just what she pleases.
So I, I'm quite worried and thrilled for her.
The rules don't apply to her. And anyways, I, I am a type that
rules don't apply to me. Also most tuitions or social

(37:07):
rules, etcetera. So but I do wear chappals.
But actually even on campus I'vegone without chappal as well and
gone to teach also like that. So she does that all the time.
And she also is late everywhere.The little one who's the adopted
little one and she so she started running when we were

(37:30):
with her in the school and I said suddenly after breakfast I
am late for my guitar class. So I said what time was the
guitar class? She says while we were eating
breakfast. I said OK, then she runs.
Then I run after her. Then she runs and gets into a

(37:51):
class and goes and sits on the first bench and that poor
teacher gives her a guitar. She starts doing.
I am checking the time is 8:30 and then I'm checking the
timetable. Their 4th standard to 5th
standard was 8 to 830. Her time is done.
She goes at 8:30. She starts doing OK.

(38:14):
I mean, if that teacher doesn't mind and throw her out, she's
going to do this. I think it's fine.
You know, she's managing her ownway.
You ask her what time is this supposed to be?
She says, I don't know, I go in other school.
What time is your for lunch? I don't know, I go in other
school. So if you say your teacher says

(38:38):
you're late for everything, she says that is true, you say, and
your teacher also says you are. When work is given in the class,
you look here, you look there, you talk to this one, talk to
that one and don't start immediately, hence you can't
finish in time, she says that istrue too.

(39:04):
That is the whole conversation. Because I don't tell her
anything. I decided what is the point of
me trying to keep her timetable when I'm not really around?
Yeah, let teachers and they are managing with her.
It's fine. The number one, that was another
kind of thing. The teacher said your number one

(39:24):
only reads at all possible times.
So I know clearly. That's why I sent her to you,
because she read 500 pages when she was nine years old.
Wow, a day and when she once I asked her, we were in Germany, I
was on a on this Humboldt fellowship.
I was in Berlin. I asked her how many pages do

(39:48):
you read a day? She said 500.
I'm thinking could be Bolt Ray. So we don't say anything.
I will spy on her, right? So I am thinking, I told Rajdeep
this one is saying 500 pages. He said possible.

(40:12):
So I said OK. Then we had gone to a library.
I said Abhi tumlogna, you guys sit here in this children's
section. I will go roam around and come
back. So they sat, I left them and
came back in one hour and 15 minutes and I saw her pick up a

(40:33):
big book and start with page #1 and when I came back she was
page #118 Wow. So I said, how much now?
OK, are we going? OK, so you know she doesn't want

(40:53):
to leave the book, but we were on the way to the airport.
So. So it was true that she can read
500 page. This was then.
So now it will be much worse, this situation.
So then we thought, but beta, ifyou only read, what will you do
else in life, right? How about sport, art, singing,

(41:17):
music? Kuch to chahiye life, man.
Then she's gone there. So obviously, teachers say all
spare moments. She's on her bed reading because
she finishes one whole book in aday.
Then she returns to the library.Next day she gets another one.

(41:37):
This after doing all the other things because it's a very busy
place and she loves everything, which is also funny.
Oh, I love Zumba. I love this block of whatever
pottery or whatever. So.
So I said OK, So what is the problem?
The problem is that she's not putting effort into making

(41:58):
friends with anyone in the when there is a time for batch games
she's not going. She finds if it's mandatory she
will do stuff otherwise she's with her book.
Then I said then what do you want me to do?

(42:21):
Because I anyways do not believethat a person should waste time
in yapping with people right? But I don't see that because I
do a lot of yapping also, but currently not.
But as a child I did. I was, I used to hold my
dharvas. I was known for that particular
thing. Kitna Bhatiyati, right, What
Ismat Chukta calls jumle bazi, Jumle bazi a lot.

(42:47):
And but my grandmother was a writer and she was a known, not
fiction intellectual writer in Maharashtra.
Her name was Nalini Pandey. So now when this daughter of
mine, when she's standing with her bag at even age 3 or 4 and
the photos go within the family,my mommy looks at the photo and

(43:08):
laughs and says exactly like I exactly like my aji.
And she looks at 4 exactly like her great grandma tapping her
foot waiting by her luggage. Abhi chalo.
Why are these people wasting their time?
You know, mine is just. I have to now go.
So at 4 also, she did not look back at the father mother and

(43:31):
say, you know, none of that. So now I said she's like my
grandmother by temperament. And she had an excellent life in
the sense of, you know, contributions and whatever.
She did not miss on people. Yeah.
I mean, she did not have enough of people, but she was an icon.
Yeah. So now what am I going to tell

(43:53):
this one? Yeah, so then she said, well,
she smiled. She said, I understand.
The teacher also said, I understand what you mean.
I said let her find if she misses, but she might miss
people. I said good, if she misses
people, she will find ways to make amends.

(44:13):
Then I went to her class. Boys are all sitting together,
pushing each other. Girls are sitting at the back
giggling. This Madam is sitting alone.
So I go. I sit next to her.
I say you are not sitting there,you don't need people.
Kya. No Mama, I've got books.

(44:36):
No. Said OK now, but if you actually
see she's self assured so she's not, you know, she's not as a
aloof but aloof, but always withpeople.
And then I realized later, I mean teacher would have realized
also there was some friendship day and she received 15 handmade

(45:01):
friendship bands. Wow, there is the younger one.
That how do you do that without making friends because.
The aloof ones are more attractive to people.
Maybe we also fell for guys who did not look at us.
No. So and those, those were the
crushes that remained unnecessarily long.

(45:23):
Yeah. So that may be the thing that
you know, she aloof, but she's not unfriendly.
She's always talking to people is with them.
I saw her and I was a bit worried when the teacher said,
but I saw her sitting with cats,sitting with other people,
talking to them, etcetera, etcetera all the time.

(45:44):
But if you went and said where is Inaya, they would turn
around. People are sitting outside
yapping. They would say Inaya must be on
her bed reading. So if there was a chunk of
whatever, they would just say she's there.
But whereas Ilika changed, she's, according to me, a people

(46:05):
pleaser, the little 1. And I used to wonder if it's
also to do with adoption that, you know, you feel that you must
please people. So I used to try to tell her in
different ways that you don't need to please us.
I mean, in whatever way we have to love you.
That's that's how it is. So since you are our child,

(46:29):
whatever you do, that's how. It's not like constantly
pleasing behaviour is necessary,but she can be a pain in the ass
also so which is OK, but she hasbecome different there.
Somebody came and spoke to her alittle bit harshly.
She turned around and said back off.

(46:50):
Oh, wow. I had never seen her, you know,
do that. She's always cute, cute thing
and always doing fashionista business and saying I'm
suffering for fashion and like with hair like this, with hair
like this, like I'm in Berlin, Ican't pull that hair back

(47:14):
bodily. I'm like, what is that hair
beta? It's actually covered one eye.
I'm suffering for fashion Mama. I don't need both the eyes to
see one is enough, like on a devopus.
So then better. You don't need to suffer for
anything. You're just nine years old.

(47:36):
Suffering is not basis for fashion, for culture, for state,
for nothing. But so that one is.
I thought she was like that she's soft on people or
whatever. But here was in the previous
school, she would be like, I'm always going to be kind to my
classmates, even if they push me, I don't do anything,

(47:57):
etcetera, etcetera. Whereas here she's become like a
carrot judge. I'll put so maybe hostel and you
know, when they themselves live on their own, they find
themselves and there must be something that is individual,
something that comes from. So it's currently an experiment.

(48:19):
We shall also see how much the mother survives it, how much the
children survive it. How long have they been there?
Just for a few months now. So they went on in 4th and 6th,
which to me is young, but then it's a good time to go.
In fact, I would have them back after a couple of years because

(48:41):
by then they can manage their own thing, right?
They can go to school alone. So if I was in Berlin or any
other place abroad, I would haveto otherwise take them to
school, bring them back, etcetera, etcetera, here.
And then there are all these activities that we are supposed
to do, like the Chinese and Indian moms.
And then that would take too much of their and my time.

(49:05):
Whereas here together everythingis concentrated whole day.
They do everything. And the school has a very
important theological, philosophical kind of bend,
right, reflection and contemplation and all of that is
important. Number one is all that I'm doing
it anyways. But #2 might learn a little bit

(49:27):
from that because she's the action person.
So both need, I think the thinkers need action and anchor
action. People need thinking.
So they are two different types and they both need the other
side as we all do. So that I feel.
But it's just now they have goneand then I might the school goes

(49:49):
till 12th. But and it might be quite
useful, but we shall see. Because there is also value in
being with your own parents and parents if they are not terribly
bad. Yeah, it's not a given always.
So then that's, you know, so that we shall see how that goes.

(50:11):
I would have liked to have them around and then they go
themselves, come back themselveskind of a thing.
So maybe a little bit, a few more years of this, two years or
so, and then we shall see again how it goes.
They're enjoying it a lot. I am so glad to hear that

(50:31):
because little kids, they want to be with their parents.
As much as the parents want to be with the kids, kids also want
to be with the parents, yeah. They also miss us a lot and when
we were there, then like half anhour before we left, there was I
want to go home and a little bitof tears, etcetera.

(50:53):
But then if you talk to them andyou say, but what will you do?
You want to come to Bombay to that katra that you keep saying
Kitna katra or to whatever. Then they said you are to having
lots of fun Abito yoga next yearyoga and they're like OK then.
So they enjoyed already they hadrealised that they like it

(51:14):
there. One month there they had settled
and they were also not first time going away from us.
We send them everywhere anyways.So that's also in the parenting
pattern. What do you do?
We send them away wherever people ask and wherever they say
yes we will go, we send. So that has been from the very

(51:36):
beginning. What do you mean very beginning
like? Age 2.
Wow Age 2. Age 2 her Atta said send her to
so I sent her the the older one Inaya.
She went to her at 10 months. She came back from England with

(51:58):
my parents and realized once they reached in Bombay that
actually her mother is not there.
Oh wow. In the flight she just was
asking for prawns, asking for I think she wanted the whiskey
also. And so she was like, I want
this. So she just become ten months or
whatever and she no, not the first time, I think no, my

(52:23):
parents two years. When she was nearly two years,
she came back with my parents wow, and stayed here for maybe
two weeks without me. Wow.
And then when she was a little bit older, she went to her her
Atta. So my sister-in-law, she said

(52:45):
send. So she went so very early on.
The older one has gone, younger one also and together because
they're a gang, they will say wewill go together.
And so this when they couldn't talk, we'd made the decision and
sent and between adults and I could watch her on videos and

(53:06):
whatever that she's looking a little lost in the beginning.
For the first few days when she went to my sister-in-law, she
would be a little and then in a few days her eyes changed, her
demeanor changed. Then she was very settled there
and she stayed a long time, nearly a month, and she would

(53:27):
sit there in the middle of all the, you know, grandmothers and
aunts and cousins and speak in Telugu, which she later lost,
which was, which is sad because she was at age 4 speaking 4
languages. Wow, quite fluently.
Then she lost Telugu. Now she understands but doesn't

(53:48):
speak. Is her cousins also now speak to
her in English. And yeah.
So. So then English becomes the
dominant language because children understand class very
quickly. Dogs understand class on campus,
I feel. Yeah.
They they will surround a personwith a duper tanned black tails

(54:08):
like the short swearing person. Because I have both so I
experienced both. So same children also get that.
They get class, what language isclass language etcetera.
So now it's English, Hindi, Marathi but Telugu is lost to my
great dismay because I don't speak it also.

(54:29):
So it's the father tongue other than the mother tongue.
There is a book now, Father, Father Tongue and Mother, which
which says that the creoles, thelanguages that were mixed on
African, on the settlements where slaves came from Africa.
And the structure is the languages that were there and
the words are from the father tongues.

(54:51):
So the mix can happen of languages.
But here actually we stick to our languages.
It's also interesting because mynephew is half Chinese.
My brother raises his children in Oxford with his wife who's
Chinese, and so they speak theirown languages.
So he speaks Marathi, Mandarin and English.

(55:15):
Wow. And very fluently, all all of
them very puritan style of Marathi.
So he speaks a language which isMI fattfati samarunali, MI
dutsaki verza thota mugamza pagadzala kariyalaya zatana.
So that that then we look at each other and say, what did he

(55:37):
say? So because we are like office,
scooter, bicycle. Yeah.
And then he comes and says, and he knows.
He knew, started realizing that what his father is teaching him
is taken as a joke by others. Yeah.
He started saying to me Brahmanthwani, your

(55:57):
Brahmanthwani is there and I'll be like Jim.
So he would laugh this so he would be like he now gets it
that it's actually for the rest of Marathi speakers.
All of this is funny and they don't even get it.
The language he learned because they they were doing pure

(56:19):
language without the influence of other languages.
So he speaks 3. So together they to speak
Marathi to each other also. So it's funny when they all are
together, they are speaking in Marathi, yeah, rather than in
English then, because the familylanguage becomes Marathi.

(56:39):
I met one more friend in Berlin who again her children speak
Marathi because she's Maharashtra, then English which
they learned I think, but actually father is French and
they are in Berlin. So Marathi French were their
first languages, then school wasGerman and English.

(57:01):
So it's very cute. So they when our children met,
they again were speaking in Marathi.
Both of them have different accents, right.
Only Inaya has the Marathi Marathi accent.
Rest of them have very mixed accents.
Yeah, so it's it's very cute. And I don't try to change
people's accents at all or any grammatical errors or anything.

(57:23):
I think it's, there is nothing like a pure language.
So it's Pramana Bhasha or not. Pramana Bhasha should or I
should. Yeah.
So it's only the language of theclasses and the masses.
So with all of that, I mean, it's not my belief alone.
A lot of people are working on this so, so that also makes it's

(57:47):
a cuter language that they all speak together.
So all our children have and children resolve the issue of
adoption. If you were to ask an adoption
question, I'm going to Do you have an adoption question?
Please answer you. You know I am.

(58:08):
I am is it? Difficult.
Is it difficult to tell your child kind of thing, right?
Someone asked me the other day. Also, do you love both your
children the same way? Did.
Someone ask you that. Yeah, I am like no, no, that
very nicely. As in do they?
Is there a difference? Is there a difference in the

(58:29):
love that you feel? So yeah, possibly there is.
Then when people have asked me in, I think I shared this piece
with you also that when people have asked me in a mandali and
put me on the spot, I do it verywell to put them back on the
spot. So this doesn't work with me.

(58:50):
So but Are you sure your you will love both your daughters
the same way? So I say, Auntie, Are you sure
you love your son and daughter the same way?
Or the son who is earning and the son who's not earning?
You are the daughter who's fair and the daughter who's not fair.

(59:11):
Such simple things that you actually make discrimination on.
And then you're asking me this question.
If I've done it on my own, People did not hoist this child
on me. I went looking for her.
Yeah, right. So it is, It's a very stupid

(59:33):
question. Do I love my child?
What is this? Then it's also if she asks me,
then I will think about whatever.
So she has asked me which is thetummy that I came from.
So then I said, I don't know that tummy actually, and but it

(59:58):
was very lucky that that you came to me.
But it's also luck that Inaya came to me because there is a
whole process in which Inaya could be Kinaya, Kimaya, Limaya,
anything, right? There are hundreds of whatever
in this whole biological process.
Also she could be anything else.So that she's become this.

(01:00:23):
It's not like an archetype that I would have had a daughter just
like this. And so same way you came to me.
And so I used to say to her thatthank you for becoming my
daughter Lita. So she would say thank you for
being my mother then. So she also realizes that it's a
great thing that we met, but shedoesn't know the the chances

(01:00:47):
could have been very slim. Yes, in this of meeting now I
know, right. So I think it's a great thing.
But then I don't think all of these that's very funny because
I don't have a lot of questions and worries.
So when people ask me, I am like, then it must be difficult

(01:01:11):
for you. My favorite sentence to my
brother used to be it is It mustbe very difficult to be you, my
dear. And he would say, yes, it must
be very difficult being yourself.
Though it is difficult to be Samina also, but in this it is

(01:01:35):
not so difficult. Being a mother is very easy for
me because I have don't have a lot of questions.
I'm very sure of a lot of things.
And so when I told her if anybody comes to you and says
anything you are to say to them,you have to actually quietly go
put your nose to their nose and say I'm a not a warrior.

(01:01:59):
We don't just kill our enemies, we hang their heads.
Kabhi Gharana, very mummy so, But when she was a young child,
she was so lovely that she did not need all of this.
But we thought growing up in North India, that is Rajdeep's

(01:02:20):
very more than mine that growingup in North India.
If she's in Delhi, she looks different, then she will have
trouble. Wagra Wagra, we will see.
I don't think any trouble will come her way that easily.
And she's actually surrounded bya lot of stuff.
Yeah, you know, but so this I have said, I don't know that you

(01:02:42):
know who, etcetera, but you havea chance after 18 to find out.
Yeah, I am told actually. It's like meeting strangers,
etcetera. But if she wants to, she should
go find and see. But I explained to her did she
not like me? She asked me this also.
So I said there was no time for her to like or not like.

(01:03:04):
Who cannot like you? Everyone loves you.
But she was a 17 year old girl. She was in like just a late
teenager who could not manage onher own a baby.
She's herself a baby. She needs to grow up.
So then if she is a grown woman when you are whatever, you can

(01:03:25):
try finding her if you feel likeit.
This is also only. Of was she when she you started
having these conversations with her?
This was now last year or so, but children manage themselves
actually the information. How will you tell her my, my

(01:03:46):
somebody had you know, within the family had said, I'm very
curious how you will tell her. I want to be around, you know,
and I want to learn also how to how this will be done.
So I said nay, I say Kuchua thatthere was no event because there
is amongst the children. They used to discuss and Inaya
used to tell that I went to bring Ilika, I brought her, I

(01:04:09):
fed her. Clearly she has done everything.
So they and parents were just around.
Yeah, the bearers of bringing these two girls back.
So she went to Nagaland because she wanted a little sister and
she met this little sister. They gave her to her and she
brought her back. And then she was feeding her

(01:04:33):
lots of milk and she started feeding her Kayla because she
was a very hungry child, this little baby.
So that's the story is like thatthat Inaya brought me and she
was actually feeding me banana. I was hungry.
So then others actually in frontof me once are my friend's

(01:04:54):
daughter, my neighbors. She said, Mama, we have to go to
Nagaland. So Mama said, why?
Because I want a little sister. She said, Archa, yeah, you get
little sisters there. She said, Who told you?
Ilika told me, Mama, you get little sisters there.
So she said, OK, Beta, if I'm inthe market for a little sister

(01:05:17):
for you ever, I will keep this in mind.
Yeah, it's a good information. Thank you for sharing it with
me. Yeah.
So they all decided that if you have the friend wanted a little
sister, then she said if she mother is not taking me there,
you only become my little sisterfor some time.
So that was also because this one was a little sister everyone

(01:05:39):
wanted there. But they, I mean, my nephew came
and asked my brother Baba, how old was I when I came from
Nagaland. He said you beta, you came from
your, you know, hospital, the mother's tummy.
So then he went back, he said I came from my mother's tummy.

(01:06:02):
So then they realized there are two types of babies.
Some come from mother's tummies,some come from Nagaland.
So these are two types, OK, Theydecided this works.
So they were fine with it. We didn't have to interfere.
Then slowly, I think the it's not about what the conversation

(01:06:22):
contour changes, right? So in the beginning it was just
we came from Nagaland, we were eating bananas.
Then slowly, who could be the mother?
And that has come slowly. Do you love me?
Why? Etcetera.
How did you get me this? So all of that then who was that
person? Why did she not want me?

(01:06:45):
More stuff will come. I think the questions keep
coming. Yeah.
As as it's a layered, our understanding of the world is a
very layered process, Right. So first was very simple.
Food and place was all the same.Yeah.
Didn't realize that there is a body involved or whatever.

(01:07:06):
Now, slowly that has come. Stuff will come.
Yeah. I mean, it's OK.
All all types of things will happen.
It's not just the adopted child who will be a troubled soul,
right? Everyone will be troubled.
Yeah. And so this is just one more
layer why we find it easy. I mean, I find it easy is

(01:07:30):
because. And maybe some people don't is
because my life and our collective family life is not so
mono cultural, right? We don't have one particular
culture into which an alien child has entered.
We were already Hindu, Muslim, then we were in the next

(01:07:50):
generation mix of languages, then the third generation comes
with different looks. So now it's all the children.
If you look at the children in my family, they all have
different look than what you have.
As a normal. Only Inaya would have the but
it's also Telugu Marathi mix butotherwise there is no racial

(01:08:13):
difference. But then Ilika looks nada.
But Ishan and era are mix of Indian and Chinese so that's
also the eyes are big and but the features are and they're
super pretty I feel. Ishan will be a hero, I feel
decides to join Bollywood so that so that, you know, in all

(01:08:37):
of this we have several languages, many religions.
So there is not this one child that is different than the rest
of the family. Yeah, all the families mix and
all types of people are there already.
This was part of my mother's family.
She used to say my family has all religions already, then

(01:08:59):
other nationalities came other racist came languages.
Then it doesn't really matter. One child is not.
I mean it's just one of the uniquenesses and quirks.
She can't be more quirky than I am right?
No one can be more chaotic or crazy.
So she is actually better that way.

(01:09:22):
Yeah, yeah. You know, I am so interested to
know right now they are so young.
But if they listen to both of them, if they listen to this
episode, say 10 years, 15 years from now, what would you want
them to take away from hearing their mother's voice?

(01:09:42):
I hope the mother's voice will be there in 20 years later, that
time talking to them. And they may not want to hear
their mother's voice. One more channel.
They'll be like all of this. They know it's not spoken
directly. Yeah, but things are known to

(01:10:08):
them. I don't do anything as an event
like good touch, bad touch, but I tell them everything like no
one can touch you without your permission anywhere and
definitely not in the inner bodythat you don't actually even
show. So nobody, you know, I never say

(01:10:31):
Uncle Sebat Karo, you know children don't.
And we also do that with other children.
When we say bye, they don't, right?
Then my mothers will say auntie is saying bye to you, you should
say bye. I'm like, no, we should earn
their trust. We should earn their smiles.
They can't be bestowing it upon us.
They are the kings. They are little children.

(01:10:53):
Why should they be doing whatever?
We will earn it so we, we get very competitive about children,
you know, smiling at us. And we will show them lots of
things. Chalo Beta.
We will show you the trees and the flowers and the whatever.
And then after this whole conversation of 10 minutes, the
child will reluctantly say bye. She should also think you guys

(01:11:16):
are worth her attention. Why otherwise will she?
So I told her one mother just the other day.
She's just two years old. Never say uncle, say bhatwat
karo especially the uncle shouldnot be around our children
anyways and they should earn their trust.
And even after that, the child should know that they should

(01:11:40):
come to her mother at any point.And there is no secret between
mother and you, at least till age 20 or whatever, whatever,
till till you are, you know, safe.
So with all of that, we do all this, but without much drama.
Like let us sit down. And they do this.
We want a meeting, Mama. And then they come and Mama, we

(01:12:03):
want a meeting. Like what are the meetings
about? Meeting.
We don't want to go to Germany and eat your bhajis and masalas.
OK what then? We will eat what the Germans
eat. What do the Germans eat?
Sausage and bread OK salad. Salad is OK and something I

(01:12:29):
asked salad is OK and bread, Bread is OK Cheese yes.
So then I said great who thoughtwhen I corn Jake chal Dal chal
tu marile banega. So we went and 1st I think a
month we ate only this and then afterwards we are in Warsaw and
Inaya starts saying I am missingDal chawal and bhindi bhaji.

(01:12:56):
When Ajdeep said Inaya you caved, you caved, you said all
of this and now, now you are like.
Then he went. We were with friends from
America and Ukraine actually. So they were also a mixed family
and we used to say, I used to say to them, Baa pray look at
your babies, you make really pretty children and they would
say right back at you. So there were all these, you

(01:13:17):
know, very pretty children around and they so we said let
us make now Indian khana. So we did Dal chawal bindi
bhaji, chicken Curry salad raitayeh woh sabkuch because anyways
we wanted to make for them but then we couldn't let her see the
end of it. Kya hai bindi bhaji khara.

(01:13:40):
So, so these are their meetings.We want to or Mama can we have
₹20 to the what for, to go to the other side of campus and buy
some kachra. I call all of this poor Kachra.
They also come and say, can we go buy some kachra?
So I say what Kachra will you buy?
I can. I know first.

(01:14:01):
So they buy some juice and some chips and they come back or
whatever because they are not living in the city.
So their influences are very limited.
They don't know that all this exists, what money can buy.
And I have also sent them to place where money won't buy
anything. Yeah.
So that is also there. Yeah, yeah, beautiful,

(01:14:23):
beautiful. I have two last questions for
you Samina before we close this conversation.
If you were to sit across your pre parent self, what advice
would you give her? Is there an advice that you
would give her? Nothing, because actually pre
parent we can't imagine all this.
Yeah, and people had said a lot of things to me then which could

(01:14:47):
have been useful or not useful. I did not register the the the
paradigm is a shift is not a degree of things.
And then a lot of things that people said to me when you
become a mother, you will do just this.
I don't Yeah, I did not become So I used to say to them, I will
not become you. I will just become my mad self.

(01:15:11):
If it's a motherhood makes you mad, which is true.
I will just become my own mad self.
I will not become mad like oh meri bacchi kya kahenge or my
baccha should not play with the Bangi's son.
Suddenly. I'm not going to become like I'm
a caste scholar. I am not suddenly going to
become a caste based biased mother, right?

(01:15:34):
When you become a mother, you will start thinking about all of
these things. No, I am going to think more.
Why are Palestine children dyingthat I did not think as a non
mother. So I used to I used to
breastfeed and I used to feel this.
My blood and sweat and milk is going into a little baby and a
child that is lost in a fight ina battle is lost.

(01:15:58):
A mother's life is taken away from.
And I used to actually feel morekeenly on my political beliefs,
not the other way round, right? I used to feel that thing must
stop now because it's when a child is killed by a bullet how
much the mother's life is got right.
So I started giving more money on the street to to bikaris and

(01:16:22):
whatever it did not change. I felt wise.
What will the child eat if I don't give him now?
So that our bikaris should not be given money?
All of that is fine. So you know, otherwise we are
feeding the system or what system are you not feeding?
Otherwise we're feeding capitalism, we're feeding
prostitution, we're feeding everything.

(01:16:43):
Only the Vitara butchers asking for food should not be given
money. Yeah.
Anyways, why should I not feed someone?
Or I would see a mother with a child.
I would feel that her hunger in on her face, you know, because
you are so much more hungry. As a breastfeeding mother, I
would give far more money to women with very little babies.

(01:17:07):
And all this talk doesn't help. They will not spend on
meaningful things as if you are all spending on meaningful
things. And all the kapada that you buy
meaning? Who?
Creates that meaning. All the kapada that you buy and

(01:17:30):
keep there and then you need mothballs to keep your kapada or
you use it, give it away, right?So much so with all of these,
you know, so I have a very minimalist principle ideology.
Also, all my stuff should go in one bag and I can pack and leave

(01:17:50):
anytime. I should be able to live
anywhere in the world so I should be able to eat what
people eat and all of that. Some of it comes also for my
grandma. She took me to Narmada Bacha
Vandalan when I was 13 years old.
My grandfather was also working with Baba Ante that time and he
So when she took me along, she said whatever you carry, you

(01:18:14):
will carry. Physically carry that much you
will pack no more. Others will not come to help
you. So my grandparents when I was
13, she was 63, she was 6516. They would pick up their own
things. They were very self-sufficient
people and I packed like that and she would have a little bag

(01:18:37):
to carry her floats and they would have a basta, a little
like I saw Jholi for a chaddar, a bed sheet, like a pillow case.
She was very Brahmin in her thing.
I used to call her that ajio, very Brahmin re Baba.
So she would say, Baba, you leave non branding, you do what
you like, but I would need all my clean things.

(01:18:59):
I would do this, she would, and she would wash her in the
Narmada. She would go wash her own saris,
dry them. So I used to watch her and I've
become more and more her while she was alive.
I used to say to her, who will become like you are to you, Oh

(01:19:21):
my God, look at your life. You are like the, you know, the
professor who follows her clock all the time.
Now Inaya has become like that and I am still very chaotic, but
I am like her in the sense that I'm, I live alone, very happy
and I want no clutter in my heador around me.

(01:19:44):
And I can only peacefully write.And then the only difference
that me and Aji, because she used to walk six to seven in the
morning, six to seven in the evening, twice in the day after,
especially after she was a professor of economics, but
after she left that job in the morning, 60 to 80.
Next 20 years she used to walk 2times.

(01:20:04):
I go for rigorous like this kickboxing and that kind of
thing that makes me very happy. So I'd go for Zumba and those
and those two things. Writing and this fitness stuff I
totally enjoy. Also enjoy cooking etcetera,
which is also children time. You can do things together,
dancing again, you do that together, painting.

(01:20:27):
So all of that, that I'm sure other parents also do with.
We are supposed to do things with children, right?
Yeah. And I enjoy that.
And I can still be. I'm terrible at many things.
But it's your own children. You are there.
They are your biggest, biggest fans.
Yeah. So easy to have a fan club.
Yeah. That I would say to my previous

(01:20:48):
self, you don't have to work hard to have a fan club.
You can just have children, you know, And they're just there.
Vicari, you look so pretty. This is so nice.
The food is always nice. It's not really.
All of this is just from their imagination.
Yeah. So it's.
Yeah, yeah. And finally, if there was one

(01:21:11):
piece of advice or insight that you'd like to share with the
parents listening to us right now, what would that be?
Don't let go of yourself. Focus on yourself.
Make yourself better as a as an individual, as a human being, as

(01:21:33):
also an accomplished person. So focus on your strengths, who
you are, how you can do better. Children will follow.
Most of the times you see parents focusing so much on the
children you know. You know good and bad both ways,
because then the children's problems and follies become

(01:21:56):
magnified. Yeah, and you don't see yours.
You did not do actually study and you are now bothering your
child. You are not currently also
studying anything then why do you want your child to kill like
I would do kill so I'd realise that I'm not going to be the
mother who sits on the swimming pool side and waiting for the

(01:22:20):
children. I will get in.
I was petrified of water. I learnt swimming after they
were born. Wow.
I do cycling with them after so I do a lot of things with them
which I didn't do as a non parent.

(01:22:42):
So as a parent I'm more accomplished as the person.
They have taught me all this. I was petrified of dogs for
example, and they love dogs. I am OK with dogs now.
I can sit around dogs. Dogs come to me and I'm like ha,
as if it's the most natural thing It is.
It is astounding that I can manage that and that is because

(01:23:06):
they taught me so. I used to always say we should
bring our parents up nicely. They should be brought up nicely
along with us. Otherwise when we fall in love
with whatever outsiders, parentsare going to create such a rakas
me jam de dungi Arikaiko, you did not raise your parents

(01:23:26):
nicely. You created 2 personas of
yourself. You split it, you were outside
something else and at home something else and so parents
could not understand your growth.
Don't do that with your children.
Don't create like A2 persona kind of thing.
They always present and always whatever mother you say buzz

(01:23:47):
off, I am now tired or you know or talk to them and say Baba
after this time I am tired. You know that to just like your
bad days, my bad, bad days, you know now Mama needs whatever.
So mine which are they are constantly trying to bribe me.
They they are very funny dialogues.

(01:24:08):
What can daddy give you that we can't give you?
You don't want to know Beta, butcome sleep with us.
So for me to sleep with them, they are ready to give massages.
We will do you massage. So I have migraine and headaches
and which is obviously far more than the children are around.

(01:24:31):
So they are constantly offering me massages.
And we have this night time ritual of all of us, three of us
together in which we can talk, we will tell stories.
I have to go to one side, then Ihave to go to other side, then
we have to sing. They will sing.
So we have a lot of like, you know, night time, half an hour

(01:24:51):
after lights off, we have all ofthis drama going on and we all
cherish that time together. So we have a lot of things that
I feel I learnt with the children.
So don't. So focus on yourself is not a
selfish advice. When it is, it must be selfish.

(01:25:12):
Selfless love does not work because if you let go of
yourself, there is nothing to actually love.
What will the love back? There is nothing left.
But focus on yourself is important for yourself and your
family. Make yourself a better person is
important because if you are talking badly to people and then
saying and they can see that youare actually lying to whoever

(01:25:34):
and then you're saying hamesha jutt sachi bhullahi kabhi juttne
bhullah, it will not work right.So I mean, what is it that I
must be as a person for for being a parent to a child?
If I I think of that which I didn't think as a non parent,

(01:25:54):
you're saying I was not so responsible towards my actions
and though I was a politically conscious feminist, etcetera,
anti caste, you know, identity politics, all kinds of things
that I write on. But now I do feel am I someone

(01:26:16):
that is worthy of my children and their respect and what do I
do to do that? So when things have come my way,
I have also felt that, you know,someone said whatever I was
supposed to add an option of apologies.
They do yeah, Joby. And I thought the world is
watching me and my children will, you know, they will not

(01:26:40):
judge me, but though they are watching me and standing
steadfast is important in this kind of a thing.
And the cost of ideology and my beliefs and value systems must
be paid. Otherwise it's so easy to talk.
So then when will I do that? When the when the time came, I
didn't do it. Fear my Bolti Riley, I say Kaise

(01:27:03):
Hoga. So all of that.
I think being a mother made me so people said Ulta, you know
how you have to be careful and don't end up in jail.
Yes, nobody wants to end up in jail.
But on the other hand, what is the principle that I will give
to my children? That a small thing and that you

(01:27:32):
know I bowed so easily so that Ithink is a is a principle as
well of parenting. I mean I'm putting everything
that I believe in parenting. It's a great poem what politics
is now parenting. This is easy I will do this it
will be non controversial. I will only be writing for

(01:27:54):
parenting column and. Then.
Yeah, it is such a pleasure to talk to you because as a as a
person who has actually doing interview, you're non
obstructive and yet very perceptive.
And so you lead your you know, it's like a conversation, but I

(01:28:16):
did a monologue. I didn't let you speak.
No, but there a facial experience.
Everything but you covered everything that I wanted to talk
to you about and more. And you know, you shared your
story with such honesty and wit.I am in splits like I am taking
back so much, but I am at the same time I'm in splits.

(01:28:38):
I'm sure so many of our listeners with connect with your
reflections on letting children grow with lightness and
everything that you have spoken with us.
And I, I just, I just loved thisconversation.
Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you, and to

(01:29:05):
everyone listening, to everyone listening, thank you as always
for joining me on Parenthood. If Samina's story resonated with
you, please share this episode with a friend, follow the
podcast and subscribe so you don't miss our next
conversation. Until next time, take care of
yourselves, take care of your little ones, and remember the

(01:29:27):
best stories are the ones we areliving every day.

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