April 30, 2025 • 29 mins
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Ever feel like you're drowning in caregiving responsibilities while your own needs fade silently into the background? In this raw, honest exploration of caregiver burnout, we dive deep into the often-overlooked world of self-care during life's most challenging chapters.
Caregiving demands everything from us—our time, energy, patience, and heart. When caring for someone with dementia or navigating the complex landscape of grief, we excel at fighting for others while forgetting to advocate for ourselves. The result? A dangerous pattern of self-neglect disguised as strength or duty.
This episode unpacks practical, accessible ways to incorporate genuine self-care into even the most demanding caregiving schedules. From simple emotional release strategies (screaming into pillows, aggressive baking, or coloring apps) to establishing vital boundaries with well-meaning friends, we explore how small moments of self-compassion can prevent caregiver collapse. The truth is refreshingly simple: if you become sick or burned out, you can't effectively care for your loved one.
Beyond practical tips, we tackle the deeper challenges of caregiver self-compassion—the comparison trap, the difficulty accepting help, and the powerful realization that just because you're "up, dressed, and at work" doesn't mean you're okay. Learn why telling someone they're "so strong" rarely helps and why validating the genuine difficulty of their situation often provides more comfort than solutions.
Whether you're deep in the caregiving trenches or supporting someone who is, this conversation offers perspective-shifting insights that honor both the caregiver and the cared-for. Remember: taking care of yourself isn't selfish—it's essential to sustainable caregiving.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to Patty's Place, a place where you can sit
and relax as we talk abouttopics as grief, dementia and
caregiving.
So pull up a cup of tea, a cupof coffee or a glass of wine if
that's what you need.
Tonight and today.
I thought we would talk aboutself-care and self-compassion
(00:39):
when you're caregiving and alsoas you're going through grief,
because we tend to always takecare of everybody else but it's
hard to take care of ourself, tofind that time to do what we
need to do.
But it's just as importantbecause you have to think about
it.
If you get sick, you're notfeeling good.
How do you take care of yourloved one?
(00:59):
So sometimes we hold a lot Well, I can only speak for myself,
but we hold a lot in our body,right?
We hold a lot of emotion in ourbody and sometimes you just
have to allow yourself space torelease that emotion, even in a
healthy way.
Maybe you're just having a dayand you're like I just need to
(01:21):
scream, it's just too much.
So maybe find a safe place toscream, maybe scream into your
pillow.
If that's what you need to do,you might feel better.
Maybe for some people, theyneed to go exercise.
Whether you go for a run, awalk in the pool, you take a
class.
Maybe that helps you.
Maybe it's listening to somemusic that can help you release.
(01:46):
Maybe it's listening to a bunchof sad, sad songs and you cry,
you know.
Or maybe you're listening to alot of angry music and it makes
you feel better because you justneed to get that out with it.
You know, maybe you need topunch a pillow or play with some
Play-Doh over and over and overagain.
Or maybe you need to punch apillow or play with some
playdough over and over and overagain.
Or maybe you need to bakesomething and you take out the
(02:07):
rolling pin and you smash thingsand you're rolling out.
Get all your aggression out.
Maybe that's what you need todo.
When it makes you feel better,maybe you want to write it out.
Maybe that makes you feelbetter.
You can go ahead and write out.
Maybe you journal or you justwrite out how you're feeling in
that moment.
Journal or you just write outhow you're feeling in that
(02:28):
moment.
Maybe for you, you want to draw.
You know it helps you, itrelaxes you.
You draw, you know there's alot of drawing apps or there's
coloring apps.
Maybe that's what makes youfeel better.
Sometimes I would come home fromafter seeing my mom and I
literally would take my iPad andI would play games and I would
color, because I just needed tojust shut down.
I couldn't think, I just didn'twant to think and I'd put the
(02:50):
TV on and that's what I would do.
Next thing I knew an hour hadgone by and I had spent an hour
on the iPad playing Candy Crushand coloring, you know.
But it made me feel better andmaybe, maybe again, like, maybe
it's something you just needcomfort from, maybe it's
something low energy or you justneed low brain power for a
(03:12):
while.
Like I said, listening to musicor even nature sounds.
I know for me sometimes that'show I, you know, I get I'd have
a day and I'd go see her and I'dcome home and I'd try to relax
or try to do what I needed to do, and then it'd be time for me
to go to bed and then there I'dbe and all these things would
(03:33):
rush through my head and Icouldn't sleep.
And I found, for me, naturesounds could always make me go
to sleep.
For me, it was the rain soundsfor it, so that might help.
You might find some sounds thatjust help you relax and the
rain sounds for it, so thatmight help.
You might find some sounds thatjust help you relax and help
you sleep with it.
Or you know what?
Maybe you need to go in andtake a hot shower.
(03:54):
Maybe that helps you in themorning or in the evening, or
maybe at night.
You just need to say you knowwhat, I'm going in and I'm
taking a nice bath and I justneed to relax and leave me alone
for a minute.
It's hard when you're caregiving, because you're always thinking
, you're always doing, you'realways trying to take care of
that person.
So you've got your own life totake care of.
(04:16):
But then you're always thinkingI have doctor's appointments to
schedule for this person, Ihave prescriptions I need to
take care of.
You know, are they missingdiapers?
Are they missing pads?
You know, what is it that Ineed?
Maybe I need to go get them newclothes.
Do I need to order them aspecial chair?
What about a walker?
You're thinking of all thesethings that you need to do, and
(04:38):
you also have to take care ofyourself.
What about your prescriptions,or your doctor's appointments,
or your appointments?
Or maybe you're also stilltaking care of kids and you have
all of their issues that youneed to take care of.
So it's a lot.
So maybe you say you know whata half hour, 45 minutes I'm
going to take a bath and I don'tcare, don't bother me.
(05:05):
But it's hard when you'recaregiving because you're always
thinking about the other personand everything else and you get
really tired.
For some people it might bethat they can't sleep.
Other people, all they can dois sleep and maybe that's okay.
Maybe you just find a reallycomfy chair or your bed.
Maybe you go up there early tobed or you sit in the chair and
you're like I'm putting on TV,I'm putting on Netflix, I don't
know what I'm watching and youfall asleep and maybe that's
(05:25):
what you need for that hour.
And again, maybe that's whereyou watch a show or a movie.
Or you know you scroll andyou're watching YouTube or that,
or TikTok or Instagram, and youjust want to do that.
Maybe you find, you know, maybefor you, watching dog videos
makes you happy.
You know there's so many ofthose Like for me.
(05:46):
Watching dog videos makes youhappy.
You know there's so many ofthose Like for me.
That makes me laugh.
That always makes me happy.
I can find the dog videos andit makes me smile, you know,
because I love dogs or somethinglike that.
Or you know, maybe you're justlike I can't.
I just can't watch anythingthat has to do with grief or
anything that's sad, and that'sokay.
I just can't watch anythingthat has to do with grief or
(06:07):
anything that's sad, and that'sokay.
Maybe that's when you put onthose comforting shows like
Friends or Big Bang Theory orany show that makes you laugh or
cry, or just you find comfortin it.
You know, maybe it's an oldshow, maybe it's a new show, and
you just put them on and maybeyou fall asleep to it, but you
just feel that comfort Becauseeven in those half hour you need
that.
You need to just blockeverything out and just rest for
(06:30):
a little bit.
Make sure you drink a lot ofwater and you stay hydrated.
It sounds crazy, but sometimeswhen you're running, running,
running, trying to take care ofthe person whether they're
living with you or they're in afacility you're running.
You have to take care ofyourself, and sometimes you're
so tired you're like oh, I'llstop at Starbucks, I'll stop at
(06:50):
Dunkin', I'll get that icedcoffee, I'll be okay, I keep
running, running, running.
But your body needs fluids, soit's important that you drink
fluids and stretch too.
That might sound crazy too.
You're like, no, I'm running, Igot to do this, I got to do
that.
But sometimes taking those 10minutes just to stretch your
body can help you as well.
And for some people, when we'rein the middle of grief or when
(07:11):
we're in the middle ofcaregiving, we forget to eat,
like we don't even check in withourselves Are we hungry?
It's important that you eat too, because maybe you're so busy
and so worried about making surethat your loved one eats.
I know for a long time it wouldbe with my mom.
We would be checking like didshe eat anything?
At the end, I would go toDunkin Donuts every morning
(07:33):
because she would eat the plaindonut with the just the icing
chocolate or strawberry orvanilla with the sprinkles, and
she would eat it, and at thatpoint I didn't care if it was
high calorie.
At least it was something thatshe ate.
You know, my dad and I would goto the store and sometimes we'd
stand in the store and be likeokay, maybe she'll eat this,
maybe she'll eat that.
So it's important that you eattoo for it, and sometimes we
(07:59):
find that we we navigate towardsthat comfort food, and that's
okay too.
You know, when you're goingthrough taking care of your
loved one or your grief,sometimes you need that ice
cream, or you need that cupcakeor cookie or that piece of candy
that makes you feel better, andthat's okay.
(08:21):
You know, sometimes you justneed that for it and maybe you
find yourself finding somecomforting rituals.
Or maybe it's a spiritualpractice, maybe it's meditation
or breathing exercises that youcan learn, and just maybe that's
what you do when you're feelingoverwhelmed in the middle of
everything.
(08:41):
Maybe you take a minute and youjust breathe.
It sounds crazy, but sometimesif you just sit there and you
just let yourself have some deepbreaths and you can feel a
little bit better.
For some people, scents alsomakes you feel better.
Some people, like I'm going tolight a candle or incense and
(09:02):
maybe you're going to diffusesome essential oils, and those
make you feel better.
For that, you know, maybe thoseare the little things that you
do.
Just find something.
I know sometimes for me,especially at night, if I'm
having a hard time sleeping withit, I'll grab the blanket that
was on my mom.
She had the blanket on her lastweek and sometimes I just grab
(09:28):
it and I hold it at nightbecause it just makes me feel
close to her.
Maybe there's a blanket, apiece of clothing or something
that you have with it.
And then also, you need to makesure that you think about
compassionate thoughts, thinkabout things that make you feel
better and be able to say youknow, I did this today and
(09:48):
that's okay.
Or maybe you say, you know what?
I didn't get it all done today,and that's okay.
I have a hard time with thatone, because I'm always thinking
about, yeah, but I should havedone this and I should have done
that and I should have beendoing this and that.
And it's hard because we'realways thinking I should just
keep doing things, but it isn'talways.
Sometimes you have to take thatminute and relax with things
(10:12):
and, I think too, also withcompassion, self-compassion.
I think, whether we're goingthrough caregiving or we're
going through grief, I thinkthat there are some things that
we need to think about forourself, because don't you find
yourself sometimes you compareyour traumas or your grief with
people in the caregiving?
You know, and I think we needto it's hard not to, especially
(10:37):
if you have friends that aregoing through similar things.
It's hard to not compare it,but you shouldn't, because
everybody's experience isdifferent.
Everybody experiences griefdifferently.
Everybody experiencescaregiving differently.
There are a lot of similarities, but we shouldn't compare it.
So maybe, when you're talkingto your friends, ask the
(11:00):
questions so you can connect byshowing different curiosity
about your experience instead ofcomparing them, because, again,
there are going to be thingsthat are similar but there's
going to be things that aredifferent.
I also think, too, we don't needto always fact check or correct
.
You know, especially when we'recaregiving and we're in the
(11:21):
middle of things and we're inthe middle of grief, don't you
find yourself sometimes thatyour timelines get messed up
Like you think it happened, youknow, two months ago and maybe
it was two years ago with it?
It's important when you'retalking, especially with other
people, and hopefully you cansay to them too, for yourself,
that they respect the experience.
(11:42):
It's not so important who'scorrect, and that's hard
sometimes right, because we'relistening and people jump in and
they want to tell you oh no,this is what you're supposed to
do, this is how it happened.
It's hard, and sometimes peoplejust need to talk with it.
So when you're trying to dealwith your grieving friend, or
(12:03):
even yourself or other familymembers, and that sometimes it's
just let them be, it's not soimportant, sometimes who's right
.
But I also think too, you,sometimes I think that for
ourself, whether we'recaregiving or we're going
through grief, I know, sometimesI think I minimize my own
thoughts or my own situation andI think, oh, it's not that bad
(12:30):
or it wasn't that bad, eventhough it really was.
And I also think too, it'simportant to not minimize other
people's grief too.
You know, maybe you think, ohmy God, can't they just stop?
You know this is so out ofproportion.
But we have to remembereverybody's caregiving
experience is their own andeverybody's grief is their own.
(12:50):
So it doesn't really matterwhat you think about the other
person, what they're goingthrough.
You shouldn't minimize it.
This is what they're feeling,this is what they're going
through.
And so being again it's alsoself-compassion.
It's also knowing, too, to beable to set your boundaries and
be able to say you know what?
Okay, I need to change thesubject, because maybe you're
(13:13):
not ready to talk about it whenyou're with your friends.
That's self-compassion too.
Maybe you know you need tochange the subject with it and
don't minimize and think thatyou know you're not important
(13:38):
compliments.
You know, when someone's inpain Just because if you're in
pain, when you're caregiving andyou're going through grief and
someone's like, yeah, but you'reso strong, you're so wonderful,
that doesn't really help thatperson.
That's not really.
You know, when you're trying tobe self-compassionate to
yourself, it's hard because youdon't feel that way and then
someone's telling you you'rejust wonderful and you think, no
(13:59):
, I'm not.
Or they tell you how strong youare and you think, no, I'm not.
I don't even know what strongis, and sometimes that would
make me mad.
When people are like you're sostrong, I'm like, what does that
even mean?
So I think that you need toalso, when you're talking with
(14:21):
somebody, say I don't know whatstrong means.
When that's great, you thinkI'm wonderful.
But right now, in this moment, Idon't feel that I'm going
through too much, and I'verealized too, through this
caregiving experience and grief,that people really don't know
how to talk to each other aboutthese things.
We have these set things thatwe say and it's hard, it's just
(14:42):
really hard, and I think whatthat, too, is.
Some people just think, oh, Ijust need to be your cheerleader
and tell you it's going to beokay and you're going to get
through it.
Well, maybe in that moment youdon't know if you're gonna make
it.
Maybe you feel like I can't dothis anymore, I'm failing, I
just can't do it.
(15:04):
And for me, what I found is whensomeone said it's okay, yeah,
this situation really sucks,this is terrible.
It's okay, yeah, this situationreally sucks, this is terrible,
you're going through a reallydifficult situation.
It made me feel so much betterthan someone cheering me on and
saying you can do this andyou're strong and you can handle
(15:26):
it all, because maybe in thatmoment you don't feel like you
can handle it.
So, being compassionate to yourfriends and being compassionate
to yourself, to be able to saythis is really hard and this is
really difficult and I don'tknow how I'm going to get
through it.
It's okay to feel that for afew minutes or even for a day,
(15:47):
because when you acknowledge itand you sit in that feeling for
a little while, you start tofeel a little better, like, okay
, all right, this is hard, thisis difficult, but all right, I
can do this.
One thing I can get this.
One thing, you know.
And the other thing I found toowith self-compassion, especially
in caregiving and things it'shard to talk about later.
(16:10):
It's hard, you know people wantto make plans with you.
Oh, what about this or whatabout that?
Well, your life is on hold inso many different ways because
you want to say, sure, I canmeet you, you know, next week,
but maybe you don't know howyour loved one's going to feel
next week, or maybe you don'tknow how you're going to feel
next week, so it's hard to talkabout later.
(16:30):
We're kind of always in thepresent moment, even when we
don't want to be, but we kind ofare.
And that's okay, you know, it'sreally okay.
You know, if you tell somebodysay I can make tentative plans
with you, provide it.
You know, xyz is, you know,okay, or I'm feeling okay, I can
(16:52):
do it.
Because when you're caregivingthings change all the time.
Sometimes they change at thelast minute.
Sometimes you thinkeverything's going okay and then
boom, something happens.
I think too it's hard.
We don't want to always telleverybody well, this worked for
(17:12):
me because it might not work forthe other person.
So I think that we have tolearn to trust that we figure
out what works for us withself-care and also with our
friends what works for them whenit comes to self-care.
Cause it's hard, you know,cause we want to share and we
want to be like, oh, this workedfor me.
But just cause it worked for medoesn't mean it'll work for you
(17:36):
with it, you know, I have foundthat I try really hard.
You know, when people ask meabout stuff, I tell them about
my experience.
What worked with you know, withme and with my mom and with the
help that we got.
You know, for me we brought inhospice and serious illness care
(17:57):
and it was wonderful, it wasabsolutely wonderful.
I still can't tell you how muchhelp that they brought in and a
lot of people don't want to dothat.
They think they can do it, theycan handle it, and it's not so
much about that you can't handleit, but at a certain point you
need help.
And I know a lot of peopledon't want to do it and that's
(18:20):
okay, that's their choice withit.
But I have found that whenpeople go, oh, let me look into
this, and then they do do it,they're like, oh, my God, this
was such a relief, so much thatI have this support and I have
this help, not only for my lovedone but for me.
And if people choose not to,that's okay too.
But it's hard, because sometimesyou want to tell people, hey,
(18:43):
this will work, and you justhave to step back if you know
that person's not going to dothat.
I also think, too, that goesalong with a lot of times when,
especially when you're in themiddle of caregiving or you are
in the middle of grief, yourfriends and your family want to
give you solutions, andsometimes don't you just feel
like you just want to be like,hey, I just need to vent, I just
(19:06):
need to say this is what'sgoing on, and it's hard.
I don't necessarily want you totell me to do ABC and all these
things that I can do.
I don't want a solution, I justneed to vent.
And so I think that the bestthing we can do is make sure
that the person wants you to get.
They want that consent, thatthey want that advice.
(19:29):
Because it's hard when you seepeople struggling, you want to
fix it for them.
But everybody's different, evenif you know in the back of your
mind, hey, if they do X, y, z,this will work.
But every situation isdifferent and it's really hard
and that's part of selfcompassion when you're
caregiving and when you're goingthrough grief for yourself and
(19:53):
also for everybody else, it'sjust so hard, you know, to think
about yourself because we'realways thinking about other
people, especially if we are acaregiver.
Because we're always thinkingabout other people, especially
if we are a caregiver, we'realways thinking about how we can
help the other people andeveryone else kind of just goes.
You know you don't think aboutyourself anymore.
(20:14):
You think you're thinking Ineed to do this and I need to do
that.
And it's really hard to stepback and give yourself those
five, 10 minutes.
You know everyone thinks.
You know, oh, self-care it's.
You know I'm going to go andI'm going to get a massage and
I'm going to go through allthese other things.
But it doesn't necessarily meanit's a big massage or things
(20:39):
like that.
Sometimes we find too that wethink that if we just keep
moving, we just keep working,working, working, staying busy,
that that's how we cope.
But really I mean you can dothat, but then it always comes
back to you.
The one thing I have learned isthat you really can't run from
your feelings.
(20:59):
They're going to come back toyou one way or another with it.
So a lot of times it's justimportant for you to find that
safe place to be able to say howyou feel.
And sometimes a safe place isfinding a person that you can
talk to, someone who's going tolisten to you and not judge you
(21:21):
and not, you know, just tell youwhat to do Because, again,
sometimes you just need to cry,Sometimes you just need to
scream, you need to just say Ican't do this.
And for those few minutes, thosefew hours, it's okay to say I
can't do this right now, becauseyou're trying to make sense of
(21:43):
what your loss is.
You're trying to stay connectedto your loved one and it's just
hard.
It's just really, really hard,no matter how you look at it,
with it.
And you have to figure out too.
You have to figure out whatself-care and self-compassion is
(22:03):
.
Thinking about your triggers too, and I think those are really
hard to figure out as well, andwe don't always think about
those as self-care.
I have a hard time with that.
I don't always think about thatas my self-care, but I'm slowly
beginning to realize thattriggers are self-care and what
(22:25):
I mean.
You know, a trigger could besomething where, for me it's
hard when some people starttalking about maybe certain
situations in their life ordiscussing some of their grief
or situations in their grief.
Sometimes I know, oh, this isgoing to make me feel way too
raw, I'm going to be right thereand this isn't the place that I
(22:48):
need to think about thosethings.
And it's hard to either try tochange the subject or to say to
someone, hey, I can't talk aboutthis right now.
It doesn't mean you can nevertalk about it, it just means in
that moment you just you can't.
You know, and those are hard,so it's hard to figure out what
(23:10):
you can do to change thosetriggers, to help you with
self-compassion, I think for mesometimes, when I'm with other
people, it's hard when othersstart talking about things and
they go on and on and on aboutstuff and I don't always know
how to change the subject or toget up and go in another room.
(23:31):
For me I'm like, oh, is there adog?
I'll go play with the dog.
Or to say to even people whoare close to me to be able to
say I can't do this, I just Ican't, I don't want to talk
about this right now and yougoing on about something else is
making me I just can't, becauseI have found that most people
(23:54):
don't realize it.
You know, everyone thinks abouttheir own feelings and they
don't mean it intentionally,they just they think, oh, you
seem like you're okay, sotherefore you must be okay.
And just because I always sayjust because I'm up and dressed
doesn't mean I'm okay.
Just because I'm up, dressedand at work doesn't mean I'm
(24:14):
okay.
It just means I'm trying to getthrough the day right now.
I'm trying to get through theday right now and I have found
that a lot as I was caregivingfor my mom and as I'm going
through this grief process thatsome days I'm like, yep, I'm
surviving, but doesn't alwaysmean I'm okay.
It just means I'm gettingthrough the day.
(24:35):
You know, and I try to doself-care things I try Some days
I'm better at it than othersand I think that's part of
self-care too to be able to sayyou know what, it's okay.
I have a hard time.
I always think, oh well, theweekends I should be doing this,
this, this and this, and someweekends I just don't have the
(24:55):
energy to do it and I have ahard time being able to give
myself that grace to say it'sokay, it'll get done.
It's not.
You know, it's not the end ofthe world if I didn't, you know,
get this clean today.
But it's hard because we wantto keep doing and pushing and I
have a hard time putting myfeelings and my needs first.
(25:16):
I have a really hard time withthat, or telling people what I
need.
I'm great at taking care ofother people and put in,
advocating and fighting fortheir needs, but I have a really
hard time fighting for myselfwith it.
So, as we're talking aboutself-care and self-compassion in
caregiving and in grief, thinkabout little different things,
(25:38):
like you said, like I said, fromtaking a break, you know, maybe
you start a hobby.
Maybe it's a new hobby, maybeit's an old hobby.
Maybe you start to do puzzles,you know.
Or you do art or woodworking,or maybe you just you know what.
I'm just going to find somegood books and I'm going to read
.
Maybe they're short, maybethey're long, that's what I'm
going to do.
Or watch TV.
(25:58):
You find some good movies or TVshows.
That's what you want to do.
I know for me, as it starts toget nice out, I like to be able
to be outside, sit out on mypatio or just enjoy the nice
weather.
Sometimes that just taking afew minutes sitting out in the
nice weather helps me feelingthe sun, those few few minutes
(26:19):
helps me regenerate and feellike, okay, it's not so bad, I
can do this with it, you know.
And so maybe that's what youneed.
Maybe those are those littlethings.
So I think for today, I thinkwhat's the most important is to
know that self-care is just asimportant as taking care of your
(26:40):
loved one.
As you're going throughcaregiving and as you're
grieving, it's important to takecare of yourself, because if
you get sick, you can't takecare of your loved one.
That's what's most important.
And it's also okay to ask forhelp and to say maybe you say,
hey, can you come over and sitwith your loved one for a little
(27:04):
while?
Maybe you just need to take anap, maybe that's what you need.
Or maybe you just need to goshopping for yourself, maybe
that's what's going to make youhappy.
It's okay to ask, and I thinksometimes we stress ourself out
and we think I can do it, I canhandle it, it's all you know.
I can do this.
(27:25):
But sometimes you need thoselittle hours or minutes to
yourself to kind of get yourselfre-energized to be able to take
care of the rest, becausesometimes when you're going
through caregiving you don'tknow how long it's going to be
and even grief, grief is ongoing.
It's kind of, in a way,never-ending.
(27:47):
It just kind of ebbs and flowswith it and it's really okay to
ask for help and it's okay totry to take care of yourself,
even if it's just for a fewminutes on one day and maybe for
a few hours another day.
You'd be surprised how muchthat helps you, taking those few
minutes, that little break, tobe able to say I need that, I
(28:10):
needed to take care of myself.
But I know as caregivers wedon't always want to do that.
But it's important becauseyou're important too, not just
your loved one, for that.
So today I thought that's whatwe talk about here on Patty's
Place taking care of ourselvesas we care, give as we go
(28:31):
through grief.
It's hard, but it's alsoimportant and there's so many
little things and little waysthat we can do this.
So I hope that these littlethings have helped as we talk
about caregiving and self-care.
Hopefully that has helped alittle bit for you today.
Please reach out to me, go aheadand send me some emails or
comment on my page.
I'd love to hear from you orany topics and things like that
(28:54):
that you'd like to hear, as wecontinue on talking about grief
and dementia and caregivingright here on Patty's Place.
So please reach out to me.
I always look forward.
I love to interact with you andhear what you are interested in
and what's going on, and ifthis is helping, I really would
appreciate that.
So please reach out on my page,send me an email or a comment.
(29:15):
I'd love to hear from you aswell.
So we will continue on andwe'll continue on talking about
grief and dementia andcaregiving right here on Patty's
Place.
So I hope you enjoyed your cupof coffee, your cup of tea, or
maybe you just needed wine forthe day here, right here on
Patty's Place, and I will talkto you next time right here on
(29:36):
Patty's Place.
Welcome to Patty's Place, a place where you can sit
and relax as we talk abouttopics as grief, dementia and
caregiving.
So pull up a cup of tea, a cupof coffee or a glass of wine if
that's what you need.
Tonight and today.
I thought we would talk aboutself-care and self-compassion
(00:39):
when you're caregiving and alsoas you're going through grief,
because we tend to always takecare of everybody else but it's
hard to take care of ourself, tofind that time to do what we
need to do.
But it's just as importantbecause you have to think about
it.
If you get sick, you're notfeeling good.
How do you take care of yourloved one?
(00:59):
So sometimes we hold a lot Well, I can only speak for myself,
but we hold a lot in our body,right?
We hold a lot of emotion in ourbody and sometimes you just
have to allow yourself space torelease that emotion, even in a
healthy way.
Maybe you're just having a dayand you're like I just need to
(01:21):
scream, it's just too much.
So maybe find a safe place toscream, maybe scream into your
pillow.
If that's what you need to do,you might feel better.
Maybe for some people, theyneed to go exercise.
Whether you go for a run, awalk in the pool, you take a
class.
Maybe that helps you.
Maybe it's listening to somemusic that can help you release.
(01:46):
Maybe it's listening to a bunchof sad, sad songs and you cry,
you know.
Or maybe you're listening to alot of angry music and it makes
you feel better because you justneed to get that out with it.
You know, maybe you need topunch a pillow or play with some
Play-Doh over and over and overagain.
Or maybe you need to punch apillow or play with some
playdough over and over and overagain.
Or maybe you need to bakesomething and you take out the
(02:07):
rolling pin and you smash thingsand you're rolling out.
Get all your aggression out.
Maybe that's what you need todo.
When it makes you feel better,maybe you want to write it out.
Maybe that makes you feelbetter.
You can go ahead and write out.
Maybe you journal or you justwrite out how you're feeling in
that moment.
Journal or you just write outhow you're feeling in that
(02:28):
moment.
Maybe for you, you want to draw.
You know it helps you, itrelaxes you.
You draw, you know there's alot of drawing apps or there's
coloring apps.
Maybe that's what makes youfeel better.
Sometimes I would come home fromafter seeing my mom and I
literally would take my iPad andI would play games and I would
color, because I just needed tojust shut down.
I couldn't think, I just didn'twant to think and I'd put the
(02:50):
TV on and that's what I would do.
Next thing I knew an hour hadgone by and I had spent an hour
on the iPad playing Candy Crushand coloring, you know.
But it made me feel better andmaybe, maybe again, like, maybe
it's something you just needcomfort from, maybe it's
something low energy or you justneed low brain power for a
(03:12):
while.
Like I said, listening to musicor even nature sounds.
I know for me sometimes that'show I, you know, I get I'd have
a day and I'd go see her and I'dcome home and I'd try to relax
or try to do what I needed to do, and then it'd be time for me
to go to bed and then there I'dbe and all these things would
(03:33):
rush through my head and Icouldn't sleep.
And I found, for me, naturesounds could always make me go
to sleep.
For me, it was the rain soundsfor it, so that might help.
You might find some sounds thatjust help you relax and the
rain sounds for it, so thatmight help.
You might find some sounds thatjust help you relax and help
you sleep with it.
Or you know what?
Maybe you need to go in andtake a hot shower.
(03:54):
Maybe that helps you in themorning or in the evening, or
maybe at night.
You just need to say you knowwhat, I'm going in and I'm
taking a nice bath and I justneed to relax and leave me alone
for a minute.
It's hard when you're caregiving, because you're always thinking
, you're always doing, you'realways trying to take care of
that person.
So you've got your own life totake care of.
(04:16):
But then you're always thinkingI have doctor's appointments to
schedule for this person, Ihave prescriptions I need to
take care of.
You know, are they missingdiapers?
Are they missing pads?
You know, what is it that Ineed?
Maybe I need to go get them newclothes.
Do I need to order them aspecial chair?
What about a walker?
You're thinking of all thesethings that you need to do, and
(04:38):
you also have to take care ofyourself.
What about your prescriptions,or your doctor's appointments,
or your appointments?
Or maybe you're also stilltaking care of kids and you have
all of their issues that youneed to take care of.
So it's a lot.
So maybe you say you know whata half hour, 45 minutes I'm
going to take a bath and I don'tcare, don't bother me.
(05:05):
But it's hard when you'recaregiving because you're always
thinking about the other personand everything else and you get
really tired.
For some people it might bethat they can't sleep.
Other people, all they can dois sleep and maybe that's okay.
Maybe you just find a reallycomfy chair or your bed.
Maybe you go up there early tobed or you sit in the chair and
you're like I'm putting on TV,I'm putting on Netflix, I don't
know what I'm watching and youfall asleep and maybe that's
(05:25):
what you need for that hour.
And again, maybe that's whereyou watch a show or a movie.
Or you know you scroll andyou're watching YouTube or that,
or TikTok or Instagram, and youjust want to do that.
Maybe you find, you know, maybefor you, watching dog videos
makes you happy.
You know there's so many ofthose Like for me.
(05:46):
Watching dog videos makes youhappy.
You know there's so many ofthose Like for me.
That makes me laugh.
That always makes me happy.
I can find the dog videos andit makes me smile, you know,
because I love dogs or somethinglike that.
Or you know, maybe you're justlike I can't.
I just can't watch anythingthat has to do with grief or
anything that's sad, and that'sokay.
I just can't watch anythingthat has to do with grief or
(06:07):
anything that's sad, and that'sokay.
Maybe that's when you put onthose comforting shows like
Friends or Big Bang Theory orany show that makes you laugh or
cry, or just you find comfortin it.
You know, maybe it's an oldshow, maybe it's a new show, and
you just put them on and maybeyou fall asleep to it, but you
just feel that comfort Becauseeven in those half hour you need
that.
You need to just blockeverything out and just rest for
(06:30):
a little bit.
Make sure you drink a lot ofwater and you stay hydrated.
It sounds crazy, but sometimeswhen you're running, running,
running, trying to take care ofthe person whether they're
living with you or they're in afacility you're running.
You have to take care ofyourself, and sometimes you're
so tired you're like oh, I'llstop at Starbucks, I'll stop at
(06:50):
Dunkin', I'll get that icedcoffee, I'll be okay, I keep
running, running, running.
But your body needs fluids, soit's important that you drink
fluids and stretch too.
That might sound crazy too.
You're like, no, I'm running, Igot to do this, I got to do
that.
But sometimes taking those 10minutes just to stretch your
body can help you as well.
And for some people, when we'rein the middle of grief or when
(07:11):
we're in the middle ofcaregiving, we forget to eat,
like we don't even check in withourselves Are we hungry?
It's important that you eat too, because maybe you're so busy
and so worried about making surethat your loved one eats.
I know for a long time it wouldbe with my mom.
We would be checking like didshe eat anything?
At the end, I would go toDunkin Donuts every morning
(07:33):
because she would eat the plaindonut with the just the icing
chocolate or strawberry orvanilla with the sprinkles, and
she would eat it, and at thatpoint I didn't care if it was
high calorie.
At least it was something thatshe ate.
You know, my dad and I would goto the store and sometimes we'd
stand in the store and be likeokay, maybe she'll eat this,
maybe she'll eat that.
So it's important that you eattoo for it, and sometimes we
(07:59):
find that we we navigate towardsthat comfort food, and that's
okay too.
You know, when you're goingthrough taking care of your
loved one or your grief,sometimes you need that ice
cream, or you need that cupcakeor cookie or that piece of candy
that makes you feel better, andthat's okay.
(08:21):
You know, sometimes you justneed that for it and maybe you
find yourself finding somecomforting rituals.
Or maybe it's a spiritualpractice, maybe it's meditation
or breathing exercises that youcan learn, and just maybe that's
what you do when you're feelingoverwhelmed in the middle of
everything.
(08:41):
Maybe you take a minute and youjust breathe.
It sounds crazy, but sometimesif you just sit there and you
just let yourself have some deepbreaths and you can feel a
little bit better.
For some people, scents alsomakes you feel better.
Some people, like I'm going tolight a candle or incense and
(09:02):
maybe you're going to diffusesome essential oils, and those
make you feel better.
For that, you know, maybe thoseare the little things that you
do.
Just find something.
I know sometimes for me,especially at night, if I'm
having a hard time sleeping withit, I'll grab the blanket that
was on my mom.
She had the blanket on her lastweek and sometimes I just grab
(09:28):
it and I hold it at nightbecause it just makes me feel
close to her.
Maybe there's a blanket, apiece of clothing or something
that you have with it.
And then also, you need to makesure that you think about
compassionate thoughts, thinkabout things that make you feel
better and be able to say youknow, I did this today and
(09:48):
that's okay.
Or maybe you say, you know what?
I didn't get it all done today,and that's okay.
I have a hard time with thatone, because I'm always thinking
about, yeah, but I should havedone this and I should have done
that and I should have beendoing this and that.
And it's hard because we'realways thinking I should just
keep doing things, but it isn'talways.
Sometimes you have to take thatminute and relax with things
(10:12):
and, I think too, also withcompassion, self-compassion.
I think, whether we're goingthrough caregiving or we're
going through grief, I thinkthat there are some things that
we need to think about forourself, because don't you find
yourself sometimes you compareyour traumas or your grief with
people in the caregiving?
You know, and I think we needto it's hard not to, especially
(10:37):
if you have friends that aregoing through similar things.
It's hard to not compare it,but you shouldn't, because
everybody's experience isdifferent.
Everybody experiences griefdifferently.
Everybody experiencescaregiving differently.
There are a lot of similarities, but we shouldn't compare it.
So maybe, when you're talkingto your friends, ask the
(11:00):
questions so you can connect byshowing different curiosity
about your experience instead ofcomparing them, because, again,
there are going to be thingsthat are similar but there's
going to be things that aredifferent.
I also think, too, we don't needto always fact check or correct
.
You know, especially when we'recaregiving and we're in the
(11:21):
middle of things and we're inthe middle of grief, don't you
find yourself sometimes thatyour timelines get messed up
Like you think it happened, youknow, two months ago and maybe
it was two years ago with it?
It's important when you'retalking, especially with other
people, and hopefully you cansay to them too, for yourself,
that they respect the experience.
(11:42):
It's not so important who'scorrect, and that's hard
sometimes right, because we'relistening and people jump in and
they want to tell you oh no,this is what you're supposed to
do, this is how it happened.
It's hard, and sometimes peoplejust need to talk with it.
So when you're trying to dealwith your grieving friend, or
(12:03):
even yourself or other familymembers, and that sometimes it's
just let them be, it's not soimportant, sometimes who's right
.
But I also think too, you,sometimes I think that for
ourself, whether we'recaregiving or we're going
through grief, I know, sometimesI think I minimize my own
thoughts or my own situation andI think, oh, it's not that bad
(12:30):
or it wasn't that bad, eventhough it really was.
And I also think too, it'simportant to not minimize other
people's grief too.
You know, maybe you think, ohmy God, can't they just stop?
You know this is so out ofproportion.
But we have to remembereverybody's caregiving
experience is their own andeverybody's grief is their own.
(12:50):
So it doesn't really matterwhat you think about the other
person, what they're goingthrough.
You shouldn't minimize it.
This is what they're feeling,this is what they're going
through.
And so being again it's alsoself-compassion.
It's also knowing, too, to beable to set your boundaries and
be able to say you know what?
Okay, I need to change thesubject, because maybe you're
(13:13):
not ready to talk about it whenyou're with your friends.
That's self-compassion too.
Maybe you know you need tochange the subject with it and
don't minimize and think thatyou know you're not important
(13:38):
compliments.
You know, when someone's inpain Just because if you're in
pain, when you're caregiving andyou're going through grief and
someone's like, yeah, but you'reso strong, you're so wonderful,
that doesn't really help thatperson.
That's not really.
You know, when you're trying tobe self-compassionate to
yourself, it's hard because youdon't feel that way and then
someone's telling you you'rejust wonderful and you think, no
(13:59):
, I'm not.
Or they tell you how strong youare and you think, no, I'm not.
I don't even know what strongis, and sometimes that would
make me mad.
When people are like you're sostrong, I'm like, what does that
even mean?
So I think that you need toalso, when you're talking with
(14:21):
somebody, say I don't know whatstrong means.
When that's great, you thinkI'm wonderful.
But right now, in this moment, Idon't feel that I'm going
through too much, and I'verealized too, through this
caregiving experience and grief,that people really don't know
how to talk to each other aboutthese things.
We have these set things thatwe say and it's hard, it's just
(14:42):
really hard, and I think whatthat, too, is.
Some people just think, oh, Ijust need to be your cheerleader
and tell you it's going to beokay and you're going to get
through it.
Well, maybe in that moment youdon't know if you're gonna make
it.
Maybe you feel like I can't dothis anymore, I'm failing, I
just can't do it.
(15:04):
And for me, what I found is whensomeone said it's okay, yeah,
this situation really sucks,this is terrible.
It's okay, yeah, this situationreally sucks, this is terrible,
you're going through a reallydifficult situation.
It made me feel so much betterthan someone cheering me on and
saying you can do this andyou're strong and you can handle
(15:26):
it all, because maybe in thatmoment you don't feel like you
can handle it.
So, being compassionate to yourfriends and being compassionate
to yourself, to be able to saythis is really hard and this is
really difficult and I don'tknow how I'm going to get
through it.
It's okay to feel that for afew minutes or even for a day,
(15:47):
because when you acknowledge itand you sit in that feeling for
a little while, you start tofeel a little better, like, okay
, all right, this is hard, thisis difficult, but all right, I
can do this.
One thing I can get this.
One thing, you know.
And the other thing I found toowith self-compassion, especially
in caregiving and things it'shard to talk about later.
(16:10):
It's hard, you know people wantto make plans with you.
Oh, what about this or whatabout that?
Well, your life is on hold inso many different ways because
you want to say, sure, I canmeet you, you know, next week,
but maybe you don't know howyour loved one's going to feel
next week, or maybe you don'tknow how you're going to feel
next week, so it's hard to talkabout later.
(16:30):
We're kind of always in thepresent moment, even when we
don't want to be, but we kind ofare.
And that's okay, you know, it'sreally okay.
You know, if you tell somebodysay I can make tentative plans
with you, provide it.
You know, xyz is, you know,okay, or I'm feeling okay, I can
(16:52):
do it.
Because when you're caregivingthings change all the time.
Sometimes they change at thelast minute.
Sometimes you thinkeverything's going okay and then
boom, something happens.
I think too it's hard.
We don't want to always telleverybody well, this worked for
(17:12):
me because it might not work forthe other person.
So I think that we have tolearn to trust that we figure
out what works for us withself-care and also with our
friends what works for them whenit comes to self-care.
Cause it's hard, you know,cause we want to share and we
want to be like, oh, this workedfor me.
But just cause it worked for medoesn't mean it'll work for you
(17:36):
with it, you know, I have foundthat I try really hard.
You know, when people ask meabout stuff, I tell them about
my experience.
What worked with you know, withme and with my mom and with the
help that we got.
You know, for me we brought inhospice and serious illness care
(17:57):
and it was wonderful, it wasabsolutely wonderful.
I still can't tell you how muchhelp that they brought in and a
lot of people don't want to dothat.
They think they can do it, theycan handle it, and it's not so
much about that you can't handleit, but at a certain point you
need help.
And I know a lot of peopledon't want to do it and that's
(18:20):
okay, that's their choice withit.
But I have found that whenpeople go, oh, let me look into
this, and then they do do it,they're like, oh, my God, this
was such a relief, so much thatI have this support and I have
this help, not only for my lovedone but for me.
And if people choose not to,that's okay too.
But it's hard, because sometimesyou want to tell people, hey,
(18:43):
this will work, and you justhave to step back if you know
that person's not going to dothat.
I also think, too, that goesalong with a lot of times when,
especially when you're in themiddle of caregiving or you are
in the middle of grief, yourfriends and your family want to
give you solutions, andsometimes don't you just feel
like you just want to be like,hey, I just need to vent, I just
(19:06):
need to say this is what'sgoing on, and it's hard.
I don't necessarily want you totell me to do ABC and all these
things that I can do.
I don't want a solution, I justneed to vent.
And so I think that the bestthing we can do is make sure
that the person wants you to get.
They want that consent, thatthey want that advice.
(19:29):
Because it's hard when you seepeople struggling, you want to
fix it for them.
But everybody's different, evenif you know in the back of your
mind, hey, if they do X, y, z,this will work.
But every situation isdifferent and it's really hard
and that's part of selfcompassion when you're
caregiving and when you're goingthrough grief for yourself and
(19:53):
also for everybody else, it'sjust so hard, you know, to think
about yourself because we'realways thinking about other
people, especially if we are acaregiver.
Because we're always thinkingabout other people, especially
if we are a caregiver, we'realways thinking about how we can
help the other people andeveryone else kind of just goes.
You know you don't think aboutyourself anymore.
(20:14):
You think you're thinking Ineed to do this and I need to do
that.
And it's really hard to stepback and give yourself those
five, 10 minutes.
You know everyone thinks.
You know, oh, self-care it's.
You know I'm going to go andI'm going to get a massage and
I'm going to go through allthese other things.
But it doesn't necessarily meanit's a big massage or things
(20:39):
like that.
Sometimes we find too that wethink that if we just keep
moving, we just keep working,working, working, staying busy,
that that's how we cope.
But really I mean you can dothat, but then it always comes
back to you.
The one thing I have learned isthat you really can't run from
your feelings.
(20:59):
They're going to come back toyou one way or another with it.
So a lot of times it's justimportant for you to find that
safe place to be able to say howyou feel.
And sometimes a safe place isfinding a person that you can
talk to, someone who's going tolisten to you and not judge you
(21:21):
and not, you know, just tell youwhat to do Because, again,
sometimes you just need to cry,Sometimes you just need to
scream, you need to just say Ican't do this.
And for those few minutes, thosefew hours, it's okay to say I
can't do this right now, becauseyou're trying to make sense of
(21:43):
what your loss is.
You're trying to stay connectedto your loved one and it's just
hard.
It's just really, really hard,no matter how you look at it,
with it.
And you have to figure out too.
You have to figure out whatself-care and self-compassion is
(22:03):
.
Thinking about your triggers too, and I think those are really
hard to figure out as well, andwe don't always think about
those as self-care.
I have a hard time with that.
I don't always think about thatas my self-care, but I'm slowly
beginning to realize thattriggers are self-care and what
(22:25):
I mean.
You know, a trigger could besomething where, for me it's
hard when some people starttalking about maybe certain
situations in their life ordiscussing some of their grief
or situations in their grief.
Sometimes I know, oh, this isgoing to make me feel way too
raw, I'm going to be right thereand this isn't the place that I
(22:48):
need to think about thosethings.
And it's hard to either try tochange the subject or to say to
someone, hey, I can't talk aboutthis right now.
It doesn't mean you can nevertalk about it, it just means in
that moment you just you can't.
You know, and those are hard,so it's hard to figure out what
(23:10):
you can do to change thosetriggers, to help you with
self-compassion, I think for mesometimes, when I'm with other
people, it's hard when othersstart talking about things and
they go on and on and on aboutstuff and I don't always know
how to change the subject or toget up and go in another room.
(23:31):
For me I'm like, oh, is there adog?
I'll go play with the dog.
Or to say to even people whoare close to me to be able to
say I can't do this, I just Ican't, I don't want to talk
about this right now and yougoing on about something else is
making me I just can't, becauseI have found that most people
(23:54):
don't realize it.
You know, everyone thinks abouttheir own feelings and they
don't mean it intentionally,they just they think, oh, you
seem like you're okay, sotherefore you must be okay.
And just because I always sayjust because I'm up and dressed
doesn't mean I'm okay.
Just because I'm up, dressedand at work doesn't mean I'm
(24:14):
okay.
It just means I'm trying to getthrough the day right now.
I'm trying to get through theday right now and I have found
that a lot as I was caregivingfor my mom and as I'm going
through this grief process thatsome days I'm like, yep, I'm
surviving, but doesn't alwaysmean I'm okay.
It just means I'm gettingthrough the day.
(24:35):
You know, and I try to doself-care things I try Some days
I'm better at it than othersand I think that's part of
self-care too to be able to sayyou know what, it's okay.
I have a hard time.
I always think, oh well, theweekends I should be doing this,
this, this and this, and someweekends I just don't have the
(24:55):
energy to do it and I have ahard time being able to give
myself that grace to say it'sokay, it'll get done.
It's not.
You know, it's not the end ofthe world if I didn't, you know,
get this clean today.
But it's hard because we wantto keep doing and pushing and I
have a hard time putting myfeelings and my needs first.
(25:16):
I have a really hard time withthat, or telling people what I
need.
I'm great at taking care ofother people and put in,
advocating and fighting fortheir needs, but I have a really
hard time fighting for myselfwith it.
So, as we're talking aboutself-care and self-compassion in
caregiving and in grief, thinkabout little different things,
(25:38):
like you said, like I said, fromtaking a break, you know, maybe
you start a hobby.
Maybe it's a new hobby, maybeit's an old hobby.
Maybe you start to do puzzles,you know.
Or you do art or woodworking,or maybe you just you know what.
I'm just going to find somegood books and I'm going to read
.
Maybe they're short, maybethey're long, that's what I'm
going to do.
Or watch TV.
(25:58):
You find some good movies or TVshows.
That's what you want to do.
I know for me, as it starts toget nice out, I like to be able
to be outside, sit out on mypatio or just enjoy the nice
weather.
Sometimes that just taking afew minutes sitting out in the
nice weather helps me feelingthe sun, those few few minutes
(26:19):
helps me regenerate and feellike, okay, it's not so bad, I
can do this with it, you know.
And so maybe that's what youneed.
Maybe those are those littlethings.
So I think for today, I thinkwhat's the most important is to
know that self-care is just asimportant as taking care of your
(26:40):
loved one.
As you're going throughcaregiving and as you're
grieving, it's important to takecare of yourself, because if
you get sick, you can't takecare of your loved one.
That's what's most important.
And it's also okay to ask forhelp and to say maybe you say,
hey, can you come over and sitwith your loved one for a little
(27:04):
while?
Maybe you just need to take anap, maybe that's what you need.
Or maybe you just need to goshopping for yourself, maybe
that's what's going to make youhappy.
It's okay to ask, and I thinksometimes we stress ourself out
and we think I can do it, I canhandle it, it's all you know.
I can do this.
(27:25):
But sometimes you need thoselittle hours or minutes to
yourself to kind of get yourselfre-energized to be able to take
care of the rest, becausesometimes when you're going
through caregiving you don'tknow how long it's going to be
and even grief, grief is ongoing.
It's kind of, in a way,never-ending.
(27:47):
It just kind of ebbs and flowswith it and it's really okay to
ask for help and it's okay totry to take care of yourself,
even if it's just for a fewminutes on one day and maybe for
a few hours another day.
You'd be surprised how muchthat helps you, taking those few
minutes, that little break, tobe able to say I need that, I
(28:10):
needed to take care of myself.
But I know as caregivers wedon't always want to do that.
But it's important becauseyou're important too, not just
your loved one, for that.
So today I thought that's whatwe talk about here on Patty's
Place taking care of ourselvesas we care, give as we go
(28:31):
through grief.
It's hard, but it's alsoimportant and there's so many
little things and little waysthat we can do this.
So I hope that these littlethings have helped as we talk
about caregiving and self-care.
Hopefully that has helped alittle bit for you today.
Please reach out to me, go aheadand send me some emails or
comment on my page.
I'd love to hear from you orany topics and things like that
(28:54):
that you'd like to hear, as wecontinue on talking about grief
and dementia and caregivingright here on Patty's Place.
So please reach out to me.
I always look forward.
I love to interact with you andhear what you are interested in
and what's going on, and ifthis is helping, I really would
appreciate that.
So please reach out on my page,send me an email or a comment.
(29:15):
I'd love to hear from you aswell.
So we will continue on andwe'll continue on talking about
grief and dementia andcaregiving right here on Patty's
Place.
So I hope you enjoyed your cupof coffee, your cup of tea, or
maybe you just needed wine forthe day here, right here on
Patty's Place, and I will talkto you next time right here on
(29:36):
Patty's Place.
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