All Episodes

July 8, 2025 27 mins

The chargeback exists to protect consumers. And it assumes that all consumers are good actors. But what happens when they’re not?

First party fraud is increasing by 30% every year.

It’s hard to detect, accounts for more than 75% of chargebacks, and costs US businesses more than $100B per year.

Shanthi Shanmugam, CEO of dispute automation platform Casap, joined guest-host Brooke Smith to discuss how payment providers, ISVs, and merchants can fight first-party fraud.

They covered:

  • Why first-party fraud isn’t detected by traditional fraud tooling
  • The tradeoff between friction and fraud, and how ISVs can strategically insert friction to reduce first-party fraud 
  • How modern technology like first-party fraud scores can identify high-risk consumers
  • Why some customers file chargebacks when they’re confused – and a simple strategy to identify (and fix) the most likely causes
  • Specific strategies to reduce chargebacks on subscription payments



The Payments Strategy Show is brought to you by Vertex and Rainforest.


Vertex: The Vertical Software Conference

This invite-only event and community offers networking, learning, and unique insights on go-to-market, monetization, product expansion, fundraising, and M&A.

Learn more: https://www.vertexconference.com/

Get updates on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/vertex-vertical-software-conference


Rainforest is the embedded payments purpose-built for vertical SaaS.

Grow revenue with the only payfac-as-a-service provider optimized to help you drive more payments volume at higher margins, without risk or compliance headaches.

Learn more: https://rainforestpay.com

Connect with us on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/rainforestpay


Mark as Played

Advertise With Us

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know
Dateline NBC

Dateline NBC

Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com

CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.