Movement Coins: The Next Steps with Murad $apu #spx6900

In this season finale episode of PondTalk, host Blew welcomes back Murad for the third part of their conversation, focusing on the future of Movement Coins. They discuss the concept of persistence and belief as crucial elements for long-term success in the crypto space. Key topics include how communities like $APU and #spx6900 can manifest their belief into real-world action ("becoming"), the importance of decentralized growth beyond crypto-Twitter, and the philosophy behind rewarding community contributors. The episode concludes with a major announcement for the show's next season.

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to a brand new episode of
Pond Talk. It's a really special one here
today. Before we get into the guest of
the night, I just wanted to remind everyone that tomorrow is
Rekt Takashi Tuesday. Wednesday is our episode with
Sarah Talley. Thursday is turned slash burn
slash frittata. It's not clear exactly what the
username is now because the cabal has it out for him, I

(00:23):
guess. Friday we are doing an in real
life episode, the first ever in real life episode of Pawn Talk
with Guardian. And on Saturday there's a very,
very special stream that won't be announced until later.
At any rate, this is Part 3 of an ongoing conversation that we
have had with Murad about publicbelief assets, about movement
coins, about his list, and aboutthe philosophy and everything

(00:45):
else. So without further ado, please
join me in welcoming Murad. Murad, welcome to the stream,
man. How are you doing?
How's it going man? Good to be here.
It's good, it's good. It's the, the season's starting
to change here for us. So lots of allergies, but I'm, I
like fall more than summer anyways.

(01:05):
So the faster we can get to colder weather, the better.
I don't know where you're located at and what, how it,
what it's like for you, but herein here in Georgia, here in the
South and in, in America, it's the fall as much the summers are
brutal. They're just brutal.
Mara, tell us a little bit aboutwhat what have you been up to in
the past month? Just a little bit.
Whatever you can talk about. It's been about a month since we

(01:28):
last spoke. You know, just continuing,
continuing to push SPX 6900, doing some stuff behind the
scenes, you know, researching, making some content, things like
that. Can I ask what is that
background behind you? It's just something like blue

(01:52):
and white usually works well forvideos.
Better than dark backgrounds in my opinion.
So I bought that when I started making tik toks a couple of
months ago. OK, there's a there's a scene,
there's a, a slide out of the token 2049 presentation that you
did that was talking about the unbundling I think was the
phrase of religion. And there is a in that slide,

(02:14):
there's an image and I was a friend of mine was like, I think
that background is the same image, is the arch the same, the
same art. I don't know if it is arisen,
but I thought I'd ask you something that.
Was it's not back in the slide you're referring to, There's
like the sky in the clouds. This is just very similar to
that. Oh, OK, but.
Those the the the purchase of this background and that
presentation are like a year apart.

(02:34):
OK, gotcha, Gotcha. Man.
There's, there's so much that I want to talk to you about.
I have, I have so many questionsalso about things like fasting,
things like, you know, the health maxing.
I think we've both been on a bitof a health maxing journey.
You've you've What's the longestfast you've gone on?
Four or five days. That's, that's like, that's

(03:00):
unfathomable for me, you know, like I, you know, I, I, I got
through two days. I did a second, I did another 24
hours after my 48 hours, but I got what's called apparently
they call it the keto flu. I apparently I didn't, I didn't
have enough electrolytes. So I, you know, it felt like I
woke up 1 morning. I, I felt like I got hit by a
truck that wasn't pleasant. But how do you for, for how do

(03:23):
you get to 5 days? I mean, what is that like for
you psychologically? I mean, I've, I've seen, I've
seen like 3 or 4 people on crypto Twitter.
I mean, I assume they're being honest, I'll take their word for
it. But I've seen people on crypto
Twitter over the years who've done like 20-25 days.
So the four or five days, like shouldn't it's like it's, it's
not an achievement, Like it's not a big deal.

(03:44):
It is a big, oh, come on, it's abig deal.
First of all, when we say 25 days, because someone said that
they were, that I would, I said that and someone commented that
they'd fasted for 100 days and Isaid, hold on, let's wait a
minute. You know, it's like there's only
so much. So some people say fasting, they
consider fasting to be like fasting 100% of the day, 24
hours out of 24 hours. And some people consider it to

(04:04):
be 18 out of 24. So when you say fast, just so
we're talking about the same thing.
Do you mean no food, only water and electrolytes and such?
I didn't even do electrolytes. I later realized that you need
to take electrolytes. But yeah, I know a lot of
people, they use they, they talkabout fasting in like a
religious sense where you just don't eat during certain hours

(04:25):
or whatever. I mean, I've like, I, I eat once
a day like in my normal life. So for me, fasting is like no
food at all. But I mean, the world record is
like 300 days. So, and the person apparently
there was like, no, there's likeno negative effect.
But granted, the person was extremely overweight, right?

(04:47):
I was about to say, yeah, I mean, I, I did the math and if I
just, if I was just like in a coma, I could probably last like
200 days without food. But that is that's crazy.
So you also got hit with the keto flu?
You know, I have experimented with keto like during like
normal days like non fasting so I got used to it.

(05:10):
Like, I'm relatively comfortablein ketosis, right?
But some people have problems with it, you know.
It's, it's, it's, yeah. I mean, I woke up the second day
I had to call out of work. I thought I was getting sick.
Like it really, I felt, I felt hungover, but I don't really
drink. So I was like, that's that's a
little curious. But anyways, OK, five days, man,

(05:30):
that is an achievement that is insane.
It's it, it's, it's, it falls into this theme that you and I
think we've, we've touched on before, which is these
activities, these like delayed gratification activities, long
distance running, fasting. And then there's some others.
It's, it's an interesting, it's interesting that there is a
subset of like of any activity, there is like a, a persisting

(05:55):
persistent or, or persistence mode that you can do with it.
I've, I found that I've, I've, I've talked about, you know,
about this before very briefly, but I've started reading this
book called the Biology of Belief.
And just that there is, there isa lot of, there is a biological
basis for the idea that belief and persistence in and of itself

(06:17):
has an ability to affect the world around us.
And it's, it's interesting that the, the concept goes that
basically genetic determinism is, is not 100% the reality
that, that there are certain genes that based off of our
environment are activated or deactivated.

(06:41):
There's also the idea that through that a lot of these
activators or, or settings are toggled by our, but by our
environment. But our environment is much more
than just physical things. It's much more than lighting or
temperature. It's also the, because, you
know, we're social creatures. And so it's also the things we
focus on, the things that the, our emotional environment.

(07:04):
And so as I was reading this, I,I, I stopped, you know, I was
like, Oh my God, this is, this is biological corroboration for
the entire belief thesis, the entire, the whole idea that this
is actually what will win in theend because to some extent it
defies logic. Were you aware of that when when

(07:24):
you were putting the thesis together?
I can't say I've read the specific book you're
referencing, although I have gotten it recommended to me a
couple of times in the last couple of months, but I have
stumbled upon similar theories in the past.
I think for me, the reason why Ilike communities and coins that

(07:47):
put a big emphasis on belief is because in their messaging, in
their communications, in their sort of lingo and motos and
marketing, they attract a certain kind of person.
And my thesis is quite simple, really.
My thesis is if because essentially everything effects

(08:11):
everything. That's the way I see it, right?
And my thesis is if on average our first say 10,000 members or
30,000 members, whatever, it is,right, If our 1st 20,000 members
of a community are such that they have resonated with this

(08:32):
messaging, to me, this means that they're likely to be like a
certain kind of people, to be more specific, like they are
looking for something meaningful.
Understand that all success in life are a marathon or a Sprint.
Patient, long termist, want to cooperate rather than to

(08:52):
compete. You get the idea.
And essentially my thesis is if we like keep putting this sort
of messaging out into the world and on average members of our
first 3040 thousand people, if they're such relatively clean
and pure people, then I think that foundation will pay off

(09:12):
dividends as we continue growingafter that.
You know, because I think those like, let's say the 1st 30,000
people or whatever, they probably have what I call like
trickle down culture effect. And because of that, I think
you, you can't sense it right now.
But I think like months or yearsdown the line is going to, it's

(09:33):
going to end up paying off massively because of that
foundation, right? Because of the behavior of that
core group. And that's why that's like what
attracted me in the 1st place tosome of these coins,
essentially. Do you find that persistence is
inherently a spiritual thing? I think it's a mixture of

(09:54):
physical and spiritual. Often times both go hand in
hand. You know, the spirit is very
important. But also I think I actually
think like the body is underrated because just to give
you a very simple kind of a shallow example, but
nevertheless, you know, when youunder sleep, your willpower goes
down. Like that's just straight up

(10:15):
well known, scientifically proven fact, which means that if
you want to maximize your kind of psychological or spiritual
energy, whatever you want to call it, you actually have to
take care of your body as well. And you know, when we are like
20 or whatever, we're like, oh, it's OK.
Like I'll sleep when I die. And you sleep 5 hours a day, 4
hours, four hours a day. And like, you think it's not a

(10:37):
big deal. But actually, the way I see it
is if you actually sleep 8-9 hours a day, even if you can,
you're actually going to end up going a longer distance because
it's like a more sustainable, you know?
And so kind of similar in the same vein, there's a famous
proverb which goes if you want to go fast, go alone, but if you
want to go far, go together. Kind of like in that same vein,

(10:59):
right? There's a there's certainly,
yeah. By the way, with the sleep
thing, it's not just power. It's like everything
inflammation, temperament, like at productivity, all of it, all
of it goes straight out the window.
And so it's like a few hours, a few hours extra sleep will, will
yield you far greater returns than the few extra hours of

(11:20):
attempted productivity. It's it's just not even, it's
not even comparable. That's something I had to start
doing recently is just I got very strict about bedtime.
I was, I, I said it's enough. I can't, I can't keep doing
this, you know, so that's there's just the studies are so
clear. You know, there's there are a
few things worse for you than depriving yourself of sleep.
When do you when? When do you go to sleep?

(11:42):
Well, so I, I, I've started now getting into bed by 10:30.
Yeah. And I try to be up by around
6:30, close to 7. That's pretty good.
That's pretty. Good.
I I I tried to do midnight but usually ends up being like 2-3
AM but I midnight is when midnight is like the goal.
Yeah, it's, it's also, it's hardthough, because it's, you know,

(12:03):
I come home, I do this and there's only so many hours in
the day. But, and you know, I know that
you're, you're on Twitter 18 hours a day.
But there's, there's like a you.It's also important to like 8
hours for everyone. Isn't it's, I think it's less
about getting 8 hours and it's more about getting what you need
and your body will tell you like, not everyone's the same.

(12:27):
I think that it's, people don't experiment enough of like, if I
just went to sleep, I didn't setan alarm and I recorded when I
went to sleep and when I woke up.
How will that, how will that affect me?
And, and, and we all have a different circadian rhythm as
well. So for some people, I know that
I just naturally get very fatigued at around 8-9 ish.
Like that's just, I naturally feel it.
That's time, you know, but some people aren't like, you know,

(12:49):
just, they don't get my, my, my family.
I have family members that just they cannot sleep until like
midnight, whatever it is, and itdoesn't matter when they wake
up. So, and I also think napping is
underrated while we're on this subject.
But but regardless, there's, there's just, it's so important
to take care of yourself. I, I had AI had a very
interesting conversation with Arjun Sethi from Kraken a few

(13:09):
weeks ago when I asked him the same question.
He says, you know, at some pointwhen you're in this industry,
you're it'll, you'll, you will have to start health maxing it.
It will become a liability to not.
And I think that I think I'm starting to notice that more and
more. And I'm, I'm sure that you have
as well. Yeah.
With the vein of, of the, of thepersistence and spirituality.

(13:30):
And by the way, when I say spirituality, I don't mean like
a religious thing, although thattoo, I mean more so for I'll use
myself as an example and then I'll use you as a question.
In when I was in law school, there was a moment where I just
had a breaking point. It was, it was just a really
emotional, I didn't, I didn't know where the emotion came
from. It was like pent up, you know,

(13:51):
it was just a really profound moment of like just breaking
down. And then that was over.
And I was like, OK, let's keep going.
And there's this, like feeling of when you don't have any, any
gas, so to speak, you know, no more energy, no more anything.
What's that thing that pulls youforward that's sort of the will
to persist? Where does that come from?

(14:12):
And so I was wondering, do you have an example for yourself
when, when you had a moment where you didn't know how you
were going to go on, but you still somehow did?
Yeah, you might have had burnoutprobably at at that point or
something along those lines. But I think when that happens, I
think you need to take a step back.
And I think for maybe one to three weeks, you probably want

(14:36):
to like rest extra, sleep extra,not deprive yourself of anything
and just kind of reset that way in my opinion.
And then I think that way you will you will heal essentially.
That's that's the way I see it. Yeah.
Do you have just, do you have anything that comes to mind sort

(14:58):
of a moment where you were like,you know, there was a there was
a point where I guess it's, it's, it's a complicated
question because the real question is what is it that
pulls us forward? Because what, you know, when
you're in law school, you can't take three weeks off.
It's just not an option. Then in life there are points
where you can't. So I guess what is it really
that pulls us forward in those moments, in your opinion?

(15:22):
I think you need to understand, like, who you're doing it for.
You know, some people are motivated by family, other
people are motivated by their goals.
You know, other people, you know, they have visions, they
have dreams and they tell themselves, I just have to push
through these 2-3 weeks and thenit's going to be better, right?
But, you know, we're, we're all different.

(15:43):
People are motivated by completely different things.
Yeah. And that's true.
It's true. I want to shift gears a little
bit and get into the the movement coins in the next
steps. Speaking of what propels us,
Speaking of what, what gets us up and and going we have seen
and I think I think we we are all watching in real time, which

(16:05):
is by the way, I think one of the really cool things about
this and about crypto is that everything is happening right
now. So we get to watch it all unfold
in real time. And so just even since our last
episode together, we've seen certain movement coins begin to
really manifest in really interesting ways.
So for example, we had we had SPX with the little Mike's space

(16:29):
that he did the world record-breaking space, which in
and of itself was a testament topersistence.
Just because, you know, X is is not stable enough for it.
But nevertheless, they persisted.
You know, we have APU doing thisreally cool poker thing where
it's like a manifestation of of the friendliness and community
that's that's going that way andsort of tangentially related to
crypto, but not really. How do you foresee these

(16:54):
movement coins manifesting and taking it beyond just, you know,
rating hard or or and and I don't, I don't mean to undermine
the power of that, especially, you know, not on X, like just in
general having that approach. I don't want to undermine that
at all. But what is, you know, the title
of this, this episode? What are the next steps in your

(17:17):
opinion? I think that the next step is to
get as big as possible honestly,and I'll tell you why.
I think once you have a bigger size, bigger people, like bigger
market cap, you have a lot more optionality with what you can
do. You can pull resources faster.
You have like people in more places around the world.

(17:39):
You can essentially bring peopletogether and like, whether it's
raising money or spreading the message, you can do it.
Like I think like even the biggest movement coins are still
too small and too early in the grand scheme of things.
And I think right now they should simply grow themselves.

(18:03):
At which point will be like, at at which point the question will
be all right, like what, what are the next steps?
But I think right now case should be growth, growth,
growth. It's like startups, for example,
startups like don't really pay dividends because they reinvest
into themselves in order to grow.
And I, I think right now is the same thing.

(18:26):
It like you just want to be become bigger, right?
But also depends on a case by case basis, right?
Like different coins, they, you know, have completely different
aesthetics, mission goals, you know, and so you have to analyze
it on a case by case basis as well.
Absolutely. Part of the the next question is

(18:47):
do you think is it possible to untangle growth with let me put
it this way, Let me put, let me throw this out there.
I don't want to get your reaction.
I'm going to, I'm going to positthat at this point, for movement
coins, growth must come with the, the shifting from just

(19:08):
believing to believing and becoming.
And the becoming there is is allabout actually manifesting all
of this energy, this, all of that belief into and it doesn't
necessarily have to be in person, right?
It doesn't have to be a a like you don't have to go outside and
have a lemonade stand. And you know, like that's not
what it's about. I mean, it can be, but that's

(19:28):
just one example. But that that there need to be
outlets to actually start havingthese roots take place, like a
grassroots kind of thing. What?
What do you think about that? Yeah, I totally agree.
You know, I'm a big believer in don't just believe, but also
take action. It I kind of, I think I tweeted
a couple of weeks ago I said, you know, God is going to give

(19:53):
direction to your boat, but you have to row, you know, right.
And it's the same thing like youhave to, you have to take
action, you have to do stuff. You know, and just hanging
around on Twitter isn't going todo anything.
You have to like the, the actualgrowth will come from the
outside. It's going to come from outside
of Twitter and actually it's going to come from outside of

(20:15):
crypto, right? So that's, I think that's where
sort of the greener pastures lie.
That's where the next chapter is.
Yeah, and the numbers support that too, right?
I think a lot of people have been saying that inside of CT
it's everyone's just moving the same pot of money around and
around. It is what it feels like.

(20:35):
That's what they. I don't know if that's true.
That's just the sentiment that I've garnered there.
There are a lot of interesting things happening with
specifically with regards to this.
Like second part, you say take action.
I call it becoming. The reason why I call it
becoming is because I think it'svery important that the holders
actually embody the essence of the movement and of the coin.

(20:59):
And so sorry, I go ahead. Well, I, I would just say that
you, you are what you do, right.So in that sense becoming doing
are tightly interconnected. Yeah, absolutely.
And that that's a fairpoint keeping in, you know, and This
is why the, the movement is the,the, the essence in the movement
in the heart of the community islike not just an important part,

(21:23):
it's, it's the part, it's, it isthe thing because, because, if,
because the manifestations are only as good as the thing that's
being manifested. And even among the
manifestations, even among thesesort of physical or tangential
pillars, shall we call them, there's variation there as well.
I have, I have been blown away by have you seen the, the NFT

(21:48):
rancor, NFT rancor dot IO? Have you seen that?
Yes, what? Do you?
What are your thoughts on that? I I played around with it.
I submitted a couple of reviews.Yeah, it's they, we had the, the
Aeons are on there and a lot, a lot of your list is on there
already. You know, that came that came
out of the APU community. Big Soda boy, it's just an
amazing initiative and it's suchan interesting thing to see like

(22:10):
the future of, of a different way to look at NFTS.
So that's just one example. And then I think SPX is just
about to launch like another community show is what I think I
saw. And that's extremely exciting.
And so it's like, you know, there's, there are so many,
there's so many different ways that this is that this is
happening. Are there any particular things

(22:31):
that you've heard about it or that you know, that are are are
that you can talk about from within the SPX 6900 community?
Some of these like little manifestations.
There there there are, but I am not allowed to talk about them
yet. OK, OK.
All right. Didn't want to.
I don't want to. I don't want to.
You know only what we can talk about.
You've recently talked about youdidn't just talk about it.

(22:51):
We were on a space together and we were on a space together.
It was the the real world record-breaking space.
And you had you had a sort of call to action and I think
everybody got chills when you did it.

(23:12):
It was the most charismatic callto action I think I have ever
heard on Twitter. And it kind of came out of
nowhere and you sort of commanded in a very, you know,
this like resolute kind of way for everyone to go to to Reddit.
I think I right, I think everybody in that moment created

(23:34):
a Reddit account right then and there.
It was such a powerful call to action.
I want to get a little bit. I want to know and I want to
share with the viewers. What number one, when did you
decide that Reddit is the place to be?
Why is Reddit the place to be and and what is behind your
where, where, where's the conviction?
Where does that come from? Share.
Share a little bit about that please.

(23:55):
Yeah. So there's a couple of things.
It's not Reddit specifically forlike the past 6-12 months even,
It's become painfully obvious tome, Not painful, but abundantly
obvious. I would say to me that, you
know, if you want your communityto grow, you have to go on
TikTok. That's why you know, we started
going hard on TikTok. You have to go to Instagram, you

(24:20):
have to go to Facebook, LinkedIn, Reddit.
A big reason for Reddit is because a, it was very big
during GME. It was very big during Doge.
It was very big in 2017 during the ICO mania.
It was very big like during someof even earlier during bitcoins
days. And I believe that, you know, an

(24:49):
average person on some of these subreddits, they are perfect
demographic for some of these things.
Because at the end of the day, crypto Twitter is a bubble.
Even our our side of crypto Twitter that we're on is an even
smaller bubble. So if you want to grow, like, if

(25:09):
you're just keep tweeting like into the same, you know, 1000
people, it's just going to be the same 1000 people liking each
other. Like that doesn't achieve
anything, you know what I mean? And by definition, you need to
kind of spread your seed, so to speak, across like, you know,
different platforms, different communities.
So Reddit, I think probably the best place to do that.

(25:32):
The other thing is it's actuallythe training ground for all of
the LLMS. So I think more and more people
around the world are going to betalking to an LLM instead of
Googling even. And I mean, it's already
replaced like Quora and Stack Exchange and search engines as

(25:52):
well to some extent. So it's just like the perfect,
it's just the perfect grounds for this.
Also, like the people on Reddit are often wealthy millennials,
people that like per user have like more money, bigger
portfolios than some of the other demographics, you know, So

(26:16):
it's it's just a it's just, I think it's a good, you know,
should I say channel market fit,right or platform?
Yeah, exactly. OK, so I'm happy you brought
this up. I'm happy you brought up TikTok.
You and I were both on TikTok. Interestingly enough, we both
have taken, we've taken the samephilosophy, but it's manifested

(26:36):
differently. And I wanted to ask you about
this. Your content on TikTok is very
unique and it's very different than everything else that you
post. Can you tell us a little bit
about what what, what sort of informed your, your style
decisions and and creative direction on that?
There's no, there's no like predetermined tactics or

(26:56):
strategy. It's just kind of me
experimenting, you know, seeing what works, seeing what doesn't.
But I'm, I mean, I'm going to, I'm going to continue
experimenting with some slightlydifferent formats as well.
So we'll we'll see how it goes. Yeah, I want to I want to start
live streaming there, but you they make it TikTok doesn't like
to play nice. They don't like to share it.
So like with stream yards, I canput it everywhere at once, but I

(27:18):
have to, I'll have to set something up sort of
contemporaneously for, for TikTok, which is a shame because
the the problem is, you know, I don't know.
And I, I don't know if you've thought about this and if you
have some thoughts about this. But if TikTok as a platform is
actually akin to some of these creator coin platforms, you know
that where the audience itself is just isn't suitable for long

(27:42):
form. Because there, there is a
correlation, I think, between people who are likely to buy,
hold, believe and become and people who like long form
content, whether it's medium core or Reddit X whatever, and
people who are trading in seconds and prefer bite sized
vine, TikTok, so on and so forth.
Do do you think there's any overlap there?
Or do you have you ever wonderedabout that?

(28:03):
I think there is, that's why I don't that's why I think in for
you specifically instead of streaming on TikTok, you should
probably have someone watch yourstreams as they happen on other
platforms. Then try to cut up each stream
into like 5 to 15, like interesting tidbits and then

(28:23):
gradually post those 5 to 15 little like little pieces on to
TikTok because a TikTok user is just not going to have the the
like the attention span to watcha 45 minute stream.
That's just too there's too muchalert to like check out another
thing. And the brain likes variety and

(28:44):
varieties easily accessible there.
So you know, you have to you have to adapt the format to each
platform. You know, that's, that's kind of
the point, right? That's why, that's why I, I have
videos that are two hours long, but I also have videos that are
9 seconds long. And you, you got, you kind of
have to play around with it, seewhat works.
It's not it's set like we, you know, it's not as easy as it

(29:05):
looks. I I hate to say that because I
think sometimes people make it look very easy.
I think you make it look easy. It's not easy.
And I've also on TikTok. I personally, I think there is
the more, the more and this, this to to make it more about
becoming in the next steps for movement coins.
What I've also seen is you know,the, the the friends and the

(29:28):
aeons have come together on the pure belief asset subreddit and
on the movement coin subreddit. And that's been really cool.
But what I've also seen, and I don't know if this is within the
SPX or APUI, can't remember where this is coming from, but
there's also been some discussions about actually,
let's not do that. Let's not, sorry, not not do it,
but not only do that like actually spread out into all
these other subreddits too, because the more you can

(29:52):
diversify the person, right, themore we can break out of this
algorithmic silo that we've created.
That's like the what's happened on CT.
And so I'm also, you know, I've started diversifying the content
on TikTok a little bit too, because I think it's like, you
know, I'll put it this way, how much diversification from a

(30:13):
subject matter basis, right, in terms of just not just crypto,
right? Do you recommend that a person
actually engages it? I mean at what percentage of
their content and these are you know hard and fast numbers just
sort of approximately should what percentage of the content
should be crypto related? I think it's better to
specialize because I think you're going to be spreading

(30:36):
yourself too thin if you talk about too many different topics,
but there's probably a sweet spot in like 3 to 4 topics that
are somewhat connected that likethat should be your go to well.
Let me that's fair, that's basedoff how I worded that question.
That's a fair response, but I I mean more so specializing, OK,

(30:57):
and fine tuning the content of the message of crypto so that it
can be delivered to multiple places at once.
So for example, let's use SPX 6900 as an example.
If I were to, I want to talk about community, right, But I'm
going to post this not in a crypto subreddit in a mental
health subreddit. And I'm going to talk about how

(31:19):
much different my online experience has been, you know,
in as an AEON or, or or through APU, right?
I could do the same thing withinsort of a comedy subreddit, a
stand up subreddit or whatever and share the jokes there,
right? Show, share those memes there.
So not necessarily not talking about crypto, but augmenting the

(31:39):
message somewhat so that it's acceptable or or can be received
by multiple different audiences.Yeah, definitely, definitely.
That's also why, you know, when you go on TikTok, you can't
really, it's not you're not going to do well if you post
like a 12 minute thing, right, right.

(31:59):
That's why you you, I totally agree with you.
You have to adapt the the style,the content, the length,
etcetera to each platform. What concerns do you have?
Sort of when I say concerns, let's let's define what that
means. What things are you starting to
see or do you foresee in the near future will be very

(32:24):
important inflection points or obstacles for the movement coins
that they're going to have to overcome?
And how would you encourage thator recommend that they prepare
for that? Nothing, nothing specific like
this comes to mind. But for me, it's just a matter
of having the community, you know, have united goals

(32:48):
continuing to persist. And it's just a matter of like
continuing to grow. You know, crypto is a crypto is
a phenomenon where if you don't die, you will end up succeeding,
you know, and it's like you haveto.
That's why you have to keep persisting.
Like the reason, like since in the past 18 months, so many

(33:09):
millions of coins have, you know, they, they, they came and
went, you know, and you know, we're still here, we're still
pushing. So ultimately, like the coins,
like the way crypto works is there are going to be like these
three to four month periods where pretty much like
everything happens. And the question is, did you,

(33:31):
did you build a strong foundation when that period
begins? And that's my, that's my goal,
right? It's to make sure that the
foundation is very strong when that period begins, you know?
What? The reason the reason I say that
is because I don't think retail is here yet.
Like I think all of this is still all of this is still like

(33:51):
relatively internal. All of this is still like
institutional driven so far and all of this is still, you know,
mainly like crypto full time people rather than you're like
normal people. They haven't kind of returned to
crypto yet in my opinion. And you want to build a very

(34:12):
powerful foundation, very powerful community, like when
they inevitably return. What do you think as a as a rule
brings people to crypto? I think it's stories is my
answer. And essentially you have a

(34:34):
situation where people like at any given point in time, there's
a situation somewhere around theworld where somebody like made
money in crypto, right? And they inevitably go, whether
it's their classmate or Co worker or their cousin or
whatever, they go and they tell them, look, I'm already
succeeding with this. You have to jump on board, you

(34:58):
know what I mean? And other people are like, wow,
like that person, he's already making money there, you know,
he's or, or he's already having fun there.
He's like really succeeding, enjoying themselves, whatever it
may be. I should take a look at it as
well, you know? And the first time that new
person hears it, they might ignore it.

(35:19):
And then they're you, they're like every four or five years,
there's a point where they starthearing it from like 3-4 people
in the span of like 2-3 weeks. And I think that's the trigger,
you know what I mean? Because if you hear it once
every six months, you're like, whatever.
But then if there's like a monthwhere you hear it like all of a
sudden from 6-7 people both online and offline, or it's your

(35:43):
Discord group, or it's like a real, real world offline,
whatever it may be, that's when people come in, you know what I
mean? Because they're like, uh oh,
it's like occurring too frequently.
I should check it out, you know.And I also think in addition to
that, I think that's, I think that's especially been true, but
I also think that what, what we as a, as a collective have done

(36:05):
within the movement coin class and we're continuing to do it.
That's why that's why I keep, I keep focusing in on this
becoming aspect. We are creating many different
on ramps for other people. I'll tell you that we recently,
someone recently came into the APU poker community that's been
growing. It's incredible what, what, what

(36:26):
they're doing over there throughPontalk.
They weren't even really, you know, they're, they weren't big
member, you know, they weren't really involved in CTE, none of
that. But the on ramp of Pontalk
brought them into the poker community.
And then it's just sort of, you know, there's like a positive
feedback loop. You have like 5 different SPX
6900 on ramps that, that I, thatI can think of, that I can list

(36:47):
off the top of my head. And so there are there, it's so
important to create these, thesedifferent points where a person
can interact with your communityand go, whoa, that's really
cool. I, I want more, I need more.
And, and I think that's, that's the next step because on the one
hand, crypto will come here as the narrative unfolds, but

(37:08):
there's something kind of, there's a bit of a chicken and
egg problem, right? Because people won't see that
kind of growth until people get here, right?
Like, so, so how do you, how do you jump start that?
What is the, the ignition of that?
And some people say that it's like there's a catalyst.
And I had this conversation, I think it was with, I can't
remember who it was with, but they said, you know what, we

(37:28):
need a catalyst. And I said, we are like, we are
the catalyst, the people who areable to transform from a sort of
passive reactive part of the community.
And I, and I will tell you, it'sso, so important.
Obviously, you know that, but I want the audience.
I don't want them to think that I'm, I'm not belittling this at
all, but the people who can, whocan transform from being purely

(37:50):
reactive to being proactive and,and be those catalysts and bring
people in. I think that's what's really
going to amplify because it's a certain point.
You're right. I mean, no matter how many on
ramps we make, if retail doesn'tcome, they're not coming.
And that's, it's just what it's going to be.
And at this point, you know, I, I agree that they're not here
yet, but I think that the, the movement coins and really just

(38:13):
the coins in general, which obviously will be the movement
coins that are able to create asmany of these on ramps as
possible, They're going to standapart.
I want to hear from you something though of an idea that
I think I have a feeling I know how you'll answer this, but I'm,
I'm curious how important is it,if at all for a community,
especially a movement going to promote from within or or invest

(38:35):
in its own community members, Ifif you get sort of where I'm
going with that. I'm a big believer in that.
I'll tell you why. We already have an example with
Doge. By 2019, they had a very robust
tipping culture where they tipped people heavily that have

(38:56):
contributed like to the coin, you know what I mean?
And also I have already, you know, just given away hundreds
of thousands of SPX to people for free whenever I see anyone
doing something like extraordinary.
And my vision is, you know, I like to reward people that are

(39:23):
already working hard, even without pay, you know, because
it they're, they're essentially doing it out of their own like
volition, you know what I mean? And so when you have some
someone who's contributing already out of their own
volition, really makes you want to reward them.
And also people love to feel appreciated.

(39:44):
You know, people love to supportand be supported.
And so this is already the 3rd or the 4th cycle, depending on
how you count it, right? 4th actually.
And there are definitely things you can learn from past
successes in crypto with this, with the case of Dojo, I would
specifically point again to the tipping culture that they have

(40:08):
developed. And that's something that we.
Are very big on in SPX as well. How, how, how in do these people
that you that you tip, do they know that it's you or do they
just wake up and for you know, how exactly does that work?
Most of the time they don't know, sometimes they do.

(40:29):
Like it kind of depends on the situation.
That's awesome from from the stamps.
So that's like the tipping culture.
Do you think you've mentioned starps before, Other people have
used that analogy before. Do you think that there is also
this element of wanting to see communities be a, a breeding
ground for ideas and innovation and having that serve also as

(40:52):
creating these on ramps? Do you view that?
Do you think that's an appropriate description or or or
use case for these communities or no?
Yeah. I mean, I like to.
I've been jokingly saying for the past year that some of these
meme coin communities, they're closer to DA OS than the
original, like D5 focus DA OS because you know it's a.

(41:15):
DAO for people who might not know.
Do you know? I don't know.
You know, the DAO, the decentralized autonomous
organizations, OK, they were very big, like 2015 to 2020.
And it's essentially, you know, pretty much it was pretty much
an attempt, one of the early blockchain use cases, the vision

(41:37):
was we're going to build corporations that they don't
have a registered office, they don't have a, they don't have
like a physical address, they don't have anything.
And it's all purely on chain, you know, in it sounds very
utopian in practice, however, inmost cases it was just a
centralized company with a multisig, you know, and they're just

(41:59):
using, they're just using the chain for payments.
That's pretty much it. And I like to say that like what
I'm seeing right now with some of these meme coin communities
is actually much more in line with that utopian hyper
decentralized vision of Daos than some of the, you know,
utility token Daos of yesteryear.

(42:19):
You know, and the reason I say this is because it truly feels C
to C, It truly feels like emergent, bottoms up, organic,
decentralized without, like likethere's no centralized team.
It's just like people are doing their own initiatives, you know?
Like there's just so much stuff going on in SPX, for example, I
don't even know like 70% of it. So everybody creates their own

(42:42):
initiatives and I think it's very beautiful.
And I like to say that, you know, in the last 20 years in
America, you know, B to B companies are popular, B to C
companies are popular. But I think what like the best,
one of the frameworks to understand these movement coins
is essentially the, they are C to C platforms.

(43:03):
You know, C to C essentially similar to P to P It's, it's not
business to consumer, it's not business to business, it's
consumer to consumer. And essentially as they grow,
they end up being these like large, like very, very
connected, like network states almost or essentially like
gigantic online fraternities. And I think it's like very

(43:24):
beautiful to see that emerge almost like like a flock of
flock of bees or like a murmuration of birds, like very
similar phenomena. You also embody this.
I mean, you in, in many, in manyways, this entire show is kind
of a, a, a version and, and, andhow it's it's gotten to where
it's gotten and, and how you know, it's progressed is a

(43:45):
product of you engaging with someone that you know 106 days
ago that you know, just just seeing that and engaging and
seeing what comes of it. And you do that often that it
wasn't a, a unique thing. Do you do you think that there
is, is there a limit to that? I mean where, where does that?

(44:06):
Let me let me rephrase that I the.
Limit the, the limit is the hours, the limit is the hours in
the, the hours in the day, right?
Because, you know, like I, I follow 6000 people, 7000 people
on Twitter, but practically speaking, I can only consume
only a tiny slice of the algo, right?
So it's kind of like you're kindof at the mercy of the algo in a

(44:29):
way. But essentially at the same
time, if you do it like 30 timesa day, systematically, you're
just going to look like a sociopath that's kind of going
out of their way to do it. But if you do it like here and
there, I think that's totally normal.
Like, I mean, my, my vision is you have to lift up people.

(44:52):
And the reason I say this is because some of the greatest
insights that I've ever been finding on CT over the past 10
years have been from like the tiniest accounts, right?
Because here's the thing, by thetime you are a gigantic account,
even if you're extremely self aware and enlightened or however
you want to call it, a part of you, a part of you is almost

(45:15):
like addict, not addicted, but like optimizing for likes or
engagement or almost like some kind of a bait, whether whether
it's consciously or subconsciously.
And because of that, I think youdon't really, you aren't truly
quite yourself in in many ways. And I think when you have like 5

(45:37):
followers or 100 followers, you can be unashamedly yourself
because you're not even optimizing for anything at that
point, you know? And that's why you can truly,
you can truly see a lot of contrarian thinking there, you
know, And also in Buddhism, there's a term called beginner's
mind and which is essentially anexplanation how a lot of the

(45:58):
times beginners see things clearly than professionals, you
know, because they are not encumbered.
They have a clear mind. They're they're unencumbered,
you know, they're not encumberedby their industry scars, you
know, so to speak. So they're, they can just so
true. They describe it as they see it,
you know, So, yeah. It is.

(46:20):
It is. It's so true for so many reasons
and it I, I have to remember that to be in Buddhism.
It's Buddhism. You right, You said.
The beginner's eye. Beginner's mind.
Beginner's mind there's there's a a.
The eye. The eye is from the other other
religions. Yeah, there is AII.

(46:40):
I'll save it for later. But it's, I have such a, such an
interesting story with, with regards to what you just said,
but you're very right. And, and to take it a step
further, when you get into thesecommunities, something else
happens, which is the group think there tends to be a social
phenomenon where people don't want to innovate intellectually

(47:04):
and and thematically. So when you get someone new with
a fresh perspective, not only are they going to be sort of,
they have that beginner's mind, they also have the courage and
the ability social socially to dissent and to break the echo
chamber and to be a good source of dialogue.

(47:25):
And not from a malicious perspective, not in a combative
perspective, but just they don'tget, they're not sort of drawn
into the politics, if you will. And I don't mean that, you know,
I don't, I don't want to overplay the I don't want to
overstate how strong that is. But it's so important to have
communities where people feel safe and comfortable to say,
Hey, you know, let's disagree. You know, I see SPX people all

(47:49):
the time be like, Hey, I don't know if I like this.
The APU community just had a a memetic civil war over
disagreements, right? That that actually, it was it
was real time meaning of a disagreement and a conversation
that ended up pretty, pretty cool, actually.
And I wanted to talk to you thatabout about that a little bit.
But how important is dissent, doyou think?

(48:10):
I think it's important, very much so, but I, I also think
it's natural in decentralized communities that don't have like
a centralized authority. I mean, the very technology that
these coins are built upon are essentially descent
technologies, right? So they are descent is embedded
in all of crypto's DNA. I think it here's well, here's

(48:33):
the thing. Crypto was much more about
dissent back in 20/12/2013. Right now it's become very
corporate and a very big reason why I like SPX 6900 is it's
giving me those 2013 BTC vibes when it was very much anti
establishment, very cyberpunk, cyberpunk too.
And also, you know, it was trying to make a statement, you

(48:58):
know, and it was counterculture,you know, like even here's
here's like my question to you, right?
Like if you grew up in the 2000s, you might still remember
there, there used to actually besubcultures, right?
There used to be, you know, Goths, emo, indie rock, like,

(49:18):
you know. Punks, the nerds that.
Yeah, yeah. Things like that, yeah.
And I mean, The thing is, what'sthe subculture now?
It's become very consumers. People express themselves by
like the stuff they buy or whatever, but it's just complete
bullshit, you know? And what is counterculture
today? Depending where, but it's

(49:39):
becoming being religious, being more traditional, being more
like health, health oriented, fitness oriented, these sorts of
things. Right, for sure, for sure.
And in the context of crypto specifically, I would say
there's like very little counterculture left because now,

(49:59):
you know, a lot of crypto was about kind of rewriting the
rules of the world from scratch.And while we do need adoption
right now, it's become very muchlike praying for, praying for
Chad fight to like Biddy or bagsor whatever.
And for me, I like SPX because it's, it's bringing back that

(50:21):
2012 kind of underground vibe. And I I really like that.
There's some nostalgia for sure.I wanna, I get your, I don't, I
know that we've, we've talked about it a little bit, but
another one of these manifestations.
I, I, I don't know if you're aware of how the real amount of
influence you've had over this new innovation in the APU
community. It's it's been talked about

(50:42):
quite a lot. The the new whale NFTS and the
way that you know, when, when you were on the show last time,
you talked about what NFTS meantto you that for you that you
think people will look at them like high value watches or
something for people to be able to show off their involvement
and in the community. And so the APU community created

(51:02):
an NFT that exists separate fromits standard collection in that
it only, you can only buy it if you're a whale.
And if you ever dipped below whale, it sort of burns and,
and, you know, self destructs, but they're, they're, they're
very interesting and, and beautiful actually.
Are you, do you, do you see other communities beginning to

(51:27):
sort of find that model or or create these sorts of sort of
incentives more in line with with your philosophy on NFTS as
being these sort of indicators for people who you know, showing
off how much their involvement and their love for the
community? I think other than just being
something like high end watches,I think they even more

(51:52):
importantly than that, I think they show your identity and they
signal like your belonging to a certain tribe.
You know, tribes used to be veryimportant throughout
evolutionary history, but less so, less so in the 21st century
because I think digital technology has made people and
society much more atomized rightnow.

(52:20):
What was the question exactly? Just if you if you if you what
your thoughts are on this model of of a a sort of diamond
handedness reward mechanism and whale mechanism to entice people
to to get there and be holders be believers.
And in a way that's not sort of a vamping another collection,
right. It's it exists in its own

(52:41):
universe and can't sort of existthat universe, Excuse me, exit
that that universe just to if you, if you, if you let, if you
think that there is a a good, a good direction of rewarding
those trades, sort of the diamond handedness and and faith
and belief in in in holding within.
The so I'll say a couple of things.
I think from a mechanism design point of view, I would, I would

(53:04):
reward someone for like being diamond handed, but I wouldn't
reward someone for being wealthier, you know, because the
whole point of crypto is to be less elitist, right?
And I think that crypto as a vehicle for escaping, you know,

(53:26):
escaping the lower middle class or whatever it may be is an
important concept. And if we are tired of like the
growing inequality and the chasmin the real world, we wouldn't
want to bring that back on chain.
You know, that's how I would say.
That being said, I actually think that the best mechanism

(53:50):
design is no mechanism design and the best tokenomics is no
tokenomics. And what I mean by that is, you
know, you can use like certain like incentives, you can use
certain rewards or whatever. But the most powerful is when
you have like high loyalty metrics or whatever metric you
want to optimize without actually optimizing for them

(54:11):
essentially completely naturally, right?
I remember when the D5 wave was happening in 2020-2021, there
were so many experimentations. You know, we're going to give
you coins for doing this, We're going to give you coins for
doing that. We're going to give you coins
for not selling. We're going to give you coins
for locking up. But to me, the best is like

(54:33):
nothing. It's just here are, here are 1
billion coins. No inflation, no deflation, all
coins in circulation, no staking, no staking, no rewards,
nothing. And then essentially, let's see
how the chips fall and then let the culture speak for itself.
And I think that's the purest. I think that's the purest form.

(54:53):
You know what I mean? Absolutely.
Have you seen some of the art? Not of the new, not of the new
APU stuff, no. Gotcha.
Well, we'll be we'll be posting some more of that.
There's there are two other things I know that we we don't
have too much time here. You've been very critical before
of animal coins and someone asked me once what, you know, it

(55:18):
doesn't make any sense because there's, you know, there's the
relationship between SPX and APUand, and they looked at APU as
an animal coin and I said, whoa,I, I don't think APU is an
animal coin, but I wanted to getyour thoughts on that.
Yeah, I don't see APU as an animal coin.
I think APU, even before the coin APU was like a very popular

(55:40):
meme on crypto Twitter like since 2018.
And then I think the link community popularized it even
more in 2019 onwards. So to me it was, it was
something different. You know, when I say animal
coins, I mean like dogs, cats, your usual, usual suspects.
Yeah, OK. And Rod, just one, one final

(56:03):
question for you. If, if, if someone is in, you
know, one of our communities talking about they, they want to
be someone because there are many people who they do, they
want to help and they're, and they're, they post and they're
very sort of disciplined in this.
But if they wanted some advice from you on how they can take
that leap from believing to becoming, what advice would you

(56:23):
give them? Everybody has certain talents
and you, you need to see how best you can use your talents in
this specific case. Essentially, I think for a lot
of people, these communities arevehicles for self-expression.
So for example, you are good at rhetoric, discussion, streaming,

(56:49):
things like that. So you're contributing in your
own way. Different people are good at
art. They're they're contributing
that way. You know, some people are good
at, you know, merchandise design, they're computing that
way. So essentially you need to see
how your talents can fit into like the movement, you know, and
everybody, everybody can contribute in different ways.
Yeah, yeah, I, I love that. I want to say one last thing on

(57:10):
on a personal note, moron, this is the the season finale of
season 1. We've been doing Pontalk for 105
days now and it has been an incredible journey and in no
small part thanks to you. And so I just wanted to say on
behalf of of the whole Pont Talkcommunity, thank you.
Thank you for, for, you know, joining us for these episodes.

(57:33):
Thank you for, for the influenceand guidance.
It's been, it's been a really amazing journey.
I can't believe it's only been 105 days.
And you know, I, I, I really look forward to how, you know,
our, our two communities continue to interact and grow.
And I also, I want to start doing a little bit more focusing
on, on the everyday, sort of theday-to-day members of, of all of

(57:56):
these communities and tell theirstory.
And so that's, that's something that I, I'd like to focus on
more on season 2. But, but Murad, thank you so
much for making the season finale for, for Pontoc and for,
for being here really kind of from day one.
So I really, really appreciate it.
Absolutely man, thanks for having me all.
Right. Well, ladies and gentlemen, that
was Murad joining us for episode3 of the Well, he's his final

(58:21):
part in Pontoc and the season finale.
Now, ladies and gentlemen, before you go, I promised you a
gigantic announcement and there will be 1 and there's one right
now. We're making that announcement
right now. The the the stream that we will
have on on on Saturday, because if you guys remember, tomorrow
is Takashi Tuesday, Wednesday iswhat is Wednesday?

(58:45):
It's already oh, Sarah Talley Thursday is turn slash burn
slash Xavier. Friday is an in real life
episode with guardian and, and well, Saturday, Saturday is Waka
Flocka. Waka Flocka Flame will be
joining me on pawn talk Saturday, 8:00 PM Eastern

(59:06):
Standard Time. You're not going to want to miss
this. It's it's just we're, we're,
we're in unprecedented times. It's been so, so exciting.
He's been tuning in and there should be a, we'll be making
some posts on that Guys. I I would not have wanted, I
could not have asked for a better, a better conclusion to

(59:32):
season 1. I want to bring, I want to bring
the team out here for season forseason 1.
Tim, LFG, I'm going to bring youguys out here.
Guys, you know, I'd like for youguys to take a metaphorical bow
here. Let me just play the this is for
you guys. This is the team because these
are the guys that do it and theymake it happen behind the

(59:54):
scenes. Without them, there would be no
show. And so I just, I want, I want
them to, to be up here with me 'cause they deserve, they
absolutely deserve to be here. They have stuck through it.
It has been everyone here has had to learn new skills and more
importantly, everyone here has had to deal with me.
And that I think in and of itself deserves an award.
But guys, thank you so much for,for, you know, for we, we, this

(01:00:18):
is it. This is the end of season 1 and
I wouldn't want to end this any other way.
Start man. Yeah, that.
Start. This is Ground Zero.
The cardigan stays on. The cardigan stays on.
Maybe there'll be a new cardigan.
We'll see. We'll see.
We'll see how people feel about that.
It's not from. Shan.
As long. Yeah, for sure not.

(01:00:38):
Yeah, no. But anyways, ladies and
gentlemen, thank you so much forjoining us on yet another
episode of Pawn Talk. My name is Blue.
I'm the host. LFG is here, he's the director,
and Tim is our producer. This is the fastest growing
crypto meme coin talk show that reinvests in the communities
that you and I both love. With that being said, I look
forward to seeing you guys tomorrow for Tekashi Tuesday and

(01:01:00):
everything else will be a plan for you as season 2 begins
tomorrow and season 1 ends tonight.
Thank you guys and good. Well, there's a frog going round
taking names, decides who to mean and who to blame.

(01:01:22):
Everybody won't make it. Ain't the same blue app.
When pawn talkies fan in the flame, he's a blue frog sharp in
a red cardigan. Works by day stacking wins like
a champion. But when the moon arises, he's
the king of the swamp, croaking up memes with a holler and stomp

(01:01:47):
or blue apple. Pontalk hear the call from the
swamp to the screen. He's judging them all with snap
and smirk. He's running the brawl, Blue
Apple, Pontalk standing tall. In the daytime he's cool with a
suit and a grin, but at night he's the frog where the chaos

(01:02:10):
begins. Hypes the hits, clowns the flops
with sneer. This the blue frogs, the ball.
Still the morning appears, so watch for that frog.
He's taking the reins. Blue Apple and Pontalk running
the girl. Oh.

(01:02:53):
Blue Apple and Ponto.