July 16, 2025 • 26 mins
Episode 2 – Lines of Defense: Wildfire Mitigation
Hosted by Jim Anderson, General Manager and CEO of Midstate Electric Cooperative
In this episode, we’re breaking down the steps electric utilities take to prevent wildfires and keep communities safe. You will hear from Midstate Electric Cooperative's Operations Manager, Brian Sharr and Engineering Manager, Tom Weller on topics from tree trimming and vegetation management to creating defensible space and maintaining rights-of-way, we cover the critical work happening year-round. We’ll also explain how fire mitigation settings impact power restoration and why community education plays a vital role in reducing wildfire risk. Tune in to learn how proactive planning and partnership help protect both the grid—and the people it serves.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jim Anderson (00:08):
Welcome back to Power Factor, a podcast powered
by Midstate Electric Cooperative.
I'm your host, Jim Anderson,the CEO and General Manager.
Today, we're diving into atopic that's at the top of
everybody's mind with wildfirepreparedness and what happens
behind the scenes in Midstate.
As wildfire season grows longerand longer and becomes more
(00:28):
intense, electric utilitiesacross the West are making tough
decisions on how to keep thecommunity safe.
At Midstate, safety is one ofthe core things we do, from
maintaining power to making highstakes calls during extreme
weather events.
Joining us today are two of thekey leaders who help drive the
decisions behind the scenes OurOperations Manager, Brian Sharr,
and Engineering Manager, TomWeller.
(00:49):
They'll be answering some ofthe most common questions that
we get from our members.
Whether you're a longtimemember or new to the service
territory, this episode willgive you a behind-the-scenes
look at the proactive steps thatwe are taking to protect you,
your family and the grid that werely on.
Let's get started.
So, Brian, Tom, welcome, Thankyou, Thank you.
So we're going to start outtoday with some questions for
(01:11):
both of you.
We hear a lot about firemitigation.
Can you explain to the memberswhat fire mitigation actually
means in the utility world.
Brian Sharr (01:20):
Yeah, wildfire mitigation involves taking
proactive steps to minimize risk, hardening of the grid,
enhancing power line safetysettings, and being proactive in
vegetation management andstrategic use of technology to
control power flows, and alsoworking across all public and
private entities.
Tom Weller (01:38):
Yeah, we are trying to mitigate or lower the risk of
starting a fire due to birds,squirrels, trees and vegetation
getting into our lines andstarting a fire.
Also, we're building new linesthat will survive a fire, if a
fire should occur.
Jim Anderson (01:53):
That's good.
So, from your standpoint, whyis fire mitigation such a
priority for a co-op likeMidstate, and what makes us
different from a muni or a IOU?
Brian Sharr (02:04):
Midstate is a member-owned cooperative and
safety is always our toppriority.
Protecting the people we serveis at the heart of everything we
do.
Unlike investor-owned utilities, which are profit-driven and
often operate in more urbanareas with greater
infrastructure and resources,Midstate serves a large rural
territory where resources aremore limited and our challenges
(02:27):
are unique.
Tom Weller (02:28):
Yeah, Midstate, for the most part, is surrounded by
forest, dense vegetative areasand grasslands, which are a
rural setting.
A major fire to a smallcooperative like ours could
cause damage to property owners,risk of loss of life and homes,
and the cost of a fire wouldcause our rates to skyrocket if
(02:50):
we started a fire.
City utilities have resourcesreadily available to fight urban
fires and limit damages.
IOUs can spread their costsacross a large section of
population, but they still needto be able to return a dividend
to their investors.
Jim Anderson (03:07):
Okay.
Well, I've got some questionsfor Brian.
You know you're dealing withboots on the ground, mainly our
crews out there doing what theydo.
So when we talk about vegmanagement or vegetation
management and brush trimming,what exactly are we doing out
there?
What are the steps that areinvolved with it?
Brian Sharr (03:23):
Well, we have 10 areas in our system that we've
notched out, that we try to trimevery 10 years, but in those 10
areas we prioritize anythingthat comes up with our
technology we use of satellitesand drones or customer call-ins.
We're trimming all the treesaway for safety, trimming all
(03:45):
the trees away for safety, andwe're mowing the right-of-ways
to get rid of the fuel and safetravel down the right-of-way so
we can maintain, inspect and getto emergency quicker.
Jim Anderson (03:53):
Okay, I know one of the questions the members
always have why do we trim ourright-of-ways the way we do?
What's the importance of thesize and consistency of the
right-of-way trimming?
Brian Sharr (04:02):
We trim from ground to sky as far out of the
right-of-ways that we areallowed.
You know, if we have a 30-footor a 50-foot right-of-way,
that's what we're going to take,along with any danger trees we
take out.
You know we deem danger, wetake them out or top them,
mitigate the risk.
Jim Anderson (04:21):
Thank you.
What kind of resources we'retalking about crews, equipment
and planning does it take tocarry out the fire mitigation
plan here at Midstate?
We use a three-man trimmingcrew that has a 58-foot bucket
and also has a chipper alongsideand then we have a two-person
(04:47):
mowing crew in-house with asupport truck, along with
communication with federal landsthat we are working in there,
as long as they're not a closurefor birds, frogs or wildlife.
Brian Sharr (04:58):
Yeah, satellite imagery is used to find dead or
unhealthy trees that needmitigated in or outside of the
right of way.
Jim Anderson (05:04):
Okay, and I guess a follow-up, what would that be?
So we've got a lot of ourmembers, homeowners, who are
actually on the system.
What steps can they take toplay a role in our fire
mitigation plan?
How can they help us?
Brian Sharr (05:16):
They should create their own defensible space.
If they have a tree that's neartheir service line, give us a
call.
We'll come out and drop theline so you can take it down
safely.
It we'll come out and drop theline so you can take it down
safely.
It's the best thing workingwith the community and giving
them an education through ourwebsite or even calling us for
advice.
We're here to help everybodybecause it helps the community.
That's good to know for themembership.
Jim Anderson (05:36):
So let's move back to questions for both of you
guys.
Engineering system responses.
So, Tom, as we move into fireseason, what changes do we make
in our system settings and whatdoes that actually mean for the
equipment?
Tom Weller (05:49):
Well, when we hit fire level three, we go into a
non-reclose setting on ourdistribution feeders and when we
hit fire level four, we trip oninstantaneous trip settings or
extra sensitive settings thatallows for midline reclosers to
try to coordinate and try andtrip before the substation
(06:10):
feeder device does Our typicalsettings, you will see lights go
out, blink, then 10, 15 secondslater they'll blink again and
followed by another 30 secondsas we try to restore power on
that feeder.
But during non-reclose, whenthe tree or animal gets into the
(06:30):
line, we completely de-energizethe line.
When the substation breaker orrecloser sees the fault without
trying to re-energize, it.
Jim Anderson (06:40):
Okay so.
It's like trying to turn it upand make it more sensitive.
More sensitive settings, fastersettings to try and keep from
starting fire.
So if a member is trying tofigure this out in their head,
it'd be kind of like your GFIhelping protect you from getting
shocked at the sink, absolutely.
(07:02):
It's a much safer device in yourhouse than a standard plug-in.
Okay, that's good to know.
Well, I guess this leads aquestion for Brian.
So when the settings actuallytrip out the line, why does it
take us longer to actually getthe power restored?
What checks, what process doyou have to do before you bring
that line back on?
Brian Sharr (07:20):
Yeah, when we're on fire mitigation settings, we
have to look at every piece ofthat line before we can
re-energize it.
That's what our policy says andthat's what we filed with the
state.
So that means everything that'sin the air has to be looked at
until we get to the next section, where we can actually not find
a problem and heat that sectionup and move on down the line.
(07:41):
That's why it takes us so long.
Some of these feeders can be 30, 40 miles long.
Jim Anderson (07:46):
So we're actually looking for problems that could
have happened after the originalproblem.
Brian Sharr (07:49):
Yes, and you still might not find nothing.
Jim Anderson (07:52):
That's definitely good to know.
So hopefully the membersunderstand what we're doing is
to help prevent a fire.
So let's talk about this.
So this first part of thisquestion is for Tom.
Walk us through what happensthe moment a line trips.
What do we see at the co-op?
What happens?
Tom Weller (08:08):
Well, when the line trips out, the supervisors on
call will get a notificationthat a breaker opened and then
we're immediately calling analignment to try and get him
started moving in the directionto start patrolling, direction
to start patrolling.
And then we have a lot ofdifferent systems that we can
look at, different software.
(08:34):
We can look at our meters tosee what meters are out.
We can look at our SCADA systemto see, SCADA stands for
Supervisor, Control and DataAcquisition to see what devices
tripped out, what kind of faultcurrents we might have seen, and
try and help pinpoint wherethat location is at.
Jim Anderson (08:47):
Okay, this kind of dovetails in, Brian, what you
just talked about earlier.
So Tom gets ahold of the crew,gets ahold of you, lets you know
we've got an outage out there.
So, basically, physically thecrew, what's their next step?
First job for them is to go towhere the outage started and
make sure that everything iswhat it is.
It is off.
(09:07):
Then they start from that spotand they themselves down looking
at every piece of line, andgenerally we'll have a couple
guys.
Hopefully.
one can jump ahead you know 10,12 spans or whatever and get
ahead of them.
They can work together and workthemselves down the line until
the next open and then we canenergize that piece and then
continue to pick people up as wedon't find anything.
(09:35):
Okay.
So I guess, tom, you brought upa lot about technology
equipment enhancement.
Seems like today technology hasjust taken off and it's growing
like crazy.
What kind of equipment ismid-statement installing and
what time of new, like smartswitches or other type of
software, do we have thatactually helps us respond to
this stuff a little faster.
Tom Weller (09:55):
Yeah, well, we're always updating our equipment in
our substations, trying to havethe piece of equipment there
that is capable of trying toanalyze the faults and where
they occurred.
We have our supervisory,control and data acquisition
system that relays thatinformation from the relays in
the substation and from themidline reclosers.
(10:16):
So we have a lot of mid-linereclosers out there to help
sectionalize the system up sothat we're not having to
troubleshoot an entire feeder ifwe have the ability to
sectionalize it.
If we have the ability tosectionalize it, we also have
fault indicators out there thatwill tell us if the fault
(10:38):
happened beyond that point andto help us to try and
troubleshoot and have a fasterresponse.
Jim Anderson (10:43):
Okay, you know I hear a lot out there and I'm
sure you guys heard this too.
I remember hearing about thesearc-containing fuses.
That's the new technology thateverybody's trying to go to to
help keep the fuse from startinga fire.
Do they make a difference?
Tom Weller (10:58):
Well, they can, you know, with their standard fuses.
They're a fuse link inside atube and so when it blows, it
blows hot metal out into thetube.
So the current limiting fuses,or arc fuses, are filled with
sand and they help contain thatmolten fuse link from blowing
(11:19):
out so that sand turns to glassand encapsulates it.
But they're very expensive andthey don't cover all the fuses
sizes that we need to cover.
So instead we're replacing someof the higher fuses with oil
circuit reclosers and replacingthe higher circuit reclosers
(11:42):
with midline reclosers that areelectronic.
Jim Anderson (11:47):
How many fuses do you actually think Midstate
actually has on the line, just aballpark?
Tom Weller (11:57):
Well, we have 20,000 members and I would estimate
that we have about 20,000 fuseson our system, even though a
transformer can serve three orfour.
Out on the desert we havemembers with pivots that they
have three fuses per transformer, so roughly 20,000.
Jim Anderson (12:10):
So the cost factor of the fuses is definitely a
consideration that Midstate hasto take in when we put this
together.
So, with technology evolving,are we at a point to where we
can see real-time what'shappening on our lines?
Are we close?
Tom Weller (12:24):
We're very close because of our metering system
that we have.
We have an outage managementsystem that integrates with the
SCADA system and the meteringsystem that we have.
We have an outage managementsystem that integrates with the
SCADA system and the meteringsystem integrates with the OMS
system and SCADA.
We're getting closer, buttrying to put all those systems
together is very expensive andtakes a lot of time.
(12:45):
So right now we're gettingclose to where we can see real
time what's happening on oursystem and as we change older
equipment to newer equipment, wemake enhancements and
improvements all the time.
Jim Anderson (13:01):
It's definitely good to know With the
improvement of our switchingequipment.
Also, there's a lot of membersseeing with drones.
We've got a drone company thatdoes a lot of our LiDAR flying
over and their techniquetechnology.
So how are you guys usingdrones right now to monitor or
inspect the high-risk areas andare they helping us find
(13:22):
problems?
Brian Sharr (13:24):
Yes, we are.
We're using both drones andsatellite imagery.
They both got great points forwhat they do and the satellite
imagery comes in really handywhen drones can't fly because of
fire danger access.
We have so much federal lands.
We can actually get a picturefrom outer space and not have to
deal with any of the wildlifeor the fire mitigation stuff or
(13:46):
that stuff like that, becauseit's huge for us.
But yeah, drones and satelliteimagery are going to be a
constant part going forward.
Jim Anderson (13:55):
is it like Google Earth when somebody's looking at
it, or is it more closer toreal-time technology that we're
getting out of satellites withina 24 or 48-hour window?
Brian Sharr (14:05):
Right now we're not getting that yet, but we do get
about a month lag on some ofthe stuff, so fairly quick.
It's good, definitely for stuffthat we can mitigate risk with
with hazard trees and stuff likethat.
Jim Anderson (14:18):
Are there places we can use drones, with Forest
Service and with wildlife goingthrough its mating seasons, that
the satellite's getting us into, that we weren't able to access
before?
So is there going to be abenefit to actually having more
satellite in the system thandrones, or is it still going to
be a mix.
Brian Sharr (14:36):
It's still going to be a mix on my part.
We're going to have to have amix.
We just have the satelliteimagery for more of a backup
because of the wildlifelimitations we have.
Tom Weller (14:48):
The drones are great because we can actually zoom in
on an insulator top, see ifit's cracked.
We can find problems withlightning arresters by using
infrared technology.
With the drones we can pinpointwhere we have bad lightning
arresters.
So the drones definitely havetheir place and definitely
(15:09):
provide a big advantage.
We had a problem out in KlamathMarsh Wildlife Refuge.
Our lines used to be on a dikein the middle of the marsh and
inaccessible only by boat, so wehad to use drones to fly it.
Jim Anderson (15:24):
It's a good example of how we're actually
getting technology to get us inareas that we couldn't get into
before.
So, tom, I have more questionsfor you.
So, yeah, you see, ai is allover the place.
I know you've got a couple ofengineers that are really loving
the advanced technology thatwe've got the AI.
I won't call them out.
I'm sure they're going to belisted as some of who they are.
So we've got this AI that'shelping us monitor our systems.
(15:47):
What is that actually going todo for us in the future, as we
bring more AI in to help ?
Tom Weller (15:54):
It's going to point out where we have dead
vegetation that you know.
Using AI dashes, a company thatwe're using with satellites,
we're able to identify deadvegetation off the right-of-way,
and we can do that severaltimes a year.
It just helps us eliminate that.
We can use AI to control ourloads and monitor our loads.
(16:18):
So, with our SCADA system, weuse a product called Power BI to
analyze everything that we'redoing.
So it helps us with loadshaping, voltage optimization.
Jim Anderson (16:38):
So if the AI is just coming in here and we have
it fly a line or you guys lookat something out there, can it
actually flag an area?
Can it identify an area?
That's a bad area that we needto address?
Tom Weller (16:47):
Absolutely.
I mean it can identify where weneed to go trim vegetation and
where we need to spend ourresources more economically.
Jim Anderson (16:59):
Sounds like we are making some great advances
Sounds like we are makingadvances that will really help
to membership out and protectthe co-op.
So you know we all talk aboutwildlife.
I think some people don'trealize exactly how many
wildfires or fires actually getstarted by wildlife.
So it's not just weather thatcause problems for us.
How do animals like birds andsquirrels actually end up
causing a fire?
(17:20):
And I know this might be alittle sensitive for some folks
out there, but this is a causeof a lot of our fires that we
have out in the desert and insome of the other areas.
Brian Sharr (17:32):
Yeah, birds build nests on poles and equipment
that we have out on the system,and when they build the nest
they always bring tree limbs andgrass and once that gets built
up on there it cuts ourclearances down and then pretty
soon you've got a fire on yourhands and it falls to the ground
on fire.
Squirrels climb poles, gatheron equipment too and they chew
through protection.
Then they end up getting burntoff the transformer or pole and
(17:56):
they fall on the ground andcause a fire.
And sometimes birds just comeflying through there and they
get into it and they fall to theground on fire.
We've seen that several timeswith the ravens and the crows
out there in the desert.
Jim Anderson (18:09):
So are there anything we can, anything that
we're doing proactively as faras trying to help protect these
incidents on the wires?
Brian Sharr (18:16):
Yeah, we've gone to a new design.
You know Raptor framing, whatwe call in the line trade.
Get the phases out farther, putsome protection in between the
phases so they don't land ontransformers, along with
insulated wires for tappingtransformers or fuses, putting
bird guard between phases and ontransformers and reclosures.
Jim Anderson (18:37):
You know Midstate is kind of unique compared to a
lot of utilities.
About 75% of our lines runthrough federal lands, Forest
Service, BLM, state land.
Are there seasonal restrictionsthat impact our ability to
access lines to do maintenance?
Brian Sharr (18:53):
Yes, we have a lot of that goes on.
It's very impactful to us.
You need the weather tocooperate with winter or summer.
Certain areas we can be inthere, October 1st to March
31st, well, this might be at6,000, 7,000 feet.
So you've got a four to sixweek window to work on this line
.
You've got to get thatprioritized and called out.
(19:14):
Yeah, there's a lot to it.
It's tough because we havecabin areas, we have bird
nesting areas, we have frogareas, we have unknown wolf
activity areas, we have a lot ofthings that we have to deal
with, and it's all over oursystem.
Jim Anderson (19:30):
Yeah, exactly.
So I know that you guys work alot with the Department of Fish
and Wildlife, us Forest ServiceBureau of Land Management.
Are there other things you haveto do before you go out and
trim?
Brian Sharr (19:41):
Yes, you have to get ahold of them and make sure
there is not a restriction onthat area and then, if there is,
and if it's work that you needto do, they need to go in and
actually verify that there's nota nest and or wolves or calving
going on right off the get go.
Now if it's an emergency, wecan get a waiver, but we still
need to contact and moveforward, obviously.
Jim Anderson (20:07):
So, outside of just the animals, do you also
have to get a permit to actuallyget into an area to trim with
Forest Service land?
Yes, you do, and does thathamper how we can actually get
out and trim?
Brian Sharr (20:14):
Yes, it does.
The only way you can actuallygo in.
There would be an emergency,but you still have to notify.
And then, if you want to trimit, you've got to make sure to
get a hold of them.
And then they've got to study,they've got to go through, and
it could take you six months,and then you've got to be able
to give them a date when youwant to show up and if that date
is even available, with firedanger and or winter.
Jim Anderson (20:35):
Right
Brian Sharr (20:50):
Yeah, we're constantly prioritizing our work
, whether it be, you know,maintenance on the lines or
trimming or mowing.
Uh, there's a lot to wranglebecause it seems like some of
this stuff changes here andthere.
It was, uh wasn't in an area,now it is.
You know, animals don't alwayshave in the same area, so pretty
soon you got a whole linethat's calving area for two and
(21:10):
a half months so I guess youknow, as, moving toward the end
of our talk here, I want to talkabout the shifting fire seasons
, looking ahead.
Jim Anderson (21:17):
So this is for both you guys.
Every year, fire season startsearlier and earlier.
It seems like there's alwayssomething happening that's
causing us to reevaluate oursituation.
How are you guys adjusting tothat and what are you planning
to do if this trend continues?
Brian Sharr (21:35):
Biggest challenge I seek tacking the constantly
dying trees for us and agingequipment We've been in the
business a long time so we dohave some older infrastructure
out there and the constant coststo mitigate the risk.
I mean this is expensive stuff.
That's why we're trying to usetechnology to help cut down on
this cost and be more proactiveand more hardening of our system
(21:56):
and we're trying new materialsthat have been tested and they
seem to be working really goodwith what we do to help mitigate
risk going forward.
Tom Weller (22:04):
Yeah, I think, tacking on to what Brian says,
that every day we look at firelevels out there, we go to the
BLM website, we go to the USForest Service website, we look
at FEMA and see what kind ofstorms might be blowing in and
we combine all that informationtogether and we issue a weather
(22:25):
report to our line crews and weadjust our substation settings
according to what we see outthere.
As everything dries out, wehave to go to the more sensitive
settings to keep fires fromstarting.
Jim Anderson (22:38):
And you brought up weather reports and I think
Midstate's probably a littleahead on the curve.
We actually have true weatherstations at some of our
substations that you guys areputting out there, so we're
actually getting data that's notjust coming from a home-mounted
unit.
We've got actually a weatherstation that could be used by
NOAA or any of the others outthere that could report back.
(22:59):
So, is that being incorporatedinto the decisions that you're
making?
Tom Weller (23:03):
Oh, it definitely plays into what we're doing.
I mean, the reason we put themout there is so we could have
the most up-to-date, accurateinformation that we possibly can
.
Jim Anderson (23:14):
So for both of you guys, what's the biggest
challenge that you see forMidstate and fire mitigation and
how are we going to prepare forit?
Brian Sharr (23:25):
We are definitely, you know, trying to take an
aggressive approach to mitigateall the risk, hardening
infrastructure and ourvegetation management.
Most of all, we need acommitment from our members, as
well as to do what they can doat their homes.
You know, be a part of thecommunity, be part of helping
mitigate the risk as a wholecommunity.
Tom Weller (23:44):
They need to allow us to trim the trees along the
right of away.
But the biggest challenge Ithink that I see is our aging
infrastructure.
You know our system wasstarting construction in the
1950s and we have a lot of thosepoles still out there and a lot
(24:04):
of the practices of the pastdealing with forest service.
They wouldn't let us trimunless it was critical.
So, you know we have a lot ofeducating the forest service on
best practices and trying tominimize impact of danger trees
and using our advanced equipmentsatellite imagery and we are
(24:25):
we're actively embracing newtechnology and we're actively
fire hardening our transmissionand distribution grid.
We're utilizing the bestpractices to employ fire
mitigation in our designs andconstruction.
Jim Anderson (24:39):
So, kind of to wrap this up and maybe put a bow
on this one.
Final thoughts what do you wantthe members to know about all
the work happening behind thescenes to keep the power safe
and reliable?
Brian Sharr (24:50):
Well, we have, you know, constant training in this
utility, with our guysconstantly working with the
Forest Service, BLM, otherpublic and private entities.
We do a lot to get our guys tobe successful.
You know, prepare them to besuccessful for the employees,
for our customers, and that'straining.
(25:10):
Safety meetings, we do jobbriefings, we do the weather
reports.
We know where they're going tobe.
We have a air quality on that.
If it's bad in an area, we'llchange workflows and put them
somewhere else to keep our guyssafe.
Tom Weller (25:27):
Now I guess one of the things I would like to
stress to our membership is thatwe value every dollar that we
invest in providing a longerlasting fire hardened electric
system.
Our members are investing moneyin us and we're investing it in
our infrastructure and we'retrying to be a responsible and
forward-looking cooperativethat's, building lines that will
survive fires and should lastfor years to come.
Jim Anderson (25:49):
Thanks, guys.
I really appreciate you guysspending a little time.
I know your schedules arereally busy, as is everybody
here at the co-op.
If you tuned in today to PowerFactor, appreciate it.
Hopefully you found thisconversation a little bit more
in-depth what actually happenswith fire mitigation, how we're
trying to prepare for it and howwe address it here at the co-op
.
We've got a lot of good topicscoming your way, including
behind-the-scenes looks at theMember Service Department, the
(26:12):
MSRs, and an episode that breaksdown electric rates.
I know everybody's anxious tohear about rates.
That's coming up here prettyquick.
We're going to talk about howthe rates are set, what they
cover and what changes are onthe horizon.
But feel free to actually getinto midstateelectric.
coop to download this episode.
(26:33):
Like it.
Pass it off to somebody if youwould.
We definitely are doing thisfor you to give you guys an idea
of what's happening here atMidstate behind the scenes.
You will hear more from Brianand Tom on other episodes coming
up.
But until next time, stay safe,stay informed and thank you for
being a valued Midstate member.
Welcome back to Power Factor, a podcast powered
by Midstate Electric Cooperative.
I'm your host, Jim Anderson,the CEO and General Manager.
Today, we're diving into atopic that's at the top of
everybody's mind with wildfirepreparedness and what happens
behind the scenes in Midstate.
As wildfire season grows longerand longer and becomes more
(00:28):
intense, electric utilitiesacross the West are making tough
decisions on how to keep thecommunity safe.
At Midstate, safety is one ofthe core things we do, from
maintaining power to making highstakes calls during extreme
weather events.
Joining us today are two of thekey leaders who help drive the
decisions behind the scenes OurOperations Manager, Brian Sharr,
and Engineering Manager, TomWeller.
(00:49):
They'll be answering some ofthe most common questions that
we get from our members.
Whether you're a longtimemember or new to the service
territory, this episode willgive you a behind-the-scenes
look at the proactive steps thatwe are taking to protect you,
your family and the grid that werely on.
Let's get started.
So, Brian, Tom, welcome, Thankyou, Thank you.
So we're going to start outtoday with some questions for
(01:11):
both of you.
We hear a lot about firemitigation.
Can you explain to the memberswhat fire mitigation actually
means in the utility world.
Brian Sharr (01:20):
Yeah, wildfire mitigation involves taking
proactive steps to minimize risk, hardening of the grid,
enhancing power line safetysettings, and being proactive in
vegetation management andstrategic use of technology to
control power flows, and alsoworking across all public and
private entities.
Tom Weller (01:38):
Yeah, we are trying to mitigate or lower the risk of
starting a fire due to birds,squirrels, trees and vegetation
getting into our lines andstarting a fire.
Also, we're building new linesthat will survive a fire, if a
fire should occur.
Jim Anderson (01:53):
That's good.
So, from your standpoint, whyis fire mitigation such a
priority for a co-op likeMidstate, and what makes us
different from a muni or a IOU?
Brian Sharr (02:04):
Midstate is a member-owned cooperative and
safety is always our toppriority.
Protecting the people we serveis at the heart of everything we
do.
Unlike investor-owned utilities, which are profit-driven and
often operate in more urbanareas with greater
infrastructure and resources,Midstate serves a large rural
territory where resources aremore limited and our challenges
(02:27):
are unique.
Tom Weller (02:28):
Yeah, Midstate, for the most part, is surrounded by
forest, dense vegetative areasand grasslands, which are a
rural setting.
A major fire to a smallcooperative like ours could
cause damage to property owners,risk of loss of life and homes,
and the cost of a fire wouldcause our rates to skyrocket if
(02:50):
we started a fire.
City utilities have resourcesreadily available to fight urban
fires and limit damages.
IOUs can spread their costsacross a large section of
population, but they still needto be able to return a dividend
to their investors.
Jim Anderson (03:07):
Okay.
Well, I've got some questionsfor Brian.
You know you're dealing withboots on the ground, mainly our
crews out there doing what theydo.
So when we talk about vegmanagement or vegetation
management and brush trimming,what exactly are we doing out
there?
What are the steps that areinvolved with it?
Brian Sharr (03:23):
Well, we have 10 areas in our system that we've
notched out, that we try to trimevery 10 years, but in those 10
areas we prioritize anythingthat comes up with our
technology we use of satellitesand drones or customer call-ins.
We're trimming all the treesaway for safety, trimming all
(03:45):
the trees away for safety, andwe're mowing the right-of-ways
to get rid of the fuel and safetravel down the right-of-way so
we can maintain, inspect and getto emergency quicker.
Jim Anderson (03:53):
Okay, I know one of the questions the members
always have why do we trim ourright-of-ways the way we do?
What's the importance of thesize and consistency of the
right-of-way trimming?
Brian Sharr (04:02):
We trim from ground to sky as far out of the
right-of-ways that we areallowed.
You know, if we have a 30-footor a 50-foot right-of-way,
that's what we're going to take,along with any danger trees we
take out.
You know we deem danger, wetake them out or top them,
mitigate the risk.
Jim Anderson (04:21):
Thank you.
What kind of resources we'retalking about crews, equipment
and planning does it take tocarry out the fire mitigation
plan here at Midstate?
We use a three-man trimmingcrew that has a 58-foot bucket
and also has a chipper alongsideand then we have a two-person
(04:47):
mowing crew in-house with asupport truck, along with
communication with federal landsthat we are working in there,
as long as they're not a closurefor birds, frogs or wildlife.
Brian Sharr (04:58):
Yeah, satellite imagery is used to find dead or
unhealthy trees that needmitigated in or outside of the
right of way.
Jim Anderson (05:04):
Okay, and I guess a follow-up, what would that be?
So we've got a lot of ourmembers, homeowners, who are
actually on the system.
What steps can they take toplay a role in our fire
mitigation plan?
How can they help us?
Brian Sharr (05:16):
They should create their own defensible space.
If they have a tree that's neartheir service line, give us a
call.
We'll come out and drop theline so you can take it down
safely.
It we'll come out and drop theline so you can take it down
safely.
It's the best thing workingwith the community and giving
them an education through ourwebsite or even calling us for
advice.
We're here to help everybodybecause it helps the community.
That's good to know for themembership.
Jim Anderson (05:36):
So let's move back to questions for both of you
guys.
Engineering system responses.
So, Tom, as we move into fireseason, what changes do we make
in our system settings and whatdoes that actually mean for the
equipment?
Tom Weller (05:49):
Well, when we hit fire level three, we go into a
non-reclose setting on ourdistribution feeders and when we
hit fire level four, we trip oninstantaneous trip settings or
extra sensitive settings thatallows for midline reclosers to
try to coordinate and try andtrip before the substation
(06:10):
feeder device does Our typicalsettings, you will see lights go
out, blink, then 10, 15 secondslater they'll blink again and
followed by another 30 secondsas we try to restore power on
that feeder.
But during non-reclose, whenthe tree or animal gets into the
(06:30):
line, we completely de-energizethe line.
When the substation breaker orrecloser sees the fault without
trying to re-energize, it.
Jim Anderson (06:40):
Okay so.
It's like trying to turn it upand make it more sensitive.
More sensitive settings, fastersettings to try and keep from
starting fire.
So if a member is trying tofigure this out in their head,
it'd be kind of like your GFIhelping protect you from getting
shocked at the sink, absolutely.
(07:02):
It's a much safer device in yourhouse than a standard plug-in.
Okay, that's good to know.
Well, I guess this leads aquestion for Brian.
So when the settings actuallytrip out the line, why does it
take us longer to actually getthe power restored?
What checks, what process doyou have to do before you bring
that line back on?
Brian Sharr (07:20):
Yeah, when we're on fire mitigation settings, we
have to look at every piece ofthat line before we can
re-energize it.
That's what our policy says andthat's what we filed with the
state.
So that means everything that'sin the air has to be looked at
until we get to the next section, where we can actually not find
a problem and heat that sectionup and move on down the line.
(07:41):
That's why it takes us so long.
Some of these feeders can be 30, 40 miles long.
Jim Anderson (07:46):
So we're actually looking for problems that could
have happened after the originalproblem.
Brian Sharr (07:49):
Yes, and you still might not find nothing.
Jim Anderson (07:52):
That's definitely good to know.
So hopefully the membersunderstand what we're doing is
to help prevent a fire.
So let's talk about this.
So this first part of thisquestion is for Tom.
Walk us through what happensthe moment a line trips.
What do we see at the co-op?
What happens?
Tom Weller (08:08):
Well, when the line trips out, the supervisors on
call will get a notificationthat a breaker opened and then
we're immediately calling analignment to try and get him
started moving in the directionto start patrolling, direction
to start patrolling.
And then we have a lot ofdifferent systems that we can
look at, different software.
(08:34):
We can look at our meters tosee what meters are out.
We can look at our SCADA systemto see, SCADA stands for
Supervisor, Control and DataAcquisition to see what devices
tripped out, what kind of faultcurrents we might have seen, and
try and help pinpoint wherethat location is at.
Jim Anderson (08:47):
Okay, this kind of dovetails in, Brian, what you
just talked about earlier.
So Tom gets ahold of the crew,gets ahold of you, lets you know
we've got an outage out there.
So, basically, physically thecrew, what's their next step?
First job for them is to go towhere the outage started and
make sure that everything iswhat it is.
It is off.
(09:07):
Then they start from that spotand they themselves down looking
at every piece of line, andgenerally we'll have a couple
guys.
Hopefully.
one can jump ahead you know 10,12 spans or whatever and get
ahead of them.
They can work together and workthemselves down the line until
the next open and then we canenergize that piece and then
continue to pick people up as wedon't find anything.
(09:35):
Okay.
So I guess, tom, you brought upa lot about technology
equipment enhancement.
Seems like today technology hasjust taken off and it's growing
like crazy.
What kind of equipment ismid-statement installing and
what time of new, like smartswitches or other type of
software, do we have thatactually helps us respond to
this stuff a little faster.
Tom Weller (09:55):
Yeah, well, we're always updating our equipment in
our substations, trying to havethe piece of equipment there
that is capable of trying toanalyze the faults and where
they occurred.
We have our supervisory,control and data acquisition
system that relays thatinformation from the relays in
the substation and from themidline reclosers.
(10:16):
So we have a lot of mid-linereclosers out there to help
sectionalize the system up sothat we're not having to
troubleshoot an entire feeder ifwe have the ability to
sectionalize it.
If we have the ability tosectionalize it, we also have
fault indicators out there thatwill tell us if the fault
(10:38):
happened beyond that point andto help us to try and
troubleshoot and have a fasterresponse.
Jim Anderson (10:43):
Okay, you know I hear a lot out there and I'm
sure you guys heard this too.
I remember hearing about thesearc-containing fuses.
That's the new technology thateverybody's trying to go to to
help keep the fuse from startinga fire.
Do they make a difference?
Tom Weller (10:58):
Well, they can, you know, with their standard fuses.
They're a fuse link inside atube and so when it blows, it
blows hot metal out into thetube.
So the current limiting fuses,or arc fuses, are filled with
sand and they help contain thatmolten fuse link from blowing
(11:19):
out so that sand turns to glassand encapsulates it.
But they're very expensive andthey don't cover all the fuses
sizes that we need to cover.
So instead we're replacing someof the higher fuses with oil
circuit reclosers and replacingthe higher circuit reclosers
(11:42):
with midline reclosers that areelectronic.
Jim Anderson (11:47):
How many fuses do you actually think Midstate
actually has on the line, just aballpark?
Tom Weller (11:57):
Well, we have 20,000 members and I would estimate
that we have about 20,000 fuseson our system, even though a
transformer can serve three orfour.
Out on the desert we havemembers with pivots that they
have three fuses per transformer, so roughly 20,000.
Jim Anderson (12:10):
So the cost factor of the fuses is definitely a
consideration that Midstate hasto take in when we put this
together.
So, with technology evolving,are we at a point to where we
can see real-time what'shappening on our lines?
Are we close?
Tom Weller (12:24):
We're very close because of our metering system
that we have.
We have an outage managementsystem that integrates with the
SCADA system and the meteringsystem that we have.
We have an outage managementsystem that integrates with the
SCADA system and the meteringsystem integrates with the OMS
system and SCADA.
We're getting closer, buttrying to put all those systems
together is very expensive andtakes a lot of time.
(12:45):
So right now we're gettingclose to where we can see real
time what's happening on oursystem and as we change older
equipment to newer equipment, wemake enhancements and
improvements all the time.
Jim Anderson (13:01):
It's definitely good to know With the
improvement of our switchingequipment.
Also, there's a lot of membersseeing with drones.
We've got a drone company thatdoes a lot of our LiDAR flying
over and their techniquetechnology.
So how are you guys usingdrones right now to monitor or
inspect the high-risk areas andare they helping us find
(13:22):
problems?
Brian Sharr (13:24):
Yes, we are.
We're using both drones andsatellite imagery.
They both got great points forwhat they do and the satellite
imagery comes in really handywhen drones can't fly because of
fire danger access.
We have so much federal lands.
We can actually get a picturefrom outer space and not have to
deal with any of the wildlifeor the fire mitigation stuff or
(13:46):
that stuff like that, becauseit's huge for us.
But yeah, drones and satelliteimagery are going to be a
constant part going forward.
Jim Anderson (13:55):
is it like Google Earth when somebody's looking at
it, or is it more closer toreal-time technology that we're
getting out of satellites withina 24 or 48-hour window?
Brian Sharr (14:05):
Right now we're not getting that yet, but we do get
about a month lag on some ofthe stuff, so fairly quick.
It's good, definitely for stuffthat we can mitigate risk with
with hazard trees and stuff likethat.
Jim Anderson (14:18):
Are there places we can use drones, with Forest
Service and with wildlife goingthrough its mating seasons, that
the satellite's getting us into, that we weren't able to access
before?
So is there going to be abenefit to actually having more
satellite in the system thandrones, or is it still going to
be a mix.
Brian Sharr (14:36):
It's still going to be a mix on my part.
We're going to have to have amix.
We just have the satelliteimagery for more of a backup
because of the wildlifelimitations we have.
Tom Weller (14:48):
The drones are great because we can actually zoom in
on an insulator top, see ifit's cracked.
We can find problems withlightning arresters by using
infrared technology.
With the drones we can pinpointwhere we have bad lightning
arresters.
So the drones definitely havetheir place and definitely
(15:09):
provide a big advantage.
We had a problem out in KlamathMarsh Wildlife Refuge.
Our lines used to be on a dikein the middle of the marsh and
inaccessible only by boat, so wehad to use drones to fly it.
Jim Anderson (15:24):
It's a good example of how we're actually
getting technology to get us inareas that we couldn't get into
before.
So, tom, I have more questionsfor you.
So, yeah, you see, ai is allover the place.
I know you've got a couple ofengineers that are really loving
the advanced technology thatwe've got the AI.
I won't call them out.
I'm sure they're going to belisted as some of who they are.
So we've got this AI that'shelping us monitor our systems.
(15:47):
What is that actually going todo for us in the future, as we
bring more AI in to help ?
Tom Weller (15:54):
It's going to point out where we have dead
vegetation that you know.
Using AI dashes, a company thatwe're using with satellites,
we're able to identify deadvegetation off the right-of-way,
and we can do that severaltimes a year.
It just helps us eliminate that.
We can use AI to control ourloads and monitor our loads.
(16:18):
So, with our SCADA system, weuse a product called Power BI to
analyze everything that we'redoing.
So it helps us with loadshaping, voltage optimization.
Jim Anderson (16:38):
So if the AI is just coming in here and we have
it fly a line or you guys lookat something out there, can it
actually flag an area?
Can it identify an area?
That's a bad area that we needto address?
Tom Weller (16:47):
Absolutely.
I mean it can identify where weneed to go trim vegetation and
where we need to spend ourresources more economically.
Jim Anderson (16:59):
Sounds like we are making some great advances
Sounds like we are makingadvances that will really help
to membership out and protectthe co-op.
So you know we all talk aboutwildlife.
I think some people don'trealize exactly how many
wildfires or fires actually getstarted by wildlife.
So it's not just weather thatcause problems for us.
How do animals like birds andsquirrels actually end up
causing a fire?
(17:20):
And I know this might be alittle sensitive for some folks
out there, but this is a causeof a lot of our fires that we
have out in the desert and insome of the other areas.
Brian Sharr (17:32):
Yeah, birds build nests on poles and equipment
that we have out on the system,and when they build the nest
they always bring tree limbs andgrass and once that gets built
up on there it cuts ourclearances down and then pretty
soon you've got a fire on yourhands and it falls to the ground
on fire.
Squirrels climb poles, gatheron equipment too and they chew
through protection.
Then they end up getting burntoff the transformer or pole and
(17:56):
they fall on the ground andcause a fire.
And sometimes birds just comeflying through there and they
get into it and they fall to theground on fire.
We've seen that several timeswith the ravens and the crows
out there in the desert.
Jim Anderson (18:09):
So are there anything we can, anything that
we're doing proactively as faras trying to help protect these
incidents on the wires?
Brian Sharr (18:16):
Yeah, we've gone to a new design.
You know Raptor framing, whatwe call in the line trade.
Get the phases out farther, putsome protection in between the
phases so they don't land ontransformers, along with
insulated wires for tappingtransformers or fuses, putting
bird guard between phases and ontransformers and reclosures.
Jim Anderson (18:37):
You know Midstate is kind of unique compared to a
lot of utilities.
About 75% of our lines runthrough federal lands, Forest
Service, BLM, state land.
Are there seasonal restrictionsthat impact our ability to
access lines to do maintenance?
Brian Sharr (18:53):
Yes, we have a lot of that goes on.
It's very impactful to us.
You need the weather tocooperate with winter or summer.
Certain areas we can be inthere, October 1st to March
31st, well, this might be at6,000, 7,000 feet.
So you've got a four to sixweek window to work on this line
.
You've got to get thatprioritized and called out.
(19:14):
Yeah, there's a lot to it.
It's tough because we havecabin areas, we have bird
nesting areas, we have frogareas, we have unknown wolf
activity areas, we have a lot ofthings that we have to deal
with, and it's all over oursystem.
Jim Anderson (19:30):
Yeah, exactly.
So I know that you guys work alot with the Department of Fish
and Wildlife, us Forest ServiceBureau of Land Management.
Are there other things you haveto do before you go out and
trim?
Brian Sharr (19:41):
Yes, you have to get ahold of them and make sure
there is not a restriction onthat area and then, if there is,
and if it's work that you needto do, they need to go in and
actually verify that there's nota nest and or wolves or calving
going on right off the get go.
Now if it's an emergency, wecan get a waiver, but we still
need to contact and moveforward, obviously.
Jim Anderson (20:07):
So, outside of just the animals, do you also
have to get a permit to actuallyget into an area to trim with
Forest Service land?
Yes, you do, and does thathamper how we can actually get
out and trim?
Brian Sharr (20:14):
Yes, it does.
The only way you can actuallygo in.
There would be an emergency,but you still have to notify.
And then, if you want to trimit, you've got to make sure to
get a hold of them.
And then they've got to study,they've got to go through, and
it could take you six months,and then you've got to be able
to give them a date when youwant to show up and if that date
is even available, with firedanger and or winter.
Jim Anderson (20:35):
Right
Brian Sharr (20:50):
Yeah, we're constantly prioritizing our work
, whether it be, you know,maintenance on the lines or
trimming or mowing.
Uh, there's a lot to wranglebecause it seems like some of
this stuff changes here andthere.
It was, uh wasn't in an area,now it is.
You know, animals don't alwayshave in the same area, so pretty
soon you got a whole linethat's calving area for two and
(21:10):
a half months so I guess youknow, as, moving toward the end
of our talk here, I want to talkabout the shifting fire seasons
, looking ahead.
Jim Anderson (21:17):
So this is for both you guys.
Every year, fire season startsearlier and earlier.
It seems like there's alwayssomething happening that's
causing us to reevaluate oursituation.
How are you guys adjusting tothat and what are you planning
to do if this trend continues?
Brian Sharr (21:35):
Biggest challenge I seek tacking the constantly
dying trees for us and agingequipment We've been in the
business a long time so we dohave some older infrastructure
out there and the constant coststo mitigate the risk.
I mean this is expensive stuff.
That's why we're trying to usetechnology to help cut down on
this cost and be more proactiveand more hardening of our system
(21:56):
and we're trying new materialsthat have been tested and they
seem to be working really goodwith what we do to help mitigate
risk going forward.
Tom Weller (22:04):
Yeah, I think, tacking on to what Brian says,
that every day we look at firelevels out there, we go to the
BLM website, we go to the USForest Service website, we look
at FEMA and see what kind ofstorms might be blowing in and
we combine all that informationtogether and we issue a weather
(22:25):
report to our line crews and weadjust our substation settings
according to what we see outthere.
As everything dries out, wehave to go to the more sensitive
settings to keep fires fromstarting.
Jim Anderson (22:38):
And you brought up weather reports and I think
Midstate's probably a littleahead on the curve.
We actually have true weatherstations at some of our
substations that you guys areputting out there, so we're
actually getting data that's notjust coming from a home-mounted
unit.
We've got actually a weatherstation that could be used by
NOAA or any of the others outthere that could report back.
(22:59):
So, is that being incorporatedinto the decisions that you're
making?
Tom Weller (23:03):
Oh, it definitely plays into what we're doing.
I mean, the reason we put themout there is so we could have
the most up-to-date, accurateinformation that we possibly can
.
Jim Anderson (23:14):
So for both of you guys, what's the biggest
challenge that you see forMidstate and fire mitigation and
how are we going to prepare forit?
Brian Sharr (23:25):
We are definitely, you know, trying to take an
aggressive approach to mitigateall the risk, hardening
infrastructure and ourvegetation management.
Most of all, we need acommitment from our members, as
well as to do what they can doat their homes.
You know, be a part of thecommunity, be part of helping
mitigate the risk as a wholecommunity.
Tom Weller (23:44):
They need to allow us to trim the trees along the
right of away.
But the biggest challenge Ithink that I see is our aging
infrastructure.
You know our system wasstarting construction in the
1950s and we have a lot of thosepoles still out there and a lot
(24:04):
of the practices of the pastdealing with forest service.
They wouldn't let us trimunless it was critical.
So, you know we have a lot ofeducating the forest service on
best practices and trying tominimize impact of danger trees
and using our advanced equipmentsatellite imagery and we are
(24:25):
we're actively embracing newtechnology and we're actively
fire hardening our transmissionand distribution grid.
We're utilizing the bestpractices to employ fire
mitigation in our designs andconstruction.
Jim Anderson (24:39):
So, kind of to wrap this up and maybe put a bow
on this one.
Final thoughts what do you wantthe members to know about all
the work happening behind thescenes to keep the power safe
and reliable?
Brian Sharr (24:50):
Well, we have, you know, constant training in this
utility, with our guysconstantly working with the
Forest Service, BLM, otherpublic and private entities.
We do a lot to get our guys tobe successful.
You know, prepare them to besuccessful for the employees,
for our customers, and that'straining.
(25:10):
Safety meetings, we do jobbriefings, we do the weather
reports.
We know where they're going tobe.
We have a air quality on that.
If it's bad in an area, we'llchange workflows and put them
somewhere else to keep our guyssafe.
Tom Weller (25:27):
Now I guess one of the things I would like to
stress to our membership is thatwe value every dollar that we
invest in providing a longerlasting fire hardened electric
system.
Our members are investing moneyin us and we're investing it in
our infrastructure and we'retrying to be a responsible and
forward-looking cooperativethat's, building lines that will
survive fires and should lastfor years to come.
Jim Anderson (25:49):
Thanks, guys.
I really appreciate you guysspending a little time.
I know your schedules arereally busy, as is everybody
here at the co-op.
If you tuned in today to PowerFactor, appreciate it.
Hopefully you found thisconversation a little bit more
in-depth what actually happenswith fire mitigation, how we're
trying to prepare for it and howwe address it here at the co-op
.
We've got a lot of good topicscoming your way, including
behind-the-scenes looks at theMember Service Department, the
(26:12):
MSRs, and an episode that breaksdown electric rates.
I know everybody's anxious tohear about rates.
That's coming up here prettyquick.
We're going to talk about howthe rates are set, what they
cover and what changes are onthe horizon.
But feel free to actually getinto midstateelectric.
coop to download this episode.
(26:33):
Like it.
Pass it off to somebody if youwould.
We definitely are doing thisfor you to give you guys an idea
of what's happening here atMidstate behind the scenes.
You will hear more from Brianand Tom on other episodes coming
up.
But until next time, stay safe,stay informed and thank you for
being a valued Midstate member.
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Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.