February 5, 2025 • 32 mins
In this heartfelt episode, co-host Sarah Celotto, a mother and advocate for transgender youth, shares her personal journey of supporting her transgender child. She discusses the challenges, triumphs, and emotional decisions of parenting a transgender youth, offering a powerful perspective on love, acceptance, and advocacy. This episode provides valuable insight for parents, allies, and anyone interested in the transgender experience, highlighting the universal bonds of family and the power of unconditional support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
And. Hi, everyone.
Welcometo a new episode of Prideful Connections
where we have conversationswithout judgment.
My name is Tony Farrell.
I'm so proud to be co-hostingwith Sara Salado.
(00:27):
Sara, I want to say hi. Hi.
That's me, Sara Salado.
Thank you to our sponsor, health careadvocates.
International health care
Advocates International is a nonprofithealth and advocacy organization
dedicated to serving the needsof the LGBTQ plus community
through prevention programs,education, advocacy, and treatment.
To learn more about Health CareAdvocate International's mission
(00:48):
and programs, please visit HCI, llc.com.
The views expressed by our guest onthis podcast are not necessarily
those of its sponsors.
So we thought it'd be cool.
Since last episode,you kind of got to know me a little bit
that maybe we get to know Saraha little bit.
So we're putting Sara in the hot seattoday with no judgment.
Of course. That. Of course not.
So when I was thinking about, you know,what did I want to ask you?
(01:10):
What do we want to talk about?
I went back to the firsttime we ever met over zoom,
and I was wondering if you
can, like, you know,I like to rewrite history, so
that's what people tell me.
I don't know. But one.
Why don't you just, like,tell everybody how that was for you?
Yeah.
So, I had a youngest son.
(01:35):
My youngest son,while he was. He was transgender.
He came out transgender.
And I honestly, a lot of that timewhen he came out to us is a fog to me.
I honestly don't remember it.
Somehow I found out about you,and I don't know how.
I don't know.
Someone told me in the town that I lived.
Someone told me about you, and,I remember reaching out to you,
(01:58):
and I thought, I.
Honest to God,
I thought I was going to be waiting weeksbefore I got to speak to you.
And I think it was probably
a couple of days later you had timeand you said, let's zoom.
And I remember being in our kitchen,my husband
and I, and I think my childwas actually in the room as well.
And we got on a zoom call with you andmy husband would not get on the zoom call.
(02:20):
And I remember
just almost be in a fog, like a daze of
what is going on.
What whatwhat had my child just said to me?
What does it mean?What am I supposed to do?
You know, all these questions of thingsthat I just didn't
I didn't know, I didn't understand.
I like to say that I was the the parent,the the ignorant parent.
(02:44):
Right?
Back in the day,I didn't know anything about,
transgenderism, nevermind LGBTQ,I grew up in a straight world.
So I not thatI had anything against LGBTQ,
but I didn't know anybody, who was really part of the community.
I didn't know that I knew anybodywho was part of the community.
So when my youngest came outas transgender,
(03:05):
that just completely rocked my world.
And, I wasn't quite surewhat we were going to do.
What that meant,how to help him was my big concern.
Do you remember howyou introduced yourself to me?
No I do. Oh, gosh.
You said, were RepublicanCatholic conservatives. Yes.
And I almost fell off my chair. Yeah. Yes.
(03:27):
And. Yeah.
And that's usually in my opening lineof when I talk about our story,
I say thatbecause, I grew up as Catholic.
I brought my kids up as Catholic.I married a Catholic.
And when we were just Catholic,
all around Catholic, Catholic, Catholicand went to church every week
at off at the, communionand, con, confirmation confirmation.
(03:47):
I can't even think aboutI left it, that's why I can't remember.
I left Catholicism.
But yeah, you're right.
And that's when I when I say that, it
immediately helps peopleto figure out where to put me.
So when I say that I have
I grew up as a conservative,Catholic Republican,
(04:09):
not only grew up that way,but married into that. And
voted that way for many, many years.
It puts me in a situationwhere people can say,
oh, wait, wait, wait,maybe we can relate to her.
You talk about judgment.
You said you're going to havethis conversation without judgment.
(04:29):
I will say that that
I was very worried about being judged
as a parentand how I was going to handle this
and how I was actually feelingand the fears and how scared I was.
And how I didn't really understandwhat all this meant.
I wanted to put that, I tried
to put that in the, in the back burnerso that I didn't have to deal with that.
(04:51):
I wanted to just deal with my childand helping him
because he was engaging in self-harm,suicidal ideation.
He had no will to live.
Couldn't see beyond 15 years of age.16 years of. Age.
Yeah, that'swhat I was wanted to say. Like
when when I remember that conversation
and when I ended that conversationwith you and your husband.
(05:13):
I remember having so much empathy for himthat he couldn't even get on the camera.
He went he was sitting in the room.
But he wouldn't get on the camera.
But I also thoughtthey're going to be okay.
Yeah.
And I thought that you were going to beokay because you reached out
and you were willing to help your kidno matter what your beliefs were.
Yeah.
What were the biggest fears for your son
(05:35):
at that time?
I didn't understand him,
and I didn't understand what he was going.
And I didn't know how to help.
So before he came out as transgender,he, was anorexic.
That was a very first issue,a real, real issue that we had.
And that was when he was 12.
And you had to help him with that.
(05:56):
I knew there was places
that I could have him go tothat were going to help them have to
relearnhow to eat, put some weight back on.
I could fix that,
but I couldn't fix this.
It took me a while to realize it'snot something I needed to fix.
Right?
It's something that I needed to accept,and it's something that I needed to
(06:20):
help him get to be who he needed to be.
But I was so scaredfrom what I didn't know.
And then I.
And then I was scaredfor how our family was going to react.
I was scared for him as far as whathis future was going to look like.
What did this all mean?
I just it was all the unknown.
You know, share it.
(06:41):
Share as much as you want.
When I ask you this question,how dark did it get for your son?
How dark? Then again.
He had a plan. In fact,
I was reading throughsome of his medical records the other day.
Happened to be looking throughbecause there's a lot of medical.
Records.
And,
(07:01):
I saw that he had a plan to hang himself.
It was the first time I saw that,
and I didn't realize that.
And that was whathe must have told the doctors.
And so they put it in there.
So that, that's how dark it got for him.
I didn't want to be here.
I have to tell you that I've workedwith thousands of families.
(07:25):
And you, you and and your husband
really shifted very quickly.
And that warms my heart.
Because I knew
that your son was going to be okay.
Because you really went from where?
Catholic conservative Republicans to.
(07:45):
Let's talk about how
how much
you're involved in the likehow did you end?
This is really a questionthat I've always wanted to ask you.
I'm glad I'm saving it for this moment.
How did you get from even your husbandsitting in this space?
When you first met me?
Not reallybeing able to talk about this, him
(08:07):
not being able to be on camerato everything that you're doing.
I want you to talk about.
You started a pride in your own town.
Yeah.
You got on stage.
I remember your husband getting on stageand saying out loud to the crowd, I'm
sobbing, by the way.
I have a transgender son.
How did your family get so farin such a short period of time?
(08:29):
It's the love of your child.
There was no other option for us.
We adored our child.
We love, love, love him.
Not accepting them? Absolutely.
But getting so engrossed in this communityand doing such wonderful things
for the entire community,LGBTQ plus community.
How did how did
how did you go down that path?
(08:49):
Because that's well,that's kind of who I am as a person.
I get involved in things, especiallywhen I become passionate about them.
But the more my child would bring homefriends and I would see that
they were hiding themselvesfrom their families
and that they couldn't be their true,authentic selves with their families.
The more I realized
how lucky our family was and how luckymy child was to be in a supportive family,
(09:12):
and then I realized that that wasn'tthe case and it made me really sad.
It made me sad for the youth,
and it made me sad for people, these kidswho would be in our home in wearing
whatever clothes they wanted to go and buywhatever pronoun a name they wanted to.
But then if the parents came to pick themup, my child would say to me,
(09:33):
we'll make sure you don'tcall them by this name.
I'll make sure you use the right pronoun.
And I was like, wait, what?
I know stuff about this child
that the family didn't know,and that says a lot.
And I realize that as much as we thoughtwe lived
in a really inclusive LGBTQplus community, we don't.
And there was a lot more negativityout there than I thought.
(09:56):
And I didn't realize itbecause I never looked for it before.
I never saw it before.
So I realized
that other towns around uswere doing these pride events,
and I thought we should haveone ourselves, and we should have one,
because we need to show our youththat we love them regardless of anything.
And there's a place for themin our little town and,
(10:20):
that they can be whoever they want to bebecause
it's difficult for these kids.
These kids are where we live.
It is cut and paste.
The girls look like the girls.
The boys look all like the boys.
And anybody who has a child that doesnot fit that mold will tell you that.
That's what it is.
And my two older sons fit right into thatcut and paste.
(10:42):
They had no issues from elementary schoolonward through high school.
They both played sports.
They both wore their hair the same way.
Every other boy wore their hair,
and they wore the clothesthat every other boy.
So they had no issues. No problems.
But when my youngest came upand all of a sudden he realized that he.
He couldn't live how he was livingas a more and as a girl anymore.
(11:03):
He just couldn't do it.
And he needed to changeand he needed to, to,
to to figure out who he wasand be that, but that person,
all of a suddenthere wasn't a place for him.
He now was just different.
And as far as we've come,we haven't come far enough.
We have so much furtherto go with these kids.
And so I was like,why wouldn't we do a pride event?
(11:24):
And so that's how I started the prideevent in our town.
And the first onewas incredibly successful and successful.
He went about 3000 people.
That was a beautiful day.
It was just so, so perfect.
Everything about it was perfect.
It was. I could make for a better day.
I was curious of this because
there was a time
that you actually witnessed firsthand
(11:47):
the shift
in your child just by being acknowledgedby somebody else.
Did that drive you to sayI can be that person?
Well talk about thatincident in the hospital.
And I just I've always been curiousto wonder if, because you really witnessed
that firsthandand a lot of parents don't by the way.
(12:09):
I wonder if that drove youto give that to other kids type of thing.
So maybe it did.
It was after aftermy son had come out to us as transgender.
They still were feeling really down and.
He was cutting still,
and I needed to bring himback to the hospital.
(12:31):
And he was supposed to be speakingwith you
on a Thursday FaceTime.
And it was Thursday,and I brought him into the hospital.
And I said to the nurse,
he has a FaceTime call that he has to beon at, like, I think it was 630 or 7 p.m.
or something.
And she's like, oh, I don't know. I said,oh no, no, no.
No, no, no, no, you don't understand.
(12:52):
He needs to speak with this person
because that is probably the only personthat could save him right now.
And you I don't reallyI don't know what you said.
It was like. A ten minute,not even a ten minute conversation.
But basically, you saw him.
You gave him hope.
You said, okay,this is what we can do x, y, and z.
(13:13):
And so when he got off the call,he was like, okay.
He felt like he could now have a future.
And somebody was able to say it to him.
Somebody who was him was like him.
I wasn't like him. I'm not like. Him.
Can I tell you what I said? Yeah.
I said, okay, so you're trans, right?
And he was like,yes, okay. What do you need?
What do you mean?
I said, what do you mean?You need testosterone? What?
(13:33):
You need top surgery. What?
I said, well, you'll get it.
Yeah. Let's start livinglike start living.
Take your power backand just start living.
Yeah. Is.
Everything's going to be okay.
I got your back. Yeah.
And I remember the look on his face.
If I think about it too much,I'll start crying.
Yeah. He was just like.
Like really like. Like really?
(13:54):
And I had to tell you, your son
is now a little advocate.
And I love that.
I love that in you.
You're an advocate. You're.
And you can really at a parent level.
This is why I like that
we're doing this podcast togetheris that I'm in the community
and you're a parent of somebodywho's in the community.
(14:17):
Two totally different views on stuffthat's happening right?
Oh, yeah.
Because let me be honest.
And I and when I do my my talksand you're getting into that little world
myself of public speaking, it is not easyas a parent of a transgender child. And
when your child comes out to you,
(14:37):
you go through a morning and I, I willyou grieve the loss.
And I'll say this.
And I know so many people get annoyedwhen I say this, but this is our journey.
This is our story.
So I'm able to say this, this is noteverybody's story, but this is our story.
I grieved the loss of whoI thought my daughter would be.
I grieve the loss of being in a hospitalwhen she had a baby.
(15:00):
I grieve the loss of walking herdown the aisle.
I grieve.
We were, we still are.
But we were like, joined at the hip.
Best friends did everything together.
And more than anything
in my world,I wanted a girl more than anything.
Yeah. And that comes from when I was younger.
It comes from being adopted.
(15:21):
It comes from having three older brothers.
It comes from not like having a strangeish relationship with my mother,
just it comes from wantingsomeone who was truly
blood related to me, who was a girland who was, you know, so.
But those are all my issues.
And when I realized that and I saidto myself, okay, I'm grieving the loss.
Everything I'm grievingthe loss of is what I put on my child.
(15:43):
That's not fair.
He needs to live his life.
It doesn't have to be thehe lives his life.
For me. That's not fair on me. So
I do believe as a
parentyou go through all these different stages.
And I did go.
My husband will always say, I'mjust like a truck.
I just just go.
I just just drive and just just go.
(16:03):
And it is the flight or fight, right?
Yeah. Fight or flight.Yeah. And I am always the fight.
Fight fight fight fight fight.
Go go go go go go go go go.
That's what I did.
And then when things began to slow down,it hit me hard
and I needed to go for therapy.
I needed to talk to somebody.
I needed to put myself in a spacewhere I could say whatever I wanted
(16:24):
and feel like I wasn't going to be judged,
because a lot of times I'm in spaces where
a parent of a transgender childwould be like,
I knew my kid was transgenderand I was okay with them.
We brought them up in a homewhere there was no gender toys,
and there was no this and the and andand my child didn't come up in that home.
So I felt bad about that.
(16:45):
Like, that just wasn't how I was raised.
It wasn't how I raised my children.
There was gendered toys, right?
And there was, pink for boysand pink for girls and blue for boys.
That's just how it was.
So my whole mindset had to shift,but I also had to allow myself
to to be okay with that.But that was okay. I felt that way.
I needed to change and I changedand I educated myself and that was huge.
(17:05):
It was as soon as I as soon as he told me,
and as soon as he said those words to me,which I remember exactly where we were,
where one of his programs that he went to,one of the many, were in the car,
and he turned to meand he said, mom, I'm in the wrong body.
And I. Went,
did you were you surprised?
Well,he said no, because he had alluded to that
(17:28):
many times before,including that weekend.
But he
I still didn't think it was the casebecause
because he had comehe was in residential for a month,
and when he came out of residential,he came out as non-binary.
She they pronouns and a different name.
(17:49):
So we had to get adjusted for that.
And God love them.
He went into she they pronouns to help us.
Everything that he did,
the small steps that he took Willbecause he was gently trying to help us.
Yeah.
And it was very selfless of himand wonderful of him to do it that way.
But I tried to put myself in his situationnow and it's like five years
(18:10):
now where he's just like,I gotta just do this myself.
I've got I can't cater, I can't,I can't care so much anymore
what you all thinkand what my grandparents think.
If I have to just do what I need to do.
You know, a lot of kids,a lot of lots of kids will tell me that,
you know, I gotta do this becauseI don't want to disappoint my parents.
I don't want to disappoint my parents.
And I love the fact that you saidthis is your journey,
(18:32):
because I get that a lot, too.
Like if people hear me say, well,sometimes in the documentary, I say,
sometimes parents have to mourn the lossbefore they can embrace,
and it's really not adeath. It's a rebirth.
Yeah.
But what do you feel
has been the most rewarding partof this journey so far?
The look on his face when we would be outin public at a restaurant or something
(18:55):
and somebody say,oh, what can I get for you, young man?
That's never going to get old.
I'm telling you right now.So it's it's never to get old for him.
You'd think someone just handed him$1 million.
Pronouns.
Yeah.
It hurt me.
Cut me deepwhen someone would miss gender him.
Because I knew how hard that hitand how hard that was for him.
(19:20):
He passes pretty well now, butthere's still times when he's misgendered,
which I'm like, really?
When mean,I think he's really looks like a guy. But,
but those little things.
And he kept saying to me, he's like, mom,
what if what if somebody was saying hi toyou all the time referring to you was he?
And I was like, oh, okay.
(19:40):
So like, how did that feel? Like he'dbe like, I'm out of here.
Why do you keep climbing here?
And it's so simple, right?
I remember saying to once daysitting on our bed and I said to him,
how do you know?
It's like, how do I know what I'm like?
How do you know?
How do you know you're a guy?
He goes, how do you know you're a girl?
Like, how know I just am.
He goes, well, there you go.
With so. Simple. It's very simple.
(20:01):
But that's a good point you make becauseI always ask that when I'm training some,
I always ask one personand they're always struggling.
And, I just know.
Then why do we expect trans childrento be able to tell us in words
how they know who they are? Right.
So, you know, that's somethingthat people should realize
is that an adultcan't explain how they know.
(20:22):
Right?
We can't expect children to do ittoo. Right?
But I'll tell you what I love aboutyour son is his smile.
Yeah, I'm being honest.
Like, I am so happythat he has put himself into a role now.
Maybe now, maybe not forever,but to show other kids.
Look, because he's super cool.
Yeah, he dresses cool.
(20:42):
You know? He really is. He's super cool.
We might have him as a guest,so who knows? Yeah.
But for him to puthimself out there like that,
with that smile and that positivity and.
Yeah, you know what?
Look where I look, where I was,and now look where I am solutely.
And it really all is from acceptanceand and thank you
(21:03):
from my heart for being,you know, a parent that not only said,
we accept you,but we're going to affirm you.
Can you talk a little bitabout for the people out there
that don't know the differencebetween accepting and affirming?
Well, accepting. Was that okay?
Accepting that, you're transgenderand kind of that's really it.
But affirming was was accepting thatbut also doing something about it.
(21:28):
Right.So we needed to make sure that I will.
Now we need to affirm you and help you.
And what can we do to help yoube who you need to be.
And that meantgoing down avenues that were
terrifying for us.
If I may be honest, the first timeI took him to the doctor's office,
not the first time, the first,
but probably second or third time,
(21:49):
I took him to the doctor's officefor gender clinic,
and they were like, we could dothe testosterone shot right now.
I was like, what?
And he was giving it again.
I just got $1 million.
And I was like, hold on, hold on a second,because that meant to me
that I was beginning to trulysay goodbye to my daughter.
(22:09):
Yeah. Yeah.
And so
that was hard.
But I had to get out of my own way,and I had to realize this wasn't about me.
And that's one of the hard truthswe learn as parents, right?
It's not about I.
Think that I always tell parents this iswhen unconditional love is challenged.
Yeah, as a parent.
So but affirming,
accepting versus affirming, affirmingthem is calling by the name and pronoun
(22:33):
that they choose, making surethey have access to medical care,
making sure they have access to bathroomsthat they need, especially in school.
So you did all of that?
Yeah.
I will say that our school, even thoughhe's not in the school anymore,
that was for reasonsbecause he grew up one gender.
Yeah.
And so all the kids knew him up to freshfreshman year is one gender
that that's different.
(22:53):
But our school, they werethey were they were fantastic with him.
I mean, they were calling himpronouns and names before we were.
Yeah, right.
But to me, the
the harder part was, the pronouns,the name was a little easier,
but how many times we messed upand we be consistently
fixing it like,oh my gosh, my gosh, you know?
(23:13):
And we learned from himand I've learned from you.
When you use the wrongpronoun, don't be like, come on, how
was I supposed to make a big deal of it?
No, because then you're you'relooking for them to make you feel better.
I can't stand that.
When somebody does that, I when I'm like.
And then it drawsattention to you. Right. So.
And it makes you feel small.
My child just did a TikTok.
(23:34):
I'm that exact thing still at the stagewhere
he's trying to teach people,listen, don't make it be a big deal.
Just don't make it about you, right?
Don't make you messing up my pronounsabout you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's not about, you. Know, and the some.
But the pronouns were hardfor some reason that that those were hard.
In fact, his parent,his grandparents still messed up
(23:55):
constantly with the problem.My parents still mess up.
I know it's also my mother. Yeah.
And you have to have I do feel like,
particularly for the grandparents,that you have to have some grace for them,
particularly our, my familyand my husband's family were all
for the most part,pretty good and accepting,
maybe not so affirming all the time,but definitely accepting.
(24:16):
Nobody stop talking to us.
I have some friends whose family literallystopped talking to them.
Just awful.
But it happens. Happens?
Did not happen in our family.
No issues, problems,nobody fighting with each other.
So I was proud of that.I was proud of them.
My child doesn't necessarily see itthat way, and I wish that they would.
(24:36):
But I was proud of the family forstepping up because I feel like they did.
So the family, if you want to talk aboutthis, just how about the siblings?
He he has two siblings.
Did each one of themhave a different reaction to like.
Can you do your so ridiculous.
So they were they were.
I'll tell you why.
Because they're older, older,older brothers at two years.
(24:56):
One is two yearsolder than one is four years older.
My kids have always been close to eachother, which is nice.
And I.
He'll tell you that I made him come out,and maybe I did.
But the reason why I did it at this point,Tony, was because if he didn't do it,
he was just continuously going to bein this dark space.
(25:17):
He was going to continue to be Lyons.
Everybody else in therefor having to lie to himself.
So got to a point where I was like,you can't just tell me and end it there.
And his brothers were also seeing thaton some of his social media.
He was changing that too,he they pronouns.
And it was theeverything was beginning to change.
So I had a my oldest was in college,so I had him on zoom.
(25:40):
So I made like a family meeting.It was about 530.
And I saw a camera.
Come on.
I said, you know, you need toyou need to let let's just talk them.
And, his oldest brother said,
it's better to be a guy anyway. Okay.
And then the middle one was like,I got to go to a hockey game.
Can we can we get this going?
You know, you're good. Great.You're good. Let's go.
(26:00):
Oh that's amazing. It was amazing.
Later conversation was
that they definitely miss having a sister.
Yeah right.
They were the older brothersto the little sister.
A lot of their friends had thatand they liked being the older brother.
So the little sister againthings that they would have to deal with
that wasn't
that I wasn't my youngest fault,but things that they would have to deal
(26:21):
with and came through.
And I love how they were,how they showed up for him.
Completely showed up for him the. Next.
Yeah,I think the best thing that ever happened
to me when somebody realized I was trans,I was it was my orthopedic surgeon.
And I said to his staff, listen,I haven't seen him for years.
I'm coming in.
I'm a dude now, you know,and he has a goatee.
He's a tall guy. He's really cool guy.
So he walks into the exam roomand he says,
(26:43):
I always knewyou wanted to be me when you grew up.
That's perfect.
But the reactions that we get from people
can either empower usor really, really cripple us.
Yeah.So I was just super happy to hear that.
That's that I mean, I'm not surprised.
No, it was a great reaction.
I mean, these kids are learningand that this is why I feel
it's so important to,I'm not saying that you don't just add
(27:06):
just bring it into schoolsa little bit, right?
Just educate the kidsa little bit on the fact
that this is somethingthat's out there and it's okay.
It's not going to make a childtransgender.
It's not going to make your child gayor transgender.
Just talk about you can'tyou can't teach this
because if you could,you would be able to teach your kids
to clean their room every dayand do their homework. Yeah, exactly. But.
You know, I don't a lot of timesI don't feel
(27:26):
the kids,the students really have an issue with it.
It's what's their hearing at home?Yeah for. Sure.
And hopefully,you know, things will shift there too.
But I well can I say one thing,one other thing.
The other dayhe went to the doctors and, you know,
because it's going to be a doctorthat we're having on our show. Yeah.
Fantastic guy. Right. Amazing.
Good friend of mine.
(27:47):
And he was talking to himabout how he's feeling and like,
what are the changes that he's seen.
And Cameron has alot of facial hair now. Yeah.
The doctor was like, I'm not at alla little jealous about that.
Yeah. How the heck did you get that?
Like it was so funnybetween the two of them watching this
between the two of them. Right.
This doctor who was, like,making him feel like affirming him so much
(28:07):
and making him feel and then saying, like,I'm so jealous of the fact that you're,
you know, you at 17 years of age,you're going to say, yeah, I can't.
I can't do either.
Yeah, yeah.So you'll see when he's on it. Yeah.
When he's against.Yeah. Yeah. He's wonderful.
He's wonderful.
I remember when I met this doctor,
when he was a med student,and I would sit on panels with him.
(28:29):
Yeah.
And I just knew that he was going
into opioids and that he was into workwith trans and non-binary kids.
And I was like, thank you.
Whoever has anythingto do with this happening.
Yeah. Thank you.
Because he's such a compassionate,kind human being.
Oh, he was wonderful.He's just wonderful, sweetheart. Yeah.
So we'll wrap things up a question.
(28:52):
You know, what are your hopes?
For the future?
I just don't want my child to be.
Want a political pawn anymore.
I don't understand that. And to.
He just wants to live his lifeand be left alone.
And I just want that for him.I just want that for him.
He just. He just wants.
He doesn't
want to be known as a trans kid,which is why he wants to be out of where
(29:14):
the town that he grew up in.
And I understand that he wants to gosomewhere where nobody knows him,
nobody knows who he was previously,and he could just be who he is.
And he doesn't like right now.
He's worried about what state he can go to
in this country,which is just as you are, so ridiculous.
So let's talk about that for a second,because
(29:34):
your son is going to be speaking placesand stuff like that.
And if he's on TikTok doing TikTok,people are going to know who he is.
So that might be like,I have to have conversations with kids
about this all the time.
They're like, yeah, I'mgoing to come out to my teacher,
but I want to tell anybody,yeah, okay, that's fine.
I'm glad you trust her enough.
Yeah, but I want him to start calling meby my name and pronouns in class.
(29:57):
Well, if you want to do that,then everybody's going to know.
Yeah.
So if your son really doesn't want anybodyto know
about their trans status,I would rethink being public.
I mean, you know what I mean?
I think that what it isis that if he moved to say,
Washington or something, right?
Whatever little townhe may end up in there.
Oh, yeah. They wouldn't,they wouldn't know, right.
Unless they looked him up.
(30:17):
And then all of a suddenthey're going to see X, Y and Z.
But how many times?
I mean, sometimes I guess people are nosyand look someone up.
But he he has such an amazing storyand you have told him that.
And I have told him that, that it canhelp, help people can really help kids.
And in the beginning,he didn't want to do it.
And we left him alone to go, to dowhatever you. Want us to do.
It's up to him.
And now we know he'sgoing to be doing this talk,
(30:38):
in a couple of weeks, or, sorry,the speech and next week and next one.
And I said to him numerous of times,are you sure?
Particularlyafter the results of this election?
And he goes, yeah, it's important.I want to do it. Yeah.
I said, well, do you feel safe? He's like,are you going to be there?
I said, yeah, he's like,as long as you're there, I'm okay.
Yeah.
His story reminds me of my story. Yes.
And that's why I connect so much with himand so proud of him that,
(31:00):
you know, he's reallyhe's found his way out of the darkness.
Oh my gosh. Yes for sure.
Yeah. For sure. And such a young age.
And his artwork was very much like yoursI remember he is really good artist.
I rememberbefore I knew anything about his, gender,
his gender journey.
Yeah, I remember his artwork.
(31:20):
Some of it was so dark, Tony.
Like, I would look at it.
Oh, my God, you could see the pain.
The pain.
And this is through all the treatmentsthat we were getting for him, right
through all the, therapy sessions,through all the medication.
That reason he was still drawingthese things that showed him in such pain.
Yeah.
And then that that doesn't happenso much anymore.
(31:42):
But that's good that he was expressing itartistically for sure.
Yeah.
Well, listen,I just want to thank you, number one,
for really sharinga lot of your personal journey.
We are so super excited to be ableto share our thoughts and have guests on,
thanks for joining us.
For this episode.
And stay tuned for the next one.Chao. For now.
This episode is brought to youby Alex Incorporated.
(32:05):
Alex is a nonprofit organizationdedicated to creating
a safe, compassionate communitywhile empowering LGBTQ plus youth,
families, and allies through educational,emotional, and financial support.
We hold annual events to raise fundsin support of these goals.
VisitAlex, Inc.. Org for more information.
(32:29):
And.
And. Hi, everyone.
Welcometo a new episode of Prideful Connections
where we have conversationswithout judgment.
My name is Tony Farrell.
I'm so proud to be co-hostingwith Sara Salado.
(00:27):
Sara, I want to say hi. Hi.
That's me, Sara Salado.
Thank you to our sponsor, health careadvocates.
International health care
Advocates International is a nonprofithealth and advocacy organization
dedicated to serving the needsof the LGBTQ plus community
through prevention programs,education, advocacy, and treatment.
To learn more about Health CareAdvocate International's mission
(00:48):
and programs, please visit HCI, llc.com.
The views expressed by our guest onthis podcast are not necessarily
those of its sponsors.
So we thought it'd be cool.
Since last episode,you kind of got to know me a little bit
that maybe we get to know Saraha little bit.
So we're putting Sara in the hot seattoday with no judgment.
Of course. That. Of course not.
So when I was thinking about, you know,what did I want to ask you?
(01:10):
What do we want to talk about?
I went back to the firsttime we ever met over zoom,
and I was wondering if you
can, like, you know,I like to rewrite history, so
that's what people tell me.
I don't know. But one.
Why don't you just, like,tell everybody how that was for you?
Yeah.
So, I had a youngest son.
(01:35):
My youngest son,while he was. He was transgender.
He came out transgender.
And I honestly, a lot of that timewhen he came out to us is a fog to me.
I honestly don't remember it.
Somehow I found out about you,and I don't know how.
I don't know.
Someone told me in the town that I lived.
Someone told me about you, and,I remember reaching out to you,
(01:58):
and I thought, I.
Honest to God,
I thought I was going to be waiting weeksbefore I got to speak to you.
And I think it was probably
a couple of days later you had timeand you said, let's zoom.
And I remember being in our kitchen,my husband
and I, and I think my childwas actually in the room as well.
And we got on a zoom call with you andmy husband would not get on the zoom call.
(02:20):
And I remember
just almost be in a fog, like a daze of
what is going on.
What whatwhat had my child just said to me?
What does it mean?What am I supposed to do?
You know, all these questions of thingsthat I just didn't
I didn't know, I didn't understand.
I like to say that I was the the parent,the the ignorant parent.
(02:44):
Right?
Back in the day,I didn't know anything about,
transgenderism, nevermind LGBTQ,I grew up in a straight world.
So I not thatI had anything against LGBTQ,
but I didn't know anybody, who was really part of the community.
I didn't know that I knew anybodywho was part of the community.
So when my youngest came outas transgender,
(03:05):
that just completely rocked my world.
And, I wasn't quite surewhat we were going to do.
What that meant,how to help him was my big concern.
Do you remember howyou introduced yourself to me?
No I do. Oh, gosh.
You said, were RepublicanCatholic conservatives. Yes.
And I almost fell off my chair. Yeah. Yes.
(03:27):
And. Yeah.
And that's usually in my opening lineof when I talk about our story,
I say thatbecause, I grew up as Catholic.
I brought my kids up as Catholic.I married a Catholic.
And when we were just Catholic,
all around Catholic, Catholic, Catholicand went to church every week
at off at the, communionand, con, confirmation confirmation.
(03:47):
I can't even think aboutI left it, that's why I can't remember.
I left Catholicism.
But yeah, you're right.
And that's when I when I say that, it
immediately helps peopleto figure out where to put me.
So when I say that I have
I grew up as a conservative,Catholic Republican,
(04:09):
not only grew up that way,but married into that. And
voted that way for many, many years.
It puts me in a situationwhere people can say,
oh, wait, wait, wait,maybe we can relate to her.
You talk about judgment.
You said you're going to havethis conversation without judgment.
(04:29):
I will say that that
I was very worried about being judged
as a parentand how I was going to handle this
and how I was actually feelingand the fears and how scared I was.
And how I didn't really understandwhat all this meant.
I wanted to put that, I tried
to put that in the, in the back burnerso that I didn't have to deal with that.
(04:51):
I wanted to just deal with my childand helping him
because he was engaging in self-harm,suicidal ideation.
He had no will to live.
Couldn't see beyond 15 years of age.16 years of. Age.
Yeah, that'swhat I was wanted to say. Like
when when I remember that conversation
and when I ended that conversationwith you and your husband.
(05:13):
I remember having so much empathy for himthat he couldn't even get on the camera.
He went he was sitting in the room.
But he wouldn't get on the camera.
But I also thoughtthey're going to be okay.
Yeah.
And I thought that you were going to beokay because you reached out
and you were willing to help your kidno matter what your beliefs were.
Yeah.
What were the biggest fears for your son
(05:35):
at that time?
I didn't understand him,
and I didn't understand what he was going.
And I didn't know how to help.
So before he came out as transgender,he, was anorexic.
That was a very first issue,a real, real issue that we had.
And that was when he was 12.
And you had to help him with that.
(05:56):
I knew there was places
that I could have him go tothat were going to help them have to
relearnhow to eat, put some weight back on.
I could fix that,
but I couldn't fix this.
It took me a while to realize it'snot something I needed to fix.
Right?
It's something that I needed to accept,and it's something that I needed to
(06:20):
help him get to be who he needed to be.
But I was so scaredfrom what I didn't know.
And then I.
And then I was scaredfor how our family was going to react.
I was scared for him as far as whathis future was going to look like.
What did this all mean?
I just it was all the unknown.
You know, share it.
(06:41):
Share as much as you want.
When I ask you this question,how dark did it get for your son?
How dark? Then again.
He had a plan. In fact,
I was reading throughsome of his medical records the other day.
Happened to be looking throughbecause there's a lot of medical.
Records.
And,
(07:01):
I saw that he had a plan to hang himself.
It was the first time I saw that,
and I didn't realize that.
And that was whathe must have told the doctors.
And so they put it in there.
So that, that's how dark it got for him.
I didn't want to be here.
I have to tell you that I've workedwith thousands of families.
(07:25):
And you, you and and your husband
really shifted very quickly.
And that warms my heart.
Because I knew
that your son was going to be okay.
Because you really went from where?
Catholic conservative Republicans to.
(07:45):
Let's talk about how
how much
you're involved in the likehow did you end?
This is really a questionthat I've always wanted to ask you.
I'm glad I'm saving it for this moment.
How did you get from even your husbandsitting in this space?
When you first met me?
Not reallybeing able to talk about this, him
(08:07):
not being able to be on camerato everything that you're doing.
I want you to talk about.
You started a pride in your own town.
Yeah.
You got on stage.
I remember your husband getting on stageand saying out loud to the crowd, I'm
sobbing, by the way.
I have a transgender son.
How did your family get so farin such a short period of time?
(08:29):
It's the love of your child.
There was no other option for us.
We adored our child.
We love, love, love him.
Not accepting them? Absolutely.
But getting so engrossed in this communityand doing such wonderful things
for the entire community,LGBTQ plus community.
How did how did
how did you go down that path?
(08:49):
Because that's well,that's kind of who I am as a person.
I get involved in things, especiallywhen I become passionate about them.
But the more my child would bring homefriends and I would see that
they were hiding themselvesfrom their families
and that they couldn't be their true,authentic selves with their families.
The more I realized
how lucky our family was and how luckymy child was to be in a supportive family,
(09:12):
and then I realized that that wasn'tthe case and it made me really sad.
It made me sad for the youth,
and it made me sad for people, these kidswho would be in our home in wearing
whatever clothes they wanted to go and buywhatever pronoun a name they wanted to.
But then if the parents came to pick themup, my child would say to me,
(09:33):
we'll make sure you don'tcall them by this name.
I'll make sure you use the right pronoun.
And I was like, wait, what?
I know stuff about this child
that the family didn't know,and that says a lot.
And I realize that as much as we thoughtwe lived
in a really inclusive LGBTQplus community, we don't.
And there was a lot more negativityout there than I thought.
(09:56):
And I didn't realize itbecause I never looked for it before.
I never saw it before.
So I realized
that other towns around uswere doing these pride events,
and I thought we should haveone ourselves, and we should have one,
because we need to show our youththat we love them regardless of anything.
And there's a place for themin our little town and,
(10:20):
that they can be whoever they want to bebecause
it's difficult for these kids.
These kids are where we live.
It is cut and paste.
The girls look like the girls.
The boys look all like the boys.
And anybody who has a child that doesnot fit that mold will tell you that.
That's what it is.
And my two older sons fit right into thatcut and paste.
(10:42):
They had no issues from elementary schoolonward through high school.
They both played sports.
They both wore their hair the same way.
Every other boy wore their hair,
and they wore the clothesthat every other boy.
So they had no issues. No problems.
But when my youngest came upand all of a sudden he realized that he.
He couldn't live how he was livingas a more and as a girl anymore.
(11:03):
He just couldn't do it.
And he needed to changeand he needed to, to,
to to figure out who he wasand be that, but that person,
all of a suddenthere wasn't a place for him.
He now was just different.
And as far as we've come,we haven't come far enough.
We have so much furtherto go with these kids.
And so I was like,why wouldn't we do a pride event?
(11:24):
And so that's how I started the prideevent in our town.
And the first onewas incredibly successful and successful.
He went about 3000 people.
That was a beautiful day.
It was just so, so perfect.
Everything about it was perfect.
It was. I could make for a better day.
I was curious of this because
there was a time
that you actually witnessed firsthand
(11:47):
the shift
in your child just by being acknowledgedby somebody else.
Did that drive you to sayI can be that person?
Well talk about thatincident in the hospital.
And I just I've always been curiousto wonder if, because you really witnessed
that firsthandand a lot of parents don't by the way.
(12:09):
I wonder if that drove youto give that to other kids type of thing.
So maybe it did.
It was after aftermy son had come out to us as transgender.
They still were feeling really down and.
He was cutting still,
and I needed to bring himback to the hospital.
(12:31):
And he was supposed to be speakingwith you
on a Thursday FaceTime.
And it was Thursday,and I brought him into the hospital.
And I said to the nurse,
he has a FaceTime call that he has to beon at, like, I think it was 630 or 7 p.m.
or something.
And she's like, oh, I don't know. I said,oh no, no, no.
No, no, no, no, you don't understand.
(12:52):
He needs to speak with this person
because that is probably the only personthat could save him right now.
And you I don't reallyI don't know what you said.
It was like. A ten minute,not even a ten minute conversation.
But basically, you saw him.
You gave him hope.
You said, okay,this is what we can do x, y, and z.
(13:13):
And so when he got off the call,he was like, okay.
He felt like he could now have a future.
And somebody was able to say it to him.
Somebody who was him was like him.
I wasn't like him. I'm not like. Him.
Can I tell you what I said? Yeah.
I said, okay, so you're trans, right?
And he was like,yes, okay. What do you need?
What do you mean?
I said, what do you mean?You need testosterone? What?
(13:33):
You need top surgery. What?
I said, well, you'll get it.
Yeah. Let's start livinglike start living.
Take your power backand just start living.
Yeah. Is.
Everything's going to be okay.
I got your back. Yeah.
And I remember the look on his face.
If I think about it too much,I'll start crying.
Yeah. He was just like.
Like really like. Like really?
(13:54):
And I had to tell you, your son
is now a little advocate.
And I love that.
I love that in you.
You're an advocate. You're.
And you can really at a parent level.
This is why I like that
we're doing this podcast togetheris that I'm in the community
and you're a parent of somebodywho's in the community.
(14:17):
Two totally different views on stuffthat's happening right?
Oh, yeah.
Because let me be honest.
And I and when I do my my talksand you're getting into that little world
myself of public speaking, it is not easyas a parent of a transgender child. And
when your child comes out to you,
(14:37):
you go through a morning and I, I willyou grieve the loss.
And I'll say this.
And I know so many people get annoyedwhen I say this, but this is our journey.
This is our story.
So I'm able to say this, this is noteverybody's story, but this is our story.
I grieved the loss of whoI thought my daughter would be.
I grieve the loss of being in a hospitalwhen she had a baby.
(15:00):
I grieve the loss of walking herdown the aisle.
I grieve.
We were, we still are.
But we were like, joined at the hip.
Best friends did everything together.
And more than anything
in my world,I wanted a girl more than anything.
Yeah. And that comes from when I was younger.
It comes from being adopted.
(15:21):
It comes from having three older brothers.
It comes from not like having a strangeish relationship with my mother,
just it comes from wantingsomeone who was truly
blood related to me, who was a girland who was, you know, so.
But those are all my issues.
And when I realized that and I saidto myself, okay, I'm grieving the loss.
Everything I'm grievingthe loss of is what I put on my child.
(15:43):
That's not fair.
He needs to live his life.
It doesn't have to be thehe lives his life.
For me. That's not fair on me. So
I do believe as a
parentyou go through all these different stages.
And I did go.
My husband will always say, I'mjust like a truck.
I just just go.
I just just drive and just just go.
(16:03):
And it is the flight or fight, right?
Yeah. Fight or flight.Yeah. And I am always the fight.
Fight fight fight fight fight.
Go go go go go go go go go.
That's what I did.
And then when things began to slow down,it hit me hard
and I needed to go for therapy.
I needed to talk to somebody.
I needed to put myself in a spacewhere I could say whatever I wanted
(16:24):
and feel like I wasn't going to be judged,
because a lot of times I'm in spaces where
a parent of a transgender childwould be like,
I knew my kid was transgenderand I was okay with them.
We brought them up in a homewhere there was no gender toys,
and there was no this and the and andand my child didn't come up in that home.
So I felt bad about that.
(16:45):
Like, that just wasn't how I was raised.
It wasn't how I raised my children.
There was gendered toys, right?
And there was, pink for boysand pink for girls and blue for boys.
That's just how it was.
So my whole mindset had to shift,but I also had to allow myself
to to be okay with that.But that was okay. I felt that way.
I needed to change and I changedand I educated myself and that was huge.
(17:05):
It was as soon as I as soon as he told me,
and as soon as he said those words to me,which I remember exactly where we were,
where one of his programs that he went to,one of the many, were in the car,
and he turned to meand he said, mom, I'm in the wrong body.
And I. Went,
did you were you surprised?
Well,he said no, because he had alluded to that
(17:28):
many times before,including that weekend.
But he
I still didn't think it was the casebecause
because he had comehe was in residential for a month,
and when he came out of residential,he came out as non-binary.
She they pronouns and a different name.
(17:49):
So we had to get adjusted for that.
And God love them.
He went into she they pronouns to help us.
Everything that he did,
the small steps that he took Willbecause he was gently trying to help us.
Yeah.
And it was very selfless of himand wonderful of him to do it that way.
But I tried to put myself in his situationnow and it's like five years
(18:10):
now where he's just like,I gotta just do this myself.
I've got I can't cater, I can't,I can't care so much anymore
what you all thinkand what my grandparents think.
If I have to just do what I need to do.
You know, a lot of kids,a lot of lots of kids will tell me that,
you know, I gotta do this becauseI don't want to disappoint my parents.
I don't want to disappoint my parents.
And I love the fact that you saidthis is your journey,
(18:32):
because I get that a lot, too.
Like if people hear me say, well,sometimes in the documentary, I say,
sometimes parents have to mourn the lossbefore they can embrace,
and it's really not adeath. It's a rebirth.
Yeah.
But what do you feel
has been the most rewarding partof this journey so far?
The look on his face when we would be outin public at a restaurant or something
(18:55):
and somebody say,oh, what can I get for you, young man?
That's never going to get old.
I'm telling you right now.So it's it's never to get old for him.
You'd think someone just handed him$1 million.
Pronouns.
Yeah.
It hurt me.
Cut me deepwhen someone would miss gender him.
Because I knew how hard that hitand how hard that was for him.
(19:20):
He passes pretty well now, butthere's still times when he's misgendered,
which I'm like, really?
When mean,I think he's really looks like a guy. But,
but those little things.
And he kept saying to me, he's like, mom,
what if what if somebody was saying hi toyou all the time referring to you was he?
And I was like, oh, okay.
(19:40):
So like, how did that feel? Like he'dbe like, I'm out of here.
Why do you keep climbing here?
And it's so simple, right?
I remember saying to once daysitting on our bed and I said to him,
how do you know?
It's like, how do I know what I'm like?
How do you know?
How do you know you're a guy?
He goes, how do you know you're a girl?
Like, how know I just am.
He goes, well, there you go.
With so. Simple. It's very simple.
(20:01):
But that's a good point you make becauseI always ask that when I'm training some,
I always ask one personand they're always struggling.
And, I just know.
Then why do we expect trans childrento be able to tell us in words
how they know who they are? Right.
So, you know, that's somethingthat people should realize
is that an adultcan't explain how they know.
(20:22):
Right?
We can't expect children to do ittoo. Right?
But I'll tell you what I love aboutyour son is his smile.
Yeah, I'm being honest.
Like, I am so happythat he has put himself into a role now.
Maybe now, maybe not forever,but to show other kids.
Look, because he's super cool.
Yeah, he dresses cool.
(20:42):
You know? He really is. He's super cool.
We might have him as a guest,so who knows? Yeah.
But for him to puthimself out there like that,
with that smile and that positivity and.
Yeah, you know what?
Look where I look, where I was,and now look where I am solutely.
And it really all is from acceptanceand and thank you
(21:03):
from my heart for being,you know, a parent that not only said,
we accept you,but we're going to affirm you.
Can you talk a little bitabout for the people out there
that don't know the differencebetween accepting and affirming?
Well, accepting. Was that okay?
Accepting that, you're transgenderand kind of that's really it.
But affirming was was accepting thatbut also doing something about it.
(21:28):
Right.So we needed to make sure that I will.
Now we need to affirm you and help you.
And what can we do to help yoube who you need to be.
And that meantgoing down avenues that were
terrifying for us.
If I may be honest, the first timeI took him to the doctor's office,
not the first time, the first,
but probably second or third time,
(21:49):
I took him to the doctor's officefor gender clinic,
and they were like, we could dothe testosterone shot right now.
I was like, what?
And he was giving it again.
I just got $1 million.
And I was like, hold on, hold on a second,because that meant to me
that I was beginning to trulysay goodbye to my daughter.
(22:09):
Yeah. Yeah.
And so
that was hard.
But I had to get out of my own way,and I had to realize this wasn't about me.
And that's one of the hard truthswe learn as parents, right?
It's not about I.
Think that I always tell parents this iswhen unconditional love is challenged.
Yeah, as a parent.
So but affirming,
accepting versus affirming, affirmingthem is calling by the name and pronoun
(22:33):
that they choose, making surethey have access to medical care,
making sure they have access to bathroomsthat they need, especially in school.
So you did all of that?
Yeah.
I will say that our school, even thoughhe's not in the school anymore,
that was for reasonsbecause he grew up one gender.
Yeah.
And so all the kids knew him up to freshfreshman year is one gender
that that's different.
(22:53):
But our school, they werethey were they were fantastic with him.
I mean, they were calling himpronouns and names before we were.
Yeah, right.
But to me, the
the harder part was, the pronouns,the name was a little easier,
but how many times we messed upand we be consistently
fixing it like,oh my gosh, my gosh, you know?
(23:13):
And we learned from himand I've learned from you.
When you use the wrongpronoun, don't be like, come on, how
was I supposed to make a big deal of it?
No, because then you're you'relooking for them to make you feel better.
I can't stand that.
When somebody does that, I when I'm like.
And then it drawsattention to you. Right. So.
And it makes you feel small.
My child just did a TikTok.
(23:34):
I'm that exact thing still at the stagewhere
he's trying to teach people,listen, don't make it be a big deal.
Just don't make it about you, right?
Don't make you messing up my pronounsabout you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's not about, you. Know, and the some.
But the pronouns were hardfor some reason that that those were hard.
In fact, his parent,his grandparents still messed up
(23:55):
constantly with the problem.My parents still mess up.
I know it's also my mother. Yeah.
And you have to have I do feel like,
particularly for the grandparents,that you have to have some grace for them,
particularly our, my familyand my husband's family were all
for the most part,pretty good and accepting,
maybe not so affirming all the time,but definitely accepting.
(24:16):
Nobody stop talking to us.
I have some friends whose family literallystopped talking to them.
Just awful.
But it happens. Happens?
Did not happen in our family.
No issues, problems,nobody fighting with each other.
So I was proud of that.I was proud of them.
My child doesn't necessarily see itthat way, and I wish that they would.
(24:36):
But I was proud of the family forstepping up because I feel like they did.
So the family, if you want to talk aboutthis, just how about the siblings?
He he has two siblings.
Did each one of themhave a different reaction to like.
Can you do your so ridiculous.
So they were they were.
I'll tell you why.
Because they're older, older,older brothers at two years.
(24:56):
One is two yearsolder than one is four years older.
My kids have always been close to eachother, which is nice.
And I.
He'll tell you that I made him come out,and maybe I did.
But the reason why I did it at this point,Tony, was because if he didn't do it,
he was just continuously going to bein this dark space.
(25:17):
He was going to continue to be Lyons.
Everybody else in therefor having to lie to himself.
So got to a point where I was like,you can't just tell me and end it there.
And his brothers were also seeing thaton some of his social media.
He was changing that too,he they pronouns.
And it was theeverything was beginning to change.
So I had a my oldest was in college,so I had him on zoom.
(25:40):
So I made like a family meeting.It was about 530.
And I saw a camera.
Come on.
I said, you know, you need toyou need to let let's just talk them.
And, his oldest brother said,
it's better to be a guy anyway. Okay.
And then the middle one was like,I got to go to a hockey game.
Can we can we get this going?
You know, you're good. Great.You're good. Let's go.
(26:00):
Oh that's amazing. It was amazing.
Later conversation was
that they definitely miss having a sister.
Yeah right.
They were the older brothersto the little sister.
A lot of their friends had thatand they liked being the older brother.
So the little sister againthings that they would have to deal with
that wasn't
that I wasn't my youngest fault,but things that they would have to deal
(26:21):
with and came through.
And I love how they were,how they showed up for him.
Completely showed up for him the. Next.
Yeah,I think the best thing that ever happened
to me when somebody realized I was trans,I was it was my orthopedic surgeon.
And I said to his staff, listen,I haven't seen him for years.
I'm coming in.
I'm a dude now, you know,and he has a goatee.
He's a tall guy. He's really cool guy.
So he walks into the exam roomand he says,
(26:43):
I always knewyou wanted to be me when you grew up.
That's perfect.
But the reactions that we get from people
can either empower usor really, really cripple us.
Yeah.So I was just super happy to hear that.
That's that I mean, I'm not surprised.
No, it was a great reaction.
I mean, these kids are learningand that this is why I feel
it's so important to,I'm not saying that you don't just add
(27:06):
just bring it into schoolsa little bit, right?
Just educate the kidsa little bit on the fact
that this is somethingthat's out there and it's okay.
It's not going to make a childtransgender.
It's not going to make your child gayor transgender.
Just talk about you can'tyou can't teach this
because if you could,you would be able to teach your kids
to clean their room every dayand do their homework. Yeah, exactly. But.
You know, I don't a lot of timesI don't feel
(27:26):
the kids,the students really have an issue with it.
It's what's their hearing at home?Yeah for. Sure.
And hopefully,you know, things will shift there too.
But I well can I say one thing,one other thing.
The other dayhe went to the doctors and, you know,
because it's going to be a doctorthat we're having on our show. Yeah.
Fantastic guy. Right. Amazing.
Good friend of mine.
(27:47):
And he was talking to himabout how he's feeling and like,
what are the changes that he's seen.
And Cameron has alot of facial hair now. Yeah.
The doctor was like, I'm not at alla little jealous about that.
Yeah. How the heck did you get that?
Like it was so funnybetween the two of them watching this
between the two of them. Right.
This doctor who was, like,making him feel like affirming him so much
(28:07):
and making him feel and then saying, like,I'm so jealous of the fact that you're,
you know, you at 17 years of age,you're going to say, yeah, I can't.
I can't do either.
Yeah, yeah.So you'll see when he's on it. Yeah.
When he's against.Yeah. Yeah. He's wonderful.
He's wonderful.
I remember when I met this doctor,
when he was a med student,and I would sit on panels with him.
(28:29):
Yeah.
And I just knew that he was going
into opioids and that he was into workwith trans and non-binary kids.
And I was like, thank you.
Whoever has anythingto do with this happening.
Yeah. Thank you.
Because he's such a compassionate,kind human being.
Oh, he was wonderful.He's just wonderful, sweetheart. Yeah.
So we'll wrap things up a question.
(28:52):
You know, what are your hopes?
For the future?
I just don't want my child to be.
Want a political pawn anymore.
I don't understand that. And to.
He just wants to live his lifeand be left alone.
And I just want that for him.I just want that for him.
He just. He just wants.
He doesn't
want to be known as a trans kid,which is why he wants to be out of where
(29:14):
the town that he grew up in.
And I understand that he wants to gosomewhere where nobody knows him,
nobody knows who he was previously,and he could just be who he is.
And he doesn't like right now.
He's worried about what state he can go to
in this country,which is just as you are, so ridiculous.
So let's talk about that for a second,because
(29:34):
your son is going to be speaking placesand stuff like that.
And if he's on TikTok doing TikTok,people are going to know who he is.
So that might be like,I have to have conversations with kids
about this all the time.
They're like, yeah, I'mgoing to come out to my teacher,
but I want to tell anybody,yeah, okay, that's fine.
I'm glad you trust her enough.
Yeah, but I want him to start calling meby my name and pronouns in class.
(29:57):
Well, if you want to do that,then everybody's going to know.
Yeah.
So if your son really doesn't want anybodyto know
about their trans status,I would rethink being public.
I mean, you know what I mean?
I think that what it isis that if he moved to say,
Washington or something, right?
Whatever little townhe may end up in there.
Oh, yeah. They wouldn't,they wouldn't know, right.
Unless they looked him up.
(30:17):
And then all of a suddenthey're going to see X, Y and Z.
But how many times?
I mean, sometimes I guess people are nosyand look someone up.
But he he has such an amazing storyand you have told him that.
And I have told him that, that it canhelp, help people can really help kids.
And in the beginning,he didn't want to do it.
And we left him alone to go, to dowhatever you. Want us to do.
It's up to him.
And now we know he'sgoing to be doing this talk,
(30:38):
in a couple of weeks, or, sorry,the speech and next week and next one.
And I said to him numerous of times,are you sure?
Particularlyafter the results of this election?
And he goes, yeah, it's important.I want to do it. Yeah.
I said, well, do you feel safe? He's like,are you going to be there?
I said, yeah, he's like,as long as you're there, I'm okay.
Yeah.
His story reminds me of my story. Yes.
And that's why I connect so much with himand so proud of him that,
(31:00):
you know, he's reallyhe's found his way out of the darkness.
Oh my gosh. Yes for sure.
Yeah. For sure. And such a young age.
And his artwork was very much like yoursI remember he is really good artist.
I rememberbefore I knew anything about his, gender,
his gender journey.
Yeah, I remember his artwork.
(31:20):
Some of it was so dark, Tony.
Like, I would look at it.
Oh, my God, you could see the pain.
The pain.
And this is through all the treatmentsthat we were getting for him, right
through all the, therapy sessions,through all the medication.
That reason he was still drawingthese things that showed him in such pain.
Yeah.
And then that that doesn't happenso much anymore.
(31:42):
But that's good that he was expressing itartistically for sure.
Yeah.
Well, listen,I just want to thank you, number one,
for really sharinga lot of your personal journey.
We are so super excited to be ableto share our thoughts and have guests on,
thanks for joining us.
For this episode.
And stay tuned for the next one.Chao. For now.
This episode is brought to youby Alex Incorporated.
(32:05):
Alex is a nonprofit organizationdedicated to creating
a safe, compassionate communitywhile empowering LGBTQ plus youth,
families, and allies through educational,emotional, and financial support.
We hold annual events to raise fundsin support of these goals.
VisitAlex, Inc.. Org for more information.
(32:29):
And.
Popular Podcasts
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com