April 17, 2025 • 52 mins
In this episode of Prideful Connections, we are honored to welcome Emmy®-nominated filmmaker, bestselling author, and LGBTQ+ advocate Fiona Dawson. A proud bisexual, cisgender, immigrant woman, Fiona has dedicated her career to using media as a tool for equity and inclusion. From her groundbreaking New York Times op-doc Transgender, at War and in Love to her award-winning documentary TransMilitary, she has amplified the voices of marginalized communities and reshaped public perception. Join us as we dive into her journey—from working in corporate social responsibility to creating powerful personal storytelling through Free Lion Productions. Fiona shares insights on the impact of representation, the evolution of LGBTQIA+ media, and how we can all be part of advancing understanding through storytelling.
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(00:00):
Welcome to Prideful Connections, wherewe have conversations without judgment.
(00:03):
I am thrilled to be here againwith my co-host Tony Ferraiolo.
Hi everyone.
How are you doing?
Thank you to our sponsor, Health CareAdvocates International.
(00:24):
Health Care Advocates Internationalis a nonprofit health and advocacy
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(00:45):
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Tony.How excited are you about today? Yes.
Listen, I'm super excited,
and I don't want to say anythingabout the guests that we had,
but I haven't been more excited than I amtoday.
Oh, boy. For sure.All right, well, listen.
No pressure. So
I'm going to introduce this guest.
I actually need a little cheat sheetbecause she's got so much stuff going on.
(01:07):
This is Emmynominated filmmaker, best selling author,
and LGBTQ plus advocate,and there's so much more.
But her name is Fiona Dawson, and we arethrilled to have her here with us today.
Welcome. Welcome. Thank you.
Thank you so much, Erin.
It's a pleasure and a thrill to be here.
I really appreciate the invitation.
(01:27):
Thank you.
Oh my God. So, so, so excited.
So I think we should juststart off, Fiona,
if you would just tell us a little bitabout your journey.
As much as you want to share, how did youhow did you get to Texas?
Okay. That's that's what I.
And you know, when you ask, you know,how much do you want to share?
Like, you know, literally, you know,you look so open and hold your horses.
(01:48):
Everybody. Here we are.
Here we go. Here we go.
It's the shows. Everything.
My accent.
I always like to start with my accentbecause people hear my voice
and they put me in a boxin which I don't think I belong.
But my accent is still very British.
I grew up in the UK in a very ruralplace, like in a village near a town.
(02:12):
The village was calledswine said the town was called Boston,
and I never imagined
that one day I was going to livein the United States, let alone Texas.
But I, graduate.
Well, the context, I'll tell you.
I was born in 1977,so this year I'll be 48 years strong.
So I was like, you say, my age as well,because one of the things
(02:32):
I'd like to dispel ageism, and to when I start to tell you everything
I've done, people start thinking, well,you know, how. Old is this woman?
But anyway, I got my degree in psychology,
and in 1998, I left to go to Bangladesh,and I volunteered in Bangladesh.
Before I had, an email address,let alone social media.
(02:53):
And I taught English to indigenous peoplesabout 100 miles north of capital.
And then in the last monthand a half, of my total six
and a half months in Bangladesh,I was volunteering for the American Center
for International Labor Solidarity,
helping organize an internationalconference on migrant workers.
And then at night,I was hanging out with U.S.
(03:13):
Marines, drinkingHeineken and playing pool.
Now they're great. So that sounds amazing.
It was amazing.
I still think after all the thingsI've done, it was still like in.
The top ten of fun times.
And so I fell in love with the U.S.
marine and, the marine and I,
went to Portugal, where he was posted,and I carried on teaching English.
And then we were in loveand wanted to live happily ever after.
(03:36):
So I got married and he left the Marinesand we moved back to his home in Texas.
So. Wow. Okay.
That's how I ended up here.
But that was in the year 2000.
And four years later,
the marriage was not a marriagethat was destined to be my forever.
And I also came to identifyand realized that I was gay.
(03:56):
And so in oh four, cameflying out the closet as a lesbian,
was then madly in loveand committed to a woman for two years.
That relationship ended.
And then I was, like,single for several years.
And I moved to New York,and I realized, you know what?
The only reason I'm turning down a date
with a man, is because I've labeled myself lesbian.
But if I'm honest with myself, genderisn't necessarily
(04:19):
a barrier to my potential attractionto someone, not to everybody.
But, I like people of many different genders.
So I realize, oh my gosh, I'm bisexual.
There's a B, an LGBT.
So I came out as bisexual in 2012and then, carried on my journey
as a filmmakerand as an advocate and speaker, in 2020,
(04:41):
came back home to Texasbecause I just feel that my soul belongs
here and I love causing good troubleas as John Lewis said, down here in Texas
and, so yeah, todayI'm a filmmaker and an advocate.
I'm working on an unscripted TV seriesexplaining
the spectrum of gender and sexualitywith humor and ease.
(05:02):
And I also work for the Austin LGBTChamber of Commerce.
So yeah, that's wow.
You have quite a biography.
Wait, so where did youlive between 2012 and 2020?
Okay.
So I in, 2011, I moved to New Yorkto pursue my career in filmmaking.
So my last corporate job
had actually been in corporate diversity,equity and inclusion.
(05:25):
And around 2010,Oprah was launching her own network,
and she had a competition to winyour own show.
And I realized if I could do anythingwith my life, it would be to host
my own show, sharingpositive stories of kindness and courage.
So I quit my corporate job to go work formyself.
And I went to New Yorkbecause I'd never lived there.
I hadn't even visited it, actually,I think,
(05:46):
but I thought, well,I want to go on television.
So it was either going to be New Yorkor L.A.,
and New Yorkwas appealing to me at the time.
So I threw all my belongingsin a 12ft U-Haul
and literally drove myselfin a U-Haul from Houston to New York.
And I'm five foot.One as well, by the way.
So, you know, I'm not great.
Statuesque,but that's me, like, in this deal.
(06:08):
So I went up to New York.
I was there for about 3 or 4 years,and I was in Washington, D.C.
for a few years and then back to New York.
So I basically had like 11.5 in Houston,
nine total in New York and DC,and then back to Texas in 2020.
So wow. Yeah. It's fun.
That's that's amazing.
You know, a couple weeks agoI actually sat down on a Sunday
(06:30):
with a cup of coffeeand I watched Trans Military again.
I did the documentary that
you co,you co-directed and produced, right?
Yeah. Correct. With Gabe.So Jamie Coughlan.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'll tell you, I was just more moved now
of course, than I wasthe first time I watched the documentary.
(06:50):
Can you talk a little bit about that?
What draw you, what drew you to do thatfilm but also like
what was the most memorable momentsand maybe
the moments where you're like,oh my God, this is really challenging.
When you were doing that whole project.
Yeah, because I was right now, you know.
Yeah.
Those are deep questions. Yeah.
(07:11):
So I in my time in Houston,I'd become an advocate.
And a lot of times we were doingspeaking engagements saying that LGBTQ
and in fact back then we were just saying
LGBT, LGBT peopleshould be able to serve in the military.
And we were trying to end Don't Ask, Don'ttell when, Don't ask and excuse me when.
(07:32):
Don't ask, don't tell ended.
Everyone celebrated and moved on
to marriage equalityas the issue of the day.
But in fact, we had lefttrans people behind.
Still serving under a banbecause Don't Ask,
Don't Tell was about sexual orientation.
So it specifically allowed lesbian, gayand by people to serve.
But trans people still banned,not because of a law, but
(07:54):
because of outdated policyand specifically medical policy.
And it was something that most peopleweren't aware of
and didn't really put any attention to.
So when I moved to New York to godevelop my TV film career,
I had many friends who are transand in the military,
and I felt ashamed that I had not realizedthat they would still be banned.
(08:14):
And so I just starteddocumenting their stories.
And in fact,you know, Leyla Ireland and Logan Island,
were the two main peoplethat I was filming at the time.
And Logan was going off to a deploymentin Afghanistan, and,
he was seen as male and he was serving,
as male, even though his,
birth records and his medical recordshad him assigned female at birth.
(08:38):
But he is excelling at his job, andno one was really paying any attention.
And he wasn't lying like he was ever askedto, like he be disclosed.
But he was serving under the banand serving effectively.
We knew thatthis was a really powerful story.
So back then we were using Skypeand so I would Skype with him,
you know, while he was in Afghanistan.
And then just document the stories.
(08:59):
And then finally the New York Timesgot caught wind
that I was doing thisand in so started that project, 2012.
It was early 2015.
I got contacted by the New York Timesand they said,
hey, you're still documentingthose Foreign Service members?
I'm like, yeah.
And then like, we want to film like, okay.
And they didn't want the type of showthat I wanted.
They wanted a documentary.
(09:20):
So I put myself behind the camera becausethat story was so much more important.
And, the timesand that's when they teaming up with,
Gabe and Jamie and that productioncompany called Side By Side Studios.
The three of us made this shortfilm, Transgender at War in In Love.
And it just happened to come outthe same week,
that Caitlyn Jennerwas on the front page of Vanity Fair
(09:42):
and just having her,
such prominence in the media three daysbefore our film came out,
I think really, gave an extra boostto the traction that our story had.
And the day after that short filmcame out, the Air Force elevator
discharges of trans service membersin the Air Force to the Pentagon level.
(10:06):
And that was huge,because that meant that, you know,
you'd have to go to the higher upsto to, discharge anyone.
And that was the first timethat it ever happened.
And no one is going to waste their time,will they?
They might do these days,but that's a whole other story.
But, you know, to, to dischargeservice members at that level.
And so it had an impact,such tremendous impact.
(10:27):
And Logan and Lyla immediatelygot invited to the white House
for that pride event to go meetPresident Obama.
They film became Emmy nominated.
I got a champion of Changeaward by the president.
The Ellen.
Ellen interviewed,you know, Logan and Leyla.
Like just the impact of that storywas something that,
oh my God, I get emotionaljust saying this out
(10:48):
loud right now, like I couldwe could never have anticipated
how impactful that filmand that story was going to be.
And and then it continued.And think about it.
That film came out ten years ago,and now we're facing all of this.
Like,
I couldn't have dreamt this.
And then we carried onand did the feature.
So tiny. You mentioned trans military.
(11:10):
That title is the 90 minute documentaryso Gay.
Jamie and I and the team continueto do the feature documentary,
which came out in 2010,and when we were filming that,
we thought it was goingto be a happy ending
and it was going to end on Loganand Layla's wedding,
and we were in post-productionlike we had like,
locked the picture of the film,not intending to add more.
(11:30):
But during that time, PresidentTrump had come in
and then began these tweetsattacking Trump service members.
And it was just unbelievable,mind blowing.
And so we had to like and changethe end of the film,
for thatwhere their lives were in jeopardy.
And of course, now in 2025 with,I think, very similar.
Challenges, it's like,who knew this film would be evergreen?
(11:53):
That's horrific.
It was just it's, you know, it's.
It's it's crazy because a lot of people,you know, have said to me
and it's been very busy since, January 20th.
But a lot of people said to me, well,we've been through this before,
and I have to disagree with that becauseonce you when you fight for your rights
and then you, you win your rights,now they're taking them away again.
(12:14):
It's a different feel. It's a different.
So are you in touchwith any of the cast members?
Oh, you are so our
I mean, have you talked to themsince all this has been happening?
Yeah. And what's their what's their take?
Yeah. Thank you for asking.
Like we were even toyingwith the idea of doing a sequel.
So not just Logan
(12:35):
and Lyla,but many people within Sparta, many people
within the trans military communityhave become family issues.
And I'm very gratefulthat I'm very tight with them still.
And, we anticipated
a new attack against transservice members back when,
you know, Trump got elected, and,
(12:57):
Logan, Lyla and I were having a catch upcall late last year.
And just as friends, likeI was the person that got to marry them
like I was the efficiencyin their wedding.
I'm like, you know, we consider ourselvessiblings at this point.
That's awesome.
And, so we, weit just came to us in conversation like,
oh my gosh, like a week.
Maybe we should do an updatebecause over the course
(13:20):
of ten years, their careers have excelled.
You know, Logan, got,
deployed over to actually station.
Sorry. Not deployed.
He got stationed over in South Korea.
He served in South Korea,he served in United Arab Emirates
like he served in all of these places,like he is in intelligence.
(13:41):
He does like top secret, squirrely stuffthat we're not allowed to talk about.
You know, he knows things that.
Like in in higher levels of security,like he excels his job, he leads a team.
And most people in his teamthat that he leads didn't even realize
that he was trans at this pointbecause it's been ten years.
And so both of themhave now been stationed back into Hawaii,
(14:03):
which is where they were when we first,you know, where they ended the film.
Ironically,Layla is now working for the hospital
as a civilian contractorin the very department
that pushed her out,like about a decade ago.
And she's like, revered
and celebrated and respectedand is like a great leader in her team.
(14:24):
And so that one itselfis like an interesting irony,
but like a beautiful place to havearrived, where over the course of time
people have come to understand that,oh, yeah, trans people exist.
They can do their jobs. We love them.
That happened.
And so we,
thought about doing a sequel to the film,and we actually started
(14:45):
like documenting similarlyto how I did in the beginning on Skype.
Except this time, you know,we're using on zoom.
So we got to the point, though, when,you know, the executive order came out
saying that sex is two thingsand it's the same agenda.
And then the new secretary of defense
was told to usethat as a basis for new policy.
(15:05):
And, so this policy was initiatedbasically saying if you had any history
of gender dysphoria, either currentlyor in the past or any medical history
of transition, then you're unfit to serveand you need to get kicked out.
And initially I was like, there's no waythey're going to do that to Logan Island.
And then lo and behold,Logan got put on administrative leave
(15:27):
because if he wasn't, he would havehad to use the female restrooms.
I like female uniform.
And so it was protecting, protecting.
And so now, of course, like he'snow one of the three lawsuits,
to basically say that, you know,this is a discrimination
based on sex and goes against,you know, policy.
And thankfully, this fall, likethe courts are standing strong and,
(15:52):
there's like preliminary injunctionsagainst the ban.
So, you know, Logan is back at work.
But at the end of the day,the service members
just want to get on and do their jobs.
They want to serve.
They're not they're not here to advocate.
They're not here to necessarily,you know, be social justice warriors.
They're simply sharing their storiesin order to indicate how wrong this is.
(16:14):
And, and, how it defies,
the oath that they swore to defendand serve our country.
And I think from my observation,if somebody who is in advocacy
in the civilian worldand uplifting service members stories,
what I see is the difference is that transservice members have are so well
(16:35):
trained for this jobbecause they're trained to work as a team.
They're trained to like, take a mission.
They're trained to respecttheir leadership, like you will find now
that, you know,they will not go around in media on the,
in their uniforms like they have.
And so we pull back on the filmbecause we felt like
now is not the time to share this story,because now is the time for them to fall
(16:59):
in line and, and to, so on this missionin the best, most effective way.
And that is by,
you know, these lawsuits that are probablygoing to end up at the Supreme Court.
And so we don't want to do anythingto disrupt that or, or put them in the box
of, you know, of being activistsbecause they're not their service members.
(17:20):
And I remember, I remember.
Yeah, yeah, I rememberduring the documentary when Logan
gets to get his blues.
Yeah, I, I was crying, I'll be honest.
I was just like.
And to think, I mean, what a brave human
where he's beenand how he served this country.
And now they're trying to take that away.
It's just heartbreaking. Yeah.
But I just want tomention the documentary.
(17:42):
Were you able to to watch?
I wasn't able to watch it,but I did listen to a,
another podcast that you had been on.
Not so, not so long ago.
So I was very interested in hearing, your story and all that you've done.
And, if I could just touch a little biton the books that you have done,
you're a bestselling author.And your first book
I found very interestingto hear about with your, the Father.
(18:05):
Yeah.
I love that part.
I just yeah.
So I talk a lot of, This is the familyfriendly podcast, isn't it?
Well, yeah.
Well, yeah.
Kinda. Sorta.
Yeah. Well, you can say whatever you want.
Like. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Yes yes yes absolutely. Yep, yep.
So you'd like me to talk about my books?
(18:26):
I do, yeah.
I think that I.
Yeah I will I also I'm going to come back
within the book I want to upliftLayla as well in another way too.
And she and she's in the book.
So this is a great, transition,for want of a better word into that.
So the so what I,I came to realize, like, through the work,
especially with trans military,is that a lot of people
(18:49):
have very direct questionsthat they're too afraid to ask.
They're afraid of being told thatthey're a hater or that they're stupid.
Or, you know, basically, like thatthey should know better.
And yet,I feel like I want to approach people
where with educationand like friendly forms of education,
and I want to be that safe placewhere you can ask me anything,
(19:10):
you know, I'm not going to bethe I'm not going to get triggered by it.
I just want to give you a very direct, answer to your question.
And so with the work with trans military,I got to the point
where people were asking me less,what does trans mean?
But they didn't know what cisgender meantor cis means.
And I'm thinking, well,if you don't know what cisgender means,
(19:31):
then you're likely to be cisgender.
Yeah.
True. And let me help explain that.
So I wrote a scriptand turned it into animation,
explaining the difference between the wordcisgender and transgender.
And then I thought, well, is thisquestion, this question, this question.
So I just started writing will be scripts,in order to make them into animation.
(19:53):
And then I got to the point of realizing,you know, I could publish a book quicker
than I can find the funds.
To create 21 pieces.
Of animation.
So I made the first bookand the first title,
excuse me, the book,the title of my first book is
All Bisexuals Just Greedy.
(20:13):
And it'sbasically explaining the spectrum.
It's very direct.
Yeah, it's very direct answers to directquestions people are too afraid to ask.
And the reason I talk tothey're all bisexuals, just greedy,
is in homage to my fatherbecause when I was a teenager,
my dad said to me,I can understand men being gay
(20:33):
and I can understand women being lesbians,but I think bisexuals are just greedy.
And it didn't really I didn't think
too much of it at the time,but I distinctly remember it.
And to this day,dad does acknowledge that he did say this,
and I think it wasbecause we were watching television.
Because there were so few.
Characters and positive charactersthat represented what it meant to be bi.
(20:56):
And so when I first came out as gay and,
I didn'teven think about the word bisexual.
And then when I later realized, oh, I'mbisexual, that's when I became more aware
of the stigma and the stereotypesagainst the bi plus community.
Even though we are the largest in numbersamongst the lesbian, gay, bi community,
transpeople are more likely to be bisexual
(21:17):
or straight than they are to be gay.
And so I just felt like that, you know,this was a thing that people ask.
And so that's the title of the first book,and I included
some sexually explicit words in there, including the dedication, which is meant.
To be a learning point,as well as realizing.
(21:37):
That, you know, your genitals don'tnecessarily dictate your gender, you know?
So, anyway, soI just wanted to get all these words out,
and then, late 2023,
I got invitedto do a speaking engagement at NATO.
And they wanted me to do a book reading.
(21:58):
And I started to let me getI what they looked at, what I said.
So I did like a safer.
Work version,
which I think is good anyway,because I want this book to be accessible.
I want people,
you know, to to read it no matter,where you know what position they have.
And I don't want them to be offended
if I've used a few swear wordsand and expect sexually explicit words.
(22:22):
And so the, the second version is called,
what does that LGBTQ plus label mean?
Expression of the spectrum of genderand sexuality with humor
and is if I could change it again,I would add two s up here.
One of the chapters does explain to us
and then bringing it back down,bring it back round to Layla.
(22:42):
I'm extremely gratefulthat Layla wrote the forward in the book.
Oh, nice.
And so there's a cartoon.It's illustrated.
Some people pick it up
and think it's a kid's book because,you know, it looks so, you know, cartoony.
But it's it's written for anyonewho is at a place
in their life where they can talk aboutsexual orientation and gender identity.
(23:02):
I'll leave it at that.I'm not going to determine what age.
But Layla and I, you know,through the years, we just celebrated
13 years of friendship, and,she she really is a sister to me.
And I will say that, her story,when you reflect it to Logan's story
to see how a trans woman, and especiallya trans woman of color is treated
(23:27):
so differently to a very masculine
white man who happens to be trans.
It's like just that, thatthat two stories back to back,
really a kind of very educational,enlightening as well.
And was definitely brought outin the documentary,
by the way, that you definitelywould again, when when he was getting his
(23:48):
blues,you can tell that she was like, wow.
Like, you know,she couldn't be herself in that uniform.
And that broke my heart.
But you really capturedthat difference in the film for sure.
Thank you.
Well,I mean, those scenes are so personal to.
Because when,when Logan goes shopping for his blues
and the extended scene of that scenein the feature documentary,
(24:13):
I had, hopped on a plane using air
Miles, and I had no budget to hire a crew,
but we knew that he was getting his bluesfor the first time.
So, myself,one of Layla's friends, just got off fires
and videoed it on our phones.
And Layla, that very day,I remember the day was horrific.
(24:36):
She was in a very bad mood,which she acknowledged freely.
But the same day, Loganwas given permission to go
by his and buy his male uniformto go meet President Obama.
Laylahad been told she had to cut her hair,
and she was watching her fiance say
(24:56):
by his blues while she was standing therewearing a male uniform.
I mean, it was like, it's shocking.
And so when they went to go meetPresident Obama, she could not
wear her uniform because if she did,she would have had to wear a male uniform.
So that's why she's wearinga civilian clothes and a beautiful dress.
(25:16):
But yeah, it's.
I wanted to, like,take all of the stuff that I had learned
during the film process.
And I will also say this to anyonelistening who has a passion
for storytelling.
Don't hold back like weour phones are so powerful
to document stories,and for me, I avoid social media.
(25:37):
But like, you know, put it in a high framerate and film like this ideally,
because I knowthat's how we used to film it.
But the scenes that,
some of the most heartfeltare just filmed on the, on my side,
like when, like when Logan came backfrom his deployment.
I didn't officially have a contractwith the New York Times,
(26:01):
so I was just a friend,and we were filming on base
with my phone,and we got the hug, you know?
So it's like, capture those momentsand treasure them, and you never know,
like where they're going to end up.
And then that's why, like,I had from my own personal identity
as being bisexualand then becoming so close, in friendship
(26:22):
with trans people, it helped me understandthis whole, like, spectrum of gender
and sexuality and how it's all,you know, in different, like a mosaic.
And it's like, I want to take these thingsthat seem complex to people
and put them in a very binary,direct way to understand,
because at the end of the day,currently LGBTQ
(26:45):
plus people are being usedas political pawns
and it hurts people, as you know, if not,
and their lives like andand we need to keep people safe
and we need to keep people secure
and validated and loved and,you know, lead them through this time.
And for me, I just want to educate peopleso that politicians
(27:07):
can't use people as political bait.
Yeah.
Like.
Clearly you're very passionate about thisand obviously a huge advocate.
What in your personal journey,was there something specific
in your personal journey, of coming out
as, as gay and then discovering
(27:29):
that it was okay to be bisexualand that you were actually bisexual?
Was there
anything of your personal journey,that journey that just led you to say, I
you know, this is somethingI just I'm feeling so passionate about?
What? I just want to get out thereand make a difference.
Yeah.
I wish that question was easierfor me to answer.
Because I have thought about this a lot,
and I, carry so much privilege
(27:53):
in terms of my accent, my white skin,you know, my good teeth.
Like, you know.
All these things so I can exist in spaceswithout feeling attached.
And I can speak to peoplewho would attack other people.
And so I feel like I have a moraland human responsibility
to be able to use this meat sackthat I've been given
(28:16):
in order to advance humanityin a positive way.
You know,I believe strongly we're spiritual beings
having a human experience.
And so I use that term,the meat sack, quite free
quite frequently to to say,you know, we're all we're all connected.
You know, we're all one.
I, I was doing yoga this morning as well.
You know, and the meditation.
You know, and I justI that is such an important part of it.
(28:37):
But to give more like little
like tastes of my personal journey.
And again, I write about this in the book.
When I was around 6 or 7 years old.
I cut my hair pretty sure I had itcut short, and emulated my mom.
My mom had short hair.
I had short hair.This is awesome photograph, I love it.
Me and my mom where I just likehow many they, My mother died in oh six.
(29:00):
She was only 54.
She died of pancreatic cancer. And,
I, so that's why I talk about her nowin the past tense.
But I was extremely and still remainedextremely close to her.
But I remember when I was around 6or 7 years old
and we went to the cobbler,like the cobbler is like the.
The shoe mender. Yeah. The shoe. Shop.Yeah.
(29:21):
And I remember
taking, like, mom had some shoesthat she had to drop off at a cobbler.
And the cobbler looked down at meand said, now then.
Sonny Jim, how are you nowcalling someone Sonny Jim in England?
Like, that's like, now that little boy,you know, and I'm like,
I looked up at this. Cobbler and I said.
I'm not a boy, I'm a girl.
(29:42):
And the, the cobbler felt so badthat when.
We went back to pick up the shoesbecause it was like within an hour or two,
like he had to make a bag of sweetsor candy
because he felt so badthat I had been misgendered.
Now that's my really only.
I was misgenderedfor about three years of my life.
Like my dad again says, like one day,
(30:03):
my, my siblingsand I, there's three of us total
and my dad and my mom, like,we were visiting this town
where my dad grew up and,and he was, like,
catching up with neighborsthat had known him when he was a teenager.
And he looked in the back and said, oh,I see you've got two boys and a girl.
And my dad had two correct there.
Actually, those two girls and a boy.
(30:23):
But again.
Like, that's I am not trans,I'm cisgender and I and so for me,
it's easier for me to get through that,because I can correct people.
And when I corrected people, I was lovedand accepted and everyone apologized
like I, you know, I was told I'msorry when I was misgendered.
Not treated the way,you know, many, many kids are treated now.
(30:45):
And so I think maybe that's
like a deep seated,unconscious thing that might be in me.
But all my life, like,I've just been raised in a family
to serve, like, my parents both workedfor the National Health Service,
which is,you know, the government run health care.
You know, theymy dad is a now retired doctor.
My mom was in health care, too.
(31:06):
And, ever since I was a kid, they alwaysguided us to take care of other people.
Like we would shovel snow
for the elderly people and go buy them,you know, bread and milk.
You know, when I was, a brownieand then a girl guide, I used to visit,
you know, the elderly people,you know, for about eight, nine years.
And then I went to Bangladeshto go volunteer.
(31:27):
Like, it's
just something that I can't take claimcredit for because it's just who I am.
And then never imaginedthat I'd end up in the United States.
But I feel like I'm here for a reason.
Like a couple of weeks ago,I was having a catch up call with my dad,
and the first thing he said was like.
What the hell is going on in your country?
Like, yeah, don't,do you want to come home?
(31:49):
You know, I know I don't considerEngland home any more,
but for the first time,I actually think I do.
I want to go back.
But I don't want to go back becausethis is this is where I'm meant to be.
And I feel a call for leadership.
I feel a call to serve, as I have,you know, since I was three years old.
You know, this is.
This is who I am.
And and I think falling into the, the,advocacy but LGBTQ plus or
(32:15):
the spectrum of gender and sexuality hasjust been a natural progression for me.
I think that we could all getvery overwhelmed
with the number of opportunitieswe have to help people.
I would love to be environmental activist.
I would love to do all these other things,
but I feel like this is my lane,this is my expertise.
This is where I belong.
If I'm doing thisand someone else is doing this,
and someone else is doingall these little things, then collectively
(32:38):
you know, we can come togetherand, and, and rise up
as a society and, and globally too,you know.
Yeah.
So you've been I'm sure you've been busywith everything like I have.
And, you know, Sarah has a nonprofit,
Alex Inc., and she's a mom of a trans kid.
And, you know, especially againafter the election.
(32:59):
It's just so hard,
for all of us who are doing the work,how are you taking care of yourself?
How do you balance that?
To make sure that you keep your energy up?
Because we do need you, Fiona,to keep doing what you're doing.
So, what?
What's your practicewhen it comes to self-care?
Okay. Thank you.
So, we have a common analogy.
(33:21):
I'm sure everyone has heard this before.
Most people have, you know, put your own,face mask on or with an air mask.
The oxygen mask, actually.
Oxygen? Yeah, but.
Put your own oxygen mask on.
And so, yes, it is extremely important.
So this is the number of waysI take care of myself.
Number one isI absolutely avoid social media.
I have let go of people telling meI need to do social media
(33:43):
in order to advance my career.
I refuse to believe that I am dependent,my career is dependent upon anything.
I do my best to check LinkedInbecause I do find,
you know, great connections there.
But and I'll post a few things now andthen, but I don't read, I don't scroll.
So I take the best title as much as I canto, like,
stay in contact with peoplethrough text messages and phone calls.
(34:05):
And then, some in the morning.
I have a general routinewhere I'm not looking at the news.
I'm not looking at email until I have, done some version of my practice.
It might differ every day.
But it might be going to Orange TheoryFitness.
Love. I've got there, too. Yeah.
We have to talk about this,Sarah. Like, yeah.
Orange theory practice.
So I alternate between orange theory andthen the next day is yoga and on and off.
(34:30):
Have to do the yoga as well.
Meditation.
The app insight Timer is a game changer.
Insight time is the most amazingmeditation space they have live,
practitioners like teachers,like courses, all kinds of things.
So I make sure that I dosome version of that, like sometimes,
I might have to skip it or I only have like five minutes.
(34:52):
And then other times, like this morning,I think I spent about 90 minutes
to 2 hours, like my alarm went off,you know, about 530.
And then I'll leave homeat 830 to go to work.
So between 530 and 830, I'mdoing some form of self-care.
And then as I'm about to leave home,that's when I'll listen
to a quick podcastto get the news headlines quickly.
(35:12):
Check the email
because you have to realize, like me,listening to the news at 5:30 a.m.
does not change anythingbut my mental health.
But between then and an 830.
So as much as anyone possibly can,just try and avoid those things.
I'm single.
Would love to date one person.
Not picky on the gender, just.
(35:33):
Putting that out there.
So I don't have a partner thoughto talk to you because I've noticed I.
Don't because I don't have anyoneto go home to to like, share with.
Sometimes, like.
A friend might call.
And before I know it, I'm like, you know.
Spewing up on them.
So I have amazing friends. That know that.
The owner might.
Accidentally,like, break down into us, you know.
(35:57):
And so amazing friends.
And then my team that I work
with at the Austin LGBTchamber has just been a game changer.
Like, I see I was Tina,and we've got Colton and Amy
and me and the four of us, and, I took onI didn't take on, like,
I gratefully and enthusiastically acceptedthe job late last year
for many reasons,but one was because as an entrepreneur,
(36:19):
I just really didn'twant to be working by myself anymore.
And I wanted to be in a team.
And I think the people that you work withand the people you spend
most time with, you've got to have peoplethat you can work well with.
And so they're part of my self-care.
And we have a podcast as well.
And I think our podcastis somewhat therapeutic.
And then just like just sayingmission focused
(36:41):
to, to myself, trying to be mindful,and I'm very grateful.
I'm lucky because I've got a kind,loving family as well.
So I'm not sayingthings are picture perfect now.
I can also feel extreme anxiety.
But I lean into those practicesand realizing that spiritual beings
having human experienceand this anxiety in these stories,
(37:03):
the biological brainmaking up these things
and being able to detach or observethose stories
and realize everything right nowis okay, right?
Live in the power of the now and that.
Says, yeah, mindfulness.
Be in the moment.
I like your positiveness, Fiona.
I think that that's so important.
And I heard that a lot
when I was listening to,the other podcasts that you are on.
(37:25):
And I also like I said this to Tonybecause he and I talk about
when this election did happen,people were obviously,
very down and in very, very bad spaces.
And the one thing that I saidto my son was,
and I heard you say this,which is why I'm bringing this up,
but I know Tony feels the same way.
I did say to my son that, listen,I don't believe for one second
(37:48):
that the majority of this country hatestransgender or LGBTQ.
I really, really believe that people are,of course, looking out for themselves and
and they are going to votefor what they feel is going to help
whatever situation they're in.
And it's hard for he's 17.
I think it's very hardfor him to understand and see that.
(38:08):
And, but I do think that
I, I'm not going to expect
someone to vote based uponwhat's right for me.
They're going to vote based uponwhat's right for them.
And that does not meanthat they have any hatred
or animosity towards my childor the LGBTQ community.
(38:30):
They just aren't thinking of it.
And so I,I was very excited to hear that from you
because I thought,like, it's hard to find people
that are just trying to find the positiveand trying to find the good and,
and keep movingand doing everything that you're doing
and realizing that there are good people,there really are good people out there.
And especially you being who you are.
(38:50):
Like when we were in the spotlight,when people know us
and we're sending that message to the kidsand, you know, I work with that's
all I do is work with kids.
And I keep telling them that.
What just exactly what you just said.
Like, not everybody hates you.This country doesn't hate you.
But also we feel what we focus on.
That's just plain and simple.
So we need to start focusing on even joy.
(39:11):
And a lot of peoplelook at me and say, Joy,
how can you talk about joyat a time like this?
No, we need to find joybecause that's resilience.
When we can be joyful in a time like now.
So I guess my next question to youwould be for our for our listeners,
how can we support your work?
What can we do to help youand the work that you're doing?
I think that's important.
(39:33):
Yeah. Thank you.
Number one is to have joy, feeljoy and share love.
Like, I live in Austin and,
last weekend there was a kite festival.
Thousands of people went to the park
down the streetwhere I live and flew kites.
Oh, and that is helping the world.
You know, like, in addition.
(39:53):
So they protesting and and flying kites.
Flying kites. Yeah.
And I think that we as a collectivecan all help one another
at an energetic level.
I know this is going to sound very woowooto some people, but I truly believe
this is like by youfinding joy in its simplest form
and experiencing that,and like being kind to somebody,
(40:16):
like giving somebody eye contactand a smile, you know,
in, in little places, like just being kind
is helping all of our collective work.
And I think that is so important.
I see the people in power at the momentwho are
attacking other people, us
(40:38):
a riddled with pain,
like,can you imagine how much they love it
themselves and can't acknowledge that?
You know, I think that we're seeing
an energetic force that is, is hurtingand that is not condone
that behavior or condone that destructionor condone the attack on the people.
(40:59):
But that's the wayI try and make sense of it and realize
that we can rise upand overcome through love.
I do not agree with the messaging
of fight hate, because if I want to create
an equitable societythat I want to promote love.
And, I think that that is a shiftin the language that could happen
(41:24):
at a top level down in order to like,
improve people's lives at all levels.
So I think
that that would be helpfulis to realize that
while hate exists,
I think that love and joy also exists.
And I think if people can be kind
to each other in themselvesand like, work on their own self-love,
(41:46):
then you are collaborating to all of thiscollective work.
On a practical level,if you want to support. Me,
I don't really.
Of course we do. Yes, of course we do.
I mean, I social I get the breaking news.
Yes, yes, yes Iwe would been waiting this whole time.
Okay.
(42:07):
Go for it.
In 2010,
I, you know, I came up with an ideafor a television show
and late last year, in fact,it was November the 1st.
It was the week before the election.
I got an official letter from Austin PBS
to be the presenting stationfor my TV show.
So we had distribution. Yay!
(42:28):
Congratulations.
Awesome, awesome.
Austin PBS will be the presenting station,and we'll take it to other PBS
kids around the country.
So we're thinking about 80 to 90% of PBSwill have the show.
The title is out with Fiona,and it's positive
stories of kindness and couragefrom the LGBTQ to us, plus community.
And it's bringing people together.
So there's somebody who, is queeridentified and somebody in that family
(42:52):
who loves and supports but just doesn'tquite get it and needs help understanding.
So I is like your Auntie Fiona, you know,you're female version of Mister Rogers.
You know, all time.I know how like show is.
Like if you take Queer Eye, Mister.
Rogers and then schoolhouseRock with like, the animated explainers,
mix that all up and you get. That's you.Yeah.
(43:13):
That's amazing.
So yeah, so that's the show.
And I think that anyone that wants to helpor watch, is like,
I guess I'll have a social media handle.
At some point.
But the website out withthe idea was there.
So I think for now, just like knowabout it, know that it's coming.
We are fundraising for it.
PBS, doesn't provide the funds,but they provide the distribution,
(43:34):
which is an independent filmmaker.
Getting distribution is huge.
Yeah.
Like and even before you've made it,so I'm very confident that will have
some foundations and, individualdonors, high net worth donors.
And then we'll have a community fund,so that if you, you want to give $1
just to give a vote to say, I want this,I support this and that time will come.
(43:56):
So I think just be aware of like,with with Fiona and feel, joy.
Be kind, be courageous in your lifeand then we're all helping each other.
Yeah.
What? Fiona, you're talking 15 years ago.
You put this out there, right?
We talked about that.
You talked about putting things outinto the universe. And this is what you.
You know what happens when you're ready?
(44:16):
It happens when you're ready.That's amazing.
Yeah, yeah, I've had to do a lotof self-growth myself.
And so it happens when I'm ready.
And then it happens when the.
The world, the universe needs it to.
I don't know, I'm speaking out as wellbecause like back 15 years ago,
I thought people needed to be educatedon LGBTQ plus issues.
And everyone wasI know, I know, we got marriage.
(44:37):
We done.
And then there was a while,
you know, duringthe Obama is when I'm thinking, well,
should I just give upbecause everyone gets it.
Everyone knows.
I know they clearly. Don't like that.
They don't.
They don't know.
Like, oh,and I'm going to be better at it now.
Like, I really know myself.
Like I knew myself. No,but now I really know.
So yeah.
Let me youthis delicious dessert or television.
(45:00):
Yeah, I can't wait I cannot wait.
And when you have this,we'll definitely post your website.
But when you have something elseto give us,
please give it to us,and we'll definitely throw it out there.
But I love the kindness thing.
You know me, Fiona,and you know I'm all about kindness.
Because kindness got your sweatshirt.
Yeah. Oh, you got my sweatshirt.
Yes, you did, butkindness has a boomerang effect, right?
(45:21):
So when we're kinder to ourselvesor kinder to others,
when we're kind of others,we're kind of story flows.
So it's happens organically.
So that's why I try to tell people,I mean, we have choice at the moment
to like stop and pause and say, okay,how am I going to handle the situation?
Sometimesthe power of my pause can be weeks.
If I can't say something kind of responseto what they said, I don't say anything.
(45:43):
Yeah.
So you're practicing kindness,which I think is great.
What else do you have to sayto our audience about,
you know, how is that how that how is thatpractice changed your life?
I mean, have you always been this?
Hey, I'm kind and have you?
Because I wasn't always this person.
You know, I was a very angry, growing up, being abused.
(46:04):
I know you got my you
I think I you bought a copy of my memoir,but I've had a really rough journey,
and a lot of people that have known mesay, say, how can you be so kind?
And how can you be so happy now?
Have you always been happyand joyful and kind.
And which is. Greatif you have been? Yeah.
No, I know I have like I feel likeyou need to ask this question to my dad.
(46:28):
Okay. And,because he'll get him. On the phone.
Can you get him on?
Yeah. Like dad is.
I think dad's been interviewed like, once.He doesn't like this.
Like my dad says, literally.
I do not know how your motherand I created you.
Like, you are just so different.
Like today.I am definitely very different.
(46:49):
Yeah.
From my from my immediate biological.
Well, from, like anyone elseI can think of in my biological family.
That, like.
Yeah, that my parents would shy awayfrom any attention.
I grew up in England where it's like,keep your head down.
Don'tyou know, don't make your head too big.
You gotta be able to walk through a door.
You know who do you think you are to gohave a television show?
(47:10):
That's just the famous people.
You're not one of those people like,you know.
And so I have had to work through,
internal self-doubt.
I've had to increase my self-love.
I've had to I've had to do a lot of work.
I didn't just like, this is this is likenearly 48 years in the making.
I'm proud of it.
But you were just. Why?I'm not hiding my wrinkles.
(47:31):
I refuse to talk to anyone.
I'm like,I'm working really hard to age like it.
It's like I'm proud of it.
Don't hide it like battle wounds,but I. Did.
I grew up very lucky.
Where, you know, I, I did experience,
so, sexual assault,
but it wasn't not, but it was is a
(47:53):
how do I mean, how do you decidethe spectrum of sexual assault,
but I wasn't yeah,I wasn't raised in an abusive family.
Like, I was very lucky in that my
I knew that my familyunconditionally loved me no matter what.
And, you know, they they may have hadthis, British sensibility
where, you know,you're meant to conform and fall in line.
(48:14):
But at the end of the day,they let me be me.
And I remember as a childwanting to be Princess Diana
because, I saw images of Princess Diana,
Diana visiting people on the streets,you know, living with HIV and Aids.
And I saw her walking through landmines,and I wanted to have
that kind of power to draw attentionto issues, to help make things better.
(48:37):
So I always kind of looked up to PrincessDiana, whereas at the same time,
my parents thought that she was like,they didn't approve of Princess Diana
because they thoughtshe grabbed the limelight too much.
You know,she was too much in the spotlight.
But my,
my, youknow, my dad has come to terms with this,
and I think my mother watches me now,and I feel like she shows me signs,
like, through monthswhere I think she validates who I am.
(49:00):
And, you know,whenever I've faced adversity,
my dad has always told me,if you had a you're like a cat,
you somehow just land on your feet.
I don't know how you do it.
And he's writtenthe sweetest notes to me.
Now, where
you know who he has said that he admires,like, my personal perseverance.
So I don't know.
(49:21):
Yeah. That's nice to hear from.
From your parents.
It's just nice to hear from a parent.
You know, my parents now are,you know, totally different towards me.
Just the other day,they're like, oh, my God.
We saw your speech at the Capitol.We're so proud of you.
And it it hits a place in my heartthat nobody else can hit.
And when it comes from a parent.
So I can feel that for sure.
(49:42):
It's very, very true. I would.
So. Yeah. Go ahead.
I want to check. Yes. Please do.
It did take a long time for my dadto get there.
And then in the same time,it took a long time for me
to believe in myself, in order to tell my dad.
No, I know who I am, I want,and there's been.
It doesn't just happen once and done.It's like many little secrets.
But one of the first times I remember iswhen our film Trans Military
(50:05):
was playing at the BFI flareFilm Festival in London.
So it's the LGBT.
BFI Festival is a big deal.
And, I, I went to London for the screening
and they watched the film,and then I stood on stage and my dad,
and his wife Jenny,and my family were all in the audience,
and dad watched me on stagegiving a Q&A and being able
(50:28):
to answer all of these questions aroundwhat we're talking about.
And I sat back down next to himand he looked at me in disbelief.
He's like, how did you do that? Like, you.
Really know your stuff, don't you. Like?Yes, dad.
Do you know that?
So I think it's been it'sbeen a it's a reciprocal relationship.
And so I would say, youknow, parents like love your kids so much.
(50:53):
You know, please love them.
Yeah.
It doesn't matter.
Fiona, I really enjoyed this conversationwith you.
I feel like we could go on and on,but I know that your time is valuable.
So, I thank you.
Thank. Yes, but thank you so muchfor being on with us.
We really look forwardto seeing everything transpire.
Yes. And, I know Tonyand I will absolutely be watching it.
(51:15):
Hopefully a PBS here and Connecticutwill pick it up and be.
Able to make sure it does. Fiona.We'll make sure it does.
Yes, but, don't be a stranger.
Reach out to us,let us know everything that you're doing.
And I'm just so proudto have got to know you.
So thank you.
Thank you for being with us. Sothank you, Sarah.
Thank you Tony. Thanks, everyone.Thank you.
Yes. Thanks, Fiona.
(51:36):
That's it guys.
Thank you so much.
Have a great day. Bye bye.
This episode is brought to youby Alex Incorporated.
Alex is a nonprofit organizationdedicated to creating
a safe, compassionate communitywhile empowering Lgbtq+ youth,
families, and allies through educational,emotional, and financial support.
We hold annual events to raise fundsin support of these goals.
(51:58):
Visit Alex Inc. Org for more information.
Und.
Welcome to Prideful Connections, wherewe have conversations without judgment.
(00:03):
I am thrilled to be here againwith my co-host Tony Ferraiolo.
Hi everyone.
How are you doing?
Thank you to our sponsor, Health CareAdvocates International.
(00:24):
Health Care Advocates Internationalis a nonprofit health and advocacy
organization dedicated to servingthe needs of the LGBTQ, plus community
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please visit HCA. I like.com.
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(00:45):
this podcast are not necessarilythose of its sponsors.
Tony.How excited are you about today? Yes.
Listen, I'm super excited,
and I don't want to say anythingabout the guests that we had,
but I haven't been more excited than I amtoday.
Oh, boy. For sure.All right, well, listen.
No pressure. So
I'm going to introduce this guest.
I actually need a little cheat sheetbecause she's got so much stuff going on.
(01:07):
This is Emmynominated filmmaker, best selling author,
and LGBTQ plus advocate,and there's so much more.
But her name is Fiona Dawson, and we arethrilled to have her here with us today.
Welcome. Welcome. Thank you.
Thank you so much, Erin.
It's a pleasure and a thrill to be here.
I really appreciate the invitation.
(01:27):
Thank you.
Oh my God. So, so, so excited.
So I think we should juststart off, Fiona,
if you would just tell us a little bitabout your journey.
As much as you want to share, how did youhow did you get to Texas?
Okay. That's that's what I.
And you know, when you ask, you know,how much do you want to share?
Like, you know, literally, you know,you look so open and hold your horses.
(01:48):
Everybody. Here we are.
Here we go. Here we go.
It's the shows. Everything.
My accent.
I always like to start with my accentbecause people hear my voice
and they put me in a boxin which I don't think I belong.
But my accent is still very British.
I grew up in the UK in a very ruralplace, like in a village near a town.
(02:12):
The village was calledswine said the town was called Boston,
and I never imagined
that one day I was going to livein the United States, let alone Texas.
But I, graduate.
Well, the context, I'll tell you.
I was born in 1977,so this year I'll be 48 years strong.
So I was like, you say, my age as well,because one of the things
(02:32):
I'd like to dispel ageism, and to when I start to tell you everything
I've done, people start thinking, well,you know, how. Old is this woman?
But anyway, I got my degree in psychology,
and in 1998, I left to go to Bangladesh,and I volunteered in Bangladesh.
Before I had, an email address,let alone social media.
(02:53):
And I taught English to indigenous peoplesabout 100 miles north of capital.
And then in the last monthand a half, of my total six
and a half months in Bangladesh,I was volunteering for the American Center
for International Labor Solidarity,
helping organize an internationalconference on migrant workers.
And then at night,I was hanging out with U.S.
(03:13):
Marines, drinkingHeineken and playing pool.
Now they're great. So that sounds amazing.
It was amazing.
I still think after all the thingsI've done, it was still like in.
The top ten of fun times.
And so I fell in love with the U.S.
marine and, the marine and I,
went to Portugal, where he was posted,and I carried on teaching English.
And then we were in loveand wanted to live happily ever after.
(03:36):
So I got married and he left the Marinesand we moved back to his home in Texas.
So. Wow. Okay.
That's how I ended up here.
But that was in the year 2000.
And four years later,
the marriage was not a marriagethat was destined to be my forever.
And I also came to identifyand realized that I was gay.
(03:56):
And so in oh four, cameflying out the closet as a lesbian,
was then madly in loveand committed to a woman for two years.
That relationship ended.
And then I was, like,single for several years.
And I moved to New York,and I realized, you know what?
The only reason I'm turning down a date
with a man, is because I've labeled myself lesbian.
But if I'm honest with myself, genderisn't necessarily
(04:19):
a barrier to my potential attractionto someone, not to everybody.
But, I like people of many different genders.
So I realize, oh my gosh, I'm bisexual.
There's a B, an LGBT.
So I came out as bisexual in 2012and then, carried on my journey
as a filmmakerand as an advocate and speaker, in 2020,
(04:41):
came back home to Texasbecause I just feel that my soul belongs
here and I love causing good troubleas as John Lewis said, down here in Texas
and, so yeah, todayI'm a filmmaker and an advocate.
I'm working on an unscripted TV seriesexplaining
the spectrum of gender and sexualitywith humor and ease.
(05:02):
And I also work for the Austin LGBTChamber of Commerce.
So yeah, that's wow.
You have quite a biography.
Wait, so where did youlive between 2012 and 2020?
Okay.
So I in, 2011, I moved to New Yorkto pursue my career in filmmaking.
So my last corporate job
had actually been in corporate diversity,equity and inclusion.
(05:25):
And around 2010,Oprah was launching her own network,
and she had a competition to winyour own show.
And I realized if I could do anythingwith my life, it would be to host
my own show, sharingpositive stories of kindness and courage.
So I quit my corporate job to go work formyself.
And I went to New Yorkbecause I'd never lived there.
I hadn't even visited it, actually,I think,
(05:46):
but I thought, well,I want to go on television.
So it was either going to be New Yorkor L.A.,
and New Yorkwas appealing to me at the time.
So I threw all my belongingsin a 12ft U-Haul
and literally drove myselfin a U-Haul from Houston to New York.
And I'm five foot.One as well, by the way.
So, you know, I'm not great.
Statuesque,but that's me, like, in this deal.
(06:08):
So I went up to New York.
I was there for about 3 or 4 years,and I was in Washington, D.C.
for a few years and then back to New York.
So I basically had like 11.5 in Houston,
nine total in New York and DC,and then back to Texas in 2020.
So wow. Yeah. It's fun.
That's that's amazing.
You know, a couple weeks agoI actually sat down on a Sunday
(06:30):
with a cup of coffeeand I watched Trans Military again.
I did the documentary that
you co,you co-directed and produced, right?
Yeah. Correct. With Gabe.So Jamie Coughlan.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'll tell you, I was just more moved now
of course, than I wasthe first time I watched the documentary.
(06:50):
Can you talk a little bit about that?
What draw you, what drew you to do thatfilm but also like
what was the most memorable momentsand maybe
the moments where you're like,oh my God, this is really challenging.
When you were doing that whole project.
Yeah, because I was right now, you know.
Yeah.
Those are deep questions. Yeah.
(07:11):
So I in my time in Houston,I'd become an advocate.
And a lot of times we were doingspeaking engagements saying that LGBTQ
and in fact back then we were just saying
LGBT, LGBT peopleshould be able to serve in the military.
And we were trying to end Don't Ask, Don'ttell when, Don't ask and excuse me when.
(07:32):
Don't ask, don't tell ended.
Everyone celebrated and moved on
to marriage equalityas the issue of the day.
But in fact, we had lefttrans people behind.
Still serving under a banbecause Don't Ask,
Don't Tell was about sexual orientation.
So it specifically allowed lesbian, gayand by people to serve.
But trans people still banned,not because of a law, but
(07:54):
because of outdated policyand specifically medical policy.
And it was something that most peopleweren't aware of
and didn't really put any attention to.
So when I moved to New York to godevelop my TV film career,
I had many friends who are transand in the military,
and I felt ashamed that I had not realizedthat they would still be banned.
(08:14):
And so I just starteddocumenting their stories.
And in fact,you know, Leyla Ireland and Logan Island,
were the two main peoplethat I was filming at the time.
And Logan was going off to a deploymentin Afghanistan, and,
he was seen as male and he was serving,
as male, even though his,
birth records and his medical recordshad him assigned female at birth.
(08:38):
But he is excelling at his job, andno one was really paying any attention.
And he wasn't lying like he was ever askedto, like he be disclosed.
But he was serving under the banand serving effectively.
We knew thatthis was a really powerful story.
So back then we were using Skypeand so I would Skype with him,
you know, while he was in Afghanistan.
And then just document the stories.
(08:59):
And then finally the New York Timesgot caught wind
that I was doing thisand in so started that project, 2012.
It was early 2015.
I got contacted by the New York Timesand they said,
hey, you're still documentingthose Foreign Service members?
I'm like, yeah.
And then like, we want to film like, okay.
And they didn't want the type of showthat I wanted.
They wanted a documentary.
(09:20):
So I put myself behind the camera becausethat story was so much more important.
And, the timesand that's when they teaming up with,
Gabe and Jamie and that productioncompany called Side By Side Studios.
The three of us made this shortfilm, Transgender at War in In Love.
And it just happened to come outthe same week,
that Caitlyn Jennerwas on the front page of Vanity Fair
(09:42):
and just having her,
such prominence in the media three daysbefore our film came out,
I think really, gave an extra boostto the traction that our story had.
And the day after that short filmcame out, the Air Force elevator
discharges of trans service membersin the Air Force to the Pentagon level.
(10:06):
And that was huge,because that meant that, you know,
you'd have to go to the higher upsto to, discharge anyone.
And that was the first timethat it ever happened.
And no one is going to waste their time,will they?
They might do these days,but that's a whole other story.
But, you know, to, to dischargeservice members at that level.
And so it had an impact,such tremendous impact.
(10:27):
And Logan and Lyla immediatelygot invited to the white House
for that pride event to go meetPresident Obama.
They film became Emmy nominated.
I got a champion of Changeaward by the president.
The Ellen.
Ellen interviewed,you know, Logan and Leyla.
Like just the impact of that storywas something that,
oh my God, I get emotionaljust saying this out
(10:48):
loud right now, like I couldwe could never have anticipated
how impactful that filmand that story was going to be.
And and then it continued.And think about it.
That film came out ten years ago,and now we're facing all of this.
Like,
I couldn't have dreamt this.
And then we carried onand did the feature.
So tiny. You mentioned trans military.
(11:10):
That title is the 90 minute documentaryso Gay.
Jamie and I and the team continueto do the feature documentary,
which came out in 2010,and when we were filming that,
we thought it was goingto be a happy ending
and it was going to end on Loganand Layla's wedding,
and we were in post-productionlike we had like,
locked the picture of the film,not intending to add more.
(11:30):
But during that time, PresidentTrump had come in
and then began these tweetsattacking Trump service members.
And it was just unbelievable,mind blowing.
And so we had to like and changethe end of the film,
for thatwhere their lives were in jeopardy.
And of course, now in 2025 with,I think, very similar.
Challenges, it's like,who knew this film would be evergreen?
(11:53):
That's horrific.
It was just it's, you know, it's.
It's it's crazy because a lot of people,you know, have said to me
and it's been very busy since, January 20th.
But a lot of people said to me, well,we've been through this before,
and I have to disagree with that becauseonce you when you fight for your rights
and then you, you win your rights,now they're taking them away again.
(12:14):
It's a different feel. It's a different.
So are you in touchwith any of the cast members?
Oh, you are so our
I mean, have you talked to themsince all this has been happening?
Yeah. And what's their what's their take?
Yeah. Thank you for asking.
Like we were even toyingwith the idea of doing a sequel.
So not just Logan
(12:35):
and Lyla,but many people within Sparta, many people
within the trans military communityhave become family issues.
And I'm very gratefulthat I'm very tight with them still.
And, we anticipated
a new attack against transservice members back when,
you know, Trump got elected, and,
(12:57):
Logan, Lyla and I were having a catch upcall late last year.
And just as friends, likeI was the person that got to marry them
like I was the efficiencyin their wedding.
I'm like, you know, we consider ourselvessiblings at this point.
That's awesome.
And, so we, weit just came to us in conversation like,
oh my gosh, like a week.
Maybe we should do an updatebecause over the course
(13:20):
of ten years, their careers have excelled.
You know, Logan, got,
deployed over to actually station.
Sorry. Not deployed.
He got stationed over in South Korea.
He served in South Korea,he served in United Arab Emirates
like he served in all of these places,like he is in intelligence.
(13:41):
He does like top secret, squirrely stuffthat we're not allowed to talk about.
You know, he knows things that.
Like in in higher levels of security,like he excels his job, he leads a team.
And most people in his teamthat that he leads didn't even realize
that he was trans at this pointbecause it's been ten years.
And so both of themhave now been stationed back into Hawaii,
(14:03):
which is where they were when we first,you know, where they ended the film.
Ironically,Layla is now working for the hospital
as a civilian contractorin the very department
that pushed her out,like about a decade ago.
And she's like, revered
and celebrated and respectedand is like a great leader in her team.
(14:24):
And so that one itselfis like an interesting irony,
but like a beautiful place to havearrived, where over the course of time
people have come to understand that,oh, yeah, trans people exist.
They can do their jobs. We love them.
That happened.
And so we,
thought about doing a sequel to the film,and we actually started
(14:45):
like documenting similarlyto how I did in the beginning on Skype.
Except this time, you know,we're using on zoom.
So we got to the point, though, when,you know, the executive order came out
saying that sex is two thingsand it's the same agenda.
And then the new secretary of defense
was told to usethat as a basis for new policy.
(15:05):
And, so this policy was initiatedbasically saying if you had any history
of gender dysphoria, either currentlyor in the past or any medical history
of transition, then you're unfit to serveand you need to get kicked out.
And initially I was like, there's no waythey're going to do that to Logan Island.
And then lo and behold,Logan got put on administrative leave
(15:27):
because if he wasn't, he would havehad to use the female restrooms.
I like female uniform.
And so it was protecting, protecting.
And so now, of course, like he'snow one of the three lawsuits,
to basically say that, you know,this is a discrimination
based on sex and goes against,you know, policy.
And thankfully, this fall, likethe courts are standing strong and,
(15:52):
there's like preliminary injunctionsagainst the ban.
So, you know, Logan is back at work.
But at the end of the day,the service members
just want to get on and do their jobs.
They want to serve.
They're not they're not here to advocate.
They're not here to necessarily,you know, be social justice warriors.
They're simply sharing their storiesin order to indicate how wrong this is.
(16:14):
And, and, how it defies,
the oath that they swore to defendand serve our country.
And I think from my observation,if somebody who is in advocacy
in the civilian worldand uplifting service members stories,
what I see is the difference is that transservice members have are so well
(16:35):
trained for this jobbecause they're trained to work as a team.
They're trained to like, take a mission.
They're trained to respecttheir leadership, like you will find now
that, you know,they will not go around in media on the,
in their uniforms like they have.
And so we pull back on the filmbecause we felt like
now is not the time to share this story,because now is the time for them to fall
(16:59):
in line and, and to, so on this missionin the best, most effective way.
And that is by,
you know, these lawsuits that are probablygoing to end up at the Supreme Court.
And so we don't want to do anythingto disrupt that or, or put them in the box
of, you know, of being activistsbecause they're not their service members.
(17:20):
And I remember, I remember.
Yeah, yeah, I rememberduring the documentary when Logan
gets to get his blues.
Yeah, I, I was crying, I'll be honest.
I was just like.
And to think, I mean, what a brave human
where he's beenand how he served this country.
And now they're trying to take that away.
It's just heartbreaking. Yeah.
But I just want tomention the documentary.
(17:42):
Were you able to to watch?
I wasn't able to watch it,but I did listen to a,
another podcast that you had been on.
Not so, not so long ago.
So I was very interested in hearing, your story and all that you've done.
And, if I could just touch a little biton the books that you have done,
you're a bestselling author.And your first book
I found very interestingto hear about with your, the Father.
(18:05):
Yeah.
I love that part.
I just yeah.
So I talk a lot of, This is the familyfriendly podcast, isn't it?
Well, yeah.
Well, yeah.
Kinda. Sorta.
Yeah. Well, you can say whatever you want.
Like. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Yes yes yes absolutely. Yep, yep.
So you'd like me to talk about my books?
(18:26):
I do, yeah.
I think that I.
Yeah I will I also I'm going to come back
within the book I want to upliftLayla as well in another way too.
And she and she's in the book.
So this is a great, transition,for want of a better word into that.
So the so what I,I came to realize, like, through the work,
especially with trans military,is that a lot of people
(18:49):
have very direct questionsthat they're too afraid to ask.
They're afraid of being told thatthey're a hater or that they're stupid.
Or, you know, basically, like thatthey should know better.
And yet,I feel like I want to approach people
where with educationand like friendly forms of education,
and I want to be that safe placewhere you can ask me anything,
(19:10):
you know, I'm not going to bethe I'm not going to get triggered by it.
I just want to give you a very direct, answer to your question.
And so with the work with trans military,I got to the point
where people were asking me less,what does trans mean?
But they didn't know what cisgender meantor cis means.
And I'm thinking, well,if you don't know what cisgender means,
(19:31):
then you're likely to be cisgender.
Yeah.
True. And let me help explain that.
So I wrote a scriptand turned it into animation,
explaining the difference between the wordcisgender and transgender.
And then I thought, well, is thisquestion, this question, this question.
So I just started writing will be scripts,in order to make them into animation.
(19:53):
And then I got to the point of realizing,you know, I could publish a book quicker
than I can find the funds.
To create 21 pieces.
Of animation.
So I made the first bookand the first title,
excuse me, the book,the title of my first book is
All Bisexuals Just Greedy.
(20:13):
And it'sbasically explaining the spectrum.
It's very direct.
Yeah, it's very direct answers to directquestions people are too afraid to ask.
And the reason I talk tothey're all bisexuals, just greedy,
is in homage to my fatherbecause when I was a teenager,
my dad said to me,I can understand men being gay
(20:33):
and I can understand women being lesbians,but I think bisexuals are just greedy.
And it didn't really I didn't think
too much of it at the time,but I distinctly remember it.
And to this day,dad does acknowledge that he did say this,
and I think it wasbecause we were watching television.
Because there were so few.
Characters and positive charactersthat represented what it meant to be bi.
(20:56):
And so when I first came out as gay and,
I didn'teven think about the word bisexual.
And then when I later realized, oh, I'mbisexual, that's when I became more aware
of the stigma and the stereotypesagainst the bi plus community.
Even though we are the largest in numbersamongst the lesbian, gay, bi community,
transpeople are more likely to be bisexual
(21:17):
or straight than they are to be gay.
And so I just felt like that, you know,this was a thing that people ask.
And so that's the title of the first book,and I included
some sexually explicit words in there, including the dedication, which is meant.
To be a learning point,as well as realizing.
(21:37):
That, you know, your genitals don'tnecessarily dictate your gender, you know?
So, anyway, soI just wanted to get all these words out,
and then, late 2023,
I got invitedto do a speaking engagement at NATO.
And they wanted me to do a book reading.
(21:58):
And I started to let me getI what they looked at, what I said.
So I did like a safer.
Work version,
which I think is good anyway,because I want this book to be accessible.
I want people,
you know, to to read it no matter,where you know what position they have.
And I don't want them to be offended
if I've used a few swear wordsand and expect sexually explicit words.
(22:22):
And so the, the second version is called,
what does that LGBTQ plus label mean?
Expression of the spectrum of genderand sexuality with humor
and is if I could change it again,I would add two s up here.
One of the chapters does explain to us
and then bringing it back down,bring it back round to Layla.
(22:42):
I'm extremely gratefulthat Layla wrote the forward in the book.
Oh, nice.
And so there's a cartoon.It's illustrated.
Some people pick it up
and think it's a kid's book because,you know, it looks so, you know, cartoony.
But it's it's written for anyonewho is at a place
in their life where they can talk aboutsexual orientation and gender identity.
(23:02):
I'll leave it at that.I'm not going to determine what age.
But Layla and I, you know,through the years, we just celebrated
13 years of friendship, and,she she really is a sister to me.
And I will say that, her story,when you reflect it to Logan's story
to see how a trans woman, and especiallya trans woman of color is treated
(23:27):
so differently to a very masculine
white man who happens to be trans.
It's like just that, thatthat two stories back to back,
really a kind of very educational,enlightening as well.
And was definitely brought outin the documentary,
by the way, that you definitelywould again, when when he was getting his
(23:48):
blues,you can tell that she was like, wow.
Like, you know,she couldn't be herself in that uniform.
And that broke my heart.
But you really capturedthat difference in the film for sure.
Thank you.
Well,I mean, those scenes are so personal to.
Because when,when Logan goes shopping for his blues
and the extended scene of that scenein the feature documentary,
(24:13):
I had, hopped on a plane using air
Miles, and I had no budget to hire a crew,
but we knew that he was getting his bluesfor the first time.
So, myself,one of Layla's friends, just got off fires
and videoed it on our phones.
And Layla, that very day,I remember the day was horrific.
(24:36):
She was in a very bad mood,which she acknowledged freely.
But the same day, Loganwas given permission to go
by his and buy his male uniformto go meet President Obama.
Laylahad been told she had to cut her hair,
and she was watching her fiance say
(24:56):
by his blues while she was standing therewearing a male uniform.
I mean, it was like, it's shocking.
And so when they went to go meetPresident Obama, she could not
wear her uniform because if she did,she would have had to wear a male uniform.
So that's why she's wearinga civilian clothes and a beautiful dress.
(25:16):
But yeah, it's.
I wanted to, like,take all of the stuff that I had learned
during the film process.
And I will also say this to anyonelistening who has a passion
for storytelling.
Don't hold back like weour phones are so powerful
to document stories,and for me, I avoid social media.
(25:37):
But like, you know, put it in a high framerate and film like this ideally,
because I knowthat's how we used to film it.
But the scenes that,
some of the most heartfeltare just filmed on the, on my side,
like when, like when Logan came backfrom his deployment.
I didn't officially have a contractwith the New York Times,
(26:01):
so I was just a friend,and we were filming on base
with my phone,and we got the hug, you know?
So it's like, capture those momentsand treasure them, and you never know,
like where they're going to end up.
And then that's why, like,I had from my own personal identity
as being bisexualand then becoming so close, in friendship
(26:22):
with trans people, it helped me understandthis whole, like, spectrum of gender
and sexuality and how it's all,you know, in different, like a mosaic.
And it's like, I want to take these thingsthat seem complex to people
and put them in a very binary,direct way to understand,
because at the end of the day,currently LGBTQ
(26:45):
plus people are being usedas political pawns
and it hurts people, as you know, if not,
and their lives like andand we need to keep people safe
and we need to keep people secure
and validated and loved and,you know, lead them through this time.
And for me, I just want to educate peopleso that politicians
(27:07):
can't use people as political bait.
Yeah.
Like.
Clearly you're very passionate about thisand obviously a huge advocate.
What in your personal journey,was there something specific
in your personal journey, of coming out
as, as gay and then discovering
(27:29):
that it was okay to be bisexualand that you were actually bisexual?
Was there
anything of your personal journey,that journey that just led you to say, I
you know, this is somethingI just I'm feeling so passionate about?
What? I just want to get out thereand make a difference.
Yeah.
I wish that question was easierfor me to answer.
Because I have thought about this a lot,
and I, carry so much privilege
(27:53):
in terms of my accent, my white skin,you know, my good teeth.
Like, you know.
All these things so I can exist in spaceswithout feeling attached.
And I can speak to peoplewho would attack other people.
And so I feel like I have a moraland human responsibility
to be able to use this meat sackthat I've been given
(28:16):
in order to advance humanityin a positive way.
You know,I believe strongly we're spiritual beings
having a human experience.
And so I use that term,the meat sack, quite free
quite frequently to to say,you know, we're all we're all connected.
You know, we're all one.
I, I was doing yoga this morning as well.
You know, and the meditation.
You know, and I justI that is such an important part of it.
(28:37):
But to give more like little
like tastes of my personal journey.
And again, I write about this in the book.
When I was around 6 or 7 years old.
I cut my hair pretty sure I had itcut short, and emulated my mom.
My mom had short hair.
I had short hair.This is awesome photograph, I love it.
Me and my mom where I just likehow many they, My mother died in oh six.
(29:00):
She was only 54.
She died of pancreatic cancer. And,
I, so that's why I talk about her nowin the past tense.
But I was extremely and still remainedextremely close to her.
But I remember when I was around 6or 7 years old
and we went to the cobbler,like the cobbler is like the.
The shoe mender. Yeah. The shoe. Shop.Yeah.
(29:21):
And I remember
taking, like, mom had some shoesthat she had to drop off at a cobbler.
And the cobbler looked down at meand said, now then.
Sonny Jim, how are you nowcalling someone Sonny Jim in England?
Like, that's like, now that little boy,you know, and I'm like,
I looked up at this. Cobbler and I said.
I'm not a boy, I'm a girl.
(29:42):
And the, the cobbler felt so badthat when.
We went back to pick up the shoesbecause it was like within an hour or two,
like he had to make a bag of sweetsor candy
because he felt so badthat I had been misgendered.
Now that's my really only.
I was misgenderedfor about three years of my life.
Like my dad again says, like one day,
(30:03):
my, my siblingsand I, there's three of us total
and my dad and my mom, like,we were visiting this town
where my dad grew up and,and he was, like,
catching up with neighborsthat had known him when he was a teenager.
And he looked in the back and said, oh,I see you've got two boys and a girl.
And my dad had two correct there.
Actually, those two girls and a boy.
(30:23):
But again.
Like, that's I am not trans,I'm cisgender and I and so for me,
it's easier for me to get through that,because I can correct people.
And when I corrected people, I was lovedand accepted and everyone apologized
like I, you know, I was told I'msorry when I was misgendered.
Not treated the way,you know, many, many kids are treated now.
(30:45):
And so I think maybe that's
like a deep seated,unconscious thing that might be in me.
But all my life, like,I've just been raised in a family
to serve, like, my parents both workedfor the National Health Service,
which is,you know, the government run health care.
You know, theymy dad is a now retired doctor.
My mom was in health care, too.
(31:06):
And, ever since I was a kid, they alwaysguided us to take care of other people.
Like we would shovel snow
for the elderly people and go buy them,you know, bread and milk.
You know, when I was, a brownieand then a girl guide, I used to visit,
you know, the elderly people,you know, for about eight, nine years.
And then I went to Bangladeshto go volunteer.
(31:27):
Like, it's
just something that I can't take claimcredit for because it's just who I am.
And then never imaginedthat I'd end up in the United States.
But I feel like I'm here for a reason.
Like a couple of weeks ago,I was having a catch up call with my dad,
and the first thing he said was like.
What the hell is going on in your country?
Like, yeah, don't,do you want to come home?
(31:49):
You know, I know I don't considerEngland home any more,
but for the first time,I actually think I do.
I want to go back.
But I don't want to go back becausethis is this is where I'm meant to be.
And I feel a call for leadership.
I feel a call to serve, as I have,you know, since I was three years old.
You know, this is.
This is who I am.
And and I think falling into the, the,advocacy but LGBTQ plus or
(32:15):
the spectrum of gender and sexuality hasjust been a natural progression for me.
I think that we could all getvery overwhelmed
with the number of opportunitieswe have to help people.
I would love to be environmental activist.
I would love to do all these other things,
but I feel like this is my lane,this is my expertise.
This is where I belong.
If I'm doing thisand someone else is doing this,
and someone else is doingall these little things, then collectively
(32:38):
you know, we can come togetherand, and, and rise up
as a society and, and globally too,you know.
Yeah.
So you've been I'm sure you've been busywith everything like I have.
And, you know, Sarah has a nonprofit,
Alex Inc., and she's a mom of a trans kid.
And, you know, especially againafter the election.
(32:59):
It's just so hard,
for all of us who are doing the work,how are you taking care of yourself?
How do you balance that?
To make sure that you keep your energy up?
Because we do need you, Fiona,to keep doing what you're doing.
So, what?
What's your practicewhen it comes to self-care?
Okay. Thank you.
So, we have a common analogy.
(33:21):
I'm sure everyone has heard this before.
Most people have, you know, put your own,face mask on or with an air mask.
The oxygen mask, actually.
Oxygen? Yeah, but.
Put your own oxygen mask on.
And so, yes, it is extremely important.
So this is the number of waysI take care of myself.
Number one isI absolutely avoid social media.
I have let go of people telling meI need to do social media
(33:43):
in order to advance my career.
I refuse to believe that I am dependent,my career is dependent upon anything.
I do my best to check LinkedInbecause I do find,
you know, great connections there.
But and I'll post a few things now andthen, but I don't read, I don't scroll.
So I take the best title as much as I canto, like,
stay in contact with peoplethrough text messages and phone calls.
(34:05):
And then, some in the morning.
I have a general routinewhere I'm not looking at the news.
I'm not looking at email until I have, done some version of my practice.
It might differ every day.
But it might be going to Orange TheoryFitness.
Love. I've got there, too. Yeah.
We have to talk about this,Sarah. Like, yeah.
Orange theory practice.
So I alternate between orange theory andthen the next day is yoga and on and off.
(34:30):
Have to do the yoga as well.
Meditation.
The app insight Timer is a game changer.
Insight time is the most amazingmeditation space they have live,
practitioners like teachers,like courses, all kinds of things.
So I make sure that I dosome version of that, like sometimes,
I might have to skip it or I only have like five minutes.
(34:52):
And then other times, like this morning,I think I spent about 90 minutes
to 2 hours, like my alarm went off,you know, about 530.
And then I'll leave homeat 830 to go to work.
So between 530 and 830, I'mdoing some form of self-care.
And then as I'm about to leave home,that's when I'll listen
to a quick podcastto get the news headlines quickly.
(35:12):
Check the email
because you have to realize, like me,listening to the news at 5:30 a.m.
does not change anythingbut my mental health.
But between then and an 830.
So as much as anyone possibly can,just try and avoid those things.
I'm single.
Would love to date one person.
Not picky on the gender, just.
(35:33):
Putting that out there.
So I don't have a partner thoughto talk to you because I've noticed I.
Don't because I don't have anyoneto go home to to like, share with.
Sometimes, like.
A friend might call.
And before I know it, I'm like, you know.
Spewing up on them.
So I have amazing friends. That know that.
The owner might.
Accidentally,like, break down into us, you know.
(35:57):
And so amazing friends.
And then my team that I work
with at the Austin LGBTchamber has just been a game changer.
Like, I see I was Tina,and we've got Colton and Amy
and me and the four of us, and, I took onI didn't take on, like,
I gratefully and enthusiastically acceptedthe job late last year
for many reasons,but one was because as an entrepreneur,
(36:19):
I just really didn'twant to be working by myself anymore.
And I wanted to be in a team.
And I think the people that you work withand the people you spend
most time with, you've got to have peoplethat you can work well with.
And so they're part of my self-care.
And we have a podcast as well.
And I think our podcastis somewhat therapeutic.
And then just like just sayingmission focused
(36:41):
to, to myself, trying to be mindful,and I'm very grateful.
I'm lucky because I've got a kind,loving family as well.
So I'm not sayingthings are picture perfect now.
I can also feel extreme anxiety.
But I lean into those practicesand realizing that spiritual beings
having human experienceand this anxiety in these stories,
(37:03):
the biological brainmaking up these things
and being able to detach or observethose stories
and realize everything right nowis okay, right?
Live in the power of the now and that.
Says, yeah, mindfulness.
Be in the moment.
I like your positiveness, Fiona.
I think that that's so important.
And I heard that a lot
when I was listening to,the other podcasts that you are on.
(37:25):
And I also like I said this to Tonybecause he and I talk about
when this election did happen,people were obviously,
very down and in very, very bad spaces.
And the one thing that I saidto my son was,
and I heard you say this,which is why I'm bringing this up,
but I know Tony feels the same way.
I did say to my son that, listen,I don't believe for one second
(37:48):
that the majority of this country hatestransgender or LGBTQ.
I really, really believe that people are,of course, looking out for themselves and
and they are going to votefor what they feel is going to help
whatever situation they're in.
And it's hard for he's 17.
I think it's very hardfor him to understand and see that.
(38:08):
And, but I do think that
I, I'm not going to expect
someone to vote based uponwhat's right for me.
They're going to vote based uponwhat's right for them.
And that does not meanthat they have any hatred
or animosity towards my childor the LGBTQ community.
(38:30):
They just aren't thinking of it.
And so I,I was very excited to hear that from you
because I thought,like, it's hard to find people
that are just trying to find the positiveand trying to find the good and,
and keep movingand doing everything that you're doing
and realizing that there are good people,there really are good people out there.
And especially you being who you are.
(38:50):
Like when we were in the spotlight,when people know us
and we're sending that message to the kidsand, you know, I work with that's
all I do is work with kids.
And I keep telling them that.
What just exactly what you just said.
Like, not everybody hates you.This country doesn't hate you.
But also we feel what we focus on.
That's just plain and simple.
So we need to start focusing on even joy.
(39:11):
And a lot of peoplelook at me and say, Joy,
how can you talk about joyat a time like this?
No, we need to find joybecause that's resilience.
When we can be joyful in a time like now.
So I guess my next question to youwould be for our for our listeners,
how can we support your work?
What can we do to help youand the work that you're doing?
I think that's important.
(39:33):
Yeah. Thank you.
Number one is to have joy, feeljoy and share love.
Like, I live in Austin and,
last weekend there was a kite festival.
Thousands of people went to the park
down the streetwhere I live and flew kites.
Oh, and that is helping the world.
You know, like, in addition.
(39:53):
So they protesting and and flying kites.
Flying kites. Yeah.
And I think that we as a collectivecan all help one another
at an energetic level.
I know this is going to sound very woowooto some people, but I truly believe
this is like by youfinding joy in its simplest form
and experiencing that,and like being kind to somebody,
(40:16):
like giving somebody eye contactand a smile, you know,
in, in little places, like just being kind
is helping all of our collective work.
And I think that is so important.
I see the people in power at the momentwho are
attacking other people, us
(40:38):
a riddled with pain,
like,can you imagine how much they love it
themselves and can't acknowledge that?
You know, I think that we're seeing
an energetic force that is, is hurtingand that is not condone
that behavior or condone that destructionor condone the attack on the people.
(40:59):
But that's the wayI try and make sense of it and realize
that we can rise upand overcome through love.
I do not agree with the messaging
of fight hate, because if I want to create
an equitable societythat I want to promote love.
And, I think that that is a shiftin the language that could happen
(41:24):
at a top level down in order to like,
improve people's lives at all levels.
So I think
that that would be helpfulis to realize that
while hate exists,
I think that love and joy also exists.
And I think if people can be kind
to each other in themselvesand like, work on their own self-love,
(41:46):
then you are collaborating to all of thiscollective work.
On a practical level,if you want to support. Me,
I don't really.
Of course we do. Yes, of course we do.
I mean, I social I get the breaking news.
Yes, yes, yes Iwe would been waiting this whole time.
Okay.
(42:07):
Go for it.
In 2010,
I, you know, I came up with an ideafor a television show
and late last year, in fact,it was November the 1st.
It was the week before the election.
I got an official letter from Austin PBS
to be the presenting stationfor my TV show.
So we had distribution. Yay!
(42:28):
Congratulations.
Awesome, awesome.
Austin PBS will be the presenting station,and we'll take it to other PBS
kids around the country.
So we're thinking about 80 to 90% of PBSwill have the show.
The title is out with Fiona,and it's positive
stories of kindness and couragefrom the LGBTQ to us, plus community.
And it's bringing people together.
So there's somebody who, is queeridentified and somebody in that family
(42:52):
who loves and supports but just doesn'tquite get it and needs help understanding.
So I is like your Auntie Fiona, you know,you're female version of Mister Rogers.
You know, all time.I know how like show is.
Like if you take Queer Eye, Mister.
Rogers and then schoolhouseRock with like, the animated explainers,
mix that all up and you get. That's you.Yeah.
(43:13):
That's amazing.
So yeah, so that's the show.
And I think that anyone that wants to helpor watch, is like,
I guess I'll have a social media handle.
At some point.
But the website out withthe idea was there.
So I think for now, just like knowabout it, know that it's coming.
We are fundraising for it.
PBS, doesn't provide the funds,but they provide the distribution,
(43:34):
which is an independent filmmaker.
Getting distribution is huge.
Yeah.
Like and even before you've made it,so I'm very confident that will have
some foundations and, individualdonors, high net worth donors.
And then we'll have a community fund,so that if you, you want to give $1
just to give a vote to say, I want this,I support this and that time will come.
(43:56):
So I think just be aware of like,with with Fiona and feel, joy.
Be kind, be courageous in your lifeand then we're all helping each other.
Yeah.
What? Fiona, you're talking 15 years ago.
You put this out there, right?
We talked about that.
You talked about putting things outinto the universe. And this is what you.
You know what happens when you're ready?
(44:16):
It happens when you're ready.That's amazing.
Yeah, yeah, I've had to do a lotof self-growth myself.
And so it happens when I'm ready.
And then it happens when the.
The world, the universe needs it to.
I don't know, I'm speaking out as wellbecause like back 15 years ago,
I thought people needed to be educatedon LGBTQ plus issues.
And everyone wasI know, I know, we got marriage.
(44:37):
We done.
And then there was a while,
you know, duringthe Obama is when I'm thinking, well,
should I just give upbecause everyone gets it.
Everyone knows.
I know they clearly. Don't like that.
They don't.
They don't know.
Like, oh,and I'm going to be better at it now.
Like, I really know myself.
Like I knew myself. No,but now I really know.
So yeah.
Let me youthis delicious dessert or television.
(45:00):
Yeah, I can't wait I cannot wait.
And when you have this,we'll definitely post your website.
But when you have something elseto give us,
please give it to us,and we'll definitely throw it out there.
But I love the kindness thing.
You know me, Fiona,and you know I'm all about kindness.
Because kindness got your sweatshirt.
Yeah. Oh, you got my sweatshirt.
Yes, you did, butkindness has a boomerang effect, right?
(45:21):
So when we're kinder to ourselvesor kinder to others,
when we're kind of others,we're kind of story flows.
So it's happens organically.
So that's why I try to tell people,I mean, we have choice at the moment
to like stop and pause and say, okay,how am I going to handle the situation?
Sometimesthe power of my pause can be weeks.
If I can't say something kind of responseto what they said, I don't say anything.
(45:43):
Yeah.
So you're practicing kindness,which I think is great.
What else do you have to sayto our audience about,
you know, how is that how that how is thatpractice changed your life?
I mean, have you always been this?
Hey, I'm kind and have you?
Because I wasn't always this person.
You know, I was a very angry, growing up, being abused.
(46:04):
I know you got my you
I think I you bought a copy of my memoir,but I've had a really rough journey,
and a lot of people that have known mesay, say, how can you be so kind?
And how can you be so happy now?
Have you always been happyand joyful and kind.
And which is. Greatif you have been? Yeah.
No, I know I have like I feel likeyou need to ask this question to my dad.
(46:28):
Okay. And,because he'll get him. On the phone.
Can you get him on?
Yeah. Like dad is.
I think dad's been interviewed like, once.He doesn't like this.
Like my dad says, literally.
I do not know how your motherand I created you.
Like, you are just so different.
Like today.I am definitely very different.
(46:49):
Yeah.
From my from my immediate biological.
Well, from, like anyone elseI can think of in my biological family.
That, like.
Yeah, that my parents would shy awayfrom any attention.
I grew up in England where it's like,keep your head down.
Don'tyou know, don't make your head too big.
You gotta be able to walk through a door.
You know who do you think you are to gohave a television show?
(47:10):
That's just the famous people.
You're not one of those people like,you know.
And so I have had to work through,
internal self-doubt.
I've had to increase my self-love.
I've had to I've had to do a lot of work.
I didn't just like, this is this is likenearly 48 years in the making.
I'm proud of it.
But you were just. Why?I'm not hiding my wrinkles.
(47:31):
I refuse to talk to anyone.
I'm like,I'm working really hard to age like it.
It's like I'm proud of it.
Don't hide it like battle wounds,but I. Did.
I grew up very lucky.
Where, you know, I, I did experience,
so, sexual assault,
but it wasn't not, but it was is a
(47:53):
how do I mean, how do you decidethe spectrum of sexual assault,
but I wasn't yeah,I wasn't raised in an abusive family.
Like, I was very lucky in that my
I knew that my familyunconditionally loved me no matter what.
And, you know, they they may have hadthis, British sensibility
where, you know,you're meant to conform and fall in line.
(48:14):
But at the end of the day,they let me be me.
And I remember as a childwanting to be Princess Diana
because, I saw images of Princess Diana,
Diana visiting people on the streets,you know, living with HIV and Aids.
And I saw her walking through landmines,and I wanted to have
that kind of power to draw attentionto issues, to help make things better.
(48:37):
So I always kind of looked up to PrincessDiana, whereas at the same time,
my parents thought that she was like,they didn't approve of Princess Diana
because they thoughtshe grabbed the limelight too much.
You know,she was too much in the spotlight.
But my,
my, youknow, my dad has come to terms with this,
and I think my mother watches me now,and I feel like she shows me signs,
like, through monthswhere I think she validates who I am.
(49:00):
And, you know,whenever I've faced adversity,
my dad has always told me,if you had a you're like a cat,
you somehow just land on your feet.
I don't know how you do it.
And he's writtenthe sweetest notes to me.
Now, where
you know who he has said that he admires,like, my personal perseverance.
So I don't know.
(49:21):
Yeah. That's nice to hear from.
From your parents.
It's just nice to hear from a parent.
You know, my parents now are,you know, totally different towards me.
Just the other day,they're like, oh, my God.
We saw your speech at the Capitol.We're so proud of you.
And it it hits a place in my heartthat nobody else can hit.
And when it comes from a parent.
So I can feel that for sure.
(49:42):
It's very, very true. I would.
So. Yeah. Go ahead.
I want to check. Yes. Please do.
It did take a long time for my dadto get there.
And then in the same time,it took a long time for me
to believe in myself, in order to tell my dad.
No, I know who I am, I want,and there's been.
It doesn't just happen once and done.It's like many little secrets.
But one of the first times I remember iswhen our film Trans Military
(50:05):
was playing at the BFI flareFilm Festival in London.
So it's the LGBT.
BFI Festival is a big deal.
And, I, I went to London for the screening
and they watched the film,and then I stood on stage and my dad,
and his wife Jenny,and my family were all in the audience,
and dad watched me on stagegiving a Q&A and being able
(50:28):
to answer all of these questions aroundwhat we're talking about.
And I sat back down next to himand he looked at me in disbelief.
He's like, how did you do that? Like, you.
Really know your stuff, don't you. Like?Yes, dad.
Do you know that?
So I think it's been it'sbeen a it's a reciprocal relationship.
And so I would say, youknow, parents like love your kids so much.
(50:53):
You know, please love them.
Yeah.
It doesn't matter.
Fiona, I really enjoyed this conversationwith you.
I feel like we could go on and on,but I know that your time is valuable.
So, I thank you.
Thank. Yes, but thank you so muchfor being on with us.
We really look forwardto seeing everything transpire.
Yes. And, I know Tonyand I will absolutely be watching it.
(51:15):
Hopefully a PBS here and Connecticutwill pick it up and be.
Able to make sure it does. Fiona.We'll make sure it does.
Yes, but, don't be a stranger.
Reach out to us,let us know everything that you're doing.
And I'm just so proudto have got to know you.
So thank you.
Thank you for being with us. Sothank you, Sarah.
Thank you Tony. Thanks, everyone.Thank you.
Yes. Thanks, Fiona.
(51:36):
That's it guys.
Thank you so much.
Have a great day. Bye bye.
This episode is brought to youby Alex Incorporated.
Alex is a nonprofit organizationdedicated to creating
a safe, compassionate communitywhile empowering Lgbtq+ youth,
families, and allies through educational,emotional, and financial support.
We hold annual events to raise fundsin support of these goals.
(51:58):
Visit Alex Inc. Org for more information.
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