December 4, 2025 • 33 mins
How charitable dollars from foundations and donor advised funds (DAFs) can open up the door to a wave of financing for your next creative project.
Rick Davis of LOHAS delivers a clear and disciplined breakdown of how filmmakers can tap into the power of charitable foundations and donor advised funds (DAFs). This conversation guides filmmakers, attorneys, and accountants through practical strategies for using charitable dollars to support projects stuck in development and to invest in the growing field of social impact entertainment. Davis explains how these funding sources can unlock meaningful capital for mission-driven films, helping creative projects move forward while aligning with the philanthropic goals of foundations and donors.
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Episode Transcript
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Kayvan Mashayekh (00:03):
Welcome to Producers Without Borders.
We're very happy today to uhhave a conversation with my dear
friend Rick Davis of LOHAS inAustin, Texas.
And uh I can't tell you howgrateful I am for him to be uh
able to be a part of this uhpodcast today because uh Rick is
(00:23):
not only a friend, I've knownhim since uh my college days,
but he's also instrumental inthe way we have been able to
shape PWB's financial futurethrough his organization called
Producers InternationalFoundation.
Is that correct?
Rick Davis (00:36):
That's absolutely correct.
Kayvan Mashayekh (00:38):
So Rick and I went to Rice together years ago,
uh as we say, umpteen yearsago, and uh and and it's been an
incredible journey so far as wehave uh been able to kind of
take PWB to the next level bycreating this opportunity for
filmmakers that uh want to knowmore about financing through
charitable means because younever think about that.
There's a lot of people outthere right now that are trying
(01:00):
to get their films financedthrough traditional means by
going in uh after um equity ordebt or incentives and all that.
But there's one part of thatpuzzle that always re-remains a
bit um in the fog for manypeople who don't know about it.
And today I'm grateful to haveRick over here uh to tell us how
(01:21):
uh charitable foundations anduh donor-advised funds can be
utilized uh in a way to uhobtain financing for projects
that uh would never even knowhow to avail themselves of that.
So let's take it away.
Rick Davis.
Rick Davis (01:39):
Good morning.
Good to talk to you, Kayvan.
And uh happy to answer whateverquestions I can.
I I I think you're right.
It's not only that they can,but that they should.
Uh that this is a a greatpathway for charitable funding.
Kayvan Mashayekh (01:52):
Yeah, so let's let's walk through it.
Um I'm a filmmaker and I'mtrying to make uh a film uh
around the one and a half to twomillion dollar uh range, and um
I have like a 30% chunk ofequity, but I I want to kind of
mix it up and try to uh uh beable to access funds that
otherwise I wouldn't be able todo through charitable uh means
(02:12):
and uh walk me through thatprocess.
How would I go about doingthat?
What do I do?
Step one, step two, step three.
Rick Davis (02:19):
Yeah, no, I I think what I would start with is that
we focus, and this is a termthat maybe is is not always
heard, but uh and maybe notfully appreciated, but we talk
about focusing on social impactentertainment.
Um and often I think partiesthink that means documentaries
and things of that nature.
Um, but in reality, the arts uhin and of themselves have a
(02:41):
great impact.
Um, we love to see how messagesand uh things with meaning can
get woven into narratives andthings of that nature, and it
can mean a variety of differentthings.
Uh it could be the underlyingtopic matter of the production,
it could be um the kinds offilmmakers that are making it,
uh, it could be any number ofthings.
(03:03):
I I I as a very broad example,I always talk that, you know,
was Avatar a sci-fi movie, orwas it a movie about
environmentalism and indigenousrights?
Uh was Taken an action movie,or was it a movie to raise
awareness about humantrafficking?
Um so there are lots ofembedded ideas of impact that
(03:23):
find their way into theentertainment space, and we'd
love to see those get on screen.
Um, and clearly they need moneyto do that.
And so happy to explain that,but I do think it starts there
about uh because when we'retalking about charitable money,
I think there needs to be somesort of mental connection
between the donor and grantorand the and the idea that they
want to see get on screen, youknow, some sort of impactful
(03:45):
notion that they would like tosee embedded in in what they're
doing.
Uh and uh and entertainment hasthis amazing power to change
hearts and minds, uh, even whenit's just sort of subtly
embedded in a in a production.
Um uh our our our mutual frienduh Will Nix talks about uh uh
you know uh filmmakers sneakingthe spinach in the popcorn, uh,
(04:08):
which I think is a wonderful wayof thinking about impact.
Um I I'm a I'm a big fan of thethe Arthur Miller, the
playwright Arthur Miller's uhterm of felt knowledge, that you
that you come out of somethingand you just know something, not
because somebody hits you overthe head with it in a
documentary style necessarily,but because you know you sort of
(04:28):
felt what happened there.
Who were the good guys, whowere the bad guys, why did what
made them good?
Uh and and if we can do thatand ideally raise some awareness
about some key issues, uh maybechange some hearts and minds of
parties that didn't uh wouldn'thave all all you know, wouldn't
have known those thingsotherwise.
I think that's a verysuccessful production.
Um so that so that's a longintro to your very uh uh simple
(04:50):
question, which is how do youfinance this stuff?
You know, like uh what do wedo?
Uh how how do we how do we makehow do we make it ideally
easier for the filmmaker or theproducer to raise that capital?
Kayvan Mashayekh (05:02):
Uh because well, what I'm hearing from you
right now is the fact that storymatters.
Number one, the story has to beuh something that resonates
within the confines of your theparameters where you can access
those charitable funds.
It just can't be some kind ofyou know uh thing that's thrown
out there and say, hey, give methe money.
So uh I think uh that's veryclear from the way you described
(05:24):
it in the examples you stated.
Uh and those are those arefantastic films.
The reason being uh the thestory and the messaging was was
tied into a lot of those uhsocial impact issues that you're
talking about.
Rick Davis (05:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
I I I think there has to bethat bright line between the the
the story that's told and theparty who is providing the
charitable funds.
And so I think it starts there.
And it could be, hey, uh we'rea diverse set of filmmakers and
you know we're we're not gettingaccess to that kind of capital.
And maybe that's the kind ofthing that a donor or grantor
wants to support in and ofitself, uh, above and beyond the
(06:00):
storyline.
So it can be any number ofthings.
But ultimately, the idea is howdo you uh tap into that kind of
financing?
And and as you noted, umthere's a lot of charitable
money sitting out there to startwith.
Uh I don't think everyone'sfully apprised of the fact that
just within donor-advised fundsalone, there's probably 250 to
(06:20):
300 billion in the United Statesjust sitting there.
Um it's already been allocated,someone's already received
their tax deduction.
It's just waiting for thatdonor who set it aside to decide
how to deploy it.
Um, there's also, you know,some 65,000 private foundations
in this country.
Each of them have a 5%allocation requirement, what's
(06:41):
typically thought of as grantfunding from foundations.
Um and then parties just makead hoc donations.
We're we're we're coming up onthe end of the year.
The end of the year tends to bea time where a lot of just ad
hoc checks get written forcharitable purposes to offset
your year's taxes.
And all of those kinds ofcapital are good sources of
funding for entertainmentproductions.
Kayvan Mashayekh (07:03):
Um, this pertains specifically for um uh
filmmakers in the United Statesor somebody from outside the
United States, can they accessthose too?
So it probably becomes a littlebit more complicated if you're
outside the United States.
But what we're talking about isreally for U.S.
filmmakers, U.S.
based filmmakers.
Rick Davis (07:20):
It, not necessarily.
Uh what I would say is it it itthat's that's not the So LOHAS,
uh we can accept donations andgrants from anywhere in the
world, and we can deployinvestment in productions
anywhere in the world.
We do, however, use U.S.
charitable vehicles to receivethose funds, and so it tends to
be parties that are comp umsupporting are using uh you know
(07:45):
ha are in the US or haveoperations in the US, so they
have some U.S.
tax offset appetite.
Um so it's not the recipient ofthe funds that typically is in
the U.S.
uh they can be anywhere, and wedeploy funds internationally
weekly.
But uh it is important that theparties you're from whom you're
seeking the funding probably,if we're working with them,
(08:06):
probably are in the U.S.
And one of the great things uhabout the United States tax code
as it relates to philanthropyis we have a very progressive
mindset on that in the UnitedStates that allows uh funds to
be utilized in a variety of uh,I think, very innovative ways.
The donor- advised fund in andof itself is a is a great
innovation that allows partiesto set aside money and get an
(08:26):
immediate tax deduction anddecide later whether it's what
I'm seeing, it's it's veryinteresting.
Kayvan Mashayekh (08:30):
So what I'm hearing from you is that there
could be a whole slew of newproducers out there that could
go out and just specificallyspecialize fundraising through
these charitable means and justfocus on that.
I mean, if you're telling methat donor-advised funds are or
have a what an allocation of 250to 350 billion just sit in
there, I mean there should beproducers who are just focused
(08:50):
on finding out what thosedonor-advised funds are and how
to access them through companieslike yourself.
Rick Davis (08:57):
So the check like that.
Absolutely, and and weencourage parties to, you know,
who are raising money to makesure they're asking about that.
One of the things about DAFs inparticular, and that's the
common acronym for donor-advisedfunds, is that by law they're
anonymous.
Uh, and and what I mean by thatis you you don't know who has
one and how much money they havein it.
(09:19):
Uh, so there's no database youcan go to to look it up.
It literally requires directdialogue with that donor or
maybe their financial advisor.
Um, and donor- advised fundsare set up by individuals and
sometimes families.
Uh, and so if you're seekingmoney from a you're raising
money and go back to ourhypothetical $2 million
production budget, um, andyou're talking to someone who
(09:40):
you think might align with thatin some capacity, uh, you should
be not as an intro, but afteryou've told them about the movie
and hey, you'd love your theirsupport in it.
If they're leaning in, say,hey, do you have a donor-
advised fund?
Um, or do you have by chance afamily foundation?
Or were you planning on makingan end-of-year contribution?
All of that money could be usedto invest in my production.
(10:02):
Um, and notably, if if you ifyou're interested in doing so,
it can be structured such thatwhen my $2 million turns into a
very successful production andand makes a nice return, maybe
get some nominations and thingsof that nature, um, that the
money invested, those charitablefunds invested in my
production, can go back to thatparty's charitable pocket.
(10:24):
Uh, meaning they can investtheir donor-advised funds in
that production and have thefinancial returns ff returned to
it, or they can invest theirfoundation's grant funds in that
production and have the returnsflow back to the foundation.
Kayvan Mashayekh (10:36):
But that's after they've gotten their, if
they've gotten their tax credit,I guess any income that comes
back into it would be taxablethen.
Rick Davis (10:42):
No, no, no.
No, it's not because it's it'scoming back to their charitable
pocket.
So no.
Now, if it's coming back to afoundation, that foundation may
have more money that it needs togive out the next year in its
grant pool.
I refer to that as a goodproblem to have.
Oh, we have to, dang it, wehave to do more good uh next
year than we were planning on.
Right.
Um, but the the the importantpoint is that if you're not
(11:04):
asking when you're raisingmoney, you're literally leaving
money on the table becausecharitable money is a very
common thing for parties withmoney.
Let's be clear.
We don't go to investorsbecause they're poor.
We go to investors because webelieve them to have money that
might be able to be put in ourproduction.
Uh while while they wereearning that wealth, it's very
possible, very likely in fact,that over the course of time
(11:26):
they have set money aside tooffset those taxes as they make
money.
Kayvan Mashayekh (11:29):
But let's also let's make something clear.
I mean, your your yourorganization, LOHAS, isn't
something where you guys arereceiving scripts and reading
scripts and doing stuff likethat.
So I want to be very clear.
No, that's great.
Rick Davis (11:40):
I really appreciate your idea because we're not.
Kayvan Mashayekh (11:41):
I mean, because I mean I know that after
this podcast, people can say,oh, LOHAS, let me look them up.
You know what I mean?
Austin, Texas.
Rick Davis (11:49):
ell, uh, hey, and our partners are New York,
Texas, and California based.
Just me and Austin.
They're everywhere.
But uh we are not investors,first and foremost.
Um, and that's it comes as adisappointment to a lot of
folks.
They think, oh, well, you know,they're you're sitting on X
amount of charitable money forinvestment.
Uh, and on some level we are,uh, but that bel that is at the
(12:09):
direction of the donors.
We manage a donor- advisedfund, for example.
Um, and it's it's exclusivelyfocused on impact investing.
So we have a variety of donorsthat that have money that is
that that we help support in thein in that manner, but we're
not placement agents, we're notmatching deals to donors.
That's not what we do.
We're we're at our core, we'rea philanthropic intermediary
(12:30):
focused on impact investing.
Right.
So we we enable the flow ofcharitable money into impactful
ventures like the productionsthat we're talking about, but
it's incumbent on the partiesraising the money to find those
donors and grantors that want tosupport their production.
And then we will enable that to
Kayvan Mashayekh (12:47):
And also when they go to your website, they
see a whole panoply, uh a tilework of different foundations
and and donor-advised funds thatthey can they can look into to
see, hey, uh maybe this is theorganization I need to be
talking to.
Well sub the subject.
Rick Davis (13:00):
Yeah, I mean, that's they probably see, well, for
one, they see Producers WithoutBorders, right?
Kayvan Mashayekh (13:05):
They see Well, they see Producers
International Foundation,they're not gonna be able to do
that.
And they see ProducersInternational Foundation.
Rick Davis (13:09):
Right.
And and maybe that that that'sworth uh explaining.
So one of the things that we dois, you know, what typically
gets termed fiscal sponsorprograms in the entertainment
space, uh, we do that a littlebit differently in that we're
really creating these charitableprograms to support the
impactful missions of a varietyof organizations.
I I think it's well over ahundred now.
(13:30):
Um and many of them are in theentertainment space.
Produce Without Borders beingone of them.
As you noted, we manage, as youknow, at the front, we manage
Produce InternationalFoundation, which is the
nonprofit pathway to support thegreat work that PWB does.
Um and we do that for a lot ofparties in the entertainment
space that slate funds uh in thesocial impact entertainment
(13:53):
space, uh, you know, uhindividual productions, holding
companies that do a lot ofthings in the entertainment
space where we are thatnonprofit gateway for parties to
be able to use charitable moneyto ultimately invest in the
those those productions uh andand their various activities.
Kayvan Mashayekh (14:11):
So uh it just takes me back to our talk a
couple of years ago during theCannes Film Festival where we're
at the American Pavilion, youand I, and uh you had mentioned
something that was uh absolutelystunning.
I believe if correct me,because I know it's it's I'm I'm
uh my my memory may be a littlebit foggy and my stats may be a
little bit off, but I'm sure intoday's world everything can be
(14:32):
checked and double checked veryquickly.
So I believe there was astatement you made that within
the next 10 years, there's gonnabe what 20 trillion dollars of
wealth transfer from onegeneration to another.
Rick Davis (14:44):
Yeah, it's more than that.
But it's more than that now.
But but nonetheless, it let'sjust say it's a big number.
Um and the relevance of thisgenerational wealth transfer to
the conversation we're having,uh, and this isn't uh a knock on
old white guys because I amone, but there is less uh focus
(15:05):
in older generations towardssocial and environmental impact
than there are in youngergenerations.
And and and that data isoverwhelmingly clear.
Uh and so as money changeshands and and more accurately
the control over funds changeshands, the expectation, we're
already seeing this, is thatthere will be more and more
(15:26):
focus on not just making a buck,but making a buck while ideally
making the world a little bitbetter place.
Um and what what you care aboutand what I care about and what
others care, it could all bedifferent, um, and that's fine.
Um, but beginning to think of,hey, uh maybe that's the kind of
message I'd like to see onscreen, or the kind of company
(15:47):
that I would like to support, orthe kind of thing where I
believe it could be financiallysuccessful, but also uh ideally,
like I said, make, you know,have a have a people or planet
uh filter to some extent.
And so we we fully expect, andwe're already starting to see
it, more and more parties wantto use funds in that way.
And charitable money is reallyjust the other pocket of
(16:09):
funding.
Kayvan Mashayekh (16:10):
You're basically saying you're gonna be
supercharging and turbochargingthis creator economy that's uh
that's out there that's uhputting content out directly, uh
DTC directly to their consumersthrough or or viewers or
however you want to call it, uhthrough the you know, the
available channels that are youknow a lot of young people go
to, which is YouTube and andTikTok and and so on and so
forth.
Rick Davis (16:30):
I think we're gonna see a huge proliferation of of
that.
And and from our world, I meanour focus, we're exclusively
focused on enabling the flow ofcharitable money to invest in
those kinds of things.
Uh you know, we we fully expectto be supporting that for for
many years to come.
Kayvan Mashayekh (16:47):
And uh and I think you know this brings up
another subject because uh youevery time you you you so
eloquently uh lay this out foreveryone, uh the issue of IP and
you know, and and how this canalso shape future IP.
If you're doing social impactuh storytelling and uh the it
becomes something that goesviral, then you want to be able
(17:09):
to own that IP.
And if you're an individualfilmmaker, you want to be able
to have control of it, not havesomebody else who's distributing
it say, okay, I'm gonna buy itout from you, and then I'm gonna
control it and I'm gonnamassage it the way I want.
So I think my encouragement forfuture filmmakers is to really
focus on that, you know, tofocus on the fact that, okay, go
after charitable foundationsand donor- advised funds and all
(17:30):
the things that you're talkingabout by by finding out who
those people are and if they dohave them, and if if so, can
they support your storytellingvision that has a social impact?
But remember that, you know,hold on to that because that's
that's what that's how you buildyour brand.
I mean, uh that's how we wereable to build our brand with
Producers Without Borders over anumber of years.
(17:51):
But you know, we're just anetwork of doers and not
talkers, givers and not takers,and that that really puts
together this uh uh thispanoply, uh, this quilt of
different ethnicities that arethat are producers from all over
the world that that createthese opportunities.
So I'm grateful that uh umyou're able to give us that kind
of insight.
I want to know uh what otherwhat are the three things you
(18:14):
recommend to filmmakers today,uh the step by step um that that
would help them enable them tounderstand what you're saying a
lot easier and better.
Because I think the way you youspeak is just so powerful and
so straightforward, butsometimes it could overwhelm
people, it could it it couldmake them feel timid.
(18:36):
Like I need to actually golearn have take a course to
understand what Rick is sayingbecause uh I mean I get it
because we're both lawyers orwhatever, but you know, I can is
is there any like a 101 levelway of trying to do that?
Rick Davis (18:49):
Yeah, no, it's a great it's a really great point,
and and I'll tell you why it'sa particular challenge is not
only in in the vein of what yousaid, is it the parties raising
money are you know ill-informedwith regard to how to ask for,
think about, incorporate thatkind of funding.
(19:09):
But overwhelmingly, the partieswith charitable money have no
idea any of this is possible.
So that's worth pausing on fora second.
That means of those half atrillion dollars sitting in
charitable pockets, 99% of thoseparties have no idea that that
charitable money can be used toinvest in your hypothetical
social impact entertainmentproduction.
(19:31):
So you're you're already upagainst it from a fundraising
perspective, because uh, youknow, you're you're you can't be
sitting there expecting thatfunder to lean over and go, hey,
can I use my DAF to invest inthis?
Because most of them don't knowthey can do that.
Um, so it's incumbent upon you,first and foremost, the
fundraiser, uh, you know, toeducate yourself a little bit in
(19:52):
the vein of what we're talkingabout, and then ultimately
educate your funder.
I I refer to it as a two-waystreet of ignorance.
You don't know who has a DAF,and they don't know that they
can use that money they have toinvest in your production.
And so the solution to that isfor the fundraiser to take the
initiative and say, hey, I justtold you my production, by the
way, do you have a donor-advised fund?
(20:12):
And did you know you could beinvesting that in in my work?
Um and that's that's first andforemost where it starts.
Like if you're not educatingthe foundation that their grant
funds can be utilized to investin your movie or the party with
the donor- advised fund, thatthey can take that money and
invest, uh honestly, it's shameon you at this point.
Kayvan Mashayekh (20:30):
Well, uh, but let me uh uh expand on that a
little bit.
A lot of times they'll if youask that question, so well, we
need to talk to our lawyers, andthe the lawyers don't even
know.
Rick Davis (20:38):
Sometimes Oh no, they definitely don't.
And the financial advisordoesn't, and the CPA doesn't.
Kayvan Mashayekh (20:42):
And that's just it.
Rick Davis (20:43):
So that that is a role that LOHAS can play.
Right.
So while we're not an investorourselves, um, we are investing
other parties' money.
But uh what we do uh is wesupport our clients' fundraising
activities, and that's how wedo it, not by identifying a
donor and grantor, but ratherbeing free to talk with
meaningful, with donors andgrantors that have meaningful
(21:05):
charitable money that aresincerely interested in
supporting whatever thatinitiative is, but who have
questions.
And by the way, it's verycommon for parties to have very
reasonable.
If you've run a foundation fora hundred years and given out
grant money every single year,and someone knocks on your door
and says, Did you know insteadof just giving money away, you
could take that same grant moneyand invest it in Kayvan's, you
(21:26):
know, uh social impactentertainment production.
And when it's reallysuccessful, have that money come
back to your foundation.
I will tell you that meltstheir mind a little bit because
they're like, What are youtalking about?
We've never done that.
That can't be right.
Our lawyer says that's notright.
You can't do that.
And what we always encourageis, you know what, let us talk
to them.
Um, because once theyunderstand a little bit, then
you know what we what we know,because we've now done this for
(21:48):
a number of years, is oncethey've done it, they're like,
oh, okay, well, now we want todo that again.
It's a magical grant, suddenly.
It's the grant that gives back.
Kayvan Mashayekh (21:56):
What I'm hearing is that what you're
talking about is just bear withme.
It's like it's a marketing andbranding issue for on your side,
because uh bear with me,because the it the anytime
somebody it gets to this parttime of the year, which is uh
late October, November,December, that that the Q4 is
what I call it, they startscrambling for that for that tax
(22:17):
deduction.
They want they want thatcertificate, that 501(c)(3)
certificate that I'm able to usethis.
So they they think about thethe big boys on the block.
You know, the Red Crosses, theAmerican Cancer Society
Rick Davis (22:29):
It's the house of worship, it's the university,
and it's the hospital.
Kayvan Mashayekh (22:32):
Because those are easy.
They don't have to think aboutit.
That that brand is out there,they know it's legit, it's
whatever it is, they don't lookat the administrative costs of
some of these, some of these,some, some of these 501(c)(3)s,
but because it's a brand, theyhave that brand and and it's
easy for them to understand.
Yep.
But whenever you're talkingabout Joe Schmo's foundation, is
and and it's a 501(c)(3).
(22:53):
Well, wait a minute, I can youyou give my money to to them and
they can invest it in a socialimpact.
Yeah, they they don't knowthat.
So that's it.
So that becomes a marketing inmy in my world, what because
what you're talking about isit's what it's let let let us
talk, let us talk to thembecause what we're doing is 100%
legitimate, but we don't havethat kind of name recognition of
(23:14):
those big charitableorganizations, and that's where
the disconnect is.
And I think
Rick Davis (23:19):
It's an education challenge.
You can call it a marketingchallenge, it's an education
challenge.
They're intermixed because howdo you get the how do you get
the message out there?
And the path we've chosen is towork with parties raising
capital for social impactventures, um, including the
entertainment space, to say youshould know these things.
So you become, if you will, oureducational channel to the
(23:43):
world of funders to let themknow that, hey, those funds you
have and then your donor-advised, and you that money you
have at Fidelity Charitable orVanguard or your community
foundation, that same money canbe reallocated to invest in that
very cool movie or televisionshow or play or cool company
that's really trying to make theworld a better place.
Kayvan Mashayekh (24:03):
So I think the way to do that is to go after
the younger generation and letthem educate them and know so
that they know who to what kindof questions to ask.
Uh so tell us about what LOHAS,what kind of like um
educational programs LOHAS hasto let people know about this.
Rick Davis (24:20):
Well, you know, uh we we tend to sit down on
podcasts with old friends fromRice University.
And ideally, no, I mean we wedo the best we can.
Um our partners at you know arein New York, Texas, California.
We we're very active in theinvestment community and the
impact investment community,trying to share this message and
just make sure people areaware.
(24:42):
Uh it you know, always feelsglacial to me, but but we've
grown considerably and we help alot of people.
So hopefully that that trendline will will continue.
Uh but that but it is that thatis our underlying challenge is
that uh you know you justparties don't know that that
this is a pathway to usecharitable funds.
And you know, we talk aboutrethinking uh how you use your
(25:04):
charitable dollars and that youcould be a more active
participant in the impact worldwith it.
And and and I'll take a stepback on that.
I I actually think,particularly as it relates to
donor- advised funds, it'simperative because right now, of
that 250 billion plus, almostall that money is sitting in the
public markets.
Um it's it's sitting insomebody's donor- advised fund
(25:27):
account while they wait todecide what they're going to do
with it.
And meanwhile, that money isyou know invested in fossil
fuels companies and weaponsmanufacturers and things of that
nature.
So charitable money, money thatwas set aside for a charitable,
impactful purpose, is insteadbeing invested in a variety of
things that probably don't alignwith most donors' visions and
missions and things of thatnature.
Kayvan Mashayekh (25:48):
Why?
Because it has to be invested.
It can't just sit and cash.
Rick Davis (25:50):
All money is invested, right?
No, no, you know, with theexception of the the the
eccentric that's digging a holein their backyard, everyone's
putting that money somewhere.
And and those parties,Fidelity, is investing it in its
own mutual funds and ETFs, uh,with the idea that, hey, we'll
grow it for you, and thensomeday in the future you can
donate it out, which is which isokay.
I would argue, however,remember if I'm a donor and I
(26:13):
have money in a donor- advisedfund, no matter how well or how
poorly that investment of fundsdoes, I'm never seeing it again.
It's gone.
It's not my money anymore.
I've set it aside, I've gottenmy tax deduction.
I would argue that is theoptimal money, you know, sort of
monopoly money for you, butvery real to the recipient that
you can go and be an impactinvestor with.
Um, and in fact, going back toyour original question on the
(26:34):
three things, um, one of thethings I would say, uh harking
back to your hypothetical $2million production, is where is
that production?
Like, is this your, hey, I gota great idea?
Um, and we're gonna make amovie and it's about this, but
I'm at the developmental stage.
I think at the developmentalstage, if you're not using
charitable money, you're you'rebeing unnecessarily bold with
(26:57):
your investment portfolio.
What I would say is, hey, we'rewe're at that developmental
stage.
We'd love the first, whateverit is, half million in that in
that budget to help us get ascript, get, you know, uh talent
assigned, get a director, youknow, maybe get a distribution
deal, whatever it is.
And then that next million thatwe're raising, maybe that is
(27:17):
investment.
Maybe at that point, maybe thatbecomes a better investment.
And if I'm in the movie financeworld or I'd like to get in it,
that's the time that I mightstep in and write a check.
Like, I think you can be bothdon the investor of donated or
granted funds and the futureinvestor in the same deal.
Like you've you've seeded thedeal, you've catalyzed the
(27:40):
project to get it to aproduction equity stage where
now you're like, oh, you may yougot so-and-so associated with
it, you got this amazing scriptnow.
Yeah, now I want to step in andI want to write a check out of
my investment portfolio.
And by the way, maybe I've donethat a half dozen or a dozen
times, and only some of them getto that stage.
So I'm placing bets ondifferent things using my
(28:00):
charitable money.
Remember, no matter how well orhow poorly it does, it has no
real impact on me financially.
Um, but some of those are goingto, you know, are going to get
into that production stage.
And and those are the onesmaybe now that I really do get
behind uh with with myinvestment portfolio.
Kayvan Mashayekh (28:18):
Okay.
That was very well stated.
I think that uh one of theother things that a lot of
filmmakers in in America thatare seeking capital, I mean, um
they always go the 181 route,which you know, um, and that's
something that um their advisorstell them to go because that's
an available tool.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's another thing.
So for for many, manyfilmmakers in the United States,
(28:40):
they go to 181 route or they gothe if they if they're seeking
charitable funds, they go thenow which you're telling me
donor- advised funds orcharitable foundations.
First thing they need to do,contact LOHAS, ask them the
questions that uh ask the thefoundations the questions.
Do you have charitable fundsthat then do you know that you
can invest in in films withthat?
(29:01):
And and to and to talk toLOHAS.
Rick Davis (29:04):
And if you want a reminder on the questions you
should be asking, you canabsolutely go to our website,
LOHAS.org.
There's a thought leadershipsection, there's brochures and
blah, blah, blah, that havethose sort of questions that
that you should be asking.
The the time you you reach outto LOHAS is when you have a
donor or grantor that's ready todo that or that is leaning in
(29:24):
and has maybe the questions,like we were talking earlier.
And we're happy to answer anydonor or grantor questions about
how they can participate withtheir capital in that way.
Kayvan Mashayekh (29:32):
And also to communicate with their
professionals, their accountantsand lawyers.
Rick Davis (29:35):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I mean, this is something thatis poorly understood by the
financial advisory world.
It, you know, and and it's ashame because I will say that a
lot of those financial advisorshave clients that are talking to
them about impact investing andmaybe aren't well versed on it,
and maybe you're uncomfortablethinking about, hey, I'm going
to send my clients' investmentportfolio funds into a deal.
(29:57):
But this is a way for them totake money they've, you know,
that they They've set aside, inessence, with their client and
allowed that to be the at leastthe initial pool of impact
investment capital.
And I think that's going tobecome increasingly important
for the wealth transfer, thegenerational wealth transfer
aspect that you've mentioned.
Kayvan Mashayekh (30:13):
Alright, so let's uh as we wrap this up, um
what what's the final thing thatyou want uh people to get from
this discussion, which isgoing to be very impactful, I
believe.
I hate to use that word overand over again because it's just
like it it's it's becoming uh alittle bit too much where
everybody just uses the sameword.
(30:33):
But I think the word I like touse is purposeful.
Yeah.
Um, you know, what's thepurpose of all this?
What's the why are we doing allthis?
And and I'd like for you toelaborate a little bit about
that before we wrap up.
What's the purpose of all this?
And that that purpose is reallyto um uh to create
opportunities at whereopportunities would never have
existed before.
Rick Davis (30:55):
That's absolutely the case.
Uh I I am uh so happy every dayto see the volume of filmmakers
and company leaders and fundmanagers uh that we work with
that are out really taking greatstories, uh trying to do great
things, and and that is uh youknow is it makes all of our work
(31:17):
at LOHAS uh that much moremeaningful uh in in that regard.
Uh I I I think it's it's apurposeful pathway in that
respect.
Um the the one thing I think Iwould leave uh your audience
with is just a a reminder to askthe questions when you're
(31:39):
raising money.
Uh it is is so important to notsit down with someone and only
ask about the money they have inone pocket and not ask about
the money they have in theother.
Um if you're not asking, youshould not be expecting to raise
that money.
Uh and and you know, I thinkwhat you will find is there are
a lot of people out there thatwould love to support your
(31:59):
production if they only knewthey could do so with money that
they had set aside anyway, thatthey weren't planning on making
any money.
I mean, earn your producers'credit, get invited to the
premiere, uh get to brag at thecocktail party um about this.
That's a heck of a lot morefun.
Kayvan Mashayekh (32:13):
Get invited to Producers Without Borders.
Rick Davis (32:15):
Get invited to Producers Without Borders, very
cool events globally.
Um exactly.
Uh you know,
Kayvan Mashayekh (32:20):
Shameless self-plug, but it's okay.
Rick Davis (32:22):
With charitable money that you had set aside
anyway.
Uh I think there's a lot morefun things parties can do than
what they're currently doing,which is either sitting on it or
going those more commonpathways at the end of the year
that you were talking about.
Kayvan Mashayekh (32:34):
Yeah, so uh thank you for that, Rick.
It's been a great pleasure tospeak with you.
And uh, as we're coming to theconclusion of this uh podcast,
uh uh the last one we did wasalso Texas-based.
And so I'm I'm I'm trying to doas many uh of these uh in my
home state because it'simportant to get the messaging
out about how great this stateis, because there's so many
(32:54):
people like yourselves and likeAlfred and like Charles that uh
come that always want us to todo the best we can to get
information out for thecommunity so that they have
access to to things that theydon't they would otherwise
otherwise not have.
Uh and in conclusion, uh we'regonna wrap it up in London uh in
a a uh in December uh with atalk about uh human intelligence
(33:18):
versus artificial intelligenceat the Focus uh London
Conference with Dr.
Edward Frankel and myself.
And we look forward to seeingyou there or at a future
podcast.
Thank you so much, Rick Davis.
Rick Davis (33:31):
Thank you for having me.
Welcome to Producers Without Borders.
We're very happy today to uhhave a conversation with my dear
friend Rick Davis of LOHAS inAustin, Texas.
And uh I can't tell you howgrateful I am for him to be uh
able to be a part of this uhpodcast today because uh Rick is
(00:23):
not only a friend, I've knownhim since uh my college days,
but he's also instrumental inthe way we have been able to
shape PWB's financial futurethrough his organization called
Producers InternationalFoundation.
Is that correct?
Rick Davis (00:36):
That's absolutely correct.
Kayvan Mashayekh (00:38):
So Rick and I went to Rice together years ago,
uh as we say, umpteen yearsago, and uh and and it's been an
incredible journey so far as wehave uh been able to kind of
take PWB to the next level bycreating this opportunity for
filmmakers that uh want to knowmore about financing through
charitable means because younever think about that.
There's a lot of people outthere right now that are trying
(01:00):
to get their films financedthrough traditional means by
going in uh after um equity ordebt or incentives and all that.
But there's one part of thatpuzzle that always re-remains a
bit um in the fog for manypeople who don't know about it.
And today I'm grateful to haveRick over here uh to tell us how
(01:21):
uh charitable foundations anduh donor-advised funds can be
utilized uh in a way to uhobtain financing for projects
that uh would never even knowhow to avail themselves of that.
So let's take it away.
Rick Davis.
Rick Davis (01:39):
Good morning.
Good to talk to you, Kayvan.
And uh happy to answer whateverquestions I can.
I I I think you're right.
It's not only that they can,but that they should.
Uh that this is a a greatpathway for charitable funding.
Kayvan Mashayekh (01:52):
Yeah, so let's let's walk through it.
Um I'm a filmmaker and I'mtrying to make uh a film uh
around the one and a half to twomillion dollar uh range, and um
I have like a 30% chunk ofequity, but I I want to kind of
mix it up and try to uh uh beable to access funds that
otherwise I wouldn't be able todo through charitable uh means
(02:12):
and uh walk me through thatprocess.
How would I go about doingthat?
What do I do?
Step one, step two, step three.
Rick Davis (02:19):
Yeah, no, I I think what I would start with is that
we focus, and this is a termthat maybe is is not always
heard, but uh and maybe notfully appreciated, but we talk
about focusing on social impactentertainment.
Um and often I think partiesthink that means documentaries
and things of that nature.
Um, but in reality, the arts uhin and of themselves have a
(02:41):
great impact.
Um, we love to see how messagesand uh things with meaning can
get woven into narratives andthings of that nature, and it
can mean a variety of differentthings.
Uh it could be the underlyingtopic matter of the production,
it could be um the kinds offilmmakers that are making it,
uh, it could be any number ofthings.
(03:03):
I I I as a very broad example,I always talk that, you know,
was Avatar a sci-fi movie, orwas it a movie about
environmentalism and indigenousrights?
Uh was Taken an action movie,or was it a movie to raise
awareness about humantrafficking?
Um so there are lots ofembedded ideas of impact that
(03:23):
find their way into theentertainment space, and we'd
love to see those get on screen.
Um, and clearly they need moneyto do that.
And so happy to explain that,but I do think it starts there
about uh because when we'retalking about charitable money,
I think there needs to be somesort of mental connection
between the donor and grantorand the and the idea that they
want to see get on screen, youknow, some sort of impactful
(03:45):
notion that they would like tosee embedded in in what they're
doing.
Uh and uh and entertainment hasthis amazing power to change
hearts and minds, uh, even whenit's just sort of subtly
embedded in a in a production.
Um uh our our our mutual frienduh Will Nix talks about uh uh
you know uh filmmakers sneakingthe spinach in the popcorn, uh,
(04:08):
which I think is a wonderful wayof thinking about impact.
Um I I'm a I'm a big fan of thethe Arthur Miller, the
playwright Arthur Miller's uhterm of felt knowledge, that you
that you come out of somethingand you just know something, not
because somebody hits you overthe head with it in a
documentary style necessarily,but because you know you sort of
(04:28):
felt what happened there.
Who were the good guys, whowere the bad guys, why did what
made them good?
Uh and and if we can do thatand ideally raise some awareness
about some key issues, uh maybechange some hearts and minds of
parties that didn't uh wouldn'thave all all you know, wouldn't
have known those thingsotherwise.
I think that's a verysuccessful production.
Um so that so that's a longintro to your very uh uh simple
(04:50):
question, which is how do youfinance this stuff?
You know, like uh what do wedo?
Uh how how do we how do we makehow do we make it ideally
easier for the filmmaker or theproducer to raise that capital?
Kayvan Mashayekh (05:02):
Uh because well, what I'm hearing from you
right now is the fact that storymatters.
Number one, the story has to beuh something that resonates
within the confines of your theparameters where you can access
those charitable funds.
It just can't be some kind ofyou know uh thing that's thrown
out there and say, hey, give methe money.
So uh I think uh that's veryclear from the way you described
(05:24):
it in the examples you stated.
Uh and those are those arefantastic films.
The reason being uh the thestory and the messaging was was
tied into a lot of those uhsocial impact issues that you're
talking about.
Rick Davis (05:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
I I I think there has to bethat bright line between the the
the story that's told and theparty who is providing the
charitable funds.
And so I think it starts there.
And it could be, hey, uh we'rea diverse set of filmmakers and
you know we're we're not gettingaccess to that kind of capital.
And maybe that's the kind ofthing that a donor or grantor
wants to support in and ofitself, uh, above and beyond the
(06:00):
storyline.
So it can be any number ofthings.
But ultimately, the idea is howdo you uh tap into that kind of
financing?
And and as you noted, umthere's a lot of charitable
money sitting out there to startwith.
Uh I don't think everyone'sfully apprised of the fact that
just within donor-advised fundsalone, there's probably 250 to
(06:20):
300 billion in the United Statesjust sitting there.
Um it's already been allocated,someone's already received
their tax deduction.
It's just waiting for thatdonor who set it aside to decide
how to deploy it.
Um, there's also, you know,some 65,000 private foundations
in this country.
Each of them have a 5%allocation requirement, what's
(06:41):
typically thought of as grantfunding from foundations.
Um and then parties just makead hoc donations.
We're we're we're coming up onthe end of the year.
The end of the year tends to bea time where a lot of just ad
hoc checks get written forcharitable purposes to offset
your year's taxes.
And all of those kinds ofcapital are good sources of
funding for entertainmentproductions.
Kayvan Mashayekh (07:03):
Um, this pertains specifically for um uh
filmmakers in the United Statesor somebody from outside the
United States, can they accessthose too?
So it probably becomes a littlebit more complicated if you're
outside the United States.
But what we're talking about isreally for U.S.
filmmakers, U.S.
based filmmakers.
Rick Davis (07:20):
It, not necessarily.
Uh what I would say is it it itthat's that's not the So LOHAS,
uh we can accept donations andgrants from anywhere in the
world, and we can deployinvestment in productions
anywhere in the world.
We do, however, use U.S.
charitable vehicles to receivethose funds, and so it tends to
be parties that are comp umsupporting are using uh you know
(07:45):
ha are in the US or haveoperations in the US, so they
have some U.S.
tax offset appetite.
Um so it's not the recipient ofthe funds that typically is in
the U.S.
uh they can be anywhere, and wedeploy funds internationally
weekly.
But uh it is important that theparties you're from whom you're
seeking the funding probably,if we're working with them,
(08:06):
probably are in the U.S.
And one of the great things uhabout the United States tax code
as it relates to philanthropyis we have a very progressive
mindset on that in the UnitedStates that allows uh funds to
be utilized in a variety of uh,I think, very innovative ways.
The donor- advised fund in andof itself is a is a great
innovation that allows partiesto set aside money and get an
(08:26):
immediate tax deduction anddecide later whether it's what
I'm seeing, it's it's veryinteresting.
Kayvan Mashayekh (08:30):
So what I'm hearing from you is that there
could be a whole slew of newproducers out there that could
go out and just specificallyspecialize fundraising through
these charitable means and justfocus on that.
I mean, if you're telling methat donor-advised funds are or
have a what an allocation of 250to 350 billion just sit in
there, I mean there should beproducers who are just focused
(08:50):
on finding out what thosedonor-advised funds are and how
to access them through companieslike yourself.
Rick Davis (08:57):
So the check like that.
Absolutely, and and weencourage parties to, you know,
who are raising money to makesure they're asking about that.
One of the things about DAFs inparticular, and that's the
common acronym for donor-advisedfunds, is that by law they're
anonymous.
Uh, and and what I mean by thatis you you don't know who has
one and how much money they havein it.
(09:19):
Uh, so there's no database youcan go to to look it up.
It literally requires directdialogue with that donor or
maybe their financial advisor.
Um, and donor- advised fundsare set up by individuals and
sometimes families.
Uh, and so if you're seekingmoney from a you're raising
money and go back to ourhypothetical $2 million
production budget, um, andyou're talking to someone who
(09:40):
you think might align with thatin some capacity, uh, you should
be not as an intro, but afteryou've told them about the movie
and hey, you'd love your theirsupport in it.
If they're leaning in, say,hey, do you have a donor-
advised fund?
Um, or do you have by chance afamily foundation?
Or were you planning on makingan end-of-year contribution?
All of that money could be usedto invest in my production.
(10:02):
Um, and notably, if if you ifyou're interested in doing so,
it can be structured such thatwhen my $2 million turns into a
very successful production andand makes a nice return, maybe
get some nominations and thingsof that nature, um, that the
money invested, those charitablefunds invested in my
production, can go back to thatparty's charitable pocket.
(10:24):
Uh, meaning they can investtheir donor-advised funds in
that production and have thefinancial returns ff returned to
it, or they can invest theirfoundation's grant funds in that
production and have the returnsflow back to the foundation.
Kayvan Mashayekh (10:36):
But that's after they've gotten their, if
they've gotten their tax credit,I guess any income that comes
back into it would be taxablethen.
Rick Davis (10:42):
No, no, no.
No, it's not because it's it'scoming back to their charitable
pocket.
So no.
Now, if it's coming back to afoundation, that foundation may
have more money that it needs togive out the next year in its
grant pool.
I refer to that as a goodproblem to have.
Oh, we have to, dang it, wehave to do more good uh next
year than we were planning on.
Right.
Um, but the the the importantpoint is that if you're not
(11:04):
asking when you're raisingmoney, you're literally leaving
money on the table becausecharitable money is a very
common thing for parties withmoney.
Let's be clear.
We don't go to investorsbecause they're poor.
We go to investors because webelieve them to have money that
might be able to be put in ourproduction.
Uh while while they wereearning that wealth, it's very
possible, very likely in fact,that over the course of time
(11:26):
they have set money aside tooffset those taxes as they make
money.
Kayvan Mashayekh (11:29):
But let's also let's make something clear.
I mean, your your yourorganization, LOHAS, isn't
something where you guys arereceiving scripts and reading
scripts and doing stuff likethat.
So I want to be very clear.
No, that's great.
Rick Davis (11:40):
I really appreciate your idea because we're not.
Kayvan Mashayekh (11:41):
I mean, because I mean I know that after
this podcast, people can say,oh, LOHAS, let me look them up.
You know what I mean?
Austin, Texas.
Rick Davis (11:49):
ell, uh, hey, and our partners are New York,
Texas, and California based.
Just me and Austin.
They're everywhere.
But uh we are not investors,first and foremost.
Um, and that's it comes as adisappointment to a lot of
folks.
They think, oh, well, you know,they're you're sitting on X
amount of charitable money forinvestment.
Uh, and on some level we are,uh, but that bel that is at the
(12:09):
direction of the donors.
We manage a donor- advisedfund, for example.
Um, and it's it's exclusivelyfocused on impact investing.
So we have a variety of donorsthat that have money that is
that that we help support in thein in that manner, but we're
not placement agents, we're notmatching deals to donors.
That's not what we do.
We're we're at our core, we'rea philanthropic intermediary
(12:30):
focused on impact investing.
Right.
So we we enable the flow ofcharitable money into impactful
ventures like the productionsthat we're talking about, but
it's incumbent on the partiesraising the money to find those
donors and grantors that want tosupport their production.
And then we will enable that to
Kayvan Mashayekh (12:47):
And also when they go to your website, they
see a whole panoply, uh a tilework of different foundations
and and donor-advised funds thatthey can they can look into to
see, hey, uh maybe this is theorganization I need to be
talking to.
Well sub the subject.
Rick Davis (13:00):
Yeah, I mean, that's they probably see, well, for
one, they see Producers WithoutBorders, right?
Kayvan Mashayekh (13:05):
They see Well, they see Producers
International Foundation,they're not gonna be able to do
that.
And they see ProducersInternational Foundation.
Rick Davis (13:09):
Right.
And and maybe that that that'sworth uh explaining.
So one of the things that we dois, you know, what typically
gets termed fiscal sponsorprograms in the entertainment
space, uh, we do that a littlebit differently in that we're
really creating these charitableprograms to support the
impactful missions of a varietyof organizations.
I I think it's well over ahundred now.
(13:30):
Um and many of them are in theentertainment space.
Produce Without Borders beingone of them.
As you noted, we manage, as youknow, at the front, we manage
Produce InternationalFoundation, which is the
nonprofit pathway to support thegreat work that PWB does.
Um and we do that for a lot ofparties in the entertainment
space that slate funds uh in thesocial impact entertainment
(13:53):
space, uh, you know, uhindividual productions, holding
companies that do a lot ofthings in the entertainment
space where we are thatnonprofit gateway for parties to
be able to use charitable moneyto ultimately invest in the
those those productions uh andand their various activities.
Kayvan Mashayekh (14:11):
So uh it just takes me back to our talk a
couple of years ago during theCannes Film Festival where we're
at the American Pavilion, youand I, and uh you had mentioned
something that was uh absolutelystunning.
I believe if correct me,because I know it's it's I'm I'm
uh my my memory may be a littlebit foggy and my stats may be a
little bit off, but I'm sure intoday's world everything can be
(14:32):
checked and double checked veryquickly.
So I believe there was astatement you made that within
the next 10 years, there's gonnabe what 20 trillion dollars of
wealth transfer from onegeneration to another.
Rick Davis (14:44):
Yeah, it's more than that.
But it's more than that now.
But but nonetheless, it let'sjust say it's a big number.
Um and the relevance of thisgenerational wealth transfer to
the conversation we're having,uh, and this isn't uh a knock on
old white guys because I amone, but there is less uh focus
(15:05):
in older generations towardssocial and environmental impact
than there are in youngergenerations.
And and and that data isoverwhelmingly clear.
Uh and so as money changeshands and and more accurately
the control over funds changeshands, the expectation, we're
already seeing this, is thatthere will be more and more
(15:26):
focus on not just making a buck,but making a buck while ideally
making the world a little bitbetter place.
Um and what what you care aboutand what I care about and what
others care, it could all bedifferent, um, and that's fine.
Um, but beginning to think of,hey, uh maybe that's the kind of
message I'd like to see onscreen, or the kind of company
(15:47):
that I would like to support, orthe kind of thing where I
believe it could be financiallysuccessful, but also uh ideally,
like I said, make, you know,have a have a people or planet
uh filter to some extent.
And so we we fully expect, andwe're already starting to see
it, more and more parties wantto use funds in that way.
And charitable money is reallyjust the other pocket of
(16:09):
funding.
Kayvan Mashayekh (16:10):
You're basically saying you're gonna be
supercharging and turbochargingthis creator economy that's uh
that's out there that's uhputting content out directly, uh
DTC directly to their consumersthrough or or viewers or
however you want to call it, uhthrough the you know, the
available channels that are youknow a lot of young people go
to, which is YouTube and andTikTok and and so on and so
forth.
Rick Davis (16:30):
I think we're gonna see a huge proliferation of of
that.
And and from our world, I meanour focus, we're exclusively
focused on enabling the flow ofcharitable money to invest in
those kinds of things.
Uh you know, we we fully expectto be supporting that for for
many years to come.
Kayvan Mashayekh (16:47):
And uh and I think you know this brings up
another subject because uh youevery time you you you so
eloquently uh lay this out foreveryone, uh the issue of IP and
you know, and and how this canalso shape future IP.
If you're doing social impactuh storytelling and uh the it
becomes something that goesviral, then you want to be able
(17:09):
to own that IP.
And if you're an individualfilmmaker, you want to be able
to have control of it, not havesomebody else who's distributing
it say, okay, I'm gonna buy itout from you, and then I'm gonna
control it and I'm gonnamassage it the way I want.
So I think my encouragement forfuture filmmakers is to really
focus on that, you know, tofocus on the fact that, okay, go
after charitable foundationsand donor- advised funds and all
(17:30):
the things that you're talkingabout by by finding out who
those people are and if they dohave them, and if if so, can
they support your storytellingvision that has a social impact?
But remember that, you know,hold on to that because that's
that's what that's how you buildyour brand.
I mean, uh that's how we wereable to build our brand with
Producers Without Borders over anumber of years.
(17:51):
But you know, we're just anetwork of doers and not
talkers, givers and not takers,and that that really puts
together this uh uh thispanoply, uh, this quilt of
different ethnicities that arethat are producers from all over
the world that that createthese opportunities.
So I'm grateful that uh umyou're able to give us that kind
of insight.
I want to know uh what otherwhat are the three things you
(18:14):
recommend to filmmakers today,uh the step by step um that that
would help them enable them tounderstand what you're saying a
lot easier and better.
Because I think the way you youspeak is just so powerful and
so straightforward, butsometimes it could overwhelm
people, it could it it couldmake them feel timid.
(18:36):
Like I need to actually golearn have take a course to
understand what Rick is sayingbecause uh I mean I get it
because we're both lawyers orwhatever, but you know, I can is
is there any like a 101 levelway of trying to do that?
Rick Davis (18:49):
Yeah, no, it's a great it's a really great point,
and and I'll tell you why it'sa particular challenge is not
only in in the vein of what yousaid, is it the parties raising
money are you know ill-informedwith regard to how to ask for,
think about, incorporate thatkind of funding.
(19:09):
But overwhelmingly, the partieswith charitable money have no
idea any of this is possible.
So that's worth pausing on fora second.
That means of those half atrillion dollars sitting in
charitable pockets, 99% of thoseparties have no idea that that
charitable money can be used toinvest in your hypothetical
social impact entertainmentproduction.
(19:31):
So you're you're already upagainst it from a fundraising
perspective, because uh, youknow, you're you're you can't be
sitting there expecting thatfunder to lean over and go, hey,
can I use my DAF to invest inthis?
Because most of them don't knowthey can do that.
Um, so it's incumbent upon you,first and foremost, the
fundraiser, uh, you know, toeducate yourself a little bit in
(19:52):
the vein of what we're talkingabout, and then ultimately
educate your funder.
I I refer to it as a two-waystreet of ignorance.
You don't know who has a DAF,and they don't know that they
can use that money they have toinvest in your production.
And so the solution to that isfor the fundraiser to take the
initiative and say, hey, I justtold you my production, by the
way, do you have a donor-advised fund?
(20:12):
And did you know you could beinvesting that in in my work?
Um and that's that's first andforemost where it starts.
Like if you're not educatingthe foundation that their grant
funds can be utilized to investin your movie or the party with
the donor- advised fund, thatthey can take that money and
invest, uh honestly, it's shameon you at this point.
Kayvan Mashayekh (20:30):
Well, uh, but let me uh uh expand on that a
little bit.
A lot of times they'll if youask that question, so well, we
need to talk to our lawyers, andthe the lawyers don't even
know.
Rick Davis (20:38):
Sometimes Oh no, they definitely don't.
And the financial advisordoesn't, and the CPA doesn't.
Kayvan Mashayekh (20:42):
And that's just it.
Rick Davis (20:43):
So that that is a role that LOHAS can play.
Right.
So while we're not an investorourselves, um, we are investing
other parties' money.
But uh what we do uh is wesupport our clients' fundraising
activities, and that's how wedo it, not by identifying a
donor and grantor, but ratherbeing free to talk with
meaningful, with donors andgrantors that have meaningful
(21:05):
charitable money that aresincerely interested in
supporting whatever thatinitiative is, but who have
questions.
And by the way, it's verycommon for parties to have very
reasonable.
If you've run a foundation fora hundred years and given out
grant money every single year,and someone knocks on your door
and says, Did you know insteadof just giving money away, you
could take that same grant moneyand invest it in Kayvan's, you
(21:26):
know, uh social impactentertainment production.
And when it's reallysuccessful, have that money come
back to your foundation.
I will tell you that meltstheir mind a little bit because
they're like, What are youtalking about?
We've never done that.
That can't be right.
Our lawyer says that's notright.
You can't do that.
And what we always encourageis, you know what, let us talk
to them.
Um, because once theyunderstand a little bit, then
you know what we what we know,because we've now done this for
(21:48):
a number of years, is oncethey've done it, they're like,
oh, okay, well, now we want todo that again.
It's a magical grant, suddenly.
It's the grant that gives back.
Kayvan Mashayekh (21:56):
What I'm hearing is that what you're
talking about is just bear withme.
It's like it's a marketing andbranding issue for on your side,
because uh bear with me,because the it the anytime
somebody it gets to this parttime of the year, which is uh
late October, November,December, that that the Q4 is
what I call it, they startscrambling for that for that tax
(22:17):
deduction.
They want they want thatcertificate, that 501(c)(3)
certificate that I'm able to usethis.
So they they think about thethe big boys on the block.
You know, the Red Crosses, theAmerican Cancer Society
Rick Davis (22:29):
It's the house of worship, it's the university,
and it's the hospital.
Kayvan Mashayekh (22:32):
Because those are easy.
They don't have to think aboutit.
That that brand is out there,they know it's legit, it's
whatever it is, they don't lookat the administrative costs of
some of these, some of these,some, some of these 501(c)(3)s,
but because it's a brand, theyhave that brand and and it's
easy for them to understand.
Yep.
But whenever you're talkingabout Joe Schmo's foundation, is
and and it's a 501(c)(3).
(22:53):
Well, wait a minute, I can youyou give my money to to them and
they can invest it in a socialimpact.
Yeah, they they don't knowthat.
So that's it.
So that becomes a marketing inmy in my world, what because
what you're talking about isit's what it's let let let us
talk, let us talk to thembecause what we're doing is 100%
legitimate, but we don't havethat kind of name recognition of
(23:14):
those big charitableorganizations, and that's where
the disconnect is.
And I think
Rick Davis (23:19):
It's an education challenge.
You can call it a marketingchallenge, it's an education
challenge.
They're intermixed because howdo you get the how do you get
the message out there?
And the path we've chosen is towork with parties raising
capital for social impactventures, um, including the
entertainment space, to say youshould know these things.
So you become, if you will, oureducational channel to the
(23:43):
world of funders to let themknow that, hey, those funds you
have and then your donor-advised, and you that money you
have at Fidelity Charitable orVanguard or your community
foundation, that same money canbe reallocated to invest in that
very cool movie or televisionshow or play or cool company
that's really trying to make theworld a better place.
Kayvan Mashayekh (24:03):
So I think the way to do that is to go after
the younger generation and letthem educate them and know so
that they know who to what kindof questions to ask.
Uh so tell us about what LOHAS,what kind of like um
educational programs LOHAS hasto let people know about this.
Rick Davis (24:20):
Well, you know, uh we we tend to sit down on
podcasts with old friends fromRice University.
And ideally, no, I mean we wedo the best we can.
Um our partners at you know arein New York, Texas, California.
We we're very active in theinvestment community and the
impact investment community,trying to share this message and
just make sure people areaware.
(24:42):
Uh it you know, always feelsglacial to me, but but we've
grown considerably and we help alot of people.
So hopefully that that trendline will will continue.
Uh but that but it is that thatis our underlying challenge is
that uh you know you justparties don't know that that
this is a pathway to usecharitable funds.
And you know, we talk aboutrethinking uh how you use your
(25:04):
charitable dollars and that youcould be a more active
participant in the impact worldwith it.
And and and I'll take a stepback on that.
I I actually think,particularly as it relates to
donor- advised funds, it'simperative because right now, of
that 250 billion plus, almostall that money is sitting in the
public markets.
Um it's it's sitting insomebody's donor- advised fund
(25:27):
account while they wait todecide what they're going to do
with it.
And meanwhile, that money isyou know invested in fossil
fuels companies and weaponsmanufacturers and things of that
nature.
So charitable money, money thatwas set aside for a charitable,
impactful purpose, is insteadbeing invested in a variety of
things that probably don't alignwith most donors' visions and
missions and things of thatnature.
Kayvan Mashayekh (25:48):
Why?
Because it has to be invested.
It can't just sit and cash.
Rick Davis (25:50):
All money is invested, right?
No, no, you know, with theexception of the the the
eccentric that's digging a holein their backyard, everyone's
putting that money somewhere.
And and those parties,Fidelity, is investing it in its
own mutual funds and ETFs, uh,with the idea that, hey, we'll
grow it for you, and thensomeday in the future you can
donate it out, which is which isokay.
I would argue, however,remember if I'm a donor and I
(26:13):
have money in a donor- advisedfund, no matter how well or how
poorly that investment of fundsdoes, I'm never seeing it again.
It's gone.
It's not my money anymore.
I've set it aside, I've gottenmy tax deduction.
I would argue that is theoptimal money, you know, sort of
monopoly money for you, butvery real to the recipient that
you can go and be an impactinvestor with.
Um, and in fact, going back toyour original question on the
(26:34):
three things, um, one of thethings I would say, uh harking
back to your hypothetical $2million production, is where is
that production?
Like, is this your, hey, I gota great idea?
Um, and we're gonna make amovie and it's about this, but
I'm at the developmental stage.
I think at the developmentalstage, if you're not using
charitable money, you're you'rebeing unnecessarily bold with
(26:57):
your investment portfolio.
What I would say is, hey, we'rewe're at that developmental
stage.
We'd love the first, whateverit is, half million in that in
that budget to help us get ascript, get, you know, uh talent
assigned, get a director, youknow, maybe get a distribution
deal, whatever it is.
And then that next million thatwe're raising, maybe that is
(27:17):
investment.
Maybe at that point, maybe thatbecomes a better investment.
And if I'm in the movie financeworld or I'd like to get in it,
that's the time that I mightstep in and write a check.
Like, I think you can be bothdon the investor of donated or
granted funds and the futureinvestor in the same deal.
Like you've you've seeded thedeal, you've catalyzed the
(27:40):
project to get it to aproduction equity stage where
now you're like, oh, you may yougot so-and-so associated with
it, you got this amazing scriptnow.
Yeah, now I want to step in andI want to write a check out of
my investment portfolio.
And by the way, maybe I've donethat a half dozen or a dozen
times, and only some of them getto that stage.
So I'm placing bets ondifferent things using my
(28:00):
charitable money.
Remember, no matter how well orhow poorly it does, it has no
real impact on me financially.
Um, but some of those are goingto, you know, are going to get
into that production stage.
And and those are the onesmaybe now that I really do get
behind uh with with myinvestment portfolio.
Kayvan Mashayekh (28:18):
Okay.
That was very well stated.
I think that uh one of theother things that a lot of
filmmakers in in America thatare seeking capital, I mean, um
they always go the 181 route,which you know, um, and that's
something that um their advisorstell them to go because that's
an available tool.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's another thing.
So for for many, manyfilmmakers in the United States,
(28:40):
they go to 181 route or they gothe if they if they're seeking
charitable funds, they go thenow which you're telling me
donor- advised funds orcharitable foundations.
First thing they need to do,contact LOHAS, ask them the
questions that uh ask the thefoundations the questions.
Do you have charitable fundsthat then do you know that you
can invest in in films withthat?
(29:01):
And and to and to talk toLOHAS.
Rick Davis (29:04):
And if you want a reminder on the questions you
should be asking, you canabsolutely go to our website,
LOHAS.org.
There's a thought leadershipsection, there's brochures and
blah, blah, blah, that havethose sort of questions that
that you should be asking.
The the time you you reach outto LOHAS is when you have a
donor or grantor that's ready todo that or that is leaning in
(29:24):
and has maybe the questions,like we were talking earlier.
And we're happy to answer anydonor or grantor questions about
how they can participate withtheir capital in that way.
Kayvan Mashayekh (29:32):
And also to communicate with their
professionals, their accountantsand lawyers.
Rick Davis (29:35):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I mean, this is something thatis poorly understood by the
financial advisory world.
It, you know, and and it's ashame because I will say that a
lot of those financial advisorshave clients that are talking to
them about impact investing andmaybe aren't well versed on it,
and maybe you're uncomfortablethinking about, hey, I'm going
to send my clients' investmentportfolio funds into a deal.
(29:57):
But this is a way for them totake money they've, you know,
that they They've set aside, inessence, with their client and
allowed that to be the at leastthe initial pool of impact
investment capital.
And I think that's going tobecome increasingly important
for the wealth transfer, thegenerational wealth transfer
aspect that you've mentioned.
Kayvan Mashayekh (30:13):
Alright, so let's uh as we wrap this up, um
what what's the final thing thatyou want uh people to get from
this discussion, which isgoing to be very impactful, I
believe.
I hate to use that word overand over again because it's just
like it it's it's becoming uh alittle bit too much where
everybody just uses the sameword.
(30:33):
But I think the word I like touse is purposeful.
Yeah.
Um, you know, what's thepurpose of all this?
What's the why are we doing allthis?
And and I'd like for you toelaborate a little bit about
that before we wrap up.
What's the purpose of all this?
And that that purpose is reallyto um uh to create
opportunities at whereopportunities would never have
existed before.
Rick Davis (30:55):
That's absolutely the case.
Uh I I am uh so happy every dayto see the volume of filmmakers
and company leaders and fundmanagers uh that we work with
that are out really taking greatstories, uh trying to do great
things, and and that is uh youknow is it makes all of our work
(31:17):
at LOHAS uh that much moremeaningful uh in in that regard.
Uh I I I think it's it's apurposeful pathway in that
respect.
Um the the one thing I think Iwould leave uh your audience
with is just a a reminder to askthe questions when you're
(31:39):
raising money.
Uh it is is so important to notsit down with someone and only
ask about the money they have inone pocket and not ask about
the money they have in theother.
Um if you're not asking, youshould not be expecting to raise
that money.
Uh and and you know, I thinkwhat you will find is there are
a lot of people out there thatwould love to support your
(31:59):
production if they only knewthey could do so with money that
they had set aside anyway, thatthey weren't planning on making
any money.
I mean, earn your producers'credit, get invited to the
premiere, uh get to brag at thecocktail party um about this.
That's a heck of a lot morefun.
Kayvan Mashayekh (32:13):
Get invited to Producers Without Borders.
Rick Davis (32:15):
Get invited to Producers Without Borders, very
cool events globally.
Um exactly.
Uh you know,
Kayvan Mashayekh (32:20):
Shameless self-plug, but it's okay.
Rick Davis (32:22):
With charitable money that you had set aside
anyway.
Uh I think there's a lot morefun things parties can do than
what they're currently doing,which is either sitting on it or
going those more commonpathways at the end of the year
that you were talking about.
Kayvan Mashayekh (32:34):
Yeah, so uh thank you for that, Rick.
It's been a great pleasure tospeak with you.
And uh, as we're coming to theconclusion of this uh podcast,
uh uh the last one we did wasalso Texas-based.
And so I'm I'm I'm trying to doas many uh of these uh in my
home state because it'simportant to get the messaging
out about how great this stateis, because there's so many
(32:54):
people like yourselves and likeAlfred and like Charles that uh
come that always want us to todo the best we can to get
information out for thecommunity so that they have
access to to things that theydon't they would otherwise
otherwise not have.
Uh and in conclusion, uh we'regonna wrap it up in London uh in
a a uh in December uh with atalk about uh human intelligence
(33:18):
versus artificial intelligenceat the Focus uh London
Conference with Dr.
Edward Frankel and myself.
And we look forward to seeingyou there or at a future
podcast.
Thank you so much, Rick Davis.
Rick Davis (33:31):
Thank you for having me.
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