November 20, 2024 • 55 mins
Introducing Caleb Jenkins, the 2024 Insightful Accountants Pro Advisor of the Year.
We Caleb's journey in accounting, his early influences, and the importance of community service. Caleb shares insights on wealth management, values-based investing, and the significance of having a vision and direction in one's career. The conversation highlights the impact of family support, personal growth, and the drive to make a difference in the community. In this conversation, Caleb Jenkins discusses the importance of trust in community programs, the complexities of different types of poverty, and how these insights have revolutionized his approach to business. He emphasizes the shift from compliance to advisory work in accounting, the significance of community engagement, and the balance between leadership and following. Caleb also shares practical advice for aspiring accountants and personal insights into his life and values.
Takeaways
- Caleb Jenkins emphasizes the importance of community service and giving back.
- He started his accounting journey at a young age, influenced by his father's firm.
- Caleb's passion for accounting was nurtured through hands-on experiences.
- He believes in the power of leadership over following.
- Education and self-directed learning played a crucial role in his career.
- Caleb chose to pursue an Enrolled Agent designation instead of a CPA.
- He is passionate about values-based investing and wealth management.
- Caleb's outreach work in Haiti has significantly impacted his perspective.
- He encourages others to take accountability for their career paths.
- Caleb's success is attributed to hard work, determination, and a clear vision. Trust is essential for community programs to succeed.
- Understanding the difference between crisis and chronic poverty is crucial.
- Chronic poverty requires a deeper analysis of root causes.
- Business practices should focus on solving underlying issues, not just surface symptoms. - Advisory work in accounting is about addressing root problems.
- Daily routines can impact work-life balance and productivity.
- Community engagement provides inspiration and growth opportunities.
- Effective leadership involves having a clear vision and inspiring others.
- Aspiring accountants should seek certification and community involvement.
- Personal experiences shape our professional journeys and values.
Sound Bites
"I loved the eight hours of shredding."
"I started tracking my own books on QuickBooks."
"The aspect of being a leader rather than a follower."
"Advisory work is about solving root problems."
"Community inspires me and seeing others grow."
"Vision is the intersection of your higher principle."
"Get certified as a QuickBooks Pro Advisor."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Protea Conversations
01:18 Caleb Jenkins: A Journey in Accounting
03:50 Early Influences and Family Background
10:03 The Path to Accounting: Passion and Opportunity
22:40 The Importance of Vision and Direction
27:48 Outreach Work and Community Impact
28:51 The Importance of Trust in Community Programs
30:09 Understanding Different Types of Poverty
35:41 Revolutionizing Business Practices
37:40 The Shift from Compliance to Advisory
42:31 The Value of Community Engagement
46:16 Leadership: Balancing Vision and Following
49:20 Advice for Aspiring Accountants
51:50 Personal Insights and Fun Facts
Connect with Caleb: LinkedIn personal - https://www.linkedin.com/in/calebjenkins1994/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Pretty Conversations, the podcast where leadership in business and accounting
(00:09):
isn't just discussed, it's explored.
I'm your host, Saint Stevens, and thank you for joining me as we delve into the mind to
some of the most influential leaders in the industry.
A journey is one of discovery from unraveling the unique stories that shape our guest's
careers to invaluable advice that fueled their success.
We had to provide you with simple, actionable advice to accelerate your career and personal
growth.
(00:29):
Whether you're a budding professional or a seasoned executive, these conversations are
designed to offer insights and perspectives that resonate with everyone.
So tune in, engage, and be inspired as we build better leaders together.
Welcome to Pretty Conversations.
Today we're thrilled to have Caleb Jenkins, the 2024 Encyclical Accountants Pro-Advisor
of the Year, and a consistent figure in the top 40 under 40 in the accounting profession,
(00:53):
being highlighted there since 2016, every year since.
Caleb has revolutionized the business financial management by emphasizing tax reduction, accounting
automation, and strategic clarity.
His commitment extends beyond his business achievements, actively contributing to various
advisory boards, and applying these expertise to assist nonprofits in developing countries.
(01:13):
Join us as we delve into Caleb's impactful journey and explore the innovative approach
that accounting in finance.
Caleb, welcome to the show.
Hey, it's great to be here with you, Zane.
Yeah, it is such an honor to have you, and we're going to talk a lot about your accounting
career because, one, I think it started when you were like three years old, which is pretty
(01:34):
interesting to take on.
But what is more exciting for me is everything that you do outside of the accounting world
and all the inspirational work that you do, do that makes such a big difference in so
many people's lives.
And I got to you speak at Scaling New Heights this year, and you sort of spoke about making
that difference to the people around you, which I found incredibly inspiring.
(01:56):
And the best session I attended at Scaling New Heights, and not even from any other point
that it just made me feel really good.
And at the time, made me feel a little bit guilty that I maybe need to do more in my
community.
Well, that's a, it wasn't intended to make somebody feel guilty, but rather to inspire
people to greatness.
And so it was mostly just sharing a little bit of my journey, and it's a passion topic
(02:22):
of mine.
So whenever I have the opportunity to talk about it and inspire somebody else, that's
what I love to do.
I mean, it was good guilt as well, right?
Like there's guilt where it's like, oh man, that's guys making me feel bad and more of
that.
I try and do as much as I can for my community, but there is more that I can give.
And you know, sometimes maybe I just sort of have to put off, I can work one hour less
(02:43):
and give one hour back more.
And I think that's a good, you know, that's a good walk away from a session.
So I want to jump into your accounting career, but first, you know, I want to list off like
for you people that don't know Caleb, this guy's incredible.
I mean, I'm just going to roll off some of these, you know, different accomplishments
enrolled agent 2024 Prodvisor the year 2016 to 2024 top 100 QuickBooks Provisors 2016
(03:07):
to 2024 top 40 under 40 2016 top up and camera Prodvisor 2016, Philip and Thonk trick.
Excellent award winner.
Like it just end like it's a never ending list of awards and it's really impressive.
And mostly because the point is, you know, if you meet Caleb, there's not like he's shoving
it down your throat.
(03:27):
He's just a very humble person that is always looking to make good connections, take some
time to talk to people and really make a difference around it.
But how did you get into this world of accounting?
How did you decide that this is what I wanted?
So I got started when my, I mean, I like you kind of led it.
(03:48):
It's maybe a little bit not totally factual.
I started, I didn't start at three years old, but but not it wasn't too far off in the
sense that my dad had an accounting firm.
So I the first 10 years of my life, the my dad's office was two separate buildings.
There was the front office in the back office, but at our home location.
(04:11):
So and I was homeschooled growing up.
And so when I was finished with school for the day, I would go out a lot of time, not
every day, but a lot of times I'd find my way back out into the office.
And there was always stuff to do, maybe, maybe just annoying to the other employees.
But, but I mean, things such as shredding and client filing and different other things.
(04:33):
So I enjoyed all those components of, of interacting with the team, getting involved with it.
For a couple of years, I actually thought about, I don't know, you might call fantasy
of being a medical doctor or whatever, but that quickly faded.
And it kind of just came back to my home ruts of how I was raised, whatever, and an opportunity
(04:59):
was to get started full time.
Again, I'd kind of done off and on periodically from an early age, but officially started
in 2008 and went from there forward.
So it's been a fun journey ever since.
(05:20):
That's so interesting because, you know, if I asked my kids who are seven and eight at
the moment, what do I do?
They sort of know I'm an accountant, but for them, it'll be like, oh, you work with wine,
which, you know, it's not not factually true, but it's close enough.
They've got no idea what I'm doing.
Like they're seeing me in front of a laptop.
They don't really ask too many questions.
But I guess back then a lot more, there were paper files, which, yeah, I'm old enough to
(05:44):
have worked on paper files and know what that's all about.
And, you know, I did the vacation work when I was in college and four hours of shredding
paper was a different pastime.
But intriguing that you sort of got involved in that, you know, your dad sort of let you
get involved.
I'm sure the team members were very happy to have you doing that junkie work that they
(06:04):
probably didn't want to do.
So annoying at times, but very thankful at other times, I'm sure.
But I mean, did your dad encourage it or was it just sort of out of your own like this
or like that's where you wanted to be at times?
It's funny on one of your comments there is I loved that junk work earlier on.
Like it was, it was so much fun.
(06:24):
Like looking back, it was so stupid, but like I loved the eight hours of shredding.
Like, sweet.
There's, there's, there's a mountain of work that I got to get done and let's see how fast
I can get it done or then it transitioned from there into QuickBooks desktop of entering
a thousand transactions from your, from your credit card statement.
(06:45):
It was just a, it was a race to see how fast I could get them entered and etc.
I loved that type of work early on.
But to your question of did my dad encourage it, I'm sure behind this curtain he did, but
not, not, not something where he pushed for it outwardly.
(07:07):
It was more so like I enjoyed it.
He recognized that and he, I mean, I, I probably was more pushing on my end to, hey, like,
is there something more that can be done?
And then finally, I mean, after I had been doing it kind of more officially or internal
HR lady, she's like, hey, we probably need to get Caleb on payroll.
(07:30):
And so it's like, I wasn't going to turn that down.
So that became my official start time.
And from that point forward, it did turn into more full time work.
Yeah, that was going to be my next question.
When did you officially get on the payroll?
What age were you?
So probably too young, but it, I mean, it was my dad's firm.
Yeah.
I was 14.
Oh, wow.
(07:50):
I mean, that's youngish, but not that young.
I mean, there's forms that you can follow to sort of, you know, work your way around
that, that we had that the proprietors, the parent, but I'm sure there's workarounds around
all of that.
And I wasn't, I wasn't done anything.
I mean, I, at the time I wasn't done any overtime or anything that would have been problematic
(08:10):
in that sense.
So, yeah, I mean, it still blows my mind.
I mean, I just think back on like when I was that age and the jobs that I was doing, I
mean, I was fitting tires.
I was working backstage at that constant and stuff and putting stuff together.
I would have never even thought about accounting.
I mean, I did it as a subject in high school, but I didn't really know what it meant at
that point in time.
I mean, I probably got like two years through my college qualification still didn't really
(08:34):
know what I was signing up for.
So it's fairly unique.
Even, you know, even with people who have parents that are accountants for their children
to actually understand what they're doing and what the job involves.
And I think mostly, you know, because as a parent myself, I'm like, oh, I wouldn't be
upset if my kids are accountants, but go be whatever you want to be, right?
Like, don't just be an accountant.
(08:55):
I know it's a great job and not a stable job.
There's a lot of opportunities that come from it, but dream big.
Go be whatever you want.
So it is interesting that you got so involved, but I love that you were the person who wanted
to do it, which is really exciting for me.
Yeah.
And I could say to the point it did my dad push for it.
The answer was absolutely no, because all my siblings, none of them wanted to do it.
(09:16):
None of them were, I mean, maybe, maybe a little bit to my sisters that were like needed during
taxis in a couple of years, and they might not have chosen to officially, but like it
was, it was temporary work and what outside of that.
Like none of my, none of my other siblings, I have a fairly large family.
(09:38):
There's seven, I have seven siblings.
And so, but yeah, they like all four of my brother or three of my brothers, there's four
of us guys.
None of them have ever, ever worked in the office, never had any desire to work in the
office.
All three of them primarily ended up on the farm, which is part of my background too.
(10:00):
But yeah, that's a, that would be, I could say honestly, like none of us were pressured
to join and work inside this.
The other point was how did I really get interested in it?
And I would say a lot of that was more passive in the sense that I loved computers growing
(10:22):
up as kids.
My brothers mostly enjoyed being outside playing in the orchard or playing in the yard or whatever,
but I, I enjoyed playing on the computer.
So I made countless business cards via French shop program with Microsoft, whatever, just
like I dreams and did, did whatever there.
(10:44):
I would play on my Microsoft Flight simulator and love the, the flight programs, whatever
they're, I don't know, maybe some other games too.
But like early on into my mom had QuickBooks on our home computer in our house and she
would struggle with the dumb bank reconciliation.
(11:06):
She had a couple of like very micro side business things that she was involved in and my dad
had that on our home computer.
And so because I loved the computer, she would occasionally ask her for me to help her out
with something on it when she couldn't figure it out.
So I kind of just naturally learned QuickBooks through my mom, not, not even so much to my
(11:27):
dad.
And it was soon after that that I started baking cookies for my dad during tax season.
And he's like, Hey, for me to pay you, I need an invoice.
And so I started tracking my own books on QuickBooks.
And I'm like, Hey, I don't want to mix my personal business together.
But I watched some, some help videos and read some help articles and whatever.
(11:51):
And like, so I created a class to keep my, my cookie business separate from my personal
stuff and yeah, that, that away from there.
So I mean, I would say my dad put things in front of me and gave me opportunities.
And that's one of the biggest blessings that I, that I could point back to is that he didn't
hinder my path towards growth on what I was doing.
(12:13):
Well, I mean, what I'm hearing is that one, you have a pretty entrepreneurial family and
dad at the accounting business, your mom at her side, business is going, the farming side
of it all happening.
And what I hear from this is that your parents encouraged you to sort of take accountability
for you.
You are, you know, take opportunities, try to be entrepreneurial yourself.
(12:33):
And hey, that turned you into an accountant.
That's fine.
That's still, you know, it's still, you can still be a business owner and accountant,
but it feels like they set you up with some really great business skills, which more kids
should have, right?
I mean, I think we work with business owners, which I'm sure you wish the same way as I
do that they had more business skills built into them.
(12:53):
Yeah.
One of the things that they, they drove on maybe to a fault early on, but was that the
aspect of being a leader rather than a follower.
And so trying to understand that if you're a follower, you're always going to be subject
to the wins and wishes and desires of everybody else.
But if you're a leader, then, then you can design your own path and others more or less
(13:19):
will fall in line with them.
And people like to follow somebody that has vision, that has direction in their life and
with their direction in their career, with their business and what a lot of people leave
businesses because there's no vision in the business.
There's no direction with where that business is headed.
(13:41):
So, so I definitely credit them for that too.
So you eventually finished high school and then decided to go get your accounting qualifications?
Yeah.
So I, in high school and again, I was homeschooled.
So I had a lot of creativity or flexibility in terms of how I could design one of the
things I loved is I, I would do like a week's worth of math in one morning and then the next
(14:05):
out to weeks worth of grammar and a week's worth of whatever other subjects history and
etc.
And what I loved about that is I could, I could like go really deep on something and
go very far rather than just scatter my attention focus across all these 20 different subjects
or seven different subjects or whatever.
(14:26):
I did that more in high school.
But then the latter two years of high school, I, I did dual credit with both college classes
online and high school stuff at home.
So that piece of it, I got rack up quite a few different business classes and accounting
classes and economic classes and etc.
(14:49):
In that process, actually never, I never finished with a graduate or with a bachelor
degree or anything I pondered that frequently over over time as I've continued in life.
I want to do the reasons why I didn't was one, one of the, or actually three simultaneous
(15:11):
reasons, but one of them was I struggled with some of the non accounting, non business,
non economic classes, a lot of the other general ed.
One of them was a class called analyzing interpreting literature that I took and failed three times
and it was a required class for the degree path of accounting for the school I was going
(15:37):
through and I'm like, or the online college and I'm like, it was this, it was a terrible,
terrible type of a class that finally they said, Hey, you could, you could take an alternative
one instead of this one.
But like, I'm not a bad student.
Yep.
Typically.
But it wasn't something I was interested in today.
(15:57):
I'm probably actually far more interested in the literature than I ever was in.
But I just wanted to take my accounting classes.
I wanted to take my business classes.
I want to take my economic classes.
I thrived in those ones scored very well and all of those types of classes.
It was just the the and like even history.
(16:19):
I love history, but I wasn't focused on history then.
So I failed one or two history classes too.
And so some of that was a little bit of a challenge whenever you fail something.
It's, it doesn't boost your, your spirits very much.
So there's that component, but this, I would say the bigger component was an arm, the middle
(16:42):
component is I was also working pretty much full time at this point too.
And so that made it hard to do college kind of full time and high school or pretty much
finished with high school by this point, but then working full time and college full time
and then social and church and all the other types of stuff full time too.
(17:07):
So that made it difficult.
But probably the biggest reason that I stepped away from it is I, I was going down the degree
path because I was going to go the route of being a CPA, which is what everybody did.
But I stepped away from it for two reasons.
One was at that point, which was, I don't know, probably 12 years ago at this point,
(17:30):
maybe 13.
I don't remember exactly, but I, I'm like, is a CPA really going to continue to be the
lock on the profession that it was at that point?
And the two reasons that I gave that I thought about was technology advancement is the biggest
one.
So as even at that point, like it was maybe very early rumblings, but there was some talk
(17:52):
in the area of artificial intelligence, like you have to listen intricately for it.
But like you, you heard it in very sophisticated talks or whatever, but it was like, Hey, that's
going to revolutionize the work that we do.
And is that going to, is that going to keep the lock on the profession?
And the second piece is I could do everything that I wanted to do without a CPA because
(18:19):
I never wanted to do audit to begin with.
So it's like the EA gave me the tax side, the, and then QuickBooks knowledge gave me,
gave me the product experience.
Plus I would consider that I learned accounting by using QuickBooks backwards.
(18:39):
I didn't learn the, learn the textbook approach first.
I learned the program and the program taught me the, the textbook.
And when I did the textbook stuff, it was a piece of cake because I had already pictured
in my mind everything about accounting from journal entries to balance sheet versus profit
loss, the debits and credits, like even to this day, I still picture my debits and credits
(19:04):
looking at my balance sheet and profit loss by side of my mind.
And I think about it and I think about my assets up here and my liabilities down here
and my income and then my cost to get sold and expenses.
And I have in my mind a, a X come linking the two together and peace cake and as, as
long as you do that, then, then all of it just kind of falls in line.
(19:28):
And I mean, it's far more complex than that, but it's, that's the simple of it.
So,
Well, I mean, the big secret is it isn't much more complicated than that.
But it's always fine that the difference between good accounts about account is being able
to see that picture.
And you know, you're saying it, I'm like, I didn't think about that way, but then I
announced sort of sitting in the background.
I'm like, I probably, I do mine's a little tea accounts, but they're in the same places
(19:52):
and it's sort of the same picture.
So that makes sense.
A couple of things though, you would have loved my qualification.
I have a B calm in accounting for chartered accountants, the three year undergrad program,
no fluff.
My biggest fluff course was statistics one on one, which I probably would have enjoyed
anyway.
So yeah, it was a fun subject.
(20:12):
I enjoyed it.
Not the best lecture, but we, we did well.
So no fluff courses, none of the staff, I just, you know, was just pure, like this is to become
a charter account and become a CPA.
This is all you have to do.
So that made my life easier.
Yeah, well, doing high school and college together, like I can barely comprehend it.
Like I just learned that not so long ago that people can do college credits in high school.
(20:35):
Like that was, I was like, what, what are you guys talking about?
Which I thought was pretty cool.
I don't think that exists back in South Africa, but that you're basically running your whole
college qualification or doing the same is super impressive.
One of the, one of the great parts back then, it's different today at least in California.
I don't know about every state, but is back then at least the, when you did college credit
(20:57):
going to junior college, it was free.
When you were a high school student, I think it's free across the board now, at least for
the tuition piece, but the, it was, that was, that was incredible then because that was
a huge cost savings by being doing it in high school and taking the college class at the
(21:17):
same time.
Yeah, that, I didn't know that part of it, but that's pretty exciting.
I'll have to tell my kids to start working harder in high school.
You know, they're significant seven and eight, so I'll start to remit it now.
The one thing though, that, you know, the big, the big point here as well is that you
don't have that formal like, you know, bachelor degree or diploma or whatever it is.
(21:39):
It doesn't stop you being so successful.
You might be one of the most successful people that I know.
It's all on hard work, determination and clearly a passion for what you do.
Yeah.
I would say that and it's also, it's also going back to the vision and direction.
So if you get up in the morning, you know what you want to do.
Like it's easy to grind through getting tons of hard, boring, whatever junk's done and
(22:05):
out of the way because you have a purpose and a passion for what you're doing.
So that I would say is the, what helps give me motivation to get all that done.
I mean, one of the things I'm currently working on is a little bit new of an experience, but
I'm going through my series seven 66 certification or licenses for wealth management.
(22:34):
And so I have my series seven exam actually scheduled for Friday this week.
So that will be around the corner here.
So by the time this gets published or whatever it probably I'll be done with that.
So and then I'm off to the 66 and the recently and last couple of years added an SI exam
(22:56):
at the front end of both of those.
So I did that a month or two ago.
But yeah, it's that I would say it's just a desire to learn, desire to continue growing
and continue serving my clients holistically because the more we can provide to them completing
the circle, I would say of client service.
(23:18):
So we help a client get started, form their business.
We help them with their accounting then and doing their bookkeeping and we help them with
their tax preparation, but it doesn't just stop with tax preparation goes in a tax planning
and tax strategy.
That's where we can help them save their money.
So we have them grow their money and then save their money.
And then what do we do with that?
(23:40):
Well, wealth management is kind of the missing piece in the circle that we can help them
save or grow their money then after they've earned their money.
But in that category, what I'm actually the most passionate about in there is helping
people think through where and how they invest, not just areas of maximizing greatest ROI
(24:04):
or return on investment, but more of a concept of thinking.
So there's concepts of values based investing, VBI, there's for Christians, there might
be BRI, which is Biblically Responsible Investing or others, maybe it's ESG, environmental,
(24:25):
social governance, whatever, those kind of categories and they're not the same categories.
But I'm very passionate about those types of things and helping people think about the
power of investing and where they invest because think of all the good that we can accomplish
(24:46):
with the money that we've been blessed with.
And it's not just about us, it's about blessing others with what we've been given.
And investing is a huge opportunity to do that.
Think about if all the businesses have failed because they can't get off the ground with
cash flow and all the good things that could revolutionize the world, cancer could be cured,
(25:13):
lots of different things could be solved if there was investors willing to step forward
and put the money into these different companies.
So all kinds of incredible opportunities out there and it's just about looking for the
best companies that are actually contributing to the common good of society rather than
(25:34):
those that are extracting good from society.
So those companies are the ones that I'm concerned about, but there are tremendous opportunities
on the other end to do incredible good.
Yeah, this is what is now March, so a couple of six months ago I started hearing about
all these different categories and how there are specific wealth firms out there right
(25:58):
now that that's all they do.
They figure out how to help people and a lot of the times they're either the person's
full advisor or their partner with a bigger advisory firm.
They're like, hey, they have a percentage of the money that they want to put to this
portion and these specialists come in that understand it and able to vet that it's really
trying to do good and not just like some face for a sweatshop or anything like that.
(26:19):
It's very, very intriguing and something I've been interested in reading up on a lot and
I shouldn't be surprised that this is something that Caleb is clearly finding interesting
and a place that is close to his heart because he is an incredible person and giving back
to the community and giving so much of his time to important causes is a lot of what
(26:41):
I find inspiring about Caleb.
So should we just use this as a segue and talk to us about some of your outreach work
that you do?
Sure, that'd be fine.
So I, back in 2013, I took a trip down to Haiti.
This I think is where you're interested in hearing.
It's a good starting point.
There's other opportunities too but that trip was an incredible trip.
(27:06):
It was to learn, I'd known about a program.
It was called Assault Program that stands for shared accountability, lending and teaching
and I traveled there to learn about this program.
It was with a group of other accountants and they were just seeking input and advice and
opinions on how to make the program better and it was also to get excitement for donors,
(27:34):
whatever, to try to encourage growth in the program.
In that trip, they, one of them pulled me aside and he's like, hey, actually a couple
different people pulled me aside, different organizations down there and they're like,
hey, we need a bookkeeper.
Can you come work for us?
And I'm like, no, no, no, no.
I kept telling everybody no because that wasn't what I wasn't wanting to move down there.
(27:58):
I wasn't wanting to, I mean, I maybe thought about it briefly but it wasn't, it wasn't
what my passion was.
And so, but over time, after I came home then they, the Assault Program continued reaching
out to me and so I talked to him about it a little bit and we kind of made plans for
a trip and then that kind of felt through.
(28:18):
And then later they had an incident where there was an issue with one of their employees
had taken some money.
It was a small amount in USD but a large amount in their economy and that really broke the
trust of the people that Assault Program was trying to serve.
(28:38):
And so they were like, hey, we really need to do something better.
So I'm like, okay, maybe that created fire underneath my seat, whatever.
And I'm like, okay, I need to go.
So I need to start helping, whatever.
And so I scheduled a trip for May of 2015, so a year and a half later and they, from
(29:00):
there I helped them get set up with QuickBooks and just did a lot of the normal stuff that
I work with businesses throughout the US on.
And it was a very exciting trip because it was a way that I could give forward to others
based on what I had been blessed with.
And through that though, I learned so many different things that changed and revolutionized
(29:24):
the way that I think about the world and think about the work that I do.
And really it's about categorizing need into different buckets or categories.
So there's what's called crisis or chronic poverty or crisis or critical poverty and
then there's chronic poverty on the other end.
(29:44):
And the crisis or critical is really like the result of a disaster or an earthquake
or a tsunami or a hurricane or war or famine.
It's typically something that happens to you, not something that it's been just bad decisions
or whatever, but chronic poverty is typically bad decisions that have been generational.
(30:09):
So grandparents were in the same boat, parents were in the same boat, we're in the same boat
today.
And so responding to those two different types of poverty are completely different types
of responses or should be different responses.
And far too often we treat them the same way by accidents, just because it's easy to respond
(30:32):
to the critical or crisis poverty.
We can see right in front of us what the need is.
They need food, they need clothing, they need water, they need shelter, they need whatever
the case may be.
They need protection from war, they need maybe the refugees fleeing from something, they
need housing, whatever the case may be.
(30:54):
There's a need that we can see right in front of us.
But what's far more difficult is a chronic because the need on the surface appears almost
identical.
But behind the curtain when you dig underneath the surface, it's far more complex.
And a lot of times it's a lack of education, it's a lack of knowledge, it's a lack of
(31:19):
experience, it's a lack of hope.
Ultimately it is the biggest barrier to them for success is they have no hope.
They feel like the system is against them, they feel like they can't succeed.
So it's more of an emotional or a psychological or even a spiritual need that individuals
(31:42):
have in chronic poverty.
And so thinking about that, that's very true of a lot of the different types of work that
we do on a day-to-day basis.
So I think there at Scaling, Nuitza gave a couple of different examples of different
types of situations and categorizing these needs and how we can actually dig underneath
(32:04):
the surface and try to analyze and dig into what the root cause of the problem is.
So one of my favorites is as an example is I might have a business client that is struggling
with cash flow and they reach out to me because they can't make payroll next week and they
need a short-term loan.
(32:25):
Well, there's great apps out there, I mean that you can get a loan through QuickBooks
Capital or get a term loan through smart business loans or finance an invoice or fund there
or there's dozens of apps that will help with that problem.
Well, and that may be the ultimate thing that I do, but if I stop right there, am I actually
(32:50):
hurting or am I helping the problem?
And a lot of people would initially respond that you're helping because you're solving
the need that's right in front of you.
But most cases I'm probably actually hurting rather than helping.
And if I try to understand that, if I actually help them, maybe yes, I do help them get access
(33:12):
to the financing right now, but I'm going to try to solve why are they in this situation
to begin with.
And that's digging underneath the surface to maybe it's a people problem, maybe they
don't have the right people on their team and they've got way too much payroll costs
or maybe they're not producing enough as a company so they're not bringing enough revenue
(33:33):
to cover their costs or maybe it's a pricing problem.
Maybe they're doing all good work and etc.
But they haven't raised the prices in 10 years and costs go up over time.
That's what inflation is, what we've experienced the last five years at a much higher level.
So a lot of times you got to dig into that and try to understand that in a lot more detail.
(33:57):
So it's an area that there's not one answer that fits all solutions.
It's really an analytical experience.
You got to work with the individual, work with the business to try to find what the
root cause is.
And that becomes now our target to try to solve for that root cause problem instead of just
(34:20):
treating the surface symptoms.
So through that, I mean I've learned so much and there's so much that I've inspired now
to help other accountants and other business individuals to learn ways to give forward
to others too.
Through my experiences, I would say it's revolutionized the way that I do work, the why for why I
(34:43):
do work because it's a way to help others and give back to and give forward to others
just like I was blessed and encouraged.
I mean, I think about all the individuals that have invested into me, Titans of the
accounting space like Joe Woodard and like Doug's leader and I mean, I could go down
(35:07):
the laundry list of everybody that has invested in me and I look out and I think, man, I've
barely touched anybody comparatively to everybody that's invested in me.
So I've got tremendous amounts of work to do to continue giving forward to others.
I want you all this to be really incredible and inspiring and Caleb that I mean that story
(35:28):
is amazing.
The analogy hard but forms into the way you do business the way you help people.
I mean, it's such a great lesson for a lot of accountants, consultants out there.
We're always sort of so focused on let's just like, you know, put a patchwork on this just
fix it, just keep moving, just get the boat instead of like, let's pull the boat out the
water, let's repair what it is, we don't keep getting that patch, you know, just fix it
(35:49):
going on.
I mean, we see it in our business all the time, like, oh, we're running out of cash.
Like, yeah, you are selling wine at no margin.
You can't do it, right?
Like, we got to fix that either reduce your cost, increase your prices or discontinue that
line.
Like you've got to make a change.
Also, you're going to be the same problem.
It's a good way to think about trying to try to help people solve their problem in the
long term rather than just patch it.
(36:11):
And obviously you can patch it along the way and you should patch it along the way because
especially in a payroll situation, you don't want people to go unpaid, but help them fix
it.
Like that's what we should be doing.
That's where the value at is at the end of the day.
That's ultimately, in my opinion, that's ultimately what advisory work is.
That's the buzz in our industry is switching from compliance to advisory.
(36:35):
And really advisory is an area where you're not just doing a tax return, you're not just
doing a bank reconciliation, you're not just doing a financial statement or whatever.
You are trying to help the business in an unscripted way, help them understand how to
(36:56):
solve their problems, how to solve the root problems, not just treating the surface of
them.
Yeah.
And I would say to that, start to learn to really listen to your clients.
Don't just quickly, you know, don't just like, you know, like, you know, you're not
like, half year their words and start solving the problem.
Really listen to what they're saying to you.
Because 99% of the time they're going to tell you what the problem is, but you actually
(37:19):
have to listen like, it's in between the lines, right?
There's a little bit of, I don't know, embarrassment that things are working out.
So they're trying to tell you, they're trying to get the help if you need to really learn
to listen, pay attention and answer the questions that they're really asking you if you want
to be a good advisor.
Caleb, can you give me some insight into what your day to day looks like?
Well, right now it's get up and study.
(37:40):
And, and etc.
But my normal day to day is, I mean, I typically get up about 540 or something in the morning
and get ready in the morning, take an hour or so.
And I typically listen to listen to Bible in the morning.
And then I maybe listen to some other podcasts, maybe get ready for the night.
(38:03):
I have a pretty slow morning.
And then around 730 or something start work for the day.
I typically, not every day, but it typically still go into the office every day.
Most of our team works in person.
And so the, so typically I would be at the office by 730, sometimes earlier than that,
(38:28):
sometimes later depends on the day.
And then during the day, like I probably, I mean, I probably did everything the wrong
way.
But I look at my email, clear out my email at the beginning of the day, I respond as
much stuff as I can forward as much stuff as I can to other team members to try to have
(38:51):
them work on the problems or items that that come up and inside of there.
I look at my schedule for the day, try to see what meetings I have for the day.
And then kind of map out what I'm going to try to get done for the day.
And then periodically, at least once a week, I try to think about the bigger pictures,
(39:13):
things that I really need to accomplish it.
Since I'm in the tax business, our work is kind of cyclical.
I have a built-in calendar that I've got certain things that need to be done during
times of the year.
So my developmental and experimental phase of business is typically May through November,
(39:36):
not December through April.
And so if I am wanting to go learn a new item, if I'm wanting to try out a new software application,
if I'm wanting to do any of that type of stuff, I try to get all that done during the May to
November timeframe.
(39:56):
And so that way I'm not upsetting the application during the tax season.
Beyond that, like, typically, I mean, I probably work too much too, but I, most days, I'd wrap
up six or so in the afternoon or evening.
And then a lot of times I have social events and things in the evening with our church group
(40:21):
or whatever, I have a lot of guests at my house through the year.
So typically at least not the last couple of months because I've been studying, but
it's more so.
But most of the time I would have guests at my house at least once a week for either a
Bible study or a guest after a church on Sunday, whatever, for me or whatever, or barbecue
(40:47):
on Saturday night or ping pong tournament or lots of that type of stuff.
So yeah, I like to work inside of our community and give forward in that way too.
Community is important to you?
Absolutely.
Obviously, you do a lot of the church and then a lot of the accounting community as
(41:09):
well.
I know you're one of the most beloved people in that accounting community.
I mean, what do you get from the community?
What value does that to life?
It inspires me.
And seeing others grow, seeing others change, I mean, that's powerful.
(41:31):
And I feel like back to my earlier comment, so many have invested in me in different ways.
I have a responsibility to give back to others too.
It's not just a, I don't know, I feel like it today and I don't feel like it tomorrow,
whatever.
(41:51):
It's like all of my life should be giving forward or giving to others.
I mean, of course, in giving, there's an element of giving that is, when you give, you get
something in return for it, almost every case.
It's not like you're just depleting yourself.
(42:11):
I mean, every time I've ever given it any way I've ever given, I've got back so much
more than I've ever given.
And so, like, I hate to do this, but I'm going to pick on something I saw on X last week,
which is someone made the comment about community groups starting up and how it's a split focus
(42:38):
of time and attention and if you're so successful, just add into your business and grow your business.
And I saw it and I quote tweeted it and I'm like, hey, sometimes it's not just about ourselves.
Sometimes it's about giving to others and it doesn't have to be that we're trying to
(42:58):
make profit over here and make profit over here and we're just trying to do all this
stuff.
And I'm like, hey, I've experienced something that has revolutionized my world and I want
to revolutionize your world too so that we can all succeed.
There's a saying that arising tide lifts all boats, whatever.
(43:21):
It's very true.
I think our world today is very different than the world of 40, 50 years ago, where a lot
more was seen as competition.
And so if we are competing with each other, like of course, I don't want to give to you
(43:41):
if we're competing with each other because I want to protect what's mine.
But if I think that by giving to you, I'm going to help you and by so doing, you're
going to help me in return.
Of course, I want to lift everybody and so many times that's been true in my life.
My career is by giving to others that give back to me.
(44:05):
Yeah, 100% career.
I know I freak out some of my competitors because I'm always open to share thoughts and
send referrals their way if it doesn't like, and they just don't get it.
They don't understand it.
And people are wondering about the giving portion and the receiving portion and go read
the book, Go Givers.
The last rule in there is the law of receptivity.
And that is being open to receiving gifts as well.
(44:27):
You can't just continuously give.
You'll eventually get depleted.
Caleb, you mentioned earlier that your parents taught you to be a leader rather than a follower.
What does that mean to you?
So I think it can be taken in different ways that sometimes is not healthy because sometimes
you should be a follower too.
Not everybody can be, I mean, just, I mean, today's election day, whatever.
(44:50):
Not everybody can be president.
Not everybody can be whatever that sometimes we have to follow.
And I think it's good to learn the experience of being a follower too.
That's obeying the laws that exist, obeying, doing the right thing, et cetera.
But on the other end, it is good to be aspirational and to set forward a path and a vision for
(45:17):
where you want to go.
And that, I think, is the gist of leading is setting a target, having a vision and having
the mission purpose to get there and inspiring others along the way to come alongside you
and accomplish that goal.
Love it.
(45:38):
What advice would you have to others for them to be better leaders in their business and
their communities?
If you don't have a vision, go back and search your inner being and see where you come.
Joe Woodard says pretty regularly, vision is the intersection of your higher principle
(45:59):
that you follow and the good that you want to see in the world and what you're uniquely
gifted to do.
So you combine those three things together and that is the makings or the shaping of
your vision.
So really think about what your vision is and hone in on it and then go full bore on
(46:20):
that.
Sometimes the other thing about vision is vision can be divisive too.
And we don't like to think of it that way, but vision, if you're just accepting of everything
and anything, then going back to depletion, you're going to get depleted because you don't
have the bandwidth to be able to do everything to all people at all times.
(46:44):
But if you have vision and you and you say, we're going to accomplish X and whatever X
is, we're going to go all in on that.
That means sometimes you might have a team member that's not a good fit for X.
Sometimes you have clients that are not a good fit for X.
(47:05):
Sometimes you have products or services that you're offering that are not a good fit for
whatever X is.
And so if you hone in on X, it can be divisive, but it can also be a way that you can go much
deeper, much faster by focusing on what your X is.
Incredible.
For the young people out there that are listening and maybe contemplating becoming accountants,
(47:29):
what advice do you have for them?
Oh boy, that's a good one.
I love that one.
So I would say, I mean, if you are contemplating it, what I would do is talk to accountants,
come to, I mean, one of the best ways is go to an accounting conference and just learn.
(47:50):
And you would get inspired at the accounting conference.
You might get overwhelmed, but it's a way to shape your opinion of what's actually happening
in the real world and the upcoming, what you can be as an accountant.
The other thing that I would say is if you're actually serious about going down the path,
(48:12):
get certified as a QuickBooks Pro Advisor, as a zero advisor, whatever path you're going
to go there, learn your products very well.
We'll provide you so many opportunities to expand your horizons and then get involved
in communities that exist too.
(48:32):
So there's various Facebook groups and LinkedIn groups and start joining those groups and
learning from others.
Follow communities on X, whatever, what you speak on Twitter and start going to conferences
again.
There's a great way to build relationships.
(48:53):
So that's where, I mean, I know we had connected on LinkedIn, but for me, I really didn't know
you until you came up with me after my session at Scaling the Heights.
But ever since then, I feel like I, I mean, I don't know you terribly well, but I feel
like I know you at least in part now.
Because after that, I looked you up online and I'm like, hey, who is this guy that I,
(49:15):
I mean, and so I will, whenever I see you in the future at conferences, I'm always
going to say hi and I'm going to try to understand what's, what's happened in your world.
But that's the power of community and the power of learning together.
Like last question, tell us something about you that's a little interesting that you
(49:38):
haven't shared already.
The young accountants, you know, the person that's out there helping make it a better
world.
But what else can you tell us about us to sort of give us insight into care the person
is?
Why?
So I already said that I have seven siblings.
So that's one thing that a lot of people, I mean, may not know.
(49:59):
I'm not married, not dormant again.
So that does provide me the capability to do a lot of things that maybe I wouldn't be
able to do if I was.
I'm not saying I won't, I will always be in that state, but that's where I'm at today.
Other things about me, boy, bought my house, bought my first house, my only house I ever
bought when I was 26.
(50:20):
That was that was a really fun thing.
And the reminder you guys, he lives in California where this is a massive achievement.
Just after I was just after I turned 26, so I started the process when I was 25.
So that was fun.
And then let's see here.
I've traveled internationally.
(50:43):
Let's see here 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 times.
And I love to travel internationally.
I haven't done anything this year, but I hope to next year again, last year at the end
of the year, I went to Qatar and Bangladesh.
So that was both of those were fun places to go to with other things.
(51:06):
Perfect.
Thanks for sharing so much, Caleb.
I really appreciate it and really learned so much from you today on pretty conversation
we like to end with five rapid fire questions.
If you're ready, I can get them going.
What is your dream vacation?
Why?
That sounds like an easy question, but it's kind of a hard question because really my
I don't have a what would be considered a normal vacation probably in mind, but I would
(51:31):
love to visit every single of the 27 28 countries that the salt program operates in.
And I hope to accomplish that someday.
That sounds like a great way to spend time.
Number two, do you prefer audio books or paper books?
So very much so paper books, but I have been growing in the audiobook realm and particularly
(51:58):
what is a dividing line in my and this might be a crazy dividing line, but when the author
reads their own book, I can listen to the audio book.
If it's someone else reading the audio book is really hard.
So pick like John Maxwell.
I've listened to two of his books, one that he read and one that another person read.
(52:24):
World of difference and in the and the learnings that I picked up like when I listened to him
reading his book, it was like I was sitting and listening to him talk to me face to face.
And it was just him.
You have all the voice inflections of the person.
So don't still paperback or hardback.
Hardback could be my choice, but but I mean, I'm growing on audio books.
(52:48):
So perfect.
And number three, what is the quality you appreciate in a good friend?
Boy, I would say passion.
Good one.
A favorite book you can recommend everybody reads favorite book.
Okay, this one's this one's a little bit interesting, but it's an old book.
It's a it's a fiction.
I don't typically read a lot of fiction, but is one called ishmo.
(53:10):
It's by an author feed in South Worth.
It's a I think it was written in the either late 1700s or early 1800s, but it's a fascinating
book.
There's a sequel to it called self raised to that they're just incredible books.
I'll have to go find it.
(53:31):
Last question.
What was your favorite childhood meal?
Favorite childhood meal.
So one that was pro I think this is outside of just our my grown up environment, but we
called it Hawaiian meal.
So it's like croutons and then rice and then gravy and then there's like typically chicken
(53:54):
and then there's coconut and some other.
I mean, lettuce and cilantro and celery and a whole bunch of other toppings on it.
But yeah, kind of like kind of like straw hats if you've ever had straw hats.
Okay, maybe that's another that's another one of them.
So that that's like chili on top of chips, whatever.
(54:16):
And then you have cheese and lettuce and I mean, hot sauce and salsa and whatever on
top of it.
But probably those two meals were two of my favorites.
They both sound delicious.
They sound like winners.
Taylor, I appreciate the time today.
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me on.
And with that, we end another proto conversations.
Thank you for joining us in this journey of learning and inspiration.
(54:38):
Today we've gained insight from our guests and taken another step towards understanding
the adverse tapestry of leadership in business and accounting.
Remember each conversation is a step towards the positive transformation of business leaders.
We hope our discussions have given you valuable takeaways.
Remember that each conversation is a step towards the positive transformation of business
leaders.
We hope our discussion has given you valuable takeaways to apply in your own career and
(55:01):
life.
Don't forget to subscribe to Proto Conversations on YouTube and Spotify so you never miss an
episode.
We also love to hear your thoughts and experiences so connect with me on social media channels.
I'm most active on LinkedIn and would love you to join the conversation.
Join us next time for more engaging stories, advice and conversations that matter.
Until then, keep striving for excellence and embrace and growth.
Thank you for listening, be kind and goodbye from Proto Conversations.
Welcome to Pretty Conversations, the podcast where leadership in business and accounting
(00:09):
isn't just discussed, it's explored.
I'm your host, Saint Stevens, and thank you for joining me as we delve into the mind to
some of the most influential leaders in the industry.
A journey is one of discovery from unraveling the unique stories that shape our guest's
careers to invaluable advice that fueled their success.
We had to provide you with simple, actionable advice to accelerate your career and personal
growth.
(00:29):
Whether you're a budding professional or a seasoned executive, these conversations are
designed to offer insights and perspectives that resonate with everyone.
So tune in, engage, and be inspired as we build better leaders together.
Welcome to Pretty Conversations.
Today we're thrilled to have Caleb Jenkins, the 2024 Encyclical Accountants Pro-Advisor
of the Year, and a consistent figure in the top 40 under 40 in the accounting profession,
(00:53):
being highlighted there since 2016, every year since.
Caleb has revolutionized the business financial management by emphasizing tax reduction, accounting
automation, and strategic clarity.
His commitment extends beyond his business achievements, actively contributing to various
advisory boards, and applying these expertise to assist nonprofits in developing countries.
(01:13):
Join us as we delve into Caleb's impactful journey and explore the innovative approach
that accounting in finance.
Caleb, welcome to the show.
Hey, it's great to be here with you, Zane.
Yeah, it is such an honor to have you, and we're going to talk a lot about your accounting
career because, one, I think it started when you were like three years old, which is pretty
(01:34):
interesting to take on.
But what is more exciting for me is everything that you do outside of the accounting world
and all the inspirational work that you do, do that makes such a big difference in so
many people's lives.
And I got to you speak at Scaling New Heights this year, and you sort of spoke about making
that difference to the people around you, which I found incredibly inspiring.
(01:56):
And the best session I attended at Scaling New Heights, and not even from any other point
that it just made me feel really good.
And at the time, made me feel a little bit guilty that I maybe need to do more in my
community.
Well, that's a, it wasn't intended to make somebody feel guilty, but rather to inspire
people to greatness.
And so it was mostly just sharing a little bit of my journey, and it's a passion topic
(02:22):
of mine.
So whenever I have the opportunity to talk about it and inspire somebody else, that's
what I love to do.
I mean, it was good guilt as well, right?
Like there's guilt where it's like, oh man, that's guys making me feel bad and more of
that.
I try and do as much as I can for my community, but there is more that I can give.
And you know, sometimes maybe I just sort of have to put off, I can work one hour less
(02:43):
and give one hour back more.
And I think that's a good, you know, that's a good walk away from a session.
So I want to jump into your accounting career, but first, you know, I want to list off like
for you people that don't know Caleb, this guy's incredible.
I mean, I'm just going to roll off some of these, you know, different accomplishments
enrolled agent 2024 Prodvisor the year 2016 to 2024 top 100 QuickBooks Provisors 2016
(03:07):
to 2024 top 40 under 40 2016 top up and camera Prodvisor 2016, Philip and Thonk trick.
Excellent award winner.
Like it just end like it's a never ending list of awards and it's really impressive.
And mostly because the point is, you know, if you meet Caleb, there's not like he's shoving
it down your throat.
(03:27):
He's just a very humble person that is always looking to make good connections, take some
time to talk to people and really make a difference around it.
But how did you get into this world of accounting?
How did you decide that this is what I wanted?
So I got started when my, I mean, I like you kind of led it.
(03:48):
It's maybe a little bit not totally factual.
I started, I didn't start at three years old, but but not it wasn't too far off in the
sense that my dad had an accounting firm.
So I the first 10 years of my life, the my dad's office was two separate buildings.
There was the front office in the back office, but at our home location.
(04:11):
So and I was homeschooled growing up.
And so when I was finished with school for the day, I would go out a lot of time, not
every day, but a lot of times I'd find my way back out into the office.
And there was always stuff to do, maybe, maybe just annoying to the other employees.
But, but I mean, things such as shredding and client filing and different other things.
(04:33):
So I enjoyed all those components of, of interacting with the team, getting involved with it.
For a couple of years, I actually thought about, I don't know, you might call fantasy
of being a medical doctor or whatever, but that quickly faded.
And it kind of just came back to my home ruts of how I was raised, whatever, and an opportunity
(04:59):
was to get started full time.
Again, I'd kind of done off and on periodically from an early age, but officially started
in 2008 and went from there forward.
So it's been a fun journey ever since.
(05:20):
That's so interesting because, you know, if I asked my kids who are seven and eight at
the moment, what do I do?
They sort of know I'm an accountant, but for them, it'll be like, oh, you work with wine,
which, you know, it's not not factually true, but it's close enough.
They've got no idea what I'm doing.
Like they're seeing me in front of a laptop.
They don't really ask too many questions.
But I guess back then a lot more, there were paper files, which, yeah, I'm old enough to
(05:44):
have worked on paper files and know what that's all about.
And, you know, I did the vacation work when I was in college and four hours of shredding
paper was a different pastime.
But intriguing that you sort of got involved in that, you know, your dad sort of let you
get involved.
I'm sure the team members were very happy to have you doing that junkie work that they
(06:04):
probably didn't want to do.
So annoying at times, but very thankful at other times, I'm sure.
But I mean, did your dad encourage it or was it just sort of out of your own like this
or like that's where you wanted to be at times?
It's funny on one of your comments there is I loved that junk work earlier on.
Like it was, it was so much fun.
(06:24):
Like looking back, it was so stupid, but like I loved the eight hours of shredding.
Like, sweet.
There's, there's, there's a mountain of work that I got to get done and let's see how fast
I can get it done or then it transitioned from there into QuickBooks desktop of entering
a thousand transactions from your, from your credit card statement.
(06:45):
It was just a, it was a race to see how fast I could get them entered and etc.
I loved that type of work early on.
But to your question of did my dad encourage it, I'm sure behind this curtain he did, but
not, not, not something where he pushed for it outwardly.
(07:07):
It was more so like I enjoyed it.
He recognized that and he, I mean, I, I probably was more pushing on my end to, hey, like,
is there something more that can be done?
And then finally, I mean, after I had been doing it kind of more officially or internal
HR lady, she's like, hey, we probably need to get Caleb on payroll.
(07:30):
And so it's like, I wasn't going to turn that down.
So that became my official start time.
And from that point forward, it did turn into more full time work.
Yeah, that was going to be my next question.
When did you officially get on the payroll?
What age were you?
So probably too young, but it, I mean, it was my dad's firm.
Yeah.
I was 14.
Oh, wow.
(07:50):
I mean, that's youngish, but not that young.
I mean, there's forms that you can follow to sort of, you know, work your way around
that, that we had that the proprietors, the parent, but I'm sure there's workarounds around
all of that.
And I wasn't, I wasn't done anything.
I mean, I, at the time I wasn't done any overtime or anything that would have been problematic
(08:10):
in that sense.
So, yeah, I mean, it still blows my mind.
I mean, I just think back on like when I was that age and the jobs that I was doing, I
mean, I was fitting tires.
I was working backstage at that constant and stuff and putting stuff together.
I would have never even thought about accounting.
I mean, I did it as a subject in high school, but I didn't really know what it meant at
that point in time.
I mean, I probably got like two years through my college qualification still didn't really
(08:34):
know what I was signing up for.
So it's fairly unique.
Even, you know, even with people who have parents that are accountants for their children
to actually understand what they're doing and what the job involves.
And I think mostly, you know, because as a parent myself, I'm like, oh, I wouldn't be
upset if my kids are accountants, but go be whatever you want to be, right?
Like, don't just be an accountant.
(08:55):
I know it's a great job and not a stable job.
There's a lot of opportunities that come from it, but dream big.
Go be whatever you want.
So it is interesting that you got so involved, but I love that you were the person who wanted
to do it, which is really exciting for me.
Yeah.
And I could say to the point it did my dad push for it.
The answer was absolutely no, because all my siblings, none of them wanted to do it.
(09:16):
None of them were, I mean, maybe, maybe a little bit to my sisters that were like needed during
taxis in a couple of years, and they might not have chosen to officially, but like it
was, it was temporary work and what outside of that.
Like none of my, none of my other siblings, I have a fairly large family.
(09:38):
There's seven, I have seven siblings.
And so, but yeah, they like all four of my brother or three of my brothers, there's four
of us guys.
None of them have ever, ever worked in the office, never had any desire to work in the
office.
All three of them primarily ended up on the farm, which is part of my background too.
(10:00):
But yeah, that's a, that would be, I could say honestly, like none of us were pressured
to join and work inside this.
The other point was how did I really get interested in it?
And I would say a lot of that was more passive in the sense that I loved computers growing
(10:22):
up as kids.
My brothers mostly enjoyed being outside playing in the orchard or playing in the yard or whatever,
but I, I enjoyed playing on the computer.
So I made countless business cards via French shop program with Microsoft, whatever, just
like I dreams and did, did whatever there.
(10:44):
I would play on my Microsoft Flight simulator and love the, the flight programs, whatever
they're, I don't know, maybe some other games too.
But like early on into my mom had QuickBooks on our home computer in our house and she
would struggle with the dumb bank reconciliation.
(11:06):
She had a couple of like very micro side business things that she was involved in and my dad
had that on our home computer.
And so because I loved the computer, she would occasionally ask her for me to help her out
with something on it when she couldn't figure it out.
So I kind of just naturally learned QuickBooks through my mom, not, not even so much to my
(11:27):
dad.
And it was soon after that that I started baking cookies for my dad during tax season.
And he's like, Hey, for me to pay you, I need an invoice.
And so I started tracking my own books on QuickBooks.
And I'm like, Hey, I don't want to mix my personal business together.
But I watched some, some help videos and read some help articles and whatever.
(11:51):
And like, so I created a class to keep my, my cookie business separate from my personal
stuff and yeah, that, that away from there.
So I mean, I would say my dad put things in front of me and gave me opportunities.
And that's one of the biggest blessings that I, that I could point back to is that he didn't
hinder my path towards growth on what I was doing.
(12:13):
Well, I mean, what I'm hearing is that one, you have a pretty entrepreneurial family and
dad at the accounting business, your mom at her side, business is going, the farming side
of it all happening.
And what I hear from this is that your parents encouraged you to sort of take accountability
for you.
You are, you know, take opportunities, try to be entrepreneurial yourself.
(12:33):
And hey, that turned you into an accountant.
That's fine.
That's still, you know, it's still, you can still be a business owner and accountant,
but it feels like they set you up with some really great business skills, which more kids
should have, right?
I mean, I think we work with business owners, which I'm sure you wish the same way as I
do that they had more business skills built into them.
(12:53):
Yeah.
One of the things that they, they drove on maybe to a fault early on, but was that the
aspect of being a leader rather than a follower.
And so trying to understand that if you're a follower, you're always going to be subject
to the wins and wishes and desires of everybody else.
But if you're a leader, then, then you can design your own path and others more or less
(13:19):
will fall in line with them.
And people like to follow somebody that has vision, that has direction in their life and
with their direction in their career, with their business and what a lot of people leave
businesses because there's no vision in the business.
There's no direction with where that business is headed.
(13:41):
So, so I definitely credit them for that too.
So you eventually finished high school and then decided to go get your accounting qualifications?
Yeah.
So I, in high school and again, I was homeschooled.
So I had a lot of creativity or flexibility in terms of how I could design one of the
things I loved is I, I would do like a week's worth of math in one morning and then the next
(14:05):
out to weeks worth of grammar and a week's worth of whatever other subjects history and
etc.
And what I loved about that is I could, I could like go really deep on something and
go very far rather than just scatter my attention focus across all these 20 different subjects
or seven different subjects or whatever.
(14:26):
I did that more in high school.
But then the latter two years of high school, I, I did dual credit with both college classes
online and high school stuff at home.
So that piece of it, I got rack up quite a few different business classes and accounting
classes and economic classes and etc.
(14:49):
In that process, actually never, I never finished with a graduate or with a bachelor
degree or anything I pondered that frequently over over time as I've continued in life.
I want to do the reasons why I didn't was one, one of the, or actually three simultaneous
(15:11):
reasons, but one of them was I struggled with some of the non accounting, non business,
non economic classes, a lot of the other general ed.
One of them was a class called analyzing interpreting literature that I took and failed three times
and it was a required class for the degree path of accounting for the school I was going
(15:37):
through and I'm like, or the online college and I'm like, it was this, it was a terrible,
terrible type of a class that finally they said, Hey, you could, you could take an alternative
one instead of this one.
But like, I'm not a bad student.
Yep.
Typically.
But it wasn't something I was interested in today.
(15:57):
I'm probably actually far more interested in the literature than I ever was in.
But I just wanted to take my accounting classes.
I wanted to take my business classes.
I want to take my economic classes.
I thrived in those ones scored very well and all of those types of classes.
It was just the the and like even history.
(16:19):
I love history, but I wasn't focused on history then.
So I failed one or two history classes too.
And so some of that was a little bit of a challenge whenever you fail something.
It's, it doesn't boost your, your spirits very much.
So there's that component, but this, I would say the bigger component was an arm, the middle
(16:42):
component is I was also working pretty much full time at this point too.
And so that made it hard to do college kind of full time and high school or pretty much
finished with high school by this point, but then working full time and college full time
and then social and church and all the other types of stuff full time too.
(17:07):
So that made it difficult.
But probably the biggest reason that I stepped away from it is I, I was going down the degree
path because I was going to go the route of being a CPA, which is what everybody did.
But I stepped away from it for two reasons.
One was at that point, which was, I don't know, probably 12 years ago at this point,
(17:30):
maybe 13.
I don't remember exactly, but I, I'm like, is a CPA really going to continue to be the
lock on the profession that it was at that point?
And the two reasons that I gave that I thought about was technology advancement is the biggest
one.
So as even at that point, like it was maybe very early rumblings, but there was some talk
(17:52):
in the area of artificial intelligence, like you have to listen intricately for it.
But like you, you heard it in very sophisticated talks or whatever, but it was like, Hey, that's
going to revolutionize the work that we do.
And is that going to, is that going to keep the lock on the profession?
And the second piece is I could do everything that I wanted to do without a CPA because
(18:19):
I never wanted to do audit to begin with.
So it's like the EA gave me the tax side, the, and then QuickBooks knowledge gave me,
gave me the product experience.
Plus I would consider that I learned accounting by using QuickBooks backwards.
(18:39):
I didn't learn the, learn the textbook approach first.
I learned the program and the program taught me the, the textbook.
And when I did the textbook stuff, it was a piece of cake because I had already pictured
in my mind everything about accounting from journal entries to balance sheet versus profit
loss, the debits and credits, like even to this day, I still picture my debits and credits
(19:04):
looking at my balance sheet and profit loss by side of my mind.
And I think about it and I think about my assets up here and my liabilities down here
and my income and then my cost to get sold and expenses.
And I have in my mind a, a X come linking the two together and peace cake and as, as
long as you do that, then, then all of it just kind of falls in line.
(19:28):
And I mean, it's far more complex than that, but it's, that's the simple of it.
So,
Well, I mean, the big secret is it isn't much more complicated than that.
But it's always fine that the difference between good accounts about account is being able
to see that picture.
And you know, you're saying it, I'm like, I didn't think about that way, but then I
announced sort of sitting in the background.
I'm like, I probably, I do mine's a little tea accounts, but they're in the same places
(19:52):
and it's sort of the same picture.
So that makes sense.
A couple of things though, you would have loved my qualification.
I have a B calm in accounting for chartered accountants, the three year undergrad program,
no fluff.
My biggest fluff course was statistics one on one, which I probably would have enjoyed
anyway.
So yeah, it was a fun subject.
(20:12):
I enjoyed it.
Not the best lecture, but we, we did well.
So no fluff courses, none of the staff, I just, you know, was just pure, like this is to become
a charter account and become a CPA.
This is all you have to do.
So that made my life easier.
Yeah, well, doing high school and college together, like I can barely comprehend it.
Like I just learned that not so long ago that people can do college credits in high school.
(20:35):
Like that was, I was like, what, what are you guys talking about?
Which I thought was pretty cool.
I don't think that exists back in South Africa, but that you're basically running your whole
college qualification or doing the same is super impressive.
One of the, one of the great parts back then, it's different today at least in California.
I don't know about every state, but is back then at least the, when you did college credit
(20:57):
going to junior college, it was free.
When you were a high school student, I think it's free across the board now, at least for
the tuition piece, but the, it was, that was, that was incredible then because that was
a huge cost savings by being doing it in high school and taking the college class at the
(21:17):
same time.
Yeah, that, I didn't know that part of it, but that's pretty exciting.
I'll have to tell my kids to start working harder in high school.
You know, they're significant seven and eight, so I'll start to remit it now.
The one thing though, that, you know, the big, the big point here as well is that you
don't have that formal like, you know, bachelor degree or diploma or whatever it is.
(21:39):
It doesn't stop you being so successful.
You might be one of the most successful people that I know.
It's all on hard work, determination and clearly a passion for what you do.
Yeah.
I would say that and it's also, it's also going back to the vision and direction.
So if you get up in the morning, you know what you want to do.
Like it's easy to grind through getting tons of hard, boring, whatever junk's done and
(22:05):
out of the way because you have a purpose and a passion for what you're doing.
So that I would say is the, what helps give me motivation to get all that done.
I mean, one of the things I'm currently working on is a little bit new of an experience, but
I'm going through my series seven 66 certification or licenses for wealth management.
(22:34):
And so I have my series seven exam actually scheduled for Friday this week.
So that will be around the corner here.
So by the time this gets published or whatever it probably I'll be done with that.
So and then I'm off to the 66 and the recently and last couple of years added an SI exam
(22:56):
at the front end of both of those.
So I did that a month or two ago.
But yeah, it's that I would say it's just a desire to learn, desire to continue growing
and continue serving my clients holistically because the more we can provide to them completing
the circle, I would say of client service.
(23:18):
So we help a client get started, form their business.
We help them with their accounting then and doing their bookkeeping and we help them with
their tax preparation, but it doesn't just stop with tax preparation goes in a tax planning
and tax strategy.
That's where we can help them save their money.
So we have them grow their money and then save their money.
And then what do we do with that?
(23:40):
Well, wealth management is kind of the missing piece in the circle that we can help them
save or grow their money then after they've earned their money.
But in that category, what I'm actually the most passionate about in there is helping
people think through where and how they invest, not just areas of maximizing greatest ROI
(24:04):
or return on investment, but more of a concept of thinking.
So there's concepts of values based investing, VBI, there's for Christians, there might
be BRI, which is Biblically Responsible Investing or others, maybe it's ESG, environmental,
(24:25):
social governance, whatever, those kind of categories and they're not the same categories.
But I'm very passionate about those types of things and helping people think about the
power of investing and where they invest because think of all the good that we can accomplish
(24:46):
with the money that we've been blessed with.
And it's not just about us, it's about blessing others with what we've been given.
And investing is a huge opportunity to do that.
Think about if all the businesses have failed because they can't get off the ground with
cash flow and all the good things that could revolutionize the world, cancer could be cured,
(25:13):
lots of different things could be solved if there was investors willing to step forward
and put the money into these different companies.
So all kinds of incredible opportunities out there and it's just about looking for the
best companies that are actually contributing to the common good of society rather than
(25:34):
those that are extracting good from society.
So those companies are the ones that I'm concerned about, but there are tremendous opportunities
on the other end to do incredible good.
Yeah, this is what is now March, so a couple of six months ago I started hearing about
all these different categories and how there are specific wealth firms out there right
(25:58):
now that that's all they do.
They figure out how to help people and a lot of the times they're either the person's
full advisor or their partner with a bigger advisory firm.
They're like, hey, they have a percentage of the money that they want to put to this
portion and these specialists come in that understand it and able to vet that it's really
trying to do good and not just like some face for a sweatshop or anything like that.
(26:19):
It's very, very intriguing and something I've been interested in reading up on a lot and
I shouldn't be surprised that this is something that Caleb is clearly finding interesting
and a place that is close to his heart because he is an incredible person and giving back
to the community and giving so much of his time to important causes is a lot of what
(26:41):
I find inspiring about Caleb.
So should we just use this as a segue and talk to us about some of your outreach work
that you do?
Sure, that'd be fine.
So I, back in 2013, I took a trip down to Haiti.
This I think is where you're interested in hearing.
It's a good starting point.
There's other opportunities too but that trip was an incredible trip.
(27:06):
It was to learn, I'd known about a program.
It was called Assault Program that stands for shared accountability, lending and teaching
and I traveled there to learn about this program.
It was with a group of other accountants and they were just seeking input and advice and
opinions on how to make the program better and it was also to get excitement for donors,
(27:34):
whatever, to try to encourage growth in the program.
In that trip, they, one of them pulled me aside and he's like, hey, actually a couple
different people pulled me aside, different organizations down there and they're like,
hey, we need a bookkeeper.
Can you come work for us?
And I'm like, no, no, no, no.
I kept telling everybody no because that wasn't what I wasn't wanting to move down there.
(27:58):
I wasn't wanting to, I mean, I maybe thought about it briefly but it wasn't, it wasn't
what my passion was.
And so, but over time, after I came home then they, the Assault Program continued reaching
out to me and so I talked to him about it a little bit and we kind of made plans for
a trip and then that kind of felt through.
(28:18):
And then later they had an incident where there was an issue with one of their employees
had taken some money.
It was a small amount in USD but a large amount in their economy and that really broke the
trust of the people that Assault Program was trying to serve.
(28:38):
And so they were like, hey, we really need to do something better.
So I'm like, okay, maybe that created fire underneath my seat, whatever.
And I'm like, okay, I need to go.
So I need to start helping, whatever.
And so I scheduled a trip for May of 2015, so a year and a half later and they, from
(29:00):
there I helped them get set up with QuickBooks and just did a lot of the normal stuff that
I work with businesses throughout the US on.
And it was a very exciting trip because it was a way that I could give forward to others
based on what I had been blessed with.
And through that though, I learned so many different things that changed and revolutionized
(29:24):
the way that I think about the world and think about the work that I do.
And really it's about categorizing need into different buckets or categories.
So there's what's called crisis or chronic poverty or crisis or critical poverty and
then there's chronic poverty on the other end.
(29:44):
And the crisis or critical is really like the result of a disaster or an earthquake
or a tsunami or a hurricane or war or famine.
It's typically something that happens to you, not something that it's been just bad decisions
or whatever, but chronic poverty is typically bad decisions that have been generational.
(30:09):
So grandparents were in the same boat, parents were in the same boat, we're in the same boat
today.
And so responding to those two different types of poverty are completely different types
of responses or should be different responses.
And far too often we treat them the same way by accidents, just because it's easy to respond
(30:32):
to the critical or crisis poverty.
We can see right in front of us what the need is.
They need food, they need clothing, they need water, they need shelter, they need whatever
the case may be.
They need protection from war, they need maybe the refugees fleeing from something, they
need housing, whatever the case may be.
(30:54):
There's a need that we can see right in front of us.
But what's far more difficult is a chronic because the need on the surface appears almost
identical.
But behind the curtain when you dig underneath the surface, it's far more complex.
And a lot of times it's a lack of education, it's a lack of knowledge, it's a lack of
(31:19):
experience, it's a lack of hope.
Ultimately it is the biggest barrier to them for success is they have no hope.
They feel like the system is against them, they feel like they can't succeed.
So it's more of an emotional or a psychological or even a spiritual need that individuals
(31:42):
have in chronic poverty.
And so thinking about that, that's very true of a lot of the different types of work that
we do on a day-to-day basis.
So I think there at Scaling, Nuitza gave a couple of different examples of different
types of situations and categorizing these needs and how we can actually dig underneath
(32:04):
the surface and try to analyze and dig into what the root cause of the problem is.
So one of my favorites is as an example is I might have a business client that is struggling
with cash flow and they reach out to me because they can't make payroll next week and they
need a short-term loan.
(32:25):
Well, there's great apps out there, I mean that you can get a loan through QuickBooks
Capital or get a term loan through smart business loans or finance an invoice or fund there
or there's dozens of apps that will help with that problem.
Well, and that may be the ultimate thing that I do, but if I stop right there, am I actually
(32:50):
hurting or am I helping the problem?
And a lot of people would initially respond that you're helping because you're solving
the need that's right in front of you.
But most cases I'm probably actually hurting rather than helping.
And if I try to understand that, if I actually help them, maybe yes, I do help them get access
(33:12):
to the financing right now, but I'm going to try to solve why are they in this situation
to begin with.
And that's digging underneath the surface to maybe it's a people problem, maybe they
don't have the right people on their team and they've got way too much payroll costs
or maybe they're not producing enough as a company so they're not bringing enough revenue
(33:33):
to cover their costs or maybe it's a pricing problem.
Maybe they're doing all good work and etc.
But they haven't raised the prices in 10 years and costs go up over time.
That's what inflation is, what we've experienced the last five years at a much higher level.
So a lot of times you got to dig into that and try to understand that in a lot more detail.
(33:57):
So it's an area that there's not one answer that fits all solutions.
It's really an analytical experience.
You got to work with the individual, work with the business to try to find what the
root cause is.
And that becomes now our target to try to solve for that root cause problem instead of just
(34:20):
treating the surface symptoms.
So through that, I mean I've learned so much and there's so much that I've inspired now
to help other accountants and other business individuals to learn ways to give forward
to others too.
Through my experiences, I would say it's revolutionized the way that I do work, the why for why I
(34:43):
do work because it's a way to help others and give back to and give forward to others
just like I was blessed and encouraged.
I mean, I think about all the individuals that have invested into me, Titans of the
accounting space like Joe Woodard and like Doug's leader and I mean, I could go down
(35:07):
the laundry list of everybody that has invested in me and I look out and I think, man, I've
barely touched anybody comparatively to everybody that's invested in me.
So I've got tremendous amounts of work to do to continue giving forward to others.
I want you all this to be really incredible and inspiring and Caleb that I mean that story
(35:28):
is amazing.
The analogy hard but forms into the way you do business the way you help people.
I mean, it's such a great lesson for a lot of accountants, consultants out there.
We're always sort of so focused on let's just like, you know, put a patchwork on this just
fix it, just keep moving, just get the boat instead of like, let's pull the boat out the
water, let's repair what it is, we don't keep getting that patch, you know, just fix it
(35:49):
going on.
I mean, we see it in our business all the time, like, oh, we're running out of cash.
Like, yeah, you are selling wine at no margin.
You can't do it, right?
Like, we got to fix that either reduce your cost, increase your prices or discontinue that
line.
Like you've got to make a change.
Also, you're going to be the same problem.
It's a good way to think about trying to try to help people solve their problem in the
long term rather than just patch it.
(36:11):
And obviously you can patch it along the way and you should patch it along the way because
especially in a payroll situation, you don't want people to go unpaid, but help them fix
it.
Like that's what we should be doing.
That's where the value at is at the end of the day.
That's ultimately, in my opinion, that's ultimately what advisory work is.
That's the buzz in our industry is switching from compliance to advisory.
(36:35):
And really advisory is an area where you're not just doing a tax return, you're not just
doing a bank reconciliation, you're not just doing a financial statement or whatever.
You are trying to help the business in an unscripted way, help them understand how to
(36:56):
solve their problems, how to solve the root problems, not just treating the surface of
them.
Yeah.
And I would say to that, start to learn to really listen to your clients.
Don't just quickly, you know, don't just like, you know, like, you know, you're not
like, half year their words and start solving the problem.
Really listen to what they're saying to you.
Because 99% of the time they're going to tell you what the problem is, but you actually
(37:19):
have to listen like, it's in between the lines, right?
There's a little bit of, I don't know, embarrassment that things are working out.
So they're trying to tell you, they're trying to get the help if you need to really learn
to listen, pay attention and answer the questions that they're really asking you if you want
to be a good advisor.
Caleb, can you give me some insight into what your day to day looks like?
Well, right now it's get up and study.
(37:40):
And, and etc.
But my normal day to day is, I mean, I typically get up about 540 or something in the morning
and get ready in the morning, take an hour or so.
And I typically listen to listen to Bible in the morning.
And then I maybe listen to some other podcasts, maybe get ready for the night.
(38:03):
I have a pretty slow morning.
And then around 730 or something start work for the day.
I typically, not every day, but it typically still go into the office every day.
Most of our team works in person.
And so the, so typically I would be at the office by 730, sometimes earlier than that,
(38:28):
sometimes later depends on the day.
And then during the day, like I probably, I mean, I probably did everything the wrong
way.
But I look at my email, clear out my email at the beginning of the day, I respond as
much stuff as I can forward as much stuff as I can to other team members to try to have
(38:51):
them work on the problems or items that that come up and inside of there.
I look at my schedule for the day, try to see what meetings I have for the day.
And then kind of map out what I'm going to try to get done for the day.
And then periodically, at least once a week, I try to think about the bigger pictures,
(39:13):
things that I really need to accomplish it.
Since I'm in the tax business, our work is kind of cyclical.
I have a built-in calendar that I've got certain things that need to be done during
times of the year.
So my developmental and experimental phase of business is typically May through November,
(39:36):
not December through April.
And so if I am wanting to go learn a new item, if I'm wanting to try out a new software application,
if I'm wanting to do any of that type of stuff, I try to get all that done during the May to
November timeframe.
(39:56):
And so that way I'm not upsetting the application during the tax season.
Beyond that, like, typically, I mean, I probably work too much too, but I, most days, I'd wrap
up six or so in the afternoon or evening.
And then a lot of times I have social events and things in the evening with our church group
(40:21):
or whatever, I have a lot of guests at my house through the year.
So typically at least not the last couple of months because I've been studying, but
it's more so.
But most of the time I would have guests at my house at least once a week for either a
Bible study or a guest after a church on Sunday, whatever, for me or whatever, or barbecue
(40:47):
on Saturday night or ping pong tournament or lots of that type of stuff.
So yeah, I like to work inside of our community and give forward in that way too.
Community is important to you?
Absolutely.
Obviously, you do a lot of the church and then a lot of the accounting community as
(41:09):
well.
I know you're one of the most beloved people in that accounting community.
I mean, what do you get from the community?
What value does that to life?
It inspires me.
And seeing others grow, seeing others change, I mean, that's powerful.
(41:31):
And I feel like back to my earlier comment, so many have invested in me in different ways.
I have a responsibility to give back to others too.
It's not just a, I don't know, I feel like it today and I don't feel like it tomorrow,
whatever.
(41:51):
It's like all of my life should be giving forward or giving to others.
I mean, of course, in giving, there's an element of giving that is, when you give, you get
something in return for it, almost every case.
It's not like you're just depleting yourself.
(42:11):
I mean, every time I've ever given it any way I've ever given, I've got back so much
more than I've ever given.
And so, like, I hate to do this, but I'm going to pick on something I saw on X last week,
which is someone made the comment about community groups starting up and how it's a split focus
(42:38):
of time and attention and if you're so successful, just add into your business and grow your business.
And I saw it and I quote tweeted it and I'm like, hey, sometimes it's not just about ourselves.
Sometimes it's about giving to others and it doesn't have to be that we're trying to
(42:58):
make profit over here and make profit over here and we're just trying to do all this
stuff.
And I'm like, hey, I've experienced something that has revolutionized my world and I want
to revolutionize your world too so that we can all succeed.
There's a saying that arising tide lifts all boats, whatever.
(43:21):
It's very true.
I think our world today is very different than the world of 40, 50 years ago, where a lot
more was seen as competition.
And so if we are competing with each other, like of course, I don't want to give to you
(43:41):
if we're competing with each other because I want to protect what's mine.
But if I think that by giving to you, I'm going to help you and by so doing, you're
going to help me in return.
Of course, I want to lift everybody and so many times that's been true in my life.
My career is by giving to others that give back to me.
(44:05):
Yeah, 100% career.
I know I freak out some of my competitors because I'm always open to share thoughts and
send referrals their way if it doesn't like, and they just don't get it.
They don't understand it.
And people are wondering about the giving portion and the receiving portion and go read
the book, Go Givers.
The last rule in there is the law of receptivity.
And that is being open to receiving gifts as well.
(44:27):
You can't just continuously give.
You'll eventually get depleted.
Caleb, you mentioned earlier that your parents taught you to be a leader rather than a follower.
What does that mean to you?
So I think it can be taken in different ways that sometimes is not healthy because sometimes
you should be a follower too.
Not everybody can be, I mean, just, I mean, today's election day, whatever.
(44:50):
Not everybody can be president.
Not everybody can be whatever that sometimes we have to follow.
And I think it's good to learn the experience of being a follower too.
That's obeying the laws that exist, obeying, doing the right thing, et cetera.
But on the other end, it is good to be aspirational and to set forward a path and a vision for
(45:17):
where you want to go.
And that, I think, is the gist of leading is setting a target, having a vision and having
the mission purpose to get there and inspiring others along the way to come alongside you
and accomplish that goal.
Love it.
(45:38):
What advice would you have to others for them to be better leaders in their business and
their communities?
If you don't have a vision, go back and search your inner being and see where you come.
Joe Woodard says pretty regularly, vision is the intersection of your higher principle
(45:59):
that you follow and the good that you want to see in the world and what you're uniquely
gifted to do.
So you combine those three things together and that is the makings or the shaping of
your vision.
So really think about what your vision is and hone in on it and then go full bore on
(46:20):
that.
Sometimes the other thing about vision is vision can be divisive too.
And we don't like to think of it that way, but vision, if you're just accepting of everything
and anything, then going back to depletion, you're going to get depleted because you don't
have the bandwidth to be able to do everything to all people at all times.
(46:44):
But if you have vision and you and you say, we're going to accomplish X and whatever X
is, we're going to go all in on that.
That means sometimes you might have a team member that's not a good fit for X.
Sometimes you have clients that are not a good fit for X.
(47:05):
Sometimes you have products or services that you're offering that are not a good fit for
whatever X is.
And so if you hone in on X, it can be divisive, but it can also be a way that you can go much
deeper, much faster by focusing on what your X is.
Incredible.
For the young people out there that are listening and maybe contemplating becoming accountants,
(47:29):
what advice do you have for them?
Oh boy, that's a good one.
I love that one.
So I would say, I mean, if you are contemplating it, what I would do is talk to accountants,
come to, I mean, one of the best ways is go to an accounting conference and just learn.
(47:50):
And you would get inspired at the accounting conference.
You might get overwhelmed, but it's a way to shape your opinion of what's actually happening
in the real world and the upcoming, what you can be as an accountant.
The other thing that I would say is if you're actually serious about going down the path,
(48:12):
get certified as a QuickBooks Pro Advisor, as a zero advisor, whatever path you're going
to go there, learn your products very well.
We'll provide you so many opportunities to expand your horizons and then get involved
in communities that exist too.
(48:32):
So there's various Facebook groups and LinkedIn groups and start joining those groups and
learning from others.
Follow communities on X, whatever, what you speak on Twitter and start going to conferences
again.
There's a great way to build relationships.
(48:53):
So that's where, I mean, I know we had connected on LinkedIn, but for me, I really didn't know
you until you came up with me after my session at Scaling the Heights.
But ever since then, I feel like I, I mean, I don't know you terribly well, but I feel
like I know you at least in part now.
Because after that, I looked you up online and I'm like, hey, who is this guy that I,
(49:15):
I mean, and so I will, whenever I see you in the future at conferences, I'm always
going to say hi and I'm going to try to understand what's, what's happened in your world.
But that's the power of community and the power of learning together.
Like last question, tell us something about you that's a little interesting that you
(49:38):
haven't shared already.
The young accountants, you know, the person that's out there helping make it a better
world.
But what else can you tell us about us to sort of give us insight into care the person
is?
Why?
So I already said that I have seven siblings.
So that's one thing that a lot of people, I mean, may not know.
(49:59):
I'm not married, not dormant again.
So that does provide me the capability to do a lot of things that maybe I wouldn't be
able to do if I was.
I'm not saying I won't, I will always be in that state, but that's where I'm at today.
Other things about me, boy, bought my house, bought my first house, my only house I ever
bought when I was 26.
(50:20):
That was that was a really fun thing.
And the reminder you guys, he lives in California where this is a massive achievement.
Just after I was just after I turned 26, so I started the process when I was 25.
So that was fun.
And then let's see here.
I've traveled internationally.
(50:43):
Let's see here 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 times.
And I love to travel internationally.
I haven't done anything this year, but I hope to next year again, last year at the end
of the year, I went to Qatar and Bangladesh.
So that was both of those were fun places to go to with other things.
(51:06):
Perfect.
Thanks for sharing so much, Caleb.
I really appreciate it and really learned so much from you today on pretty conversation
we like to end with five rapid fire questions.
If you're ready, I can get them going.
What is your dream vacation?
Why?
That sounds like an easy question, but it's kind of a hard question because really my
I don't have a what would be considered a normal vacation probably in mind, but I would
(51:31):
love to visit every single of the 27 28 countries that the salt program operates in.
And I hope to accomplish that someday.
That sounds like a great way to spend time.
Number two, do you prefer audio books or paper books?
So very much so paper books, but I have been growing in the audiobook realm and particularly
(51:58):
what is a dividing line in my and this might be a crazy dividing line, but when the author
reads their own book, I can listen to the audio book.
If it's someone else reading the audio book is really hard.
So pick like John Maxwell.
I've listened to two of his books, one that he read and one that another person read.
(52:24):
World of difference and in the and the learnings that I picked up like when I listened to him
reading his book, it was like I was sitting and listening to him talk to me face to face.
And it was just him.
You have all the voice inflections of the person.
So don't still paperback or hardback.
Hardback could be my choice, but but I mean, I'm growing on audio books.
(52:48):
So perfect.
And number three, what is the quality you appreciate in a good friend?
Boy, I would say passion.
Good one.
A favorite book you can recommend everybody reads favorite book.
Okay, this one's this one's a little bit interesting, but it's an old book.
It's a it's a fiction.
I don't typically read a lot of fiction, but is one called ishmo.
(53:10):
It's by an author feed in South Worth.
It's a I think it was written in the either late 1700s or early 1800s, but it's a fascinating
book.
There's a sequel to it called self raised to that they're just incredible books.
I'll have to go find it.
(53:31):
Last question.
What was your favorite childhood meal?
Favorite childhood meal.
So one that was pro I think this is outside of just our my grown up environment, but we
called it Hawaiian meal.
So it's like croutons and then rice and then gravy and then there's like typically chicken
(53:54):
and then there's coconut and some other.
I mean, lettuce and cilantro and celery and a whole bunch of other toppings on it.
But yeah, kind of like kind of like straw hats if you've ever had straw hats.
Okay, maybe that's another that's another one of them.
So that that's like chili on top of chips, whatever.
(54:16):
And then you have cheese and lettuce and I mean, hot sauce and salsa and whatever on
top of it.
But probably those two meals were two of my favorites.
They both sound delicious.
They sound like winners.
Taylor, I appreciate the time today.
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me on.
And with that, we end another proto conversations.
Thank you for joining us in this journey of learning and inspiration.
(54:38):
Today we've gained insight from our guests and taken another step towards understanding
the adverse tapestry of leadership in business and accounting.
Remember each conversation is a step towards the positive transformation of business leaders.
We hope our discussions have given you valuable takeaways.
Remember that each conversation is a step towards the positive transformation of business
leaders.
We hope our discussion has given you valuable takeaways to apply in your own career and
(55:01):
life.
Don't forget to subscribe to Proto Conversations on YouTube and Spotify so you never miss an
episode.
We also love to hear your thoughts and experiences so connect with me on social media channels.
I'm most active on LinkedIn and would love you to join the conversation.
Join us next time for more engaging stories, advice and conversations that matter.
Until then, keep striving for excellence and embrace and growth.
Thank you for listening, be kind and goodbye from Proto Conversations.
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