September 17, 2025 • 16 mins
The Pre Columbian Discovery Of America By The Northmen With Translations From The Icelandic Sagas"" by B.F. De Costa is a historical book that explores the possibility of the Northmen, or Vikings, discovering America before Christopher Columbus. The book presents evidence from Icelandic sagas and other historical documents that suggest the Vikings may have explored and settled in North America around the year 1000. The author provides translations of several sagas that describe the Viking voyages and encounters with the indigenous people of the region. The book also includes maps and illustrations to support the author's arguments. Overall, ""The Pre Columbian Discovery Of America By The Northmen With Translations From The Icelandic Sagas"" is a fascinating read for anyone interested in the history of the Americas and the Vikings' role in it.This scarce antiquarian book is a facsimile reprint of the old original and may contain some imperfections such as library marks and notations. Because we believe this work is culturally important, we have made it available as part of our commitment for protecting, preserving, and promoting the world's literature in affordable, high quality, modern editions, that are true to their original work.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/quantum-akashic-network--6730906/support.
Thank you for Listening
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/quantum-akashic-network--6730906/support.
Thank you for Listening
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, get ready to explore a world before Columbus.
Vikings voyages pre Columbian America were diving into all of
that in this deep dive, specifically some excerpts from the
pre Columbian Discovery of America by the Northmen. And let
me tell you this is well, it's not your average
history book.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It really isn't. It's not just about who you know,
step foot on this continent first, but more about what
these accounts, what they can tell us about the people,
their world, how we see history even.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah, it really broadens the perspective. And speaking of which,
one of the first things that kind of jumped out
at me was how the book it mentions right off
the bat that the Vikings they might not have been
the first to cross the Atlantic. We're talking like Phoenicians.
Even these little hints about Christian missionaries reaching the Americas
way before Columbus even sets sail. There's even talk about
(00:50):
these picture records in Mexico that have been lost, like
imagine that.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
It's certainly it's a very intriguing thought. And while the
evidence it might be, you know, what it really does
is highlight that the Atlantic Ocean it wasn't always seen
as this impossible thing to cross this barrier. It kind
of opens up you know, possibility.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Oh totally. And speaking of possibilities, did you uh did
you catch that part where the book mentions King Juba
the Second sending out his navigators and they reached the
Canary Islands and they find these like giant lizards. Can
you imagine talk about like a prehistoric encounter.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It really it captures the imagination. And whilst you know
those exact details, we might not be able to confirm
all of them, what it does tell us is that
people in this time they were exploring, they were coming
face to face with the unknown, and then encountering these
new lands, these creatures. It wasn't just fantasy. It was
very real to them.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, it was their reality. Okay, so we've teased a
few other explorers here, but let's get to like the
real stars of this deep dive, the Vikings, or as
their book calls them, the Northmen. And I got to say,
I was struck by how the book really pushes back
against that stereotypical image, you know, the savage raiders.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Absolutely, the book presents a much more i'd say, a
more nuanced view of the Northmen. They were far more
sophisticated than just you know, brute force. They were incredibly
skilled shipbuilders, navigators that even had a very rich literary
tradition as well.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, and speaking of shipbuilding, like whoa that description of
King olof Ship, That thing was massive. It really makes
you think about the skill involved, the knowledge they had
to build something that could even cross the ocean let alone,
you know, centuries before Columbus.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
It is pretty remarkable. And their skills they weren't limited
to just shipbuilding either. We're talking navigating by the stars,
complex trade networks that spanned continents, and their sagas, their stories,
those are compared to the likes of Homer, even Herodotus.
These weren't just you know, campfire tales. They were carefully
crafted writers. Their history, their lineage, their identity, it's all
(02:51):
woven into those.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Stories, which makes them even more valuable as historical sources.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
They weren't just like spinning myths. These were their lives,
their journeys. And speaking of journeys, before we even get
to America, the Northmen they had already gone and established
this whole thriving colony in Greenland. It's a part of history,
I think is often kind of like overshattered, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It is? And it's a tragic story too. The Carny
eventually vanished, but during its time, it really was this
like crucial stepping stone. The book even mentions that the
Greenlanders they were undertaking expeditions that rivaled in terms of
reaching the northern latitudes, explorations that wouldn't happen for centuries.
Like we're talking about expeditions that matched what Perry did,
and that wasn't until eighteen twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
It's crazy, like they were pushing the boundaries of exploration
way before what we typically think of as the age
of exploration. Makes you wonder what else is out there
still waiting to be discovered from that time period. But
for now, let's maybe uh set our sites back on America,
because this all starts with well, a bit of an accident,
wouldn't you say?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
You're talking about Beyond Heracle cent the accidental Explorer.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, exactly. He's trying to, you know, reach his father
in Greenland, gets blown up course, and he ends up
potentially being the very first Norseman to lay eyes on
mainland North America. It's incredible, it is right, Like, just
imagine caught in the storm, your way off course and boom,
there it is this land nobody you know has ever
seen before. And what's really cool is that the book
(04:18):
it actually tries to retrace his journey, matching his descriptions
to actual places on the North American coast. Makes you
wonder if you could like follow in his wake today
just based on those descriptions.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
That's a fascinating thought. But you know, as with any
historical account, especially one like this, we have to be cautious.
It's an incredible story, but it is just one piece
of a much larger puzzle.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Oh for sure. But Biarn's little accidental discovery, well, it
kind of worked the imagination of another norseman, Leif Ericson,
son of Eric the Red. Now leif he didn't get
blown off course, he set out with a purpose find
this new land that Biarren had stumbled across, and find
it he did. He even gave it a name, Vinland,
and Vinland.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
It wasn't just some empty, icy wasteland either, the way
the book describes it. It was a land full of resources, grapes,
wild wheat. It really captures the imagination and sparks. This
dream of a new life across.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
The sea sounds almost idyllic, no wonder. Other people wanted
to follow and Leaf's footsteps, including a man named Thorfinn,
Karlsefni and Thorfinn. He wasn't just interested in, you know,
like exploring villain. He wanted to settle there permanently. We're
talking families, livestock, the whole nine yards. This wasn't just
a quick trip. This was a full blown colonization attempt.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
And this is where the Sagas truly come to life.
We get this window into the lives of these early colonists.
We hear about the struggles they face, their encounters with
the native people, the Scrailings, and even the conflicts that
arose within their own community.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, the book doesn't shy away from those details, that's
for sure. Like there's one account that mentions Carl Sefni's
group that had over one hundred people in it. That's
a serious undertaking. But yeah, it definitely wasn't all smooth sailing.
Harsh winters, those encounters with the Scrailings, which were definitely tense,
and then you've got you know, arguments and rivalries within
(06:10):
the colony itself.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
It's a good reminder that even in a new world,
you bring your humanity with you and all the complications
that come with it. But you know, amidst all that,
there's this other fascinating figure in this story.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Oh you mean Gudrid Thorfinn Karlsefni's wife. Talk about a
woman who lived an extraordinary life. I mean, imagine that journey,
going from Iceland to Greenland, then to Vinland, where, by
the way, her son Snorri was born, so like the
first European child born in North America. And then to
top it all off, later in her life she goes
on a pilgrimage to Rome. Talk about an adventurous spirit.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
It really challenges our assumptions, doesn't it, the idea that
women in this era were simply passive players. Gudrid's story
it shows a woman actively shaping her own destiny, traveling
across the known world. It's remarkable, it really is. You know,
we often think of exploration, pilgrimage that of most men
right in this era, but Goodrid's story really turns that
(07:03):
idea on its head. Speaks to the spirit of the time.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I think it totally does. And speaking of challenging assumptions.
We can't forget those encounters with the scrailings. The book
it paints a pretty, I don't know, kind of tense
picture of those interactions, right, like that detail about the
scraalings that they basically just like dismiss this metal ax
that the Norsemen have after it breaks on a stone.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah, it's a small detail, but it's it really speaks
volumes when you think about it. You know, you have
these two cultures and their values are different. The way
they interact with the world totally different. Like the Norsemen
with their iron tools and weapons, they might have seen,
you know, at first glance, more technologically advanced, but to
the Scrailings, a tool that breaks that easily might have
(07:51):
seen more trouble than it was worth. You know, they
had their own technologies, their own materials, a whole different
way of understanding I think the natural world around them.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
It's almost like a metaphor or for those early encounters,
isn't it Two worlds they collide, each with their own
their own ways of life, their own uh I guess
understanding of how things work, how the world works. It
makes you think about how those misunderstandings those cultural misunderstandings.
They probably played a part in why the Norse settlements
and Vinland they ultimately didn't survive.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, that's a really important point and the source it
does hint at these misunderstandings, misinterpretations, and ultimately, you know, conflict.
It's this reminder that communication it's about so much more
than just words, especially when you have cultures as different
as as the Norse and the indigenous people of North America. Imagine, right,
(08:39):
You're trying to establish a settlement, brand new land, the
terrain's unfamiliar, resources are limited, and then on top of
all that, you've got to figure out how to how
to communicate, how to coexist with people who see the
world in a completely different way.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, as a whole other layer of complexity to the story.
And speaking of complexity, what about the ultimate fate of
those Norse settlements. We have these, like it's incredible sagas, right,
detailed accounts of voyages settlements. But the Northmen they didn't
actually establish a lasting presence in North America. Why do
you think that is?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
It's a question that historians have been wrestling with for ages, really,
and like any good historical mystery, there's no easy answer,
is there. The sources they point to a whole bunch
of factors. We talked about the challenges of communicating across cultures,
and of course the conflict with the Scrailings, but the
Sagas they also highlight the disputes, the rivalries that were
(09:32):
happening within the Norse community itself.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, it's that old saying, right, you can choose your friends,
but you can't choose your family or in this case,
your fellow colonists. The source even mentioned some pretty intense
like power struggles, right, like the story of Fredus rich Study.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Ugh ah, yes, Fradus her story, it really exemplifies how
personal ambition, these rivalries they could undermine even the most
ambitious endeavors. The Sagas they portray her as a pretty
ruthless figure, incredibly ambitious, someone willing to do whatever it
took to come out on top. It's this reminder that
even in this new world with all its promise, human nature,
(10:11):
you know, for better or worse, it always seems to
find a way.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
It's a very human story, isn't it. These weren't just
these like larger than life heroes, real people with flaws,
with ambitions, and these conflicts that just just played out
against this huge, you know, epic adventure exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
And I think that's what makes their story so fascinating,
so relatable even But we also have to remember the
context here. This wasn't the age of European colonialism as
we might think of it later on the Norse. They
weren't setting out to conquer and claim these vast territories
with the same I don't know, sense of entitlement ruthlessness
that we see in later centuries. Their goals were different,
(10:47):
more focused on exploration, on trade and maybe establishing these
smaller settlements to make use of resources.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
So less about like large scale colonization and more about
like testing the waters, getting a foothold exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Were drawn to what Vinland offered the timber for those
grapes we talked about. But to actually establish a colony,
a permanent one, one that could thrive, especially with the
limited resources, the climate, the tense relations with the native people,
we turned out to be a much bigger challenge than
perhaps they had initially anticipated.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, I mean it makes you appreciate the sheer scale
of what they were trying to do. Crossing the Atlantic
Ocean with you know, the technology they had back then,
trying to make a life for themselves in this totally
new world. I mean that took guts. It really it
adds these these new dimensions to that phrase. Right, the
Vikings discovered America, it was it was more than that,
wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
It really was. It wasn't just a matter of you know,
planting a flag and claiming a continent. It was this
complex mix of exploration, ambition. You have these cultural clashes,
and maybe in a way they were a bit ahead
of their time when it comes to large scale colonization.
And the fact that you know, all these centuries later,
was still taught talking about their story. I think it
(12:01):
speaks to the power of the sagas, these these incredible tapestries,
this history, legend, cultural memory all woven together.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And these sagas, they weren't just content with, you know,
with telling the stories of Greenland and Vinland. Remember that
whole thing about Great Ireland, that mysterious place. It's like
like a loose thread at the end of this amazing tapestry,
it hints at even more voyages, even more encounters, like
there are all these other chapters to this, this whole
Transatlantic saga.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
You know, isn't that some you think you have a
handle on this, this whole early period of exploration, and
then something like like this Great Ireland it pops up
and it just throws open all these new doors.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
It's exciting, It really is so so for anyone who
might've just joined us. What exactly do the sagas tell
us about this Great Ireland?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Well, from what the source says, it sounds like it
was a land that explorers might have reached even before
the Norse voyages we've been talking about. And it's described
as a place inhabited by get this, white people, but
they spoke Irish.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Wait, hold on white people speaking Irish and North America.
And this is like even before the Vikings get there.
It's like, I don't know, It's like a historical riddle
wrapped in an enigma. What do we I mean, how
do we even begin to understand that?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
That's the beauty of it, isn't it? It forces us to,
I don't know, put on our historian hats and really
think about the possibilities. The source even tries to connect
Great Ireland to this norseman are Marson who sailed to
Vinland the they got blown.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Off course and ends up in Great Ireland. Is that
what you're thinking.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Well, the sagas they offer some clues, sure, but as
we've said before, they're a blend of fact and legend
and you know, oral tradition. It's like trying to put
together this puzzle, but some pieces are missing, and then
you've got some pieces that might be from a whole
different puzzle entirely. Got to be careful, use some common sense,
but also.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
You know, keep it open mind, right, So Great Ireland
could be this real place, is actual pre Norse settlement
right there in North America, Or it could be I
don't know, a misunderstanding or stories getting mixed up, or
even you know, totally made up. But that's what's so
cool about history, right, It's full of these unanswered questions,
these mysteries that just they keep pulling us back in,
even after all these centuries.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I completely agree the search for Great Ireland. I think
it reminds us that history isn't static. It's not just
dates in a book. It's this living process of discovery.
What we think we know today it could be challenged
tomorrow or completely rewritten by a new archaeological find, or
a fresh look at an old text, or hey, even
just like in our case, you know, taking a deep
(14:32):
dive into a forgotten saga.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Right, the more you learn, the more you realize how
much you don't know. It's humbling really, So speaking of learning,
what are some of the I don't know, the big
takeaways you're hoping our listener is walking away with from
this steep dive.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Well, more than anything, I hope it sparks some I
don't know, some sense of wonder about this whole period
of history, the story of the Norse in America. It's
not just about you know, Viking sailing around. It makes
us really challenge what we think we know about the past,
how we view those early encounters between cultures, and I
think too it helps us to appreciate the human side
(15:07):
of it all. These weren't just names on a page,
but real people living, struggling, you know, experiencing all of
that against this incredible backdrop.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
And let's not forget, never underestimate a good story. These sagas,
they've been passed down for generations, and they take us
back in time, introduce us to these amazing characters, and yeah,
they leave us with some mystery, some things we might
never fully figure out.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
And that's a good place to leave it, I think,
with that renewed sense of curiosity about the past, the
thirst for more, you know, more stories, more discoveries, just
to keep digging deeper into who we are, where we
came from.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Well said so to everyone listening, thanks for coming along
on this deep dive into the world before Columbus. We
hope it's inspired you to keep exploring, to keep asking questions,
to keep uncovering those hidden chapters of history, and until
next time, keep searching for your own great Ireland, you know,
whatever that might be for you.
All right, get ready to explore a world before Columbus.
Vikings voyages pre Columbian America were diving into all of
that in this deep dive, specifically some excerpts from the
pre Columbian Discovery of America by the Northmen. And let
me tell you this is well, it's not your average
history book.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It really isn't. It's not just about who you know,
step foot on this continent first, but more about what
these accounts, what they can tell us about the people,
their world, how we see history even.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah, it really broadens the perspective. And speaking of which,
one of the first things that kind of jumped out
at me was how the book it mentions right off
the bat that the Vikings they might not have been
the first to cross the Atlantic. We're talking like Phoenicians.
Even these little hints about Christian missionaries reaching the Americas
way before Columbus even sets sail. There's even talk about
(00:50):
these picture records in Mexico that have been lost, like
imagine that.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
It's certainly it's a very intriguing thought. And while the
evidence it might be, you know, what it really does
is highlight that the Atlantic Ocean it wasn't always seen
as this impossible thing to cross this barrier. It kind
of opens up you know, possibility.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Oh totally. And speaking of possibilities, did you uh did
you catch that part where the book mentions King Juba
the Second sending out his navigators and they reached the
Canary Islands and they find these like giant lizards. Can
you imagine talk about like a prehistoric encounter.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It really it captures the imagination. And whilst you know
those exact details, we might not be able to confirm
all of them, what it does tell us is that
people in this time they were exploring, they were coming
face to face with the unknown, and then encountering these
new lands, these creatures. It wasn't just fantasy. It was
very real to them.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, it was their reality. Okay, so we've teased a
few other explorers here, but let's get to like the
real stars of this deep dive, the Vikings, or as
their book calls them, the Northmen. And I got to say,
I was struck by how the book really pushes back
against that stereotypical image, you know, the savage raiders.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Absolutely, the book presents a much more i'd say, a
more nuanced view of the Northmen. They were far more
sophisticated than just you know, brute force. They were incredibly
skilled shipbuilders, navigators that even had a very rich literary
tradition as well.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, and speaking of shipbuilding, like whoa that description of
King olof Ship, That thing was massive. It really makes
you think about the skill involved, the knowledge they had
to build something that could even cross the ocean let alone,
you know, centuries before Columbus.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
It is pretty remarkable. And their skills they weren't limited
to just shipbuilding either. We're talking navigating by the stars,
complex trade networks that spanned continents, and their sagas, their stories,
those are compared to the likes of Homer, even Herodotus.
These weren't just you know, campfire tales. They were carefully
crafted writers. Their history, their lineage, their identity, it's all
(02:51):
woven into those.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Stories, which makes them even more valuable as historical sources.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
They weren't just like spinning myths. These were their lives,
their journeys. And speaking of journeys, before we even get
to America, the Northmen they had already gone and established
this whole thriving colony in Greenland. It's a part of history,
I think is often kind of like overshattered, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It is? And it's a tragic story too. The Carny
eventually vanished, but during its time, it really was this
like crucial stepping stone. The book even mentions that the
Greenlanders they were undertaking expeditions that rivaled in terms of
reaching the northern latitudes, explorations that wouldn't happen for centuries.
Like we're talking about expeditions that matched what Perry did,
and that wasn't until eighteen twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
It's crazy, like they were pushing the boundaries of exploration
way before what we typically think of as the age
of exploration. Makes you wonder what else is out there
still waiting to be discovered from that time period. But
for now, let's maybe uh set our sites back on America,
because this all starts with well, a bit of an accident,
wouldn't you say?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
You're talking about Beyond Heracle cent the accidental Explorer.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, exactly. He's trying to, you know, reach his father
in Greenland, gets blown up course, and he ends up
potentially being the very first Norseman to lay eyes on
mainland North America. It's incredible, it is right, Like, just
imagine caught in the storm, your way off course and boom,
there it is this land nobody you know has ever
seen before. And what's really cool is that the book
(04:18):
it actually tries to retrace his journey, matching his descriptions
to actual places on the North American coast. Makes you
wonder if you could like follow in his wake today
just based on those descriptions.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
That's a fascinating thought. But you know, as with any
historical account, especially one like this, we have to be cautious.
It's an incredible story, but it is just one piece
of a much larger puzzle.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Oh for sure. But Biarn's little accidental discovery, well, it
kind of worked the imagination of another norseman, Leif Ericson,
son of Eric the Red. Now leif he didn't get
blown off course, he set out with a purpose find
this new land that Biarren had stumbled across, and find
it he did. He even gave it a name, Vinland,
and Vinland.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
It wasn't just some empty, icy wasteland either, the way
the book describes it. It was a land full of resources, grapes,
wild wheat. It really captures the imagination and sparks. This
dream of a new life across.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
The sea sounds almost idyllic, no wonder. Other people wanted
to follow and Leaf's footsteps, including a man named Thorfinn,
Karlsefni and Thorfinn. He wasn't just interested in, you know,
like exploring villain. He wanted to settle there permanently. We're
talking families, livestock, the whole nine yards. This wasn't just
a quick trip. This was a full blown colonization attempt.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
And this is where the Sagas truly come to life.
We get this window into the lives of these early colonists.
We hear about the struggles they face, their encounters with
the native people, the Scrailings, and even the conflicts that
arose within their own community.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, the book doesn't shy away from those details, that's
for sure. Like there's one account that mentions Carl Sefni's
group that had over one hundred people in it. That's
a serious undertaking. But yeah, it definitely wasn't all smooth sailing.
Harsh winters, those encounters with the Scrailings, which were definitely tense,
and then you've got you know, arguments and rivalries within
(06:10):
the colony itself.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
It's a good reminder that even in a new world,
you bring your humanity with you and all the complications
that come with it. But you know, amidst all that,
there's this other fascinating figure in this story.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Oh you mean Gudrid Thorfinn Karlsefni's wife. Talk about a
woman who lived an extraordinary life. I mean, imagine that journey,
going from Iceland to Greenland, then to Vinland, where, by
the way, her son Snorri was born, so like the
first European child born in North America. And then to
top it all off, later in her life she goes
on a pilgrimage to Rome. Talk about an adventurous spirit.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
It really challenges our assumptions, doesn't it, the idea that
women in this era were simply passive players. Gudrid's story
it shows a woman actively shaping her own destiny, traveling
across the known world. It's remarkable, it really is. You know,
we often think of exploration, pilgrimage that of most men
right in this era, but Goodrid's story really turns that
(07:03):
idea on its head. Speaks to the spirit of the time.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I think it totally does. And speaking of challenging assumptions.
We can't forget those encounters with the scrailings. The book
it paints a pretty, I don't know, kind of tense
picture of those interactions, right, like that detail about the
scraalings that they basically just like dismiss this metal ax
that the Norsemen have after it breaks on a stone.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah, it's a small detail, but it's it really speaks
volumes when you think about it. You know, you have
these two cultures and their values are different. The way
they interact with the world totally different. Like the Norsemen
with their iron tools and weapons, they might have seen,
you know, at first glance, more technologically advanced, but to
the Scrailings, a tool that breaks that easily might have
(07:51):
seen more trouble than it was worth. You know, they
had their own technologies, their own materials, a whole different
way of understanding I think the natural world around them.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
It's almost like a metaphor or for those early encounters,
isn't it Two worlds they collide, each with their own
their own ways of life, their own uh I guess
understanding of how things work, how the world works. It
makes you think about how those misunderstandings those cultural misunderstandings.
They probably played a part in why the Norse settlements
and Vinland they ultimately didn't survive.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, that's a really important point and the source it
does hint at these misunderstandings, misinterpretations, and ultimately, you know, conflict.
It's this reminder that communication it's about so much more
than just words, especially when you have cultures as different
as as the Norse and the indigenous people of North America. Imagine, right,
(08:39):
You're trying to establish a settlement, brand new land, the
terrain's unfamiliar, resources are limited, and then on top of
all that, you've got to figure out how to how
to communicate, how to coexist with people who see the
world in a completely different way.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, as a whole other layer of complexity to the story.
And speaking of complexity, what about the ultimate fate of
those Norse settlements. We have these, like it's incredible sagas, right,
detailed accounts of voyages settlements. But the Northmen they didn't
actually establish a lasting presence in North America. Why do
you think that is?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
It's a question that historians have been wrestling with for ages, really,
and like any good historical mystery, there's no easy answer,
is there. The sources they point to a whole bunch
of factors. We talked about the challenges of communicating across cultures,
and of course the conflict with the Scrailings, but the
Sagas they also highlight the disputes, the rivalries that were
(09:32):
happening within the Norse community itself.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, it's that old saying, right, you can choose your friends,
but you can't choose your family or in this case,
your fellow colonists. The source even mentioned some pretty intense
like power struggles, right, like the story of Fredus rich Study.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Ugh ah, yes, Fradus her story, it really exemplifies how
personal ambition, these rivalries they could undermine even the most
ambitious endeavors. The Sagas they portray her as a pretty
ruthless figure, incredibly ambitious, someone willing to do whatever it
took to come out on top. It's this reminder that
even in this new world with all its promise, human nature,
(10:11):
you know, for better or worse, it always seems to
find a way.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
It's a very human story, isn't it. These weren't just
these like larger than life heroes, real people with flaws,
with ambitions, and these conflicts that just just played out
against this huge, you know, epic adventure exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
And I think that's what makes their story so fascinating,
so relatable even But we also have to remember the
context here. This wasn't the age of European colonialism as
we might think of it later on the Norse. They
weren't setting out to conquer and claim these vast territories
with the same I don't know, sense of entitlement ruthlessness
that we see in later centuries. Their goals were different,
(10:47):
more focused on exploration, on trade and maybe establishing these
smaller settlements to make use of resources.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
So less about like large scale colonization and more about
like testing the waters, getting a foothold exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Were drawn to what Vinland offered the timber for those
grapes we talked about. But to actually establish a colony,
a permanent one, one that could thrive, especially with the
limited resources, the climate, the tense relations with the native people,
we turned out to be a much bigger challenge than
perhaps they had initially anticipated.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, I mean it makes you appreciate the sheer scale
of what they were trying to do. Crossing the Atlantic
Ocean with you know, the technology they had back then,
trying to make a life for themselves in this totally
new world. I mean that took guts. It really it
adds these these new dimensions to that phrase. Right, the
Vikings discovered America, it was it was more than that,
wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
It really was. It wasn't just a matter of you know,
planting a flag and claiming a continent. It was this
complex mix of exploration, ambition. You have these cultural clashes,
and maybe in a way they were a bit ahead
of their time when it comes to large scale colonization.
And the fact that you know, all these centuries later,
was still taught talking about their story. I think it
(12:01):
speaks to the power of the sagas, these these incredible tapestries,
this history, legend, cultural memory all woven together.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And these sagas, they weren't just content with, you know,
with telling the stories of Greenland and Vinland. Remember that
whole thing about Great Ireland, that mysterious place. It's like
like a loose thread at the end of this amazing tapestry,
it hints at even more voyages, even more encounters, like
there are all these other chapters to this, this whole
Transatlantic saga.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
You know, isn't that some you think you have a
handle on this, this whole early period of exploration, and
then something like like this Great Ireland it pops up
and it just throws open all these new doors.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
It's exciting, It really is so so for anyone who
might've just joined us. What exactly do the sagas tell
us about this Great Ireland?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Well, from what the source says, it sounds like it
was a land that explorers might have reached even before
the Norse voyages we've been talking about. And it's described
as a place inhabited by get this, white people, but
they spoke Irish.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Wait, hold on white people speaking Irish and North America.
And this is like even before the Vikings get there.
It's like, I don't know, It's like a historical riddle
wrapped in an enigma. What do we I mean, how
do we even begin to understand that?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
That's the beauty of it, isn't it? It forces us to,
I don't know, put on our historian hats and really
think about the possibilities. The source even tries to connect
Great Ireland to this norseman are Marson who sailed to
Vinland the they got blown.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Off course and ends up in Great Ireland. Is that
what you're thinking.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Well, the sagas they offer some clues, sure, but as
we've said before, they're a blend of fact and legend
and you know, oral tradition. It's like trying to put
together this puzzle, but some pieces are missing, and then
you've got some pieces that might be from a whole
different puzzle entirely. Got to be careful, use some common sense,
but also.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
You know, keep it open mind, right, So Great Ireland
could be this real place, is actual pre Norse settlement
right there in North America, Or it could be I
don't know, a misunderstanding or stories getting mixed up, or
even you know, totally made up. But that's what's so
cool about history, right, It's full of these unanswered questions,
these mysteries that just they keep pulling us back in,
even after all these centuries.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I completely agree the search for Great Ireland. I think
it reminds us that history isn't static. It's not just
dates in a book. It's this living process of discovery.
What we think we know today it could be challenged
tomorrow or completely rewritten by a new archaeological find, or
a fresh look at an old text, or hey, even
just like in our case, you know, taking a deep
(14:32):
dive into a forgotten saga.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Right, the more you learn, the more you realize how
much you don't know. It's humbling really, So speaking of learning,
what are some of the I don't know, the big
takeaways you're hoping our listener is walking away with from
this steep dive.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Well, more than anything, I hope it sparks some I
don't know, some sense of wonder about this whole period
of history, the story of the Norse in America. It's
not just about you know, Viking sailing around. It makes
us really challenge what we think we know about the past,
how we view those early encounters between cultures, and I
think too it helps us to appreciate the human side
(15:07):
of it all. These weren't just names on a page,
but real people living, struggling, you know, experiencing all of
that against this incredible backdrop.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
And let's not forget, never underestimate a good story. These sagas,
they've been passed down for generations, and they take us
back in time, introduce us to these amazing characters, and yeah,
they leave us with some mystery, some things we might
never fully figure out.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
And that's a good place to leave it, I think,
with that renewed sense of curiosity about the past, the
thirst for more, you know, more stories, more discoveries, just
to keep digging deeper into who we are, where we
came from.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Well said so to everyone listening, thanks for coming along
on this deep dive into the world before Columbus. We
hope it's inspired you to keep exploring, to keep asking questions,
to keep uncovering those hidden chapters of history, and until
next time, keep searching for your own great Ireland, you know,
whatever that might be for you.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.