January 16, 2025 • 32 mins
Join host Meredith Meeker on Rarefied Podcast as she embarks on a journey into Ontario's wetlands to spotlight the Blanding's turtle. This episode details their unique features, the threats they face, and the conservation efforts led by experts like Tanisha Agarwal (she/her) from the Toronto Zoo's Adopt-a-Pond program. Learn about the zoo's headstarting initiative, ongoing research, and the critical roles these vibrant turtles play in their ecosystem. Discover how zoos contribute to wildlife conservation and engage with community science projects to protect and preserve vulnerable species.
00:00 Introduction: A Legacy in Nature
00:24 Welcome to Rarefied: Meet Your Host
00:36 Journey into Ontario's Wetlands
00:44 Spotlight on the Blanding's Turtle
01:09 Personal Encounters and Rehabilitation
02:01 How to Spot a Blanding's Turtle
02:42 Challenges and Conservation Status
03:09 Guest Introduction: Tenicia from Toronto Zoo
03:57 Blanding's Turtle Diet and Care
04:57 Toronto Zoo's Headstarting Program
08:15 Tracking and Monitoring Success
13:22 Threats to Blanding's Turtles
16:25 Community Science and Conservation Efforts
18:35 The Importance of Blanding's Turtles
20:36 Field Memories and Fun Facts
24:53 The Role of Zoos in Conservation
29:39 Career Path and Final Thoughts
31:52 Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Theme Song (00:00):
In every stream, in every tree, a story lives, a
legacy.
Let's listen close, let's take astand, to keep the wild across
the land.
In every stream, in every tree,a story lives, a legacy.
(00:24):
Welcome you found us.
Let the adventure begin.
This is rarefied the podcastwhere we're going to learn to
love some of our fairs and mostimperiled species.
I'm your host, Meredith Meeker.
And today I hope you packed yourbug juice and your waders
because we are journeying intoOntario's wetlands.
(00:44):
Let me introduce you to theBlanding's turtle.
A stunning medium-sized turtle.
You can't mistake for any otherwith its bright yellow throat
and dome shell.
That looks like an army helmet.
It stands out from the rest ofOntario's turtles.
It's shell is streaked anddotted with the same vibrant
yellow that's under its chin.
And to top it all off, thisturtle always seems to be
(01:06):
smiling, making it undeniablycharming.
I first encountered a Blanding'sturtle.
When I worked in wildlife rehab.
And before that I had no idea wehad turtle species other than
snapping turtles and paintedturtles.
So all of a sudden there was abrand new world open to me.
All of the turtles we took intothe rehab center were there
(01:27):
because they were hit by cars.
A sadly common plate that we'regoing to hear more about later.
The good news is that mostturtles be treated, even though
they came in with some nastyinjuries.
We're successfully returned tothe wild, though.
It could take a couple months.
And while they were with us, acouple of turtles even laid
eggs.
(01:48):
And with the proper care, wewere able to hatch these into
tiny baby turtles.
We eventually released them backinto the wild, but watching the
little ones swim around in ourcenter was definitely a
highlight of the job for me.
And if you want to spot thisbeautiful creature for yourself,
here's a tip.
Head to a large shallow wetlandthat has plenty of plant life.
(02:09):
It's best to go out on a warmsunny day, early to late spring
before the summer vegetationmakes spotting them even
trickier.
You'll also need to stay quiet,but these turtles can have
excellent hearing and willquickly slip into the water at
the first sign of danger.
But lands.
In urban or near urban areas,but offer better chances as the
(02:30):
turtles in those habitats cansometimes be a little less shy
around people.
Keep in mind, these turtleshibernate or brumate as it's
called for turtles afterOctober.
So you won't see them againuntil the ice melts in spring.
While globally its population isapparently secure.
It's considered vulnerable herein Canada.
And in Ontario, they'reclassified as threatened.
(02:51):
In the states, their statusvaries quite a bit state by
state with some populationsbeing critically imperiled or
even extirpated in states, suchas South Dakota.
Additionally, there's still somestrongholds keeping the
population going as well.
To dive deeper into thechallenges these turtles face.
I'm thrilled to introducetoday's guests to Nisha art
(03:12):
wall.
Tenicia is a species recoveryproject lead at the Toronto zoo.
She works with the adoptive pondprogram, which delivers public
outreach and educationalprogramming highlighting the
Toronto zoo species recoveryprograms.
Tenicia is passionate aboutscience communication and enjoys
sharing her love for wildlifewith audiences, both young and
old.
(03:32):
We are thrilled to have her herewith us to chat about Blanding's
turtle.
So let's get into it.
Meredith (03:43):
Thank you for taking the time out of your day to chat
with me and we're chatting aboutthe Blanding's turtle, which is
a beautiful turtle species herein Ontario.
One of my favorites, though, itis hard to pick, are these guys
fish eaters?
Do they mostly eat veg or what'stheir diet like?
Tanisha Agarwal (04:03):
wild, they are omnivores.
They'll eat mostly fish,crayfish, insects as well as
some plant material.
But you're at the corner to, theplanning center a special diet
just to meet their post and sortof development.
So they crickets and smelledwhen they get a little bit
(04:24):
older, and then, do worms leafygreens, like kale, lettuce.
And they also get a special gelthat is, that has been
formulated by our nutritionistsat the Toronto Zoo.
So this just has all kinds ofvitamins and minerals force
their skeletal and their bonedevelopment
Meredith (04:39):
thanks.
A lot of sense.
Especially since.
You know, they're, they're atthe Toronto Zoo with you.
So, you know, you have amazingdieticians and resources at your
disposal that you can reallytailor a well rounded and
specialized diet for theseanimals.
But maybe we're, we're gettingahead of ourselves because why
(05:01):
are there Blanding's turtles atthe Toronto Zoo?
Can you tell us about yourprogram and your work with the
Blanding's turtles?
Tanisha Agarwal (05:08):
so the planning strudel.
Is a species at risk in Ontario.
It is listed as threatened atprovincial level and endangered
both federally and globally.
So, here at the Toronto Zoo, weare particularly interested in
increasing the population oflanding turtles in the Rouge
River watershed.
And that's sort of the areasurrounding the zoo, including
(05:29):
the Rouge National Urban Park.
And so what we do is we dosomething called headstarting,
which is where collect totaleggs from the wild.
And these eggs come from astable source population.
our collection of those eggsdoesn't affect the source
population.
And then we bring to the zooincubate them and let them
hatch.
(05:50):
Care for them for two years.
You can actually see them intheir first year life in the
wild.
At the Toronto Zoo in theAmericas Pavilion, where they're
actually cared for by our, ourwildlife care staff.
And then in their second year oflife, we moved them over to the
Wildlife Health Centre, wherethey're also cared for by our
keepers.
Sort of a few weeks before wereleased them back into, Into
(06:12):
the wild into which NationalUrban Park.
have them spend a little bit oftime in an outdoor enclosure to
sort of get them used to theelements like wind and rain and
things that they might have todeal with in the wild.
And so, we released them intothe National Urban Park, and at
the time of release, they'reactually, about the size of a
(06:34):
wild 4 to 6 year old turtle.
That's at 2 years old.
So another way of putting thatwould be two to three larger
than a wild turtle of the sameage.
And that's, Partly because ofthe excellent care that they
receive.
So we have an excellent team ofnutrition staff as well as
wildlife health professionals, awelfare team, and wildlife care
(06:55):
staff.
But also because they theturtles in our care don't
actually undergo brumation.
So brumation sort of like asimilar process to hibernation
for reptiles.
they're a little bit more activeduring brumation.
But the turtles in our caredon't undergo formation because
when temperatures drop, wesimply move them to an indoor
area, and so they don't have theneed you know, like, hunker down
(07:18):
for the winter.
And so they can actuallycontinue to grow during the
winter at a time when other wildwould not growing.
So the idea is that the ifthey're sort of big um, and,
and, and larger, then they canhave a better chance of survival
in the wild, have being dealwith predators, but also compete
with other turtles, forresources.
And then we release them intoRouge National Urban Park,
(07:40):
that's always the most excitingpart of of the work that we do.
We actually chose Boosh NationalUrban Park because the
population of Blanding's turtlesthat area had become very
depleted.
in 2012, there were only aboutseven adults known to be in the
park.
the population was essentiallydeemed functionally extinct.
And so we decided to, reallytarget that place for us to
release turtles.
(08:01):
And so we have over 700 turtles.
so we have been releasingturtles 2014.
This was our 11th year of doingthat.
And we scheduled to continuereleases until 2034.
So that's a 20 year time spanfor the project.
And once we do release we kindof want to know what they're
doing and how well they'redoing.
So we track via these littledevices called radio
(08:22):
transmitters.
They're super small and we fixthem onto the back of a turtle
shell.
Are less than 10 percent of thetotal body weight.
And it gives off a little radiosignal that we can then pick up
using, another device called areceiver.
So we go out into the wetlandsites where we release the
turtles and then, essentially.
Try to pick up that uniquesignal at the, at the specific
(08:44):
frequency, that transmitter issort of tuned to.
And so we can tune in todifferent frequencies, attract
different turtles, they're goingand how they're doing.
And we actually do thatthroughout the year.
So during the winter duringother seasons.
And we also take bodymeasurements the length their
body and the size of their shelland things like that, just to
get an understanding of how wellthey're eating and how well
(09:06):
they're surviving in the wild.
Meredith (09:07):
And do you have an idea of, you know, the success
of this program so far to, youknow, sort of what the numbers
are like now in the urban rouge,because I'm sure there's
probably still some predationand some mortality, but do you
have any idea of how successful,especially if, you know, these
individuals have never undergonebrumation.
(09:30):
Before, like, are they stillvery successful in the wild?
Tanisha Agarwal (09:34):
with any head starting project, with the
species long lived as planningturtle, it can, be a little bit
tricky sort of determinesuccess, sort of ahead of time.
Before your project endsespecially because they
reproduce, rather late in life.
So they've only reached sexualmaturity at about 18 to 20 years
of age.
(09:54):
really be able to tell thesuccess when we see the turtles
that we have released sort ofreproducing, having viable
offspring and having that sortof natural recruitment into the
wild population.
The research that we have doneso far has been very promising.
so we have on average across,all the turtles that we have
released over the years, we haveaverage survival rate of 85 to
(10:18):
90 percent, which is high, notjust compared to wild turtles,
but also for other head startprojects.
So we're very happy, with thosenumbers and continuing to
monitor that.
And you know, excitingly, someof the turtles that we released
back in, like, 2014 and 2015,those turtles are now reaching,
of that 13 to 15 year age mark.
(10:39):
so, as I mentioned, the turtlesthat we release are often larger
in size than the, uh, wild,turtles.
So, the thought is we There's apossibility that they may also
read sexual maturity earlier andstart reproducing earlier.
And that would sort of importantway of determining how
successful the project has, hasbeen.
But this, but this year was aparticularly interesting and
(11:00):
exciting one for us.
Because back in 2022, actually,collected eggs from an adult
female that we had been trackingfor a while in Rouge Park.
Will be our field team calls areClementine.
And had laid 11 eggs.
We collected those and 10 ofthem have successfully
incorporated into our headstartproject.
(11:20):
and they were the 2 year oldheadstarts were released into
the booth just this year withthis year's cohort.
And that was a really excitingmoment for us.
Just to be able preserve thoselocal genetics, and sort of
bring them back into the parkand just to, maintain genetic
diversity and sort of make thatpopulation hopefully more
resilient to unexpected changesand threats in the future.
Meredith (11:41):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, especially, you know,
there's always a little bit ofdelays, especially, like you
said, with a long lived in, youknow, late to sexual maturity
species and you said the projectwould be running until, you
know, 2030s.
Would the hope be then to startfocusing on other populations or
(12:03):
will it be, you know, hopefullyif this population in the Rouge
is sustained, it can become asource for other places more
naturally, or do you know whatthe future plans might be?
That
Tanisha Agarwal (12:14):
a good question.
I know that.
So our goal with this particularproject is to at least head
started totals every year 20years.
So we've done that for 11 years,got another 90, and we're to
achieve a target, sort of apopulation a hundred to 150
(12:35):
adults by the year 2040.
So that means that even afterour releases we'll continue to
sort of monitor that populationjust to understand how
successful.
have been in meeting that goal,whether or not there is some
sort of possibility and talksusing that population as a
source, it may be too early tosay but yeah, right now we're
(12:56):
just mostly focusing on makingsure that population is reaching
that self sustaining level
Meredith (13:01):
makes total sense.
Let's make sure the population'sdoing well before we, we start
messing with it.
And obviously this is a prettyintensive program, a lot of
resources.
This species is endangeredglobally, federally.
Nationally or provincially, it'sthreatened, but why is it at
risk?
(13:22):
Like, what are the threats toit?
Yeah, it
Tanisha Agarwal (13:25):
threat, I would say, one that's sort of
unfortunately common to a lot ofspecies in Ontario, and that's,
just the destruction of theirhabitat.
So, the, with the Blandings inparticular, being a wetland
species, about 90 percent ofOntario's wetlands, have been
destroyed or cleared in someway.
And so that's obviously beenvery devastating to their
population, so their habitatwon't be cleared completely but
(13:47):
it'll just be broken up by roadsand other human infrastructure
um, and so that kind of forcesthem into those areas, and
particularly when those areroads running through their
habitat.
there's sort of increased riskof being struck by vehicles,
cars, and then just dyingbecause of that.
And you know, a threat for all,sort of reptiles and amphibians
(14:09):
in Ontario.
But particularly for theBlandings because they are known
to travel, several kilometers insearch of, suitable basking
sites, nesting sites, and so on.
and so they're actually known asthe Wanderer, so just by, you
know, sort of forcing them into,sort of human areas and
particularly roads that theyhave to cross in order to get to
(14:29):
there.
Particular nesting or baskingsites.
it's sort of been a hugestressor to them and a huge
reason for their populationdwindling.
That's because of that roadmortality.
And apart from those, a few bigones, I would say, poaching,
unfortunately, it's also quitea, a, a threat that they face,
you know, you mentioned that theBlanding's is a beautiful
(14:50):
species.
It's, it's lovely to look at,but unfortunately, you know, not
it's not always the best thingto be pretty especially when
you're a turtle, um, there is,Sort of a demand or a market for
that sort of illegal collectionfor the pet trade.
Even though it is illegal inOntario to have a native turtle
species as a pet.
(15:11):
And that sort of risk ofpoaching is also why we are
generally quite careful aboutsort of where we collect eggs,
where we release turtles.
Just to sort of mitigate thatthreat as much as we can.
Meredith (15:25):
seems like, you know, there's, there's lots of
threats, you know, coming atthese turtles from, from
multiple angles and the workyou're doing is really important
to help, you know, stabilizethe, the populations and, and
hopefully bring them back to asustainable level.
But do you know what kind ofwork is being done?
You know, or what actions arebeing done to prevent those
(15:46):
other risks, especially like yousaid, road mortality.
Tanisha Agarwal (15:50):
so I think, you know, there's, there's no point
or there's no in sort of puttingall these turtles into the park
if we're not actually protectingtheir habitat and trying to
mitigate all these otherstressors.
You know, there are a numbergreat organizations out there
that we work quite closely with,that will not just banning
(16:10):
turtles, but all sort of turtlesin Ontario.
That have been struck by, carsand so just providing medical
care.
So the Ontario totalconservation center comes to
mind, and sort of on our part,we also have.
Sort of a community scienceproject in which of hope to
engage folks total conservation,and so it's a set of a project
(16:32):
in which folks can take apicture of a turtle that they
and then send that over to us,and so that helps us understand
What totals people are seeingand where and especially when
it's a blending turtle.
That's information that's reallyvaluable to us to help expand
our data set of where landingsturtles are being found in
Ontario, where they're movingand how the population is
changing.
And that data can also helpsupport, know, habitat
(16:53):
restoration projects or theinstallation of wildlife
crossing signs and things likethat.
That, uh, project is, availableon the iNaturalist platform, and
it's called Ontario Total Tally.
Folks can make an account, andsearch for the project on the
iNaturalist platform join it andstart snapping, snapping away.
Yeah, apart from that, I thinkum, you know, just sort of
trying to make threat of birdmortality we do have, wildlife
(17:16):
crossing signs snake and turtlecrossing signs, available for
purchase through our websiteplug, torontozoo.
com slash adopt a pawn, but,Yeah, I think that just, you
know, just doing things likethis as well, like, like I'm
here talking to you and justtalking to, the folks and doing
outreach about why this turtleis important and what we can do
to protect it some of the workthat we're doing and some of the
(17:38):
organizations that we workclosely with are also on that
same mission and doing the samethings.
Meredith (17:44):
Yeah, I mean, at least it seems like there are, there
are some solutions, you know,restoration helping, you know,
either like traffic calmingzones.
I've seen some turtle.
Cool.
Like crossings under roads withsome turtle fencing, which I
drive along highway 7 all thetime and there's this beautiful
wetland on both sides.
And there's, you know, for agood couple of kilometers,
there's turtle fencing, and thenit funnels them into it into a
(18:07):
safe place.
Because I think probably due tothings like your naturalist
project, it was identified aslike, a really high turtle
mortality spot.
So.
Community science can make realon the ground changes.
So I love your plug for yourproject.
If people want to help out, theycan join on or, you know,
support adopt a pond justthrough your website.
(18:29):
And so we've talked a lot about,you know, there's a lot of
effort going in to save.
These turtles we've talked aboutthat they're cute and they live
in wetlands, but like, why arethey such an important part of
our ecosystems?
Like, why, why are we working sohard to, to protect these
animals?
Tanisha Agarwal (18:46):
The question that, sort of everyone has,
right?
Like, why, why do they matter?
and so the planning turtle isactually a really important,
wetland species because they'rea crucial part of the wetland
ecosystem.
Um, You know, they areomnivores, so they sort of
contribute to sort of effects onboth plan and and populations in
(19:06):
particular, they are known toLots of insects as well as
carrying.
that's dead and body and they'reactually called janitors of the
weapon.
You may notice at this pointthat they have quite a few
names.
But that's just because they doso much, for, for the wetland
for the ecosystem.
And getting rid of some ofthose, you know, like that carry
in and some of those bugs andthey're potentially helping to
(19:28):
limit the spread of pests anddisease that could actually be
affecting people that are livingclose to wetland habitats as and
sort of apart from all of thoseecological ways in which they
are important As I mentioned,you know, they do feature
stories culture of many FirstNations.
So they're of huge culturalimportance to us, here on Turtle
(19:49):
Island as well.
Meredith (19:49):
I, I guess I didn't really think of them as like
janitors and cleaning up, butthat's such an important role.
And, you know, I think aboutsome of the other species that
are like, maybe are more knownfor that role.
Like, Like vultures, like theyplay a huge role, but it's
important to know that, youknow, you don't really see
(20:10):
vultures that often in wetlands.
So it's good to know thatthere's other species, like
picking up that job and veryimportant for disease control
and even just, you know, waterquality.
If we had a whole bunch of deadthings.
Living in our, or living in ourwetlands, If we had a whole
bunch of dead things in our, inour water, you know, that can
start affecting human health in,in that way as well.
(20:31):
So
Tanisha Agarwal (20:32):
estimated.
Meredith (20:33):
Work that they're doing.
So thank you for, for sharingthat.
And you mentioned earlier sortof how you were tracking
Blanding's turtles with liketelemetry and all those things.
So It sounds like maybe you getout into the field occasionally
to, to work with these animals.
So do you have any favoritememories working with Blanding's
turtles?
Tanisha Agarwal (20:52):
Yeah, for me, I mean, obviously mostly doing
outreach, and so I'm spending alot of time talking to folks and
spending a lot of time at mydesk.
But when I do get theopportunity to go out in the
field, I will absolutely jump atit.
And I think the my favoritememory was when we released
turtles this past summer.
It was You know, it's, it's onething to talk about, sort of,
(21:14):
okay, well, raise these turtlesand then we release them into
the wild.
But when you're actually outthere and you're like physically
holding just a tiny littleturtle, that's maybe the size
not even like the palm of myhand.
And then you're, you know, justwishing them well and then
sending them off into thewetland.
something that will definitelystay with you.
And it's like, it's like.
Real life physical evidence thatyou're doing something.
(21:36):
You're having an impact on thisindividual animal's life, but
also on the survival as a whole.
And so just getting to do thatwas something that I was very
ecstatic about, and I hope to bedoing that for several more
years to come.
Meredith (21:49):
Yeah, I can only imagine being like feeling or
what you would feel likereleasing these animals into,
you know, hopefully they'reforever home and being like,
Good luck and, you know, wishingthe individual well, but also
the species and feeling like,yeah, you're helping bring back
a, an animal to a place whereyou said they were almost
(22:09):
functionally extinct.
So that's very, very cool.
And it's a really cool animal tobe working with too.
Like you said, they are prettycharismatic and the young ones
are, I think, especiallyadorable.
Do you have a favorite?
Fun fact about Blanding'sturtles or one of your favorite
things about them.
Tanisha Agarwal (22:29):
Well, the something that's really, fun.
And something I think aboutevery time I see a planning
turtle, it's I think because ofthe sort of difference in
coloration between their, whichis like bright yellow then their
the rest of their body,including their which is sort of
darker.
It always looks to me like sortof got a permanent smile.
And they always look likethey're just grinning.
(22:49):
And I think that just kind ofgoes with that setup.
sunshiny personality, that we'vekind of given them in our heads.
But I think, I something that'sactually really cool um, and
that I didn't know until Istarted in this role was you can
often tell difference betweenthe sexes by looking at sort of
upper lip.
So in the males, it's often alittle bit darker, whereas in
the females you'll see like alittle lighter brown or like
(23:12):
slightly paler.
And to me, I always thought ofit as the females are wearing
lipstick.
And that's just one way that Ilike to remember it.
Yeah, I think those would besome really fun facts and just
things that I've noticed aboutthem while working with them.
Meredith (23:24):
I really like that.
And now that I know the femalesmight be wearing a little bit of
lipstick.
When I go out and take photosfor the Ontario turtle project,
I will, you know, do a littlezoom in and see if I can tell
for myself, whether it's afemale or not, because I never,
never knew that I'd heard with.
Snapping turtles, you know,maybe there's some like bigger
(23:45):
differences, especially withlike the length of their tail
and things like that, but I'dnever heard one for Blanding's
turtle.
Thank you for, for sharing that.
Tanisha Agarwal (23:53):
it's, it's like of unofficial sort of ways of
telling them yeah, even if justlooking at their pattern, just
like their bottom shell you cansort of see if it's more curved
in, like sort of concave, that'sa male.
And then if it's more flat, thenthat's a female.
That's like your best bet ofsort of telling them apart.
But I like my little lipsticktrick.
Meredith (24:14):
And I mean, if in the wild, it might, well, 1, if I'm
just taking photos, I don't needto, for scientific reasons, I do
them,
Tanisha Agarwal (24:21):
Yes.
Meredith (24:22):
Sometimes it's really hard to see the plastron, too,
if they're, I mean, usually yousee them when, when they're
basking, but Yeah, really,really cool.
And I'm hoping that, you know,maybe I'll get out to the, to
the Rouge this spring and tryand spot some.
So the Toronto zoo is within theurban Rouge park,
Tanisha Agarwal (24:42):
Hi.
Meredith (24:45):
really important habitats around there.
And I don't think people usuallythink like national parks.
And zoos, because zoos tend tohave like their own reputation,
their own functions, but whatrole.
You know, can zoos play inconservation or what role do you
feel like they should be playingor they are playing?
Tanisha Agarwal (25:08):
I love this question.
You're absolutely right.
You know, there is.
An idea, of zoos as, as theythought of were, but I think
right now we're at a veryexciting time where zoos are
sort of so much for conservationand thanks to the many resources
that they have and the way thatthey can actually connect with
the community while also sort ofsupporting major science and
research projects.
(25:30):
So here at the Toronto Zoo, forexample, we have a number of
conservation breeding programs,and so we have programs or
projects for, the EasternMassachusetts rattlesnake,
loghead trike, Vancouver Islandmarmot, and black footed
ferrets, and that's just to namesort of a few.
And so that's one way in whichwe're sort of actively working
(25:51):
to build populations andreintroduce into places where
they have become theirpopulation have become depleted
were sort of wiped out entirely.
And, and the work that we dowith the planning struggles is,
is kind of similar to that, butmore of an in situ approach
where we don't actually have,adults breeding in zoo, but we
are just head starting, thejuveniles.
But apart from that, we have, anexcellent conservation science
(26:11):
team that is dedicated toconservation research.
So we have an amazingreproductive team that is doing
lots of cutting edge research,including the creation and
maintenance of a biobank, whichis helping to maintain genetic
diversity and sort of acting asa safeguard for species at risk
in Canada and beyond.
Many the animals in our care aresort of part what we call a
(26:32):
species survival plan.
And Sort of a collaborationbetween different zoos and
similar institutions where wetry to sort of work together to
make a population managementdecisions and decisions on
breeding, to make sure thatwe're having the most optimal
sort of pairings and just doingwhat's best for the animal and
for that species.
And so those are just some ofthe ways in which, you know,
(26:52):
we're working to directly tohelp some of those animals and
species at risk.
But we also have, you know, justan amazing like a wildlife
health team animal welfare thatalso sort of support all of the
conservation work that we do.
And then apart from just likeworking with the animals
themselves, and sort of workingin the zoo.
We also do some populationmonitoring sort of surveys of,
(27:15):
animals in the wild.
So we do that, for example, witheastern milk snakes, as well as
native bat species in Ontario.
And, of course, as I mentioned,we also have a number of habitat
restoration projects and thingslike that we've done in the
past.
And all of that sort of helps toprotect those animals and those
species.
but, yeah, I think that Sort ofone of the, the, major
(27:37):
advantages that a zoo has as aconservation organization is
that connection with thecommunity, right?
Because a zoo is, at the end ofthe day, is also you know, apart
from everything else that it is,it is a center for the community
and for the public to, to comeand learn about nature and come
to appreciate nature.
And so I think it just has.
Like potential to sort of makethose connections between people
(27:59):
animals and conservation.
And so I think we're at a veryexciting time, and very excited
to see where we go from here.
Because I think the sky isreally the limit when it comes
to conservation and zoos.
Meredith (28:09):
Yeah, I think for all the reasons you just mentioned,
like, I, I totally agree withyou.
I grew up in Toronto.
I grew up, you know, going onfield trips to the Toronto zoo
and probably the highlight of myyear.
Every time we got to go, becauseyou did, you really felt
connected.
You really felt like it was a,it was a different learning
experience than, you know, atextbook and seeing it.
(28:32):
Animal on a page versus, youknow, it might not be seeing an
animal in the wild, but you doget, you know, to see it move,
you get to see characteristics,you get to fall in love with
them a little bit more, whichwithout zoos, I'm sure a lot
less people would care aboutconservation.
And then, like you said, theyhave this really amazing team of
(28:53):
wildlife health and.
Breeding history.
So they're able to apply that tothese recovery programs.
And yes, like you said, my, myfirst episode was with Hazel
Wheeler and the loggerheadstrike program.
And so, you know, even though itwasn't a Toronto zoo episode, it
was linked back to, to the workthat, that zoos do.
And you know, there aren't manyinstitutions that are really set
(29:16):
up to, to care for animals thesame way as we'll say an
accredited zoo.
We know that there's.
side of the road zoos that arenot up to the same standards,
but an accredited zoo, they'rereally doing good work for the
community and for the animals.
And I think that's an importantmessage to get out there that
they're not just forentertainment.
They are really working for thewelfare of animals.
(29:39):
And I guess on that note, like,how did you end up at the
Toronto zoo?
How did you end up?
In this line of work.
Tanisha Agarwal (29:45):
honestly, I'm pretty new to the the
conservation space working withthese animals.
To a university for andenvironmental science, but I
also did literature.
So I've always been kind ofinterested in the bits of
science communication and justtrying to understand all that
hard core science and justreally distill it down to its
(30:11):
bare bones and then fill it upand make it a little bit fun for
folks to understand.
And appreciate it.
And so I started working at theToronto zoo as actually as a an
intern with the climate actionlearning and leadership program
this is a really great programyouth from like sort of
traditionally marginalizedcommunities just to sort of get
your foot in the door when itcomes to conservation and and
(30:33):
working with the kind of thingsthat sue does and You know, from
like, I sort of had theopportunity to the species
recovery branch at the zoo andthe adopt a pond butlin
conservation program within thezoo, and within the branch, and
I also had the opportunity towork with, some of our wildlife
care staff, that actually carefor the blinding turtles and
that just really made me fall inlove with them.
And then sort of, Doing sort ofoutreach and and sort of
(30:57):
education work for theconservation, projects that we
have within the Species RecoveryBranch sort of opened up.
Sort of very happy to jump inand continue doing some of that
work.
Always
Meredith (31:13):
you know, not just pursues, but that are able to
engage youth and get them orlike, you know, young
professionals, early careerprofessionals to get them hands
on experience, because like yousaid, you know, you need that
university degree.
But you don't necessarily comeout with like experience that's
going to get you your first job,but there's a lot of programs
(31:35):
that can give you some reallygood hands on experience that
will, you know, get you yourfoot in the door.
And you never know where thoseopportunities are going to lead.
So I'm glad you landed at thezoo and I'm, I'm glad you've
fallen in love with the blindingturtles and you've gotten to
share that love with us.
Tanisha Agarwal (31:51):
talk turtles
And that's a wrap on thisepisode with the blendings
turtle.
And Tenicia a massive thank youto her for taking the time to
chat with us.
And if you love this episode,please subscribe and leave us a
review.
It helps Brandify.
Reach more people who care aboutour planets, breast creatures.
And don't forget to follow us onInstagram at rarefied dot pod.
And sign up for our newsletteron our website for updates and
(32:14):
behind the scenes content.
Next time we'll be joined by ourfirst guests from south of the
border with an animal thatbelieve you all buzzing.
You won't want to miss it.
So until next time, get outthere and explore the wild
because every species has astory and every one of us can
make a difference.
Thanks for listening.
And until next time happytrails.
In every stream, in every tree, a story lives, a
legacy.
Let's listen close, let's take astand, to keep the wild across
the land.
In every stream, in every tree,a story lives, a legacy.
(00:24):
Welcome you found us.
Let the adventure begin.
This is rarefied the podcastwhere we're going to learn to
love some of our fairs and mostimperiled species.
I'm your host, Meredith Meeker.
And today I hope you packed yourbug juice and your waders
because we are journeying intoOntario's wetlands.
(00:44):
Let me introduce you to theBlanding's turtle.
A stunning medium-sized turtle.
You can't mistake for any otherwith its bright yellow throat
and dome shell.
That looks like an army helmet.
It stands out from the rest ofOntario's turtles.
It's shell is streaked anddotted with the same vibrant
yellow that's under its chin.
And to top it all off, thisturtle always seems to be
(01:06):
smiling, making it undeniablycharming.
I first encountered a Blanding'sturtle.
When I worked in wildlife rehab.
And before that I had no idea wehad turtle species other than
snapping turtles and paintedturtles.
So all of a sudden there was abrand new world open to me.
All of the turtles we took intothe rehab center were there
(01:27):
because they were hit by cars.
A sadly common plate that we'regoing to hear more about later.
The good news is that mostturtles be treated, even though
they came in with some nastyinjuries.
We're successfully returned tothe wild, though.
It could take a couple months.
And while they were with us, acouple of turtles even laid
eggs.
(01:48):
And with the proper care, wewere able to hatch these into
tiny baby turtles.
We eventually released them backinto the wild, but watching the
little ones swim around in ourcenter was definitely a
highlight of the job for me.
And if you want to spot thisbeautiful creature for yourself,
here's a tip.
Head to a large shallow wetlandthat has plenty of plant life.
(02:09):
It's best to go out on a warmsunny day, early to late spring
before the summer vegetationmakes spotting them even
trickier.
You'll also need to stay quiet,but these turtles can have
excellent hearing and willquickly slip into the water at
the first sign of danger.
But lands.
In urban or near urban areas,but offer better chances as the
(02:30):
turtles in those habitats cansometimes be a little less shy
around people.
Keep in mind, these turtleshibernate or brumate as it's
called for turtles afterOctober.
So you won't see them againuntil the ice melts in spring.
While globally its population isapparently secure.
It's considered vulnerable herein Canada.
And in Ontario, they'reclassified as threatened.
(02:51):
In the states, their statusvaries quite a bit state by
state with some populationsbeing critically imperiled or
even extirpated in states, suchas South Dakota.
Additionally, there's still somestrongholds keeping the
population going as well.
To dive deeper into thechallenges these turtles face.
I'm thrilled to introducetoday's guests to Nisha art
(03:12):
wall.
Tenicia is a species recoveryproject lead at the Toronto zoo.
She works with the adoptive pondprogram, which delivers public
outreach and educationalprogramming highlighting the
Toronto zoo species recoveryprograms.
Tenicia is passionate aboutscience communication and enjoys
sharing her love for wildlifewith audiences, both young and
old.
(03:32):
We are thrilled to have her herewith us to chat about Blanding's
turtle.
So let's get into it.
Meredith (03:43):
Thank you for taking the time out of your day to chat
with me and we're chatting aboutthe Blanding's turtle, which is
a beautiful turtle species herein Ontario.
One of my favorites, though, itis hard to pick, are these guys
fish eaters?
Do they mostly eat veg or what'stheir diet like?
Tanisha Agarwal (04:03):
wild, they are omnivores.
They'll eat mostly fish,crayfish, insects as well as
some plant material.
But you're at the corner to, theplanning center a special diet
just to meet their post and sortof development.
So they crickets and smelledwhen they get a little bit
(04:24):
older, and then, do worms leafygreens, like kale, lettuce.
And they also get a special gelthat is, that has been
formulated by our nutritionistsat the Toronto Zoo.
So this just has all kinds ofvitamins and minerals force
their skeletal and their bonedevelopment
Meredith (04:39):
thanks.
A lot of sense.
Especially since.
You know, they're, they're atthe Toronto Zoo with you.
So, you know, you have amazingdieticians and resources at your
disposal that you can reallytailor a well rounded and
specialized diet for theseanimals.
But maybe we're, we're gettingahead of ourselves because why
(05:01):
are there Blanding's turtles atthe Toronto Zoo?
Can you tell us about yourprogram and your work with the
Blanding's turtles?
Tanisha Agarwal (05:08):
so the planning strudel.
Is a species at risk in Ontario.
It is listed as threatened atprovincial level and endangered
both federally and globally.
So, here at the Toronto Zoo, weare particularly interested in
increasing the population oflanding turtles in the Rouge
River watershed.
And that's sort of the areasurrounding the zoo, including
(05:29):
the Rouge National Urban Park.
And so what we do is we dosomething called headstarting,
which is where collect totaleggs from the wild.
And these eggs come from astable source population.
our collection of those eggsdoesn't affect the source
population.
And then we bring to the zooincubate them and let them
hatch.
(05:50):
Care for them for two years.
You can actually see them intheir first year life in the
wild.
At the Toronto Zoo in theAmericas Pavilion, where they're
actually cared for by our, ourwildlife care staff.
And then in their second year oflife, we moved them over to the
Wildlife Health Centre, wherethey're also cared for by our
keepers.
Sort of a few weeks before wereleased them back into, Into
(06:12):
the wild into which NationalUrban Park.
have them spend a little bit oftime in an outdoor enclosure to
sort of get them used to theelements like wind and rain and
things that they might have todeal with in the wild.
And so, we released them intothe National Urban Park, and at
the time of release, they'reactually, about the size of a
(06:34):
wild 4 to 6 year old turtle.
That's at 2 years old.
So another way of putting thatwould be two to three larger
than a wild turtle of the sameage.
And that's, Partly because ofthe excellent care that they
receive.
So we have an excellent team ofnutrition staff as well as
wildlife health professionals, awelfare team, and wildlife care
(06:55):
staff.
But also because they theturtles in our care don't
actually undergo brumation.
So brumation sort of like asimilar process to hibernation
for reptiles.
they're a little bit more activeduring brumation.
But the turtles in our caredon't undergo formation because
when temperatures drop, wesimply move them to an indoor
area, and so they don't have theneed you know, like, hunker down
(07:18):
for the winter.
And so they can actuallycontinue to grow during the
winter at a time when other wildwould not growing.
So the idea is that the ifthey're sort of big um, and,
and, and larger, then they canhave a better chance of survival
in the wild, have being dealwith predators, but also compete
with other turtles, forresources.
And then we release them intoRouge National Urban Park,
(07:40):
that's always the most excitingpart of of the work that we do.
We actually chose Boosh NationalUrban Park because the
population of Blanding's turtlesthat area had become very
depleted.
in 2012, there were only aboutseven adults known to be in the
park.
the population was essentiallydeemed functionally extinct.
And so we decided to, reallytarget that place for us to
release turtles.
(08:01):
And so we have over 700 turtles.
so we have been releasingturtles 2014.
This was our 11th year of doingthat.
And we scheduled to continuereleases until 2034.
So that's a 20 year time spanfor the project.
And once we do release we kindof want to know what they're
doing and how well they'redoing.
So we track via these littledevices called radio
(08:22):
transmitters.
They're super small and we fixthem onto the back of a turtle
shell.
Are less than 10 percent of thetotal body weight.
And it gives off a little radiosignal that we can then pick up
using, another device called areceiver.
So we go out into the wetlandsites where we release the
turtles and then, essentially.
Try to pick up that uniquesignal at the, at the specific
(08:44):
frequency, that transmitter issort of tuned to.
And so we can tune in todifferent frequencies, attract
different turtles, they're goingand how they're doing.
And we actually do thatthroughout the year.
So during the winter duringother seasons.
And we also take bodymeasurements the length their
body and the size of their shelland things like that, just to
get an understanding of how wellthey're eating and how well
(09:06):
they're surviving in the wild.
Meredith (09:07):
And do you have an idea of, you know, the success
of this program so far to, youknow, sort of what the numbers
are like now in the urban rouge,because I'm sure there's
probably still some predationand some mortality, but do you
have any idea of how successful,especially if, you know, these
individuals have never undergonebrumation.
(09:30):
Before, like, are they stillvery successful in the wild?
Tanisha Agarwal (09:34):
with any head starting project, with the
species long lived as planningturtle, it can, be a little bit
tricky sort of determinesuccess, sort of ahead of time.
Before your project endsespecially because they
reproduce, rather late in life.
So they've only reached sexualmaturity at about 18 to 20 years
of age.
(09:54):
really be able to tell thesuccess when we see the turtles
that we have released sort ofreproducing, having viable
offspring and having that sortof natural recruitment into the
wild population.
The research that we have doneso far has been very promising.
so we have on average across,all the turtles that we have
released over the years, we haveaverage survival rate of 85 to
(10:18):
90 percent, which is high, notjust compared to wild turtles,
but also for other head startprojects.
So we're very happy, with thosenumbers and continuing to
monitor that.
And you know, excitingly, someof the turtles that we released
back in, like, 2014 and 2015,those turtles are now reaching,
of that 13 to 15 year age mark.
(10:39):
so, as I mentioned, the turtlesthat we release are often larger
in size than the, uh, wild,turtles.
So, the thought is we There's apossibility that they may also
read sexual maturity earlier andstart reproducing earlier.
And that would sort of importantway of determining how
successful the project has, hasbeen.
But this, but this year was aparticularly interesting and
(11:00):
exciting one for us.
Because back in 2022, actually,collected eggs from an adult
female that we had been trackingfor a while in Rouge Park.
Will be our field team calls areClementine.
And had laid 11 eggs.
We collected those and 10 ofthem have successfully
incorporated into our headstartproject.
(11:20):
and they were the 2 year oldheadstarts were released into
the booth just this year withthis year's cohort.
And that was a really excitingmoment for us.
Just to be able preserve thoselocal genetics, and sort of
bring them back into the parkand just to, maintain genetic
diversity and sort of make thatpopulation hopefully more
resilient to unexpected changesand threats in the future.
Meredith (11:41):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, especially, you know,
there's always a little bit ofdelays, especially, like you
said, with a long lived in, youknow, late to sexual maturity
species and you said the projectwould be running until, you
know, 2030s.
Would the hope be then to startfocusing on other populations or
(12:03):
will it be, you know, hopefullyif this population in the Rouge
is sustained, it can become asource for other places more
naturally, or do you know whatthe future plans might be?
That
Tanisha Agarwal (12:14):
a good question.
I know that.
So our goal with this particularproject is to at least head
started totals every year 20years.
So we've done that for 11 years,got another 90, and we're to
achieve a target, sort of apopulation a hundred to 150
(12:35):
adults by the year 2040.
So that means that even afterour releases we'll continue to
sort of monitor that populationjust to understand how
successful.
have been in meeting that goal,whether or not there is some
sort of possibility and talksusing that population as a
source, it may be too early tosay but yeah, right now we're
(12:56):
just mostly focusing on makingsure that population is reaching
that self sustaining level
Meredith (13:01):
makes total sense.
Let's make sure the population'sdoing well before we, we start
messing with it.
And obviously this is a prettyintensive program, a lot of
resources.
This species is endangeredglobally, federally.
Nationally or provincially, it'sthreatened, but why is it at
risk?
(13:22):
Like, what are the threats toit?
Yeah, it
Tanisha Agarwal (13:25):
threat, I would say, one that's sort of
unfortunately common to a lot ofspecies in Ontario, and that's,
just the destruction of theirhabitat.
So, the, with the Blandings inparticular, being a wetland
species, about 90 percent ofOntario's wetlands, have been
destroyed or cleared in someway.
And so that's obviously beenvery devastating to their
population, so their habitatwon't be cleared completely but
(13:47):
it'll just be broken up by roadsand other human infrastructure
um, and so that kind of forcesthem into those areas, and
particularly when those areroads running through their
habitat.
there's sort of increased riskof being struck by vehicles,
cars, and then just dyingbecause of that.
And you know, a threat for all,sort of reptiles and amphibians
(14:09):
in Ontario.
But particularly for theBlandings because they are known
to travel, several kilometers insearch of, suitable basking
sites, nesting sites, and so on.
and so they're actually known asthe Wanderer, so just by, you
know, sort of forcing them into,sort of human areas and
particularly roads that theyhave to cross in order to get to
(14:29):
there.
Particular nesting or baskingsites.
it's sort of been a hugestressor to them and a huge
reason for their populationdwindling.
That's because of that roadmortality.
And apart from those, a few bigones, I would say, poaching,
unfortunately, it's also quitea, a, a threat that they face,
you know, you mentioned that theBlanding's is a beautiful
(14:50):
species.
It's, it's lovely to look at,but unfortunately, you know, not
it's not always the best thingto be pretty especially when
you're a turtle, um, there is,Sort of a demand or a market for
that sort of illegal collectionfor the pet trade.
Even though it is illegal inOntario to have a native turtle
species as a pet.
(15:11):
And that sort of risk ofpoaching is also why we are
generally quite careful aboutsort of where we collect eggs,
where we release turtles.
Just to sort of mitigate thatthreat as much as we can.
Meredith (15:25):
seems like, you know, there's, there's lots of
threats, you know, coming atthese turtles from, from
multiple angles and the workyou're doing is really important
to help, you know, stabilizethe, the populations and, and
hopefully bring them back to asustainable level.
But do you know what kind ofwork is being done?
You know, or what actions arebeing done to prevent those
(15:46):
other risks, especially like yousaid, road mortality.
Tanisha Agarwal (15:50):
so I think, you know, there's, there's no point
or there's no in sort of puttingall these turtles into the park
if we're not actually protectingtheir habitat and trying to
mitigate all these otherstressors.
You know, there are a numbergreat organizations out there
that we work quite closely with,that will not just banning
(16:10):
turtles, but all sort of turtlesin Ontario.
That have been struck by, carsand so just providing medical
care.
So the Ontario totalconservation center comes to
mind, and sort of on our part,we also have.
Sort of a community scienceproject in which of hope to
engage folks total conservation,and so it's a set of a project
(16:32):
in which folks can take apicture of a turtle that they
and then send that over to us,and so that helps us understand
What totals people are seeingand where and especially when
it's a blending turtle.
That's information that's reallyvaluable to us to help expand
our data set of where landingsturtles are being found in
Ontario, where they're movingand how the population is
changing.
And that data can also helpsupport, know, habitat
(16:53):
restoration projects or theinstallation of wildlife
crossing signs and things likethat.
That, uh, project is, availableon the iNaturalist platform, and
it's called Ontario Total Tally.
Folks can make an account, andsearch for the project on the
iNaturalist platform join it andstart snapping, snapping away.
Yeah, apart from that, I thinkum, you know, just sort of
trying to make threat of birdmortality we do have, wildlife
(17:16):
crossing signs snake and turtlecrossing signs, available for
purchase through our websiteplug, torontozoo.
com slash adopt a pawn, but,Yeah, I think that just, you
know, just doing things likethis as well, like, like I'm
here talking to you and justtalking to, the folks and doing
outreach about why this turtleis important and what we can do
to protect it some of the workthat we're doing and some of the
(17:38):
organizations that we workclosely with are also on that
same mission and doing the samethings.
Meredith (17:44):
Yeah, I mean, at least it seems like there are, there
are some solutions, you know,restoration helping, you know,
either like traffic calmingzones.
I've seen some turtle.
Cool.
Like crossings under roads withsome turtle fencing, which I
drive along highway 7 all thetime and there's this beautiful
wetland on both sides.
And there's, you know, for agood couple of kilometers,
there's turtle fencing, and thenit funnels them into it into a
(18:07):
safe place.
Because I think probably due tothings like your naturalist
project, it was identified aslike, a really high turtle
mortality spot.
So.
Community science can make realon the ground changes.
So I love your plug for yourproject.
If people want to help out, theycan join on or, you know,
support adopt a pond justthrough your website.
(18:29):
And so we've talked a lot about,you know, there's a lot of
effort going in to save.
These turtles we've talked aboutthat they're cute and they live
in wetlands, but like, why arethey such an important part of
our ecosystems?
Like, why, why are we working sohard to, to protect these
animals?
Tanisha Agarwal (18:46):
The question that, sort of everyone has,
right?
Like, why, why do they matter?
and so the planning turtle isactually a really important,
wetland species because they'rea crucial part of the wetland
ecosystem.
Um, You know, they areomnivores, so they sort of
contribute to sort of effects onboth plan and and populations in
(19:06):
particular, they are known toLots of insects as well as
carrying.
that's dead and body and they'reactually called janitors of the
weapon.
You may notice at this pointthat they have quite a few
names.
But that's just because they doso much, for, for the wetland
for the ecosystem.
And getting rid of some ofthose, you know, like that carry
in and some of those bugs andthey're potentially helping to
(19:28):
limit the spread of pests anddisease that could actually be
affecting people that are livingclose to wetland habitats as and
sort of apart from all of thoseecological ways in which they
are important As I mentioned,you know, they do feature
stories culture of many FirstNations.
So they're of huge culturalimportance to us, here on Turtle
(19:49):
Island as well.
Meredith (19:49):
I, I guess I didn't really think of them as like
janitors and cleaning up, butthat's such an important role.
And, you know, I think aboutsome of the other species that
are like, maybe are more knownfor that role.
Like, Like vultures, like theyplay a huge role, but it's
important to know that, youknow, you don't really see
(20:10):
vultures that often in wetlands.
So it's good to know thatthere's other species, like
picking up that job and veryimportant for disease control
and even just, you know, waterquality.
If we had a whole bunch of deadthings.
Living in our, or living in ourwetlands, If we had a whole
bunch of dead things in our, inour water, you know, that can
start affecting human health in,in that way as well.
(20:31):
So
Tanisha Agarwal (20:32):
estimated.
Meredith (20:33):
Work that they're doing.
So thank you for, for sharingthat.
And you mentioned earlier sortof how you were tracking
Blanding's turtles with liketelemetry and all those things.
So It sounds like maybe you getout into the field occasionally
to, to work with these animals.
So do you have any favoritememories working with Blanding's
turtles?
Tanisha Agarwal (20:52):
Yeah, for me, I mean, obviously mostly doing
outreach, and so I'm spending alot of time talking to folks and
spending a lot of time at mydesk.
But when I do get theopportunity to go out in the
field, I will absolutely jump atit.
And I think the my favoritememory was when we released
turtles this past summer.
It was You know, it's, it's onething to talk about, sort of,
(21:14):
okay, well, raise these turtlesand then we release them into
the wild.
But when you're actually outthere and you're like physically
holding just a tiny littleturtle, that's maybe the size
not even like the palm of myhand.
And then you're, you know, justwishing them well and then
sending them off into thewetland.
something that will definitelystay with you.
And it's like, it's like.
Real life physical evidence thatyou're doing something.
(21:36):
You're having an impact on thisindividual animal's life, but
also on the survival as a whole.
And so just getting to do thatwas something that I was very
ecstatic about, and I hope to bedoing that for several more
years to come.
Meredith (21:49):
Yeah, I can only imagine being like feeling or
what you would feel likereleasing these animals into,
you know, hopefully they'reforever home and being like,
Good luck and, you know, wishingthe individual well, but also
the species and feeling like,yeah, you're helping bring back
a, an animal to a place whereyou said they were almost
(22:09):
functionally extinct.
So that's very, very cool.
And it's a really cool animal tobe working with too.
Like you said, they are prettycharismatic and the young ones
are, I think, especiallyadorable.
Do you have a favorite?
Fun fact about Blanding'sturtles or one of your favorite
things about them.
Tanisha Agarwal (22:29):
Well, the something that's really, fun.
And something I think aboutevery time I see a planning
turtle, it's I think because ofthe sort of difference in
coloration between their, whichis like bright yellow then their
the rest of their body,including their which is sort of
darker.
It always looks to me like sortof got a permanent smile.
And they always look likethey're just grinning.
(22:49):
And I think that just kind ofgoes with that setup.
sunshiny personality, that we'vekind of given them in our heads.
But I think, I something that'sactually really cool um, and
that I didn't know until Istarted in this role was you can
often tell difference betweenthe sexes by looking at sort of
upper lip.
So in the males, it's often alittle bit darker, whereas in
the females you'll see like alittle lighter brown or like
(23:12):
slightly paler.
And to me, I always thought ofit as the females are wearing
lipstick.
And that's just one way that Ilike to remember it.
Yeah, I think those would besome really fun facts and just
things that I've noticed aboutthem while working with them.
Meredith (23:24):
I really like that.
And now that I know the femalesmight be wearing a little bit of
lipstick.
When I go out and take photosfor the Ontario turtle project,
I will, you know, do a littlezoom in and see if I can tell
for myself, whether it's afemale or not, because I never,
never knew that I'd heard with.
Snapping turtles, you know,maybe there's some like bigger
(23:45):
differences, especially withlike the length of their tail
and things like that, but I'dnever heard one for Blanding's
turtle.
Thank you for, for sharing that.
Tanisha Agarwal (23:53):
it's, it's like of unofficial sort of ways of
telling them yeah, even if justlooking at their pattern, just
like their bottom shell you cansort of see if it's more curved
in, like sort of concave, that'sa male.
And then if it's more flat, thenthat's a female.
That's like your best bet ofsort of telling them apart.
But I like my little lipsticktrick.
Meredith (24:14):
And I mean, if in the wild, it might, well, 1, if I'm
just taking photos, I don't needto, for scientific reasons, I do
them,
Tanisha Agarwal (24:21):
Yes.
Meredith (24:22):
Sometimes it's really hard to see the plastron, too,
if they're, I mean, usually yousee them when, when they're
basking, but Yeah, really,really cool.
And I'm hoping that, you know,maybe I'll get out to the, to
the Rouge this spring and tryand spot some.
So the Toronto zoo is within theurban Rouge park,
Tanisha Agarwal (24:42):
Hi.
Meredith (24:45):
really important habitats around there.
And I don't think people usuallythink like national parks.
And zoos, because zoos tend tohave like their own reputation,
their own functions, but whatrole.
You know, can zoos play inconservation or what role do you
feel like they should be playingor they are playing?
Tanisha Agarwal (25:08):
I love this question.
You're absolutely right.
You know, there is.
An idea, of zoos as, as theythought of were, but I think
right now we're at a veryexciting time where zoos are
sort of so much for conservationand thanks to the many resources
that they have and the way thatthey can actually connect with
the community while also sort ofsupporting major science and
research projects.
(25:30):
So here at the Toronto Zoo, forexample, we have a number of
conservation breeding programs,and so we have programs or
projects for, the EasternMassachusetts rattlesnake,
loghead trike, Vancouver Islandmarmot, and black footed
ferrets, and that's just to namesort of a few.
And so that's one way in whichwe're sort of actively working
(25:51):
to build populations andreintroduce into places where
they have become theirpopulation have become depleted
were sort of wiped out entirely.
And, and the work that we dowith the planning struggles is,
is kind of similar to that, butmore of an in situ approach
where we don't actually have,adults breeding in zoo, but we
are just head starting, thejuveniles.
But apart from that, we have, anexcellent conservation science
(26:11):
team that is dedicated toconservation research.
So we have an amazingreproductive team that is doing
lots of cutting edge research,including the creation and
maintenance of a biobank, whichis helping to maintain genetic
diversity and sort of acting asa safeguard for species at risk
in Canada and beyond.
Many the animals in our care aresort of part what we call a
(26:32):
species survival plan.
And Sort of a collaborationbetween different zoos and
similar institutions where wetry to sort of work together to
make a population managementdecisions and decisions on
breeding, to make sure thatwe're having the most optimal
sort of pairings and just doingwhat's best for the animal and
for that species.
And so those are just some ofthe ways in which, you know,
(26:52):
we're working to directly tohelp some of those animals and
species at risk.
But we also have, you know, justan amazing like a wildlife
health team animal welfare thatalso sort of support all of the
conservation work that we do.
And then apart from just likeworking with the animals
themselves, and sort of workingin the zoo.
We also do some populationmonitoring sort of surveys of,
(27:15):
animals in the wild.
So we do that, for example, witheastern milk snakes, as well as
native bat species in Ontario.
And, of course, as I mentioned,we also have a number of habitat
restoration projects and thingslike that we've done in the
past.
And all of that sort of helps toprotect those animals and those
species.
but, yeah, I think that Sort ofone of the, the, major
(27:37):
advantages that a zoo has as aconservation organization is
that connection with thecommunity, right?
Because a zoo is, at the end ofthe day, is also you know, apart
from everything else that it is,it is a center for the community
and for the public to, to comeand learn about nature and come
to appreciate nature.
And so I think it just has.
Like potential to sort of makethose connections between people
(27:59):
animals and conservation.
And so I think we're at a veryexciting time, and very excited
to see where we go from here.
Because I think the sky isreally the limit when it comes
to conservation and zoos.
Meredith (28:09):
Yeah, I think for all the reasons you just mentioned,
like, I, I totally agree withyou.
I grew up in Toronto.
I grew up, you know, going onfield trips to the Toronto zoo
and probably the highlight of myyear.
Every time we got to go, becauseyou did, you really felt
connected.
You really felt like it was a,it was a different learning
experience than, you know, atextbook and seeing it.
(28:32):
Animal on a page versus, youknow, it might not be seeing an
animal in the wild, but you doget, you know, to see it move,
you get to see characteristics,you get to fall in love with
them a little bit more, whichwithout zoos, I'm sure a lot
less people would care aboutconservation.
And then, like you said, theyhave this really amazing team of
(28:53):
wildlife health and.
Breeding history.
So they're able to apply that tothese recovery programs.
And yes, like you said, my, myfirst episode was with Hazel
Wheeler and the loggerheadstrike program.
And so, you know, even though itwasn't a Toronto zoo episode, it
was linked back to, to the workthat, that zoos do.
And you know, there aren't manyinstitutions that are really set
(29:16):
up to, to care for animals thesame way as we'll say an
accredited zoo.
We know that there's.
side of the road zoos that arenot up to the same standards,
but an accredited zoo, they'rereally doing good work for the
community and for the animals.
And I think that's an importantmessage to get out there that
they're not just forentertainment.
They are really working for thewelfare of animals.
(29:39):
And I guess on that note, like,how did you end up at the
Toronto zoo?
How did you end up?
In this line of work.
Tanisha Agarwal (29:45):
honestly, I'm pretty new to the the
conservation space working withthese animals.
To a university for andenvironmental science, but I
also did literature.
So I've always been kind ofinterested in the bits of
science communication and justtrying to understand all that
hard core science and justreally distill it down to its
(30:11):
bare bones and then fill it upand make it a little bit fun for
folks to understand.
And appreciate it.
And so I started working at theToronto zoo as actually as a an
intern with the climate actionlearning and leadership program
this is a really great programyouth from like sort of
traditionally marginalizedcommunities just to sort of get
your foot in the door when itcomes to conservation and and
(30:33):
working with the kind of thingsthat sue does and You know, from
like, I sort of had theopportunity to the species
recovery branch at the zoo andthe adopt a pond butlin
conservation program within thezoo, and within the branch, and
I also had the opportunity towork with, some of our wildlife
care staff, that actually carefor the blinding turtles and
that just really made me fall inlove with them.
And then sort of, Doing sort ofoutreach and and sort of
(30:57):
education work for theconservation, projects that we
have within the Species RecoveryBranch sort of opened up.
Sort of very happy to jump inand continue doing some of that
work.
Always
Meredith (31:13):
you know, not just pursues, but that are able to
engage youth and get them orlike, you know, young
professionals, early careerprofessionals to get them hands
on experience, because like yousaid, you know, you need that
university degree.
But you don't necessarily comeout with like experience that's
going to get you your first job,but there's a lot of programs
(31:35):
that can give you some reallygood hands on experience that
will, you know, get you yourfoot in the door.
And you never know where thoseopportunities are going to lead.
So I'm glad you landed at thezoo and I'm, I'm glad you've
fallen in love with the blindingturtles and you've gotten to
share that love with us.
Tanisha Agarwal (31:51):
talk turtles
And that's a wrap on thisepisode with the blendings
turtle.
And Tenicia a massive thank youto her for taking the time to
chat with us.
And if you love this episode,please subscribe and leave us a
review.
It helps Brandify.
Reach more people who care aboutour planets, breast creatures.
And don't forget to follow us onInstagram at rarefied dot pod.
And sign up for our newsletteron our website for updates and
(32:14):
behind the scenes content.
Next time we'll be joined by ourfirst guests from south of the
border with an animal thatbelieve you all buzzing.
You won't want to miss it.
So until next time, get outthere and explore the wild
because every species has astory and every one of us can
make a difference.
Thanks for listening.
And until next time happytrails.
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