May 5, 2025 • 45 mins
Jason Schreurs calls himself a “punk rock weirdo”, but he’s also a mental health group facilitator, writer, creator, advocate, podcast host and someone who lives with bipolar disorder. You could say that bipolar and punk come together in a unique and exciting way in Jason’s life and that “scream therapy” (the name of his podcast) is just one of the ways that Jason keeps and stays healthy, stable, and in recovery.
Jason has written two creative and unique personal essays for Recovery Diaries, one about his relationship with social media, “Social Media – Recovering from the Drug Addiction of the Nation” and his eloquent, artistic reflection on getting diagnosed with bipolar disorder, “A Fractured Journey: Feeling the Throes of Bipolar Disorder Before Diagnosis”, which Jason reads aloud on our podcast. For Jason, writing has always been a lifeline, something that he has used to help express himself for himself as well as communicate with and connect to others.
While Jason is an engaging podcast host on his own show, he’s just as good a guest on ours! In our conversation with Jason, he talks about what life was like before his diagnosis and how he is doing now; and Jason is thriving. His creativity has not diminished at all (even though some folks fear taking medication will take away their “juice”), he is helping others through his work as a bipolar support groups facilitator, and he continues to write and speak openly about his mental health, while still enjoying and making music.
You can find everything Jason (including his fabulous book, "Scream Therapy: A Punk Journey Through Mental Health" at screamtherapyhq.com!
This “punk rock weirdo” is the real deal, and we know you’ll enjoy his openness, his humor, and his heart. Don’t forget to like, share, and subscribe!
Conversations like the ones on this podcast can sometimes be hard, but they're always necessary. If you or someone you know is struggling, please consider visiting www.wannatalkaboutit.com. If you or someone you know is considering suicide, please call, text, or chat 988.
https://oc87recoverydiaries.org/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gabe Nathan (00:01):
Hello, this is Recovery Diaries In Depth.
I'm your host, Gabe Nathan.
Thanks so much for joining us.
We're very happy to have youhere.
I'm so happy to be welcoming tothe show.
He's a punk rock musician.
He's a two-time RecoveryDiaries essayist.
He's written essays for usabout recovering from social
(00:21):
media addiction and the essayhe's going to be reading today
talks about his diagnosis ofbipolar disorder and we're very
happy to have him here today.
Each week we'll bring you aRecovery Diaries contributor
folks who have shared theirmental health journey with us
through essay or video format.
We want to see where they arein their mental health journey
(00:42):
since initially being publishedon our website.
Our goal is to continuesupporting our diverse community
by having conversations here onour podcast to follow up and
see what has shifted, what haschanged and what new things have
emerged.
We're so happy to have youalong for this journey.
We want to remind you to followour show for new and back
(01:02):
episodes at recoverydiariesorg.
There, like the podcast, you'llfind stories of mental health,
empowerment and change.
You can also sign up for ourmailing list there so you never
miss a new podcast episode,essay or film, and you can find
this podcast pretty muchanywhere you get your podcasts.
We appreciate your comments andfeedback about our show.
It helps us improve, makechanges and grow.
(01:25):
And, of course, make sure tolike, share and subscribe.
Jason Schurz, thank you so muchfor joining us for this episode
of Recovery Diaries In-Depth.
Jason Schruers (01:40):
You're most welcome, Gabe.
Thanks for having me.
Gabe Nathan (01:42):
It is a pleasure and I'm excited to say that this
is our first go at video, soit's wonderful to see you and to
have you be seen by ourlisteners and followers of this
podcast.
So, like, yay for us for tryingsomething new and scary
Jason Schruers (02:00):
yeah, it's great .
Gabe Nathan (02:02):
And speaking of new and scary, I guess that's a
good way to start.
Um, writing about your mentalhealth, that can be scary.
Um, opening up about somethingso vulnerable.
Um, and you know that's what weask people to do all the time.
Uh, on recovery diaries, we'reasking you to sit down and share
(02:24):
a very vulnerable piece of you,and I know what it's like from
the other side.
I work with people on theiressays.
I, of course, read all theessays here and experiencing
them from that perspective it'svery hard, but you're the one
(02:45):
actually doing it, so can youtalk a little bit about what
that experience was like?
Jason Schruers (02:50):
Well, I've got a slightly different feeling
about it and because I was awriter, am a writer and have
been for so long that I feltlike it was.
Writing has always been for mea method of survival in the
sense that, you know, I feltlike I had to do it, I had to
get the ideas out of my head andI had to express myself.
I was doing that through mostlymusic writing, which is
(03:11):
actually quite constricting.
So I always felt like I was onthe precipice of, like getting
into more creative writing.
But writing essays like the onethat I wrote for OC87 Recovery
Diaries was it was almost like Ineeded to have something to
spew out at that point, becauseit was just such a hard, rough
place with depression and I feellike I had to have some sort of
(03:34):
a creative outlet.
And it was not to sound cool,but it was almost like it was
material right, it was somethingthat I actually could express
myself about and it was the onlything I could really express
about myself at the time.
So, um, you know it wasn't hardreally.
I mean it was.
I think the purge was more andmore of a release and it was
actually, uh, made it reallyquite smooth and, um, I just
(03:58):
needed to get it out and I thinkthat was the way that I had to
do it.
Gabe Nathan (04:09):
Um, it was harder to sit and wallow in things and
be like by myself and bedepressed than it was to just to
put it out there.
Do you think, while you were inthat place of sort of as you
put it sitting and wallowing inthose feelings, were you looking
for outlets?
Were you looking for ways toget it out?
Were you looking for ways toget it out.
Jason Schruers (04:25):
At that point it was really all I could do.
I mean, I still was doing somemusic stuff.
It was really rough, Likecoming out of a diagnosis like
that.
It was like really like on thecouch, can't get up, you know,
splitting headaches.
You know I had a psychoticepisode, so that's compared to a
head injury.
You know, it was like reallygetting bludgeoned by a, by a
cinder block, you know, and andso I think, uh, the other
(04:48):
outlets really fell to the sideand I had a really hard time
writing too.
I just I basically gave up onit.
I thought I'm not going tobother doing this anymore.
It's just not fulfilling me.
One of the things aboutdepression is you start to not
enjoy anything that you used toenjoy, and writing was a huge
enjoyment for me.
So, yeah, it was really justabout, like I said, almost a
survival technique.
I knew how to write.
(05:08):
I'd done it my whole life, soI'll get to the keyboard and
whatever comes out, and at leastI'm getting something out, and
the rest of those activitiesthat I was really into kind of
just fell away.
Gabe Nathan (05:20):
Has things come back for you since then?
Yes, huge, hugely.
What was that process like?
Finding those things again Slowdifficult, painful.
Jason Schruers (05:36):
I slowly brought in things that I was interested
in doing, but there was a newlens to it, because, of course,
a lot of that was mental health,whereas I never really spoke
about that before.
There were, you know, therewere kind of like flashes of
things that I saw in my writingin retrospect, but I never
really tackled mental health asbeing a thing in my life.
And so, you know, all of asudden, I was really taking that
(05:58):
on, learning a lot aboutbipolar, which I was diagnosed
with in 2018, learning a lotabout things like support groups
and different modalities oftherapy and CBT and all those
kinds of things, and really justimmersing myself in it.
So that's kind of how I got tolike a sort of a stable place.
And then after that I, you know, got back into the bands and I
(06:19):
got back into the writing and Igot back into the podcasting and
all those things as well.
As you know, things like playingtennis or like just sort of,
you know, going for hikes, thoseall came back slowly and now
I'm at a place where, you know,the mental health stuff is still
there and I'm very involvedwith advocacy and things like
that, but it's not like aconstant, like I'm depressed.
(06:41):
I'm depressed, I want to die, Iwant to.
It was.
You know it's like more.
I know that it's an issue I'mdealing with, but I'm managing
it rather than just likefighting it.
You know there's a certainamount of like giving in and
realizing.
You know this has to be dealtwith.
Gabe Nathan (06:55):
Well, it's right, it's, it's living with the thing
.
I feel like a lot of peoplethink that recovery is, oh, I'm
recovered and you know, now Idon't have to deal with this
anymore.
But it really is a certainamount of acceptance of like,
okay, this thing is here, um, Iam living with this mental
(07:16):
health challenge.
It is a part of me, um, and Iknow that.
So I live with anxiety anddepression and so much of my
life has been, I feel, wasted ina way, spent fighting those two
(07:36):
issues and pushing up againstthem and railing against them
and having them control me andme resisting that.
But as I get older and havelearned, okay, this shit isn't
going away, no matter how hard Ikick and scream, right, it's
more about just accepting thatthey're here and learning to
live the best life that you canwith that.
(07:59):
I don't know if that's beensimilar for you in some way.
Jason Schruers (08:03):
Oh, exactly, I mean, that's basically what I
would have said.
You know, one of the thingsthat I really learned around
language when it comes to mentalhealth issues and I learned
this through other people that Italked to on the podcast was
that you know, like turning itaround and saying like, okay,
what am I recovering from?
Like, where am I trying to get?
Am I trying to get back to theway I was before being diagnosed
(08:23):
, because that was horrible andthat was also really scary and
awful, and, you know, am Itrying to find something new?
And so you know more of atransformation language than a
recovery language, becausereally this is the chance for
you to change and to bepotentially, well, obviously, a
different person, but kind ofpushing through instead of
pushing against it, kind ofpushing through it.
(08:46):
And I think now you know I'm atotally different person than I
was before.
I mean, I'm still me, like I'mstill got all those same, you
know, like traits and stuff, butit's way more controlled,
that's way more measured and Ithink the things that I'm doing
now make a lot more sense.
Yeah, I pulled off some likewild stuff when I was
undiagnosed, like I mean I wasdoing cool things.
But now I'm still doing coolthings, uh, but I'm doing them
(09:09):
in a way that makes a bit moresense or or is more realistic to
to my life.
Gabe Nathan (09:15):
So that's something that I want to touch on that I
think is really important totalk about.
Um, you're a very creativeperson, you know.
You're into music and writingand all these different creative
endeavors, and I think there'sthis seductive thing about
bipolar disorder with mania,where creative people are like,
(09:37):
oh wow, well, when I'm hypomanic, shit's really good and I'm
creating all the time and I'mstaying up till 3am and I'm
doing all this amazing stuff, um, and then, you know, hypomania
slides very scarily into fullblown mania.
Um, but people do talk abouthow it feels good, and
(10:01):
especially creative people haveheard this.
What is helping you?
I'm assuming you're onmedication, correct?
Jason Schruers (10:09):
Yeah.
Gabe Nathan (10:10):
Okay, so what is helping you maintain and being
able to say, yes, I did pull offsome wild stuff when I was
unmedicated and untreated, butthis is better and I'm not
tempted to play with fire.
Jason Schruers (10:27):
Really, yeah Well, I mean, that also is
something that I've thought alot about and talked to about
people in the podcast that comeon but what I've realized is
that, yes, when you'reunmedicated, undiagnosed and
don't know what's going on andyou're suffering through huge
bouts of depression, huge boutsof like mania Okay, so most
(10:48):
people with bipolar have kind ofa half and half-ish thing.
I mean, some people have, youknow, like months or even years
of depression and then maybelike a week of mania.
But a lot of the people thathave bipolar that I know and I
know for myself, we're dealingwith a kind of a half and half.
That's kind of the whole ideais, you know you're going like,
you know, depression mania, andso when you're depressed you
don't want to do anything, soyou're not creating anything.
(11:10):
When you're depressed you mightbe wallowing, you might be
writing some thoughts down, youmight be like struggling with
stuff and you know a lot of goodart comes out of struggle as
well but you're really notcreating or outputting anything.
And when you're manic, you'redoing all kinds of stuff.
You're staying up all night andyou're writing, you know, like
an album worth of songs in threehours, or whatever you're doing
.
You know you're running allover the place at parties.
(11:31):
Um, so you're, you're getting alot accomplished when you're
manic, but it may not always bestuff that you can hold on to or
use in the end.
Right, it might just be likepipe dream type stuff.
One of the things like that mademe like incoherent and
delusional, right, like a lot ofthe stuff that I was doing was
was just like blah, you know, itwas like there wasn't a lot
(11:54):
that I could hold on to in theend.
Um, and so I think the you knowthere's misconception about
okay, well, I'm going to besuper creative if I'm off my
medication.
I'm going to be super creativeand do all these things.
And you're only working on ahalf time, first of all, and the
stuff you are doing when you'remanic can be quite
unpredictable and not reallycool, but maybe way too cool,
(12:15):
you know.
So, and a lot of people that Ideal with, like I do a support
group that I facilitate forbipolar folks, and a lot of
these people talk about, yes,like I'm feeling quite flat.
You know, I may not bedepressed, I may not be manic, I
may be like what we call stable, but I'm just like flatline in
it, right.
So you know, let's try, like,let's see what I can do if I,
(12:36):
you know, maybe I'll go off mymeds because it feels so great
to be manic, or maybe I feelgood on hypomania and start to
feel kind of like really in thegroove.
Well, let's just see how far Ican go with this before before
things go sour and things do gosour for a lot of people, you
know you end up in the hospitalor sometimes worse or worse, so
yeah, so I think yeah, it's allabout.
(12:56):
I wouldn't say boring, but Iwould say like more measured.
One of the guys in my groupalways says, always says, hey, a
boring day is a great day, youknow, for a, for a person with
bipolar.
Gabe Nathan (13:07):
But yeah, no handcuffs, no restraints, no
forced medication.
Jason Schruers (13:11):
Boring give, give me boring, that's great
yeah, but boring with, let'scall it boring, I call it.
You know, stable um.
With that comes a lot of reallygreat stuff, like I'm in a band
now where I've written songsthat I never would have written
when I was.
When I was manic, I was,everything was just all about
like performance, art stuff,like smashing things and
screaming and, you know, likeimprovisational weirdness, and
(13:34):
now I write songs that I'mactually like hey, this is a
good song.
You know, it's.
It's.
It's really fun to be in wherethings feel realistic, I guess.
How did you get into music?
Oh well, when I was a kid I gotinto music through, mostly
through actually throughskateboarding.
(13:54):
You know, getting toskateboarding and really
enjoying the thrill of that andthen kind of finding music.
That was, you know, kind of inalignment with that, so a lot of
punk, rock and metal.
But I was quite young, I usedto my parents had music and, you
know, kind of in alignment withthat.
So a lot of punk, rock andmetal.
But I was quite young, I used tomy parents had music and you
know they played it around thehouse.
And then I remember I had abirthday party where I only
invited one person to thebirthday party and my rule was
(14:14):
like you have to buy me an album.
And he bought me a Tina Turneralbum and I was like super
stoked Wow, I've just alwaysloved music.
It quite quickly got into, youknow, the I've just always loved
music.
It quite quickly got into theheavy and the fast and the
screamy and that was kind ofwhat I needed.
I needed to have that outlet.
I needed to hear back what Iwas hearing in my head, which
was a lot of anguish when I wasyounger too.
(14:35):
So, yeah, this is how I foundit, and I never really looked
back.
I've been doing this musicstuff for a long long time,
decades and decades now, so it'smeant to be.
Gabe Nathan (14:46):
Yeah, and I know that they're intertwined.
Jason Schruers (14:53):
But my next question is about writing.
Yeah, yeah, same thing.
I remember when I was readingmagazines when I was a kid, I
always thought at that pointit's like I want to write about
music, I don't want to be inbands, I want to describe about
music, I don't want to be inbands.
You know, I want to, I want to,I want to describe and be
creative.
And that quickly got into, youknow, volunteering for a bunch
of magazines that were writingabout music and I just kind of
went with it.
And you know I was just doing alot of that stuff and I think,
(15:17):
you know, I always kind ofwanted to be a writer when I was
a kid.
I remember writing things forEnglish class and stuff and
thinking that's what I want todo.
But I think until I found themusic angle, it didn't really
make a lot of sense.
Like I wasn't thinking I'mgoing to write a novel when I'm
older.
I was thinking like I want towrite about stuff that I care
about.
Gabe Nathan (15:35):
And the support group that you facilitate.
I mean, I know I read in yourbio that you did that and I was
like, oh, I wonder if he's stilldoing that, because it's been,
you know, quite a while.
Yeah, um, can you talk a littlebit about how you got into that
?
Um, you know is, did you usesupport groups in your recovery
group therapy?
Um, and you know what was itlike to become a facilitator?
(15:57):
What's it been like?
Jason Schruers (15:59):
Oh, it's been amazing.
We actually just had our weeklymeeting last night.
It's just, it's so validating.
I never feel like I'm beinglike the leader of anything,
even though I call it directingtraffic, you know, like okay,
you're next, or whatever.
But I always feel on totalequal terms with these people.
Some of them I just completelyadmire for what they've done in
their journey of living withbipolar, sometimes for 30, 40
(16:20):
years, for 30, 40 years.
Other folks I'm super inspiredby because they've just been
diagnosed, even last week, andthey're right in the thick of it
, and so it's an amazingexperience.
The reason I got into it isbecause when I was coming out of
the hospital, one of the veryfirst things I did was go to a
support group at the hospitaland I walked in and thought,
okay, well, because when you getdiagnosed with something,
(16:41):
especially with me, I'd neverreally heard of bipolar before,
which is wild because I gotdiagnosed in my mid-40s.
And so to walk into a room andrealize that you know, oh, wait
a second, there's 12 people inthis room and they're all
dealing with things too.
Because, you know, I think myimage was I walk in and just be
like me and one other person andwe both just cry or something.
It wasn't like this feeling ofsupport.
(17:02):
Like this feeling of supportFrom there, I just went and got
training so I could do my owngroups, because I felt like I
kind of knew how they workedafter being at that one for a
while and I thought, hey, thisis a chance for me to volunteer.
You know, volunteering isamazing for folks that are
living with mental health issuesbecause, of course, all of a
sudden, that creates a purpose.
I have things that I can do andI can.
(17:23):
You know, I can kind of beunderstood at the same time.
Gabe Nathan (17:30):
Since you were published here.
I mean, it's been a while.
I know you have two essays onthe site, but it's been some
time.
What has changed for you?
Jason Schruers (17:42):
Well, it's interesting because I mean
looking at this article or essaythat I wrote for you.
Well, it's interesting becauseI mean looking at this, this, uh
, this article or essay that Iwrote for you guys, um, it's
hard to read it because it'slike things have changed so much
.
You know, I remember it and Iknow that it it rings true for
me in that, in that space, but,yeah, it's like, okay, was it me
that wrote that?
Like you know, yes, I know thatit was and it does.
(18:06):
It is about me and there's somestuff in it about like my life
and I know the things that I'vedone, but it's just like my, my
outlook is so different.
You know, like I don't feellike my depression's getting
nearly as bad as they used to,and so I'm trying to identify
with a person, whatever fouryears ago, whatever it was, that
was just in so much pain and somuch existential crisis, and
(18:29):
now I feel like I belong in mylife.
I know what I've, you know, Iknow what I'm doing and I know
why I'm here, and so, yeah, itwas tough to to look back on
that.
Yeah, things have changed huge.
You know.
It's to use the bipolar sort ofsignal.
It's like you know, if you gothe ups and the downs of bipolar
, it's like you know, like allof a sudden, now I'm totally,
(18:52):
I've totally completely, likeyou know, um, uh, closed that
gap that used to be there and,uh, that's been a very slow
process.
You know, I keep charts for my,for my moods, every day and if
I look at all of them over thecourse of that four years, I can
see how that slowly has comeback to the middle of stability.
And that's a very slow, longprocess, but it's really cool to
(19:16):
see it on paper.
Gabe Nathan (19:18):
So you mentioned something that I wanted to talk
about too, so we'll talk aboutit now.
You're talking about the chartsthat you keep.
Do you call them mood charts,or yeah?
Jason Schruers (19:28):
mood charts.
Gabe Nathan (19:29):
Yeah, so you know you're on medication, you're
obviously seeing somebody tomonitor medication and are you
in like talk therapy too?
Jason Schruers (19:40):
Yeah, yeah, I do somatic therapy, which, but
it's still Okay, talk about that.
Yeah, yeah, I do somatictherapy, but it's still Okay,
talk about that yeah, yeah, oh.
Somatic therapy is just likebody-based.
So you close your eyes and kindof start to feel your body and
look at places that are holdingtension and then kind of look,
except that you're not.
You're not talking as much, butof course with me I'm a talker,
(20:07):
so I go in there and I talk forthe first 25 minutes of an hour
session and then we get into it.
Gabe Nathan (20:12):
Okay, jason, close your eyes now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know if you do, but-.
Jason Schruers (20:17):
It's hard to just be present in the body and
not just be thinking the wholetime about stuff and yeah, yeah,
but it is.
I've really I thought.
I think it's been reallyvaluable.
But I think it's way more of anorganic process that a lot of
people would think.
You know, you, you don't comeout of there with like grand
revelations, but I think becauseyou're, you're in your body and
you're kind of releasingdifferent parts and different
(20:37):
things slowly over the course of, because I used to think, hey,
this isn't working, like, what abunch of like.
I come out of here and I feellike nothing happened.
But after being in it forseveral years, I can see how my
system is really settled andbipolar.
Of course, you know you got adysregulation in your system as
well.
You know things can get reallyhairy.
Gabe Nathan (20:57):
So what helped you stick with it?
Because I'm very much like this, you know, like if I think
something's bullshit or I justdecide arbitrarily something's
not working for me, I can giveup very quickly.
Jason Schruers (21:12):
So I'm curious about how you kind of comforted
that impulse in your mind tostay well, a huge thing is, and
I'm sure you know in the statesit's a huge thing.
A huge thing is and I'm sureyou know in the States it's a
huge thing, more so than inCanada, because I'm living up
here is that it was free.
So I think if I had to pay forit, I probably wouldn't have
gone back.
I would have been like you knowwhat the value isn't here.
(21:34):
I'm paying $100 a session and Ijust can't justify it because
I'm you know, I'm, I'm a lowincome, so but uh, I was given a
lot of sessions through thevictim assistance program, uh,
you know, in relation tochildhood abuse, so like I got
all these free sessions and andthen when I was done those, the
therapist was like you know what?
I'm just going to keep you on apro bono.
(21:55):
So, yeah, that was a huge thing,I think.
I think it was just like, uh,being stubborn and just thinking
you know what, like thisdoesn't feel like it's really
doing anything, but like let'sjust keep doing it and see what
happens.
And you know, I was able to getout a lot of um, you know, like
trauma stuff too, like near thebeginning, and that was like,
okay, you know this is, thiscan't be bad.
Um, what ended up happening isit really went into more, like I
(22:18):
said, the system-based bodystuff, and I don't want to go
half the time.
I'm like this is whatever, butwhenever I go, I feel like I did
something for myself.
You know, you come out oftherapy I do with like a big
headache and you're like well,why?
Gabe Nathan (22:33):
did.
I do that Sometimes yeah.
Jason Schruers (22:35):
But I can see how it's beneficial and even if
it's just talk therapy for anhour, I'm still getting placed
to vent, even if it's just talktherapy for an hour, I'm still
getting placed to vent.
Gabe Nathan (22:44):
When you were first diagnosed with bipolar, do you
remember resisting it, resistingthe diagnosis, or did
everything kind of click, or wasit something else for you?
Jason Schruers (23:03):
It was like no resistance at all.
A lot of people deal with that,you know.
A lot of people deal with like,hey, this isn't, this isn't a
thing.
Or for me it was just like oh,this is like, this is what it is
, this is what's been going on,cause I always felt like I was
super weird.
I was doing a lot of thingsthat were kind of against my you
know my morals and ethics too.
Like I was like this isn't me.
Like you know, I'm a goodperson.
Why am I doing this thing?
And it was a total explanationfor what was going on, because I
(23:25):
was really obviously reallyscared, like I didn't know why I
was having all these delusionsand then was in a psychotic
episode.
I didn't know why I was.
You know, before that I wasdepressed, sometimes for four
months.
You know, I didn't know,understand what was going on.
Gabe Nathan (24:03):
No-transcript that it clicked um and that you got
what you needed.
A little late in life maybe,but sometimes things happen when
they need to.
Um, yeah, and since we'retalking about that diagnosis,
(24:24):
what a nice way to segue intoyour essay, which I'm very
excited to have you read.
It is called A FracturedJourney Feeling the Throes of
Bipolar Disorder.
Before Diagnosis and wheneveryou're ready, I'll just have you
take it away.
Jason Schruers (24:41):
Processing 1.
Once upon a time there was aman who felt like he didn't
deserve happiness, so hesabotaged everything and lived
in misery until he died.
Wonderful things happened tohim.
Wonderful people came into hislife.
He turned that wonder intomisery and ended up alone and
afraid.
The happy ending does not exist.
(25:03):
Processing 2.
Once upon a time there was aman who lived a happy life,
loved by many.
This man was able to find peacein his life.
He didn't ruminate on hisdecisions and instinctively knew
what to say and do to findhappiness.
He was a born leader who wasable to inspire people and
(25:24):
himself.
Everything he set out to do inhis life he did with hard work
and passion.
The happy ending does exist.
Depression 1.
I'm wallowing in the misery ofbeing alive, a selfish idiot who
only cares about himself andisn't able to make even the
simplest choices in order tofeel better.
I should be able to allow thosearound me to feel my positive
(25:47):
energy instead of this sick,miserable, wallowing negativity.
Why can't I just be happy?
Depression 2.
How many times can I fuck upbefore I give up?
I want to crawl in a hole anddie.
I feel like the world's biggestfailure and have no purpose on
this earth other than to screwthings up and make things worse.
(26:08):
The only thing keeping me hereis my family and friends, and
I'm not even sure they miss me.
At this point I am such a wasteof space and I want to die.
I feel like I'm craftingsomething dramatic here so
someone else can read this andhelp me.
I am fucked and I don't knowhow to fix myself.
I can feel the weight ofdepression pinning me down and
(26:30):
rubbing my face in the dirt.
I don't know what to do.
Existentialism I'm feeling a bitbetter.
The medication dulls myemotions and I don't have the
same urges to disappear.
My head constantly aches fromthe stress, but feelings of
worthlessness fade through theday.
It's always the hardest when Ifirst wake up.
(26:53):
The morning walk helps todistract me, but when I come
home it hits me hard.
What am I doing with my life?
Where am I going?
What was I put here to do?
What is my purpose?
I can't do the simplest ofthings to keep myself occupied.
Looking at job postings istorture, because I know I can't
bring myself to do anything.
It feels like I'm on a planetfull of people who all have jobs
(27:16):
and purposes, while I wanderaround with no reason for being
here.
Regular life distracts me, butI sit here aimless while
everyone else is working.
The answers aren't gettingclearer.
I'm not looking for them.
Hope I know the answers, butI'm still not coming any closer
to finding them.
I have a bunch of options, butall of them involve doing
(27:39):
something.
I have had a problem withrumination for as long as I can
remember.
When I try to make a decision,I freeze.
It could be whether to start anew career or what to make for
dinner.
Either way, I freeze in mytracks.
That's a constant in my life.
I'm acutely familiar with theconcept of fly traps, but if a
friend reaches out to me to gofor a walk, I spring into action
(28:01):
.
I don't have to think about it,I just do it.
I can often use a serious jolt.
I've read aboutelectroconvulsive therapy to
reboot the brain, but isn't thata little bit extreme?
My counselor says I havesituational depression.
Electricity coursing through mybody doesn't sound like the
proper treatment, but still ashock could shake me loose.
(28:26):
Maybe I'm shutting down afterso many years of moving so fast.
I've been going hard since I was14, and spent years writing and
editing for music magazines,more than I can recall right now
.
I held down full-time jobs atnewspapers that stretched way
into overtime, helped raise fourkids, booked punk shows and ran
a punk rock mail order allhappening at the same time.
(28:46):
The amount of work I used to doon a daily basis amazes me now.
How did I get it all done?
So many projects, so many ideas, busy work, typing, data entry,
writing and editing for 12hours a day, packaging up all
those music mail orders all ofit every single day, morning to
evening, then again at night.
No peace of mind never for longat least.
(29:07):
Now I'm here and it's just memyself and I sitting at a
keyboard and failing to ridmyself of this infection.
This busy life that stuck withme for decades and feels
impossible to shake Did yearsand years of overworking myself
and letting stress consume meput me deep into this hole.
If I slow down too much, will Ibe eaten alive or survive the
(29:29):
mauling, questioning, trying toclear my mind?
Most thoughts are past orfuture, where I trap myself.
Either I regret the past orworry about the future.
Present is real life.
Things are happening right nowthat deserve my attention.
Things will make me happy again, but I'm too blind to see them.
(29:49):
Smiles feel nice, this isproven.
Worry doesn't feel good, thisis proven.
How do I calibrate myself tomaximum enjoyment?
Running away on fancy vacations, following punk bands around on
tour, burying myself in anotherjob so I can justify doing
these things on my vacations?
Maybe I need to figure out thathappiness bit first.
(30:14):
Desperation Maybe I'm gettingbetter.
It feels like I could be, buthonestly I have no idea at this
point.
I am completely exhausted frommonths of worry and stress.
I wake up every day hit withoverwhelming anxiety and
depression.
My first thoughts are usuallyabout the dread of another day
or how soon I can go back to bed.
The anxiety makes my heart jumpat everyday sounds and
(30:36):
movements.
The depression feels like apile of chain mail thrown over
me.
I'm stumbling through a fog ofemotional pain Loneliness,
vulnerability, guilt, shame,remorse, sadness, boredom, a
general sense of negativity, theforced smile on my face crushed
by a blood-curdling scream ofwhy won't anyone fucking help me
(30:57):
?
When you see me laugh, pleasecherish it, because I can't.
Realization Maybe I'm meant tobe a nobody, an unspoken hero.
Even Someone who goes to work,doesn't stress, then goes home
and lives a peaceful life.
People remember the person, notthe things they do.
(31:18):
Is that true?
If I can be who I've alwayswanted to be a stable husband,
father, brother, son, friendmaybe what I do isn't as
important as the person I am.
Maybe the things I do are justa bonus.
Maybe anything extra is justthe icing, and maybe that icing
doesn't have to be sickly sweet.
Maybe I'm meant to help peopleout when they need it, stick up
(31:40):
for what is right and spend timewith and put effort into people
that deserve it.
Maybe being a nobody is thegoal.
For so many years I've put valueon what people think of me,
what my status means to thosearound me.
I've had a fear of abandonmentand being harmed since childhood
, sexual abuse, and I've spentmy life trying to please others
instead of taking care of myself.
I'm finally ready to be thatnobody who only wants to be
(32:11):
known as a somebody to the onesI love.
That starts with myselfDiagnosis.
Yesterday I found out that Ihave bipolar, formerly known as
manic depression.
Thinking back, this explains alot.
Reading back on my writing, itbecomes clear A lot of what I
wrote had depression and maniapeeking through cries from help
from between the lines.
When I was depressed, mywriting was dark, seen through a
(32:34):
lens of despair.
When I was manic, Iecstatically pounded on my
keyboard.
Everything was awesome.
Knowing what I've been livingwith for all these years
explains a lot of my struggles,but that comes with mixed
feelings and uncertainty.
With for all these yearsexplains a lot of my struggles,
but that comes with mixedfeelings and uncertainty.
But I'm used to that.
I think back on my life andcan't rub away all my bad
decisions or shameful behavior,but I can find ways to explain
them.
Now my diagnosis has openedpathways in my brain.
(32:56):
Clarity may just be what mydecades of confusion need.
I feel like writing somethinglike wish me luck on this
incredible journey, but thatfeels way too optimistic and
super cheesy.
Once upon a time there was aman who lived with bipolar.
He'll be happy to take anending with mixed results.
Gabe Nathan (33:18):
Jason, thank you so much for reading that and for
writing that.
No problem, jason, thank you somuch for reading that and for
writing that.
No problem.
My favorite line is when yousee me laugh, please cherish it,
because I can't.
It's a real a minute to collectmyself after hearing that piece
(33:56):
, which I think is a good thing,which I think is a good thing.
The way the essay feels to meis it feels like a lifetime.
You know the essay.
It's a smallish snapshot oftime, but it feels like you're
(34:19):
writing your entire lifetime.
Up until yesterday, I wasdiagnosed with bipolar disorder.
Is that how it?
Jason Schruers (34:28):
feels to you.
Hmm, I hadn't really thoughtabout it like that.
No, I don't think so.
I'm glad that you know a personthat hears it or reads it is
thinking that because it makes alot of sense.
I think a lot of people'sjourneys is like there's so much
before a diagnosis, that is iskind of almost uh, uh, it feels
like it's everlasting, like it'sgoing to be that way forever,
(34:50):
and then, you know, thediagnosis is kind of that
realization moment.
Um, I think for me it wasreally like what's going to come
out here, like what?
What am I struggling with, youknow?
And I think one of the themesthat comes up in the essay is
like what is my purpose?
What am I supposed to be doingright now?
I know it's not laying on thecouch with a brutal headache and
feeling like I want to die.
(35:11):
I know it's not like being on awalk and dragging myself around
and thinking I want to run intothe forest and never come back.
That's not why I'm here.
That's my mental health issuestalking Right.
So I think it was more about,you know, just kind of trying to
find sense in what had happenedbefore, but more in a way of
(35:33):
like a lot of things came upwhen I was first diagnosed
around.
You know, like one of the bigthings is when I was working a
really stressful job and lotsand lots of hours and there's
all these other things going on.
So I was trying to sort of geta snapshot of what was it, what
it was like in that part of mylife.
But I think by doing that it'snatural to go back and sort of
(35:55):
recapture what had happenedbefore that.
So I think it was like almostat the same time it was like one
like snapshot, but also thatbroadened out to other things
and I think I think a readerwould be more inclined to see
that than me, because I was justlike, I was trying to be in the
moment.
I was in the moment andwhatever comes out comes out.
Gabe Nathan (36:15):
Yeah, and I'm very grateful for what did come out.
I'm very grateful for what didcome out because I think it's
such a beautiful piece and Ithink especially your
descriptions of what thosedepressive pockets feel like.
I'm reading a mental healthessay, but the first draft at
(36:44):
least.
A lot of people are writingthings like you know the dark
cloud of depression, or you know, battling my demon in the dark,
and you, just you have such afresh and very earnest and very
un-cliched way of bringingpeople to understand what that
feels like, with a lot of artand a lot of heart also.
(37:06):
So I just wanted to recognizethat I think, I don't know, we
asked people to write theseessays, and just because you
live with a mental healthchallenge doesn't necessarily
mean that you're a greatstoryteller, um, but you have
such a facility with words, um,so I just wanted to tip my hat
(37:28):
to you.
Um, there, it's just such abeautiful essay to listen to.
Jason Schruers (37:32):
Thanks, yeah, I think it.
If you're a writer and you andyou're artistic and you you
write, as your writing is verycreative and you're not falling
into some of the same cliches no, everybody has cliches in their
writing I'm just as guilty.
But I think if and I think whatI was thinking, as you're
saying that is like I'm a punkrocker, right, like punks do
(37:53):
things the way they want to dothem and screw it all if you
don't like it, and I think thatreally inspired my writing.
And I wrote a book about punkrock and mental health as well,
called Scream Therapy, and thewhole thing is in that style.
You know it's, it's very muchlike in your face and people
read it and like whoa, um, but Ican't do it any other way, and
(38:13):
so, um, unconventional would bethe word.
You know, like, like my writingis is unconventional, and
that's what.
That's what draws a lot ofpeople to it.
It's like it's not the same,it's, it's just like it's, it's
almost a, it's a challenge, Iguess, to to.
I don't know, I feel like I'mblowing my own horn now, but
(38:34):
it's, it's a challenge toconventional, conventional
writing in some ways.
Gabe Nathan (38:38):
I mean it's what drew me.
I know we're all in thesparrows, but I feel like I have
some.
Jason Schruers (38:42):
I've got some sort of spark.
Gabe Nathan (38:44):
Yeah, and it's what drew me to you.
When I got your firstsubmission, and you know, I knew
there was something unique andexciting here.
So I don't think it's tootin'your own head, and if it is
tootin' your own fucking horn,who cares?
That's okay.
Nothing wrong with that Havingwrong with that.
Jason Schruers (38:58):
Um, having said that, I really don't, having
said that I really don't likethe piece anymore, like I'm glad
people like it, and I thinkit's natural for a writer not to
look back on a something theywrote it four or five years ago
and be like, oh, I hateeverything I've ever written
except the very last piece.
Gabe Nathan (39:14):
I've written whatever's newest I like and
then in a couple weeks I won'tlike that anymore either.
So I understand, yeah, um, my,I have two, two questions before
we go.
You know you were talking about, you know, being a punk
musician and you know it's it'smy way, or the highway.
How did you parse that withworking with an editor?
(39:39):
Cause you worked with Evan forboth of your essays.
So in the one sense, it's likeI want to be unconstrained and I
want to say everything my way,but you're also working with an
editor.
Um, so what was that like foryou, if you remember?
Jason Schruers (39:50):
I think I've always been pretty good with
that.
Um, I've had some, some badeditors over the years and I
went to butt heads with them.
But I think it for me it's moreabout like, I'm putting it out
there and now it's not reallymine anymore, right, like I've
written it, it was mine, it was,and then now it's out, and so
(40:10):
if an editor wants to work withthat and find the strengths and
the weaknesses and beconstructive with their
criticism and be really coolwith their, you know, whatever
changes they want me to make,then I feel like, okay, well,
that's, it's great to havesomeone else's opinion on it.
You know, um, when I was manic,everything I wrote was the best
Genius.
Of course, when I was depressed, the stuff I had to struggle to
(40:31):
get out was awful.
So to have a, to have anobjective opinion, um, you know
it's, it's great.
So to me that was an opportunityand luckily I always worked
with, you know, like more like,um, alternative publications and
stuff too.
It wasn't, you know, it wasn'twriting for the New York times
or something, and so that was.
That was a blessing as well.
(40:56):
Um, but ultimately it was itwas more about okay, it's out in
the world.
It's not really mine anymore.
You know I wrote it, but it'snot my property In a sense of
like intellectual or likeemotional property.
Gabe Nathan (41:05):
Yeah, Last question what are you excited about,
what are you looking forward toin your life In the short term,
in the long term?
Just in general.
Jason Schruers (41:18):
Just living it really.
I mean, I've got projects thatI'm working on that I'm excited
about, but I'm excited aboutbeing stable and actually one of
the most glorious things thatI'm excited about is that
sometimes I don't think aboutbipolar.
I don't think that I'm livingwith it, I don't think this is a
bipolar symptom, I don't think,and that was just such a
(41:38):
consuming like that's all Ithought about every single day,
every single minute, and it waslike trying to figure out ways
to deal with it.
You know, like, oh, I'm feelinga little bit excited.
I'm like, oh, is this mania?
Like questioning myself, notaccepting it, like not accepting
that, the fact that I'm notaccepting not that I wasn't
accepting the diagnosis more,like you know, I can't accept
(42:00):
that this is happening to mylife right now.
Like you know, it's like reallya lot of like just stuff that
interfere with my day to day.
So I'm really excited aboutjust being stable, managing the
diagnosis, knowing that if Ihave some symptoms that I can I
know what they are now and I canI can work with them.
(42:21):
And you know, it's really coolto be like feeling quite low and
like, and then kind of justbeing able to pull out of that
without really knowing it,whereas before it was like I'm
feeling low.
I'm feeling low, I'm feelingthe worst, I'm feeling awful, I
want to die like it was just thespiral.
Um, so, yeah, I'm excited aboutliving and I'm excited about,
you know, the the projects I'mhere and there.
I've got a music festivalcoming up in August in town here
(42:43):
that I'm putting on.
I'm excited about being in theband we're jamming later today
in the old jam space behind mehere, you know, excited about my
partner and our relationship.
Excited about, yeah, everythingthat wasn't everything.
That's real.
You know, when you're manic,you draw up all kinds of plans.
(43:04):
They don't make any senseusually, and so those were
things that I was excited about.
But then now I realize, hey,wait a second.
Like, yeah, I'm excited, butI'm also doing it, like I'm also
doing the work and I'm I'mbeing, I'm being, uh, realistic
about things.
So, yeah, it's more of anoverall outlook that I'm excited
about than specific things.
Gabe Nathan (43:26):
That's wonderful.
I'm excited for you.
I'm excited for everythingthat's real for you.
Take us home by lettingeveryone know where they can
find you, where can they findyour music, where can they find
your podcast, your book.
Jason Schruers (43:43):
I've got everything at screamtherapyHQcom
.
So ScreamTherapyHQ as inheadquarters, dot com, the book
is, you know, petering down withsales.
But you know, I just got areview yesterday from someone
over in UK and they were superstoked on it.
So if people get it it's stillthere for them, kind of like
with the essay.
You know, like, yeah, it feelsold to me but new to other
(44:06):
people.
And then the podcast is thereas well.
You know podcasts, you can findit in all the different
platforms.
But if you want to go to theactual, website.
It's screamtherapyhq.
com
Gabe Nathan (44:23):
Awesome, Thank you so so much for joining us us
today.
It was so wonderful to spendsome time with you.
Jason Schruers (44:25):
You're most welcome.
It was good to to talk to youagain and I really enjoy working
with you.
Uh, for the two essays that Iwrote
Gabe Nathan (44:32):
Maybe there's a third in the can somewhere down
the line.
We'll see.
Thank you, Jason.
Thank you again for joining usin conversation today.
It's beautiful to see theprogression of our contributors,
and that was Jason Schreurs.
Musician, health journalist,creative writer and
(44:53):
self-proclaimed punk weirdo.
He also lives with bipolardisorder and he hosts and
produces the internationallyrenowned podcast Scream Therapy,
which you can find anywhere youget podcasts and on
ScreamTherapyHQ.
com.
Before we leave you, we want toremind you to check out our
website, recoverydiaries.
(45:13):
org.
There, like this podcast,you'll find additional stories,
videos and content about mentalhealth, empowerment and change.
We look forward to continuingto grow our community.
Thank you so much for being apart of it.
We wouldn't be here without you.
Be sure to join our mailinglist so you never miss a podcast
(45:35):
episode, essay or film.
I'm Gabe Nathan.
Until next time, take good care.
Hello, this is Recovery Diaries In Depth.
I'm your host, Gabe Nathan.
Thanks so much for joining us.
We're very happy to have youhere.
I'm so happy to be welcoming tothe show.
He's a punk rock musician.
He's a two-time RecoveryDiaries essayist.
He's written essays for usabout recovering from social
(00:21):
media addiction and the essayhe's going to be reading today
talks about his diagnosis ofbipolar disorder and we're very
happy to have him here today.
Each week we'll bring you aRecovery Diaries contributor
folks who have shared theirmental health journey with us
through essay or video format.
We want to see where they arein their mental health journey
(00:42):
since initially being publishedon our website.
Our goal is to continuesupporting our diverse community
by having conversations here onour podcast to follow up and
see what has shifted, what haschanged and what new things have
emerged.
We're so happy to have youalong for this journey.
We want to remind you to followour show for new and back
(01:02):
episodes at recoverydiariesorg.
There, like the podcast, you'llfind stories of mental health,
empowerment and change.
You can also sign up for ourmailing list there so you never
miss a new podcast episode,essay or film, and you can find
this podcast pretty muchanywhere you get your podcasts.
We appreciate your comments andfeedback about our show.
It helps us improve, makechanges and grow.
(01:25):
And, of course, make sure tolike, share and subscribe.
Jason Schurz, thank you so muchfor joining us for this episode
of Recovery Diaries In-Depth.
Jason Schruers (01:40):
You're most welcome, Gabe.
Thanks for having me.
Gabe Nathan (01:42):
It is a pleasure and I'm excited to say that this
is our first go at video, soit's wonderful to see you and to
have you be seen by ourlisteners and followers of this
podcast.
So, like, yay for us for tryingsomething new and scary
Jason Schruers (02:00):
yeah, it's great .
Gabe Nathan (02:02):
And speaking of new and scary, I guess that's a
good way to start.
Um, writing about your mentalhealth, that can be scary.
Um, opening up about somethingso vulnerable.
Um, and you know that's what weask people to do all the time.
Uh, on recovery diaries, we'reasking you to sit down and share
(02:24):
a very vulnerable piece of you,and I know what it's like from
the other side.
I work with people on theiressays.
I, of course, read all theessays here and experiencing
them from that perspective it'svery hard, but you're the one
(02:45):
actually doing it, so can youtalk a little bit about what
that experience was like?
Jason Schruers (02:50):
Well, I've got a slightly different feeling
about it and because I was awriter, am a writer and have
been for so long that I feltlike it was.
Writing has always been for mea method of survival in the
sense that, you know, I feltlike I had to do it, I had to
get the ideas out of my head andI had to express myself.
I was doing that through mostlymusic writing, which is
(03:11):
actually quite constricting.
So I always felt like I was onthe precipice of, like getting
into more creative writing.
But writing essays like the onethat I wrote for OC87 Recovery
Diaries was it was almost like Ineeded to have something to
spew out at that point, becauseit was just such a hard, rough
place with depression and I feellike I had to have some sort of
(03:34):
a creative outlet.
And it was not to sound cool,but it was almost like it was
material right, it was somethingthat I actually could express
myself about and it was the onlything I could really express
about myself at the time.
So, um, you know it wasn't hardreally.
I mean it was.
I think the purge was more andmore of a release and it was
actually, uh, made it reallyquite smooth and, um, I just
(03:58):
needed to get it out and I thinkthat was the way that I had to
do it.
Gabe Nathan (04:09):
Um, it was harder to sit and wallow in things and
be like by myself and bedepressed than it was to just to
put it out there.
Do you think, while you were inthat place of sort of as you
put it sitting and wallowing inthose feelings, were you looking
for outlets?
Were you looking for ways toget it out?
Were you looking for ways toget it out.
Jason Schruers (04:25):
At that point it was really all I could do.
I mean, I still was doing somemusic stuff.
It was really rough, Likecoming out of a diagnosis like
that.
It was like really like on thecouch, can't get up, you know,
splitting headaches.
You know I had a psychoticepisode, so that's compared to a
head injury.
You know, it was like reallygetting bludgeoned by a, by a
cinder block, you know, and andso I think, uh, the other
(04:48):
outlets really fell to the sideand I had a really hard time
writing too.
I just I basically gave up onit.
I thought I'm not going tobother doing this anymore.
It's just not fulfilling me.
One of the things aboutdepression is you start to not
enjoy anything that you used toenjoy, and writing was a huge
enjoyment for me.
So, yeah, it was really justabout, like I said, almost a
survival technique.
I knew how to write.
(05:08):
I'd done it my whole life, soI'll get to the keyboard and
whatever comes out, and at leastI'm getting something out, and
the rest of those activitiesthat I was really into kind of
just fell away.
Gabe Nathan (05:20):
Has things come back for you since then?
Yes, huge, hugely.
What was that process like?
Finding those things again Slowdifficult, painful.
Jason Schruers (05:36):
I slowly brought in things that I was interested
in doing, but there was a newlens to it, because, of course,
a lot of that was mental health,whereas I never really spoke
about that before.
There were, you know, therewere kind of like flashes of
things that I saw in my writingin retrospect, but I never
really tackled mental health asbeing a thing in my life.
And so, you know, all of asudden, I was really taking that
(05:58):
on, learning a lot aboutbipolar, which I was diagnosed
with in 2018, learning a lotabout things like support groups
and different modalities oftherapy and CBT and all those
kinds of things, and really justimmersing myself in it.
So that's kind of how I got tolike a sort of a stable place.
And then after that I, you know, got back into the bands and I
(06:19):
got back into the writing and Igot back into the podcasting and
all those things as well.
As you know, things like playingtennis or like just sort of,
you know, going for hikes, thoseall came back slowly and now
I'm at a place where, you know,the mental health stuff is still
there and I'm very involvedwith advocacy and things like
that, but it's not like aconstant, like I'm depressed.
(06:41):
I'm depressed, I want to die, Iwant to.
It was.
You know it's like more.
I know that it's an issue I'mdealing with, but I'm managing
it rather than just likefighting it.
You know there's a certainamount of like giving in and
realizing.
You know this has to be dealtwith.
Gabe Nathan (06:55):
Well, it's right, it's, it's living with the thing
.
I feel like a lot of peoplethink that recovery is, oh, I'm
recovered and you know, now Idon't have to deal with this
anymore.
But it really is a certainamount of acceptance of like,
okay, this thing is here, um, Iam living with this mental
(07:16):
health challenge.
It is a part of me, um, and Iknow that.
So I live with anxiety anddepression and so much of my
life has been, I feel, wasted ina way, spent fighting those two
(07:36):
issues and pushing up againstthem and railing against them
and having them control me andme resisting that.
But as I get older and havelearned, okay, this shit isn't
going away, no matter how hard Ikick and scream, right, it's
more about just accepting thatthey're here and learning to
live the best life that you canwith that.
(07:59):
I don't know if that's beensimilar for you in some way.
Jason Schruers (08:03):
Oh, exactly, I mean, that's basically what I
would have said.
You know, one of the thingsthat I really learned around
language when it comes to mentalhealth issues and I learned
this through other people that Italked to on the podcast was
that you know, like turning itaround and saying like, okay,
what am I recovering from?
Like, where am I trying to get?
Am I trying to get back to theway I was before being diagnosed
(08:23):
, because that was horrible andthat was also really scary and
awful, and, you know, am Itrying to find something new?
And so you know more of atransformation language than a
recovery language, becausereally this is the chance for
you to change and to bepotentially, well, obviously, a
different person, but kind ofpushing through instead of
pushing against it, kind ofpushing through it.
(08:46):
And I think now you know I'm atotally different person than I
was before.
I mean, I'm still me, like I'mstill got all those same, you
know, like traits and stuff, butit's way more controlled,
that's way more measured and Ithink the things that I'm doing
now make a lot more sense.
Yeah, I pulled off some likewild stuff when I was
undiagnosed, like I mean I wasdoing cool things.
But now I'm still doing coolthings, uh, but I'm doing them
(09:09):
in a way that makes a bit moresense or or is more realistic to
to my life.
Gabe Nathan (09:15):
So that's something that I want to touch on that I
think is really important totalk about.
Um, you're a very creativeperson, you know.
You're into music and writingand all these different creative
endeavors, and I think there'sthis seductive thing about
bipolar disorder with mania,where creative people are like,
(09:37):
oh wow, well, when I'm hypomanic, shit's really good and I'm
creating all the time and I'mstaying up till 3am and I'm
doing all this amazing stuff, um, and then, you know, hypomania
slides very scarily into fullblown mania.
Um, but people do talk abouthow it feels good, and
(10:01):
especially creative people haveheard this.
What is helping you?
I'm assuming you're onmedication, correct?
Jason Schruers (10:09):
Yeah.
Gabe Nathan (10:10):
Okay, so what is helping you maintain and being
able to say, yes, I did pull offsome wild stuff when I was
unmedicated and untreated, butthis is better and I'm not
tempted to play with fire.
Jason Schruers (10:27):
Really, yeah Well, I mean, that also is
something that I've thought alot about and talked to about
people in the podcast that comeon but what I've realized is
that, yes, when you'reunmedicated, undiagnosed and
don't know what's going on andyou're suffering through huge
bouts of depression, huge boutsof like mania Okay, so most
(10:48):
people with bipolar have kind ofa half and half-ish thing.
I mean, some people have, youknow, like months or even years
of depression and then maybelike a week of mania.
But a lot of the people thathave bipolar that I know and I
know for myself, we're dealingwith a kind of a half and half.
That's kind of the whole ideais, you know you're going like,
you know, depression mania, andso when you're depressed you
don't want to do anything, soyou're not creating anything.
(11:10):
When you're depressed you mightbe wallowing, you might be
writing some thoughts down, youmight be like struggling with
stuff and you know a lot of goodart comes out of struggle as
well but you're really notcreating or outputting anything.
And when you're manic, you'redoing all kinds of stuff.
You're staying up all night andyou're writing, you know, like
an album worth of songs in threehours, or whatever you're doing
.
You know you're running allover the place at parties.
(11:31):
Um, so you're, you're getting alot accomplished when you're
manic, but it may not always bestuff that you can hold on to or
use in the end.
Right, it might just be likepipe dream type stuff.
One of the things like that mademe like incoherent and
delusional, right, like a lot ofthe stuff that I was doing was
was just like blah, you know, itwas like there wasn't a lot
(11:54):
that I could hold on to in theend.
Um, and so I think the you knowthere's misconception about
okay, well, I'm going to besuper creative if I'm off my
medication.
I'm going to be super creativeand do all these things.
And you're only working on ahalf time, first of all, and the
stuff you are doing when you'remanic can be quite
unpredictable and not reallycool, but maybe way too cool,
(12:15):
you know.
So, and a lot of people that Ideal with, like I do a support
group that I facilitate forbipolar folks, and a lot of
these people talk about, yes,like I'm feeling quite flat.
You know, I may not bedepressed, I may not be manic, I
may be like what we call stable, but I'm just like flatline in
it, right.
So you know, let's try, like,let's see what I can do if I,
(12:36):
you know, maybe I'll go off mymeds because it feels so great
to be manic, or maybe I feelgood on hypomania and start to
feel kind of like really in thegroove.
Well, let's just see how far Ican go with this before before
things go sour and things do gosour for a lot of people, you
know you end up in the hospitalor sometimes worse or worse, so
yeah, so I think yeah, it's allabout.
(12:56):
I wouldn't say boring, but Iwould say like more measured.
One of the guys in my groupalways says, always says, hey, a
boring day is a great day, youknow, for a, for a person with
bipolar.
Gabe Nathan (13:07):
But yeah, no handcuffs, no restraints, no
forced medication.
Jason Schruers (13:11):
Boring give, give me boring, that's great
yeah, but boring with, let'scall it boring, I call it.
You know, stable um.
With that comes a lot of reallygreat stuff, like I'm in a band
now where I've written songsthat I never would have written
when I was.
When I was manic, I was,everything was just all about
like performance, art stuff,like smashing things and
screaming and, you know, likeimprovisational weirdness, and
(13:34):
now I write songs that I'mactually like hey, this is a
good song.
You know, it's.
It's.
It's really fun to be in wherethings feel realistic, I guess.
How did you get into music?
Oh well, when I was a kid I gotinto music through, mostly
through actually throughskateboarding.
(13:54):
You know, getting toskateboarding and really
enjoying the thrill of that andthen kind of finding music.
That was, you know, kind of inalignment with that, so a lot of
punk, rock and metal.
But I was quite young, I usedto my parents had music and, you
know, kind of in alignment withthat.
So a lot of punk, rock andmetal.
But I was quite young, I used tomy parents had music and you
know they played it around thehouse.
And then I remember I had abirthday party where I only
invited one person to thebirthday party and my rule was
(14:14):
like you have to buy me an album.
And he bought me a Tina Turneralbum and I was like super
stoked Wow, I've just alwaysloved music.
It quite quickly got into, youknow, the I've just always loved
music.
It quite quickly got into theheavy and the fast and the
screamy and that was kind ofwhat I needed.
I needed to have that outlet.
I needed to hear back what Iwas hearing in my head, which
was a lot of anguish when I wasyounger too.
(14:35):
So, yeah, this is how I foundit, and I never really looked
back.
I've been doing this musicstuff for a long long time,
decades and decades now, so it'smeant to be.
Gabe Nathan (14:46):
Yeah, and I know that they're intertwined.
Jason Schruers (14:53):
But my next question is about writing.
Yeah, yeah, same thing.
I remember when I was readingmagazines when I was a kid, I
always thought at that pointit's like I want to write about
music, I don't want to be inbands, I want to describe about
music, I don't want to be inbands.
You know, I want to, I want to,I want to describe and be
creative.
And that quickly got into, youknow, volunteering for a bunch
of magazines that were writingabout music and I just kind of
went with it.
And you know I was just doing alot of that stuff and I think,
(15:17):
you know, I always kind ofwanted to be a writer when I was
a kid.
I remember writing things forEnglish class and stuff and
thinking that's what I want todo.
But I think until I found themusic angle, it didn't really
make a lot of sense.
Like I wasn't thinking I'mgoing to write a novel when I'm
older.
I was thinking like I want towrite about stuff that I care
about.
Gabe Nathan (15:35):
And the support group that you facilitate.
I mean, I know I read in yourbio that you did that and I was
like, oh, I wonder if he's stilldoing that, because it's been,
you know, quite a while.
Yeah, um, can you talk a littlebit about how you got into that
?
Um, you know is, did you usesupport groups in your recovery
group therapy?
Um, and you know what was itlike to become a facilitator?
(15:57):
What's it been like?
Jason Schruers (15:59):
Oh, it's been amazing.
We actually just had our weeklymeeting last night.
It's just, it's so validating.
I never feel like I'm beinglike the leader of anything,
even though I call it directingtraffic, you know, like okay,
you're next, or whatever.
But I always feel on totalequal terms with these people.
Some of them I just completelyadmire for what they've done in
their journey of living withbipolar, sometimes for 30, 40
(16:20):
years, for 30, 40 years.
Other folks I'm super inspiredby because they've just been
diagnosed, even last week, andthey're right in the thick of it
, and so it's an amazingexperience.
The reason I got into it isbecause when I was coming out of
the hospital, one of the veryfirst things I did was go to a
support group at the hospitaland I walked in and thought,
okay, well, because when you getdiagnosed with something,
(16:41):
especially with me, I'd neverreally heard of bipolar before,
which is wild because I gotdiagnosed in my mid-40s.
And so to walk into a room andrealize that you know, oh, wait
a second, there's 12 people inthis room and they're all
dealing with things too.
Because, you know, I think myimage was I walk in and just be
like me and one other person andwe both just cry or something.
It wasn't like this feeling ofsupport.
(17:02):
Like this feeling of supportFrom there, I just went and got
training so I could do my owngroups, because I felt like I
kind of knew how they workedafter being at that one for a
while and I thought, hey, thisis a chance for me to volunteer.
You know, volunteering isamazing for folks that are
living with mental health issuesbecause, of course, all of a
sudden, that creates a purpose.
I have things that I can do andI can.
(17:23):
You know, I can kind of beunderstood at the same time.
Gabe Nathan (17:30):
Since you were published here.
I mean, it's been a while.
I know you have two essays onthe site, but it's been some
time.
What has changed for you?
Jason Schruers (17:42):
Well, it's interesting because I mean
looking at this article or essaythat I wrote for you.
Well, it's interesting becauseI mean looking at this, this, uh
, this article or essay that Iwrote for you guys, um, it's
hard to read it because it'slike things have changed so much
.
You know, I remember it and Iknow that it it rings true for
me in that, in that space, but,yeah, it's like, okay, was it me
that wrote that?
Like you know, yes, I know thatit was and it does.
(18:06):
It is about me and there's somestuff in it about like my life
and I know the things that I'vedone, but it's just like my, my
outlook is so different.
You know, like I don't feellike my depression's getting
nearly as bad as they used to,and so I'm trying to identify
with a person, whatever fouryears ago, whatever it was, that
was just in so much pain and somuch existential crisis, and
(18:29):
now I feel like I belong in mylife.
I know what I've, you know, Iknow what I'm doing and I know
why I'm here, and so, yeah, itwas tough to to look back on
that.
Yeah, things have changed huge.
You know.
It's to use the bipolar sort ofsignal.
It's like you know, if you gothe ups and the downs of bipolar
, it's like you know, like allof a sudden, now I'm totally,
(18:52):
I've totally completely, likeyou know, um, uh, closed that
gap that used to be there and,uh, that's been a very slow
process.
You know, I keep charts for my,for my moods, every day and if
I look at all of them over thecourse of that four years, I can
see how that slowly has comeback to the middle of stability.
And that's a very slow, longprocess, but it's really cool to
(19:16):
see it on paper.
Gabe Nathan (19:18):
So you mentioned something that I wanted to talk
about too, so we'll talk aboutit now.
You're talking about the chartsthat you keep.
Do you call them mood charts,or yeah?
Jason Schruers (19:28):
mood charts.
Gabe Nathan (19:29):
Yeah, so you know you're on medication, you're
obviously seeing somebody tomonitor medication and are you
in like talk therapy too?
Jason Schruers (19:40):
Yeah, yeah, I do somatic therapy, which, but
it's still Okay, talk about that.
Yeah, yeah, I do somatictherapy, but it's still Okay,
talk about that yeah, yeah, oh.
Somatic therapy is just likebody-based.
So you close your eyes and kindof start to feel your body and
look at places that are holdingtension and then kind of look,
except that you're not.
You're not talking as much, butof course with me I'm a talker,
(20:07):
so I go in there and I talk forthe first 25 minutes of an hour
session and then we get into it.
Gabe Nathan (20:12):
Okay, jason, close your eyes now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know if you do, but-.
Jason Schruers (20:17):
It's hard to just be present in the body and
not just be thinking the wholetime about stuff and yeah, yeah,
but it is.
I've really I thought.
I think it's been reallyvaluable.
But I think it's way more of anorganic process that a lot of
people would think.
You know, you, you don't comeout of there with like grand
revelations, but I think becauseyou're, you're in your body and
you're kind of releasingdifferent parts and different
(20:37):
things slowly over the course of, because I used to think, hey,
this isn't working, like, what abunch of like.
I come out of here and I feellike nothing happened.
But after being in it forseveral years, I can see how my
system is really settled andbipolar.
Of course, you know you got adysregulation in your system as
well.
You know things can get reallyhairy.
Gabe Nathan (20:57):
So what helped you stick with it?
Because I'm very much like this, you know, like if I think
something's bullshit or I justdecide arbitrarily something's
not working for me, I can giveup very quickly.
Jason Schruers (21:12):
So I'm curious about how you kind of comforted
that impulse in your mind tostay well, a huge thing is, and
I'm sure you know in the statesit's a huge thing.
A huge thing is and I'm sureyou know in the States it's a
huge thing, more so than inCanada, because I'm living up
here is that it was free.
So I think if I had to pay forit, I probably wouldn't have
gone back.
I would have been like you knowwhat the value isn't here.
(21:34):
I'm paying $100 a session and Ijust can't justify it because
I'm you know, I'm, I'm a lowincome, so but uh, I was given a
lot of sessions through thevictim assistance program, uh,
you know, in relation tochildhood abuse, so like I got
all these free sessions and andthen when I was done those, the
therapist was like you know what?
I'm just going to keep you on apro bono.
(21:55):
So, yeah, that was a huge thing,I think.
I think it was just like, uh,being stubborn and just thinking
you know what, like thisdoesn't feel like it's really
doing anything, but like let'sjust keep doing it and see what
happens.
And you know, I was able to getout a lot of um, you know, like
trauma stuff too, like near thebeginning, and that was like,
okay, you know this is, thiscan't be bad.
Um, what ended up happening isit really went into more, like I
(22:18):
said, the system-based bodystuff, and I don't want to go
half the time.
I'm like this is whatever, butwhenever I go, I feel like I did
something for myself.
You know, you come out oftherapy I do with like a big
headache and you're like well,why?
Gabe Nathan (22:33):
did.
I do that Sometimes yeah.
Jason Schruers (22:35):
But I can see how it's beneficial and even if
it's just talk therapy for anhour, I'm still getting placed
to vent, even if it's just talktherapy for an hour, I'm still
getting placed to vent.
Gabe Nathan (22:44):
When you were first diagnosed with bipolar, do you
remember resisting it, resistingthe diagnosis, or did
everything kind of click, or wasit something else for you?
Jason Schruers (23:03):
It was like no resistance at all.
A lot of people deal with that,you know.
A lot of people deal with like,hey, this isn't, this isn't a
thing.
Or for me it was just like oh,this is like, this is what it is
, this is what's been going on,cause I always felt like I was
super weird.
I was doing a lot of thingsthat were kind of against my you
know my morals and ethics too.
Like I was like this isn't me.
Like you know, I'm a goodperson.
Why am I doing this thing?
And it was a total explanationfor what was going on, because I
(23:25):
was really obviously reallyscared, like I didn't know why I
was having all these delusionsand then was in a psychotic
episode.
I didn't know why I was.
You know, before that I wasdepressed, sometimes for four
months.
You know, I didn't know,understand what was going on.
Gabe Nathan (24:03):
No-transcript that it clicked um and that you got
what you needed.
A little late in life maybe,but sometimes things happen when
they need to.
Um, yeah, and since we'retalking about that diagnosis,
(24:24):
what a nice way to segue intoyour essay, which I'm very
excited to have you read.
It is called A FracturedJourney Feeling the Throes of
Bipolar Disorder.
Before Diagnosis and wheneveryou're ready, I'll just have you
take it away.
Jason Schruers (24:41):
Processing 1.
Once upon a time there was aman who felt like he didn't
deserve happiness, so hesabotaged everything and lived
in misery until he died.
Wonderful things happened tohim.
Wonderful people came into hislife.
He turned that wonder intomisery and ended up alone and
afraid.
The happy ending does not exist.
(25:03):
Processing 2.
Once upon a time there was aman who lived a happy life,
loved by many.
This man was able to find peacein his life.
He didn't ruminate on hisdecisions and instinctively knew
what to say and do to findhappiness.
He was a born leader who wasable to inspire people and
(25:24):
himself.
Everything he set out to do inhis life he did with hard work
and passion.
The happy ending does exist.
Depression 1.
I'm wallowing in the misery ofbeing alive, a selfish idiot who
only cares about himself andisn't able to make even the
simplest choices in order tofeel better.
I should be able to allow thosearound me to feel my positive
(25:47):
energy instead of this sick,miserable, wallowing negativity.
Why can't I just be happy?
Depression 2.
How many times can I fuck upbefore I give up?
I want to crawl in a hole anddie.
I feel like the world's biggestfailure and have no purpose on
this earth other than to screwthings up and make things worse.
(26:08):
The only thing keeping me hereis my family and friends, and
I'm not even sure they miss me.
At this point I am such a wasteof space and I want to die.
I feel like I'm craftingsomething dramatic here so
someone else can read this andhelp me.
I am fucked and I don't knowhow to fix myself.
I can feel the weight ofdepression pinning me down and
(26:30):
rubbing my face in the dirt.
I don't know what to do.
Existentialism I'm feeling a bitbetter.
The medication dulls myemotions and I don't have the
same urges to disappear.
My head constantly aches fromthe stress, but feelings of
worthlessness fade through theday.
It's always the hardest when Ifirst wake up.
(26:53):
The morning walk helps todistract me, but when I come
home it hits me hard.
What am I doing with my life?
Where am I going?
What was I put here to do?
What is my purpose?
I can't do the simplest ofthings to keep myself occupied.
Looking at job postings istorture, because I know I can't
bring myself to do anything.
It feels like I'm on a planetfull of people who all have jobs
(27:16):
and purposes, while I wanderaround with no reason for being
here.
Regular life distracts me, butI sit here aimless while
everyone else is working.
The answers aren't gettingclearer.
I'm not looking for them.
Hope I know the answers, butI'm still not coming any closer
to finding them.
I have a bunch of options, butall of them involve doing
(27:39):
something.
I have had a problem withrumination for as long as I can
remember.
When I try to make a decision,I freeze.
It could be whether to start anew career or what to make for
dinner.
Either way, I freeze in mytracks.
That's a constant in my life.
I'm acutely familiar with theconcept of fly traps, but if a
friend reaches out to me to gofor a walk, I spring into action
(28:01):
.
I don't have to think about it,I just do it.
I can often use a serious jolt.
I've read aboutelectroconvulsive therapy to
reboot the brain, but isn't thata little bit extreme?
My counselor says I havesituational depression.
Electricity coursing through mybody doesn't sound like the
proper treatment, but still ashock could shake me loose.
(28:26):
Maybe I'm shutting down afterso many years of moving so fast.
I've been going hard since I was14, and spent years writing and
editing for music magazines,more than I can recall right now
.
I held down full-time jobs atnewspapers that stretched way
into overtime, helped raise fourkids, booked punk shows and ran
a punk rock mail order allhappening at the same time.
(28:46):
The amount of work I used to doon a daily basis amazes me now.
How did I get it all done?
So many projects, so many ideas, busy work, typing, data entry,
writing and editing for 12hours a day, packaging up all
those music mail orders all ofit every single day, morning to
evening, then again at night.
No peace of mind never for longat least.
(29:07):
Now I'm here and it's just memyself and I sitting at a
keyboard and failing to ridmyself of this infection.
This busy life that stuck withme for decades and feels
impossible to shake Did yearsand years of overworking myself
and letting stress consume meput me deep into this hole.
If I slow down too much, will Ibe eaten alive or survive the
(29:29):
mauling, questioning, trying toclear my mind?
Most thoughts are past orfuture, where I trap myself.
Either I regret the past orworry about the future.
Present is real life.
Things are happening right nowthat deserve my attention.
Things will make me happy again, but I'm too blind to see them.
(29:49):
Smiles feel nice, this isproven.
Worry doesn't feel good, thisis proven.
How do I calibrate myself tomaximum enjoyment?
Running away on fancy vacations, following punk bands around on
tour, burying myself in anotherjob so I can justify doing
these things on my vacations?
Maybe I need to figure out thathappiness bit first.
(30:14):
Desperation Maybe I'm gettingbetter.
It feels like I could be, buthonestly I have no idea at this
point.
I am completely exhausted frommonths of worry and stress.
I wake up every day hit withoverwhelming anxiety and
depression.
My first thoughts are usuallyabout the dread of another day
or how soon I can go back to bed.
The anxiety makes my heart jumpat everyday sounds and
(30:36):
movements.
The depression feels like apile of chain mail thrown over
me.
I'm stumbling through a fog ofemotional pain Loneliness,
vulnerability, guilt, shame,remorse, sadness, boredom, a
general sense of negativity, theforced smile on my face crushed
by a blood-curdling scream ofwhy won't anyone fucking help me
(30:57):
?
When you see me laugh, pleasecherish it, because I can't.
Realization Maybe I'm meant tobe a nobody, an unspoken hero.
Even Someone who goes to work,doesn't stress, then goes home
and lives a peaceful life.
People remember the person, notthe things they do.
(31:18):
Is that true?
If I can be who I've alwayswanted to be a stable husband,
father, brother, son, friendmaybe what I do isn't as
important as the person I am.
Maybe the things I do are justa bonus.
Maybe anything extra is justthe icing, and maybe that icing
doesn't have to be sickly sweet.
Maybe I'm meant to help peopleout when they need it, stick up
(31:40):
for what is right and spend timewith and put effort into people
that deserve it.
Maybe being a nobody is thegoal.
For so many years I've put valueon what people think of me,
what my status means to thosearound me.
I've had a fear of abandonmentand being harmed since childhood
, sexual abuse, and I've spentmy life trying to please others
instead of taking care of myself.
I'm finally ready to be thatnobody who only wants to be
(32:11):
known as a somebody to the onesI love.
That starts with myselfDiagnosis.
Yesterday I found out that Ihave bipolar, formerly known as
manic depression.
Thinking back, this explains alot.
Reading back on my writing, itbecomes clear A lot of what I
wrote had depression and maniapeeking through cries from help
from between the lines.
When I was depressed, mywriting was dark, seen through a
(32:34):
lens of despair.
When I was manic, Iecstatically pounded on my
keyboard.
Everything was awesome.
Knowing what I've been livingwith for all these years
explains a lot of my struggles,but that comes with mixed
feelings and uncertainty.
With for all these yearsexplains a lot of my struggles,
but that comes with mixedfeelings and uncertainty.
But I'm used to that.
I think back on my life andcan't rub away all my bad
decisions or shameful behavior,but I can find ways to explain
them.
Now my diagnosis has openedpathways in my brain.
(32:56):
Clarity may just be what mydecades of confusion need.
I feel like writing somethinglike wish me luck on this
incredible journey, but thatfeels way too optimistic and
super cheesy.
Once upon a time there was aman who lived with bipolar.
He'll be happy to take anending with mixed results.
Gabe Nathan (33:18):
Jason, thank you so much for reading that and for
writing that.
No problem, jason, thank you somuch for reading that and for
writing that.
No problem.
My favorite line is when yousee me laugh, please cherish it,
because I can't.
It's a real a minute to collectmyself after hearing that piece
(33:56):
, which I think is a good thing,which I think is a good thing.
The way the essay feels to meis it feels like a lifetime.
You know the essay.
It's a smallish snapshot oftime, but it feels like you're
(34:19):
writing your entire lifetime.
Up until yesterday, I wasdiagnosed with bipolar disorder.
Is that how it?
Jason Schruers (34:28):
feels to you.
Hmm, I hadn't really thoughtabout it like that.
No, I don't think so.
I'm glad that you know a personthat hears it or reads it is
thinking that because it makes alot of sense.
I think a lot of people'sjourneys is like there's so much
before a diagnosis, that is iskind of almost uh, uh, it feels
like it's everlasting, like it'sgoing to be that way forever,
(34:50):
and then, you know, thediagnosis is kind of that
realization moment.
Um, I think for me it wasreally like what's going to come
out here, like what?
What am I struggling with, youknow?
And I think one of the themesthat comes up in the essay is
like what is my purpose?
What am I supposed to be doingright now?
I know it's not laying on thecouch with a brutal headache and
feeling like I want to die.
(35:11):
I know it's not like being on awalk and dragging myself around
and thinking I want to run intothe forest and never come back.
That's not why I'm here.
That's my mental health issuestalking Right.
So I think it was more about,you know, just kind of trying to
find sense in what had happenedbefore, but more in a way of
(35:33):
like a lot of things came upwhen I was first diagnosed
around.
You know, like one of the bigthings is when I was working a
really stressful job and lotsand lots of hours and there's
all these other things going on.
So I was trying to sort of geta snapshot of what was it, what
it was like in that part of mylife.
But I think by doing that it'snatural to go back and sort of
(35:55):
recapture what had happenedbefore that.
So I think it was like almostat the same time it was like one
like snapshot, but also thatbroadened out to other things
and I think I think a readerwould be more inclined to see
that than me, because I was justlike, I was trying to be in the
moment.
I was in the moment andwhatever comes out comes out.
Gabe Nathan (36:15):
Yeah, and I'm very grateful for what did come out.
I'm very grateful for what didcome out because I think it's
such a beautiful piece and Ithink especially your
descriptions of what thosedepressive pockets feel like.
I'm reading a mental healthessay, but the first draft at
(36:44):
least.
A lot of people are writingthings like you know the dark
cloud of depression, or you know, battling my demon in the dark,
and you, just you have such afresh and very earnest and very
un-cliched way of bringingpeople to understand what that
feels like, with a lot of artand a lot of heart also.
(37:06):
So I just wanted to recognizethat I think, I don't know, we
asked people to write theseessays, and just because you
live with a mental healthchallenge doesn't necessarily
mean that you're a greatstoryteller, um, but you have
such a facility with words, um,so I just wanted to tip my hat
(37:28):
to you.
Um, there, it's just such abeautiful essay to listen to.
Jason Schruers (37:32):
Thanks, yeah, I think it.
If you're a writer and you andyou're artistic and you you
write, as your writing is verycreative and you're not falling
into some of the same cliches no, everybody has cliches in their
writing I'm just as guilty.
But I think if and I think whatI was thinking, as you're
saying that is like I'm a punkrocker, right, like punks do
(37:53):
things the way they want to dothem and screw it all if you
don't like it, and I think thatreally inspired my writing.
And I wrote a book about punkrock and mental health as well,
called Scream Therapy, and thewhole thing is in that style.
You know it's, it's very muchlike in your face and people
read it and like whoa, um, but Ican't do it any other way, and
(38:13):
so, um, unconventional would bethe word.
You know, like, like my writingis is unconventional, and
that's what.
That's what draws a lot ofpeople to it.
It's like it's not the same,it's, it's just like it's, it's
almost a, it's a challenge, Iguess, to to.
I don't know, I feel like I'mblowing my own horn now, but
(38:34):
it's, it's a challenge toconventional, conventional
writing in some ways.
Gabe Nathan (38:38):
I mean it's what drew me.
I know we're all in thesparrows, but I feel like I have
some.
Jason Schruers (38:42):
I've got some sort of spark.
Gabe Nathan (38:44):
Yeah, and it's what drew me to you.
When I got your firstsubmission, and you know, I knew
there was something unique andexciting here.
So I don't think it's tootin'your own head, and if it is
tootin' your own fucking horn,who cares?
That's okay.
Nothing wrong with that Havingwrong with that.
Jason Schruers (38:58):
Um, having said that, I really don't, having
said that I really don't likethe piece anymore, like I'm glad
people like it, and I thinkit's natural for a writer not to
look back on a something theywrote it four or five years ago
and be like, oh, I hateeverything I've ever written
except the very last piece.
Gabe Nathan (39:14):
I've written whatever's newest I like and
then in a couple weeks I won'tlike that anymore either.
So I understand, yeah, um, my,I have two, two questions before
we go.
You know you were talking about, you know, being a punk
musician and you know it's it'smy way, or the highway.
How did you parse that withworking with an editor?
(39:39):
Cause you worked with Evan forboth of your essays.
So in the one sense, it's likeI want to be unconstrained and I
want to say everything my way,but you're also working with an
editor.
Um, so what was that like foryou, if you remember?
Jason Schruers (39:50):
I think I've always been pretty good with
that.
Um, I've had some, some badeditors over the years and I
went to butt heads with them.
But I think it for me it's moreabout like, I'm putting it out
there and now it's not reallymine anymore, right, like I've
written it, it was mine, it was,and then now it's out, and so
(40:10):
if an editor wants to work withthat and find the strengths and
the weaknesses and beconstructive with their
criticism and be really coolwith their, you know, whatever
changes they want me to make,then I feel like, okay, well,
that's, it's great to havesomeone else's opinion on it.
You know, um, when I was manic,everything I wrote was the best
Genius.
Of course, when I was depressed, the stuff I had to struggle to
(40:31):
get out was awful.
So to have a, to have anobjective opinion, um, you know
it's, it's great.
So to me that was an opportunityand luckily I always worked
with, you know, like more like,um, alternative publications and
stuff too.
It wasn't, you know, it wasn'twriting for the New York times
or something, and so that was.
That was a blessing as well.
(40:56):
Um, but ultimately it was itwas more about okay, it's out in
the world.
It's not really mine anymore.
You know I wrote it, but it'snot my property In a sense of
like intellectual or likeemotional property.
Gabe Nathan (41:05):
Yeah, Last question what are you excited about,
what are you looking forward toin your life In the short term,
in the long term?
Just in general.
Jason Schruers (41:18):
Just living it really.
I mean, I've got projects thatI'm working on that I'm excited
about, but I'm excited aboutbeing stable and actually one of
the most glorious things thatI'm excited about is that
sometimes I don't think aboutbipolar.
I don't think that I'm livingwith it, I don't think this is a
bipolar symptom, I don't think,and that was just such a
(41:38):
consuming like that's all Ithought about every single day,
every single minute, and it waslike trying to figure out ways
to deal with it.
You know, like, oh, I'm feelinga little bit excited.
I'm like, oh, is this mania?
Like questioning myself, notaccepting it, like not accepting
that, the fact that I'm notaccepting not that I wasn't
accepting the diagnosis more,like you know, I can't accept
(42:00):
that this is happening to mylife right now.
Like you know, it's like reallya lot of like just stuff that
interfere with my day to day.
So I'm really excited aboutjust being stable, managing the
diagnosis, knowing that if Ihave some symptoms that I can I
know what they are now and I canI can work with them.
(42:21):
And you know, it's really coolto be like feeling quite low and
like, and then kind of justbeing able to pull out of that
without really knowing it,whereas before it was like I'm
feeling low.
I'm feeling low, I'm feelingthe worst, I'm feeling awful, I
want to die like it was just thespiral.
Um, so, yeah, I'm excited aboutliving and I'm excited about,
you know, the the projects I'mhere and there.
I've got a music festivalcoming up in August in town here
(42:43):
that I'm putting on.
I'm excited about being in theband we're jamming later today
in the old jam space behind mehere, you know, excited about my
partner and our relationship.
Excited about, yeah, everythingthat wasn't everything.
That's real.
You know, when you're manic,you draw up all kinds of plans.
(43:04):
They don't make any senseusually, and so those were
things that I was excited about.
But then now I realize, hey,wait a second.
Like, yeah, I'm excited, butI'm also doing it, like I'm also
doing the work and I'm I'mbeing, I'm being, uh, realistic
about things.
So, yeah, it's more of anoverall outlook that I'm excited
about than specific things.
Gabe Nathan (43:26):
That's wonderful.
I'm excited for you.
I'm excited for everythingthat's real for you.
Take us home by lettingeveryone know where they can
find you, where can they findyour music, where can they find
your podcast, your book.
Jason Schruers (43:43):
I've got everything at screamtherapyHQcom
.
So ScreamTherapyHQ as inheadquarters, dot com, the book
is, you know, petering down withsales.
But you know, I just got areview yesterday from someone
over in UK and they were superstoked on it.
So if people get it it's stillthere for them, kind of like
with the essay.
You know, like, yeah, it feelsold to me but new to other
(44:06):
people.
And then the podcast is thereas well.
You know podcasts, you can findit in all the different
platforms.
But if you want to go to theactual, website.
It's screamtherapyhq.
com
Gabe Nathan (44:23):
Awesome, Thank you so so much for joining us us
today.
It was so wonderful to spendsome time with you.
Jason Schruers (44:25):
You're most welcome.
It was good to to talk to youagain and I really enjoy working
with you.
Uh, for the two essays that Iwrote
Gabe Nathan (44:32):
Maybe there's a third in the can somewhere down
the line.
We'll see.
Thank you, Jason.
Thank you again for joining usin conversation today.
It's beautiful to see theprogression of our contributors,
and that was Jason Schreurs.
Musician, health journalist,creative writer and
(44:53):
self-proclaimed punk weirdo.
He also lives with bipolardisorder and he hosts and
produces the internationallyrenowned podcast Scream Therapy,
which you can find anywhere youget podcasts and on
ScreamTherapyHQ.
com.
Before we leave you, we want toremind you to check out our
website, recoverydiaries.
(45:13):
org.
There, like this podcast,you'll find additional stories,
videos and content about mentalhealth, empowerment and change.
We look forward to continuingto grow our community.
Thank you so much for being apart of it.
We wouldn't be here without you.
Be sure to join our mailinglist so you never miss a podcast
(45:35):
episode, essay or film.
I'm Gabe Nathan.
Until next time, take good care.
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