June 9, 2025 • 47 mins
What happens when your own mind becomes your greatest fear? When intrusive thoughts flood in that feel completely alien to who you really are? In this intimate conversation, writer Pinar Tarhan takes us deep into her experience with Pure Harm OCD – a misunderstood subtype of obsessive-compulsive disorder characterized not by handwashing or organization, but by terrifying unwanted thoughts.
Pinar describes the journey from her initial diagnosis at age 19, when disturbing thoughts about harming herself and others left her convinced she was "going mad." She walks us through the frightening early days when she worried she might be "the worst scum humanity had ever seen" simply because of the thoughts in her head. What makes her story particularly compelling is how it challenges popular misconceptions about OCD and mental illness broadly – including the harmful belief that you need severe trauma to legitimately suffer from mental health issues.
Through persistence and several false starts, Pinar eventually found the right psychiatrist who recognized her condition and provided effective treatment. Her recovery path combined medication, therapy, and developing strong personal boundaries. She also speaks candidly about navigating mental health challenges within Turkish culture, which she describes as "a weird melting pot" where finding people who share her individualistic values proved difficult but essential.
Most powerfully, Pinar reveals her transformation from someone terrified of her own mind to someone who now manages her symptoms so effectively that friends joke about whether she even has OCD anymore. While acknowledging that recovery isn't linear and that certain triggers can still cause temporary setbacks, she demonstrates that living well with mental illness is absolutely possible.
Listen to discover how Pinar turned her painful experience into purpose by sharing her story, potentially helping countless others who might recognize themselves in her words. Her journey reminds us that healing comes in many forms – sometimes through medication, sometimes through connection, and sometimes through the simple power of knowing you aren't alone.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, this is Recovery Diaries In-Depth.
I'm your host, gabe Nathan.
Thanks so much for joining us.
We're very happy to have youhere.
We are so excited and happy tobe welcoming to the show Pinar
Tarhan.
She's a writer from Istanbul,turkey.
Her essay, the Trauma of Notbeing Traumatized Enough my Life
with Pure OCD, can be found onour website, as can a short film
(00:25):
we made about Pinar when shewas visiting the United States
in 2019 for a women's writersretreat we held in Cape May, new
Jersey.
Each week, we'll bring you aRecovery Diaries contributor
folks who have shared theirmental health journey with us
through essay or video format.
We want to see where they areon their mental health journey
since initially being publishedon our website.
(00:45):
Our goal is to continuesupporting our diverse community
by having conversations here onour podcast to follow up and
see what has shifted, what haschanged and what new things have
emerged.
We're so happy to have youalong for this journey.
We want to remind you to followour show for new and back
episodes at recoverydiariesorg.
(01:06):
There, like the podcast, you'llfind stories of mental health,
empowerment and change.
You can also sign up for ourmailing list there so you never
miss a new podcast episode,essay or film, and you can find
this podcast pretty muchanywhere.
You get your podcasts.
We appreciate your comments andfeedback about our show.
It helps us improve, makechanges and grow.
(01:27):
And, of course, make sure tolike, share and subscribe.
Pinar Tarhan, welcome toRecovery Diaries In-Depth.
It is an absolute joy to seeyou.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Hi, I'm so glad to see you again.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I can't believe it, and so see you again.
Please talk about when we lastsaw each other.
What was that all about?
What was happening?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I think it was like 2019, right, we were on a
writing retreat together becauseyou invited us and it was such
a great time and I got to meetso many lovely writers.
We are still kind of in touch.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
And you came all the way from your home in Istanbul.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah, it was, you know, and I was talking to Flo
about this.
We were talking to her our ourprevious episode and Flo said
you know, it was really like adream, um and Flo came from
Rwanda, and we had Claire fromthe UK, um Sanyukta from India,
um Liza from Australia, uh, andyou, and I think that's everyone
(02:46):
Um the international, the groupand you know, coming here,
landing here, spending threedays in Cape May at the beach,
um writing and listening andlearning and laughing and
experiencing the kind of thefull depth and breadth of of not
just like mental healthstorytelling but connection, and
(03:09):
thinking about it now,especially because COVID came
right on its heels, it reallydoes feel like a dream, though.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, definitely.
It's a crazy town and it was myfirst writing retreat, so
incredible memories there, wow.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And that's quite a first.
So you came to us a coupleyears before that with your
essay.
And how did you find us, do youremember?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Probably I saw a pitch call, because I frequently
subscribe to email lists fromeditors or other writers sharing
pitch calls from editors.
Or maybe I found an essay Idon't quite remember.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
It's been a hot minute, so, yeah, it's hard to
remember that far back I wouldsay your essay was probably like
2017, maybe.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Okay.
So if you can think back tothat essay and you're going to
be reading it on the show andI'm very excited to hear it in
your voice Can you think back towhen you were writing that
piece and kind of who you wereback then as a human being, but
also as someone living withmental health challenges and
(04:32):
making a decision to writepublicly about them?
And if you can also talk about,was this your first time doing
that in this essay, or had youwritten publicly about your
mental health before?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
time doing that in this essay, or had you written
publicly about your mentalhealth before?
I think I mentioned it here andthere.
I have a newsletter, I have awriter's website and I often
talk about health issues, sothat includes mental challenges
as well.
But it was my first really open, really honest essay with all
the backstory, with all thediagnoses and the adventures
(05:06):
that led to that diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So yeah, and what was that like for you?
Did you have a little anxietyor trepidation about?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
being so public.
A little I did, but I was alsoexcited because I really wanted
this essay out there in theworld, because a lot of people
don't write about this kind ofOCD, the kind that I have.
And whenever I find somethinglike this it's like a diamond,
you know, in the wild, like it'sin the rough, and I thought,
(05:37):
okay, people really could usehelp, because if I had known
about this before, it would havebeen so much easier for me.
So I thought maybe it can helpothers going forward.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And I know that it has, and I want you to know and
understand that now, since then,since writing and publishing
this essay, you're one of thosediamonds that other people out
there are finding kind ofshimmering in the dark.
They're looking for help,they're looking for answers,
they're looking for answers,they're looking for resources,
(06:11):
and you can find all of thatkind of stuff on health websites
or mental health websites andscholarly articles or things
written by practitioners, butwhat's just as important, if not
more important, is a humanstory, exactly, and I'm just so
grateful to you for steppingforward and saying I may be
nervous and anxious about this,but it's worth it for other
people to be able to find this.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Exactly yes, and I'm so grateful to you because you
liked it and you saw the storyhere, so thank you.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Absolutely.
It was the absolute first essayabout Puro and Harmo's CD and
we're going to talk about all ofthat that I had ever received,
and you're such a good writer,you're such a strong writer and
you know this isn't just aone-off, this is your career, so
it's very clear to me that thisis something that I felt very
(07:02):
strongly about wanting topresent to our community and to
anyone who just stumbles acrossus online.
So, thank you.
Have you heard from folks whoread the essay?
Do people reach out to you?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I have Sometimes people reach out to me on
Instagram and they say, okay, soI have this, and thank you, or
how did you find your doctor?
Or how did you you doctor, orhow did you, you know, how did
this happen?
And yeah, not as many as you, Isuppose, but I have some people
who reach out and it's alwaysgreat to know that I could have
(07:37):
helped.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
So can you talk a little bit about your diagnoses
and you know, just for peoplewho don't know, and obviously
we're going to get into it inyour essay.
But if you can just talk alittle bit about your diagnoses
and just for people who don'tknow, and obviously we're going
to get into it in your essay butif you can just talk a little
bit about what you live with,what you've been diagnosed with,
I think that would be helpfulfor folks to know.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Right.
So I've been diagnosed with OCD, but it's like a subset.
It's called harm OCD or puroand it's mostly about obsessive
thoughts and not necessarilycompulsive acts.
I have very few compulsions andmostly it's just intrusive,
disturbing thoughts.
So it's never about doingsomething for a specific amount
(08:18):
of time in a specific amount ofway.
It's not about being overlyclean or overly organized.
In fact, I'm super messy.
I've always been messy and itcontinues.
Ocd hasn't changed that.
So it took a while for me tounderstand that this is the type
of OCD that existed.
So I'm really grateful to thedoctors who diagnosed this.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Can you talk a little bit about the thoughts, because
some of these thoughts arefrightening and being in the
mental health space.
You see a lot of stuff onsocial media that is, I think,
directed at people who havemental health challenges, like
(09:05):
anxiety, for instance, which Ilive with anxiety, and I
understand the goal behind memesor messages that are like hey
girl, your thoughts are justthoughts, don't believe
everything.
You think stuff like that.
Okay, and I think that's finefor people who live in the land
(09:29):
of what if, which is whatanxiety really is.
What if I'm late for thisappointment?
What if I don't turn thisreport in on time?
What if my boss gets angry atme?
What if I get fired?
What if I did it?
And that's you know, that'swhere my brain lives all the
time.
Yeah, your thoughts are alittle different, the words that
are related to pure O, so canyou talk a little bit about that
(09:51):
and what you do to helpyourself cope with those?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Right.
So actually I have anxiety aswell, which often comes as a
side dish to OCD.
It's either depression oranxiety or both.
But the toast that I had and Isay I had because I have gotten
a lot better since the, becauseI was better when I wrote the
(10:16):
essay, but I have also sincecontinued to get better and
mostly the compulsions haveremained the stuff that I do,
you know, checking the oven,checking if the water is off,
checking if the door is locked,and a lot of these actually even
make sense where I live,because you know the building
has had a lot of break-ins andwe live on earthquake zone and
(10:40):
you know it's really good if theheat is off.
You know what I mean.
But thoughts-wise I've beenreally well.
So you want me to go back towhat they were.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, I mean that's first of all.
That's wonderful.
I'm delighted, and part of thereason why we are doing this
podcast I'd say most of thereason we're doing this podcast
is because the essays peoplewrite and also the films when
you made a film when you werehere in Cape May, they're a
snapshot in time.
Yeah exactly, and you're kind offrozen in there for people who
(11:16):
either read the essay or watchthe film.
This podcast, once this is outthere in the world, is going to
be the same thing.
This will be a snapshot in 2025.
This is out there in the worldis going to be the same thing.
This will be a snapshot in, youknow, 2025.
But we wanted to bring peopleback because we're all curious,
like, okay, you wrote this essay, but in 2017, well, now what?
You said this and this and thisand this film, but now what?
(11:38):
Um, we want to continue gettingto know Pinar and we don't just
want to be like presenting thenarrative that, okay, this is
the essay and then this personlived happily ever after yeah,
right.
I don't want that, and we don'tknow what that we don't know
that.
That's the truth, or so we just.
(11:59):
That's part of the motivationbehind doing this.
So, yeah, talk to us a littlebit about the thoughts that you
did have in the past.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
A big majority of it was, I think it's called a call
of the void.
It's a real term people face,like if you are standing on the
edge of a cliff, you will havethis urge to jump, even if you
are not remotely suicidal.
Or if you see someone, you willhave the urge to push them,
even if you don't actually wantto push these people.
(12:28):
So a lot of the thoughts werealong those lines what if I jump
from here?
What if I push someone here?
What if I do this?
What if I do that?
And the results were dangerous,let's say, or it results in
death.
And of course it freaked me outbecause I write romantic
comedies.
I'm pretty bubbly, you knowthat, and it's not something
(12:50):
that I put on to mask the OCD,it's just who I have always been
right.
So when the thoughts came I waslike what the hell you know?
Like?
So I might be killing flieslike Al Capone, but that's it.
That's the you know gist of theviolence that I have caused in
my life.
So that was a really big shock.
(13:10):
Like what's happening to me?
Did I suddenly turn into apsychopath overnight?
What happened?
So that was the panic.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
And so right.
So then, what did you do withthat panic?
I mean, because that's aterrifying thing, a to have
those thoughts and B, to kind ofhave them come out of the blue.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
And the problem is the logic goes away completely.
No matter how educated you are,how smart you are, once they
come, logic goes away.
I was sure that if my parentsfound out they would disown me
or like they would be terrifiedof me.
Me or like they would beterrified of me.
But they understood before Ihad to openly go and, you know,
(13:50):
talk about what I was going to.
They, okay, you are not fine,something is going on, what's
what's wrong?
And I told them and they werereally understanding.
You know they didn't disown me,they just, you know, took me to
doctors and it took a while tofind the right doctor because,
you know, finding the righttherapist and psychiatrist is
like dating there has to bemutual understanding, there has
to be a matching of values,styles, personalities have to
(14:13):
match.
So it took a while but I foundthe right psychiatrist and back
then I wasn't doing talk therapybecause a lot of the therapists
that I found did not vibe,let's say.
But then I found the therapistbecause I was also having lots
of physical health issues thatactually preceded the mental
(14:34):
health diagnosis, right.
So this doctor was really intoand he's a psychologist who went
to med school, who decided togo into psychology later, so
he's really into functionalmedicine, so he looks at the
whole of the body and the mindand it really helped with my
stomach issues, with my immunesystem issues and when they got
better, ocd also got better.
(14:56):
I'm still on meds like I'm notletting those meds go.
The meds are great, but the youknow, eating the right stuff
and doing the right stuff, likemeditation, talking with a
person who is a doctor, slashlife coach, slash therapist
really helped as well.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
It's wonderful and that's something that's
important too to talk about.
And I actually just did anInstagram live where I was
promoting the essay for the weekand I was talking about how,
not only is recovery not linear,like I think we have a lot of
bullshit ideas about whatrecovery is, but I think some
(15:35):
people think that it's up, up,up, up, up, up up, and then it's
kind of just this plateau whenwe really know it's all like
this right plateau when wereally know it's all like this
right.
So not only is it not linear,but there's not a single path to
recovery.
There's not like, oh, it's justtherapy, or it's just therapy
(15:55):
and meds, or it's justmeditation, or it's just this.
There are so many differentthings that can work for so many
different people, and it'sreally nice for you to remind us
that sometimes it's amulti-pronged approach and
sometimes it's that kind ofholistic approach which I think
we probably need more of,because the physical side
(16:18):
neglects the mental side and themental side neglects the
physical, and it isinterconnected.
Um, so that's really.
It's an important reminder too.
Can you talk a little bit about, I guess talk a little bit
about the mismatch between youand the values of of your
country and also views aboutmental health that are prevalent
(16:42):
in Turkey?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I think the good thing is, turkey has become very
I don't know what's the rightword, but I want to say good
about mental health, becausewhen you go to your therapist's
office or when you go to apsychiatrist's office, you see
people from all walks of life,so it's not a class thing, it's.
(17:05):
I mean, whether it's affordableor whether enough is being done
is another story, but peopleknow that mental health is an
issue and people accept this asan actual illness.
So there isn't that much of astigma from what I have seen.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Do you feel like go ahead?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
When you go to a friend's meeting and if you are
close, if you have known eachother for a couple of years,
usually stories come upEverybody has been to therapy,
everybody has been diagnosedwith anxiety and another
disorder on the side, or anxietyand panic attacks and
depression.
Similar generations, similareducational system.
(17:44):
So it's not a stigma.
That's something I I like aboutthe country and we have some
really good doctors.
But go ahead the country is amelting pot and it's not like
the United States where a lot ofpeople also tend to look
(18:06):
different.
So people expect a clash ofvalues in a sense, but here
everybody kind of looks likeeach other but the values are
extremely different.
It's the history thing,geography thing, class thing,
economy thing.
It's all over the place right.
So you don't know is going tobe a person with european values
(18:28):
, is something going to be moremediterranean, which is also
very similar to balkans incertain ways.
A turkish person can relate to ameme from pretty much any part
of the world, including themiddle east, and that makes it
harder to find your own people.
Because I am more intoindividualism, like I love my
(18:48):
friends, I love my family, Ilike people in general and I'm
extroverted, but I like doingthings for me and not this whole
what would society think, whatwould parents think, what would
my friends think, sort of thing.
So that did lead to someloneliness while I was growing
up before I found my tribe.
That was hard as a teenager.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And finding your tribe.
It's so, so important for yourmental health Because, like you
said, when you're gettingtogether with people who you've
known, there's that connectionand there's that bond and
there's that feeling of safety.
Like that we can talk aboutlike the real, the real shit and
really get into it with eachother.
But if you're just starting outwith someone and, like you said
(19:33):
, if you're not sure wherepeople are, that can be really
tricky.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
How did that impact your mental health growing up?
Do you think?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
I think you know I titled my essay like the trauma
of not being traumatized enough.
It was just little traumas hereand there.
I have been bullied, I havebeen teased and to this day I
still don't understand thepurpose.
Right, and peer pressure neverreally worked on me, because why
are you smoking, like what'sthe point?
(20:03):
But that doesn't alwaystranslate well within teens,
that you don't really care aboutpeer pressure or that what you
think is cool is somethingcompletely different than what
they think is cool.
So I'm.
That did kind of lead to uh,it's not fun when you're
excluded and it takes so long tofind your people.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Okay, it builds your character but I think it might
also build anxiety.
Well sure, because it's like amI ever going to find people
with whom I connect?
Am I ever going to not feellike shit?
Am I ever going to feel likeI'm not a target for being
bullied?
And I mean, I speak from a lotof experience with that too.
(20:49):
It's really, really harmful andit really does tell you you
really do start to believe whatyour bullies tell you that it's
like well, this is the rightstory, this is who I am.
I am weak or I'm stupid or I'mwhatever it is that they're
throwing at you.
You really do start tointernalize that and tell
(21:11):
yourself this is they're right.
They're right about me.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Or at least you believe that.
Okay, you are strange, you aredifferent, you're abnormal.
Okay then, where are my peopleat?
Do they exist?
Will I ever be able to findthem like?
Even if the stories in yourhead aren't inherently that
negative, it can still be alittle hopeless.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
And so can you just talk about the work that you had
to do to push back against thatnarrative.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I wrote, I watched movies and I read a lot and I
became obsessed.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Same same same.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
And then I turned it into a career.
But funny thing is the thingsthat people thought made you
weird later becomes things thatpeople admire you for.
It might even be the samepeople ironically Like.
It turned into an obsessionwith another language.
It turned into writing andreading and watching movies and
(22:10):
watching series, and I stilllove those things.
So I guess there was a benefitto it, like not being made not
to care about society.
So the benefit is when you havegrown up you couldn't care less
if people think you should bemarried with five kids or drive
two cars or have two cats,whatever it is, you don't care.
(22:30):
So there's a benefit.
I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, and then that attracts a certain kind of
person to you, people who admirethat.
You called it earlierindividualism.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
And as you get older and as I think, sometimes when
you're getting older, friendsstart to drop off.
But it's that individualismbecomes so, so important,
particularly when you're livingwith mental health challenges
too, because it's a difficultweight to lug around.
For sure, I want to get intoyour essay.
(23:05):
It's so wonderful and, like Isaid, it is a snapshot in time,
and so we're going to talk aboutit after you read it and talk
about where you are now and whatit feels like to look back.
So, without further ado, I'mgoing to let you take it away.
The essay is called the Traumaof Not being Traumatized Enough.
(23:28):
My Life with Pure OCD.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
When I was 19,.
I had just finished my freshmanyear of college and I was
diagnosed withobsessive-compulsive disorder
and bipolar disorder.
The weeks before the diagnosisI already knew that I had a
mental illness.
In fact, I was sure I was goingmad.
Every waking moment was filledwith thoughts that terrified me.
These thoughts were worthy ofthe internal workings of a movie
(23:57):
villain the Joker would want tobe my best bud.
Because I thought thesethoughts, I wondered if I
actually wanted to act on themand I worried.
If I wanted to do that, then Imust be the worst scum humanity
had ever seen.
Pretending I was okay was hard.
Remembering to breatheregularly was even harder.
Remembering to breatheregularly was even harder.
(24:21):
I suffer from pure harm OCD.
I have safety-relatedcompulsions which I believe I
subconsciously unleashed uponmyself to minimize the risks of
life Refusing to touch steakknives, staying away from ledges
and people who are close toledges, staying on the far side
of the sidewalk to avoid traffic, checking if the water is
turned off.
Whatever I can do to make sureI'm not going to harm myself or
others, whatever way there is tohurt someone, anyone, in a
(24:42):
violent, deadly way.
I have thought about it.
At one point.
One of the psychiatrists triedto comfort me by talking about
another harm OCD patientanonymously of course, who
thought about stabbing her baby.
Yeah, that terrified me furtherand put me off having kids.
Another thing that disturbs methe fact that I live on the
(25:03):
sixth floor.
I would move out, but it's myparents' place and therefore
rent-free.
Besides, I want to live abroad,so I need my savings.
Even after I learned the reasonfor the disturbing thoughts in
my head, the shock didn't wanefor some time.
For one thing, I had mostlybeen a happy person.
As far as I knew, there was nomental illness in the family.
(25:24):
Apart from one case ofdepression, I had never gone
through a major trauma In myhead.
What I had not been throughdidn't give me the right to be
going through such an ordeal ashaving a mental illness or two.
Knowing what I know now, I'msurprised.
I didn't exhibit any realsymptoms before I was 19.
I grew up in Turkey and I didn'tbelong.
(25:46):
Turkey is such a weird meltingpot Europe versus Asia,
mediterranean versus Balkans,modernity versus religion.
What makes it challenging isthat many people carry different
values from each group, so youwill have parents who will one
day be hip and understanding andthe next will launch you home
by nightfall.
But one thought always prevailsin our culture what do
(26:08):
neighbors, parents, friends,relatives think?
This forces an insincere senseof community and extreme
collectivism, and I have alwaysbeen a black sheep.
I was extremely individualistic,free-supported, idealistic and
creative.
I didn't care about religion orsociety, which led to many
fights with my parents, but theyloved and accepted who I was.
(26:29):
I wasn't that lucky withfriends, often finding myself
excluded Despite being friendlyand outgoing.
I didn't have best friendsuntil I was 16.
I was bullied a little, annoyeda lot and in return, grieved to
love my own mind.
I was my own best friend and,frankly, I liked myself more
(26:50):
than I liked the other teenagersaround.
Doing stupid stuff just to lookcool wasn't my thing, so I
wrote.
I had been crafting storiessince I was little.
I created screenplays withcharacters that did everything I
couldn't do.
In my late teens, my lifeconsisted of studying as much as
I could while holding my headupright when I couldn't.
(27:12):
Ellie McBeal and otherenjoyable shows provided me with
an escape, something thatresembled a life.
I believed that once I was incollege I would have the kind of
life I wrote about or sawthrough the CV screen.
Sometime after freshman yearended, these extremely revolting
thoughts invaded my head.
(27:34):
I was shocked, disgusted andterrified all at once.
They were mostly violentthoughts about harming myself
and others and those who wereclosest to me.
I didn't understand what washappening to me.
Like everyone, I would have theoccasional weird thought.
Rarely, I would go throughmoments of depersonalization,
(27:55):
feeling as though I wasn'tliving my life, but merely
observing it unfold before me.
Everything felt detached andforeign, but this feeling would
usually pass after a minute ortwo.
This time the horrible thoughtsweren't going anywhere.
The more I tried to escape them, the more they persisted.
I was convinced I was apsychopath.
(28:16):
The thoughts got so frequentand so powerful that I wanted to
die, just so they would stop.
I didn't want to kill myself, Ijust didn't want to wake up.
I started fantasizing aboutsci-fi-like procedures that
would erase the thoughtscompletely.
Anything but the hell my brainwas putting me through.
I would cry frequently.
(28:37):
My parents quickly realizedsomething was wrong and they
took me to a psychiatrist.
Unfortunately, thatpsychiatrist didn't dig deep at
all.
She made it all about sex, andI wanted someone who wouldn't
channel Freud.
The next ones didn't understandme at all either.
But giving up was not an option.
I wanted the old me back.
(28:58):
Luckily, the fourth time was thecharm.
We found the psychiatrist I'mstill seeing today.
He thoroughly listened to me.
He got a sense of who I was andwhy I hadn't responded well to
my previous doctors.
The doctor was compassionatebut mildly amused at my fear of
myself.
He assured me I wasn't a dangerto anyone.
Amused at my fear of myself, heassured me I wasn't a danger to
(29:20):
anyone.
I was just suffering from Puro,a version of OCD.
I was also mildly bipolar,which explained the mood swings.
It took me a while to acceptthat I had a mental illness.
All my life the media hadtaught me that in order to
suffer from mental illness, youhad to endure some kind of a
severe trauma.
Mental illness you had toendure some kind of a severe
trauma.
Pop culture also defines OCDsufferers as being all about
(29:42):
organization, cleanliness anddoing certain things.
A number of times I allegedlydidn't fit the bill.
Sure, I had some compulsions,but there was no specific number
.
Sometimes I checked thingstwice, sometimes five.
If there was someone in thehouse to whom I could delegate
the responsibility, I didn'tcheck at all.
Then there was the gene thing.
(30:02):
Sure, my grandmother had gonethrough severe depression when I
was a kid, but she had sufferedthrough a horrible marriage I
didn't consciously recognize.
My mother was very obsessiveand compulsive about many things
I didn't know.
My uncle had been officiallydiagnosed with OCD.
In fact there had been barelyanyone in the family who hadn't
suffered from OCD or depression.
(30:23):
My mom came clean about some ofher more troubling thoughts and
how my father's sister had beento therapy.
I talked with my uncle about myOCD.
At first he was just verysympathetic and supportive.
So I started talking more andmore about my situation and then
he talked about his owndiagnosis and my mother's own
(30:44):
obsessive and anxiouspersonality.
As I was trying to adjust to myOCD diagnosis, I didn't even
pay attention to my bipolar one,don't get me wrong.
I clung to my doctor's everyword on that subject and I tried
every medication withoutmissing a dose.
I read about my condition.
Tox therapy probably would havebeen beneficial, but it's not
covered by my insurance.
(31:05):
As my doctor and I slowly founda combo of meds that worked, I
felt less like a monster andmore like myself.
But adjusting to the newsituation and taking my mind off
my frightening thoughts tookmore than the meds and therapy.
As long as I was stable, Icould give in to my manic side.
I shopped till I dropped.
(31:26):
I took Italian and met up withmy friends.
I worked on my stories.
I talked to my parents openlyand I took long walks.
Feeling better, I convinced myparents to let me sign up for a
semester abroad the followingyear.
They were understandablyanxious, but my psychiatrist
agreed with me that it was agood idea.
My school arranged for me tojoin the Erasmus Exchange
(31:49):
program and I chose Norway forthe ultimate adventure.
The previous year I had alreadytraveled abroad with my college
friends to New York andEindhoven, first abroad trips
after my diagnosis.
Those experiences had gonebrilliantly.
So I also hoped I would try fora month in Vancouver in summer.
It would be a great trial runbefore I went to Norway Once
(32:12):
again.
Being abroad did wonders for me.
The thoughts that there to comewouldn't linger.
It was bliss.
My first couple days in Halden,norway, were a little strange.
It was late summer and I was bymyself most of the time, since
most students hadn't arrived yet.
I went on long walks around thesmall town and I had the rare
(32:33):
unwanted thought.
But these were less invasiveand less dangerous Stuff.
Like what if I threw myselfinto this lake?
It didn't even bug me because,a I knew I would probably not
throw myself into the lake.
B even if I did, I knew how toswim.
And C I didn't want toembarrass myself in a new
country.
Then my friends arrived and Iwasn't afraid of anything or
(32:55):
anyone, including myself.
It was one of the safest townson earth.
Most of my friends and and Iwasn't afraid of anything or
anyone, including myself.
It was one of the safest townson earth.
Most of my friends andneighbors were lovely.
I barely needed to studybecause I was only required to
pass.
It was as close to a perfectcollege freshman year as
depicted in comedy movies.
We partied, we traveled, welaughed.
There was even the occasionalromance.
(33:17):
I stayed for another term.
I took a semester worth of medswith me and I only needed to
call my doctor once when myobsessive thoughts acted up
again.
It was the end of the year.
My friends were leaving and Ifeared I wouldn't see most of
them again.
As my history proves to me overand over highly stressful
(33:38):
situations and by stressful Imean losing things that are dear
to me like my freedom, sense ofbelonging, health.
Greatest friends I had made ina while make me feel like I'm
drowning.
I also had to return to acountry that represented my
illness.
My country and most of thepeople living in it contributed
to it.
It felt suffocating.
On many occasions I would gofrom doing what I wanted, when I
(34:00):
wanted, with people who werelike me, to many people who
followed the fashion and crowdedeverything.
So I cried and I bawled.
I was scared of sharp objects.
I was scared of myself againand invasive wet-ups made my
stomach turn.
So I called my parents, kepttaking my meds and cried on the
shoulder of my new friends whowere still around.
(34:21):
This kept me from getting worseuntil I got home.
When I returned, I was a wreckfor a while, but after I met up
with other friends who had spenttime abroad, I realized we were
going through similar laws.
We had to study a lot moreanswer.
The worried parents and, worstof all, exist in a country that
(34:47):
felt more restrictive each day.
So from 2006 and 2007, we metup often to exchange phone
stories while we tried toreadjust.
As long as I was busyphysically, socially and
professionally, ocd didn'taffect me much.
Sometimes I would forget I hadit.
I hadn't suffered my majoranxiety crises in a long time.
I was a happy, well-functioningand busy professional, unless I
(35:07):
was sick.
This is a vicious cycle.
As years passed and I learned tojuggle two freelance careers as
a writer and a teacher.
Most of the thoughts remainedin the past.
I mostly recognize them as atrick that the chemical
imbalance in my brain plays onme.
There are certain trigger wordsand events that can allow the
disturbing thoughts to rush backin, but I can handle them.
(35:34):
Even when I'm sick I use otherdistractions until I'm back to
old, confident self again.
I haven't talked about bipolarmuch because my cycles aren't
that extreme.
The mania, which I suspect ismore hypomania, never has me do
anything I will regret.
My OCD isn't without benefits.
In this regard, I am veryconscious about safety and
(35:54):
convenience, so I am neveroverspending or abusing a
substance.
Let's not talk about chocolate,though.
The doses of medication havegone up and down over the years.
We have mixed it up or changedit.
I have been lucky about theside effects.
Apart from the horribledepression when I was first
adjusting, I've been fine.
Of course I have put on alittle weight, my sleep cycles
(36:16):
are a bit messed up and I sweattoo much, though we can probably
attribute this to thatmedicated senior year and
spending too much time glued tomy laptop.
For the most part, the initialpanic and terror OCD has linked
on me is a distant memory.
Often I don't even have thethoughts, but I just vaguely
remember that I had them.
Even have the thoughts, but Ijust vaguely remember that I had
them.
(36:36):
My writing is going well and mybiggest concern is that I might
not make my Hollywood dreamscome true.
I am as content as they come,except that I still have to
check the oven, water,electricity a couple of more
times than the average person,and I can't live with that.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Thank you so much for reading that and for going back
in time.
What was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (37:05):
It was a little different.
It was, in some ways, it's likeoh, my god, this is me.
I have been through this, andsometimes it was just like, oh,
look look at this person's story.
She has been through so much.
Wow, you know what an adventure.
It felt like somebody else'sstory, so it's very strange.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Why do you think that is?
Why do you think this is howyou're feeling about it, that
it's kind of a mix?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
I vividly remember everything that I wrote because
you know, these were like okay,it was a long time ago, but it
was a really long time period.
During my senior year in highschool, I was physically sick
all the time.
I always had a cold.
I couldn't get my head up.
I was heavily medicated, whichI think contributed to the
gastritis in college, whichcontributed to the OCD.
But I also remember the goodtimes, so I just remember I'm
(37:55):
living through them.
It's great, but also because Ithink I'm much better, it feels
like somebody else's story andit's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Yeah, and so even towards the end of this essay
and this was again 2016, 2017,you said you know, I really
don't think about it all thetime, and now you're over here.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Can you talk a little bit about what your life is
like now in relation to yourmental health?
It's pretty good.
A couple of weeks ago a friendof mine visited from abroad and
high school friends don't havesecrets.
They all know about who seeswhat psychiatrist, who is on
what medication and what those.
And a friend of mine wastelling me this.
She has also suffered fromanxiety and stuff like that.
She was talking about thisthing.
(38:49):
She went through with herhusband and boyfriend and my
friend's like.
He looks at me and he says areyou sure you have OCD?
Because I'm pretty much surethis is OCD like actually she
doesn't have OCD, that's whyhe's joking about it.
But nobody feels like I haveanxiety, and including me, so
that's a good thing.
I have anxiety, like littlethings, like we are going to a
(39:12):
podcast and I'm like, oh my god,what if I have to use the
bathroom or what if there's atech glitch.
But I think that's the kind ofanxiety everybody has.
At this point I'm not surepeople without that kind of
anxiety exists, or if they arenormal.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
To be honest, Right, exactly, if you weren't amped up
in some kind of way about this,maybe that would be a problem.
And the fact of the matter isso we talk about mental health
challenges and mental illness aslike okay, well, what are some
of the defining criteria?
And it's like well, if whatyou're experiencing impedes your
(39:50):
ability to do everyday tasksright.
And so if you were having thosethoughts about the podcast and
then you messaged me and youwere like Gabe, I'm sorry, I
can't do it, I just can't do it.
Because what if I have to go tothe bathroom?
What if there's a glitch andyou just bailed, right, but
you're able to have thosethoughts and then soothe
(40:13):
yourself to the point that hereyou were right.
Here's the prize.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Oh, I'm going to see Gabe Yay.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Exactly, and I mean you know who wouldn't want that
in their life.
You know you can get throughany kind of anxiety if the if
the reward at the end is isseeing me.
Obviously it's so wonderful tosee you like, bright and vibrant
and and not um, not wrestlingwith these mental health
(40:46):
challenges, and some of them maystill exist and some of them
are kind of on the back burner,not to make a point about the
stove and checking the stove.
But, like you, I guess theoverarching message here or you
can tell me if this is what itis, but it's these things may
never fully go away, but you canlive with them and live really
(41:08):
great lives.
So I mean, I don't know, isthat accurate for you?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Most of the time I feel like Iam so normal and I don't mean it
as a disrespect to anyone, butagain, you know what I'm talking
about.
Yeah, of course I can't believethis person is treating this
other person this way, likewhat's wrong with you, like why
(41:34):
don't you do some work onyourself so that you can be a
decent person to other people?
So there's that.
So it's good to feel that way,to feel like yourself, to feel
like you're happy and you canenjoy things, sometimes more
than other people can enjoythings, which is great.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
I guess you know, the question that I have at this
point is and this maybe relatesto a little bit of the anxiety,
but this is how my brain workswhen things are going well, I
always find myself going oh fuck, when is everything going to
fall apart?
Things are going really wellright now.
When is the sky going to falldown?
(42:14):
And I'm curious, if you havethoughts like that, that, okay,
my symptoms really aremanageable and under control,
I'm doing really great, I'mfeeling really good.
Do you ever get that thought oflike, oh my God, when is this
going to end?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Not necessarily, but I think that if it happens, I
can tell myself that it willpass, because it has, because
after I wrote the essay and Iwas really in a good place but
then something happened and Ihad this relapse and then it
(42:51):
went away like after a week ormaybe even less than that.
And then it went away likeafter a week or maybe even less
than that, and I just remindmyself that I know what triggers
it, so I stay away from it.
I am a little bit okay.
People who don't know what I'vebeen through might consider this
toxic positivity, but it's not.
It's okay to be feelingwhatever you're feeling, but if
(43:14):
you are feeling extremelyanxious or depressed or if you
want to rant negatively aboutyour life for hours, I'm not the
person to go to, because I'mlike an emotional sponge.
I feel every bit of negativething and it comes back to bite
me, you know, as a stomachcondition, as a sleepless night.
So it's like, okay, you need togo to a therapy or you need to
talk to another friend.
(43:35):
I mean, I can listen toproblems, but I can't be your
therapist.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
So I'm really good at boundaries, which is one of my
coping methods, and that's huge.
And I mean, I think that a lotof people who are public about
their mental health challengesrun the risk of being and I
really don't want to say theword used, because I don't think
(44:01):
that's what people are doing,but maybe the word is being
treated as a mental healthsupport, like, okay, so you were
open about your condition.
That means that you're a safeperson, which you are right,
which means that I can then goto you, which I think everybody
(44:21):
who is public about their mentalhealth challenges has to make a
decision about.
Am I okay with that?
And if I am okay with that, howmuch of that am I okay with?
And am I okay with saying notright now, I'm not in a place to
handle this right now, or I canonly handle this much, and then
(44:42):
doing a warm handoff, saying Ilove you, I care about you, but
I can't be this for you?
I think you need to talk to X, yor Z, whether it's another
person or it's a crisis line orit's something else.
Right?
Because, like I said earlier,the load that you're carrying,
(45:05):
that we're all carrying, isreally, really heavy.
It is, even if it feels lightat times, you've still got it
right, yeah.
So I think it's reallyimportant and very, very
valuable that you're able tomake that call to really protect
yourself.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Plus, if I'm a mess, you turn me into a mess.
You can't come back to me again, so me being healthy works for
you either way.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah, and I'm just so glad that we had this chance to
catch up with you and find youin such a good place.
It's so wonderful and such agift.
So thank you, pinar.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Thank you, it's been a pleasure, as always.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Before we go, I want you to let people know where can
they find you and your creativeworks.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
So I'm on Amazon.
If they type my name andsurname, they can find my novels
and my nonfiction guides, and Irun a writing blog called
Addicted to Writing, and if theygo to writingpinartharhancom
they can find me.
Everything is there Newsletter,books, updates, posts.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Wonderful and, of course, they can find your essay
and your film on our website,and the film, of course, is on
our YouTube channel, and I'mjust so grateful to you.
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
Thank you again for joining us in conversation today
.
It's beautiful to see theprogression of our contributors.
It was so wonderful to spendsome time with Pinar Tarhan,
easily the coolest author inIstanbul, turkey.
If you want to find out moreabout Pinar, you can visit the
site writingpinarcom.
You can also find her romancenovels on amazoncom and her
(46:56):
essay and film on our website.
Thanks so much to Pinar fortaking some time with us today.
Before we leave you, we want toremind you to check out our
website, recoverydiariesorg.
There, like this podcast,you'll find additional stories,
videos and content about mentalhealth, empowerment and change.
(47:16):
We look forward to continuingto grow our community.
Thank you so much for being apart of it.
We wouldn't be here without you.
Be sure to join our mailinglist so you never miss a podcast
episode, essay or film.
I'm Gabe Nathan.
Until next time, take good care.
Hello, this is Recovery Diaries In-Depth.
I'm your host, gabe Nathan.
Thanks so much for joining us.
We're very happy to have youhere.
We are so excited and happy tobe welcoming to the show Pinar
Tarhan.
She's a writer from Istanbul,turkey.
Her essay, the Trauma of Notbeing Traumatized Enough my Life
with Pure OCD, can be found onour website, as can a short film
(00:25):
we made about Pinar when shewas visiting the United States
in 2019 for a women's writersretreat we held in Cape May, new
Jersey.
Each week, we'll bring you aRecovery Diaries contributor
folks who have shared theirmental health journey with us
through essay or video format.
We want to see where they areon their mental health journey
since initially being publishedon our website.
(00:45):
Our goal is to continuesupporting our diverse community
by having conversations here onour podcast to follow up and
see what has shifted, what haschanged and what new things have
emerged.
We're so happy to have youalong for this journey.
We want to remind you to followour show for new and back
episodes at recoverydiariesorg.
(01:06):
There, like the podcast, you'llfind stories of mental health,
empowerment and change.
You can also sign up for ourmailing list there so you never
miss a new podcast episode,essay or film, and you can find
this podcast pretty muchanywhere.
You get your podcasts.
We appreciate your comments andfeedback about our show.
It helps us improve, makechanges and grow.
(01:27):
And, of course, make sure tolike, share and subscribe.
Pinar Tarhan, welcome toRecovery Diaries In-Depth.
It is an absolute joy to seeyou.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Hi, I'm so glad to see you again.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I can't believe it, and so see you again.
Please talk about when we lastsaw each other.
What was that all about?
What was happening?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I think it was like 2019, right, we were on a
writing retreat together becauseyou invited us and it was such
a great time and I got to meetso many lovely writers.
We are still kind of in touch.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
And you came all the way from your home in Istanbul.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah, it was, you know, and I was talking to Flo
about this.
We were talking to her our ourprevious episode and Flo said
you know, it was really like adream, um and Flo came from
Rwanda, and we had Claire fromthe UK, um Sanyukta from India,
um Liza from Australia, uh, andyou, and I think that's everyone
(02:46):
Um the international, the groupand you know, coming here,
landing here, spending threedays in Cape May at the beach,
um writing and listening andlearning and laughing and
experiencing the kind of thefull depth and breadth of of not
just like mental healthstorytelling but connection, and
(03:09):
thinking about it now,especially because COVID came
right on its heels, it reallydoes feel like a dream, though.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, definitely.
It's a crazy town and it was myfirst writing retreat, so
incredible memories there, wow.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And that's quite a first.
So you came to us a coupleyears before that with your
essay.
And how did you find us, do youremember?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Probably I saw a pitch call, because I frequently
subscribe to email lists fromeditors or other writers sharing
pitch calls from editors.
Or maybe I found an essay Idon't quite remember.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
It's been a hot minute, so, yeah, it's hard to
remember that far back I wouldsay your essay was probably like
2017, maybe.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Okay.
So if you can think back tothat essay and you're going to
be reading it on the show andI'm very excited to hear it in
your voice Can you think back towhen you were writing that
piece and kind of who you wereback then as a human being, but
also as someone living withmental health challenges and
(04:32):
making a decision to writepublicly about them?
And if you can also talk about,was this your first time doing
that in this essay, or had youwritten publicly about your
mental health before?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
time doing that in this essay, or had you written
publicly about your mentalhealth before?
I think I mentioned it here andthere.
I have a newsletter, I have awriter's website and I often
talk about health issues, sothat includes mental challenges
as well.
But it was my first really open, really honest essay with all
the backstory, with all thediagnoses and the adventures
(05:06):
that led to that diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So yeah, and what was that like for you?
Did you have a little anxietyor trepidation about?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
being so public.
A little I did, but I was alsoexcited because I really wanted
this essay out there in theworld, because a lot of people
don't write about this kind ofOCD, the kind that I have.
And whenever I find somethinglike this it's like a diamond,
you know, in the wild, like it'sin the rough, and I thought,
(05:37):
okay, people really could usehelp, because if I had known
about this before, it would havebeen so much easier for me.
So I thought maybe it can helpothers going forward.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And I know that it has, and I want you to know and
understand that now, since then,since writing and publishing
this essay, you're one of thosediamonds that other people out
there are finding kind ofshimmering in the dark.
They're looking for help,they're looking for answers,
they're looking for answers,they're looking for resources,
(06:11):
and you can find all of thatkind of stuff on health websites
or mental health websites andscholarly articles or things
written by practitioners, butwhat's just as important, if not
more important, is a humanstory, exactly, and I'm just so
grateful to you for steppingforward and saying I may be
nervous and anxious about this,but it's worth it for other
people to be able to find this.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Exactly yes, and I'm so grateful to you because you
liked it and you saw the storyhere, so thank you.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Absolutely.
It was the absolute first essayabout Puro and Harmo's CD and
we're going to talk about all ofthat that I had ever received,
and you're such a good writer,you're such a strong writer and
you know this isn't just aone-off, this is your career, so
it's very clear to me that thisis something that I felt very
(07:02):
strongly about wanting topresent to our community and to
anyone who just stumbles acrossus online.
So, thank you.
Have you heard from folks whoread the essay?
Do people reach out to you?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I have Sometimes people reach out to me on
Instagram and they say, okay, soI have this, and thank you, or
how did you find your doctor?
Or how did you you doctor, orhow did you, you know, how did
this happen?
And yeah, not as many as you, Isuppose, but I have some people
who reach out and it's alwaysgreat to know that I could have
(07:37):
helped.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
So can you talk a little bit about your diagnoses
and you know, just for peoplewho don't know, and obviously
we're going to get into it inyour essay.
But if you can just talk alittle bit about your diagnoses
and just for people who don'tknow, and obviously we're going
to get into it in your essay butif you can just talk a little
bit about what you live with,what you've been diagnosed with,
I think that would be helpfulfor folks to know.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Right.
So I've been diagnosed with OCD, but it's like a subset.
It's called harm OCD or puroand it's mostly about obsessive
thoughts and not necessarilycompulsive acts.
I have very few compulsions andmostly it's just intrusive,
disturbing thoughts.
So it's never about doingsomething for a specific amount
(08:18):
of time in a specific amount ofway.
It's not about being overlyclean or overly organized.
In fact, I'm super messy.
I've always been messy and itcontinues.
Ocd hasn't changed that.
So it took a while for me tounderstand that this is the type
of OCD that existed.
So I'm really grateful to thedoctors who diagnosed this.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Can you talk a little bit about the thoughts, because
some of these thoughts arefrightening and being in the
mental health space.
You see a lot of stuff onsocial media that is, I think,
directed at people who havemental health challenges, like
(09:05):
anxiety, for instance, which Ilive with anxiety, and I
understand the goal behind memesor messages that are like hey
girl, your thoughts are justthoughts, don't believe
everything.
You think stuff like that.
Okay, and I think that's finefor people who live in the land
(09:29):
of what if, which is whatanxiety really is.
What if I'm late for thisappointment?
What if I don't turn thisreport in on time?
What if my boss gets angry atme?
What if I get fired?
What if I did it?
And that's you know, that'swhere my brain lives all the
time.
Yeah, your thoughts are alittle different, the words that
are related to pure O, so canyou talk a little bit about that
(09:51):
and what you do to helpyourself cope with those?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Right.
So actually I have anxiety aswell, which often comes as a
side dish to OCD.
It's either depression oranxiety or both.
But the toast that I had and Isay I had because I have gotten
a lot better since the, becauseI was better when I wrote the
(10:16):
essay, but I have also sincecontinued to get better and
mostly the compulsions haveremained the stuff that I do,
you know, checking the oven,checking if the water is off,
checking if the door is locked,and a lot of these actually even
make sense where I live,because you know the building
has had a lot of break-ins andwe live on earthquake zone and
(10:40):
you know it's really good if theheat is off.
You know what I mean.
But thoughts-wise I've beenreally well.
So you want me to go back towhat they were.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, I mean that's first of all.
That's wonderful.
I'm delighted, and part of thereason why we are doing this
podcast I'd say most of thereason we're doing this podcast
is because the essays peoplewrite and also the films when
you made a film when you werehere in Cape May, they're a
snapshot in time.
Yeah exactly, and you're kind offrozen in there for people who
(11:16):
either read the essay or watchthe film.
This podcast, once this is outthere in the world, is going to
be the same thing.
This will be a snapshot in 2025.
This is out there in the worldis going to be the same thing.
This will be a snapshot in, youknow, 2025.
But we wanted to bring peopleback because we're all curious,
like, okay, you wrote this essay, but in 2017, well, now what?
You said this and this and thisand this film, but now what?
(11:38):
Um, we want to continue gettingto know Pinar and we don't just
want to be like presenting thenarrative that, okay, this is
the essay and then this personlived happily ever after yeah,
right.
I don't want that, and we don'tknow what that we don't know
that.
That's the truth, or so we just.
(11:59):
That's part of the motivationbehind doing this.
So, yeah, talk to us a littlebit about the thoughts that you
did have in the past.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
A big majority of it was, I think it's called a call
of the void.
It's a real term people face,like if you are standing on the
edge of a cliff, you will havethis urge to jump, even if you
are not remotely suicidal.
Or if you see someone, you willhave the urge to push them,
even if you don't actually wantto push these people.
(12:28):
So a lot of the thoughts werealong those lines what if I jump
from here?
What if I push someone here?
What if I do this?
What if I do that?
And the results were dangerous,let's say, or it results in
death.
And of course it freaked me outbecause I write romantic
comedies.
I'm pretty bubbly, you knowthat, and it's not something
(12:50):
that I put on to mask the OCD,it's just who I have always been
right.
So when the thoughts came I waslike what the hell you know?
Like?
So I might be killing flieslike Al Capone, but that's it.
That's the you know gist of theviolence that I have caused in
my life.
So that was a really big shock.
(13:10):
Like what's happening to me?
Did I suddenly turn into apsychopath overnight?
What happened?
So that was the panic.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
And so right.
So then, what did you do withthat panic?
I mean, because that's aterrifying thing, a to have
those thoughts and B, to kind ofhave them come out of the blue.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
And the problem is the logic goes away completely.
No matter how educated you are,how smart you are, once they
come, logic goes away.
I was sure that if my parentsfound out they would disown me
or like they would be terrifiedof me.
Me or like they would beterrified of me.
But they understood before Ihad to openly go and, you know,
(13:50):
talk about what I was going to.
They, okay, you are not fine,something is going on, what's
what's wrong?
And I told them and they werereally understanding.
You know they didn't disown me,they just, you know, took me to
doctors and it took a while tofind the right doctor because,
you know, finding the righttherapist and psychiatrist is
like dating there has to bemutual understanding, there has
to be a matching of values,styles, personalities have to
(14:13):
match.
So it took a while but I foundthe right psychiatrist and back
then I wasn't doing talk therapybecause a lot of the therapists
that I found did not vibe,let's say.
But then I found the therapistbecause I was also having lots
of physical health issues thatactually preceded the mental
(14:34):
health diagnosis, right.
So this doctor was really intoand he's a psychologist who went
to med school, who decided togo into psychology later, so
he's really into functionalmedicine, so he looks at the
whole of the body and the mindand it really helped with my
stomach issues, with my immunesystem issues and when they got
better, ocd also got better.
(14:56):
I'm still on meds like I'm notletting those meds go.
The meds are great, but the youknow, eating the right stuff
and doing the right stuff, likemeditation, talking with a
person who is a doctor, slashlife coach, slash therapist
really helped as well.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
It's wonderful and that's something that's
important too to talk about.
And I actually just did anInstagram live where I was
promoting the essay for the weekand I was talking about how,
not only is recovery not linear,like I think we have a lot of
bullshit ideas about whatrecovery is, but I think some
(15:35):
people think that it's up, up,up, up, up, up up, and then it's
kind of just this plateau whenwe really know it's all like
this right plateau when wereally know it's all like this
right.
So not only is it not linear,but there's not a single path to
recovery.
There's not like, oh, it's justtherapy, or it's just therapy
(15:55):
and meds, or it's justmeditation, or it's just this.
There are so many differentthings that can work for so many
different people, and it'sreally nice for you to remind us
that sometimes it's amulti-pronged approach and
sometimes it's that kind ofholistic approach which I think
we probably need more of,because the physical side
(16:18):
neglects the mental side and themental side neglects the
physical, and it isinterconnected.
Um, so that's really.
It's an important reminder too.
Can you talk a little bit about, I guess talk a little bit
about the mismatch between youand the values of of your
country and also views aboutmental health that are prevalent
(16:42):
in Turkey?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I think the good thing is, turkey has become very
I don't know what's the rightword, but I want to say good
about mental health, becausewhen you go to your therapist's
office or when you go to apsychiatrist's office, you see
people from all walks of life,so it's not a class thing, it's.
(17:05):
I mean, whether it's affordableor whether enough is being done
is another story, but peopleknow that mental health is an
issue and people accept this asan actual illness.
So there isn't that much of astigma from what I have seen.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Do you feel like go ahead?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
When you go to a friend's meeting and if you are
close, if you have known eachother for a couple of years,
usually stories come upEverybody has been to therapy,
everybody has been diagnosedwith anxiety and another
disorder on the side, or anxietyand panic attacks and
depression.
Similar generations, similareducational system.
(17:44):
So it's not a stigma.
That's something I I like aboutthe country and we have some
really good doctors.
But go ahead the country is amelting pot and it's not like
the United States where a lot ofpeople also tend to look
(18:06):
different.
So people expect a clash ofvalues in a sense, but here
everybody kind of looks likeeach other but the values are
extremely different.
It's the history thing,geography thing, class thing,
economy thing.
It's all over the place right.
So you don't know is going tobe a person with european values
(18:28):
, is something going to be moremediterranean, which is also
very similar to balkans incertain ways.
A turkish person can relate to ameme from pretty much any part
of the world, including themiddle east, and that makes it
harder to find your own people.
Because I am more intoindividualism, like I love my
(18:48):
friends, I love my family, Ilike people in general and I'm
extroverted, but I like doingthings for me and not this whole
what would society think, whatwould parents think, what would
my friends think, sort of thing.
So that did lead to someloneliness while I was growing
up before I found my tribe.
That was hard as a teenager.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And finding your tribe.
It's so, so important for yourmental health Because, like you
said, when you're gettingtogether with people who you've
known, there's that connectionand there's that bond and
there's that feeling of safety.
Like that we can talk aboutlike the real, the real shit and
really get into it with eachother.
But if you're just starting outwith someone and, like you said
(19:33):
, if you're not sure wherepeople are, that can be really
tricky.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
How did that impact your mental health growing up?
Do you think?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
I think you know I titled my essay like the trauma
of not being traumatized enough.
It was just little traumas hereand there.
I have been bullied, I havebeen teased and to this day I
still don't understand thepurpose.
Right, and peer pressure neverreally worked on me, because why
are you smoking, like what'sthe point?
(20:03):
But that doesn't alwaystranslate well within teens,
that you don't really care aboutpeer pressure or that what you
think is cool is somethingcompletely different than what
they think is cool.
So I'm.
That did kind of lead to uh,it's not fun when you're
excluded and it takes so long tofind your people.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Okay, it builds your character but I think it might
also build anxiety.
Well sure, because it's like amI ever going to find people
with whom I connect?
Am I ever going to not feellike shit?
Am I ever going to feel likeI'm not a target for being
bullied?
And I mean, I speak from a lotof experience with that too.
(20:49):
It's really, really harmful andit really does tell you you
really do start to believe whatyour bullies tell you that it's
like well, this is the rightstory, this is who I am.
I am weak or I'm stupid or I'mwhatever it is that they're
throwing at you.
You really do start tointernalize that and tell
(21:11):
yourself this is they're right.
They're right about me.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Or at least you believe that.
Okay, you are strange, you aredifferent, you're abnormal.
Okay then, where are my peopleat?
Do they exist?
Will I ever be able to findthem like?
Even if the stories in yourhead aren't inherently that
negative, it can still be alittle hopeless.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
And so can you just talk about the work that you had
to do to push back against thatnarrative.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I wrote, I watched movies and I read a lot and I
became obsessed.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Same same same.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
And then I turned it into a career.
But funny thing is the thingsthat people thought made you
weird later becomes things thatpeople admire you for.
It might even be the samepeople ironically Like.
It turned into an obsessionwith another language.
It turned into writing andreading and watching movies and
(22:10):
watching series, and I stilllove those things.
So I guess there was a benefitto it, like not being made not
to care about society.
So the benefit is when you havegrown up you couldn't care less
if people think you should bemarried with five kids or drive
two cars or have two cats,whatever it is, you don't care.
(22:30):
So there's a benefit.
I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, and then that attracts a certain kind of
person to you, people who admirethat.
You called it earlierindividualism.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
And as you get older and as I think, sometimes when
you're getting older, friendsstart to drop off.
But it's that individualismbecomes so, so important,
particularly when you're livingwith mental health challenges
too, because it's a difficultweight to lug around.
For sure, I want to get intoyour essay.
(23:05):
It's so wonderful and, like Isaid, it is a snapshot in time,
and so we're going to talk aboutit after you read it and talk
about where you are now and whatit feels like to look back.
So, without further ado, I'mgoing to let you take it away.
The essay is called the Traumaof Not being Traumatized Enough.
(23:28):
My Life with Pure OCD.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
When I was 19,.
I had just finished my freshmanyear of college and I was
diagnosed withobsessive-compulsive disorder
and bipolar disorder.
The weeks before the diagnosisI already knew that I had a
mental illness.
In fact, I was sure I was goingmad.
Every waking moment was filledwith thoughts that terrified me.
These thoughts were worthy ofthe internal workings of a movie
(23:57):
villain the Joker would want tobe my best bud.
Because I thought thesethoughts, I wondered if I
actually wanted to act on themand I worried.
If I wanted to do that, then Imust be the worst scum humanity
had ever seen.
Pretending I was okay was hard.
Remembering to breatheregularly was even harder.
Remembering to breatheregularly was even harder.
(24:21):
I suffer from pure harm OCD.
I have safety-relatedcompulsions which I believe I
subconsciously unleashed uponmyself to minimize the risks of
life Refusing to touch steakknives, staying away from ledges
and people who are close toledges, staying on the far side
of the sidewalk to avoid traffic, checking if the water is
turned off.
Whatever I can do to make sureI'm not going to harm myself or
others, whatever way there is tohurt someone, anyone, in a
(24:42):
violent, deadly way.
I have thought about it.
At one point.
One of the psychiatrists triedto comfort me by talking about
another harm OCD patientanonymously of course, who
thought about stabbing her baby.
Yeah, that terrified me furtherand put me off having kids.
Another thing that disturbs methe fact that I live on the
(25:03):
sixth floor.
I would move out, but it's myparents' place and therefore
rent-free.
Besides, I want to live abroad,so I need my savings.
Even after I learned the reasonfor the disturbing thoughts in
my head, the shock didn't wanefor some time.
For one thing, I had mostlybeen a happy person.
As far as I knew, there was nomental illness in the family.
(25:24):
Apart from one case ofdepression, I had never gone
through a major trauma In myhead.
What I had not been throughdidn't give me the right to be
going through such an ordeal ashaving a mental illness or two.
Knowing what I know now, I'msurprised.
I didn't exhibit any realsymptoms before I was 19.
I grew up in Turkey and I didn'tbelong.
(25:46):
Turkey is such a weird meltingpot Europe versus Asia,
mediterranean versus Balkans,modernity versus religion.
What makes it challenging isthat many people carry different
values from each group, so youwill have parents who will one
day be hip and understanding andthe next will launch you home
by nightfall.
But one thought always prevailsin our culture what do
(26:08):
neighbors, parents, friends,relatives think?
This forces an insincere senseof community and extreme
collectivism, and I have alwaysbeen a black sheep.
I was extremely individualistic,free-supported, idealistic and
creative.
I didn't care about religion orsociety, which led to many
fights with my parents, but theyloved and accepted who I was.
(26:29):
I wasn't that lucky withfriends, often finding myself
excluded Despite being friendlyand outgoing.
I didn't have best friendsuntil I was 16.
I was bullied a little, annoyeda lot and in return, grieved to
love my own mind.
I was my own best friend and,frankly, I liked myself more
(26:50):
than I liked the other teenagersaround.
Doing stupid stuff just to lookcool wasn't my thing, so I
wrote.
I had been crafting storiessince I was little.
I created screenplays withcharacters that did everything I
couldn't do.
In my late teens, my lifeconsisted of studying as much as
I could while holding my headupright when I couldn't.
(27:12):
Ellie McBeal and otherenjoyable shows provided me with
an escape, something thatresembled a life.
I believed that once I was incollege I would have the kind of
life I wrote about or sawthrough the CV screen.
Sometime after freshman yearended, these extremely revolting
thoughts invaded my head.
(27:34):
I was shocked, disgusted andterrified all at once.
They were mostly violentthoughts about harming myself
and others and those who wereclosest to me.
I didn't understand what washappening to me.
Like everyone, I would have theoccasional weird thought.
Rarely, I would go throughmoments of depersonalization,
(27:55):
feeling as though I wasn'tliving my life, but merely
observing it unfold before me.
Everything felt detached andforeign, but this feeling would
usually pass after a minute ortwo.
This time the horrible thoughtsweren't going anywhere.
The more I tried to escape them, the more they persisted.
I was convinced I was apsychopath.
(28:16):
The thoughts got so frequentand so powerful that I wanted to
die, just so they would stop.
I didn't want to kill myself, Ijust didn't want to wake up.
I started fantasizing aboutsci-fi-like procedures that
would erase the thoughtscompletely.
Anything but the hell my brainwas putting me through.
I would cry frequently.
(28:37):
My parents quickly realizedsomething was wrong and they
took me to a psychiatrist.
Unfortunately, thatpsychiatrist didn't dig deep at
all.
She made it all about sex, andI wanted someone who wouldn't
channel Freud.
The next ones didn't understandme at all either.
But giving up was not an option.
I wanted the old me back.
(28:58):
Luckily, the fourth time was thecharm.
We found the psychiatrist I'mstill seeing today.
He thoroughly listened to me.
He got a sense of who I was andwhy I hadn't responded well to
my previous doctors.
The doctor was compassionatebut mildly amused at my fear of
myself.
He assured me I wasn't a dangerto anyone.
Amused at my fear of myself, heassured me I wasn't a danger to
(29:20):
anyone.
I was just suffering from Puro,a version of OCD.
I was also mildly bipolar,which explained the mood swings.
It took me a while to acceptthat I had a mental illness.
All my life the media hadtaught me that in order to
suffer from mental illness, youhad to endure some kind of a
severe trauma.
Mental illness you had toendure some kind of a severe
trauma.
Pop culture also defines OCDsufferers as being all about
(29:42):
organization, cleanliness anddoing certain things.
A number of times I allegedlydidn't fit the bill.
Sure, I had some compulsions,but there was no specific number
.
Sometimes I checked thingstwice, sometimes five.
If there was someone in thehouse to whom I could delegate
the responsibility, I didn'tcheck at all.
Then there was the gene thing.
(30:02):
Sure, my grandmother had gonethrough severe depression when I
was a kid, but she had sufferedthrough a horrible marriage I
didn't consciously recognize.
My mother was very obsessiveand compulsive about many things
I didn't know.
My uncle had been officiallydiagnosed with OCD.
In fact there had been barelyanyone in the family who hadn't
suffered from OCD or depression.
(30:23):
My mom came clean about some ofher more troubling thoughts and
how my father's sister had beento therapy.
I talked with my uncle about myOCD.
At first he was just verysympathetic and supportive.
So I started talking more andmore about my situation and then
he talked about his owndiagnosis and my mother's own
(30:44):
obsessive and anxiouspersonality.
As I was trying to adjust to myOCD diagnosis, I didn't even
pay attention to my bipolar one,don't get me wrong.
I clung to my doctor's everyword on that subject and I tried
every medication withoutmissing a dose.
I read about my condition.
Tox therapy probably would havebeen beneficial, but it's not
covered by my insurance.
(31:05):
As my doctor and I slowly founda combo of meds that worked, I
felt less like a monster andmore like myself.
But adjusting to the newsituation and taking my mind off
my frightening thoughts tookmore than the meds and therapy.
As long as I was stable, Icould give in to my manic side.
I shopped till I dropped.
(31:26):
I took Italian and met up withmy friends.
I worked on my stories.
I talked to my parents openlyand I took long walks.
Feeling better, I convinced myparents to let me sign up for a
semester abroad the followingyear.
They were understandablyanxious, but my psychiatrist
agreed with me that it was agood idea.
My school arranged for me tojoin the Erasmus Exchange
(31:49):
program and I chose Norway forthe ultimate adventure.
The previous year I had alreadytraveled abroad with my college
friends to New York andEindhoven, first abroad trips
after my diagnosis.
Those experiences had gonebrilliantly.
So I also hoped I would try fora month in Vancouver in summer.
It would be a great trial runbefore I went to Norway Once
(32:12):
again.
Being abroad did wonders for me.
The thoughts that there to comewouldn't linger.
It was bliss.
My first couple days in Halden,norway, were a little strange.
It was late summer and I was bymyself most of the time, since
most students hadn't arrived yet.
I went on long walks around thesmall town and I had the rare
(32:33):
unwanted thought.
But these were less invasiveand less dangerous Stuff.
Like what if I threw myselfinto this lake?
It didn't even bug me because,a I knew I would probably not
throw myself into the lake.
B even if I did, I knew how toswim.
And C I didn't want toembarrass myself in a new
country.
Then my friends arrived and Iwasn't afraid of anything or
(32:55):
anyone, including myself.
It was one of the safest townson earth.
Most of my friends and and Iwasn't afraid of anything or
anyone, including myself.
It was one of the safest townson earth.
Most of my friends andneighbors were lovely.
I barely needed to studybecause I was only required to
pass.
It was as close to a perfectcollege freshman year as
depicted in comedy movies.
We partied, we traveled, welaughed.
There was even the occasionalromance.
(33:17):
I stayed for another term.
I took a semester worth of medswith me and I only needed to
call my doctor once when myobsessive thoughts acted up
again.
It was the end of the year.
My friends were leaving and Ifeared I wouldn't see most of
them again.
As my history proves to me overand over highly stressful
(33:38):
situations and by stressful Imean losing things that are dear
to me like my freedom, sense ofbelonging, health.
Greatest friends I had made ina while make me feel like I'm
drowning.
I also had to return to acountry that represented my
illness.
My country and most of thepeople living in it contributed
to it.
It felt suffocating.
On many occasions I would gofrom doing what I wanted, when I
(34:00):
wanted, with people who werelike me, to many people who
followed the fashion and crowdedeverything.
So I cried and I bawled.
I was scared of sharp objects.
I was scared of myself againand invasive wet-ups made my
stomach turn.
So I called my parents, kepttaking my meds and cried on the
shoulder of my new friends whowere still around.
(34:21):
This kept me from getting worseuntil I got home.
When I returned, I was a wreckfor a while, but after I met up
with other friends who had spenttime abroad, I realized we were
going through similar laws.
We had to study a lot moreanswer.
The worried parents and, worstof all, exist in a country that
(34:47):
felt more restrictive each day.
So from 2006 and 2007, we metup often to exchange phone
stories while we tried toreadjust.
As long as I was busyphysically, socially and
professionally, ocd didn'taffect me much.
Sometimes I would forget I hadit.
I hadn't suffered my majoranxiety crises in a long time.
I was a happy, well-functioningand busy professional, unless I
(35:07):
was sick.
This is a vicious cycle.
As years passed and I learned tojuggle two freelance careers as
a writer and a teacher.
Most of the thoughts remainedin the past.
I mostly recognize them as atrick that the chemical
imbalance in my brain plays onme.
There are certain trigger wordsand events that can allow the
disturbing thoughts to rush backin, but I can handle them.
(35:34):
Even when I'm sick I use otherdistractions until I'm back to
old, confident self again.
I haven't talked about bipolarmuch because my cycles aren't
that extreme.
The mania, which I suspect ismore hypomania, never has me do
anything I will regret.
My OCD isn't without benefits.
In this regard, I am veryconscious about safety and
(35:54):
convenience, so I am neveroverspending or abusing a
substance.
Let's not talk about chocolate,though.
The doses of medication havegone up and down over the years.
We have mixed it up or changedit.
I have been lucky about theside effects.
Apart from the horribledepression when I was first
adjusting, I've been fine.
Of course I have put on alittle weight, my sleep cycles
(36:16):
are a bit messed up and I sweattoo much, though we can probably
attribute this to thatmedicated senior year and
spending too much time glued tomy laptop.
For the most part, the initialpanic and terror OCD has linked
on me is a distant memory.
Often I don't even have thethoughts, but I just vaguely
remember that I had them.
Even have the thoughts, but Ijust vaguely remember that I had
them.
(36:36):
My writing is going well and mybiggest concern is that I might
not make my Hollywood dreamscome true.
I am as content as they come,except that I still have to
check the oven, water,electricity a couple of more
times than the average person,and I can't live with that.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Thank you so much for reading that and for going back
in time.
What was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (37:05):
It was a little different.
It was, in some ways, it's likeoh, my god, this is me.
I have been through this, andsometimes it was just like, oh,
look look at this person's story.
She has been through so much.
Wow, you know what an adventure.
It felt like somebody else'sstory, so it's very strange.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Why do you think that is?
Why do you think this is howyou're feeling about it, that
it's kind of a mix?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
I vividly remember everything that I wrote because
you know, these were like okay,it was a long time ago, but it
was a really long time period.
During my senior year in highschool, I was physically sick
all the time.
I always had a cold.
I couldn't get my head up.
I was heavily medicated, whichI think contributed to the
gastritis in college, whichcontributed to the OCD.
But I also remember the goodtimes, so I just remember I'm
(37:55):
living through them.
It's great, but also because Ithink I'm much better, it feels
like somebody else's story andit's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Yeah, and so even towards the end of this essay
and this was again 2016, 2017,you said you know, I really
don't think about it all thetime, and now you're over here.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Can you talk a little bit about what your life is
like now in relation to yourmental health?
It's pretty good.
A couple of weeks ago a friendof mine visited from abroad and
high school friends don't havesecrets.
They all know about who seeswhat psychiatrist, who is on
what medication and what those.
And a friend of mine wastelling me this.
She has also suffered fromanxiety and stuff like that.
She was talking about thisthing.
(38:49):
She went through with herhusband and boyfriend and my
friend's like.
He looks at me and he says areyou sure you have OCD?
Because I'm pretty much surethis is OCD like actually she
doesn't have OCD, that's whyhe's joking about it.
But nobody feels like I haveanxiety, and including me, so
that's a good thing.
I have anxiety, like littlethings, like we are going to a
(39:12):
podcast and I'm like, oh my god,what if I have to use the
bathroom or what if there's atech glitch.
But I think that's the kind ofanxiety everybody has.
At this point I'm not surepeople without that kind of
anxiety exists, or if they arenormal.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
To be honest, Right, exactly, if you weren't amped up
in some kind of way about this,maybe that would be a problem.
And the fact of the matter isso we talk about mental health
challenges and mental illness aslike okay, well, what are some
of the defining criteria?
And it's like well, if whatyou're experiencing impedes your
(39:50):
ability to do everyday tasksright.
And so if you were having thosethoughts about the podcast and
then you messaged me and youwere like Gabe, I'm sorry, I
can't do it, I just can't do it.
Because what if I have to go tothe bathroom?
What if there's a glitch andyou just bailed, right, but
you're able to have thosethoughts and then soothe
(40:13):
yourself to the point that hereyou were right.
Here's the prize.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Oh, I'm going to see Gabe Yay.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Exactly, and I mean you know who wouldn't want that
in their life.
You know you can get throughany kind of anxiety if the if
the reward at the end is isseeing me.
Obviously it's so wonderful tosee you like, bright and vibrant
and and not um, not wrestlingwith these mental health
(40:46):
challenges, and some of them maystill exist and some of them
are kind of on the back burner,not to make a point about the
stove and checking the stove.
But, like you, I guess theoverarching message here or you
can tell me if this is what itis, but it's these things may
never fully go away, but you canlive with them and live really
(41:08):
great lives.
So I mean, I don't know, isthat accurate for you?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Most of the time I feel like Iam so normal and I don't mean it
as a disrespect to anyone, butagain, you know what I'm talking
about.
Yeah, of course I can't believethis person is treating this
other person this way, likewhat's wrong with you, like why
(41:34):
don't you do some work onyourself so that you can be a
decent person to other people?
So there's that.
So it's good to feel that way,to feel like yourself, to feel
like you're happy and you canenjoy things, sometimes more
than other people can enjoythings, which is great.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
I guess you know, the question that I have at this
point is and this maybe relatesto a little bit of the anxiety,
but this is how my brain workswhen things are going well, I
always find myself going oh fuck, when is everything going to
fall apart?
Things are going really wellright now.
When is the sky going to falldown?
(42:14):
And I'm curious, if you havethoughts like that, that, okay,
my symptoms really aremanageable and under control,
I'm doing really great, I'mfeeling really good.
Do you ever get that thought oflike, oh my God, when is this
going to end?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Not necessarily, but I think that if it happens, I
can tell myself that it willpass, because it has, because
after I wrote the essay and Iwas really in a good place but
then something happened and Ihad this relapse and then it
(42:51):
went away like after a week ormaybe even less than that.
And then it went away likeafter a week or maybe even less
than that, and I just remindmyself that I know what triggers
it, so I stay away from it.
I am a little bit okay.
People who don't know what I'vebeen through might consider this
toxic positivity, but it's not.
It's okay to be feelingwhatever you're feeling, but if
(43:14):
you are feeling extremelyanxious or depressed or if you
want to rant negatively aboutyour life for hours, I'm not the
person to go to, because I'mlike an emotional sponge.
I feel every bit of negativething and it comes back to bite
me, you know, as a stomachcondition, as a sleepless night.
So it's like, okay, you need togo to a therapy or you need to
talk to another friend.
(43:35):
I mean, I can listen toproblems, but I can't be your
therapist.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
So I'm really good at boundaries, which is one of my
coping methods, and that's huge.
And I mean, I think that a lotof people who are public about
their mental health challengesrun the risk of being and I
really don't want to say theword used, because I don't think
(44:01):
that's what people are doing,but maybe the word is being
treated as a mental healthsupport, like, okay, so you were
open about your condition.
That means that you're a safeperson, which you are right,
which means that I can then goto you, which I think everybody
(44:21):
who is public about their mentalhealth challenges has to make a
decision about.
Am I okay with that?
And if I am okay with that, howmuch of that am I okay with?
And am I okay with saying notright now, I'm not in a place to
handle this right now, or I canonly handle this much, and then
(44:42):
doing a warm handoff, saying Ilove you, I care about you, but
I can't be this for you?
I think you need to talk to X, yor Z, whether it's another
person or it's a crisis line orit's something else.
Right?
Because, like I said earlier,the load that you're carrying,
(45:05):
that we're all carrying, isreally, really heavy.
It is, even if it feels lightat times, you've still got it
right, yeah.
So I think it's reallyimportant and very, very
valuable that you're able tomake that call to really protect
yourself.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Plus, if I'm a mess, you turn me into a mess.
You can't come back to me again, so me being healthy works for
you either way.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah, and I'm just so glad that we had this chance to
catch up with you and find youin such a good place.
It's so wonderful and such agift.
So thank you, pinar.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Thank you, it's been a pleasure, as always.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Before we go, I want you to let people know where can
they find you and your creativeworks.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
So I'm on Amazon.
If they type my name andsurname, they can find my novels
and my nonfiction guides, and Irun a writing blog called
Addicted to Writing, and if theygo to writingpinartharhancom
they can find me.
Everything is there Newsletter,books, updates, posts.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Wonderful and, of course, they can find your essay
and your film on our website,and the film, of course, is on
our YouTube channel, and I'mjust so grateful to you.
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
Thank you again for joining us in conversation today
.
It's beautiful to see theprogression of our contributors.
It was so wonderful to spendsome time with Pinar Tarhan,
easily the coolest author inIstanbul, turkey.
If you want to find out moreabout Pinar, you can visit the
site writingpinarcom.
You can also find her romancenovels on amazoncom and her
(46:56):
essay and film on our website.
Thanks so much to Pinar fortaking some time with us today.
Before we leave you, we want toremind you to check out our
website, recoverydiariesorg.
There, like this podcast,you'll find additional stories,
videos and content about mentalhealth, empowerment and change.
(47:16):
We look forward to continuingto grow our community.
Thank you so much for being apart of it.
We wouldn't be here without you.
Be sure to join our mailinglist so you never miss a podcast
episode, essay or film.
I'm Gabe Nathan.
Until next time, take good care.
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