August 18, 2025 • 62 mins
From her earliest memories growing up in Pakistan—where her dream of pursuing music seemed impossible for a woman—to the hallowed halls of Harvard University where overwhelming expectations led to debilitating burnout, Dr. Shumaila Hemani reveals the institutional and cultural pressures that shaped her experience. The expectations of perfection, unrelenting pressure, and cold academic warnings left her feeling bereft of direction, support, and purpose.
The turning point came through an unexpected source: a piece of 16th-century Khayal tradition music discovered in Harvard's library. This musical sanctuary became her refuge, reconnecting her with spirituality when rational academic structures had failed her. "The line 'Aapne Allah Ko Pehchan' (recognize the Allah within you) resonated so deeply with me," she explains, "pushing me to make this important shift from the world of reason that had betrayed me to seek refuge in the world of faith."
After leaving Harvard—a decision carrying its own weight of shame—Dr. Hemani rebuilt her identity through studying with an ustad (master musician) and emerging as a Sufi performer and ethnomusicologist. This transformation led to founding the Deep Listening Path Initiative, which now helps others overcome burnout through music, meditation, and deep listening practices.
Throughout our conversation, Dr. Hemani reads her powerful Recovery Diaries essay "Music is Sanctuary: Navigating Burnout in the Ivy League with the Power of Deep Listening," and shares how publishing this piece inspired her forthcoming memoir "Writing in the Wound." Her story offers profound insights into resilience, cultural identity, and finding purpose through pain.
Listen now to discover how sometimes our most difficult experiences become the foundation for our greatest contributions—when we learn to listen deeply to what they have to teach us.
Conversations like the ones on this podcast can sometimes be hard, but they’re always necessary. If you or someone you know is struggling, please consider visiting wannatalkaboutit.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gabe Nathan (00:01):
Hello, this is Recovery Diaries In-Depth.
I'm your host, gabe Nathan.
Thanks so much for joining us.
We're very happy to have youhere.
We are so happy to have onRecovery Diaries In-Depth
Shumaila Hemani, phd.
She is a multi-award winningartist in residence and creative
climate advocate, and she leadsthe Deep Listening Path
(00:22):
Initiative, which aids advocatesin overcoming burnout.
Each week, we'll bring you aRecovery Diaries contributor
folks who have shared theirmental health journey with us
through essay or video format.
We want to see where they arein their mental health journey
since initially being publishedon our website.
Our goal is to continuesupporting our diverse community
by having conversations here onour podcast to follow up and
(00:45):
see what has shifted, what haschanged and what new things have
emerged.
We're so happy to have youalong for this journey.
We want to remind you to followour show for new and back
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(01:07):
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(01:29):
Shumaila Hemani.
Welcome to Recovery Diaries InDepth.
It is so lovely to have youhere.
Thank you for being here withus.
Shumaila Hemani (01:36):
Such a pleasure to be here.
Gabe, Thank you for having me.
Gabe Nathan (01:39):
You are so welcome and I'm curious.
Everybody has these kind oflike.
They call it the elevator pitchfor whatever it is for.
If it's their job, you knowthey have like the 30 seconds to
describe what they do.
But I think people also havelike elevator pitches for who
(02:00):
they are.
What's your elevator pitch?
Who are you?
Shumaila Hemani (02:05):
I'm an artist, scholar and a trauma-informed
coach.
I work on issues related withmental health, climate, justice
and cultural heritage to bringforth more justice in the world.
Gabe Nathan (02:20):
That is an elevator pitch if I've ever heard one,
and such a beautifully shapedand hopeful and helpful elevator
pitch.
So I just want to thank you forthe work that you do with
people.
It's pretty extraordinary.
You wrote an essay for us.
Do you remember when it was Do?
Shumaila Hemani (02:43):
you remember when it was?
It was published last year, Ithink.
We started the poll process inFebruary last year and then the
essay got published in June orJuly.
Gabe Nathan (02:53):
Yeah, so it's been about a year since the essay was
published and the piece it'sabout a lot of different things.
It is about music.
It is about a lot of differentthings.
It is about music.
It is about burnout.
It is about stress, academia,faith, resilience.
(03:14):
Can you talk a little bit aboutwho you were when you were
originally composing that piece,what was going on in your life,
and can you talk about thedecision that you made to send
it to us?
Shumaila Hemani (03:30):
I had recently founded my social enterprise,
the Deep Listening Path, inJanuary of 2024.
And I was giving and sharing mycourse with potential people
out there who had experiencedburnout, and I was sharing my
Harvard story in my masterclassin a few sentences, and that
(03:54):
started spurring somethinginside me because there was
something.
There was so much more that wasleft unsaid.
That masterclass was about theburnout, not the Harvard
experience, but I was justbringing in the Harvard
experience and something insideme was wanting to share this
part of me that I had kepthidden for long, because I used
(04:20):
to feel ashamed of my burnout,because I did not know back then
, back in 2010 and throughout mygraduate years, that this is
what was going on in my body.
I just felt like my body isbetraying me and I had to cancel
appointments and just say I'mnot well, I'm not well, and
(04:42):
people just used to wonder whatthat means.
Even you know why does shealways say she's not well?
But I didn't know how.
I didn't have the vocabulary todescribe what I was going
through and once through thedeep listening path, I found
that I received that awarenessthat I was experiencing burnout.
All this time, I felt compelledto share my story, share what
(05:06):
I've been through, and theHarvard experience was
particularly, very importantbecause that's when a lot in my
body had accumulated and, youknow, it kind of impacted the
rest of my graduate journey overthe years, because the burnout
kept rising, because there was alot of buildup from the Harvard
(05:29):
experience and its aftermath.
So I really felt compelled toshare my story and share this
part of me that I haven't sharedwith the world, that I've been
experiencing burnout for over 10years, and that's why I reached
out to OC Diaries.
Gabe Nathan (05:47):
When you were in the midst of what was going on.
You call it the Harvardexperience, and, of course,
we're going to talk more aboutthat, and certainly talk about
it when you're going to bereading your very, very fine
essay on the subject.
But when you were experiencingthat, that in the midst of that,
did you tell yourself a story?
(06:10):
Um, I I think you know, assomeone who lives with anxiety
and depression myself and andhas a lot of like self image
issues and selfworth issues, Itell myself a lot of stories
about who I am and why I'm afuck-up and an idiot and
incompetent and all of that kindof thing.
(06:32):
And I'm wondering if you weretelling yourself stories about
well, you just can't hack it.
Other people can get throughthis, can get through this.
Uh, it's, you're the problem.
Um, you know you're, you'reweak, you're insufficient,
(06:53):
you're this, that or the otherthing when you were really
struggling there.
Um, I'm just curious about whatwas happening in your internal
monologue in in 2010, 2011.
Shumaila Hemani (07:00):
2011.
Yeah, I think I will have to goback to that time in 2010 to
2011.
So during that time, a lot wasgoing on and one of the things
that was that that is a storythat I was not only telling
(07:20):
myself, but I was also noticing,and that is a story that I
haven't brought up fully in thearticle but I'm bringing it up
in my upcoming memoir, writingin the Wound, because Harvard
experience and the burnout thatI experienced there was part of
a larger trauma that wasbuilding up and has built up
(07:41):
over the years.
And one of the other thingsthat was going on was I was
noticing a kind of an academicjealousy from the Harvard
professors towards the professorI had worked with during my
master's, professor Regula Buk,very who has, who has maintained
(08:04):
a very, very high, you know,status in the field of South
Asian ethnomusicology.
So I was, I was seen as herstudent.
Even the librarian, who is avery prominent author, virginia
Danielson, who's written areally amazing book on Uncle
Thum, used to see me and say, oh, there, she is regular student,
(08:24):
you know.
So regular student was myidentity marker and that did
used to make others a bitnervous and I think there was a
pressure on me to.
There was more pressure on methan on the other students just
for that reason, because therewere some academic jealousies
(08:45):
going on as well.
And I noticed the outcome of itbecause, despite experiencing
the burnout, I did leave Harvardin good standing and I was
eligible for a terminal master'sdegree.
But I did not receive that and,in fact, what happened was my
(09:07):
PhD project was plagiarized, mymethodologies, everything was
appropriated, and it's been 10years I've worked with a master
scholar and none of my work hasgotten published.
So this is something that haspanned out over the course of 15
years, right, but when I was atHarvard in 2010, I was picking
(09:29):
up on that.
I was intuitively picking upthat something was off here.
There is something more that'sgoing on.
It's just not Harvardstructurally and the work that
they expect me to do and all.
There was something morebeneath the surface that was
going on and I had picked up onit.
I was talking about it with myclose friends, but then, of
(09:51):
course, I was a graduate studentthen and it did sound like I
was making excuses, right,because when graduate students
pick up on so much informationand then say that they are
working against me or somethinglike that.
It just sounds so unconvincing,right so?
But I was picking up on a lotof things that were happening
beneath the surface that led tomy burnout.
Gabe Nathan (10:13):
And what kind of support did you receive then and
after the fact?
I mean, obviously you had yourclose friends, but I'm curious
about other people who hadsimilar experiences, not just at
Harvard, but perhaps at otheracademic institutions anywhere
(10:50):
in the world.
Shumaila Hemani (10:51):
Yeah, thanks, Thank you for bringing up those
questions, because it reallykind of brings forward some of
the trauma that I'm experiencingthat whenever I bring forward
my story, I encounter silencefrom my community.
I literally I encounter silence.
Nobody speaks up, nobodysupports, nobody reaches out,
(11:13):
and I know that there is awhisper network behind my back,
something that I brought forwardin my recent essay Listening to
the Wound because I've beennoticing this whisper networks
going on for years and so, whenthis article came out, the
biggest thing that I wasexperiencing was on the OC
(11:34):
diaries and their socials.
I didn't experience much on mysocials.
Nobody reached out to me,everybody was silent, and that
also speaks to the fact thatwhen I was going through the
Harvard experience, some of myearlier friends who had doing
being passive, aggressivetowards me.
I think what was most helpfulduring the period that I was in
(12:10):
was in the spring of 2010,.
Some people I was living in theConant Hall dormitory dormitory
and I mentioned that I'll beleaving because of what was
going on to some of my flatmatesyou know, roommates or whatever
the floor mates and they saidthat, no, this is not right, you
(12:35):
were not well and you shouldn'tbe leaving because of that.
And they said OK, you know,we're going to fight for you.
So the floor mates cametogether and one of my floor
mates who was from China, hesaid I will come with you to the
dean's office and we'll talkand if this doesn't work, all of
us will come go together.
So I went with him.
(12:56):
His name is Lee.
I went with Lee to the dean'soffice and he mentioned he kind
of advocated for me.
He said that you know we liveon the same floor, she and he
mentioned, he kind of advocatedfor me.
He said that you know we liveon the same floor.
She was not well.
I could see she was not welland she has books all over her
room Like she's so studious,she's so hardworking you can't
do this to her.
So I think that that did help.
And the dean of graduate studies, garth McEwen.
(13:20):
He suggested a number of things.
He said I will advocate for you, but you also have to go
through these.
You know things that you haveto speak with a graduate
counselor to learn, to go deeperinto your situation, to see how
you can make amends.
We also recommend you go to apsychological counselor.
(13:40):
So I was taking psychologicalcounseling in addition to
graduate counseling and duringthe summer of 2010.
And so that was a support thatI received at Harvard and there
was a time when I even went toombudsman.
But there's not much that you,that those resources could do in
(14:04):
terms of I mean, there's onlyso much that they can help you
and I have to say they were very, very, very helpful, but that
couldn't prevent me from leavingHarvard after December 2011.
Gabe Nathan (14:26):
11th.
That's wonderful that you'reable to receive that support
from your floor mates.
That's very special and I'mvery glad that that was there
for you.
I mean, it wasn't enough, butit was something.
I'm curious.
Let's go back.
I want to go back to your earlylife, because music has been so
(14:47):
vitally important in yourentire existence.
I just want to know how thatgot started.
Shumaila Hemani (14:56):
Yeah, I think for me, I sort of originate my
music journey in this way, tothe time when I was 15 or 16 and
I was looking at undergraduateprograms that I would like or
things I would like to major inand it just came to me that I
want to pursue music becauseit's had such a special place in
(15:17):
my life.
At that time I wasn't trainedin western art music, I didn't
play a musical instrument, sothat was like a bizarre kind of
a dream that I had when I wasgrowing up in Karachi in
Pakistan, and I voiced thatdream to my mother and my
grandma and they're like shh, nomusic no way I can imagine.
Gabe Nathan (15:39):
Yeah.
Shumaila Hemani (15:40):
Because music is kind of associated with
showbiz and performing arts.
Historically, there areprofessional communities
associated with it, so there isa bit of a stigma there as well.
So my grandma was like no, no,no, like that.
But somehow all throughout myundergraduate I felt that there
(16:03):
was a calling.
I felt called to do that.
It sounds very idealistic whenI say but my heart said that
this is my path, and it was hardto believe because my 3D
reality said otherwise and I hadno idea how this could ever,
ever, ever happen that I wouldland in a music department.
(16:24):
It just seemed out of reach.
But I went through.
During the last parts of myundergraduate I came across the
program in Islamic Studies andHumanities.
I applied for that and theywere very encouraging for me to
pursue ethnomusicology and theyfunded my work and they
supported me.
(16:44):
So during my time in London Iwas taking courses in voice and
in keyboard skills and all, andso that was all a prep that
helped me to get into a musicprogram at the University of
Alberta where I did my master's,and from there I applied to
Harvard and Chicago and UCLA.
So 2010 was a great time.
(17:05):
I received admissions in allthe universities and in fact
Chicago and Harvard werefighting to have me.
So it was like a very, you know, encouraging time for me that a
bizarre dream could lead me atthis point, you know.
Gabe Nathan (17:22):
It's fascinating because, you know, I had this
thought in my head that you know, I was going to be asking you
about the beginning of your lovefor music and I was just
imagining like, oh well, I first, you know, touched the
harmonium at age four and I justI knew it's so fascinating that
it's really begins at 15 or 16.
(17:45):
I had thought, okay, therewould be this youthful history
and this progression leading upto this, but it's quite a
journey and I just you think of15 or 16 as really almost like a
late bloomer, but you seemed toreally be on fire at that age
(18:08):
and that it was just sending youon this path.
And I wonder, when you lookback now and you think about
Chicago and Harvard kind offighting for you, do you think
about what would have happenedif you had let Chicago win and
(18:31):
you had gone there?
Do you play that game in yourmind?
Shumaila Hemani (18:36):
Yeah, I played that game all throughout the
time after I left Harvard,because I did apply to Chicago
again and University of Alberta.
So these were two schools thatI applied to again in 2012.
And I didn't get into Chicagothe second time.
And I still remember that pointwhen I received my rejection
(19:01):
letter, because at that time Iwas taking lessons from my ustad
and he noticed that I was likemy energy had gone totally low
and I was very, very sad.
And so this game, I mean I wasplaying that even till my second
or third year of graduate studyat the University of Alberta.
I was I would blame myself, Ishould have gone to Chicago.
(19:23):
I should have gone to Chicago.
So I had that quite a bit tillsecond or third year.
But I think there was just youknow when that game gets played,
when life is going smooth, Ithink, because what happened
next was so dramatic.
(19:43):
There was just so many dramaticchanges happening in the
department and things happeningthat was throwing me off course
that whatever I had, I had tolearn to protect.
You know, I still was in a PhDprogram at the University of
Alberta.
I was studying with Regula.
That was amazing, right?
(20:03):
So I think life has a way ofshowing you to be more grateful
towards what you have, and overthe years.
you know, when I learned thatregular student Kaylee left
Chicago to go to anotheruniversity, then that was my
moment where I was like, oh mygosh, if I was at Chicago and I
(20:25):
wouldn't have finished my PhD bythat time and he would have
left, it would have been such anightmare, you know, finishing
my PhD in a department when Ilose my supervisory support.
And then there were otherthings that happened where I
realized that the people whowere showing me a lot of support
then were only showing mesupport because I had gotten
(20:48):
into Harvard and they didn'twant me to go there.
So I was picking up on that aswell, that Chicago was showing
me so much, that as well, thatChicago was showing me so much.
You know, they I mean they hadgiven me a package, but it was
not a full package.
I couldn't have come there inthe first place.
But then they had specialmeetings for me and they got me
(21:08):
a competitive package in, youknow, in comparison with Harvard
.
But I really felt like theywere doing it because I had
gotten into Harvard, not becausethey valued me.
So that was something I pickedon, even in 2010.
And I think I picked on evenlater.
I, just I.
I, I had my reasons for notchoosing Chicago.
Sure and um, although I, thegame continued in my mind.
(21:34):
I also think I made the rightdecision then by going to
Harvard and then by choosing theUniversity of Alberta.
Gabe Nathan (21:44):
And the game can go on forever and drive you crazy,
and so I think it's soimportant, like you said, to not
wallow in what's past but begrateful for what's present and
all of the doors and windowsthat opened because of past
decisions.
(22:05):
It's a really healthy outlook.
Can you talk a little bit aboutburnout in the context of
academia and the feelings thatgo along with it and the
repercussions because we hearabout it, I think, the most in
(22:26):
terms of first responderprofessions, in terms of nurses
or law enforcement or any ofthose fields, and I think and
you alluded to this earlier toothat there really is a stigma
that if you're experiencing this, it's because you can't cut it.
And that's a paramedicinstructor who talks about that
(22:49):
really archaic belief, even inemergency medicine, that if
you're struggling it's becausethis isn't for you.
(23:10):
And what he says is we need tochange that culture and the
attitudes of leadership that youknow if someone's struggling,
it's most likely forinstitutional reasons and there
need to be changes addressedthere to help people, not just
(23:30):
cut them out and get rid of them.
So I'd love to hear you speakto that a little bit.
Shumaila Hemani (23:35):
I think I would like to speak about burnout
from the perspective of aninternational student.
So, an international student,when they have to, you know,
when they come in anotherculture, it's not only
institutional culture, it'sculture of the country, city
that they are in and they'reaway from home there's a lot of
(23:58):
pressure.
There's a lot of pressure toperform and because the, I would
say, epistemologically, theknowledge creation and you know
it kind of differs from thecontext that they come from,
there is a pressure to alsoconform to, you know, the trends
(24:23):
or the hidden rules of thespace that they are in.
In my case, in addition to allof that which international
students experience ininternational universities.
I was coming from a non-Westernart music background and I was
(24:47):
thrown into a culture of musicdepartments that predominantly
are Western art music focused.
So ethnomusicologists have sortof resisted that culture by
bringing in other world musictraditions and you know, giving
space for that.
But within the world musictraditions I wasn't coming from.
(25:08):
At that time when I was atHarvard, I didn't have years of
training in Hindustani art music.
I didn't have that access.
So I didn't have the access tothe world music traditions.
Either I was coming from a veryfolk, folklorized or, you know,
local music that I had learnedfrom religious music from my own
(25:31):
community and I had a lot ofunderstanding and, you know,
passion to work to do this.
And this is something that oneof the professor who advocated
for my admissions he picked upon that we had met at Society
for Ethnomusicology meeting andhe saw the how driven I was
because this was my calling,this was my path.
(25:53):
So I was even more driven towork harder because there was
this thing in me that I'm notenough.
You know, I don't have this, Idon't have that, I don't have
that, but I have critical acumenand I need to merge this with
this and this and this and Ineed to keep working.
So there was that institutionalpressure and cultural pressure.
(26:16):
But in addition to all of that,that was that internal pressure
as well that I wanted tosucceed because this was my path
and I could not do with less.
You know, I had to be more allthe time.
Even when I was writing mymaster's thesis I had done some
really original and amazing work.
(26:37):
But there was this pressure toconform in the sense that my
mentor, regula, she said you'vedone amazing work.
But then there were peers likemy male friends in Pakistan or
my male friends in the other inthe ethnomusicology program,
(26:58):
other in the ethnomusicologyprogram, and as a woman, they
would trust my authority forwhat to say anything to
represent South Asian culture.
So I was pleasing too manypeople as well.
I was not just happy with mysupervisor saying you've done
amazing work.
I had to please so and so, soand so, so and so, and I know
(27:19):
that I wasn't able to pleasethem at the end of the day, but
I worked so hard that I knewwhere I was at.
I had really crossed a thresholdwhen I defended my master's
thesis and so that authority,that confidence, I mean I built
it deep down.
So you know, and that also kindof led to my burnout because I
(27:43):
was pushing myself in ways thatnobody else in my program was
doing it.
I mean I did four to fivemonths of fieldwork when we were
only supposed to do one monthof fieldwork during our master's
and that did impact my healthwhen I came back to Edmonton.
So that's where it all started,because there was this internal
(28:05):
, there was that sense of notbeing enough, but there was also
that sense of insatiability.
You know, I was so driven Iwanted to do everything, and
really well.
So I think they bothcontributed.
Gabe Nathan (28:22):
We have received and published multiple essays by
individuals from India, fromPakistan, from other countries
(28:45):
in Asia that have talked aboutacademic pressures and pressures
from parents from very early onpressures about grades,
pressures about performance,pressures about achievement and
about how the worth or value ofthe parents or the family is
really dependent upon how wellthe children do in life and by
(29:12):
how well they do, and that canbe anything from academic
performance to jobs and thingslike that.
Did you feel any of thatgrowing up?
Was that part of yourexperience?
Shumaila Hemani (29:25):
I think growing up I actually felt that most of
the attention was towards mybrothers, that my family's worth
really came from how my brotherwas doing.
So he was the he was.
When I was a kid I was, I wasvery laid back as a student.
I was a, you know, adventurouskind of a kid.
(29:47):
I didn't really care aboutstudying.
I had all these bizarre dreamsI'm going to travel the world
and all of that.
And then I noticed that mybrother was getting so much
praise and attention and so muchlove because he was standing
first in the class.
Like there was so muchhappiness my parents felt when
he he, you know he stood first,like there were garlands that
(30:10):
were brought for him and Ididn't receive any standing at
that point and that I think itwas in grade two that I told
myself I have to work hard.
I can't let me be just thisnobody who doesn't get you know
any, who doesn't get any ranksin class.
(30:30):
So it was from grade two that Istarted really working hard on
myself and really focusing on mystudies.
But what I have noticed overthe years is that even when I
have stood first in class, I'vealmost consistently stood second
.
But even when I've stood firstin class, there hasn't been much
happiness or joy or a sense ofachievement that my parents have
(30:56):
felt from my side.
It just doesn't matter for themwhether I've come first or
second or not come.
You know, that hasn't reallyhelped and it used to bother me.
It sometimes still bothers me.
But I think it also gave me akind of freedom that most South
Asian students do not getotherwise, that most South Asian
(31:21):
students do not get otherwise.
But I find also that patternkind of is repeating within my
network or community now thatwhatever I do I publish this
essay or I publish somethingelse or I give a talk or give a
keynote just nothing matters.
Nothing matters.
And it's a childhood patternthat's just coming in my adult
(31:43):
life.
Someday I'll write about it.
Gabe Nathan (31:46):
And in the end, really, I mean, this may sound
naive, but it just has to matterto you really, and kind of fuck
everybody else If they don'tcare or it doesn't resonate with
them or it doesn't feel like akind of salient achievement,
that's kind of their problemReally, it really does just have
(32:10):
to matter to you.
You can hang your own garlandsfor yourself.
So and I, I, I think this is ait's a nice way to move into
your essay, because youmentioned earlier that you know
when this was published it wasit was really silence for you in
terms of the response ofwriters and contributors and
(32:44):
readers here, because I thinkthat this is something that's
not talked about enough, and oneof the things I love about what
we do is we try to gainperspectives from people all
over the world and talk aboutthings that aren't talked about
enough.
So at this point, I would loveto hear you read your essay in
your own voice.
It's called Music is SanctuaryNavigating Burnout in the Ivy
(33:09):
League with the Power of DeepListening Whenever you're ready.
Shumaila Hemani (33:15):
Music was my refuge.
I could crawl into the spacebetween the notes and crawl my
back to loneliness, writes MayaAngelou.
Music has been a powerfulrefuge and a calling for me
since my teenage years.
Initially, I resisted its pull,aware that women within my
culture were not typicallyencouraged to pursue it as a
(33:38):
career.
Despite the barriers anduncertainties that loomed before
me, I couldn't ignore theundeniable truth this was what I
wanted to do.
The path ahead was unclear.
Little did I anticipate that itwould eventually lead me to the
University of Alberta and thento Harvard University, to
(34:07):
Harvard University.
Harvard University's mottoVeritas, meaning truth embodies
the pursuit of knowledge andintegrity.
Yet during my PhD studentshipat Harvard, from fall 2010 to
December 2011, layers ofdeception veiled the truth and I
felt like I had lost my way.
Beneath the surface lies adeeper truth Harvard mistreats
individuals who challenge thestatus quo.
(34:28):
My experience prompts me toexpose the institution's efforts
to manipulate and erasedissenting voices.
Another motto nothing isimpossible echoed through the
halls of Harvard, a mantra meantto inspire resilience and
determination.
Yet as I embarked on my PhDjourney in music, those words
(34:50):
felt more like a dismissiverefrain whenever I dared to
question the overwhelmingworkload in my first semester
Studying at the University ofAlberta between 2008 to 2010 was
a life-transforming experiencebecause, under the mentorship of
the distinguished South AsianStudies scholar, professor
(35:10):
Regula Bukhad Kureishi, Iembarked on a journey to study
the history of state patronageof music and dance in Pakistan,
culminating in my master'sthesis and, eventually, my
doctoral dissertation on Sufipoetry and sounds in Sindh.
During this time, I foundmyself reconnecting with the
musical cultures of Pakistan.
(35:31):
So when I started at Harvard, Iwas excited to begin what I
thought would be a similarlymotivating journey.
Although my studies at Harvardonly lasted a year and a half,
they initially opened vistasinto new cultures.
My arrival in Cambridgeintroduced me to a vibrant
community of scholars fromdiverse disciplines, each
(35:53):
boasting remarkable achievementsand intellectual prowess.
Conversations in the graduatedormitory reverberated with
tales of astronauts, fictionwriters, zoologists and artists,
igniting a mixture of awe andintimidation within me.
During my first year, thisexcited the explorer in me.
(36:14):
Every conversation opened newdoors.
I experienced many newfriendships, but there were
times I also felt emotionallyisolated.
In those days at Harvard, therewas a great emphasis played on
new students not feeling likeimposters in the Ivy League
community.
With an emphasis on equity,harvard did attract students
(36:37):
from diverse backgrounds anddespite the impressive
atmosphere, I never felt like animposter.
My supportive classmates helpedprovide a solid foundation to
navigate the intellectuallystimulating yet sometimes
overwhelming environment.
In my courses, my ideas andcritical thoughts stood out and
I felt appreciated forparticipating in class
(36:59):
discussions.
But as my graduate studiescontinued, my academic plate
overflowed with a staggeringworkload counteracting the
invigorating collaborativeatmosphere I felt at the start
of my studies.
Balancing multiple graduatemusic courses and a language
class proved daunting enough.
(37:19):
The true test of endurance,however, came with the
unexpected addition of anundergraduate music theory
course.
Even more, I was tasked withlearning a musical instrument
from a culture new to me, thatwas the Persian culture,
fieldwork in another culture,which was Ethiopian culture, as
well as independent study ofcultural and religious
(37:39):
traditions from outside my ownbackground.
It began to feel overwhelming.
While I embraced learning thesethings as great cultural
exposure, the expectation toimmediately excel felt
impossible.
After classes finished, eachday I retreated to the practice
rooms to study cadences and workon homework.
(38:02):
In my first semester, downtimewas non-existent.
It was a continuous cycle ofacademic and personal demands,
making it difficult for me toabsorb the experience of being
at Harvard.
At first there was a flicker ofdoubt regarding whether this
demanding workload was indeednormal within the academic
context.
I couldn't shake off thenagging feeling that perhaps I
(38:23):
was pushing myself too hard.
There were moments of quietapprehension where I questioned
the feasibility of maintainingsuch a rigorous base while
excelling academically.
Amidst the socially vibrantambience of Harvard's Dudley
Lounge and coffee gatheringswith peers, my formidable course
load became a topic ofincredulityley Lounge and coffee
(38:43):
gatherings with peers.
My formidable course loadbecame a topic of incredulity.
Even classmates and professorswhom I saw as the brightest mind
on campus expressedastonishment, questioning the
sustainability of such aworkload and its impact on
academic performance.
Isn't it affecting your grades?
This question served as aconstant reminder of the
delicate balance betweenacademic ambition and personal
(39:05):
well-being.
Initially, I reacted with ablend of surprise and
introspection.
I found myself oscillatingbetween a sense of normalization
and a creeping feeling ofanxiety.
There were graduate students atHarvard who had opted to take
seven courses in a semester bytheir own choice, but then they
were receiving extra time tocomplete their assignments and
(39:28):
turn in their final papers.
I did not receive anyaccommodations, even upon
request.
While I voiced my concernsabout the unrealistic demands to
my mentors, the prevailingsentiment echoed the
institutional's ethos Nothing isimpossible.
At Harvard, the unrealisticworkload and expectations did
(39:50):
impact my performance and grades, and, while I was an A-plus
student at the University ofAlberta, at Harvard, I received
grades that I felt did notadequately evaluate my caliber.
At the end of the semester,while I was exhausted and trying
to recuperate, I received anunexpected letter which was
unlike what I have everencountered before.
It was a disciplinary warningand an ultimatum to improve
(40:15):
performance or leave.
It felt more like a gun on myhead and seriously impacted my
mental health and wellness.
From there onwards, I was notonly working with a heavy
workload, but also withdifficult emotions around the
threat of being removed.
This zapped my energysignificantly.
(40:36):
It is incredibly traumatic tograpple with the letters of
warning that Harvard sends tostudents.
These missives, often ladenwith implications of
underperformance or poor fitwithin the institution, can have
profound psychological andemotional effects.
They serve as falseconstructions of one's perceived
(40:57):
shortcomings, fueling self-dand amplifying the already
existing pressure to succeed inan environment renowned for its
academic rigor.
Overcoming the weight of thesewarnings requires resilience,
support and a steadfast beliefin one's abilities amidst
adversity.
(41:18):
I spent the Christmas break of2010 grappling with the
consequences of the latter andfound the courage inside me to
begin another semester atHarvard In the spring of 2011,.
After I'd returned to school, Ifound myself experiencing
extreme exhaustion.
Prior to this, I had neverencountered burnout.
(41:38):
My mind, once ablaze withscholarly fervor, now lay
dormant, unable to muster thestrength for even the simplest
of tasks.
The demands of my schedule wererelentless Waking up at 7 am to
attend Persian language classesat 8.30, followed by a music
theory class, a graduate seminarand instrument class.
In addition, there weregraduate students talks and
(42:02):
guest lectures to attend in thedepartment.
I attempted to adjust myschedule to prioritize rest, but
any social event I missedresulted in repercussions.
This was often interpreted as alack of interest in the program
, further complicating myefforts to prioritize self-care.
My efforts to prioritizeself-care when I sought help
(42:23):
from a doctor at the medicalclinic.
Their positivistic standpointtowards well-being minimized my
experience, leaving me feelinginvalidated.
Doubt gnawed at my resolve.
Was I fabricating illness toevade the rigors of academia?
Burnout experts Emily andAmelia Nagoski astutely liken
(42:44):
burnout to a wound, emphasizingthe lengthy recovery process
akin to healing from a brokenbone or severe infection.
Back in 2010, harvardselectively avoided the issue of
student burnout and consideredthose who could not handle the
workload as unfit for theinstitution.
In April 2011, I faced apivotal moment at Harvard.
(43:06):
A second letter arrivedsignaling my departure from the
institution.
It was a tumultuous crossroads.
I still remember that it wasaround my birthday and I found
myself grappling with what myfuture would become,
contemplating my future.
Doubts crept in, urging me toabandon my musical aspirations.
Standing before a full-lengthmirror, I whispered words of
(43:30):
encouragement Shmila, you'rebrilliant, you can achieve
anything.
With those words, I made thedifficult choice to set aside my
pursuit of music and to leaveHarvard.
But little did I know that Iwas revving up for a spiritual
awakening.
As I strolled through thehistoric Harvard yard that day,
heading towards Dudley Lounge tomeet my friends towards the end
(43:52):
of my last semester, a suddenstirring within me ignited.
I realized the pressure ofHarvard was not the only avenue
to pursue my dream of Harvardwas not the only avenue to
pursue my dream.
My heart whispered vows.
I will not relent in my pursuitof my calling.
I will stand firm in my resolve.
I will embark on the journey toresume my PhD somewhere else
(44:14):
and, should the opportunityarise, I will seek mentorship in
the realm of Hindustani artmusic to refine my musical craft
.
I had arrived at HarvardUniversity identifying as an
atheist, convinced of theabsence of divine intervention
in the affairs of humanity.
Little did I anticipate that,within the ivy-covered walls of
(44:36):
this esteemed institution, Iwould encounter betrayal and
disillusionment that wouldshatter my preconceived notions
and lead me on a profoundjourney of rediscovering faith.
In the depths of despair, Ifound myself adrift in a sea of
uncertainty, grappling withexistential questions that
eluded easy answers.
(44:56):
It was amidst this existentialcrisis that I stumbled upon a
piece of music from the 16thcentury Khayal tradition at
Harvard's Lamont Library.
The composition was acontemporary piece sung by Ustad
Fateh Ali Khan from Pakistan'sPatiala Gharana and Indraag
Biragi Bheru.
When I played this piece, Ifound that an inner sanctuary
(45:19):
enveloped me, shielding me fromthe vulnerabilities that
surrounded me.
Amid the chaos, this musicalpiece became a refuge, a source
of strength and clarity amidstthe uncertainties of life.
The line Aapne Allah Ko Pehchanrecognize the Allah within you
from this piece resonated sodeeply with me, even as I write
(45:40):
about it, sending goosebumpsdown my body.
This spiritual message touchedsomething really profound within
me, pushing me to make thisimportant shift from the world
of reason that had betrayed meto seek a refuge in the world of
faith.
As I pushed through my lastsemester, sympathy from
professors remained elusive.
(46:01):
In the face of adversity, myold advisor, regula, stood by my
side, defending my reputation.
I felt blessed to have adistinguished mentor by my side
who also believed in my highcapabilities and was willing to
see me through as a scholarfinding her place in the
academic world.
Buoyed by Regula's unwaveringbelief, I pressed onward,
(46:23):
navigating the treacherouswaters of academia with courage
and resilience.
I concluded the fall of 2011semester with original research
in Chinese opera during theEnlightenment period for a
Harvard exhibition, acontribution I felt was
overlooked yet significant.
Leaving Harvard carried its ownweight of shame.
(46:43):
Without language to articulatemy burnout, I endured the
judgment of former colleagueswho saw my departure from an Ivy
League institution as a failureTo shelter myself from
negativity.
I made the difficult decisionto cut these individuals out of
my life entirely.
Yet, amidst this turmoil, theuniversity unveiled a new path
(47:05):
my dream of learning music froman ustad, a master musician and
teacher of the esteemed GwaliorKhurana, one of South Asia's
oldest musical lineages.
Guided by this ustad andsupported by mentors at the
University of Alberta, Idiscovered a new career identity
, one that I've nurtured throughgraduate and postgraduate years
in Canada.
(47:25):
I became a Sufi performer andreached new heights as I gave my
inaugural performance at theCanadian Centre of
Ethnomusicology in 2012.
At the University of Alberta, Ireceived a scholarship to study
music with Yustad, and I wentto Pakistan again in 2014 to
study with Yustad, and I went toPakistan again in 2014 to study
(47:46):
.
Three years later, I had thehonor of participating in three
performances at the Banff ArtsCenter of Creativity as part of
the World Music Residency.
Later, I received the CulturalDiversity Award that supported
the creation of my debut album,manat, which addressed climate
justice in the Global South withsung Sufi poetry of the 18th
century Sufi mystic, shah AbdulLatif Bita'i.
At the University of Alberta, Ialso served as a music faculty
(48:09):
in 2016 and for the semester atsea in 2020, during which I
traveled across America, asiaand Africa teaching
ethnomusicology courses.
My scholarly and artistictrajectory culminated in
teaching courses inethnomusicology in the music
department, as well as mypresent artist residency at
(48:29):
Mount Royal University as anartist changemaker.
Along this journey, I've learnedthat when one is experiencing
burnout, there is a high leaningtowards self-doubt and
diminishing one's own self-worth.
The key to breaking past.
This lies in taking your powerback and holding integrity in
the face of burnout.
By befriending burnout andaccepting its presence, we're
(48:53):
able to see the systemic factorsthat causes it and address them
adequately.
My experience inspired me tocreate the Deep Listening Path,
a music sanctuary course, andthe Resurgence Path, a music
sanctuary course and theResurgence Program, which
support changemakers to breakfree from advocacy burnout with
practices like deep listening,music and meditation.
Harvard's facade of academicexcellence often conceals its
(49:17):
oppressive tendencies, promptingme to speak out against the
injustices I experienced,prompting me to speak out
against the injustices Iexperienced Even after I had
left the institution.
I have experienced Harvard tocontinue unleashing its wild
hounds.
As we strive to uphold truthand accountability, it's
imperative to confront theinstitutional barriers that
stifle genuine discourse andperpetuate inequality.
(49:39):
Only through acknowledgementand action can we hope to
cultivate an environment thatembraces diversity, equity and
inclusion within academia andbeyond.
Harvard ultimately taught me todevelop resilience in
environments where I may be theonly person of color.
Even today, when I encountersituations where I feel rejected
as a member of anunderrepresented group, memories
(50:02):
of my experience at Harvardresurface.
I use those experiences asarmor to navigate and overcome
challenging situations and pushthrough, finding ways to
preserve myself and break innerglass ceilings, unleashing new
pathways to build safe spacesfor dialogue and creativity.
There is a famous quoteattributed to Rumi as you start
(50:25):
to walk on the path, the wayappears, and with my new
endeavors connecting music toburnout recovery, it feels as if
my journey as a compassionatewarrior for social justice has
only started.
Thank you, Thank you.
Gabe Nathan (50:40):
Thank you for writing that and thank you for
reading that and for sharingthat with our community.
Shumaila Hemani (50:46):
My pleasure.
Gabe Nathan (50:48):
So you're about a year out from publication.
How does it feel returning tothat piece?
What's coming up for you?
As you looked at it again, asI'm sure you did in preparation
for this interview and readingit aloud, what were you feeling?
Shumaila Hemani (51:10):
I must share here, gabe, that for the past
one and a half month I have beenvery rigorously writing my
memoir, which is upcomingWriting in the Woon, and that
memoir has been inspired by thisessay that I wrote, because the
process that I went through inwriting this essay and then
(51:31):
going through the editorialprocesses with Ethan and he
helped me to go to places in mymemory that I had really pushed
really down and I went in thoseplaces and I wrote about it.
So even at that time last March,april, when I was in that
(51:55):
editorial process, it just kindof cracked open something in me
because I had suppressed some ofthese memories really really
deep, deep down.
And so my memoir kind of opensup these wounds and memories
(52:17):
even deeper.
So I find that what I amfeeling is wow, I made it
through this essay, like I didit, I wrote it, I was able to
access these parts and that hasbecome, I find, like that was my
stepping stone for writing thismemoir, because it gave me a
(52:41):
lot of courage to go intodifficult places in my memory.
I don't know if I've answeredyour question, but that's what's
happened to my mind right nowmemory.
I don't know if I've answeredyour question, but that's what's
coming to my mind right now.
Gabe Nathan (52:53):
It's really lovely to hear that and to know that
the one is inspiring the other.
And I think that as we getolder we do push a lot down and
we push a lot of what is painfulto feel and to revisit.
We kind of put it in a draweror a closet and lock it away.
(53:16):
And I think revisiting thosethings, even while it can
sometimes be painful and hard,it can ultimately be really
cathartic and helpful and youknow, as was the case with you,
spur a whole new creativeenterprise.
(53:37):
So that's really wonderful tohear.
I'm glad that that was yourexperience.
What would have helped you stayat Harvard?
Do you think what could havebeen different that would have
helped?
Shumaila Hemani (53:55):
I think I had reached a point by fall 2011,.
I had reached a point where Itried everything, everything
possible, to stay, because Ididn't know what lay beyond
leaving Harvard.
Didn't know what lay beyondleaving Harvard, so the gut was
like just stay, you know,because that felt safe, safer
(54:23):
than what lied ahead.
So I had really triedeverything and some of my
friends there it's interestingthat they consulted wise women
for me and they told me thatdon't worry, your path ahead is
much more amazing than what youhave experienced here and to
them.
When I used to hear that, Ididn't used to feel very
(54:47):
convinced because I was latchingon to the safety of the present
, but that proved to be true.
Gabe Nathan (54:57):
I mean not what more could you have done.
I mean what more could they havedone as an institution?
So like, for instance, I'mthinking about a guest that we
had on our show, one of ourearly guests.
His name is Peter Lehman andhe's a professor in Utah, and
they had a suicide on campus andhe did not know the student,
(55:20):
but he was profoundly impactedby her loss and he is someone
who has lived with depressionand with suicidal ideation as
well depression and withsuicidal ideation as well and he
decided to make a change in hisclassroom and decided to begin
every semester by talking to hisclass about his personal mental
(55:42):
health and about his struggleswith depression and to say if
you need something, if you needsomething, if you have special
needs, if you are struggling,come to me.
I want to know, and I want youto know that you are being
(56:07):
taught by someone who is alsostruggling and that I'm not
always okay.
So I think that that's anexample of someone in the
academic world who really getsthe need for empathy, who gets
the need for being real andputting some things ahead of
(56:27):
academic rigor.
So that's really what I'masking you what could have been
done on the institutional side.
To keep you there.
Shumaila Hemani (56:38):
So there's a lot that I can say there, I
think what's important to bearin mind and again I'm going to
reassert that, even though I wasexperiencing severe burnout in
the spring of 2011, I pushedthrough, gabe.
I pushed through, I submittedmy work.
(56:59):
But the professor who gave me aC she gave me just a C because
I had missed a few classes andshe took it out on my paper.
My paper did not deserve a C mygrade in that course did not
deserve a C minus.
I had done my presentation, Ihad done my critical review, I
had finished all the work andthey couldn't value that.
(57:21):
I think there was not just alevel of high level of injustice
there.
If there was, it's a level ofcruelty.
I would say that thoseprofessors showed to me and on
top of that, it was myethnomusicology professor who
gave me that grade.
All the other professors oncampus like the course that I
(57:43):
was taking in anthropology, thecourse I was taking in language,
they were very accommodating.
I received accommodations.
I was able to finish thosecourses.
I again would like to say I leftHarvard in good standing.
But my ethnomusicologyprofessors they did not give me
a terminal master's degree and Ileft without with just
(58:05):
questions.
People just used to ask mequestions about what did you do
there?
What happened, what did you dothere?
What happened, what did you dothere?
And because I didn't even havea degree, you know, a person
coming, a woman coming fromPakistan, pursuing music which
is so stigmatized and thenexperiencing burnout and then
going through, but doing all thework that's required.
(58:25):
There's some grace that youcould have given, and I'm not
even asking for grace here, I'mjust asking for justice.
There was none and in my, inthe fall of 2011, one of the
actually used some because Ididn't come from a Western art
music background.
They use that as an excusefurther to undermine me and it's
(58:48):
just.
It's just a level of academiccruelty that has continued,
because even after I leftHarvard, they took my PhD topic,
methodologies and a Harvardscholar has made a name in the
field based on my work.
And nobody, because Harvard hassuch a you know, a mafia-like
(59:10):
presence that you know you can'tsay anything against Harvard.
Even at Society forEthnomusicology, the plagiarized
work gets awards, gets crowned,while my work is made it to
feel like, oh, we're doing you abig favor by even letting you
in our circle.
You know that is the attitude,and none of my work has gotten
published.
(59:30):
So in terms of what could theyhave done better?
Oh my gosh, there is just somuch to say there.
I think they were brutallycruel.
These are very respectful namesin the discipline and I have to
say that they were very unjustand they continue to be very
unjust and very cruel towards me.
Gabe Nathan (59:49):
So I rest my case there and yet, in spite of that,
here you are not just survivingbut thriving and doing
extraordinary things for theworld and for human beings, and
we're just so, so grateful thatyou're doing that work and
pursuing that with brain andwith heart, and for being a part
(01:00:13):
of our community and having anew essay in the pipeline as
you're working on your memoir.
I'm very excited to be workingon that with you, and so I just
want to thank you for everythingthat you're doing and for
spending time with us.
Shumaila Hemani (01:00:30):
It was a real pleasure to be here and I really
appreciate the space that youhave created and the work you're
doing.
It is so, so important.
Gabe Nathan (01:00:39):
Thank you.
Thank you, Sharmila, andwishing you all the best in
everything.
Shumaila Hemani (01:00:44):
Thank you for having me, Gabe.
Gabe Nathan (01:00:50):
Thank you again for joining us in conversation
today.
It's beautiful to see theprogression of our contributors.
Thank you again for joining usin conversation today.
It's beautiful to see theprogression of our contributors.
We are so, so grateful to DrShumaila Hamani.
She is the author of Music isSanctuary Navigating Burnout in
the Ivy League with the Power ofDeep Listening.
She is also the founder of theDeep Listening Path Initiative,
(01:01:12):
which aids advocates inovercoming burnout.
Before we leave you, we want toremind you to check out our
website, recoverydiariesorg.
There, like this podcast,you'll find additional stories,
videos and content about mentalhealth, empowerment and change.
We look forward to continuingto grow our community.
(01:01:33):
Thank you so much for being apart of it.
We wouldn't be here without you.
Be sure to join our mailinglist so you never miss a podcast
episode, essay or film.
I'm Gabe Nathan.
Until next time, take good care.
Thank you.
Hello, this is Recovery Diaries In-Depth.
I'm your host, gabe Nathan.
Thanks so much for joining us.
We're very happy to have youhere.
We are so happy to have onRecovery Diaries In-Depth
Shumaila Hemani, phd.
She is a multi-award winningartist in residence and creative
climate advocate, and she leadsthe Deep Listening Path
(00:22):
Initiative, which aids advocatesin overcoming burnout.
Each week, we'll bring you aRecovery Diaries contributor
folks who have shared theirmental health journey with us
through essay or video format.
We want to see where they arein their mental health journey
since initially being publishedon our website.
Our goal is to continuesupporting our diverse community
by having conversations here onour podcast to follow up and
(00:45):
see what has shifted, what haschanged and what new things have
emerged.
We're so happy to have youalong for this journey.
We want to remind you to followour show for new and back
episodes at recoverydiariesorg.
There, like the podcast, you'llfind stories of mental health,
empowerment and change.
You can also sign up for ourmailing list there so you never
miss a of mental health,empowerment and change.
You can also sign up for ourmailing list there so you never
(01:07):
miss a new podcast episode,essay or film, and you can find
this podcast pretty muchanywhere.
You get your podcasts.
We appreciate your comments andfeedback about our show.
It helps us improve, makechanges and grow and, of course,
make sure to like, share andsubscribe.
(01:29):
Shumaila Hemani.
Welcome to Recovery Diaries InDepth.
It is so lovely to have youhere.
Thank you for being here withus.
Shumaila Hemani (01:36):
Such a pleasure to be here.
Gabe, Thank you for having me.
Gabe Nathan (01:39):
You are so welcome and I'm curious.
Everybody has these kind oflike.
They call it the elevator pitchfor whatever it is for.
If it's their job, you knowthey have like the 30 seconds to
describe what they do.
But I think people also havelike elevator pitches for who
(02:00):
they are.
What's your elevator pitch?
Who are you?
Shumaila Hemani (02:05):
I'm an artist, scholar and a trauma-informed
coach.
I work on issues related withmental health, climate, justice
and cultural heritage to bringforth more justice in the world.
Gabe Nathan (02:20):
That is an elevator pitch if I've ever heard one,
and such a beautifully shapedand hopeful and helpful elevator
pitch.
So I just want to thank you forthe work that you do with
people.
It's pretty extraordinary.
You wrote an essay for us.
Do you remember when it was Do?
Shumaila Hemani (02:43):
you remember when it was?
It was published last year, Ithink.
We started the poll process inFebruary last year and then the
essay got published in June orJuly.
Gabe Nathan (02:53):
Yeah, so it's been about a year since the essay was
published and the piece it'sabout a lot of different things.
It is about music.
It is about a lot of differentthings.
It is about music.
It is about burnout.
It is about stress, academia,faith, resilience.
(03:14):
Can you talk a little bit aboutwho you were when you were
originally composing that piece,what was going on in your life,
and can you talk about thedecision that you made to send
it to us?
Shumaila Hemani (03:30):
I had recently founded my social enterprise,
the Deep Listening Path, inJanuary of 2024.
And I was giving and sharing mycourse with potential people
out there who had experiencedburnout, and I was sharing my
Harvard story in my masterclassin a few sentences, and that
(03:54):
started spurring somethinginside me because there was
something.
There was so much more that wasleft unsaid.
That masterclass was about theburnout, not the Harvard
experience, but I was justbringing in the Harvard
experience and something insideme was wanting to share this
part of me that I had kepthidden for long, because I used
(04:20):
to feel ashamed of my burnout,because I did not know back then
, back in 2010 and throughout mygraduate years, that this is
what was going on in my body.
I just felt like my body isbetraying me and I had to cancel
appointments and just say I'mnot well, I'm not well, and
(04:42):
people just used to wonder whatthat means.
Even you know why does shealways say she's not well?
But I didn't know how.
I didn't have the vocabulary todescribe what I was going
through and once through thedeep listening path, I found
that I received that awarenessthat I was experiencing burnout.
All this time, I felt compelledto share my story, share what
(05:06):
I've been through, and theHarvard experience was
particularly, very importantbecause that's when a lot in my
body had accumulated and, youknow, it kind of impacted the
rest of my graduate journey overthe years, because the burnout
kept rising, because there was alot of buildup from the Harvard
(05:29):
experience and its aftermath.
So I really felt compelled toshare my story and share this
part of me that I haven't sharedwith the world, that I've been
experiencing burnout for over 10years, and that's why I reached
out to OC Diaries.
Gabe Nathan (05:47):
When you were in the midst of what was going on.
You call it the Harvardexperience, and, of course,
we're going to talk more aboutthat, and certainly talk about
it when you're going to bereading your very, very fine
essay on the subject.
But when you were experiencingthat, that in the midst of that,
did you tell yourself a story?
(06:10):
Um, I I think you know, assomeone who lives with anxiety
and depression myself and andhas a lot of like self image
issues and selfworth issues, Itell myself a lot of stories
about who I am and why I'm afuck-up and an idiot and
incompetent and all of that kindof thing.
(06:32):
And I'm wondering if you weretelling yourself stories about
well, you just can't hack it.
Other people can get throughthis, can get through this.
Uh, it's, you're the problem.
Um, you know you're, you'reweak, you're insufficient,
(06:53):
you're this, that or the otherthing when you were really
struggling there.
Um, I'm just curious about whatwas happening in your internal
monologue in in 2010, 2011.
Shumaila Hemani (07:00):
2011.
Yeah, I think I will have to goback to that time in 2010 to
2011.
So during that time, a lot wasgoing on and one of the things
that was that that is a storythat I was not only telling
(07:20):
myself, but I was also noticing,and that is a story that I
haven't brought up fully in thearticle but I'm bringing it up
in my upcoming memoir, writingin the Wound, because Harvard
experience and the burnout thatI experienced there was part of
a larger trauma that wasbuilding up and has built up
(07:41):
over the years.
And one of the other thingsthat was going on was I was
noticing a kind of an academicjealousy from the Harvard
professors towards the professorI had worked with during my
master's, professor Regula Buk,very who has, who has maintained
(08:04):
a very, very high, you know,status in the field of South
Asian ethnomusicology.
So I was, I was seen as herstudent.
Even the librarian, who is avery prominent author, virginia
Danielson, who's written areally amazing book on Uncle
Thum, used to see me and say, oh, there, she is regular student,
(08:24):
you know.
So regular student was myidentity marker and that did
used to make others a bitnervous and I think there was a
pressure on me to.
There was more pressure on methan on the other students just
for that reason, because therewere some academic jealousies
(08:45):
going on as well.
And I noticed the outcome of itbecause, despite experiencing
the burnout, I did leave Harvardin good standing and I was
eligible for a terminal master'sdegree.
But I did not receive that and,in fact, what happened was my
(09:07):
PhD project was plagiarized, mymethodologies, everything was
appropriated, and it's been 10years I've worked with a master
scholar and none of my work hasgotten published.
So this is something that haspanned out over the course of 15
years, right, but when I was atHarvard in 2010, I was picking
(09:29):
up on that.
I was intuitively picking upthat something was off here.
There is something more that'sgoing on.
It's just not Harvardstructurally and the work that
they expect me to do and all.
There was something morebeneath the surface that was
going on and I had picked up onit.
I was talking about it with myclose friends, but then, of
(09:51):
course, I was a graduate studentthen and it did sound like I
was making excuses, right,because when graduate students
pick up on so much informationand then say that they are
working against me or somethinglike that.
It just sounds so unconvincing,right so?
But I was picking up on a lotof things that were happening
beneath the surface that led tomy burnout.
Gabe Nathan (10:13):
And what kind of support did you receive then and
after the fact?
I mean, obviously you had yourclose friends, but I'm curious
about other people who hadsimilar experiences, not just at
Harvard, but perhaps at otheracademic institutions anywhere
(10:50):
in the world.
Shumaila Hemani (10:51):
Yeah, thanks, Thank you for bringing up those
questions, because it reallykind of brings forward some of
the trauma that I'm experiencingthat whenever I bring forward
my story, I encounter silencefrom my community.
I literally I encounter silence.
Nobody speaks up, nobodysupports, nobody reaches out,
(11:13):
and I know that there is awhisper network behind my back,
something that I brought forwardin my recent essay Listening to
the Wound because I've beennoticing this whisper networks
going on for years and so, whenthis article came out, the
biggest thing that I wasexperiencing was on the OC
(11:34):
diaries and their socials.
I didn't experience much on mysocials.
Nobody reached out to me,everybody was silent, and that
also speaks to the fact thatwhen I was going through the
Harvard experience, some of myearlier friends who had doing
being passive, aggressivetowards me.
I think what was most helpfulduring the period that I was in
(12:10):
was in the spring of 2010,.
Some people I was living in theConant Hall dormitory dormitory
and I mentioned that I'll beleaving because of what was
going on to some of my flatmatesyou know, roommates or whatever
the floor mates and they saidthat, no, this is not right, you
(12:35):
were not well and you shouldn'tbe leaving because of that.
And they said OK, you know,we're going to fight for you.
So the floor mates cametogether and one of my floor
mates who was from China, hesaid I will come with you to the
dean's office and we'll talkand if this doesn't work, all of
us will come go together.
So I went with him.
(12:56):
His name is Lee.
I went with Lee to the dean'soffice and he mentioned he kind
of advocated for me.
He said that you know we liveon the same floor, she and he
mentioned, he kind of advocatedfor me.
He said that you know we liveon the same floor.
She was not well.
I could see she was not welland she has books all over her
room Like she's so studious,she's so hardworking you can't
do this to her.
So I think that that did help.
And the dean of graduate studies, garth McEwen.
(13:20):
He suggested a number of things.
He said I will advocate for you, but you also have to go
through these.
You know things that you haveto speak with a graduate
counselor to learn, to go deeperinto your situation, to see how
you can make amends.
We also recommend you go to apsychological counselor.
(13:40):
So I was taking psychologicalcounseling in addition to
graduate counseling and duringthe summer of 2010.
And so that was a support thatI received at Harvard and there
was a time when I even went toombudsman.
But there's not much that you,that those resources could do in
(14:04):
terms of I mean, there's onlyso much that they can help you
and I have to say they were very, very, very helpful, but that
couldn't prevent me from leavingHarvard after December 2011.
Gabe Nathan (14:26):
11th.
That's wonderful that you'reable to receive that support
from your floor mates.
That's very special and I'mvery glad that that was there
for you.
I mean, it wasn't enough, butit was something.
I'm curious.
Let's go back.
I want to go back to your earlylife, because music has been so
(14:47):
vitally important in yourentire existence.
I just want to know how thatgot started.
Shumaila Hemani (14:56):
Yeah, I think for me, I sort of originate my
music journey in this way, tothe time when I was 15 or 16 and
I was looking at undergraduateprograms that I would like or
things I would like to major inand it just came to me that I
want to pursue music becauseit's had such a special place in
(15:17):
my life.
At that time I wasn't trainedin western art music, I didn't
play a musical instrument, sothat was like a bizarre kind of
a dream that I had when I wasgrowing up in Karachi in
Pakistan, and I voiced thatdream to my mother and my
grandma and they're like shh, nomusic no way I can imagine.
Gabe Nathan (15:39):
Yeah.
Shumaila Hemani (15:40):
Because music is kind of associated with
showbiz and performing arts.
Historically, there areprofessional communities
associated with it, so there isa bit of a stigma there as well.
So my grandma was like no, no,no, like that.
But somehow all throughout myundergraduate I felt that there
(16:03):
was a calling.
I felt called to do that.
It sounds very idealistic whenI say but my heart said that
this is my path, and it was hardto believe because my 3D
reality said otherwise and I hadno idea how this could ever,
ever, ever happen that I wouldland in a music department.
(16:24):
It just seemed out of reach.
But I went through.
During the last parts of myundergraduate I came across the
program in Islamic Studies andHumanities.
I applied for that and theywere very encouraging for me to
pursue ethnomusicology and theyfunded my work and they
supported me.
(16:44):
So during my time in London Iwas taking courses in voice and
in keyboard skills and all, andso that was all a prep that
helped me to get into a musicprogram at the University of
Alberta where I did my master's,and from there I applied to
Harvard and Chicago and UCLA.
So 2010 was a great time.
(17:05):
I received admissions in allthe universities and in fact
Chicago and Harvard werefighting to have me.
So it was like a very, you know, encouraging time for me that a
bizarre dream could lead me atthis point, you know.
Gabe Nathan (17:22):
It's fascinating because, you know, I had this
thought in my head that you know, I was going to be asking you
about the beginning of your lovefor music and I was just
imagining like, oh well, I first, you know, touched the
harmonium at age four and I justI knew it's so fascinating that
it's really begins at 15 or 16.
(17:45):
I had thought, okay, therewould be this youthful history
and this progression leading upto this, but it's quite a
journey and I just you think of15 or 16 as really almost like a
late bloomer, but you seemed toreally be on fire at that age
(18:08):
and that it was just sending youon this path.
And I wonder, when you lookback now and you think about
Chicago and Harvard kind offighting for you, do you think
about what would have happenedif you had let Chicago win and
(18:31):
you had gone there?
Do you play that game in yourmind?
Shumaila Hemani (18:36):
Yeah, I played that game all throughout the
time after I left Harvard,because I did apply to Chicago
again and University of Alberta.
So these were two schools thatI applied to again in 2012.
And I didn't get into Chicagothe second time.
And I still remember that pointwhen I received my rejection
(19:01):
letter, because at that time Iwas taking lessons from my ustad
and he noticed that I was likemy energy had gone totally low
and I was very, very sad.
And so this game, I mean I wasplaying that even till my second
or third year of graduate studyat the University of Alberta.
I was I would blame myself, Ishould have gone to Chicago.
(19:23):
I should have gone to Chicago.
So I had that quite a bit tillsecond or third year.
But I think there was just youknow when that game gets played,
when life is going smooth, Ithink, because what happened
next was so dramatic.
(19:43):
There was just so many dramaticchanges happening in the
department and things happeningthat was throwing me off course
that whatever I had, I had tolearn to protect.
You know, I still was in a PhDprogram at the University of
Alberta.
I was studying with Regula.
That was amazing, right?
(20:03):
So I think life has a way ofshowing you to be more grateful
towards what you have, and overthe years.
you know, when I learned thatregular student Kaylee left
Chicago to go to anotheruniversity, then that was my
moment where I was like, oh mygosh, if I was at Chicago and I
(20:25):
wouldn't have finished my PhD bythat time and he would have
left, it would have been such anightmare, you know, finishing
my PhD in a department when Ilose my supervisory support.
And then there were otherthings that happened where I
realized that the people whowere showing me a lot of support
then were only showing mesupport because I had gotten
(20:48):
into Harvard and they didn'twant me to go there.
So I was picking up on that aswell, that Chicago was showing
me so much, that as well, thatChicago was showing me so much.
You know, they I mean they hadgiven me a package, but it was
not a full package.
I couldn't have come there inthe first place.
But then they had specialmeetings for me and they got me
(21:08):
a competitive package in, youknow, in comparison with Harvard
.
But I really felt like theywere doing it because I had
gotten into Harvard, not becausethey valued me.
So that was something I pickedon, even in 2010.
And I think I picked on evenlater.
I, just I.
I, I had my reasons for notchoosing Chicago.
Sure and um, although I, thegame continued in my mind.
(21:34):
I also think I made the rightdecision then by going to
Harvard and then by choosing theUniversity of Alberta.
Gabe Nathan (21:44):
And the game can go on forever and drive you crazy,
and so I think it's soimportant, like you said, to not
wallow in what's past but begrateful for what's present and
all of the doors and windowsthat opened because of past
decisions.
(22:05):
It's a really healthy outlook.
Can you talk a little bit aboutburnout in the context of
academia and the feelings thatgo along with it and the
repercussions because we hearabout it, I think, the most in
(22:26):
terms of first responderprofessions, in terms of nurses
or law enforcement or any ofthose fields, and I think and
you alluded to this earlier toothat there really is a stigma
that if you're experiencing this, it's because you can't cut it.
And that's a paramedicinstructor who talks about that
(22:49):
really archaic belief, even inemergency medicine, that if
you're struggling it's becausethis isn't for you.
(23:10):
And what he says is we need tochange that culture and the
attitudes of leadership that youknow if someone's struggling,
it's most likely forinstitutional reasons and there
need to be changes addressedthere to help people, not just
(23:30):
cut them out and get rid of them.
So I'd love to hear you speakto that a little bit.
Shumaila Hemani (23:35):
I think I would like to speak about burnout
from the perspective of aninternational student.
So, an international student,when they have to, you know,
when they come in anotherculture, it's not only
institutional culture, it'sculture of the country, city
that they are in and they'reaway from home there's a lot of
(23:58):
pressure.
There's a lot of pressure toperform and because the, I would
say, epistemologically, theknowledge creation and you know
it kind of differs from thecontext that they come from,
there is a pressure to alsoconform to, you know, the trends
(24:23):
or the hidden rules of thespace that they are in.
In my case, in addition to allof that which international
students experience ininternational universities.
I was coming from a non-Westernart music background and I was
(24:47):
thrown into a culture of musicdepartments that predominantly
are Western art music focused.
So ethnomusicologists have sortof resisted that culture by
bringing in other world musictraditions and you know, giving
space for that.
But within the world musictraditions I wasn't coming from.
(25:08):
At that time when I was atHarvard, I didn't have years of
training in Hindustani art music.
I didn't have that access.
So I didn't have the access tothe world music traditions.
Either I was coming from a veryfolk, folklorized or, you know,
local music that I had learnedfrom religious music from my own
(25:31):
community and I had a lot ofunderstanding and, you know,
passion to work to do this.
And this is something that oneof the professor who advocated
for my admissions he picked upon that we had met at Society
for Ethnomusicology meeting andhe saw the how driven I was
because this was my calling,this was my path.
(25:53):
So I was even more driven towork harder because there was
this thing in me that I'm notenough.
You know, I don't have this, Idon't have that, I don't have
that, but I have critical acumenand I need to merge this with
this and this and this and Ineed to keep working.
So there was that institutionalpressure and cultural pressure.
(26:16):
But in addition to all of that,that was that internal pressure
as well that I wanted tosucceed because this was my path
and I could not do with less.
You know, I had to be more allthe time.
Even when I was writing mymaster's thesis I had done some
really original and amazing work.
(26:37):
But there was this pressure toconform in the sense that my
mentor, regula, she said you'vedone amazing work.
But then there were peers likemy male friends in Pakistan or
my male friends in the other inthe ethnomusicology program,
(26:58):
other in the ethnomusicologyprogram, and as a woman, they
would trust my authority forwhat to say anything to
represent South Asian culture.
So I was pleasing too manypeople as well.
I was not just happy with mysupervisor saying you've done
amazing work.
I had to please so and so, soand so, so and so, and I know
(27:19):
that I wasn't able to pleasethem at the end of the day, but
I worked so hard that I knewwhere I was at.
I had really crossed a thresholdwhen I defended my master's
thesis and so that authority,that confidence, I mean I built
it deep down.
So you know, and that also kindof led to my burnout because I
(27:43):
was pushing myself in ways thatnobody else in my program was
doing it.
I mean I did four to fivemonths of fieldwork when we were
only supposed to do one monthof fieldwork during our master's
and that did impact my healthwhen I came back to Edmonton.
So that's where it all started,because there was this internal
(28:05):
, there was that sense of notbeing enough, but there was also
that sense of insatiability.
You know, I was so driven Iwanted to do everything, and
really well.
So I think they bothcontributed.
Gabe Nathan (28:22):
We have received and published multiple essays by
individuals from India, fromPakistan, from other countries
(28:45):
in Asia that have talked aboutacademic pressures and pressures
from parents from very early onpressures about grades,
pressures about performance,pressures about achievement and
about how the worth or value ofthe parents or the family is
really dependent upon how wellthe children do in life and by
(29:12):
how well they do, and that canbe anything from academic
performance to jobs and thingslike that.
Did you feel any of thatgrowing up?
Was that part of yourexperience?
Shumaila Hemani (29:25):
I think growing up I actually felt that most of
the attention was towards mybrothers, that my family's worth
really came from how my brotherwas doing.
So he was the he was.
When I was a kid I was, I wasvery laid back as a student.
I was a, you know, adventurouskind of a kid.
(29:47):
I didn't really care aboutstudying.
I had all these bizarre dreamsI'm going to travel the world
and all of that.
And then I noticed that mybrother was getting so much
praise and attention and so muchlove because he was standing
first in the class.
Like there was so muchhappiness my parents felt when
he he, you know he stood first,like there were garlands that
(30:10):
were brought for him and Ididn't receive any standing at
that point and that I think itwas in grade two that I told
myself I have to work hard.
I can't let me be just thisnobody who doesn't get you know
any, who doesn't get any ranksin class.
(30:30):
So it was from grade two that Istarted really working hard on
myself and really focusing on mystudies.
But what I have noticed overthe years is that even when I
have stood first in class, I'vealmost consistently stood second
.
But even when I've stood firstin class, there hasn't been much
happiness or joy or a sense ofachievement that my parents have
(30:56):
felt from my side.
It just doesn't matter for themwhether I've come first or
second or not come.
You know, that hasn't reallyhelped and it used to bother me.
It sometimes still bothers me.
But I think it also gave me akind of freedom that most South
Asian students do not getotherwise, that most South Asian
(31:21):
students do not get otherwise.
But I find also that patternkind of is repeating within my
network or community now thatwhatever I do I publish this
essay or I publish somethingelse or I give a talk or give a
keynote just nothing matters.
Nothing matters.
And it's a childhood patternthat's just coming in my adult
(31:43):
life.
Someday I'll write about it.
Gabe Nathan (31:46):
And in the end, really, I mean, this may sound
naive, but it just has to matterto you really, and kind of fuck
everybody else If they don'tcare or it doesn't resonate with
them or it doesn't feel like akind of salient achievement,
that's kind of their problemReally, it really does just have
(32:10):
to matter to you.
You can hang your own garlandsfor yourself.
So and I, I, I think this is ait's a nice way to move into
your essay, because youmentioned earlier that you know
when this was published it wasit was really silence for you in
terms of the response ofwriters and contributors and
(32:44):
readers here, because I thinkthat this is something that's
not talked about enough, and oneof the things I love about what
we do is we try to gainperspectives from people all
over the world and talk aboutthings that aren't talked about
enough.
So at this point, I would loveto hear you read your essay in
your own voice.
It's called Music is SanctuaryNavigating Burnout in the Ivy
(33:09):
League with the Power of DeepListening Whenever you're ready.
Shumaila Hemani (33:15):
Music was my refuge.
I could crawl into the spacebetween the notes and crawl my
back to loneliness, writes MayaAngelou.
Music has been a powerfulrefuge and a calling for me
since my teenage years.
Initially, I resisted its pull,aware that women within my
culture were not typicallyencouraged to pursue it as a
(33:38):
career.
Despite the barriers anduncertainties that loomed before
me, I couldn't ignore theundeniable truth this was what I
wanted to do.
The path ahead was unclear.
Little did I anticipate that itwould eventually lead me to the
University of Alberta and thento Harvard University, to
(34:07):
Harvard University.
Harvard University's mottoVeritas, meaning truth embodies
the pursuit of knowledge andintegrity.
Yet during my PhD studentshipat Harvard, from fall 2010 to
December 2011, layers ofdeception veiled the truth and I
felt like I had lost my way.
Beneath the surface lies adeeper truth Harvard mistreats
individuals who challenge thestatus quo.
(34:28):
My experience prompts me toexpose the institution's efforts
to manipulate and erasedissenting voices.
Another motto nothing isimpossible echoed through the
halls of Harvard, a mantra meantto inspire resilience and
determination.
Yet as I embarked on my PhDjourney in music, those words
(34:50):
felt more like a dismissiverefrain whenever I dared to
question the overwhelmingworkload in my first semester
Studying at the University ofAlberta between 2008 to 2010 was
a life-transforming experiencebecause, under the mentorship of
the distinguished South AsianStudies scholar, professor
(35:10):
Regula Bukhad Kureishi, Iembarked on a journey to study
the history of state patronageof music and dance in Pakistan,
culminating in my master'sthesis and, eventually, my
doctoral dissertation on Sufipoetry and sounds in Sindh.
During this time, I foundmyself reconnecting with the
musical cultures of Pakistan.
(35:31):
So when I started at Harvard, Iwas excited to begin what I
thought would be a similarlymotivating journey.
Although my studies at Harvardonly lasted a year and a half,
they initially opened vistasinto new cultures.
My arrival in Cambridgeintroduced me to a vibrant
community of scholars fromdiverse disciplines, each
(35:53):
boasting remarkable achievementsand intellectual prowess.
Conversations in the graduatedormitory reverberated with
tales of astronauts, fictionwriters, zoologists and artists,
igniting a mixture of awe andintimidation within me.
During my first year, thisexcited the explorer in me.
(36:14):
Every conversation opened newdoors.
I experienced many newfriendships, but there were
times I also felt emotionallyisolated.
In those days at Harvard, therewas a great emphasis played on
new students not feeling likeimposters in the Ivy League
community.
With an emphasis on equity,harvard did attract students
(36:37):
from diverse backgrounds anddespite the impressive
atmosphere, I never felt like animposter.
My supportive classmates helpedprovide a solid foundation to
navigate the intellectuallystimulating yet sometimes
overwhelming environment.
In my courses, my ideas andcritical thoughts stood out and
I felt appreciated forparticipating in class
(36:59):
discussions.
But as my graduate studiescontinued, my academic plate
overflowed with a staggeringworkload counteracting the
invigorating collaborativeatmosphere I felt at the start
of my studies.
Balancing multiple graduatemusic courses and a language
class proved daunting enough.
(37:19):
The true test of endurance,however, came with the
unexpected addition of anundergraduate music theory
course.
Even more, I was tasked withlearning a musical instrument
from a culture new to me, thatwas the Persian culture,
fieldwork in another culture,which was Ethiopian culture, as
well as independent study ofcultural and religious
(37:39):
traditions from outside my ownbackground.
It began to feel overwhelming.
While I embraced learning thesethings as great cultural
exposure, the expectation toimmediately excel felt
impossible.
After classes finished, eachday I retreated to the practice
rooms to study cadences and workon homework.
(38:02):
In my first semester, downtimewas non-existent.
It was a continuous cycle ofacademic and personal demands,
making it difficult for me toabsorb the experience of being
at Harvard.
At first there was a flicker ofdoubt regarding whether this
demanding workload was indeednormal within the academic
context.
I couldn't shake off thenagging feeling that perhaps I
(38:23):
was pushing myself too hard.
There were moments of quietapprehension where I questioned
the feasibility of maintainingsuch a rigorous base while
excelling academically.
Amidst the socially vibrantambience of Harvard's Dudley
Lounge and coffee gatheringswith peers, my formidable course
load became a topic ofincredulityley Lounge and coffee
(38:43):
gatherings with peers.
My formidable course loadbecame a topic of incredulity.
Even classmates and professorswhom I saw as the brightest mind
on campus expressedastonishment, questioning the
sustainability of such aworkload and its impact on
academic performance.
Isn't it affecting your grades?
This question served as aconstant reminder of the
delicate balance betweenacademic ambition and personal
(39:05):
well-being.
Initially, I reacted with ablend of surprise and
introspection.
I found myself oscillatingbetween a sense of normalization
and a creeping feeling ofanxiety.
There were graduate students atHarvard who had opted to take
seven courses in a semester bytheir own choice, but then they
were receiving extra time tocomplete their assignments and
(39:28):
turn in their final papers.
I did not receive anyaccommodations, even upon
request.
While I voiced my concernsabout the unrealistic demands to
my mentors, the prevailingsentiment echoed the
institutional's ethos Nothing isimpossible.
At Harvard, the unrealisticworkload and expectations did
(39:50):
impact my performance and grades, and, while I was an A-plus
student at the University ofAlberta, at Harvard, I received
grades that I felt did notadequately evaluate my caliber.
At the end of the semester,while I was exhausted and trying
to recuperate, I received anunexpected letter which was
unlike what I have everencountered before.
It was a disciplinary warningand an ultimatum to improve
(40:15):
performance or leave.
It felt more like a gun on myhead and seriously impacted my
mental health and wellness.
From there onwards, I was notonly working with a heavy
workload, but also withdifficult emotions around the
threat of being removed.
This zapped my energysignificantly.
(40:36):
It is incredibly traumatic tograpple with the letters of
warning that Harvard sends tostudents.
These missives, often ladenwith implications of
underperformance or poor fitwithin the institution, can have
profound psychological andemotional effects.
They serve as falseconstructions of one's perceived
(40:57):
shortcomings, fueling self-dand amplifying the already
existing pressure to succeed inan environment renowned for its
academic rigor.
Overcoming the weight of thesewarnings requires resilience,
support and a steadfast beliefin one's abilities amidst
adversity.
(41:18):
I spent the Christmas break of2010 grappling with the
consequences of the latter andfound the courage inside me to
begin another semester atHarvard In the spring of 2011,.
After I'd returned to school, Ifound myself experiencing
extreme exhaustion.
Prior to this, I had neverencountered burnout.
(41:38):
My mind, once ablaze withscholarly fervor, now lay
dormant, unable to muster thestrength for even the simplest
of tasks.
The demands of my schedule wererelentless Waking up at 7 am to
attend Persian language classesat 8.30, followed by a music
theory class, a graduate seminarand instrument class.
In addition, there weregraduate students talks and
(42:02):
guest lectures to attend in thedepartment.
I attempted to adjust myschedule to prioritize rest, but
any social event I missedresulted in repercussions.
This was often interpreted as alack of interest in the program
, further complicating myefforts to prioritize self-care.
My efforts to prioritizeself-care when I sought help
(42:23):
from a doctor at the medicalclinic.
Their positivistic standpointtowards well-being minimized my
experience, leaving me feelinginvalidated.
Doubt gnawed at my resolve.
Was I fabricating illness toevade the rigors of academia?
Burnout experts Emily andAmelia Nagoski astutely liken
(42:44):
burnout to a wound, emphasizingthe lengthy recovery process
akin to healing from a brokenbone or severe infection.
Back in 2010, harvardselectively avoided the issue of
student burnout and consideredthose who could not handle the
workload as unfit for theinstitution.
In April 2011, I faced apivotal moment at Harvard.
(43:06):
A second letter arrivedsignaling my departure from the
institution.
It was a tumultuous crossroads.
I still remember that it wasaround my birthday and I found
myself grappling with what myfuture would become,
contemplating my future.
Doubts crept in, urging me toabandon my musical aspirations.
Standing before a full-lengthmirror, I whispered words of
(43:30):
encouragement Shmila, you'rebrilliant, you can achieve
anything.
With those words, I made thedifficult choice to set aside my
pursuit of music and to leaveHarvard.
But little did I know that Iwas revving up for a spiritual
awakening.
As I strolled through thehistoric Harvard yard that day,
heading towards Dudley Lounge tomeet my friends towards the end
(43:52):
of my last semester, a suddenstirring within me ignited.
I realized the pressure ofHarvard was not the only avenue
to pursue my dream of Harvardwas not the only avenue to
pursue my dream.
My heart whispered vows.
I will not relent in my pursuitof my calling.
I will stand firm in my resolve.
I will embark on the journey toresume my PhD somewhere else
(44:14):
and, should the opportunityarise, I will seek mentorship in
the realm of Hindustani artmusic to refine my musical craft
.
I had arrived at HarvardUniversity identifying as an
atheist, convinced of theabsence of divine intervention
in the affairs of humanity.
Little did I anticipate that,within the ivy-covered walls of
(44:36):
this esteemed institution, Iwould encounter betrayal and
disillusionment that wouldshatter my preconceived notions
and lead me on a profoundjourney of rediscovering faith.
In the depths of despair, Ifound myself adrift in a sea of
uncertainty, grappling withexistential questions that
eluded easy answers.
(44:56):
It was amidst this existentialcrisis that I stumbled upon a
piece of music from the 16thcentury Khayal tradition at
Harvard's Lamont Library.
The composition was acontemporary piece sung by Ustad
Fateh Ali Khan from Pakistan'sPatiala Gharana and Indraag
Biragi Bheru.
When I played this piece, Ifound that an inner sanctuary
(45:19):
enveloped me, shielding me fromthe vulnerabilities that
surrounded me.
Amid the chaos, this musicalpiece became a refuge, a source
of strength and clarity amidstthe uncertainties of life.
The line Aapne Allah Ko Pehchanrecognize the Allah within you
from this piece resonated sodeeply with me, even as I write
(45:40):
about it, sending goosebumpsdown my body.
This spiritual message touchedsomething really profound within
me, pushing me to make thisimportant shift from the world
of reason that had betrayed meto seek a refuge in the world of
faith.
As I pushed through my lastsemester, sympathy from
professors remained elusive.
(46:01):
In the face of adversity, myold advisor, regula, stood by my
side, defending my reputation.
I felt blessed to have adistinguished mentor by my side
who also believed in my highcapabilities and was willing to
see me through as a scholarfinding her place in the
academic world.
Buoyed by Regula's unwaveringbelief, I pressed onward,
(46:23):
navigating the treacherouswaters of academia with courage
and resilience.
I concluded the fall of 2011semester with original research
in Chinese opera during theEnlightenment period for a
Harvard exhibition, acontribution I felt was
overlooked yet significant.
Leaving Harvard carried its ownweight of shame.
(46:43):
Without language to articulatemy burnout, I endured the
judgment of former colleagueswho saw my departure from an Ivy
League institution as a failureTo shelter myself from
negativity.
I made the difficult decisionto cut these individuals out of
my life entirely.
Yet, amidst this turmoil, theuniversity unveiled a new path
(47:05):
my dream of learning music froman ustad, a master musician and
teacher of the esteemed GwaliorKhurana, one of South Asia's
oldest musical lineages.
Guided by this ustad andsupported by mentors at the
University of Alberta, Idiscovered a new career identity
, one that I've nurtured throughgraduate and postgraduate years
in Canada.
(47:25):
I became a Sufi performer andreached new heights as I gave my
inaugural performance at theCanadian Centre of
Ethnomusicology in 2012.
At the University of Alberta, Ireceived a scholarship to study
music with Yustad, and I wentto Pakistan again in 2014 to
study with Yustad, and I went toPakistan again in 2014 to study
(47:46):
.
Three years later, I had thehonor of participating in three
performances at the Banff ArtsCenter of Creativity as part of
the World Music Residency.
Later, I received the CulturalDiversity Award that supported
the creation of my debut album,manat, which addressed climate
justice in the Global South withsung Sufi poetry of the 18th
century Sufi mystic, shah AbdulLatif Bita'i.
At the University of Alberta, Ialso served as a music faculty
(48:09):
in 2016 and for the semester atsea in 2020, during which I
traveled across America, asiaand Africa teaching
ethnomusicology courses.
My scholarly and artistictrajectory culminated in
teaching courses inethnomusicology in the music
department, as well as mypresent artist residency at
(48:29):
Mount Royal University as anartist changemaker.
Along this journey, I've learnedthat when one is experiencing
burnout, there is a high leaningtowards self-doubt and
diminishing one's own self-worth.
The key to breaking past.
This lies in taking your powerback and holding integrity in
the face of burnout.
By befriending burnout andaccepting its presence, we're
(48:53):
able to see the systemic factorsthat causes it and address them
adequately.
My experience inspired me tocreate the Deep Listening Path,
a music sanctuary course, andthe Resurgence Path, a music
sanctuary course and theResurgence Program, which
support changemakers to breakfree from advocacy burnout with
practices like deep listening,music and meditation.
Harvard's facade of academicexcellence often conceals its
(49:17):
oppressive tendencies, promptingme to speak out against the
injustices I experienced,prompting me to speak out
against the injustices Iexperienced Even after I had
left the institution.
I have experienced Harvard tocontinue unleashing its wild
hounds.
As we strive to uphold truthand accountability, it's
imperative to confront theinstitutional barriers that
stifle genuine discourse andperpetuate inequality.
(49:39):
Only through acknowledgementand action can we hope to
cultivate an environment thatembraces diversity, equity and
inclusion within academia andbeyond.
Harvard ultimately taught me todevelop resilience in
environments where I may be theonly person of color.
Even today, when I encountersituations where I feel rejected
as a member of anunderrepresented group, memories
(50:02):
of my experience at Harvardresurface.
I use those experiences asarmor to navigate and overcome
challenging situations and pushthrough, finding ways to
preserve myself and break innerglass ceilings, unleashing new
pathways to build safe spacesfor dialogue and creativity.
There is a famous quoteattributed to Rumi as you start
(50:25):
to walk on the path, the wayappears, and with my new
endeavors connecting music toburnout recovery, it feels as if
my journey as a compassionatewarrior for social justice has
only started.
Thank you, Thank you.
Gabe Nathan (50:40):
Thank you for writing that and thank you for
reading that and for sharingthat with our community.
Shumaila Hemani (50:46):
My pleasure.
Gabe Nathan (50:48):
So you're about a year out from publication.
How does it feel returning tothat piece?
What's coming up for you?
As you looked at it again, asI'm sure you did in preparation
for this interview and readingit aloud, what were you feeling?
Shumaila Hemani (51:10):
I must share here, gabe, that for the past
one and a half month I have beenvery rigorously writing my
memoir, which is upcomingWriting in the Woon, and that
memoir has been inspired by thisessay that I wrote, because the
process that I went through inwriting this essay and then
(51:31):
going through the editorialprocesses with Ethan and he
helped me to go to places in mymemory that I had really pushed
really down and I went in thoseplaces and I wrote about it.
So even at that time last March,april, when I was in that
(51:55):
editorial process, it just kindof cracked open something in me
because I had suppressed some ofthese memories really really
deep, deep down.
And so my memoir kind of opensup these wounds and memories
(52:17):
even deeper.
So I find that what I amfeeling is wow, I made it
through this essay, like I didit, I wrote it, I was able to
access these parts and that hasbecome, I find, like that was my
stepping stone for writing thismemoir, because it gave me a
(52:41):
lot of courage to go intodifficult places in my memory.
I don't know if I've answeredyour question, but that's what's
happened to my mind right nowmemory.
I don't know if I've answeredyour question, but that's what's
coming to my mind right now.
Gabe Nathan (52:53):
It's really lovely to hear that and to know that
the one is inspiring the other.
And I think that as we getolder we do push a lot down and
we push a lot of what is painfulto feel and to revisit.
We kind of put it in a draweror a closet and lock it away.
(53:16):
And I think revisiting thosethings, even while it can
sometimes be painful and hard,it can ultimately be really
cathartic and helpful and youknow, as was the case with you,
spur a whole new creativeenterprise.
(53:37):
So that's really wonderful tohear.
I'm glad that that was yourexperience.
What would have helped you stayat Harvard?
Do you think what could havebeen different that would have
helped?
Shumaila Hemani (53:55):
I think I had reached a point by fall 2011,.
I had reached a point where Itried everything, everything
possible, to stay, because Ididn't know what lay beyond
leaving Harvard.
Didn't know what lay beyondleaving Harvard, so the gut was
like just stay, you know,because that felt safe, safer
(54:23):
than what lied ahead.
So I had really triedeverything and some of my
friends there it's interestingthat they consulted wise women
for me and they told me thatdon't worry, your path ahead is
much more amazing than what youhave experienced here and to
them.
When I used to hear that, Ididn't used to feel very
(54:47):
convinced because I was latchingon to the safety of the present
, but that proved to be true.
Gabe Nathan (54:57):
I mean not what more could you have done.
I mean what more could they havedone as an institution?
So like, for instance, I'mthinking about a guest that we
had on our show, one of ourearly guests.
His name is Peter Lehman andhe's a professor in Utah, and
they had a suicide on campus andhe did not know the student,
(55:20):
but he was profoundly impactedby her loss and he is someone
who has lived with depressionand with suicidal ideation as
well depression and withsuicidal ideation as well and he
decided to make a change in hisclassroom and decided to begin
every semester by talking to hisclass about his personal mental
(55:42):
health and about his struggleswith depression and to say if
you need something, if you needsomething, if you have special
needs, if you are struggling,come to me.
I want to know, and I want youto know that you are being
(56:07):
taught by someone who is alsostruggling and that I'm not
always okay.
So I think that that's anexample of someone in the
academic world who really getsthe need for empathy, who gets
the need for being real andputting some things ahead of
(56:27):
academic rigor.
So that's really what I'masking you what could have been
done on the institutional side.
To keep you there.
Shumaila Hemani (56:38):
So there's a lot that I can say there, I
think what's important to bearin mind and again I'm going to
reassert that, even though I wasexperiencing severe burnout in
the spring of 2011, I pushedthrough, gabe.
I pushed through, I submittedmy work.
(56:59):
But the professor who gave me aC she gave me just a C because
I had missed a few classes andshe took it out on my paper.
My paper did not deserve a C mygrade in that course did not
deserve a C minus.
I had done my presentation, Ihad done my critical review, I
had finished all the work andthey couldn't value that.
(57:21):
I think there was not just alevel of high level of injustice
there.
If there was, it's a level ofcruelty.
I would say that thoseprofessors showed to me and on
top of that, it was myethnomusicology professor who
gave me that grade.
All the other professors oncampus like the course that I
(57:43):
was taking in anthropology, thecourse I was taking in language,
they were very accommodating.
I received accommodations.
I was able to finish thosecourses.
I again would like to say I leftHarvard in good standing.
But my ethnomusicologyprofessors they did not give me
a terminal master's degree and Ileft without with just
(58:05):
questions.
People just used to ask mequestions about what did you do
there?
What happened, what did you dothere?
What happened, what did you dothere?
And because I didn't even havea degree, you know, a person
coming, a woman coming fromPakistan, pursuing music which
is so stigmatized and thenexperiencing burnout and then
going through, but doing all thework that's required.
(58:25):
There's some grace that youcould have given, and I'm not
even asking for grace here, I'mjust asking for justice.
There was none and in my, inthe fall of 2011, one of the
actually used some because Ididn't come from a Western art
music background.
They use that as an excusefurther to undermine me and it's
(58:48):
just.
It's just a level of academiccruelty that has continued,
because even after I leftHarvard, they took my PhD topic,
methodologies and a Harvardscholar has made a name in the
field based on my work.
And nobody, because Harvard hassuch a you know, a mafia-like
(59:10):
presence that you know you can'tsay anything against Harvard.
Even at Society forEthnomusicology, the plagiarized
work gets awards, gets crowned,while my work is made it to
feel like, oh, we're doing you abig favor by even letting you
in our circle.
You know that is the attitude,and none of my work has gotten
published.
(59:30):
So in terms of what could theyhave done better?
Oh my gosh, there is just somuch to say there.
I think they were brutallycruel.
These are very respectful namesin the discipline and I have to
say that they were very unjustand they continue to be very
unjust and very cruel towards me.
Gabe Nathan (59:49):
So I rest my case there and yet, in spite of that,
here you are not just survivingbut thriving and doing
extraordinary things for theworld and for human beings, and
we're just so, so grateful thatyou're doing that work and
pursuing that with brain andwith heart, and for being a part
(01:00:13):
of our community and having anew essay in the pipeline as
you're working on your memoir.
I'm very excited to be workingon that with you, and so I just
want to thank you for everythingthat you're doing and for
spending time with us.
Shumaila Hemani (01:00:30):
It was a real pleasure to be here and I really
appreciate the space that youhave created and the work you're
doing.
It is so, so important.
Gabe Nathan (01:00:39):
Thank you.
Thank you, Sharmila, andwishing you all the best in
everything.
Shumaila Hemani (01:00:44):
Thank you for having me, Gabe.
Gabe Nathan (01:00:50):
Thank you again for joining us in conversation
today.
It's beautiful to see theprogression of our contributors.
Thank you again for joining usin conversation today.
It's beautiful to see theprogression of our contributors.
We are so, so grateful to DrShumaila Hamani.
She is the author of Music isSanctuary Navigating Burnout in
the Ivy League with the Power ofDeep Listening.
She is also the founder of theDeep Listening Path Initiative,
(01:01:12):
which aids advocates inovercoming burnout.
Before we leave you, we want toremind you to check out our
website, recoverydiariesorg.
There, like this podcast,you'll find additional stories,
videos and content about mentalhealth, empowerment and change.
We look forward to continuingto grow our community.
(01:01:33):
Thank you so much for being apart of it.
We wouldn't be here without you.
Be sure to join our mailinglist so you never miss a podcast
episode, essay or film.
I'm Gabe Nathan.
Until next time, take good care.
Thank you.
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