February 10, 2025 • 51 mins
Reed Smith is a man of many talents, skills, abilities, and interests. He is a filmmaker, a screenwriter, a podcast host, and a creative, talented man. He is also living with autism. Recovery Diaries is committed to featuring a diverse array of autism spectrum stories, and Reed's journey is exciting and engaging, as you will see in this latest episode of Recovery Diaries in Depth.
In 2017, Recovery Diaries made a film about Reed's interests in screenwriting called "Living with Autism: A Screenwriter's Story" but our relationship with Reed actually goes back quite a bit further. Reed met our Executive Director and podcast host, Gabe Nathan, back when Gabe was working at a non-profit performing arts center for children and Reed, then 14, was Gabe's student in acting and writing classes. Gabe is fond of saying that he learned far more from Reed than Reed did from him and he never forgot Reed's interest in creative storytelling and film.
Fast forward to Reed's early twenties; he was in film school and interned at FreshFly, Recovery Diaries's filmmaking partner in all our documentary films. There Reed was able to gain hands-on, practical experience in documentary filmmaking, and Reed's interest in various genres only blossomed.
Reed is currently navigating post-production on an ambitious film he made about making, keeping, and navigating friendships as a person with autism. We are already looking forward to having Reed back on RDID once his film is complete!
It was such a joy bringing Reed back for a podcast interview to talk about his life, his thoughts on cinema (he has many, and expresses them enthusiastically and earnestly in his own podcast, "Cinema on the Spectrum.") his experiences with bullying and the intricacies and nuances of friendship in this wide-ranging and thought-provoking podcast interview between two friends with shared interests and passions.
Conversations like the ones on this podcast can sometimes be hard, but they're always necessary. If you or someone you know is struggling, please consider visiting www.wannatalkaboutit.com. If you or someone you know is considering suicide, please call, text, or chat 988.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gabriel Nathan (00:01):
Hello, this is Recovery Diaries In-Depth.
I'm your host, Gabe Nathan.
Thanks so much for joining us.
We're very happy to have youhere.
I'm so excited to have as ourguest today Reed Smith.
Way back when, reed was acamper of mine at a creative
arts day camp, later in his lifehe did an internship with Fresh
(00:21):
Fly Films and Glenn Holsten,who makes all of our documentary
films here at Recovery Diaries.
He's making a film of his ownright now that's in
post-production, about his lifemaintaining friendships, and he
has a podcast called Cinema onthe Spectrum.
Each week we'll bring you aRecovery Diaries contributor
folks who have shared theirmental health journey with us
(00:42):
through essay or video format.
We want to see where they arein their mental health journey
since initially being publishedon our website.
Our goal is to continuesupporting our diverse community
by having conversations here onour podcast to follow up and
see what has shifted, what haschanged and what new things have
emerged.
We're so happy to have youalong for this journey.
(01:04):
We want to remind you to followour show for new and back
episodes at recoverydiariesorg.
There, like the podcast, you'llfind stories of mental health,
empowerment and change.
You can also sign up for ourmailing list there so you never
miss a new podcast episode,essay or film, and you can find
this podcast pretty muchanywhere you get your podcasts.
(01:24):
We appreciate your comments andfeedback about our show.
It helps us improve, makechanges and grow.
And, of course, make sure tolike, share and subscribe.
Reed Smith, thank you so muchfor being on Recovery Diaries
In-Depth.
It's so great to see you.
Reed Smith (01:45):
Great to be here, Gabe.
Thank you so much for having me.
Gabriel Nathan (01:49):
Well, it's a delight and I you know.
Rather than me introducing you,I'd like you to introduce
yourself to us in the way thatyou see fit.
Who are you?
Reed Smith (02:09):
to us in the way that you see fit.
Who are you?
Well, right now, I'm somebodywho was a past participant in
OC87 Recovery Diaries, when itused to just kind of show to
show videos and not its podcasts.
In 2017, I did an interview withthe filmmaker who has often
(02:32):
done videos on OC87 RecoveryDiaries, glenn Holston, talking
basically about a screenplaythat I haven't really worked on
a long time but felt like a coolthing for me to do.
That really meant something tome at the time, and I was doing
it while I was working ongetting into certain film
(02:57):
graduate schools, and so a bigdevelopment that's happened to
me since doing that RecoveryDiaries film, which is all still
worth seeing is I have gotten,in fact, into film graduate
school.
I was actually a part of theSchool of Visual Arts social
documentary program, which I'mafraid is not there anymore, but
(03:19):
I had two wonderful yearsreally working there and made
some good films that I'm proudof, and then, after I graduated
from that program, there is afilm I'm working on right now.
I now am one of the hosts of apodcast known as Cinema on the
(03:42):
Spectrum known as Cinema on theSpectrum where me and another
friend who has autism like me,discuss certain movies from
certain directors, and westarted with a focus on David
Cronenberg and our final DavidCronenberg film just came out
last Thursday, where we reviewedhis last film, and that was all
(04:04):
been quite an interestingexperience that I'll be happy to
talk more about.
Gabriel Nathan (04:09):
Wow.
So you have a lot going on.
You are a writer, you aremaking and producing and
directing films.
You've studied filmmaking, youhave a podcast and there's a lot
of ground to cover Reed, and Ijust want to start with
(04:29):
something related to the filmthat you're making now about
maintaining friendships.
Now, that's what I want totouch on.
You're someone who lives withautism.
Reed Smith (04:41):
Yeah autism?
Gabriel Nathan (04:48):
Yeah, and I'm curious to know if you believe
that maintaining friendships assomeone with autism presents
unique or different challenges.
Reed Smith (04:54):
Well, I think there are certain ways that maybe
autism has affected my abilityto make friends that I don't
kind of put denial into.
Sometimes I'm a little bitconfused on how it's all
affected and as I look at whatI've done, as I've kind of come
(05:21):
to the latest cut right now ofmy film and as it's all getting
done, while I specifically statethat I have autism, I'm not
really sure there's anythingquite I touched on in the film
that only really maybe theaudience can speculate.
(05:42):
And I mean you'll see a littlebit more of what I'm talking
about hopefully when the film isdone where it specifically kind
of altogether states that thisstruggle specifically happened
because I have autism.
And well, and there's manythings about the definition and
(06:02):
what it all means.
That I think remainscomplicated.
I think another thing, thattheme I really touch on my film
is the big, certain similaritiesI may have with people who
don't have autism but also thepeople who have certain
differences and the similaritiesand the differences between me
(06:22):
and other people with autism.
That's all real kind of likecomplicated to understand.
I think there are some who kindof like had maybe it's because
they have more severe autism orbecause they've had other
struggles, who may have kind ofhad a lot things a lot worse
(06:45):
when it came to like dealingwith that struggle involving
friendship.
The woman who was the head ofthe autistic support program in
my elementary school which Iwasn't really a part of until
fourth grade and was just therefrom fourth grade to fifth grade
before I graduated she reallyasserted that she knows a lot of
(07:09):
autistic people who have a lotof friends and maybe some of
them do it in a different wayand some have different feelings
and there's different thingsthat all different things can
mean.
I mean, I think I myself andsomebody who kind of keeps going
through now different feelingsnow, as I did in the past, of
(07:31):
like really wanting to reach outwith people and to have a lot
of good experiences and makingconnections, but also then
there's that other part of methat's kind of like what's my
damn time to just kind of relaxa little bit by myself before
kind of then getting back outthere and being a little bit
(07:55):
more social.
So there's a lot of differentfeelings that vary.
I mean, I think one thing Igive a vague hint about in the
film but don't touch on as thetheme directly, that one thing
that was recurrently true of mein kind of like preschool and
elementary school is that, likemost of those days on the
(08:19):
playground, I did just kind ofspend time by myself and I think
there was a lot of differentvariety of reasons for that and
I probably did way too much ofwhile.
I think I'd really utilize thetime to think, as I think now
(08:47):
who I've not contacted while itseems kind of worth contacting
in recess could be all a goodtime to contact them and talk
with them.
I think there still would besome days where at recess where,
if I felt like I had enoughsocial time, maybe I just kind
of want a certain time to justkind of relax and think about
(09:08):
things for myself and maybe, asI've come to the thoughts, maybe
I'll be able to ready tointeract some more, which I
think I go through somedifferent feelings when I've had
intense conversation withsomebody, whether it is through
a friend or a family member.
Gabriel Nathan (09:25):
It's really interesting and I want to talk a
little bit more about likeelementary and middle school.
Um, I'm uh, when I was inelementary and middle school, I
was bullied um a lot, um forlots of different reasons, and I
think that that made me want towithdraw and be more in my own
(09:50):
head, because I think I was alittle bit afraid of taking a
risk and being vulnerable andinteracting with someone and
maybe they would hurt meemotionally or physically or
whatever.
And I'm wondering if that wastrue for you, did you experience
any bullying when you were likeelementary and middle school
(10:11):
age and how did that affect you?
Reed Smith (10:14):
Well, gabe, so that is a big thing that I really
touch on.
I really do.
Kind of bullying is quite thebig theme to my film, of
bullying is quite the big themeto my film.
And I don't know entirely, gabe, what your story is, but here's
all the complications in mystories.
Two of my bullies were actuallyat different points, I think my
(10:40):
closest friend, and they'redifferent and complicated in
different ways.
So, Gabe, I say I have a friendnamed David, but I don't think I
really touched on how, uh, thevery first day of starting first
grade he's kind of one of thefirst guys we see I saw at the
(11:02):
bus stop and we kind of allconnected with the family and we
all turned out to be in thesame class and he was all my
first friend started out and Ithink there was many ways in
that first grade year we wouldhave a good friendship, as I
talked about in the film, how webonded over this Spider-Man
video game that people looknostalgically on over the years
(11:25):
that came out in 2000.
That was kind of the first 3Dinteractive world and I think
both me, my mom and cousin werejust talking about yesterday, if
we really want to include ascene about how happy David and
I were bonding over theSpider-Man video game and I
(11:47):
can't remember even exactly infirst grade how much I
remembered having at least somebad experiences with him.
I'm not sure if he did quitethe same real mean things to the
same extent that he did withinthe Arrowhead camp that we were
(12:11):
a part of right after firstgrade.
That I talk about to the filmto some degree and I don't touch
on, I think, everything thathappened with our bullying
experience.
But one thing I do really talkabout in the film is kind of
like when, after we reallybonded over that Spider-Man
(12:35):
video game I'm not sure if hedid the language exactly, but we
have a kind of like play acting, kind of rehearsal of the scene
of how he did that saidsomething bad about it I just
(13:03):
sort of ended up saying that hethe experiences of maybe times
he was mean to me when we werein first grade versus Arrowhead
Camp.
I can say for sure that I dothink Arrowhead Camp did sort of
mark this contrasting change ofus, kind of like really losing
(13:24):
something that was good to ourfriendship and what one of the
big developments that happenedthe film is.
I did in fact, uh interviewdavid actually really, and
talked with him all about theseexperiences that he had and
while he didn't remember doingthis, he believed he did it and
was sorry about it, and he didum think that that while he was
(13:51):
seeing himself as somebody wholikes so him feeling like he
shouldn't either, and that,basically, was somewhat my
(14:16):
analysis going in, because Ididn't really touch on this in
my film, this in my film Iremembered uh, uh, another
friend that him and I mutuallyhad and us kind of like all
bonding over these couple ofdifferent spider-man video games
that these two had, that wereall kind of like, uh, a part of
(14:38):
a franchise, and remembering allthe kind of like the good times
of that.
And so I think maybe not havingthat friend, amongst other
various reasons, and there wasjust a lot about just Arrowhead
camp.
I haven't even really kind oftouched on on my film.
That I think is really awful initself.
(15:04):
There were these counselorsthere who said if you guys uh
don't do this, we will uh dressyou guys up as girls.
There were guys, there werecounselors who did things like
uh threaten us if we didn't playthis game right, they would put
us into the girl scout area.
(15:26):
So just a lot of clearly Idon't know how it's doing today
A lot of clearly anti-trans,anti-guys being friends with
girls.
I don't know just even realhomophobic issues going on there
that I don't know how it'sbeing looked on with how much
(15:47):
our time and culture has changedreally.
So there's a lot we've kind oftouched on and got into Gabe
with all that.
Gabriel Nathan (15:54):
Yeah, but well, hopefully the atmosphere at that
camp is a lot different now andthank you for sharing those
experiences, reed.
It's really hard when a friendkind of turns on you, you know
you think they're one thing, andthen whether they're influenced
by their peers or other kindsof external pressures, and then
(16:20):
that can be really hard.
But I think it's also reallycool that you interviewed David
later as an adult, and I've hadthis experience with two bullies
Dan and Alex were bullies to mewhen I was younger and then I
became very good friends withone of them late in life and
it's just, it's a nice reminderthat people can change, that
(16:44):
people have the capacity tochange for the better.
So thanks for pointing that outtoo.
I want to transition to kind oftalking about movies.
I would love to know is there afilm that you particularly love
(17:07):
where autism plays a role inthe film?
Maybe the main character issomeone who has autism spectrum
disorder or someone else in thefilm, or it's what the film is
about.
Can?
Reed Smith (17:27):
you think of any film like that?
Well, there are.
I will say things about.
There are a lot of things aboutRain man, Gabe.
I will say that I do love Idon't.
I do think, as we were talkingabout similarities and
differences before, who DustinHoffman is is very different
from who I am.
(17:48):
I think there's a lot that saysthat.
I guess I hint at somewhat inthe film about how the
definition of autism changes allthe time and what it means,
(18:13):
means.
But I think to get at maybe thecharacter who I feel kind of
the most alike, who at leastfelt very strongly he had autism
, was the character that uh andI'm funny spoiling this in the
tv show parenthood, when RayRomano's character did some
certain readings after he hadmentor of uh, been a mentor
(18:37):
worked in this photography shopand he was looking out for
somebody who had autism.
And when, uh, some, and whenthings didn't go wrong with the
schedule and this kid withautism started to act badly
about it, then Max, the kid withautism's father, would give Ray
(18:59):
Romano's character and RayRomano's character's name is
Hank a book about autism andwhen he read the book he really
felt very strongly that autismdid kind of really reflected who
(19:21):
he was and that really made himon a mission to kind of think
about what he can do to make hislife better.
And while I had always kind ofbeen seen at least maybe even
before fourth grade when I was apart of the autistic support
(19:43):
program at least as having alearning disability of some sort
, there were, I think, differentmoments.
Maybe it was in ninth gradewhen I actually thought about
another friendship who's alittle bit happens, a little bit
more recurrently going on inthe film than David, Josh, and
(20:04):
about the impacts of thatrelationship.
That always kind of made mekind of think a lot about what
different changes I guess I canalways make into my life.
And I guess I do always haveeven the questions whether it's
something to do with my personalexperiences and I do think, as
you say, Gabe, maybe like thebullying is playing a role
(20:29):
whether it's the bullyingexperiences I've had with Josh
and David, certain differentways that kind of like lead me
to think about just kind of whatto change, about who I am and
(20:51):
what to do better.
And there are certainly otherthings going on in Hank's life.
Well, I do think another bigpart of what did happen within
Hank's story and why he wasn'tdiagnosed with autism not
knowing he had autism sooner ishow much that kind of caused all
(21:12):
sorts of tensions between himand the wife he was divorced,
already have autism and how thathe felt that led for their
difficulties in communication tonot always have the best
relationship, and it is possiblethat did kind of all impact me
(21:43):
in certain other relations, allimpact me in certain other
relations, and I guess, likethere's certain things within my
film that were went in anddidn't go in.
But I did kind of talk a littlebit specifically that in one
interview that just kind ofinterview segments that was cut
out of the film, and somebodyelse I interviewed, Wooter he
(22:04):
did really feel like autism didkind of like impact our
relationship in some ways and hecouldn't fit.
He didn't really say though,and I think basically what we
concluded there from our talkswas basically how, like, since
(22:25):
it may have impacted my abilityto interact as well as maybe I
could have, maybe I could haveif it didn't have the same type
of impact and I guess it'salways hard to say with the
what-if questions Maybe him andI would have done a lot more
(22:46):
hanging out outside of school,even though one of the things we
do talk about in my interviewswith films with him is how we
did have good lunch chats.
But Wooter did talk about howthere were a lot of guys he
would be friendly with at lunchwho he wouldn't hang out with
outside of school.
Really Right.
Gabriel Nathan (23:08):
How do you think , you know, when you look at
your life and you know we'vetalked about your early years
and then, kind of, you know,when I first knew you, I would
say you were 15, 14, 15, around.
Then you were a student of mineat a children's performing arts
(23:30):
center and so I knew you aroundthat age, kind of adolescence,
and then you had this internshipat Fresh Fly, the studio that
makes our films with Glenn, Ithink you were in your early 20s
, Mm-hmm, and now you're 30.
So, if you look through thiswhole span of your life, how do
(23:57):
you feel you've changed in termsof your mental health?
You know, have you had periodsof anxiety or depression
throughout your life?
Um, how do you think?
How do you think you've changedin that respect?
Reed Smith (24:16):
Well, I think there definitely have been certainly a
lot of, um, intense momentswhere I've kind of like been
intensely kind of like unhappyabout certain different things.
I've not really been kind oflike diagnosed with being
(24:40):
depressed in life in a certainclinical sense, but I mean, and
I think there's even some, allthese different recent periods I
go through, of feeling unhappyabout certain different things.
I'm not living, at least atthis point in my life, quite a
(25:05):
fairly a fairly a lot moreflexible schedule than a lot of
other people are, which can haveits own challenges to it, and I
keep trying to think throughwhat to do best within my
schedule.
There had been another period,like when I was a part of the
Social Documentary School ofVisual Arts, particularly in the
(25:28):
very first year of the twoyears I was there when it just
in this first semester, whenthings were just kind of like so
incredibly intense and I justkind of like I think it was that
way for everybody, but Icertainly did feel like I didn't
have a whole lot of time forother things but to kind of work
(25:50):
on my classes in my films and,um, uh, and I describe myself as
kind of like just making thingsas the last second through
messages, by dodging the bullet,which was like a lot of how I
think, like certain other peopledo feel about their graduate
(26:14):
experience, even though and insome ways I still do look back
fondly of those experiences.
Sometimes there's somequestions there if there's more
I could have done with it, morethat could have happened, and a
lot of different people, I think, have their different thoughts
on their graduate experience andI've had my questions on how I
(26:37):
feel in comparison with both.
I think people who did graduatethe social documentary
experience, both before me,people who were in my program,
people who did manage to getthrough the program after I
graduated, before it did allclose down, and I think there
(27:06):
have been people who may nothave actually had, uh, quite the
same success with things, bothin terms of kind of like what I
have made it happen within mymaking, keeping friends film and
with my and with what I'vegotten done with my podcast and
(27:26):
people just kind of moved awayfrom films from their life
altogether.
But there are some people who Ido think have had a lot more of
a real, more of a kind of like,more of a real kind of like
ongoing job and more.
I don't of like ongoing job andmore I don't know if it is even
(27:49):
more serious grunt work andkind of working in films.
I mean and it's questionable ifthey're glad to be doing that
to still kind of focus on theprojects they're passionate
about.
I mean, I certainly have kindof been more fortunate than
(28:09):
certain other people have beento kind of like have a family
who's been able to back me andkind of focusing on things that
I've been passionate about interms of the podcast and the
film, even though there is still, like I think, some questions I
still deal with.
Um, I think the podcast isclearly still more my favorite
(28:32):
thing at this point than thefilm.
Well, and I think part of thereason, uh, why I'm not quite as
crazy about the film as I usedto be, is because the as I think
I talked with you before, gabe,at the interviewing part of
things is over and it was greatwith all the different
interviews I've done.
Certainly, I think theinterview with David was
(28:54):
particularly a special bighighlight, especially now it's
time for me to kind of geteverything sorted out, to kind
of work at getting the filmsproduced, but when that's done,
I am thinking about kind of like, uh, having more of a podcast
(29:16):
talking with all sorts ofdifferent people in connection
with my life, since I mean, I'vejust touched on certain things.
I really did not do certainthings in my film, like I said
before, like touch on any ofthose things about Arrowhead
Camp that I did with just mytalk with you, gabe.
So I do wonder just kind of whatelse more can I do with another
(29:38):
podcast entirely?
I mean, I think it could take alot of work and there could be
a lot of deep struggles,anxieties take a lot of work and
there could be a lot of deepstruggles, anxieties those can
have along the way, as I thinkI've dealt with a lot of
different points over the yearsbut I think I've managed to make
it through and get someaccomplishments.
I mean, maybe there are somedifferent things that have
(30:02):
failed, um, that even uh, andmaybe I could name it more in
the past than ways I can now.
I mean, I guess maybe one ofthe questions I have as we kind
of touch on the different thingsin the years is if there are
ways in which, kind of like Icould have also reached out, be
friends with certain peoplesooner, that it might just be
(30:26):
too late now, really, I mean.
Gabriel Nathan (30:29):
Oh, it's never too late.
I would say it's never too lateuntil the other person drops
dead, then it's definitely toolate, but until that happens, I
think there's always a chancefor reconnection.
I think there's always a chancefor repair.
And one of the things thatreally strikes me about you,
(30:50):
reid, is how reflective you are.
You really take the time tothink about interactions from
the past, things that you havesaid and done, or just thinking
about the past.
Should I have done this, shouldthis have happened?
Would it have been better thisway?
(31:10):
And I think that's so.
It's a wonderful thing to beable to do, and I think it's
great to do that by yourself,and I also think it's great to
do it with others, and they canbe people in your family or they
can be people from your past,and 20, 30, 40 years can go by,
(31:32):
and it's still, I think, a greatthing to reach out to folks and
just say, hey, I've beenthinking about this thing from
high school, or this interactionthat we had, or this choice
that I made.
You know, what do you thinkabout that?
And I think about also the, thework that you do in terms of
(31:53):
making the film, in terms ofyour podcast.
Um, it's all very connected.
It's it's not just read rightit's Reed and the people he's
working with to make the film.
It's you and your podcast hostand your guests, and you're
(32:15):
always connecting andcollaborating, and I think
there's a myth about people withautism spectrum disorders that
they have a lot of difficultyconnecting and I feel like it's
something you're really good at.
Have you had that experiencewhere you know you've been
(32:40):
confronted with people who makeassumptions about you and your
autism?
Reed Smith (32:45):
I think there's a lot of different questions, of
certain assumptions going on byother people.
I'm trying to even remember thespecifics.
I don't know, gabe, if this isexactly what you're looking for,
but I think there's often a lotof the times I'm meeting with a
certain therapist right now whothere may be some
(33:06):
misunderstandings of, and I'mnot sure if she might be making
too much of an assumption whenit comes to my autism.
I could be wrong about this ornot, but one of the things I
talked about her during atherapy session, for example
(33:28):
again, Gabe, I'm not sure ifthis is a good example, but,
like when it came to working onmy podcast, I really kind of put
out the question am I doingenough to kind of like, you know
, reach out to people?
And she didn't seem to have areal kind of like clear answer,
(33:51):
whether or not or not.
She seemed to kind of focusmore on this question on, um, uh
, well, I think I don't know Ican't remember exactly what she
did; If she already felt I didtoo much of that, because that
is kind of what somebody withautism would be most likely to
do, or just kind of like if Iwas too afraid of being tense,
(34:14):
of getting kind of like rejected, as somebody who has autism
does.
And I mean another questionthey had, I guess, like formed
on who I'm most afraid of beingrejected by, and I would pose
her the question to her wouldthose be people who are
(34:36):
interested in David Cronenbergand people who are interested?
And she said the people who areinterested in David Cronenberg
and like, well, why would Iworry quite as much about the
people who aren't interested,when if they're not interested
in that podcast, that I wouldn'tbe involved with that?
(35:03):
Like we're talking about DavidCronenberg, why should I assume
it's something more personal tome, while people who are
interested?
That is kind of like more of anissue of things being about me.
I mean, in some I will saymaybe one good point she made is
how people could be certainlyinterested in just hearing me
talk and hearing my thoughtsabout movies, even if they may
(35:26):
not be interested in Cronenberg.
But then what did feelirritating is I think we did
have some talks going on toolong and maybe it was me being
too intense about my anxiety andthinking of who to start and
who to reach out.
I have another friend from thepast who's like another
(35:47):
friendship I have really goingon now, who I reconnected with
and became closer friends withthan I was in elementary school.
But I had some good interactionswith her then and it turned out
like her mom was also like areal big fan of David
(36:09):
Cronenberg's the Fly and Iwasn't clear if she was aware of
my podcast when we alreadytalked with her and when we had
a connection so I'm not going tosay last name, gabe, but maybe
I'll say my friend from the past, hayden, and her mom and when
we were having dinner with herhusband before my podcast was
(36:33):
officially all out yet, and whenwe were letting Hayden's mom
know the certain movies DavidCronenberg had done and the one
One to Fly, which was one thatHayden's mom was a big fan of as
kind of like many other peopleare actually.
(36:54):
So I felt like that would bekind of a good podcast episode
for her to kind of listen to.
And I think because I guess Iwas and I don't think it was
till like the next day I textedHayden's mom about me having the
(37:17):
review of the Fly podcastepisode when I was just kind of
feeling so worn out andirritated from my therapist and
there was going to be goodquestion on what would happen to
Hayden's mom and she did.
Let me know how I didn'trealize you have that episode,
how can I access it?
(37:39):
And I sent her both the one onSpotify and she was so glad to
have that.
So that was a case of me itturned out not having reached
out enough after all, and to becareful about making sure that
it might in fact be the storythat I haven't reached out
(37:59):
enough, out enough, rather thanmaybe having the assumption that
I've reached out too much,really, like you may assume from
somebody with autism really,which I think was kind of the
bigger point that I was tryingto get to, Gabe with the restore
yeah, that's interestingbecause there are assumptions
(38:20):
that other people can make aboutyou.
Gabriel Nathan (38:23):
And then there's also assumptions that you can
make about you due to anxiety orinsecurity.
Like, ooh, maybe I said toomuch.
Or maybe I even heard you inthis conversation like, well, I
might have gone on too longabout that, or you know, we're
all doing that stuff in ourminds.
I think neurotypical people doit as well.
(38:44):
I constantly have this thing inmy own mind, like did you say
the right thing?
Did you make a mistake here?
Did you piss this person off?
So we're always, I think,making those assumptions and
judgments about ourselves thesame way other people are.
I think that's something thatyou and I have in common for
(39:06):
sure.
Reed Smith (39:08):
Yeah.
Gabriel Nathan (39:13):
So, Reed, as we prepare to close the episode, I
want you to let people know alittle bit about your podcast
and where they can find it.
Reed Smith (39:24):
So it can be found, I think, right now on Spotify,
podbean and Apple iTunes, and Idon't know if anybody uses those
.
I don't know if I should sendit to other places.
And is there anything more,gabe, you want to say about the
(39:45):
specifics or like what peoplecan do to support it?
Is that part of also whatyou're?
Gabriel Nathan (39:50):
Absolutely.
And the name.
Reed Smith (39:52):
So the name sorry, Cinema on the Spectrum is the
name, sorry, didn't let that addup sooner.
And so, yeah, you can type incinema on the spectrum on either
Spotify, Apple, uh, iTunes orlook for it on Podbean.
(40:13):
There's also, um a Facebookpage that I specifically created
called cinema on the spectrum,where I post about the movies.
I've movies.
I have a fair number offollowers.
I have been disappointed,though I'm afraid to say, that I
haven't gotten more comments orfeedback on more particular
(40:33):
episodes or messages from emailanybody, and they can email me
on specifically on my podcastaccount, cinemaonthespectrum at
gmailcom.
I'm really happy to hearthoughts and I've got my own
Instagram account calledsimonthespectrum Instagram,
(40:54):
where you can follow updates onthere and discover when new
episodes have dropped and makecomments on.
If you're somebody who's madethe start to listen for maybe
there was a particular episodeyou want to start listening to
If you are a particular fan of aparticular movie, as kind of
Hayden's mom was a particularfan of the Fly, maybe you want
(41:16):
to go ahead and listen to that.
Or you may just kind of want tohear our stories from what we
did from the very beginning ofreviewing David Cronenberg's
first films, and you're welcometo kind of like watch the movies
before listening to the podcast.
You're also welcome to notwatch the movies because you may
(41:40):
enjoy listening to the podcastmore.
I showed, for example, myparents David Cronenberg's first
movie.
I know my mom especially hatedit his first movie but really
enjoyed hearing me and Michaeltalk about his movie.
Gabriel Nathan (41:56):
Yeah, and of course, a podcast episode about
a film is going to be verydifferent than the film itself,
and so you never know, you maylove the podcast episode and
hate the film, or vice versa.
And about I just want to sayabout being disappointed about
lack of comments or feedback.
That's also something you and Ihave in common, and I get very
(42:17):
impatient with creative projectsthat I'm involved in and I want
eyes and ears on the thingsthat I do, this podcast included
, and it's frustrating, but thereality is that things take time
to grow.
It's like buying a seed andbeing like why the hell aren't
(42:39):
you a plant, yet it has to grow.
It takes time, so that'simportant for me to remember too
.
I have two more things, reed,before we go.
The first is they're bothquestions.
Have you seen the animated showon PBS called Carl the
(43:01):
Collector?
Reed Smith (43:03):
No, I haven't, what about it?
Gabe Carl, the Collector, is no, I haven't, what about it.
Gabriel Nathan (43:04):
Gabe Carl the Collector is.
I'm in love with this show andit is an animated show.
It's for children, but I watchit, my wife and I watch it, my
kids watch it with us.
Sometimes, when they're notthere, we watch it ourselves.
And it is about a raccoon withautism and he has different
(43:25):
collections of things bottlecaps, marbles, remote controls
and the show.
It's brand new on PBS Kids.
This is not a paid sponsorship.
I just love the show and it is,in my opinion, it's such a
beautiful, wonderful way to showwhat autism spectrum disorders
(43:46):
can be like.
There's one episode inparticular where Carl invites
his friends over to watch thesuper blue moon.
It's this rare event every 10years and he has this schedule
of how he wants the night to goevery 10 years and he has this
schedule of how he wants thenight to go and things start
happening and the scheduledoesn't happen exactly the way
(44:09):
Carl wants and he gets veryfrustrated and very upset and
his mom helps him calm down andjust enjoy the night for what it
is.
But it's hard for him becausehe really wants things to go his
way.
It's hard for him because hereally wants things to go his
way.
And there's another episodewhere his friend falls and hurts
her knee and he freezes becausehe doesn't know how to react.
(44:34):
And his friend gets very upsetwith him.
She's like why didn't Carl say,are you okay?
Like anyone else would?
But Carl got so locked up inhis own head that he just didn't
react the right way.
The right way.
But anyway, it's a wonderfulshow.
It's on PBS Kids.
The creator of it actuallylives in Narberth, so it's like
(44:57):
a local thing too.
So it's just kind of neat.
I think you should check it out.
Reed Smith (45:02):
Okay, well, maybe I will check that out at some
point.
Well, well, maybe I will checkthat out at some point.
Well, I also, I guess, Gabe, Ialso just realized something too
.
Before we get to your otherquestion, I don't know if I'm
spoiling things too much ahead,but I mentioned to you before
coming back onto C87 RecoveryDiaries, maybe when I have the
(45:23):
film done or when it's likecloser to being done, and I
think I don't know if one thingI'll do by the time I get to
that next podcasting session isto see at least one or two
episodes of that show and maybekind of talk with you a little
bit about that as part of thesequel to our next podcast, et
(45:46):
cetera, and what to have on andyou will be back, reed, that's
for sure.
Gabriel Nathan (45:52):
And the last question that I have for you is
and I was watching the film thatwe made together with Glenn at
Fresh Fly's old location.
I was watching that thismorning with my wife just to
re-familiarize myself with it,and I think I actually asked you
this question in the film andthis was what was it eight years
(46:16):
ago.
So I'm curious to see if youranswer has changed.
The question that I asked youis if you had to give one
takeaway to people, what'ssomething that you want people
to know about you as someone wholives with autism?
Reed Smith (46:38):
Well, I think one thing, Gabe, this leads us to
another big conversation I thinkI do really kind of like want
to touch on, as you asked, thatparticular question.
We talked very extensively kindof about David and Arrowhead
(47:01):
Camp in the past, kind of aboutDavid and Arrowhead camp in the
past.
But one friendship that wasreally also complicated, that
lasted longer than David, that Ikind of talk a lot of different
feelings about in the film, ismy friendship with a guy named
Josh, and one of the things thatI felt a lot about what this
(47:25):
film is kind of partly about iswhat it can be like, and I mean,
maybe this could be applied toDavid too.
But one particular thing aboutJosh that I do kind of like want
to touch on, I think to somedegree, is how I.
I think to some degree is how Ithere was a lot of different
(47:48):
complications and difficultiesbetween that particular
friendship, even as there's thistheme, I think also of me
having autism.
That may have had an impact insome other way, but because also
Josh had such a was also such acomplicated guy who also had
some other complicatedrelationships too.
There are other people withsimilar and different stories
(48:09):
that had an impact.
I touch a little bit somethings about my friend justin in
that film and the fact that heuh had his own complicated story
with josh, while he's notsomebody with autism and I
sometimes have had my questionsif other things could have also
(48:30):
been impacted there in somelevel, like the fact that Justin
was the only actually Asian guyin our second grade class and I
don't know if it was true inschool and how he was kind of
impacted, um, how he had to alsotake Japanese classes uh in the
(48:51):
weekend and how that all mighthave impacted things.
And uh, and there was anotherguy who was uh less friendly
with me as I talk a little bitbit about my film in the
particulars of that than Justin.
(49:11):
Uh another guy, um, whose namemaybe I just kind of uh won't
entirely mention, but whose uhmother uh did kind of like go,
whose parents got divorced.
After it turned out his motherwas a lesbian and was with
another woman and I sometimeshave had my questions on how
(49:34):
that all impacted hisrelationship with Josh too.
So there's just a lot ofdifferent stories out there that
could contain differentinsecurities, like I think one
way I had of looking at it islike the whole different stories
going on of the Spider-Mancharacter of Miles Morales, and
there's a lot that emphasizeshim as Spider-Man, particularly
(49:57):
in the Spider-Man Into theSpider-Verse movie, and they
don't really touch on race inparticular, while there's also a
really good video game thatdoes, I think, touch a lot more
on the fact that Miles Moralesis from Heart of the Moon and
things like that, while alsohaving him being Spider-Man
being a big theme.
So I don't know, Gabe, if thatall makes sense to answer your
(50:18):
question, even though maybe itanswers the question for myself
better in my head.
Gabriel Nathan (50:24):
Interesting though maybe it answers the
question for myself better in myhead and interesting thinking
about it.
But that's okay.
I mean, that's part of thereason why we have these
conversations, because it helpsus figure things out about
ourselves, and I'm just sograteful that you wanted to
spend some time and talk with usand I'm very excited for your
film to be finished, to see itand enjoy it and to bring you
back on the show to talk aboutit.
Reed Smith (50:45):
Thank you so much, Gabe.
Gabriel Nathan (50:47):
Thank you and take care.
Thank you again for joining usin conversation today.
It's beautiful to see theprogression of our contributors.
It is always such a pleasure tocatch up with Reed Smith.
He's a filmmaker with autismand he has his own podcast.
It is called Cinema on theSpectrum.
He's a remarkable young mandoing incredible things and
(51:11):
proud to know him and have himas our guest here on Recovery
Diaries in depth and to sharehim and his work with you.
Before we leave you, we want toremind you to check out our
website, recoverydiariesorg.
There, like this podcast,you'll find additional stories,
videos and content about mentalhealth, empowerment and change.
(51:32):
We look forward to continuingto grow our community.
Thank you so much for being apart of it.
We wouldn't be here without you.
Be sure to join our mailinglist so you never miss a podcast
episode, essay or film.
I'm Gabe Nathan.
Until next time, take good care.
Hello, this is Recovery Diaries In-Depth.
I'm your host, Gabe Nathan.
Thanks so much for joining us.
We're very happy to have youhere.
I'm so excited to have as ourguest today Reed Smith.
Way back when, reed was acamper of mine at a creative
arts day camp, later in his lifehe did an internship with Fresh
(00:21):
Fly Films and Glenn Holsten,who makes all of our documentary
films here at Recovery Diaries.
He's making a film of his ownright now that's in
post-production, about his lifemaintaining friendships, and he
has a podcast called Cinema onthe Spectrum.
Each week we'll bring you aRecovery Diaries contributor
folks who have shared theirmental health journey with us
(00:42):
through essay or video format.
We want to see where they arein their mental health journey
since initially being publishedon our website.
Our goal is to continuesupporting our diverse community
by having conversations here onour podcast to follow up and
see what has shifted, what haschanged and what new things have
emerged.
We're so happy to have youalong for this journey.
(01:04):
We want to remind you to followour show for new and back
episodes at recoverydiariesorg.
There, like the podcast, you'llfind stories of mental health,
empowerment and change.
You can also sign up for ourmailing list there so you never
miss a new podcast episode,essay or film, and you can find
this podcast pretty muchanywhere you get your podcasts.
(01:24):
We appreciate your comments andfeedback about our show.
It helps us improve, makechanges and grow.
And, of course, make sure tolike, share and subscribe.
Reed Smith, thank you so muchfor being on Recovery Diaries
In-Depth.
It's so great to see you.
Reed Smith (01:45):
Great to be here, Gabe.
Thank you so much for having me.
Gabriel Nathan (01:49):
Well, it's a delight and I you know.
Rather than me introducing you,I'd like you to introduce
yourself to us in the way thatyou see fit.
Who are you?
Reed Smith (02:09):
to us in the way that you see fit.
Who are you?
Well, right now, I'm somebodywho was a past participant in
OC87 Recovery Diaries, when itused to just kind of show to
show videos and not its podcasts.
In 2017, I did an interview withthe filmmaker who has often
(02:32):
done videos on OC87 RecoveryDiaries, glenn Holston, talking
basically about a screenplaythat I haven't really worked on
a long time but felt like a coolthing for me to do.
That really meant something tome at the time, and I was doing
it while I was working ongetting into certain film
(02:57):
graduate schools, and so a bigdevelopment that's happened to
me since doing that RecoveryDiaries film, which is all still
worth seeing is I have gotten,in fact, into film graduate
school.
I was actually a part of theSchool of Visual Arts social
documentary program, which I'mafraid is not there anymore, but
(03:19):
I had two wonderful yearsreally working there and made
some good films that I'm proudof, and then, after I graduated
from that program, there is afilm I'm working on right now.
I now am one of the hosts of apodcast known as Cinema on the
(03:42):
Spectrum known as Cinema on theSpectrum where me and another
friend who has autism like me,discuss certain movies from
certain directors, and westarted with a focus on David
Cronenberg and our final DavidCronenberg film just came out
last Thursday, where we reviewedhis last film, and that was all
(04:04):
been quite an interestingexperience that I'll be happy to
talk more about.
Gabriel Nathan (04:09):
Wow.
So you have a lot going on.
You are a writer, you aremaking and producing and
directing films.
You've studied filmmaking, youhave a podcast and there's a lot
of ground to cover Reed, and Ijust want to start with
(04:29):
something related to the filmthat you're making now about
maintaining friendships.
Now, that's what I want totouch on.
You're someone who lives withautism.
Reed Smith (04:41):
Yeah autism?
Gabriel Nathan (04:48):
Yeah, and I'm curious to know if you believe
that maintaining friendships assomeone with autism presents
unique or different challenges.
Reed Smith (04:54):
Well, I think there are certain ways that maybe
autism has affected my abilityto make friends that I don't
kind of put denial into.
Sometimes I'm a little bitconfused on how it's all
affected and as I look at whatI've done, as I've kind of come
(05:21):
to the latest cut right now ofmy film and as it's all getting
done, while I specifically statethat I have autism, I'm not
really sure there's anythingquite I touched on in the film
that only really maybe theaudience can speculate.
(05:42):
And I mean you'll see a littlebit more of what I'm talking
about hopefully when the film isdone where it specifically kind
of altogether states that thisstruggle specifically happened
because I have autism.
And well, and there's manythings about the definition and
(06:02):
what it all means.
That I think remainscomplicated.
I think another thing, thattheme I really touch on my film
is the big, certain similaritiesI may have with people who
don't have autism but also thepeople who have certain
differences and the similaritiesand the differences between me
(06:22):
and other people with autism.
That's all real kind of likecomplicated to understand.
I think there are some who kindof like had maybe it's because
they have more severe autism orbecause they've had other
struggles, who may have kind ofhad a lot things a lot worse
(06:45):
when it came to like dealingwith that struggle involving
friendship.
The woman who was the head ofthe autistic support program in
my elementary school which Iwasn't really a part of until
fourth grade and was just therefrom fourth grade to fifth grade
before I graduated she reallyasserted that she knows a lot of
(07:09):
autistic people who have a lotof friends and maybe some of
them do it in a different wayand some have different feelings
and there's different thingsthat all different things can
mean.
I mean, I think I myself andsomebody who kind of keeps going
through now different feelingsnow, as I did in the past, of
(07:31):
like really wanting to reach outwith people and to have a lot
of good experiences and makingconnections, but also then
there's that other part of methat's kind of like what's my
damn time to just kind of relaxa little bit by myself before
kind of then getting back outthere and being a little bit
(07:55):
more social.
So there's a lot of differentfeelings that vary.
I mean, I think one thing Igive a vague hint about in the
film but don't touch on as thetheme directly, that one thing
that was recurrently true of mein kind of like preschool and
elementary school is that, likemost of those days on the
(08:19):
playground, I did just kind ofspend time by myself and I think
there was a lot of differentvariety of reasons for that and
I probably did way too much ofwhile.
I think I'd really utilize thetime to think, as I think now
(08:47):
who I've not contacted while itseems kind of worth contacting
in recess could be all a goodtime to contact them and talk
with them.
I think there still would besome days where at recess where,
if I felt like I had enoughsocial time, maybe I just kind
of want a certain time to justkind of relax and think about
(09:08):
things for myself and maybe, asI've come to the thoughts, maybe
I'll be able to ready tointeract some more, which I
think I go through somedifferent feelings when I've had
intense conversation withsomebody, whether it is through
a friend or a family member.
Gabriel Nathan (09:25):
It's really interesting and I want to talk a
little bit more about likeelementary and middle school.
Um, I'm uh, when I was inelementary and middle school, I
was bullied um a lot, um forlots of different reasons, and I
think that that made me want towithdraw and be more in my own
(09:50):
head, because I think I was alittle bit afraid of taking a
risk and being vulnerable andinteracting with someone and
maybe they would hurt meemotionally or physically or
whatever.
And I'm wondering if that wastrue for you, did you experience
any bullying when you were likeelementary and middle school
(10:11):
age and how did that affect you?
Reed Smith (10:14):
Well, gabe, so that is a big thing that I really
touch on.
I really do.
Kind of bullying is quite thebig theme to my film, of
bullying is quite the big themeto my film.
And I don't know entirely, gabe, what your story is, but here's
all the complications in mystories.
Two of my bullies were actuallyat different points, I think my
(10:40):
closest friend, and they'redifferent and complicated in
different ways.
So, Gabe, I say I have a friendnamed David, but I don't think I
really touched on how, uh, thevery first day of starting first
grade he's kind of one of thefirst guys we see I saw at the
(11:02):
bus stop and we kind of allconnected with the family and we
all turned out to be in thesame class and he was all my
first friend started out and Ithink there was many ways in
that first grade year we wouldhave a good friendship, as I
talked about in the film, how webonded over this Spider-Man
video game that people looknostalgically on over the years
(11:25):
that came out in 2000.
That was kind of the first 3Dinteractive world and I think
both me, my mom and cousin werejust talking about yesterday, if
we really want to include ascene about how happy David and
I were bonding over theSpider-Man video game and I
(11:47):
can't remember even exactly infirst grade how much I
remembered having at least somebad experiences with him.
I'm not sure if he did quitethe same real mean things to the
same extent that he did withinthe Arrowhead camp that we were
(12:11):
a part of right after firstgrade.
That I talk about to the filmto some degree and I don't touch
on, I think, everything thathappened with our bullying
experience.
But one thing I do really talkabout in the film is kind of
like when, after we reallybonded over that Spider-Man
(12:35):
video game I'm not sure if hedid the language exactly, but we
have a kind of like play acting, kind of rehearsal of the scene
of how he did that saidsomething bad about it I just
(13:03):
sort of ended up saying that hethe experiences of maybe times
he was mean to me when we werein first grade versus Arrowhead
Camp.
I can say for sure that I dothink Arrowhead Camp did sort of
mark this contrasting change ofus, kind of like really losing
(13:24):
something that was good to ourfriendship and what one of the
big developments that happenedthe film is.
I did in fact, uh interviewdavid actually really, and
talked with him all about theseexperiences that he had and
while he didn't remember doingthis, he believed he did it and
was sorry about it, and he didum think that that while he was
(13:51):
seeing himself as somebody wholikes so him feeling like he
shouldn't either, and that,basically, was somewhat my
(14:16):
analysis going in, because Ididn't really touch on this in
my film, this in my film Iremembered uh, uh, another
friend that him and I mutuallyhad and us kind of like all
bonding over these couple ofdifferent spider-man video games
that these two had, that wereall kind of like, uh, a part of
(14:38):
a franchise, and remembering allthe kind of like the good times
of that.
And so I think maybe not havingthat friend, amongst other
various reasons, and there wasjust a lot about just Arrowhead
camp.
I haven't even really kind oftouched on on my film.
That I think is really awful initself.
(15:04):
There were these counselorsthere who said if you guys uh
don't do this, we will uh dressyou guys up as girls.
There were guys, there werecounselors who did things like
uh threaten us if we didn't playthis game right, they would put
us into the girl scout area.
(15:26):
So just a lot of clearly Idon't know how it's doing today
A lot of clearly anti-trans,anti-guys being friends with
girls.
I don't know just even realhomophobic issues going on there
that I don't know how it'sbeing looked on with how much
(15:47):
our time and culture has changedreally.
So there's a lot we've kind oftouched on and got into Gabe
with all that.
Gabriel Nathan (15:54):
Yeah, but well, hopefully the atmosphere at that
camp is a lot different now andthank you for sharing those
experiences, reed.
It's really hard when a friendkind of turns on you, you know
you think they're one thing, andthen whether they're influenced
by their peers or other kindsof external pressures, and then
(16:20):
that can be really hard.
But I think it's also reallycool that you interviewed David
later as an adult, and I've hadthis experience with two bullies
Dan and Alex were bullies to mewhen I was younger and then I
became very good friends withone of them late in life and
it's just, it's a nice reminderthat people can change, that
(16:44):
people have the capacity tochange for the better.
So thanks for pointing that outtoo.
I want to transition to kind oftalking about movies.
I would love to know is there afilm that you particularly love
(17:07):
where autism plays a role inthe film?
Maybe the main character issomeone who has autism spectrum
disorder or someone else in thefilm, or it's what the film is
about.
Can?
Reed Smith (17:27):
you think of any film like that?
Well, there are.
I will say things about.
There are a lot of things aboutRain man, Gabe.
I will say that I do love Idon't.
I do think, as we were talkingabout similarities and
differences before, who DustinHoffman is is very different
from who I am.
(17:48):
I think there's a lot that saysthat.
I guess I hint at somewhat inthe film about how the
definition of autism changes allthe time and what it means,
(18:13):
means.
But I think to get at maybe thecharacter who I feel kind of
the most alike, who at leastfelt very strongly he had autism
, was the character that uh andI'm funny spoiling this in the
tv show parenthood, when RayRomano's character did some
certain readings after he hadmentor of uh, been a mentor
(18:37):
worked in this photography shopand he was looking out for
somebody who had autism.
And when, uh, some, and whenthings didn't go wrong with the
schedule and this kid withautism started to act badly
about it, then Max, the kid withautism's father, would give Ray
(18:59):
Romano's character and RayRomano's character's name is
Hank a book about autism andwhen he read the book he really
felt very strongly that autismdid kind of really reflected who
(19:21):
he was and that really made himon a mission to kind of think
about what he can do to make hislife better.
And while I had always kind ofbeen seen at least maybe even
before fourth grade when I was apart of the autistic support
(19:43):
program at least as having alearning disability of some sort
, there were, I think, differentmoments.
Maybe it was in ninth gradewhen I actually thought about
another friendship who's alittle bit happens, a little bit
more recurrently going on inthe film than David, Josh, and
(20:04):
about the impacts of thatrelationship.
That always kind of made mekind of think a lot about what
different changes I guess I canalways make into my life.
And I guess I do always haveeven the questions whether it's
something to do with my personalexperiences and I do think, as
you say, Gabe, maybe like thebullying is playing a role
(20:29):
whether it's the bullyingexperiences I've had with Josh
and David, certain differentways that kind of like lead me
to think about just kind of whatto change, about who I am and
(20:51):
what to do better.
And there are certainly otherthings going on in Hank's life.
Well, I do think another bigpart of what did happen within
Hank's story and why he wasn'tdiagnosed with autism not
knowing he had autism sooner ishow much that kind of caused all
(21:12):
sorts of tensions between himand the wife he was divorced,
already have autism and how thathe felt that led for their
difficulties in communication tonot always have the best
relationship, and it is possiblethat did kind of all impact me
(21:43):
in certain other relations, allimpact me in certain other
relations, and I guess, likethere's certain things within my
film that were went in anddidn't go in.
But I did kind of talk a littlebit specifically that in one
interview that just kind ofinterview segments that was cut
out of the film, and somebodyelse I interviewed, Wooter he
(22:04):
did really feel like autism didkind of like impact our
relationship in some ways and hecouldn't fit.
He didn't really say though,and I think basically what we
concluded there from our talkswas basically how, like, since
(22:25):
it may have impacted my abilityto interact as well as maybe I
could have, maybe I could haveif it didn't have the same type
of impact and I guess it'salways hard to say with the
what-if questions Maybe him andI would have done a lot more
(22:46):
hanging out outside of school,even though one of the things we
do talk about in my interviewswith films with him is how we
did have good lunch chats.
But Wooter did talk about howthere were a lot of guys he
would be friendly with at lunchwho he wouldn't hang out with
outside of school.
Really Right.
Gabriel Nathan (23:08):
How do you think , you know, when you look at
your life and you know we'vetalked about your early years
and then, kind of, you know,when I first knew you, I would
say you were 15, 14, 15, around.
Then you were a student of mineat a children's performing arts
(23:30):
center and so I knew you aroundthat age, kind of adolescence,
and then you had this internshipat Fresh Fly, the studio that
makes our films with Glenn, Ithink you were in your early 20s
, Mm-hmm, and now you're 30.
So, if you look through thiswhole span of your life, how do
(23:57):
you feel you've changed in termsof your mental health?
You know, have you had periodsof anxiety or depression
throughout your life?
Um, how do you think?
How do you think you've changedin that respect?
Reed Smith (24:16):
Well, I think there definitely have been certainly a
lot of, um, intense momentswhere I've kind of like been
intensely kind of like unhappyabout certain different things.
I've not really been kind oflike diagnosed with being
(24:40):
depressed in life in a certainclinical sense, but I mean, and
I think there's even some, allthese different recent periods I
go through, of feeling unhappyabout certain different things.
I'm not living, at least atthis point in my life, quite a
(25:05):
fairly a fairly a lot moreflexible schedule than a lot of
other people are, which can haveits own challenges to it, and I
keep trying to think throughwhat to do best within my
schedule.
There had been another period,like when I was a part of the
Social Documentary School ofVisual Arts, particularly in the
(25:28):
very first year of the twoyears I was there when it just
in this first semester, whenthings were just kind of like so
incredibly intense and I justkind of like I think it was that
way for everybody, but Icertainly did feel like I didn't
have a whole lot of time forother things but to kind of work
(25:50):
on my classes in my films and,um, uh, and I describe myself as
kind of like just making thingsas the last second through
messages, by dodging the bullet,which was like a lot of how I
think, like certain other peopledo feel about their graduate
(26:14):
experience, even though and insome ways I still do look back
fondly of those experiences.
Sometimes there's somequestions there if there's more
I could have done with it, morethat could have happened, and a
lot of different people, I think, have their different thoughts
on their graduate experience andI've had my questions on how I
(26:37):
feel in comparison with both.
I think people who did graduatethe social documentary
experience, both before me,people who were in my program,
people who did manage to getthrough the program after I
graduated, before it did allclose down, and I think there
(27:06):
have been people who may nothave actually had, uh, quite the
same success with things, bothin terms of kind of like what I
have made it happen within mymaking, keeping friends film and
with my and with what I'vegotten done with my podcast and
(27:26):
people just kind of moved awayfrom films from their life
altogether.
But there are some people who Ido think have had a lot more of
a real, more of a kind of like,more of a real kind of like
ongoing job and more.
I don't of like ongoing job andmore I don't know if it is even
(27:49):
more serious grunt work andkind of working in films.
I mean and it's questionable ifthey're glad to be doing that
to still kind of focus on theprojects they're passionate
about.
I mean, I certainly have kindof been more fortunate than
(28:09):
certain other people have beento kind of like have a family
who's been able to back me andkind of focusing on things that
I've been passionate about interms of the podcast and the
film, even though there is still, like I think, some questions I
still deal with.
Um, I think the podcast isclearly still more my favorite
(28:32):
thing at this point than thefilm.
Well, and I think part of thereason, uh, why I'm not quite as
crazy about the film as I usedto be, is because the as I think
I talked with you before, gabe,at the interviewing part of
things is over and it was greatwith all the different
interviews I've done.
Certainly, I think theinterview with David was
(28:54):
particularly a special bighighlight, especially now it's
time for me to kind of geteverything sorted out, to kind
of work at getting the filmsproduced, but when that's done,
I am thinking about kind of like, uh, having more of a podcast
(29:16):
talking with all sorts ofdifferent people in connection
with my life, since I mean, I'vejust touched on certain things.
I really did not do certainthings in my film, like I said
before, like touch on any ofthose things about Arrowhead
Camp that I did with just mytalk with you, gabe.
So I do wonder just kind of whatelse more can I do with another
(29:38):
podcast entirely?
I mean, I think it could take alot of work and there could be
a lot of deep struggles,anxieties take a lot of work and
there could be a lot of deepstruggles, anxieties those can
have along the way, as I thinkI've dealt with a lot of
different points over the yearsbut I think I've managed to make
it through and get someaccomplishments.
I mean, maybe there are somedifferent things that have
(30:02):
failed, um, that even uh, andmaybe I could name it more in
the past than ways I can now.
I mean, I guess maybe one ofthe questions I have as we kind
of touch on the different thingsin the years is if there are
ways in which, kind of like Icould have also reached out, be
friends with certain peoplesooner, that it might just be
(30:26):
too late now, really, I mean.
Gabriel Nathan (30:29):
Oh, it's never too late.
I would say it's never too lateuntil the other person drops
dead, then it's definitely toolate, but until that happens, I
think there's always a chancefor reconnection.
I think there's always a chancefor repair.
And one of the things thatreally strikes me about you,
(30:50):
reid, is how reflective you are.
You really take the time tothink about interactions from
the past, things that you havesaid and done, or just thinking
about the past.
Should I have done this, shouldthis have happened?
Would it have been better thisway?
(31:10):
And I think that's so.
It's a wonderful thing to beable to do, and I think it's
great to do that by yourself,and I also think it's great to
do it with others, and they canbe people in your family or they
can be people from your past,and 20, 30, 40 years can go by,
(31:32):
and it's still, I think, a greatthing to reach out to folks and
just say, hey, I've beenthinking about this thing from
high school, or this interactionthat we had, or this choice
that I made.
You know, what do you thinkabout that?
And I think about also the, thework that you do in terms of
(31:53):
making the film, in terms ofyour podcast.
Um, it's all very connected.
It's it's not just read rightit's Reed and the people he's
working with to make the film.
It's you and your podcast hostand your guests, and you're
(32:15):
always connecting andcollaborating, and I think
there's a myth about people withautism spectrum disorders that
they have a lot of difficultyconnecting and I feel like it's
something you're really good at.
Have you had that experiencewhere you know you've been
(32:40):
confronted with people who makeassumptions about you and your
autism?
Reed Smith (32:45):
I think there's a lot of different questions, of
certain assumptions going on byother people.
I'm trying to even remember thespecifics.
I don't know, gabe, if this isexactly what you're looking for,
but I think there's often a lotof the times I'm meeting with a
certain therapist right now whothere may be some
(33:06):
misunderstandings of, and I'mnot sure if she might be making
too much of an assumption whenit comes to my autism.
I could be wrong about this ornot, but one of the things I
talked about her during atherapy session, for example
(33:28):
again, Gabe, I'm not sure ifthis is a good example, but,
like when it came to working onmy podcast, I really kind of put
out the question am I doingenough to kind of like, you know
, reach out to people?
And she didn't seem to have areal kind of like clear answer,
(33:51):
whether or not or not.
She seemed to kind of focusmore on this question on, um, uh
, well, I think I don't know Ican't remember exactly what she
did; If she already felt I didtoo much of that, because that
is kind of what somebody withautism would be most likely to
do, or just kind of like if Iwas too afraid of being tense,
(34:14):
of getting kind of like rejected, as somebody who has autism
does.
And I mean another questionthey had, I guess, like formed
on who I'm most afraid of beingrejected by, and I would pose
her the question to her wouldthose be people who are
(34:36):
interested in David Cronenbergand people who are interested?
And she said the people who areinterested in David Cronenberg
and like, well, why would Iworry quite as much about the
people who aren't interested,when if they're not interested
in that podcast, that I wouldn'tbe involved with that?
(35:03):
Like we're talking about DavidCronenberg, why should I assume
it's something more personal tome, while people who are
interested?
That is kind of like more of anissue of things being about me.
I mean, in some I will saymaybe one good point she made is
how people could be certainlyinterested in just hearing me
talk and hearing my thoughtsabout movies, even if they may
(35:26):
not be interested in Cronenberg.
But then what did feelirritating is I think we did
have some talks going on toolong and maybe it was me being
too intense about my anxiety andthinking of who to start and
who to reach out.
I have another friend from thepast who's like another
(35:47):
friendship I have really goingon now, who I reconnected with
and became closer friends withthan I was in elementary school.
But I had some good interactionswith her then and it turned out
like her mom was also like areal big fan of David
(36:09):
Cronenberg's the Fly and Iwasn't clear if she was aware of
my podcast when we alreadytalked with her and when we had
a connection so I'm not going tosay last name, gabe, but maybe
I'll say my friend from the past, hayden, and her mom and when
we were having dinner with herhusband before my podcast was
(36:33):
officially all out yet, and whenwe were letting Hayden's mom
know the certain movies DavidCronenberg had done and the one
One to Fly, which was one thatHayden's mom was a big fan of as
kind of like many other peopleare actually.
(36:54):
So I felt like that would bekind of a good podcast episode
for her to kind of listen to.
And I think because I guess Iwas and I don't think it was
till like the next day I textedHayden's mom about me having the
(37:17):
review of the Fly podcastepisode when I was just kind of
feeling so worn out andirritated from my therapist and
there was going to be goodquestion on what would happen to
Hayden's mom and she did.
Let me know how I didn'trealize you have that episode,
how can I access it?
(37:39):
And I sent her both the one onSpotify and she was so glad to
have that.
So that was a case of me itturned out not having reached
out enough after all, and to becareful about making sure that
it might in fact be the storythat I haven't reached out
(37:59):
enough, out enough, rather thanmaybe having the assumption that
I've reached out too much,really, like you may assume from
somebody with autism really,which I think was kind of the
bigger point that I was tryingto get to, Gabe with the restore
yeah, that's interestingbecause there are assumptions
(38:20):
that other people can make aboutyou.
Gabriel Nathan (38:23):
And then there's also assumptions that you can
make about you due to anxiety orinsecurity.
Like, ooh, maybe I said toomuch.
Or maybe I even heard you inthis conversation like, well, I
might have gone on too longabout that, or you know, we're
all doing that stuff in ourminds.
I think neurotypical people doit as well.
(38:44):
I constantly have this thing inmy own mind, like did you say
the right thing?
Did you make a mistake here?
Did you piss this person off?
So we're always, I think,making those assumptions and
judgments about ourselves thesame way other people are.
I think that's something thatyou and I have in common for
(39:06):
sure.
Reed Smith (39:08):
Yeah.
Gabriel Nathan (39:13):
So, Reed, as we prepare to close the episode, I
want you to let people know alittle bit about your podcast
and where they can find it.
Reed Smith (39:24):
So it can be found, I think, right now on Spotify,
podbean and Apple iTunes, and Idon't know if anybody uses those
.
I don't know if I should sendit to other places.
And is there anything more,gabe, you want to say about the
(39:45):
specifics or like what peoplecan do to support it?
Is that part of also whatyou're?
Gabriel Nathan (39:50):
Absolutely.
And the name.
Reed Smith (39:52):
So the name sorry, Cinema on the Spectrum is the
name, sorry, didn't let that addup sooner.
And so, yeah, you can type incinema on the spectrum on either
Spotify, Apple, uh, iTunes orlook for it on Podbean.
(40:13):
There's also, um a Facebookpage that I specifically created
called cinema on the spectrum,where I post about the movies.
I've movies.
I have a fair number offollowers.
I have been disappointed,though I'm afraid to say, that I
haven't gotten more comments orfeedback on more particular
(40:33):
episodes or messages from emailanybody, and they can email me
on specifically on my podcastaccount, cinemaonthespectrum at
gmailcom.
I'm really happy to hearthoughts and I've got my own
Instagram account calledsimonthespectrum Instagram,
(40:54):
where you can follow updates onthere and discover when new
episodes have dropped and makecomments on.
If you're somebody who's madethe start to listen for maybe
there was a particular episodeyou want to start listening to
If you are a particular fan of aparticular movie, as kind of
Hayden's mom was a particularfan of the Fly, maybe you want
(41:16):
to go ahead and listen to that.
Or you may just kind of want tohear our stories from what we
did from the very beginning ofreviewing David Cronenberg's
first films, and you're welcometo kind of like watch the movies
before listening to the podcast.
You're also welcome to notwatch the movies because you may
(41:40):
enjoy listening to the podcastmore.
I showed, for example, myparents David Cronenberg's first
movie.
I know my mom especially hatedit his first movie but really
enjoyed hearing me and Michaeltalk about his movie.
Gabriel Nathan (41:56):
Yeah, and of course, a podcast episode about
a film is going to be verydifferent than the film itself,
and so you never know, you maylove the podcast episode and
hate the film, or vice versa.
And about I just want to sayabout being disappointed about
lack of comments or feedback.
That's also something you and Ihave in common, and I get very
(42:17):
impatient with creative projectsthat I'm involved in and I want
eyes and ears on the thingsthat I do, this podcast included
, and it's frustrating, but thereality is that things take time
to grow.
It's like buying a seed andbeing like why the hell aren't
(42:39):
you a plant, yet it has to grow.
It takes time, so that'simportant for me to remember too
.
I have two more things, reed,before we go.
The first is they're bothquestions.
Have you seen the animated showon PBS called Carl the
(43:01):
Collector?
Reed Smith (43:03):
No, I haven't, what about it?
Gabe Carl, the Collector, is no, I haven't, what about it.
Gabriel Nathan (43:04):
Gabe Carl the Collector is.
I'm in love with this show andit is an animated show.
It's for children, but I watchit, my wife and I watch it, my
kids watch it with us.
Sometimes, when they're notthere, we watch it ourselves.
And it is about a raccoon withautism and he has different
(43:25):
collections of things bottlecaps, marbles, remote controls
and the show.
It's brand new on PBS Kids.
This is not a paid sponsorship.
I just love the show and it is,in my opinion, it's such a
beautiful, wonderful way to showwhat autism spectrum disorders
(43:46):
can be like.
There's one episode inparticular where Carl invites
his friends over to watch thesuper blue moon.
It's this rare event every 10years and he has this schedule
of how he wants the night to goevery 10 years and he has this
schedule of how he wants thenight to go and things start
happening and the scheduledoesn't happen exactly the way
(44:09):
Carl wants and he gets veryfrustrated and very upset and
his mom helps him calm down andjust enjoy the night for what it
is.
But it's hard for him becausehe really wants things to go his
way.
It's hard for him because hereally wants things to go his
way.
And there's another episodewhere his friend falls and hurts
her knee and he freezes becausehe doesn't know how to react.
(44:34):
And his friend gets very upsetwith him.
She's like why didn't Carl say,are you okay?
Like anyone else would?
But Carl got so locked up inhis own head that he just didn't
react the right way.
The right way.
But anyway, it's a wonderfulshow.
It's on PBS Kids.
The creator of it actuallylives in Narberth, so it's like
(44:57):
a local thing too.
So it's just kind of neat.
I think you should check it out.
Reed Smith (45:02):
Okay, well, maybe I will check that out at some
point.
Well, well, maybe I will checkthat out at some point.
Well, I also, I guess, Gabe, Ialso just realized something too
.
Before we get to your otherquestion, I don't know if I'm
spoiling things too much ahead,but I mentioned to you before
coming back onto C87 RecoveryDiaries, maybe when I have the
(45:23):
film done or when it's likecloser to being done, and I
think I don't know if one thingI'll do by the time I get to
that next podcasting session isto see at least one or two
episodes of that show and maybekind of talk with you a little
bit about that as part of thesequel to our next podcast, et
(45:46):
cetera, and what to have on andyou will be back, reed, that's
for sure.
Gabriel Nathan (45:52):
And the last question that I have for you is
and I was watching the film thatwe made together with Glenn at
Fresh Fly's old location.
I was watching that thismorning with my wife just to
re-familiarize myself with it,and I think I actually asked you
this question in the film andthis was what was it eight years
(46:16):
ago.
So I'm curious to see if youranswer has changed.
The question that I asked youis if you had to give one
takeaway to people, what'ssomething that you want people
to know about you as someone wholives with autism?
Reed Smith (46:38):
Well, I think one thing, Gabe, this leads us to
another big conversation I thinkI do really kind of like want
to touch on, as you asked, thatparticular question.
We talked very extensively kindof about David and Arrowhead
(47:01):
Camp in the past, kind of aboutDavid and Arrowhead camp in the
past.
But one friendship that wasreally also complicated, that
lasted longer than David, that Ikind of talk a lot of different
feelings about in the film, ismy friendship with a guy named
Josh, and one of the things thatI felt a lot about what this
(47:25):
film is kind of partly about iswhat it can be like, and I mean,
maybe this could be applied toDavid too.
But one particular thing aboutJosh that I do kind of like want
to touch on, I think to somedegree, is how I.
I think to some degree is how Ithere was a lot of different
(47:48):
complications and difficultiesbetween that particular
friendship, even as there's thistheme, I think also of me
having autism.
That may have had an impact insome other way, but because also
Josh had such a was also such acomplicated guy who also had
some other complicatedrelationships too.
There are other people withsimilar and different stories
(48:09):
that had an impact.
I touch a little bit somethings about my friend justin in
that film and the fact that heuh had his own complicated story
with josh, while he's notsomebody with autism and I
sometimes have had my questionsif other things could have also
(48:30):
been impacted there in somelevel, like the fact that Justin
was the only actually Asian guyin our second grade class and I
don't know if it was true inschool and how he was kind of
impacted, um, how he had to alsotake Japanese classes uh in the
(48:51):
weekend and how that all mighthave impacted things.
And uh, and there was anotherguy who was uh less friendly
with me as I talk a little bitbit about my film in the
particulars of that than Justin.
(49:11):
Uh another guy, um, whose namemaybe I just kind of uh won't
entirely mention, but whose uhmother uh did kind of like go,
whose parents got divorced.
After it turned out his motherwas a lesbian and was with
another woman and I sometimeshave had my questions on how
(49:34):
that all impacted hisrelationship with Josh too.
So there's just a lot ofdifferent stories out there that
could contain differentinsecurities, like I think one
way I had of looking at it islike the whole different stories
going on of the Spider-Mancharacter of Miles Morales, and
there's a lot that emphasizeshim as Spider-Man, particularly
(49:57):
in the Spider-Man Into theSpider-Verse movie, and they
don't really touch on race inparticular, while there's also a
really good video game thatdoes, I think, touch a lot more
on the fact that Miles Moralesis from Heart of the Moon and
things like that, while alsohaving him being Spider-Man
being a big theme.
So I don't know, Gabe, if thatall makes sense to answer your
(50:18):
question, even though maybe itanswers the question for myself
better in my head.
Gabriel Nathan (50:24):
Interesting though maybe it answers the
question for myself better in myhead and interesting thinking
about it.
But that's okay.
I mean, that's part of thereason why we have these
conversations, because it helpsus figure things out about
ourselves, and I'm just sograteful that you wanted to
spend some time and talk with usand I'm very excited for your
film to be finished, to see itand enjoy it and to bring you
back on the show to talk aboutit.
Reed Smith (50:45):
Thank you so much, Gabe.
Gabriel Nathan (50:47):
Thank you and take care.
Thank you again for joining usin conversation today.
It's beautiful to see theprogression of our contributors.
It is always such a pleasure tocatch up with Reed Smith.
He's a filmmaker with autismand he has his own podcast.
It is called Cinema on theSpectrum.
He's a remarkable young mandoing incredible things and
(51:11):
proud to know him and have himas our guest here on Recovery
Diaries in depth and to sharehim and his work with you.
Before we leave you, we want toremind you to check out our
website, recoverydiariesorg.
There, like this podcast,you'll find additional stories,
videos and content about mentalhealth, empowerment and change.
(51:32):
We look forward to continuingto grow our community.
Thank you so much for being apart of it.
We wouldn't be here without you.
Be sure to join our mailinglist so you never miss a podcast
episode, essay or film.
I'm Gabe Nathan.
Until next time, take good care.
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