January 27, 2025 • 40 mins
What do you do when you've got to record a podcast episode but your guest cancels last minute due to COVID? You interview Chat GPT, of course! Or... maybe it's Chat GPT interviewing Recovery Diaries in Depth's host Gabriel Nathan. Either way, you get a fascinating episode where Gabe fields AI-generated questions about mental health storytelling, advocacy, and suicide prevention. The questions may have come from a bot, but the answers are decidedly human, in-depth, relevant, and may just spark a lifesaving conversation between you and a loved one.
What are some common misperceptions people have about suicide?
What are some early suicide warning signs?
What are some of the biggest threats you see to Americans' mental health in the near future?
How do mental health stories help people?
These are just some of the questions Gabe tackles during this episode. Gabe brings his wealth of experience as a front-line staff member at a locked, inpatient psychiatric hospital, as tireless suicide awareness/prevention advocate, as a writer, editor, creator, and leader of Recovery Diaries, as well as his own lived experience with mental health challenges to create a dynamic, thoroughly human episode. Sure, his voice may get tired as he fields question after question, but you won't get tired as you listen along, enjoy, think, and feel.
Conversations like the ones on this podcast can sometimes be hard, but they're always necessary. If you or someone you know is struggling, please consider visiting www.wannatalkaboutit.com. If you or someone you know is considering suicide, please call, text, or chat 988.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gabriel Nathan (00:01):
Hello, this is Recovery Diaries In Depth.
Each week we'll bring you aRecovery Diaries contributor
folks who have shared theirmental health journey with us
through essay or video format.
We want to see where they arein their mental health journey
since initially being publishedon our website.
Our goal is to continuesupporting our diverse community
by having conversations here onour podcast to follow up and
(00:24):
see what has shifted, what haschanged and what new things have
emerged.
We're so happy to have youalong for this journey.
We want to remind you to followour show for new and back
episodes at recoverydiariesorg.
There, like the podcast, you'llfind stories of mental health,
empowerment and change.
You can also sign up for ourmailing list there so you never
(00:45):
miss a new podcast episode,essay or film, and you can find
this podcast pretty muchanywhere you get your podcasts.
We appreciate your comments andfeedback about our show.
It helps us improve, makechanges and grow and, of course,
make sure to like, share andsubscribe.
Make sure to like, share andsubscribe.
So welcome to this episode ofRecovery Diaries In-Depth.
(01:11):
This episode is going to be alittle unusual, a little fun, a
little exciting, a littledifferent.
Usually on the show, Iinterview a human being, some
carbon-based form of life whohas lived experience with mental
health challenges, and we havea conversation.
Today.
I'm going to be interviewing anon-human being.
(01:33):
It's 2025, brave New World andall that kind of stuff, so I
thought I would interviewChatGPT or maybe it's ChatGPT
interviewing me I'm not reallysure.
Who's really sure of anythingthese days but what I did was
ask ChatGPT what kind ofquestions it would have related
(01:59):
to suicide prevention, mentalhealth awareness and mental
health advocacy and storytelling.
I thought, gosh, these are allreally human issues.
What would artificialintelligence have to ask that
could be of value related tothese topics?
And I mean full disclosure?
(02:21):
I hate AI.
I think it's awful and ick andyuck and gross, so I was very
trepidatious about this.
However, it did yield somepretty good questions and some
questions that I thought youmight be rolling around in your
mind too.
So, without further delay,let's just get into this.
(02:46):
Mental health advocacy andsuicide awareness and prevention
are very, very important to mepersonally and organizationally.
Here at Recovery Diaries of theindividuals who write essays
(03:08):
for us or about whom we've madefilms have struggled with
suicidal ideation.
I have myself.
Some people have made attempts,some are suicide loss survivors
, so those things go hand inhand, and I think it's essential
that we talk about suicide andits prevention.
And those were the firstquestions that I asked ChatGPT,
(03:30):
and the first question was avery good one what are some
common misconceptions thatpeople have about suicide?
We could do an entire episode,we can do an entire series of
episodes just on this onequestion, but here we go.
I think the most common andpervasive and persistent
(03:53):
misperception that people haveabout suicide is that it's not
going to happen to them, and I'mgoing to let that sink in with
a little healthy pause.
The most pervasive andpersistent misperception that
people have about suicide isthat it's not going to happen to
(04:14):
them, that it's not going tohappen to you, that it's not
going to happen to me, thatthat's somebody else's thing, I
don't have to worry about that,and unfortunately it's not true.
Suicide can happen to anybodyand we all in our lives carry
(04:37):
certain risk factors that canmake us more prone to dying by
suicide, and we also carryprotective factors, things in
our lives that are helping toguard against us taking our own
lives.
But the fact of the matter isis that anything can happen to
anyone at any time, so there isnothing that really inoculates
(05:03):
you from the risk of taking yourown life.
Having a great job doesn'tinoculate you or guarantee
you're not going to killyourself.
Having a fabulous relationshipor marriage, having everybody in
the world like you and thinkyou're really swell, having a
ton of money in the bank thosecan be protective factors, but
(05:25):
they're not ironclad guarantees.
Also, not having a diagnosedmental health challenge doesn't
guarantee that you're not atrisk for taking your own life.
I hear the statistic about itaround all the time 90% of
people who take their own liveshave a diagnosed mental illness,
(05:46):
and I think that's it'sabsolute bullshit, because how
do you know that about someonewho's taken their own life
unless you have evidence thatthey have gone to therapy, that
they've received a clinicaldiagnosis?
So I would say that it'sprobably half and half.
So I would say that it'sprobably half and half if we're
(06:21):
going to be talking numbers.
People who kill themselves areselfish is a huge misperception
that seems to stick in certaincircles.
People who take their own livesare weak Another myth and
misperception that people haveanother big one is that if
someone is going to killthemselves, they're going to do
(06:42):
it and there's nothing thatanybody can do.
Someone is going to killthemselves, they're going to do
it and there's nothing thatanybody can do, and that's
bullshit.
Also, on the back of both of mycars I have a magnet that says
suicide is preventable, and Icould have chosen anything to
write, but that's what I wrotebecause it's the truth.
We can prevent suicide.
Risk mitigation works.
Restricting access to lethalmeans works, getting people into
(07:09):
treatment works these thingshelp.
Can they prevent all suicides?
No, but we can prevent some,and even if we can only prevent
one, we've got to do what we cando to prevent that.
So I'll leave the misperceptionquestion there.
There are plenty of othermisperceptions that people have
about suicide and people whotake their own lives, but we can
(07:31):
leave it at that.
Next chat, gpt was super curiousabout what are some early
warning signs that someone mightbe contemplating taking their
own life.
This is critical because ifwe're teaching people that
suicide is preventable, we haveto be teaching people about what
to look out for in their family, their colleagues at work,
(07:56):
their loved ones, their friends,people in their community.
And oftentimes I hear thissuicide came out of the blue.
It was out of the clear blue.
There was no warning signwhatsoever.
Sometimes, that's true.
Oftentimes there are warningsigns, there are soft signs that
(08:21):
someone might be thinking abouttaking their own life.
And what are those?
I'm going to start with a veryobvious one: acquiring access to
lethal means, particularly afirearm, especially if the
person we're talking about isnot a gun person.
They've never shown anyinterest in a gun, they don't
(08:43):
really know how guns work, butall of a sudden, they've never
shown any interest in a gun,they don't really know how guns
work, but all of a suddenthey've got one.
They mentioned that they'vepurchased one that's a red red.
It's the reddest of red flagsright there and that needs to be
followed up immediately withthe question are you thinking
about killing yourself?
You've never been a firearmsperson.
(09:04):
You've never collected guns orgone to a gun show or had any
interest in this whatsoever.
What's this about?
All of a sudden, are youthinking about taking your own
life?
So that's a really obvious one.
Okay, there are other, ofcourse.
Lethal means that people usestockpiling pills, stockpiling
(09:29):
pills, that kind of thing.
Something else that you want tobe on the lookout is changes in
established patterns, the peoplein your life that you know.
You know them really well.
If someone is behaving in a waykind of all of a sudden that
really deviates from what youknow about that person, that
should be cause for alarm.
Suddenly they're sleeping allthe time.
Suddenly they stopped takingcare of their ADLs, which is,
(09:52):
activities of daily living.
They've stopped showering.
They've stopped shaving If theywere really fastidious, they've
stopped ironing their clothesthat kind of thing.
They've stopped going to work.
If we're talking about peoplewho are in your social network,
online, there are still thingsthat you can observe.
Someone used to post once a day.
(10:13):
Now three weeks have gone byand they haven't posted.
Or they're posting kind of darkstuff.
They're saying hopeless things.
"God, I just can't do thisanymore.
It's not going to be.
I just want to kill myself.
Usually it's going to be softersigns.
It's going to be softerlanguage, especially if someone
(10:36):
is kind of dipping their toeinto the water, of feeling how
parasuicidal language feels intheir mouth.
"I just don't want to do thisanymore.
I just don't want to wake upanymore.
I just want to go to sleep andnever wake up.
That's a big one If someone'sgetting more irritable short
fuse.
They've started drinking more,or just started drinking, if
(11:00):
they never drank or using drugs,engaging in risky behavior.
Another warning sign is givingstuff away, particularly stuff
that this person values a lot.
That's a big, big, big red flagthat someone might be preparing
to check out.
Another thing to be aware of ismaking amends, especially with
(11:24):
people this person hasn't spokento in a long time.
If you get a phone call fromsomeone you went to high school
with and you're 40 and youhaven't heard from them since
high school and you're like, hey, I just I feel really shitty
about that thing.
You know that happened in highschool.
I just want to, I want toapologize to you.
That's really odd and thatshould be raising an alarm bell.
(11:47):
People who are thinking abouttaking their own lives some of
them want to leave with a cleanslate so they might be looking
to right wrongs from their pastare all things that we can look
(12:10):
at and notice and then dosomething about it.
And that thing to do about itis to ask Ask the question are
you thinking about killingyourself?
Are you thinking about takingyour own life?
This goes back to the firstquestion about common
misperceptions, back to thefirst question about common
misperceptions.
I think maybe one of thebiggest misperceptions or myths
related to suicide is that ifyou mention it, it's going to
(12:32):
put the idea into someone's head, and that's completely false.
What asking someone if they'rethinking about taking their own
life does is it's showing thatyou care.
It's an act of love, really ishow I like to talk about it.
So, extending that to anotherhuman being in conjunction with
(12:56):
hey, I've noticed such and such.
I've noticed you aren't comingto work.
I've noticed we don't hang outanymore.
I noticed you don't callanymore.
I noticed you don't pick up thephone when I call.
Are you okay?
Are you thinking about killingyourself?
Coupling the question with whatyou've observed, it's
incredibly powerful.
And if they're not thinkingabout it, they're not thinking
(13:19):
about it Great.
But if they are, chances arethey're going to open up and let
you know about it great.
But if they are, chances arethey're going to open up and let
you know, because you havecommunicated that you are open
to hearing that and that youcare about that person.
It's incredibly powerful.
(13:41):
ChatGPT, bringing it home withthe suicide questions with what
are some tangible ways?
50 cent word for ChatGPTtangible.
What are some tangible ways?
50 cent word for chat GPTtangible.
What are some tangible ways toreduce suicide.
I talked earlier about reducingaccess to lethal means, and when
we think about lethal meansrestriction, we'll talk about
(14:04):
firearms first, because I thinkthat's the easiest way to
understand and it's the thingthat people have in their homes,
and I mean just point blank, haha.
It's the easiest way to killyourself and nine times out of
(14:25):
10, using a firearm is going tobe fatal, right, whereas
attempting suicide with someother lethal means has a much
lower fatality rate than afirearm does.
Using a firearm, chances areyou're gone, okay, there's no
coming back from that.
There's no coming back fromthat.
So if we talk about preventingfirearm suicide, it's kind of
(14:49):
like how do I not get pregnant?
Don't have sex?
That's the surest way, right,but if you're going to have sex,
do it this way.
So it's the same thing withfirearms.
How do I not die by firearmsuicide?
Don't have a fucking gun inyour house.
That's a pretty easy way, right.
To not die by firearm suicide.
Don't have a fucking gun inyour house.
(15:09):
That's a pretty easy way to notdie by firearm suicide.
If you're going to have it inyour house, which it's America,
and you can make that choicethere are some things that you
can do to keep yourself safe, tolower your risk of taking your
own life.
I will say this simply having afirearm in your house raises
(15:32):
your risk of dying by suicideand the risk of everybody else
in your house of taking theirown life.
I'm just providing that as apiece of education.
You may not like it, but it'strue.
But now let's get to what wecan do to reduce it.
Safe storage, kind of like safesex, right, but what does safe
(15:57):
storage mean?
Safe storage means really twothings.
It's locking up your firearmokay, that's the first thing,
but also unloading it andlocking the ammunition
separately.
Like if you have a two-storyhouse ammo is locked on the
first floor, firearm is lockedon the second floor.
(16:17):
What does that do?
If you are thinking aboutsuicide?
It lowers that risk of takingyour own life by slowing you
down Instead of just pullingopen the bedside table drawer,
pulling out a fully loadedfirearm and using it.
(16:39):
That doesn't take much time atall, but it does take time to
crouch down, punch in thenumbers or do the dial on the
safe or undo the trigger lock,then go downstairs and get the.
You see what I'm saying, right?
And in that time that you'reslowing down.
Every second added is a secondthat you can reconsider your
(17:04):
actions and not take your ownlife.
Another way that you can reducerisk of taking your own life
with a firearm if you insist onkeeping one or multiple in your
home is getting the firearms outof your house.
If there is a crisis that youknow or that a family member
(17:28):
knows is happening or is on thehorizon, for example, you're
being evicted.
Your house is being foreclosedon.
If you are having a verystressful domestic situation
having a very stressful domesticsituation, if you just lost
your job, that's a perfect timeto get your firearms out of that
(17:51):
house and you can voluntarilysurrender them at your local
sheriff's office.
You can voluntarily surrenderfirearms at certain gun ranges.
It would be great to have thatinformation ahead of time.
If you're a firearm owner who Ahas mental health challenges or
(18:11):
B just if you're a firearmowner period, because, as I said
at the beginning, suicide ain'tjust about mental health.
It's also about life crises.
Things come up for people andwe may or may not have the
wherewithal to cope with certainnews or certain life situations
(18:33):
or certain happenings.
And why wouldn't you get theselethal weapons out of your house
during a period of instability?
That's a question I thinkpeople need to answer.
So temporary safe storage it'sanother way that can really save
your life if you're a firearmowner.
(18:53):
That's what I have.
Well, or should I say that'swhat ChatGPT has about suicide
prevention.
I'm going to move now to talkinga little bit more about
Recovery Diaries.
As you know, you're listeningto Recovery Diaries in depth.
That is our mental healthpodcast.
(19:15):
Recovery Diaries is an onlinemental health storytelling
platform and we tell thesestories through personal essays
and through films and nowthrough this podcast.
Those are the three tines ofthe fork, and when I asked Chat
to UPT what it would want toknow about Recovery Diaries, it
(19:36):
was like hey, what do you do atRecovery Diaries?
Gabriel Nathan, if that reallyis your name, it is so I'm the
executive director and I startedworking in the nonprofit world
I don't know, when I was 22.
(19:56):
I didn't know what the hell anexecutive director did at a
nonprofit.
I think I know better now.
So what I do is I really manageall of the day-to-day
operations of Recovery Diaries.
I collaborate with our team,which consists of our website
(20:17):
manager and graphic designer,the filmmaker who makes all of
our films our editorialassistant, our two essay editors
, our director of developmentand I've just started doing
social media, literally doing it, posting and responding to
comments and all of that thing.
That's a temporary arrangementbecause it's a little more than
(20:39):
I want to be chewing at themoment.
So I'm responsible for thecontent on the site.
I also have a portfolio ofwriters with whom I work to help
them tell their stories.
Like I said, we have twopart-time editors.
I also edit essays herepart-time.
I think it's really importantfor me to maintain that
relationship with writers.
(20:59):
I pre-read all of thesubmissions that come in.
I respond to all the commentson YouTube on our films and, of
course, on the essays as well.
I oversee fundraising efforts.
We're a nonprofit, so if you'resitting on a wad of cash right
now and it's reallyuncomfortable, you can give us
(21:22):
some.
That would be fine.
I'm also temporary president ofthe board of directors.
You can give us some, thatwould be fine.
I'm also a temporary presidentof the board of directors and so
I run the board meetings.
That's like I said, that'stemporary.
And yeah, I'm also, I guess,quote the voice.
Well, I'm really the voiceright now on this podcast, but
(21:46):
the voice of Recovery Diaries onour social media, on the site,
in terms of like, I wrote theguidelines for people to read
before they submit essays.
That's in my voice.
I'm really responsible.
It's kind of the buck stopshere sort of thing, I guess, and
(22:07):
that's a heavy lift and itstresses me out because I live
with mental illness, I have ananxiety disorder and having a
lot of responsibility is kind ofactivating, but it's not like a
poor me thing, but it's true.
And I also have depression,which is difficult when you have
a lot of responsibilities andthings to do and things that
(22:29):
need to get done at certaintimes.
I also have obsessive,compulsive traits, so that's
challenging sometimes becausethere are things that I want
done exactly a certain way andit's not always going to happen
like that and that can bechallenging.
I don't know if ChatGPT wasinterested in hearing all of
that, but that's the answer Igave.
(22:51):
Maybe this is ChatGPT giving mea little side eye, but it was
curious as to how do mentalhealth stories help people.
I guess it's sassy if I read itlike that.
It could just be how do mentalhealth stories help people?
And it's slightly less sassy ifI read it like that.
It could just be how mentalhealth stories help people and
it's slightly less sassy.
I think that mental illness doesa couple of really nasty things
(23:12):
to people.
One of the things that it doesis it tells you that you're the
only one who feels like this andit's very isolating.
And we've created a communityhere on Recovery Diaries.
That is a clap back to thatvoice that mental illness says
(23:35):
you know, you're here on thisisland all alone because of all
of the evidence that we have onour site.
People from all over the worldliving with bipolar disorder,
living with schizophrenia,living with addiction issues,
living with PTSD and OCD andautism spectrum disorders the
(23:58):
whole gamut, it's all here.
People of different genderidentities, different
ethnicities, races, alldifferent ages are all here.
So we are here to showemphatically and definitively
that you are not alone, and Ithink that's really helpful for
people.
The other thing mental illnessdoes is I think it robs people
(24:22):
of their voice and their agencyin telling their own stories,
and that's a huge part of whatwe do.
It's the core of what we dohere to amplify the voices of
people living with mental healthchallenges.
Of course, people can write onpersonal blogs and diaries and
(24:42):
they can publish elsewhere.
But I feel we give people heresomething unique.
We give them access to aprofessional editor, an
editorial relationship thatsometimes lasts for months, with
drafts going back and forth,and really, really personal
attention.
We also give peoplecompensation $250 at this
particular point for a publishedessay, which is very important.
(25:05):
I think there's an expectationthat people with mental illness
should be just telling theirstory for nothing, and that's
not true and that's not okay andthat's not ethical.
So we think it's very importantto compensate people and
compensate them as best we cangiven our own budgetary
constraints.
So that's what we do and we tryto give people what Glenn Holst
(25:29):
and our filmmaker calls the redcarpet treatment.
The essays are laid outbeautifully by Leah, our graphic
designer, and our documentaryfilms are gorgeous.
I think they're the best mentalhealth documentary films out
there.
Maybe I'm slightly prejudicedmental health documentary films
out there.
Maybe I'm slightly prejudiced,but I think elevating people's
(25:54):
writing and elevating theirpersonal experiences through
beautiful artistic filmmaking,getting Studio 1935 to produce
our podcast to the highest audiostandards using wonderful sound
engineering that's all part ofwhat we do, and we're not
content to do things by halfhere, because the bottom line is
, people with mental illnessdeserve better.
(26:15):
So there you go.
The other question related torecovery diaries is if people
are not writers, how can theyget involved?
So right, one of our main coreshere is mental health
storytelling through thepersonal essay, and I guess I
(26:36):
have two answers to thisquestion.
For a long time, I told myselfa story.
Well, I'm not a writer becauseI don't work for the New Yorker
or the Atlantic or some otherpublication where I'm on the
payroll and they're paying me onthe regular to write.
(26:57):
Therefore, I'm not a writer,I'm not a professional writer,
and that's the story I toldmyself.
The fact of the matter is thatI am a writer and I write all
the time, and you don't have tobe on someone's payroll or win
some kind of book award orwhatever to be a writer.
(27:21):
So I think you may be tellingyourself that you're not a
writer, but you may actually be.
So don't let a kind ofself-defeating narrative tell
you that you are to be excludedfrom recovery diaries because
you have mental healthchallenges.
But oh, I'm not a writer, so Ican't write an essay, okay.
(27:45):
And the other thing is, maybeyou feel like, okay, I can write
, but I can't write like that.
I can write, but it's not goodenough to be on the site, and
what I would say to people whothink that way is well.
That's why we have Evan andLaura, our two part-time
(28:08):
professional editors, becausequite often I will get a
submission where maybe it's notthe greatest writing on the
universe but it's a verycompelling story, that
submission, just knowing thatour editors are going to be
(28:29):
working with this person tobrush up the writing skills, to
clean up the grammar, to letthem know how they can make it
more compelling or perhapsbetter structured.
We are absolutely willing to dothat.
A lot of people who come to usthey're not quote professional
writers or this is their firstpublished piece, um, and we love
(28:52):
that.
We work with people, um who areprofessional authors and we
also work with people who aredoing this for the first time.
So wherever you are on thatspectrum, just submit.
Let us make the decision.
Next, ChatGPT.
We were going into questionsabout mental health advocacy.
I'm a mental health advocate.
I'm a suicide awarenessadvocate, in addition to the
(29:15):
daily work that I do at RecoveryDiaries.
So what advice would you giveto someone who wants to start
out in mental health advocacy,because there are people who are
mental health advocates andthat's what they do and that's
how they make their living.
They make their living bygiving paid speeches.
(29:37):
They make their living by adrevenue from very successful
social media platforms.
They make their living throughpartnerships with organizations
or pharmaceutical companies ordoing events and receiving
compensation.
And then there are people whoare not at that level or don't
(29:59):
want to be at that level or haveanother job, and they just want
to do mental health advocacykind of on the side.
And I guess my answer then iswhat do you want to do?
Do you see this as yourprofession?
Do you see this as somethingyou want to do on the side?
Because that's going to kind ofchange the answer to be a
(30:31):
mental health advocate.
What is it about that that'scalling me?
Is it my own lived experience?
Is it a deeply affectingexperience of a friend or a
loved one?
What is driving this train?
And then you need to look atwhat do you have that's unique
to bring to the table?
Do you have that's unique tobring to the table?
I used to do advocacy with a60-year-old car and I used that
(31:01):
to bring attention to suicideand its prevention and awareness
, and I used my writing.
What do you have in yourwheelhouse that's interesting,
that's unique, that you can useto help amplify your message?
Is it music?
Is it art?
Is it baking?
There's the Depressed Cake Shopthat spreads depression
awareness through cakes andcookies and baking.
(31:22):
What is it out there that youalready have in your own
personal arsenal that you cansteer towards mental health
advocacy and awareness?
And the other thing that youhave to ask yourself is do I
have the mental capacity to dothis?
Burnout is a real thing and Ihave sure felt it and I still
(31:45):
feel it at times.
And there are times when Icannot be as active and as
visible and I have the luxuryand privilege to be able to step
back because I have a job and Ican do my job, but sometimes
the suicide awareness advocacytakes a backseat and I'm just
not as visible, I'm not asactive.
(32:05):
I sold the 60-year-old carpartly because I knew I needed
to step back and make changes.
So you really need to doserious and regular check-ins
with yourself.
Am I okay?
Am I okay to keep doing this?
And if I'm not, am I okay withthat?
Am I okay with taking a breakor maybe permanently stepping
(32:26):
aside from it, because I havetalked to a lot of advocates who
knew it was time to step away,but it was too hard to let go of
and they stayed too long andthat can have really deleterious
effects.
So you really need to be honestwith yourself about that.
What are some of the biggestthreats you see to Americans'
(32:48):
mental health in the near future?
Well, I guess this is where Ihave to make the disclaimer that
these views are my own and theydon't necessarily reflect those
of Recovery Diaries or Studio1935 or anyone else except
Gabriel Nathan.
The biggest threat toAmericans' mental health is
Trump.
The biggest threat toAmericans' mental health is
Trump.
Okay, it is Donald Trump andthe stink that surrounds him and
(33:16):
that is permeating Americanculture.
The fuck your feelings culture.
I was driving behind a car justthis morning with a drawing of
Trump in his underwear or maybeit was a diaper, that would be
more appropriate, I think butwith his ass out at the car and
back, which was me in thisparticular instance and it said
(33:38):
kiss my ass.
This is the biggest threat toour mental health because, if I
understand, "Make America GreatAgain.
It's all about driving the carbackwards.
And when we drive the carbackwards in terms of mental
health, we are driving the cartowards a time when people did
(34:01):
not talk about their mentalhealth trauma in alcohol.
They hid abuse.
They told boys to suck it up.
Buttercup Boys, don't cry.
Let's slap our kids and nottalk about things that are going
(34:23):
on.
If we're gay or anything otherthan straight, let's repress
that.
The next four years, pleasedon't lose your softness,
(35:00):
because if we get hardenedtowards what is happening and we
become cruel and mean-spiritedand it's fuck your feelings left
and right, we're going to be inreally, really, really big
trouble.
We have to be talking aboutmental health and we have to be
doing it in an empathic andloving and caring way, and I'm
going to bring this back tosuicide prevention for a minute.
The best way to let someoneknow that they can let you know
(35:24):
if they are thinking aboutsuicide is being a nonjudgmental
, open, loving person, someonewho is not prejudiced, someone
who is not antagonistic, someonewho is not sardonic or flippant
, someone who is soft.
(35:46):
People who are suicidal come tosoft people to let them know
they don't come to assholes.
Okay, so just don't be anasshole.
Let's try to push back againstthat as best we can for the next
four years, because that is,hands down, the biggest threat
to Americans' mental health.
(36:07):
And going along with that is,of course, softening
restrictions around firearms,which is going to make firearms
much more easy to get and theyare going to get into the hands
of suicidal people and we aregoing to see firearm suicide
rates rise dramatically in thenext four years, particularly in
red states.
Why is mental health advocacyimportant to me personally?
(36:30):
I think you can probably figurethat out by now if you've stuck
with this episode the entireway.
I live with mental healthchallenges.
A lot of people whom I lovelive with mental health
challenges.
My aunt killed herself at apsychiatric hospital in Israel.
I used to work in a lockedinpatient psychiatric hospital.
(36:51):
I have seen and felt a lot ofsuffering and a lot of it has
been unnecessary, I think, orcould have been lessened through
changes to public health,through increases in advocacy,
increases in awareness,increases in talking about
things that are hard to talkabout, thereby making them less
(37:12):
hard to talk about, and I justbelieve it's so vital that we
don't keep things in, because itjust creates an implosion, it
just corrodes, and that's how webreak.
So that's why it's important.
The more we talk about it, themore we understand it, the more
(37:33):
we understand each other and themore empathy we have for each
other.
What gives me hope for thefuture?
Ah, Chat GPT.
What a lovely way to end ourtime together.
You and not Chat GPT, but youlistening.
You're giving me hope for thefuture.
If you're listening to this,you're making an investment in
(37:58):
your mental health.
You are choosing something thatis helpful and hopeful to you.
You are what's helping me feelhopeful about the future, and
I'm so very grateful to you.
I'm grateful to the team hereat Recovery Diaries, and I am
(38:20):
hopeful for the next four yearsand beyond, because I have to be
.
There is another choice to make, but I don't want to go down
that road, so I'm choosing hope.
I choose help when I need it.
This is the start of my 15thyear in therapy, and that's okay
(38:44):
.
We need the help that we needwhen we need it.
So, whatever it is that youneed whether it's this podcast
or that podcast, or therapy orHeadspace or yoga, or reading
personal essays on our site, orwatching our films, or taking a
walk or taking a pleasure, drive, opening up to someone, writing
(39:10):
something, expressing yourself.
Do it.
You never know what's going tohelp you until you try.
So try it all, and thank you somuch for joining me.
I'll see you next time.
Before we leave you, we want toremind you to check out our
(39:30):
website, recoverydiariesorg.
There, like this podcast,you'll find additional stories,
videos and content about mentalhealth, empowerment and change.
We look forward to continuingto grow our community.
Thank you so much for being apart of it.
We wouldn't be here without you.
Be sure to join our mailinglist so you never miss a podcast
(39:52):
episode, essay or film.
I'm Gabe Nathan.
Until next time, take good care.
Hello, this is Recovery Diaries In Depth.
Each week we'll bring you aRecovery Diaries contributor
folks who have shared theirmental health journey with us
through essay or video format.
We want to see where they arein their mental health journey
since initially being publishedon our website.
Our goal is to continuesupporting our diverse community
by having conversations here onour podcast to follow up and
(00:24):
see what has shifted, what haschanged and what new things have
emerged.
We're so happy to have youalong for this journey.
We want to remind you to followour show for new and back
episodes at recoverydiariesorg.
There, like the podcast, you'llfind stories of mental health,
empowerment and change.
You can also sign up for ourmailing list there so you never
(00:45):
miss a new podcast episode,essay or film, and you can find
this podcast pretty muchanywhere you get your podcasts.
We appreciate your comments andfeedback about our show.
It helps us improve, makechanges and grow and, of course,
make sure to like, share andsubscribe.
Make sure to like, share andsubscribe.
So welcome to this episode ofRecovery Diaries In-Depth.
(01:11):
This episode is going to be alittle unusual, a little fun, a
little exciting, a littledifferent.
Usually on the show, Iinterview a human being, some
carbon-based form of life whohas lived experience with mental
health challenges, and we havea conversation.
Today.
I'm going to be interviewing anon-human being.
(01:33):
It's 2025, brave New World andall that kind of stuff, so I
thought I would interviewChatGPT or maybe it's ChatGPT
interviewing me I'm not reallysure.
Who's really sure of anythingthese days but what I did was
ask ChatGPT what kind ofquestions it would have related
(01:59):
to suicide prevention, mentalhealth awareness and mental
health advocacy and storytelling.
I thought, gosh, these are allreally human issues.
What would artificialintelligence have to ask that
could be of value related tothese topics?
And I mean full disclosure?
(02:21):
I hate AI.
I think it's awful and ick andyuck and gross, so I was very
trepidatious about this.
However, it did yield somepretty good questions and some
questions that I thought youmight be rolling around in your
mind too.
So, without further delay,let's just get into this.
(02:46):
Mental health advocacy andsuicide awareness and prevention
are very, very important to mepersonally and organizationally.
Here at Recovery Diaries of theindividuals who write essays
(03:08):
for us or about whom we've madefilms have struggled with
suicidal ideation.
I have myself.
Some people have made attempts,some are suicide loss survivors
, so those things go hand inhand, and I think it's essential
that we talk about suicide andits prevention.
And those were the firstquestions that I asked ChatGPT,
(03:30):
and the first question was avery good one what are some
common misconceptions thatpeople have about suicide?
We could do an entire episode,we can do an entire series of
episodes just on this onequestion, but here we go.
I think the most common andpervasive and persistent
(03:53):
misperception that people haveabout suicide is that it's not
going to happen to them, and I'mgoing to let that sink in with
a little healthy pause.
The most pervasive andpersistent misperception that
people have about suicide isthat it's not going to happen to
(04:14):
them, that it's not going tohappen to you, that it's not
going to happen to me, thatthat's somebody else's thing, I
don't have to worry about that,and unfortunately it's not true.
Suicide can happen to anybodyand we all in our lives carry
(04:37):
certain risk factors that canmake us more prone to dying by
suicide, and we also carryprotective factors, things in
our lives that are helping toguard against us taking our own
lives.
But the fact of the matter isis that anything can happen to
anyone at any time, so there isnothing that really inoculates
(05:03):
you from the risk of taking yourown life.
Having a great job doesn'tinoculate you or guarantee
you're not going to killyourself.
Having a fabulous relationshipor marriage, having everybody in
the world like you and thinkyou're really swell, having a
ton of money in the bank thosecan be protective factors, but
(05:25):
they're not ironclad guarantees.
Also, not having a diagnosedmental health challenge doesn't
guarantee that you're not atrisk for taking your own life.
I hear the statistic about itaround all the time 90% of
people who take their own liveshave a diagnosed mental illness,
(05:46):
and I think that's it'sabsolute bullshit, because how
do you know that about someonewho's taken their own life
unless you have evidence thatthey have gone to therapy, that
they've received a clinicaldiagnosis?
So I would say that it'sprobably half and half.
So I would say that it'sprobably half and half if we're
(06:21):
going to be talking numbers.
People who kill themselves areselfish is a huge misperception
that seems to stick in certaincircles.
People who take their own livesare weak Another myth and
misperception that people haveanother big one is that if
someone is going to killthemselves, they're going to do
(06:42):
it and there's nothing thatanybody can do.
Someone is going to killthemselves, they're going to do
it and there's nothing thatanybody can do, and that's
bullshit.
Also, on the back of both of mycars I have a magnet that says
suicide is preventable, and Icould have chosen anything to
write, but that's what I wrotebecause it's the truth.
We can prevent suicide.
Risk mitigation works.
Restricting access to lethalmeans works, getting people into
(07:09):
treatment works these thingshelp.
Can they prevent all suicides?
No, but we can prevent some,and even if we can only prevent
one, we've got to do what we cando to prevent that.
So I'll leave the misperceptionquestion there.
There are plenty of othermisperceptions that people have
about suicide and people whotake their own lives, but we can
(07:31):
leave it at that.
Next chat, gpt was super curiousabout what are some early
warning signs that someone mightbe contemplating taking their
own life.
This is critical because ifwe're teaching people that
suicide is preventable, we haveto be teaching people about what
to look out for in their family, their colleagues at work,
(07:56):
their loved ones, their friends,people in their community.
And oftentimes I hear thissuicide came out of the blue.
It was out of the clear blue.
There was no warning signwhatsoever.
Sometimes, that's true.
Oftentimes there are warningsigns, there are soft signs that
(08:21):
someone might be thinking abouttaking their own life.
And what are those?
I'm going to start with a veryobvious one: acquiring access to
lethal means, particularly afirearm, especially if the
person we're talking about isnot a gun person.
They've never shown anyinterest in a gun, they don't
(08:43):
really know how guns work, butall of a sudden, they've never
shown any interest in a gun,they don't really know how guns
work, but all of a suddenthey've got one.
They mentioned that they'vepurchased one that's a red red.
It's the reddest of red flagsright there and that needs to be
followed up immediately withthe question are you thinking
about killing yourself?
You've never been a firearmsperson.
(09:04):
You've never collected guns orgone to a gun show or had any
interest in this whatsoever.
What's this about?
All of a sudden, are youthinking about taking your own
life?
So that's a really obvious one.
Okay, there are other, ofcourse.
Lethal means that people usestockpiling pills, stockpiling
(09:29):
pills, that kind of thing.
Something else that you want tobe on the lookout is changes in
established patterns, the peoplein your life that you know.
You know them really well.
If someone is behaving in a waykind of all of a sudden that
really deviates from what youknow about that person, that
should be cause for alarm.
Suddenly they're sleeping allthe time.
Suddenly they stopped takingcare of their ADLs, which is,
(09:52):
activities of daily living.
They've stopped showering.
They've stopped shaving If theywere really fastidious, they've
stopped ironing their clothesthat kind of thing.
They've stopped going to work.
If we're talking about peoplewho are in your social network,
online, there are still thingsthat you can observe.
Someone used to post once a day.
(10:13):
Now three weeks have gone byand they haven't posted.
Or they're posting kind of darkstuff.
They're saying hopeless things.
"God, I just can't do thisanymore.
It's not going to be.
I just want to kill myself.
Usually it's going to be softersigns.
It's going to be softerlanguage, especially if someone
(10:36):
is kind of dipping their toeinto the water, of feeling how
parasuicidal language feels intheir mouth.
"I just don't want to do thisanymore.
I just don't want to wake upanymore.
I just want to go to sleep andnever wake up.
That's a big one If someone'sgetting more irritable short
fuse.
They've started drinking more,or just started drinking, if
(11:00):
they never drank or using drugs,engaging in risky behavior.
Another warning sign is givingstuff away, particularly stuff
that this person values a lot.
That's a big, big, big red flagthat someone might be preparing
to check out.
Another thing to be aware of ismaking amends, especially with
(11:24):
people this person hasn't spokento in a long time.
If you get a phone call fromsomeone you went to high school
with and you're 40 and youhaven't heard from them since
high school and you're like, hey, I just I feel really shitty
about that thing.
You know that happened in highschool.
I just want to, I want toapologize to you.
That's really odd and thatshould be raising an alarm bell.
(11:47):
People who are thinking abouttaking their own lives some of
them want to leave with a cleanslate so they might be looking
to right wrongs from their pastare all things that we can look
(12:10):
at and notice and then dosomething about it.
And that thing to do about itis to ask Ask the question are
you thinking about killingyourself?
Are you thinking about takingyour own life?
This goes back to the firstquestion about common
misperceptions, back to thefirst question about common
misperceptions.
I think maybe one of thebiggest misperceptions or myths
related to suicide is that ifyou mention it, it's going to
(12:32):
put the idea into someone's head, and that's completely false.
What asking someone if they'rethinking about taking their own
life does is it's showing thatyou care.
It's an act of love, really ishow I like to talk about it.
So, extending that to anotherhuman being in conjunction with
(12:56):
hey, I've noticed such and such.
I've noticed you aren't comingto work.
I've noticed we don't hang outanymore.
I noticed you don't callanymore.
I noticed you don't pick up thephone when I call.
Are you okay?
Are you thinking about killingyourself?
Coupling the question with whatyou've observed, it's
incredibly powerful.
And if they're not thinkingabout it, they're not thinking
(13:19):
about it Great.
But if they are, chances arethey're going to open up and let
you know about it great.
But if they are, chances arethey're going to open up and let
you know, because you havecommunicated that you are open
to hearing that and that youcare about that person.
It's incredibly powerful.
(13:41):
ChatGPT, bringing it home withthe suicide questions with what
are some tangible ways?
50 cent word for ChatGPTtangible.
What are some tangible ways?
50 cent word for chat GPTtangible.
What are some tangible ways toreduce suicide.
I talked earlier about reducingaccess to lethal means, and when
we think about lethal meansrestriction, we'll talk about
(14:04):
firearms first, because I thinkthat's the easiest way to
understand and it's the thingthat people have in their homes,
and I mean just point blank, haha.
It's the easiest way to killyourself and nine times out of
(14:25):
10, using a firearm is going tobe fatal, right, whereas
attempting suicide with someother lethal means has a much
lower fatality rate than afirearm does.
Using a firearm, chances areyou're gone, okay, there's no
coming back from that.
There's no coming back fromthat.
So if we talk about preventingfirearm suicide, it's kind of
(14:49):
like how do I not get pregnant?
Don't have sex?
That's the surest way, right,but if you're going to have sex,
do it this way.
So it's the same thing withfirearms.
How do I not die by firearmsuicide?
Don't have a fucking gun inyour house.
That's a pretty easy way, right.
To not die by firearm suicide.
Don't have a fucking gun inyour house.
(15:09):
That's a pretty easy way to notdie by firearm suicide.
If you're going to have it inyour house, which it's America,
and you can make that choicethere are some things that you
can do to keep yourself safe, tolower your risk of taking your
own life.
I will say this simply having afirearm in your house raises
(15:32):
your risk of dying by suicideand the risk of everybody else
in your house of taking theirown life.
I'm just providing that as apiece of education.
You may not like it, but it'strue.
But now let's get to what wecan do to reduce it.
Safe storage, kind of like safesex, right, but what does safe
(15:57):
storage mean?
Safe storage means really twothings.
It's locking up your firearmokay, that's the first thing,
but also unloading it andlocking the ammunition
separately.
Like if you have a two-storyhouse ammo is locked on the
first floor, firearm is lockedon the second floor.
(16:17):
What does that do?
If you are thinking aboutsuicide?
It lowers that risk of takingyour own life by slowing you
down Instead of just pullingopen the bedside table drawer,
pulling out a fully loadedfirearm and using it.
(16:39):
That doesn't take much time atall, but it does take time to
crouch down, punch in thenumbers or do the dial on the
safe or undo the trigger lock,then go downstairs and get the.
You see what I'm saying, right?
And in that time that you'reslowing down.
Every second added is a secondthat you can reconsider your
(17:04):
actions and not take your ownlife.
Another way that you can reducerisk of taking your own life
with a firearm if you insist onkeeping one or multiple in your
home is getting the firearms outof your house.
If there is a crisis that youknow or that a family member
(17:28):
knows is happening or is on thehorizon, for example, you're
being evicted.
Your house is being foreclosedon.
If you are having a verystressful domestic situation
having a very stressful domesticsituation, if you just lost
your job, that's a perfect timeto get your firearms out of that
(17:51):
house and you can voluntarilysurrender them at your local
sheriff's office.
You can voluntarily surrenderfirearms at certain gun ranges.
It would be great to have thatinformation ahead of time.
If you're a firearm owner who Ahas mental health challenges or
(18:11):
B just if you're a firearmowner period, because, as I said
at the beginning, suicide ain'tjust about mental health.
It's also about life crises.
Things come up for people andwe may or may not have the
wherewithal to cope with certainnews or certain life situations
(18:33):
or certain happenings.
And why wouldn't you get theselethal weapons out of your house
during a period of instability?
That's a question I thinkpeople need to answer.
So temporary safe storage it'sanother way that can really save
your life if you're a firearmowner.
(18:53):
That's what I have.
Well, or should I say that'swhat ChatGPT has about suicide
prevention.
I'm going to move now to talkinga little bit more about
Recovery Diaries.
As you know, you're listeningto Recovery Diaries in depth.
That is our mental healthpodcast.
(19:15):
Recovery Diaries is an onlinemental health storytelling
platform and we tell thesestories through personal essays
and through films and nowthrough this podcast.
Those are the three tines ofthe fork, and when I asked Chat
to UPT what it would want toknow about Recovery Diaries, it
(19:36):
was like hey, what do you do atRecovery Diaries?
Gabriel Nathan, if that reallyis your name, it is so I'm the
executive director and I startedworking in the nonprofit world
I don't know, when I was 22.
(19:56):
I didn't know what the hell anexecutive director did at a
nonprofit.
I think I know better now.
So what I do is I really manageall of the day-to-day
operations of Recovery Diaries.
I collaborate with our team,which consists of our website
(20:17):
manager and graphic designer,the filmmaker who makes all of
our films our editorialassistant, our two essay editors
, our director of developmentand I've just started doing
social media, literally doing it, posting and responding to
comments and all of that thing.
That's a temporary arrangementbecause it's a little more than
(20:39):
I want to be chewing at themoment.
So I'm responsible for thecontent on the site.
I also have a portfolio ofwriters with whom I work to help
them tell their stories.
Like I said, we have twopart-time editors.
I also edit essays herepart-time.
I think it's really importantfor me to maintain that
relationship with writers.
(20:59):
I pre-read all of thesubmissions that come in.
I respond to all the commentson YouTube on our films and, of
course, on the essays as well.
I oversee fundraising efforts.
We're a nonprofit, so if you'resitting on a wad of cash right
now and it's reallyuncomfortable, you can give us
(21:22):
some.
That would be fine.
I'm also temporary president ofthe board of directors.
You can give us some, thatwould be fine.
I'm also a temporary presidentof the board of directors and so
I run the board meetings.
That's like I said, that'stemporary.
And yeah, I'm also, I guess,quote the voice.
Well, I'm really the voiceright now on this podcast, but
(21:46):
the voice of Recovery Diaries onour social media, on the site,
in terms of like, I wrote theguidelines for people to read
before they submit essays.
That's in my voice.
I'm really responsible.
It's kind of the buck stopshere sort of thing, I guess, and
(22:07):
that's a heavy lift and itstresses me out because I live
with mental illness, I have ananxiety disorder and having a
lot of responsibility is kind ofactivating, but it's not like a
poor me thing, but it's true.
And I also have depression,which is difficult when you have
a lot of responsibilities andthings to do and things that
(22:29):
need to get done at certaintimes.
I also have obsessive,compulsive traits, so that's
challenging sometimes becausethere are things that I want
done exactly a certain way andit's not always going to happen
like that and that can bechallenging.
I don't know if ChatGPT wasinterested in hearing all of
that, but that's the answer Igave.
(22:51):
Maybe this is ChatGPT giving mea little side eye, but it was
curious as to how do mentalhealth stories help people.
I guess it's sassy if I read itlike that.
It could just be how do mentalhealth stories help people?
And it's slightly less sassy ifI read it like that.
It could just be how mentalhealth stories help people and
it's slightly less sassy.
I think that mental illness doesa couple of really nasty things
(23:12):
to people.
One of the things that it doesis it tells you that you're the
only one who feels like this andit's very isolating.
And we've created a communityhere on Recovery Diaries.
That is a clap back to thatvoice that mental illness says
(23:35):
you know, you're here on thisisland all alone because of all
of the evidence that we have onour site.
People from all over the worldliving with bipolar disorder,
living with schizophrenia,living with addiction issues,
living with PTSD and OCD andautism spectrum disorders the
(23:58):
whole gamut, it's all here.
People of different genderidentities, different
ethnicities, races, alldifferent ages are all here.
So we are here to showemphatically and definitively
that you are not alone, and Ithink that's really helpful for
people.
The other thing mental illnessdoes is I think it robs people
(24:22):
of their voice and their agencyin telling their own stories,
and that's a huge part of whatwe do.
It's the core of what we dohere to amplify the voices of
people living with mental healthchallenges.
Of course, people can write onpersonal blogs and diaries and
(24:42):
they can publish elsewhere.
But I feel we give people heresomething unique.
We give them access to aprofessional editor, an
editorial relationship thatsometimes lasts for months, with
drafts going back and forth,and really, really personal
attention.
We also give peoplecompensation $250 at this
particular point for a publishedessay, which is very important.
(25:05):
I think there's an expectationthat people with mental illness
should be just telling theirstory for nothing, and that's
not true and that's not okay andthat's not ethical.
So we think it's very importantto compensate people and
compensate them as best we cangiven our own budgetary
constraints.
So that's what we do and we tryto give people what Glenn Holst
(25:29):
and our filmmaker calls the redcarpet treatment.
The essays are laid outbeautifully by Leah, our graphic
designer, and our documentaryfilms are gorgeous.
I think they're the best mentalhealth documentary films out
there.
Maybe I'm slightly prejudicedmental health documentary films
out there.
Maybe I'm slightly prejudiced,but I think elevating people's
(25:54):
writing and elevating theirpersonal experiences through
beautiful artistic filmmaking,getting Studio 1935 to produce
our podcast to the highest audiostandards using wonderful sound
engineering that's all part ofwhat we do, and we're not
content to do things by halfhere, because the bottom line is
, people with mental illnessdeserve better.
(26:15):
So there you go.
The other question related torecovery diaries is if people
are not writers, how can theyget involved?
So right, one of our main coreshere is mental health
storytelling through thepersonal essay, and I guess I
(26:36):
have two answers to thisquestion.
For a long time, I told myselfa story.
Well, I'm not a writer becauseI don't work for the New Yorker
or the Atlantic or some otherpublication where I'm on the
payroll and they're paying me onthe regular to write.
(26:57):
Therefore, I'm not a writer,I'm not a professional writer,
and that's the story I toldmyself.
The fact of the matter is thatI am a writer and I write all
the time, and you don't have tobe on someone's payroll or win
some kind of book award orwhatever to be a writer.
(27:21):
So I think you may be tellingyourself that you're not a
writer, but you may actually be.
So don't let a kind ofself-defeating narrative tell
you that you are to be excludedfrom recovery diaries because
you have mental healthchallenges.
But oh, I'm not a writer, so Ican't write an essay, okay.
(27:45):
And the other thing is, maybeyou feel like, okay, I can write
, but I can't write like that.
I can write, but it's not goodenough to be on the site, and
what I would say to people whothink that way is well.
That's why we have Evan andLaura, our two part-time
(28:08):
professional editors, becausequite often I will get a
submission where maybe it's notthe greatest writing on the
universe but it's a verycompelling story, that
submission, just knowing thatour editors are going to be
(28:29):
working with this person tobrush up the writing skills, to
clean up the grammar, to letthem know how they can make it
more compelling or perhapsbetter structured.
We are absolutely willing to dothat.
A lot of people who come to usthey're not quote professional
writers or this is their firstpublished piece, um, and we love
(28:52):
that.
We work with people, um who areprofessional authors and we
also work with people who aredoing this for the first time.
So wherever you are on thatspectrum, just submit.
Let us make the decision.
Next, ChatGPT.
We were going into questionsabout mental health advocacy.
I'm a mental health advocate.
I'm a suicide awarenessadvocate, in addition to the
(29:15):
daily work that I do at RecoveryDiaries.
So what advice would you giveto someone who wants to start
out in mental health advocacy,because there are people who are
mental health advocates andthat's what they do and that's
how they make their living.
They make their living bygiving paid speeches.
(29:37):
They make their living by adrevenue from very successful
social media platforms.
They make their living throughpartnerships with organizations
or pharmaceutical companies ordoing events and receiving
compensation.
And then there are people whoare not at that level or don't
(29:59):
want to be at that level or haveanother job, and they just want
to do mental health advocacykind of on the side.
And I guess my answer then iswhat do you want to do?
Do you see this as yourprofession?
Do you see this as somethingyou want to do on the side?
Because that's going to kind ofchange the answer to be a
(30:31):
mental health advocate.
What is it about that that'scalling me?
Is it my own lived experience?
Is it a deeply affectingexperience of a friend or a
loved one?
What is driving this train?
And then you need to look atwhat do you have that's unique
to bring to the table?
Do you have that's unique tobring to the table?
I used to do advocacy with a60-year-old car and I used that
(31:01):
to bring attention to suicideand its prevention and awareness
, and I used my writing.
What do you have in yourwheelhouse that's interesting,
that's unique, that you can useto help amplify your message?
Is it music?
Is it art?
Is it baking?
There's the Depressed Cake Shopthat spreads depression
awareness through cakes andcookies and baking.
(31:22):
What is it out there that youalready have in your own
personal arsenal that you cansteer towards mental health
advocacy and awareness?
And the other thing that youhave to ask yourself is do I
have the mental capacity to dothis?
Burnout is a real thing and Ihave sure felt it and I still
(31:45):
feel it at times.
And there are times when Icannot be as active and as
visible and I have the luxuryand privilege to be able to step
back because I have a job and Ican do my job, but sometimes
the suicide awareness advocacytakes a backseat and I'm just
not as visible, I'm not asactive.
(32:05):
I sold the 60-year-old carpartly because I knew I needed
to step back and make changes.
So you really need to doserious and regular check-ins
with yourself.
Am I okay?
Am I okay to keep doing this?
And if I'm not, am I okay withthat?
Am I okay with taking a breakor maybe permanently stepping
(32:26):
aside from it, because I havetalked to a lot of advocates who
knew it was time to step away,but it was too hard to let go of
and they stayed too long andthat can have really deleterious
effects.
So you really need to be honestwith yourself about that.
What are some of the biggestthreats you see to Americans'
(32:48):
mental health in the near future?
Well, I guess this is where Ihave to make the disclaimer that
these views are my own and theydon't necessarily reflect those
of Recovery Diaries or Studio1935 or anyone else except
Gabriel Nathan.
The biggest threat toAmericans' mental health is
Trump.
The biggest threat toAmericans' mental health is
Trump.
Okay, it is Donald Trump andthe stink that surrounds him and
(33:16):
that is permeating Americanculture.
The fuck your feelings culture.
I was driving behind a car justthis morning with a drawing of
Trump in his underwear or maybeit was a diaper, that would be
more appropriate, I think butwith his ass out at the car and
back, which was me in thisparticular instance and it said
(33:38):
kiss my ass.
This is the biggest threat toour mental health because, if I
understand, "Make America GreatAgain.
It's all about driving the carbackwards.
And when we drive the carbackwards in terms of mental
health, we are driving the cartowards a time when people did
(34:01):
not talk about their mentalhealth trauma in alcohol.
They hid abuse.
They told boys to suck it up.
Buttercup Boys, don't cry.
Let's slap our kids and nottalk about things that are going
(34:23):
on.
If we're gay or anything otherthan straight, let's repress
that.
The next four years, pleasedon't lose your softness,
(35:00):
because if we get hardenedtowards what is happening and we
become cruel and mean-spiritedand it's fuck your feelings left
and right, we're going to be inreally, really, really big
trouble.
We have to be talking aboutmental health and we have to be
doing it in an empathic andloving and caring way, and I'm
going to bring this back tosuicide prevention for a minute.
The best way to let someoneknow that they can let you know
(35:24):
if they are thinking aboutsuicide is being a nonjudgmental
, open, loving person, someonewho is not prejudiced, someone
who is not antagonistic, someonewho is not sardonic or flippant
, someone who is soft.
(35:46):
People who are suicidal come tosoft people to let them know
they don't come to assholes.
Okay, so just don't be anasshole.
Let's try to push back againstthat as best we can for the next
four years, because that is,hands down, the biggest threat
to Americans' mental health.
(36:07):
And going along with that is,of course, softening
restrictions around firearms,which is going to make firearms
much more easy to get and theyare going to get into the hands
of suicidal people and we aregoing to see firearm suicide
rates rise dramatically in thenext four years, particularly in
red states.
Why is mental health advocacyimportant to me personally?
(36:30):
I think you can probably figurethat out by now if you've stuck
with this episode the entireway.
I live with mental healthchallenges.
A lot of people whom I lovelive with mental health
challenges.
My aunt killed herself at apsychiatric hospital in Israel.
I used to work in a lockedinpatient psychiatric hospital.
(36:51):
I have seen and felt a lot ofsuffering and a lot of it has
been unnecessary, I think, orcould have been lessened through
changes to public health,through increases in advocacy,
increases in awareness,increases in talking about
things that are hard to talkabout, thereby making them less
(37:12):
hard to talk about, and I justbelieve it's so vital that we
don't keep things in, because itjust creates an implosion, it
just corrodes, and that's how webreak.
So that's why it's important.
The more we talk about it, themore we understand it, the more
(37:33):
we understand each other and themore empathy we have for each
other.
What gives me hope for thefuture?
Ah, Chat GPT.
What a lovely way to end ourtime together.
You and not Chat GPT, but youlistening.
You're giving me hope for thefuture.
If you're listening to this,you're making an investment in
(37:58):
your mental health.
You are choosing something thatis helpful and hopeful to you.
You are what's helping me feelhopeful about the future, and
I'm so very grateful to you.
I'm grateful to the team hereat Recovery Diaries, and I am
(38:20):
hopeful for the next four yearsand beyond, because I have to be
.
There is another choice to make, but I don't want to go down
that road, so I'm choosing hope.
I choose help when I need it.
This is the start of my 15thyear in therapy, and that's okay
(38:44):
.
We need the help that we needwhen we need it.
So, whatever it is that youneed whether it's this podcast
or that podcast, or therapy orHeadspace or yoga, or reading
personal essays on our site, orwatching our films, or taking a
walk or taking a pleasure, drive, opening up to someone, writing
(39:10):
something, expressing yourself.
Do it.
You never know what's going tohelp you until you try.
So try it all, and thank you somuch for joining me.
I'll see you next time.
Before we leave you, we want toremind you to check out our
(39:30):
website, recoverydiariesorg.
There, like this podcast,you'll find additional stories,
videos and content about mentalhealth, empowerment and change.
We look forward to continuingto grow our community.
Thank you so much for being apart of it.
We wouldn't be here without you.
Be sure to join our mailinglist so you never miss a podcast
(39:52):
episode, essay or film.
I'm Gabe Nathan.
Until next time, take good care.
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