March 27, 2025 • 43 mins
Sheila O'Shea is a writer with bipolar disorder; two of her intriguing and vulnerable personal essays reside on our website, www.oc87recoverydiaries.org. In one of her essays, she writes about the importance of drawing boundaries at work and the other piece is devoted to how she learned she had bipolar disorder. Our podcast interview with Sheila delves into material and themes from both essays. Sheila talks openly about working with bipolar disorder, the frustrating necessity of educating employers who know next-to-nothing about mental illness, and the benefits of working from home. Sheila describes bipolar disorder as leaving her work life in tatters, but she is continuing to work, this time on her own terms, and living a healthier life.
Sheila also talks about "the unpleasantness", which is how she refers to how her bipolar disorder was finally diagnosed, and speaks candidly about her time spent in a locked, inpatient psychiatric hospital; one of the most highly stigmatized and feared places on Earth. "It was really fucking boring," Sheila says with a laugh. Most stories about psychiatric hospitals are replete with horror stories, but Sheila's description reveals the often ceaseless banality patients encounter in these facilities where there is often not much to do and the most exciting thing that happens is your discharge.
Exploring hypomania with thoughtfulness, Sheila openly admits that there are "advantages" to hypomania-- creativity and productivity being chief among them-- but that high always wears off and the crushing low comes hard; it is this knowledge and understanding that has prevented Sheila from going off her medication, and it's what keeps her stable. Sheila's insight, awareness, and openness made her a great guest, and you'll enjoy her conversation with our host, Gabriel Nathan. Check it out; like, share, and subscribe to Recovery Diaries in Depth.
Conversations like the ones on this podcast can sometimes be hard, but they're always necessary. If you or someone you know is struggling, please consider visiting www.wannatalkaboutit.com. If you or someone you know is considering suicide, please call, text, or chat 988.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gabe Nathan (00:01):
Hello, this is Recovery Diaries In-Depth.
I'm your host, Gabe Nathan.
Thanks so much for joining us.
We're very happy to have youhere Today.
We have as our guest SheilaO'Shea.
She's a writer who lives withbipolar disorder in Georgia.
You can find out about aproject that she is working on.
It is called 10,000 Flowers.
(00:21):
That is at wonderbink.
com.
You can read some of herwriting at sheilawrites.
com, and she has not one, buttwo essays on our site at
oc87recoverydiaries.
org.
Each week we'll bring you aRecovery Diaries contributor
folks who have shared theirmental health journey with us
(00:42):
through essay or video format.
We want to see where they arein their mental health journey
since initially being publishedon our website.
Our goal is to continuesupporting our diverse community
by having conversations here onour podcast to follow up and
see what has shifted, what haschanged and what new things have
emerged.
We're so happy to have youalong for this journey.
(01:04):
We want to remind you to followour show for new and back
episodes at recoverydiariesorg.
There, like the podcast, you'llfind stories of mental health,
empowerment and change.
You can also sign up for ourmailing list there so you never
miss a new podcast episode,essay or film, and you can find
this podcast pretty muchanywhere you get your podcasts.
(01:25):
We appreciate your comments andfeedback about our show.
It helps us improve, makechanges and grow and, of course,
make sure to like, share andsubscribe Sheila O'Shea.
Thank you so so much forjoining us for this conversation
on Recovery Diaries in depth.
(01:46):
It is great to have you here.
Sheila O'Shea (01:48):
I'm glad to be here.
So, I'm just going to start offwith how are you today?
I'm doing pretty well, knocked out four hours at
my little work-from-home job,which has been absolutely
(02:09):
glorious since working in thepublic, since I could set my own
hours and take a nap in themiddle of the day and work late
if I need to, not work late if Idon't, and the work's pretty
good.
And the work's pretty good.
(02:30):
It's stimulating.
Gabe Nathan (02:32):
So you live with bipolar disorder, type 2, is
that right?
That is correct.
A little bit about, since westarted out talking about work,
can you talk a little bit aboutsort of work-life balance and
why, like everybody talks about,oh, it's so important to have
(02:52):
work-life balance and to haveprofessional boundaries and
things like that.
But I think a lot of peopletalk about it in a really
nebulous general way.
That's fine for the generalpublic, but I think when you
live with a serious mentalillness it's, for lack of a
better word, more serious.
So I would love to hear aboutthat from you.
Sheila O'Shea (03:16):
Well, I'm not 100% sure how to answer that
question because my work historyup to about this point was a
series of catastrophes In turn.
You know I would have to sortof rest.
What balance I could get out ofwhatever job I was working.
(03:42):
You know, of whatever job I wasworking, you know it's like I
said, I take a nap in the middleof the day.
When I worked the last job, Iworked the job that I was
working at when theunpleasantness happened.
I would sleep under my well, Iwouldn't sleep, I would rest,
but I would curl up my coat andcurl up under my desk to have
(04:08):
some kind of rest and some wayto decompress.
So that's a really difficultquestion for me to answer
because I haven't been in toomany situations where work-life
balance has been a priority intoo many situations where
work-life balance has been apriority.
I think this may be the firstjob I've had where I've really
(04:29):
had that.
Gabe Nathan (04:31):
And what has that been like for you?
Sheila O'Shea (04:37):
It's really been wonderful because I can work on
my own rhythms.
I'm pretty stringent about whenI work.
I try to do 7 to noon and then2 to 5.
But if I wind up oversleeping,I just live with that.
I work around that.
I like that.
(05:00):
I don't have to customerservice anybody anymore.
I like that.
I don't have to customerservice anybody anymore.
You know, and I think in someway I like the fact that
communication is primarilywritten, because that's my
strong point.
I don't do well having to thinkon my feet when you know,
(05:24):
conversing with somebody,especially about a really
stressful situation.
When I'm typing something inSlack or whatever, I can weigh
my words.
I can go back and fix typos.
I can go back and say no, thisword would work better, and then
hit send.
Gabe Nathan (05:41):
So I'm going to get kind of meta on you.
I'm super interested by whatyou just said about spontaneous
communication and about how youperceive that it's not really
your strength.
Is it making this interviewhard?
Sheila O'Shea (06:01):
Not really because it's a different
situation.
Not really because it's adifferent situation.
We're both on the same pageabout mental health and it's
important, For sure.
Gabe Nathan (06:18):
The harder push.
We're dealing with people whojust don't get it.
And specifically when I saypeople, let's talk about
employers.
Do you feel that there's a lackof overall understanding of
mental illness and how itimpacts people in the workplace?
I'll just start with thatquestion.
Sheila O'Shea (06:37):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I had a lot of Granted for alot of the stretch that I was
humbling my way through my workhistory.
I didn't know what my issue was.
I had been misdiagnosed withdepression, because bipolar II
(07:05):
has a lot in common withdepression.
There are, unlike bipolar 1,bipolar 2 has more depressive
episodes.
If you were hypomanic ones,then then bipolar 1 does.
Uh, so I was, you know,basically taking the wrong drugs
, undergoing the wrongtreatments and I don't know,
(07:31):
people don't get it a lot.
And I think the hardest partwas when I was looking for a job
.
After the unpleasantness afterthe unpleasantness it was, I
(07:51):
kept trying to figure out how totell people, if I should tell
people.
For a while I hedged it as Iwas having health issues.
And then other times I said Iwas diagnosed with bipolar
disorder.
And I remember there was oneinterview I had.
It was for a company I reallywanted to work for and when they
(08:15):
got to the so why did you leave?
Less Than Soap?
And I'm like, well, I had to gointo treatment for bipolar
disorder.
They said, oh, and they kind ofwent oh my gosh, we've had an
emergency, we'll get back to you, and ended the interview and
they never got back to me and Icannot help but be convinced
(08:36):
that it was because I told them.
Gabe Nathan (08:38):
Yeah.
So here's the thing about that.
I have so much that I want tosay about that no-transcript.
(09:17):
Even know what they're scaredof.
Sheila O'Shea (09:20):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I'll say that I think.
I mean I didn't know there weretwo kinds of bipolar until just
before I was diagnosed.
That's not a very you know frommovies and TV show, just this
(09:50):
exaggerated and inaccurateperception, it's just synonymous
with crazy.
I feel like it's just a synonymfor crazy in most people's mind
and they're like well, I don'twant to hire crazy, just a
synonym for crazy in mostpeople's mind and they're like
well, I don't want to hire crazy, yeah, and I think bipolar has
(10:10):
a big stigma.
Depressions is, I guess, alittle more acceptable than
bipolar, because bipolar has,you know, mania and hypomania
kind of lurking around thecorner and, oh my God, what is
this person going to do whenthey get up there?
Gabe Nathan (10:29):
Yeah, and how is this going to affect my bottom
line?
I mean, that's what anemployer's really concerned
about.
Is this going to make mycompany look bad?
Am I going to lose money orcustomers or clients because of
this person?
And it's just, it's sofrustrating to know that people
(10:49):
like you carry the burden Iguess is the word I'll use of
educating other people, peoplein the workplace about your
mental health challenge and kindof constantly having to
reassure them that you're not athreat to their, their business
(11:12):
or whatever it is I've had todeal with people who think
bipolar doesn't exist.
Sheila O'Shea (11:18):
I, I had yeah, I had to deal with somebody that's
like, well, everybody's gottheir up moods and their down
moods.
It's like, okay.
.
.
Gabe Nathan (11:24):
Oh, wow.
Sheila O'Shea (11:25):
It's like, okay, do your up moods involve booking
international flights onimpulse and do your down moods
involve suicidal ideation.
Gabe Nathan (11:31):
Yeah, and that's unbelievable.
It's unbelievable that you evenhave to have conversations like
that with people.
But of course there are alsopeople who believe that Sandy
Hook and the Holocaust didn'thappen.
So people are dumb.
I guess is the bottom line, andthere will be people who
believe that Sandy Hook and theHolocaust didn't happen.
So people are dumb.
I guess is the bottom line.
And there will be people whowill deny anything's existence,
no matter how real it is.
But it's very unfortunate.
(11:55):
I guess this gets to the nextquestion that I wanted to ask
you, and you alluded to thisearlier when you said sometimes
I'm like, should I even tellthat I have asked this question
a lot by people?
Should I disclose at work?
(12:26):
And if I disclose, what shouldI say?
What shouldn't I say?
And it's a very, very difficultquestion for me to answer
because everybody's situation isso different.
Everybody's mental healthchallenges are different,
everybody's workplace isdifferent, everyone's
(12:46):
supervisors, colleagues,subordinates are different.
So there's really no one answerfor that question.
But my question to you is howdid you wrestle with that
question of do I disclose or not, and how do I do it?
Sheila O'Shea (13:11):
Like I said, for a long stretch I did not even
know what my issue was.
When I believed I haddepression, I was pretty open
about it, as I recall, andgenerally people were pretty
receptive, and it wasn't until Ifound out that I was bipolar
(13:34):
that things got difficult.
Gabe Nathan (13:36):
And how did you navigate it once you received
that bipolar diagnosis and howdid you navigate it once you
received that bipolar diagnosis?
Sheila O'Shea (13:55):
Talking about it and not talking about it may
have cost me a number ofpotential jobs, and I can't do
anything about that.
I do know that when I made itto Publix they didn't ask, so
why did you leave your lastposition?
I cobbled together a resume ofretail jobs I'd worked, filled
(14:16):
out an application and I wasdone.
And I was done, I think prettyearly on I made a point of
informing management that I wasbipolar and I certainly had to
make a point of it when I wasexplaining why I couldn't work
any later than nine o'clock.
Gabe Nathan (14:39):
These days, you know kind of fast forwarding to
now what helps keep you stable,what helps keep you healthy as
someone living with bipolardisorder, medication, that's.
Sheila O'Shea (14:57):
That's the number one one, and also really
listening to my body and what itneeds and having, I guess, sort
of a plan.
I know that medication has acompletely obliterated, you know
(15:22):
, mood episodes.
It's mellowed them and madethem farther apart, but there
are points when I'm starting to,you know, slide into depression
and then, you know, I take iteasy on myself.
I take it easy on myself andone rule I have is if I'm having
(15:44):
a mood episode in eitherdirection, I do not drink.
How does it impact you when youdo drink?
I went through one stretchwhere I quit drinking because I
was getting very worried abouthow much I was indulging.
(16:08):
This was before I was diagnosed, but I was going on.
The impulsivity dragged me intoa lot of drinking binges,
including drinking binges thatled to a loss of memory Really
bad stuff and I just stopped,you know, just quit.
(16:32):
I remember I was working at theHilton and I was explaining to
my supervisor that I needed timeoff to go to Dragon Con.
I needed permission becauseDragon Con is in the same hotel
as the one I was working at atthe time and he asked me if I
was going to drink at any of thebars and I just said I don't
(16:55):
drink, and at that time itdidn't.
And at some point I mellowedout enough that I was able to
drink without getting overboard.
And that's pretty much how Idrink now intermittently and
never in excess.
Gabe Nathan (17:17):
I have a question for you regarding bipolar
disorder and your experiencewith it.
I think when a lot of peoplelearn about bipolar disorder,
they learn about it as okay,there's mania and then there's
depressive episodes and that'skind of it.
(17:40):
It's highs and lows, it's thisor that.
And I would just like to hearfrom you, as someone who lives
with this mental healthchallenge, what is your
experience with it like day today?
What do you feel?
Can you feel yourself kind ofsliding into hypomania or into a
(18:04):
depressive episode?
Are you able to intervene byyourself?
Do you need the help of others?
If you can just talk a littlebit about what it feels like to
live with this mental healthchallenge live with this mental
health challenge.
Sheila O'Shea (18:25):
Well, people divided it between, uh,
hypomania and depression.
Uh, apparently don't know, andI didn't know about a mixed
state, which is basically whenyou're manic and depressive at
the same time.
That's the state I was in, uh,at the start of beyond plusness,
when I was at work and tryingto find some focus on trying to
focus on work and beingcompletely unable to I was like
(18:47):
aggravated.
I was like energetic butdespairing at the same time.
So, first of all is that myusual measure for depression is
that when I'm dealing withdepression, there's a physical
(19:09):
sensation to it and the way Idescribe it is the weight in the
chest.
I mean, it's literally asensation of something heavy.
I can't show you, I'm puttingit right in a sensation of
something heavy.
You know, I can't show you, I'mputting like right in the
middle of my chest.
So that's my big measure as towhether or not I'm depressed.
(19:31):
Hypomania is a little harder.
Harder it's usually when I findmyself, when my impulsivity
(19:52):
goes up more than usual.
I'm capable of being a veryimpulsive person, but when it's
hypomania it's a little morethan that.
And also I get and this is thedirty secret about bipolar is
that it has advantages- and oneof the advantages is
I'm so glad you mentioned that.
Please talk a little bit aboutthat.
(20:14):
Oh sure.
Well, one of the advantages ishow I'm able to focus intensely
on something.
There was one time before I wasdiagnosed and I got an idea for
an epic fantasy series and Ipulled out a notebook and
(20:35):
started taking notes and Ifilled out pages and pages and
pages in a matter of a few daysand I still have the notebook,
but I feel like I need moreknowledge to be able to pull it
off as a literary work.
(20:57):
I mean, if it hadn't been for ahypomanic episode, I would never
have gone to Japan, just havingthat impulse, because I could
tell.
I looked over to my diary andit's like it happened the day
after my boyfriend broke up withme and at that point my
attitude was well, you know, ifI because I've been talking
(21:20):
about going to Japan for a whileand there was sort of this if I
go, I'm going to have to leavebehind.
What am I going to do?
And then he breaks up.
I was like, right, that's it.
Nothing holding me back.
Well, that's that.
So I went and I had really anamazing time and I stayed until.
(21:49):
Well, the problem was that Igot there and I'm all full of
fire and ready to conquer theworld, you know, finding a job,
teaching English and then thedepression hit in and suddenly I
can't peel myself off thesleeping bag I was sleeping in.
Gabe Nathan (22:00):
Yeah, it's a concrete wall, yeah, oh God.
Sheila O'Shea (22:02):
But there have been times when having that
energy, that intensity, can beadvantageous.
Gabe Nathan (22:13):
Has it ever been?
You know that I'll call it ahigh.
Has that high of hypomania everbeen so seductive for you that
you stopped your meds?
No, wow, that's great.
Sheila O'Shea (22:30):
Short answer no Good, because I could
conceivably open the door tohypomania, but I also could open
the door to more severedepression.
Right, right, and given I'mtype 2, I'm more likely to wind
up depressed than hypomanic.
Gabe Nathan (22:48):
Yeah, it's great that you have that awareness.
I used to work at a psychiatrichospital and I saw time and
time again folks with bipolarwho really liked what the
hypomania and even the maniagave them, or what they felt
like it gave them.
And you know, a lot of times itled folks to stopping their
(23:12):
medication because they didn'thave that anymore and they
wanted it back, and for them thegamble of well back, and for
them the gamble of well.
Am I going to slide into a deepdepression or can I ride the
manic high long enough and justenjoy the ride?
For them sometimes it was worthit and it's such a huge risk
(23:35):
and I'm so glad that that hasn'thappened to you.
Sheila O'Shea (23:39):
Oh God, no, oh no , no.
I will admit that there aretimes that I miss hypomania,
Mm-hmm.
I particularly miss the senseof mighty destiny, the sense
that I'm going to conquer theworld, I'm going to be famous,
(24:00):
I'm going to be rich, all thatkind of stuff.
It felt good to have that, butit really is better to have a
more grounded sense of what Ihave and what I'm capable of.
Gabe Nathan (24:15):
Yeah, um, you have referred several times during
this interview to theunpleasantnessed.
I had Bipolar Disorder or theUnpleasantness, and I would love
(24:45):
to hear you read it in your ownvoice when you're ready okay,
sure it started with a cup oftea.
Sheila O'Shea (24:54):
I'd arrived early one morning my new job, as was
my custom and had fixed myself acup of tea, as also was my
custom.
Gazing out, fixed myself a cupof tea, as also was my custom,
gazing out the large windows tothe view of the city.
I saw a perfect sunny day.
I couldn't feel any kind ofpleasure in any of it.
I had a good job that waswilling to take me on after I'd
flamed out so spectacularly atmy previous one.
(25:16):
I had a lovely day ahead of meand I had tea.
I could be happy, I thought tomyself, if I weren't so unhappy.
Almost two decades prior, I wasdiagnosed with depression by a
general practitioner who gave mea prescription for
antidepressants and sent me onmy way.
I went through a variety ofmedications that didn't quite
(25:38):
work, most of them prescribed bya psychiatrist whose modus
operandi seemed to be throwdifferent drugs on the wall and
see what sticks.
When one of my meds exhaustedme, she prescribed an
ADD-treating stimulant to perkme up again.
When I was having troublesleeping, she prescribed an
atypical antipsychotic.
When I finally let her go,because my insurance changed, I
(26:01):
gradually weaned my way off ofeverything until I stopped
completely the lastantidepressants I had.
I gave up for length and neverlooked back.
Now the depression had returned.
I've been staving it off withamino acid supplements, but that
clearly wasn't enough.
I've been dealing with it at myprevious job, but it's affected
my productivity to the pointthat they fired me.
(26:22):
I thought that perhaps workingat a smaller firm wouldn't
stress me out as much, but itseemed that was not the case.
I called my doctor Not apsychiatrist I didn't have one
at the time but someone whocould prescribe medication for
me.
I picked the drug I'd takenthat had worked for a relative
of mine, and she dutifully wroteme a prescription.
I did some internet searches onwhat I was taking to check its
(26:46):
compatibility with otherover-the-counter drugs I was
taking, and I tumbled down arabbit hole in the Wikipedia
page just to land on the one forbipolar disorder type 2.
Up to that point I had no ideabipolar disorder came in
gradations.
I knew only the extremes thatwere said to come with it and I
didn't think of the things I haddone amounted to it.
(27:07):
I mean, there was a time Ibooked a flight to Japan the day
after my boyfriend broke upwith me.
But that's not really mania, isit?
I knew I'd been depressed, butI wasn't always depressed.
Then again, intermittentdepression did make sense if
bipolar was the case.
The antidepressants only mademe shaky and anxious.
I stopped taking them.
One fine Monday morning I cameto work, sat down at my desk and
(27:30):
just couldn't.
I stared at the screen tryingto figure out which task to do
first, and I couldn'tconcentrate enough to pick one
out.
I felt incredibly tense in mybody and yet my mind was
exhausted.
The boss was out of the country, so I talked to the
administrative assistant.
I need to go home and have alie down.
I told her she suggested I gofor a walk around the block.
(27:53):
I did.
As the cars lurched out of theparking deck, I wished one of
them would hit me.
I told the amend that I didn'tfeel any better and she gave me
leave to go home.
I went to my parents' housebecause it was closer and they
weren't using it because theywere on vacation.
I tried to rest, but my mindwas racing too much.
Perhaps I thought I could takea bath to relax myself.
(28:16):
Perhaps I thought I could drownmyself in it.
I went downstairs and called911.
Calling 911 summoned a policeofficer and a social worker.
I glanced nervously at the copwhen I described some of the
things I'd done over the weekend, but he assured me that he was
there to make the social workersafe.
The social worker suggested Igo to the emergency room for
(28:39):
help.
I was able to get a friend todrive me and she kept me company
until I had a room to go to.
I waited for hours.
They were not pleasant ones.
Finally they knocked me outwith some heavy meds and threw
me into an ambulance.
I woke up in a psychiatrictreatment hospital.
My only possessions were in abag I took with me to work,
containing the usual thingWallet, keys, phone, etc.
(29:02):
And a couple of unusual thingsA composition book I'd been
pre-lighting in and a copy ofopen letters, a collection of
the writings of Václav Havel.
They confiscated the phone, butlet me keep the books.
I called a friend to explain Iprobably wouldn't make it for
dinner that week and she camedown for visiting hours.
We met in the cafeteria and Itold her everything that
(29:25):
happened.
She brought me new clothes,toiletries and a comb.
Since I brought none of thosewith me, I still feel I haven't
adequately paid her back forthat.
Psychiatric hospitals are drearyplaces.
They're kind of a combinationof hospital, high school and
prison places.
They're kind of a combinationof hospital, high school and
prison.
I told them that I might bebipolar and they conceded as a
possibility but also suggestedother conditions.
(29:46):
They tried differentmedications on me and I emerged
after a five-day stay with a fewprescriptions and an
appointment with a psychiatrist.
They never told me what mydiagnosis was.
I canceled the appointment andstopped taking the meds.
I wanted more and betteroptions than what I'd been
hastily saddled with.
After less than a week'sinteraction, my parents'
neighbor worked at a mentalillness treatment center with a
(30:08):
thorough diagnostic process.
You want to do that?
My mom asked.
Hell, yes, I replied.
I took tests, interviewed withexperts and even had blood drawn
to make sure my symptoms didn'thave a physical cause outside
the brain.
The final verdict was bipolardisorder type 2.
I called it.
I shouted as I threw my handsup triumphantly.
(30:29):
From there I did outpatienttreatment at the same place for
four months, learning about myillness and how to manage it.
Suddenly a lot of my life madesense, from the moments I felt
like I conquered the world tothe moments I felt crushed under
the weight of it.
Now, when depression hit, Iknew what to do besides take
more pills, which is all I'dever learned before.
Then I learned cognitivebehavioral therapy.
(30:50):
I learned mindfulness.
I learned about myself and mysometimes detrimental coping
mechanisms.
I had my medications refined byseveral different psychiatrists
, all of which I vetted fortheir bedside manner.
I had drugs that didn't work,so tracked in as often as new
ones were added, and I now havea stable combination that keeps
me steady.
I'm in therapy with a counselorwho specializes in CBT.
(31:12):
If a minor mood episode creepsin past the meds, I know exactly
what to do to handle it.
Bipolar disorder left my life,particularly my work life, a bit
of a shambles.
Now that I know what I'm upagainst and have it under
control, I'm able to strive forgreater things and get them done
.
I've held down a steady job formore years than I've worked
anywhere prior to that.
(31:33):
I've started a freelancebusiness and I'm starting to see
income from it.
A long-term art project Istarted while hypomanic is still
going on and I'm determined tosee it all the way through.
The time I spent threshingabout in suicidal ideation and
spending in a psychiatrichospital.
I refer to this day as theunpleasantness.
People who know me well knowexactly what I'm talking about
(31:55):
when I say it.
It wasn't the unpleasant, butit also set my trajectory toward
getting a clear picture of whatour problems stem from.
If I did it again, I'd do itthe same, because what I gained
from it?
If you have your ownunpleasantness, embrace it.
You won't be where you are nowwithout it.
Gabe Nathan (32:14):
Thank you so much for reading that.
I enjoyed that piece so much.
Thank you enjoyed that piece somuch, thank you.
Can you just tell me what itwas like to read that aloud and
look back on that time when youwrote the piece?
Sheila O'Shea (32:33):
Well it's.
It's a distant time.
It was calculated now over adecade ago, so I'm pretty
removed from it.
And in the process of writingthat and in the process of
telling the story to people,explaining what had happened,
(32:58):
that sort of helped me processit.
So there's no sore points aboutit.
I didn't have a great time inthe psychiatric hospital, but I
wasn't necessarily traumatizedby it either.
I mean I don't want to go back,but you know it was.
(33:21):
I feel it was necessary to sortof I know this is going to
sound bad sort of slap me in theface and say yo, o'shea, you're
crazy.
Fun story about that piece thatI just read.
I was at a science fictionconvention called Chatacon,
(33:42):
which happens in January, and myex-boyfriend was there.
We're on good terms.
He sort of bore the brunt of alot of my mood episodes when we
were dating, but still we're ongood terms.
But I was referring to somebodywho knew.
(34:05):
You know, back in theunpleasantness.
You know I mentioned theunpleasantness to a bunch of
people and so he asked me sowhat exactly is the
unpleasantness?
And I said it's a really longstory.
I've got your email, I'll writeit to you.
And then I'm like wait, I'vegot your email, I'll write it to
you.
And then I'm like wait, I'vegot this completely handy
breakdown of what happened.
Gabe Nathan (34:26):
Yeah, you just send him the link.
Sheila O'Shea (34:28):
That is exactly what I did.
I sent him the link and he cameback to me and said something
like I had no idea.
Gabe Nathan (34:37):
Well, the essay is quite a useful tool for you.
Anytime someone wants to knowwhat the unpleasantness is, just
zap it to them.
Yeah, exactly Are you happythat you wrote it.
Sheila O'Shea (34:52):
I am.
I am because I'm a show-off.
Gabe Nathan (34:58):
Do you really believe that, or is that just
you being funny?
Sheila O'Shea (35:02):
No, when it comes to writing, I'm very much a
show-off.
Gabe Nathan (35:07):
Well, if you're going to show off, it's good to
do it with something that you'regood at.
So you definitely are.
I think it's far more.
The piece is far more usefulthan that, because I mean, I
know, being the executivedirector of the organization,
(35:43):
that there's people all over theworld reading this essay who
think that their bipolardisorder is telling them that
they're the only one who feelslike this or has had experiences
like this.
And you know you're here toshow them not only is that not
true, but that you can live withit and live a good life and
manage it, and not have itmanage you.
Sheila O'Shea (35:52):
Thank you.
Gabe Nathan (35:54):
Yeah, I think that's really important.
One of the things that you talkabout is suicidal ideation.
What do you want people tounderstand about feeling that
way?
Sheila O'Shea (36:11):
Well, first off, that's not the only time I've
felt that way.
Gabe Nathan (36:15):
Sure, of course.
Sheila O'Shea (36:20):
You know, there's just been some really bad
moments before and really one ofthe things that held me back
was thinking how much it wouldhurt my family and I would.
Usually, I would usually sort oftalk my way down from it, and
(36:46):
it wasn't until much later inlife that I realized that
talking yourself down fromkilling yourself is not the side
of robust mental health that Imight think it is.
The unpleasantness wasdifferent, because I finally
decided, okay, if we need to dosomething about this, and I
(37:12):
think part of the problem was atthat time, all my family was
down in Florida on vacation.
I was completely by myself interms of my relations, so I
didn't have that support system.
It's interesting I'd read ablog post on a blog called
(37:43):
Captain Awkward, which is anadvice column basically, but
there was like a guest post fromsomebody which is basically
what being in a mental hospitalis like and it sort of
demystified it.
And it sort of demystified itand I said, well, that doesn't
(38:08):
sound 100% awful.
Maybe I'll just do that insteadof try to talk myself down from
it again.
Gabe Nathan (38:18):
That's so interesting because, as a former
staff member at a lockedinpatient psychiatric hospital,
as a former staff member at alocked inpatient psychiatric
(38:38):
hospital, I think one of themost detrimental things are and
this is not to deny anybody'sexperience people who have
experienced trauma in theseplaces, and not just patients,
staff as well, and so I want toacknowledge that and so I want
(39:09):
to acknowledge that.
But I think that yourdescription of a psych facility
resonated with me so hardbecause it felt so true and that
it is mostly a boring,institutionalized setting where
not much happens.
And I think that a bigdisservice is done when people
publish kind of sensationalizedhorror stories about psychiatric
facilities because they caninhibit help seeking.
And I don't like thesefacilities and that's again as
someone who made his living forfive years working at one.
I wish they didn't have toexist.
(39:30):
Unfortunately they do, becausepeople in a crisis or people
with serious and persistentmental illness who are often
unmedicated.
There's a danger there andsometimes, you know, people do
need facilities like this to bestabilized for the short term.
(39:51):
So I think it's so interestingthat reading that piece helped
you understand that.
You know, maybe this isn't sohorrible, maybe it's not like
cuckoo's nest.
Maybe I can do something and goto this place and maybe it'll
help me be okay.
Sheila O'Shea (40:11):
Yeah, I've rumbled widely about the
stereotypes about a mentalhospital.
I did a stand-up routine aboutbeing bipolar.
One of the bits I had was youknow that people think bipolar
(40:31):
disorder plays with like paddedwalls and straight jackets and
sexy nurses injecting you andall this stuff.
And I said you know, inactuality, mental hospitals are
bleeping boring yeah.
Gabe Nathan (40:48):
It's part of the big problem is that I used to
work in activities and it waslike you want to have something
on the schedule every singlehour for folks to do.
But even that stuff isn't veryinteresting and it's a lot of
time just pacing the halls orsitting in the hall and you know
, waiting for meals and waitingfor med time and waiting to see
(41:09):
your psychiatrist and it's a lotof waiting.
Waiting to be discharged isreally what the vast majority of
it is.
So thank you for adding anhonest and nuanced portrayal to
it.
I think that's helpful and I'mjust so grateful that you
(41:33):
trusted Recovery Diaries, notonce but twice, to be a
caretaker for your writing, forparts of your story, and I'm
grateful to you for spendingsome time with me today.
So thank you.
Sheila O'Shea (41:45):
You're welcome.
Gabe Nathan (41:46):
It's a pleasure getting to talk with you,
wishing you all the best.
Sheila O'Shea (41:49):
Thank you.
Gabe Nathan (41:54):
Thank you again for joining us in conversation
today.
It's beautiful to see theprogression of our contributors.
Thank you so much to SheilaO'Shea.
She's a writer who lives withbipolar disorder, writing and
speaking to us from Georgia.
Sheila's super cool project iscalled 10,000 Flowers.
You can find out about it atwonderbankcom backslash
(42:16):
10kflowers.
You can read some of herwriting at SheilaWrites.
com and, of course, on our site,oc87recoverydiaries.
org.
Before we leave you, we want toremind you to check out our
website, recoverydiaries.
org.
There, like this podcast,you'll find additional stories,
(42:38):
videos and content about mentalhealth, empowerment and change.
We look forward to continuingto grow our community.
Thank you so much for being apart of it.
We wouldn't be here without you.
Be sure to join our mailinglist so you never miss a podcast
episode, essay or film.
I'm Gabe Nathan.
Until next time, take good care.
Hello, this is Recovery Diaries In-Depth.
I'm your host, Gabe Nathan.
Thanks so much for joining us.
We're very happy to have youhere Today.
We have as our guest SheilaO'Shea.
She's a writer who lives withbipolar disorder in Georgia.
You can find out about aproject that she is working on.
It is called 10,000 Flowers.
(00:21):
That is at wonderbink.
com.
You can read some of herwriting at sheilawrites.
com, and she has not one, buttwo essays on our site at
oc87recoverydiaries.
org.
Each week we'll bring you aRecovery Diaries contributor
folks who have shared theirmental health journey with us
(00:42):
through essay or video format.
We want to see where they arein their mental health journey
since initially being publishedon our website.
Our goal is to continuesupporting our diverse community
by having conversations here onour podcast to follow up and
see what has shifted, what haschanged and what new things have
emerged.
We're so happy to have youalong for this journey.
(01:04):
We want to remind you to followour show for new and back
episodes at recoverydiariesorg.
There, like the podcast, you'llfind stories of mental health,
empowerment and change.
You can also sign up for ourmailing list there so you never
miss a new podcast episode,essay or film, and you can find
this podcast pretty muchanywhere you get your podcasts.
(01:25):
We appreciate your comments andfeedback about our show.
It helps us improve, makechanges and grow and, of course,
make sure to like, share andsubscribe Sheila O'Shea.
Thank you so so much forjoining us for this conversation
on Recovery Diaries in depth.
(01:46):
It is great to have you here.
Sheila O'Shea (01:48):
I'm glad to be here.
So, I'm just going to start offwith how are you today?
I'm doing pretty well, knocked out four hours at
my little work-from-home job,which has been absolutely
(02:09):
glorious since working in thepublic, since I could set my own
hours and take a nap in themiddle of the day and work late
if I need to, not work late if Idon't, and the work's pretty
good.
And the work's pretty good.
(02:30):
It's stimulating.
Gabe Nathan (02:32):
So you live with bipolar disorder, type 2, is
that right?
That is correct.
A little bit about, since westarted out talking about work,
can you talk a little bit aboutsort of work-life balance and
why, like everybody talks about,oh, it's so important to have
(02:52):
work-life balance and to haveprofessional boundaries and
things like that.
But I think a lot of peopletalk about it in a really
nebulous general way.
That's fine for the generalpublic, but I think when you
live with a serious mentalillness it's, for lack of a
better word, more serious.
So I would love to hear aboutthat from you.
Sheila O'Shea (03:16):
Well, I'm not 100% sure how to answer that
question because my work historyup to about this point was a
series of catastrophes In turn.
You know I would have to sortof rest.
What balance I could get out ofwhatever job I was working.
(03:42):
You know, of whatever job I wasworking, you know it's like I
said, I take a nap in the middleof the day.
When I worked the last job, Iworked the job that I was
working at when theunpleasantness happened.
I would sleep under my well, Iwouldn't sleep, I would rest,
but I would curl up my coat andcurl up under my desk to have
(04:08):
some kind of rest and some wayto decompress.
So that's a really difficultquestion for me to answer
because I haven't been in toomany situations where work-life
balance has been a priority intoo many situations where
work-life balance has been apriority.
I think this may be the firstjob I've had where I've really
(04:29):
had that.
Gabe Nathan (04:31):
And what has that been like for you?
Sheila O'Shea (04:37):
It's really been wonderful because I can work on
my own rhythms.
I'm pretty stringent about whenI work.
I try to do 7 to noon and then2 to 5.
But if I wind up oversleeping,I just live with that.
I work around that.
I like that.
(05:00):
I don't have to customerservice anybody anymore.
I like that.
I don't have to customerservice anybody anymore.
You know, and I think in someway I like the fact that
communication is primarilywritten, because that's my
strong point.
I don't do well having to thinkon my feet when you know,
(05:24):
conversing with somebody,especially about a really
stressful situation.
When I'm typing something inSlack or whatever, I can weigh
my words.
I can go back and fix typos.
I can go back and say no, thisword would work better, and then
hit send.
Gabe Nathan (05:41):
So I'm going to get kind of meta on you.
I'm super interested by whatyou just said about spontaneous
communication and about how youperceive that it's not really
your strength.
Is it making this interviewhard?
Sheila O'Shea (06:01):
Not really because it's a different
situation.
Not really because it's adifferent situation.
We're both on the same pageabout mental health and it's
important, For sure.
Gabe Nathan (06:18):
The harder push.
We're dealing with people whojust don't get it.
And specifically when I saypeople, let's talk about
employers.
Do you feel that there's a lackof overall understanding of
mental illness and how itimpacts people in the workplace?
I'll just start with thatquestion.
Sheila O'Shea (06:37):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I had a lot of Granted for alot of the stretch that I was
humbling my way through my workhistory.
I didn't know what my issue was.
I had been misdiagnosed withdepression, because bipolar II
(07:05):
has a lot in common withdepression.
There are, unlike bipolar 1,bipolar 2 has more depressive
episodes.
If you were hypomanic ones,then then bipolar 1 does.
Uh, so I was, you know,basically taking the wrong drugs
, undergoing the wrongtreatments and I don't know,
(07:31):
people don't get it a lot.
And I think the hardest partwas when I was looking for a job
.
After the unpleasantness afterthe unpleasantness it was, I
(07:51):
kept trying to figure out how totell people, if I should tell
people.
For a while I hedged it as Iwas having health issues.
And then other times I said Iwas diagnosed with bipolar
disorder.
And I remember there was oneinterview I had.
It was for a company I reallywanted to work for and when they
(08:15):
got to the so why did you leave?
Less Than Soap?
And I'm like, well, I had to gointo treatment for bipolar
disorder.
They said, oh, and they kind ofwent oh my gosh, we've had an
emergency, we'll get back to you, and ended the interview and
they never got back to me and Icannot help but be convinced
(08:36):
that it was because I told them.
Gabe Nathan (08:38):
Yeah.
So here's the thing about that.
I have so much that I want tosay about that no-transcript.
(09:17):
Even know what they're scaredof.
Sheila O'Shea (09:20):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I'll say that I think.
I mean I didn't know there weretwo kinds of bipolar until just
before I was diagnosed.
That's not a very you know frommovies and TV show, just this
(09:50):
exaggerated and inaccurateperception, it's just synonymous
with crazy.
I feel like it's just a synonymfor crazy in most people's mind
and they're like well, I don'twant to hire crazy, just a
synonym for crazy in mostpeople's mind and they're like
well, I don't want to hire crazy, yeah, and I think bipolar has
(10:10):
a big stigma.
Depressions is, I guess, alittle more acceptable than
bipolar, because bipolar has,you know, mania and hypomania
kind of lurking around thecorner and, oh my God, what is
this person going to do whenthey get up there?
Gabe Nathan (10:29):
Yeah, and how is this going to affect my bottom
line?
I mean, that's what anemployer's really concerned
about.
Is this going to make mycompany look bad?
Am I going to lose money orcustomers or clients because of
this person?
And it's just, it's sofrustrating to know that people
(10:49):
like you carry the burden Iguess is the word I'll use of
educating other people, peoplein the workplace about your
mental health challenge and kindof constantly having to
reassure them that you're not athreat to their, their business
(11:12):
or whatever it is I've had todeal with people who think
bipolar doesn't exist.
Sheila O'Shea (11:18):
I, I had yeah, I had to deal with somebody that's
like, well, everybody's gottheir up moods and their down
moods.
It's like, okay.
.
.
Gabe Nathan (11:24):
Oh, wow.
Sheila O'Shea (11:25):
It's like, okay, do your up moods involve booking
international flights onimpulse and do your down moods
involve suicidal ideation.
Gabe Nathan (11:31):
Yeah, and that's unbelievable.
It's unbelievable that you evenhave to have conversations like
that with people.
But of course there are alsopeople who believe that Sandy
Hook and the Holocaust didn'thappen.
So people are dumb.
I guess is the bottom line, andthere will be people who
believe that Sandy Hook and theHolocaust didn't happen.
So people are dumb.
I guess is the bottom line.
And there will be people whowill deny anything's existence,
no matter how real it is.
But it's very unfortunate.
(11:55):
I guess this gets to the nextquestion that I wanted to ask
you, and you alluded to thisearlier when you said sometimes
I'm like, should I even tellthat I have asked this question
a lot by people?
Should I disclose at work?
(12:26):
And if I disclose, what shouldI say?
What shouldn't I say?
And it's a very, very difficultquestion for me to answer
because everybody's situation isso different.
Everybody's mental healthchallenges are different,
everybody's workplace isdifferent, everyone's
(12:46):
supervisors, colleagues,subordinates are different.
So there's really no one answerfor that question.
But my question to you is howdid you wrestle with that
question of do I disclose or not, and how do I do it?
Sheila O'Shea (13:11):
Like I said, for a long stretch I did not even
know what my issue was.
When I believed I haddepression, I was pretty open
about it, as I recall, andgenerally people were pretty
receptive, and it wasn't until Ifound out that I was bipolar
(13:34):
that things got difficult.
Gabe Nathan (13:36):
And how did you navigate it once you received
that bipolar diagnosis and howdid you navigate it once you
received that bipolar diagnosis?
Sheila O'Shea (13:55):
Talking about it and not talking about it may
have cost me a number ofpotential jobs, and I can't do
anything about that.
I do know that when I made itto Publix they didn't ask, so
why did you leave your lastposition?
I cobbled together a resume ofretail jobs I'd worked, filled
(14:16):
out an application and I wasdone.
And I was done, I think prettyearly on I made a point of
informing management that I wasbipolar and I certainly had to
make a point of it when I wasexplaining why I couldn't work
any later than nine o'clock.
Gabe Nathan (14:39):
These days, you know kind of fast forwarding to
now what helps keep you stable,what helps keep you healthy as
someone living with bipolardisorder, medication, that's.
Sheila O'Shea (14:57):
That's the number one one, and also really
listening to my body and what itneeds and having, I guess, sort
of a plan.
I know that medication has acompletely obliterated, you know
(15:22):
, mood episodes.
It's mellowed them and madethem farther apart, but there
are points when I'm starting to,you know, slide into depression
and then, you know, I take iteasy on myself.
I take it easy on myself andone rule I have is if I'm having
(15:44):
a mood episode in eitherdirection, I do not drink.
How does it impact you when youdo drink?
I went through one stretchwhere I quit drinking because I
was getting very worried abouthow much I was indulging.
(16:08):
This was before I was diagnosed, but I was going on.
The impulsivity dragged me intoa lot of drinking binges,
including drinking binges thatled to a loss of memory Really
bad stuff and I just stopped,you know, just quit.
(16:32):
I remember I was working at theHilton and I was explaining to
my supervisor that I needed timeoff to go to Dragon Con.
I needed permission becauseDragon Con is in the same hotel
as the one I was working at atthe time and he asked me if I
was going to drink at any of thebars and I just said I don't
(16:55):
drink, and at that time itdidn't.
And at some point I mellowedout enough that I was able to
drink without getting overboard.
And that's pretty much how Idrink now intermittently and
never in excess.
Gabe Nathan (17:17):
I have a question for you regarding bipolar
disorder and your experiencewith it.
I think when a lot of peoplelearn about bipolar disorder,
they learn about it as okay,there's mania and then there's
depressive episodes and that'skind of it.
(17:40):
It's highs and lows, it's thisor that.
And I would just like to hearfrom you, as someone who lives
with this mental healthchallenge, what is your
experience with it like day today?
What do you feel?
Can you feel yourself kind ofsliding into hypomania or into a
(18:04):
depressive episode?
Are you able to intervene byyourself?
Do you need the help of others?
If you can just talk a littlebit about what it feels like to
live with this mental healthchallenge live with this mental
health challenge.
Sheila O'Shea (18:25):
Well, people divided it between, uh,
hypomania and depression.
Uh, apparently don't know, andI didn't know about a mixed
state, which is basically whenyou're manic and depressive at
the same time.
That's the state I was in, uh,at the start of beyond plusness,
when I was at work and tryingto find some focus on trying to
focus on work and beingcompletely unable to I was like
(18:47):
aggravated.
I was like energetic butdespairing at the same time.
So, first of all is that myusual measure for depression is
that when I'm dealing withdepression, there's a physical
(19:09):
sensation to it and the way Idescribe it is the weight in the
chest.
I mean, it's literally asensation of something heavy.
I can't show you, I'm puttingit right in a sensation of
something heavy.
You know, I can't show you, I'mputting like right in the
middle of my chest.
So that's my big measure as towhether or not I'm depressed.
(19:31):
Hypomania is a little harder.
Harder it's usually when I findmyself, when my impulsivity
(19:52):
goes up more than usual.
I'm capable of being a veryimpulsive person, but when it's
hypomania it's a little morethan that.
And also I get and this is thedirty secret about bipolar is
that it has advantages- and oneof the advantages is
I'm so glad you mentioned that.
Please talk a little bit aboutthat.
(20:14):
Oh sure.
Well, one of the advantages ishow I'm able to focus intensely
on something.
There was one time before I wasdiagnosed and I got an idea for
an epic fantasy series and Ipulled out a notebook and
(20:35):
started taking notes and Ifilled out pages and pages and
pages in a matter of a few daysand I still have the notebook,
but I feel like I need moreknowledge to be able to pull it
off as a literary work.
(20:57):
I mean, if it hadn't been for ahypomanic episode, I would never
have gone to Japan, just havingthat impulse, because I could
tell.
I looked over to my diary andit's like it happened the day
after my boyfriend broke up withme and at that point my
attitude was well, you know, ifI because I've been talking
(21:20):
about going to Japan for a whileand there was sort of this if I
go, I'm going to have to leavebehind.
What am I going to do?
And then he breaks up.
I was like, right, that's it.
Nothing holding me back.
Well, that's that.
So I went and I had really anamazing time and I stayed until.
(21:49):
Well, the problem was that Igot there and I'm all full of
fire and ready to conquer theworld, you know, finding a job,
teaching English and then thedepression hit in and suddenly I
can't peel myself off thesleeping bag I was sleeping in.
Gabe Nathan (22:00):
Yeah, it's a concrete wall, yeah, oh God.
Sheila O'Shea (22:02):
But there have been times when having that
energy, that intensity, can beadvantageous.
Gabe Nathan (22:13):
Has it ever been?
You know that I'll call it ahigh.
Has that high of hypomania everbeen so seductive for you that
you stopped your meds?
No, wow, that's great.
Sheila O'Shea (22:30):
Short answer no Good, because I could
conceivably open the door tohypomania, but I also could open
the door to more severedepression.
Right, right, and given I'mtype 2, I'm more likely to wind
up depressed than hypomanic.
Gabe Nathan (22:48):
Yeah, it's great that you have that awareness.
I used to work at a psychiatrichospital and I saw time and
time again folks with bipolarwho really liked what the
hypomania and even the maniagave them, or what they felt
like it gave them.
And you know, a lot of times itled folks to stopping their
(23:12):
medication because they didn'thave that anymore and they
wanted it back, and for them thegamble of well back, and for
them the gamble of well.
Am I going to slide into a deepdepression or can I ride the
manic high long enough and justenjoy the ride?
For them sometimes it was worthit and it's such a huge risk
(23:35):
and I'm so glad that that hasn'thappened to you.
Sheila O'Shea (23:39):
Oh God, no, oh no , no.
I will admit that there aretimes that I miss hypomania,
Mm-hmm.
I particularly miss the senseof mighty destiny, the sense
that I'm going to conquer theworld, I'm going to be famous,
(24:00):
I'm going to be rich, all thatkind of stuff.
It felt good to have that, butit really is better to have a
more grounded sense of what Ihave and what I'm capable of.
Gabe Nathan (24:15):
Yeah, um, you have referred several times during
this interview to theunpleasantnessed.
I had Bipolar Disorder or theUnpleasantness, and I would love
(24:45):
to hear you read it in your ownvoice when you're ready okay,
sure it started with a cup oftea.
Sheila O'Shea (24:54):
I'd arrived early one morning my new job, as was
my custom and had fixed myself acup of tea, as also was my
custom.
Gazing out, fixed myself a cupof tea, as also was my custom,
gazing out the large windows tothe view of the city.
I saw a perfect sunny day.
I couldn't feel any kind ofpleasure in any of it.
I had a good job that waswilling to take me on after I'd
flamed out so spectacularly atmy previous one.
(25:16):
I had a lovely day ahead of meand I had tea.
I could be happy, I thought tomyself, if I weren't so unhappy.
Almost two decades prior, I wasdiagnosed with depression by a
general practitioner who gave mea prescription for
antidepressants and sent me onmy way.
I went through a variety ofmedications that didn't quite
(25:38):
work, most of them prescribed bya psychiatrist whose modus
operandi seemed to be throwdifferent drugs on the wall and
see what sticks.
When one of my meds exhaustedme, she prescribed an
ADD-treating stimulant to perkme up again.
When I was having troublesleeping, she prescribed an
atypical antipsychotic.
When I finally let her go,because my insurance changed, I
(26:01):
gradually weaned my way off ofeverything until I stopped
completely the lastantidepressants I had.
I gave up for length and neverlooked back.
Now the depression had returned.
I've been staving it off withamino acid supplements, but that
clearly wasn't enough.
I've been dealing with it at myprevious job, but it's affected
my productivity to the pointthat they fired me.
(26:22):
I thought that perhaps workingat a smaller firm wouldn't
stress me out as much, but itseemed that was not the case.
I called my doctor Not apsychiatrist I didn't have one
at the time but someone whocould prescribe medication for
me.
I picked the drug I'd takenthat had worked for a relative
of mine, and she dutifully wroteme a prescription.
I did some internet searches onwhat I was taking to check its
(26:46):
compatibility with otherover-the-counter drugs I was
taking, and I tumbled down arabbit hole in the Wikipedia
page just to land on the one forbipolar disorder type 2.
Up to that point I had no ideabipolar disorder came in
gradations.
I knew only the extremes thatwere said to come with it and I
didn't think of the things I haddone amounted to it.
(27:07):
I mean, there was a time Ibooked a flight to Japan the day
after my boyfriend broke upwith me.
But that's not really mania, isit?
I knew I'd been depressed, butI wasn't always depressed.
Then again, intermittentdepression did make sense if
bipolar was the case.
The antidepressants only mademe shaky and anxious.
I stopped taking them.
One fine Monday morning I cameto work, sat down at my desk and
(27:30):
just couldn't.
I stared at the screen tryingto figure out which task to do
first, and I couldn'tconcentrate enough to pick one
out.
I felt incredibly tense in mybody and yet my mind was
exhausted.
The boss was out of the country, so I talked to the
administrative assistant.
I need to go home and have alie down.
I told her she suggested I gofor a walk around the block.
(27:53):
I did.
As the cars lurched out of theparking deck, I wished one of
them would hit me.
I told the amend that I didn'tfeel any better and she gave me
leave to go home.
I went to my parents' housebecause it was closer and they
weren't using it because theywere on vacation.
I tried to rest, but my mindwas racing too much.
Perhaps I thought I could takea bath to relax myself.
(28:16):
Perhaps I thought I could drownmyself in it.
I went downstairs and called911.
Calling 911 summoned a policeofficer and a social worker.
I glanced nervously at the copwhen I described some of the
things I'd done over the weekend, but he assured me that he was
there to make the social workersafe.
The social worker suggested Igo to the emergency room for
(28:39):
help.
I was able to get a friend todrive me and she kept me company
until I had a room to go to.
I waited for hours.
They were not pleasant ones.
Finally they knocked me outwith some heavy meds and threw
me into an ambulance.
I woke up in a psychiatrictreatment hospital.
My only possessions were in abag I took with me to work,
containing the usual thingWallet, keys, phone, etc.
(29:02):
And a couple of unusual thingsA composition book I'd been
pre-lighting in and a copy ofopen letters, a collection of
the writings of Václav Havel.
They confiscated the phone, butlet me keep the books.
I called a friend to explain Iprobably wouldn't make it for
dinner that week and she camedown for visiting hours.
We met in the cafeteria and Itold her everything that
(29:25):
happened.
She brought me new clothes,toiletries and a comb.
Since I brought none of thosewith me, I still feel I haven't
adequately paid her back forthat.
Psychiatric hospitals are drearyplaces.
They're kind of a combinationof hospital, high school and
prison places.
They're kind of a combinationof hospital, high school and
prison.
I told them that I might bebipolar and they conceded as a
possibility but also suggestedother conditions.
(29:46):
They tried differentmedications on me and I emerged
after a five-day stay with a fewprescriptions and an
appointment with a psychiatrist.
They never told me what mydiagnosis was.
I canceled the appointment andstopped taking the meds.
I wanted more and betteroptions than what I'd been
hastily saddled with.
After less than a week'sinteraction, my parents'
neighbor worked at a mentalillness treatment center with a
(30:08):
thorough diagnostic process.
You want to do that?
My mom asked.
Hell, yes, I replied.
I took tests, interviewed withexperts and even had blood drawn
to make sure my symptoms didn'thave a physical cause outside
the brain.
The final verdict was bipolardisorder type 2.
I called it.
I shouted as I threw my handsup triumphantly.
(30:29):
From there I did outpatienttreatment at the same place for
four months, learning about myillness and how to manage it.
Suddenly a lot of my life madesense, from the moments I felt
like I conquered the world tothe moments I felt crushed under
the weight of it.
Now, when depression hit, Iknew what to do besides take
more pills, which is all I'dever learned before.
Then I learned cognitivebehavioral therapy.
(30:50):
I learned mindfulness.
I learned about myself and mysometimes detrimental coping
mechanisms.
I had my medications refined byseveral different psychiatrists
, all of which I vetted fortheir bedside manner.
I had drugs that didn't work,so tracked in as often as new
ones were added, and I now havea stable combination that keeps
me steady.
I'm in therapy with a counselorwho specializes in CBT.
(31:12):
If a minor mood episode creepsin past the meds, I know exactly
what to do to handle it.
Bipolar disorder left my life,particularly my work life, a bit
of a shambles.
Now that I know what I'm upagainst and have it under
control, I'm able to strive forgreater things and get them done
.
I've held down a steady job formore years than I've worked
anywhere prior to that.
(31:33):
I've started a freelancebusiness and I'm starting to see
income from it.
A long-term art project Istarted while hypomanic is still
going on and I'm determined tosee it all the way through.
The time I spent threshingabout in suicidal ideation and
spending in a psychiatrichospital.
I refer to this day as theunpleasantness.
People who know me well knowexactly what I'm talking about
(31:55):
when I say it.
It wasn't the unpleasant, butit also set my trajectory toward
getting a clear picture of whatour problems stem from.
If I did it again, I'd do itthe same, because what I gained
from it?
If you have your ownunpleasantness, embrace it.
You won't be where you are nowwithout it.
Gabe Nathan (32:14):
Thank you so much for reading that.
I enjoyed that piece so much.
Thank you enjoyed that piece somuch, thank you.
Can you just tell me what itwas like to read that aloud and
look back on that time when youwrote the piece?
Sheila O'Shea (32:33):
Well it's.
It's a distant time.
It was calculated now over adecade ago, so I'm pretty
removed from it.
And in the process of writingthat and in the process of
telling the story to people,explaining what had happened,
(32:58):
that sort of helped me processit.
So there's no sore points aboutit.
I didn't have a great time inthe psychiatric hospital, but I
wasn't necessarily traumatizedby it either.
I mean I don't want to go back,but you know it was.
(33:21):
I feel it was necessary to sortof I know this is going to
sound bad sort of slap me in theface and say yo, o'shea, you're
crazy.
Fun story about that piece thatI just read.
I was at a science fictionconvention called Chatacon,
(33:42):
which happens in January, and myex-boyfriend was there.
We're on good terms.
He sort of bore the brunt of alot of my mood episodes when we
were dating, but still we're ongood terms.
But I was referring to somebodywho knew.
(34:05):
You know, back in theunpleasantness.
You know I mentioned theunpleasantness to a bunch of
people and so he asked me sowhat exactly is the
unpleasantness?
And I said it's a really longstory.
I've got your email, I'll writeit to you.
And then I'm like wait, I'vegot your email, I'll write it to
you.
And then I'm like wait, I'vegot this completely handy
breakdown of what happened.
Gabe Nathan (34:26):
Yeah, you just send him the link.
Sheila O'Shea (34:28):
That is exactly what I did.
I sent him the link and he cameback to me and said something
like I had no idea.
Gabe Nathan (34:37):
Well, the essay is quite a useful tool for you.
Anytime someone wants to knowwhat the unpleasantness is, just
zap it to them.
Yeah, exactly Are you happythat you wrote it.
Sheila O'Shea (34:52):
I am.
I am because I'm a show-off.
Gabe Nathan (34:58):
Do you really believe that, or is that just
you being funny?
Sheila O'Shea (35:02):
No, when it comes to writing, I'm very much a
show-off.
Gabe Nathan (35:07):
Well, if you're going to show off, it's good to
do it with something that you'regood at.
So you definitely are.
I think it's far more.
The piece is far more usefulthan that, because I mean, I
know, being the executivedirector of the organization,
(35:43):
that there's people all over theworld reading this essay who
think that their bipolardisorder is telling them that
they're the only one who feelslike this or has had experiences
like this.
And you know you're here toshow them not only is that not
true, but that you can live withit and live a good life and
manage it, and not have itmanage you.
Sheila O'Shea (35:52):
Thank you.
Gabe Nathan (35:54):
Yeah, I think that's really important.
One of the things that you talkabout is suicidal ideation.
What do you want people tounderstand about feeling that
way?
Sheila O'Shea (36:11):
Well, first off, that's not the only time I've
felt that way.
Gabe Nathan (36:15):
Sure, of course.
Sheila O'Shea (36:20):
You know, there's just been some really bad
moments before and really one ofthe things that held me back
was thinking how much it wouldhurt my family and I would.
Usually, I would usually sort oftalk my way down from it, and
(36:46):
it wasn't until much later inlife that I realized that
talking yourself down fromkilling yourself is not the side
of robust mental health that Imight think it is.
The unpleasantness wasdifferent, because I finally
decided, okay, if we need to dosomething about this, and I
(37:12):
think part of the problem was atthat time, all my family was
down in Florida on vacation.
I was completely by myself interms of my relations, so I
didn't have that support system.
It's interesting I'd read ablog post on a blog called
(37:43):
Captain Awkward, which is anadvice column basically, but
there was like a guest post fromsomebody which is basically
what being in a mental hospitalis like and it sort of
demystified it.
And it sort of demystified itand I said, well, that doesn't
(38:08):
sound 100% awful.
Maybe I'll just do that insteadof try to talk myself down from
it again.
Gabe Nathan (38:18):
That's so interesting because, as a former
staff member at a lockedinpatient psychiatric hospital,
as a former staff member at alocked inpatient psychiatric
(38:38):
hospital, I think one of themost detrimental things are and
this is not to deny anybody'sexperience people who have
experienced trauma in theseplaces, and not just patients,
staff as well, and so I want toacknowledge that and so I want
(39:09):
to acknowledge that.
But I think that yourdescription of a psych facility
resonated with me so hardbecause it felt so true and that
it is mostly a boring,institutionalized setting where
not much happens.
And I think that a bigdisservice is done when people
publish kind of sensationalizedhorror stories about psychiatric
facilities because they caninhibit help seeking.
And I don't like thesefacilities and that's again as
someone who made his living forfive years working at one.
I wish they didn't have toexist.
(39:30):
Unfortunately they do, becausepeople in a crisis or people
with serious and persistentmental illness who are often
unmedicated.
There's a danger there andsometimes, you know, people do
need facilities like this to bestabilized for the short term.
(39:51):
So I think it's so interestingthat reading that piece helped
you understand that.
You know, maybe this isn't sohorrible, maybe it's not like
cuckoo's nest.
Maybe I can do something and goto this place and maybe it'll
help me be okay.
Sheila O'Shea (40:11):
Yeah, I've rumbled widely about the
stereotypes about a mentalhospital.
I did a stand-up routine aboutbeing bipolar.
One of the bits I had was youknow that people think bipolar
(40:31):
disorder plays with like paddedwalls and straight jackets and
sexy nurses injecting you andall this stuff.
And I said you know, inactuality, mental hospitals are
bleeping boring yeah.
Gabe Nathan (40:48):
It's part of the big problem is that I used to
work in activities and it waslike you want to have something
on the schedule every singlehour for folks to do.
But even that stuff isn't veryinteresting and it's a lot of
time just pacing the halls orsitting in the hall and you know
, waiting for meals and waitingfor med time and waiting to see
(41:09):
your psychiatrist and it's a lotof waiting.
Waiting to be discharged isreally what the vast majority of
it is.
So thank you for adding anhonest and nuanced portrayal to
it.
I think that's helpful and I'mjust so grateful that you
(41:33):
trusted Recovery Diaries, notonce but twice, to be a
caretaker for your writing, forparts of your story, and I'm
grateful to you for spendingsome time with me today.
So thank you.
Sheila O'Shea (41:45):
You're welcome.
Gabe Nathan (41:46):
It's a pleasure getting to talk with you,
wishing you all the best.
Sheila O'Shea (41:49):
Thank you.
Gabe Nathan (41:54):
Thank you again for joining us in conversation
today.
It's beautiful to see theprogression of our contributors.
Thank you so much to SheilaO'Shea.
She's a writer who lives withbipolar disorder, writing and
speaking to us from Georgia.
Sheila's super cool project iscalled 10,000 Flowers.
You can find out about it atwonderbankcom backslash
(42:16):
10kflowers.
You can read some of herwriting at SheilaWrites.
com and, of course, on our site,oc87recoverydiaries.
org.
Before we leave you, we want toremind you to check out our
website, recoverydiaries.
org.
There, like this podcast,you'll find additional stories,
(42:38):
videos and content about mentalhealth, empowerment and change.
We look forward to continuingto grow our community.
Thank you so much for being apart of it.
We wouldn't be here without you.
Be sure to join our mailinglist so you never miss a podcast
episode, essay or film.
I'm Gabe Nathan.
Until next time, take good care.
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