In this episode, we talk about a devastating crisis that unfolded this year in the San Francisco Bay. March to June 2025 saw an unprecedented 36 gray whales enter, and stay for extended periods in one of the West coast's busiest waterways. The result? A staggering mortality rate with over 20 dead whales—roughly half of all observed individuals—primarily from vessal strikes. We wanted to find out why and what can be and is being done about it. Scott Mercer brought in Josie Slaathaug (pronounced Slot-Howg) to talk about it. She's a cetacean specialist at the Marine Mammal Center and Sonoma State University graduate researcher. She created and maintained the bay's gray whale photo ID catalog, and shares how this extraordinary year contrasts sharply with 2024's minimal whale presence. Most disturbing is that many were, malnourished whales—yet many were in good body condition, actively feeding, and displaying rich social behaviors rarely documented in the bay before: spy hopping, chin slapping, bubble blowing, and forming tight pairs. The maritime community's response offers a glimmer of hope despite the heartbreak. Ferry captains shared real-time whale locations, vessels rerouted especially during nighttime hours, and the Coast Guard broadcast regular whale alerts. Despite these coordinated efforts, vessel strikes still claimed too many lives. Slaathaug's research, matching carcasses to living whales photographed days earlier, paints a poignant picture of an individual whale's final days. How might climate change and shifting Arctic feeding grounds be altering migration patterns? Can we develop more proactive protection measures before next year's migration? We talk about that and more.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (00:10):
Welcome to the Resilient Earth Podcast,
where we talk with speakers fromthe United States and around
the world about the criticalissues facing our planet and the
positive actions people aretaking.
It's July 4th, 2025, friday.
(00:40):
Today, we're going to talkabout what is happening close by
in the Bay of San Francisco,right here in Northern
California.
We thought it was important toraise awareness about the high
mortality rate recently of thegray whale population that has
(01:01):
been visiting this busy andheavily trafficked San Francisco
Bay this year from about Marchto early June.
Why is it happening and why didit happen?
What can be done about it?
Scott found a terrificspecialist, a cetacean
specialist, at the Marine MammalCenter in Sausalito, the
(01:24):
world's largest marine hospitalin the world, and it's their
50th anniversary.
Her name is Josie Slaathaugh(pronounced Slot-Howg), and in
2023, Josie joined the MarineMammal Center as a cetacean
ecology intern and is workingnow on her master's degree at
Sonoma State University.
(01:44):
The photo ID catalog which shecreated and maintains now
contains over 100 whales and keydata from that shows increased
whales entering the bay thisyear at a total of 36, many of
which were malnourished and mostof which stayed for more than
30 days and then because of thedense traffic in the bay.
(02:08):
Tragically they died by vesselstrikes.
More than 20 whales have diedin the area this year 15 or 16,
which were in the bay itself.
We're going to talk about thatnext, but first a word from our
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Josie Slaathaug (03:04):
Nice to meet you.
Scott and Tree and Leigh Anne.
Awesome to put faces to thenames, Exactly right.
Scott Mercer (03:11):
What we thought we'd do is let you introduce
yourself and give us yourbackground.
You obviously have quite a bitof education.
Josie Slaathaug (03:18):
Awesome, I'm excited.
Thanks for having me.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (03:21):
Well, thanks for making the time.
We know how incredibly busy youhave been this spring and we're
really excited to hear whatyou've been doing and what your
thoughts are on what's going onwith our beloved gray whales and
other cetaceans.
Josie Slaathaug (03:36):
Yeah, definitely so.
To introduce myself, my name isSlaathaug (Slot-Howg) is is how
you pronounce my long andcomplicated last name.
I grew up in South Dakota and Iwent to undergraduate in Boston
at Northeastern University, andthen after that I did a brief,
(03:59):
about a year period of timewhere I worked in Miami for the
county government doing seaturtle work and tried to get
into whales and get into gradschool.
I had done an internship withSarasota Dolphin Research
Project, so I had gotten someexperience that way.
Then I joined the Marine MammalCenter in 2023 as a cetacean
(04:21):
ecology intern and we wereoriginally supposed to be here
for six months.
Then, through a privatedonation, we're able to extend
that into just under a year.
During that time, I applied forthe National Science
Foundation's Graduate ResearchFellowship Program, which I was
awarded and that has supportedme continuing my work into my
(04:44):
master's degree, which I'mworking on now at Sonoma State
University, while I work here atthe center part-time to
full-time it ended up in thisseason.
So, yeah, I'm doing a lot, havemy hand in a lot of different
things here at the center, butmy primary role here is
maintaining our gray whale photoID catalog that I created as an
(05:06):
intern.
Scott Mercer (05:07):
Wonderful.
How did you get hooked up withthe center?
Josie Slaathaug (05:11):
So, my friend, when I was an intern at Sarasota
Dolphin Research Program, shewas an intern there with me.
When she finished thatinternship she came to the
Marine Mammal Center's MontereyBay location and she was an
intern there and then she wouldreceive their new postings
through the alumni page and shehad always said you would love
(05:34):
California, you should try toget out here, you would really
love it here.
I surfed too.
So she was kind of like you gotto get out here.
And then she saw the internshipposted before it went up to you
know the public and she sent itto me and she said you would be
perfect for this.
Put me down as a reference.
I can send you know, anintroductory email.
She knew my supervisor, juliaO'Hearn, so I had a personal
(05:59):
connection and someone whorecommended that position to me
and it could not have worked outbetter for me.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (06:05):
That is wonderful.
We know Bill Keener very well.
He's the one who introduced youto us.
Josie Slaathaug (06:19):
Yeah, Bill and I work very closely.
He helped me a lot when I wasmaking the photo ID catalog and
has been a really closecolleague through that entire
process and then through theapplication process for my NSF
grant as well.
He's been very helpful in, youknow, connecting me with as many
people as he can, obviouslywith you two as well.
And now Bill, over time, Ithink, is kind of trying to hand
(06:39):
more of his roles off at thecenter, and so I've taken on
some of his duties that he hasmaintained here over the years,
like our long-term citizenscience sighting database for
gray whale sightings here in theBay, and so I work with him
pretty much daily on calls fordifferent presentations and data
(07:00):
things, and he is a joy to workwith seriously.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (07:04):
He's been a really a treasure to us all
the years that we've been reallysupportive of the work that
we've done and he's been on.
We've had him as a guest onResilient Earth.
In the fall we usually do anOcean Life Symposium and Bill
has graciously participated formany years in that as well.
Josie Slaathaug (07:26):
So yeah, I had.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (07:28):
I suspected exactly what you were
saying that he might be readyfor a new phase in life at this
point.
So would you like to tell usabout the gray whales?
What have you been saying?
Josie Slaathaug (07:39):
Yeah, so with the photo ID catalog that I
created, I have a few differentcomponents to my master's thesis
that I can talk about that I'mworking on Over the years that
the gray whales came in.
We really saw an uptick in 2018through 2023.
So that coincided with thatperiod of UME and we saw gray
(08:02):
whales in differing bodyconditions but overall looking
pretty skinny here in the Bay.
We saw them exhibiting somefeeding behaviors and some of
the mortality that we saw herein the Bay was malnutrition
related, but also vessel strikerelated.
From some of those carcasses wewere able to collect some
(08:24):
stomach samples.
So we have some ongoing workwith looking at what those
samples are composed of andwhere those invertebrates came
from, if we can say they camefrom the bay.
Things like that are still inthe works.
But I jumped in as an intern andlooked back through all of the
years of photographs that we hadbeen given by citizen
(08:46):
scientists, by whale watchingnaturalists and then by, you
know, our research colleagues,kind of opportunistically going
out over the years, and then Ialso was on the boat actively
collecting photos.
So I created the photo IDcatalog.
That's just under 100 whalesfor 2018 through 2023.
(09:09):
And then in 2024, we hadsomething interesting happen,
which was very few whales andoverall, very few sightings.
So we identified, I think, 16or 17 whales in 2023.
And then in 2024, that jumpeddown to six.
I mean it was a very steepdecrease.
(09:31):
The number of whales were seenfor a much shorter amount of
time, seemed like they kind ofpopped in and continued on their
way.
So you know, 2025, we were notramping up for a big season.
We were expecting to see veryfew whales here, probably again,
and for short amounts of time.
The opposite happened and wesaw the most whales we've ever
(09:55):
seen in one year.
We saw, I can officially say,photo ideas processed for this
year.
We saw 36 whales in the bay isprocessed for this year.
We saw 36 whales in the bay.
Most of them stayed for morethan 30 days or were
photographed for more than 30days.
A handful of them werephotographed for between 50 and
(10:17):
60 days, some of them longer.
We had a very high rate ofmortality in our area.
Overall in the bay area it wasmore than 20 whales that died in
the bay itself.
I think that number is 15 or 16just under kind of half of what
we saw overall for live whales.
(10:39):
And then that brings me to thesecond component of my thesis
overall, which is using our livewhale photo ID catalog to go
back and compare photos tocarcasses from the same time
frame.
A lot of times when gray whalesdie, san Francisco is so
(11:00):
tidally influenced that we don'treally have any evidence of
where they died.
They move so quickly and thecarcasses can move for miles and
miles, and miles in a matter ofa few hours.
Matching the live catalog tocarcasses can really add some
evidence as to where thesewhales may have died or just
(11:24):
give us insight into their lastdays, and I can share that.
I've been able to successfullymake many matches from carcasses
in previous years, but alsothis year.
That data is still beingprocessed, but already I have
five matches from carcasses thisyear to known individuals, with
(11:45):
some windows of death as shortas three days.
So it's really a credit to howoften we were out on the water
this year, how big of a lift ournecropsy, our pathology
department did, our partners atCalifornia Academy of Sciences
Everyone made just such a bigeffort to get on the water,
(12:07):
respond to as many of thesecarcasses as we could, and do so
in a timely manner so that theskin was still remaining on them
.
So this year saw a lot of livewhales, saw a lot of dead whales
.
The most interesting part aboutit probably was that this year
we saw a lot of whales in whatappeared to be at least fair to
(12:29):
good body condition and a lot offeeding behavior.
So it's, you know, makes themortality end of it a little
sadder.
We had a lot of these whalesthat were examined, had evidence
of vessel strike interactions,and that's on the Marine Mammal
Center website.
So I think of the eightexamined, six of them were able
(12:51):
to be attributed to vesselstrikes.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (12:53):
Can you describe to how the team feels
when they find these things andwhat thoughts are going through
their head about what might behappening that would cause these
kinds of things?
Because I met Kathy George atthis last International Ocean
Film Festival where there was apanel from the Marine Mammal
(13:13):
Center, and one of them is awoman who did the net crop seeds
.
I can't remember her name, butI met Kathy from the year before
at the same film festival andthe one thing that she was
saying this year was that shefelt more positive that the ship
industry was beginning toreally do what they could to
slow down their traffic whenthey knew whales were present
(13:37):
and even alter course.
Can you tell us what the teamwas thinking when you find these
things and what's going throughyour minds about what could be
the reason and what could bedone?
Josie Slaathaug (13:59):
I love that question because I think
sometimes as scientists, we'reexpected to really put emotion
aside and when we work withcharismatic megafauna, it is
impossible.
We work with charismaticmegafauna, it is impossible, and
I think, to have a team thatacknowledges the emotions that
go into.
Also, you know how hard thework can be and physically
draining, mentally draining,emotionally taxing to witness
(14:20):
months and months of anincreased mortality rate.
It was very taxing this yearand I think I and my team, my
interns, we all kind of feellike we're coming up out of a
fog from it processing some ofthis data now.
But to speak to the emotionswhile the work is happening, I'd
(14:41):
like to share.
I think my perspective shiftedat several points and the
emotions really changedthroughout the course of the
season.
I remember the first day I wentout on the boat this year
because the gray whales, I joke,they love to read my outlook
calendar and plan some crazythings for while I'm gone.
(15:03):
So I took a week vacation and Iwent camping in Hawaii this is
in March, off the grid, rightand I every once in a while get
a cell service and I'm gettingcalls and texts and emails that
the great whales are here and ohno, you know, it's kind of like
where are you?
(15:24):
So I knew I was coming back tookay, I'm going to hit the
ground running when I'm back.
So came back on the 25th ofMarch, the 28th, I'm on the boat
and it was like nothing I hadever experienced, because in
2023, ever experienced becausein 2023, the highest number of
(15:49):
whales we had in the bay in oneday was six, and that felt crazy
.
It felt like whoa, this is away too busy of an area to be
keeping track of where all thesewhales are.
And then I was out on the boaton the 28th and it was like
another one, another one andthere's one over there and I'm
seeing one a mile and a half outover there.
There were, I think wephotographed nine whales that
day and it was really like zeroto a hundred, right, I got back
(16:12):
when I had left I think I wasgone for seven days.
When I had left, we had nothingin the bay and when I came back
, it's like, oh my God, the mostwe've ever had in one day.
The interns had not arrived yet, so it was me and some
volunteers and I was instructingpeople on how to take data, how
to take photos.
While we were out in thatsituation and I really had not
(16:36):
experienced anything like that,my feeling at the time was a pit
in my stomach on they will notall make it out of here alive.
We were seeing close call afterclose call with these huge
shipping vessels, ferries,recreational vessels, I mean all
vessel traffic we were seeingjust really have close calls
with these whales.
(16:56):
And it is.
It is a sinking feeling as aresearcher who has looked at
many carcasses and responded tomany carcasses and all I could
think of was we are in for it.
Even if we had At that time,even if I could have thought,
you know, half of those whaleswould die, still seemed like
(17:18):
such a big number.
And this year what we did wascontinue to surpass records
Eight whales in seven days atthe peak.
And it was really emotional inthat moment to kind of look
around and just think this isnot a safe place for them, think
this is not a safe place forthem, the Bay is not a safe
(17:40):
place for them.
And then to Kathy George to hercredit, our department director
, she has done so muchbackground work and legwork with
the maritime community here inSan Francisco Bay that when she
went to them with this increasein sightings, this increase in
(18:02):
what we started to seemortalities, they respected her
seat at the table and theywanted to hear what can we do?
Because it was really, you know, a difficult time for them, in
the sense that something we'reexperiencing for the first time.
They're also experiencing forthe first time this is not just
one whale that you need to avoidin this one area.
(18:25):
This is now whales scatteredthroughout the bay, constantly
moving, sometimes comingtogether into pairs and
splitting apart.
You know, a loose kind ofgrouping or association in some
areas whales feeding, and theyreally received our expertise on
(18:45):
this.
They received ourrecommendations and our
guidelines and you know I cansay this is the most action that
I had ever seen the maritimecommunity take, specifically the
ferries.
I think there's still work tobe done, probably if this were
to be the new normal year toyear.
I think we see that reflectedin the mortality rates and a lot
(19:07):
of them being vessel strikes.
But I can say this is the mostaction I ever saw from the
industry in one year and is acredit to them on how quickly
they were able to change andreact to this increase in whales
.
We saw definitely rerouting atnight, so rerouting out of a
(19:28):
high area of known whaleoccurrence during hours in which
they would have a limitedvisibility.
During hours in which theywould have a limited visibility
we saw ferry companies offer toadd essentially their low
visibility extra observer to thebridge to just look for whales
along their route On the water.
Lots of vessels announcing toVessel Traffic Service, calling
(19:50):
in the whales' positions so thatit gets updated over time as
the whales move with the tides.
When we were out there we wouldcall in every whale sighting to
vessel traffic.
Vessel traffic would thenre-announce to ferries when they
would be departing to travelthat route that you know you're
going to probably encounter awhale at this buoy and then two
(20:11):
more whales are probably aroundthat buoy.
That was last updated atwhatever time it was probably
around that buoy.
That was last updated atwhatever time it was.
And then we also saw whenmortality started to increase.
The US Coast Guard on vesseltraffic service offered to
announce at regular intervals anotice to mariners and so they
would say you know all stations,all stations, all stations.
(20:33):
This is the United States CoastGuard.
We've received an unusualamount of reports of whales in
the bay, we're exercisingcaution and advising all
mariners to slow down and adjustcourse when necessary.
So it really was a big movementin the maritime community to do
their best to support thesewhales in what is one of the
(20:56):
busiest bays on the West Coast.
Certainly, and I think evenwith that huge lift that that
community did in times of fardeparture from what we're set up
for as conservation managers,there's really a lot of catch-up
(21:17):
that can't be done.
So, as reactive as we try to be, it will take proactive
measures to fully protect thespecies in the bay.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (21:28):
Wow, josie, your words just painted this
entire picture and at least mymind picture and at least my
mind, I'm sure a lot of people'sminds about how you have a
traditionally active and verypopular bay area where people
are used to all kinds of boatingactivities sailboats, fishing,
(21:51):
speed boats, shipping containers, ferries that go about their
daily activities and thensuddenly you've got this unusual
event with all these whalescoming in when typically they're
not there, and suddenly allthat information's got to be
dispersed and everybody alertedand maybe not everybody gets
(22:13):
that information at the sametime.
I mean, you really encapsulatedfor us that image of what
transpires during something likethat.
Now, can you say what timeframe again that was?
Josie Slaathaug (22:28):
Yeah, so when it first really picked up was
the end of March.
Picked up was the end of Marchand you know we hit our peak of
sightings probably early April.
That continued pretty much atthat peak all the way through
the end of May and into earlyJune.
(22:50):
So what I can say is that, youknow, by mid-May we were seeing
a lot of ferries taking evasivemeasures while we were on the
water and we were gettingreports of a lot of ferries
slowing down, altering courseboth in real time and
proactively at night, avoidingthe areas that these whales were
(23:10):
known to be at.
We also saw ferry captainssharing information with each
other.
There was a few weeks whereprobably a few groups of
individual whales had a verydistinct feeding pattern in
which they used the tides tomove, and the ferry captains
observed this because you knowthey're traveling every few
(23:32):
hours through the same exactarea, few hours through the same
exact area, and they would kindof say, okay, well, on flood
the whales tend to be here dayto day, and on ebb the whales
move over here, and thatinformation was shared from
ferry captain to ferry captainfor them to inform those routes.
And now we all know, especiallygray whales can be tricky and
(23:55):
individuals vary a lot in whatthey do, so there's no blanket
statement all the whales like tobe here.
No, there's always going to bewhales that do their own thing
or change it up on theday-to-day, and that is where I
think more proactive solutionsand thinking forward to the next
year is so important, becausethese reactive measures can only
(24:20):
do so much truly.
Scott Mercer (24:22):
I'm really glad to hear about the cooperation.
I'll tell you a little storyabout not getting cooperation.
One of the winters that Iworked with North Atlantic right
whales down in Florida andGeorgia we're from Maine, that's
how that happened.
But Amy Knowlton from the NewEngland Aquarium and I went down
to the shipping office inJacksonville, Florida, after we
(24:42):
arrived down there with theintention of asking them to slow
down because of right whalesand they burst out laughing.
It was the most absurd thingthey heard.
They were going to tell shipsto slow down because the whole
idea was to get in there asquick as possible, load up again
and get out.
So it's good to hear you sayingthat.
Josie Slaathaug (24:58):
Yeah, I think, having done the work I did in
Florida for the short length oftime just about a year but
working with endangered seaturtles there and facing very
little government interest,industry cooperation there.
The problem is turtles crawlingtowards the lights, and there
are many known solutions to this, one of which is just is
(25:19):
turtles crawling towards thelights, and there are many known
solutions to this, one of whichis just changing the color of
the lights.
And the kind of bottom linethere in that area was always
economics.
Granted, this is, you know,south Florida, so different
parts of Florida, I know, havebetter policies for this.
But I am reminded, thinking ofthat in my past and just what
you were saying, scott, with howyour expertise as a scientist
(25:42):
is received in these areas wherepeople have the ability to make
change, is so important.
And I count myself lucky to bein California because of that,
because we have a much morereceptive audience in the
industry and just thinking abouthow far the country has come
into recognizing the importanceof these species and it's only
going to hopefully get betterand better over time.
(26:05):
But this is, I really can'tunderstate in large part due to
all of the logistical work, thelegwork, the connection building
, the networking of ourdepartment director Kathy this
was kind of her brainchild theHarbor Safety Committee, to join
that as a partner at the MarineMammal Center and to share our
(26:29):
knowledge, to share our data, tobe open communicators to this
industry, to come with an openmind to hearing their solutions,
their difficulties in themaritime industry and then to
form what she formed, which wasthe Marine Mammals Working Group
.
And that group allows people tobring concerns, allows a
(26:50):
dedicated space for people inthe maritime industry to come
and learn from what we're seeing.
So, month to month, thatworking group meets once monthly
and we share our most recentinformation about gray whales.
You know and whales overall, asnow we're having the humpbacks
come in right.
But, to speak to gray whalesspecifically.
(27:13):
To share that information inreal time is the only framework
that allowed that to be receivedby the appropriate people who
could take those measures, andthat's just a huge credit to the
work that Kathy has put in foryears in the background to make
that happen.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (27:33):
Oh, now I can see why you said they
respected her seat at the tableShe'd taken the time to put in
all that time and create thatsituation and that they did
respect what she had to say.
And I also liked what you hadto say about the gray whales
having individual personalitiesand not always going to be in
(27:55):
the same place or do the samething, kind of like humans.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (27:59):
They are unpredictable, aren't they?
Josie Slaathaug (28:02):
Oh yeah yeah, and we have varying levels of
predictability by whale.
There are some whales in theBay that really like one area
and they're kind of always there, and then there are some whales
that are, you know,metropolitan traveling whales
that we can see at any point atany part of the bay, pretty much
(28:23):
doing anything.
But another thing that we sawthat is really interesting we're
starting to share thisinformation with colleagues you
know further north and I'm happyto share it here is that we saw
a lot more social behavior thanwe had ever seen.
So I think that might comealong with having had a larger
number of whales overall in thebay, but we saw things like them
(28:45):
blowing short bubble burstsback and forth.
We saw whales that were very,very tightly paired, which we
had never seen in the bay.
We saw whales touching onsurfacing, or one whale was
surfacing and we could seeanother part of a different
whale touching the body of thatwhale.
So it was so interesting andI'm reminded why, season to
(29:07):
season, as a scientist, you haveto grow so much and I have so
much to learn, even from justdoing the same job or being in
the same role year to year, isthey really can surprise you.
They can do so many differentthings.
We saw a lot of spy hoppingthis year and chin slapping and
that was kind of a rareoccurrence for us here.
(29:29):
So you know, we're learning aswe go in the infancy stages of
this program, really for thegray whale photo ID, and it's
been a joy and been reallydifficult.
You know, it's been a joy towatch them kind of explore new
parts of the bay and exhibitthese social behaviors and what
(29:51):
looks like happily feed withlots of mud blooming out of
their mouths.
And then it's been verydifficult to identify some of
these whales that we came toknow over the course of what was
months in the Bay this year andfind that not only is this
whale deceased, this whale wasstruck by a vessel which
(30:12):
contributed to its death orcaused its death, and also to
know, to your point, how mucheffort was made this year to
avoid that problem.
Had that effort not been made,I don't know what that number
would be.
I mean, the number that we haveis unreasonably high.
And that was, with all theseprotective measures, all these
(30:33):
evasive actions, right.
So had that structure not beenin place to communicate what we
needed out of that community, Ithink we would have seen a much
worse outcome for many of thewhales in the bay this year.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (30:47):
I agree with that completely.
I mean, even though the numberis high and we would not like to
see any, it is so much betterthan it would have been if all
that effort wasn't put intocreating that coordination and
collaboration.
I am so struck by that, andit's a wonderful thing.
(31:08):
Josie, how many whales arerecited like year to year have
come back?
Are we starting to see whalesthat are making this a stop
along the migration?
Josie Slaathaug (31:21):
That is such an interesting question and we're
still doing a lot of work tofigure that out.
Part of my thesis is alsocomparing the whales that we
have come to know here in SanFrancisco Bay to other known
feeding groups.
So I'm comparing our entirecatalog to both the Pacific
Coast feeding group and whalesthat have entered the Salish Sea
(31:42):
and the North Puget Sound, soto the Sounders as well as
whales just that have come intothat area.
What we're seeing here in SanFrancisco Bay is a very, very
low year to year reciting rate,which is really interesting and
something that we kind ofwouldn't expect.
I mean, we have a few visitorsthat have come back year-to-year
(32:06):
.
Specifically, we have one whalethat is on our Meet the Whales
website on the Marine MammalCenter.
That page.
This whale is named Semicolonafter a distinct shape on the
whale's right flank.
This whale was firstphotographed at the Farallon
Islands in 2021.
(32:26):
The following year, 2022, itwas photographed during the big
feeding event that Gray Whaleshad on anchovies that our group
has published on at the Pacificup here, so further South than
San Francisco Bay, but that sameyear it was seen inside San
Francisco Bay.
Then, 2023, we saw it insidethe Bay again, 2024, we saw it
(32:48):
inside the Bay again and thisyear, interestingly enough, we
saw it inside the Bay for thelongest period of time it had
been in ever, and then we alsophotographed it very recently or
while we received photographsfrom the public, which we love
all of our public contributors.
The Pacifica Whale SpottingFacebook group is so helpful for
(33:09):
tagging me in gray whale photos.
Knowing that I'm the persondoing that, I can't speak highly
enough of the folks over thereand the pictures that they're
able to obtain.
They photographed this whale atthe Pacific up here.
So this is a whale that maybeyear to year, sticks around and
doesn't complete that fullmigration.
(33:29):
Its first sighting in 2021 atthe Fairlawns was in July and
Point Blue that's been at theFairlawns.
Over the years.
They've recorded some graywhale sightings year to year
that aren't associated withphotographs that were in
throughout the summer at theFairlawn Islands.
So that tells us that maybethere's some data there to be
(33:52):
explored or another study thereto be done.
On addressing the question aresome whales summering there out
at the fair lawns?
But in terms of the bay, yeah,very low inter-annual reciting
rate, which is kind of not whatI would have expected.
So how do these whales know tocome here?
What makes them come here?
(34:13):
Why some years a bunch andother years not?
All of these are questions thatwe're kind of working on from
different angles within ourresearch group and trying to get
to the bottom of C.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (34:25):
Puget Sound, scott and Tree have brought on
as guests both here on thisradio show and podcast, as well
as the symposium they weretalking about earlier.
A couple of other guests we'vehad, and that would be Josh
(34:46):
McInnes, a doctorate student upin Victoria, canada, as well as
Howie Garrett of the OrcaNetwork, and they really study
the orcas and orca behavior.
So it's interesting how you'reall doing different aspects of
this and why, josie, is that soimportant?
Josie Slaathaug (35:07):
Get a full picture of what the whales are
doing here, including how longthey're here, if they enter and
leave through the Golden GateBridge very often or
infrequently, what they do whilethey're here, if they're
feeding, their body condition,their health when they're here,
the timing of them being hereand then where else they're seen
(35:31):
.
All of these components canbuild a picture of what does
this individual do on ayear-to-year.
This is a capital breedingspecies, so a species that
relies on a very short window inwhich it feeds to sustain it
for the entire year and relieson that short window for its
(35:55):
reproduction viability.
And relies on that short windowfor its reproduction viability.
You know, how successful is mypregnancy going to be is
determined by how much am I ableto eat in this short window of
time that I have allocated forthat in my migration.
So thinking about all of thesedifferent components and where
they fall along the migrationpathway can really give you a
(36:17):
full picture of an individual'slife history, and through that
window you can ask questionsabout larger environmental
drivers that influence thepopulation as a whole.
So is this something that we'reseeing on an individual level?
Within any population, you willhave weaker individuals.
(36:37):
Is that the sample that we'regetting inside San Francisco Bay
?
Or is this maybe representativeof larger drivers going on in
the environment in the Arctic?
With the warming and the seaice change, the prey regime
shifting up there to basicallyprey of less quality, is this
(36:58):
influencing, maybe, what thesewhales are doing, the cost
benefit of them completing thatentire migration and going
through the expenditure of allthat energy all the way up north
?
If the prey is shifting or ifthe timing of the sea ice
retreat is shifting, is thatgoing to change their migration
(37:20):
timing?
Looking at all of thecomponents that influence what
we know about an individual canreally help you start to
understand what is impacting thepopulation and what is
influencing the changes thatyou're seeing to overall their
history.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (37:40):
Very well said.
That really puts the bigpicture into focus for us all.
I appreciate that.
Something interesting righthere off our coast in the years
19, 20, and 21, we had mostlyjuveniles stayed here all summer
feeding in the kelp beds rightalong the coast.
(38:03):
We could watch them everysingle day Just for about those
three years.
Bill Keener and his wife cameout one year and he pointed out
to us that they're not justjuveniles.
There were some full-grownadults that stayed here those
summers but, josie, since thennone Not any longer Interesting.
Josie Slaathaug (38:24):
Yeah, it's so interesting.
I'm interested to see how Bill.
Scott Mercer (38:25):
Keener excited, not any longer interesting.
Josie Slaathaug (38:26):
Yeah, it's so interesting, and you know
getting Bill with a camera,getting Bill looking at pretty
much any living being, not evenjust whales.
Well really it's fun to bearound and just fun to work
around and he turned to me.
Scott Mercer (38:43):
he said is it always like this?
He?
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (38:46):
was so excited.
Scott Mercer (38:48):
We had these big whales going back and forth in
front of the up and down thelighthouse peninsula out here.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (38:54):
In Pointerina.
There's a peninsula, there's alighthouse out there.
Have you been out this way atall?
Josie Slaathaug (39:00):
No, I haven't.
It's been on my list for a longtime.
I would love to come.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (39:04):
You have an open invitation anytime.
It's a wonderful spot.
The lighthouse is on apeninsula that extends about two
miles out into the ocean.
That's our main observationsite and that's where Bill was.
He came out and he was justoverjoyed with what he was
seeing that summer day.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (39:25):
Describe a couple of the other places, like
Gerstle Cove and the otherplaces that you guys watch.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (39:30):
We try to , you know, hit as many
different sites along this coast.
There's just to the south of usin northern Sonoma County.
There's a beautiful state parkcalled Salt Point State Park and
within that park also goes outa little bit is Gerstle Cove.
We've had success therewatching whales different types.
(39:52):
We've seen finback whales there.
We even saw minky humpbacksfeeding there.
In later summertime A couple ofBill's dolphins were playing
out there A couple of Bill'sdolphins were playing out there,
yeah, oh so fun.
Yeah, Wallala Point RegionalPark as a nice vantage point for
watching whales.
Sometimes we even go to theMendocino Headlands and see a
(40:18):
count from up there.
So we try to spread out alongthis coast and be true to our
name of Mendenoma a little bitof.
Mendocino and Sonoma.
Josie Slaathaug (40:27):
Yeah, I love that name, Mendenoma.
A little bit of Mendocino andSonoma.
Yeah, I love that name,mendenoma, and especially, you
know, going to school up atSonoma State is a good reason.
I'm already part of the way upand I've really been thinking
about going to areas of thatcoast, especially during the
gray whale migration.
Try to see some people going byactually instead of coming into
the bay.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (40:47):
True, you're in Santa Rosa.
You just come over through theriver road and come to Jenner
and then up the coast.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (40:55):
As I said , you have an open invitation to
join us anytime.
Josie Slaathaug (40:59):
I will take you up on it.
I would love to.
Scott Mercer (41:02):
Can I ask you a couple of behavioral questions?
Yeah, veil questions, notpeople, when you're watching
whales in the bay.
You mentioned spy hopping.
For one thing I think I heardyou say that, and we've been
watching whales out here now formany thousands of hours I saw a
spy hopping galore on the EastCoast the decades I was working
with humpbacks in the Gulf ofMaine.
(41:22):
You know, popping up next tothe boats and looking at you
like they do, like you know it'sthe only way they can see.
And but I come out here and Ihear about spy hopping.
And the last time we did acount was several years ago and
a nephew of mine at theUniversity of New Hampshire was
in a statistics class and heneeded our statistics for a
project.
So he gladly handed it over tohim and at that point we had
(41:44):
over 5,000 hours of sitting outthere on the cliff.
Now we're way over that.
We still have not seen a graywhale spy hop.
So I hear about it but Ihaven't seen it.
So when do you see them doingthat?
When a cargo vessel goes by sothey can read the Japanese
writing on it.
Josie Slaathaug (42:01):
Yeah, I had not seen a gray whale spy hop until
this year.
So, and I have also spent, youknow, thousands of hours looking
over the years, so it was ashock to me.
To be honest with you, theclosest spy hop I saw this year
was from quite a distance, butit was unmistakable.
(42:22):
I mean it was really like, oh,we saw a blow over there a while
ago.
So you know, I told one of theinterns, keep an eye on that one
, we'll try to go over to thatone after we finish
photographing this one.
And all of a sudden I look overand I just see like a you know,
big objects kind of up out ofthe water and then slowly sink
back down and I was like thathad to be spy hopping.
(42:45):
And I like to joke all of thecitizen scientists that come to
Crissy Field and stand withtheir camera.
They get a photo of spy hoppingthat's so gorgeous.
And they see spy hopping overthere.
(43:07):
I have no idea what a gray whaleis thinking, what influences
the moment it chooses to spy hop.
I really really have not even aguess on that one, at least
here in the bay, and I think theclosest I've come to seeing it
in person, off the boat, notfrom a distance, was definitely
this one whale.
It has a provisional code fornow, before we finish comparing
it to our historic catalog, but2530.
And this whale was very skinny.
(43:32):
The first time we saw it wasone of the skinniest whales I
had ever seen, macy, that Iwould say.
Over the course of its time inthe Bay we saw it in a few spots
that made us very worried,including right outside of the
ferry building along the SanFrancisco waterfront Just maybe
the most stressful place to seea gray whale.
Sitting here on the boat andwatching five different ferries
(43:54):
approach and they're all at slowspeed because they're coming in
to dock.
But really, where is that whalegoing to go?
You're thinking, you know.
So we had seen the whale in somehair-raising predicaments, you
might say.
And the last time we saw itbefore it was struck and killed
by a vessel was jubilus, I thinkthere's no other word.
(44:18):
It was paired very tightly withanother whale which we had not
seen it near any other whalesthe whole season.
It looked visibly better, itlooked to be in better body
condition.
It was blowing bubbles, it waschin slapping lightly, you know,
raising its whole rostrum andhead out of the water and kind
(44:38):
of tapping it down, and I dothink it looked at us.
I think it, you know, wasn't aspy hop directly in the very
vertical sense, but it wasraising and lowering a few times
in a row in pretty closeproximity to the boat while we
sat in neutral and photographedit, and it was very close to the
(44:59):
other whale and it was coveredin mud.
It was just clearly a changedwhale from the one we had first
seen.
And I think about a week to aweek and a half later we
received a report from a ferrycaptain of a new gray whale
carcass and I saw a photo of itand I just knew immediately that
(45:22):
it was that whale.
And that was the saddest one ofthe whole season for us because
it had seemed that that whalewas doing better, maybe getting
better, whether it was here inthe Bay or locally outside, you
know, along the coast, and itjust had this predisposition
(45:43):
that we had seen it in thesereally difficult areas for a
whale to be.
So that was a very sad one andthe carcass match by photo that
I was able to do on that one wasactually the markings on its
face because it had looked at usthe last time we had seen it.
So that was one where theemotions ran high here in the
(46:05):
office, and especially to justhave had that last encounter
with it and have had that timewith that whale where we really
felt a connection, and to knowthat it was a human-caused
mortality and that it maybewould have exited the bay alive
had that not happened.
Would have exited the bay alivehad that not happened.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (46:27):
You're listening to the voice of Josie
Slothout, who is a cetaceanintern at the Marine Mammal
Center in Sausalito and she isdoing her master's degree at
Sonoma State University.
Scott and Tree.
(46:48):
Mercer and I are talking withher about the unusually high
number of gray whales in the SanFrancisco Bay this year and
near the mouth of the GoldenGate Bridge and, tragically, how
so many whales have diedrecently More than 20 in the
area and 15 or 16 which were inthe bay itself.
So we're talking about thetypes of things that can be done
(47:10):
to prevent more of these fromhappening in the future.
Now back to our conversationand my next question.
I'm Leanne Lindsay, and this isResilient Earth radio and
podcast, where we talk aboutcritical issues facing our
planet and the positive actionspeople are taking.
So let me ask you somethingthat is a very speculative
(47:33):
question.
That may not be one you cananswer either one of you, but,
josie, what do you think mightbe done in the future?
In such a busy bay, such a bigtourist area, big mariner area,
cargo ships, sporting boats,fishing boats, people just
(47:55):
getting out to have a good timewhat do you think some measures
might be to in the future,possibly send out some kind of
alert that this kind of thing ishappening in the Bay again, so
that people can really ratchetback their activities.
Josie Slaathaug (48:11):
That's a great question.
I think that's something youknow our team thinks about
constantly.
What could we take from thisyear as lessons to move forward
and prepare us for potentiallyhigh numbers of gray whales in
the bay in the following years?
And I think a few things arealways in this conversation, but
(48:35):
not necessarily the mostfeasible or realistic on short
timescales, which are enacting aslow speed zone throughout the
bay.
That is not a popular thing totalk about with the maritime
industry because that is verydisruptive to their entire
schedules, their way of being inthe Bay right now.
(48:57):
So that would be a really largechange, a large shift.
I think smaller scale we cantalk about, like I said earlier,
proactive measures, soeducation to the maritime
community, but also, on smallerscales, to local marinas around
the bay.
That focuses on before thesewhales enter.
(49:20):
This is roughly the season thatyou'll see them in.
This is behavior that you mightexpect from different species.
Here's safe guidelines forwhale viewing from your vessels.
We understand that whales arejust as exciting for the public
to see, if not more, than for usto see.
So people really want tosupport our work but also want
(49:44):
to get out there and see somewhales.
Well, I think education in thisarea, the Bay Area broadly, for
whale safe viewing, for mariners, has been lacking because
there's no historical presencein this way.
So I think in other areas wheretake Monterey Bay, for example,
where even commercial fishermenand the whale watching community
(50:07):
is so established because thishas been populations that return
year after year, to differingextents granted, but as a
community that has beenunderstanding that whales are
present in this area across time, and that's not a community
that exists yet in the Bay,that's not a community knowledge
(50:29):
or a depth of public knowledgethat exists yet.
I think there's lots of workthat's very feasible to be done
to build that knowledge basewithin the community, within the
public, to move forward andhave a year where commercial
fishermen understand, when theysee a whale, that they're not
supposed to approach it, or theyunderstand okay, maybe I've
(50:53):
seen one breath, but sometimesit'll be right subsurface and
it'll rest for a minute beforeit takes another breath.
I still can't drive over thatarea, even if I don't see a
whale in that area.
Still can't drive over thatarea, even if I don't see a
whale in that area.
Things like that, small thingsthat the public can digest very
easily, even if we don't haveanother year with a ton of
(51:13):
whales, we might in the future.
Things for this population arechanging and they're changing
very quickly.
I think we have an opportunitynow to start to build that
community and that publicknowledge base and support, and
I think that we in the Bay Areaspecifically have a very
receptive audience for it.
So we just need to put someeffort and some time there and
(51:35):
continue to do outreach to ourcommunities, which is the most
important way to make change onany topic.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (51:42):
I like that idea of working with the marinas
too, because that's wherepeople put out from, and
educating from that point, yes,scott.
Scott Mercer (51:50):
Yeah, the other question I had was John C, a
couple of years ago, made theobservation that the blue whales
didn't seem to be aware of, offof Santa Barbara, of the ships
going in and out of there.
They're so intent on catchingkrill.
You're seeing whales betweenthe tugboats and the big ships
coming in.
If the whales seem to be tryingto get out of the way or they
(52:12):
seem oblivious to it.
Josie Slaathaug (52:14):
Yeah, that's a great question and I think it's
very difficult to classify withgray whales because oftentimes
we don't see any sort of largereactive measures.
Anecdotally, we had a fewwhales this year that when we
first photographed them, did nothave a sublethal injury an
(52:35):
injury that may not contributeto death necessarily but is
evident of some sort of vesselinteraction, of a prop mark for
example.
We saw a few of those this yearthat then they gained while
they were in the bay and whatI'll say is those whales were
much harder to photograph fromour research team after they
(52:56):
received that injury.
So those whales were veryevasive, coming up for just one
blow and making some real groundin one direction or quickly
changing directions.
But overall I don't reallynotice a pattern among whales
and that just goes toindividuality.
Again, I think gray whales areso individual, Whales in general
(53:18):
are so individual, but whatI've seen with gray whales in
the bay is not necessarily apattern of they seem to be very
disturbed by the vessels and getout of the way or they seem to
be very oblivious.
It seems like there's some ofeach and overall there's
probably a broad spectrum ofwhat they think about it, what
they think about different typesof vessels, I will say the
(53:41):
high-speed ferries travelupwards of 30 knots within the
bay.
I think that gives the whalesno time to think or have a
reaction or have a chance tomove out of the way.
So I would say, and this hasbeen published in literature,
looking at risk of differenttypes of vessels in San
(54:01):
Francisco Bay for other speciesspecifically, paper, I'm
thinking of that modeled riskacross the different areas of
the bay in terms of thinkingabout maybe reintroducing sea
otters, and they classifiedferries as one of the highest
risk components just because ofthat speed and because there is
no management in place for thespeeds right now.
(54:22):
So that's a framework thatwould have to be built and
because of their prevalencethroughout the North and the
Central Bay.
Scott Mercer (54:29):
On the East Coast.
I never got involved withnaming the whales.
We had such an avalanche ofhumpbacks every summer.
I was just interested in myselfand whoever came out on the
boats with me to photograph thetales of humpbacks and other.
Then we get into finbacks whichbecame a real circus because
it's so darn big.
But when we moved out here andshifted our focus I did become
(54:49):
interested and out here is amuch smaller group of working
with the whales.
So a neighbor and friend orcolleague now of ours, sherry
Goforth, who has sent somephotos down to Bill and up to
John and to Ted Cheeseman.
The first photo she took up herewhich got me interested in the
names and seeing it was possibleeven from a cliff was a gray
(55:12):
whale named Rambo.
So Rambo was seen with a calfdown in Baja, and then, quickly,
rambo became Rambulina.
Rambulina, that's right.
So that was it.
Josie Slaathaug (55:24):
Well, I'll just say we had a similar occurrence
this year, a whale that we hada tiny little white spot, a very
dark body, otherwise tinylittle white spot, and we called
it little lady spot for a whileand then that turned into
little lady and then it turnedinto ladybug.
So that whale got named ladybugand ladybug did pass and was a
(55:45):
male and our world was rockedbecause we really did perceive
female energy from that whale.
I just Josie, we really don'tknow at all the sex of these
whales until they're either seenwith a calf or they die.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (55:59):
Do any mothers and calves go into the
bay?
Josie Slaathaug (56:01):
Josie calves go into the bay.
Josie, no, we have notphotographed a clear mother calf
pair or seen one in SanFrancisco Bay, which is also
interesting, but this year verylow calf count overall, so I
wouldn't really have yeah,wouldn't have expected that
they'd be in here.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (56:16):
Thank you so much, Josie, for coming on, and
thank you, Scott and Tree Scott, for bringing Josie to us.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (56:23):
We so appreciate your time, Josie, and
what you are doing.
Josie Slaathaug (56:26):
Yeah, thank you for giving me a space to share
the work that we've been doingand after such a difficult and
taxing year, it's reallyrewarding to be able to talk
with interested people about itand to share more broadly how it
went this year.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (56:43):
Yeah, we're glad to know that we need
to spread that word.
We're certainly trying to dothat up here, and people here do
love their whales.
They are concerned and the morethey know, the more they'll
care and maybe make some changesin their daily lives to help
these whales Absolutely.
Josie Slaathaug (57:01):
And this is the 50th anniversary of the largest
marine mammal hospital in theworld yeah, definitely happy to
be a part of it and feel verylucky to work with the people I
do thanks again, everybody,thank you thank you for the time
.
Scott Mercer (57:21):
Bye.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (57:36):
Thanks for listening to the Resilient Earth
podcast, where we talk aboutcritical issues and positive
actions for our planet.
Resilient Earth is produced byPlanet Centric Media, a 501c3
nonprofit, and Seastorm StudiosInc, located on the rugged North
Sonoma coast of NorthernCalifornia.
I'm Leigh Anne Lindsey,producer and host, along with
(57:59):
co-hosts and co-producers Scottand Tree Mercer of Mendonoma
Whale and Seal Study, located onthe South Mendocino and North
Sonoma coasts.
The music for this podcast isby Eric Allaman, an
(58:21):
international composer, pianistand writer living in the Sea
Ranch.
Discover more of his music,animations, ballet, stage and
film work at ericallaman.
com.
You can find Resilient Earth onSpotify, Apple and Amazon
Podcasts, iHeartRadio, YouTube,Soundcloud and wherever you find
(58:43):
your podcasts.
Please support us bysubscribing or donating to our
cause.
Welcome to the Resilient Earth Podcast,
where we talk with speakers fromthe United States and around
the world about the criticalissues facing our planet and the
positive actions people aretaking.
It's July 4th, 2025, friday.
(00:40):
Today, we're going to talkabout what is happening close by
in the Bay of San Francisco,right here in Northern
California.
We thought it was important toraise awareness about the high
mortality rate recently of thegray whale population that has
(01:01):
been visiting this busy andheavily trafficked San Francisco
Bay this year from about Marchto early June.
Why is it happening and why didit happen?
What can be done about it?
Scott found a terrificspecialist, a cetacean
specialist, at the Marine MammalCenter in Sausalito, the
(01:24):
world's largest marine hospitalin the world, and it's their
50th anniversary.
Her name is Josie Slaathaugh(pronounced Slot-Howg), and in
2023, Josie joined the MarineMammal Center as a cetacean
ecology intern and is workingnow on her master's degree at
Sonoma State University.
(01:44):
The photo ID catalog which shecreated and maintains now
contains over 100 whales and keydata from that shows increased
whales entering the bay thisyear at a total of 36, many of
which were malnourished and mostof which stayed for more than
30 days and then because of thedense traffic in the bay.
(02:08):
Tragically they died by vesselstrikes.
More than 20 whales have diedin the area this year 15 or 16,
which were in the bay itself.
We're going to talk about thatnext, but first a word from our
sponsor.
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It's all part of a globalsupply chain that has some
people crying foul.
Here is a case where thecommunities lose their fish,
(02:51):
their food security and theydon't see any dollars coming in.
That's coming up on the latestseason of the Catch.
Listen wherever you get yourpodcasts.
Josie Slaathaug (03:04):
Nice to meet you.
Scott and Tree and Leigh Anne.
Awesome to put faces to thenames, Exactly right.
Scott Mercer (03:11):
What we thought we'd do is let you introduce
yourself and give us yourbackground.
You obviously have quite a bitof education.
Josie Slaathaug (03:18):
Awesome, I'm excited.
Thanks for having me.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (03:21):
Well, thanks for making the time.
We know how incredibly busy youhave been this spring and we're
really excited to hear whatyou've been doing and what your
thoughts are on what's going onwith our beloved gray whales and
other cetaceans.
Josie Slaathaug (03:36):
Yeah, definitely so.
To introduce myself, my name isSlaathaug (Slot-Howg) is is how
you pronounce my long andcomplicated last name.
I grew up in South Dakota and Iwent to undergraduate in Boston
at Northeastern University, andthen after that I did a brief,
(03:59):
about a year period of timewhere I worked in Miami for the
county government doing seaturtle work and tried to get
into whales and get into gradschool.
I had done an internship withSarasota Dolphin Research
Project, so I had gotten someexperience that way.
Then I joined the Marine MammalCenter in 2023 as a cetacean
(04:21):
ecology intern and we wereoriginally supposed to be here
for six months.
Then, through a privatedonation, we're able to extend
that into just under a year.
During that time, I applied forthe National Science
Foundation's Graduate ResearchFellowship Program, which I was
awarded and that has supportedme continuing my work into my
(04:44):
master's degree, which I'mworking on now at Sonoma State
University, while I work here atthe center part-time to
full-time it ended up in thisseason.
So, yeah, I'm doing a lot, havemy hand in a lot of different
things here at the center, butmy primary role here is
maintaining our gray whale photoID catalog that I created as an
(05:06):
intern.
Scott Mercer (05:07):
Wonderful.
How did you get hooked up withthe center?
Josie Slaathaug (05:11):
So, my friend, when I was an intern at Sarasota
Dolphin Research Program, shewas an intern there with me.
When she finished thatinternship she came to the
Marine Mammal Center's MontereyBay location and she was an
intern there and then she wouldreceive their new postings
through the alumni page and shehad always said you would love
(05:34):
California, you should try toget out here, you would really
love it here.
I surfed too.
So she was kind of like you gotto get out here.
And then she saw the internshipposted before it went up to you
know the public and she sent itto me and she said you would be
perfect for this.
Put me down as a reference.
I can send you know, anintroductory email.
She knew my supervisor, juliaO'Hearn, so I had a personal
(05:59):
connection and someone whorecommended that position to me
and it could not have worked outbetter for me.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (06:05):
That is wonderful.
We know Bill Keener very well.
He's the one who introduced youto us.
Josie Slaathaug (06:19):
Yeah, Bill and I work very closely.
He helped me a lot when I wasmaking the photo ID catalog and
has been a really closecolleague through that entire
process and then through theapplication process for my NSF
grant as well.
He's been very helpful in, youknow, connecting me with as many
people as he can, obviouslywith you two as well.
And now Bill, over time, Ithink, is kind of trying to hand
(06:39):
more of his roles off at thecenter, and so I've taken on
some of his duties that he hasmaintained here over the years,
like our long-term citizenscience sighting database for
gray whale sightings here in theBay, and so I work with him
pretty much daily on calls fordifferent presentations and data
(07:00):
things, and he is a joy to workwith seriously.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (07:04):
He's been a really a treasure to us all
the years that we've been reallysupportive of the work that
we've done and he's been on.
We've had him as a guest onResilient Earth.
In the fall we usually do anOcean Life Symposium and Bill
has graciously participated formany years in that as well.
Josie Slaathaug (07:26):
So yeah, I had.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (07:28):
I suspected exactly what you were
saying that he might be readyfor a new phase in life at this
point.
So would you like to tell usabout the gray whales?
What have you been saying?
Josie Slaathaug (07:39):
Yeah, so with the photo ID catalog that I
created, I have a few differentcomponents to my master's thesis
that I can talk about that I'mworking on Over the years that
the gray whales came in.
We really saw an uptick in 2018through 2023.
So that coincided with thatperiod of UME and we saw gray
(08:02):
whales in differing bodyconditions but overall looking
pretty skinny here in the Bay.
We saw them exhibiting somefeeding behaviors and some of
the mortality that we saw herein the Bay was malnutrition
related, but also vessel strikerelated.
From some of those carcasses wewere able to collect some
(08:24):
stomach samples.
So we have some ongoing workwith looking at what those
samples are composed of andwhere those invertebrates came
from, if we can say they camefrom the bay.
Things like that are still inthe works.
But I jumped in as an intern andlooked back through all of the
years of photographs that we hadbeen given by citizen
(08:46):
scientists, by whale watchingnaturalists and then by, you
know, our research colleagues,kind of opportunistically going
out over the years, and then Ialso was on the boat actively
collecting photos.
So I created the photo IDcatalog.
That's just under 100 whalesfor 2018 through 2023.
(09:09):
And then in 2024, we hadsomething interesting happen,
which was very few whales andoverall, very few sightings.
So we identified, I think, 16or 17 whales in 2023.
And then in 2024, that jumpeddown to six.
I mean it was a very steepdecrease.
(09:31):
The number of whales were seenfor a much shorter amount of
time, seemed like they kind ofpopped in and continued on their
way.
So you know, 2025, we were notramping up for a big season.
We were expecting to see veryfew whales here, probably again,
and for short amounts of time.
The opposite happened and wesaw the most whales we've ever
(09:55):
seen in one year.
We saw, I can officially say,photo ideas processed for this
year.
We saw 36 whales in the bay isprocessed for this year.
We saw 36 whales in the bay.
Most of them stayed for morethan 30 days or were
photographed for more than 30days.
A handful of them werephotographed for between 50 and
(10:17):
60 days, some of them longer.
We had a very high rate ofmortality in our area.
Overall in the bay area it wasmore than 20 whales that died in
the bay itself.
I think that number is 15 or 16just under kind of half of what
we saw overall for live whales.
(10:39):
And then that brings me to thesecond component of my thesis
overall, which is using our livewhale photo ID catalog to go
back and compare photos tocarcasses from the same time
frame.
A lot of times when gray whalesdie, san Francisco is so
(11:00):
tidally influenced that we don'treally have any evidence of
where they died.
They move so quickly and thecarcasses can move for miles and
miles, and miles in a matter ofa few hours.
Matching the live catalog tocarcasses can really add some
evidence as to where thesewhales may have died or just
(11:24):
give us insight into their lastdays, and I can share that.
I've been able to successfullymake many matches from carcasses
in previous years, but alsothis year.
That data is still beingprocessed, but already I have
five matches from carcasses thisyear to known individuals, with
(11:45):
some windows of death as shortas three days.
So it's really a credit to howoften we were out on the water
this year, how big of a lift ournecropsy, our pathology
department did, our partners atCalifornia Academy of Sciences
Everyone made just such a bigeffort to get on the water,
(12:07):
respond to as many of thesecarcasses as we could, and do so
in a timely manner so that theskin was still remaining on them
.
So this year saw a lot of livewhales, saw a lot of dead whales
.
The most interesting part aboutit probably was that this year
we saw a lot of whales in whatappeared to be at least fair to
(12:29):
good body condition and a lot offeeding behavior.
So it's, you know, makes themortality end of it a little
sadder.
We had a lot of these whalesthat were examined, had evidence
of vessel strike interactions,and that's on the Marine Mammal
Center website.
So I think of the eightexamined, six of them were able
(12:51):
to be attributed to vesselstrikes.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (12:53):
Can you describe to how the team feels
when they find these things andwhat thoughts are going through
their head about what might behappening that would cause these
kinds of things?
Because I met Kathy George atthis last International Ocean
Film Festival where there was apanel from the Marine Mammal
(13:13):
Center, and one of them is awoman who did the net crop seeds
.
I can't remember her name, butI met Kathy from the year before
at the same film festival andthe one thing that she was
saying this year was that shefelt more positive that the ship
industry was beginning toreally do what they could to
slow down their traffic whenthey knew whales were present
(13:37):
and even alter course.
Can you tell us what the teamwas thinking when you find these
things and what's going throughyour minds about what could be
the reason and what could bedone?
Josie Slaathaug (13:59):
I love that question because I think
sometimes as scientists, we'reexpected to really put emotion
aside and when we work withcharismatic megafauna, it is
impossible.
We work with charismaticmegafauna, it is impossible, and
I think, to have a team thatacknowledges the emotions that
go into.
Also, you know how hard thework can be and physically
draining, mentally draining,emotionally taxing to witness
(14:20):
months and months of anincreased mortality rate.
It was very taxing this yearand I think I and my team, my
interns, we all kind of feellike we're coming up out of a
fog from it processing some ofthis data now.
But to speak to the emotionswhile the work is happening, I'd
(14:41):
like to share.
I think my perspective shiftedat several points and the
emotions really changedthroughout the course of the
season.
I remember the first day I wentout on the boat this year
because the gray whales, I joke,they love to read my outlook
calendar and plan some crazythings for while I'm gone.
(15:03):
So I took a week vacation and Iwent camping in Hawaii this is
in March, off the grid, rightand I every once in a while get
a cell service and I'm gettingcalls and texts and emails that
the great whales are here and ohno, you know, it's kind of like
where are you?
(15:24):
So I knew I was coming back tookay, I'm going to hit the
ground running when I'm back.
So came back on the 25th ofMarch, the 28th, I'm on the boat
and it was like nothing I hadever experienced, because in
2023, ever experienced becausein 2023, the highest number of
(15:49):
whales we had in the bay in oneday was six, and that felt crazy
.
It felt like whoa, this is away too busy of an area to be
keeping track of where all thesewhales are.
And then I was out on the boaton the 28th and it was like
another one, another one andthere's one over there and I'm
seeing one a mile and a half outover there.
There were, I think wephotographed nine whales that
day and it was really like zeroto a hundred, right, I got back
(16:12):
when I had left I think I wasgone for seven days.
When I had left, we had nothingin the bay and when I came back
, it's like, oh my God, the mostwe've ever had in one day.
The interns had not arrived yet, so it was me and some
volunteers and I was instructingpeople on how to take data, how
to take photos.
While we were out in thatsituation and I really had not
(16:36):
experienced anything like that,my feeling at the time was a pit
in my stomach on they will notall make it out of here alive.
We were seeing close call afterclose call with these huge
shipping vessels, ferries,recreational vessels, I mean all
vessel traffic we were seeingjust really have close calls
with these whales.
(16:56):
And it is.
It is a sinking feeling as aresearcher who has looked at
many carcasses and responded tomany carcasses and all I could
think of was we are in for it.
Even if we had At that time,even if I could have thought,
you know, half of those whaleswould die, still seemed like
(17:18):
such a big number.
And this year what we did wascontinue to surpass records
Eight whales in seven days atthe peak.
And it was really emotional inthat moment to kind of look
around and just think this isnot a safe place for them, think
this is not a safe place forthem, the Bay is not a safe
(17:40):
place for them.
And then to Kathy George to hercredit, our department director
, she has done so muchbackground work and legwork with
the maritime community here inSan Francisco Bay that when she
went to them with this increasein sightings, this increase in
(18:02):
what we started to seemortalities, they respected her
seat at the table and theywanted to hear what can we do?
Because it was really, you know, a difficult time for them, in
the sense that something we'reexperiencing for the first time.
They're also experiencing forthe first time this is not just
one whale that you need to avoidin this one area.
(18:25):
This is now whales scatteredthroughout the bay, constantly
moving, sometimes comingtogether into pairs and
splitting apart.
You know, a loose kind ofgrouping or association in some
areas whales feeding, and theyreally received our expertise on
(18:45):
this.
They received ourrecommendations and our
guidelines and you know I cansay this is the most action that
I had ever seen the maritimecommunity take, specifically the
ferries.
I think there's still work tobe done, probably if this were
to be the new normal year toyear.
I think we see that reflectedin the mortality rates and a lot
(19:07):
of them being vessel strikes.
But I can say this is the mostaction I ever saw from the
industry in one year and is acredit to them on how quickly
they were able to change andreact to this increase in whales
.
We saw definitely rerouting atnight, so rerouting out of a
(19:28):
high area of known whaleoccurrence during hours in which
they would have a limitedvisibility.
During hours in which theywould have a limited visibility
we saw ferry companies offer toadd essentially their low
visibility extra observer to thebridge to just look for whales
along their route On the water.
Lots of vessels announcing toVessel Traffic Service, calling
(19:50):
in the whales' positions so thatit gets updated over time as
the whales move with the tides.
When we were out there we wouldcall in every whale sighting to
vessel traffic.
Vessel traffic would thenre-announce to ferries when they
would be departing to travelthat route that you know you're
going to probably encounter awhale at this buoy and then two
(20:11):
more whales are probably aroundthat buoy.
That was last updated atwhatever time it was probably
around that buoy.
That was last updated atwhatever time it was.
And then we also saw whenmortality started to increase.
The US Coast Guard on vesseltraffic service offered to
announce at regular intervals anotice to mariners and so they
would say you know all stations,all stations, all stations.
(20:33):
This is the United States CoastGuard.
We've received an unusualamount of reports of whales in
the bay, we're exercisingcaution and advising all
mariners to slow down and adjustcourse when necessary.
So it really was a big movementin the maritime community to do
their best to support thesewhales in what is one of the
(20:56):
busiest bays on the West Coast.
Certainly, and I think evenwith that huge lift that that
community did in times of fardeparture from what we're set up
for as conservation managers,there's really a lot of catch-up
(21:17):
that can't be done.
So, as reactive as we try to be, it will take proactive
measures to fully protect thespecies in the bay.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (21:28):
Wow, josie, your words just painted this
entire picture and at least mymind picture and at least my
mind, I'm sure a lot of people'sminds about how you have a
traditionally active and verypopular bay area where people
are used to all kinds of boatingactivities sailboats, fishing,
(21:51):
speed boats, shipping containers, ferries that go about their
daily activities and thensuddenly you've got this unusual
event with all these whalescoming in when typically they're
not there, and suddenly allthat information's got to be
dispersed and everybody alertedand maybe not everybody gets
(22:13):
that information at the sametime.
I mean, you really encapsulatedfor us that image of what
transpires during something likethat.
Now, can you say what timeframe again that was?
Josie Slaathaug (22:28):
Yeah, so when it first really picked up was
the end of March.
Picked up was the end of Marchand you know we hit our peak of
sightings probably early April.
That continued pretty much atthat peak all the way through
the end of May and into earlyJune.
(22:50):
So what I can say is that, youknow, by mid-May we were seeing
a lot of ferries taking evasivemeasures while we were on the
water and we were gettingreports of a lot of ferries
slowing down, altering courseboth in real time and
proactively at night, avoidingthe areas that these whales were
(23:10):
known to be at.
We also saw ferry captainssharing information with each
other.
There was a few weeks whereprobably a few groups of
individual whales had a verydistinct feeding pattern in
which they used the tides tomove, and the ferry captains
observed this because you knowthey're traveling every few
(23:32):
hours through the same exactarea, few hours through the same
exact area, and they would kindof say, okay, well, on flood
the whales tend to be here dayto day, and on ebb the whales
move over here, and thatinformation was shared from
ferry captain to ferry captainfor them to inform those routes.
And now we all know, especiallygray whales can be tricky and
(23:55):
individuals vary a lot in whatthey do, so there's no blanket
statement all the whales like tobe here.
No, there's always going to bewhales that do their own thing
or change it up on theday-to-day, and that is where I
think more proactive solutionsand thinking forward to the next
year is so important, becausethese reactive measures can only
(24:20):
do so much truly.
Scott Mercer (24:22):
I'm really glad to hear about the cooperation.
I'll tell you a little storyabout not getting cooperation.
One of the winters that Iworked with North Atlantic right
whales down in Florida andGeorgia we're from Maine, that's
how that happened.
But Amy Knowlton from the NewEngland Aquarium and I went down
to the shipping office inJacksonville, Florida, after we
(24:42):
arrived down there with theintention of asking them to slow
down because of right whalesand they burst out laughing.
It was the most absurd thingthey heard.
They were going to tell shipsto slow down because the whole
idea was to get in there asquick as possible, load up again
and get out.
So it's good to hear you sayingthat.
Josie Slaathaug (24:58):
Yeah, I think, having done the work I did in
Florida for the short length oftime just about a year but
working with endangered seaturtles there and facing very
little government interest,industry cooperation there.
The problem is turtles crawlingtowards the lights, and there
are many known solutions to this, one of which is just is
(25:19):
turtles crawling towards thelights, and there are many known
solutions to this, one of whichis just changing the color of
the lights.
And the kind of bottom linethere in that area was always
economics.
Granted, this is, you know,south Florida, so different
parts of Florida, I know, havebetter policies for this.
But I am reminded, thinking ofthat in my past and just what
you were saying, scott, with howyour expertise as a scientist
(25:42):
is received in these areas wherepeople have the ability to make
change, is so important.
And I count myself lucky to bein California because of that,
because we have a much morereceptive audience in the
industry and just thinking abouthow far the country has come
into recognizing the importanceof these species and it's only
going to hopefully get betterand better over time.
(26:05):
But this is, I really can'tunderstate in large part due to
all of the logistical work, thelegwork, the connection building
, the networking of ourdepartment director Kathy this
was kind of her brainchild theHarbor Safety Committee, to join
that as a partner at the MarineMammal Center and to share our
(26:29):
knowledge, to share our data, tobe open communicators to this
industry, to come with an openmind to hearing their solutions,
their difficulties in themaritime industry and then to
form what she formed, which wasthe Marine Mammals Working Group
.
And that group allows people tobring concerns, allows a
(26:50):
dedicated space for people inthe maritime industry to come
and learn from what we're seeing.
So, month to month, thatworking group meets once monthly
and we share our most recentinformation about gray whales.
You know and whales overall, asnow we're having the humpbacks
come in right.
But, to speak to gray whalesspecifically.
(27:13):
To share that information inreal time is the only framework
that allowed that to be receivedby the appropriate people who
could take those measures, andthat's just a huge credit to the
work that Kathy has put in foryears in the background to make
that happen.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (27:33):
Oh, now I can see why you said they
respected her seat at the tableShe'd taken the time to put in
all that time and create thatsituation and that they did
respect what she had to say.
And I also liked what you hadto say about the gray whales
having individual personalitiesand not always going to be in
(27:55):
the same place or do the samething, kind of like humans.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (27:59):
They are unpredictable, aren't they?
Josie Slaathaug (28:02):
Oh yeah yeah, and we have varying levels of
predictability by whale.
There are some whales in theBay that really like one area
and they're kind of always there, and then there are some whales
that are, you know,metropolitan traveling whales
that we can see at any point atany part of the bay, pretty much
(28:23):
doing anything.
But another thing that we sawthat is really interesting we're
starting to share thisinformation with colleagues you
know further north and I'm happyto share it here is that we saw
a lot more social behavior thanwe had ever seen.
So I think that might comealong with having had a larger
number of whales overall in thebay, but we saw things like them
(28:45):
blowing short bubble burstsback and forth.
We saw whales that were very,very tightly paired, which we
had never seen in the bay.
We saw whales touching onsurfacing, or one whale was
surfacing and we could seeanother part of a different
whale touching the body of thatwhale.
So it was so interesting andI'm reminded why, season to
(29:07):
season, as a scientist, you haveto grow so much and I have so
much to learn, even from justdoing the same job or being in
the same role year to year, isthey really can surprise you.
They can do so many differentthings.
We saw a lot of spy hoppingthis year and chin slapping and
that was kind of a rareoccurrence for us here.
(29:29):
So you know, we're learning aswe go in the infancy stages of
this program, really for thegray whale photo ID, and it's
been a joy and been reallydifficult.
You know, it's been a joy towatch them kind of explore new
parts of the bay and exhibitthese social behaviors and what
(29:51):
looks like happily feed withlots of mud blooming out of
their mouths.
And then it's been verydifficult to identify some of
these whales that we came toknow over the course of what was
months in the Bay this year andfind that not only is this
whale deceased, this whale wasstruck by a vessel which
(30:12):
contributed to its death orcaused its death, and also to
know, to your point, how mucheffort was made this year to
avoid that problem.
Had that effort not been made,I don't know what that number
would be.
I mean, the number that we haveis unreasonably high.
And that was, with all theseprotective measures, all these
(30:33):
evasive actions, right.
So had that structure not beenin place to communicate what we
needed out of that community, Ithink we would have seen a much
worse outcome for many of thewhales in the bay this year.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (30:47):
I agree with that completely.
I mean, even though the numberis high and we would not like to
see any, it is so much betterthan it would have been if all
that effort wasn't put intocreating that coordination and
collaboration.
I am so struck by that, andit's a wonderful thing.
(31:08):
Josie, how many whales arerecited like year to year have
come back?
Are we starting to see whalesthat are making this a stop
along the migration?
Josie Slaathaug (31:21):
That is such an interesting question and we're
still doing a lot of work tofigure that out.
Part of my thesis is alsocomparing the whales that we
have come to know here in SanFrancisco Bay to other known
feeding groups.
So I'm comparing our entirecatalog to both the Pacific
Coast feeding group and whalesthat have entered the Salish Sea
(31:42):
and the North Puget Sound, soto the Sounders as well as
whales just that have come intothat area.
What we're seeing here in SanFrancisco Bay is a very, very
low year to year reciting rate,which is really interesting and
something that we kind ofwouldn't expect.
I mean, we have a few visitorsthat have come back year-to-year
(32:06):
.
Specifically, we have one whalethat is on our Meet the Whales
website on the Marine MammalCenter.
That page.
This whale is named Semicolonafter a distinct shape on the
whale's right flank.
This whale was firstphotographed at the Farallon
Islands in 2021.
(32:26):
The following year, 2022, itwas photographed during the big
feeding event that Gray Whaleshad on anchovies that our group
has published on at the Pacificup here, so further South than
San Francisco Bay, but that sameyear it was seen inside San
Francisco Bay.
Then, 2023, we saw it insidethe Bay again, 2024, we saw it
(32:48):
inside the Bay again and thisyear, interestingly enough, we
saw it inside the Bay for thelongest period of time it had
been in ever, and then we alsophotographed it very recently or
while we received photographsfrom the public, which we love
all of our public contributors.
The Pacifica Whale SpottingFacebook group is so helpful for
(33:09):
tagging me in gray whale photos.
Knowing that I'm the persondoing that, I can't speak highly
enough of the folks over thereand the pictures that they're
able to obtain.
They photographed this whale atthe Pacific up here.
So this is a whale that maybeyear to year, sticks around and
doesn't complete that fullmigration.
(33:29):
Its first sighting in 2021 atthe Fairlawns was in July and
Point Blue that's been at theFairlawns.
Over the years.
They've recorded some graywhale sightings year to year
that aren't associated withphotographs that were in
throughout the summer at theFairlawn Islands.
So that tells us that maybethere's some data there to be
(33:52):
explored or another study thereto be done.
On addressing the question aresome whales summering there out
at the fair lawns?
But in terms of the bay, yeah,very low inter-annual reciting
rate, which is kind of not whatI would have expected.
So how do these whales know tocome here?
What makes them come here?
(34:13):
Why some years a bunch andother years not?
All of these are questions thatwe're kind of working on from
different angles within ourresearch group and trying to get
to the bottom of C.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (34:25):
Puget Sound, scott and Tree have brought on
as guests both here on thisradio show and podcast, as well
as the symposium they weretalking about earlier.
A couple of other guests we'vehad, and that would be Josh
(34:46):
McInnes, a doctorate student upin Victoria, canada, as well as
Howie Garrett of the OrcaNetwork, and they really study
the orcas and orca behavior.
So it's interesting how you'reall doing different aspects of
this and why, josie, is that soimportant?
Josie Slaathaug (35:07):
Get a full picture of what the whales are
doing here, including how longthey're here, if they enter and
leave through the Golden GateBridge very often or
infrequently, what they do whilethey're here, if they're
feeding, their body condition,their health when they're here,
the timing of them being hereand then where else they're seen
(35:31):
.
All of these components canbuild a picture of what does
this individual do on ayear-to-year.
This is a capital breedingspecies, so a species that
relies on a very short window inwhich it feeds to sustain it
for the entire year and relieson that short window for its
(35:55):
reproduction viability.
And relies on that short windowfor its reproduction viability.
You know, how successful is mypregnancy going to be is
determined by how much am I ableto eat in this short window of
time that I have allocated forthat in my migration.
So thinking about all of thesedifferent components and where
they fall along the migrationpathway can really give you a
(36:17):
full picture of an individual'slife history, and through that
window you can ask questionsabout larger environmental
drivers that influence thepopulation as a whole.
So is this something that we'reseeing on an individual level?
Within any population, you willhave weaker individuals.
(36:37):
Is that the sample that we'regetting inside San Francisco Bay
?
Or is this maybe representativeof larger drivers going on in
the environment in the Arctic?
With the warming and the seaice change, the prey regime
shifting up there to basicallyprey of less quality, is this
(36:58):
influencing, maybe, what thesewhales are doing, the cost
benefit of them completing thatentire migration and going
through the expenditure of allthat energy all the way up north
?
If the prey is shifting or ifthe timing of the sea ice
retreat is shifting, is thatgoing to change their migration
(37:20):
timing?
Looking at all of thecomponents that influence what
we know about an individual canreally help you start to
understand what is impacting thepopulation and what is
influencing the changes thatyou're seeing to overall their
history.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (37:40):
Very well said.
That really puts the bigpicture into focus for us all.
I appreciate that.
Something interesting righthere off our coast in the years
19, 20, and 21, we had mostlyjuveniles stayed here all summer
feeding in the kelp beds rightalong the coast.
(38:03):
We could watch them everysingle day Just for about those
three years.
Bill Keener and his wife cameout one year and he pointed out
to us that they're not justjuveniles.
There were some full-grownadults that stayed here those
summers but, josie, since thennone Not any longer Interesting.
Josie Slaathaug (38:24):
Yeah, it's so interesting.
I'm interested to see how Bill.
Scott Mercer (38:25):
Keener excited, not any longer interesting.
Josie Slaathaug (38:26):
Yeah, it's so interesting, and you know
getting Bill with a camera,getting Bill looking at pretty
much any living being, not evenjust whales.
Well really it's fun to bearound and just fun to work
around and he turned to me.
Scott Mercer (38:43):
he said is it always like this?
He?
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (38:46):
was so excited.
Scott Mercer (38:48):
We had these big whales going back and forth in
front of the up and down thelighthouse peninsula out here.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (38:54):
In Pointerina.
There's a peninsula, there's alighthouse out there.
Have you been out this way atall?
Josie Slaathaug (39:00):
No, I haven't.
It's been on my list for a longtime.
I would love to come.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (39:04):
You have an open invitation anytime.
It's a wonderful spot.
The lighthouse is on apeninsula that extends about two
miles out into the ocean.
That's our main observationsite and that's where Bill was.
He came out and he was justoverjoyed with what he was
seeing that summer day.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (39:25):
Describe a couple of the other places, like
Gerstle Cove and the otherplaces that you guys watch.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (39:30):
We try to , you know, hit as many
different sites along this coast.
There's just to the south of usin northern Sonoma County.
There's a beautiful state parkcalled Salt Point State Park and
within that park also goes outa little bit is Gerstle Cove.
We've had success therewatching whales different types.
(39:52):
We've seen finback whales there.
We even saw minky humpbacksfeeding there.
In later summertime A couple ofBill's dolphins were playing
out there A couple of Bill'sdolphins were playing out there,
yeah, oh so fun.
Yeah, Wallala Point RegionalPark as a nice vantage point for
watching whales.
Sometimes we even go to theMendocino Headlands and see a
(40:18):
count from up there.
So we try to spread out alongthis coast and be true to our
name of Mendenoma a little bitof.
Mendocino and Sonoma.
Josie Slaathaug (40:27):
Yeah, I love that name, Mendenoma.
A little bit of Mendocino andSonoma.
Yeah, I love that name,mendenoma, and especially, you
know, going to school up atSonoma State is a good reason.
I'm already part of the way upand I've really been thinking
about going to areas of thatcoast, especially during the
gray whale migration.
Try to see some people going byactually instead of coming into
the bay.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (40:47):
True, you're in Santa Rosa.
You just come over through theriver road and come to Jenner
and then up the coast.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (40:55):
As I said , you have an open invitation to
join us anytime.
Josie Slaathaug (40:59):
I will take you up on it.
I would love to.
Scott Mercer (41:02):
Can I ask you a couple of behavioral questions?
Yeah, veil questions, notpeople, when you're watching
whales in the bay.
You mentioned spy hopping.
For one thing I think I heardyou say that, and we've been
watching whales out here now formany thousands of hours I saw a
spy hopping galore on the EastCoast the decades I was working
with humpbacks in the Gulf ofMaine.
(41:22):
You know, popping up next tothe boats and looking at you
like they do, like you know it'sthe only way they can see.
And but I come out here and Ihear about spy hopping.
And the last time we did acount was several years ago and
a nephew of mine at theUniversity of New Hampshire was
in a statistics class and heneeded our statistics for a
project.
So he gladly handed it over tohim and at that point we had
(41:44):
over 5,000 hours of sitting outthere on the cliff.
Now we're way over that.
We still have not seen a graywhale spy hop.
So I hear about it but Ihaven't seen it.
So when do you see them doingthat?
When a cargo vessel goes by sothey can read the Japanese
writing on it.
Josie Slaathaug (42:01):
Yeah, I had not seen a gray whale spy hop until
this year.
So, and I have also spent, youknow, thousands of hours looking
over the years, so it was ashock to me.
To be honest with you, theclosest spy hop I saw this year
was from quite a distance, butit was unmistakable.
(42:22):
I mean it was really like, oh,we saw a blow over there a while
ago.
So you know, I told one of theinterns, keep an eye on that one
, we'll try to go over to thatone after we finish
photographing this one.
And all of a sudden I look overand I just see like a you know,
big objects kind of up out ofthe water and then slowly sink
back down and I was like thathad to be spy hopping.
(42:45):
And I like to joke all of thecitizen scientists that come to
Crissy Field and stand withtheir camera.
They get a photo of spy hoppingthat's so gorgeous.
And they see spy hopping overthere.
(43:07):
I have no idea what a gray whaleis thinking, what influences
the moment it chooses to spy hop.
I really really have not even aguess on that one, at least
here in the bay, and I think theclosest I've come to seeing it
in person, off the boat, notfrom a distance, was definitely
this one whale.
It has a provisional code fornow, before we finish comparing
it to our historic catalog, but2530.
And this whale was very skinny.
(43:32):
The first time we saw it wasone of the skinniest whales I
had ever seen, macy, that Iwould say.
Over the course of its time inthe Bay we saw it in a few spots
that made us very worried,including right outside of the
ferry building along the SanFrancisco waterfront Just maybe
the most stressful place to seea gray whale.
Sitting here on the boat andwatching five different ferries
(43:54):
approach and they're all at slowspeed because they're coming in
to dock.
But really, where is that whalegoing to go?
You're thinking, you know.
So we had seen the whale in somehair-raising predicaments, you
might say.
And the last time we saw itbefore it was struck and killed
by a vessel was jubilus, I thinkthere's no other word.
(44:18):
It was paired very tightly withanother whale which we had not
seen it near any other whalesthe whole season.
It looked visibly better, itlooked to be in better body
condition.
It was blowing bubbles, it waschin slapping lightly, you know,
raising its whole rostrum andhead out of the water and kind
(44:38):
of tapping it down, and I dothink it looked at us.
I think it, you know, wasn't aspy hop directly in the very
vertical sense, but it wasraising and lowering a few times
in a row in pretty closeproximity to the boat while we
sat in neutral and photographedit, and it was very close to the
(44:59):
other whale and it was coveredin mud.
It was just clearly a changedwhale from the one we had first
seen.
And I think about a week to aweek and a half later we
received a report from a ferrycaptain of a new gray whale
carcass and I saw a photo of itand I just knew immediately that
(45:22):
it was that whale.
And that was the saddest one ofthe whole season for us because
it had seemed that that whalewas doing better, maybe getting
better, whether it was here inthe Bay or locally outside, you
know, along the coast, and itjust had this predisposition
(45:43):
that we had seen it in thesereally difficult areas for a
whale to be.
So that was a very sad one andthe carcass match by photo that
I was able to do on that one wasactually the markings on its
face because it had looked at usthe last time we had seen it.
So that was one where theemotions ran high here in the
(46:05):
office, and especially to justhave had that last encounter
with it and have had that timewith that whale where we really
felt a connection, and to knowthat it was a human-caused
mortality and that it maybewould have exited the bay alive
had that not happened.
Would have exited the bay alivehad that not happened.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (46:27):
You're listening to the voice of Josie
Slothout, who is a cetaceanintern at the Marine Mammal
Center in Sausalito and she isdoing her master's degree at
Sonoma State University.
Scott and Tree.
(46:48):
Mercer and I are talking withher about the unusually high
number of gray whales in the SanFrancisco Bay this year and
near the mouth of the GoldenGate Bridge and, tragically, how
so many whales have diedrecently More than 20 in the
area and 15 or 16 which were inthe bay itself.
So we're talking about thetypes of things that can be done
(47:10):
to prevent more of these fromhappening in the future.
Now back to our conversationand my next question.
I'm Leanne Lindsay, and this isResilient Earth radio and
podcast, where we talk aboutcritical issues facing our
planet and the positive actionspeople are taking.
So let me ask you somethingthat is a very speculative
(47:33):
question.
That may not be one you cananswer either one of you, but,
josie, what do you think mightbe done in the future?
In such a busy bay, such a bigtourist area, big mariner area,
cargo ships, sporting boats,fishing boats, people just
(47:55):
getting out to have a good timewhat do you think some measures
might be to in the future,possibly send out some kind of
alert that this kind of thing ishappening in the Bay again, so
that people can really ratchetback their activities.
Josie Slaathaug (48:11):
That's a great question.
I think that's something youknow our team thinks about
constantly.
What could we take from thisyear as lessons to move forward
and prepare us for potentiallyhigh numbers of gray whales in
the bay in the following years?
And I think a few things arealways in this conversation, but
(48:35):
not necessarily the mostfeasible or realistic on short
timescales, which are enacting aslow speed zone throughout the
bay.
That is not a popular thing totalk about with the maritime
industry because that is verydisruptive to their entire
schedules, their way of being inthe Bay right now.
(48:57):
So that would be a really largechange, a large shift.
I think smaller scale we cantalk about, like I said earlier,
proactive measures, soeducation to the maritime
community, but also, on smallerscales, to local marinas around
the bay.
That focuses on before thesewhales enter.
(49:20):
This is roughly the season thatyou'll see them in.
This is behavior that you mightexpect from different species.
Here's safe guidelines forwhale viewing from your vessels.
We understand that whales arejust as exciting for the public
to see, if not more, than for usto see.
So people really want tosupport our work but also want
(49:44):
to get out there and see somewhales.
Well, I think education in thisarea, the Bay Area broadly, for
whale safe viewing, for mariners, has been lacking because
there's no historical presencein this way.
So I think in other areas wheretake Monterey Bay, for example,
where even commercial fishermenand the whale watching community
(50:07):
is so established because thishas been populations that return
year after year, to differingextents granted, but as a
community that has beenunderstanding that whales are
present in this area across time, and that's not a community
that exists yet in the Bay,that's not a community knowledge
(50:29):
or a depth of public knowledgethat exists yet.
I think there's lots of workthat's very feasible to be done
to build that knowledge basewithin the community, within the
public, to move forward andhave a year where commercial
fishermen understand, when theysee a whale, that they're not
supposed to approach it, or theyunderstand okay, maybe I've
(50:53):
seen one breath, but sometimesit'll be right subsurface and
it'll rest for a minute beforeit takes another breath.
I still can't drive over thatarea, even if I don't see a
whale in that area.
Still can't drive over thatarea, even if I don't see a
whale in that area.
Things like that, small thingsthat the public can digest very
easily, even if we don't haveanother year with a ton of
(51:13):
whales, we might in the future.
Things for this population arechanging and they're changing
very quickly.
I think we have an opportunitynow to start to build that
community and that publicknowledge base and support, and
I think that we in the Bay Areaspecifically have a very
receptive audience for it.
So we just need to put someeffort and some time there and
(51:35):
continue to do outreach to ourcommunities, which is the most
important way to make change onany topic.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (51:42):
I like that idea of working with the marinas
too, because that's wherepeople put out from, and
educating from that point, yes,scott.
Scott Mercer (51:50):
Yeah, the other question I had was John C, a
couple of years ago, made theobservation that the blue whales
didn't seem to be aware of, offof Santa Barbara, of the ships
going in and out of there.
They're so intent on catchingkrill.
You're seeing whales betweenthe tugboats and the big ships
coming in.
If the whales seem to be tryingto get out of the way or they
(52:12):
seem oblivious to it.
Josie Slaathaug (52:14):
Yeah, that's a great question and I think it's
very difficult to classify withgray whales because oftentimes
we don't see any sort of largereactive measures.
Anecdotally, we had a fewwhales this year that when we
first photographed them, did nothave a sublethal injury an
(52:35):
injury that may not contributeto death necessarily but is
evident of some sort of vesselinteraction, of a prop mark for
example.
We saw a few of those this yearthat then they gained while
they were in the bay and whatI'll say is those whales were
much harder to photograph fromour research team after they
(52:56):
received that injury.
So those whales were veryevasive, coming up for just one
blow and making some real groundin one direction or quickly
changing directions.
But overall I don't reallynotice a pattern among whales
and that just goes toindividuality.
Again, I think gray whales areso individual, Whales in general
(53:18):
are so individual, but whatI've seen with gray whales in
the bay is not necessarily apattern of they seem to be very
disturbed by the vessels and getout of the way or they seem to
be very oblivious.
It seems like there's some ofeach and overall there's
probably a broad spectrum ofwhat they think about it, what
they think about different typesof vessels, I will say the
(53:41):
high-speed ferries travelupwards of 30 knots within the
bay.
I think that gives the whalesno time to think or have a
reaction or have a chance tomove out of the way.
So I would say, and this hasbeen published in literature,
looking at risk of differenttypes of vessels in San
(54:01):
Francisco Bay for other speciesspecifically, paper, I'm
thinking of that modeled riskacross the different areas of
the bay in terms of thinkingabout maybe reintroducing sea
otters, and they classifiedferries as one of the highest
risk components just because ofthat speed and because there is
no management in place for thespeeds right now.
(54:22):
So that's a framework thatwould have to be built and
because of their prevalencethroughout the North and the
Central Bay.
Scott Mercer (54:29):
On the East Coast.
I never got involved withnaming the whales.
We had such an avalanche ofhumpbacks every summer.
I was just interested in myselfand whoever came out on the
boats with me to photograph thetales of humpbacks and other.
Then we get into finbacks whichbecame a real circus because
it's so darn big.
But when we moved out here andshifted our focus I did become
(54:49):
interested and out here is amuch smaller group of working
with the whales.
So a neighbor and friend orcolleague now of ours, sherry
Goforth, who has sent somephotos down to Bill and up to
John and to Ted Cheeseman.
The first photo she took up herewhich got me interested in the
names and seeing it was possibleeven from a cliff was a gray
(55:12):
whale named Rambo.
So Rambo was seen with a calfdown in Baja, and then, quickly,
rambo became Rambulina.
Rambulina, that's right.
So that was it.
Josie Slaathaug (55:24):
Well, I'll just say we had a similar occurrence
this year, a whale that we hada tiny little white spot, a very
dark body, otherwise tinylittle white spot, and we called
it little lady spot for a whileand then that turned into
little lady and then it turnedinto ladybug.
So that whale got named ladybugand ladybug did pass and was a
(55:45):
male and our world was rockedbecause we really did perceive
female energy from that whale.
I just Josie, we really don'tknow at all the sex of these
whales until they're either seenwith a calf or they die.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (55:59):
Do any mothers and calves go into the
bay?
Josie Slaathaug (56:01):
Josie calves go into the bay.
Josie, no, we have notphotographed a clear mother calf
pair or seen one in SanFrancisco Bay, which is also
interesting, but this year verylow calf count overall, so I
wouldn't really have yeah,wouldn't have expected that
they'd be in here.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (56:16):
Thank you so much, Josie, for coming on, and
thank you, Scott and Tree Scott, for bringing Josie to us.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (56:23):
We so appreciate your time, Josie, and
what you are doing.
Josie Slaathaug (56:26):
Yeah, thank you for giving me a space to share
the work that we've been doingand after such a difficult and
taxing year, it's reallyrewarding to be able to talk
with interested people about itand to share more broadly how it
went this year.
Theresa (Tree) Mercer (56:43):
Yeah, we're glad to know that we need
to spread that word.
We're certainly trying to dothat up here, and people here do
love their whales.
They are concerned and the morethey know, the more they'll
care and maybe make some changesin their daily lives to help
these whales Absolutely.
Josie Slaathaug (57:01):
And this is the 50th anniversary of the largest
marine mammal hospital in theworld yeah, definitely happy to
be a part of it and feel verylucky to work with the people I
do thanks again, everybody,thank you thank you for the time
.
Scott Mercer (57:21):
Bye.
Leigh Anne Lindsey (57:36):
Thanks for listening to the Resilient Earth
podcast, where we talk aboutcritical issues and positive
actions for our planet.
Resilient Earth is produced byPlanet Centric Media, a 501c3
nonprofit, and Seastorm StudiosInc, located on the rugged North
Sonoma coast of NorthernCalifornia.
I'm Leigh Anne Lindsey,producer and host, along with
(57:59):
co-hosts and co-producers Scottand Tree Mercer of Mendonoma
Whale and Seal Study, located onthe South Mendocino and North
Sonoma coasts.
The music for this podcast isby Eric Allaman, an
(58:21):
international composer, pianistand writer living in the Sea
Ranch.
Discover more of his music,animations, ballet, stage and
film work at ericallaman.
com.
You can find Resilient Earth onSpotify, Apple and Amazon
Podcasts, iHeartRadio, YouTube,Soundcloud and wherever you find
(58:43):
your podcasts.
Please support us bysubscribing or donating to our
cause.
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