Jurassic Park (1993) with Derrick Davis

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
This is just a warning to say that this episode
features spoilers, mild languageand lots of talk about
dinosaurs.
Now if that's not for you, thendrop what you're doing and leave
now.

(00:29):
Hello and welcome back to Roadto Rebirth.
I'm Roland Squire.
Steven Spielberg's 1993 filmJurassic Park He started the

(01:06):
YouTube channel Jurassic Timeand has produced several audio
dramas based on Jurassic Parkscripts and properties like the
Trespasser video game.
We will discuss all of that intoday's episode.
But he's also somebody who hasunearthed many hidden treasures

(01:28):
and behind the scenes secretsand conducted lots of interviews
with people who were involved inthe production of Jurassic Park.
It's a fun conversation.
So let's just dive straight in.
Please welcome to the show,Derek Davis.
Hi, Derek.
How are you doing?
I'm doing good.
How about you?

(01:48):
Yeah, I'm good.
I'm good.
I'm excited to be talking aboutjurassic park um but first are
you excited for rebirth

SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
i am but i'm apprehensive and i'll try to
explain why you know afterjurassic world dominion ended it
had an ending it may not havebeen the best ending but it had
an ending but then you knowhaving kep involved and having
gareth edwards involved which ithink is great because i wish he
would have done a He's such agood talent.

(02:25):
But from the story, the factthat they're walking back, the
dinosaurs kind of beingeverywhere, and now they're kind
of died off.
I just don't know if going backto, you know, an isolated place
is really what it has led up to.
I kind of wish it would havebeen like a midquel, like a
story between Jurassic Park 3and Jurassic World.

(02:47):
I think that would have made alot more sense than doing...
this kind of thing but

SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
yeah i feel like maybe we're getting that but
that kind of story but a sequelthat when kind of looking at
jurassic park and um spielberg'slike taking of the book and
things he he seems uninterestedin dinosaurs out in the real
world or that being part ofbecause that's a big part of
michael crichton's book and andthe lost world his his sequel

(03:16):
but spielberg wasn't reallyinterested in having that in the
first film and the bit at theend of the lost world where he
just puts in the t-rexes is kindof nod to king kong more than
anything

SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
and you know i don't really have a huge problem with
that like honestly i do agreethat going back to an isolated
location is a lot moreinteresting and intense of a
story than just having themeverywhere and and co-existing
as the end of dominion made itmade its message be which i'm
just like i don't buy that youknow like i don't really in
today's worlds especially Idon't believe that for a second

(03:48):
I'm in the kind of mindset whereyou know it remains to be seen
like show me let me see how youdid this then I'll either like
it or I'll not care for it thatmuch so I'm yeah I'm cautiously
optimistic I guess yes what I'msimply

SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
that's probably the safest thing to be I think for
the seventh yeah a franchise

SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
oh yeah but there is there is one thing I am
definitely excited for and thatis the the lagoon sequence that
we're finally getting from thenovel yeah I'm sure you saw that
coming yeah

SPEAKER_00 (04:20):
yeah no yeah very very excited for that

SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
yeah yeah it's It's been a long time coming.
I mean, that sequence has such aride, literally, too, because it
was originally going to be inthe movie, and it was in the
early scripts and everything,which I know we'll get at.
But it was also turned into aride that they were creating
before the first movie was evenreleased, which is kind of
insane, if you think about that.

(04:46):
And, you know, some people wouldargue, yeah, we got a bit of
that in Jurassic Park 3 with theSpinosaurus, you know, against
the boat, but having...
a dinosaur especially t-rex isyou know everyone just loves
t-rex but having any dinosaur inthe water coming up from under a
raft an inflatable raft you knowsuch a thin membrane of plastic

(05:06):
between you and whatever'sunderneath you know that's
terrifying a lot more terrifyingthan being in like a sturdy boat
you know what i mean so

SPEAKER_00 (05:14):
yeah and it's such a standout moment from the novel
um so i so i take you're a fanof jurassic park There's
probably something

SPEAKER_01 (05:24):
obvious there.
Just a bit, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (05:27):
So how do you feel about trying to sum up Jurassic
Park in this one episode?
Can it be

SPEAKER_01 (05:33):
done?
Oh, man.
I don't...
You know, the movie, maybe.
The book is a whole differentbeast.
I don't know if I can sum up thewhole book as...
It's such an interestingadaptation because it is very
close to the book, but also verydifferent from the book at the
same time.
It's kind of somehow able toaccomplish both.

(05:54):
It's both a good adaptation andalso not at the same time.
It's really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 (06:01):
So I wondered whether you could kick us off
with a synopsis.
for

SPEAKER_01 (06:08):
Jurassic Park.

(06:35):
the island and make sure that itis safe for their guests.
But unfortunately, even thoughthe park is quite extraordinary
as they tour it, something doesgo wrong and the dinosaurs break
loose, havoc ensues, a fewpeople die.
But at the very end of the day,they all are, I mean, not all,

(06:57):
but several of them are able tosafely escape the island and it
is safe to say that the parkwill not open.
That's my cliff notes version.

SPEAKER_00 (07:09):
And the bit about the end, I always think about
this at the end when thehelicopter arrives, like when
they first made that call, doyou think they went, so how many
helicopters do I need to send?
Cause quite a few people.
No, no, no.
Just one helicopter will do.

SPEAKER_01 (07:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
Just

SPEAKER_01 (07:24):
like two of us left.

SPEAKER_00 (07:26):
So we just won.
What's your earliest memoryabout seeing it?

UNKNOWN (07:32):
Um,

SPEAKER_01 (07:32):
Oh, that's kind of a fun story.
So let's go back in time tosummer of 1993.
I was about six years old,little kid Derek, little brat
kid Derek.
And I was playing in a park,like an actual park that was not
far from a big drive-in theater.
We used to have a drive-intheater in our town.

(07:53):
And I saw the movie playing onthe screen without audio, just
like a certain moment.
I honestly can't remember whatmoment it was.
I think it was like the lunchscene you know with the
projectors going and everything

SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
I saw that

SPEAKER_01 (08:08):
and then I saw like you know the visitor center
exterior with like the dinosaurskeleton on it and I was like
mom dad what's that movie andthey said oh that's Jurassic
Park I'm like oh I want to seethat like isn't that the one
with dinosaurs or like yeah butit's it's probably going to be
too scary for you because youknow I was six and like 90s kids
weren't that you know hardshelled yet we hadn't seen all

(08:31):
the craziness that came after umand but I insisted for at least
a few weeks I was like I reallywant to see it people at kids at
school were starting to talkabout it which is like oh no
well now I'm not cool because Ihaven't seen it yeah so They
finally caved in, and then wewent to the drive-in theater to
see it, which, you know, ifanyone's ever been to a drive-in

(08:53):
theater, depending on thequality of the few that still
exist, you know, it could bekind of a magical, unique
experience, you know, verydifferent than...
any other watching a moviehonestly you know being outdoors
and having cars parked aroundyou you know and they're kind of
like either sitting in their caror right outside it kind of
thing the speakers are either onlike on a pole or it's from your

(09:15):
car stereo which I'm like howdid people's car batteries not
die I don't know but yeah so wewatched it in the drive and I
remember I was in our car waslike in reverse and like the
trunk was open and like me andmy sister were like in the
trunk, kind of just watching itfrom there.
And it, I remember beingterrified.

(09:38):
I think especially the T-Rexbreakout, but for whatever
reason, the spitter was whatfreaked me out the most because,
you know, it acts all nice atfirst.
You're like, Oh, kind of cute,you know?
And then suddenly, you know,the, the hood flares open, it's
spinning at you, at him.
And, you know, it's a scarything.
moment and it's like how do wego from zero to 100 you know

(10:00):
it's like what happened here sokid Derek was terrified I
remember having nightmares butthen for whatever reason I got
over it and I was like I want tosee it again my parents were
like why you're so scared I'mlike I don't know why but I need
to see it again so then I keptgoing back and watching it ever
since I've been That's been myfavorite movie.

SPEAKER_00 (10:21):
Yeah.
So I don't, I don't actuallyremember the first, I was trying
to think today that I don'tactually remember the first time
I watched it.
Um, I didn't see it at thecinema or a drive in.
Um, and I think that was down tothe fact that I was far too
scared of the Muppet ChristmasCarol that came out, um, the
Christmas before.
And, uh, yeah, I hid under mydad's coat.

(10:43):
It is, it's, it's when the, um,when, when the door knocker,
changes and it screams that didme yeah i was so that kind of
nixed any of my begging to tryand go and see this film when it
came to the cinema but i justalways remember it being there i
remember the endless wait for itto arrive on video which yeah

(11:06):
like it probably about 10 yearsat that time it is part of me
and i've you know i've seen it athousand times in including
today just before And every timeI see something new and yeah,
what amazed me actually today ishaving just read the novel,

(11:26):
reread the novel, is its paceand efficiency.
That first scene with theraptor.
is just so brilliant andmysterious.

SPEAKER_01 (11:37):
Oh, definitely.
Do you mean like the prologuewhere we don't even see it, we
just see the results of it's atag?
Yeah, it is brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
It owes a lot to Jaws and particularly the
inciting incident.
But it's a big part of Jurassicfilms.

SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
Yeah, and sadly not all of them.

SPEAKER_00 (11:55):
No, yes.
But most of

SPEAKER_01 (11:56):
them.

SPEAKER_00 (11:57):
Most of them.
And I think David kept just sucha fantastic job of taking that
rather wordy, Crichton book andI'm just you know packaging that
up and making it you know, ablockbuster film.
I take it you've read the book.

SPEAKER_01 (12:12):
Oh yeah.
Several times.
I especially love rereading it.
Well, rereading it air quotes asan audio book.
And there's a couple out therethat are unabridged.
My favorite being kind of a rareone by William Roberts, where he
just gets so into it.
Like this is the main roadattack.
Like he's almost growling ashe's talking.

(12:32):
Like it's not actually growling,but it's like, you feel that
visceral terror.
Yeah.
By the way, he reads it andlike, oh, my God.
But and actually there in the90s, there was an abridged audio
book read by the late JohnHeard, a.k.a.
the father from Home Alone ofall

SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
people.

SPEAKER_01 (12:52):
And it was pretty good for its time.
But, you know, it's an abridgedlike three hour version.
So it cuts a bunch of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
I love the music of it.
It has some sound effects aswell, doesn't it?
Yeah, it has some interestingcar journeys.

SPEAKER_01 (13:04):
Oh, yeah.
And actually, I took it uponmyself to actually find all the
music from that version.
It's all stock music.
Yeah.
And I was using like YouTube tolike identify it because, you
know, how you do get identifyaudio.
So I was kind of using it liketo help me find it instead of
actually being like a copyrightstrike kind of thing.
It's like, you know, using itsown tools to help me identify

(13:26):
things.
So I was able to find usingthat, all the music from that.
And it was all stock music fromdifferent people.
It wasn't just made by oneperson.

SPEAKER_00 (13:34):
You know, Kett wasn't the first person to
attempt to adapt this film byany means.
Who was the first person to tryand do this for Spielberg?

SPEAKER_01 (13:42):
Well, the first person was actually Michael
Crichton himself, which noteveryone really knows.
And I have some notes here,everyone, by the way, just so I
don't screw up some of thishistory and mess anything up as
best as I can.
I kind of wrote a lot of thisfrom memory, but I kind of
double checked some things.
But basically, Michael Cryancompleted two complete drafts.

(14:04):
The first one was in Septemberof 1990, which is crazy because
the novel came out in November1990.
So he was working on the scriptbefore his book was even
published.
officially published.
Like there was galleys, whatthey call like, you know, early
reader copies going to peopleinvolved in the production.

(14:24):
And obviously, when it was beingshopped to different studios,
that's the, the one good thingabout being a famous writer in
that at that point in hiscareer, like he was able to do
that before he even publishedhis work.
But anyway, so it's just crazyto me that he was doing this
script, you know, broken downversion of his own book.
And the said that in writingJurassic Park, because it took

(14:47):
him many years to write JurassicPark, apparently.
In fact, at one point, the novelwas from the perspective of the
kids, Tim and Lex, which iswild.
I wish that draft was out theresomewhere to see it.
But it eventually became fromthe perspective of adults,
obviously.
He didn't want anyone to makeany of the same mistakes he did

(15:10):
when trying to write his ownbook.
when he pared it down for ascript.
So that was the main reason whyhe took it upon himself.
He always knew that theywouldn't use his script.
It was kind of like a steppingstone for the next writers was
how it was done.
So yeah, his first draft of itwas in September 1990.
And it was mostly like hisnovel, but it included added

(15:34):
moments like Lex going back intothe shed at the dock during the
lagoon sequence to retrieve herbaseball mitt.
And she almost gets caught bythe T-Rex while doing so.
It's like, as if she wasn'tannoying enough in the book
causing the wrecks to come afterthem she goes and does this too
so it's like he actually madeher even less likable in this

(15:56):
script for some reason the wildthing from this script is that
Hammond had a secret radio inhis bungalow the whole time
because remember originallyHammond was kind of not a good
person in

SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
the book

SPEAKER_01 (16:09):
so that carried over in this first script so yeah he
had this secret like radio inhis bungalow the whole time and
then when he's caught heimmediately pours water on it so
no one can call the mainland soand this is after malcolm's
already been injured andeverything so he's like
knowingly putting this guy'slife on peril you know in peril

(16:33):
and it's just wild

SPEAKER_00 (16:35):
but

SPEAKER_01 (16:35):
um i know i was like he made him even more evil in
this script it's kind of amazing

SPEAKER_00 (16:42):
he had it in for him didn't

SPEAKER_01 (16:43):
they Oh, yeah.
I mean, he really wanted as heexplained it, the dark side of
Walt Disney, like that's what hewanted out of John Hammond in
the book.
And that's what he got,especially in this.
And Hammond's death in thisscript involves a skeleton
falling on him when he's insidethe visitor center rotunda after
the climax has happened.

(17:04):
And then the copies get him kindof like in the book.
So he still dies from copiesjust in a different setting,
basically.
So those are kind of like themajor things I remember from his
original script that weredifferent from the book.
At that point, there wasn'treally many ideas from the
production team.
It was mostly just stuff that heput in.

(17:24):
But he did do a second draft inJanuary 1991.
There was like some revisionsbetween that, but they were just
kind of like sections.
So his like second completeddraft was in 1991 of January.
And the most wild thing Iremember from this script is
that Nedry mentions how this ishis second shipment to Dodgson,

(17:46):
getting the embryos to him.
It's the second time he's donethis.

SPEAKER_00 (17:49):
Oh, wow.
Meaning

SPEAKER_01 (17:50):
that dinosaur embryos have already gotten off
the island.
As you can imagine, theimplications for the sequels,
that could have completelychanged everything if this
detail had remained past thisscript.
But it never went past thisscript.
It was just this one.
And I guess just a few othernotes from this script.
Al Hammond's death is in atheater room where a video of

(18:12):
him is playing on the screen.
He plays it to distract theRaptors so the kids can get away
to safety during the climax.
and when a raptor goes into thetheater it kills hammond it
after it kills him it like ripsapart the screen where his video
is playing of him talking it'skind of eerie there's
storyboards of that out theretoo

SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
oh really okay yeah that's cool

SPEAKER_01 (18:33):
uh speaking of raptors the opening of the
script has the the tina compyscene on the beach yes but it
seems to replace it with a babyraptor instead of a compy it's
kind of unclear because later onin that script it kind of makes
it seem like it was a babyraptor.
Yeah, because I think I thinkthey they got rid of copies
early on.
Like there was some storyboardsof the Tina Beach scene from

(18:57):
before the first script even.
but that's like the only timeI've ever seen storyboards of
the copies.
So, so yeah, that's the MichaelCrichton.
That's all he did for the movie.
He did those two scripts.

SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
Cause didn't, didn't, didn't production shut
down at some point?

SPEAKER_01 (19:12):
Yeah.
So production shut down, Ibelieve in 1991.
Yeah.
It was like early 1991, prettymuch not long after this script
was done by Crichton becauseSpielberg went to go film hook.
And during that time, his artdepartment team continued to
work while he was doing Hook.
Like they, they didn't just allgo home.

(19:34):
Like they were still trying tostoryboard sequences, either
from Crichton's script or fromstuff from the novel still, or
just ideas that they talkedabout from production meetings.
And one of those people didsomething a little crazy.
And that person was Rick Carter,the production designer.
And, you know, he oversees allthe like, production of like you

(19:57):
know the storyboard artists andeverything like David Lowery or
like the illustrators like JohnBell and everything but what he
did was and it's not something aproduction designer ever does he
cobbled together a script usingCrichton's final draft script
that he had provided he tookthat script and kind of just
rewrote parts of it some partswere identical but Most of the

(20:20):
beginning and the endingespecially were completely
rewritten by Rick Carter, who isnot a writer.
And he just plopped in theseideas and added his own kind of
makeshift dialogue to bring ittogether.
And it's a pretty unique script,which is why me at Jurassic
Time, I took a bunch of peopleand we created what I call

(20:42):
illustrated audio drama of usperforming it with the

SPEAKER_00 (20:45):
actual concept art.
It's fantastic, by the way.
It is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 (20:49):
Yeah, it's one of my favorite projects I've ever
worked on, especially because itwas like a group effort.
It was just such a fun thing todo.
The script is prettyinteresting.
Like there were several thingsthat were ideas from the art
department and Spielberg and thenovel and such as the lava
fields, which were kind ofmentioned in the novel that the
island was a bit volcanic or itpreviously was and there was

(21:09):
still like steam in places.
And it's just interestingbecause there's even artwork of
the lava fields and how thatkind of looked.
but it also had a baby raptorthat Grant rescues and carries
it in a makeshift pupus, I guessmade from like a shrink.
It's a cute visual to thinkabout, which then leads

SPEAKER_00 (21:29):
on.
I suppose that ties intoDominion that we get, you know,
with Owen and the baby blue.

SPEAKER_01 (21:34):
Yeah, as soon as I saw that, I was like, oh my God,
the pupus.
It's a better version of thepupus.
It's a backpack.
It's a bit cooler than a pupus,but we actually got that.
How funny.
Which in this script leads tothe raptor den.
which I don't remember it beingin any other script, except this
one that they go into, like inthe novel, they go into the
Raptor dead.
It's like underground tunnel.

(21:56):
Yeah.
And I actually prefer theplacement of this compared to
the novel.
Cause for people who've read thenovel after the big climax with
the Raptors in the visitorcenter happens, there's almost
like a, it almost feels like apostscript section where they
go, find the raptor den, thecount the eggs.
And it just, it always feltreally random to me.

(22:17):
Like we don't need this.
It's like we did.
It felt too extra.
Um, So in this script, it justhappens while they're lost in
the park.
They come across the baby raptorand it kind of like leads them
in a way to the raptor den.
This script by Rick Hart alsohad a shortened version of the
lagoon sequence.
It's interesting.

(22:37):
It just kept getting shorter andshorter until it was

SPEAKER_00 (22:39):
just gone completely.
Just gone completely.

SPEAKER_01 (22:42):
Completely gone.
And then some interestingdetails though.
Hammond wants Grant and Sattlerto work for him at the park,
which I think that's kind of acool...
idea and Hammond seems to die inevery script except for you know
David Koepp's version so in thisversion his death is in the
control room also by a raptorbut in this one he actually

(23:03):
falls on a model of the parkreminiscent to the one seen in
Fallen Kingdom so it's likethere's the model it came from
yeah this so I just found thatreally interesting there's
storyboards of that too so likemaybe someone saw this park
model and like oh yeah yeahlockwood's manor and i think it
was intended this way in thescript and in the artwork like
it's kind of intended to be likeoh the fall of his park you know

(23:25):
with him literally falling onhis park kind of thing as he
dies yeah there was also anextended ending with the t-rex
attacking the helicopter as theytry to leave the island which i
mean and there's artwork forthat too and it's just really

SPEAKER_00 (23:38):
that was cut because of like practicalities or things
you know because i

SPEAKER_01 (23:42):
think so and like it In a way, it's almost like how
the novel went a little tooextra with the Raptor Den.
In a way, maybe this would havefelt a little too extra as well
in terms of the pacing.
I mean, I know the reason whythey added it in the first
place, because this is the firsttime they did that, was because
Spielberg did want the Rex tocome back at the end, but they
just couldn't figure it out.
So that was like their firstattempt of doing that, was

(24:04):
having it come back and attackthe helicopter, which we ended
up basically getting at theopening of Fallen Kingdom.
A lot of these things went toFallen Kingdom.
My

SPEAKER_00 (24:15):
favorite bit of the film, I think.

SPEAKER_01 (24:17):
Oh, easily.
I think for most people it is.
It's such a good incitingincident.
So that's basically the bigdifferences I noted from Rick
Carter's draft, which is more ofa working document is what they
officially like to call itbecause they don't want to get
in trouble by the Script WritersGuild or whatever.
There was actually one writer...

(24:37):
After this, Malia Scotch-Marmot,who actually did script work for
Hook.
So, you know, Rick Carter'sdocument was just to kind of
like bring the ideas ofeverything together, you know,
just to kind of show Steven likethis is how they could be
integrated into the movie.
So from there, MaliaScotch-Marmot did her own
script, you know, working veryclosely with Spielberg.

(24:59):
And, you know, he met herthrough Hook.
So like after he was done withthat movie, he was like, oh, why
don't you come along and try outJurassic Park for us?
Basically, her draft is totallydifferent and unique with a
focus on mosquitoes.
Like she had very much amosquito obsession in her
script.
Like they kept coming up indifferent ways, I guess, because
the whole Amber connection.

(25:20):
Yeah.
But also the jungle like isslowly taking over elements in
the park.
You know, even before it opens,like things are kind of like
like vines coming into thevisitor center where they
shouldn't be, almost just toshow that nature is trying to
reclaim kind of thing.
So it's got interesting ideas.
And in this version, Hammondgets left behind on the island.

(25:43):
So I try to remember, he mightstumble and fall like he does in
the book.
I don't remember exactly...
Like if he, he's just kind ofleft on his own to die kind of
thing.
And again, he always dies untilKep comes in.
So it's just funny.
That's why I have an article ofonce I wrote called the many
deaths of John Hammond.

(26:04):
The Lagoon sequence is basicallygone, but there is just like an
attack during the raft ride.
They still go on a raft.
And I guess another big thing isIan Malcolm is not in the script
at all, which is interesting.
But to be fair, this kind ofcombining or omitting characters
happen with pretty much everyscreenwriter and kind of
depended on like sometimesmalcolm would be gone or ed

(26:26):
regis would be gone or generawould be gone people remember
this one for omitting malcolmthe most because this was
actually the first script thatleaked online many years ago

SPEAKER_00 (26:35):
okay okay

SPEAKER_01 (26:36):
so yeah for for a long time the molly scotch
marble draft was the onlydrastic script

SPEAKER_00 (26:41):
i think i read it years and years ago and i
remember that being like astandout thing as where's
malcolm

SPEAKER_01 (26:47):
yeah where's malcolm yeah so that's why but it's not
unique to this script but itjust kind of feels like it is to
people because again yeah it'sthe one that has been around the
longest which is odd because itwas only one draft and I'm like
who else got this and put it outthere which finally leads us to
David Koepp and he had severaldrafts beginning in late April

(27:10):
through December of 1992.
Believe it or not because DavidKoepp actually shared his
original draft on his ownwebsite a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_00 (27:18):
Oh really?

SPEAKER_01 (27:19):
Yeah and it has like handwritten notes on it and
everything like it's such a coolthing he did from what i
remember kep also omittedmalcolm from his original script
so there you go like he took himout too i think the reason
people were scared of malcolmbeing in the movie was that he
was just too heavy on histheories and that people
wouldn't be interested but hegot added back in i don't know i

(27:41):
forget if my memory serving meright but i think they brought
malcolm back in because of jeffgoldblum like his

SPEAKER_00 (27:47):
audition yeah that's what i've heard

SPEAKER_01 (27:49):
this script also has lex writing the baby you
Triceratops, which was notsomething that happens in the
novel.
Some people, for whateverreason, feel like, oh, just like
in the novel.
I'm like, no, no, no.
She never rides it in the novel.
She plays with it, kind of, andtalks to it, but she never
actually rides it.

SPEAKER_00 (28:07):
Yeah, I've seen the models of the little trike,
yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
Yeah, the Stan Winston model.
It was completed, painted, andeverything, but then they never
filmed it.
They cut it before they evenfilmed it, which is...
I think for the best, especiallysince they changed the ages of
the kids, you know, having theolder Lex ride a baby
triceratops.
I couldn't see her doing that.
But most notably in Kep'soriginal draft, the climax was a

(28:32):
bit different.
It was still in the rotunda withthe raptors going after Grant
and the others.
But they're trying to get downfrom the upper level of the
skeletons in the condor lift.
And the raptors just kind of tryto jump and bite at them as
Grant's trying to operate thiscondor lift to raise and lower.
And then it knocks against theskeleton kind of thing.

(28:54):
So the...
T-Rex does not come in to savethe day at the end of this
original Kep ending.
Instead, John Hammond actuallycomes in saving the day by
shooting the last raptorstanding.
So he goes from you know dyingin every version to being the
hero suddenly so quite a quite ajourney his character went on

(29:17):
yeah that's like the biggestdifference I remember from Kep's
like early drafts and thatending climax stuck stuck around
for a while because they youknow as the story goes they
changed the climax with the Rexcoming in to save the day kind
of last minute they kind of hadto like storyboarded very
quickly.
In fact, if you see thestoryboards that I believe David

(29:38):
Lowery did, they're verysketch-like compared to his
other ones.
They're very loose kind oflines.
So you could tell it was just avery quick thing that they chose
to do and plan out.
I think we could all agree thatit was the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 (29:51):
Yeah, I love the fact that Spielberg wanted the
Rex to come back and he was theone that really pushed for it.
And I think they probably didthat even when they were filming
this.

SPEAKER_01 (29:58):
Yeah, I think the way Rick Carter explained it was
Spielberg Spielberg was kind ofexplaining that scene, you know,
like, oh, so the T-Rex comes inand it bites the raptor, blah,
blah, blah.
And then I think Rick asked him,like, well, where does the T-Rex
come from?
And then Spielberg said, fromthe top of the frame.

(30:19):
But of course, you know, Rickmeant like, where literally does
it come from?
But Spielberg would never, hedoesn't think that way.
He thinks of the dramaticmoment, like, oh, it comes from
the top of the frame.
What are you talking about?
So aren't you glad I took notes?
Because that was the last time Iwanted to get it right.

SPEAKER_00 (30:35):
That was fantastic.
I think, what's your thoughtabout the cast that we have?
You kind of, Laura Dern, SamNeill, and Jeff Goldblum

SPEAKER_01 (30:44):
I mean I guess I'll just point out I did see the
movie I think like most peoplebefore I read the book so yes in
a way I was never comparingcharacters like that when I
watched the movie and I stilldon't honestly like I still
think of them as the charactersso I feel like the cast that he
chose and I think he did thisintentionally you know was very

(31:05):
believable I guess especiallyback then they weren't really
established actors Laura Dernkind of was and Jeff Goldblum
kind of was like from the flyand everything but they were
never like huge movies back thenI just I think it was kind of
they felt very natural youdidn't feel like they were
trying to just use their starpower glow and they all just

(31:26):
felt so quirky in that special90s way that felt very but like
naturally quirky though not likefor quirkiness sake like they
really felt like real people

SPEAKER_00 (31:38):
and i think they had such a difficult and unique job
to do because this had neverbeen attempted before the
reacting to things that weren'tthere so the dinosaurs being cgi
so they really had to sell

SPEAKER_01 (31:51):
it no it definitely does and i think especially with
the scientific stuff it was sosmart of david kept um and i
guess spielberg to come up withmr dna to explain the science
and the informational video likeit just made perfect sense
because that was definitely nota thing until uh kept came in
and did that i think in theprevious scripts they they

(32:13):
sometimes had a video but itwould just be like hammond
talking or ed regis talking kindof thing it was just more like a
typical informational video butto actually make it be a cartoon
you know in a way it's likeintentionally dumbing down the
science so everyone couldunderstand in a movie you have
to you know what I meanespecially for

SPEAKER_00 (32:34):
yeah

SPEAKER_01 (32:35):
you know that kind of science it's very complicated
science it's

SPEAKER_00 (32:38):
just amazing that that was yeah just that little
scene can do can do all of thatheavy lifting

SPEAKER_01 (32:45):
oh yeah yeah so much heavy lifting i should note too
in kep's original draft forwhatever reason he actually
mentions mr dna having ajamaican accent

SPEAKER_00 (32:55):
right okay

SPEAKER_01 (32:56):
instead of a southern accent that would have
been interesting it would havebeen an interesting difference
yeah um yeah the actors reactingto nothing to be fair though
they at least did haveanimatronics like plenty of
animatronics to react to i'msure they probably got shown
concept art as well becausethere was plenty of that to go
around but yeah they definitelykind of paved the way for that,

(33:19):
I think.

SPEAKER_00 (33:20):
And on those animatronics, you know, Stan
Winston, the man was a genius togive everything that he created
life, particularly, I think, inthe T-Rex attack sequence on the
main road and the raptors in thekitchen.

SPEAKER_01 (33:34):
Oh, yeah.
And totally, you totally buy it.
Like, to this day, I watch thatmovie and the animatronics
especially, but even the CGI inmany scenes really just, I still
don't know how they reallypulled it off, especially
because they did movies, youknow, before and since that
movie where I don't think it waspulled off as well for whatever

SPEAKER_00 (33:53):
reason.
You watch it now and you can'tbelieve that that is 30-year-old
technology.
The first iteration of it and itstill looks better than some of
the stuff.
I feel like I sound really oldnow.
I do understand that.
It feels more real.

SPEAKER_01 (34:08):
Oh, yeah.
I think part of it is honestlythey spent so much time
perfecting it for...
just this movie because theywere trying to prove something.
I think that made the differencebecause ever since then, They
weren't trying to prove itanymore.
They already proved they coulddo it.
So they just wanted to dowhatever they wanted with it
after that.

(34:28):
And it didn't mean actuallyrefining it to the point where
you can't tell the difference,which in many cases you couldn't
tell the difference in the firstmovie.
I think that

SPEAKER_00 (34:38):
might be part of it.
And it's the two effects workingin tandem, isn't it?
The animatronics and the CGI.
They're there to complement thestory rather than being...
the focus.
The T-Rex on the main road sceneis just, I just, watching it
today, you know, the musicdisappears and you feel like
you're being, like the wholecrew are just leaving you.

SPEAKER_01 (35:01):
Oh man, I mean, it's basically the perfect sequence.
Like, I think people who evenstudy films say it's like one of
the best sequences ever filmedfor any movie, which is funny
because there's actually someyou know, minor inconsistencies
if you're looking out for them,but it, but it's kind of like
what I was saying earlier aboutlike, you know, coming from the

(35:22):
top of the frame, like itdoesn't matter when you're so
invested in what is happeningand like you're, you're in the
car with them.
And that's just a terrifyingthing to actually feel, to feel
that, uh, honestly like if itwas done today from a different
filmmaker they probably wouldhave had like a ton of wide
shots and everything to reallyshow the creature more than

(35:45):
anything else and

SPEAKER_00 (35:46):
yeah you only get one don't you when it first
steps out yeah that's the onlykind of big wide shot and also
the what i also watching it theimpact tremors and the glass
shaking a lot and you know thatit's coming and it's like the
music endures and you feels likejust the ominous sense of
something massive coming and i'mso surprised that in the

(36:07):
Jurassic World films it wasn'treused

SPEAKER_01 (36:10):
no I don't think once even I'm trying to remember
if it ever got used yeah itnever was and even Jurassic Park
3 used it in the opening titles

SPEAKER_00 (36:20):
yeah I was just I was thinking how amazing would
it have been if they'dintroduced the Giganotosaurus
with that.
Like you had the rippling andthe impact tremors.
And then when it actually turnedup, it wasn't the T-Rex.
It was something much bigger,much badder.
And that would have, yeah, I'dlike to see that kind of
introduction to that character.

(36:41):
There was issues with the T-Rexduring that scene.
Of course, it got very wetbecause it was driving rain.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (36:49):
It

SPEAKER_00 (36:50):
started to shake after about 10 minutes as they
had to dry it down with a towel.
Have you ever seen this livewith the kind of orchestra?

SPEAKER_01 (36:58):
Yes, I have.
Actually, I think at least threetimes.
And one of them was at thefamous Hollywood Bowl, which I
also saw John Williams perform acouple of times.
Yeah, it was amazing to see himperform.
It is amazing.
I recommend anyone in any formatto watch the live performance.
Jurassic Park.

SPEAKER_00 (37:18):
Yeah.
I saw it at the Royal AbbottHall for the 20, 20, 20th, 25th,

SPEAKER_01 (37:24):
maybe.

SPEAKER_00 (37:24):
Oh yeah.
I think it was 25th.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that was just, yeah, just atthat moment when the main road
happens.
And now I think of it every timeI watch it.
It's like the conductor puttingdown his baton.

SPEAKER_01 (37:35):
And I love how, because they do an intermission
for the live version and for theintermission, they do a brief
bit from The Lost World, whichis great.

SPEAKER_00 (37:42):
Yes.
And I'd never thought of thatbeing the midway, like with
Nedry and Samuel Jackson's lineof, we can't get Jurassic Park
back online without DennisNedry.
And you're like, that is theperfect midpoint for this film.
Of course, that is theintermission point of this
story.

SPEAKER_01 (38:00):
It's like a cliffhanger in a way.
It's like, oh, no.
Like, what are we going to do?
Like, and he's off on his ownright now and doing bad stuff.

SPEAKER_00 (38:07):
I definitely think that talking about Nedry in that
whole moment, it feels like ahorror film.

SPEAKER_01 (38:13):
No, I agree.
I mean, my six-year-old selfwould agree because remember
that was the scene that I lostit.
I was like, oh God.
I mean, yeah, the T-Rex scenewas terrifying, but I guess
because you kind of expected it.
I wasn't as scared as a kid, butwith the spitter again, I didn't
see it coming really.
So it was like a horror film.
moment like it's like a legithorror moment kind of like when

(38:35):
the raptor attacks Ellie frombehind in the shed like that's
like a legit horror moment theretoo that's like a horror movie
trope yeah honestly JurassicPark to me it's a multi-genre
story which I seem to gravitatetoward those as like my favorite
kind of stories where you can'treally pinpoint exactly where it
goes like it's kind of a bunchof things rolled into one so I

(38:59):
mean I think Jurassic Park islike a adventure sci-fi horror
story like that's the the threemain groups i would put it
together with i think it's allthe better for it especially
when the jurassic world films ifeel like they lost the horror
unfortunately

SPEAKER_00 (39:16):
yeah nedry's death in the book is really gory and
it just made me think thatspielberg's so good at taking
that horror and making it stillterrifying but appropriate to
everybody it feels believablethe pain that nedry goes through
We've all got something at somepoint in our eye.
And the fact that it is thatextreme close-up on him rubbing

(39:37):
at his eyes, it's just...

SPEAKER_01 (39:39):
Relatable.

SPEAKER_00 (39:41):
Yeah, relatable.
Relatable horror.
It doesn't need the gory detailthat the book gives you.

SPEAKER_01 (39:46):
Oh, yeah.
And actually, I came across aMichael Crichton quote from I
think it was some magazine likeStarlog or something.
And he actually mentioned...
in this article that he was gladthat the movie was not as gory
as his book because he alsobelieves that with books you can
be extra gory for effect andit's okay because it's just the

(40:10):
person imagining it and in factyou kind of have to go a little
further in books to really makeyour point but he says for the
movie medium you don't have todo that to sell the same point
you know anyone who's criticizedlike oh I wish I Jurassic Park
was more like the book, youknow, in the movie form, you
know, like James Cameron'saliens kind of thing which is

(40:32):
funny because he almost got todo jurassic park at one point
but even the original authoragrees like you know it didn't
need to be that gory for it tobe effective and i i definitely
agree books and movies aredifferent mediums you don't have
to be slavish

SPEAKER_00 (40:46):
it's uh yeah it's it's interesting to think of the
other people that might have gotjurassic i mean it always felt
like it was because spielbergand crichton went back years i
think they first met whenspielberg was asked to take
crichton around the sets orsomething i for Andromeda Strain
when that was being made in theearly 70s.
I think Tim Burton was putforward.

(41:09):
Richard Donner, I think fromSuperman, I suppose, because
they, you know, specialisteffect heavy film could have
dealt with it.

SPEAKER_01 (41:16):
And the Goonies, which was an Amblin.

SPEAKER_00 (41:18):
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Yeah, Amblin.
Yeah, it feels it feels rightthat this is Spielberg.

SPEAKER_01 (41:23):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, he and he clearlyalready had an interest in
dinosaurs because he producedThe Land Before Time, the Don
Bluth animated film, which isalso really good.
Sad.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bambi for dinosaurs.
Yeah, it's no, I do thinkSpielberg was the right person

(41:45):
for because if they had donesomething more slavish to the
book, you know, like a JamesCameron aliens, gory action
style movie, I don't think itwould have become such a
cultural icon that it is nowbecause Spielberg made it more
accessible to I mean, I wouldn'tsay everyone because kids at my
age were not supposed to see it.

(42:06):
But, you know, it was kind ofpossible because it wasn't our
at least.
So, you know, parents were morelike, oh, OK, I guess so, you
know, kind of thing, even thoughprobably still shouldn't have.
But

SPEAKER_00 (42:18):
kids love it.
Kids love that.
That kind of be scared.
Yeah, they love to be scared.
But like yourself, youunderstand that afterwards, like
a like a theme park ride, thatit's safe.
Oh, nothing bad happened.
And I enjoyed those bits and youkind of watch it again.
And I think Spielbergunderstands that perfectly.
Because Crichton in the book,his way of writing kids is like

(42:41):
Lex and Tim.
Lex in particular is bloodyannoying.
Spielberg always has that kid'seye view you know he knows he
seems to be able to rememberwhat it was like being a child
and can put that on screen soeffortlessly

SPEAKER_01 (42:59):
oh yeah and i think at that point you know spielberg
already knew that kids wereinfatuated with with dinosaurs
there was like a big dinosaurresurgence of interest in the
80s especially like the late 80sfor whatever reason they were
like a big hot topic and so heknew that if he made a dinosaur

(43:19):
movie that kids couldn't seethat they would be missing out
on on an audience but also youknow for merchandising actually
because you know they do thinkabout those things and you know
jurassic park certainly hadquite the merchandise um i
remember it was everywhere evenlike the mcdonald's commercials
and everything like it was oneof the biggest marketing

(43:39):
campaigns i think for any moviemaybe ever.
I don't know.
Like it's, it's definitely, itwas everywhere more than maybe
star Wars is the only one whoever had a bigger marketing
campaign.
It was, it was, it was the rightcall for sure.
And I think at this pointSpielberg was already a parent,
if I'm not mistaken.

(44:00):
So yeah, I think he just hadkids at that time.
Cause I know when he did hook, Ithink that's what attracted him
to do that movie.
Cause it was about likeparenthood.
Like, you know, that was, um,peter's happy thought at the end
of hook was that he was a fatherbasically um so i i think that
really spoke to spielberg andyou know then he went on to do
jurassic park so i think he hadhe probably got even better at

(44:22):
directing kids than when hestarted to be honest

SPEAKER_00 (44:25):
we've talked a few times about continuity issues
maybe with jurassic park and iget you know when i talk to
people and people you know thataren't quite as obsessed as me
about the film they're likethere's quite a few you know
inconsistencies with the withthe film but there's one that i
think think can be attributed toKubrick there's a door that
opens when Grant first meetsHammond in the trailer at the

(44:50):
dig site and he opens the doorone way and then the shot
changes and you see he's openedthe door another way and I think
it might be a continuity error alegitimate one but there's a
moment in The Shining thishappens when he goes in the
freezer the walk-in freezer andKubrick didn't make mistake
Everything that is in this filmis in there for a reason.

(45:14):
And Spielberg was such a bigKubrick fan and obviously a
friend of him.
And I was thinking of the storymoment of that is...
That's when the story changesand it kind of, we leave
reality.
We go into Hammond's fantasyworld.
And so that Grant leaving hisdig site with the dinosaurs in
their state that he's just leftthem.

(45:34):
And when he passes through thatdoor, his life will change.
And that is, I don't know.
I like that a lot.
I'm completely wrong.

SPEAKER_01 (45:41):
No, I mean, I actually never thought of it
that way, but I like that a lot.
So we're just going to say it istrue.
We're just going to say it istrue because no one's going to
tell us otherwise, probably.
No, no, no.
It's funny you mentionedcontinuity in that scene though,
because the one continuity errorperhaps that I've always noticed

(46:01):
is the handkerchief that Hammondhas when he's kind of wiping the
wine bottle.
It goes from like white to pinksomehow.
Unless there's like a sleight ofhand and he's grabbing a
different one.
It's really kind

SPEAKER_00 (46:16):
of funny when you notice.
Yeah, I've noticed that as well.
And I wonder whether that speaksto the fact that Spielberg was
directing Richard Attenborough,a titan.
And how do you stop somebody whois giving you a great
performance to say, oh, you'reusing a big pink towel now.

(46:36):
I mean, it is ridiculous becauseit is, you know, he's using a
bath towel essentially to wipethose glasses.
Yeah.
I think it might be Spielbergjust going, I'm just in awe of
watching this man and I can'tbelieve he's agreed to do my
film.

SPEAKER_01 (46:52):
Well, I think that's the kind of the editorial
choices, um, like him and editorMichael Kahn seem to make in a
lot of his movies, like theydon't always go for the
technically perfect take.
They go for just the best takein terms of performance or just
in visual appeal or, you know,what have you.
So I wouldn't be surprised if itwas a performance choice for

(47:16):
that because, you know, likeSpielberg said with the whole,
you know, Rex coming in, it'slike, you know, you're not going
to, care about thetechnicalities when you're in
the moment so it's like thefocus of the scene is what
Hammond is talking about youknow to them and his kind of
quirkiness not you know thetallies holding like people
don't really notice those thingsnormally unless they're on

(47:36):
rewatch like us and look for itthat's why I don't like cinema
sins it just ruins it it's not afun way to watch a movie but The
rumor, though, is that GeorgeLucas actually kind of was part
of the editor's room during thattime and made certain choices,

(47:57):
including recutting the Ellie inthe shed scene.
And that's why.
Yeah.
And that's why John Williamsoriginal music for that.
I think it was called HungryRaptor was the track title.
It got mostly dropped.
except for like the second halfof it because the scene got
recut by Lucas.
So they just kind of tracked inmusic from earlier or later in

(48:20):
the score.
That's one of the rumors anyway.
I forget where.

SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
Yeah, I've heard that too.
And I've heard the fact that hewas definitely present for the
editing quite heavily becauseSpielberg was away, I think for
the CGI.
And that's what gave him theconfidence to do that.
episode one.
So

SPEAKER_01 (48:36):
we can blame Spielberg for the prequels then.
Do

SPEAKER_00 (48:44):
you think that's the lasting legacy of, and not the
prequels in particular, but whatdo you think the lasting legacy
of Jurassic Park is?

SPEAKER_01 (48:53):
Oh man, I mean it's kind of sad in a way because you
would think the legacy would bethe best way to integrate
special effects into a story andto use it well.
But then half of the sequelsdidn't abide by its own lesson
from its own franchise, in myopinion.
Even comparing Jurassic World toJurassic Park, you can't even

(49:16):
really do it because they don'thave the same intent.
Jurassic World the whole time issetting up reverence for
Jurassic Park in its own ways,whether it's successful or not
is up to the viewer.
But Jurassic Park was justtrying to prove itself, which I
think...
is a lot.
more important i think and tojust show the world like this is

(49:38):
this is what a movie can be youknow and i think that's what i
get from it like this is howgood movies can be when trying
to tell an incredible story

SPEAKER_00 (49:46):
yeah it's it's obviously i'm gonna say it's
fantastic but i think it youknow it's a classic for a reason

SPEAKER_01 (49:52):
oh yeah especially the first movie in particular
because they fly off into thesunset it's not trying to set
anything up it's it's it's thereto tell you a complete story in
the best way that it possiblycan and And...
I think there's a lost art tothat these days with those kind
of adventure movies, you know,you know, I'm also just speaking

(50:13):
of like, high budget movies,because obviously, there's still
plenty of great movies beingmade, you know, it's a lost art
of how blockbusters used to bemade, hoping, praying that
rebirth absorbs more of that.
They're kind of making claimsthat it will, like I said
before, it remains to be seen.
I Yeah, again, I'm praying forthat to be the case.

(50:33):
And I mean, they can leavebreadcrumbs if they want, but
it's like, don't focus on thebreadcrumbs, you know, it's
just.
focus on this story if i wasworking there i i would just
have like a really small verytiny movie basically trespasser
the movie would be great youknow like castaway meets
dinosaurs

SPEAKER_00 (50:53):
and speaking of trespasser that leads me quite
nicely to talk to and ask youabout jurassic time

SPEAKER_01 (50:58):
oh man i mean the the history of jurassic time
essentially it started quite afew years ago i think back all
the way to like 2007 where i youknow played the computer game
trust Passer, which those whodon't know, that was a 1997
computer game, kind of anextension of the Lost World, you
know, the second sequel ofJurassic Park.

(51:19):
And, you know, kind of like howI mentioned this little fake
pitch I just made where it'slike a woman is stranded on the
island alone with dinosaurs andhas to get off.
But part of that game that wasso great was Richard
Attenborough reprised his roleas John Hammond and read
basically his memoir of JohnHammond.
And you hear little bits of itthroughout the game.

(51:39):
And...
You know, as the years went on,less people play the game, less
people could even play the gameproperly without, you know,
doing mods and stuff like that.
To this day, you still have tokind of like set things up
properly before you can play it.
But I thought his performance asHammond kind of was even better
than what was in the movies, inmy opinion.
Like it just really, the storyhe tells and the way he tells it

(52:02):
is just kind of emotional thewhole time.
I really wanted...
to kind of capture hisperformance and kind of share it
with people beyond the game,which was impossible, you know,
until I decided to extract allof his audio from the game.
And in the game, everything iskind of placed randomly
throughout locations, you justhear a random bit, there was no

(52:25):
real storytelling narrative.
I just kind of arranged it in away that I thought was the best
storytelling kind ofperspective, you know, and then
I set it to music from the gamecomposed by Bill Brown, who was
amazing game composer.
He still composes to this day,but mostly just for like smaller
films.
Yeah.
And then I added, eventually Iadded sound effects from the

(52:47):
game as well to kind of justmake it more interesting for
people, like an actual audiodrama.
That kind of became the thing Iwas best known for for a while
was this audio drama version ofHammond's Memoirs from Jurassic
Park.
And I called it Jurassic Time,which that title came from the
strategy guide of Trespasser,actually, because

SPEAKER_00 (53:07):
that's what they call his memoir.
I didn't actually know where itcame from.
That's really interesting.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (53:11):
Yeah.
And that's the only time I'veseen it described as Jurassic
Jurassic Time was in thatstrategy guide.
So I was like, well, I'll justcall that you know, Jurassic
time then, because that's whatthe strategy guy says his like
memoir was called or whatever.
So, so from there, during thepandemic, let's just say I had a
lot more time on my hands toscope people out, try to
interview people who were partof the Jurassic Park films.

(53:35):
Essentially, I'll just go downthe line of the biggest names
like Rick Carter, productiondesigner, Rick Carter, you know,
john bell, the art director,David Lowery, storyboard artist,
john Gurchy, he was a conceptartist, Caroline Quinn.
She was a art departmentcoordinator, even Dino Don
Lessam.
I even...
Got to talk to Leo Bierenberg,the composer of Camp Cretaceous

(53:59):
and Chaos Theory.
When season one came out of CampCretaceous, I was able to get an
interview with him.
I think the first one reallywith him that anyone had done.
One of the other big names ofshame is Blackley.
He created Trespasser and alsocreated a little thing called
the Xbox.
So when I did Rick Carter'sJurassic Park, the illustrated

(54:20):
audio drama from his script,someone was able to help me get
in contact with him.
And they warned me, though, he'seither going to really like it
or really hate it.
And I'm like, oh, my God, that'sterrifying.
But fortunately, he loved it.
And it led to me being involvedin some art exhibits of his

(54:41):
because he lives in L.A.
And I live about three hoursfrom L.A.
So I was able to get there forsome of these events.
And funnily enough, I made likea Blu-ray of of the rick carter
program and i gave it to rickand someone there saw me do this
and he recognized the jurassictime logo on the back

SPEAKER_00 (55:00):
and

SPEAKER_01 (55:01):
he's like i know who you are and he was wearing um a
mask because it was like covidwas still going on during that
time so i didn't see his faceinitially like who is this and
then i found out it was seamusblackley and so that's how I met
Seamus Blackley and then hewanted me to interview him about
not only Trespasser but theJurassic World game that he was

(55:22):
involved in creating beforethere was a movie which that's a
crazy story which

SPEAKER_00 (55:28):
we all got very excited about when we saw the
trailer I remember that

SPEAKER_01 (55:32):
yeah that little pitch trailer with the pterosaur
like flying off with the surferand everything like we were all
so confused for years like whatthat was like it was a part of
the movie but no it was part ofa game which is kind of weird in
a way like that's what it was Ispoke to all these people and
it's just it's just amazing thatthey gave you know just a fan

(55:52):
that kind of time to talk tothem you know and about these
stories and I feel like some ofthem especially in the art
department they don't always gettheir spotlight and I feel like
They should, because when yousee the illustrations of like
the storyboards of the conceptart and how it's so often
closely resembles in the finalproduct of the movie, part of

(56:14):
the movie's vision definitelycomes from these people.
Like the movies are acollaborative effort.
They're not just one person.
I think too often just oneperson does get credit, which,
you know, as amazing asSpielberg is, it isn't all him.
Most of the time when peoplewould talk about Jurassic Park
and interviews and even specialdocumentaries and videos, they

(56:35):
would only talk about thespecial effects, which to me, I
was getting bored to death byit.
I mean, it's like, I get it.
It was an amazing specialeffects movie, but there was so
much more.
interesting details that wentinto it including like the
script writing process that wetalked about and what went into
the artwork and everything thedifferent concepts that they

(56:56):
came up with got rid of thenbrought back like there's this a
Interesting history, especiallyfor Jurassic Park, because it
had a very long pre-production.
You know, they startedpre-production in 1990,
basically, when those scriptswere being written.
And, you know, they didn't startfilming until 1992.
So, you know, there's that muchtime, years of pre-production.

(57:17):
That's not really normal,especially these days.
Like Jurassic World Rebirthdidn't get that.
You know, speaking of JurassicPark scripts from earlier, I...
have to mention that I was alsoa consultant on Jurassic Park,
the official script book thatInside Editions did back in late

(57:38):
2023.
And that alone was quite anexperience.
We spent months working on likethe interior of the book, I
donated a bunch of images forthem to use that were part of
the concept art from theoriginal Jurassic Park, a lot of
rare images that were not in theprevious Jurassic Park ultimate

(58:01):
visual history book.
So it's definitely one of themore proud things I've done.
And I definitely think mostJurassic Park fans would love
it.
I mean, it came from a fan, youknow, working hard at it.
So, you know, I have to thankJames Matram, the writer of that
book for getting me involved andfor, you know, kind of giving my

(58:23):
own personal touch to the wholething.
But yeah, I think it turned outpretty well.
Apart from the book cover, a lotof people criticized the book
cover and I don't blame them.
That was like the one thing Ihad zero involvement in.
So I'm really proud with how itturned out.
So I do hope people enjoy it ifthey check it out.
But anyway, back to back toJurassic Time.

(58:46):
So yeah, all those interviews,you know, kind of got me more
more notice and especially theRick Carter's Jurassic Park
program because I got noticed byRick Carter.
So that was like to me, that waslike the ultimate confirmation
that, you know, I was doingsomething that people
appreciated, which is, you know,I wanted something that had
value.
you know, either a quality to itor something that people just

(59:09):
had interest in, that peoplewanted to know about these
stories.

SPEAKER_00 (59:11):
And you're now telling...
a story with your first book,Invertiverse.
Please tell me a little bit moreabout it.
I've read the first, you sent methe first few chapters and I
love it.
I'm hooked.
I'm in.
I'm ready.
So yeah, can you give me alittle synopsis and kind of tell
me where the idea came from?

SPEAKER_01 (59:30):
Yeah.
But yeah, the full synopsis, andI'm just going to read it.
Dangerous creatures, peculiardisappearances, mysterious urban
ruins.
It was easy for David Andrews tobe entranced by Juniper Valley's
legends.
But when his up David's entirelife becomes derailed.
Years later, an alarmingincident leads him and an

(59:52):
estranged friend into the depthsof their town's chilling
history.
A startling discovery lies inwait that will force them on a
frantic journey.
across the multiverse.
Alternate worlds with viciousmonsters and treacherous
landscapes won't be their onlychallenges.
They will have to overcome theirown haunted past if they ever
wish to return home.

(01:00:12):
And there is also a chance thatDavid can finally confess his
true feelings to the same personhe had lost.
And that last bit right therewhere it's like, oh, I hope that
brings them in.
Yeah, it does.
What does that mean?
But I'm glad you're enjoying itso far.
And I'll just slightly give awaybecause you did read the

(01:00:34):
prologue, especially theinciting incident, which or a
inciting incident.
I wouldn't call it the incitingincident of my story, but it is
a inciting incident that doesbecome referenced and is
important later on.
But it's very much a StephenKing-inspired opening, you know,
Children in Peril.
So it's like Spielberg andStephen King kind of opening

(01:00:57):
chapter, Child in Peril.
Because I feel like if a childis in peril, that means anyone
is game.
But as for the inspiration forthis story...
It had been in my head for many,many years.
I remember I did a really weirdversion of the story in high
school that was centered aroundlike the Bermuda Triangle, where

(01:01:19):
the Bermuda Triangle was like aportal to another world,
basically.
And they get sucked into like awhirlpool, essentially.
There's definitely concepts inhere that are 20 years old,
which is very, really nuts.
But no, I've been working onthis book specifically for about
a decade, which is also kind ofcrazy because I was trying to
juggle like real life work andstuff like that as I'm trying to

(01:01:39):
write it.
And it just wasn't clickingproperly until, again, when the
pandemic happened and I suddenlyhad more time to devote just to
the book.
And that's where I think itreally found its footing,
finally.
At the same time, and I don'trecommend this, but I was
actually having illustrationscreated while I was writing the

(01:02:00):
book.
Even before I had a first draftdone, I had outlines done.
But there was no actual draftand I was already getting
artwork made for it from variouspeople.
But another unique thing I did,because I've always loved
orchestral film scores, and Ifeel like I've always been a
struggling composer in my head.
I tried to learn music when Iwent to college briefly, and it

(01:02:25):
was like an introduction tomusic class.
But on the first day, theyalready assumed you knew how to
write notations.
I'm like, yeah, I don't know howto do that.
So I had to drop it.
It was really upsetting becauseI really wanted to learn.
So, you know, I always hadthemes in my head ever since
high school again.
I always had music themes in myhead.
I would hum as I walked homefrom school and everything.

(01:02:46):
But then when I was coming upwith the story, I just had this
weird idea.
Like, what if the book had itsown soundtrack?
And I found various people whocould play music by ear.
So I would hum out every track,and they would replicate it
based on my humming.
And it's kind of a thematicscore, you know, like different

(01:03:08):
characters with different themesand different ideas, and they
kind of play off each other attimes.
So yeah, I just really wantedthe story to be almost...
As much as a movie withoutactually seeing one.
And that's why I wanted all thisconcept art for it.
And the art is in the book,except for the e-book versions.
I actually tried putting artworkfor the e-book digital versions.

(01:03:30):
But the thing with e-books isthey're formatted in a way where
if certain devices, things won'tlook right.
And I tested it out and it justlooked really bad.
So I was like, you know what?
I would rather just not have artin the e-book version because it
just...
ruin it.
So there's a lot of like fakelogos in the story.

(01:03:51):
But and actually, for JurassicPark fans, john bell actually
did a piece of artwork forinverter verse.
There's a vehicle Yeah, becausejohn bell for Those who don't
know or remember, he was the artdirector at Jurassic Park and he
did various concept artillustrations, including for the
vehicle designs.

(01:04:11):
Like he designed the look of theFord Explorer and the Jeeps for
the Lost World as well.
He did all those vehicledesigns.
So he's a car aficionado.
So it makes sense.
And.
For Invertiverse, I asked him todesign a fictional vehicle for
me called the Rocket Lodge,which is basically a souped up

(01:04:32):
mobile home.
And I wanted it to be veryfuturistic looking and just like
really impressive and have likea vibrant design.
It's great.
He did such a great job.
work designing it.
It's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:47):
You mentioned about Stephen King and Steven
Spielberg, and it has thatelement to it very much.
I think you've really captured asense of place.
You know, it's a landscape thatI don't know at all.
And the shadows and the creatureand all of it was just really
great.
And again, what I talked aboutearlier about kind of writing
kids as well, it's reallydifficult to get their point of

(01:05:10):
view.
And I think you did that.
You've done that really well.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:13):
No, thank you.
I mean, that's That's reallygood to know.
Because I mean, you writing forkids, and I think writing for
females, I was worried.
Because later on the story,there is a female POV or
perspective.
And I'm a male and I'm like, Idon't want to write for a woman
in a way that doesn't feelgenuine.
You know what I mean?

(01:05:33):
And it's hard for me to do that.
You know, it's like, I don'tknow.
Thankfully, the few people thathave read the whole story, the
female character, theyactually...
like the best like it's theirfavorite character usually by
the end of the story especiallyso I'm like oh thank god you
know it's like more relievedthan happy in a way that I

(01:05:53):
seemingly made it work and Iloved writing for her so I think
maybe that's what showed becauseI gave her a you know, a fun
personality, I guess you couldsay, but she gets the best
dialogue.
You know, I try, I always getfor like the best dialogue every
time.
Yeah.
I'd like influences for writing.
Definitely Stephen King, butalso obviously Michael Crichton.
I'm sure you can feel theCrichton.

(01:06:14):
Yeah.
you know, inspirations oozingalready in the text.
And but I will say there are alot of dinosaur references later
on, or just a few Jurassicreferences still to come.
And I'll just spoil this becauseyou do see artwork when I begin
advertising this story.
There's a thing that I callpygmy pets, which are the small
versions of pets for people tohave of bigger animals.

(01:06:36):
For example, people have likedog sized versions of giraffes,
rhinos, bears, and you know,they never grow past a certain
size.
Which was definitely inspired byan idea from Crichton's book
that somehow never got used inany of the movies.
I don't think it's going to bein Rebirth either.
So I'm like, oh, how did theynot tap into this?

(01:06:58):
You know, in the story, they dogo in and out of different
universes.
I wanted it to be this reallykind of fun, frantic adventure
while still...
having an emotional core that Ithink people could relate to.
And that definitely comes in theform of the protagonist, David
Andrews.
It's supposed to be like anemotional journey for the
characters and they go throughgrowth.

(01:07:18):
Cause the thing is a lot ofmultiverse stories with like
marble right now.
And I even tried to make this bea point in like the product page
for selling the book, you know,where it's like, this isn't,
like a comic book superheromovie.
These are ordinary people withrelatable stuff going on in
their lives that are thrown intothis, you know, fish out of

(01:07:40):
water style adventure.
Like they're not scientists.
They're just like us, basically,you know, maybe some nerdier
than others, but that's aboutit.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:51):
But yeah, no, I think from what I've read so
far, you've got some amazing setup to a story and some really
great characters as well.
And characters, you know, arethe be all and end all of all
stories.
So yeah.
When is it released?

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:06):
It is coming out June 3rd.
which is, you know, just in timefor Jurassic June, right?
There's some dinosaur elementsin the story.
So if it's if it's, I'llprobably by the time this
episode comes out, I'll probablyalready be promoting it for pre
orders.
So you might be able to preorder it now, which you could do
so at Derek Davis media.com.

(01:08:28):
There'll be various links foryou to go to, because they'll be
available at most places booksare sold, including Amazon.
And also it could be orderedthrough local bookstores and
stuff like that.
So there's definitely a lot ofways you can get, uh, multiple
versions of this book.
It'll be available in hardcoverand also paperback.
And of course the ebook Imentioned, but again, the ebook

(01:08:51):
does not have pictures.
So,

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:53):
um, so how else can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:56):
Yeah.
And the easiest way is, uh,Derek Davis media.com.
And there are, um, There's waysto contact me.
There's also like a Facebookpage, Instagram, Twitter threads
and Blue Sky as well.
Like they're all they're all onthere.
So you can reach me in thoseways.
Also, you can reach me throughJurassic Time, the

(01:09:17):
JurassicTime.TrustCom.org.
There's various social mediaplatforms there as well.
And also I.
I sometimes do articles for alittle website called Jurassic
Outpost.
And I'm sometimes on theirpodcast as well, so you can find
me there.
So I'm kind of all over theplace right now.

(01:09:38):
So if I feel like mentally I'mall over the place, that's
probably why.
I'm

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:42):
just going to say thank you so much for joining me
today.
It has been an absolute pleasureof mine.
As being a fan of everythingthat you've done with Jurassic
Time, I don't know how manytimes I've actually listened to
John Hammond memoirs it hasaided me going to sleep many
times and lulled me on trainjourneys it is a joy to listen

(01:10:04):
to and the rick carter jurassicpark audio drama is amazing as
well i know

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:10):
yeah no thank you thank you for having me this was
this was great i hope you knowyou hope you get a nice big
following from people listeningbecause i think you're i think
you're really great at hostingthese and i'm not just saying
it's like it's it's hard to doit is hard to you know really
find a way to you know capture aperson you know in in a

(01:10:32):
conversation like this and ithink you did a great job so so
thank you for having me for surethank

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:39):
you to derrick again for that conversation and i
really hope you enjoyedeverything that we talked about
in the show notes for thisepisode you'll find all of
Derek's links.
So please go and check out hiswebsite and Invertiverse, which
actually since our conversation,I have finished and I'm a huge
fan.
I really enjoyed it.
It perfectly blends the Amblinsensibilities with Stephen King.

(01:11:03):
There's even, I think,connections to films like
Labyrinth and Neverending Story.
So yeah, please go and check outall of that.
And also, I'd just like to saythank you very much to everybody
who's rated this podcast so far.
After one episode, that isamazing.
Thank you very much.
I've got so much more plannedfor you in the future.

(01:11:23):
So please remember to subscribeto this podcast and follow me on
Instagram at roadtorebirthpod.
Next week, I'm looking at TheLost World, the novel by Michael
Crichton, and I've got twospecial guests.
So I've got my continuation ofmy conversation with James
Lovegrove, and also I've gotauthor Guy Adams, and we're

(01:11:49):
talking about his take onMichael Crichton as an author.
But for now, I'll just say thankyou very much for listening, and
goodbye.

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Jurassic Park (1993) with Derrick Davis

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