May 20, 2025 • 33 mins
What happens when everything you've meticulously planned begins to unravel? For this successful tech executive, the illusion of control was dramatically dismantled through a series of profound losses and challenges spanning five years.
The conversation opens with her early formative loss—her father's death from cancer during her teenage years—which established her pattern of seeking control as protection against future pain. For nearly two decades, this strategy seemed effective. She built an impressive career alongside her husband in the tech industry, climbing corporate ladders while maintaining the appearance of having everything figured out.
Her awakening began with her beloved dog's cancer diagnosis—an especially painful irony since she had researched extensively to ensure he came from healthy genetic stock. Despite pursuing every possible treatment, including experimental options and amputation, she confronted the humbling reality that some outcomes remain beyond our control.
As she began genuinely seeking spiritual growth, challenges multiplied rather than diminished. Her daughter received a neurodivergent diagnosis. A difficult move to Texas brought unexpected complications. Her husband lost his job after twelve years with the same company, leading to a year-long period of unemployment despite his qualifications.
The turning point came through surrender rather than strategy. Despite financial uncertainties, the family participated in a mission trip to Mexico—a decision requiring complete relinquishment of control over schedules, accommodations, and daily activities. This counterintuitive choice became transformative, fostering deeper community connections and spiritual growth.
Her husband's breakthrough illustrates the podcast's core message: after struggling to find employment for a year, his job offer came days after a spiritual moment of forgiveness rather than through more aggressive job searching techniques.
For listeners navigating their own uncontrollable circumstances, this conversation offers a powerful alternative to anxiety and micromanagement. Through authentic community, vulnerability, and spiritual surrender, we discover that true strength often emerges precisely when we stop trying to control everything.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Camila Paloni (00:00):
Welcome.
I'm glad you're here, Thank you.
Denise Jackson (00:02):
Denise, I'm glad to be here.
So you have a very responsibleposition in tech and you have
two beautiful little girls andthey are Seven and one just
turned five.
Five and seven that's what theysaid.
(00:23):
They're so cute.
I got to go to Mexico with bothof them and we had a really
good time.
We had the best time.
They are amazing and a husbandthat is pretty wonderful.
That is really learning moreand more every day about being
the priest and king of hishousehold and blessing his
family, and that's awesome.
(00:45):
But lately they've really gonethrough some hard things.
The last five years have beenreally kind of hard, and so
let's start with that.
Let's just talk about that.
I'm going to switch my chairjust in a little bit so that I'm
all in the air.
Camila Paloni (00:57):
Yeah, absolutely yeah, so the past five years
have been revealing to us.
I have grown up.
Yeah, so the past five yearshave been revealing to us.
I was Catholic but never wasreally.
It was a very lukewarmrelationship with God.
I did all the sacraments andstuff but I never actually had a
relationship with God and I'vegrown up with some hard things
(01:22):
in my life.
I lost my dad when I was ateenager.
Denise Jackson (01:26):
It was a really really rough period and you lost
him to cancer I lost him tocancer and he fought it for a
long time.
He did, he did, yes, yeah, sothat's just.
And you're an only child, I am,and so you, your mom and your
dad was your family.
That's right now yeah, yeah,tough.
Camila Paloni (01:43):
It was really really tough losing him and he
was the most loving dad a girlcould ever wish for.
But it was really hard and eventhen I didn't see it quite the
time, but God was providing.
He was providing every singlesecond, reflecting back on those
days, either through the peoplethat you know just came
(02:04):
together, came with me to helpme um fight through stuff, or it
was resources and books andstuff that I kind of searched um
.
I got a dog finally.
My whole life we've been likepreaching to my mom that we
really want a dog my dad and I.
She never allowed um.
By the time he passed she didallow me to have a dog.
And what was that dog's name?
It was phoebe, phoebe, phoebe.
Denise Jackson (02:26):
She was the sweetest little yorkshire um and
she was just what you neededwhen she was just somebody to
cry into that yeah, like apurpose, somebody to take care
of.
Camila Paloni (02:37):
Yeah, and we were really good friends and I would
take her everywhere in my purse.
It was's like walking around.
It was the most specialrelationship I had and just what
I needed at that time.
Yes, I really needed a friendand just yeah, it was great.
So she helped me through thatphase.
It got provided that, providedwith.
(02:58):
You know, just people that kindof also circled around me at
that time.
Unfortunately, she passed awaytoo young yeah and it was hard
for me as well, losing just afeeling kind of like a repeat
exactly with your daddy yeah,just somebody.
I just didn't have any controlover that.
It was really sad and reallysudden.
(03:19):
She was really young, um, butnot long after that, like my, my
at this really great man, um,who kind of walked me through
this whole journey and, uh,later became my husband.
So it was really really amazingand we had really great.
I want to say almost 15, 20years together, where things
(03:42):
were going perfectly, you know,like our careers were going
really well.
Denise Jackson (03:47):
And you're both in IT, so those are high stress
careers.
I lived that too.
Yeah, I know.
Everything's changing all thetime Exactly, you know very high
expectations.
Camila Paloni (03:57):
You know, just aiming high and we were like
traveling all around and justreally getting climbing the
ladder you know, and enjoyingyour lives enjoying it and just
really getting climbing theladder, you know, and enjoying
your lives enjoying it and justbecoming just enjoying each
other and so we had.
Denise Jackson (04:11):
Where was God in that?
Were you tell me about thatrelationship during that time?
Camila Paloni (04:17):
Yeah, it was.
It was something I mean I'vealways.
It was still lukewarm for me,right Like I.
I honestly I was again Catholic.
It was still lukewarm for me,Honestly.
I was again Catholic.
I would talk, I would pray atnight, but those prayers were
really mechanical.
It was never a relationship.
When we got married, we gotmarried in a Catholic church,
and it was a really beautifulchurch At that time I felt like
(04:43):
God was calling us Into a deeperrelationship, into a deeper
relationship, the priest, wekind of became friends with them
and there was like some younggroup at the church that we
became friends, but we, we justwe just didn't listen much.
You know, we were just, we hadour own stuff career wise, and
we were traveling for work andwe just didn't really dedicate.
(05:05):
Um got called us at that time,but I don't think we listened to
.
Denise Jackson (05:09):
The good thing is like he doesn't stop calling.
He didn't he?
Camila Paloni (05:13):
never stopped trying, he never stopped trying.
So, he kept.
He kept going I'm like, okay,you're not going to listen, but
you're going to listen soonenough.
Um and out, um.
We later moved to the us, umand uh, and again we had a
really good, really good life.
Everything was going reallywell and until more or less
covid time, when things startedto really become challenging so
(05:38):
before that, though, you decidedto have children.
Denise Jackson (05:41):
Yes, yes and so you've been on your own, just
the two of you traveling, movingup the ladder, and those IT
companies, and then y'all madethe decision to have a baby yes,
yeah, well, we first had.
Finally, I was in a good placeto have a another dog which was
a good retriever that I reallywanted to have, um, and so that
(06:03):
was the first.
Camila Paloni (06:04):
That was the first thing, um, I've always
been very like perfectionist,always have to be in control, I
always have to have a plan andthings need to go exactly as I'm
planning.
You know, I'm always going toplan for a worst case scenario
and I'm like that's what I'vedone with Oliver, this dog, and
I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonnamake sure he doesn't have any
(06:25):
genetic diseases.
You know that he comes from areally good lineage.
So I did all the research thatyou could possibly imagine, like
crazy, to make sure he wouldcome from a good place and that
he would have a normal life.
Because I hadn't had that withmy prior dog and I'm like I am
going to be, because I didn't doany of that at that time.
Denise Jackson (06:43):
So I'm like no.
Camila Paloni (06:44):
I, I thought that I'm like if I, if I did that
right now things will go my way.
Exactly, I would have adifferent outcome.
So I did what I had to do.
I did all the research.
Um had this most beautiful dog.
It was the most amazing dog andI'll come to that later.
But soon after, so three daysafter we got the dog, I found I
was pregnant my first oh wow,well, was it?
Denise Jackson (07:07):
were you trying to get pregnant or that was we
were?
Yes, we were like.
So it was a good surprise atthat moment.
Yay, I'm pregnant.
Camila Paloni (07:15):
We didn't think we were going to get pregnant
that fast.
Oh, I see it was fast.
Denise Jackson (07:19):
It was like that is correct.
Camila Paloni (07:21):
But we didn't think so.
We thought usually I guess Igotta keep trying.
But it wasn't the case.
It was really fast.
So I guess it was a little bitunsurprising that way but we, we
were ready, we were ready andwe wanted right.
Denise Jackson (07:32):
So so that's like I just want to spend a
little bit of time on thatcontrol because, like really, I
know you and you are socompetent in what you do, and
like you've done that witheverything since then that came
up.
If there was a challenge, youdo the research, you figure it
out.
We can talk about that if youwant to, later.
(07:53):
But, like if anybody couldcontrol the situation, you have
to be one of the rock stars thatcould control the situation,
and yet we can't, and we there'sonly one.
There's two sides here, right,there's satan who wants to
control us, or there's god thatgives us the choice to let him
(08:17):
step in and lead us and guide us, and he does it so gently.
Camila Paloni (08:21):
but we have those two choices, but we have to
come to in ourselves.
Denise Jackson (08:25):
We want that right.
Camila Paloni (08:26):
Yeah.
Denise Jackson (08:26):
And so you had done all that you could think of
with your dog to make sure itwas going to be perfectly Oliver
, so he would be perfectly finefor many years.
Camila Paloni (08:37):
Yeah, yeah, and it turned out it wasn't the case
.
He was only five years old whenhe was diagnosed with bone
cancer and it was devastatingbecause he was like my first
child, you know, so loving.
And the relationship with thatdog was so special, so special
(09:00):
and he was, you know.
Unfortunately, he was diagnosedand he was, you know.
Denise Jackson (09:05):
unfortunately, he was diagnosed and you went
through this whole amputatinghis shoulder down and that just
killed you just having to watchhim.
But I love the story of how,right before Sophia was born,
right, he jumped up on you andhe never did that.
But then he put his paw up andhis little face His face.
Camila Paloni (09:27):
So he never jumped on our sofa.
We were never allowed to.
He never actually tried to doit either.
But I was nine months pregnantwith both my daughters and those
were the only two times hejumped on the sofa.
We were watching TVspontaneously.
He just jumped on it, rest hisface, you know know, in my, on
my belly, and a few days afterthey were born.
Denise Jackson (09:47):
And he did that twice with both of my daughters
and exactly the same way, as if,like, he knew they were coming
yeah, so, even though, so yousaved his life and then, after
you saved his life, he was thereloving on those girls, and so
he was meant to be there alittle longer for that purpose,
right, yeah, yeah, that's reallyreally good.
Camila Paloni (10:09):
He was the most loving the most.
Yeah, he was a precious andit's.
Denise Jackson (10:14):
It's so hard when we lose anybody, um, but
you know, what I feel like isimportant for us to remember is
like we got them, we had themfor a time.
We won't.
We won't have anybody forever.
They won't have us foreverbecause we are going someplace
else and it's not a bad thing todo, but we we feel like if we
(10:38):
could just control it, we couldbe here, we can make sure that
never hurts us or it'll use usempty again.
So I mean I think that's likeI'm talking about it a lot,
because I know I went throughwanting to control everything
and found out I had no control.
And you have gone through thatand we're both strong, pretty
(11:01):
sufficient women and I wantother women to hear that because
it's something that we all feellike we need to do because of
the world we grew up in.
We don't want to be weak, wedon't want to let our guard down
, and really I think in theworld we don't need to.
(11:23):
But if we trust God with ourlives, we have a sure foundation
and that's really what we'rehoping for is the sure
foundation that, no matter whatwe go through, he'll stay by us
and he will comfort us and hewill give us the love that that
animal gave you, that your dadgave you, that my brother
(11:45):
brother gave me.
That we lost for a time, but he, he pours that love back into
us and stands us up again.
Camila Paloni (11:53):
Yeah yeah, and there's so much lessons through
all of that, like you'rementioning, we wouldn't have
experienced his love and his joy, you know, and the girls loved
him and the girls loved him and,like, I think one of the most
vivid memories I have was likethe day he came back from the
surgery he amputated this wholelike shoulder.
He had nothing in his frontlike front leg, there was
(12:15):
nothing else.
It was the most heartbreakingthing for me to see.
It was really, really hard, butfor him, like the first time
that we took him out to go potty, you know, and he realized he
didn't have his front limbanymore, he was just, you know,
he was joyful, he was stillhappy, he was still like
(12:36):
wandering around.
Denise Jackson (12:37):
He was in that father right Exactly.
Camila Paloni (12:39):
And kind of with what he had.
He was just being joyful andthat was such a great lesson for
me.
I'm like, oh my goodness, lookat you.
I'm suffering so much becauseof you.
And you were the one who has,you know, now is completely
amputated, and you were justlike acting as if nothing had
happened.
Denise Jackson (12:57):
And choosing that joy, choosing the joy,
choosing life, while he had itExactly, choosing what you have
with what you have yes Rightwhat you have with what you have
?
Camila Paloni (13:05):
yes, right at that time.
Denise Jackson (13:06):
So, he taught you like a lot of good things.
God gave him a little time toteach you those things he did
and then he did die.
Um, not too too long after that.
He this cancer came back afteryou'd done everything you could
oh my gosh, everything.
You had him in an experimentaltreatment.
You, you did everything.
There wasn't anything else youcould have done.
(13:27):
It was nothing.
Camila Paloni (13:28):
I mean, that's the one thing.
I'm like there's nothing Icould have done.
But it was always me trying toget control right.
I go with the situation.
I'm gonna try everything tosave this dog.
Yeah, the world to me.
So yeah, we took him to thisexperiment like us uc davis just
trying to really get it all theall the new stuff and develop
the vaccine out of his owncancer.
(13:48):
It was just like crazy stuff.
Um, he was fine until suddenlyit was just very sudden he
wasn't anymore.
Denise Jackson (13:57):
Um, and it was really tough, it was really
tough and that was just one ofthe all that was like yeah, then
then, uh, so you, you bothworked for the same company and
it's a large company that hadhuge layoffs not too long after
the COVID stuff, which everyplace, every company around the
(14:19):
world faced the same thing, andyou didn't get laid off either
one of you during that.
But then a few months ago theyhad another layoff and Gustavo
got laid off.
That's right, and that had tobe hard on him.
We know it was hard on him andreally hard on you, because here
(14:43):
are the girls that I mean.
You said at one point like it'dbe so nice for me to be able to
be with these girls but you youhave a job and and that's the
only job of the family now for awhile and gustavo was applying
everywhere and no doors wereopening up so it was a place of
(15:03):
you couldn't control it no andso how did that feel sorry to
make you on the spot because Iknow it wasn't easy.
Camila Paloni (15:12):
It was, um, I'm gonna take the liberty to go a
little bit.
Yeah, prior to that.
So, um, it was a year where wefinally moved to texas.
So we, so we were back incalifornia and, like I said,
five years it was not like thisis just happening.
It was like almost like it wasescalating.
It was interesting because itwas a time where I decided to
(15:33):
get closer to God and decided toread the Bible more, listening
to Christian music and juststarting to get more in depth
with his word, his word, um.
But he was also a time he waslike okay, now I I'm gonna show
you who I am and that I am incontrol, and not you, and that's
(15:53):
not good for you, right?
So he started to really justshow me, yeah, stuff, right,
like, and it was hard, it washard to be where we were.
Things started happening aroundus, with us.
We just really needed to leave,um.
So we decided we wanted to comehere, but there was no, no open
doors to come here so it tookus a while when we finally made
(16:15):
the move it was also really hard, because nothing about the move
was easy.
everybody that could dosomething to make it harder,
they took advantage of us.
It was a really hard move too,so it was not like oh, once all
of that was done, then it's alllike great.
It was really hard, even beinghere.
We also at the same time had areally, really stressful
(16:36):
situation environment at work.
My daughter was also diagnosedas a newer divergent.
Um so situation.
I was like I don't know what todo, lord, I don't.
I was so stressed out and I wasso, um, just, I just didn't
have any.
I didn't know what to do.
Denise Jackson (16:55):
Right, like with all and you've always known
like well, I could do this, andI could do this, and I could do
this and I could do this, butnone of that at that time I'm
like, no like.
Camila Paloni (17:04):
How is this nothing according to plan yes,
plan any of this.
Denise Jackson (17:08):
What do I do now ?
Camila Paloni (17:09):
and I don't, I don't know.
It was very overwhelming.
I had to take some time offfrom work because I just really
was not in a good place at thetime.
It was really hard for me and Ijust at that time things
started to change for me and Iwas just like trying to talk to
God and trying to listen to himand just God, what do you want
me to do?
I really feel like I need to becloser to my daughter and help
(17:30):
her more.
Work was always very intense.
It was always really hard, butI was asking him and I didn't
hear anything back, or I didn'tat at least I didn't.
I, I didn't think I did.
Maybe it was speaking to me,but I at the time was more like
okay, lord you're, I don't knowwhat to do, so I'm just going to
(17:51):
take, take up my cross and justkeep following you.
Denise Jackson (17:54):
That's what I'm going to do, that's what I'm,
that's probably what he wastelling me, and that's you.
Your choosing.
You're choosing to continue tofollow.
Camila Paloni (18:02):
Exactly.
Denise Jackson (18:02):
Even though there are no answers.
Camila Paloni (18:04):
No answer.
I don't know what to do, butI'm going to trust you, lord,
and I'm going to keep doing whatyou're doing.
I'm going to go back to my workand I'm going to try to do my
best for my daughter.
It's really really hard but,I'm going to do it.
Denise Jackson (18:23):
And four months later that's when my husband
lost his job, oh my goodness so.
And you know we have an enemythat wants to kill, steal and
destroy us.
So here you are seeking thelord.
Your enemy doesn't want youseeking the lord, and so he's
throwing every single thing thathe can, I think at you guys and
um, but god was there.
He was still there, he's stillpresent, waiting for you to
(18:46):
choose the next step, the nextstep.
And you chose.
You kept choosing, even afterhe, after gustavo, lost his job.
Um, you were choosing becauseyou know we're talking a little
bit even then, and you were justsaying I know god's got a plan,
I know god's got a plan and hedid have a plan it wasn't in our
(19:06):
time, he was not holy moly,because I started praying with
you and I was like okay, lord,today they need to have me today
.
That's how it happened.
Camila Paloni (19:15):
Yeah, because um that was hard because he again
like the whole, like austinoffice route got laid off, so it
wasn't.
Denise Jackson (19:23):
It wasn't nothing to my husband's you know
, but it was the whole.
Thing.
But obviously that affectssomeone's ego and all of that
especially, he had been in thiscompany for 12 years.
Camila Paloni (19:34):
So it was just and it was really hard to find
another job.
You know like it was highprofile jobs, which was just
really hard.
Denise Jackson (19:48):
It was a year plus.
A year plus with him doingeverything that he could have
done and to get it and learningnew skills.
I really loved that part ofwhat he was doing because, like
he wasn't even sitting theresaying, oh I have to be in my
doing what I've done before.
He was learning how to program.
He was thinking about new ideas, he was thinking about
everything, yeah.
But then we went on thismission trip to mexico.
Well, y'all were already inthis community group.
(20:09):
Was he going to the communitygroup?
Camila Paloni (20:11):
we as a family, both of us as a family.
Denise Jackson (20:13):
So already he was starting to really seek god
too.
He was at a place where hecouldn't control it.
He couldn't control it.
Camila Paloni (20:21):
He, he heard about the mission and he was
like telling me you know, kimmy,I think I should really go to
this.
So he was hearing God and.
I was like, are you kidding me?
Like at that time, well, Idon't know, almost a year
without a job, yeah and I we'vegot our savings and all, but we
(20:42):
didn't want to mess with any ofthat.
Right so like now we're spendingall this money in this mission
trip, plus everything we'respending like no, are you out of
your mind?
And it was again another timethat I had to just kind of stop
and listen.
And you know, I had all theseconcerns.
Stop and listen, I had allthese concerns.
(21:02):
My girls.
Yeah, you're going into aforeign country?
Yeah, and I didn't knowanything about the schedule,
about the food?
Denise Jackson (21:07):
Oh yeah, because it was very loose.
Very loose Because we weretrusting the church there to
lead us and we were all finewith that once we got there, but
it was a little.
Camila Paloni (21:16):
That was my first mission trip too, so I was like
I had no idea what to expect,and with my kids especially,
with small kids yes, it's hard.
But there's like all these youknow like things need to be a
certain way with my oldest andit's just hard like how am I
gonna control?
Denise Jackson (21:32):
the situation and, yeah, how do I know nothing
?
How do I know?
Camila Paloni (21:35):
nothing about what we're gonna do.
What we're gonna eat when we'regonna eat when we're gonna
sleep, we're gonna be workingthe whole time like, are you
nuts?
This was a time when I was justlike praying a lot to god and
god, what do you want me to do?
And he was just like go, justgo, just trust, just let go of
control.
Once in your life, you know,I've been teaching you these
past five years.
(21:56):
You know like listen, you canjust let it go yeah, and I'm
like, oh hey, lord, I'll let itgo, I'll just see what you have
for me.
And, oh my goodness, it was oneof the best experiences of my
life.
Denise Jackson (22:08):
It was good for me too, but I got to see a
strong man who had gone througha lot be willing to get up there
(22:30):
and talk about what God wasdoing in his life and owning
that.
You know, I thought I could bein control of everything.
You two together were a goodcouple.
You are a good couple, but bothof you have learned to let go
and let God.
And your oldest was sick whenwe got there.
(22:52):
She got sick.
And that was horrible becausethe first day you were like I'm
going, I want to go, but I can'tgo because she's ready to fever
and I don't even know what'sgoing on.
That's the first time we reallyspent time by ourselves.
Talking was when I went up tosee you that day.
Camila Paloni (23:08):
That's right, right before we left, and I'm so
thankful, that's right that wegot to be friends.
It was so good, even though shewas sick, even though it was
hard, it was hard.
Denise Jackson (23:23):
It was harder with all these things, yes, but
even looking back for sophia, Ifeel like that was like good,
because she got thatpeacefulness and quiet with her
mom and then when she did come,she was ready to be there.
She wanted to get there.
You know, it's like it was goodshe wanted to help yes, she
just was great.
I mean she had, she seemed likeshe didn't have any challenges
(23:44):
To me just looking from theoutside.
She was just so happy andtalking and visiting.
So it was really really goodfor both of them too.
It was really great yeah yeah,and your youngest is like.
She's like a whirlwind, so be asquatter that you've got the
(24:06):
one that's gonna just bring thestorm and bring the smiles.
She would go around givingsmiles to everybody, yeah she
was just loving on everyone.
Camila Paloni (24:15):
It was really really good.
Yeah, so I think it was.
It was so amazing like we gotto know people like you.
All that great things.
Denise Jackson (24:23):
We left feeling like family and that was amazing
.
Camila Paloni (24:26):
Yeah, yeah, and we made a difference, right, and
we made a difference.
Denise Jackson (24:29):
We made a lot of differences.
Camila Paloni (24:31):
It was really fun , it was amazing.
It was, so it was again like wewere really thankful.
You know it was a tough year.
Denise Jackson (24:40):
We were really well, it's not even it wasn't
over.
So we came back from that tripand um, gustavo didn't get a job
still for a while, um, and youwere going through some things
too physically, just um, dealingwith some health stuff, um.
But then so exciting, he gothis job and it's a great job.
(25:07):
And it's so funny because whenhe got the job, wasn't it like
it was gonna?
You were like wait what?
You have to leave town for allthese weeks for training, what's
gonna happen?
Your in-laws ended up coming inand helping to take care of
things.
Camila Paloni (25:21):
And so everything just that's it.
Denise Jackson (25:24):
It just all fell into place, which, again, you
know.
I look back and I see that inmy life too, like I stressed
about it, I tried to controleverything and make sure it
would all work.
It did not work the way Iexpected it to, but everything
worked, because he doesn't leaveus.
Camila Paloni (25:42):
yeah, no, he doesn't and it's and it's
amazing also like you should getand talk to to guto and that's
his testimony to give, but oneof the things that was really
amazing that he says there was aforgiveness component to the
whole thing.
He had like this grudge, youknow, onto him for everything
(26:03):
that had happened, the momentwhere he asked God to help him
to forgive, and when he feltlike he did, he felt like this
weight coming off of hisshoulders and like a few days
later he got the job.
Yeah, praise God, and he gotthe job with three other men,
with two other men in ourcommunity group who had been
(26:24):
looking for a job.
I don't know if you heard thatI did not hear that.
Denise Jackson (26:27):
Who was?
Camila Paloni (26:28):
that uh, pastor jose even talked about it.
Denise Jackson (26:31):
Oh, I missed that day.
I guess he did that's awesomehe was one of three men.
Camila Paloni (26:35):
Uh, he's a season for all the three men in our
community group.
That's awesome.
The whole year they've beenlooking for and answer, you know
from a job perspective, and allof them within a matter of days
.
Oh wow, that's awesome.
It was amazing to witness.
Denise Jackson (26:51):
You know, and I love that, Gustavo, and the men
at our church.
They have this strong communityand men, just like we do, we
need friendships.
We need other women in ourlives that we can count on, that
trust the Lord with our livesand stand with us when we go
(27:15):
through things.
But men, it's so hard for themand in our church I just love
that.
Our men feel the connection toother men that love the lord
that's.
Camila Paloni (27:26):
That's such a blessing it is.
Denise Jackson (27:28):
It is okay.
Well, we're gonna wrap thisconversation up, but I bet we'll
have more conversations downthe road, and we are still
praying for camilla with herhealth issues.
I'm asking you guys to join us,because we're two or more.
Agree is touching.
We have what we say, and that'sGod's word, not my word.
But, camila, do you have anyone little piece of advice that
(27:49):
you'd like to give to thesewomen?
Camila Paloni (27:52):
to just keep a little tidbit of wisdom, yeah, I
think is just trust, trustpeople and find people around
you.
Find people that you can trust,women that you can trust,
because none of us have itfigured out, none of us.
We're all going through stuffright.
(28:13):
So find people that you trust,either through your church, I
don't know through communitygroups, through or friendships.
Denise Jackson (28:20):
I mean God can bring you close friendships
exactly you know but a lot oftimes churches is a that's a
great place, exactly because atleast you're grounded on that on
the same principles on the samevalues right like so it's.
Camila Paloni (28:34):
It's been amazing like we've moved to texas not
not long ago, to be honest andwe are surrounded by people who
share our faith, who share ourvalues, and that's been mostly
through church so yeah, findyour people, find your community
, trusting each other.
Be open and vulnerable.
I think that's been one of themost important things for me and
(28:55):
the biggest piece of advice forme get in the word trust the
the Lord.
Just, I know it's hard, uh, andfor me, I'm a control freak and
I'm a control freak in recovery.
I am trying not to be um and Godhas been teaching me, um, that
I don't always have to havecontrol over things and I have
to replace that perfectionismthat's been such a foundation in
(29:16):
my life for so long.
I have to replace him by by G.
I have through through jesus,right, I have to just put him in
the foundation of my life andjust trust him, just talk to him
, have that really closerelationship with him.
He wants to hear you, he wantsto hear your struggles.
Right, he does not have to bethat formal kind of a kind of a
thing like he.
(29:36):
He wants to be your friend andhe, he wants to be there for you
and I think that's been such alife-changing experience for me
once.
I decided that and I, like Lord,I just need your help.
I want to have thatrelationship with you.
Help me learn how to, becausesometimes it's also really hard.
How do I have that relationship?
It's hard, it's also by, butit's worth.
(29:59):
Yeah, worth it to keep.
It's worth it.
It's worth it Also by talkingto people who have been maybe
further along in your faithjourney.
I think that's been also superhelpful for me.
People like you, denise, andgot all their other friends who
are just further along in theirjourney, in their faith journey,
who have helped me withquestions and know and doubts
(30:21):
and scripture when I didn't haveany or just I don't know.
It's just been just superhelpful having having friends
around it.
Denise Jackson (30:29):
It does, you know.
It tells us that we need thebody if, if, that were part of
each other and, um, we need that.
We need that for our defense inthe earth while we're walking
through it.
But one thing I just want totell you to end this is that
abba father created you strongand independent and capable
(30:50):
because you're a warrior womanyou are mighty, but we do have
to be willing to.
Uh, let him choose him.
And then we come into fullnessof that strength.
It's not like he he's neverreally taken.
He's made me stronger.
The more I submit to the word.
He strengthens me more and moreand I get stronger.
(31:13):
I'm much stronger now than Iwas when I was a 16 year old kid
.
You know, uh, by leaps andbounds, and I expect my later
days will be greater.
Welcome.
I'm glad you're here, Thank you.
Denise Jackson (00:02):
Denise, I'm glad to be here.
So you have a very responsibleposition in tech and you have
two beautiful little girls andthey are Seven and one just
turned five.
Five and seven that's what theysaid.
(00:23):
They're so cute.
I got to go to Mexico with bothof them and we had a really
good time.
We had the best time.
They are amazing and a husbandthat is pretty wonderful.
That is really learning moreand more every day about being
the priest and king of hishousehold and blessing his
family, and that's awesome.
(00:45):
But lately they've really gonethrough some hard things.
The last five years have beenreally kind of hard, and so
let's start with that.
Let's just talk about that.
I'm going to switch my chairjust in a little bit so that I'm
all in the air.
Camila Paloni (00:57):
Yeah, absolutely yeah, so the past five years
have been revealing to us.
I have grown up.
Yeah, so the past five yearshave been revealing to us.
I was Catholic but never wasreally.
It was a very lukewarmrelationship with God.
I did all the sacraments andstuff but I never actually had a
relationship with God and I'vegrown up with some hard things
(01:22):
in my life.
I lost my dad when I was ateenager.
Denise Jackson (01:26):
It was a really really rough period and you lost
him to cancer I lost him tocancer and he fought it for a
long time.
He did, he did, yes, yeah, sothat's just.
And you're an only child, I am,and so you, your mom and your
dad was your family.
That's right now yeah, yeah,tough.
Camila Paloni (01:43):
It was really really tough losing him and he
was the most loving dad a girlcould ever wish for.
But it was really hard and eventhen I didn't see it quite the
time, but God was providing.
He was providing every singlesecond, reflecting back on those
days, either through the peoplethat you know just came
(02:04):
together, came with me to helpme um fight through stuff, or it
was resources and books andstuff that I kind of searched um
.
I got a dog finally.
My whole life we've been likepreaching to my mom that we
really want a dog my dad and I.
She never allowed um.
By the time he passed she didallow me to have a dog.
And what was that dog's name?
It was phoebe, phoebe, phoebe.
Denise Jackson (02:26):
She was the sweetest little yorkshire um and
she was just what you neededwhen she was just somebody to
cry into that yeah, like apurpose, somebody to take care
of.
Camila Paloni (02:37):
Yeah, and we were really good friends and I would
take her everywhere in my purse.
It was's like walking around.
It was the most specialrelationship I had and just what
I needed at that time.
Yes, I really needed a friendand just yeah, it was great.
So she helped me through thatphase.
It got provided that, providedwith.
(02:58):
You know, just people that kindof also circled around me at
that time.
Unfortunately, she passed awaytoo young yeah and it was hard
for me as well, losing just afeeling kind of like a repeat
exactly with your daddy yeah,just somebody.
I just didn't have any controlover that.
It was really sad and reallysudden.
(03:19):
She was really young, um, butnot long after that, like my, my
at this really great man, um,who kind of walked me through
this whole journey and, uh,later became my husband.
So it was really really amazingand we had really great.
I want to say almost 15, 20years together, where things
(03:42):
were going perfectly, you know,like our careers were going
really well.
Denise Jackson (03:47):
And you're both in IT, so those are high stress
careers.
I lived that too.
Yeah, I know.
Everything's changing all thetime Exactly, you know very high
expectations.
Camila Paloni (03:57):
You know, just aiming high and we were like
traveling all around and justreally getting climbing the
ladder you know, and enjoyingyour lives enjoying it and just
really getting climbing theladder, you know, and enjoying
your lives enjoying it and justbecoming just enjoying each
other and so we had.
Denise Jackson (04:11):
Where was God in that?
Were you tell me about thatrelationship during that time?
Camila Paloni (04:17):
Yeah, it was.
It was something I mean I'vealways.
It was still lukewarm for me,right Like I.
I honestly I was again Catholic.
It was still lukewarm for me,Honestly.
I was again Catholic.
I would talk, I would pray atnight, but those prayers were
really mechanical.
It was never a relationship.
When we got married, we gotmarried in a Catholic church,
and it was a really beautifulchurch At that time I felt like
(04:43):
God was calling us Into a deeperrelationship, into a deeper
relationship, the priest, wekind of became friends with them
and there was like some younggroup at the church that we
became friends, but we, we justwe just didn't listen much.
You know, we were just, we hadour own stuff career wise, and
we were traveling for work andwe just didn't really dedicate.
(05:05):
Um got called us at that time,but I don't think we listened to
.
Denise Jackson (05:09):
The good thing is like he doesn't stop calling.
He didn't he?
Camila Paloni (05:13):
never stopped trying, he never stopped trying.
So, he kept.
He kept going I'm like, okay,you're not going to listen, but
you're going to listen soonenough.
Um and out, um.
We later moved to the us, umand uh, and again we had a
really good, really good life.
Everything was going reallywell and until more or less
covid time, when things startedto really become challenging so
(05:38):
before that, though, you decidedto have children.
Denise Jackson (05:41):
Yes, yes and so you've been on your own, just
the two of you traveling, movingup the ladder, and those IT
companies, and then y'all madethe decision to have a baby yes,
yeah, well, we first had.
Finally, I was in a good placeto have a another dog which was
a good retriever that I reallywanted to have, um, and so that
(06:03):
was the first.
Camila Paloni (06:04):
That was the first thing, um, I've always
been very like perfectionist,always have to be in control, I
always have to have a plan andthings need to go exactly as I'm
planning.
You know, I'm always going toplan for a worst case scenario
and I'm like that's what I'vedone with Oliver, this dog, and
I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonnamake sure he doesn't have any
(06:25):
genetic diseases.
You know that he comes from areally good lineage.
So I did all the research thatyou could possibly imagine, like
crazy, to make sure he wouldcome from a good place and that
he would have a normal life.
Because I hadn't had that withmy prior dog and I'm like I am
going to be, because I didn't doany of that at that time.
Denise Jackson (06:43):
So I'm like no.
Camila Paloni (06:44):
I, I thought that I'm like if I, if I did that
right now things will go my way.
Exactly, I would have adifferent outcome.
So I did what I had to do.
I did all the research.
Um had this most beautiful dog.
It was the most amazing dog andI'll come to that later.
But soon after, so three daysafter we got the dog, I found I
was pregnant my first oh wow,well, was it?
Denise Jackson (07:07):
were you trying to get pregnant or that was we
were?
Yes, we were like.
So it was a good surprise atthat moment.
Yay, I'm pregnant.
Camila Paloni (07:15):
We didn't think we were going to get pregnant
that fast.
Oh, I see it was fast.
Denise Jackson (07:19):
It was like that is correct.
Camila Paloni (07:21):
But we didn't think so.
We thought usually I guess Igotta keep trying.
But it wasn't the case.
It was really fast.
So I guess it was a little bitunsurprising that way but we, we
were ready, we were ready andwe wanted right.
Denise Jackson (07:32):
So so that's like I just want to spend a
little bit of time on thatcontrol because, like really, I
know you and you are socompetent in what you do, and
like you've done that witheverything since then that came
up.
If there was a challenge, youdo the research, you figure it
out.
We can talk about that if youwant to, later.
(07:53):
But, like if anybody couldcontrol the situation, you have
to be one of the rock stars thatcould control the situation,
and yet we can't, and we there'sonly one.
There's two sides here, right,there's satan who wants to
control us, or there's god thatgives us the choice to let him
(08:17):
step in and lead us and guide us, and he does it so gently.
Camila Paloni (08:21):
but we have those two choices, but we have to
come to in ourselves.
Denise Jackson (08:25):
We want that right.
Camila Paloni (08:26):
Yeah.
Denise Jackson (08:26):
And so you had done all that you could think of
with your dog to make sure itwas going to be perfectly Oliver
, so he would be perfectly finefor many years.
Camila Paloni (08:37):
Yeah, yeah, and it turned out it wasn't the case
.
He was only five years old whenhe was diagnosed with bone
cancer and it was devastatingbecause he was like my first
child, you know, so loving.
And the relationship with thatdog was so special, so special
(09:00):
and he was, you know.
Unfortunately, he was diagnosedand he was, you know.
Denise Jackson (09:05):
unfortunately, he was diagnosed and you went
through this whole amputatinghis shoulder down and that just
killed you just having to watchhim.
But I love the story of how,right before Sophia was born,
right, he jumped up on you andhe never did that.
But then he put his paw up andhis little face His face.
Camila Paloni (09:27):
So he never jumped on our sofa.
We were never allowed to.
He never actually tried to doit either.
But I was nine months pregnantwith both my daughters and those
were the only two times hejumped on the sofa.
We were watching TVspontaneously.
He just jumped on it, rest hisface, you know know, in my, on
my belly, and a few days afterthey were born.
Denise Jackson (09:47):
And he did that twice with both of my daughters
and exactly the same way, as if,like, he knew they were coming
yeah, so, even though, so yousaved his life and then, after
you saved his life, he was thereloving on those girls, and so
he was meant to be there alittle longer for that purpose,
right, yeah, yeah, that's reallyreally good.
Camila Paloni (10:09):
He was the most loving the most.
Yeah, he was a precious andit's.
Denise Jackson (10:14):
It's so hard when we lose anybody, um, but
you know, what I feel like isimportant for us to remember is
like we got them, we had themfor a time.
We won't.
We won't have anybody forever.
They won't have us foreverbecause we are going someplace
else and it's not a bad thing todo, but we we feel like if we
(10:38):
could just control it, we couldbe here, we can make sure that
never hurts us or it'll use usempty again.
So I mean I think that's likeI'm talking about it a lot,
because I know I went throughwanting to control everything
and found out I had no control.
And you have gone through thatand we're both strong, pretty
(11:01):
sufficient women and I wantother women to hear that because
it's something that we all feellike we need to do because of
the world we grew up in.
We don't want to be weak, wedon't want to let our guard down
, and really I think in theworld we don't need to.
(11:23):
But if we trust God with ourlives, we have a sure foundation
and that's really what we'rehoping for is the sure
foundation that, no matter whatwe go through, he'll stay by us
and he will comfort us and hewill give us the love that that
animal gave you, that your dadgave you, that my brother
(11:45):
brother gave me.
That we lost for a time, but he, he pours that love back into
us and stands us up again.
Camila Paloni (11:53):
Yeah yeah, and there's so much lessons through
all of that, like you'rementioning, we wouldn't have
experienced his love and his joy, you know, and the girls loved
him and the girls loved him and,like, I think one of the most
vivid memories I have was likethe day he came back from the
surgery he amputated this wholelike shoulder.
He had nothing in his frontlike front leg, there was
(12:15):
nothing else.
It was the most heartbreakingthing for me to see.
It was really, really hard, butfor him, like the first time
that we took him out to go potty, you know, and he realized he
didn't have his front limbanymore, he was just, you know,
he was joyful, he was stillhappy, he was still like
(12:36):
wandering around.
Denise Jackson (12:37):
He was in that father right Exactly.
Camila Paloni (12:39):
And kind of with what he had.
He was just being joyful andthat was such a great lesson for
me.
I'm like, oh my goodness, lookat you.
I'm suffering so much becauseof you.
And you were the one who has,you know, now is completely
amputated, and you were justlike acting as if nothing had
happened.
Denise Jackson (12:57):
And choosing that joy, choosing the joy,
choosing life, while he had itExactly, choosing what you have
with what you have yes Rightwhat you have with what you have
?
Camila Paloni (13:05):
yes, right at that time.
Denise Jackson (13:06):
So, he taught you like a lot of good things.
God gave him a little time toteach you those things he did
and then he did die.
Um, not too too long after that.
He this cancer came back afteryou'd done everything you could
oh my gosh, everything.
You had him in an experimentaltreatment.
You, you did everything.
There wasn't anything else youcould have done.
(13:27):
It was nothing.
Camila Paloni (13:28):
I mean, that's the one thing.
I'm like there's nothing Icould have done.
But it was always me trying toget control right.
I go with the situation.
I'm gonna try everything tosave this dog.
Yeah, the world to me.
So yeah, we took him to thisexperiment like us uc davis just
trying to really get it all theall the new stuff and develop
the vaccine out of his owncancer.
(13:48):
It was just like crazy stuff.
Um, he was fine until suddenlyit was just very sudden he
wasn't anymore.
Denise Jackson (13:57):
Um, and it was really tough, it was really
tough and that was just one ofthe all that was like yeah, then
then, uh, so you, you bothworked for the same company and
it's a large company that hadhuge layoffs not too long after
the COVID stuff, which everyplace, every company around the
(14:19):
world faced the same thing, andyou didn't get laid off either
one of you during that.
But then a few months ago theyhad another layoff and Gustavo
got laid off.
That's right, and that had tobe hard on him.
We know it was hard on him andreally hard on you, because here
(14:43):
are the girls that I mean.
You said at one point like it'dbe so nice for me to be able to
be with these girls but you youhave a job and and that's the
only job of the family now for awhile and gustavo was applying
everywhere and no doors wereopening up so it was a place of
(15:03):
you couldn't control it no andso how did that feel sorry to
make you on the spot because Iknow it wasn't easy.
Camila Paloni (15:12):
It was, um, I'm gonna take the liberty to go a
little bit.
Yeah, prior to that.
So, um, it was a year where wefinally moved to texas.
So we, so we were back incalifornia and, like I said,
five years it was not like thisis just happening.
It was like almost like it wasescalating.
It was interesting because itwas a time where I decided to
(15:33):
get closer to God and decided toread the Bible more, listening
to Christian music and juststarting to get more in depth
with his word, his word, um.
But he was also a time he waslike okay, now I I'm gonna show
you who I am and that I am incontrol, and not you, and that's
(15:53):
not good for you, right?
So he started to really justshow me, yeah, stuff, right,
like, and it was hard, it washard to be where we were.
Things started happening aroundus, with us.
We just really needed to leave,um.
So we decided we wanted to comehere, but there was no, no open
doors to come here so it tookus a while when we finally made
(16:15):
the move it was also really hard, because nothing about the move
was easy.
everybody that could dosomething to make it harder,
they took advantage of us.
It was a really hard move too,so it was not like oh, once all
of that was done, then it's alllike great.
It was really hard, even beinghere.
We also at the same time had areally, really stressful
(16:36):
situation environment at work.
My daughter was also diagnosedas a newer divergent.
Um so situation.
I was like I don't know what todo, lord, I don't.
I was so stressed out and I wasso, um, just, I just didn't
have any.
I didn't know what to do.
Denise Jackson (16:55):
Right, like with all and you've always known
like well, I could do this, andI could do this, and I could do
this and I could do this, butnone of that at that time I'm
like, no like.
Camila Paloni (17:04):
How is this nothing according to plan yes,
plan any of this.
Denise Jackson (17:08):
What do I do now ?
Camila Paloni (17:09):
and I don't, I don't know.
It was very overwhelming.
I had to take some time offfrom work because I just really
was not in a good place at thetime.
It was really hard for me and Ijust at that time things
started to change for me and Iwas just like trying to talk to
God and trying to listen to himand just God, what do you want
me to do?
I really feel like I need to becloser to my daughter and help
(17:30):
her more.
Work was always very intense.
It was always really hard, butI was asking him and I didn't
hear anything back, or I didn'tat at least I didn't.
I, I didn't think I did.
Maybe it was speaking to me,but I at the time was more like
okay, lord you're, I don't knowwhat to do, so I'm just going to
(17:51):
take, take up my cross and justkeep following you.
Denise Jackson (17:54):
That's what I'm going to do, that's what I'm,
that's probably what he wastelling me, and that's you.
Your choosing.
You're choosing to continue tofollow.
Camila Paloni (18:02):
Exactly.
Denise Jackson (18:02):
Even though there are no answers.
Camila Paloni (18:04):
No answer.
I don't know what to do, butI'm going to trust you, lord,
and I'm going to keep doing whatyou're doing.
I'm going to go back to my workand I'm going to try to do my
best for my daughter.
It's really really hard but,I'm going to do it.
Denise Jackson (18:23):
And four months later that's when my husband
lost his job, oh my goodness so.
And you know we have an enemythat wants to kill, steal and
destroy us.
So here you are seeking thelord.
Your enemy doesn't want youseeking the lord, and so he's
throwing every single thing thathe can, I think at you guys and
um, but god was there.
He was still there, he's stillpresent, waiting for you to
(18:46):
choose the next step, the nextstep.
And you chose.
You kept choosing, even afterhe, after gustavo, lost his job.
Um, you were choosing becauseyou know we're talking a little
bit even then, and you were justsaying I know god's got a plan,
I know god's got a plan and hedid have a plan it wasn't in our
(19:06):
time, he was not holy moly,because I started praying with
you and I was like okay, lord,today they need to have me today
.
That's how it happened.
Camila Paloni (19:15):
Yeah, because um that was hard because he again
like the whole, like austinoffice route got laid off, so it
wasn't.
Denise Jackson (19:23):
It wasn't nothing to my husband's you know
, but it was the whole.
Thing.
But obviously that affectssomeone's ego and all of that
especially, he had been in thiscompany for 12 years.
Camila Paloni (19:34):
So it was just and it was really hard to find
another job.
You know like it was highprofile jobs, which was just
really hard.
Denise Jackson (19:48):
It was a year plus.
A year plus with him doingeverything that he could have
done and to get it and learningnew skills.
I really loved that part ofwhat he was doing because, like
he wasn't even sitting theresaying, oh I have to be in my
doing what I've done before.
He was learning how to program.
He was thinking about new ideas, he was thinking about
everything, yeah.
But then we went on thismission trip to mexico.
Well, y'all were already inthis community group.
(20:09):
Was he going to the communitygroup?
Camila Paloni (20:11):
we as a family, both of us as a family.
Denise Jackson (20:13):
So already he was starting to really seek god
too.
He was at a place where hecouldn't control it.
He couldn't control it.
Camila Paloni (20:21):
He, he heard about the mission and he was
like telling me you know, kimmy,I think I should really go to
this.
So he was hearing God and.
I was like, are you kidding me?
Like at that time, well, Idon't know, almost a year
without a job, yeah and I we'vegot our savings and all, but we
(20:42):
didn't want to mess with any ofthat.
Right so like now we're spendingall this money in this mission
trip, plus everything we'respending like no, are you out of
your mind?
And it was again another timethat I had to just kind of stop
and listen.
And you know, I had all theseconcerns.
Stop and listen, I had allthese concerns.
(21:02):
My girls.
Yeah, you're going into aforeign country?
Yeah, and I didn't knowanything about the schedule,
about the food?
Denise Jackson (21:07):
Oh yeah, because it was very loose.
Very loose Because we weretrusting the church there to
lead us and we were all finewith that once we got there, but
it was a little.
Camila Paloni (21:16):
That was my first mission trip too, so I was like
I had no idea what to expect,and with my kids especially,
with small kids yes, it's hard.
But there's like all these youknow like things need to be a
certain way with my oldest andit's just hard like how am I
gonna control?
Denise Jackson (21:32):
the situation and, yeah, how do I know nothing
?
How do I know?
Camila Paloni (21:35):
nothing about what we're gonna do.
What we're gonna eat when we'regonna eat when we're gonna
sleep, we're gonna be workingthe whole time like, are you
nuts?
This was a time when I was justlike praying a lot to god and
god, what do you want me to do?
And he was just like go, justgo, just trust, just let go of
control.
Once in your life, you know,I've been teaching you these
past five years.
(21:56):
You know like listen, you canjust let it go yeah, and I'm
like, oh hey, lord, I'll let itgo, I'll just see what you have
for me.
And, oh my goodness, it was oneof the best experiences of my
life.
Denise Jackson (22:08):
It was good for me too, but I got to see a
strong man who had gone througha lot be willing to get up there
(22:30):
and talk about what God wasdoing in his life and owning
that.
You know, I thought I could bein control of everything.
You two together were a goodcouple.
You are a good couple, but bothof you have learned to let go
and let God.
And your oldest was sick whenwe got there.
(22:52):
She got sick.
And that was horrible becausethe first day you were like I'm
going, I want to go, but I can'tgo because she's ready to fever
and I don't even know what'sgoing on.
That's the first time we reallyspent time by ourselves.
Talking was when I went up tosee you that day.
Camila Paloni (23:08):
That's right, right before we left, and I'm so
thankful, that's right that wegot to be friends.
It was so good, even though shewas sick, even though it was
hard, it was hard.
Denise Jackson (23:23):
It was harder with all these things, yes, but
even looking back for sophia, Ifeel like that was like good,
because she got thatpeacefulness and quiet with her
mom and then when she did come,she was ready to be there.
She wanted to get there.
You know, it's like it was goodshe wanted to help yes, she
just was great.
I mean she had, she seemed likeshe didn't have any challenges
(23:44):
To me just looking from theoutside.
She was just so happy andtalking and visiting.
So it was really really goodfor both of them too.
It was really great yeah yeah,and your youngest is like.
She's like a whirlwind, so be asquatter that you've got the
(24:06):
one that's gonna just bring thestorm and bring the smiles.
She would go around givingsmiles to everybody, yeah she
was just loving on everyone.
Camila Paloni (24:15):
It was really really good.
Yeah, so I think it was.
It was so amazing like we gotto know people like you.
All that great things.
Denise Jackson (24:23):
We left feeling like family and that was amazing
.
Camila Paloni (24:26):
Yeah, yeah, and we made a difference, right, and
we made a difference.
Denise Jackson (24:29):
We made a lot of differences.
Camila Paloni (24:31):
It was really fun , it was amazing.
It was, so it was again like wewere really thankful.
You know it was a tough year.
Denise Jackson (24:40):
We were really well, it's not even it wasn't
over.
So we came back from that tripand um, gustavo didn't get a job
still for a while, um, and youwere going through some things
too physically, just um, dealingwith some health stuff, um.
But then so exciting, he gothis job and it's a great job.
(25:07):
And it's so funny because whenhe got the job, wasn't it like
it was gonna?
You were like wait what?
You have to leave town for allthese weeks for training, what's
gonna happen?
Your in-laws ended up coming inand helping to take care of
things.
Camila Paloni (25:21):
And so everything just that's it.
Denise Jackson (25:24):
It just all fell into place, which, again, you
know.
I look back and I see that inmy life too, like I stressed
about it, I tried to controleverything and make sure it
would all work.
It did not work the way Iexpected it to, but everything
worked, because he doesn't leaveus.
Camila Paloni (25:42):
yeah, no, he doesn't and it's and it's
amazing also like you should getand talk to to guto and that's
his testimony to give, but oneof the things that was really
amazing that he says there was aforgiveness component to the
whole thing.
He had like this grudge, youknow, onto him for everything
(26:03):
that had happened, the momentwhere he asked God to help him
to forgive, and when he feltlike he did, he felt like this
weight coming off of hisshoulders and like a few days
later he got the job.
Yeah, praise God, and he gotthe job with three other men,
with two other men in ourcommunity group who had been
(26:24):
looking for a job.
I don't know if you heard thatI did not hear that.
Denise Jackson (26:27):
Who was?
Camila Paloni (26:28):
that uh, pastor jose even talked about it.
Denise Jackson (26:31):
Oh, I missed that day.
I guess he did that's awesomehe was one of three men.
Camila Paloni (26:35):
Uh, he's a season for all the three men in our
community group.
That's awesome.
The whole year they've beenlooking for and answer, you know
from a job perspective, and allof them within a matter of days
.
Oh wow, that's awesome.
It was amazing to witness.
Denise Jackson (26:51):
You know, and I love that, Gustavo, and the men
at our church.
They have this strong communityand men, just like we do, we
need friendships.
We need other women in ourlives that we can count on, that
trust the Lord with our livesand stand with us when we go
(27:15):
through things.
But men, it's so hard for themand in our church I just love
that.
Our men feel the connection toother men that love the lord
that's.
Camila Paloni (27:26):
That's such a blessing it is.
Denise Jackson (27:28):
It is okay.
Well, we're gonna wrap thisconversation up, but I bet we'll
have more conversations downthe road, and we are still
praying for camilla with herhealth issues.
I'm asking you guys to join us,because we're two or more.
Agree is touching.
We have what we say, and that'sGod's word, not my word.
But, camila, do you have anyone little piece of advice that
(27:49):
you'd like to give to thesewomen?
Camila Paloni (27:52):
to just keep a little tidbit of wisdom, yeah, I
think is just trust, trustpeople and find people around
you.
Find people that you can trust,women that you can trust,
because none of us have itfigured out, none of us.
We're all going through stuffright.
(28:13):
So find people that you trust,either through your church, I
don't know through communitygroups, through or friendships.
Denise Jackson (28:20):
I mean God can bring you close friendships
exactly you know but a lot oftimes churches is a that's a
great place, exactly because atleast you're grounded on that on
the same principles on the samevalues right like so it's.
Camila Paloni (28:34):
It's been amazing like we've moved to texas not
not long ago, to be honest andwe are surrounded by people who
share our faith, who share ourvalues, and that's been mostly
through church so yeah, findyour people, find your community
, trusting each other.
Be open and vulnerable.
I think that's been one of themost important things for me and
(28:55):
the biggest piece of advice forme get in the word trust the
the Lord.
Just, I know it's hard, uh, andfor me, I'm a control freak and
I'm a control freak in recovery.
I am trying not to be um and Godhas been teaching me, um, that
I don't always have to havecontrol over things and I have
to replace that perfectionismthat's been such a foundation in
(29:16):
my life for so long.
I have to replace him by by G.
I have through through jesus,right, I have to just put him in
the foundation of my life andjust trust him, just talk to him
, have that really closerelationship with him.
He wants to hear you, he wantsto hear your struggles.
Right, he does not have to bethat formal kind of a kind of a
thing like he.
(29:36):
He wants to be your friend andhe, he wants to be there for you
and I think that's been such alife-changing experience for me
once.
I decided that and I, like Lord,I just need your help.
I want to have thatrelationship with you.
Help me learn how to, becausesometimes it's also really hard.
How do I have that relationship?
It's hard, it's also by, butit's worth.
(29:59):
Yeah, worth it to keep.
It's worth it.
It's worth it Also by talkingto people who have been maybe
further along in your faithjourney.
I think that's been also superhelpful for me.
People like you, denise, andgot all their other friends who
are just further along in theirjourney, in their faith journey,
who have helped me withquestions and know and doubts
(30:21):
and scripture when I didn't haveany or just I don't know.
It's just been just superhelpful having having friends
around it.
Denise Jackson (30:29):
It does, you know.
It tells us that we need thebody if, if, that were part of
each other and, um, we need that.
We need that for our defense inthe earth while we're walking
through it.
But one thing I just want totell you to end this is that
abba father created you strongand independent and capable
(30:50):
because you're a warrior womanyou are mighty, but we do have
to be willing to.
Uh, let him choose him.
And then we come into fullnessof that strength.
It's not like he he's neverreally taken.
He's made me stronger.
The more I submit to the word.
He strengthens me more and moreand I get stronger.
(31:13):
I'm much stronger now than Iwas when I was a 16 year old kid
.
You know, uh, by leaps andbounds, and I expect my later
days will be greater.
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