May 6, 2025 • 23 mins
Nancy Williams shares her journey of trusting God after losing her counseling internship for standing by her beliefs, leading to an unexpected blessing when she immediately found her own office space.
• Facing multiple family deaths and an unwanted move in her early 40s created a challenging season of grief
• Pursued a master's degree in counseling to better equip herself for speaking at women's conferences
• Lost her internship when she refused to compromise her beliefs on a work assignment
• Signed a lease on an empty office the same day without consulting anyone
• Husband immediately offered furniture from their home to help set up her practice
• Ministers in the community started referring clients within days of opening
• Parenting adult children requires transparency about our own struggles while maintaining healthy boundaries
• Taking care of ourselves spiritually, physically and emotionally allows us to be better supports for our children
• Through life's challenges, God sometimes shows the whole path and sometimes just the next step
• Trusting God doesn't guarantee a trouble-free life but ensures His presence through every circumstance
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. – Proverbs 3:5-6
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Denise Jackson (00:00):
So, yay, we're sitting down finally to have
this podcast, but this is not anabnormal thing for you and I.
We've been sitting down havingvisits for a long time.
This is Nancy Williams.
I'm Denise Jackson.
I'm so glad you joined us today.
We want you to know that we tellour stories because we want you
(00:23):
to be built up in your faith,for you to know that God will
work on your behalf.
He's not a respecter of persons.
He will take care of you andlove you, just as he's done for
us, and so we hope these storiesthat we share with you will do
that for you.
They will build you up in theinner man and that you will have
faith in the times that youhave to go through we all have
(00:46):
to go through in our lives,trusting only the Father that
loves us in Jesus' name.
Okay, so today we're going totalk about a time in your life
that really required you totrust God and just hang on right
(01:11):
, and it was a kind of bigchange.
So before we even start talkingabout that, let's talk about,
like, what you were doing, whereyou were.
What was that time period like?
Nancy Williams (01:22):
I mean, you pick a day and that's what was going
on.
For me that day is having totrust God and step out, knowing
and believing that he was goingto be there with me and walk
alongside me and guide me,whether I knew the route or was
completely unknown.
But I can think of a particulartime that I'll share with you
(01:44):
today.
Denise Jackson (01:45):
And.
Nancy Williams (01:45):
I was in my mid-40s and early 40s and I had
gone through a season or we had,as a family, of some
significant loss.
We had deaths of multiplefamily members.
We had moved our family fromone community to another and it
really wasn't a move of ourchoosing, it was because of the
(02:06):
job transfer.
So it was a challenging timeand a difficult time and we were
adjusting and God was faithfulto guide us through and care for
us, got my kids into a goodschool as they were finishing up
high school.
Denise Jackson (02:20):
High school.
How old were they when?
Nancy Williams (02:22):
you made that move.
They were fifth grade andseventh grade so moving into
middle school.
So a few years into that, as wewere in that community and
dealing with all these losses, Icame to a place where I felt
like God was going to open up anew season in my life, and I
didn't know quite what that was.
I had left someresponsibilities and
(02:43):
opportunities andaccomplishments in the community
where I'd been.
So I was at this place where Ithought God had some open doors
coming, but I didn't know whatthey were.
Denise Jackson (02:53):
Were you hungry for something new?
At that point, I was.
Nancy Williams (02:57):
And I think part of it was just looking at how
to move past the or how to copewith the grief that I was
dealing with, because you don'tget over grieving grieving, you
just learn to live with thoselosses.
And I think, as I was learningto do that, there was a hunger
in me for more and I thought,god, you've given me skills and
you've given me abilities andyou've given me experiences.
(03:19):
What do you want me to do withthose?
And I felt like I had thesethings within me that I needed
to find a place to use.
And so, through a season ofevents and conversations with
people, I ended up seeking out adegree in counseling.
I already had a teachingcertificate.
I taught school.
(03:39):
I had done a number of thingsprofessionally, but I thought
getting this master's degree incounseling would better equip me
to speak.
I was doing conferences andretreats for women.
I thought this was going tobetter equip me to be that
speaker and writer that Ibelieve God is calling me to
share my story and shareencouragement with others.
(03:59):
That was wisdom.
So I followed that path and Igot that degree and stepped into
an internship role and it wasin that internship role I was
feeling like I was on the cusp.
I thought, you know, I'm aboutto step through this door and
God's been preparing me and thatwas exciting and I felt like I
(04:20):
was on this adventure, you knowwhere is he taking me now?
Denise Jackson (04:23):
We love those adventures, right?
Nancy Williams (04:24):
And I knew that the doors were going to be wide
open because it wasn'tpigeonholed into one place.
So, as I was doing myinternship at a place, I was put
in a position where I was askedto do something that I felt was
compromising beliefs for me andI didn't feel comfortable with
(04:46):
it.
But that challenge was pressingin on me and I was told you know
, you're our employee and we'reasking you to do this and
basically, if you want to keepyour job, this is what you'll do
.
And you know, I prayed aboutthat.
I talked with my husband aboutthat and I just didn't have a
piece that that's was somethingI was to do.
So I told them I was sorry butI couldn't.
(05:09):
And they said well, you know,we're sorry, you've made that
choice, it's been wonderfulhaving you and we'll get the
security guard to help you packup your things and we'll escort
you out.
This afternoon and all of asudden it was like whoa, yes, I
just lost a paid internship andfortunately, I had all my hours
to get my license.
(05:29):
So I wasn't worried about that.
But I thought what do I do now?
Denise Jackson (05:34):
so, so so right there, yeah, that's.
Those are the moments when youfelt like god led you to get
your masters right.
Nancy Williams (05:42):
You went to get your internship hours, you think
you're on the right path andyou're excited and all of a
sudden it feels like the rug hasbeen pulled out from under you
it did, because that doors notjust gently shut, it slams shut
and it's terrible havingsomebody leave you to ask you to
leave.
Denise Jackson (05:58):
I mean, that's like a very it hurts us, it did.
Nancy Williams (06:02):
I you know, on one level I felt failure,
disappointment, maybedisappointment've you know, on
one level I felt um failure ordisappointment, maybe
disappointment, although youknow god enforced me, you were
standing up for what you believeI want for you, so that's not
failure you know so um, there,we were walking through those
pieces too.
there was a building nearby thathad some office space and I
(06:23):
knew some therapists that werein that building working and
they were always telling meNancy, when you're ready, we
want you to come and workside-by-side with us.
So I went into that buildingand I thought well, I wonder
what's there.
I've got all my stuff in my car, what am I going to do?
So I went and there was thislittle office available and I
(06:47):
went in and this little officeavailable.
And I went in and they said ifyou take it today, it can be
yours and I thought, okay, sothere I was signing a piece of
paper.
Denise Jackson (06:52):
Did you talk to someone before it?
Nancy Williams (06:54):
No, oh my gosh, I just said I just felt like
okay, god, is this an open?
Door and I thought well, I'llsign it and, if I can, I'll say
whoops, I'm sorry I can't dothis and you know we can make
mistakes, right?
Denise Jackson (07:07):
That's the thing .
You could have signed that andthen found out okay, this is not
the right thing, and even then,God would have been with you.
Nancy Williams (07:15):
So I walked into that office and I remember, I
can remember as if it wasyesterday I stood in the middle
of that little office not astitch of furniture in it
thinking first of all, oh mygosh, what am I doing?
And then just took a deepbreath and I said, okay, god, I
don't know what just happened atthat other place, but that door
(07:37):
just slammed shut.
But I believe I was standingfor what you've taught me all my
life to be a right thing.
So I don't apologize for that.
And you let it happen for areason.
I trust you to know that youdon't let things just happen
randomly in my life ever.
So that had to be on purpose.
And now, here I am in thisplace, with nothing around me
(08:02):
and a commitment I've made, andand yet I don't feel a fear, I
feel a peace.
So God tell me, confirm with me.
Is this what I'm supposed to bedoing?
If not, then tell me to gooutside, tear up that piece of
paper, go home and just wait onyou.
But instead he just whisperedto my heart and said I brought
you here for a purpose.
(08:23):
Now, do you trust me?
And I said, of course I trustyou, god, I always trust you.
Then I have a plan for you.
Oh, he took me to that verse,for I know the plans I have for
you.
You know plans to prosper you,to give you a future and a hope.
Are you willing to trust me andstep out and see where I take
(08:43):
you?
Denise Jackson (08:44):
That's a great story because for a couple of
reasons First of all, because ofwhat was before and what came
after, but also because youdidn't even have to wait.
My story's like that I had towait a while I had to hold on,
but that one was such a goodstory because he did it right
away.
Nancy Williams (09:03):
He did, and I've had lots of times where he said
, just be still and wait.
Denise Jackson (09:07):
Oh, my gosh, and he knows that is not easy for
me to be still no.
But this time things just wentabout so fast and probably
because you really stepped outthere with your faith, in a
situation that you could havejust acquiesced and he still
would have cared for you in thatsituation, right but because
you were willing to stand forwhat you believe, my gosh he
(09:30):
moved.
Nancy Williams (09:31):
That's awesome he did and he confirmed me what
to me in that afternoon.
This is where I want you to be.
I've saved this little office,because how it came in available
would a story in and of itself,you know, and it was one space
in that building where I hopedsomeday I would end up.
One space, just the right size,just an affordable amount, the
(09:52):
perfect place.
And then, just because God isso gracious in his blessings, I
went home that night and I toldmy husband all that had happened
and he knew the struggle, thechallenge that I was facing at
work.
So he was not surprised that I.
He knew I was going to stand myground.
So he was half expecting thatto happen, maybe not quite so
(10:13):
abruptly, but we were expectinga change.
And he was a very godly man,and so he trusted in God, as did
I, and he said, said, well then, god, something got something
else in store about the officeand his first response was to
look around the room and say,okay, we'll take those two
chairs and we'll take this tableand we'll get this desk and he
(10:35):
was ready to load up the carthat night.
Take the office furniture thereand set me up.
Denise Jackson (10:41):
I love that.
Nancy Williams (10:41):
I love that.
And so God was confirming inhis heart just like in mine hey
sell it at Etsy.
Denise Jackson (10:47):
I got you, I got this and it took you on a
journey that has blessed so manypeople and continues to to this
day.
You still counsel, coach, youstill write, and you've written
books that are published, andyou do workshops and you speak
to groups of women and encouragethem.
(11:08):
Plus, you live in our littlecommunity and bless just your
friends, even though none of uspay you for it.
Nancy Williams (11:14):
We abuse you often as somebody that really
understands how to walk usthrough some hard times, and
it's helped you through the hardtime you've walked through
recently too Well you know,sometimes God, I think, shines a
light down a path and says Okay, here's where I'm taking you,
nancy, and see this ahead,here's where we're going, here's
how we're going to get there.
(11:35):
And I roll up my sleeves and goOkay.
Denise Jackson (11:37):
I'm good to go.
We've got a plan.
I love having a plan.
Nancy Williams (11:40):
I love having plans and sometimes he shines
that light and just says take astep right there and just wait
on me for the next step.
And sometimes he just says justbe still.
Yes, we're going to go down apath, but not right at this
moment, but will you just bestill and wait on me and I'll
shine the light where I want youto go?
So he's given me all thoseexperiences, but each is a
(12:05):
challenge, because sometimes Isee that path and go oh god, you
know, that's kind of far andbig and steep and rocky and
rough and I have a lot of curvesand bends and I don't know that
I can do that.
And then other times it's god,I'm still waiting and you
haven't shined the light yet onthe next step.
When is the next step?
Denise Jackson (12:20):
so so the book that you wrote um raising,
you're gonna say the title butraising your adults secrets to
parenting your adult childrenwhich I, I love the book and uh,
but it was written when youradult children were just young
adults, right?
So, over the years, have youwhat?
(12:44):
What things come to mind as youthink about that book and you
think about the rest of theyears and and do you have a
piece of advice that you couldpass on to your?
Just maybe one piece of advicetoday and we'll save some for um
future.
But I but I think that you know,when you were talking about
(13:04):
praying and god saying wait, Ifeel like that's most evident in
my life with my children,because it's very hard to wait
when we see our children goingthrough things where they
struggle and they hurt and allof us face that, true.
So I think that's like, if youhave one piece of advice to
(13:29):
offer, you're offering it to me,but also there's probably a lot
of other women out there thatwould really appreciate that
advice.
Gosh, what would you tellyourself right now?
Nancy Williams (13:41):
I think well, because my children are facing
some challenges, even though Idid write that book when my kids
were in their 20s, maybe 30.
I now see that I think what Godhas taught me most is I need to
take care of myself spiritually, physically, emotionally so I
(14:02):
can be the best support to them.
You know, you use the examplethat's so common about how they
teach you when you're on anairline flight, if an oxygen
mask drops down, put yours onand then tend to your children,
because if you're not healthy,if you're not taking care of
yourself, you're not of a lot ofvalue to them.
(14:23):
Nor are you a good example tothem.
If I'm not praying, if I'm notseeking God's direction, how can
I tell my kids to do that?
Denise Jackson (14:31):
Praise God, that's good If I need to be
strong that's right.
Nancy Williams (14:36):
My kids know that.
I mean they know me well andthey can sense I can say, oh,
I'm fine.
And they look at me like mom,you are lying.
Denise Jackson (14:45):
Well.
Nancy Williams (14:46):
I'm a liar, maybe I'm just exaggerating a
little bit, but I don't want youto worry about me.
Denise Jackson (14:51):
Right, we always say to them you have your own
things that you have to dealwith.
I don't want you worrying aboutme, but it does affect us, and
so when we get back in touchwith where we need to be sitting
at the feet of Jesus, sittingat the feet of our Father,
listening we do better, we dobetter and then we're able to
share out of that.
Nancy Williams (15:12):
I had a conversation with my son just
last night and God just openedthe door unexpectedly for us to
be able to talk for a fewminutes and I shared with him a
struggle I was having and how Iwas praying that through and
really wrestling with God aboutthat, and so I think, out of my
(15:36):
being able to do that, then Ican share it with him, not just
giving him a lecture here's whatyou're supposed to do but to
say here's what I'm learning ishelpful for me and here's what's
getting in the way for me andhere's what God's teaching me.
So I think the more we can,grow.
Denise Jackson (15:57):
And be transparent with our children
about our lives.
It doesn't mean you air out allyour dirty laundry.
Nancy Williams (16:02):
But if you're drawn close to God and asking
God to give you wisdom as aparent, god will show you what
to share and when and how toshare it in a way that then God
can use it and it doesn't createmore stress.
I mean, if I tell my kids I amfalling apart, I mean my husband
died three years ago and insome days it feels like he died
(16:24):
30 minutes ago and I so if Ijust tell my kids I am falling
apart, well, my two sons areprotective of me, especially
since their dad died.
Now they're worried about me.
That's not productive.
No, but if I say to my kids youknow, I've been really
struggling a lot with missingyour dad and here's how I'm
coping, you know, and here's howGod's helping me, then it
(16:47):
becomes transparent in a waythat can help them.
Denise Jackson (16:51):
That's right and encourage them Because you're
giving them positive steps totake to get better in their own
lives with their own issues.
And the other thing that we cando and it doesn't require us to
speak to them is to pray, andwe both I know you do, because
we pray together often for ourchildren.
But God's word has promisesabout our children and so you
(17:16):
know we can talk to them and wecan be transparent in where
we're weak, and I do think thatreally impacts them.
Nancy Williams (17:23):
Well, the example I used earlier about
having to stand up and standstrong in the face of some
opposition because I knew I wasstanding on God's word when I
was, yeah, is an example toshare with them and then to say,
I stepped out and trusted whereI thought God was leading.
You know, sometimes God, as Isaid, shows us, and sometimes I
(17:44):
just say okay, god, I'm not surewhere you're leading, so I'm
going to step out here.
If it it's not the right place,then shut the door, that's
right.
That's what I say too.
Well, it's because he said thatRight, by the way, and so he'll
shut the door and lead us andsay, nope, that's not it, and
he'll take us over there.
He's not going to let us fallwhen we're trying to do things
(18:06):
according to what he wants.
Denise Jackson (18:08):
He's right there to hear this and say he says
okay, let me show you right I'llguide you.
Nancy Williams (18:14):
And which is what he did that day in that
little empty office you know,and then because I said, okay,
I'm not sure how all this isgoing to flow and I'm a new
therapist who's even going tocome see me and my husband took
care of the furniture.
Well, that was good, but how wewere going to rent was another
story.
But you know how God in his, inhis blessing, to say do you
(18:37):
trust me?
And I'm looking in the emptyoffice saying, god, I do trust
you and I trust you're going tobring people.
It wasn't a day or two later Igot calls from two ministers in
that community where this newlittle office was.
One was a hospital chaplain,the other was a minister saying
we heard that you've opened up apractice.
(18:58):
We are so appreciative of howyou work with the people.
We've sent to you in yourinternship.
We want to send people to youand people started calling.
Denise Jackson (19:09):
And it was just gone, and that's it.
He's promised we will havefavor with him I mean with men
because we have favor with himand because you stepped out on
that ledge.
Really it was a ledge in bothways.
Signing the rent, I did thesame thing.
It's so funny, as we share ourstories with each other, when I
(19:30):
hear that, that I'm like, oh mygosh, I did that with the
Daycare Center.
We were both crazy.
Thank God, we had you.
Thank God, we had you, lord,because you were there to just
establish us.
We thought we knew and heardyour voice and we stepped out.
And really, I guess I want tosay on this conversation as we
draw to an end never in my lifehave I been in a situation where
(19:55):
I stepped out and fell headlong.
Sometimes I stumbled a littlebit, sometimes I had to go
through some things.
Just like Nancy, I would getout there and go, ok, now what,
now what?
I'm here and I don't know whatto do next and kind of I'm in
that situation again with thiswebsite and all the things that
I'm doing, but God has never letme fall headlong.
(20:18):
And so what do you want toclose our conversation with?
That maybe will help our girls.
Just be strong.
Nancy Williams (20:28):
I would love to tell you so.
I opened that office.
People came flooding in and Ilived happily ever after,
however, there have been somestumbling blocks, there have
been some challenges.
There's been multiple lifechanges.
There's been more grief andloss in my life, but yet each
way there have been times thatI've stumbled.
(20:50):
Each step of the way, god hasassured me that he's with me.
Sometimes he's picked me up andhad to nurse my wounds and
sometimes he's been theencouraging voice in my heart
telling me just trust on me.
So the thing I think I wouldmost leave with you is a verse
that I lean on in my lifeProverbs 3, 5 and 6.
(21:11):
Trust in the Lord with all yourheart, and I like to say, don't
be limited by it says lean noton your own understanding.
In all your ways, acknowledgehim and he will direct your path
.
Denise Jackson (21:26):
Praise God.
Okay well, thank you, Nancy,for sitting down with me.
I hope you're going to sit downwith me often and share wisdom.
You know wisdom comes fromliving life, from walking
through the earth, and so comeback again, and we're so glad
you joined us today.
So, yay, we're sitting down finally to have
this podcast, but this is not anabnormal thing for you and I.
We've been sitting down havingvisits for a long time.
This is Nancy Williams.
I'm Denise Jackson.
I'm so glad you joined us today.
We want you to know that we tellour stories because we want you
(00:23):
to be built up in your faith,for you to know that God will
work on your behalf.
He's not a respecter of persons.
He will take care of you andlove you, just as he's done for
us, and so we hope these storiesthat we share with you will do
that for you.
They will build you up in theinner man and that you will have
faith in the times that youhave to go through we all have
(00:46):
to go through in our lives,trusting only the Father that
loves us in Jesus' name.
Okay, so today we're going totalk about a time in your life
that really required you totrust God and just hang on right
(01:11):
, and it was a kind of bigchange.
So before we even start talkingabout that, let's talk about,
like, what you were doing, whereyou were.
What was that time period like?
Nancy Williams (01:22):
I mean, you pick a day and that's what was going
on.
For me that day is having totrust God and step out, knowing
and believing that he was goingto be there with me and walk
alongside me and guide me,whether I knew the route or was
completely unknown.
But I can think of a particulartime that I'll share with you
(01:44):
today.
Denise Jackson (01:45):
And.
Nancy Williams (01:45):
I was in my mid-40s and early 40s and I had
gone through a season or we had,as a family, of some
significant loss.
We had deaths of multiplefamily members.
We had moved our family fromone community to another and it
really wasn't a move of ourchoosing, it was because of the
(02:06):
job transfer.
So it was a challenging timeand a difficult time and we were
adjusting and God was faithfulto guide us through and care for
us, got my kids into a goodschool as they were finishing up
high school.
Denise Jackson (02:20):
High school.
How old were they when?
Nancy Williams (02:22):
you made that move.
They were fifth grade andseventh grade so moving into
middle school.
So a few years into that, as wewere in that community and
dealing with all these losses, Icame to a place where I felt
like God was going to open up anew season in my life, and I
didn't know quite what that was.
I had left someresponsibilities and
(02:43):
opportunities andaccomplishments in the community
where I'd been.
So I was at this place where Ithought God had some open doors
coming, but I didn't know whatthey were.
Denise Jackson (02:53):
Were you hungry for something new?
At that point, I was.
Nancy Williams (02:57):
And I think part of it was just looking at how
to move past the or how to copewith the grief that I was
dealing with, because you don'tget over grieving grieving, you
just learn to live with thoselosses.
And I think, as I was learningto do that, there was a hunger
in me for more and I thought,god, you've given me skills and
you've given me abilities andyou've given me experiences.
(03:19):
What do you want me to do withthose?
And I felt like I had thesethings within me that I needed
to find a place to use.
And so, through a season ofevents and conversations with
people, I ended up seeking out adegree in counseling.
I already had a teachingcertificate.
I taught school.
(03:39):
I had done a number of thingsprofessionally, but I thought
getting this master's degree incounseling would better equip me
to speak.
I was doing conferences andretreats for women.
I thought this was going tobetter equip me to be that
speaker and writer that Ibelieve God is calling me to
share my story and shareencouragement with others.
(03:59):
That was wisdom.
So I followed that path and Igot that degree and stepped into
an internship role and it wasin that internship role I was
feeling like I was on the cusp.
I thought, you know, I'm aboutto step through this door and
God's been preparing me and thatwas exciting and I felt like I
(04:20):
was on this adventure, you knowwhere is he taking me now?
Denise Jackson (04:23):
We love those adventures, right?
Nancy Williams (04:24):
And I knew that the doors were going to be wide
open because it wasn'tpigeonholed into one place.
So, as I was doing myinternship at a place, I was put
in a position where I was askedto do something that I felt was
compromising beliefs for me andI didn't feel comfortable with
(04:46):
it.
But that challenge was pressingin on me and I was told you know
, you're our employee and we'reasking you to do this and
basically, if you want to keepyour job, this is what you'll do
.
And you know, I prayed aboutthat.
I talked with my husband aboutthat and I just didn't have a
piece that that's was somethingI was to do.
So I told them I was sorry butI couldn't.
(05:09):
And they said well, you know,we're sorry, you've made that
choice, it's been wonderfulhaving you and we'll get the
security guard to help you packup your things and we'll escort
you out.
This afternoon and all of asudden it was like whoa, yes, I
just lost a paid internship andfortunately, I had all my hours
to get my license.
(05:29):
So I wasn't worried about that.
But I thought what do I do now?
Denise Jackson (05:34):
so, so so right there, yeah, that's.
Those are the moments when youfelt like god led you to get
your masters right.
Nancy Williams (05:42):
You went to get your internship hours, you think
you're on the right path andyou're excited and all of a
sudden it feels like the rug hasbeen pulled out from under you
it did, because that doors notjust gently shut, it slams shut
and it's terrible havingsomebody leave you to ask you to
leave.
Denise Jackson (05:58):
I mean, that's like a very it hurts us, it did.
Nancy Williams (06:02):
I you know, on one level I felt failure,
disappointment, maybedisappointment've you know, on
one level I felt um failure ordisappointment, maybe
disappointment, although youknow god enforced me, you were
standing up for what you believeI want for you, so that's not
failure you know so um, there,we were walking through those
pieces too.
there was a building nearby thathad some office space and I
(06:23):
knew some therapists that werein that building working and
they were always telling meNancy, when you're ready, we
want you to come and workside-by-side with us.
So I went into that buildingand I thought well, I wonder
what's there.
I've got all my stuff in my car, what am I going to do?
So I went and there was thislittle office available and I
(06:47):
went in and this little officeavailable.
And I went in and they said ifyou take it today, it can be
yours and I thought, okay, sothere I was signing a piece of
paper.
Denise Jackson (06:52):
Did you talk to someone before it?
Nancy Williams (06:54):
No, oh my gosh, I just said I just felt like
okay, god, is this an open?
Door and I thought well, I'llsign it and, if I can, I'll say
whoops, I'm sorry I can't dothis and you know we can make
mistakes, right?
Denise Jackson (07:07):
That's the thing .
You could have signed that andthen found out okay, this is not
the right thing, and even then,God would have been with you.
Nancy Williams (07:15):
So I walked into that office and I remember, I
can remember as if it wasyesterday I stood in the middle
of that little office not astitch of furniture in it
thinking first of all, oh mygosh, what am I doing?
And then just took a deepbreath and I said, okay, god, I
don't know what just happened atthat other place, but that door
(07:37):
just slammed shut.
But I believe I was standingfor what you've taught me all my
life to be a right thing.
So I don't apologize for that.
And you let it happen for areason.
I trust you to know that youdon't let things just happen
randomly in my life ever.
So that had to be on purpose.
And now, here I am in thisplace, with nothing around me
(08:02):
and a commitment I've made, andand yet I don't feel a fear, I
feel a peace.
So God tell me, confirm with me.
Is this what I'm supposed to bedoing?
If not, then tell me to gooutside, tear up that piece of
paper, go home and just wait onyou.
But instead he just whisperedto my heart and said I brought
you here for a purpose.
(08:23):
Now, do you trust me?
And I said, of course I trustyou, god, I always trust you.
Then I have a plan for you.
Oh, he took me to that verse,for I know the plans I have for
you.
You know plans to prosper you,to give you a future and a hope.
Are you willing to trust me andstep out and see where I take
(08:43):
you?
Denise Jackson (08:44):
That's a great story because for a couple of
reasons First of all, because ofwhat was before and what came
after, but also because youdidn't even have to wait.
My story's like that I had towait a while I had to hold on,
but that one was such a goodstory because he did it right
away.
Nancy Williams (09:03):
He did, and I've had lots of times where he said
, just be still and wait.
Denise Jackson (09:07):
Oh, my gosh, and he knows that is not easy for
me to be still no.
But this time things just wentabout so fast and probably
because you really stepped outthere with your faith, in a
situation that you could havejust acquiesced and he still
would have cared for you in thatsituation, right but because
you were willing to stand forwhat you believe, my gosh he
(09:30):
moved.
Nancy Williams (09:31):
That's awesome he did and he confirmed me what
to me in that afternoon.
This is where I want you to be.
I've saved this little office,because how it came in available
would a story in and of itself,you know, and it was one space
in that building where I hopedsomeday I would end up.
One space, just the right size,just an affordable amount, the
(09:52):
perfect place.
And then, just because God isso gracious in his blessings, I
went home that night and I toldmy husband all that had happened
and he knew the struggle, thechallenge that I was facing at
work.
So he was not surprised that I.
He knew I was going to stand myground.
So he was half expecting thatto happen, maybe not quite so
(10:13):
abruptly, but we were expectinga change.
And he was a very godly man,and so he trusted in God, as did
I, and he said, said, well then, god, something got something
else in store about the officeand his first response was to
look around the room and say,okay, we'll take those two
chairs and we'll take this tableand we'll get this desk and he
(10:35):
was ready to load up the carthat night.
Take the office furniture thereand set me up.
Denise Jackson (10:41):
I love that.
Nancy Williams (10:41):
I love that.
And so God was confirming inhis heart just like in mine hey
sell it at Etsy.
Denise Jackson (10:47):
I got you, I got this and it took you on a
journey that has blessed so manypeople and continues to to this
day.
You still counsel, coach, youstill write, and you've written
books that are published, andyou do workshops and you speak
to groups of women and encouragethem.
(11:08):
Plus, you live in our littlecommunity and bless just your
friends, even though none of uspay you for it.
Nancy Williams (11:14):
We abuse you often as somebody that really
understands how to walk usthrough some hard times, and
it's helped you through the hardtime you've walked through
recently too Well you know,sometimes God, I think, shines a
light down a path and says Okay, here's where I'm taking you,
nancy, and see this ahead,here's where we're going, here's
how we're going to get there.
(11:35):
And I roll up my sleeves and goOkay.
Denise Jackson (11:37):
I'm good to go.
We've got a plan.
I love having a plan.
Nancy Williams (11:40):
I love having plans and sometimes he shines
that light and just says take astep right there and just wait
on me for the next step.
And sometimes he just says justbe still.
Yes, we're going to go down apath, but not right at this
moment, but will you just bestill and wait on me and I'll
shine the light where I want youto go?
So he's given me all thoseexperiences, but each is a
(12:05):
challenge, because sometimes Isee that path and go oh god, you
know, that's kind of far andbig and steep and rocky and
rough and I have a lot of curvesand bends and I don't know that
I can do that.
And then other times it's god,I'm still waiting and you
haven't shined the light yet onthe next step.
When is the next step?
Denise Jackson (12:20):
so so the book that you wrote um raising,
you're gonna say the title butraising your adults secrets to
parenting your adult childrenwhich I, I love the book and uh,
but it was written when youradult children were just young
adults, right?
So, over the years, have youwhat?
(12:44):
What things come to mind as youthink about that book and you
think about the rest of theyears and and do you have a
piece of advice that you couldpass on to your?
Just maybe one piece of advicetoday and we'll save some for um
future.
But I but I think that you know,when you were talking about
(13:04):
praying and god saying wait, Ifeel like that's most evident in
my life with my children,because it's very hard to wait
when we see our children goingthrough things where they
struggle and they hurt and allof us face that, true.
So I think that's like, if youhave one piece of advice to
(13:29):
offer, you're offering it to me,but also there's probably a lot
of other women out there thatwould really appreciate that
advice.
Gosh, what would you tellyourself right now?
Nancy Williams (13:41):
I think well, because my children are facing
some challenges, even though Idid write that book when my kids
were in their 20s, maybe 30.
I now see that I think what Godhas taught me most is I need to
take care of myself spiritually, physically, emotionally so I
(14:02):
can be the best support to them.
You know, you use the examplethat's so common about how they
teach you when you're on anairline flight, if an oxygen
mask drops down, put yours onand then tend to your children,
because if you're not healthy,if you're not taking care of
yourself, you're not of a lot ofvalue to them.
(14:23):
Nor are you a good example tothem.
If I'm not praying, if I'm notseeking God's direction, how can
I tell my kids to do that?
Denise Jackson (14:31):
Praise God, that's good If I need to be
strong that's right.
Nancy Williams (14:36):
My kids know that.
I mean they know me well andthey can sense I can say, oh,
I'm fine.
And they look at me like mom,you are lying.
Denise Jackson (14:45):
Well.
Nancy Williams (14:46):
I'm a liar, maybe I'm just exaggerating a
little bit, but I don't want youto worry about me.
Denise Jackson (14:51):
Right, we always say to them you have your own
things that you have to dealwith.
I don't want you worrying aboutme, but it does affect us, and
so when we get back in touchwith where we need to be sitting
at the feet of Jesus, sittingat the feet of our Father,
listening we do better, we dobetter and then we're able to
share out of that.
Nancy Williams (15:12):
I had a conversation with my son just
last night and God just openedthe door unexpectedly for us to
be able to talk for a fewminutes and I shared with him a
struggle I was having and how Iwas praying that through and
really wrestling with God aboutthat, and so I think, out of my
(15:36):
being able to do that, then Ican share it with him, not just
giving him a lecture here's whatyou're supposed to do but to
say here's what I'm learning ishelpful for me and here's what's
getting in the way for me andhere's what God's teaching me.
So I think the more we can,grow.
Denise Jackson (15:57):
And be transparent with our children
about our lives.
It doesn't mean you air out allyour dirty laundry.
Nancy Williams (16:02):
But if you're drawn close to God and asking
God to give you wisdom as aparent, god will show you what
to share and when and how toshare it in a way that then God
can use it and it doesn't createmore stress.
I mean, if I tell my kids I amfalling apart, I mean my husband
died three years ago and insome days it feels like he died
(16:24):
30 minutes ago and I so if Ijust tell my kids I am falling
apart, well, my two sons areprotective of me, especially
since their dad died.
Now they're worried about me.
That's not productive.
No, but if I say to my kids youknow, I've been really
struggling a lot with missingyour dad and here's how I'm
coping, you know, and here's howGod's helping me, then it
(16:47):
becomes transparent in a waythat can help them.
Denise Jackson (16:51):
That's right and encourage them Because you're
giving them positive steps totake to get better in their own
lives with their own issues.
And the other thing that we cando and it doesn't require us to
speak to them is to pray, andwe both I know you do, because
we pray together often for ourchildren.
But God's word has promisesabout our children and so you
(17:16):
know we can talk to them and wecan be transparent in where
we're weak, and I do think thatreally impacts them.
Nancy Williams (17:23):
Well, the example I used earlier about
having to stand up and standstrong in the face of some
opposition because I knew I wasstanding on God's word when I
was, yeah, is an example toshare with them and then to say,
I stepped out and trusted whereI thought God was leading.
You know, sometimes God, as Isaid, shows us, and sometimes I
(17:44):
just say okay, god, I'm not surewhere you're leading, so I'm
going to step out here.
If it it's not the right place,then shut the door, that's
right.
That's what I say too.
Well, it's because he said thatRight, by the way, and so he'll
shut the door and lead us andsay, nope, that's not it, and
he'll take us over there.
He's not going to let us fallwhen we're trying to do things
(18:06):
according to what he wants.
Denise Jackson (18:08):
He's right there to hear this and say he says
okay, let me show you right I'llguide you.
Nancy Williams (18:14):
And which is what he did that day in that
little empty office you know,and then because I said, okay,
I'm not sure how all this isgoing to flow and I'm a new
therapist who's even going tocome see me and my husband took
care of the furniture.
Well, that was good, but how wewere going to rent was another
story.
But you know how God in his, inhis blessing, to say do you
(18:37):
trust me?
And I'm looking in the emptyoffice saying, god, I do trust
you and I trust you're going tobring people.
It wasn't a day or two later Igot calls from two ministers in
that community where this newlittle office was.
One was a hospital chaplain,the other was a minister saying
we heard that you've opened up apractice.
(18:58):
We are so appreciative of howyou work with the people.
We've sent to you in yourinternship.
We want to send people to youand people started calling.
Denise Jackson (19:09):
And it was just gone, and that's it.
He's promised we will havefavor with him I mean with men
because we have favor with himand because you stepped out on
that ledge.
Really it was a ledge in bothways.
Signing the rent, I did thesame thing.
It's so funny, as we share ourstories with each other, when I
(19:30):
hear that, that I'm like, oh mygosh, I did that with the
Daycare Center.
We were both crazy.
Thank God, we had you.
Thank God, we had you, lord,because you were there to just
establish us.
We thought we knew and heardyour voice and we stepped out.
And really, I guess I want tosay on this conversation as we
draw to an end never in my lifehave I been in a situation where
(19:55):
I stepped out and fell headlong.
Sometimes I stumbled a littlebit, sometimes I had to go
through some things.
Just like Nancy, I would getout there and go, ok, now what,
now what?
I'm here and I don't know whatto do next and kind of I'm in
that situation again with thiswebsite and all the things that
I'm doing, but God has never letme fall headlong.
(20:18):
And so what do you want toclose our conversation with?
That maybe will help our girls.
Just be strong.
Nancy Williams (20:28):
I would love to tell you so.
I opened that office.
People came flooding in and Ilived happily ever after,
however, there have been somestumbling blocks, there have
been some challenges.
There's been multiple lifechanges.
There's been more grief andloss in my life, but yet each
way there have been times thatI've stumbled.
(20:50):
Each step of the way, god hasassured me that he's with me.
Sometimes he's picked me up andhad to nurse my wounds and
sometimes he's been theencouraging voice in my heart
telling me just trust on me.
So the thing I think I wouldmost leave with you is a verse
that I lean on in my lifeProverbs 3, 5 and 6.
(21:11):
Trust in the Lord with all yourheart, and I like to say, don't
be limited by it says lean noton your own understanding.
In all your ways, acknowledgehim and he will direct your path
.
Denise Jackson (21:26):
Praise God.
Okay well, thank you, Nancy,for sitting down with me.
I hope you're going to sit downwith me often and share wisdom.
You know wisdom comes fromliving life, from walking
through the earth, and so comeback again, and we're so glad
you joined us today.
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