Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
the podcast that's on a mission
(00:02):
to raise. Better kids and to
highlight the importance of
fathers in doing so. So today
we got a great show for you.
We're going to talk a little
bit about some feedback that I
(00:23):
want to share with you.
We're going to talk a little
bit about some feedback that I
received after the first one and
I'm going to try and be a
little bit more peppy. I
listened to it myself and I was
a little bit. Drowning so I'm
going to try and pick it up a
bit and see where it goes from
(00:46):
there. But we'll address a
little bit of feedback that I
received. We're going to talk
about the game. My new found
mission to master the game of
go and to incorporate that into
my child rearing. We've got a
(01:07):
couple of books to feature
today and we've got a very
special guest. Okay, let's get
to it. I want to take a minute
to address some feedback I
received. It's important and
important to be aware of what
I'm doing. I'm going to be
surrounding modern fatherhood.
(01:28):
I've been told some of the
things I do for Sage dad life.
It just makes it seem like I'm
a single dad. Let me be
absolutely clear. I'm not. I
have a wonderful wife who works
tirelessly every day to build a
safe, happy, loving environment
for Sage. She's an incredible
mother and the work she does is
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invaluable. Being a present
and a father is a great
thing. This podcast is all
about fatherhood and the
importance of dad showing up,
being presence, being engaged.
That's the mission and that's
why I built Sage dad life. Not
to share my personal life and
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how wonderful I am and that I'm
the only one who does anything.
That's far from the truth and
far from what I'm trying to
accomplish. I want to emphasize
the role that fathers play and
that's what she does for her
family. She's not his mom.
She's not particularly a
social media person and she
prefers privacy. I deeply
respect that. Just because you
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don't see her or hear about her
often doesn't mean she's not a
vital part of our family. In
fact, it's quite the opposite.
So much of what I get to do is
a father. The fun moments that
I share with Sage are made
possible because she handles a
lot of things smoothly. For
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that, I'm forever grateful. The
same was true of my first wife
when we were raising our older
kids. Mothers are some of the
most special and incredible
people in the world and their
contribution can never be
overstated. You know, the
Journal of Marriage and Family
highlights that mothers play
this critical role in the
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emotional and psychological
development of their children,
their security and resilience.
And I don't think anybody could
argue with that. Mothers are
incredibly important. But being
a present father shouldn't
require justification. It is
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unfortunate that when a dad is
deeply involved, people assume
there must be a reason that
maybe the mom isn't in the
picture, that maybe something is
missing. And that's part of the
story. When dads step up, it's
often seen as the exception as
opposed to the expectation. The
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National Institute for Child
Health and Human Development
found that children with
involved fathers tend to be
better academically. They have
higher self-esteem, stronger
social skills. Being engaged,
being an engaged father is not
essential. We need to change
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the mindset around fatherhood.
A father's presence in a child's
life should be celebrated. Never
questioned. Dads aren't just
assistants, occasional caregivers.
We are equal partners in raising
our children, and we each bring
something unique, just as
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mothers do. Now, this isn't a
comparison or competition. It's
about embracing the full picture
of parenthood, showing up, making
memories. It's about being there,
not just as providers, but as
nurturers, role models, and active
participants in our children's
lives. So if you've ever wondered
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why Sage Dad Life focuses on
fatherhood, now you know. It's
not because there's a mother that
I think fathers are important,
not more important than mothers.
It's because for far too long
fatherhood hasn't been given the
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attention that it deserves. The
Pew Research Center states that
modern fathers spend nearly three
times as much time with their
children as dads did in the 60s.
But societal expectations are
lagging behind. My hope is that
sharing my journey and the
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difference between raising a kid
in the early 90s and raising a
kid now in the 20s can encourage
dads to be more fully engaged.
We help redefine what it means
to be a father, not as a
secondary role, not as an
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irreplaceable part of the child's
life. This episode of Sage Dad
Life could be sponsored by your
brand. Just like fatherhood, the
best things in life come with
support, guidance, and a little
wisdom. Help dads navigate their
journey with confidence. For your
quality brand, we're proud to
present engaged and empowered
fathers. Visit www.sagedad.life
(06:30):
or email rob at
www.sagedad.life for more
information. Today, we're going
to talk about some of the biggest
responsibilities we carry as
fathers, creating healthy, happy
family. There's no blueprint for
the perfect family. There never
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will be. But the research shows
that a family well-being is
deeply linked to the physical,
according to studies in the
Journal of Marriage and Family,
strong parental involvement,
emotional support significantly
contribute to children's long-term
mental and physical health. As
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fathers, we set the tone for the
household, and we show up. It
impacts people, the people we love
the most. I learned this firsthand
as a father of grown children,
now raising my toddler. My
energy and patience I had in the,
in my 20s are not the same in my
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fifth. But the wisdom and
perspective I've gained is
invaluable. I now understand the
importance of being fully
present and making sure that my
family is thriving on all levels.
The role we play in our family's
well-being, our presence, our
energy, our habits, influence
our family's health and
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break it down into what I see as
key area, supporting your house,
spouse or your partner, nurturing
our children, and staying connected
with extended family. Supporting
your spouse, you know, a strong
relationship is the foundation of
a stable family. Research from
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the Goddham Institute emphasizes
the importance of emotional
attunement, which basically means
responding to your partner's
emotional needs and a healthy
relationship between parents
helps foster a secure
environment for children. I've
learned this lesson over time.
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Early in my marriage, I focused
early in my first marriage. I
focused so much on work and
providing financially that I
would say that I neglected
emotional support. And I've
learned that there isn't just
about money. It's about providing
love, encouragement, strong
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partnership. Something as simple
as taking time to ask, you know,
how was your day? And really
listening, I think I think could
strengthen relationships. But as
a father and taking this active
role, I want to nurture my
children. And I want to make sure
that they thrive emotionally and
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that their own emotions.
I think that the Academy for
Pediatrics say that positive
father involvement improves
self-esteem, academic performance,
emotional regulation, the way
that we handle stress, express
love, and care for ourselves,
models that behavior for their
world. I see this every day in
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my daughter. When she sees me
staying calm during stressful
moments, she learns how to
take the time to play with her,
engage in her world, and encourage
her curiosity. She grows more
confident. It's not about
grand gestures. It's about the
little moments that make the
biggest impact. Staying connected
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with extended family, social
scientists have long studied, you
know, the benefits of extended
family connections. The Journal
of Family Psychology. Children who
maintain relationships with their
other extended relatives experience
a greater sense of identity and
emotional security. Family bonds
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offer support systems that
contribute to overall well-being.
I grew up in relatively tight-knit
family. We didn't have the Sunday
dinners at grandparents' house as
a weekly tradition because we were
very connected to my grandparents.
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And those experiences shaped my
sense of belonging and gave me a
strong foundation. Now as a father,
I try to make sure that my daughter
has the same connection with her
older siblings, aunts, uncles, and
grandparents. These relationships
help create a sense of stability.
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A support system that will last a
lifetime for them. Lastly, I wanted
to talk a little bit about taking
care of your own health. Now, here's
the part that a lot of dads,
especially those later in our years,
don't always think about taking
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care of ourselves, is probably one
of the greatest gifts you can give
your family. I've thought a lot
about taking care of your own
family and their own quality. Like
everyone else, I haven't always
made the best choices. I was a
smoker from my teens to my 40s.
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Three decades of a habit I wish I
could take back and never start.
Thankfully, besides some mild
emphysema, I'm doing okay. But I'm
still doing okay. I'm still
doing okay. After I quit smoking
for two years plus, I started
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doing regular screenings for lung
cancer, which was really emotional
the first time nerve-wracking. So
far, so good. I'm going to keep
doing it every year because my
health is no longer just about
me. It's about sage. It's about
my wife, my grown kids, and
my family. So, you know, you can
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have a proactive impact on your
health. As a father, you should.
Get regular checkups. The National
Institute for Aging shows that
just preventative healthcare
screenings can significantly
improve life expectancy and the
quality of life you're living.
I don't always do this as well
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as I should, but move your body.
You know, the CDC says even
moderate daily exercise reduces
the risks of heart disease,
diabetes, mental health disorders.
Eating better. We'll talk a lot
about that because that has been
(13:26):
a struggle my entire life. And,
you know, the science emphasizes
that a balanced diet, rich in
processed foods, can extend your
life and reduce chronic disease.
Lastly, you know, take care of
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your mental health, research, all
kinds of research, but the
American Psychological Association
highlights a lot about stress and
how stress negatively impacts
heart health, immune function,
even cognitive decline,
prioritizing stress management
benefits both you and your
(14:08):
family.
I've had several wake-up calls.
I often joke that I've had
several midlife crisis as well.
But, you know, keeping up with
my daughter is important.
And any time that I sort of
stumbled with that, I always
spend a lot of time thinking
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about, I don't want to be the
dad who sits on the sidelines.
And I started making small
things, my diet again, being
mindful of my stress, anxiety.
And now I can say that I have
more energy and I can be more
present with my family.
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You know, at the end of the day,
we're not just raising kids.
We're shaping a family that
thrives. Our well-being is
deeply connected to their
well-being. And when we show up
for them and when we create an
environment of love and stability
and health, we set our children
up for a future where they know
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what it means to take care of
themselves and those that they
love. So let's keep going.
Let's keep learning.
And let's keep making the best
choices that we can.
Because being father is a journey
that is worth being present for.
And I feel like I have a
older father. I feel like I have
(15:36):
a deeper responsibility to be
healthy enough to see her through
her milestones.
Yeah, just stay good.
For this episode of the Safe Dad
Life, I have a very special guest.
His name's Joe. And he and I have
worked together on a variety of
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projects over the years.
He's a great person, a great
person, and he's the one that I
respect and is truly a great
human being. And he is a father
and I will let him tell you a
little bit about himself. And
then we'll get right into it.
Welcome, Joe.
(16:19):
I'm a dad.
Well, it's funny.
I'm automatically thinking that
I need to tell you about my
dad. And I think that was pretty
amazing. But I do all kinds of
marketing things in the world
and have done that for a long
(16:43):
time. And that's really me in a
nutshell, I guess. I play music.
I play music and have played
music most of my life. But most
of my time now is spent working
with people. And I'm like,
hey, take us back a little bit
to like when you first found out
(17:04):
you're going to be a dad. You
know, how did that hit you and
in what emotions ran through you?
Yeah, sure. So it was a bit of a
different experience maybe for
her because my wife at the time
and had a couple miscarriages
(17:26):
but so we had been on this
roller coaster of kind of emotions
that you have in those situations.
And so when I found out that we
were having Remy, my daughter,
the first, I mean, obviously just
(17:46):
a flood of emotions of excitement
and gratitude but also given the
situation there was a lot of
caution and just hoping that this
process would go in our favor.
And so we were fortunate enough
to be able to go to some, you
(18:08):
know, some very high risk
pregnancy physicians and
everything ended up turning out
great.
Did you have any initial fears
in general? Did you feel like
you were ready?
No, not at all.
(18:29):
So I spent most of my 20s and
frankly far too long playing in
bands. I mean, I had a professional
job as you know but I also played
in bands and that was another part
of my life and my life up to that
point was really about me.
(18:51):
And especially selfish person in
the sense that I don't care about
other people. That's not it.
It's just I do really what I want.
I did what I wanted.
If I didn't want to go to
something, I didn't go to it.
If I didn't want to be a part of
something, I wasn't a part of it.
I just had a very, you know,
(19:11):
everything was focused around
what I wanted to do.
And so I wasn't sure how that
would work and I was very aware
of it that I was going to have to
give up a lot of things or at
least that's the way I looked at
it at that point.
And so I had no idea.
I thought it was going to be
(19:32):
potentially a terrible father.
And I was really counting on my
daughter being great without a
lot of intervention on my part.
So yeah, I had a lot of
apprehension for sure.
I didn't want to be a father or
anything in particular that
(19:53):
influenced the kind of father you
wanted to be.
No, not at all.
So, you know, just to get, I
guess, I guess maybe the point of
this is to get a little personal,
but my childhood was interesting
in that my parents were good
(20:15):
people.
They were very good people.
And so I would say that I was
very happy with the issues that
they dealt with very much in
front of my sister and I.
They did not get along so well
and my mom, I believe that she
had, you know, she had some
(20:36):
abuse in her history and she
struggled with some mental
things and she just screamed
and she had, was very much a
manly man who didn't express a
lot of emotions and just absorbed
the screaming for the most part.
(20:57):
So, it's hard to say that, you
know, a lot of people say, oh,
my parents, I looked up to my
parents and I have sort of the
inverse thing and I say that
with also wanting to respect
that I do believe that they did
the best they could with the
tools they had.
(21:19):
I don't have any, like, anger
towards them at this point for
anything, but they certainly were
not the role model that I wanted
to emulate.
So, if anything, it was the
antithesis of that.
I wanted my daughter to have an
incredibly calm, incredibly
grounded, you know, the opposite
(21:40):
of chaos.
I wanted to be able to provide
that.
And so, really, if anything, that
is what motivated how I thought
I would be approaching everything
and there wasn't a specific person
or specific people that I had in
my life that I really was able to
(22:01):
look to and say this is the way
it's done.
And I would say, I would add to
that, that I've wondered at times
in my life, and I think that's
the way I've been, I think,
I've been able to find out, I
think, that there are times when
(22:22):
I needed to be a little bit more
like my parents, but for whatever
reasons, I have taken the path,
exact opposite of what happened
in my childhood.
Fair enough.
I mean, you talked a little bit
about this shift to not being
able to do everything you wanted
to do when you wanted to do it,
but, yeah, certainly.
(22:46):
So, there are a lot of different
ways to answer this question.
I, Remy was born in a very
transitional period in my life.
I had just left a job that I'd
worked at for ten years, and I
had no idea what I wanted to do
with my life, but I think I had
(23:09):
a lot of salary as a package when
I left there, and I stayed home
with her for the first six months,
and I say stayed home.
I mean, the rowdy is I ended up
working for myself eventually,
and so I've sort of always been
home, but I was given this
(23:31):
opportunity where I got to stay
home, and even when my wife had
gone back to work, I was the
primary caregiver for a long time,
and that's a perspective that a
lot of dads don't get to have.
So, my life changed dramatically.
(23:52):
The way I thought of myself and
my identity changed dramatically,
because I'd gone from, you know,
what I thought in my head was
this cool guy who played music
and did all these cool things and
had this job and was important
to just a very real, like, stuck
(24:17):
in the present moment having to
attend to the needs of a child,
you know, eight hours a day,
twelve hours a day, and in my case,
she was very, she had a lot of
work to do, she was very vocal,
and that certainly took a toll,
(24:39):
but the way I saw myself changed
dramatically, and I have such an
appreciation for women who stay
home and women who care for the
children, because I know how
difficult it is.
It drove me nuts, for sure.
Yeah, so it's just a very
(25:03):
different story, and my identity
is this cool person kind of
changed, and I realized that I
was not, it wasn't about me, I
was not the center of the
universe, and in my perspective,
had to shift quite a bit just to
meet the demands of everything
that happened every day.
(25:23):
Anything from that time when
you were able to stay home with
her, that you realized this is a
thing that you're stepping into,
and life will never be the same.
Every moment, every single
moment, the, it's full of these
beautiful moments of recognizing
(25:48):
what an amazing thing we're
experiencing, I don't know what
it is, this whole consciousness
of, I remember when I first saw
her, just to step back for a
second, when I first saw her in
the hospital, thinking, I'm
(26:10):
gonna fail at this so bad, I
have no idea what I'm doing, and
I think my first words to her
were, please forgive me, I am,
I am going to screw this up
somehow, and I am not going to
be perfect, but I'm, you know,
more than loving you.
(26:31):
It, it changes everything, and so
you have those moments when
you're, when you're at home taking
care of a child, where it's
magical, and you realize how
special it is, and you realize
you've got to try to hold on to
this, and you don't want them to
get another second older, and
then you also have those moments
where, you know, she's been crying
(26:55):
for an hour straight, there's
nothing you can do to stop it,
you feel like a complete failure,
all you want to do is cry, you
know, nothing, it seems like you
can't do anything right, and it's
incredibly humbling, and, and
emotional, and, yeah, I felt all
the time, like, I don't, I don't
(27:18):
know if I can do this, and I, and
what, there's a lot of challenging
moments that, that pop up, you know,
as a, as a dad, is there any
particular moment that stands out
in your mind, and, and how did you
get through it?
(27:39):
Um, yeah, so I've had many, she is
incredibly strong-willed, I think
one of the surprising things that,
every child is, every child is
different, and, um, hopefully,
maybe my kid is an anomaly in
(28:01):
this situation, but she is
incredibly strong-willed, and I'm
lucky that she also seems to be a
really good person, uh, so that,
you know, she doesn't end up being
an evil dictator, but, um, I,
I think her will, at times, was
(28:25):
early on some of the most
challenging things. She was not
faced at all by, by any sort of
punitive action, so she could be
put in timeout, she could be, you
know, we, we could take anything
away, it didn't matter at all, she
would, she would scream for three
hours if she needed to, I mean,
that was just, that's just who she
is, so I think early on there was
(28:46):
kind of a recognition that's like,
there's a large percentage of this
kind of control over, um, but, um,
yeah, there have been many challenges,
there have been things that she's,
she's wanted to do, situations that
she's struggled with, that I've had
to try to figure out and overcome,
(29:08):
and I think the thing that, if, if I
had advice for people to, to give,
and again, everybody's situation is
different, everybody's child is
different, I just try to be present,
I try to listen, because she's,
she's 13 now, so we've been through
a lot of this stuff, I try to listen
(29:30):
well, I try to be respectful, I try
to treat her the way I would want to
be treated, um, and again, going
back to my situation with my parents,
that was, we had a very different
relationship, I was just told this is
the way it is, if you don't like it,
you, you're gonna get smacked, so, um,
just be respectful, and, just be kind,
(29:52):
and explain logically, like, my reasoning
for things, and sometimes that works,
sometimes it doesn't work, but we just
work it out and get through it, and, um,
there have certainly been times that
she's not happy with the outcome of
that, that situation, but, um, we've
at least had a very respectful
conversation about it, and she can go
(30:13):
screaming her room, or, or whatever
she needs to do, but yeah, many, um,
many, many times, we, we had a situation,
uh, not that long ago, over Snapchat,
she wants, um, she wants Snapchat,
she says all of her friends have
Snapchat, um, I, we are not allowing
(30:35):
her to have Snapchat, uh, at this time,
um, because I, I think the last time I
opened it, it's gonna sound very old
I open up Snapchat, and you look at, like,
the news features on the Snapchat, and
the first thing, uh, that I pull up
when we're looking at it together, as
she's making her argument, is, like,
you know, twerk out nation, or something
(30:56):
like that, I'm like, okay, well, you're,
you know, you're, you're 12, we're not,
you don't need this, this isn't, um,
and so we found, this is gonna be a plug,
I don't know if, if you've got sponsors,
but you should get a sponsor called Ziggazoo,
because as a joke, one of the things I do
is, I joke around a lot, uh, with her,
and I found this app called Ziggazoo,
(31:17):
which is basically Snapchat, but for, like,
ages four and up, and so I, I told her
we could, um, you know, we could
compromise, and she could have Ziggazoo,
and I've made this whole routine about Ziggazoo,
and she hates it, she's really angry,
um, but, uh, but I told her, you know,
she just turned, in fact, um,
Friday was her birthday, she just turned 13,
(31:40):
and I told her, you know, again,
like, you can have Ziggazoo, it's time,
you can have Ziggazoo, you can,
you can honk me on Ziggazoo,
uh, I don't know what they call it on Ziggazoo,
but I, I want it to be, I want it to be,
uh, called honking, uh, so yeah,
all of these things are, you know,
incredibly challenging situations,
and my approach is just try to,
(32:02):
try to treat your kid the way
you would want to be treated, but understanding
at the end of the day that you have,
you know, you have the, the final say,
and they're not gonna like that,
but it is what it is.
Yeah. Have you had any, any mentor
or guide, anybody who's helped you
through this process?
(32:23):
It's just not your own.
Yeah, 100%, I mean, no, not really,
and this is why I think, this is why I think,
I don't, it will be interesting to
hear, you know, maybe in 20 years,
or when I'm, well, I don't know how,
how I'll hear it when I'm dead, but,
but it would be interesting to know
(32:45):
her perception of her childhood at some point,
uh, because I do fear a lot, like,
that I'm, that maybe I am a horrible parent
because I'm, I'm, because of the way I approach it,
because I'm too, I am very conversational,
I am very like, let's sit down and talk about this,
let me understand why you feel this way,
(33:07):
let me understand why you're wanting to do this,
let me understand, you know, what's going on,
uh, that has led to this situation,
and I mean, we have a lot of deep,
deep conversation about things,
and sometimes I think, you know,
maybe I'm a little too far to that,
uh, on that end of the spectrum,
(33:28):
and not enough of just like, well,
because I'm your parent.
Now, shut up and go do the thing, right?
So, I joke with her every now and then,
and I'm a terrible, uh, that,
that sometimes I think I'm a terrible dad
because I let her do, um, certain things,
or I, or I let her, um, have certain things.
Uh, but no, I don't really have anybody
(33:51):
who I've, who I've modeled anything after,
um, other than just my weird kind of eclectic personality,
and even that is, um, again, I don't know,
it'd be very interesting to find out what she thinks.
I've got, so I do, um, music,
obviously I've played music for a long time,
(34:11):
and I do video, uh, photography,
and all kinds of things,
and so she's just surrounded with all of this,
uh, gear all the time.
There's always just like, gear everywhere,
uh, and I think if anything,
that will be like a core memory of her childhood,
of just like, oh my God,
why does my dad have all of the stuff everywhere all the time?
(34:32):
Like there's so many little gadgets, um, everywhere.
So, um, I try to keep her engaged in a lot of that,
and over the years some of it has, has took,
and some of it hasn't.
Uh, but as far as just, you know,
parenting style and that sort of thing, man,
I'm, I'm totally winging it.
Has Remi ever really surprised you
(34:55):
and somehow become your mentor
or taught you something about life?
Yeah, but usually by saying my words back to me, right?
Um, yeah, I, again,
I think there is a percentage of,
you know, we could debate the whole nature-nurture thing.
(35:17):
I am much more on the nature side of things,
um, where I, I believe that a good percentage
of, uh, her personality was baked in.
Like I don't, I don't know that I had control over most of it,
uh, to be honest.
And it's just, in a lot of cases, luck.
(35:38):
I mean, she is someone who seemingly just has,
she's very, um, like I said, strong-willed,
but also she has a bit of wisdom about her
that she knows right and wrong in a way that,
that, you know, maybe she's, she's, um, seen demonstrated,
but for the most part, it's just part of who she is.
(35:59):
She's, she's very much a rule follower.
And, um, there, and I'm, and I'm,
I was that way as a child, but as I got older,
I'm less and less that way, you know, you get cynical,
you realize kind of some of the ridiculous things
in society and, and, um, that's been a funny thing
(36:20):
where we will have situations where I will break a rule
and she points it out to me and has to sort of redirect me
back to what she believes needs to happen.
And it happens a lot, happens a lot in the car, for sure.
Um, it happens a lot.
We had a, we had a situation where, um, you know,
(36:43):
we're at a grocery store and a woman,
we had just pulled up into the parking spot
and a woman, um, took her cart, her shopping cart
and just pushed it in front of my car and just left it there.
And there was a rack like right next to our cars
where she could put the shopping cart.
So I got out and I had a conversation with her about it.
And my daughter was absolutely mortified, absolutely mortified.
(37:06):
And when I got back in the, in the lady, like it didn't end well.
Um, the lady like flipped me off and drove off, right?
Um, but I get back in the car and remember,
he's like, dad, that was, that was incredibly stupid.
Like, why did you, you do that?
And I explained her and I, and I'm not in the wrong.
I, I said, look, we just had a conversation.
(37:28):
I just explained to her that what if no one ever returned their carts?
What, there's a cart return right there.
You're leaving this cart out here.
It could smash into anybody's cars.
Why not just do the right thing and put the cart up?
Like I am not in the wrong.
And she's like, yeah, maybe, but what if she had a gun?
What if she decided to hit you with the car?
(37:50):
Like she goes through all of these things.
And so in that sense, um, she definitely has been, um, kind of a counterbalance
to my, uh, self-righteous sense of justice, uh, at times for sure.
And I really appreciate it.
It's funny and I appreciate it.
(38:11):
Have you ever had a, uh, a moment where you just felt completely lost or overwhelmed?
And how'd you find your way back?
Um, yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, I would say.
I would say there are times where you just don't know.
(38:39):
There's just, you just don't know the right answer.
Um, we have a couple situations and I, I, if she ever hears this or this ever, you know,
um, I hope she doesn't mind me sharing this, but, uh, I found out when she was about two,
I started noticing some strange behaviors, uh, some compulsive kind of behaviors where
(39:05):
she would, she would do, you know, different things like she would lick her hands or she
would do a certain thing with her eyes or whatever.
And I started being concerned that, that maybe she had autism and we had gone to her pediatrician.
The pediatrician said, no, just, it's, you know, she's going to grow out of this, no big deal.
(39:26):
Uh, and then those behaviors just keep, kept changing and, uh, in some cases getting worse.
And this went on for a couple of years and eventually, um, we got a diagnosis of Tourette's.
And I didn't know, you know, what, what we know of Tourette's is unfortunately what they show on TV,
(39:48):
which is people yelling cuss words and uncontrollably, um, you know, shouting vulgar things.
And the vast majority of people with Tourette's, that is, that is not at all what, what goes on.
It's mainly just, um, ticks in their, in their body.
They have facial ticks and hand ticks and all kinds of, you know, things that they do.
(40:09):
Um, it's just a neurological condition that, that, um, compels someone to do these certain things.
And it, whenever there's a health issue with your, your kid and there's not like a clear solution of what,
you know, okay, we do this and it's fixed, it's agonizing.
(40:33):
And I, you know, you, did I feel, I felt lost.
I mean, I felt, I had no idea how to help her.
It's the most horrible feeling of this, this person that you love more than anything in the world,
not being able to fix something and looking at a situation and realizing like this isn't their fault,
(40:56):
like this thing that's happening to them.
They didn't do anything to deserve this.
And, and, you know, and I'm talking about Tourette's.
I mean, I can't imagine, you know, someone going through, you know, their child having cancer or leukemia or something horrific like that.
I mean, there are just these, these moments where anything that comes up health related, you just realize how helpless at times, at times you can be.
(41:22):
And in that particular situation, I mean, obviously we just, we went with the best, the best advice we could at the time with healthcare people.
And as always, I spent a lot of time talking to her about it and talking about how she felt about these things.
(41:43):
And we were able eventually to get her to a psychologist as well, who helped provide like a framework for redirecting some of the worst ticks.
So that let's say she had an eye roll thing that she did.
(42:05):
She rolls her eyes, then she can push her tongue against the top of her mouth instead, so that it sort of redirects that and it's a less disruptive, less embarrassing situation for her.
Because it got to the point where she was doing this out in public.
Yeah.
So that was incredibly challenging situation.
(42:28):
And you just work through it.
You just, you know, it's like solving any problem, except when it's your kid, you just don't give up.
You never, you never give up.
And so today, I'm happy to report that she is, she stopped taking medication about a year ago for it.
(42:51):
And her ticks are very manageable.
She still does have some things that she deals with, mainly when she's, when she's very stressed out.
But there's a percentage of people who grow out of it and never have to deal with it again.
And we're certainly hoping that that is the path that she's on because it has definitely subsided.
(43:19):
But yeah, any parent going through any sort of health situation, you know, my heart goes out to you because it is, there's nothing in the world.
Like the feeling of helplessness when you're dealing with something that you feel like a child did nothing to deserve.
(43:40):
So yeah, you just, you do the best you can, you keep going.
Absolutely.
That's it.
And thank you for sharing that.
That was, that was great.
Yeah.
You know, fatherhood is full of tough decisions.
Any particular tough decision you've had to make as a dad and...
Yeah.
(44:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, many.
Besides Snapchat.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, again, I don't know, I don't know how personal we want to get here.
I mentioned this a little bit, but her mother and I are not together.
And without question, that is, that was the most difficult situation of my life.
(44:28):
Her mother's a wonderful human being and we just were not, our communication styles were so different.
And we were so different that it got to the point where I had to decide what kind of experience do I want my daughter to have growing up?
(44:53):
Do I want her to believe that this is a normal situation, a normal relationship?
Do I want her to have this as the role model?
Or, you know, is there something else that would be, that would be better?
Or is, is that something else that I'm thinking of really going to be the thing that destroys her and, and really is her villain origin story?
(45:22):
And, you know, millions of people go through the same thing, certainly not alone, but that was the hardest decision I ever made.
And I, you know, the one thing I made clear, I didn't care about anything other than making sure that I could still see her and be with her.
(45:46):
And, and luckily, that is the situation that came out of this, that we have joint custody and, and we work well together, I think, in that, in that area.
So, yeah, that was absolutely devastating, absolutely devastating for me, for her. And I can only hope that she understands that I did it, not just for my own sanity, but because I wanted the best life for her.
(46:26):
And I wanted her to not see two people be completely passive, aggressive with each other for the rest of her life.
Fair enough. It's a lot of responsibility.
Not the decision.
Yeah, it's a lot. And I'm not like, you know, anybody who's in a situation, you know, you've got to make the decision that you think is best for you and your, your, your family.
(46:56):
But for us, I think it was, it was the best way to go. And, you know, we have had conversation about it. And, and, and she will, she has said on many occasions, yeah, like, you know, you and mom are just incredibly different people.
And we really are. And, and I think that's in some ways that's a benefit to right, like, she gets a certain perspective on things for me and she gets a different perspective from from her mother.
(47:23):
That's great. I think that she's a good mix of both of those things because I don't, I don't know that I don't know which one's right or wrong, or that it even matters.
It's just, you know, good that she has two very different people giving her two very different perspectives on a lot of things, I think.
(47:50):
Is there anything that you, you believed about the whole parenting experience that has completely changed at this point?
Well, I think that I think when you don't have children, why I know this because I, or at least maybe I was arrogant enough to think this, you think you know a lot about it, you think that it's going to,
(48:18):
not that it will be easy, but that it's just not as difficult as it is at times.
And especially, you know, I had a friend who had children early in life, and I never could quite relate because I always thought, well, what's the problem?
What's the, you know, what's the challenge here? Why is this a struggle?
(48:40):
So I think there's a tendency when you don't have children to just think that it's not a big deal. And I think, you know, being a parent, going through that change,
it's just such a fundamental shift that, you know, you have to, I don't know, abandon the way you thought about things and admit that you don't know everything and admit that there are going to be times when you're going to be wrong
(49:16):
and admit that there are going to be times that you make the wrong decision and you just have to try and do the best that you can and with the tools that you have.
And I don't know, does that answer the question?
Yeah, I think so.
How about a time when you feel like, I don't know, you really leveled up, you ran into the mushroom and you got superpowers as a father?
(49:47):
I tried to make a Mario Kart thing, but I don't know.
Right, right, right, right, I get it.
We love Mario Kart, by the way, we play lots of Mario Kart, have played Mario Kart, she's much more into Roblox, had gotten much more into Roblox.
Leveled up as a father, I don't know.
(50:09):
I think that there have been times that I have worked with her a lot and been very proud of her putting in the effort.
I've really tried to emphasize that it's not always the outcome and it's not, you know, it's not like, oh, you accomplish this because you're smart,
(50:34):
but you accomplish this because you set your mind to it and you put your effort into it and you worked really hard and you achieved this.
We just had a situation with math.
She's always been a straight A kid and she switched schools this year and she's got a new math teacher and she's doing great in every other subject,
(50:59):
but for some reason this year in math, she has been struggling a little bit and we have really had to work on that,
which has been a challenge for me too, right, because I haven't done that stuff in however many years, dozens of years.
So learning seventh grade math has not been a treat for me.
(51:22):
Having to go back and, you know, redo all of that stuff.
I don't know, I don't think my parents ever helped me with math, or at least I don't remember that being a thing and from middle school on,
but I don't know what I would do without chatGBT to be honest with you.
Every single thing I have to be like chatGBT, talk to me like I'm a seventh grader and help me figure this out and it does.
(51:51):
And then I'm able to work with her and show her that.
So I would say that being able to spend the time with her to get her to see the value and working hard towards something,
and I say all of that leading up to this, she had really struggled with it and she just texted me this morning a picture of,
(52:14):
we've got a little app where the teacher posts her grades and she made, she took a makeup test because she was out with a flu on her birthday on Friday.
She went in early, I took her in early on Friday morning at seven o'clock in the morning to take this makeup test that she was sure she was going to fail and she made a hundred on it.
Oh wow, that's awesome.
Like, yeah, I'm amazed but I am thrilled for her because she really needed it.
(52:40):
She really, not the grade, I mean she needed the grade but she really needed the win.
You know, she needed to see that all of this stuff pays off.
And so I think there are moments like that where, you know, spending that time, investing that time,
making sure that they understand that the process is the point and, you know, working hard towards something that you want to achieve and then achieving it is a valuable lesson.
(53:12):
That's excellent.
I'm definitely going to remember that chat GPT trick when, when homework comes to be.
It's, you've got a few years so it might be something, it might be something completely different.
But you're probably just going to have your own role at that point, right?
Teachers will be gone because that'll be dismantled pretty soon.
(53:34):
Yeah, pretty much.
And we'll just have robots that the teacher or children.
Probably.
Speaking of technology, if you could, you know, go back in time and or you had a TARDIS or something to that effect,
find your younger self before you became a dad.
(53:55):
What would you say?
I would say a lot of things.
I would mainly investment advice and career.
But I think be kinder to yourself.
(54:19):
Is a big thing.
I would.
I read a lot of books before like leading up to her arrival.
And I can't tell you that I used any of those books.
I can't.
I can't.
I honestly can't say that there was much in that that helped me at all outside of being fearful that I wasn't doing the right thing.
(54:48):
So I'm not saying don't be educated on, you know, basic.
The basic needs of a child.
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying don't beat yourself up over every single, you know, you read this book and it tells you absolutely don't do this.
(55:10):
You read another book.
It says absolutely don't do that.
Don't beat yourself up over all of that stuff.
Just try to be the best person you can be.
And be that for your child.
You know, if you I tried to instill this in her to and it's very simple and this is not new.
(55:33):
It's just treat other people the way you want to be treated.
That's it.
You know, if almost every situation in life, I think can come down to treat other people the way you want to be treated.
And if you do that, then you're doing the best you can.
And I would tell myself that just do the best you can.
(55:58):
Treat her the way you want to be treated.
Don't beat yourself up so much over every little thing and whether or not you're screwing this up or whether or not you're screwing that up.
But you know, I mean, you got to put forth effort, right?
You can't just be like, whatever.
But be kind to yourself and know that, you know, as long as you're a good person and you're doing what you believe you're right with to the best of your ability, I think you'll find your kids are going to respect that.
(56:32):
I think that would be great advice.
When you think about Remy as an adult and looking back at her childhood, what do you hope that she remembers most about you as a father?
Oh, I don't know.
(56:56):
Maybe my abs.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I hope that I so the serious answer would just be that I hope that she understands that I did the best I could with what I had that that I was not always perfect.
(57:24):
And no one's ever going to always be perfect and life isn't perfect.
But we all, you know, if we're trying and we're kind, we're doing the best we can with with with what we've got.
And I hope that she understands that and appreciates that and that she takes that into her own life.
(57:46):
And the other thing I'd say is my work ethic.
I haven't talked a lot about this, but but I work a lot.
And I do travel quite a bit.
And I've worried about that quite a bit, right?
Like, you know, am I missing this?
Am I missing that?
And I hope that she understands how, you know, that a lot of what I do, if not all of what I do is for her.
(58:16):
And making sure that she has the best life she can have and that it that it, you know, kills me when I do have to be gone.
But, but yeah, I hope that she knows that that there is something to be gained from from having a strong work ethic.
And just that she knows that I am doing the best I can.
(58:43):
Well, Joe, thank you so much for your time and just one last thing.
Anything else if you had to you've got hopefully an audience here where we can talk to other fathers who might be looking for guidance, any sage wisdom to leave them with?
(59:06):
Well, other than Zigazoo, which I, which I recommend for any anyone looking to get their their child away from Snapchat.
I think, you know, a lot of the things I've already said, I think just really try to be kind to yourself and try to listen to your kid and respect who they are becoming and take an interest
(59:35):
in who they are becoming.
My daughter has been so many things in her life is 13 years old and we've been through so many iterations of her.
I've heard it said before that like you, you know, every year you meet a new person and it really to some degree is true.
And you just need to be present for that.
(59:57):
And it's been a struggle for me sometimes because I was really attached to the artist.
Remy, she went through a phase where where she was an incredible artist.
I mean, she could just draw anything.
And I was, you know, everybody was like, OK, this is what she is.
This is this is this.
And just in the last few years, you know, she's she's now a teenager.
(01:00:18):
She has her opinions about things.
She's very interested in being cool.
And she is not so interested anymore in being an artist, which has kind of broken my heart.
But you've got to get through that and just meet the person she is at that moment and understand the person, you know, that your child is at that moment and the things that they're going through.
(01:00:43):
And and, you know, be supportive and, you know, obviously you got to make sure that you're steering them down the right path and all of that good stuff.
But just be present for who they are at every moment in the stage because it will change.
All right.
I would say that qualifies as stage advice.
(01:01:05):
Thank you so much, Joe.
And you have a great, great afternoon.
Yeah, thank you very much, Rob.
Thanks for inviting me.
(01:01:41):
I just want to tell you a little bit about my my next project that I'm working on.
One of the things that I've always liked to do, either with a partner or even with my kids, I remember fondly playing games.
I think family game nights are the perfect opportunity to make memories, your laughs.
(01:02:10):
Scrabble has always been really important to me and my significant others.
I play with my first wife and I also play with my wife today.
And we are highly competitive when we play sometimes, at some points we were playing seven games a day.
Can't really do that toddler, but I think, you know, it's it.
(01:02:38):
Gaming is a lot of fun.
And I've always loved chess, not particularly good at it, but I've loved it.
And I've always been fond of the game go and always wanted to really learn go and make that part of who I am.
(01:03:06):
And I think that the feeling that I get, you know, when spending that time together and, you know, the conversation you have and the
competitiveness that you feel, I just think playing board games and getting out of the staring at your phone mentality for passing the time, I think is a very positive, positive thing.
(01:03:41):
So I've always wanted to learn go and so I went on this in a researching, you know, in a partner for go and I think my wife will will join me.
But I also thought, you know, this is something I could play with safe.
This is something that I could incorporate into our relationship. And, you know, in other cultures, they really learning go as part of that sort of preschool, early elementary school time frame.
(01:04:22):
And it teaches so many different aspects of strategy, problem solving, thinking ahead, decision making.
I think that it has an influence on long term success.
I mean, you can't, you can't ignore it. You know, Albert Einstein, great physicist, developer of the theory of relativity was a was a go player, you know, interested in the patterns and the fact that there's infinite possibilities.
(01:05:05):
So he was known to enjoy go. You know, the Sun Tzu, the author of Art of War, required reading in business, Alan Turing, the father of modern computing and AI was a go player.
(01:05:29):
Peter Thiel, co co founder of PayPal, investor in Facebook, AI researcher.
Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla Space X, open AI, arguably shadow president.
You know, you don't have to agree with his politics, but he has referenced go in his discussions about AI, strategic thinking, long term vision.
(01:05:59):
He thinks breaking down problems into their fundamental truths aligns with goes methodological and adaptive approach to problem solving.
The battle between human and I and go has influenced his views on the future of artificial intelligence.
(01:06:21):
Anyway, so from military leaders to physicists, AI pioneers and entrepreneurs, go has been a powerful tool for shaping the minds of influential figures.
The game's emphasis on strategy, patience, long term planning makes it a perfect metaphor for success in life, whether that's business or innovation.
(01:06:49):
So I made this decision that I'm going to do this with my with my daughter. I'm going to make this part of our relationship.
And is she too young? She's about, you know, she's about to turn three.
You know, so I did a little research. I'm not an expert go player.
(01:07:15):
I've had a board for a few years because I really wanted to learn, but then other priorities took over and blah, blah, blah.
Same old, same old.
I've got a few hobbies that are sitting waiting for me to get reinvigorated.
(01:07:40):
This I'm sure you do as well.
So anyway, I started researching and really found that the time when Japanese and Chinese cultures start to incorporate goal, go into the classroom and into, you know, it's four or five years old.
(01:08:05):
All right, so I mean, sage is a little early, but I would argue with you that that she has, you know, proud father here, a pretty good attention span and pretty good interest in this type of stuff.
I don't want to flood her too early, but I want her to catch, you know, a desire to learn, you know, and maybe it takes, you know, two years or three years before her interest becomes this thing that we do together.
(01:08:45):
So I started thinking about, OK, well, I want to teach this to her and teach it in a meaningful way.
And so I looked for resources.
This parent would, you know, whether their kid is five years old or three years old.
(01:09:06):
And I really couldn't find much.
I have a book on Go for Beginners, definitely not targeted at toddlers or young people.
So I wanted to create some that would guide our journey.
(01:09:29):
And so I'm creating a few different things. The first thing that I'm creating is a book.
And I want it to be a book that I can share with sage at this age.
(01:09:51):
She won't understand it completely, but I want it to be a story about maturing and learning and a journey to understand the true nature of harmony and thinking ahead.
So the name of the title of the book or the working title of the book is The Way of the Stones.
(01:10:16):
It's Sage's Journey, something about Go. I'll figure that out later.
She loves puzzles. She loves stories. She's always searching for wisdom in the world around her.
And a village elder talks to her about the game of Go and how it teaches strategy, balance, and patience.
(01:10:45):
And how this lights a fire in sage's heart.
And she seeks to find where she can develop wisdom.
The village elder says at the Temple of Black and White, where the game was first taught to great emperors and warriors of old,
(01:11:09):
and sets her up to face challenges along the way. And she sets off basically on this hero's journey,
carrying only a small Go board and a pouch filled with black and white stones.
And as she ventures, she meets several characters who teach her different aspects of the game, patience and foresight, looking how to control the board
(01:11:43):
and to take defense as a form of attack and waiting for your moment as part of the victory.
And to understand that in order to win, you also have to give and take.
(01:12:04):
And you have to know when to fight and when to let go and how to share the board and not necessarily focus too much on destroying your opponent in the process.
And when she reaches this Temple of Black and White, and she has these lessons that she's learned from these characters along the way,
(01:12:30):
she's going to find this new wisdom of the stones. And now it's her task to share it with others.
And you know, from that day forward, she really comes the mentor, the teacher in all of this.
(01:12:52):
I wanted to incorporate a little bit of history of the game, but also have a lesson plan that could be used and I'll focus on a child that's maybe a little older than Sage is right now.
And maybe we spend more time in sort of the first couple of phases where it's just about familiarizing yourself with the Bulverd and the stones and basic concepts.
(01:13:21):
Before you get into capturing territories and, you know, we can, I can spend a lot of time with Sage just on those simple things and just familiarizing and peaking her interest around the game.
(01:13:43):
And I just, I just think that having looked for a resource that would help a parent learn alongside a child and to introduce this 4,000 year old game to a new generation,
and they're not being a resource out there. I thought, well, there are people out there who would find that interesting and understand that,
(01:14:22):
you know, this has been a vital part of the aristocrat scholarly life. It's been played by emperors and generals and philosophers.
And, you know, it reached Japan in the seventh century. You know, it was refined and elevated to new art form.
(01:14:52):
It really has become institutionalized and schools are dedicated to training master players and the games continue to evolve. And in the 20th century, it's really gained international recognition, leading to tournaments worldwide.
(01:15:13):
I remember as a tech guy, I remember, you know, how significant it was when the computer first beat a master go player and how that was, you know, the start of this holy I revolution.
(01:15:42):
So my goal is over the next few weeks to finish the book, The Way of the Stones. I'll release that. I'll talk a little bit about it when it comes out.
But, you know, I think there's somebody out there who's going to want to go on this journey with me and take their three, four, five, six, seven year old and introduce them to something that has rich, rich history and is really a cultural treasure.
(01:16:24):
And maybe that balance and wisdom that you get, that it's so simple, but at the same time has this infinite depth.
You know, and it's enjoyed by millions around the world and doesn't plug into the wall and it's not on a TV screen and teaches respect and patience.
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But those are things that I think are critical to success. And they hopefully will give, you know, my daughter a little bit of an advantage in her life if she learns these fundamentals early.
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And we'll see. I'm not going to push it. I'm not going to overwhelm her with trying to learn and to be a good player.
What I want is a spark of interest. And if she shows a spark of interest, then I'll, you know, I'll nurture that over time.
And I think I share this decision that I'm going to play with her and to introduce her to this. I share it because I thought it was a unique thing that my mind went there and went there to a very long term strategy.
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There's no a me payoff. There's no, you know, it's going to take a long time before I see if this works or not.
And I do know one thing. I don't want her buried in an iPhone when she's in middle school. I don't want her life to be completely defined by technology.
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Sometimes the most incredible things that we have developed as humans have very little to do with technology.
And I think we lose sight of that in this in this world of everybody growing up, never knowing a world without Google or a world without phone in every pocket.
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And those individuals, I think there's a risk that they lose the value of all of those things that the human culture or human experience has created that involve why focus a lot.
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And if we lose that we lose who we are.
And so we'll see. I'll give updates.
May even do a couple of spots with my lessons and see how that works out.
But you know in the next next month or so I'll release the book and that'll be the first step in this go journey.
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And I look forward to it and I look forward to your feedback. Rob at SageDad.life.
And let me know. I'll talk to you soon.
There is something truly special about reading to a child.
It's more than just words on a page. It's laughter, connection and the little moments that turn into lifelong memories.
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Whether it's a silly story that gets them giggling or a bedtime favorite they ask for night after night.
Books have a way of bringing us closer in this segment. We're going to dive into some of the best and most read books in our house.
Because stories that we share today shape the love of reading for a lifetime.
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Okay, we're going to talk about a couple of these books.
One is incredibly self serving.
It is the first book that I have launched in hopefully a series of books that are designed to react and enhance experiences that I have with Sage.
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So this particular book is called New Horizons for Pluto.
And it really came about from working with Sage on planets and pretending to be astronauts and pretending to blast off every night as she goes to sleep.
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And we talked about the planets and my generation Pluto was a planet. Sorry, it was.
And as I described the various planets I included Pluto in my talk.
And you know she told me one night that Pluto was her favorite planet.
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And so I wanted to really for my own education and for hers to really understand what happened with Pluto and why and what we know now and what we know then.
And so I collected this information and I put it together in a story.
A story that's founded in kind of the premise of being cut from a baseball team.
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And how Pluto rebounds from that and really finds his own space among the dwarf worlds.
And I think it I think it worked out pretty good.
There's a recipe in an art project in the back of the book.
It's available on Amazon again that's New Horizons for Pluto.
So I hope you enjoy it.
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The next one is is very very special.
This is called the Honey Bee.
I purchased the Honey Bee from an airport bookstore for the one period of time where I was away while my daughter was in the NICU.
And I wanted her to have something special.
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I used to I used to buy my older daughter piggy banks every time I went traveling with the name of the place that I went to.
And that was really special for me and I could bring that back to her.
So I wanted Sage to have something from that trip.
She was obviously too young to completely understand that I was thinking of her.
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But we got this book and it's called the Honey Bee.
And it's from Kristen Hall and Isabella Arsenal Arsenal.
And I'm assuming that Isabella was the illustrator although it's not 100% clear from the credits.
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It's by Little Simon Press and it is basically a poem.
I'll read the first couple of pages.
A field, a tree, a climate, and a sea.
For miles around, all around you grow wild and free, flowers.
But then what's that?
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And basically the book goes through and the journey of this bee to find nectar and to collect it and to inform the hive and convert the nectar to honey and all the wonderful things that bees do.
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And we have read this book countless times.
And I attend at night to have a problem with it because some of the type is a little small and my eyes are a little old.
And my wife doesn't have that problem because she's read that so many times that she's got it memorized and can really recite it without the book.
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It's very, very special to us.
It's one of those board books that has felt the wear and tear of use.
And I fully intend to get another copy that I can hand down to my daughter so that if she is lucky enough to have children someday she can share it with them as well.
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So I highly recommend it.
Again, this is the Honey Bee and it is a wonderful, wonderful read.
All right, that is all for today.
And that was a lot.
I kind of ran over my a lot of time, but I just want to let you know that this has been really fun to share.
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I hope that you enjoyed something from this if not me from the wonderful stories from Joe.
I do think that as we get deeper and deeper into this podcast, we will explore different themes together and we will learn how to be better parents, how to be better people.
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And that's my hope.
And until then until next week.
You have a great, great life.