April 21, 2025 • 35 mins
Vikram Sharma and Deepanshu Goel founded Wify in 2020 to solve a big e-commerce and in-store pain point facing the Ikeas and Amazons of the 1 billion plus population - Not used to self-assembling and self-installing furniture and appliances at home, Indian consumers simply bought less. Building on their experience in larger companies, Vikram and Deepanshu built a tech platform to connect consumers, brands, and their army of Wify-trained professionals. Today Wify seamlessly connects all three, increasing brand sales, customer satisfaction, and creating skill-development and career paths (and income) for previously low-skilled people.
WIth just $6 million in angel and VC financing, Wify will be scaling 10x in the coming 3-5 years, growing from 3000 to 30000 professionals and from $6 million to - well you can do the math.
Notables:
- "Do it faster, sooner. Don't wait to get it so perfect."
- Most of the world is NOT a DIY world, and although the Indian market is huge, they anticipate expaning to Africa, Latin America and other markets.
- India, once conservative and venture-leary, is changing, and it is easier to recruit top talent, raise capital, and generate shareholder liquidity.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 00 (00:00):
Hi, this is Dan Isenberg, and welcome to the
latest episode of Scale-UpPodcasts.
Remember, Scale-Up Podcastsbrings you examples, hints,
experts, people who have scaledup their companies beyond a few
million dollars.
And these are companies thatcome from all over the world.
They may not be your so-calledtraditional ventures, whatever
(00:22):
that means, but they'recompanies founded by people who
are determined to grow theirbusiness as much as possible.
And I am fortunate to have withme the two co-founders of a
company in India called Wify.
The two people with me areVikram Sharma and
Deepanshu Goel.
And they'll tell you all aboutthemselves and all about Wify,
(00:46):
but I do have to disclose thatI'm a shareholder in Wifi or
will be soon a shareholder inWify.
And let's just get that out ofthe way.
I'm obviously excited to bepart of this journey.
So let me start by just askingboth of you, well, each of you,
I should say, just in short,short, who is Vikram and who is
(01:11):
Deepanshu?
And let's start with you,Vikram.
Who are you, short version?
Speaker 02 (01:16):
I'm an entrepreneur, have been building companies
for the last 15 years.
I met Dan when I was a studentat Harvard Business School.
And I remember asking him aquestion, whether it's better to
be a venture capitalist firstor an entrepreneur first.
And Dan gave me a bunch ofideas, which took me about 10
(01:36):
years to get started with.
Speaker 00 (01:40):
Okay, we'll circle back on some of those.
Deepanshu, how about yourself?
Who are you?
Speaker 01 (01:47):
I keep it shorter.
I'm an engineer , a problemsolver and a business or a
startup enthusiast.
I love discussing businessideas and to Dan's point, trying
to understand how can we growthem.
That's what I'm trying to dohere at Wify.
Speaker 00 (02:05):
And physically, where are you located right now?
Speaker 01 (02:08):
We are both based out of Bombay.
And right now we are at a Wifyoffice in different locations.
Speaker 00 (02:18):
Wifi is located in Bombay, Mumbai, India.
Correct.
And it's always been there.
And it's focused on the Indianmarket.
It's the first Indian venture,by the way, that we've hosted on
ScaleApp Podcast.
So that's one of the questionswe're going to be talking about.
I hope we'll get into what aresome of the opportunities and
challenges of building a scaledbusiness in India.
(02:39):
But now let me go through thesame exercise with you about
describing who is or what isWify.
And I'll get your version,Vikram.
But then Deepanshu, it may bethe same, but if it's at all
different in any way, which itcould be, your version as well.
What is Wify, Vikram?
So
Speaker 02 (02:59):
Wifi is a post-purchase services company.
India is not a DIY country,unlike the West.
So in India, consumers buyanything from furniture to
appliances to whatever productthey buy for the home.
We provide everything.
installation and after-salesservices for those products.
So for brands, we work allmajor brands like Ikea, Amazon,
(03:24):
Panasonic, any brand sellingconsumer durables, we take care
of the post-purchase servicesfor them.
Speaker 00 (03:33):
Okay, well, we'll get into what the rationale for
that is a little bit later.
Deepanshu, what's your versionof what is...
Speaker 01 (03:43):
Vikram spoke more about the demand side, so I'll
speak more about the supplyside.
I think one thing that has beenvery important and is very
important for both Vikram and meis to be able to create jobs.
So at Wifi, we have been ableto help the technicians that are
working for us upskill, improvetheir productivity and
(04:06):
consequently the income thatthey will be able to generate
for their families and have abetter living.
Speaker 00 (04:11):
So it's interesting.
It's like you have differentstakeholders in this Wify
community.
It's not just the shareholders.
It's not just the executives.
It's not just the customers,but it's also the employees.
And so why don't you describethe pain point or opportunity
that Wify, that you see in Wifyand that led you to create the
(04:34):
company?
Go ahead, Vikram.
Sure.
Speaker 02 (04:38):
Yeah, so the As you rightly said, Dan, there are
multiple stakeholders.
Let's talk about three mostimportant stakeholders.
The first one is the brands.
The second is the endconsumers.
And the third is thetechnicians, the employees or
the workers who are working onour platform or in the company.
All three have different painpoints.
(04:59):
The brand's pain point is theycannot sell a product if they
cannot provide after-salesservice or installation
services.
in the country because India,unlike the West, is not a DIY
country.
Somebody will not buy a cabinetand come home and fix it
themselves.
They want somebody to do theinstallation.
Speaker 00 (05:19):
We're also talking
Speaker 02 (05:21):
about well-known brands.
Can you give us just anexample?
It could be a brand or aretailer like IKEA could be an
example of a brand and Amazonwould be an example of a
retailer who could be sellingany consumer durable product
which requires some installationat home.
So those are the common issuesfor the brand and the consumer,
which is providing service.
(05:42):
And then the third set ofstakeholders, which is the
employees or the technicians orthe workers working on the
platform, their pain point isthey often do not have the
skills to provide this service.
They are traditionalcarpenters, for example, who do
not understand an IKEA product.
So we solve that problem byupskilling them, as Deepanshu
(06:03):
mentioned.
Speaker 00 (06:05):
So why don't you give us...
Some of the numbers, we'll comeback to this later, but how
many people are we talking aboutin terms of the employees and
the numbers of brands thatyou're dealing with?
And if you can tell us anythingabout the numbers of revenues
that you've achieved, tell usthat as well.
Speaker 02 (06:25):
Sure.
So as of today, we have morethan 200 brands that we serve.
We are serving 40,000 consumerhomes every month.
which is 40,000 uniqueservices, which could be
installation or service ormaintenance requests.
We have 3,000 people workingwith us on our platform.
(06:46):
And our monthly revenue at thismoment is about $550,000 per
month.
So a little over half a milliondollars of monthly revenue.
Speaker 00 (07:00):
And so...
Let's come back to the painpoint.
So there is a pain point at thebrand side, right?
That has to do withfulfillment.
Now let's go to the otherstakeholders.
The pain point, obviously, orsomehow you're providing benefit
also for these 3,000 andsomeday 30,000, let's say,
(07:21):
workers.
What's the pain point for them?
What need do you address?
Speaker 01 (07:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I think for them, India, ifyou look at the population, is
a very youth-driven country.
So, as a country, lack theinfrastructure to be able to
train and upskill theseblue-collar workers.
If you compare this to, let'ssay, US or the Western world,
(07:54):
you will have proper trainingcollege courses for these
technicians let's say anelectrician a plumber or a
carpenter who can get skilledand certified and then they are
able to earn much more but inIndia that is not the case and
because of the job scenario allof these technicians earning is
meager so they are hungry forjobs and for jobs that can help
(08:18):
them improve their skill set andcontinue growing in life so In
our company, we have a motto forour supply, which I will quote
you as is and then give you theEnglish translation, is helper
se malik takka suffer.
What that translates to inEnglish is the journey from an
(08:40):
apprentice to an owner, to abusiness owner.
So we help them climb thatladder and consequently improve
their skills and income.
and quality of life.
Speaker 00 (08:52):
So it sounds, at least at some level, that
there's a big, heavy operationallogistics side of Wify, and
there's a big, heavy humanresources side of Wify.
What have been some of thechallenges, both on the
(09:12):
operational side and on thehuman resources side?
And let me just add to that, Ithink a The perception of India,
rightly or wrongly, is thatit's a confusing country.
It has a lot of complexity interms of getting things from
point A to point B.
Of course, it's over a billionpeople of many different kinds
(09:35):
of people, many differentlevels.
So it sounds like you'redealing with just immense
complexity, both on the humanresource side, that's called the
supply side, and also on thelogistics side.
Can you both talk about that alittle bit?
Is that an accurate perception?
Speaker 02 (09:50):
Sure, indeed, Dan, that is.
I would like to add to that onemore thing, which is part of
the solution, is the tech.
Without tech, we could not havebeen able to solve this problem
at scale.
So in order to solve thisproblem of human resource
complexity and the operationalcomplexity, we have to build
(10:12):
this business on a tech platformfrom day zero.
We thought about what kind ofsoftware system we need, what
kind of tech do we need, and webuilt everything on that.
So process was written downfrom the very beginning, put it
on a tech platform, and hence wewere able to solve this
(10:32):
operations and logistics onscale.
And I would say the secondfundamental enabler is training.
So every person who comes onthe platform, we ensure
training.
that they are made aware ofwhat is the expectation of the
consumer, expectation of thebrand that we are serving, and
what is the expectation of usfrom ourselves that we want to
(10:53):
deliver.
So with that, we were able tosolve this complex.
Speaker 00 (10:57):
I can imagine that you're talking about people with
not necessarily high education,not necessarily a lot of formal
training or formal experience.
Is that accurate?
So what are some of thechallenges in, let's say,
upskilling them to the pointwhere they can actually
represent Wify to both the endcustomer and also to the brand?
Speaker 02 (11:20):
Yeah, so that's a great question.
So I think there are two majorchallenges.
First is their willingness toget trained.
And second is their ability toinvest in their training.
Now they are intertwined orconnected with each other.
Most of these blue-collarworkers are daily wage earners.
If they do not go to work todayand do not make their $15, $20
(11:45):
daily income, they cannot runtheir family or their household.
Give
Speaker 00 (11:51):
us a profile.
What would this person be doingif they weren't working for
Wify, for example?
Speaker 02 (11:58):
If they were not working for Wify they're likely
to be working in an unorganizedsetting under a kind of a
general contractor or a laborcontractor or a carpentry
contractor where they would bejust a helper or an apprentice
and they would be getting like,as I said, 1,000 to 1,500
rupees, which is $15 dailyincome they will be making.
(12:22):
And any day that they do notwork, they do not get that money
in their pocket.
So as a result, it limits theirability to invest their time in
training because trainingwouldn't pay.
Sometimes they also have thelack of willingness to, in
(12:43):
addition to their ability,ability means they can't make
the money so they wouldn't doit, but sometimes they're also
not willing because nobody hasreally taken the time to educate
them.
Or they come from a backgroundof exploitation.
So there is a lack of trustsometimes in in businesses who
are trying to employ them.
So that was, you know, I thinkone of the biggest challenges to
(13:03):
overcome that by trying to tellthem that, look, we are here to
help you get trained, getupskilled.
And we had to actually pay themduring that training period as
well so that, you know, we canat least pay them the minimum
wage, which will help them keeptheir livelihoods going.
That, I would say, was thebiggest challenge for us and
(13:25):
continues
Speaker 00 (13:26):
to be the biggest challenge.
The biggest challenge isgetting them to leave what they
were doing in order to join youand paying them in order to get
that training.
Is there much?
So
Speaker 02 (13:38):
all the capital that we have raised so far in our
company, I would say majority ofthat capital we have used for
upskilling and training thesepeople.
It's like the supply build ofcosts for us.
Speaker 00 (13:51):
You feel that you've cracked that code?
Speaker 02 (13:54):
Yes, I think there's no silver bullet to it.
It's something that we have tocontinuously keep on improving
our solution.
So far, what we have done hasworked to get us from zero to
3,000, but I think we'll need adifferent solution or an
improved solution to go from3,000 to 30,000.
Speaker 00 (14:16):
And in terms of the overall opportunity, and we're
just now talking about thenumbers of employees, The
overall opportunity is to employhow many people do you think in
the, let's say, next four tofive years?
Speaker 02 (14:31):
I would say in the next four to five years, the
minimum opportunity is about100,000 people.
I would like to be at 100,000people working with us in the
next three years.
And that is easily achievable.
And you can do that with thecurrent platform?
Yes.
Of course, we need to raisesome funds.
(14:52):
We need to raise some morecapital.
But with the current platform,we can easily achieve that.
Speaker 00 (14:58):
Well, let's talk about raising capital, but not
specifically necessarily justraising capital, but let's talk
about the environment or theecosystem in India for building
this kind of venture.
As I sit back and listen toboth of you, I say, yeah, this
is a no-brainer.
There must be 10 people, verytalented people out there doing
(15:21):
exactly the same thing becauseit just makes so much sense.
This is beneficial foreverybody, isn't it?
So what am I missing?
Speaker 02 (15:30):
Yeah, so Dan, that's a great question.
So I would say one factor is alot of the investment community
in India, the venture capitalfunds, They are in a big way
influenced by the Westernventure capitalists, which is
that they believe if a businessis only tech, that's where they
(15:53):
would like to invest theirdollars in.
There's a little bit of, Iwould say, hesitation in the
investment community to investor participate in
operations-heavy or people-heavybusinesses.
So that is some resistance thatwe have been facing,
specifically fund raising in theecosystem?
Speaker 00 (16:15):
Deepanshu, feel free to chime in anytime as well,
but let me just expand thatquestion a little bit more about
the ecosystem in India ingeneral to get not just
financial, but also financialresources to grow your business.
You need mentors, you needknow-how, you need access to
supplies, access to customers,and so on.
Describe to us who don't knowanything about that ecosystem,
(16:39):
what is it like in particular?
How do you think it's differentfrom let's say the United
States
Speaker 01 (16:46):
yeah it's a very different you know some points
we kind of already covered butin US if I go to IKEA bring
furniture to my home I assembleit myself right in India even if
we can do that skill set wewould not do it India is you
know as Vikram and I coined itEIM do it for me country we were
(17:07):
and we will always be a DIMcountry so that's one big change
in terms of the country secondis as Vikram mentioned about you
know the VC world so in USthere is a lot of funding on
ideas right in India there islack of funding just on ideas so
(17:33):
I think that's one big changeyou can get a 10 million dollar
cheque based on a drawing thatyou have on a paper napkin.
But in India, that's not goingto happen.
Speaker 00 (17:44):
So how did you get going?
Was it your own capital, yourown sort of sweat equity?
How did you get this off theground so that you could get to
the point where you could talkto some investors to give you
the resources to grow?
Speaker 02 (17:57):
Yeah.
So we stopped.
We have so far raised three,four small rounds and managed to
reach where we are.
The initial first check we gotwas from an angel investor who
we had known for many, manyyears.
So that helped.
(18:17):
And subsequent rounds, we hadto raise a combination of our
own money plus friends andfamily and so on.
Our last round, which we calleda pre-series A round, is when
we had some institutionalinvestors and VC funds also come
in.
Speaker 00 (18:35):
And total amount of capital raised approximately,
give us ballpark.
Speaker 02 (18:38):
Is about 7 million.
Actually less than, about 6million is the total amount of
capital we have raised so far.
And on back of that, we havealready built, you know, close
to $7 million annualized revenuebusiness.
And we still have about 2million in the bank.
Do you think you're going toneed much more capital going
forward to grow?
(18:59):
The amount of capital that wehave is enough for us to kind of
double from where we are.
But I'm talking about 10x.
We want to go 10x in the nextthree years.
For that, we will need capital.
And does that exist in India Itdoes exist, but it is just
harder to crack, especially foroperations-heavy businesses like
(19:22):
us.
Speaker 00 (19:25):
Okay, so it would be interesting.
Do you think it's going tostand on its own merits, or is
this something that kind ofkeeps you up at night?
In other words, when I saystandards or its own merits,
you've got really great numbers.
And you'd think that peoplewould look at the numbers and
say, yeah, these guys seem toknow what they're doing.
(19:46):
They built a business.
They've done the hard work ofgetting 200 brands and 3,000
workers and a tech platformbuilt out and presence in the
marketplace.
So a lot of it has beende-risked.
You'd think that people wouldbe lining up to...
put money in, but it doesn'tsound like that's the case.
(20:07):
So what are you doing in orderto make that case for the
relatively scarce growth capitalthat's out there?
Speaker 02 (20:15):
Yes, I think we have reached that inflection point
now.
As you rightly said, we havekind of got to the numbers which
tell the story in itself.
We just need to improve or kindof come up with the right pitch
to raise the next 10 or 15million dollars to grow 10X.
So that's where I thinkguidance from mentors like you
(20:41):
would help in
Speaker 00 (20:43):
building that pitch.
So let me ask you this, thatyou need to grow a business,
let's say 10X, you need on thesupply side, you need the
people.
Let's say in your case, it'speople.
You need, of course, theplatform.
that you have.
You need the customers that youhave, but you also needed the
organization.
And that means not just you andDeepanshu running the company.
(21:07):
That means a management team ofpeople who are really
experienced at building abusiness can work together maybe
know each other, at least sharethe same values, and there has
to be a supply of those kindsof, let's call them executives
now, for lack of a better word.
How does that play out, and howwill that play out in the
future, your ability to tap intoan executive labor pool?
(21:30):
That sounds like a great word,but here's what we're
Speaker 02 (21:34):
talking about.
I think we are in a greatposition from that perspective.
We have a really good linemanagement team, like category
managers and business managers,We have a really good team
already who is, I think, capableenough to take us to the next
level, like 10x.
How do you bring them in?
(21:56):
So we have been hiring themover time, giving them an idea
about the opportunity that wepresent.
Some of them come fromstartups.
Some of them even come fromestablished companies.
But we have been able toattract some good talent to line
management.
Some corporate functions iswhere we will need to get some
(22:19):
new talent, you know, like HR,finance and so on.
Because that's something whichme and Dipanshu have been
running so far ourselves.
Speaker 01 (22:28):
Yeah, just to add to it, I think I give you a
different perspective of it.
So for me, when we are lookingat line managers, something I
realized fairly early is tounderstand something I called as
employee happiness quotient.
If that question is high, thatvalue is high, the employee will
stay no matter what.
(22:49):
If that value is low, theywill, you know, there will be
attrition.
So, we, I and Vikram both workvery heavily to understand what
is that they need.
A lot of people need autonomy.
So, we have created somethingas we call as a CEO culture.
So, the category manager is CEOof that business.
(23:09):
We have defined guidelines forthem and And then they are able
to run the business as they wantwithin those guidelines.
So a lot of freedom.
So as Vikram said, we have nowtrained and groomed all of them
to take on more responsibilityand continue growing.
Speaker 00 (23:28):
So I like that word autonomy and a system to allow
their autonomy to function.
Is that typical in an Indianventure of the kind that you're
building?
Is that part of the businessculture to build that kind of
company where there really isautonomy?
Speaker 01 (23:47):
I think it's rare.
I will not say that it doesn'texist, but I'll say it's rare.
It's normally a single or acouple of people driving
everything down and othersfollowing instructions.
However, I think we want toscale differently.
And it's a people business.
So we need good people to beable to run it.
(24:08):
So we are trying to build thatto help us kill.
Speaker 00 (24:13):
Vikram, I see you nodding your head.
Speaker 02 (24:16):
Yes, indeed.
What the puncher is saying isabsolutely right.
We see the rarity of thathappening elsewhere.
So that's why we are able toattract these people to come
work with us because we providethat autonomy and that
atmosphere for them to grow.
Speaker 00 (24:37):
So I haven't been to India for a long time, but I
did a few study tours in Indiamaybe 15 years ago.
And one of the comments thatpeople made then was that, let's
say the middle class wasoriented to the professions.
And so your dream job was to gointo some profession or other
(24:57):
and have a stable job.
And it was considered to be alittle strange.
Your parents would discourageyou.
Your wife or husband woulddiscourage you from going into a
job in a risky startup.
Do you think that's changedsomewhat?
Speaker 02 (25:14):
Yes, it is changing.
I would say 15 years ago, itwas more challenging or there
was more resistance fromfamilies to let children go to
or their kids or young ones,young graduates go to startups.
But today that has changed.
And I think a lot of it hashappened because there are many
success stories of companieswhich have grown up to become
(25:38):
unicorns and people who havebecome, you know, generated also
wealth by working in startups.
So it's changing slowly.
Speaker 00 (25:49):
So India is huge, right?
It's a a world in and ofitself, let's say.
It's a huge economy.
It's vibrant and has incredibleamounts of diversity within the
country in language and cultureand food and almost everything
else that you can imagine.
Do you think that the Wifybusiness is an India business
(26:11):
that will build the value in theIndian market?
And by the way, I'm sure thatit's, for all intents and
purposes, huge if not unlimitedfor what you're doing.
Or do you see the possibility,or a possibility, of applying
this model to other markets?
Because it does address aspecific pain point in the
(26:36):
Indian, let's say, businesslogistics.
Speaker 02 (26:40):
Right.
Absolutely, Dan.
I would say that it has aglobal possibility.
Because our solution, ourbusinesses...
It consists of one is theoperational solution, other is a
tech solution.
The operational solution isapplicable to every other
India-like country, which is nota DIY.
(27:01):
In fact, only the Western worldis DIY.
Rest of the world, all of Asia,Middle East, Africa is not DIY.
So our solution operation, likethe entire solution of ours is
applicable to the rest of thenon-Western world or the global
South.
Whereas the tech is applicableglobally, the software that we
(27:22):
have can easily be utilized inthe Western markets or the North
American regions also.
Speaker 00 (27:32):
Okay, so let's go back to the beginning in a way.
I'm sorry, Deepanshu, did youwant to...
Speaker 01 (27:36):
Yeah, I was just trying to make a point.
So let's take an example of USonly, right?
So let's say we can have thesoftware side of it can have
people...
skilled and certified forcertain kind of roles.
Correct?
And the demand side isobviously, you know, consumers
coming for product that theyhave procured from the brand.
(27:57):
Now, they will be able tosource which kind of technician
do they want and that technicianhas been certified for one
particular job.
So, let's say someone who isskilled enough for, let's say,
installing in IKEA kitchen, butsomeone might only be skilled
enough to install an IKEA sidetable.
So the cost of hiring someonewho is skilled enough to install
(28:22):
a side table will be lesserthan the cost of hiring someone
who is skilled enough to installa kitchen.
So that parity, that tech, hasa global use case.
Where people who are also sunnyskills can come and join the
platform.
Speaker 00 (28:38):
Sounds to me like you're your leaders in a market.
I'm sure you'll see competitorsif you don't see them already.
I'm sure maybe there are some,but it sounds like your leaders.
And if you move fast, stayparanoid a little bit about the
competition and keep gettingaccess to resources, I think
(29:00):
it's going to be a majorsuccess.
But we didn't talk about exitpossibilities.
I wonder if you could commentbriefly, and I may use this
segment.
I wonder if you could commentbriefly about exit
possibilities.
You see that in India, outsideof India, acquisition, listing,
and I'm not asking as ashareholder who's not patient.
Just ask us what your overallvision would be.
Speaker 02 (29:24):
Sure.
So today, Dan, what's happenedis the listing possibility has
become...
easy, easier and more real inIndia, even for smaller
companies.
We are seeing companies witheven, you know, $20 to $30
million revenues also gettinglisted.
So the listing market in Indiafor small and medium companies
(29:48):
has become strong.
So that is definitely apossibility.
And we are actually not too faraway from EBITDA positive.
The moment we reach that, wecan have listing.
Second, there's a lot ofopportunity of getting acquired
also because a lot of businesshouses want to have a foot in
(30:09):
the home.
So home advisory or homeimprovement, home maintenance is
a very big segment.
Speaker 00 (30:17):
Got it.
Okay.
I'm sure that's a question thatinvestors ask you.
Right.
I'm certain the foreign onesask you this.
By the way, do you see foreigninvestors showing interest?
Unknown (30:29):
No.
Speaker 02 (30:29):
when you asked about competition so right now there
is we are the leaders in B2Bspace there is a very large
competitor on the B2C space whoare at least 10x or 20x larger
than us there's a company calledUrban Company you see it's
popularly known as they haveraised about 250 million dollars
(30:53):
already and most of their largeinvestors are foreign investors
so we see there's a largepossibility for us to attract
both foreign and localinvestors.
Speaker 00 (31:05):
And what do you mean by B to C in this case?
Do you mean that the consumer,they sell a service to the
consumer?
To the consumer directly.
Speaker 02 (31:13):
So let's say you have bought a product which is
lying in your house.
You don't want to reach out tothe brand for service.
Because brand either haslimited ability to provide a
service or you think brand willovercharge.
So these consumers reach outdirectly to the urban company.
So they're the largest on theB2C side.
(31:34):
But they are very broad intheir service stage.
They provide everything frommassage to shave to haircut to
easy repair to home improvementto painting your walls.
We are very specific.
We are only focused on homeimprovement.
And we
Speaker 00 (31:50):
are B2B first.
And the B2B means that Amazonwill integrate you into their
offering and sell you to theircustomers.
Already bundled price
Speaker 02 (32:05):
or an optional price, right?
Mostly already bundled priceand sometimes optional.
Speaker 01 (32:11):
Yeah, but that's increasing, and we continue to
increase.
Interestingly, Amazon's one ofour top customers, and they are
really also fascinated by ourmodel.
So our integration with them isgoing deeper.
Speaker 00 (32:25):
So let's go back to the beginning in a way, because
I've promised to my listeners tokeep these relatively short,
but I have to ask you both thisone question.
You've been doing this for afew years, right?
I would say probably 8 to 10years, something like that.
Is that fair?
No,
Speaker 02 (32:46):
this Wify we started five years ago.
We will complete six years thissummer.
Speaker 00 (32:52):
Okay, and you guys look to be like you're in your
early 40s, more or less, right?
You're not 60 or 70 like me,and you're not 20.
If you met yourself...
who is five or 10 yearsyounger, getting ready to start
a Wify.
What advice would you give youryounger self now that you know
(33:15):
what you know?
Let's start with you,Deepanshu.
Speaker 01 (33:21):
Make mistakes faster.
Don't try and over-optimize.
And learn.
So in startup, there willalways be a thousand fires to
put out.
Prioritize which one to put outfirst.
Speaker 02 (33:33):
Interesting.
And you, Vikram?
Start sooner.
Urgency.
So similar to what Deepak justsaid, sense of urgency.
No need to have the perfectsolution in place.
Just once you have an idea,just try it out.
Speaker 00 (33:52):
Okay, that's great.
Well, thank you all very much.
This is the end of our currentsession.
podcast episode.
I've had a half an hour of veryinteresting conversation here
Deepanshu and Vikram Sharma, thetwo co-founders and the two
leaders of this, what I see as areally fascinating venture,
(34:13):
Wify, that one of the reasonsthat I brought it to you, my
listeners, is that it's a littledifferent from the kinds of
ventures that I think we'dencounter in the United States
and in Western Europe.
Maybe, maybe not, but it doeshave a particular, at this stage
anyway, a particular Indianflavor to it.
And so with that, I'll signoff.
(34:36):
Feel free to Download thispodcast and take a look at other
podcasts that you think mightbe relevant to you.
We have some really, reallyfascinating companies already
that we've talked to and have alot more on the docket.
So again, Deepanshu and Vikram,thank you very much.
I wish you all the very, verybest success.
Hi, this is Dan Isenberg, and welcome to the
latest episode of Scale-UpPodcasts.
Remember, Scale-Up Podcastsbrings you examples, hints,
experts, people who have scaledup their companies beyond a few
million dollars.
And these are companies thatcome from all over the world.
They may not be your so-calledtraditional ventures, whatever
(00:22):
that means, but they'recompanies founded by people who
are determined to grow theirbusiness as much as possible.
And I am fortunate to have withme the two co-founders of a
company in India called Wify.
The two people with me areVikram Sharma and
Deepanshu Goel.
And they'll tell you all aboutthemselves and all about Wify,
(00:46):
but I do have to disclose thatI'm a shareholder in Wifi or
will be soon a shareholder inWify.
And let's just get that out ofthe way.
I'm obviously excited to bepart of this journey.
So let me start by just askingboth of you, well, each of you,
I should say, just in short,short, who is Vikram and who is
(01:11):
Deepanshu?
And let's start with you,Vikram.
Who are you, short version?
Speaker 02 (01:16):
I'm an entrepreneur, have been building companies
for the last 15 years.
I met Dan when I was a studentat Harvard Business School.
And I remember asking him aquestion, whether it's better to
be a venture capitalist firstor an entrepreneur first.
And Dan gave me a bunch ofideas, which took me about 10
(01:36):
years to get started with.
Speaker 00 (01:40):
Okay, we'll circle back on some of those.
Deepanshu, how about yourself?
Who are you?
Speaker 01 (01:47):
I keep it shorter.
I'm an engineer , a problemsolver and a business or a
startup enthusiast.
I love discussing businessideas and to Dan's point, trying
to understand how can we growthem.
That's what I'm trying to dohere at Wify.
Speaker 00 (02:05):
And physically, where are you located right now?
Speaker 01 (02:08):
We are both based out of Bombay.
And right now we are at a Wifyoffice in different locations.
Speaker 00 (02:18):
Wifi is located in Bombay, Mumbai, India.
Correct.
And it's always been there.
And it's focused on the Indianmarket.
It's the first Indian venture,by the way, that we've hosted on
ScaleApp Podcast.
So that's one of the questionswe're going to be talking about.
I hope we'll get into what aresome of the opportunities and
challenges of building a scaledbusiness in India.
(02:39):
But now let me go through thesame exercise with you about
describing who is or what isWify.
And I'll get your version,Vikram.
But then Deepanshu, it may bethe same, but if it's at all
different in any way, which itcould be, your version as well.
What is Wify, Vikram?
So
Speaker 02 (02:59):
Wifi is a post-purchase services company.
India is not a DIY country,unlike the West.
So in India, consumers buyanything from furniture to
appliances to whatever productthey buy for the home.
We provide everything.
installation and after-salesservices for those products.
So for brands, we work allmajor brands like Ikea, Amazon,
(03:24):
Panasonic, any brand sellingconsumer durables, we take care
of the post-purchase servicesfor them.
Speaker 00 (03:33):
Okay, well, we'll get into what the rationale for
that is a little bit later.
Deepanshu, what's your versionof what is...
Speaker 01 (03:43):
Vikram spoke more about the demand side, so I'll
speak more about the supplyside.
I think one thing that has beenvery important and is very
important for both Vikram and meis to be able to create jobs.
So at Wifi, we have been ableto help the technicians that are
working for us upskill, improvetheir productivity and
(04:06):
consequently the income thatthey will be able to generate
for their families and have abetter living.
Speaker 00 (04:11):
So it's interesting.
It's like you have differentstakeholders in this Wify
community.
It's not just the shareholders.
It's not just the executives.
It's not just the customers,but it's also the employees.
And so why don't you describethe pain point or opportunity
that Wify, that you see in Wifyand that led you to create the
(04:34):
company?
Go ahead, Vikram.
Sure.
Speaker 02 (04:38):
Yeah, so the As you rightly said, Dan, there are
multiple stakeholders.
Let's talk about three mostimportant stakeholders.
The first one is the brands.
The second is the endconsumers.
And the third is thetechnicians, the employees or
the workers who are working onour platform or in the company.
All three have different painpoints.
(04:59):
The brand's pain point is theycannot sell a product if they
cannot provide after-salesservice or installation
services.
in the country because India,unlike the West, is not a DIY
country.
Somebody will not buy a cabinetand come home and fix it
themselves.
They want somebody to do theinstallation.
Speaker 00 (05:19):
We're also talking
Speaker 02 (05:21):
about well-known brands.
Can you give us just anexample?
It could be a brand or aretailer like IKEA could be an
example of a brand and Amazonwould be an example of a
retailer who could be sellingany consumer durable product
which requires some installationat home.
So those are the common issuesfor the brand and the consumer,
which is providing service.
(05:42):
And then the third set ofstakeholders, which is the
employees or the technicians orthe workers working on the
platform, their pain point isthey often do not have the
skills to provide this service.
They are traditionalcarpenters, for example, who do
not understand an IKEA product.
So we solve that problem byupskilling them, as Deepanshu
(06:03):
mentioned.
Speaker 00 (06:05):
So why don't you give us...
Some of the numbers, we'll comeback to this later, but how
many people are we talking aboutin terms of the employees and
the numbers of brands thatyou're dealing with?
And if you can tell us anythingabout the numbers of revenues
that you've achieved, tell usthat as well.
Speaker 02 (06:25):
Sure.
So as of today, we have morethan 200 brands that we serve.
We are serving 40,000 consumerhomes every month.
which is 40,000 uniqueservices, which could be
installation or service ormaintenance requests.
We have 3,000 people workingwith us on our platform.
(06:46):
And our monthly revenue at thismoment is about $550,000 per
month.
So a little over half a milliondollars of monthly revenue.
Speaker 00 (07:00):
And so...
Let's come back to the painpoint.
So there is a pain point at thebrand side, right?
That has to do withfulfillment.
Now let's go to the otherstakeholders.
The pain point, obviously, orsomehow you're providing benefit
also for these 3,000 andsomeday 30,000, let's say,
(07:21):
workers.
What's the pain point for them?
What need do you address?
Speaker 01 (07:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I think for them, India, ifyou look at the population, is
a very youth-driven country.
So, as a country, lack theinfrastructure to be able to
train and upskill theseblue-collar workers.
If you compare this to, let'ssay, US or the Western world,
(07:54):
you will have proper trainingcollege courses for these
technicians let's say anelectrician a plumber or a
carpenter who can get skilledand certified and then they are
able to earn much more but inIndia that is not the case and
because of the job scenario allof these technicians earning is
meager so they are hungry forjobs and for jobs that can help
(08:18):
them improve their skill set andcontinue growing in life so In
our company, we have a motto forour supply, which I will quote
you as is and then give you theEnglish translation, is helper
se malik takka suffer.
What that translates to inEnglish is the journey from an
(08:40):
apprentice to an owner, to abusiness owner.
So we help them climb thatladder and consequently improve
their skills and income.
and quality of life.
Speaker 00 (08:52):
So it sounds, at least at some level, that
there's a big, heavy operationallogistics side of Wify, and
there's a big, heavy humanresources side of Wify.
What have been some of thechallenges, both on the
(09:12):
operational side and on thehuman resources side?
And let me just add to that, Ithink a The perception of India,
rightly or wrongly, is thatit's a confusing country.
It has a lot of complexity interms of getting things from
point A to point B.
Of course, it's over a billionpeople of many different kinds
(09:35):
of people, many differentlevels.
So it sounds like you'redealing with just immense
complexity, both on the humanresource side, that's called the
supply side, and also on thelogistics side.
Can you both talk about that alittle bit?
Is that an accurate perception?
Speaker 02 (09:50):
Sure, indeed, Dan, that is.
I would like to add to that onemore thing, which is part of
the solution, is the tech.
Without tech, we could not havebeen able to solve this problem
at scale.
So in order to solve thisproblem of human resource
complexity and the operationalcomplexity, we have to build
(10:12):
this business on a tech platformfrom day zero.
We thought about what kind ofsoftware system we need, what
kind of tech do we need, and webuilt everything on that.
So process was written downfrom the very beginning, put it
on a tech platform, and hence wewere able to solve this
(10:32):
operations and logistics onscale.
And I would say the secondfundamental enabler is training.
So every person who comes onthe platform, we ensure
training.
that they are made aware ofwhat is the expectation of the
consumer, expectation of thebrand that we are serving, and
what is the expectation of usfrom ourselves that we want to
(10:53):
deliver.
So with that, we were able tosolve this complex.
Speaker 00 (10:57):
I can imagine that you're talking about people with
not necessarily high education,not necessarily a lot of formal
training or formal experience.
Is that accurate?
So what are some of thechallenges in, let's say,
upskilling them to the pointwhere they can actually
represent Wify to both the endcustomer and also to the brand?
Speaker 02 (11:20):
Yeah, so that's a great question.
So I think there are two majorchallenges.
First is their willingness toget trained.
And second is their ability toinvest in their training.
Now they are intertwined orconnected with each other.
Most of these blue-collarworkers are daily wage earners.
If they do not go to work todayand do not make their $15, $20
(11:45):
daily income, they cannot runtheir family or their household.
Give
Speaker 00 (11:51):
us a profile.
What would this person be doingif they weren't working for
Wify, for example?
Speaker 02 (11:58):
If they were not working for Wify they're likely
to be working in an unorganizedsetting under a kind of a
general contractor or a laborcontractor or a carpentry
contractor where they would bejust a helper or an apprentice
and they would be getting like,as I said, 1,000 to 1,500
rupees, which is $15 dailyincome they will be making.
(12:22):
And any day that they do notwork, they do not get that money
in their pocket.
So as a result, it limits theirability to invest their time in
training because trainingwouldn't pay.
Sometimes they also have thelack of willingness to, in
(12:43):
addition to their ability,ability means they can't make
the money so they wouldn't doit, but sometimes they're also
not willing because nobody hasreally taken the time to educate
them.
Or they come from a backgroundof exploitation.
So there is a lack of trustsometimes in in businesses who
are trying to employ them.
So that was, you know, I thinkone of the biggest challenges to
(13:03):
overcome that by trying to tellthem that, look, we are here to
help you get trained, getupskilled.
And we had to actually pay themduring that training period as
well so that, you know, we canat least pay them the minimum
wage, which will help them keeptheir livelihoods going.
That, I would say, was thebiggest challenge for us and
(13:25):
continues
Speaker 00 (13:26):
to be the biggest challenge.
The biggest challenge isgetting them to leave what they
were doing in order to join youand paying them in order to get
that training.
Is there much?
So
Speaker 02 (13:38):
all the capital that we have raised so far in our
company, I would say majority ofthat capital we have used for
upskilling and training thesepeople.
It's like the supply build ofcosts for us.
Speaker 00 (13:51):
You feel that you've cracked that code?
Speaker 02 (13:54):
Yes, I think there's no silver bullet to it.
It's something that we have tocontinuously keep on improving
our solution.
So far, what we have done hasworked to get us from zero to
3,000, but I think we'll need adifferent solution or an
improved solution to go from3,000 to 30,000.
Speaker 00 (14:16):
And in terms of the overall opportunity, and we're
just now talking about thenumbers of employees, The
overall opportunity is to employhow many people do you think in
the, let's say, next four tofive years?
Speaker 02 (14:31):
I would say in the next four to five years, the
minimum opportunity is about100,000 people.
I would like to be at 100,000people working with us in the
next three years.
And that is easily achievable.
And you can do that with thecurrent platform?
Yes.
Of course, we need to raisesome funds.
(14:52):
We need to raise some morecapital.
But with the current platform,we can easily achieve that.
Speaker 00 (14:58):
Well, let's talk about raising capital, but not
specifically necessarily justraising capital, but let's talk
about the environment or theecosystem in India for building
this kind of venture.
As I sit back and listen toboth of you, I say, yeah, this
is a no-brainer.
There must be 10 people, verytalented people out there doing
(15:21):
exactly the same thing becauseit just makes so much sense.
This is beneficial foreverybody, isn't it?
So what am I missing?
Speaker 02 (15:30):
Yeah, so Dan, that's a great question.
So I would say one factor is alot of the investment community
in India, the venture capitalfunds, They are in a big way
influenced by the Westernventure capitalists, which is
that they believe if a businessis only tech, that's where they
(15:53):
would like to invest theirdollars in.
There's a little bit of, Iwould say, hesitation in the
investment community to investor participate in
operations-heavy or people-heavybusinesses.
So that is some resistance thatwe have been facing,
specifically fund raising in theecosystem?
Speaker 00 (16:15):
Deepanshu, feel free to chime in anytime as well,
but let me just expand thatquestion a little bit more about
the ecosystem in India ingeneral to get not just
financial, but also financialresources to grow your business.
You need mentors, you needknow-how, you need access to
supplies, access to customers,and so on.
Describe to us who don't knowanything about that ecosystem,
(16:39):
what is it like in particular?
How do you think it's differentfrom let's say the United
States
Speaker 01 (16:46):
yeah it's a very different you know some points
we kind of already covered butin US if I go to IKEA bring
furniture to my home I assembleit myself right in India even if
we can do that skill set wewould not do it India is you
know as Vikram and I coined itEIM do it for me country we were
(17:07):
and we will always be a DIMcountry so that's one big change
in terms of the country secondis as Vikram mentioned about you
know the VC world so in USthere is a lot of funding on
ideas right in India there islack of funding just on ideas so
(17:33):
I think that's one big changeyou can get a 10 million dollar
cheque based on a drawing thatyou have on a paper napkin.
But in India, that's not goingto happen.
Speaker 00 (17:44):
So how did you get going?
Was it your own capital, yourown sort of sweat equity?
How did you get this off theground so that you could get to
the point where you could talkto some investors to give you
the resources to grow?
Speaker 02 (17:57):
Yeah.
So we stopped.
We have so far raised three,four small rounds and managed to
reach where we are.
The initial first check we gotwas from an angel investor who
we had known for many, manyyears.
So that helped.
(18:17):
And subsequent rounds, we hadto raise a combination of our
own money plus friends andfamily and so on.
Our last round, which we calleda pre-series A round, is when
we had some institutionalinvestors and VC funds also come
in.
Speaker 00 (18:35):
And total amount of capital raised approximately,
give us ballpark.
Speaker 02 (18:38):
Is about 7 million.
Actually less than, about 6million is the total amount of
capital we have raised so far.
And on back of that, we havealready built, you know, close
to $7 million annualized revenuebusiness.
And we still have about 2million in the bank.
Do you think you're going toneed much more capital going
forward to grow?
(18:59):
The amount of capital that wehave is enough for us to kind of
double from where we are.
But I'm talking about 10x.
We want to go 10x in the nextthree years.
For that, we will need capital.
And does that exist in India Itdoes exist, but it is just
harder to crack, especially foroperations-heavy businesses like
(19:22):
us.
Speaker 00 (19:25):
Okay, so it would be interesting.
Do you think it's going tostand on its own merits, or is
this something that kind ofkeeps you up at night?
In other words, when I saystandards or its own merits,
you've got really great numbers.
And you'd think that peoplewould look at the numbers and
say, yeah, these guys seem toknow what they're doing.
(19:46):
They built a business.
They've done the hard work ofgetting 200 brands and 3,000
workers and a tech platformbuilt out and presence in the
marketplace.
So a lot of it has beende-risked.
You'd think that people wouldbe lining up to...
put money in, but it doesn'tsound like that's the case.
(20:07):
So what are you doing in orderto make that case for the
relatively scarce growth capitalthat's out there?
Speaker 02 (20:15):
Yes, I think we have reached that inflection point
now.
As you rightly said, we havekind of got to the numbers which
tell the story in itself.
We just need to improve or kindof come up with the right pitch
to raise the next 10 or 15million dollars to grow 10X.
So that's where I thinkguidance from mentors like you
(20:41):
would help in
Speaker 00 (20:43):
building that pitch.
So let me ask you this, thatyou need to grow a business,
let's say 10X, you need on thesupply side, you need the
people.
Let's say in your case, it'speople.
You need, of course, theplatform.
that you have.
You need the customers that youhave, but you also needed the
organization.
And that means not just you andDeepanshu running the company.
(21:07):
That means a management team ofpeople who are really
experienced at building abusiness can work together maybe
know each other, at least sharethe same values, and there has
to be a supply of those kindsof, let's call them executives
now, for lack of a better word.
How does that play out, and howwill that play out in the
future, your ability to tap intoan executive labor pool?
(21:30):
That sounds like a great word,but here's what we're
Speaker 02 (21:34):
talking about.
I think we are in a greatposition from that perspective.
We have a really good linemanagement team, like category
managers and business managers,We have a really good team
already who is, I think, capableenough to take us to the next
level, like 10x.
How do you bring them in?
(21:56):
So we have been hiring themover time, giving them an idea
about the opportunity that wepresent.
Some of them come fromstartups.
Some of them even come fromestablished companies.
But we have been able toattract some good talent to line
management.
Some corporate functions iswhere we will need to get some
(22:19):
new talent, you know, like HR,finance and so on.
Because that's something whichme and Dipanshu have been
running so far ourselves.
Speaker 01 (22:28):
Yeah, just to add to it, I think I give you a
different perspective of it.
So for me, when we are lookingat line managers, something I
realized fairly early is tounderstand something I called as
employee happiness quotient.
If that question is high, thatvalue is high, the employee will
stay no matter what.
(22:49):
If that value is low, theywill, you know, there will be
attrition.
So, we, I and Vikram both workvery heavily to understand what
is that they need.
A lot of people need autonomy.
So, we have created somethingas we call as a CEO culture.
So, the category manager is CEOof that business.
(23:09):
We have defined guidelines forthem and And then they are able
to run the business as they wantwithin those guidelines.
So a lot of freedom.
So as Vikram said, we have nowtrained and groomed all of them
to take on more responsibilityand continue growing.
Speaker 00 (23:28):
So I like that word autonomy and a system to allow
their autonomy to function.
Is that typical in an Indianventure of the kind that you're
building?
Is that part of the businessculture to build that kind of
company where there really isautonomy?
Speaker 01 (23:47):
I think it's rare.
I will not say that it doesn'texist, but I'll say it's rare.
It's normally a single or acouple of people driving
everything down and othersfollowing instructions.
However, I think we want toscale differently.
And it's a people business.
So we need good people to beable to run it.
(24:08):
So we are trying to build thatto help us kill.
Speaker 00 (24:13):
Vikram, I see you nodding your head.
Speaker 02 (24:16):
Yes, indeed.
What the puncher is saying isabsolutely right.
We see the rarity of thathappening elsewhere.
So that's why we are able toattract these people to come
work with us because we providethat autonomy and that
atmosphere for them to grow.
Speaker 00 (24:37):
So I haven't been to India for a long time, but I
did a few study tours in Indiamaybe 15 years ago.
And one of the comments thatpeople made then was that, let's
say the middle class wasoriented to the professions.
And so your dream job was to gointo some profession or other
(24:57):
and have a stable job.
And it was considered to be alittle strange.
Your parents would discourageyou.
Your wife or husband woulddiscourage you from going into a
job in a risky startup.
Do you think that's changedsomewhat?
Speaker 02 (25:14):
Yes, it is changing.
I would say 15 years ago, itwas more challenging or there
was more resistance fromfamilies to let children go to
or their kids or young ones,young graduates go to startups.
But today that has changed.
And I think a lot of it hashappened because there are many
success stories of companieswhich have grown up to become
(25:38):
unicorns and people who havebecome, you know, generated also
wealth by working in startups.
So it's changing slowly.
Speaker 00 (25:49):
So India is huge, right?
It's a a world in and ofitself, let's say.
It's a huge economy.
It's vibrant and has incredibleamounts of diversity within the
country in language and cultureand food and almost everything
else that you can imagine.
Do you think that the Wifybusiness is an India business
(26:11):
that will build the value in theIndian market?
And by the way, I'm sure thatit's, for all intents and
purposes, huge if not unlimitedfor what you're doing.
Or do you see the possibility,or a possibility, of applying
this model to other markets?
Because it does address aspecific pain point in the
(26:36):
Indian, let's say, businesslogistics.
Speaker 02 (26:40):
Right.
Absolutely, Dan.
I would say that it has aglobal possibility.
Because our solution, ourbusinesses...
It consists of one is theoperational solution, other is a
tech solution.
The operational solution isapplicable to every other
India-like country, which is nota DIY.
(27:01):
In fact, only the Western worldis DIY.
Rest of the world, all of Asia,Middle East, Africa is not DIY.
So our solution operation, likethe entire solution of ours is
applicable to the rest of thenon-Western world or the global
South.
Whereas the tech is applicableglobally, the software that we
(27:22):
have can easily be utilized inthe Western markets or the North
American regions also.
Speaker 00 (27:32):
Okay, so let's go back to the beginning in a way.
I'm sorry, Deepanshu, did youwant to...
Speaker 01 (27:36):
Yeah, I was just trying to make a point.
So let's take an example of USonly, right?
So let's say we can have thesoftware side of it can have
people...
skilled and certified forcertain kind of roles.
Correct?
And the demand side isobviously, you know, consumers
coming for product that theyhave procured from the brand.
(27:57):
Now, they will be able tosource which kind of technician
do they want and that technicianhas been certified for one
particular job.
So, let's say someone who isskilled enough for, let's say,
installing in IKEA kitchen, butsomeone might only be skilled
enough to install an IKEA sidetable.
So the cost of hiring someonewho is skilled enough to install
(28:22):
a side table will be lesserthan the cost of hiring someone
who is skilled enough to installa kitchen.
So that parity, that tech, hasa global use case.
Where people who are also sunnyskills can come and join the
platform.
Speaker 00 (28:38):
Sounds to me like you're your leaders in a market.
I'm sure you'll see competitorsif you don't see them already.
I'm sure maybe there are some,but it sounds like your leaders.
And if you move fast, stayparanoid a little bit about the
competition and keep gettingaccess to resources, I think
(29:00):
it's going to be a majorsuccess.
But we didn't talk about exitpossibilities.
I wonder if you could commentbriefly, and I may use this
segment.
I wonder if you could commentbriefly about exit
possibilities.
You see that in India, outsideof India, acquisition, listing,
and I'm not asking as ashareholder who's not patient.
Just ask us what your overallvision would be.
Speaker 02 (29:24):
Sure.
So today, Dan, what's happenedis the listing possibility has
become...
easy, easier and more real inIndia, even for smaller
companies.
We are seeing companies witheven, you know, $20 to $30
million revenues also gettinglisted.
So the listing market in Indiafor small and medium companies
(29:48):
has become strong.
So that is definitely apossibility.
And we are actually not too faraway from EBITDA positive.
The moment we reach that, wecan have listing.
Second, there's a lot ofopportunity of getting acquired
also because a lot of businesshouses want to have a foot in
(30:09):
the home.
So home advisory or homeimprovement, home maintenance is
a very big segment.
Speaker 00 (30:17):
Got it.
Okay.
I'm sure that's a question thatinvestors ask you.
Right.
I'm certain the foreign onesask you this.
By the way, do you see foreigninvestors showing interest?
Unknown (30:29):
No.
Speaker 02 (30:29):
when you asked about competition so right now there
is we are the leaders in B2Bspace there is a very large
competitor on the B2C space whoare at least 10x or 20x larger
than us there's a company calledUrban Company you see it's
popularly known as they haveraised about 250 million dollars
(30:53):
already and most of their largeinvestors are foreign investors
so we see there's a largepossibility for us to attract
both foreign and localinvestors.
Speaker 00 (31:05):
And what do you mean by B to C in this case?
Do you mean that the consumer,they sell a service to the
consumer?
To the consumer directly.
Speaker 02 (31:13):
So let's say you have bought a product which is
lying in your house.
You don't want to reach out tothe brand for service.
Because brand either haslimited ability to provide a
service or you think brand willovercharge.
So these consumers reach outdirectly to the urban company.
So they're the largest on theB2C side.
(31:34):
But they are very broad intheir service stage.
They provide everything frommassage to shave to haircut to
easy repair to home improvementto painting your walls.
We are very specific.
We are only focused on homeimprovement.
And we
Speaker 00 (31:50):
are B2B first.
And the B2B means that Amazonwill integrate you into their
offering and sell you to theircustomers.
Already bundled price
Speaker 02 (32:05):
or an optional price, right?
Mostly already bundled priceand sometimes optional.
Speaker 01 (32:11):
Yeah, but that's increasing, and we continue to
increase.
Interestingly, Amazon's one ofour top customers, and they are
really also fascinated by ourmodel.
So our integration with them isgoing deeper.
Speaker 00 (32:25):
So let's go back to the beginning in a way, because
I've promised to my listeners tokeep these relatively short,
but I have to ask you both thisone question.
You've been doing this for afew years, right?
I would say probably 8 to 10years, something like that.
Is that fair?
No,
Speaker 02 (32:46):
this Wify we started five years ago.
We will complete six years thissummer.
Speaker 00 (32:52):
Okay, and you guys look to be like you're in your
early 40s, more or less, right?
You're not 60 or 70 like me,and you're not 20.
If you met yourself...
who is five or 10 yearsyounger, getting ready to start
a Wify.
What advice would you give youryounger self now that you know
(33:15):
what you know?
Let's start with you,Deepanshu.
Speaker 01 (33:21):
Make mistakes faster.
Don't try and over-optimize.
And learn.
So in startup, there willalways be a thousand fires to
put out.
Prioritize which one to put outfirst.
Speaker 02 (33:33):
Interesting.
And you, Vikram?
Start sooner.
Urgency.
So similar to what Deepak justsaid, sense of urgency.
No need to have the perfectsolution in place.
Just once you have an idea,just try it out.
Speaker 00 (33:52):
Okay, that's great.
Well, thank you all very much.
This is the end of our currentsession.
podcast episode.
I've had a half an hour of veryinteresting conversation here
Deepanshu and Vikram Sharma, thetwo co-founders and the two
leaders of this, what I see as areally fascinating venture,
(34:13):
Wify, that one of the reasonsthat I brought it to you, my
listeners, is that it's a littledifferent from the kinds of
ventures that I think we'dencounter in the United States
and in Western Europe.
Maybe, maybe not, but it doeshave a particular, at this stage
anyway, a particular Indianflavor to it.
And so with that, I'll signoff.
(34:36):
Feel free to Download thispodcast and take a look at other
podcasts that you think mightbe relevant to you.
We have some really, reallyfascinating companies already
that we've talked to and have alot more on the docket.
So again, Deepanshu and Vikram,thank you very much.
I wish you all the very, verybest success.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.