June 6, 2025 • 27 mins
Scaling a business isn’t just about tactics, it’s about breaking through the fear that keeps entrepreneurs stuck in cycles of hesitation and survival mode. In a powerful conversation with Brent Holtman, founder of Kairos Profit Coach, we explore what really holds small businesses back from sustainable growth. Brent introduces the "buffalo strategy", facing challenges head-on instead of waiting them out. Through real-world case studies, including two construction companies that weathered the pandemic with opposite approaches, he shows how bold action during hard times can pave the way for major breakthroughs when the market rebounds.
Brent also tackles common pitfalls like price competition and “founder syndrome.” Instead of trying to outspend corporate giants, he encourages business owners to refine their offerings, using "sharper nails" instead of "bigger hammers." His message: focus on delivering clear value to the right clients. Brent’s insights extend to transitioning out of the "Chief Everything Officer" role and embracing tech like AI as tools for efficiency, not threats. For those torn between starting or buying a business, his advice is surprising: the less glamorous the business sounds, the better the investment. Connect with Brent on LinkedIn or download his free book Time for Profit at KairosProfitCoach.com to unlock actionable strategies that can help you break bottlenecks and grow with confidence.
https://www.linkedin.com/company/cynergists
https://www.youtube.com/@CynergistsVA
https://www.facebook.com/cynergistsva
https://www.instagram.com/cynergists/
https://www.tiktok.com/@cynergists?lang=en
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
What's up everybody this Ryan Van Ornam back with
another episode of scaling upsuccess power by synergist today
I have Brent Holtman on with metoday of Cairo's profit coach,
brent, how are you doing today,sir?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm outstanding thanks for asking how about you,
ryan?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
man, I'm fantastic.
If I was any better, I'd be you.
You, man.
You are just living your bestlife.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat you got going on.
Let's dive right into there.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, outstanding.
Thank you for that.
Yeah, so really, kairos ProfitCoaches has two focuses One, I
work with small businesses tohelp those business owners to
scale up, to increase theirrevenue and their profitability,
and then, in addition to that,I work with small business
coaches to equip them withstrategies and approaches
(00:56):
whereby they can do the samething for other small business
owners.
So it's really a forcemultiplier where you know, I can
work with a few smallbusinesses and then I can work
with a few coaches who, in turn,can work with some small
businesses and we get moreimpact for more people.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I love that, I love that and how you know.
Obviously you didn't startovernight doing that stuff.
How did you, how did you buildthat up?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Gosh, you know it's really been a lifelong journey.
I've always been interested inbusiness and entrepreneurial
activities, started out as anelementary school kid.
The excess tomatoes andcucumbers that were in the
garden.
I took them door to door andsold them and got to the point
(01:39):
where the neighbors would stopme and say so, when is the
produce coming in?
Neighbors would stop me and sayso, when is the produce coming
in?
And so it's really been truly alifelong journey.
And working with tech startupsto coaching businesses, to you
name it, large and small.
So you know, really the themethroughout has been how to
(02:00):
impact other people and how towork together to get the most
benefit to the most folks impactother people and how to work
together to get the most benefitto the most folks.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Man, you were a healthier salesman back in the
day than I was when I was inmiddle school.
I'll just give you a quicklittle insight.
Middle school I went to thelocal donut shop and I would buy
a dozen donuts and they werelike this big, they were huge,
and I would sell them.
I would buy them for a dollarand sell them for $3 to my
classmates, so like.
But you are so much healthierselling the vegetables as
(02:32):
opposed to the donuts.
So I like your style.
If you can sell vegetables, youcan sell anything, my friend.
Nice work.
So what have you seen withbusinesses right now that are
like where's the bottlenecksthat you've been seeing, with a
lot of people trying to scalelately?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Wow, and you know that's an excellent question.
And right now is a uniquephenomenon in that you know
we've been through a lot, youknow there's COVID, and the list
goes on Right.
You know we've been through alot, you know there's COVID, and
(03:21):
the list goes on Right.
But what's really the biggestbottleneck, if you will, is
people's uncertainty and thefear factor, where I think a lot
of them are sitting on theirhands and doing nothing.
And of course, that really is aconcern, because if you do
nothing long enough, inevitablythe outcome is not a good thing.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Right, right.
And how many times that you seethat people are just polarized
by fear as a whole man.
And then what happens, is it?
It almost creates likecomplacency, because like we're
getting, we're getting by, butlike to me and tell me if I'm
wrong.
But like complacency to me islike the killer of most business
(03:57):
.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Oh, you're so right, you're so right.
And you know that hesitation,the fear that leads to the
inertia and that complacency,you know.
I think back to COVID.
I had two clients.
One was both constructioncompanies.
One was ready to decide how tomake things happen.
During that lockdown and allthat craziness, they doubled
(04:20):
their revenue and profit.
Another business, same areas,similar kind of deal.
The guy freaked out, laid offall his people, sold off
everything and retired.
Oh my God, he did okay, but hisbusiness was gone.
His people had to go figure out.
Okay, now what?
Speaker 1 (04:37):
And so to me that's just a classic example, and
(05:14):
today I look at, for example,people who were heavily
dependent on federal contractand and maybe actually end up
thriving in spite of it, whileeverybody else is going out of
business of the buffalo right,the buffalo is one of the few
animals that charges into thestorm and you know like, instead
of waiting for that storm tocome and just like just pummel
you, you just get through it andget on the other side, and
(05:37):
usually what happens is you'refarther ahead than most other
people in that situation,because you dealt with the hard
stuff first.
Then I guess the second pieceof that is like being able to
build in a bear market versus abull market.
You know, like what?
Typically, what we've seen islike when stuff is, you know,
going sideways, or like evenlike when people are sitting on
(06:00):
their hands, or like even whenthey start calling it a
recession or whatever.
It is the people that build inthese times.
They can make it in any time.
When it's, it's when, whenthere's when stuff's going well,
there's, a lot of people arelike, yep, I'm, I'm the best
ever, right, but when stuff isgoing sideways and you're like,
(06:23):
hey, I, I I'm just gettingthrough, but I'm still building
into this, those are thecompanies that, like, are really
going to take over when itstarts going well?
Can you comment on those, thosetwo things that I talked about?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more because really that
strength that's built throughpushing into the adversity.
You know if you can pushforward in the worst of times,
you can just skyrocket whenthings are good.
Plus, you've got some momentumwhere you're not doing a cold
start and you're ahead ofeverybody else Because you're
(06:56):
pressing forward.
You're actually leaning into anopportunity where you can just,
you know, break loose as soonas things improve, whereas
everybody else kind of comesalong and they start off the
same line at the same time.
And then a lot of times that'swhere we keep getting those
repeating cycles of businessowners don't want to compete a
(07:20):
price, but they've avoidedanything that they might
perceive as risky or where it'sjust a lot of effort.
So at the end of the day theywait until things are better and
then they all end up saying thesame thing and competing on
price and of course what they'rereally doing is entering a race
to the bottom.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Right.
One of my mentors in businesstold me, in the absence of value
, it always comes back to price,absolutely so how do you coach
your clients to be able tohandle that objection around
price and more about value?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, and actually in Time for Profit, one of my
books, I'll talk specificallyabout the fact that, because a
small business can't afford abig hammer like the big global
companies have.
Where you know, companies thateverybody on the planet knows by
name still spend hundreds ofmillions of dollars on marketing
and advertising because theywant to stay where they are, are
(08:24):
and they can afford to do that,but for an average business
they can't and they can'temulate what the big globals do.
So what they really need to dois have a sharper nail.
In other words, they need toreally have a tight, spot-on
understanding of who their idealclient is, how they
differentiate themselves fromthe competition and the specific
(08:46):
value benefit that their idealclients get from working with
them.
Therefore, it's not a commodity.
How cheap is the whateveravailable for it's?
These folks get me as theconsumer or as the customer, and
they understand exactly what myproblem is and they've got a
(09:07):
spot-on solution for me, andthat sets you apart to where you
know.
There's always someconsideration of, you know, best
value, but there's a lot moreto value than price.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I love that.
I couldn't have said it better.
So you basically have to be theLiam Neeson of your business
industry.
You have to have a particularset of skills.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I love that analogy.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
So that's the kind of you know, if you get that
granular with what you do now,you set yourself apart from
everybody else and your valueproposition is much more
succinct and people willremember you because of it.
Yep, spot on.
And it and your valueproposition is is much more
succinct and people willremember you because of it.
Yep, spot on, love it, awesome.
So one of the things and wetalked about this a little bit
(09:53):
already but like I mean theindustries and the markets are,
are, are kind of like in flex.
Uh, how, how do people stayahead of industry trends right
now?
Man, like I mean, with whatyou've got going on, you're
always kind of seeing what'shappening.
Can you give some advice tosome business owners right now
on that?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, and you know, one of the interesting things is
talking to business owners veryregularly.
If you ask them so, do you seea certain thing happening in
your industry?
It's really interesting howoften business owners will say
well, you know, I really don'tpay any attention to my industry
.
Oh, that's the kiss of death,exactly, and if that in fact is
(10:36):
true, you're right, it's kiss ofdeath little bit of.
I'm confused by this is how doyou compete, even if it's only
on price, if you're completelyout of the loop on what's going
on in your, with yourcompetition in your industry?
So, opposite that, investingenergy in being aware of
(10:58):
competition, what's going on inthe industry, and how you can
really separate yourself fromthe pack.
And you got to look at thecompetition so that you can see
what everybody's saying, whateverybody's doing, and not do
that.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I played in college for volleyball and one of the
things if you're not scoutingyour competition ahead of time
and you're coming in with a gameplan, you're basically just
telling us like we want to getour tails kicked as soon as we
come on the court.
So, like you know just you knowstaying in your own little
bubble and, like you know,sticking your head in the sand.
(11:35):
Where do you go with that?
How do you, how do you help abusiness owner that that feels
that way?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
help a business owner that that feels that way.
Well, and you know, sometimesit's it's by uh, awareness of
impact.
And what comes to mind in thatcontext is think about all of
the huge companies that at onepoint were the dominant player
in whatever blockbuster video.
You know where they thoughtthey had it nailed and they
weren't paying attention, andthey're gone.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
And I could name for the rest of the day examples
like that.
But to help businesses of allsizes understand that, if you're
not looking at a couple ofthings one, what's the
competition doing?
What's technology's impact,because that's become huge, and
how can you separate yourselffrom every asset, a facet of
(12:29):
business is affected bytechnology in one way or another
(12:50):
.
Right now right it absolutely is, in fact, internally with, with
coaches.
We talk about how critical atool AI has become really in
everything.
But you know critical a tool AIhas become really in everything
.
But you know, for most businessowners, if they're not
understanding, first of all,it's not a alternative to us.
(13:11):
It's a very powerful tool forhuman beings to use and for
business owners to leverage andunderstanding how to really take
advantage of that and stay insync with that, as it benefits
growth and innovation and allthe different things that keep
(13:31):
us sharp, such that we can havepeople do more valuable work.
Really let the AI providestronger foundations so that we
get the opportunity to continueto thrive as we're utilizing
those things.
And I think about people thatsay, well, I'm not going to get
into AI.
It reminds me of the point intime when people thought that
(13:56):
automobiles were passing fast.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, yeah.
And the thing that I see too islike, uh, there's a lot of
people that live in fear becauseof those things Like, and it's
the fear of the unknown insteadof like diving into it just a
little bit, as long as it's notTerminator two, skynet type of
(14:19):
stuff, like this stuff is likewhere it's actually going to
help you be more productive.
And you know, you know, maybeit's a shameless plug, but you
know synergists, we can helpwith this kind of stuff.
This is what we focus on is theAI side of stuff, but the you
know it's, it's putting theright, the right type of
technology into your business.
(14:40):
So then now you're way moreproductive, or your team is way
more productive to be able togrow and enhance your business.
So then now you're way moreproductive, or your team is way
more productive to be able togrow and enhance your business.
Would you agree?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Oh, totally agree, yeah, and I'm glad you did the
shameless plug, because thereare certain things that we
should own and there are certainthings we should partner with
people who really are doing alot of that heavy lifting and
keeping current, so we don'thave to be as deep in the weeds
with those things.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Absolutely.
Cause then you get better atdoing what you do.
That's right.
Cause I to me like I don't.
I don't want to be my ownassistant, I suck at that job.
And like I would rather makemore money by doing more sales,
whether it's being able to getmore contracting, painting jobs
(15:28):
or whatever role that I am in ina certain industry.
I would rather be good at whatI do than trying to be my own
assistant.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Oh, you're so right and you think about.
A joke that I use once in awhile is a lot of small business
owners are truly CEOs, chiefeverything officers.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
And it's a fear thing .
They're afraid to let go,they're concerned that if they
don't do it, it's equip peopleto do things and empower them to
do things and have proceduresso there's a consistent,
(16:10):
sustainable and repeatable model.
And that's all stuff that Ilike to get into with small
business owners, because it'soverwhelming, it's exhausting
trying to do everything all byyourself and it's such a huge
limiter trying to do everythingall by yourself and it's such a
huge limiter.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So how many, how many businesses have you seen along
the way that have grown up fromlike that?
They started on their own andthen now they've grown to I
don't know?
Maybe a half dozen, maybe 10people, but they're still trying
to like manage everythingthemselves instead of being able
to, because maybe they're notgood at understanding how to
(16:44):
build standing operatingprocedures or certain aspects of
processes that can reallyincrease the functionality and
the profitability of a business.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, and it's common , very, very common.
Because you have that.
You know this company company.
They've been in business 20years and their revenue is x and
it's like they hit a ceiling.
Well, the limitation typicallyis the owner.
It's a founder syndrome problemand sometimes it's a matter of
helping the the founder of thebusiness owner, understand that
(17:22):
it's okay to let go of somethings, but not just to throw it
out the window, and, whetherthey're doing things themselves
or having others do them, togive them specific strategies
and implementation processes andthat's, in time, time for
profit.
We get into some of that of youknow.
Here's what you need to know.
We get into some of that of youknow.
Here's what you need to know.
(17:43):
And what you need to know iseverywhere.
Everybody gives you that, buthere's what you need to do to
get from knowing it to having itas part of what you do every
day.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
And that's really the secret sauce.
So I'm going to go a little bitmore into our conversation that
we've had in the past for ouraudience, to our conversation
that we've had in the past forour audience, that you actually
took me through an assessment ofcertain things that could help
grow our business at a certainlevel, at different ways, and it
was really revealing and youcould talk about this too that,
(18:19):
like being open and honest aboutyour business, if you didn't
know certain things about yourbusiness or different levels of
it, it's amazing where thatprofitability can really scale
pretty quickly.
And that's the assessment thatyou put me through.
So go ahead and talk a littlebit more about that.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, and, Ryan, thanks for mentioning that,
because it's it's kind of thecase of we don't know what we
don't know.
Right, and most everybody inbusiness whether it's a doctor,
a dentist, you know a plumbingcontractor, a hairdresser, you
name it they know what they doand they know it really well
(18:59):
typically, yeah, but they'reoftentimes never equipped with
the nuts and bolts of okay, howdo I run a business while I'm
doing my business?
And even people with MBAs,oftentimes going through that
process, like what you and I did, they'll say you know what.
(19:21):
They didn't cover any of thiswhen I got my MBA and what this
is about is those you know,exposing those things that we
need.
We don't know, we don't know,and then, once we know it,
having the courage to recognizethat I can either just continue
(19:42):
on the way I am and you know,continue to get the outcome I've
always gotten and we all knowwhat that's the definition of
right or we can recognize thatyou know there are some very
specific things and it's notlike I have to take a bulldozer
through the front door.
It's small, incremental changesthat come together and create a
(20:04):
compound impact, like what youand I looked at with your
business.
Right, it's like this and thisand this, and you put it all
together and it's a prettystriking impact.
But each little piece along theway is a doable task that you
can get your head around and putin play.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
And this is where I think having a coach is really
beneficial.
And I'll just kind of use theanalogy of.
I'm a big sports fan.
So, like back in the day,michael Jordan, mj he was, he
was the goat, the greatest ofall time in basketball and but
he didn't start there.
(20:44):
He had Doug Collins as a as acoach, who was a very good coach
.
They made the playoffs all thetime, but he didn't get past the
certain round.
He got.
He got kicked out by the, the,the Pistons, a couple of years
in a row and he lost a coupleother teams along the way.
And then Phil Jackson came inand then Phil Jackson and him
won six championships togetherbecause it was a, it was a
(21:07):
different voice.
He had the right coaching atthe right time with the right
people surrounded around him andwatched what could happen.
So that's my plug for you andthe gangster that you are in the
side of business coaching.
So you know it really takespeople to another level as
having a business coach.
(21:27):
So kudos to you, sir.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Thank you so much, ryan, and I appreciate what you
said.
And I have coaches, I coachcoaches and all of us if we want
to really be at the top of ourgame.
I love the analogy because youthink about it.
I don't care if it's tennis,golf, football, basketball the
people that really are top oftheir game and really are making
(21:52):
things happen.
They all have coaches.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Absolutely, and that's that's where cause you
can't see it all, you reallycan't.
Yeah, I mean, even as abusiness owner, like I try to
stay above, like I try to stayat like 10,000 foot view.
Like I have 15 employees thatwork for me, I have a sales team
of six or eight people rightnow my, my sales team in the
(22:18):
process and the director ofoperations handles a lot of that
kind of stuff.
They're like the grass, they're, they're on the ground ground
making sure that all thoseoperations are happening.
I try to stay at five to 10,000feet, but there's like the
30,000 foot view that I'mmissing and that's the thing
that people can't.
Like you can't, you got to getout of your own way.
(22:38):
Like you've got to be able tohave that coach, like that's
seen, it been through it allwith so many other people.
And like, hey, you want to takeyour business to another level.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Here's the things that you're missing.
You're.
Oh my god, why didn't I seethat?
It's because, like I haven'tbeen through it before, you have
.
Well, and ryan, remember, whenwe first started talking, we
looked at, I asked you you knowhow how much time, uh, business
owners in your, in your industry, spend not fighting fires and
working in their business, butactually working on their
business.
Right, I went into the formulaof the specific things to work
on and for most business owners,before I show them that they
(23:20):
work in their business becausestuff's on fire and it's
comfortable, they know how towork in their business.
But a lot of them, if you said,okay, do you spend 20% of your
time working on your business,and whether you're spending any
time on it or up to 20%, whatspecifically are you working on?
(23:40):
Because a lot of times you say,yeah, everybody knows we should
work on our businesses, butthen, if you follow that up with
, what specifically would youwork on during that work on your
business time?
What specifically would youwork on during that work on your
business time?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Most people have never been equipped with
specific things that make senseto get a return on investment.
For that time, I love it.
I love it.
Couldn't have said it better.
So, as we've kind of, you know,wrapping this thing up, one of
the things that I always askpeople is like what's one piece
of advice that you would give tosomebody that's like starting
their entrepreneurial journey?
People is like what's one pieceof advice that you would give
to somebody that's like startingtheir entrepreneurial journey?
Is it like, um, let me, let megive you two scenarios, and this
(24:18):
is what I like hearing frombusiness coaches Is it better to
um to to start your ownbusiness or to buy a business?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Ah, wow, um, you know there's trade-offs.
And let me start with buy abusiness.
Some years ago a friend of minewas deciding to move from a
large corporate kind ofsituation where he had some
money coming with him and he'strying to decide what should I
do do?
And uh, what he finally landedon was a used auto parts, uh
(24:54):
salvage yard.
And he said this thing it's.
I've got people that that knowthat industry inside out.
They love doing it.
I just have to show up, do thebooks and keep an eye on things.
And he said what I realized isthe less sexy at a cocktail
party a business opportunity isthe better investment.
So I say that to say if you'regoing to buy a business, be
(25:19):
thoughtful about what you'regetting, what its impact is
going to be, and if it'ssomething that works for you.
That would be the one thing.
And then the other piece of itis if your heart and soul is
into it's got to be my baby andI'm going to start it from
scratch make a look and be surethat it really is something that
(25:39):
solves a problem that somebodyelse is aware they have and that
they really want a solution,because if they don't want what
you got.
I don't care what you do.
You really don't have abusiness.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Man, you are spot on with all of this stuff today.
So I, man, thank you so muchfor for for coming on and being
a part of this.
Uh, I could talk to you forhours.
Uh, it's just, it's just adelight to have you on the show
and, um, if people areinterested in your books, if
people are interested in in yourbusiness, how can people get
ahold of you?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
You know, I'm on LinkedIn.
Brent Holtman is how to get tome on LinkedIn.
That's always a good way toconnect.
And then the other would beKairosprofitcoachcom, and that's
K-A-I-R-O-S profit P-R-O-F-I-Tcoach.
So all just a string com andactually the Time for Profit
P-R-O-F-I-T Coach.
So I'll just the string com andactually the Time for Profit
(26:35):
book is available there as afree download.
My Engage how to Attract andInspire High-Performance Teams
is available on Amazon and Ithink I may be the only Brett
Holtman author on Amazon withthat book.
So LinkedIn, my website,kairosprofitcoachcom, or if you
(26:56):
want to look at the leadershipbook, which is fairly
autobiographical.
So if you feel offended by it,no, I'm really not talking about
you, I'm talking about myself.
So those are probably the bestways.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
And all that stuff is down in the product, in the
description below, in thecomments as well.
Uh, brent, it's been anabsolute pleasure having you on.
Thank you so much for being apart of the scaling up success
podcast Always a pleasure rightTake care.
Awesome.
Thank you so much Once again,Ryan Van Arm, scaling up success
podcast brought to you bysynergist.
Have a wonderful day everyone.
What's up everybody this Ryan Van Ornam back with
another episode of scaling upsuccess power by synergist today
I have Brent Holtman on with metoday of Cairo's profit coach,
brent, how are you doing today,sir?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm outstanding thanks for asking how about you,
ryan?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
man, I'm fantastic.
If I was any better, I'd be you.
You, man.
You are just living your bestlife.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat you got going on.
Let's dive right into there.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, outstanding.
Thank you for that.
Yeah, so really, kairos ProfitCoaches has two focuses One, I
work with small businesses tohelp those business owners to
scale up, to increase theirrevenue and their profitability,
and then, in addition to that,I work with small business
coaches to equip them withstrategies and approaches
(00:56):
whereby they can do the samething for other small business
owners.
So it's really a forcemultiplier where you know, I can
work with a few smallbusinesses and then I can work
with a few coaches who, in turn,can work with some small
businesses and we get moreimpact for more people.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I love that, I love that and how you know.
Obviously you didn't startovernight doing that stuff.
How did you, how did you buildthat up?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Gosh, you know it's really been a lifelong journey.
I've always been interested inbusiness and entrepreneurial
activities, started out as anelementary school kid.
The excess tomatoes andcucumbers that were in the
garden.
I took them door to door andsold them and got to the point
(01:39):
where the neighbors would stopme and say so, when is the
produce coming in?
Neighbors would stop me and sayso, when is the produce coming
in?
And so it's really been truly alifelong journey.
And working with tech startupsto coaching businesses, to you
name it, large and small.
So you know, really the themethroughout has been how to
(02:00):
impact other people and how towork together to get the most
benefit to the most folks impactother people and how to work
together to get the most benefitto the most folks.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Man, you were a healthier salesman back in the
day than I was when I was inmiddle school.
I'll just give you a quicklittle insight.
Middle school I went to thelocal donut shop and I would buy
a dozen donuts and they werelike this big, they were huge,
and I would sell them.
I would buy them for a dollarand sell them for $3 to my
classmates, so like.
But you are so much healthierselling the vegetables as
(02:32):
opposed to the donuts.
So I like your style.
If you can sell vegetables, youcan sell anything, my friend.
Nice work.
So what have you seen withbusinesses right now that are
like where's the bottlenecksthat you've been seeing, with a
lot of people trying to scalelately?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Wow, and you know that's an excellent question.
And right now is a uniquephenomenon in that you know
we've been through a lot, youknow there's COVID, and the list
goes on Right.
You know we've been through alot, you know there's COVID, and
(03:21):
the list goes on Right.
But what's really the biggestbottleneck, if you will, is
people's uncertainty and thefear factor, where I think a lot
of them are sitting on theirhands and doing nothing.
And of course, that really is aconcern, because if you do
nothing long enough, inevitablythe outcome is not a good thing.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Right, right.
And how many times that you seethat people are just polarized
by fear as a whole man.
And then what happens, is it?
It almost creates likecomplacency, because like we're
getting, we're getting by, butlike to me and tell me if I'm
wrong.
But like complacency to me islike the killer of most business
(03:57):
.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Oh, you're so right, you're so right.
And you know that hesitation,the fear that leads to the
inertia and that complacency,you know.
I think back to COVID.
I had two clients.
One was both constructioncompanies.
One was ready to decide how tomake things happen.
During that lockdown and allthat craziness, they doubled
(04:20):
their revenue and profit.
Another business, same areas,similar kind of deal.
The guy freaked out, laid offall his people, sold off
everything and retired.
Oh my God, he did okay, but hisbusiness was gone.
His people had to go figure out.
Okay, now what?
Speaker 1 (04:37):
And so to me that's just a classic example, and
(05:14):
today I look at, for example,people who were heavily
dependent on federal contractand and maybe actually end up
thriving in spite of it, whileeverybody else is going out of
business of the buffalo right,the buffalo is one of the few
animals that charges into thestorm and you know like, instead
of waiting for that storm tocome and just like just pummel
you, you just get through it andget on the other side, and
(05:37):
usually what happens is you'refarther ahead than most other
people in that situation,because you dealt with the hard
stuff first.
Then I guess the second pieceof that is like being able to
build in a bear market versus abull market.
You know, like what?
Typically, what we've seen islike when stuff is, you know,
going sideways, or like evenlike when people are sitting on
(06:00):
their hands, or like even whenthey start calling it a
recession or whatever.
It is the people that build inthese times.
They can make it in any time.
When it's, it's when, whenthere's when stuff's going well,
there's, a lot of people arelike, yep, I'm, I'm the best
ever, right, but when stuff isgoing sideways and you're like,
(06:23):
hey, I, I I'm just gettingthrough, but I'm still building
into this, those are thecompanies that, like, are really
going to take over when itstarts going well?
Can you comment on those, thosetwo things that I talked about?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more because really that
strength that's built throughpushing into the adversity.
You know if you can pushforward in the worst of times,
you can just skyrocket whenthings are good.
Plus, you've got some momentumwhere you're not doing a cold
start and you're ahead ofeverybody else Because you're
(06:56):
pressing forward.
You're actually leaning into anopportunity where you can just,
you know, break loose as soonas things improve, whereas
everybody else kind of comesalong and they start off the
same line at the same time.
And then a lot of times that'swhere we keep getting those
repeating cycles of businessowners don't want to compete a
(07:20):
price, but they've avoidedanything that they might
perceive as risky or where it'sjust a lot of effort.
So at the end of the day theywait until things are better and
then they all end up saying thesame thing and competing on
price and of course what they'rereally doing is entering a race
to the bottom.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Right.
One of my mentors in businesstold me, in the absence of value
, it always comes back to price,absolutely so how do you coach
your clients to be able tohandle that objection around
price and more about value?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, and actually in Time for Profit, one of my
books, I'll talk specificallyabout the fact that, because a
small business can't afford abig hammer like the big global
companies have.
Where you know, companies thateverybody on the planet knows by
name still spend hundreds ofmillions of dollars on marketing
and advertising because theywant to stay where they are, are
(08:24):
and they can afford to do that,but for an average business
they can't and they can'temulate what the big globals do.
So what they really need to dois have a sharper nail.
In other words, they need toreally have a tight, spot-on
understanding of who their idealclient is, how they
differentiate themselves fromthe competition and the specific
(08:46):
value benefit that their idealclients get from working with
them.
Therefore, it's not a commodity.
How cheap is the whateveravailable for it's?
These folks get me as theconsumer or as the customer, and
they understand exactly what myproblem is and they've got a
(09:07):
spot-on solution for me, andthat sets you apart to where you
know.
There's always someconsideration of, you know, best
value, but there's a lot moreto value than price.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I love that.
I couldn't have said it better.
So you basically have to be theLiam Neeson of your business
industry.
You have to have a particularset of skills.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I love that analogy.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
So that's the kind of you know, if you get that
granular with what you do now,you set yourself apart from
everybody else and your valueproposition is much more
succinct and people willremember you because of it.
Yep, spot on.
And it and your valueproposition is is much more
succinct and people willremember you because of it.
Yep, spot on, love it, awesome.
So one of the things and wetalked about this a little bit
(09:53):
already but like I mean theindustries and the markets are,
are, are kind of like in flex.
Uh, how, how do people stayahead of industry trends right
now?
Man, like I mean, with whatyou've got going on, you're
always kind of seeing what'shappening.
Can you give some advice tosome business owners right now
on that?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, and you know, one of the interesting things is
talking to business owners veryregularly.
If you ask them so, do you seea certain thing happening in
your industry?
It's really interesting howoften business owners will say
well, you know, I really don'tpay any attention to my industry
.
Oh, that's the kiss of death,exactly, and if that in fact is
(10:36):
true, you're right, it's kiss ofdeath little bit of.
I'm confused by this is how doyou compete, even if it's only
on price, if you're completelyout of the loop on what's going
on in your, with yourcompetition in your industry?
So, opposite that, investingenergy in being aware of
(10:58):
competition, what's going on inthe industry, and how you can
really separate yourself fromthe pack.
And you got to look at thecompetition so that you can see
what everybody's saying, whateverybody's doing, and not do
that.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I played in college for volleyball and one of the
things if you're not scoutingyour competition ahead of time
and you're coming in with a gameplan, you're basically just
telling us like we want to getour tails kicked as soon as we
come on the court.
So, like you know just you knowstaying in your own little
bubble and, like you know,sticking your head in the sand.
(11:35):
Where do you go with that?
How do you, how do you help abusiness owner that that feels
that way?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
help a business owner that that feels that way.
Well, and you know, sometimesit's it's by uh, awareness of
impact.
And what comes to mind in thatcontext is think about all of
the huge companies that at onepoint were the dominant player
in whatever blockbuster video.
You know where they thoughtthey had it nailed and they
weren't paying attention, andthey're gone.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
And I could name for the rest of the day examples
like that.
But to help businesses of allsizes understand that, if you're
not looking at a couple ofthings one, what's the
competition doing?
What's technology's impact,because that's become huge, and
how can you separate yourselffrom every asset, a facet of
(12:29):
business is affected bytechnology in one way or another
(12:50):
.
Right now right it absolutely is, in fact, internally with, with
coaches.
We talk about how critical atool AI has become really in
everything.
But you know critical a tool AIhas become really in everything
.
But you know, for most businessowners, if they're not
understanding, first of all,it's not a alternative to us.
(13:11):
It's a very powerful tool forhuman beings to use and for
business owners to leverage andunderstanding how to really take
advantage of that and stay insync with that, as it benefits
growth and innovation and allthe different things that keep
(13:31):
us sharp, such that we can havepeople do more valuable work.
Really let the AI providestronger foundations so that we
get the opportunity to continueto thrive as we're utilizing
those things.
And I think about people thatsay, well, I'm not going to get
into AI.
It reminds me of the point intime when people thought that
(13:56):
automobiles were passing fast.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, yeah.
And the thing that I see too islike, uh, there's a lot of
people that live in fear becauseof those things Like, and it's
the fear of the unknown insteadof like diving into it just a
little bit, as long as it's notTerminator two, skynet type of
(14:19):
stuff, like this stuff is likewhere it's actually going to
help you be more productive.
And you know, you know, maybeit's a shameless plug, but you
know synergists, we can helpwith this kind of stuff.
This is what we focus on is theAI side of stuff, but the you
know it's, it's putting theright, the right type of
technology into your business.
(14:40):
So then now you're way moreproductive, or your team is way
more productive to be able togrow and enhance your business.
So then now you're way moreproductive, or your team is way
more productive to be able togrow and enhance your business.
Would you agree?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Oh, totally agree, yeah, and I'm glad you did the
shameless plug, because thereare certain things that we
should own and there are certainthings we should partner with
people who really are doing alot of that heavy lifting and
keeping current, so we don'thave to be as deep in the weeds
with those things.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Absolutely.
Cause then you get better atdoing what you do.
That's right.
Cause I to me like I don't.
I don't want to be my ownassistant, I suck at that job.
And like I would rather makemore money by doing more sales,
whether it's being able to getmore contracting, painting jobs
(15:28):
or whatever role that I am in ina certain industry.
I would rather be good at whatI do than trying to be my own
assistant.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Oh, you're so right and you think about.
A joke that I use once in awhile is a lot of small business
owners are truly CEOs, chiefeverything officers.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
And it's a fear thing .
They're afraid to let go,they're concerned that if they
don't do it, it's equip peopleto do things and empower them to
do things and have proceduresso there's a consistent,
(16:10):
sustainable and repeatable model.
And that's all stuff that Ilike to get into with small
business owners, because it'soverwhelming, it's exhausting
trying to do everything all byyourself and it's such a huge
limiter trying to do everythingall by yourself and it's such a
huge limiter.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So how many, how many businesses have you seen along
the way that have grown up fromlike that?
They started on their own andthen now they've grown to I
don't know?
Maybe a half dozen, maybe 10people, but they're still trying
to like manage everythingthemselves instead of being able
to, because maybe they're notgood at understanding how to
(16:44):
build standing operatingprocedures or certain aspects of
processes that can reallyincrease the functionality and
the profitability of a business.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, and it's common , very, very common.
Because you have that.
You know this company company.
They've been in business 20years and their revenue is x and
it's like they hit a ceiling.
Well, the limitation typicallyis the owner.
It's a founder syndrome problemand sometimes it's a matter of
helping the the founder of thebusiness owner, understand that
(17:22):
it's okay to let go of somethings, but not just to throw it
out the window, and, whetherthey're doing things themselves
or having others do them, togive them specific strategies
and implementation processes andthat's, in time, time for
profit.
We get into some of that of youknow.
Here's what you need to know.
We get into some of that of youknow.
Here's what you need to know.
(17:43):
And what you need to know iseverywhere.
Everybody gives you that, buthere's what you need to do to
get from knowing it to having itas part of what you do every
day.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
And that's really the secret sauce.
So I'm going to go a little bitmore into our conversation that
we've had in the past for ouraudience, to our conversation
that we've had in the past forour audience, that you actually
took me through an assessment ofcertain things that could help
grow our business at a certainlevel, at different ways, and it
was really revealing and youcould talk about this too that,
(18:19):
like being open and honest aboutyour business, if you didn't
know certain things about yourbusiness or different levels of
it, it's amazing where thatprofitability can really scale
pretty quickly.
And that's the assessment thatyou put me through.
So go ahead and talk a littlebit more about that.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, and, Ryan, thanks for mentioning that,
because it's it's kind of thecase of we don't know what we
don't know.
Right, and most everybody inbusiness whether it's a doctor,
a dentist, you know a plumbingcontractor, a hairdresser, you
name it they know what they doand they know it really well
(18:59):
typically, yeah, but they'reoftentimes never equipped with
the nuts and bolts of okay, howdo I run a business while I'm
doing my business?
And even people with MBAs,oftentimes going through that
process, like what you and I did, they'll say you know what.
(19:21):
They didn't cover any of thiswhen I got my MBA and what this
is about is those you know,exposing those things that we
need.
We don't know, we don't know,and then, once we know it,
having the courage to recognizethat I can either just continue
(19:42):
on the way I am and you know,continue to get the outcome I've
always gotten and we all knowwhat that's the definition of
right or we can recognize thatyou know there are some very
specific things and it's notlike I have to take a bulldozer
through the front door.
It's small, incremental changesthat come together and create a
(20:04):
compound impact, like what youand I looked at with your
business.
Right, it's like this and thisand this, and you put it all
together and it's a prettystriking impact.
But each little piece along theway is a doable task that you
can get your head around and putin play.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
And this is where I think having a coach is really
beneficial.
And I'll just kind of use theanalogy of.
I'm a big sports fan.
So, like back in the day,michael Jordan, mj he was, he
was the goat, the greatest ofall time in basketball and but
he didn't start there.
(20:44):
He had Doug Collins as a as acoach, who was a very good coach
.
They made the playoffs all thetime, but he didn't get past the
certain round.
He got.
He got kicked out by the, the,the Pistons, a couple of years
in a row and he lost a coupleother teams along the way.
And then Phil Jackson came inand then Phil Jackson and him
won six championships togetherbecause it was a, it was a
(21:07):
different voice.
He had the right coaching atthe right time with the right
people surrounded around him andwatched what could happen.
So that's my plug for you andthe gangster that you are in the
side of business coaching.
So you know it really takespeople to another level as
having a business coach.
(21:27):
So kudos to you, sir.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Thank you so much, ryan, and I appreciate what you
said.
And I have coaches, I coachcoaches and all of us if we want
to really be at the top of ourgame.
I love the analogy because youthink about it.
I don't care if it's tennis,golf, football, basketball the
people that really are top oftheir game and really are making
(21:52):
things happen.
They all have coaches.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Absolutely, and that's that's where cause you
can't see it all, you reallycan't.
Yeah, I mean, even as abusiness owner, like I try to
stay above, like I try to stayat like 10,000 foot view.
Like I have 15 employees thatwork for me, I have a sales team
of six or eight people rightnow my, my sales team in the
(22:18):
process and the director ofoperations handles a lot of that
kind of stuff.
They're like the grass, they're, they're on the ground ground
making sure that all thoseoperations are happening.
I try to stay at five to 10,000feet, but there's like the
30,000 foot view that I'mmissing and that's the thing
that people can't.
Like you can't, you got to getout of your own way.
(22:38):
Like you've got to be able tohave that coach, like that's
seen, it been through it allwith so many other people.
And like, hey, you want to takeyour business to another level.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Here's the things that you're missing.
You're.
Oh my god, why didn't I seethat?
It's because, like I haven'tbeen through it before, you have
.
Well, and ryan, remember, whenwe first started talking, we
looked at, I asked you you knowhow how much time, uh, business
owners in your, in your industry, spend not fighting fires and
working in their business, butactually working on their
business.
Right, I went into the formulaof the specific things to work
on and for most business owners,before I show them that they
(23:20):
work in their business becausestuff's on fire and it's
comfortable, they know how towork in their business.
But a lot of them, if you said,okay, do you spend 20% of your
time working on your business,and whether you're spending any
time on it or up to 20%, whatspecifically are you working on?
(23:40):
Because a lot of times you say,yeah, everybody knows we should
work on our businesses, butthen, if you follow that up with
, what specifically would youwork on during that work on your
business time?
What specifically would youwork on during that work on your
business time?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Most people have never been equipped with
specific things that make senseto get a return on investment.
For that time, I love it.
I love it.
Couldn't have said it better.
So, as we've kind of, you know,wrapping this thing up, one of
the things that I always askpeople is like what's one piece
of advice that you would give tosomebody that's like starting
their entrepreneurial journey?
People is like what's one pieceof advice that you would give
to somebody that's like startingtheir entrepreneurial journey?
Is it like, um, let me, let megive you two scenarios, and this
(24:18):
is what I like hearing frombusiness coaches Is it better to
um to to start your ownbusiness or to buy a business?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Ah, wow, um, you know there's trade-offs.
And let me start with buy abusiness.
Some years ago a friend of minewas deciding to move from a
large corporate kind ofsituation where he had some
money coming with him and he'strying to decide what should I
do do?
And uh, what he finally landedon was a used auto parts, uh
(24:54):
salvage yard.
And he said this thing it's.
I've got people that that knowthat industry inside out.
They love doing it.
I just have to show up, do thebooks and keep an eye on things.
And he said what I realized isthe less sexy at a cocktail
party a business opportunity isthe better investment.
So I say that to say if you'regoing to buy a business, be
(25:19):
thoughtful about what you'regetting, what its impact is
going to be, and if it'ssomething that works for you.
That would be the one thing.
And then the other piece of itis if your heart and soul is
into it's got to be my baby andI'm going to start it from
scratch make a look and be surethat it really is something that
(25:39):
solves a problem that somebodyelse is aware they have and that
they really want a solution,because if they don't want what
you got.
I don't care what you do.
You really don't have abusiness.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Man, you are spot on with all of this stuff today.
So I, man, thank you so muchfor for for coming on and being
a part of this.
Uh, I could talk to you forhours.
Uh, it's just, it's just adelight to have you on the show
and, um, if people areinterested in your books, if
people are interested in in yourbusiness, how can people get
ahold of you?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
You know, I'm on LinkedIn.
Brent Holtman is how to get tome on LinkedIn.
That's always a good way toconnect.
And then the other would beKairosprofitcoachcom, and that's
K-A-I-R-O-S profit P-R-O-F-I-Tcoach.
So all just a string com andactually the Time for Profit
P-R-O-F-I-T Coach.
So I'll just the string com andactually the Time for Profit
(26:35):
book is available there as afree download.
My Engage how to Attract andInspire High-Performance Teams
is available on Amazon and Ithink I may be the only Brett
Holtman author on Amazon withthat book.
So LinkedIn, my website,kairosprofitcoachcom, or if you
(26:56):
want to look at the leadershipbook, which is fairly
autobiographical.
So if you feel offended by it,no, I'm really not talking about
you, I'm talking about myself.
So those are probably the bestways.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
And all that stuff is down in the product, in the
description below, in thecomments as well.
Uh, brent, it's been anabsolute pleasure having you on.
Thank you so much for being apart of the scaling up success
podcast Always a pleasure rightTake care.
Awesome.
Thank you so much Once again,Ryan Van Arm, scaling up success
podcast brought to you bysynergist.
Have a wonderful day everyone.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com