February 17, 2025 • 51 mins
Dr. Baron Kelly is not just an acclaimed actor; he's a storyteller who brings the magic of theater to life. His journey from the Metropolitan Opera's children's chorus to Broadway's grand stages is a testament to the power of early artistic exposure. We explore how his childhood in New York, filled with a fascination for old movies, laid the foundation for a career that spans international acclaim. Dr. Kelly's insights into how technology is shaping the theater world offer a fresh perspective on balancing innovation with tradition, all while stressing the importance of authentic representation in media.
Our conversation ventures into the intricate legacy of Black theater, shedding light on the profound influence of legends like Morgan Freeman and Tony Chisholm. Dr. Kelly shares the wisdom imparted by mentors such as Lloyd Richards, emphasizing the transformative role of mentorship in nurturing talent. As we discuss his efforts to honor this legacy through writing and filmmaking, the narrative underscores the global impact of Black actors and the necessity of empowering new voices in storytelling.
The journey doesn't stop at mentorship; it extends to the broader landscape of theater and representation. We touch upon the commercial dynamics of Broadway and the importance of promoting diverse narratives. Dr. Kelly's anecdotes about his experiences and successes weave a tapestry of resilience and dedication, leaving listeners with a powerful message about the importance of perseverance and the joy of supporting others in their artistic endeavors. Join us for a conversation that bridges the past, present, and future of theater, promising to inspire and engage.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Hi, Now, Tia.
Today we're not going to do theinterview because I have to run
out.
You said Friday, is thatcorrect?
Well, go ahead.
How much time do you need?
If you can do this in 40minutes, I can jump in the
shower and get out of here afterthat.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Pressure pressure.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Good to meet you brother Under these
circumstances there?
How?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
you doing man no problem.
This has been a morning of oneof the newspapers.
Well, the PR person called melast night because something
happened when they wererecording some stuff with some
of these people.
And it's the way.
It is no problem.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Thank you, okay, people, and it's the way, it is
no problem.
Thank you, okay.
Well, in that case, let me jumpright into Dr Barron Kelly's
bio.
Barron Kelly is the Marilyn R,baxter and Vilas Distinguished
Achievement Professor of Theaterand Drama and has a joint
appointment with UW-Madison'sDepartment of Liberal Arts and
Applied Studies at theUniversity of Wisconsin-Madison,
(01:47):
he currently holds the ColinCook Professorship of Acting at
the London Academy of Music andDramatic Art.
A former Harvard Faculty Fellow, he is a recent recipient of
both the Kennedy Center AmericanCollege Theater Festival Gold
Medallion and the UniversityResident Theater Association
Excellence in UndergraduateTraining Award.
(02:09):
In 2023, he was formallyinvested into the College of
Fellows of the American Theaterat the Kennedy Center in
Washington DC.
Barron has performedinternationally for the Royal
National Theater of GreatBritain, performed
internationally for the RoyalNational Theatre of Great
Britain, stratford ShakespeareFestival of Canada, national
(02:29):
Theatre of Norway, yermalovaTheatre Moscow, russia,
constance Theatre Athens, greeceAcademy Theatre Dublin,
edinburgh Theatre Festival,bargello, florence, italy, among
others, and his Broadwaycredits include Salome and
(02:49):
Electra.
He has held numerous classicaland contemporary roles for over
30 of America's leading regionaltheaters as well.
His film and television workincludes A Day Without a Mexican
Bird, loving Law and Order andFrasier.
Barron has been a participantat Robert Redford Sundance
(03:12):
Institute and will be seen in asupporting role in the
soon-to-be-releasedpsychological thriller the
Coming, directed by Aaron Greer.
His accolades include winningan Emmy Award and nominations
for the Los Angeles DramaticCircle Award and an Adelco Award
.
He is a four-time FulbrightScholar and has traveled
(03:33):
extensively as a culturalspecialist for the United States
Bureau of Education andCultural Affairs, teaching and
lecturing on the theater on fourcontinents.
Teaching and lecturing on thetheater on four continents.
Professor Kelly has authorednumerous essays, articles and
book chapters in journals andanthologies and has written two
books.
His most recent book isBuilding Embodiment Integrating
(03:56):
Acting, voice and Movement toIlluminate Poetic Texts, with
co-author co-editor KarenKoprianski.
Dr Kelly earned his PhD intheater research from the
University of Wisconsin-Madison,a diploma from London's Royal
Academy of Dramatic Art and anMFA in acting from California
(04:19):
State University, long Beach.
Welcome to the Scratchwork EDUpodcast, dr Barron Kelly.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Welcome, Dr Kelly Welcome.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I personally don't know how you landed into the
arts and theater and acting, soif you don't mind, just maybe
sharing how you knew this may bewhere you should be.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Everyone always asks me that question where you
should be.
Everyone always asks me thatquestion.
You know, growing up in NewYork, you know I used to watch a
lot of, you know, television,you know, way before cable and
all that.
But I used to watch old moviesand a lot of old movies, you
know, and I'd be emotionallymoved by these movies and
(05:03):
sometimes I would be crying fromthe emotion.
And you know, eight years oldand you know, I was terrified.
I didn't know what washappening and I didn't really
discuss that with anybody in thefamily.
And then, just like any otherchild with imagination, you know
, trying to enact whatever I sawon the screen swashbucklers,
you know, errol Flynn and allthe monster movies that I
(05:27):
watched.
And then, when I was about 10or 11, you know, I sang in the
chorus in school and a couple ofmy friends, you know, I went to
a very multicultural elementaryschool in upper Manhattan, up
(05:47):
on Amsterdam Avenue, across fromthe Cloisters, ps 189.
Where actually, you know, anumber of years prior, the great
opera singer Maria Callas wentthere.
I found that out about 10 yearsago.
I was like wow.
And so, anyway, a couple of myfriends, you know they were
talking about auditioning forthe Metropolitan Opera.
I didn't know what that was,all I know.
(06:10):
All I knew was that I wanted tobe with my friends and my
mother came up and talked to theteacher and she said there was
an opportunity for me.
And you know, when my motherasked me and I said I want to do
it, and so my mother took medown to the Metropolitan Opera.
They were auditioning all thesechildren for the children's
chorus and my mother put alittle white shirt on me with a
(06:32):
clip on tie and I went in theroom and sang for the great
Zubin Mehta.
I don't know if you know who heis.
I mean, he's one of the world'sgreat conductors, you know.
And he was in the room and therehearsal pianist was in the
room and you know they asked mewhat I was going to sing for
(06:52):
them you know, this little blackchild at 10, 11 years old and I
said America.
And I must have sang the hellout of America, because then
they started playing around withthe keys and checking out my
range and all that.
And then, you know, two weekslater I get a little postcard in
the mail that I had made theMetropolitan Opera.
(07:14):
So that's where it sort ofstarted, what they call, where
the sawdust went up my nose, andyou know, because people in New
York thought I was going to goto a math and science high
school and my teacher told meabout the High School of
Performing Arts, because I askedif there was a place to teach
(07:35):
people how to, you know, act inmovies and all that you know
theater.
And so that's how it started.
You know, I auditioned fortheed for performing arts and
made it.
They must have thought I wascrazy enough to let me in there
and I joined all those othercrazy kids and so that's where
it started.
(07:56):
But then, you know, there was atrajectory after that, but
that's how it started.
I think I did one play inschool maybe, you know, around
the holidays, but I was.
I was always into sports andall that sort of stuff, but I
had that other side of me, youknow, because I was playing
violin and piano and all of thatsort of stuff, you know.
So that's where it started.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Let's talk about a man in the arts, because you
played sports, but you alsoplayed.
The instruments went into thearts and things like that.
Culturally, was that an easykind of decision or switch over
Like?
Did you struggle with anymasculinity types of challenges
in terms?
Speaker 1 (08:38):
of trajectory.
No, at that time, you know, thearts programs in New York City
were proliferating and so, youknow, there were a lot of kids
in band, you know, and I justhappened to grab it.
At first I was playing pianoand then, you know, I thought
(08:59):
the violin, the sound of theviolin, look, you know, sounded
cool.
And then I, you, and then somepeople would try to tease me.
But a lot of kids carried theirinstruments home during those
days.
So I think it was only later,when I started dancing, taking
dance classes, that the toughguys in the neighborhood would
(09:19):
always question me because I'dalways be going off to take
ballet or modern.
But when they understood that Iwas going off to take ballet or
modern, but when theyunderstood that I was as strong
as they were, or stronger, andthat I could do things like a
gymnast, you know, but they werelike, oh man.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Understood, understood.
So you started the MetropolitanOpera and now you land.
What's your most recentaccomplishment?
I don't want to mess it up, butI know there's something you
will be doing.
One was August Wilson's play,but also in London.
If you could speak to thosecouple of things?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, a couple of months ago.
Well, I went to drama school inLondon.
I went to the Royal Academy ofDramatic Arts and I've been all
over the world, you know, acting, you know in the theater,
broadway, all that sort of stuff.
And I last year I was in Londonteaching and I went over to
(10:20):
Lambda, which is the LondonAcademy of Music and Dramatic
Arts, and they asked me to givea couple of workshops with these
students.
You know, that's one of thebest drama schools in the world,
you know, number two orwhatever and they loved what I
did.
And then they asked me if Iwanted to direct this particular
Shakespeare production lastspring, before I was leaving
(10:42):
London, and I couldn't because Ialready had, you know, a sort
of a conflict in the States withanother show.
And then it was announced inOctober that I'd been named the
Colin Cook Professor of Actingthere, because they love what I
do.
So now I'll be in Londonactually in March for about a
(11:05):
week or so this March and then Igo back to direct an August
Wilson piece.
They asked me which shows wouldI want to do and I gave them a
bunch of titles and you know, itjust so happened that they
liked Joe Turner's Come and Gone.
So now I will be directingtheir graduate actors in a
(11:29):
production, and most of theseactors, of course, are from the
States, the ones that I'm goingto be directing.
So I'm going to be passing thatknowledge on to them, because
when I've gone over to London,I'm a big history buff London, I
, you know.
I'm a big history buff, youknow, and so I talk about the
legacy of Black actors and BlackBritish theater, which a lot of
the Black actors over theredon't really know about, and the
(11:53):
administrators of the schoollove this, because I come in and
I start opening up theconsciousness of all the
students, but particularly theBlack students, and you know.
So it's, it's been a great.
It's been a great situation.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Why would you say sharing that type of history
matters to you.
Where did that love for historyand reading.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
You know I've always been a voracious reader.
So when I was in school, youknow, I always would go to the
library.
You know my mother when she wasin school, I always would go to
the library.
My mother, when she was cominghome from work late, she'd leave
my brother Warren and I, orshe'd say, go to the library and
read books until I come andpick you up.
(12:38):
So books have become my friends, you see.
So I was always fascinated byall the actors that I was seeing
, you know, on television andthe films, and I would read as
much as I could about them.
And then history I startedreading about instances that
(12:59):
dealt with black people that Iwasn't reading about in school
particularly.
I think one of the firstinstances was of a man named
Isaiah Dorman.
Now, most people listening tothis probably won't even know
that name, but Isaiah Dorman wasthe only black man killed at
the Battle of the Little Bighorn.
Some people would remember thename of, maybe, george Custer
(13:21):
when he fought against the Sioux.
The Sioux wiped out his commandin 1876.
But Isaiah Dorman was the blackman that was killed in that
battle in one of the squads thatsplit off from Custer's main
company, and he was married to aSantee Sioux woman and he was a
(13:44):
trapper.
And he was married to a SanteeSioux woman and he was a trapper
and the natives reallyrespected him and the amount of
when he was dying on thebattlefield.
What Sitting Bull did.
The great Sioux warrior cameout and honored him as he was
dying on the battlefield.
I loved all that stuff.
So that's what started me.
And you know, supreme CourtJustice Sotomayor, I read
(14:07):
something where she had said,because she grew up in the Bronx
and she was a voracious reader,and she said that reading books
was her way to escape from thatbedroom in the Bronx.
So you know that's, you know itopens up the mind and it's a
shame that today children I'mspeaking generally, of course,
but teachers are so overloadedthe kids don't have time to read
(14:29):
whole books.
Now, some do, but for the mostpart you know what is it?
Wikipedia or not Wikipedia?
Cliff Notes?
Kids hit a button on thecomputer and the little summary
comes up and you know all that.
But there's something to besaid about reading a book,
smelling a book, particularlythe old books, you know.
Turning a book, that tactileexperience, you know.
(14:51):
So that's stayed with me myentire life.
I have thousands of books,thousands of books.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Tell me from books and turning the pages to now
that you just kind of brought upsomething.
We talk about tech a lot andwhere things are going and how
it's making things faster.
Are you seeing any tech changesin the theater world in terms
of maybe when you used to havethese papers and scripts and sit
(15:20):
down and maybe do a table readand then move into, how are
things being automated, if atall.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Well, no, what you'll see is in classes, but I'm, and
myself and other teachers, somestudents will try to pull
scenes up on phones, you see,because what in the script of
understanding how scriptanalysis works and what you have
to do to break down a script,you need to be able to have the
pages in your hand to write, toanalyze, uh, all of that sort of
(15:49):
stuff.
There's a lot of work that goesinto acting and if you're
really going to do it well anduh, you know that's just script
analysis and what you do, um,and what happens, and even at
read-throughs, table reads, youknow, everybody has their
scripts there because thedramaturg or the historian, to
open it up, thecontextualization of the script
(16:14):
for the actors, if the companyhas a dramaturg who's been hired
to do this, and you know that'sjust the way it goes.
What I'm seeing technologically, and everybody knows this, is
just like computers, the digitalstuff that can be done on the
stages now, the kinds ofprojections, what can be done
(16:35):
with lighting, now, I mean, it'sall you know, it's spectacular.
What can happen?
Yes, you can have littlebudgets, but even on those
little budgets, things canhappen.
Yes, you can have littlebudgets, but even on those
little budgets things can happen.
But the Broadway shows now andthe Royal Shakespeare Company
and the bigger theaters inLondon, they know that they're
in competition with the movies.
You know, people are stayinghome or, and so the shows,
(16:56):
depending on what they are, haveto be more spectacular to bring
the people in.
You know, today people are usedto watching fast cuts in movies
.
Slower movies can't hold theattention of a lot of people
today, you know, because thestory takes a while for that to
be drawn out, whereas peoplewant action and all that stuff
(17:17):
today.
You know what I'm saying.
The Nickel Boys is a new filmthat has come out about these
two young African-American boys.
The book is terrific and I waswondering how he was going to,
the director was going to dothis, but he shoots it in a very
artistic way, which isphenomenal with what he's done
(17:37):
with the camera, and so all ofthat kind of stuff is happening
today.
But the tried and true of beingable to understand what to do
with a script and what you haveto write in the script, that
doesn't ever go away.
That's never going away.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I'm curious and I'm just again fascinated by your
personal story and just the workthat you do.
I've been in the tech space for, you know, almost over two
decades and I think in so manyways, when I think of the word
(18:23):
artist, I'm always thinkingabout that person, of the work
that we do in terms of buildingapplications and building
different tools, as a form ofart in a lot of ways.
And so, as I'm seeing kind ofthe technology advance and
things are changing, definitelyis changing in my field, I feel
the getting to the core of whatcreativity is, getting to the
(18:45):
core of what an artist is, youknow, those lines are starting
to be blurred a little bit.
It sounds like it is in yourspace as well.
I mean, where do you feel thecore of of of an artist or
creativity?
What does that lie in yourspace?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Well, you, know being the training is for acting and
directing.
The training is still the same,but it's how that is put out on
the stage and what thedirector's imagination is, that
(19:22):
that can be realized with thetechnological aspects that can
be brought up today.
What did I see in London lastyear which I didn't see it on
Netflix?
I think it's a series calledPassing Strange and I saw the
stage production of that.
(19:44):
They spent so much money musthave been millions of pounds to
do all of that kind of stuff onstage, but the audience was
packed, sold out.
So that's coming to Broadway atsome point within the year and
I wonder how they're going to dothat, because people they
recognize the title, they wantto see certain things on the
(20:04):
stage, because there are certainkinds of supernatural elements.
We have supernatural elements inthe production that I'm doing
here, but I figured out a waywith the designers to be able to
bring that out in thisproduction.
Watching all of those, I becamea cinephile early, so watching
(20:28):
German Expressionism and whatthey were doing with lighting
and all of that, you know youstart the way that you start
talking about your concept todesigners.
Then they start going wow, thisis great.
How can we do this?
There are certain things andimages that I want to see on the
stage, and then you know, theybring that to life during the
(20:49):
tech rehearsals.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Yeah, I love that, going back to even the story
telling part of it all.
And I get I'm I will admit I'mhypersensitive to images of
particularly black folks on TV.
Matter of fact, I was watchingthe Super Bowl and they always
kind of do this.
You know, they'll find someA-list actor to kind of take us
(21:15):
through a minute or two of howwe got to this point.
And it was a story of Americaand what I, what I noticed was
it was like two and a halfminutes of what America is and
there were definitely images ofblack folks in that that story,
but it was either marching or aposition of fighting for justice
, you know, all the images ofthe scientists and the great
(21:38):
engineers and the mathematiciansand all the things that made
America great.
From that perspective, I didnot see us represented and again
, it's such these subtle things.
Obviously I'm looking forstrong roles of characters and
movies and things like that, buteven in terms of just any kind
of media, commercials, all thethings, I think there's always
(21:59):
this element of back and forthin terms of black representation
on the screen.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
You know, first of all, you know that happens, geez
, that happens in highereducation, it happens in the
American theater as well,because, although we have more
allies now, there have beencertain images in the
(22:27):
consciousness of America thathave been culturally curated,
images of black people, and thatstill seeps in to the
consciousness.
I mean, you talk about theSuper Bowl.
So, yeah, you had two young menwho identify as black I would
(22:57):
assume Mahomes identifies asblack in that position of a
quarterback, because you need tobe able to strategize, plan,
you know, have that quicknessand facility of mind, you
understand, and so that, to me,was what was important about the
(23:18):
two of them the second timebeing there.
But these images that have beenand that's why, you know, for
me, you know, even though I'verisen to the heights of whatever
I'm doing, if this was a movieabout the mafia, I'm a made man,
but to get there I have nevergiven up my soul, you understand
(23:40):
, and there are a lot of people,I know that have given up their
souls.
They get up to the gate andthen they get their legs blown
off, you know, by an IUD.
They thought that they wereliked.
See, I came out of the streetsin New York, so I know exactly
how to play the game.
It's a game and once youunderstand the rules of the game
(24:01):
, that's just how it is, becauselook at what's happening now
with all the DEI stuff that hasto be scratched.
It's like anybody, that's anykind of folk, whoever they are,
that are being excluded andmaking noise.
That's what these people don'tlike.
(24:22):
That's all it's about.
That's all it's about.
Yes, you can have bias training, you can have all this other
stuff, but when you starttalking about monies that are
given specifically for black andbrown people to do things,
that's what they don't like.
They don't like that becausethen that means these people are
excluding the others, and theothers are the white folks, you
(24:45):
see.
So you know, but I understandthat I went over uh someone's uh
application for a job lastnight and I said well, you know
what?
I think you need to start totake out some of these words and
still have the same tone, butyou don't know who's seeing this
.
But you know, you know, youknow, lay back a little bit on
words like activism and blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
(25:08):
And she called me back up andshe read it to me and it was
fabulous.
And I said that's exactly howyou play the game right now.
That's exactly doesn't meanyou're giving up who you are,
you just play the game.
But a lot of people you knowthey talk loud and, yes, you
should be heard, but you knowthere's a way to be able to get
your point across without youknow.
(25:28):
So you know I may have gone offon a tangent a little bit, but
but yeah, you're preaching tothe choir man.
I mean this, this play that I'mdoing.
I told the newspaper personthis morning.
I said, look, I'm interested inat least for play like this,
that the historical essence ofthis play can live.
(25:51):
And because he said that wasinteresting when you were
working with the younger actors,because you were getting them
to understand, I said yeah,because they're removed from
this.
And I said it's about thehistorical essence of this play
or any other play no differentthan the Irish dramatists of
O'Casey and Singh.
They were talking about certainthings, about the common people
(26:12):
.
Common doesn't mean stupid, andI say every time I listen to
these dramas or I read thesedramas of Wilson these are like
how my relatives talked.
You know what I mean.
So I have to put that on thestage because African-American
history is part of Americanhistory as far as I'm concerned,
and that's what it's about andeverything else that goes into
(26:37):
these dramas, to pull that stuffout, the rhythms of how we talk
, all the nuances and therelationships, all of that you
know, and yeah, I think that'swhy A Raisin in the Sun was so
important in 1958, 59, becauseit was like a curtain went up
and white people were sitting ina Broadway audience seeing how
(27:00):
black people probably wereacting in this little apartment
with Walter Lee and, you know,his family.
They'd never seen anything likethat.
There had been black plays ondrama, but not like what
Lorraine Hansberry did.
So here's August Wilson.
What is it?
The 20th anniversary of hisdeath this year.
The man would have been 80, andyou know his plays are still
(27:24):
going strong.
I learned from these greatactors.
I was in a baby of a group ofMorgan Freeman and Tony Chisholm
and all those guys and you knowI used to sit on the side and
they'd take me under their wingsand they'd say listen to this,
this, this, this and I'd go okay.
Lloyd Richards, who's passedaway, was the dean at the Yale
(27:44):
School of Drama.
He directed all of August sixof his plays on Broadway.
I mean, you know, angie Bassett, courtney Vance, they were all
there because of Lloyd Richardsat Yale and others.
So you know I come from atradition and a history of
people that you know.
I'm trying to pass that on nowand I think God bless the Brits,
(28:07):
they understand that.
That's why they're bringing meover there to.
You know, pass on these lessonsto these black actors, who are
good, but they still need to digdown deep and the white folks
know that they're not equippedto do that.
Because you know, if you're in adrama school, at Yale or
(28:27):
Juilliard, you know maybe awhite teacher might lay back a
little bit, because if they say,hey, I don't understand you,
you have to be clearer.
What does that really mean?
What are you trying to tell methat I have to sound a different
way?
You understand what I'm sayingand a lot of teachers don't want
to be.
They're afraid of being accusedof being a racist.
You understand I'm not sayingthat happens at Juilliard,
(28:51):
although there have been thingsthat have major drama that has
happened there over the past fewyears.
But yeah, that's a so.
But I can.
I can relate to people in acertain way that they understand
.
I don't hate them, but I'msaying you know you've got to
step up.
You've got to step up.
You know you want to entertainyour grandmother, go in the
(29:12):
living room and twirl around anddance or something.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
I used to do that a lot.
Now you're joking, but no, no,no, no.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
But I mean you know you want to get applause.
Then no, no, but I mean youknow it's, it's, you know you
want to get it, get applauseThen you got a lot of work to do
.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
That is where my applause stopped.
Right there in the living room,on the in front of the
fireplace, she had a little, youknow.
Anyway, that was my stage.
You talked about legacy, though.
And I want to kind of go there,because I know you did have
someone in the family that itkind of started in this
direction.
Thinking about your own legacyand and having this imagery, I
(29:53):
want to know why.
That's why that's important foryou, but also what you're doing
about it, like, yes, over inLondon is great and they get it,
but what are we missing herealso in America that you're
trying to do to be able to makesure that we don't miss it?
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Well, you know, black drama is a part of what I do,
but it doesn't define who I am.
So that's one thing.
You see, and again, withoutgiving up my soul, you know,
when people read the books thatI've written, I'm the second
African-American in the historyof this country that has written
(30:36):
a book on acting technique,just acting, technique, right.
The second, susan Babson, wasthis first out of the actor's
studio.
So that's number one.
And you know, people talk aboutblack acting methods today and
all that that's.
I'm not doing that, I'm talkingabout the text, technique,
(30:56):
right.
And so when people are readingthis and now I'm evaluating
other people, it has nothing todo with the color of my skin.
It has to do with the fact,just like my homes and hurts,
that they're there in thosepositions because they're
excellent.
It has nothing to do with thecolor of their skin, but because
(31:25):
of what I do and how I'mopening up spaces.
That's what's important,because people don't even know
who.
I'm all about.
Trying to teach people aboutwho has come before, because
things just didn't come out of avacuum and you know, I could
mention names here and peoplewouldn't even know who they are.
But in the theater world, moreand more people are starting to
get to know who they are.
(31:45):
Now Sam Jackson and Denzel maynot know about.
They know the names, but theymay not know about these people
the way that I know about theirbackground.
They know the names and say, ohyeah, he was so-and-so and
so-and-so or she was so-and-soand so-and-so.
So that's what I'm doingwherever I go, even in Norway,
that's what I did.
(32:05):
I was speaking in front of allof these people about Earl Hyman
.
See, I'm going to mentionanother name.
People go who's Earl Hyman?
Earl Hyman played Bill Cosby'sfather on the Cosby Show,
grandfather Cosby.
That brother had a tremendouscareer in Norway.
This is way before issues ofmulticulturalism and all that.
(32:26):
As a matter of fact, the lateJames Earl Jones, jimmy Jones,
would always say that if itwasn't for Earl, he wouldn't
have had a career.
And what Earl was doing?
Earl did everything, but he hada love of Ibsen and that's what
brought him there, which thatlove of Ibsen started when he
was 13 years old just happenedto see a play and all of a
(32:49):
sudden he wanted to learn thelanguage and all that sort of
stuff.
So that's what I do and thelegacy is more of me being able
to.
I have one more book in me andI'm going to have meetings in
London because I was brought toParis a couple of years ago on a
film script that I wrote, andthat film script is on one of
(33:11):
the people that I could mentiontheir names and no one in the
audience would know who it is.
But certain people know whothis man is, and so now when I'm
in London I'm going to havemeetings because one guy, one
producer, likes the script and Isaid, oh really.
And so he said we need to havea meeting and I have notes for
you.
I asked him.
I saw him in New York a coupleof weeks ago.
(33:32):
I said, well, you're going to,can you help me Because he has
all those connections with theBBC and all that?
I have a lot of friends thatare screenwriters, but I never
thought about this.
It's just my love of puttingthe story forth, that's all it
is.
And you know, if you'restudying computer science, one
would seeing her come around herparents' house with people from
(33:53):
casts of shows and I was like,wow, who are all these people?
(34:24):
Woman has been in a trajectoryof black actors that have made
their mark on the screen,certainly in the 1970s, but she
was.
She had a Broadway careerbefore she appeared on the
screen and you know the littletube, the television, and she
was always so proud of mebecause she would always tell me
(34:46):
as I was doing things, becauseI was low, under the radar, the
commercial radar, but she knewwhat I was doing.
She said, man, what you'redoing is so important.
She said you just keep doingthat, just keep being you.
And she was always so proud ofthat and I always held that in
my heart, that and I always, Ialways, I always held that in my
(35:06):
heart.
I always tried to get her to dothings later and come and talk
to universities and stuff, butshe always shied away from it.
You see, because she's been incertain books that people read
about her and they go, wow, shedid this.
You know, this is what you know.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
I know Tia has a few kind of questions to wrap us up
here, but when I think aboutagain, just just from from my
vantage point when I think aboutblack folks on on screen and in
plays and things like that, Ialways see us kind of depicting
what happened in the past ormaybe even telling our story of
the present, or maybe eventelling our story of the present
(35:44):
.
I think one of the things thatwas so impactful about a movie
like like Wakanda, you know,like Black Panther, it gave a
quasi vision for a future.
You know, it allowed, I think,the black community to dream,
even if that's all it did.
Right To dream of somethingbigger than what was current and
bigger than than maybe what thepast has been.
(36:06):
Are you seeing more than whatwe're?
You know we're just seeing asjust folks that are watching?
You know, common TV and movies.
Are you seeing enough of thatin your spaces in terms of this
forward thinking, futuristictype of performances for our
culture audiences?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
for our culture and if not, why not?
No, it may be, you know, insmaller theaters, which
hopefully it will get.
You know, there are all kindsof writers now that are doing
all kinds of wonderful things,but you have to, you know,
curate the audience to come intothose.
You know, shows.
And so if you have a theater upin Harlem, like the National
(36:47):
Black Theater and a couple ofother spaces, those audiences
are used to coming in seeingmore avant-garde stuff.
La Mama, down in the EastVillage in New York, they're
used to seeing more avant-gardestuff which is moving into other
off-Broadway spaces.
But Broadway is about money andit's about, you know, it's
(37:11):
getting the butts in the seats.
Who's going to spend the money?
Listen, denzel Washington'sOthello Othello's always done
somewhere.
And now all of a sudden you'vegot Denzel Washington and Jake
Gyllenhaal.
Those tickets are going for$1,000.
The average person who's goingto spend $1,000 to go see that
play?
There will be people, but mostpeople I know don't have $500
(37:34):
for a ticket, $600.
That's ridiculous, but they'llget it.
It'll be interesting to seewhat happens.
But that's Shakespeare andpeople are going to see Denzel
and, just like when he didAugust Wilson's Fences on
Broadway and all that, but thosetickets weren't $800.
It's ridiculous.
So, yeah, I think that in timethere's Top Dog Underdog I don't
(38:02):
know if you know that title,susan Laurie Parks.
That's been on Broadway.
It was on Broadway again lastyear.
They brought it back, but inthe sci-fi realm, or what is
called, there's a certain termfor it.
There are people writing aboutit.
You can tell me what's the nameof the great sci-fi writer?
(38:23):
African-american female.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
I don't know her name off the top of my head, but I
just learned about it the otherday, yeah, so more of that has
to be done and put out there.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Be put out there.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
So I think while you're in that vein, though, let
our listeners know how theysupport that.
So I think there are thethere's kind of the double-edged
sword here, where you havepeople that are actually writing
it and putting it out, but alsothose that will or won't go see
it or won't even know that it'shappening, won't even know that
it was written and that it'sout.
(38:58):
How do we, if we're completelydisconnected from the arts and
arts arenas, how do we plug into even know what's happening in
this space so that we cansupport it?
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Well, you know, I'm not on social media.
That's personal choice.
So I mean, I'm sure there arepeople out there.
You can get on all kinds oflistservs and you know all that
stuff is out there on socialmedia.
So I mean, that's today howpeople find things and then once
they become aware of this, thenyou've got to start doing the
(39:32):
research and finding out theother works that people have
done.
That's how you do it.
But you have to have a love ofbeing able to be a detective and
start saying, oh, this persondid that, like Walter Mosley the
writer I mean, you know hewrote quite a few saying, oh,
this person did that, likeWalter Mosley, the writer I mean
, you know, wrote quite a few,he's written quite a few books,
you know, and so.
But you know, people have tohave that love of reading.
(39:54):
Do people have it anymore?
I'm speaking very broadly.
You know that's a learned.
I have to read something everynight before I go to bed.
But that's a habit.
You see, I read all of the.
I read the Washington Post, Iread the New York Times.
I mean I try to stay informed.
Al Jazeera, I try to stayinformed.
(40:15):
You know, I don't watchtelevision anymore.
I mean if somebody's onsomething that I know on
streaming, whatever Netflix orwhatever, but I don't network
television.
I haven't watched that in along time.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
NK Jemison, is that who you're thinking of?
The African-American woman, thewriter?
No NK, oh, okay, all right,she's a big one.
That's the one I thought youwere referring to.
Good, good and.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
I'll have to look her up too, because I'm quiet, I'm
not.
I don't even know where tostart researching.
So I'll let y'all have that, butI do think I know you have to
run, so I want to just kind ofin a bit of a culminating
statement.
I would love for you to justkind of think back over your
(41:02):
career and think about theattributes that you think are
the most important, or whataspects either of your
discipline or of your work ethic, or of even some things that
may have been instilled in youas a child, what have been the
most significant things, aspectsof your success?
(41:24):
What do you attribute yoursuccess to?
What do you think has made thismetro opera singer in America
with a clip-on tie?
Now to this point How'd you gethere?
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yeah, no one's ever given me a thing.
I've always worked hard.
I was just telling somebody theother day I've never, no one's
ever, given me a daggone thing.
I've always worked hard.
I was just telling somebody theother day I had paper routes.
When I was in high school Istill had a paper route Going to
school doing shows, tellingfriends take my route, because a
couple of my friends knew theroute, and I worked hard.
(42:03):
I never had anybody give meanything that I didn't really
work for.
You know what's the old adagein our community you got to work
two and three times as hardjust to get.
You know, that's what I did,but I never had a chip on my
shoulder about it.
And I still work hard.
That's what I'm saying.
Now for me to evaluate all theseother people.
(42:25):
I mean, I have four FulbrightsIf people in the audience know
what that is.
I have four Fulbrights.
I sit on the commission now.
I didn't knock on these doors.
People came to me, you see, andit's hard work helping others.
I'm helping a young brotherright now that I coached and he
(42:49):
won some acting awards recentlyand he's getting ready to do
something else.
He's calling me, you know, andthat's what I do, because I had
plenty of people that helped me,and so I believe in helping
others.
You know who have had thoseopportunities, others you know
(43:10):
who have had those opportunities, and so that's to try to have
an unselfish spirit and pass iton, that's the only way.
And that just doesn't mean blackfolk, plenty of white students
as well.
They don't come in a room andsay if it wasn't for this man
here, I wouldn't be where I amright now.
One of my former students,who's white, known him since
he's 19,.
His first book he dedicated tome not his father and his father
(43:33):
knew me and he called hisfather.
He says, dad, I'm going todedicate the book to Barron
because he called me BarronKelly.
And his father said of courseyou are.
That was it.
His father died last year andPeter said my father loved you,
man.
And I said, yeah, yeah, you'relucky that you had your father,
man.
So that's it.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
That's it.
I love that.
You know T.
I don't know if I'm going tohave an opportunity to share
this little piece of blackhistory, but I don't know if you
know we had a cute chorale incollege.
I used to sing in the cutechorale.
I don't know if I ever told youthat Tia.
I am a listen, I promise you.
I promise you.
(44:16):
I got some fraternity brothersthat can vouch for that.
We sang in the cute chorale.
I at one point was a stageperformer.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
We're here with a director right now, right now,
so we don't need cues.
We can get a little, I mean.
So.
No, no, no, I said back in thedays you retired, back in the
days you retired.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So Omega Psi Phi had a corraland you, yeah yeah, you, yep,
yep.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
We used to do what we were saying snapping the
fingers and the whole nine.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah, we did that.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
That's beautiful, little known black history fact.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
You know what I mean.
You're getting all these goodblack history facts on this call
today.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Definitely little known and not one that is coming
to the stage.
It sounds anytime soon.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
Not no time soon.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
I got to pull those brothers from real professional
jobs at this soon.
Speaker 4 (45:06):
I got to pull those brothers from real professional
jobs at this point.
I don't think any of us aregoing to get on the stage at
this point.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
I think that you could Right now just for the
sake of.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
No, that's not going to happen we tried.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Thanks for pulling this out of him we never, would
have heard this story on thepodcast forever in life?
We never would have heard thisstory on the podcast forever in
life.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
We got a whole singer in the Q Corral, wow, alright.
Well, if you see him next time,dr Kelly, in a clip on Tide,
just know what's happening.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Before we go.
There's some wonderful actorsout there that people probably
don't know their names, but youneed to keep your eye on it.
Jarrell Jerome is one.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
I mean, he was in Moonlight.
When they See Us.
Speaker 4 (45:59):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
He's in Unstoppable right now.
I mean, he's phenomenal,phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
It was like Lorenz Tate when Lorenz Tate busted on
the scene in Minister Society,you know.
So I mean you know, but anyway,there are a whole slew of
people Carrie if people haven'tseen the 6888,.
Carrie Washington, about theBlack Battalion of Female Wax in
World War II, which was basedon a true story.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
Tyler Perry did it, netflix, I think.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
Yeah, tyler Perry did the excellent job.
Hold on, ronnie.
Have you seen it, ronnie?
Speaker 4 (46:33):
No, I haven't seen it .
I've seen the trailer.
No, I have not seen it, but Iknow what he's talking about.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
Oh, my God, dr Kelly, I've seen it.
I can't even count the timesnow.
If I just need background, I'mplaying it.
It's that good, ronnie, youhave not.
So you're singing in a choraleand you haven't seen 6888.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
Like come on Mm-mm, mm-mm.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Thank you for calling that out.
That is a good one.
You should have seen that bynow.
Speaker 4 (47:05):
Is that your way of making up for not knowing what
Uncle Nearest Whiskey is?
I?
Speaker 3 (47:08):
didn't know who Uncle Nearest was.
Wait, you know who UncleNearest is too.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Oh no, I'm just listening to the two of you?
Speaker 3 (47:17):
Okay, good, do you?
But I'm not a drinker like that.
Oh, but see, you knew it had todo with alcohol.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
So low key, he is Low key, he does know.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
He does know, he actually does know.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
I didn't know.
I didn't even know what it wasaffiliated with.
I had no idea, anywho.
Well, I'm not a drinker likethat either.
So then there you have it.
But I didn't know it wasassociated.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
Actually, I'm going to blame that on why I can't
sing anymore and kook around.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
That's actually Not so much.
I mean, at least watch yourpurple anyway.
Anyway, we're not going to taketoo much more of your time.
We thank you so much for havingjoined, just for joining us
today, for sharing all the greatthings you're doing, for the
work that you're doing aroundthe globe.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
We're just so proud and happy that you could join us
, thank you, thanks, cuz Yep,and I'll send it to my
girlfriend.
Send it to me so she can listento it.
So, I'm going to send it to herso right before she goes to
sleep, she can listen to it andfall asleep.
Beautiful no, to help her,she's going to say oh God, here
(48:21):
he goes again talking.
She can go to sleep.
She can go to sleep.
She can go to sleep now.
Speaker 3 (48:28):
It's going to be because of the sound of your
voice.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Yeah right.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
Thank you so much.
You have a great day today.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
Okay, bye-bye, y'all.
Take care Okay bye-bye, bye-bye, I like to be educated.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
But I'm so frustrated way I wish I knew how much I
missed that moment that we'reall screwed when we play our
(49:23):
roles and ignore the problems.
I like to be away and morepatient.
Stay up.
I feel so outdated.
(49:43):
How can we look the other way?
Sun is out, but the sky is gray.
What would happen if I took achance?
It's always hard at firstglance.
I don't wanna, but I know Igotta do it.
The truth is hard to swallow.
I think I'll chew it, yeah yeah.
(50:22):
I wish I knew how much I missednot knowing that we're all
screwed when we play our rolesand ignore the problems.
(50:43):
I wish I knew how much I missnot knowing that we're all
screwed when we play our rolesand ignore the problems.
(51:04):
I wish I knew.
Hi, Now, Tia.
Today we're not going to do theinterview because I have to run
out.
You said Friday, is thatcorrect?
Well, go ahead.
How much time do you need?
If you can do this in 40minutes, I can jump in the
shower and get out of here afterthat.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Pressure pressure.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Good to meet you brother Under these
circumstances there?
How?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
you doing man no problem.
This has been a morning of oneof the newspapers.
Well, the PR person called melast night because something
happened when they wererecording some stuff with some
of these people.
And it's the way.
It is no problem.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Thank you, okay, people, and it's the way, it is
no problem.
Thank you, okay.
Well, in that case, let me jumpright into Dr Barron Kelly's
bio.
Barron Kelly is the Marilyn R,baxter and Vilas Distinguished
Achievement Professor of Theaterand Drama and has a joint
appointment with UW-Madison'sDepartment of Liberal Arts and
Applied Studies at theUniversity of Wisconsin-Madison,
(01:47):
he currently holds the ColinCook Professorship of Acting at
the London Academy of Music andDramatic Art.
A former Harvard Faculty Fellow, he is a recent recipient of
both the Kennedy Center AmericanCollege Theater Festival Gold
Medallion and the UniversityResident Theater Association
Excellence in UndergraduateTraining Award.
(02:09):
In 2023, he was formallyinvested into the College of
Fellows of the American Theaterat the Kennedy Center in
Washington DC.
Barron has performedinternationally for the Royal
National Theater of GreatBritain, performed
internationally for the RoyalNational Theatre of Great
Britain, stratford ShakespeareFestival of Canada, national
(02:29):
Theatre of Norway, yermalovaTheatre Moscow, russia,
constance Theatre Athens, greeceAcademy Theatre Dublin,
edinburgh Theatre Festival,bargello, florence, italy, among
others, and his Broadwaycredits include Salome and
(02:49):
Electra.
He has held numerous classicaland contemporary roles for over
30 of America's leading regionaltheaters as well.
His film and television workincludes A Day Without a Mexican
Bird, loving Law and Order andFrasier.
Barron has been a participantat Robert Redford Sundance
(03:12):
Institute and will be seen in asupporting role in the
soon-to-be-releasedpsychological thriller the
Coming, directed by Aaron Greer.
His accolades include winningan Emmy Award and nominations
for the Los Angeles DramaticCircle Award and an Adelco Award
.
He is a four-time FulbrightScholar and has traveled
(03:33):
extensively as a culturalspecialist for the United States
Bureau of Education andCultural Affairs, teaching and
lecturing on the theater on fourcontinents.
Teaching and lecturing on thetheater on four continents.
Professor Kelly has authorednumerous essays, articles and
book chapters in journals andanthologies and has written two
books.
His most recent book isBuilding Embodiment Integrating
(03:56):
Acting, voice and Movement toIlluminate Poetic Texts, with
co-author co-editor KarenKoprianski.
Dr Kelly earned his PhD intheater research from the
University of Wisconsin-Madison,a diploma from London's Royal
Academy of Dramatic Art and anMFA in acting from California
(04:19):
State University, long Beach.
Welcome to the Scratchwork EDUpodcast, dr Barron Kelly.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Welcome, Dr Kelly Welcome.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I personally don't know how you landed into the
arts and theater and acting, soif you don't mind, just maybe
sharing how you knew this may bewhere you should be.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Everyone always asks me that question where you
should be.
Everyone always asks me thatquestion.
You know, growing up in NewYork, you know I used to watch a
lot of, you know, television,you know, way before cable and
all that.
But I used to watch old moviesand a lot of old movies, you
know, and I'd be emotionallymoved by these movies and
(05:03):
sometimes I would be crying fromthe emotion.
And you know, eight years oldand you know, I was terrified.
I didn't know what washappening and I didn't really
discuss that with anybody in thefamily.
And then, just like any otherchild with imagination, you know
, trying to enact whatever I sawon the screen swashbucklers,
you know, errol Flynn and allthe monster movies that I
(05:27):
watched.
And then, when I was about 10or 11, you know, I sang in the
chorus in school and a couple ofmy friends, you know, I went to
a very multicultural elementaryschool in upper Manhattan, up
(05:47):
on Amsterdam Avenue, across fromthe Cloisters, ps 189.
Where actually, you know, anumber of years prior, the great
opera singer Maria Callas wentthere.
I found that out about 10 yearsago.
I was like wow.
And so, anyway, a couple of myfriends, you know they were
talking about auditioning forthe Metropolitan Opera.
I didn't know what that was,all I know.
(06:10):
All I knew was that I wanted tobe with my friends and my
mother came up and talked to theteacher and she said there was
an opportunity for me.
And you know, when my motherasked me and I said I want to do
it, and so my mother took medown to the Metropolitan Opera.
They were auditioning all thesechildren for the children's
chorus and my mother put alittle white shirt on me with a
(06:32):
clip on tie and I went in theroom and sang for the great
Zubin Mehta.
I don't know if you know who heis.
I mean, he's one of the world'sgreat conductors, you know.
And he was in the room and therehearsal pianist was in the
room and you know they asked mewhat I was going to sing for
(06:52):
them you know, this little blackchild at 10, 11 years old and I
said America.
And I must have sang the hellout of America, because then
they started playing around withthe keys and checking out my
range and all that.
And then, you know, two weekslater I get a little postcard in
the mail that I had made theMetropolitan Opera.
(07:14):
So that's where it sort ofstarted, what they call, where
the sawdust went up my nose, andyou know, because people in New
York thought I was going to goto a math and science high
school and my teacher told meabout the High School of
Performing Arts, because I askedif there was a place to teach
(07:35):
people how to, you know, act inmovies and all that you know
theater.
And so that's how it started.
You know, I auditioned fortheed for performing arts and
made it.
They must have thought I wascrazy enough to let me in there
and I joined all those othercrazy kids and so that's where
it started.
(07:56):
But then, you know, there was atrajectory after that, but
that's how it started.
I think I did one play inschool maybe, you know, around
the holidays, but I was.
I was always into sports andall that sort of stuff, but I
had that other side of me, youknow, because I was playing
violin and piano and all of thatsort of stuff, you know.
So that's where it started.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Let's talk about a man in the arts, because you
played sports, but you alsoplayed.
The instruments went into thearts and things like that.
Culturally, was that an easykind of decision or switch over
Like?
Did you struggle with anymasculinity types of challenges
in terms?
Speaker 1 (08:38):
of trajectory.
No, at that time, you know, thearts programs in New York City
were proliferating and so, youknow, there were a lot of kids
in band, you know, and I justhappened to grab it.
At first I was playing pianoand then, you know, I thought
(08:59):
the violin, the sound of theviolin, look, you know, sounded
cool.
And then I, you, and then somepeople would try to tease me.
But a lot of kids carried theirinstruments home during those
days.
So I think it was only later,when I started dancing, taking
dance classes, that the toughguys in the neighborhood would
(09:19):
always question me because I'dalways be going off to take
ballet or modern.
But when they understood that Iwas going off to take ballet or
modern, but when theyunderstood that I was as strong
as they were, or stronger, andthat I could do things like a
gymnast, you know, but they werelike, oh man.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Understood, understood.
So you started the MetropolitanOpera and now you land.
What's your most recentaccomplishment?
I don't want to mess it up, butI know there's something you
will be doing.
One was August Wilson's play,but also in London.
If you could speak to thosecouple of things?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, a couple of months ago.
Well, I went to drama school inLondon.
I went to the Royal Academy ofDramatic Arts and I've been all
over the world, you know, acting, you know in the theater,
broadway, all that sort of stuff.
And I last year I was in Londonteaching and I went over to
(10:20):
Lambda, which is the LondonAcademy of Music and Dramatic
Arts, and they asked me to givea couple of workshops with these
students.
You know, that's one of thebest drama schools in the world,
you know, number two orwhatever and they loved what I
did.
And then they asked me if Iwanted to direct this particular
Shakespeare production lastspring, before I was leaving
(10:42):
London, and I couldn't because Ialready had, you know, a sort
of a conflict in the States withanother show.
And then it was announced inOctober that I'd been named the
Colin Cook Professor of Actingthere, because they love what I
do.
So now I'll be in Londonactually in March for about a
(11:05):
week or so this March and then Igo back to direct an August
Wilson piece.
They asked me which shows wouldI want to do and I gave them a
bunch of titles and you know, itjust so happened that they
liked Joe Turner's Come and Gone.
So now I will be directingtheir graduate actors in a
(11:29):
production, and most of theseactors, of course, are from the
States, the ones that I'm goingto be directing.
So I'm going to be passing thatknowledge on to them, because
when I've gone over to London,I'm a big history buff London, I
, you know.
I'm a big history buff, youknow, and so I talk about the
legacy of Black actors and BlackBritish theater, which a lot of
the Black actors over theredon't really know about, and the
(11:53):
administrators of the schoollove this, because I come in and
I start opening up theconsciousness of all the
students, but particularly theBlack students, and you know.
So it's, it's been a great.
It's been a great situation.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Why would you say sharing that type of history
matters to you.
Where did that love for historyand reading.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
You know I've always been a voracious reader.
So when I was in school, youknow, I always would go to the
library.
You know my mother when she wasin school, I always would go to
the library.
My mother, when she was cominghome from work late, she'd leave
my brother Warren and I, orshe'd say, go to the library and
read books until I come andpick you up.
(12:38):
So books have become my friends, you see.
So I was always fascinated byall the actors that I was seeing
, you know, on television andthe films, and I would read as
much as I could about them.
And then history I startedreading about instances that
(12:59):
dealt with black people that Iwasn't reading about in school
particularly.
I think one of the firstinstances was of a man named
Isaiah Dorman.
Now, most people listening tothis probably won't even know
that name, but Isaiah Dorman wasthe only black man killed at
the Battle of the Little Bighorn.
Some people would remember thename of, maybe, george Custer
(13:21):
when he fought against the Sioux.
The Sioux wiped out his commandin 1876.
But Isaiah Dorman was the blackman that was killed in that
battle in one of the squads thatsplit off from Custer's main
company, and he was married to aSantee Sioux woman and he was a
(13:44):
trapper.
And he was married to a SanteeSioux woman and he was a trapper
and the natives reallyrespected him and the amount of
when he was dying on thebattlefield.
What Sitting Bull did.
The great Sioux warrior cameout and honored him as he was
dying on the battlefield.
I loved all that stuff.
So that's what started me.
And you know, supreme CourtJustice Sotomayor, I read
(14:07):
something where she had said,because she grew up in the Bronx
and she was a voracious reader,and she said that reading books
was her way to escape from thatbedroom in the Bronx.
So you know that's, you know itopens up the mind and it's a
shame that today children I'mspeaking generally, of course,
but teachers are so overloadedthe kids don't have time to read
(14:29):
whole books.
Now, some do, but for the mostpart you know what is it?
Wikipedia or not Wikipedia?
Cliff Notes?
Kids hit a button on thecomputer and the little summary
comes up and you know all that.
But there's something to besaid about reading a book,
smelling a book, particularlythe old books, you know.
Turning a book, that tactileexperience, you know.
(14:51):
So that's stayed with me myentire life.
I have thousands of books,thousands of books.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Tell me from books and turning the pages to now
that you just kind of brought upsomething.
We talk about tech a lot andwhere things are going and how
it's making things faster.
Are you seeing any tech changesin the theater world in terms
of maybe when you used to havethese papers and scripts and sit
(15:20):
down and maybe do a table readand then move into, how are
things being automated, if atall.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Well, no, what you'll see is in classes, but I'm, and
myself and other teachers, somestudents will try to pull
scenes up on phones, you see,because what in the script of
understanding how scriptanalysis works and what you have
to do to break down a script,you need to be able to have the
pages in your hand to write, toanalyze, uh, all of that sort of
(15:49):
stuff.
There's a lot of work that goesinto acting and if you're
really going to do it well anduh, you know that's just script
analysis and what you do, um,and what happens, and even at
read-throughs, table reads, youknow, everybody has their
scripts there because thedramaturg or the historian, to
open it up, thecontextualization of the script
(16:14):
for the actors, if the companyhas a dramaturg who's been hired
to do this, and you know that'sjust the way it goes.
What I'm seeing technologically, and everybody knows this, is
just like computers, the digitalstuff that can be done on the
stages now, the kinds ofprojections, what can be done
(16:35):
with lighting, now, I mean, it'sall you know, it's spectacular.
What can happen?
Yes, you can have littlebudgets, but even on those
little budgets, things canhappen.
Yes, you can have littlebudgets, but even on those
little budgets things can happen.
But the Broadway shows now andthe Royal Shakespeare Company
and the bigger theaters inLondon, they know that they're
in competition with the movies.
You know, people are stayinghome or, and so the shows,
(16:56):
depending on what they are, haveto be more spectacular to bring
the people in.
You know, today people are usedto watching fast cuts in movies
.
Slower movies can't hold theattention of a lot of people
today, you know, because thestory takes a while for that to
be drawn out, whereas peoplewant action and all that stuff
(17:17):
today.
You know what I'm saying.
The Nickel Boys is a new filmthat has come out about these
two young African-American boys.
The book is terrific and I waswondering how he was going to,
the director was going to dothis, but he shoots it in a very
artistic way, which isphenomenal with what he's done
(17:37):
with the camera, and so all ofthat kind of stuff is happening
today.
But the tried and true of beingable to understand what to do
with a script and what you haveto write in the script, that
doesn't ever go away.
That's never going away.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I'm curious and I'm just again fascinated by your
personal story and just the workthat you do.
I've been in the tech space for, you know, almost over two
decades and I think in so manyways, when I think of the word
(18:23):
artist, I'm always thinkingabout that person, of the work
that we do in terms of buildingapplications and building
different tools, as a form ofart in a lot of ways.
And so, as I'm seeing kind ofthe technology advance and
things are changing, definitelyis changing in my field, I feel
the getting to the core of whatcreativity is, getting to the
(18:45):
core of what an artist is, youknow, those lines are starting
to be blurred a little bit.
It sounds like it is in yourspace as well.
I mean, where do you feel thecore of of of an artist or
creativity?
What does that lie in yourspace?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Well, you, know being the training is for acting and
directing.
The training is still the same,but it's how that is put out on
the stage and what thedirector's imagination is, that
(19:22):
that can be realized with thetechnological aspects that can
be brought up today.
What did I see in London lastyear which I didn't see it on
Netflix?
I think it's a series calledPassing Strange and I saw the
stage production of that.
(19:44):
They spent so much money musthave been millions of pounds to
do all of that kind of stuff onstage, but the audience was
packed, sold out.
So that's coming to Broadway atsome point within the year and
I wonder how they're going to dothat, because people they
recognize the title, they wantto see certain things on the
(20:04):
stage, because there are certainkinds of supernatural elements.
We have supernatural elements inthe production that I'm doing
here, but I figured out a waywith the designers to be able to
bring that out in thisproduction.
Watching all of those, I becamea cinephile early, so watching
(20:28):
German Expressionism and whatthey were doing with lighting
and all of that, you know youstart the way that you start
talking about your concept todesigners.
Then they start going wow, thisis great.
How can we do this?
There are certain things andimages that I want to see on the
stage, and then you know, theybring that to life during the
(20:49):
tech rehearsals.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Yeah, I love that, going back to even the story
telling part of it all.
And I get I'm I will admit I'mhypersensitive to images of
particularly black folks on TV.
Matter of fact, I was watchingthe Super Bowl and they always
kind of do this.
You know, they'll find someA-list actor to kind of take us
(21:15):
through a minute or two of howwe got to this point.
And it was a story of Americaand what I, what I noticed was
it was like two and a halfminutes of what America is and
there were definitely images ofblack folks in that that story,
but it was either marching or aposition of fighting for justice
, you know, all the images ofthe scientists and the great
(21:38):
engineers and the mathematiciansand all the things that made
America great.
From that perspective, I didnot see us represented and again
, it's such these subtle things.
Obviously I'm looking forstrong roles of characters and
movies and things like that, buteven in terms of just any kind
of media, commercials, all thethings, I think there's always
(21:59):
this element of back and forthin terms of black representation
on the screen.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
You know, first of all, you know that happens, geez
, that happens in highereducation, it happens in the
American theater as well,because, although we have more
allies now, there have beencertain images in the
(22:27):
consciousness of America thathave been culturally curated,
images of black people, and thatstill seeps in to the
consciousness.
I mean, you talk about theSuper Bowl.
So, yeah, you had two young menwho identify as black I would
(22:57):
assume Mahomes identifies asblack in that position of a
quarterback, because you need tobe able to strategize, plan,
you know, have that quicknessand facility of mind, you
understand, and so that, to me,was what was important about the
(23:18):
two of them the second timebeing there.
But these images that have beenand that's why, you know, for
me, you know, even though I'verisen to the heights of whatever
I'm doing, if this was a movieabout the mafia, I'm a made man,
but to get there I have nevergiven up my soul, you understand
(23:40):
, and there are a lot of people,I know that have given up their
souls.
They get up to the gate andthen they get their legs blown
off, you know, by an IUD.
They thought that they wereliked.
See, I came out of the streetsin New York, so I know exactly
how to play the game.
It's a game and once youunderstand the rules of the game
(24:01):
, that's just how it is, becauselook at what's happening now
with all the DEI stuff that hasto be scratched.
It's like anybody, that's anykind of folk, whoever they are,
that are being excluded andmaking noise.
That's what these people don'tlike.
(24:22):
That's all it's about.
That's all it's about.
Yes, you can have bias training, you can have all this other
stuff, but when you starttalking about monies that are
given specifically for black andbrown people to do things,
that's what they don't like.
They don't like that becausethen that means these people are
excluding the others, and theothers are the white folks, you
(24:45):
see.
So you know, but I understandthat I went over uh someone's uh
application for a job lastnight and I said well, you know
what?
I think you need to start totake out some of these words and
still have the same tone, butyou don't know who's seeing this
.
But you know, you know, youknow, lay back a little bit on
words like activism and blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
(25:08):
And she called me back up andshe read it to me and it was
fabulous.
And I said that's exactly howyou play the game right now.
That's exactly doesn't meanyou're giving up who you are,
you just play the game.
But a lot of people you knowthey talk loud and, yes, you
should be heard, but you knowthere's a way to be able to get
your point across without youknow.
(25:28):
So you know I may have gone offon a tangent a little bit, but
but yeah, you're preaching tothe choir man.
I mean this, this play that I'mdoing.
I told the newspaper personthis morning.
I said, look, I'm interested inat least for play like this,
that the historical essence ofthis play can live.
(25:51):
And because he said that wasinteresting when you were
working with the younger actors,because you were getting them
to understand, I said yeah,because they're removed from
this.
And I said it's about thehistorical essence of this play
or any other play no differentthan the Irish dramatists of
O'Casey and Singh.
They were talking about certainthings, about the common people
(26:12):
.
Common doesn't mean stupid, andI say every time I listen to
these dramas or I read thesedramas of Wilson these are like
how my relatives talked.
You know what I mean.
So I have to put that on thestage because African-American
history is part of Americanhistory as far as I'm concerned,
and that's what it's about andeverything else that goes into
(26:37):
these dramas, to pull that stuffout, the rhythms of how we talk
, all the nuances and therelationships, all of that you
know, and yeah, I think that'swhy A Raisin in the Sun was so
important in 1958, 59, becauseit was like a curtain went up
and white people were sitting ina Broadway audience seeing how
(27:00):
black people probably wereacting in this little apartment
with Walter Lee and, you know,his family.
They'd never seen anything likethat.
There had been black plays ondrama, but not like what
Lorraine Hansberry did.
So here's August Wilson.
What is it?
The 20th anniversary of hisdeath this year.
The man would have been 80, andyou know his plays are still
(27:24):
going strong.
I learned from these greatactors.
I was in a baby of a group ofMorgan Freeman and Tony Chisholm
and all those guys and you knowI used to sit on the side and
they'd take me under their wingsand they'd say listen to this,
this, this, this and I'd go okay.
Lloyd Richards, who's passedaway, was the dean at the Yale
(27:44):
School of Drama.
He directed all of August sixof his plays on Broadway.
I mean, you know, angie Bassett, courtney Vance, they were all
there because of Lloyd Richardsat Yale and others.
So you know I come from atradition and a history of
people that you know.
I'm trying to pass that on nowand I think God bless the Brits,
(28:07):
they understand that.
That's why they're bringing meover there to.
You know, pass on these lessonsto these black actors, who are
good, but they still need to digdown deep and the white folks
know that they're not equippedto do that.
Because you know, if you're in adrama school, at Yale or
(28:27):
Juilliard, you know maybe awhite teacher might lay back a
little bit, because if they say,hey, I don't understand you,
you have to be clearer.
What does that really mean?
What are you trying to tell methat I have to sound a different
way?
You understand what I'm sayingand a lot of teachers don't want
to be.
They're afraid of being accusedof being a racist.
You understand I'm not sayingthat happens at Juilliard,
(28:51):
although there have been thingsthat have major drama that has
happened there over the past fewyears.
But yeah, that's a so.
But I can.
I can relate to people in acertain way that they understand
.
I don't hate them, but I'msaying you know you've got to
step up.
You've got to step up.
You know you want to entertainyour grandmother, go in the
(29:12):
living room and twirl around anddance or something.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
I used to do that a lot.
Now you're joking, but no, no,no, no.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
But I mean you know you want to get applause.
Then no, no, but I mean youknow it's, it's, you know you
want to get it, get applauseThen you got a lot of work to do
.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
That is where my applause stopped.
Right there in the living room,on the in front of the
fireplace, she had a little, youknow.
Anyway, that was my stage.
You talked about legacy, though.
And I want to kind of go there,because I know you did have
someone in the family that itkind of started in this
direction.
Thinking about your own legacyand and having this imagery, I
(29:53):
want to know why.
That's why that's important foryou, but also what you're doing
about it, like, yes, over inLondon is great and they get it,
but what are we missing herealso in America that you're
trying to do to be able to makesure that we don't miss it?
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Well, you know, black drama is a part of what I do,
but it doesn't define who I am.
So that's one thing.
You see, and again, withoutgiving up my soul, you know,
when people read the books thatI've written, I'm the second
African-American in the historyof this country that has written
(30:36):
a book on acting technique,just acting, technique, right.
The second, susan Babson, wasthis first out of the actor's
studio.
So that's number one.
And you know, people talk aboutblack acting methods today and
all that that's.
I'm not doing that, I'm talkingabout the text, technique,
(30:56):
right.
And so when people are readingthis and now I'm evaluating
other people, it has nothing todo with the color of my skin.
It has to do with the fact,just like my homes and hurts,
that they're there in thosepositions because they're
excellent.
It has nothing to do with thecolor of their skin, but because
(31:25):
of what I do and how I'mopening up spaces.
That's what's important,because people don't even know
who.
I'm all about.
Trying to teach people aboutwho has come before, because
things just didn't come out of avacuum and you know, I could
mention names here and peoplewouldn't even know who they are.
But in the theater world, moreand more people are starting to
get to know who they are.
(31:45):
Now Sam Jackson and Denzel maynot know about.
They know the names, but theymay not know about these people
the way that I know about theirbackground.
They know the names and say, ohyeah, he was so-and-so and
so-and-so or she was so-and-soand so-and-so.
So that's what I'm doingwherever I go, even in Norway,
that's what I did.
(32:05):
I was speaking in front of allof these people about Earl Hyman
.
See, I'm going to mentionanother name.
People go who's Earl Hyman?
Earl Hyman played Bill Cosby'sfather on the Cosby Show,
grandfather Cosby.
That brother had a tremendouscareer in Norway.
This is way before issues ofmulticulturalism and all that.
(32:26):
As a matter of fact, the lateJames Earl Jones, jimmy Jones,
would always say that if itwasn't for Earl, he wouldn't
have had a career.
And what Earl was doing?
Earl did everything, but he hada love of Ibsen and that's what
brought him there, which thatlove of Ibsen started when he
was 13 years old just happenedto see a play and all of a
(32:49):
sudden he wanted to learn thelanguage and all that sort of
stuff.
So that's what I do and thelegacy is more of me being able
to.
I have one more book in me andI'm going to have meetings in
London because I was brought toParis a couple of years ago on a
film script that I wrote, andthat film script is on one of
(33:11):
the people that I could mentiontheir names and no one in the
audience would know who it is.
But certain people know whothis man is, and so now when I'm
in London I'm going to havemeetings because one guy, one
producer, likes the script and Isaid, oh really.
And so he said we need to havea meeting and I have notes for
you.
I asked him.
I saw him in New York a coupleof weeks ago.
(33:32):
I said, well, you're going to,can you help me Because he has
all those connections with theBBC and all that?
I have a lot of friends thatare screenwriters, but I never
thought about this.
It's just my love of puttingthe story forth, that's all it
is.
And you know, if you'restudying computer science, one
would seeing her come around herparents' house with people from
(33:53):
casts of shows and I was like,wow, who are all these people?
(34:24):
Woman has been in a trajectoryof black actors that have made
their mark on the screen,certainly in the 1970s, but she
was.
She had a Broadway careerbefore she appeared on the
screen and you know the littletube, the television, and she
was always so proud of mebecause she would always tell me
(34:46):
as I was doing things, becauseI was low, under the radar, the
commercial radar, but she knewwhat I was doing.
She said, man, what you'redoing is so important.
She said you just keep doingthat, just keep being you.
And she was always so proud ofthat and I always held that in
my heart, that and I always, Ialways, I always held that in my
(35:06):
heart.
I always tried to get her to dothings later and come and talk
to universities and stuff, butshe always shied away from it.
You see, because she's been incertain books that people read
about her and they go, wow, shedid this.
You know, this is what you know.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
I know Tia has a few kind of questions to wrap us up
here, but when I think aboutagain, just just from from my
vantage point when I think aboutblack folks on on screen and in
plays and things like that, Ialways see us kind of depicting
what happened in the past ormaybe even telling our story of
the present, or maybe eventelling our story of the present
(35:44):
.
I think one of the things thatwas so impactful about a movie
like like Wakanda, you know,like Black Panther, it gave a
quasi vision for a future.
You know, it allowed, I think,the black community to dream,
even if that's all it did.
Right To dream of somethingbigger than what was current and
bigger than than maybe what thepast has been.
(36:06):
Are you seeing more than whatwe're?
You know we're just seeing asjust folks that are watching?
You know, common TV and movies.
Are you seeing enough of thatin your spaces in terms of this
forward thinking, futuristictype of performances for our
culture audiences?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
for our culture and if not, why not?
No, it may be, you know, insmaller theaters, which
hopefully it will get.
You know, there are all kindsof writers now that are doing
all kinds of wonderful things,but you have to, you know,
curate the audience to come intothose.
You know, shows.
And so if you have a theater upin Harlem, like the National
(36:47):
Black Theater and a couple ofother spaces, those audiences
are used to coming in seeingmore avant-garde stuff.
La Mama, down in the EastVillage in New York, they're
used to seeing more avant-gardestuff which is moving into other
off-Broadway spaces.
But Broadway is about money andit's about, you know, it's
(37:11):
getting the butts in the seats.
Who's going to spend the money?
Listen, denzel Washington'sOthello Othello's always done
somewhere.
And now all of a sudden you'vegot Denzel Washington and Jake
Gyllenhaal.
Those tickets are going for$1,000.
The average person who's goingto spend $1,000 to go see that
play?
There will be people, but mostpeople I know don't have $500
(37:34):
for a ticket, $600.
That's ridiculous, but they'llget it.
It'll be interesting to seewhat happens.
But that's Shakespeare andpeople are going to see Denzel
and, just like when he didAugust Wilson's Fences on
Broadway and all that, but thosetickets weren't $800.
It's ridiculous.
So, yeah, I think that in timethere's Top Dog Underdog I don't
(38:02):
know if you know that title,susan Laurie Parks.
That's been on Broadway.
It was on Broadway again lastyear.
They brought it back, but inthe sci-fi realm, or what is
called, there's a certain termfor it.
There are people writing aboutit.
You can tell me what's the nameof the great sci-fi writer?
(38:23):
African-american female.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
I don't know her name off the top of my head, but I
just learned about it the otherday, yeah, so more of that has
to be done and put out there.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Be put out there.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
So I think while you're in that vein, though, let
our listeners know how theysupport that.
So I think there are thethere's kind of the double-edged
sword here, where you havepeople that are actually writing
it and putting it out, but alsothose that will or won't go see
it or won't even know that it'shappening, won't even know that
it was written and that it'sout.
(38:58):
How do we, if we're completelydisconnected from the arts and
arts arenas, how do we plug into even know what's happening in
this space so that we cansupport it?
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Well, you know, I'm not on social media.
That's personal choice.
So I mean, I'm sure there arepeople out there.
You can get on all kinds oflistservs and you know all that
stuff is out there on socialmedia.
So I mean, that's today howpeople find things and then once
they become aware of this, thenyou've got to start doing the
(39:32):
research and finding out theother works that people have
done.
That's how you do it.
But you have to have a love ofbeing able to be a detective and
start saying, oh, this persondid that, like Walter Mosley the
writer I mean, you know hewrote quite a few saying, oh,
this person did that, likeWalter Mosley, the writer I mean
, you know, wrote quite a few,he's written quite a few books,
you know, and so.
But you know, people have tohave that love of reading.
(39:54):
Do people have it anymore?
I'm speaking very broadly.
You know that's a learned.
I have to read something everynight before I go to bed.
But that's a habit.
You see, I read all of the.
I read the Washington Post, Iread the New York Times.
I mean I try to stay informed.
Al Jazeera, I try to stayinformed.
(40:15):
You know, I don't watchtelevision anymore.
I mean if somebody's onsomething that I know on
streaming, whatever Netflix orwhatever, but I don't network
television.
I haven't watched that in along time.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
NK Jemison, is that who you're thinking of?
The African-American woman, thewriter?
No NK, oh, okay, all right,she's a big one.
That's the one I thought youwere referring to.
Good, good and.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
I'll have to look her up too, because I'm quiet, I'm
not.
I don't even know where tostart researching.
So I'll let y'all have that, butI do think I know you have to
run, so I want to just kind ofin a bit of a culminating
statement.
I would love for you to justkind of think back over your
(41:02):
career and think about theattributes that you think are
the most important, or whataspects either of your
discipline or of your work ethic, or of even some things that
may have been instilled in youas a child, what have been the
most significant things, aspectsof your success?
(41:24):
What do you attribute yoursuccess to?
What do you think has made thismetro opera singer in America
with a clip-on tie?
Now to this point How'd you gethere?
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yeah, no one's ever given me a thing.
I've always worked hard.
I was just telling somebody theother day I've never, no one's
ever, given me a daggone thing.
I've always worked hard.
I was just telling somebody theother day I had paper routes.
When I was in high school Istill had a paper route Going to
school doing shows, tellingfriends take my route, because a
couple of my friends knew theroute, and I worked hard.
(42:03):
I never had anybody give meanything that I didn't really
work for.
You know what's the old adagein our community you got to work
two and three times as hardjust to get.
You know, that's what I did,but I never had a chip on my
shoulder about it.
And I still work hard.
That's what I'm saying.
Now for me to evaluate all theseother people.
(42:25):
I mean, I have four FulbrightsIf people in the audience know
what that is.
I have four Fulbrights.
I sit on the commission now.
I didn't knock on these doors.
People came to me, you see, andit's hard work helping others.
I'm helping a young brotherright now that I coached and he
(42:49):
won some acting awards recentlyand he's getting ready to do
something else.
He's calling me, you know, andthat's what I do, because I had
plenty of people that helped me,and so I believe in helping
others.
You know who have had thoseopportunities, others you know
(43:10):
who have had those opportunities, and so that's to try to have
an unselfish spirit and pass iton, that's the only way.
And that just doesn't mean blackfolk, plenty of white students
as well.
They don't come in a room andsay if it wasn't for this man
here, I wouldn't be where I amright now.
One of my former students,who's white, known him since
he's 19,.
His first book he dedicated tome not his father and his father
(43:33):
knew me and he called hisfather.
He says, dad, I'm going todedicate the book to Barron
because he called me BarronKelly.
And his father said of courseyou are.
That was it.
His father died last year andPeter said my father loved you,
man.
And I said, yeah, yeah, you'relucky that you had your father,
man.
So that's it.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
That's it.
I love that.
You know T.
I don't know if I'm going tohave an opportunity to share
this little piece of blackhistory, but I don't know if you
know we had a cute chorale incollege.
I used to sing in the cutechorale.
I don't know if I ever told youthat Tia.
I am a listen, I promise you.
I promise you.
(44:16):
I got some fraternity brothersthat can vouch for that.
We sang in the cute chorale.
I at one point was a stageperformer.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
We're here with a director right now, right now,
so we don't need cues.
We can get a little, I mean.
So.
No, no, no, I said back in thedays you retired, back in the
days you retired.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So Omega Psi Phi had a corraland you, yeah yeah, you, yep,
yep.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
We used to do what we were saying snapping the
fingers and the whole nine.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah, we did that.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
That's beautiful, little known black history fact.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
You know what I mean.
You're getting all these goodblack history facts on this call
today.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Definitely little known and not one that is coming
to the stage.
It sounds anytime soon.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
Not no time soon.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
I got to pull those brothers from real professional
jobs at this soon.
Speaker 4 (45:06):
I got to pull those brothers from real professional
jobs at this point.
I don't think any of us aregoing to get on the stage at
this point.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
I think that you could Right now just for the
sake of.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
No, that's not going to happen we tried.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Thanks for pulling this out of him we never, would
have heard this story on thepodcast forever in life?
We never would have heard thisstory on the podcast forever in
life.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
We got a whole singer in the Q Corral, wow, alright.
Well, if you see him next time,dr Kelly, in a clip on Tide,
just know what's happening.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Before we go.
There's some wonderful actorsout there that people probably
don't know their names, but youneed to keep your eye on it.
Jarrell Jerome is one.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
I mean, he was in Moonlight.
When they See Us.
Speaker 4 (45:59):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
He's in Unstoppable right now.
I mean, he's phenomenal,phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
It was like Lorenz Tate when Lorenz Tate busted on
the scene in Minister Society,you know.
So I mean you know, but anyway,there are a whole slew of
people Carrie if people haven'tseen the 6888,.
Carrie Washington, about theBlack Battalion of Female Wax in
World War II, which was basedon a true story.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
Tyler Perry did it, netflix, I think.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
Yeah, tyler Perry did the excellent job.
Hold on, ronnie.
Have you seen it, ronnie?
Speaker 4 (46:33):
No, I haven't seen it .
I've seen the trailer.
No, I have not seen it, but Iknow what he's talking about.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
Oh, my God, dr Kelly, I've seen it.
I can't even count the timesnow.
If I just need background, I'mplaying it.
It's that good, ronnie, youhave not.
So you're singing in a choraleand you haven't seen 6888.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
Like come on Mm-mm, mm-mm.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Thank you for calling that out.
That is a good one.
You should have seen that bynow.
Speaker 4 (47:05):
Is that your way of making up for not knowing what
Uncle Nearest Whiskey is?
I?
Speaker 3 (47:08):
didn't know who Uncle Nearest was.
Wait, you know who UncleNearest is too.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Oh no, I'm just listening to the two of you?
Speaker 3 (47:17):
Okay, good, do you?
But I'm not a drinker like that.
Oh, but see, you knew it had todo with alcohol.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
So low key, he is Low key, he does know.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
He does know, he actually does know.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
I didn't know.
I didn't even know what it wasaffiliated with.
I had no idea, anywho.
Well, I'm not a drinker likethat either.
So then there you have it.
But I didn't know it wasassociated.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
Actually, I'm going to blame that on why I can't
sing anymore and kook around.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
That's actually Not so much.
I mean, at least watch yourpurple anyway.
Anyway, we're not going to taketoo much more of your time.
We thank you so much for havingjoined, just for joining us
today, for sharing all the greatthings you're doing, for the
work that you're doing aroundthe globe.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
We're just so proud and happy that you could join us
, thank you, thanks, cuz Yep,and I'll send it to my
girlfriend.
Send it to me so she can listento it.
So, I'm going to send it to herso right before she goes to
sleep, she can listen to it andfall asleep.
Beautiful no, to help her,she's going to say oh God, here
(48:21):
he goes again talking.
She can go to sleep.
She can go to sleep.
She can go to sleep now.
Speaker 3 (48:28):
It's going to be because of the sound of your
voice.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Yeah right.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
Thank you so much.
You have a great day today.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
Okay, bye-bye, y'all.
Take care Okay bye-bye, bye-bye, I like to be educated.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
But I'm so frustrated way I wish I knew how much I
missed that moment that we'reall screwed when we play our
(49:23):
roles and ignore the problems.
I like to be away and morepatient.
Stay up.
I feel so outdated.
(49:43):
How can we look the other way?
Sun is out, but the sky is gray.
What would happen if I took achance?
It's always hard at firstglance.
I don't wanna, but I know Igotta do it.
The truth is hard to swallow.
I think I'll chew it, yeah yeah.
(50:22):
I wish I knew how much I missednot knowing that we're all
screwed when we play our rolesand ignore the problems.
(50:43):
I wish I knew how much I missnot knowing that we're all
screwed when we play our rolesand ignore the problems.
(51:04):
I wish I knew.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.