December 8, 2024 • 46 mins
Ever wondered what it takes to protect your business from the lurking threats of the digital world? Join us as cybersecurity expert James Bracken, representing ESET in Western Canada, spills the beans on his journey from the sizzling kitchens of Ontario to the high-stakes world of cybersecurity. James opens up about the striking parallels between these two high-pressure jobs, where creativity, resilience, and stress management are crucial. You'll discover how cybersecurity is woven into the fabric of business success, safeguarding assets, and propelling growth.
Throughout our conversation, James illuminates ESET’s distinctive research and development-focused approach that sets them apart in a saturated cybersecurity market. We discuss the significance of building robust partnerships and how aligning with trusted IT partners can unravel the complexities of navigating current technologies and startups. Learn how forming relationships based on trust and shared values can lay a solid foundation for evaluating cybersecurity solutions, paving the way for effective communication and collaboration.
James also shares indispensable advice on engaging with cybersecurity vendors and the vital role of educating businesses about threats such as ransomware. From the value of transparency in negotiations to the importance of knowing your budget and capabilities, this episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone keen on fortifying their cybersecurity strategy. To wrap up, James invites listeners to connect with him, fostering an open dialogue on all things cybersecurity. Don’t miss out on these invaluable strategies to bolster your business against ever-evolving cyber threats.
Find James at:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-bracken-127517b7/
https://www.eset.com
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Sell Me This Podcast is brought to you by the team at Deliver Digital, a Calgary-based consulting organization that guides progressive companies through the selection, implementation, and governance of key technology partnerships. Their work is transforming the technology solution and software provider landscape by helping organizations reduce costs and duplication, enhance vendor alignment, and establish sustainable operating models that empower digital progress.
If you believe you deserve more from your technology partnerships – connect with the team at:
www.deliverdigital.ca
This episode of Sell Me This Podcast was expertly edited, filmed, and produced by Laila Hobbs and Bretten Roissl of Social Launch Labs, who deliver top-tier storytelling and technical excellence. A special thanks to the entire team for their dedication to crafting compelling content that engages, connects, and inspires.
Sell Me This Podcast is brought to you by the team at Deliver Digital, a Calgary-based consulting organization that guides progressive companies through the selection, implementation, and governance of key technology partnerships. Their work is transforming the technology solution and software provider landscape by helping organizations reduce costs and duplication, enhance vendor alignment, and establish sustainable operating models that empower digital progress.
If you believe you deserve more from your technology partnerships – connect with the team at:
www.deliverdigital.ca
This episode of Sell Me This Podcast was expertly edited, filmed, and produced by Laila Hobbs and Bretten Roissl of Social Launch Labs, who deliver top-tier storytelling and technical excellence. A special thanks to the entire team for their dedication to crafting compelling content that engages, connects, and inspires.
Find the team at Social Launch Labs at:
www.sociallaunch
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Exactly, let's check the box and let's move on.
They've been told by theircyber insurance provider they
need to have XYZ, and they don'tknow what XYZ does.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome back to another episode of Sell Me this
Podcast.
Today we are tackling a topicthat's not just a concern for IT
professionals, but a criticalfocus for businesses of all
sizes Cybersecurity.
Our guest, james Bracken, is atrusted expert and the face of
ESET in Western Canada, with aunique career path that started
in the high-pressure world ofkitchens and led to the equally
(00:37):
high-stakes field ofcybersecurity.
James shares his perspectiveson what it takes to protect
business in today's ever-lovingthreat landscape.
In this episode, we'll explorehow cybersecurity fits into
broader business goals, thecommon mistakes organizations
make when securing theirenvironments.
James also breaks down howsmall businesses can avoid
becoming easy targets, but makesESET's approach to
(01:00):
cybersecurity stand out.
Whether you're a businessleader looking to protect your
assets or an IT professionalseeking actionable advice, this
episode has something for you.
Welcome again to another episodeof Sell Me this Podcast.
This time we dive into a worldthat seems to be on the tip of
the tongue for most businessleaders, but also probably has
(01:20):
the highest ratio of sleeplessnights created.
That is right.
We are talking aboutcybersecurity.
To dive into this topic, I'msuper grateful to have James
Bracken with me.
James is from ESET, and ESET isa privately owned global leader
in security that provides asophisticated suite of products
that protect both businesses andconsumers alike.
(01:40):
James is not only a longtimefriend, but is also the face of
ESET for Western Canada and hasbeen leading the company through
a period of tremendous growthin the region here.
So, without further ado,welcome James from ESET.
Thanks, keith, great to be here.
Man, great to be here with you,awesome to have you here.
So I know, james, just to diveright into things, you come from
a little bit of anon-traditional background,
(02:01):
that's right, yeah, and what's aunique path that led you to
where you are?
Why don't you share witheveryone where you came from and
what led you to ESET?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Absolutely.
Yeah, long winding road forsure to get to this point.
Really grateful for the peoplethat helped me along the way.
I actually was a chef for 10years.
I worked in kitchens from allover Ontario and some fine
dining restaurants.
Some Worked in kitchens fromall over Ontario and some fine
dining restaurants some lessthan fine dining restaurants as
well in there.
(02:30):
And, yeah, I worked my way upand when 20, I guess it was 2014
, 2015, ish I just was fallingout of love with the industry.
The things that I had reallyloved about it was the
creativity, the ability tocreate art on a plate, which was
really fun.
And as I got more into thebusiness side of it as a head
chef scheduling, managing peopleand those types of things it
(02:53):
became, the love of the art ofit started to fade from me, and
it's a high impact job.
It's a very high impact job andit can be very rewarding, but
it can also be extremelystressful and at the time, I was
starting my life with my, mybeautiful partner, steph, and,
and I wanted to be at home more.
(03:13):
I wanted to spend more time athome and you work 75 hours a
week in a kitchen but you're notgetting you're working lawyer
hours, but you're not gettingpaid lawyer money.
I really wanted to get out ofthat and I got the opportunity
to do my.
I come from a long line ofsalespeople, so my dad was a
salesperson, my mom was asalesperson, my uncle was a
salesperson.
Both my older brothers aresalespeople and have been very
(03:35):
successful in it.
My aunt Pam, she really alwayspushed me hey, you should get
into sales, you should get intosales, go get into sales.
You got.
You got the ability to talk topeople and get to know people.
You should go leverage that.
And so I listened to her.
Finally, I listened to her andgot the opportunity to work for
a company that sold CAD,software engineering firms, 3d
(03:57):
printers and those types ofthings, and it was.
It was a great opportunity andI'm really grateful for the to
the people there that were ableto give me that leg up.
And it's funny enough, when ESETcame knocking at the time I was
really spreading my wings insales.
I'd moved up really quicklyfrom inside sales to account
management and had really done areally good job and I was
(04:19):
really starting to settle in andsettle in and feel it and I
told them when I first took the,when I first took the call, I
said I'm not super interestedright now.
I really want to stay where I'mat.
I'm just starting to grow andfeel some type of success.
I missed opportunity is onethat you don't see it at all.
So I went in, I took theinterview and instantly I knew
(04:39):
this was a place I wanted to bethe people, the atmosphere I
wanted to work there, be a partof that culture, and it's been
very rewarding ever since, forsure.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
That's amazing.
So you went from thehigh-pressure world of a kitchen
into the high-pressure world ofcybersecurity.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, it definitely is a high-pressure world and
cybersecurity is definitely onthe top of mind right now, and
it's a very competitive andgrowing industry.
But it's also very rewarding, Ithink, when you work with
businesses and you're able tohelp them achieve their business
goals and protect what they'vebuilt, I think it's a very
rewarding aspect of it.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
So, from a lot of the conversations that you're in,
how does security fit intohelping them achieve those
business goals specifically?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, that's a great question, I think, when it comes
to security, I think when Ieven when I first started here
so I've been at ESET for I'm inmy seventh year now when I first
started, even then,cybersecurity was very commodity
based.
It was good protection, lowprice.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Let's check the box Exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Let's check the box and let's move on.
And while that still issometimes people's lens on
cybersecurity, I think it'sreally developed into a part
that really dictates how thebusiness moves forward.
I think that in order to havegood outcomes on your business
(06:07):
goals, you need to leveragetechnology right.
You need to be having the bestin class in different pieces of
technology that allow yourworkforce to either collaborate
better or to sell moreeffectively or develop products
more effectively and, at the endof the day, achieve those
business outcomes Effectively,or develop products more
effectively and, at the end ofthe day, achieve those business
outcomes.
And you need to have a platformthat's going to be able to
(06:27):
protect from outside attacks andsometimes inside threats,
without stopping that creativity, stopping the use of those
tools and our industry, as Iknow you're aware, we have zero
trust, that's all great.
Zero trust is great to have, butif you're going to pay a
million dollars for all theseapplications that are there to
(06:50):
create faster to market roadsand create better communication
within the environment, and thenyou put a zero trust layer over
top of that, you might as wellgo back to pen and paper, right?
So that's, I think, where wefit in there is making sure that
businesses can do what theyneed to do without stopping the
flow of creativity andproductivity.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
And I love that outlook because I think there's
so many people in the securityindustry that focus so much on
the fear and if you don't buythese things, then X, y and Z
will happen.
But I think that there's thisother narrative and security
that is.
Here's the reason why you cando these things.
Here's the reason why you canwork from the lake, and here's
the reason you can collaborateon these documents with other
(07:34):
people and that approach issuper refreshing in terms of not
going to just bang in the drumof this super intense fear.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
And I think fear-based selling is it's a
tactic.
It's a tactic.
And even if you're not tryingto sell, what is it?
Fud right.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Fear.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Uncertainty and Doubt right, even if you're not
trying to leverage that.
There is an underlying tone offear when it comes to
cybersecurity and cyber attacksand ransomware attacks, and I
think that we're on this kind ofpendulum right now where, hey,
we're really worried about itand it's going to slide back to.
I think, once and maybe I'lltake that back for a sec we're
(08:15):
on this pendulum where we'rereally worried about it, but
then, as companies get a morerobust security posture, they
get lulled into a full sense ofsecurity that nothing's going to
happen, and then the pendulumswings back the other way and
that's when ransomware, that'swhen attacks happen, and I think
that we just need to becognizant about it.
It's a real threat, it's agrowing threat.
(08:36):
As long as ransom is being paid, ransomware is going to exist.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Attacks are going to happen right, definitely, and so
you probably have a very uniqueperspective in talking to a
bunch of different businessleaders that are either have the
horror story of somethingterrible that's happened and
that's motivated to change, orthey're just really afraid of
this.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
The kind of boogeyman that exists out there, when you
think about the changes and thedifference.
Okay, you worked in the kitchen.
You're working 75 hours a week.
You're grinding away.
You move into sales andsecurity.
What does a day look like foryou as a sales rep at ESET?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
That's a great question, and I was actually
just talking to someone aboutthis last night, and it's very
no one day looks the same.
That's really what it lookslike is very similar to a
kitchen.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
No one day looks the same.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, maybe in a kitchen, you come in and you do
your prep, you cut up your miseen place, you get your station
ready to go, but that lunchservice, dinner service,
whatever it is, it's never goingto be the exact same.
The orders are always going tocome in differently.
How you cook things is alwaysgoing to happen differently.
Mistakes that happen thatcreate backlogs are always going
to be different, and mistakesthat happen that create backlogs
(09:46):
are always going to bedifferent.
And I think it's very similarto that.
I've got my activities, I needto do my outreach, my tasks, all
of those things, but it's avery different day-to-day
outlook.
Based on one day I might bedoing something like this with
you and later this afternoon Imight be going home and working
on an RFP for the next threeweeks.
So, it is very day to day.
I think at the base of it isthe thing that I at least look
(10:11):
forward to most in my day istalking with customers either
existing customers or maybepotential buyers and learning
about their business, learningabout what's important in their
environment, and I think that'sreally what's exciting about it
is getting to know differentcompanies, getting to know how
they leverage different tools,and even inside and outside of
(10:32):
cybersecurity.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That makes sense and I think as well.
With ESET too.
You have a very uniqueopportunity and it probably a
little bit of a challenge aswell, in the sense that ESET is
very large in Europe but stillreally emerging in Canada and
growing your foothold here quiterapidly.
But outside of sponsoring theCalgary Flames, which I'm a
personal fan of, how are youconnecting with folks?
(10:53):
How are you telling the ESETstory?
Is it mostly learning frompeople and just listening, or is
there a path that you're on togo and spread the word of ESET?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I think you know the the pathESET is, and maybe I'll do a
little talk about ESET, but alittle bit about our focus in
the world.
As you said, we're privatelyowned.
We're owned by the same guysthat wrote the original code all
the way back when, and thattechnology and that view on how
(11:22):
our technology needs to worktogether has never left us.
We are not a marketing company,we are a research and
development company.
That's how I view it, and that'show I talk to people about it
is there's lots of greatproducts out there and there's
the top players in the world andthey have great products and
there's nothing wrong with theirproducts.
They're just a marketing companyfirst, with a product after,
(11:45):
where I think ESET is're just amarketing company first, with a
product after, where I thinkESET is a research and
development company first, witha product after.
And I think that's our key tosuccess.
And it might be a slower uptickin terms of how many
conversations walk through thedoor, but the conversations we
do have are more impactful and Ithink really what it is the
best road to success with us iskey partnerships, key
(12:09):
relationships within thosepartnerships to allow us to get
more at bat, to tell our storyin a one-on-one environment,
because when we we have a greatstory to tell and I think we've
got a phenomenal technologybehind that as well and great
people that work within ESETfrom I was again.
I was saying this last night tosomeone there's not one person
(12:29):
at ESET that's not willing to gothe extra mile, kind of thing,
and I think that's what'simportant.
So I think, to answer yourquestion, it's about strong
partnerships with people thatare able to get us into the seat
to tell our story, because whenwe tell that story, we're very
successful.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
That's amazing, and I think that one of the things
that you also mentioned is justthe amount of energy that goes
into the marketing engine andsecurity.
The most recent stats that Isaw is that security in the next
year alone so 2025, projected$200 billion industry in just
the revenue side of it.
There are so many new playersemerging.
(13:06):
There's a ton of startups.
There is a lot of investmenthappening in this space.
If I'm a potential buyer, howdo I cut through that noise?
How do I even start to thinkabout evaluating new
technologies?
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Well, first you got to partnerwith Keith and deliver to him.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Thank, you for the plug.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
He'll walk you through the buying process.
No, I think really what it comesdown to is, like you said, it's
a very crowded space and Ithink, as some of the larger
leaders have proven, that theIPO method can work.
Security in my I'm going togive a shout out to my boy,
(13:49):
pedro, our solution architectfor Western Canada.
Great guy, very smart, veryknowledgeable, and what he
always talks about it issecurity is.
It's such a risk that it'salmost not something you want to
leverage an IPO for.
There are some companies thathave done that successfully, but
I don't think it's thatrepeatable.
I think that those are reallyunicorns within the environment
(14:10):
and I think that it's reallytough to, as you said, to weed
out the good from the bad, theokay from the phenomenal.
And I think really what it'sabout is is leveraging your IT
partners, leveraging people youtrust to help you guide you with
good decision-making that knowyour environment.
(14:32):
Not every cybersecurityplatform, even ESET included, is
going to be the best for everyenvironment, right and every
single need.
So I think it's aboutpartnering with people that
understand the overarching goalsof what you're trying to
achieve with cybersecurity andyour overarching environment.
What's in there, what's not inthere, what do you want to do
(14:55):
with it down the road and helpletting those people guide you a
little bit more.
I know that there are peoplethat I talk to every single day.
They're smarter than me aboutcybersecurity Right, and that's
their job, that's theirprofession.
My goal is to take what theytell me and hear what they're
telling me, and if ESET's theright fit for them, then I'm
(15:18):
going to tell them why I thinkit is the right fit.
And if it's not the right fit,I'm going to tell them hey, this
is what we do really good, thisis what we're not going to do
quite as good, and maybe there'sa happy medium in there.
So I think, again, to go backand fully answer your question,
I think it's leveraging and,again, I know I gave you the
plug, but it's true, you got toleverage people like yourself,
(15:39):
companies like yourself trustedit, partners that have your best
interest at heart.
There's a lot of people outthere that are there to make
money.
We're all here to make money.
Right, we all need to pay ourbills and pay our mortgages and
do whatever life goals that weall have.
But I think that there's ahappy ground there where you can
offer good, sound advice andstill complete your sales
(16:03):
mission and your sales goal, andI think those are the type of
companies that people need towork with.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
They have some of the genuine relationships and some
of the actual foundation behindthem.
Yeah, one of the things that Isee in a lot of the
conversations that we have isjust people struggling to get
that foundation and to get thatmapping in place, to even
understand how to get started insome of these evaluations.
Is there any words of advice orwords of wisdom that you have
in terms of understanding how toevaluate some of those
(16:30):
potential fits?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yeah, I think for me I always say this people like
doing business with people thatthey like, right they?
You are going to find peopleout there that you like, you're
drawn to, you want to have openand honest conversations with,
and I think when you do that andput that out there, the right
person will meet that in kindwhere you can tell if someone's
(16:55):
trying to take advantage of thatRight.
And I think that as a firstbasis, you need to find people
that you want to work with.
You want to pick up the phoneand call and say, hey, I've got
a problem, can we talk about it?
Right, just like you got yourbuddy at home.
If you're having somerelationship issue or life
problem or you're switching jobsor whatever you're looking for
(17:15):
general advice, you can go tothem and trust that what they're
going to say to you isnon-biased and is their true
opinion of the overall status ofwhat you're trying to achieve.
And I think likely like that,you need to find those people
and I think Calgary is a greatexample of that.
There are a ton of amazingpeople in IT space.
(17:37):
It's a close-knitted community.
It's a great community to be apart of.
In the IT space.
There's a lot of phenomenalresellers out there and there's
a lot of good people that workwithin those resellers.
So you know, trying differentresellers, finding one that fits
with you and sticking with them.
I think that's a reallyimportant thing.
(17:58):
I think, as we go back to what Ifirst said cybersecurity used
to be commodity based, right,and maybe hardware to a point
still, as commodity based,lowest price wins.
Zadell is Zadell.
It doesn't really matter, aslong as it's getting shipped on
time and it's coming, and that'sgreat.
But at the same time, if you'realways just shopping out every
single deal that you have,you're not going to build
(18:21):
relationship with someone andyou're not going to have a
trusted advisor and you mightoverlook someone that could be a
trusted advisor because they're5% more on your Lenovo purchase
, right, right, and if you hadmaybe just said hey, I really
like this person, I'm going togive them that deal versus
bringing it to someone that'sgot the deal read or whatever it
(18:41):
is, favorable discounts.
I think that you'll createbetter relationships.
I get it.
We all have budgets we need tostick to.
We all have our sales goals.
We all have our metrics we allhave.
You know everything that weneed to do, but I think that you
need to be able to build arapport with people to see if
you can really trust them, andthe only way you're going to do
(19:03):
that is by taking a chance withpeople.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Is that one of the biggest mistakes that you see
people make is that they're tooquick to shop their partners or
they're too quick to save animmediate dollar.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I think so.
I genuinely think so.
I think that people, peopleneed to hit their metrics.
It's always the most importantthe KPI or business goal or
whatever it could be.
But I think that when we dothat and we're always going to
the bottom of the barrel.
It's just like in personal lifeIf you could go to a trusted
(19:34):
mechanic who might be moreexpensive, but they're going to
take the time to explain it toyou.
They're going to talk aboutwhat you need.
I just had this experience.
Steph and I we got a.
We got this old, 20 year oldVolkswagen this summer,
convertible for the summer.
It was a great opportunity forus to get it and it's probably
spent more time in the shop thanit has on the road.
But the person that we went towe chose them not because of
(19:58):
pricing or anything like that,because they were committed to
us to getting this thing back onthe road and getting it back
where it needs to be, and havegiven us sound advice and
through that time, they've alsogiven us free services and free
parts and different things thathave definitely brought that
dollar spend back down to us.
But we also know that they'rein our corner when I want to
(20:20):
talk to him about something.
I can get that answer.
I know that his advice.
If he said to me tomorrow heyman, we're at a point where you
should just sell this thing, Iwould trust that, where there's
a lot of mechanics out therethat maybe would be like hey,
let's just keep fixing thisthing until until they come back
.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
It's profitable for them to keep fixing it Exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
And so I think that when you chase the dollars and
cents, you're missing out onopportunities to work with real
people that will a benefit fromyour relationship but also want
to do that in turn for you andhelp you benefit from that.
So I think when it comes to apurchase of software or hardware
(20:59):
or anything like that, yeah, wehave to hit our budgets, but
taking a chance with someonethat you have good rapport with,
that you trust, even if they're10% more, will net you more
value in the longterm than justshopping out every single deal
you do.
Because what ends up happeningis when that reseller, that it
(21:20):
partner, whatever it may be getsin front of you and they do all
this hard work to show youtheir value and all of the
things that they want to do foryou, and then you take that and
bring it somewhere else just tosave a couple bucks.
A they're probably not going towant to do that again for you
and you've burned that bridgeright and B that person that's
the bottom of the barrel.
(21:41):
Pricing may just be an ordertaker, may not be into
relationships, they just want tohit their quota and move on.
And I'm not saying that's alwaysthe case for sure.
But I think that when we allhave purchasing power, we all
have our limits and what we needto do.
But I think if it can fitwithin your goal and it's a good
(22:01):
partner that you trust, I thinkthat's where you should spend
your time and your money.
You'll get more out of thatrelationship.
You'll have someone that's morebought in on your business,
like for myself.
We've got some clients and theymay have an issue with something
else in their environment andwe spend time and we work with
them to get them where they needto be with their ESET
(22:22):
deployment or whatever it may bethat's causing some issues for
them.
Because, as we know, you knowit doesn't matter how good your
product is on the oddenvironment, it's going to cause
issues, it's going to haveproblems and you need to fix
those and I think if you addressthose things head on and you
create the relationships,they're more likely to return,
come back to you and at leastgive you an opportunity to
(22:42):
continue to win their businessback to you and at least give
you an opportunity to continueto win their business.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
So can you describe the customer experience and what
that customer journey lookslike for a customer as they're
engaging?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
with ESET?
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's agreat question.
So you know, let's just saythat that person.
They saw an ad on the CalgaryFlames, right, and they said, oh
, what's ESET?
And they go online and theylook at it.
Okay, yeah, cybersecurity,we're interested, we've got a
need for this.
I'm going to reach out.
Maybe a lead comes in.
The first thing we're going todo either my, my, my teammate
(23:12):
Pat, who, who is our awesomeinside sales rep she's just an
absolute champion.
I think what we're going to dois we're going to reach out to
you to set up a discovery call.
We always want to understandwhat's going on in the
environment and what the needsare A for you to learn a little
bit about us and B for us tolearn a little about you.
But C, maybe right there onthat call, we're going to know
(23:35):
we're not a right fit for you oryou're not a right fit for us.
Whatever that may be, we'regoing to have that discovery
call, learn about theenvironment.
We're going to then, from thatpoint, we always try to book a
technical demo.
It really depends if someone'shey, I haven't heard of ESET
before and I want to learn somemore about you guys first, we'll
do that.
We'll do an introductionsection, talk about what we do,
(23:57):
where we came from, what we grewup from, that technology
focused.
We're not looking after ourshareholders, we're looking
after our customers, and I thinkthat's something that they
really want to hear, and I thinkthat's important.
After that, we'll move into ademo, a demonstration.
Show them all the environment,everything that we can do for
(24:18):
them, and what we really try todo on those calls is well, it's
not a presentation, and I prettymuch always say this hey guys,
this isn't a presentation, thisis a conversation.
So jump in, ask questions thatpertain to you.
Hey, I don't need to see this,I already understand all that.
That's great.
I want to learn about this.
That's what we want to hearabout.
(24:38):
We want to show you andcustomize it for your
environment.
So we always say that open door, talk to us about what your
needs are and what you're moreinterested in diving deep on.
We were on a call yesterday andwe were talking about all these
different stuff and what wasreally important to them is how
they're going to install it.
How can we leverage GPO MSI?
What are we going to do?
Do I have to send this viaemail?
(24:59):
How am I going to install thiswith ease?
So that's what.
We spent 35 minutes on showingthem how they're going to get
this out to their environmentwithout breaking a sweat right,
and that was impactful for them.
So we want to spend some timeon that.
From there, we'll move into thePOC stage.
So we'll walk them through, getthem set up and have them trial
(25:21):
it out while working throughtouch points with them, and then
, obviously, if they're happywith the product, then we can
get into the negotiations andall that good stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Amazing.
What are some of the bigmistakes that you see customers
make that in going through thisprocess, you'll be like I wish
you were doing somethingdifferently.
I wish you'd approach this inanother way.
Is there common mistakes orpitfalls customers commonly
making?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I think this actually goes back to a point I was
talking about earlier, which isevery day I'm in a conversation
with people that are smarterthan me in cybersecurity.
That doesn't mean I don't haveanything to offer them as well.
I think we need to open up ourminds and talk about things in a
holistic way, to learn fromeach other.
(26:05):
I always say it just becauseI've been in this job for seven
years.
I'm not an expert at it.
I can always learn.
I can learn from someone aheadof me.
I can learn from someone belowme, right?
There is no, there is no waythat we can't all learn from
each other, and I think that athing that we see a lot of is
customers making assumptions onwhat they think we can
(26:27):
accomplish or what they need toaccomplish their goals, when
there's other ways to go aroundit, and I think that's a big
mistake in all facets of life,we need to learn from each other
, and I think that just becausesomeone's a tenured expert
doesn't mean I want to learnfrom them, but it doesn't mean I
don't have anything that I canoffer them as well.
So I think letting people saywhat they need to say, talk
(26:50):
about the things that they thinkare important, and then hearing
that and giving that feedbackAmazing.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So I'm not asking you to give away any trade secrets,
but if I'm entering a deal ornegotiation with with you, with
ESET, maybe even a differentsecurity vendor.
Yeah, what's some tips ifyou're sitting on the other side
of the table?
For them to get the most out ofthat discussion, out of that
negotiation and out of that.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I'm really happy you said it.
I think people have thetendency Maybe I'll take that
back for a second.
People view sales tendency.
Maybe I'll take that back for asecond.
People view salespeople.
Yeah, hey, they're just tryingto earn a quick buck, which we
are.
We're trying to earn money.
Right and there's a lot ofpeople out there that will try
to take advantage of thatdynamic, for sure, but I think,
(27:36):
by and large, most people aregood people.
I like to think that at least,and I think people tend to be a
little bit cagey about whattheir true goals are, their true
needs are what they're reallyafter, and when they do that,
when they don't open the kimonoas they say.
I think it's really hard to geta true partnership.
I think it's really hard forsalespeople or sales
(27:59):
organizations or cybersecuritywhatever it may be, to engage in
a real way that will actuallybenefit them.
I liken it to personalrelationships.
If I'm always surface levelwith someone that's trying to
get deep with me, they're nevergoing to truly get to know me,
I'm never going to truly showthem who I really am and our
relationships never going toflourish.
(28:21):
If we open up to each other andtalk about real things and real
goals and real aspirations,we're going to grow a
relationship that's tangible.
And I think that comes intoselling.
If you want to get more out ofyour purchases, you need to get
buy-in from the companies you'retrying to buy from.
If you get buy-in there actuallyto go back to kitchens- I used
(28:41):
to always say hey, be friendswith the people that you're
working with the line cook nextto you, the person here because
you're more likely, or they'remore likely, to go the extra
mile for someone that extra 10%discount for you or whatever it
is or extend the deal or extenda trial or free licensing for a
(29:09):
month while you roll outwhatever that may be, if they
really truly know what yourgoals are and are really
connected to you.
So I think that a lot of buyerstend to be cagey with their
goals because they're afraid ofmaybe getting h counted by
salespeople nonstop or beingpushed into a decision they
don't want to make, or theythink that's how they're going
(29:30):
to get the most out of therelationship, by holding all
their cards close to the chestand then just saying, hey, I
need this price.
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
So do you think that people generally, when you're,
when someone reaches out to youor you're starting an engagement
with a customer, do you thinkthat they generally understand
the security landscape well?
Or how much education do youhave to take on or does your
team have to take on when you'regetting started with customers?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah.
So I think in cybersecuritythere's really there's like the
three bands.
There's the guys that are supereducated on cybersecurity
they're they've been, maybe theywork in a sock, maybe they're
high level security people andthey really understand all
facets of it and they're highlyeducated.
And then there's maybe thesmall business owner that is
(30:18):
doing everything for theircompany and doesn't know much
about it and needs a lot ofcoaching, needs a lot of
education.
They've been told by theircyber insurance provider they
need to have XYZ and they don'tknow what XYZ does or what it's
going to benefit or how muchit's going to cost or how to
even leverage a tool like that.
(30:38):
So I think on that end of thespectrum, it's a great deal of
handholding, it's a great dealof educationholding, it's a
great deal of education thatneeds to go into it.
And then I think the middlecamp of it all would be the IT
manager.
That is a jack of all trades,right, and they're doing
everything.
And we see that a lot incompanies right, a lot of
(30:59):
businesses is not going to be arevenue generating segment of
their business.
It's going to be a loss leader.
They're investing into it,they're spending a lot of it,
but it's not like a sales forceor their main product or
anything like that, and I thinkthose people also need a lot of
not hand holding, but they needa better.
(31:19):
There is an educational gapthere for what cybersecurity can
do for them, why it's importantfor them and why it shouldn't
just be glazed over on.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Are you seeing a change in the type of buyers
that you're working with, If Ithink about how technology is
starting to really spread acrossorganizations?
It's no longer the CIO ordirector of IT or the jack of
all trades.
IT manager sitting in a darkroom coding away.
These are people that are atthe forefront of their business.
They're enabling and we'reseeing interest from across all
(31:54):
levels of leadership in theorganization around how IT will
enable and drive their business.
Are you seeing securitystarting to enter that
conversation on the periphery oris security still stuck with
the IT teams?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I think it goes back to what I was saying at the
start is people are either veryunder, maybe not understanding
of what the true threat is outthere, but they're very worried
about it.
And then there's the otherpeople that think we're too
small or we've never had anissue, or those, and I think
(32:29):
that it's really two camps ofpeople.
It's really two camps of people.
I do agree with you, though it'snot.
It's no longer more.
I would say it's growing to nolonger be just the IT guy, just
the manager, just the sysadmin,just whatever that may be making
these decisions in a silo.
They need to get buy-in fromthe presidents, the CEOs, the
(32:52):
VPs of the organization thatthey answer to.
Particularly in largerbusinesses, you definitely see
the business leaders being moreinvolved in the purchasing than
just the security team or the ITteam, and I think that's
important.
I think it's important for themto know that what's going on,
(33:14):
and I spend a lot of time in myrole with partners trying to
educate business leaders on what, not again creating fear.
But hey, the threat is outthere, and in Canada in
particular, we've seen a massivespike in ransomware in SMB
right, and I think that's causedby a few different things and
(33:36):
we could definitely get intothat if you want.
But I think that a lot of peoplein that space maybe in the sub
500 seats, sub 500 employee typespace thinking it's not going
to happen to us.
We're too small, right, butthese guys are the bad actors.
They're sophisticated, they aredoing this as a full-time job.
(33:58):
When they take a look into yourenvironment, they're not going
to.
If you're doing $2 million inbusiness a year, they're not
going to say give us $2 million.
They're going to say give us$100,000, give us 50 K, whatever
it is that they know you canpay and to get the most out of
that.
And I think that those peopleneed the most education, those
groups of clients, they need themost education to what's
(34:22):
happening and they need the mosthelp with decision-making.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
That makes sense when you think about and you
mentioned fear and you mentionedthis Lumion threat that exists.
How much of purchase decisionsthat you see are based on that
fear and, if not, what are theorganizations trying to solve
for when they're purchasing aproduct, like you said?
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, oh well, that's a great question.
I think there's a lot of layersto that question, I think I
think generally, when it'sfear-based purchases, it is it's
because something's happened.
There's already someone inthere, there's already something
that's gone on and we'rehitting the reaction button.
(35:05):
I don't think there's a lot ofpurchases that are made out of
unknowledgeable fear.
So what I mean by that isthere's the fear that
something's already happened.
We know something's happenedand we need to react to it
immediately.
And then there's people thatare educated on what could
potentially happen and they'remaking decisions based on that.
(35:27):
And I wouldn't necessarily callthat fear.
I would call that being smart.
I would say, hey, we need toprotect our assets and this is
our assets.
And then there's, I think, thepeople that are uneducated on
what could potentially happenand they don't have enough fear.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
If I'm being completely frank, and I feel
like in this space specifically,the more people know, the more
nervous they get, and I thinkthat it's the idea that
ignorance is blessed a tiny bit,especially with security.
But I think it's getting harderand harder to hide under a rock
.
I agree On that front.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, I totally agree With one of our partners here,
our local partners really greatgroup of people.
They're very technology forward.
They run an MS, local MSPmanaged service provider.
For those that don't know, justabout educating them on the
(36:21):
history of ransomware, cyberattacks, where it's coming from
and why it is growing so rapidlyin Canada.
And I think that educationwasn't about let's all be scared
that the boogeyman in Russia isgoing to come over here and
grab all of our things, but it'smore so that I think we need to
(36:43):
educate people so theyunderstand what the true threat
is, and I think when they'reeducated on that, they're going
to make better businessdecisions on how to protect
themselves against these threatactors and against these things.
Mgm grand millions of dollarsor the pipeline a couple summers
(37:09):
ago that drove up the cost ofgas across North America yeah,
those are massive ransomwareattacks.
But now we're dealing withsomething called ransomware as a
service.
Just like software as a service.
You can buy ransomware as aservice and you can go in.
If you do that, if you and Iwere, hey, let's move to
wherever Bora, wherever we cango that doesn't have extradition
treaty and wanted to do this,we're not going to have
(37:30):
protection from a localgovernment.
We're not state sponsors,actors, so we need to go after
small businesses that if westeal 50K from them the RCMP and
the FBI they don't have time todeal with that.
It's like if I go to a store,which I would never do- it's
just full disclosure, yeah, fulldisclosure.
This is completely hypothetical.
And I was to steal a t-shirt.
(37:52):
No one's going to investigatethat.
If it's not obvious that I didthat, no one's investigating
that.
Now, if I go and I'm gone in 60seconds with a crew of 100
people and I steal 500 cars inCalgary in the next night, we're
going to have cops coming in.
They're going to spend money toget that assets back and bring
(38:12):
us to justice.
And I think it's a very similarthing in cybersecurity If
you're under the radar andyou're doing these 5K, 10k, 50k
ransomwares 50 times a day,you're underneath the radar, and
all of the big, large breachesthat we've actually brought back
the Bitcoin or the crypto, theShiba Inu, whatever it is back
(38:35):
from the other side, it's allbeen these massive million
dollar payouts and that's whatgets the attention.
So I think that is a little bitof what's going on here and I
think that is something thatpeople need to be educated on.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Perfect.
So I'm going to switch gears atiny bit.
Yeah, I want to talk about theideal customer for yourself, for
ESET.
So if you were to describe whata good customer for ESET would
be, how would you describe thatbusiness?
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, every customer.
Now, I think really the idealcustomer, by our company
standards for sure, would be the1,000 seat customer to the 100
seat customer, and I think thereason for that personally, is
everyone's knocking at the largeguy's door and it's not that's
not important to go after.
We all need to go after that.
(39:22):
And it's not that's notimportant to go after.
We all need to go after that.
And our business model is goodfor large organizations.
We support in Europe largebanks.
We support tons of massiveorganizations in Europe and
across North America as well.
But I think we can be moreimpactful via a relationship and
how we handle our business atESET.
(39:43):
We're very relationship-basedsellers across the board and I
think that we can have a better,more longstanding relationship
with a smaller customer thatwe're going to be able to really
truly impact their business andwe're not one of many, we're
one of one and we can reallyhelp them grow and I think
that's the ideal customer for us.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
If you were to coach this ideal customer before they
engage with you?
What is one thing you wish theyknew before they?
They started that conversation.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
What their budget was .
Okay, no, I say that in jest,but I really also believe that
too, I think.
I think, if you're, you need toget the right security that
meets your goals and meets yourbudget, and I think, a lot of
time.
There's a lot of good securityvendors out there that are
extremely expensive, and there'sa lot of good ones that are are
(40:34):
maybe a little bit lower cost,and I think that if you want to
be buying a Ferrari, you got tohave the budget Ferrari, and I
think that that's a reallyimportant piece.
Buying a Ferrari, you got tohave the budget Ferrari, and I
think that that's a reallyimportant piece.
The other thing I think isreally important is be realistic
with what you can handle.
We see a lot of a couple ofyears ago, cyber insurance
across North America reallymandated that everyone has an
(40:56):
EDR or an XDR, an MDR, and Ithink that is that was great for
them to mandate that.
But the small shop with one ITperson, they can't manage an EDR
successfully.
They can't manage those toolsproperly because they don't have
the manpower behind it.
So when you are going andyou're going to go buy an EDR,
(41:19):
you need to be realistic.
Can I manage this?
Can I handle the work that'sgoing to come behind this, or do
I need to outsource that?
Do I need an MDR?
Do I need a managed serviceprovider?
What does that look like?
So, I think, being realistic inwhat you want and you actually
have time to manage.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
And so that's something we haven't covered,
but it is a real challenge inthe industry, where I'm sure you
see it as well, where there'slots of organizations that
they'll go out and they'll spendincredible amounts of money on
different software platforms andtools and strategies in order
to solve various specificproblems, but then really
struggle with how do theyimplement it, how do they govern
it, how do they manage itafterwards.
(41:58):
What advice would you have fororganizations as they're trying
to consolidate or make sense ofall of these tools and
investments that they've alreadymade, that they can't quite
turn on?
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah, I think I'll give you a great example.
When I used to sell CADsoftware there are some really
robust tools within CAD softwareand I had one conversation
during a cold call.
And you're selling to engineersand the engineer was sitting
there and I was saying, hey,this is what we could accomplish
with this software.
And you know what he said to me.
He said you know what?
That's great, but then whatwould I do?
(42:34):
My boss might want to cut thisrole.
If I don't, if I'm not doingthis manually, maybe I don't
have a job Right, and I thinkthat when it comes to it, maybe
there's a little bit of thatthere as well.
If I'm not doing thispersonally, I'm not protecting
my role here, which I don'tthink is fair.
I think maybe it's it's healthyto be a little skeptical
sometimes, but I don't thinkthat's fair, because how
(42:55):
expansive it is, don't be afraidto ask for help.
Don't be afraid to tell yourbusiness leader I can't manage
this all by myself and there aregaps.
I'm working till nine o'clockevery single night and that's
going to lead to burnout.
And if you are just doing thebare minimum across everything,
(43:16):
there's going to be massive gaps.
So I think asking for help,letting your business leaders
know where they're failing youin terms of budget, in terms of
manpower, and that there areways to outsource and get help
outside of the organization.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Perfect.
So this is a big moment now.
So, considering that everythingwe've talked about, what would
be the top reason for someone toconnect with ESET to solve some
of these challenges, this isthe big pitch moment, the big
pitch moment.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I think.
If you're looking for a companythat is focused on customer
engagement, having a truerelationship where we can
there's give and take and we cangive you sound advice and learn
from you and really try tounderstand your business needs
and make sure we're a good fitfor your business, I think
(44:08):
that's the type of partnershipthat we are looking for and that
people that are approaching usshould be looking for.
We are we lovingly joke aboutthis to the nerds right.
If you're looking for someonethat is a world leader in
research and development and notjust pushing our own business
forward but cybersecurity as awhole forward, we are that
(44:30):
company for you.
We have an amazing serviceoffering with an amazing service
team behind that that have beendoing this for years and years.
Internally, for example, manageddetection response MDR very hot
right now.
That's something we've beendoing for ourselves very
successfully for time andbecause of that, we're going to
(44:51):
be a little bit lower cost onwhat the service actually is,
because we're not building itfrom scratch to offer it to
customers.
We already had it in-house andyou're going to gain access to
our researchers, to the peoplethat are actually doing the
threat hunting and doing thosethings on your environment.
So if you're looking for acompany that really understands
(45:12):
cybersecurity from a holisticview, it does more to educate
and work within governments andother entities to offer how to
push cybersecurity forwardacross the globe, we are that
company for you?
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Amazing.
And if someone really lovedwhat they heard here today,
what's the best way for them toget in touch with?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
you.
Yeah, you can reach out onLinkedIn, james Bracken.
B-r-a-c-k-e-n.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
And.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
I also have my email jamesbracken, at esetcom.
I'm happy to chat with anyonethat wants to learn a little bit
more or just wants to discusssomething with me, whether it's
about ESET or just cybersecurityon the whole.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Amazing.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
This was a blast, absolutely, man.
It was great being here, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
I love it Great.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Thank you, man.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Thanks so much.
Exactly, let's check the box and let's move on.
They've been told by theircyber insurance provider they
need to have XYZ, and they don'tknow what XYZ does.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome back to another episode of Sell Me this
Podcast.
Today we are tackling a topicthat's not just a concern for IT
professionals, but a criticalfocus for businesses of all
sizes Cybersecurity.
Our guest, james Bracken, is atrusted expert and the face of
ESET in Western Canada, with aunique career path that started
in the high-pressure world ofkitchens and led to the equally
(00:37):
high-stakes field ofcybersecurity.
James shares his perspectiveson what it takes to protect
business in today's ever-lovingthreat landscape.
In this episode, we'll explorehow cybersecurity fits into
broader business goals, thecommon mistakes organizations
make when securing theirenvironments.
James also breaks down howsmall businesses can avoid
becoming easy targets, but makesESET's approach to
(01:00):
cybersecurity stand out.
Whether you're a businessleader looking to protect your
assets or an IT professionalseeking actionable advice, this
episode has something for you.
Welcome again to another episodeof Sell Me this Podcast.
This time we dive into a worldthat seems to be on the tip of
the tongue for most businessleaders, but also probably has
(01:20):
the highest ratio of sleeplessnights created.
That is right.
We are talking aboutcybersecurity.
To dive into this topic, I'msuper grateful to have James
Bracken with me.
James is from ESET, and ESET isa privately owned global leader
in security that provides asophisticated suite of products
that protect both businesses andconsumers alike.
(01:40):
James is not only a longtimefriend, but is also the face of
ESET for Western Canada and hasbeen leading the company through
a period of tremendous growthin the region here.
So, without further ado,welcome James from ESET.
Thanks, keith, great to be here.
Man, great to be here with you,awesome to have you here.
So I know, james, just to diveright into things, you come from
a little bit of anon-traditional background,
(02:01):
that's right, yeah, and what's aunique path that led you to
where you are?
Why don't you share witheveryone where you came from and
what led you to ESET?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Absolutely.
Yeah, long winding road forsure to get to this point.
Really grateful for the peoplethat helped me along the way.
I actually was a chef for 10years.
I worked in kitchens from allover Ontario and some fine
dining restaurants.
Some Worked in kitchens fromall over Ontario and some fine
dining restaurants some lessthan fine dining restaurants as
well in there.
(02:30):
And, yeah, I worked my way upand when 20, I guess it was 2014
, 2015, ish I just was fallingout of love with the industry.
The things that I had reallyloved about it was the
creativity, the ability tocreate art on a plate, which was
really fun.
And as I got more into thebusiness side of it as a head
chef scheduling, managing peopleand those types of things it
(02:53):
became, the love of the art ofit started to fade from me, and
it's a high impact job.
It's a very high impact job andit can be very rewarding, but
it can also be extremelystressful and at the time, I was
starting my life with my, mybeautiful partner, steph, and,
and I wanted to be at home more.
(03:13):
I wanted to spend more time athome and you work 75 hours a
week in a kitchen but you're notgetting you're working lawyer
hours, but you're not gettingpaid lawyer money.
I really wanted to get out ofthat and I got the opportunity
to do my.
I come from a long line ofsalespeople, so my dad was a
salesperson, my mom was asalesperson, my uncle was a
salesperson.
Both my older brothers aresalespeople and have been very
(03:35):
successful in it.
My aunt Pam, she really alwayspushed me hey, you should get
into sales, you should get intosales, go get into sales.
You got.
You got the ability to talk topeople and get to know people.
You should go leverage that.
And so I listened to her.
Finally, I listened to her andgot the opportunity to work for
a company that sold CAD,software engineering firms, 3d
(03:57):
printers and those types ofthings, and it was.
It was a great opportunity andI'm really grateful for the to
the people there that were ableto give me that leg up.
And it's funny enough, when ESETcame knocking at the time I was
really spreading my wings insales.
I'd moved up really quicklyfrom inside sales to account
management and had really done areally good job and I was
(04:19):
really starting to settle in andsettle in and feel it and I
told them when I first took the,when I first took the call, I
said I'm not super interestedright now.
I really want to stay where I'mat.
I'm just starting to grow andfeel some type of success.
I missed opportunity is onethat you don't see it at all.
So I went in, I took theinterview and instantly I knew
(04:39):
this was a place I wanted to bethe people, the atmosphere I
wanted to work there, be a partof that culture, and it's been
very rewarding ever since, forsure.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
That's amazing.
So you went from thehigh-pressure world of a kitchen
into the high-pressure world ofcybersecurity.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, it definitely is a high-pressure world and
cybersecurity is definitely onthe top of mind right now, and
it's a very competitive andgrowing industry.
But it's also very rewarding, Ithink, when you work with
businesses and you're able tohelp them achieve their business
goals and protect what they'vebuilt, I think it's a very
rewarding aspect of it.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
So, from a lot of the conversations that you're in,
how does security fit intohelping them achieve those
business goals specifically?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, that's a great question, I think, when it comes
to security, I think when Ieven when I first started here
so I've been at ESET for I'm inmy seventh year now when I first
started, even then,cybersecurity was very commodity
based.
It was good protection, lowprice.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Let's check the box Exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Let's check the box and let's move on.
And while that still issometimes people's lens on
cybersecurity, I think it'sreally developed into a part
that really dictates how thebusiness moves forward.
I think that in order to havegood outcomes on your business
(06:07):
goals, you need to leveragetechnology right.
You need to be having the bestin class in different pieces of
technology that allow yourworkforce to either collaborate
better or to sell moreeffectively or develop products
more effectively and, at the endof the day, achieve those
business outcomes Effectively,or develop products more
effectively and, at the end ofthe day, achieve those business
outcomes.
And you need to have a platformthat's going to be able to
(06:27):
protect from outside attacks andsometimes inside threats,
without stopping that creativity, stopping the use of those
tools and our industry, as Iknow you're aware, we have zero
trust, that's all great.
Zero trust is great to have, butif you're going to pay a
million dollars for all theseapplications that are there to
(06:50):
create faster to market roadsand create better communication
within the environment, and thenyou put a zero trust layer over
top of that, you might as wellgo back to pen and paper, right?
So that's, I think, where wefit in there is making sure that
businesses can do what theyneed to do without stopping the
flow of creativity andproductivity.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
And I love that outlook because I think there's
so many people in the securityindustry that focus so much on
the fear and if you don't buythese things, then X, y and Z
will happen.
But I think that there's thisother narrative and security
that is.
Here's the reason why you cando these things.
Here's the reason why you canwork from the lake, and here's
the reason you can collaborateon these documents with other
(07:34):
people and that approach issuper refreshing in terms of not
going to just bang in the drumof this super intense fear.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
And I think fear-based selling is it's a
tactic.
It's a tactic.
And even if you're not tryingto sell, what is it?
Fud right.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Fear.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Uncertainty and Doubt right, even if you're not
trying to leverage that.
There is an underlying tone offear when it comes to
cybersecurity and cyber attacksand ransomware attacks, and I
think that we're on this kind ofpendulum right now where, hey,
we're really worried about itand it's going to slide back to.
I think, once and maybe I'lltake that back for a sec we're
(08:15):
on this pendulum where we'rereally worried about it, but
then, as companies get a morerobust security posture, they
get lulled into a full sense ofsecurity that nothing's going to
happen, and then the pendulumswings back the other way and
that's when ransomware, that'swhen attacks happen, and I think
that we just need to becognizant about it.
It's a real threat, it's agrowing threat.
(08:36):
As long as ransom is being paid, ransomware is going to exist.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Attacks are going to happen right, definitely, and so
you probably have a very uniqueperspective in talking to a
bunch of different businessleaders that are either have the
horror story of somethingterrible that's happened and
that's motivated to change, orthey're just really afraid of
this.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
The kind of boogeyman that exists out there, when you
think about the changes and thedifference.
Okay, you worked in the kitchen.
You're working 75 hours a week.
You're grinding away.
You move into sales andsecurity.
What does a day look like foryou as a sales rep at ESET?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
That's a great question, and I was actually
just talking to someone aboutthis last night, and it's very
no one day looks the same.
That's really what it lookslike is very similar to a
kitchen.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
No one day looks the same.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, maybe in a kitchen, you come in and you do
your prep, you cut up your miseen place, you get your station
ready to go, but that lunchservice, dinner service,
whatever it is, it's never goingto be the exact same.
The orders are always going tocome in differently.
How you cook things is alwaysgoing to happen differently.
Mistakes that happen thatcreate backlogs are always going
to be different, and mistakesthat happen that create backlogs
(09:46):
are always going to bedifferent.
And I think it's very similarto that.
I've got my activities, I needto do my outreach, my tasks, all
of those things, but it's avery different day-to-day
outlook.
Based on one day I might bedoing something like this with
you and later this afternoon Imight be going home and working
on an RFP for the next threeweeks.
So, it is very day to day.
I think at the base of it isthe thing that I at least look
(10:11):
forward to most in my day istalking with customers either
existing customers or maybepotential buyers and learning
about their business, learningabout what's important in their
environment, and I think that'sreally what's exciting about it
is getting to know differentcompanies, getting to know how
they leverage different tools,and even inside and outside of
(10:32):
cybersecurity.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That makes sense and I think as well.
With ESET too.
You have a very uniqueopportunity and it probably a
little bit of a challenge aswell, in the sense that ESET is
very large in Europe but stillreally emerging in Canada and
growing your foothold here quiterapidly.
But outside of sponsoring theCalgary Flames, which I'm a
personal fan of, how are youconnecting with folks?
(10:53):
How are you telling the ESETstory?
Is it mostly learning frompeople and just listening, or is
there a path that you're on togo and spread the word of ESET?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I think you know the the pathESET is, and maybe I'll do a
little talk about ESET, but alittle bit about our focus in
the world.
As you said, we're privatelyowned.
We're owned by the same guysthat wrote the original code all
the way back when, and thattechnology and that view on how
(11:22):
our technology needs to worktogether has never left us.
We are not a marketing company,we are a research and
development company.
That's how I view it, and that'show I talk to people about it
is there's lots of greatproducts out there and there's
the top players in the world andthey have great products and
there's nothing wrong with theirproducts.
They're just a marketing companyfirst, with a product after,
(11:45):
where I think ESET is're just amarketing company first, with a
product after, where I thinkESET is a research and
development company first, witha product after.
And I think that's our key tosuccess.
And it might be a slower uptickin terms of how many
conversations walk through thedoor, but the conversations we
do have are more impactful and Ithink really what it is the
best road to success with us iskey partnerships, key
(12:09):
relationships within thosepartnerships to allow us to get
more at bat, to tell our storyin a one-on-one environment,
because when we we have a greatstory to tell and I think we've
got a phenomenal technologybehind that as well and great
people that work within ESETfrom I was again.
I was saying this last night tosomeone there's not one person
(12:29):
at ESET that's not willing to gothe extra mile, kind of thing,
and I think that's what'simportant.
So I think, to answer yourquestion, it's about strong
partnerships with people thatare able to get us into the seat
to tell our story, because whenwe tell that story, we're very
successful.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
That's amazing, and I think that one of the things
that you also mentioned is justthe amount of energy that goes
into the marketing engine andsecurity.
The most recent stats that Isaw is that security in the next
year alone so 2025, projected$200 billion industry in just
the revenue side of it.
There are so many new playersemerging.
(13:06):
There's a ton of startups.
There is a lot of investmenthappening in this space.
If I'm a potential buyer, howdo I cut through that noise?
How do I even start to thinkabout evaluating new
technologies?
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Well, first you got to partnerwith Keith and deliver to him.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Thank, you for the plug.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
He'll walk you through the buying process.
No, I think really what it comesdown to is, like you said, it's
a very crowded space and Ithink, as some of the larger
leaders have proven, that theIPO method can work.
Security in my I'm going togive a shout out to my boy,
(13:49):
pedro, our solution architectfor Western Canada.
Great guy, very smart, veryknowledgeable, and what he
always talks about it issecurity is.
It's such a risk that it'salmost not something you want to
leverage an IPO for.
There are some companies thathave done that successfully, but
I don't think it's thatrepeatable.
I think that those are reallyunicorns within the environment
(14:10):
and I think that it's reallytough to, as you said, to weed
out the good from the bad, theokay from the phenomenal.
And I think really what it'sabout is is leveraging your IT
partners, leveraging people youtrust to help you guide you with
good decision-making that knowyour environment.
(14:32):
Not every cybersecurityplatform, even ESET included, is
going to be the best for everyenvironment, right and every
single need.
So I think it's aboutpartnering with people that
understand the overarching goalsof what you're trying to
achieve with cybersecurity andyour overarching environment.
What's in there, what's not inthere, what do you want to do
(14:55):
with it down the road and helpletting those people guide you a
little bit more.
I know that there are peoplethat I talk to every single day.
They're smarter than me aboutcybersecurity Right, and that's
their job, that's theirprofession.
My goal is to take what theytell me and hear what they're
telling me, and if ESET's theright fit for them, then I'm
(15:18):
going to tell them why I thinkit is the right fit.
And if it's not the right fit,I'm going to tell them hey, this
is what we do really good, thisis what we're not going to do
quite as good, and maybe there'sa happy medium in there.
So I think, again, to go backand fully answer your question,
I think it's leveraging and,again, I know I gave you the
plug, but it's true, you got toleverage people like yourself,
(15:39):
companies like yourself trustedit, partners that have your best
interest at heart.
There's a lot of people outthere that are there to make
money.
We're all here to make money.
Right, we all need to pay ourbills and pay our mortgages and
do whatever life goals that weall have.
But I think that there's ahappy ground there where you can
offer good, sound advice andstill complete your sales
(16:03):
mission and your sales goal, andI think those are the type of
companies that people need towork with.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
They have some of the genuine relationships and some
of the actual foundation behindthem.
Yeah, one of the things that Isee in a lot of the
conversations that we have isjust people struggling to get
that foundation and to get thatmapping in place, to even
understand how to get started insome of these evaluations.
Is there any words of advice orwords of wisdom that you have
in terms of understanding how toevaluate some of those
(16:30):
potential fits?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yeah, I think for me I always say this people like
doing business with people thatthey like, right they?
You are going to find peopleout there that you like, you're
drawn to, you want to have openand honest conversations with,
and I think when you do that andput that out there, the right
person will meet that in kindwhere you can tell if someone's
(16:55):
trying to take advantage of thatRight.
And I think that as a firstbasis, you need to find people
that you want to work with.
You want to pick up the phoneand call and say, hey, I've got
a problem, can we talk about it?
Right, just like you got yourbuddy at home.
If you're having somerelationship issue or life
problem or you're switching jobsor whatever you're looking for
(17:15):
general advice, you can go tothem and trust that what they're
going to say to you isnon-biased and is their true
opinion of the overall status ofwhat you're trying to achieve.
And I think likely like that,you need to find those people
and I think Calgary is a greatexample of that.
There are a ton of amazingpeople in IT space.
(17:37):
It's a close-knitted community.
It's a great community to be apart of.
In the IT space.
There's a lot of phenomenalresellers out there and there's
a lot of good people that workwithin those resellers.
So you know, trying differentresellers, finding one that fits
with you and sticking with them.
I think that's a reallyimportant thing.
(17:58):
I think, as we go back to what Ifirst said cybersecurity used
to be commodity based, right,and maybe hardware to a point
still, as commodity based,lowest price wins.
Zadell is Zadell.
It doesn't really matter, aslong as it's getting shipped on
time and it's coming, and that'sgreat.
But at the same time, if you'realways just shopping out every
single deal that you have,you're not going to build
(18:21):
relationship with someone andyou're not going to have a
trusted advisor and you mightoverlook someone that could be a
trusted advisor because they're5% more on your Lenovo purchase
, right, right, and if you hadmaybe just said hey, I really
like this person, I'm going togive them that deal versus
bringing it to someone that'sgot the deal read or whatever it
(18:41):
is, favorable discounts.
I think that you'll createbetter relationships.
I get it.
We all have budgets we need tostick to.
We all have our sales goals.
We all have our metrics we allhave.
You know everything that weneed to do, but I think that you
need to be able to build arapport with people to see if
you can really trust them, andthe only way you're going to do
(19:03):
that is by taking a chance withpeople.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Is that one of the biggest mistakes that you see
people make is that they're tooquick to shop their partners or
they're too quick to save animmediate dollar.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I think so.
I genuinely think so.
I think that people, peopleneed to hit their metrics.
It's always the most importantthe KPI or business goal or
whatever it could be.
But I think that when we dothat and we're always going to
the bottom of the barrel.
It's just like in personal lifeIf you could go to a trusted
(19:34):
mechanic who might be moreexpensive, but they're going to
take the time to explain it toyou.
They're going to talk aboutwhat you need.
I just had this experience.
Steph and I we got a.
We got this old, 20 year oldVolkswagen this summer,
convertible for the summer.
It was a great opportunity forus to get it and it's probably
spent more time in the shop thanit has on the road.
But the person that we went towe chose them not because of
(19:58):
pricing or anything like that,because they were committed to
us to getting this thing back onthe road and getting it back
where it needs to be, and havegiven us sound advice and
through that time, they've alsogiven us free services and free
parts and different things thathave definitely brought that
dollar spend back down to us.
But we also know that they'rein our corner when I want to
(20:20):
talk to him about something.
I can get that answer.
I know that his advice.
If he said to me tomorrow heyman, we're at a point where you
should just sell this thing, Iwould trust that, where there's
a lot of mechanics out therethat maybe would be like hey,
let's just keep fixing thisthing until until they come back
.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
It's profitable for them to keep fixing it Exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
And so I think that when you chase the dollars and
cents, you're missing out onopportunities to work with real
people that will a benefit fromyour relationship but also want
to do that in turn for you andhelp you benefit from that.
So I think when it comes to apurchase of software or hardware
(20:59):
or anything like that, yeah, wehave to hit our budgets, but
taking a chance with someonethat you have good rapport with,
that you trust, even if they're10% more, will net you more
value in the longterm than justshopping out every single deal
you do.
Because what ends up happeningis when that reseller, that it
(21:20):
partner, whatever it may be getsin front of you and they do all
this hard work to show youtheir value and all of the
things that they want to do foryou, and then you take that and
bring it somewhere else just tosave a couple bucks.
A they're probably not going towant to do that again for you
and you've burned that bridgeright and B that person that's
the bottom of the barrel.
(21:41):
Pricing may just be an ordertaker, may not be into
relationships, they just want tohit their quota and move on.
And I'm not saying that's alwaysthe case for sure.
But I think that when we allhave purchasing power, we all
have our limits and what we needto do.
But I think if it can fitwithin your goal and it's a good
(22:01):
partner that you trust, I thinkthat's where you should spend
your time and your money.
You'll get more out of thatrelationship.
You'll have someone that's morebought in on your business,
like for myself.
We've got some clients and theymay have an issue with something
else in their environment andwe spend time and we work with
them to get them where they needto be with their ESET
(22:22):
deployment or whatever it may bethat's causing some issues for
them.
Because, as we know, you knowit doesn't matter how good your
product is on the oddenvironment, it's going to cause
issues, it's going to haveproblems and you need to fix
those and I think if you addressthose things head on and you
create the relationships,they're more likely to return,
come back to you and at leastgive you an opportunity to
(22:42):
continue to win their businessback to you and at least give
you an opportunity to continueto win their business.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
So can you describe the customer experience and what
that customer journey lookslike for a customer as they're
engaging?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
with ESET?
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's agreat question.
So you know, let's just saythat that person.
They saw an ad on the CalgaryFlames, right, and they said, oh
, what's ESET?
And they go online and theylook at it.
Okay, yeah, cybersecurity,we're interested, we've got a
need for this.
I'm going to reach out.
Maybe a lead comes in.
The first thing we're going todo either my, my, my teammate
(23:12):
Pat, who, who is our awesomeinside sales rep she's just an
absolute champion.
I think what we're going to dois we're going to reach out to
you to set up a discovery call.
We always want to understandwhat's going on in the
environment and what the needsare A for you to learn a little
bit about us and B for us tolearn a little about you.
But C, maybe right there onthat call, we're going to know
(23:35):
we're not a right fit for you oryou're not a right fit for us.
Whatever that may be, we'regoing to have that discovery
call, learn about theenvironment.
We're going to then, from thatpoint, we always try to book a
technical demo.
It really depends if someone'shey, I haven't heard of ESET
before and I want to learn somemore about you guys first, we'll
do that.
We'll do an introductionsection, talk about what we do,
(23:57):
where we came from, what we grewup from, that technology
focused.
We're not looking after ourshareholders, we're looking
after our customers, and I thinkthat's something that they
really want to hear, and I thinkthat's important.
After that, we'll move into ademo, a demonstration.
Show them all the environment,everything that we can do for
(24:18):
them, and what we really try todo on those calls is well, it's
not a presentation, and I prettymuch always say this hey guys,
this isn't a presentation, thisis a conversation.
So jump in, ask questions thatpertain to you.
Hey, I don't need to see this,I already understand all that.
That's great.
I want to learn about this.
That's what we want to hearabout.
(24:38):
We want to show you andcustomize it for your
environment.
So we always say that open door, talk to us about what your
needs are and what you're moreinterested in diving deep on.
We were on a call yesterday andwe were talking about all these
different stuff and what wasreally important to them is how
they're going to install it.
How can we leverage GPO MSI?
What are we going to do?
Do I have to send this viaemail?
(24:59):
How am I going to install thiswith ease?
So that's what.
We spent 35 minutes on showingthem how they're going to get
this out to their environmentwithout breaking a sweat right,
and that was impactful for them.
So we want to spend some timeon that.
From there, we'll move into thePOC stage.
So we'll walk them through, getthem set up and have them trial
(25:21):
it out while working throughtouch points with them, and then
, obviously, if they're happywith the product, then we can
get into the negotiations andall that good stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Amazing.
What are some of the bigmistakes that you see customers
make that in going through thisprocess, you'll be like I wish
you were doing somethingdifferently.
I wish you'd approach this inanother way.
Is there common mistakes orpitfalls customers commonly
making?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I think this actually goes back to a point I was
talking about earlier, which isevery day I'm in a conversation
with people that are smarterthan me in cybersecurity.
That doesn't mean I don't haveanything to offer them as well.
I think we need to open up ourminds and talk about things in a
holistic way, to learn fromeach other.
(26:05):
I always say it just becauseI've been in this job for seven
years.
I'm not an expert at it.
I can always learn.
I can learn from someone aheadof me.
I can learn from someone belowme, right?
There is no, there is no waythat we can't all learn from
each other, and I think that athing that we see a lot of is
customers making assumptions onwhat they think we can
(26:27):
accomplish or what they need toaccomplish their goals, when
there's other ways to go aroundit, and I think that's a big
mistake in all facets of life,we need to learn from each other
, and I think that just becausesomeone's a tenured expert
doesn't mean I want to learnfrom them, but it doesn't mean I
don't have anything that I canoffer them as well.
So I think letting people saywhat they need to say, talk
(26:50):
about the things that they thinkare important, and then hearing
that and giving that feedbackAmazing.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So I'm not asking you to give away any trade secrets,
but if I'm entering a deal ornegotiation with with you, with
ESET, maybe even a differentsecurity vendor.
Yeah, what's some tips ifyou're sitting on the other side
of the table?
For them to get the most out ofthat discussion, out of that
negotiation and out of that.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I'm really happy you said it.
I think people have thetendency Maybe I'll take that
back for a second.
People view sales tendency.
Maybe I'll take that back for asecond.
People view salespeople.
Yeah, hey, they're just tryingto earn a quick buck, which we
are.
We're trying to earn money.
Right and there's a lot ofpeople out there that will try
to take advantage of thatdynamic, for sure, but I think,
(27:36):
by and large, most people aregood people.
I like to think that at least,and I think people tend to be a
little bit cagey about whattheir true goals are, their true
needs are what they're reallyafter, and when they do that,
when they don't open the kimonoas they say.
I think it's really hard to geta true partnership.
I think it's really hard forsalespeople or sales
(27:59):
organizations or cybersecuritywhatever it may be, to engage in
a real way that will actuallybenefit them.
I liken it to personalrelationships.
If I'm always surface levelwith someone that's trying to
get deep with me, they're nevergoing to truly get to know me,
I'm never going to truly showthem who I really am and our
relationships never going toflourish.
(28:21):
If we open up to each other andtalk about real things and real
goals and real aspirations,we're going to grow a
relationship that's tangible.
And I think that comes intoselling.
If you want to get more out ofyour purchases, you need to get
buy-in from the companies you'retrying to buy from.
If you get buy-in there actuallyto go back to kitchens- I used
(28:41):
to always say hey, be friendswith the people that you're
working with the line cook nextto you, the person here because
you're more likely, or they'remore likely, to go the extra
mile for someone that extra 10%discount for you or whatever it
is or extend the deal or extenda trial or free licensing for a
(29:09):
month while you roll outwhatever that may be, if they
really truly know what yourgoals are and are really
connected to you.
So I think that a lot of buyerstend to be cagey with their
goals because they're afraid ofmaybe getting h counted by
salespeople nonstop or beingpushed into a decision they
don't want to make, or theythink that's how they're going
(29:30):
to get the most out of therelationship, by holding all
their cards close to the chestand then just saying, hey, I
need this price.
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
So do you think that people generally, when you're,
when someone reaches out to youor you're starting an engagement
with a customer, do you thinkthat they generally understand
the security landscape well?
Or how much education do youhave to take on or does your
team have to take on when you'regetting started with customers?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah.
So I think in cybersecuritythere's really there's like the
three bands.
There's the guys that are supereducated on cybersecurity
they're they've been, maybe theywork in a sock, maybe they're
high level security people andthey really understand all
facets of it and they're highlyeducated.
And then there's maybe thesmall business owner that is
(30:18):
doing everything for theircompany and doesn't know much
about it and needs a lot ofcoaching, needs a lot of
education.
They've been told by theircyber insurance provider they
need to have XYZ and they don'tknow what XYZ does or what it's
going to benefit or how muchit's going to cost or how to
even leverage a tool like that.
(30:38):
So I think on that end of thespectrum, it's a great deal of
handholding, it's a great dealof educationholding, it's a
great deal of education thatneeds to go into it.
And then I think the middlecamp of it all would be the IT
manager.
That is a jack of all trades,right, and they're doing
everything.
And we see that a lot incompanies right, a lot of
(30:59):
businesses is not going to be arevenue generating segment of
their business.
It's going to be a loss leader.
They're investing into it,they're spending a lot of it,
but it's not like a sales forceor their main product or
anything like that, and I thinkthose people also need a lot of
not hand holding, but they needa better.
(31:19):
There is an educational gapthere for what cybersecurity can
do for them, why it's importantfor them and why it shouldn't
just be glazed over on.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Are you seeing a change in the type of buyers
that you're working with, If Ithink about how technology is
starting to really spread acrossorganizations?
It's no longer the CIO ordirector of IT or the jack of
all trades.
IT manager sitting in a darkroom coding away.
These are people that are atthe forefront of their business.
They're enabling and we'reseeing interest from across all
(31:54):
levels of leadership in theorganization around how IT will
enable and drive their business.
Are you seeing securitystarting to enter that
conversation on the periphery oris security still stuck with
the IT teams?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I think it goes back to what I was saying at the
start is people are either veryunder, maybe not understanding
of what the true threat is outthere, but they're very worried
about it.
And then there's the otherpeople that think we're too
small or we've never had anissue, or those, and I think
(32:29):
that it's really two camps ofpeople.
It's really two camps of people.
I do agree with you, though it'snot.
It's no longer more.
I would say it's growing to nolonger be just the IT guy, just
the manager, just the sysadmin,just whatever that may be making
these decisions in a silo.
They need to get buy-in fromthe presidents, the CEOs, the
(32:52):
VPs of the organization thatthey answer to.
Particularly in largerbusinesses, you definitely see
the business leaders being moreinvolved in the purchasing than
just the security team or the ITteam, and I think that's
important.
I think it's important for themto know that what's going on,
(33:14):
and I spend a lot of time in myrole with partners trying to
educate business leaders on what, not again creating fear.
But hey, the threat is outthere, and in Canada in
particular, we've seen a massivespike in ransomware in SMB
right, and I think that's causedby a few different things and
(33:36):
we could definitely get intothat if you want.
But I think that a lot of peoplein that space maybe in the sub
500 seats, sub 500 employee typespace thinking it's not going
to happen to us.
We're too small, right, butthese guys are the bad actors.
They're sophisticated, they aredoing this as a full-time job.
(33:58):
When they take a look into yourenvironment, they're not going
to.
If you're doing $2 million inbusiness a year, they're not
going to say give us $2 million.
They're going to say give us$100,000, give us 50 K, whatever
it is that they know you canpay and to get the most out of
that.
And I think that those peopleneed the most education, those
groups of clients, they need themost education to what's
(34:22):
happening and they need the mosthelp with decision-making.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
That makes sense when you think about and you
mentioned fear and you mentionedthis Lumion threat that exists.
How much of purchase decisionsthat you see are based on that
fear and, if not, what are theorganizations trying to solve
for when they're purchasing aproduct, like you said?
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, oh well, that's a great question.
I think there's a lot of layersto that question, I think I
think generally, when it'sfear-based purchases, it is it's
because something's happened.
There's already someone inthere, there's already something
that's gone on and we'rehitting the reaction button.
(35:05):
I don't think there's a lot ofpurchases that are made out of
unknowledgeable fear.
So what I mean by that isthere's the fear that
something's already happened.
We know something's happenedand we need to react to it
immediately.
And then there's people thatare educated on what could
potentially happen and they'remaking decisions based on that.
(35:27):
And I wouldn't necessarily callthat fear.
I would call that being smart.
I would say, hey, we need toprotect our assets and this is
our assets.
And then there's, I think, thepeople that are uneducated on
what could potentially happenand they don't have enough fear.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
If I'm being completely frank, and I feel
like in this space specifically,the more people know, the more
nervous they get, and I thinkthat it's the idea that
ignorance is blessed a tiny bit,especially with security.
But I think it's getting harderand harder to hide under a rock
.
I agree On that front.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, I totally agree With one of our partners here,
our local partners really greatgroup of people.
They're very technology forward.
They run an MS, local MSPmanaged service provider.
For those that don't know, justabout educating them on the
(36:21):
history of ransomware, cyberattacks, where it's coming from
and why it is growing so rapidlyin Canada.
And I think that educationwasn't about let's all be scared
that the boogeyman in Russia isgoing to come over here and
grab all of our things, but it'smore so that I think we need to
(36:43):
educate people so theyunderstand what the true threat
is, and I think when they'reeducated on that, they're going
to make better businessdecisions on how to protect
themselves against these threatactors and against these things.
Mgm grand millions of dollarsor the pipeline a couple summers
(37:09):
ago that drove up the cost ofgas across North America yeah,
those are massive ransomwareattacks.
But now we're dealing withsomething called ransomware as a
service.
Just like software as a service.
You can buy ransomware as aservice and you can go in.
If you do that, if you and Iwere, hey, let's move to
wherever Bora, wherever we cango that doesn't have extradition
treaty and wanted to do this,we're not going to have
(37:30):
protection from a localgovernment.
We're not state sponsors,actors, so we need to go after
small businesses that if westeal 50K from them the RCMP and
the FBI they don't have time todeal with that.
It's like if I go to a store,which I would never do- it's
just full disclosure, yeah, fulldisclosure.
This is completely hypothetical.
And I was to steal a t-shirt.
(37:52):
No one's going to investigatethat.
If it's not obvious that I didthat, no one's investigating
that.
Now, if I go and I'm gone in 60seconds with a crew of 100
people and I steal 500 cars inCalgary in the next night, we're
going to have cops coming in.
They're going to spend money toget that assets back and bring
(38:12):
us to justice.
And I think it's a very similarthing in cybersecurity If
you're under the radar andyou're doing these 5K, 10k, 50k
ransomwares 50 times a day,you're underneath the radar, and
all of the big, large breachesthat we've actually brought back
the Bitcoin or the crypto, theShiba Inu, whatever it is back
(38:35):
from the other side, it's allbeen these massive million
dollar payouts and that's whatgets the attention.
So I think that is a little bitof what's going on here and I
think that is something thatpeople need to be educated on.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Perfect.
So I'm going to switch gears atiny bit.
Yeah, I want to talk about theideal customer for yourself, for
ESET.
So if you were to describe whata good customer for ESET would
be, how would you describe thatbusiness?
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, every customer.
Now, I think really the idealcustomer, by our company
standards for sure, would be the1,000 seat customer to the 100
seat customer, and I think thereason for that personally, is
everyone's knocking at the largeguy's door and it's not that's
not important to go after.
We all need to go after that.
(39:22):
And it's not that's notimportant to go after.
We all need to go after that.
And our business model is goodfor large organizations.
We support in Europe largebanks.
We support tons of massiveorganizations in Europe and
across North America as well.
But I think we can be moreimpactful via a relationship and
how we handle our business atESET.
(39:43):
We're very relationship-basedsellers across the board and I
think that we can have a better,more longstanding relationship
with a smaller customer thatwe're going to be able to really
truly impact their business andwe're not one of many, we're
one of one and we can reallyhelp them grow and I think
that's the ideal customer for us.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
If you were to coach this ideal customer before they
engage with you?
What is one thing you wish theyknew before they?
They started that conversation.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
What their budget was .
Okay, no, I say that in jest,but I really also believe that
too, I think.
I think, if you're, you need toget the right security that
meets your goals and meets yourbudget, and I think, a lot of
time.
There's a lot of good securityvendors out there that are
extremely expensive, and there'sa lot of good ones that are are
(40:34):
maybe a little bit lower cost,and I think that if you want to
be buying a Ferrari, you got tohave the budget Ferrari, and I
think that that's a reallyimportant piece.
Buying a Ferrari, you got tohave the budget Ferrari, and I
think that that's a reallyimportant piece.
The other thing I think isreally important is be realistic
with what you can handle.
We see a lot of a couple ofyears ago, cyber insurance
across North America reallymandated that everyone has an
(40:56):
EDR or an XDR, an MDR, and Ithink that is that was great for
them to mandate that.
But the small shop with one ITperson, they can't manage an EDR
successfully.
They can't manage those toolsproperly because they don't have
the manpower behind it.
So when you are going andyou're going to go buy an EDR,
(41:19):
you need to be realistic.
Can I manage this?
Can I handle the work that'sgoing to come behind this, or do
I need to outsource that?
Do I need an MDR?
Do I need a managed serviceprovider?
What does that look like?
So, I think, being realistic inwhat you want and you actually
have time to manage.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
And so that's something we haven't covered,
but it is a real challenge inthe industry, where I'm sure you
see it as well, where there'slots of organizations that
they'll go out and they'll spendincredible amounts of money on
different software platforms andtools and strategies in order
to solve various specificproblems, but then really
struggle with how do theyimplement it, how do they govern
it, how do they manage itafterwards.
(41:58):
What advice would you have fororganizations as they're trying
to consolidate or make sense ofall of these tools and
investments that they've alreadymade, that they can't quite
turn on?
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah, I think I'll give you a great example.
When I used to sell CADsoftware there are some really
robust tools within CAD softwareand I had one conversation
during a cold call.
And you're selling to engineersand the engineer was sitting
there and I was saying, hey,this is what we could accomplish
with this software.
And you know what he said to me.
He said you know what?
That's great, but then whatwould I do?
(42:34):
My boss might want to cut thisrole.
If I don't, if I'm not doingthis manually, maybe I don't
have a job Right, and I thinkthat when it comes to it, maybe
there's a little bit of thatthere as well.
If I'm not doing thispersonally, I'm not protecting
my role here, which I don'tthink is fair.
I think maybe it's it's healthyto be a little skeptical
sometimes, but I don't thinkthat's fair, because how
(42:55):
expansive it is, don't be afraidto ask for help.
Don't be afraid to tell yourbusiness leader I can't manage
this all by myself and there aregaps.
I'm working till nine o'clockevery single night and that's
going to lead to burnout.
And if you are just doing thebare minimum across everything,
(43:16):
there's going to be massive gaps.
So I think asking for help,letting your business leaders
know where they're failing youin terms of budget, in terms of
manpower, and that there areways to outsource and get help
outside of the organization.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Perfect.
So this is a big moment now.
So, considering that everythingwe've talked about, what would
be the top reason for someone toconnect with ESET to solve some
of these challenges, this isthe big pitch moment, the big
pitch moment.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I think.
If you're looking for a companythat is focused on customer
engagement, having a truerelationship where we can
there's give and take and we cangive you sound advice and learn
from you and really try tounderstand your business needs
and make sure we're a good fitfor your business, I think
(44:08):
that's the type of partnershipthat we are looking for and that
people that are approaching usshould be looking for.
We are we lovingly joke aboutthis to the nerds right.
If you're looking for someonethat is a world leader in
research and development and notjust pushing our own business
forward but cybersecurity as awhole forward, we are that
(44:30):
company for you.
We have an amazing serviceoffering with an amazing service
team behind that that have beendoing this for years and years.
Internally, for example, manageddetection response MDR very hot
right now.
That's something we've beendoing for ourselves very
successfully for time andbecause of that, we're going to
(44:51):
be a little bit lower cost onwhat the service actually is,
because we're not building itfrom scratch to offer it to
customers.
We already had it in-house andyou're going to gain access to
our researchers, to the peoplethat are actually doing the
threat hunting and doing thosethings on your environment.
So if you're looking for acompany that really understands
(45:12):
cybersecurity from a holisticview, it does more to educate
and work within governments andother entities to offer how to
push cybersecurity forwardacross the globe, we are that
company for you?
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Amazing.
And if someone really lovedwhat they heard here today,
what's the best way for them toget in touch with?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
you.
Yeah, you can reach out onLinkedIn, james Bracken.
B-r-a-c-k-e-n.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
And.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
I also have my email jamesbracken, at esetcom.
I'm happy to chat with anyonethat wants to learn a little bit
more or just wants to discusssomething with me, whether it's
about ESET or just cybersecurityon the whole.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Amazing.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
This was a blast, absolutely, man.
It was great being here, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
I love it Great.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Thank you, man.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Thanks so much.
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