May 13, 2025 • 44 mins
In this first episode of Shared Ground (www.shared-ground.com), Allan sits down with Sean and Nina to explore the roots of the project and the personal stories that brought it to life.
Together, we talk through the fires that changed everything for Sean and Nina's family—what it felt like, what was lost, and why those experiences pushed Sean to co-create this podcast.
Stream the episode here, or follow on your favorite streaming service (Apple Podcasts, Spotify, etc).
This isn’t just a recounting of disaster. It’s a conversation about community, resilience, and the urgency of making meaning from what we’ve lived through. It’s the foundation of where we’re headed, starting from an unprecedented event in LA and taking us through the kindness and generosity encountered in the months following the events.
In all these episodes we'll talk through how individuals can prepare to grapple with high pressure situations, ideally finding ways to support themselves and from their their communities.
Shared Ground is produced by Sean Knierim and Allan Marks. Thanks to Cory Grabow, Kara Poltor, Corey Walles (from The Recording Studio) for your support in launching this effort.
For more stories of resilience & rebuilding, kindness & generosity: visit shared-ground.com and subscribe to Sean's substack. We invite you to share your own stories of resilience at the Shared Ground website - whether in response to the January fires in LA or other situations.
Follow us at seanknierim.substack.com, Instagram, or wherever you listen to podcasts (Apple Podcasts, Spotify, etc).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Allan Marks (00:00):
This is Share Ground, a podcast about
resilience and community.
I'm Allan Marks and I'm SeanKnierim.
Thanks so much for joining usToday.
Today's a little different frommost weeks, most likely, in
that I think I'm more of beinginterviewed than being the host,
so I'm going to throw it backover to Alan.
Good, I'm going to throw backsome good questions for you in a
minute, but we have a guesttoday who's very special.
(00:21):
Today, Nina Knierim have aguest today who's very special
today, Nina Knierim is here.
Sean, would you like tointroduce Nina for us?
Yeah, so we're starting todaytalking with me and with my wife
of 24 years together for longerthan that.
So really delighted you're hereto join us.
Thanks, Nina.
Nina Knierim (00:36):
Thanks for asking me.
Allan Marks (00:38):
So Shared Ground is a podcast that's looking at
resilience, it's looking at grit, it's looking at community and
things that help communities tobecome stronger, and a lot of
what happens.
Sometimes the communitiesrequire strong governance,
strong leadership, but sometimesit comes from the bottom.
It comes from the people on theground who are going through
things, and in Los Angeles weare going through things.
(00:59):
We just had fires in Januarythat caused over 150,000 people
to have to evacuate.
The fires destroyed 17,000 ormore structures, including 6,000
or more homes in the PacificPalisades and even more homes in
the Eaton Canyon fire in thecommunity of Altadena.
These are not just numbers,these are real people, and with
(01:20):
us today are two people who havelost their home in the
Palisades fire, and you and yourfamily, I think, typify what it
means to be resilient.
But I don't want to just, youknow, jump to that.
I mean, what you went throughwas harrowing and it's a real
loss.
So diving right in, Sean, whyis it important for you to share
this story?
Sean Knierim (01:39):
So I'd say, in addition to how you described
resilience at the top, somethingthat's really struck me over
the last few months is theimportance of kindness,
generosity, that expectation ofreciprocity, people just showing
up for each other in thatcommunity.
And while you said bottom up, Ithink, and also think of bottom
.
I'm thinking in terms of, likethe foundation of the kind of
(02:00):
resilience we need in oursociety.
Resilience we need in oursociety.
Even talking about this helpsme put in a buffer for the
emotions that are still here,like right now.
I feel tears behind my eyes andI've been talking about this
thing for months.
So, yeah, we lost our home.
We are right now in the processof like stabilizing, but not
(02:20):
yet stable is what I've beensaying.
But really blessed to be hereto have a chance to talk about
this.
Allan Marks (02:28):
Nina, why are you willing to share your story
today?
Nina Knierim (02:32):
Well, first of all , thank you so much for having
me in this inaugural podcastthat you all are starting.
I think it's really importantto get this kind of messaging
out.
I've been fortunate to be ableto do a little bit of
storytelling myself and when Istarted thinking that, hey, is
this too much?
Am I going out and doing toomuch speaking about this
(02:53):
particular topic?
But I don't think I am and,similar to what Sean shared,
it's very, very therapeutic.
I find I am reinvigorated, Ifeel more gratitude and less
loss when I have an opportunityto speak like this and just
really hone in on the subjectwithout external sort of
(03:18):
disruptions and just, you know,be able to talk about it.
Allan Marks (03:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, just taking a moment tospeak makes us process, and I
think you're right, sean, whenyou mentioned you were
stabilizing, but not stable yet,I think.
With respect to grief and loss,I remember a very wise person
once telling me we don't getaround it.
We don't get over it, we getthrough it.
Sean Knierim (03:40):
And, what's interesting, so many people are.
I feel like people are namingthe emotions that they're
expecting us to go through andmany times like I've heard grief
over and over again and it'slike you're going to see anger
and you're going to see all ofthese different emotions that
are part of the human.
You know, panoply of what wefeel coming out of these things.
I can't recognize or identifywhat the emotion is, or I can't.
(04:04):
Maybe it's because many of theemotions are coming through
simultaneously.
I can talk more about that in abit and in fact we're going to
have someone in a few weeks totalk with us about what he's
recognized here, but I don'tknow that it feels like grief
all the time for me.
Nina Knierim (04:25):
Nina, are you able to recognize what you're
feeling on a moment-by-momentbasis?
Right now I am trying toidentify, at least not trying to
identify exactly or nameexactly what emotion I'm feeling
, but where is it coming from?
Because often I'm finding itcoming out in not the right
environment, not the rightsituation.
Both of us are workingfull-time, you know.
So we have the stresses of jobs, full-time jobs, and we also
(04:49):
have two teenage children.
So, you know, life is continued.
Sean Knierim (04:53):
One teenage child.
Nina Knierim (04:54):
Well, right, I keep saying my son is 20 now but
he's still a student, and so we, when I feel those emotions
kind of come up, I do try toidentify where is it coming from
?
Is it really coming fromwhatever's happening in the
situation now, or is itsomething deeper?
And if it's something deeper, Ido give myself grace.
(05:14):
I'll walk away for a secondkind of breathe and come back to
it, because I don't want to beforced to let something out
there that doesn't really belongin that context.
So it's.
It's not easy, you know.
Emotions, mental health,everything that we hold dear to
(05:34):
us because it it affectseverything that we do, you know
has been fractured, it has beenbruised and battered.
So it's okay to have thosetimes when you feel not so
settled and not so in charge ofthe thoughts going through your
(05:55):
head and giving yourself grace,my self-grace, trying to get my
spouse grace whenever we havedisagreements.
But that's what I try to doanyway, yeah.
Allan Marks (06:08):
So let me come back to the kids for a second.
Yeah, so at the moment thefires they break out and they
became with the high winds.
We had the very dry soil, thevery dry conditions.
This was an urban fire thathappened to be ignited in an
adjacent wildland.
I don't ever like the termwildfire, really, because of the
(06:28):
way the fire behaved and theway people were impacted, but
when that happened, obviouslyyou know you're not just
thinking of yourself or eachother.
You're also thinking of yourkids and your family.
What did you do?
What happened?
What was that experience likewhen you knew you had to
evacuate?
Nina Knierim (06:47):
was that experience like when you knew
you had to evacuate?
So, uh, fortunately I do I didhave some foresight into what
the weather conditions were, uh,the dangerous, um, you know,
impact that a wildfire wouldhave or spark anywhere in the
city, anywhere in the County.
Really, um, and anothermultiple counties were also
feeling the effects of thosehigh winds and very dry uh, you
know, overnight humidity levelsand things like that that
contribute to the wildfire thatdid happen in both the Eden Fire
(07:13):
and Palisades Fire.
And I would say that because wehad more information, meaning I
did have an app on my phonethat's widely used within, you
know, wildfire mitigation andwildfire preparedness.
Sean Knierim (07:31):
What app is that?
Nina Knierim (07:32):
It's called sorry.
Sean Knierim (07:37):
I don't know, I don't have it on my phone I just
lost it.
Nina Knierim (07:40):
Sorry.
Allan Marks (07:41):
We'll find it.
Nina Knierim (07:42):
Watch duty.
Allan Marks (07:43):
Okay, watch duty.
So actually I downloaded watchduty that day because of the
fire.
Sorry, we'll find it WatchDuty.
Okay, WatchDuty.
So actually I downloadedWatchDuty that day because of
the fire.
Sorry, I'm not sure the numberis right.
Watchduty is an app that isextraordinarily timely and
precise, right as far asfiguring out fire risk, but also
fires that are active andevacuations and things that are
associated with it, so I want tocontinue on that 600,000, I
(08:05):
think downloads of that justthat week yeah.
Nina Knierim (08:08):
Yeah, so I have been using that app for three
years now, so I'm very familiarwith it.
Allan Marks (08:15):
You're OG yes.
Nina Knierim (08:16):
It's been upgraded several times.
It is run by a nonprofit, whichI'm hoping you know something
happens there where they get alot of funding to continue to
develop that tool because it'snecessary.
And if our own you know, firstresponders and organizational
local government, state, federalgovernment don't have warning
(08:37):
systems in place that are timely, accurate and go off when they
should, having that type ofinformation on your phone will
help you and an individual incommunities be more prepared.
So, because we were moreprepared, the idea that a
wildfire was coming and it wascoming towards us fast put all
(08:58):
of us into action quickly and wedid know what to do.
We did know what to take and wedid know what to do.
We did know what to take.
However, it did not replacesome of the other after the
(09:32):
other until you reach safety.
And I think, because we hadsome of those tools, it wasn't
as bad of an experience as weleft, but it was still
traumatizing.
Sean Knierim (09:45):
And a few nights before, on the first day of the
year, overnight some fireworkswent off in almost the same spot
that the fire on the seventhbroke out, and Nina woke us up
in the middle of the night,having seen the alert, and we
got to go through and preparethe cars and get ready.
We saw the airplanes puttingout the fires, but we were
(10:05):
packed and ready to go and hadto go through it.
Thankfully, Nina.
I mean with what you do for aliving, I mean she's.
Allan Marks (10:13):
We should pause and say what you do for a living.
Nina Knierim (10:18):
I think it's pretty relevant to this.
Nina, what do you do for aliving?
What do I do for a living?
So yes, and I will preface itwith the irony is not lost on me
or anybody that I work with.
I am a climate and disasterresilience professional, which
means that I not only study theimpacts of climate change with
regards to extreme weather, butI also help communities, local
(10:40):
government and countiesthroughout the state of
California prepare for thoseinevitabilities.
And so when I say we wereprepared, I mean we were
prepared.
And we were not only preparedfor a wildfire, we were prepared
for a flood, we were preparedfor an earthquake, we were
prepared for any other type of,you know, extreme or
(11:00):
catastrophic event that couldcome our way, extreme or
catastrophic event that couldcome our way.
So when I say you know havingprepared for a wildfire, when
you prepare for one type ofdisaster, you're preparing for
all of them.
Sure, there are things that youwould want to have depending,
but you really only have to doit once and then sort of circle
back to it, you know, every sixmonths to make sure your
(11:21):
supplies and things are together.
Allan Marks (11:23):
Let me ask you both a question, though, about that,
because, from your work at Coreand your experience, you had
your go bag.
Yes, right, but what's in theemotional go bag?
Not the physical one, butwhat's in the emotional go bag
that people should pack andobviously different people have
different personalities andrespond very differently to a
(11:45):
difficult situation like thatbut what's what's in the
emotional toolkit that thatwould be helpful or that you
wish you'd have had in youremotional go-bag?
Sean Knierim (11:53):
so I think what's interesting here not having gone
through an experience like thisbefore, I wasn't sure how I
would respond in this type of acrisis.
I mean, our family's gonethrough some challenging things.
We've been together for goingon almost 30 years now, like so
we've seen some times, but we'venot gone through a hundred mile
an hour wind whipping a fire atour house.
(12:14):
So it was interesting to seehow each of the four of us
responded in that moment, anddifferent of us have had
different preparations for thesethings.
Um, myself, I was able to seelike parallel lines, or maybe
stochastic multiple parallellines going on of.
I knew what the go bag was.
(12:34):
It was this satchel, right, andI knew what needed to go in the
car.
Interestingly, the go bag, whenI had a little extra time, was
not packed the suitcases.
It wasn't packed other stuff.
I got out all of the stuff thatwas in the go bag when I had a
little extra time was not packedthe suitcases.
It wasn't packed other stuff.
I got out all of the stuff thatwas in the go bag and at the
same time that I was gettingthinking through, like how to
get the kids out of the house,what Nina was doing with your
(12:56):
core shirt on going around andmaking sure our neighbors were
okay as we were trying to packyour stuff in cars.
I was also still like Ifinished a Zoom meeting while
everyone started packing thecars.
I was also still like Ifinished a zoom meeting while
everyone started packing thecars.
The hello fresh, hello fresh,the, the prepared box meal guy.
I was the last one to leave thehouse.
The hello fresh guy shows up asI'm watching the fires come
(13:20):
down towards the house.
I stop, he hands me the box, Ipoint to the fires and this
gentleman goes.
I get paid by the box todeliver, which is one of the
first moments that actually ledto this podcast happening is
thinking about what's theexperience of everyone around?
I took the box and I could havegone and packed a suitcase.
I could have taken more stuffoff the walls.
I could have done all kinds ofthings.
(13:40):
My son brought no souvenirs outof his room.
I could have saved the cubsticket when they won the world
series.
I put the box not only in thekitchen, I opened it and put all
of the perishables away becauseI didn't want nina to be upset
if we wasted food and came backlater that night.
So I was in normal mode andrespond to disaster mode
(14:01):
simultaneously, but almost in adisassociated way and there's
two different songs.
And not being aware of it.
Nina Knierim (14:16):
I will say almost the exact same thing happened
and I didn't recognize it untilyou were just talking about it
just now, the sort of likecontinuing to sort of see
everyday life happening aroundyou while this you know
catastrophic wildfire is comingdown the hill.
Because of my training and whatI've seen and I've visited burn
scars I've worked withlong-term recovery groups in
wildfire areas in NorthernCalifornia and Southern
(14:38):
California.
So when I was going around tothe neighbors Sean mentioned
that because I got to a pointwhere I was like, okay, I've got
at least 10, 15 minutes now Icannot live with myself if I
don't at least knock on myneighbor's door, because she was
a homebound woman in her 80s,blind, couldn't walk, couldn't
(14:59):
reach any of her relatives, andso I was really concerned about
her.
So she was my first person toknock on the door Then and she
got out.
And she got out.
Yes, thanks.
Yes, of course she got out.
Sean Knierim (15:12):
Don't leave us in suspense on that, Don't, don't?
No Thanks to her nephew whodrove up.
Nina Knierim (15:15):
No, no, it wasn't.
It wasn't.
It was our other neighbor,don't worry.
Our other neighbor, our otherneighbor helped.
So neighbors helping neighborsis really what I want to say
there, because, as we're allseeing this fire coming down the
hill, people are helping eachother.
And I was going around and, asthis was happening, before the
emergency orders came evacuationorders people were going about
(15:38):
their daily lives, similar towhat Sean said.
Some of them hadn't even seenthe smoke or the fire because
they're you know, they're intheir house, they're doing
homeschool, they've got theirdog, their baby or the nanny's
probably taking care of the kids.
So there was a lot of thingsgoing on for this interruption
to happen, and my job isoutreach, community education.
(15:59):
Like I said, I could not haveleft that community without
stopping to knock on everybody'sdoor before we left, and then,
on my way out, I continued tojump out of my car and, with my
core hat and my T-shirt on, Ijust put it over my pajama shirt
and said I am a trainedprofessional.
Please listen to me.
I know you haven't received anevacuation order, but you have
(16:20):
about 30 minutes before thatfire is on your doorstep.
So please, please, get yourstuff together, get your family
and I gave them the things Getyour important papers, grab some
cash, you know, make sureyou've got your pets food,
clothing, you know, medicines,all those important things to
take.
Allan Marks (16:35):
A friend I know who lost his home in the Palisades
was lamenting.
I talked to him about a weekago.
He said, you know, I I didn'tand he's older so he has
experience in life and familydrama.
On going back to the Holocaust,right.
Sean Knierim (16:56):
So he said I was surprised that I did pack things
and kind of left, but I left mylaptop and my wallet on my desk
so I didn't have those those,which was really sad you know,
alan, for the last three monthsand this happened more at the
beginning, but it still happensone of the four of us in the
family will go my guitar, likethere'll be some item that will
(17:21):
all of a sudden be rememberedalong with the emotional hit of
it not being there.
And this could be I, I myt-shirt, my Ryan Sandberg jersey
and there's things.
But there's also memories thatwere left behind.
Allan Marks (17:35):
Yeah, because the things are representative of the
experience you have and theemotions and the feelings around
the people you shared thosetimes with.
Sean Knierim (17:45):
Like for a brief moment in time, the Cubs ticket
for example, because that's nothappening again anytime soon,
anytime soon.
Thanks for that.
That's the way to get the firstepisode off to get.
So we're playing pretty wellright now.
Allan Marks (17:54):
Um, we so, um, but I'm gonna get back to the
objects for a second, becauselet's let's not, let's fast
forward.
Yeah, so after the fire, youevacuated, you find out the next
day that you you know, you lostyour home.
And when you evacuated, youfind out the next day that you
lost your home.
And when you went back, youfound something in the backyard
that I think is symbolic in away of how other people also
(18:15):
reached out to you during thistime.
Right, there was an angel thathad been in your backyard.
Sean Knierim (18:21):
So we went back.
Nina and her organizationoutfitted us in protective gear.
We had to get our permits, wego up and all of us I don't know
about all of us, but those Iwas with broke out crying as we
started just seeing thedevastation driving up into the
area.
I also decided that getting foodpoisoning the night before
(18:43):
would be a good way to then puta mask and things on to go see
our old home before.
It would be a good way to thenput a mask in and things on to
go see our old home.
So as we went up in the frontgarden we had a ceramic angel
that was sitting on a bird feet.
I think it was in the, the birdbath in the front yard and this
angel we found it but the headhad fallen off.
But the angel was still thereand the kids positioned it and
(19:05):
took some incredibly beautifulpictures and we'll include them
on the website that people cansee.
Allan Marks (19:10):
I remember when you sent me those it was very
poignant, and then it becameeven more indelibly inked into
our family, oh, you mean Of.
Aidan, oh yeah.
Nina Knierim (19:21):
So my son decided because he knew he wanted to
memorialize what had happened.
He didn't really know how to dothat, but once we came upon
that angel, the statue of theangel, and brought it back, we
put a bunch of things in tubs sothe ash and things wouldn't get
on our clothing and our skin.
(19:42):
And we hadn't opened it in awhile, not since we'd gone to
the house, partly because Ididn't want to have to wash
everything, but also I don'tthink I was ready to look at it
again.
You know, it was like I saw itin the ashes, picked it up out
of the ashes, I put it in thisbox and I carried it away, but I
wasn't ready.
You know, my son, on the otherhand, as Sean had mentioned, you
(20:06):
know, on the other hand, as he,as Sean had mentioned, you know
, really look at it took somebeautiful pictures and decided
to get a tattoo of that angelwithout its head.
Sean Knierim (20:15):
Yeah, because you know that is important and so
yeah, he decided that themajority of people he was
hearing about getting tattooswere getting phoenixes and he
goes.
That's going to be the mostcliche tattoo in a few years I'm
going to do something that'sreally personally connected.
Allan Marks (20:31):
You literally rose that angel up out of the ashes.
I mean, it is an importantsymbol.
Sean Knierim (20:37):
It really is, and on the hill, so next to us, the
only house on our street thatsurvived is a house that took
about three years to build.
It was built with newconstruction and was lucky
enough that it had somedefensible area around it where
the fire just didn't hit it.
They took a cross out of ouryard and planted it on the hill,
(20:58):
and that's another picture wehave of the sun coming behind
and this cross looking down overthe top of the devastation,
down the hill, with the birdsand the natural world still
surviving around it, it wasreally an extraordinary time up
on the up in the property
Nina Knierim (21:13):
It really was.
Allan Marks (21:14):
Tell me more about how community and family and
friends responded to you.
Sean Knierim (21:19):
It has been extraordinary and it really is.
For me, one of the impetuspoints if you can have an
impetus point for this podcastis to try and tell these stories
.
I've been writing about them,as you know, alan, the morning,
so we found our way to the WestEnd at LAX, so we're about 20
miles south of our house.
We are in a northern exposedwindow on the 11th floor so you
(21:44):
can see the mountains.
We could see all three firesthat broke out that night and we
watched the fires come down thehill night after night after
night as we were down at thehotel.
I woke up the next morning.
I counted 750 text messagesthat I received.
This is just me and you weregetting outreach.
Kids were getting outreach ofpeople asking how are you, what
(22:07):
do you need, how can I help?
Like those were the three thatand I was overwhelmed, both in
terms of the outreach and peoplethat I had not talked to in
forever were reaching out tomake sure we were okay and like
two pieces that kept hitting me.
It's like I didn't know what Ineeded.
It hurt to ask for help, ithurt to tell people what I
(22:31):
needed and it really hurt toaccept help.
So I had a hard time.
Nina Knierim (22:36):
Yeah, and, and so you might be able to tell a
little bit that we are a familyof givers.
Right, we've.
We were raised that way andwe've decided to dedicate our
lives, you know, to that workand to those missions.
And we've raised two beautifulchildren who obviously have met
and have watched us and we'vementored them and they see how
(23:00):
we treat our you know each other, our family, our community, and
know that we are the ones thatare going to be the first to
give.
So when Sean talks about thedifficulty for anyone to ask for
help, you know, let alonepeople, that's like kind of what
they do for, you know, for aliving, and have led their
entire lives that way, as Seanbeing a high school teacher and
(23:25):
a baseball coach in high school,and I was in the military and
also did pro bono work forasylum seekers during the first
as a lawyer, as a lawyer, yes,in the first Trump presidency.
So you know, these are thingsthat we do and we're not looking
for anything for that.
(23:46):
Right, it's just what you do.
And so when the tables wereturned, in order for me to
believe it myself, I had to sitand say to my kids I said look,
we are a family of givers and Ihad to give very concrete
examples to my son.
When you were five years oldand somebody in school didn't
have their lunch, you sharedtheir lunch with them, didn't
you?
He's like, yeah, I said.
(24:07):
And tell me how many times he'slike I can't even tell you how
many times.
All the way through high school, you know, sharing of lunch,
money, things like that.
My daughter same thing, likeshe, you know has been working
in community gardens and beenvery, very supportive of her
community, and so to think aboutreceiving money, clothing, you
(24:28):
know, other types of support didnot seem or set right with any
of us, and so when I was able tosort of say that to both of
them, then you could see themsort of realize.
I said now it's our turn andit's okay.
Sean Knierim (24:43):
And it's okay.
And it was tough and it is okay, and to have to come up with
what we needed when we didn'tknow where we were was difficult
.
I will remember I had threephone calls, four phone calls
the first morning as I waswaking up and seeing this, and
people called and said here ismy home, you can have it.
Alan.
You are one of the people thatcalled Yvonne Markman, sean
Abramson, rc Buford all calledand offered us their homes that
(25:06):
day, like how can we help?
So there were some people thatleaned in and said here's what I
think you need, can you help?
Others then showed up, helpedset up a GoFundMe to support our
family, helped create a funnelfor all of these things where
they took it from us.
So there's a group of folks.
But then over time there justcontinued this outpouring of
(25:28):
love, of support, of hugs.
I can remember a number of themvery vividly, which we can talk
about some of them, or we'llkeep writing about them, but
just in general it felt like wegot support from this incredible
group of humans around us.
Nina Knierim (25:43):
We were surrounded .
Allan Marks (25:45):
I remember the Saturday, so there were still
embers coming down.
Nina Knierim (25:50):
Oh yeah.
Allan Marks (25:50):
Right and we had to wear our masks because the air
quality was pretty scary.
Yeah that your daughter andsome of her friends from Pali
High had organized a clothingdrive, because obviously
families who've lost everythingneed some clothes in a hurry.
And my daughter and I went overand my daughter had, among the
clothes she wanted to donate,picked out some things she
thought that your daughter wouldlike yeah.
(26:12):
But your daughter doesn't wantto accept things when she can
give and I don't know if youknow this, but you know she
didn't want to have the firstchoice and she certainly she was
much more focused on gettingeverybody coordinated and making
sure that families that wereand, by the way, what they did
with social um, coming to socialmedia and texting and calling
and things and and the othermothers that were also helping
(26:33):
some of their daughters withthis uh, you know, if a family
needed size xxl for the fatherand they had a five-year-old and
a 10-year-old and a boy and agirl and you know what they like
, this kind of we were puttingtogether little kits and and
making sure everybody gotexactly the sizes and the kinds
of things that they needed andwhat was amazing there, alan
like but your daughter, I wantto say really I mean really was
(26:55):
taking one of the lead roles itwas her idea.
Sean Knierim (26:58):
We didn't know you and your daughter were going,
like people were showing up andthe fact that this was happening
outside of our control, likethis whole, like what do you
have control over, it becamepretty clear how little we did.
So a few other little notesabout notes, big notes about
that Marmot.
The company directed a gooddeal of their support to the LA
(27:21):
community through a contactMaria has at Eastman chemical.
But through Maria, like I havea Marmot shirt it's the first
t-shirt I had and I will alwayshold onto this because it came
through.
Maria came up with this idea.
There was a doctor who came inwho was doing a surgery.
She wasn't able to get back toher house.
She comes into this clothingexchange or the clothing
(27:42):
giveaway in the scrubs she waswearing at the hospital and told
Maria, I don't have socks, canyou help me?
And Maria was able to help her.
Then Maria had to peel off.
It got to be too much for herand she realized it and she did
let it go quicker than her momand me were able to let things
go, but she was able to.
Allan Marks (28:02):
So let me ask you a question about that.
So, as a parent, you knowyou're responsible for yourself
and for your children, andthey're responsible for
themselves and their peers andtheir family too.
But it's not the same.
And yet they've also just losttheir high school.
They've lost, you know, theirwhole.
Sean Knierim (28:19):
And at that point they thought the high school was
gone.
Allan Marks (28:22):
Yes, that's right and it's still closed.
Yeah, physically Yep, as theyrebuild.
But how do you, how is itdifferent?
Do you think for them?
And remember, this is a cohortthat also went through Zoom and
remote learning for schoolbecause of the COVID you know
pandemic just a few years ago.
I mean they've had a kind of atough run.
Nina Knierim (28:43):
Yeah, I mean we laugh about it, right, because
we I mean because we can't cryabout it what these kids have
been through, what our kids havebeen through, and trying to
compare it to things that we mayhave experienced in our own
childhood or growing up.
(29:04):
And I'm not going to pretend toeven understand what a teenage
mind you know and how they areviewing everything that's
happening right now, havingprocessed and lived through
COVID.
But I will say that I believethat these events and what
(29:26):
they've been through have madethem more resilient, not just in
okay, here's something else wehave to overcome.
Here's something else we haveto learn how to manage and live
with.
Here's something else that isnow our new reality, on top of
everyday things that are goingon, and absolutely I think it's
making them more resilient.
(29:47):
And as parents and taking careof being responsible for our
kids and our kids are a littlebit older, right as teenagers
and college student it's stillyou still want to protect them.
We can't protect them from this.
Right, we did our protection,which was being ready and
(30:07):
getting out as soon as we could,but we can't protect them from
the aftermath.
We're all living it.
That's hard, that's really hard.
Sean Knierim (30:16):
And each of the kids responded differently.
So Maria has an incredible andlarge community of friends high
school friends, friends fromgrade school, the soccer
community she's in and some ofthe other communities she's part
of, and she has done aremarkable job of surrounding
herself with people she couldtalk to reflect on, experience.
(30:36):
This, together with Our son,has a more independent lifestyle
, what he's doing in school,what he's doing as an athlete,
as an aspiring athlete orcurrent athlete and aspiring
athlete, where his friend groupis much tighter group and a
smaller group that aren'tnecessarily in town.
So for Aiden there was a lotmore time with us.
(30:59):
For Aiden there was a lot moretime with the cycling community
in Los Angeles that cametogether to try to take care of
him in an amazing way, but thatgroup aren't a lot of
20-year-olds.
There were some younger kids onhis team that supported him, but
these were folks from 30through 85 that showed up for
aid, and so it was a reallydifferent experience.
Both of these kids have comethrough and they had each other
(31:22):
Like.
The thing our kids have beenblessed with is the relationship
that the two of them have.
Those two, plus our dog, luna,really supported each other as
well.
Allan Marks (31:33):
What about other members of the community that
have lost businesses or jobs?
I mean, I think of a lot of thepeople who are, you know,
taking care of landscaping orworking, as you know, serving in
the kitchen in localrestaurants and things in the
grocery stores.
You know a lot of them.
Now also, of course, are, are,are impact and they don't have
the same assistance or insuranceopportunities.
Nina Knierim (31:52):
They have some.
Allan Marks (31:53):
What do they?
How are you seeing that?
Nina Knierim (31:57):
Because CORE, as you mentioned earlier, the
organization that I work fordoes humanitarian aid and
disaster responseinternationally and nationally
as well.
One of the things that they'veimplemented is cash and voucher
assistance programming forpeople who go through, you know,
catastrophes like this andcrisis like this, because we
(32:19):
found, as an organization,obviously, that individuals know
what they need their money for,they know how to spend it for
themselves and their family, andwhile other things like you
know meal cards or you knowdepartment gift cards and things
like that are all good and fine, how are you going to pay your
rent or your daily motel rate ifthat's where you're staying
(32:41):
when you're displaced?
So CORE is actually encompassingnot just people who have lost
their homes, but also people whohave had their businesses
impacted by losing clients losttheir homes, but also people who
have had their businessesimpacted by losing clients or
they.
You know it was a region thatthey worked in close to their
home, or maybe they lostequipment.
You know that was at a house ora construction site that they
were working on and so thismoney is meant to help
(33:06):
supplement and kind of get themback on their feet while they
reestablish their business,potentially in a different
region or with new clients inthe same area, and so that has
been very significant in helpingthat community, both in the
Palisades and even fire areas.
Sean Knierim (33:21):
A lot of other organizations have offered
similar support.
Personally, I find myselffeeling guilty from time to time
where I was so focused on myfamily and those people around
us that there wasn't a lot oftime for us personally to be
supporting others.
The one place where we also sawsome like not only those like
(33:45):
the guy who helped with theproperty where we were living
lost 100% of his work in thatday.
The restaurants that showed upto help ended up losing not only
the contributions they weregiving to those of us that lost
our homes.
A lot of free meals wereoffered and not many people went
to the restaurants to eatduring that time because people
(34:06):
were hunkering down and didn'twant to go out.
I remember a lot of thoserestaurants, like I just wrote
about Milo and Olive.
For a while they didn't have Alot of those restaurants, like I
just wrote about Milo and Olivefor a while, they didn't have a
lot of people coming in.
So not only were they giving,they were also not receiving
from the community.
So I think there's still a neatopportunity for us to think
about.
How can we support if we haveto hire someone?
How can we find ways to drivework to people who were affected
(34:28):
, but also look at thosebusinesses in town that really
showed up for communities andfind ways to bring business to
them over time so that thecommunity gets to help them in
return and start replenishingwhat they have.
So we're ready to help eachother the next time.
Allan Marks (34:44):
Let me ask you a question too, because I mean I
know it's not in my family.
We've been through some thingsin the past.
You know people have lost ahome.
My uncle actually lived in theBel Air fire in 1961 when you
know several homes got destroyedon their block and you know
there's other traumas thatfamilies, all families, have
gone through.
But a disaster that'scommunity-wide is different
(35:08):
because it's affecting so manypeople all at the same time and
in some strikingly similar ways.
Does that then signal that theresponse to it whether it's
really well-coordinated or notmaybe more spontaneous, but that
the response to it is somehowalso maybe stronger and better
or capable of building moreresilience because the entire
(35:28):
community is affected?
Or is it just the scale of itis so massive that it just makes
that challenge more daunting?
Sean Knierim (35:34):
I think all the above is probably yes.
I think there's a lot to learnfrom this, to add to what we
know about other type ofdisasters and how to respond
with each other.
I mean something that I havenoticed a lot and I don't know
how much you hear this name ispeople who try and compare their
trauma and their experience toothers.
Like, well, I didn't lose myhouse, even though I know some
(35:54):
people who didn't lose theirhome that in some ways, were
affected more severely thanothers.
So, figuring out how, as acommunity, we can recognize that
some of us have lost thingsthat need support and have been
affected differently, but, atthe same time, how do we
acknowledge and honor whateveryone's feeling and be able
(36:16):
to support them in differentways?
I think that's something thatwe don't know how to do.
Well, we're always trying tocompare, like you're hurt worse
than mine, so therefore, I'mgoing to try and belittle what
I'm feeling, and I've seen thatin a lot of different people
throughout the community.
Nina Knierim (36:31):
Both Sean and I agree and a lot of different
people throughout the community.
Both Sean and I agree we do tryand at least not be so, you
know, emphatic about don't saythat, don't say that, but
explain why they should honortheir own trauma and their own
experience and their ownfeelings about what happened,
while still expressing, you know, sympathy or empathy or
(36:53):
whatever emotion or expressionthey're trying to give in a
particular context.
But yeah, it does happen quitea bit and some people get it
when you kind of slow down andexplain to them why we're all in
this together and why it's nota know, it's not a comparison,
as as Sean says, but just acollective, you know, experience
(37:17):
and a collective trauma that we, that we all have and are
sharing still, and there was oneother thing, a nuance that
might be interesting to explore.
Sean Knierim (37:24):
Throughout a lot of these, these podcasts, I
remember thanking people all thetime.
It was really important for meto be able to give gratitude, to
acknowledge what people broughtto us.
So often I heard people say no,no, no, it was nothing.
Oh yeah, that too, it's theleast I could do, that too, and
it's changing now, but in themoment I remember every time
that someone told me it wasnothing, it felt like it was
(37:47):
devaluing the gratitude I wastrying to give.
You're saying it's nothing, butfor me it's the most important
thing I've ever received.
I didn't own a t-shirt and nowthis is the only t-shirt and
you're telling me it's nothing.
But that to you it seemed likeyour gratitude was being
belittled it was, and I startedtrying to share with people,
(38:07):
especially groups that we'reworking a lot, spending a lot of
time with groups that we'reworking a lot, spending a lot of
time with.
I'm like please just say you'rewelcome and leave it at that.
Let us express our gratitude,our love, our tears.
But don't take that away andI'm pretty sure I do this all
the time because in this momentof community it wasn't nothing,
it wasn't the least you could do, it was the most you were able
(38:31):
to do at that moment and choseto.
Allan Marks (38:32):
That's right, yeah, what makes you the most hopeful
now?
Nina Knierim (38:41):
Both of us are.
I think it's a gift and I meanwe are at this place right now
to sort of lead the conversationand be part of the you know,
(39:01):
resilience, the moving forward,but the rebuilding of and even
building, I would say, buildingtrust in communities, across
industries, across areas thatmaybe wasn't there before.
So that makes me very hopeful.
(39:23):
Secondly, there's somethingthat comes good.
That is good because of adisaster like this People are
paying attention, their ears areopen, they want to know more,
they definitely don't want it tohappen to them and the people
who it happened to definitelydon't want it to happen to them
again.
(39:44):
So it is an opportune time to beable to spread this messaging
about, at least for me, more onthe side of resilience and
preparedness for the next event,because this is not the last
time we will, or thesecommunities will, be impacted by
some catastrophic event or someother disruption.
(40:05):
Maybe it's a long-term poweroutage, maybe it's, you know,
other types of events, but theywill be here and so knowing what
to do in those scenarios andtaking the experience that we
had makes me really hopeful.
You know that people will bemore prepared next time and that
(40:25):
and I see the work on theground.
I am very, very honored to beable to be in front of
communities, to speak at theYMCA or the Boys and Girls Club,
to be invited by localnonprofits and community-based
organizations because they trustus.
They trust us because we havethe expertise, trust us because
we have the experience but also—Real experience.
Allan Marks (40:46):
Real experience, personal experience.
Nina Knierim (40:48):
But also because people are also looking for
leaders.
But also because people arealso looking for leaders and I
would not identify myself as aleader so much in a general
context At work.
I am a leader and now I'm kindof finding myself put into this
sort of you know platformposition to carry this message,
(41:12):
hearing your voice emerge hasbeen extraordinary, both as
someone who loves you deeply butalso as someone who's looking
for hope in the community.
Sean Knierim (41:20):
To see voices like yours emerge, to see you on the
Today Show, PBS NewsHour, butalso talking with communities
around.
It's been remarkable seeing youand loving you and watching you
kind of lean into this momentand then seeing a lot of other
leaders around town from acrosssystems.
I think your point of trust isreally important, Like trust
(41:43):
becomes the currency of thisresilient Even more so now.
Allan Marks (41:48):
And trustworthiness too Seriously.
I think, one reason you are aleader is not just because you
do the things that leaders areexpected to do ordinarily in the
day job right Of setting avision, mobilizing people around
it in support of it andexecuting.
But now you're also, sadly, arole model.
Nina Knierim (42:05):
Wow, I didn't think of it that way, and that's
a different level of leadershiptoo.
Yeah, I didn't think of it thatway at all.
Sean Knierim (42:11):
And then, as I'm thinking of moments of hope,
seeing the community cometogether the way it did in a
city that might not have beenthought of as a really resilient
, cohesive giving city in LosAngeles.
Allan Marks (42:26):
But a phenomenally to watch, To my surprise.
A phenomenally is.
Sean Knierim (42:29):
It was extraordinary.
Like this feels like home now.
I don't know if I would havesaid that four months ago.
Like I love la, I love the factthat we've lived here.
This is a home to me now inways that few other places are
like.
I feel really rooted here and Ifeel a deep commitment to this
area and I know others that feelthat way.
Seeing the kids show up and dothings, to see how my daughter
(42:50):
showed up, to see the leadershipmy son has exhibited in in his
role, in what he's doing, andthen to see a lot of the other
young folks around town, inaltadena, in the palisades, but
high schools around the countrysending stuff here to be of
service.
It's, it's amazing and thisisn't just an la story.
(43:10):
I think the hope for me comesfrom seeing how this rippled
outside of this region in waysthat there are connections
established between sectors,industries, domains, geographies
, sizes of organizations thatdid not exist four months ago
and I think that bodes well forthe future strength of this
(43:31):
region.
Allan Marks (43:31):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
Both of you thank you forsharing so personally and openly
what you've gone through.
Nina, especially, thank you forbeing the guest on the first
episode for this.
Nina Knierim (43:41):
This is terrific, and Sean.
Allan Marks (43:43):
I know I look forward to future episodes of
Shared Ground where we canexplore this with others and
kind of see what they've gonethrough and what the lessons
might be for the future.
Sean Knierim (43:54):
Yeah, and to take this personal experience and be
able to broaden out and hearthat personal experience for
others and figure out how do wekeep grooving together into the
future.
Absolutely, it's a sharedground.
This is Share Ground, a podcast about
resilience and community.
I'm Allan Marks and I'm SeanKnierim.
Thanks so much for joining usToday.
Today's a little different frommost weeks, most likely, in
that I think I'm more of beinginterviewed than being the host,
so I'm going to throw it backover to Alan.
Good, I'm going to throw backsome good questions for you in a
minute, but we have a guesttoday who's very special.
(00:21):
Today, Nina Knierim have aguest today who's very special
today, Nina Knierim is here.
Sean, would you like tointroduce Nina for us?
Yeah, so we're starting todaytalking with me and with my wife
of 24 years together for longerthan that.
So really delighted you're hereto join us.
Thanks, Nina.
Nina Knierim (00:36):
Thanks for asking me.
Allan Marks (00:38):
So Shared Ground is a podcast that's looking at
resilience, it's looking at grit, it's looking at community and
things that help communities tobecome stronger, and a lot of
what happens.
Sometimes the communitiesrequire strong governance,
strong leadership, but sometimesit comes from the bottom.
It comes from the people on theground who are going through
things, and in Los Angeles weare going through things.
(00:59):
We just had fires in Januarythat caused over 150,000 people
to have to evacuate.
The fires destroyed 17,000 ormore structures, including 6,000
or more homes in the PacificPalisades and even more homes in
the Eaton Canyon fire in thecommunity of Altadena.
These are not just numbers,these are real people, and with
(01:20):
us today are two people who havelost their home in the
Palisades fire, and you and yourfamily, I think, typify what it
means to be resilient.
But I don't want to just, youknow, jump to that.
I mean, what you went throughwas harrowing and it's a real
loss.
So diving right in, Sean, whyis it important for you to share
this story?
Sean Knierim (01:39):
So I'd say, in addition to how you described
resilience at the top, somethingthat's really struck me over
the last few months is theimportance of kindness,
generosity, that expectation ofreciprocity, people just showing
up for each other in thatcommunity.
And while you said bottom up, Ithink, and also think of bottom
.
I'm thinking in terms of, likethe foundation of the kind of
(02:00):
resilience we need in oursociety.
Resilience we need in oursociety.
Even talking about this helpsme put in a buffer for the
emotions that are still here,like right now.
I feel tears behind my eyes andI've been talking about this
thing for months.
So, yeah, we lost our home.
We are right now in the processof like stabilizing, but not
(02:20):
yet stable is what I've beensaying.
But really blessed to be hereto have a chance to talk about
this.
Allan Marks (02:28):
Nina, why are you willing to share your story
today?
Nina Knierim (02:32):
Well, first of all , thank you so much for having
me in this inaugural podcastthat you all are starting.
I think it's really importantto get this kind of messaging
out.
I've been fortunate to be ableto do a little bit of
storytelling myself and when Istarted thinking that, hey, is
this too much?
Am I going out and doing toomuch speaking about this
(02:53):
particular topic?
But I don't think I am and,similar to what Sean shared,
it's very, very therapeutic.
I find I am reinvigorated, Ifeel more gratitude and less
loss when I have an opportunityto speak like this and just
really hone in on the subjectwithout external sort of
(03:18):
disruptions and just, you know,be able to talk about it.
Allan Marks (03:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, just taking a moment tospeak makes us process, and I
think you're right, sean, whenyou mentioned you were
stabilizing, but not stable yet,I think.
With respect to grief and loss,I remember a very wise person
once telling me we don't getaround it.
We don't get over it, we getthrough it.
Sean Knierim (03:40):
And, what's interesting, so many people are.
I feel like people are namingthe emotions that they're
expecting us to go through andmany times like I've heard grief
over and over again and it'slike you're going to see anger
and you're going to see all ofthese different emotions that
are part of the human.
You know, panoply of what wefeel coming out of these things.
I can't recognize or identifywhat the emotion is, or I can't.
(04:04):
Maybe it's because many of theemotions are coming through
simultaneously.
I can talk more about that in abit and in fact we're going to
have someone in a few weeks totalk with us about what he's
recognized here, but I don'tknow that it feels like grief
all the time for me.
Nina Knierim (04:25):
Nina, are you able to recognize what you're
feeling on a moment-by-momentbasis?
Right now I am trying toidentify, at least not trying to
identify exactly or nameexactly what emotion I'm feeling
, but where is it coming from?
Because often I'm finding itcoming out in not the right
environment, not the rightsituation.
Both of us are workingfull-time, you know.
So we have the stresses of jobs, full-time jobs, and we also
(04:49):
have two teenage children.
So, you know, life is continued.
Sean Knierim (04:53):
One teenage child.
Nina Knierim (04:54):
Well, right, I keep saying my son is 20 now but
he's still a student, and so we, when I feel those emotions
kind of come up, I do try toidentify where is it coming from
?
Is it really coming fromwhatever's happening in the
situation now, or is itsomething deeper?
And if it's something deeper, Ido give myself grace.
(05:14):
I'll walk away for a secondkind of breathe and come back to
it, because I don't want to beforced to let something out
there that doesn't really belongin that context.
So it's.
It's not easy, you know.
Emotions, mental health,everything that we hold dear to
(05:34):
us because it it affectseverything that we do, you know
has been fractured, it has beenbruised and battered.
So it's okay to have thosetimes when you feel not so
settled and not so in charge ofthe thoughts going through your
(05:55):
head and giving yourself grace,my self-grace, trying to get my
spouse grace whenever we havedisagreements.
But that's what I try to doanyway, yeah.
Allan Marks (06:08):
So let me come back to the kids for a second.
Yeah, so at the moment thefires they break out and they
became with the high winds.
We had the very dry soil, thevery dry conditions.
This was an urban fire thathappened to be ignited in an
adjacent wildland.
I don't ever like the termwildfire, really, because of the
(06:28):
way the fire behaved and theway people were impacted, but
when that happened, obviouslyyou know you're not just
thinking of yourself or eachother.
You're also thinking of yourkids and your family.
What did you do?
What happened?
What was that experience likewhen you knew you had to
evacuate?
Nina Knierim (06:47):
was that experience like when you knew
you had to evacuate?
So, uh, fortunately I do I didhave some foresight into what
the weather conditions were, uh,the dangerous, um, you know,
impact that a wildfire wouldhave or spark anywhere in the
city, anywhere in the County.
Really, um, and anothermultiple counties were also
feeling the effects of thosehigh winds and very dry uh, you
know, overnight humidity levelsand things like that that
contribute to the wildfire thatdid happen in both the Eden Fire
(07:13):
and Palisades Fire.
And I would say that because wehad more information, meaning I
did have an app on my phonethat's widely used within, you
know, wildfire mitigation andwildfire preparedness.
Sean Knierim (07:31):
What app is that?
Nina Knierim (07:32):
It's called sorry.
Sean Knierim (07:37):
I don't know, I don't have it on my phone I just
lost it.
Nina Knierim (07:40):
Sorry.
Allan Marks (07:41):
We'll find it.
Nina Knierim (07:42):
Watch duty.
Allan Marks (07:43):
Okay, watch duty.
So actually I downloaded watchduty that day because of the
fire.
Sorry, we'll find it WatchDuty.
Okay, WatchDuty.
So actually I downloadedWatchDuty that day because of
the fire.
Sorry, I'm not sure the numberis right.
Watchduty is an app that isextraordinarily timely and
precise, right as far asfiguring out fire risk, but also
fires that are active andevacuations and things that are
associated with it, so I want tocontinue on that 600,000, I
(08:05):
think downloads of that justthat week yeah.
Nina Knierim (08:08):
Yeah, so I have been using that app for three
years now, so I'm very familiarwith it.
Allan Marks (08:15):
You're OG yes.
Nina Knierim (08:16):
It's been upgraded several times.
It is run by a nonprofit, whichI'm hoping you know something
happens there where they get alot of funding to continue to
develop that tool because it'snecessary.
And if our own you know, firstresponders and organizational
local government, state, federalgovernment don't have warning
(08:37):
systems in place that are timely, accurate and go off when they
should, having that type ofinformation on your phone will
help you and an individual incommunities be more prepared.
So, because we were moreprepared, the idea that a
wildfire was coming and it wascoming towards us fast put all
(08:58):
of us into action quickly and wedid know what to do.
We did know what to take and wedid know what to do.
We did know what to take.
However, it did not replacesome of the other after the
(09:32):
other until you reach safety.
And I think, because we hadsome of those tools, it wasn't
as bad of an experience as weleft, but it was still
traumatizing.
Sean Knierim (09:45):
And a few nights before, on the first day of the
year, overnight some fireworkswent off in almost the same spot
that the fire on the seventhbroke out, and Nina woke us up
in the middle of the night,having seen the alert, and we
got to go through and preparethe cars and get ready.
We saw the airplanes puttingout the fires, but we were
(10:05):
packed and ready to go and hadto go through it.
Thankfully, Nina.
I mean with what you do for aliving, I mean she's.
Allan Marks (10:13):
We should pause and say what you do for a living.
Nina Knierim (10:18):
I think it's pretty relevant to this.
Nina, what do you do for aliving?
What do I do for a living?
So yes, and I will preface itwith the irony is not lost on me
or anybody that I work with.
I am a climate and disasterresilience professional, which
means that I not only study theimpacts of climate change with
regards to extreme weather, butI also help communities, local
(10:40):
government and countiesthroughout the state of
California prepare for thoseinevitabilities.
And so when I say we wereprepared, I mean we were
prepared.
And we were not only preparedfor a wildfire, we were prepared
for a flood, we were preparedfor an earthquake, we were
prepared for any other type of,you know, extreme or
(11:00):
catastrophic event that couldcome our way, extreme or
catastrophic event that couldcome our way.
So when I say you know havingprepared for a wildfire, when
you prepare for one type ofdisaster, you're preparing for
all of them.
Sure, there are things that youwould want to have depending,
but you really only have to doit once and then sort of circle
back to it, you know, every sixmonths to make sure your
(11:21):
supplies and things are together.
Allan Marks (11:23):
Let me ask you both a question, though, about that,
because, from your work at Coreand your experience, you had
your go bag.
Yes, right, but what's in theemotional go bag?
Not the physical one, butwhat's in the emotional go bag
that people should pack andobviously different people have
different personalities andrespond very differently to a
(11:45):
difficult situation like thatbut what's what's in the
emotional toolkit that thatwould be helpful or that you
wish you'd have had in youremotional go-bag?
Sean Knierim (11:53):
so I think what's interesting here not having gone
through an experience like thisbefore, I wasn't sure how I
would respond in this type of acrisis.
I mean, our family's gonethrough some challenging things.
We've been together for goingon almost 30 years now, like so
we've seen some times, but we'venot gone through a hundred mile
an hour wind whipping a fire atour house.
(12:14):
So it was interesting to seehow each of the four of us
responded in that moment, anddifferent of us have had
different preparations for thesethings.
Um, myself, I was able to seelike parallel lines, or maybe
stochastic multiple parallellines going on of.
I knew what the go bag was.
(12:34):
It was this satchel, right, andI knew what needed to go in the
car.
Interestingly, the go bag, whenI had a little extra time, was
not packed the suitcases.
It wasn't packed other stuff.
I got out all of the stuff thatwas in the go bag when I had a
little extra time was not packedthe suitcases.
It wasn't packed other stuff.
I got out all of the stuff thatwas in the go bag and at the
same time that I was gettingthinking through, like how to
get the kids out of the house,what Nina was doing with your
(12:56):
core shirt on going around andmaking sure our neighbors were
okay as we were trying to packyour stuff in cars.
I was also still like Ifinished a Zoom meeting while
everyone started packing thecars.
I was also still like Ifinished a zoom meeting while
everyone started packing thecars.
The hello fresh, hello fresh,the, the prepared box meal guy.
I was the last one to leave thehouse.
The hello fresh guy shows up asI'm watching the fires come
(13:20):
down towards the house.
I stop, he hands me the box, Ipoint to the fires and this
gentleman goes.
I get paid by the box todeliver, which is one of the
first moments that actually ledto this podcast happening is
thinking about what's theexperience of everyone around?
I took the box and I could havegone and packed a suitcase.
I could have taken more stuffoff the walls.
I could have done all kinds ofthings.
(13:40):
My son brought no souvenirs outof his room.
I could have saved the cubsticket when they won the world
series.
I put the box not only in thekitchen, I opened it and put all
of the perishables away becauseI didn't want nina to be upset
if we wasted food and came backlater that night.
So I was in normal mode andrespond to disaster mode
(14:01):
simultaneously, but almost in adisassociated way and there's
two different songs.
And not being aware of it.
Nina Knierim (14:16):
I will say almost the exact same thing happened
and I didn't recognize it untilyou were just talking about it
just now, the sort of likecontinuing to sort of see
everyday life happening aroundyou while this you know
catastrophic wildfire is comingdown the hill.
Because of my training and whatI've seen and I've visited burn
scars I've worked withlong-term recovery groups in
wildfire areas in NorthernCalifornia and Southern
(14:38):
California.
So when I was going around tothe neighbors Sean mentioned
that because I got to a pointwhere I was like, okay, I've got
at least 10, 15 minutes now Icannot live with myself if I
don't at least knock on myneighbor's door, because she was
a homebound woman in her 80s,blind, couldn't walk, couldn't
(14:59):
reach any of her relatives, andso I was really concerned about
her.
So she was my first person toknock on the door Then and she
got out.
And she got out.
Yes, thanks.
Yes, of course she got out.
Sean Knierim (15:12):
Don't leave us in suspense on that, Don't, don't?
No Thanks to her nephew whodrove up.
Nina Knierim (15:15):
No, no, it wasn't.
It wasn't.
It was our other neighbor,don't worry.
Our other neighbor, our otherneighbor helped.
So neighbors helping neighborsis really what I want to say
there, because, as we're allseeing this fire coming down the
hill, people are helping eachother.
And I was going around and, asthis was happening, before the
emergency orders came evacuationorders people were going about
(15:38):
their daily lives, similar towhat Sean said.
Some of them hadn't even seenthe smoke or the fire because
they're you know, they're intheir house, they're doing
homeschool, they've got theirdog, their baby or the nanny's
probably taking care of the kids.
So there was a lot of thingsgoing on for this interruption
to happen, and my job isoutreach, community education.
(15:59):
Like I said, I could not haveleft that community without
stopping to knock on everybody'sdoor before we left, and then,
on my way out, I continued tojump out of my car and, with my
core hat and my T-shirt on, Ijust put it over my pajama shirt
and said I am a trainedprofessional.
Please listen to me.
I know you haven't received anevacuation order, but you have
(16:20):
about 30 minutes before thatfire is on your doorstep.
So please, please, get yourstuff together, get your family
and I gave them the things Getyour important papers, grab some
cash, you know, make sureyou've got your pets food,
clothing, you know, medicines,all those important things to
take.
Allan Marks (16:35):
A friend I know who lost his home in the Palisades
was lamenting.
I talked to him about a weekago.
He said, you know, I I didn'tand he's older so he has
experience in life and familydrama.
On going back to the Holocaust,right.
Sean Knierim (16:56):
So he said I was surprised that I did pack things
and kind of left, but I left mylaptop and my wallet on my desk
so I didn't have those those,which was really sad you know,
alan, for the last three monthsand this happened more at the
beginning, but it still happensone of the four of us in the
family will go my guitar, likethere'll be some item that will
(17:21):
all of a sudden be rememberedalong with the emotional hit of
it not being there.
And this could be I, I myt-shirt, my Ryan Sandberg jersey
and there's things.
But there's also memories thatwere left behind.
Allan Marks (17:35):
Yeah, because the things are representative of the
experience you have and theemotions and the feelings around
the people you shared thosetimes with.
Sean Knierim (17:45):
Like for a brief moment in time, the Cubs ticket
for example, because that's nothappening again anytime soon,
anytime soon.
Thanks for that.
That's the way to get the firstepisode off to get.
So we're playing pretty wellright now.
Allan Marks (17:54):
Um, we so, um, but I'm gonna get back to the
objects for a second, becauselet's let's not, let's fast
forward.
Yeah, so after the fire, youevacuated, you find out the next
day that you you know, you lostyour home.
And when you evacuated, youfind out the next day that you
lost your home.
And when you went back, youfound something in the backyard
that I think is symbolic in away of how other people also
(18:15):
reached out to you during thistime.
Right, there was an angel thathad been in your backyard.
Sean Knierim (18:21):
So we went back.
Nina and her organizationoutfitted us in protective gear.
We had to get our permits, wego up and all of us I don't know
about all of us, but those Iwas with broke out crying as we
started just seeing thedevastation driving up into the
area.
I also decided that getting foodpoisoning the night before
(18:43):
would be a good way to then puta mask and things on to go see
our old home before.
It would be a good way to thenput a mask in and things on to
go see our old home.
So as we went up in the frontgarden we had a ceramic angel
that was sitting on a bird feet.
I think it was in the, the birdbath in the front yard and this
angel we found it but the headhad fallen off.
But the angel was still thereand the kids positioned it and
(19:05):
took some incredibly beautifulpictures and we'll include them
on the website that people cansee.
Allan Marks (19:10):
I remember when you sent me those it was very
poignant, and then it becameeven more indelibly inked into
our family, oh, you mean Of.
Aidan, oh yeah.
Nina Knierim (19:21):
So my son decided because he knew he wanted to
memorialize what had happened.
He didn't really know how to dothat, but once we came upon
that angel, the statue of theangel, and brought it back, we
put a bunch of things in tubs sothe ash and things wouldn't get
on our clothing and our skin.
(19:42):
And we hadn't opened it in awhile, not since we'd gone to
the house, partly because Ididn't want to have to wash
everything, but also I don'tthink I was ready to look at it
again.
You know, it was like I saw itin the ashes, picked it up out
of the ashes, I put it in thisbox and I carried it away, but I
wasn't ready.
You know, my son, on the otherhand, as Sean had mentioned, you
(20:06):
know, on the other hand, as he,as Sean had mentioned, you know
, really look at it took somebeautiful pictures and decided
to get a tattoo of that angelwithout its head.
Sean Knierim (20:15):
Yeah, because you know that is important and so
yeah, he decided that themajority of people he was
hearing about getting tattooswere getting phoenixes and he
goes.
That's going to be the mostcliche tattoo in a few years I'm
going to do something that'sreally personally connected.
Allan Marks (20:31):
You literally rose that angel up out of the ashes.
I mean, it is an importantsymbol.
Sean Knierim (20:37):
It really is, and on the hill, so next to us, the
only house on our street thatsurvived is a house that took
about three years to build.
It was built with newconstruction and was lucky
enough that it had somedefensible area around it where
the fire just didn't hit it.
They took a cross out of ouryard and planted it on the hill,
(20:58):
and that's another picture wehave of the sun coming behind
and this cross looking down overthe top of the devastation,
down the hill, with the birdsand the natural world still
surviving around it, it wasreally an extraordinary time up
on the up in the property
Nina Knierim (21:13):
It really was.
Allan Marks (21:14):
Tell me more about how community and family and
friends responded to you.
Sean Knierim (21:19):
It has been extraordinary and it really is.
For me, one of the impetuspoints if you can have an
impetus point for this podcastis to try and tell these stories
.
I've been writing about them,as you know, alan, the morning,
so we found our way to the WestEnd at LAX, so we're about 20
miles south of our house.
We are in a northern exposedwindow on the 11th floor so you
(21:44):
can see the mountains.
We could see all three firesthat broke out that night and we
watched the fires come down thehill night after night after
night as we were down at thehotel.
I woke up the next morning.
I counted 750 text messagesthat I received.
This is just me and you weregetting outreach.
Kids were getting outreach ofpeople asking how are you, what
(22:07):
do you need, how can I help?
Like those were the three thatand I was overwhelmed, both in
terms of the outreach and peoplethat I had not talked to in
forever were reaching out tomake sure we were okay and like
two pieces that kept hitting me.
It's like I didn't know what Ineeded.
It hurt to ask for help, ithurt to tell people what I
(22:31):
needed and it really hurt toaccept help.
So I had a hard time.
Nina Knierim (22:36):
Yeah, and, and so you might be able to tell a
little bit that we are a familyof givers.
Right, we've.
We were raised that way andwe've decided to dedicate our
lives, you know, to that workand to those missions.
And we've raised two beautifulchildren who obviously have met
and have watched us and we'vementored them and they see how
(23:00):
we treat our you know each other, our family, our community, and
know that we are the ones thatare going to be the first to
give.
So when Sean talks about thedifficulty for anyone to ask for
help, you know, let alonepeople, that's like kind of what
they do for, you know, for aliving, and have led their
entire lives that way, as Seanbeing a high school teacher and
(23:25):
a baseball coach in high school,and I was in the military and
also did pro bono work forasylum seekers during the first
as a lawyer, as a lawyer, yes,in the first Trump presidency.
So you know, these are thingsthat we do and we're not looking
for anything for that.
(23:46):
Right, it's just what you do.
And so when the tables wereturned, in order for me to
believe it myself, I had to sitand say to my kids I said look,
we are a family of givers and Ihad to give very concrete
examples to my son.
When you were five years oldand somebody in school didn't
have their lunch, you sharedtheir lunch with them, didn't
you?
He's like, yeah, I said.
(24:07):
And tell me how many times he'slike I can't even tell you how
many times.
All the way through high school, you know, sharing of lunch,
money, things like that.
My daughter same thing, likeshe, you know has been working
in community gardens and beenvery, very supportive of her
community, and so to think aboutreceiving money, clothing, you
(24:28):
know, other types of support didnot seem or set right with any
of us, and so when I was able tosort of say that to both of
them, then you could see themsort of realize.
I said now it's our turn andit's okay.
Sean Knierim (24:43):
And it's okay.
And it was tough and it is okay, and to have to come up with
what we needed when we didn'tknow where we were was difficult
.
I will remember I had threephone calls, four phone calls
the first morning as I waswaking up and seeing this, and
people called and said here ismy home, you can have it.
Alan.
You are one of the people thatcalled Yvonne Markman, sean
Abramson, rc Buford all calledand offered us their homes that
(25:06):
day, like how can we help?
So there were some people thatleaned in and said here's what I
think you need, can you help?
Others then showed up, helpedset up a GoFundMe to support our
family, helped create a funnelfor all of these things where
they took it from us.
So there's a group of folks.
But then over time there justcontinued this outpouring of
(25:28):
love, of support, of hugs.
I can remember a number of themvery vividly, which we can talk
about some of them, or we'llkeep writing about them, but
just in general it felt like wegot support from this incredible
group of humans around us.
Nina Knierim (25:43):
We were surrounded .
Allan Marks (25:45):
I remember the Saturday, so there were still
embers coming down.
Nina Knierim (25:50):
Oh yeah.
Allan Marks (25:50):
Right and we had to wear our masks because the air
quality was pretty scary.
Yeah that your daughter andsome of her friends from Pali
High had organized a clothingdrive, because obviously
families who've lost everythingneed some clothes in a hurry.
And my daughter and I went overand my daughter had, among the
clothes she wanted to donate,picked out some things she
thought that your daughter wouldlike yeah.
(26:12):
But your daughter doesn't wantto accept things when she can
give and I don't know if youknow this, but you know she
didn't want to have the firstchoice and she certainly she was
much more focused on gettingeverybody coordinated and making
sure that families that wereand, by the way, what they did
with social um, coming to socialmedia and texting and calling
and things and and the othermothers that were also helping
(26:33):
some of their daughters withthis uh, you know, if a family
needed size xxl for the fatherand they had a five-year-old and
a 10-year-old and a boy and agirl and you know what they like
, this kind of we were puttingtogether little kits and and
making sure everybody gotexactly the sizes and the kinds
of things that they needed andwhat was amazing there, alan
like but your daughter, I wantto say really I mean really was
(26:55):
taking one of the lead roles itwas her idea.
Sean Knierim (26:58):
We didn't know you and your daughter were going,
like people were showing up andthe fact that this was happening
outside of our control, likethis whole, like what do you
have control over, it becamepretty clear how little we did.
So a few other little notesabout notes, big notes about
that Marmot.
The company directed a gooddeal of their support to the LA
(27:21):
community through a contactMaria has at Eastman chemical.
But through Maria, like I havea Marmot shirt it's the first
t-shirt I had and I will alwayshold onto this because it came
through.
Maria came up with this idea.
There was a doctor who came inwho was doing a surgery.
She wasn't able to get back toher house.
She comes into this clothingexchange or the clothing
(27:42):
giveaway in the scrubs she waswearing at the hospital and told
Maria, I don't have socks, canyou help me?
And Maria was able to help her.
Then Maria had to peel off.
It got to be too much for herand she realized it and she did
let it go quicker than her momand me were able to let things
go, but she was able to.
Allan Marks (28:02):
So let me ask you a question about that.
So, as a parent, you knowyou're responsible for yourself
and for your children, andthey're responsible for
themselves and their peers andtheir family too.
But it's not the same.
And yet they've also just losttheir high school.
They've lost, you know, theirwhole.
Sean Knierim (28:19):
And at that point they thought the high school was
gone.
Allan Marks (28:22):
Yes, that's right and it's still closed.
Yeah, physically Yep, as theyrebuild.
But how do you, how is itdifferent?
Do you think for them?
And remember, this is a cohortthat also went through Zoom and
remote learning for schoolbecause of the COVID you know
pandemic just a few years ago.
I mean they've had a kind of atough run.
Nina Knierim (28:43):
Yeah, I mean we laugh about it, right, because
we I mean because we can't cryabout it what these kids have
been through, what our kids havebeen through, and trying to
compare it to things that we mayhave experienced in our own
childhood or growing up.
(29:04):
And I'm not going to pretend toeven understand what a teenage
mind you know and how they areviewing everything that's
happening right now, havingprocessed and lived through
COVID.
But I will say that I believethat these events and what
(29:26):
they've been through have madethem more resilient, not just in
okay, here's something else wehave to overcome.
Here's something else we haveto learn how to manage and live
with.
Here's something else that isnow our new reality, on top of
everyday things that are goingon, and absolutely I think it's
making them more resilient.
(29:47):
And as parents and taking careof being responsible for our
kids and our kids are a littlebit older, right as teenagers
and college student it's stillyou still want to protect them.
We can't protect them from this.
Right, we did our protection,which was being ready and
(30:07):
getting out as soon as we could,but we can't protect them from
the aftermath.
We're all living it.
That's hard, that's really hard.
Sean Knierim (30:16):
And each of the kids responded differently.
So Maria has an incredible andlarge community of friends high
school friends, friends fromgrade school, the soccer
community she's in and some ofthe other communities she's part
of, and she has done aremarkable job of surrounding
herself with people she couldtalk to reflect on, experience.
(30:36):
This, together with Our son,has a more independent lifestyle
, what he's doing in school,what he's doing as an athlete,
as an aspiring athlete orcurrent athlete and aspiring
athlete, where his friend groupis much tighter group and a
smaller group that aren'tnecessarily in town.
So for Aiden there was a lotmore time with us.
(30:59):
For Aiden there was a lot moretime with the cycling community
in Los Angeles that cametogether to try to take care of
him in an amazing way, but thatgroup aren't a lot of
20-year-olds.
There were some younger kids onhis team that supported him, but
these were folks from 30through 85 that showed up for
aid, and so it was a reallydifferent experience.
Both of these kids have comethrough and they had each other
(31:22):
Like.
The thing our kids have beenblessed with is the relationship
that the two of them have.
Those two, plus our dog, luna,really supported each other as
well.
Allan Marks (31:33):
What about other members of the community that
have lost businesses or jobs?
I mean, I think of a lot of thepeople who are, you know,
taking care of landscaping orworking, as you know, serving in
the kitchen in localrestaurants and things in the
grocery stores.
You know a lot of them.
Now also, of course, are, are,are impact and they don't have
the same assistance or insuranceopportunities.
Nina Knierim (31:52):
They have some.
Allan Marks (31:53):
What do they?
How are you seeing that?
Nina Knierim (31:57):
Because CORE, as you mentioned earlier, the
organization that I work fordoes humanitarian aid and
disaster responseinternationally and nationally
as well.
One of the things that they'veimplemented is cash and voucher
assistance programming forpeople who go through, you know,
catastrophes like this andcrisis like this, because we
(32:19):
found, as an organization,obviously, that individuals know
what they need their money for,they know how to spend it for
themselves and their family, andwhile other things like you
know meal cards or you knowdepartment gift cards and things
like that are all good and fine, how are you going to pay your
rent or your daily motel rate ifthat's where you're staying
(32:41):
when you're displaced?
So CORE is actually encompassingnot just people who have lost
their homes, but also people whohave had their businesses
impacted by losing clients losttheir homes, but also people who
have had their businessesimpacted by losing clients or
they.
You know it was a region thatthey worked in close to their
home, or maybe they lostequipment.
You know that was at a house ora construction site that they
were working on and so thismoney is meant to help
(33:06):
supplement and kind of get themback on their feet while they
reestablish their business,potentially in a different
region or with new clients inthe same area, and so that has
been very significant in helpingthat community, both in the
Palisades and even fire areas.
Sean Knierim (33:21):
A lot of other organizations have offered
similar support.
Personally, I find myselffeeling guilty from time to time
where I was so focused on myfamily and those people around
us that there wasn't a lot oftime for us personally to be
supporting others.
The one place where we also sawsome like not only those like
(33:45):
the guy who helped with theproperty where we were living
lost 100% of his work in thatday.
The restaurants that showed upto help ended up losing not only
the contributions they weregiving to those of us that lost
our homes.
A lot of free meals wereoffered and not many people went
to the restaurants to eatduring that time because people
(34:06):
were hunkering down and didn'twant to go out.
I remember a lot of thoserestaurants, like I just wrote
about Milo and Olive.
For a while they didn't have Alot of those restaurants, like I
just wrote about Milo and Olivefor a while, they didn't have a
lot of people coming in.
So not only were they giving,they were also not receiving
from the community.
So I think there's still a neatopportunity for us to think
about.
How can we support if we haveto hire someone?
How can we find ways to drivework to people who were affected
(34:28):
, but also look at thosebusinesses in town that really
showed up for communities andfind ways to bring business to
them over time so that thecommunity gets to help them in
return and start replenishingwhat they have.
So we're ready to help eachother the next time.
Allan Marks (34:44):
Let me ask you a question too, because I mean I
know it's not in my family.
We've been through some thingsin the past.
You know people have lost ahome.
My uncle actually lived in theBel Air fire in 1961 when you
know several homes got destroyedon their block and you know
there's other traumas thatfamilies, all families, have
gone through.
But a disaster that'scommunity-wide is different
(35:08):
because it's affecting so manypeople all at the same time and
in some strikingly similar ways.
Does that then signal that theresponse to it whether it's
really well-coordinated or notmaybe more spontaneous, but that
the response to it is somehowalso maybe stronger and better
or capable of building moreresilience because the entire
(35:28):
community is affected?
Or is it just the scale of itis so massive that it just makes
that challenge more daunting?
Sean Knierim (35:34):
I think all the above is probably yes.
I think there's a lot to learnfrom this, to add to what we
know about other type ofdisasters and how to respond
with each other.
I mean something that I havenoticed a lot and I don't know
how much you hear this name ispeople who try and compare their
trauma and their experience toothers.
Like, well, I didn't lose myhouse, even though I know some
(35:54):
people who didn't lose theirhome that in some ways, were
affected more severely thanothers.
So, figuring out how, as acommunity, we can recognize that
some of us have lost thingsthat need support and have been
affected differently, but, atthe same time, how do we
acknowledge and honor whateveryone's feeling and be able
(36:16):
to support them in differentways?
I think that's something thatwe don't know how to do.
Well, we're always trying tocompare, like you're hurt worse
than mine, so therefore, I'mgoing to try and belittle what
I'm feeling, and I've seen thatin a lot of different people
throughout the community.
Nina Knierim (36:31):
Both Sean and I agree and a lot of different
people throughout the community.
Both Sean and I agree we do tryand at least not be so, you
know, emphatic about don't saythat, don't say that, but
explain why they should honortheir own trauma and their own
experience and their ownfeelings about what happened,
while still expressing, you know, sympathy or empathy or
(36:53):
whatever emotion or expressionthey're trying to give in a
particular context.
But yeah, it does happen quitea bit and some people get it
when you kind of slow down andexplain to them why we're all in
this together and why it's nota know, it's not a comparison,
as as Sean says, but just acollective, you know, experience
(37:17):
and a collective trauma that we, that we all have and are
sharing still, and there was oneother thing, a nuance that
might be interesting to explore.
Sean Knierim (37:24):
Throughout a lot of these, these podcasts, I
remember thanking people all thetime.
It was really important for meto be able to give gratitude, to
acknowledge what people broughtto us.
So often I heard people say no,no, no, it was nothing.
Oh yeah, that too, it's theleast I could do, that too, and
it's changing now, but in themoment I remember every time
that someone told me it wasnothing, it felt like it was
(37:47):
devaluing the gratitude I wastrying to give.
You're saying it's nothing, butfor me it's the most important
thing I've ever received.
I didn't own a t-shirt and nowthis is the only t-shirt and
you're telling me it's nothing.
But that to you it seemed likeyour gratitude was being
belittled it was, and I startedtrying to share with people,
(38:07):
especially groups that we'reworking a lot, spending a lot of
time with groups that we'reworking a lot, spending a lot of
time with.
I'm like please just say you'rewelcome and leave it at that.
Let us express our gratitude,our love, our tears.
But don't take that away andI'm pretty sure I do this all
the time because in this momentof community it wasn't nothing,
it wasn't the least you could do, it was the most you were able
(38:31):
to do at that moment and choseto.
Allan Marks (38:32):
That's right, yeah, what makes you the most hopeful
now?
Nina Knierim (38:41):
Both of us are.
I think it's a gift and I meanwe are at this place right now
to sort of lead the conversationand be part of the you know,
(39:01):
resilience, the moving forward,but the rebuilding of and even
building, I would say, buildingtrust in communities, across
industries, across areas thatmaybe wasn't there before.
So that makes me very hopeful.
(39:23):
Secondly, there's somethingthat comes good.
That is good because of adisaster like this People are
paying attention, their ears areopen, they want to know more,
they definitely don't want it tohappen to them and the people
who it happened to definitelydon't want it to happen to them
again.
(39:44):
So it is an opportune time to beable to spread this messaging
about, at least for me, more onthe side of resilience and
preparedness for the next event,because this is not the last
time we will, or thesecommunities will, be impacted by
some catastrophic event or someother disruption.
(40:05):
Maybe it's a long-term poweroutage, maybe it's, you know,
other types of events, but theywill be here and so knowing what
to do in those scenarios andtaking the experience that we
had makes me really hopeful.
You know that people will bemore prepared next time and that
(40:25):
and I see the work on theground.
I am very, very honored to beable to be in front of
communities, to speak at theYMCA or the Boys and Girls Club,
to be invited by localnonprofits and community-based
organizations because they trustus.
They trust us because we havethe expertise, trust us because
we have the experience but also—Real experience.
Allan Marks (40:46):
Real experience, personal experience.
Nina Knierim (40:48):
But also because people are also looking for
leaders.
But also because people arealso looking for leaders and I
would not identify myself as aleader so much in a general
context At work.
I am a leader and now I'm kindof finding myself put into this
sort of you know platformposition to carry this message,
(41:12):
hearing your voice emerge hasbeen extraordinary, both as
someone who loves you deeply butalso as someone who's looking
for hope in the community.
Sean Knierim (41:20):
To see voices like yours emerge, to see you on the
Today Show, PBS NewsHour, butalso talking with communities
around.
It's been remarkable seeing youand loving you and watching you
kind of lean into this momentand then seeing a lot of other
leaders around town from acrosssystems.
I think your point of trust isreally important, Like trust
(41:43):
becomes the currency of thisresilient Even more so now.
Allan Marks (41:48):
And trustworthiness too Seriously.
I think, one reason you are aleader is not just because you
do the things that leaders areexpected to do ordinarily in the
day job right Of setting avision, mobilizing people around
it in support of it andexecuting.
But now you're also, sadly, arole model.
Nina Knierim (42:05):
Wow, I didn't think of it that way, and that's
a different level of leadershiptoo.
Yeah, I didn't think of it thatway at all.
Sean Knierim (42:11):
And then, as I'm thinking of moments of hope,
seeing the community cometogether the way it did in a
city that might not have beenthought of as a really resilient
, cohesive giving city in LosAngeles.
Allan Marks (42:26):
But a phenomenally to watch, To my surprise.
A phenomenally is.
Sean Knierim (42:29):
It was extraordinary.
Like this feels like home now.
I don't know if I would havesaid that four months ago.
Like I love la, I love the factthat we've lived here.
This is a home to me now inways that few other places are
like.
I feel really rooted here and Ifeel a deep commitment to this
area and I know others that feelthat way.
Seeing the kids show up and dothings, to see how my daughter
(42:50):
showed up, to see the leadershipmy son has exhibited in in his
role, in what he's doing, andthen to see a lot of the other
young folks around town, inaltadena, in the palisades, but
high schools around the countrysending stuff here to be of
service.
It's, it's amazing and thisisn't just an la story.
(43:10):
I think the hope for me comesfrom seeing how this rippled
outside of this region in waysthat there are connections
established between sectors,industries, domains, geographies
, sizes of organizations thatdid not exist four months ago
and I think that bodes well forthe future strength of this
(43:31):
region.
Allan Marks (43:31):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
Both of you thank you forsharing so personally and openly
what you've gone through.
Nina, especially, thank you forbeing the guest on the first
episode for this.
Nina Knierim (43:41):
This is terrific, and Sean.
Allan Marks (43:43):
I know I look forward to future episodes of
Shared Ground where we canexplore this with others and
kind of see what they've gonethrough and what the lessons
might be for the future.
Sean Knierim (43:54):
Yeah, and to take this personal experience and be
able to broaden out and hearthat personal experience for
others and figure out how do wekeep grooving together into the
future.
Absolutely, it's a sharedground.
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