July 9, 2025 • 37 mins
When disaster strikes, who shows up? And who keeps showing up after the headlines fade?
In this episode of Shared Ground, Venice resident Jon Seidman joins Allan and Sean to talk about the quiet, enduring work of recovery after the Los Angeles fires.
We decided to release this on the 6-month anniversary of the January fires - listen to Jon's thoughts about how and when to lean in to understand why.
Jon didn’t just check in. He showed up. With his characteristic care and understated generosity, he offered not only a place to stay but something more lasting: a morning ritual built around exceptional coffee. As a passionate home roaster, John brought beans, brewing gear, and a simple gesture that reshaped Sean’s mornings. Together they made coffee, watched the moon set, and began to rebuild a sense of rhythm amid the rubble. (read more on Sean's substack: "Don't Drink Shitty Coffee")
But this story is not just about coffee.
Jon reflects on the emotional timeline of crisis. He talks about the surge of immediate support, the sudden quiet that follows, and the need to stay present long after the moment has passed. He shares insights from his time living in remote Costa Rica, where interdependence was not a value but a way of life. His reflections offer a contrast to how many communities approach care and crisis today.
This episode explores:
- How months 4 after a crisis may be harder than month 1...and why now would be a good time to reach out to anyone you know affected by the January fires
- How micro rituals can ground us during displacement
- What mutual aid looks like when it is quiet and real
- Why asking good questions matters more than giving advice
If you have ever wondered how to show up well for someone in pain—or how to let others show up for you—this conversation will stay with you.
Shared Ground is produced by Sean Knierim and Allan Marks. Thanks to Cory Grabow, Kara Poltor, Corey Walles (from The Recording Studio) for your support in launching this effort.
For more stories of resilience & rebuilding, kindness & generosity: visit shared-ground.com and subscribe to Sean's substack. We invite you to share your own stories of resilience at the Shared Ground website - whether in response to the January fires in LA or other situations.
Follow us at seanknierim.substack.com, Instagram, or wherever you listen to podcasts (Apple Podcasts, Spotify, etc).
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sean Knierim (00:00):
T oday we have Jon Seidman joining us, someone
who's been important to myfamily and to us as friends.
Jon, welcome, Thanks forjoining us today.
Thank you, Alan.
Thank you.
Jon Seidman (00:16):
Sean, and how do you pronounce your last name
again, because I never knew this?
Kniehrim K'nearum, Knierim.
Perfect, all right, good.
Allan Marks (00:22):
Now you've got it right, all right, great, you
could spell it.
I could probably E-I-I-E, noone knows, I'm an EI, so don't
worry about it.
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Sean Knierim (00:37):
So, Jon, as we're talking about this idea of
resilience, we're and inresponse to these fires, we saw
communities really rise up inoverwhelming ways with moments
of generosity, of kindness,without a lot of expectation for
reciprocity, and so we'reinviting in people that are part
of that and we'll talk aboutsome of the things you did with
us.
But, just in general, as you'rethinking of, you and your
(00:58):
family live here in Venice.
What was it like for you asthese fires were whipping up?
Can you remember back to thosedays in early January and share
with us what you rememberfeeling and seeing?
Jon Seidman (01:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
It was fascinating in the sensethat we didn't know whether to
pack and go, because we werewithin a few miles of where the
fires were, or to sit in frontof the TV and just watch this
disaster unfold down the street.
I guess there was nopreparation for it, if you will.
(01:30):
There was no, it was just kindof out of the blue.
And you know what can I do?
Who's affected, what's what's?
You know how do I prepare myfamily myself?
For me, it was one of thosemoments where, you know, you
harken back to like moments ofliving in modern society where
9-11 happens right and you'relike you're blown away by the
moment, and then you all of asudden get into these, like now
(01:51):
I got to do something kind ofthing, and then when COVID, when
everything shuts down, like youknow, these are these, these
sentinel moments that havehappened, that we've kind of
been brought into this traumaworld of expectation.
And I guess, as things haveunfolded over the past 25 years
from 9-11 to now and I meanagain we grew up.
(02:12):
You know we're all roughly thesame age in this really peaceful
period of time, like when wewere younger, you know we were
worried about things likequicksand and things like that
and guys in white vans.
You know these were the weirdurban legends.
And as it switched into all ofa sudden, these real traumatic
moments that were living throughthese historical pieces, that
(02:33):
for me this was that moment Ikind of got into this.
All right, fight or flight, youknow, I got to like, move in,
get, make sure my family's OK,then make sure my friends are OK
and the people that I know inthat space, because I have
something to offer and what Ihad at the time was I had space
for people to put things or liveor whatever they needed.
Sean Knierim (02:49):
I wanted to be, you know, part of that solution
and I remember we just had aconversation with my wife, Nina,
in the very first podcast thatwe talked about, and she and I
were discussing how many peoplereached out to us, how hard it
was to accept help, howimpossible it was to answer what
do you need?
And when you reached out to us,you were pretty specific about
(03:10):
this.
I don't know if you rememberI'm trying to remember about the
exact outreach but for somereason I actually took yours up
Like right away, right, becauseyou offered me space and you
offered some other stuff and wedidn't know each other really
well prior to this.
Allan Marks (03:24):
I feel like you're a good friend in my life, but it
came out of the last fourmonths Pause for a second on
that, though, because, sean,there's a lot of people in your
life you didn't know as wellbefore this fire and before the
experience.
It's not that you've lost oldfriends, but you've picked up
some new ones that aresurprisingly important in your
life.
I'm not sure that's.
I think it's worth pausing andnoting that.
Sean Knierim (03:43):
And it was a surprising experience and I
don't know if I would haveguessed who those people were.
There were some.
So on January 5th, if you askedwho's going to show up and
who's going to really be therefor you, I would have listed
some.
Not all of them would have madeit, um, but Jon, you and your
wife Kay are people that I.
I had been on that list and youwere part of a few pretty
important moments, so maybe wecan talk through a few of those
(04:04):
moments.
So we lived in 10 differentplaces within the first month
and a half of this right, andone morning you reached out to
me and you asked what kind ofcoffee was I drinking?
And do you remember thatmorning and how I responded and
what you did?
Jon Seidman (04:20):
I do, I do, and I'll start it off, and it's not
an altruistic thing.
I'm a coffee snob, yeah, andlet's start only with coffee.
No, no, I'm, trust me, I'm.
I'm a, I am a, a born, uh,diy-er.
Like, if there's a way.
Like my latest thing is ismaking fermented soda, like
that's my new hobby right now.
So I'm doing coffee and sodaand a bunch of other vices.
Allan Marks (04:41):
When you say making coffee too, you're not just
talking about, like you know,opening up a can.
Jon Seidman (04:44):
No, no, I source the beans from people that
actually grow the beans inspecific regions and specific
types of beans.
Green, I get them and then Iactually roast them to very
specific temperatures, you know.
But I'm not like I'm notweighing the preparation.
I'm very, you know, casual inthe preparation of it, but I'm
really particular about what Idrink.
(05:04):
I'm very, you know, casual inthe preparation of it, but I'm
really particular about what Idrink.
And I knew that everything wasgone for you.
I mean everything, like therewas nothing left of your life.
And you weren't the only personin my world that this happened
to, there were several others,and for me I was like all right.
So if I were in this situation,what would be important to me?
And it would probably begetting back into some kind of
routine, you know, and what canI do?
That's nice that nobody else isreally thinking of, you know.
(05:26):
I mean you don't need.
You kept saying I don't needmore clothes, I don't have
enough clothes, we've got allthe clothes we need.
And I'm like, cool, I don't.
Our sizes are very different,so I can't really help you that
much.
But coffee was a very easything and then I actually bought
you the proper drip, because Iknew that you're going to be
(05:46):
moving around a lot, so youwouldn't want a coffee maker,
and so I bought the right drip,and I think I even brought over
a grinder too, so you had thekit ready to go and you had
proper coffee.
Sean Knierim (05:58):
And then you came in and you're like Sean, I'm
going to show you how to make it, so you do it correctly.
So he sat and he, Alan, he, hepoured the perfect glass of
coffee through this thing, whichI never once replicated in the
four weeks.
Allan Marks (06:12):
I can show you again.
But he came over and he did it.
Sean Knierim (06:15):
You got to prime the ground first, to wait 30
seconds, and so every morning,cause this was a time when I was
waking up at four, 30 or fiveo'clock in the morning every day
.
I wasn't getting enough sleep,I was worn down and I was able
to make this coffee and go tothe roof of the place we were
staying at and watch the moon godown and the sun come up,
drinking coffee.
And the coffee was important,but it was always knowing that
(06:35):
it came from someone who caredenough about us.
It made that coffee and we'llput a picture up on the website
you shared that picture, thewebsite you shared that picture.
Allan Marks (06:42):
I remember when it happened, Jon.
You may not know this, but Ipinged you to see if you're okay
or something, and you sent me atext with the picture.
Just no people in it, just thecoffee on the roof with the moon
and the ocean in the background, and it was sort of a.
You know, it's interesting whenyou think of the horrors, that
not just that you've just gonethrough with this, people were
still going through with thatand for you to take the moment
you know, literally the cafepause, right, really take that
(07:04):
moment to stop and breathe.
Sean Knierim (07:07):
That was something that was, I think, pretty
helpful for you and that momentwas really important for like
each of the days and I think Ishared with both of you guys a
few of these I was doing videoupdates each day for my family
back home Cause I was trying totell my family coordinate
everything through my sister andbrother Please don't call me
every day asking me, because Idon't have space for this so I
was sharing these video updatesand that day and I love that
(07:27):
you're wearing a Patagonia hatin here I was wearing a
Patagonia jacket because I justwent into Patty the day before
and they took care of me and Iwas sobbing at Patagonia because
the coat that took care of mefor years I lost.
So I was sitting up there likeproduct placement video to
family, but it was with thecoffee and I talked about that
with people back home to letthem know that I was being taken
care of.
(07:48):
So it was important.
It didn't just help me, ithelped everybody in my family
know that folks were showing upto care for us.
Jon Seidman (07:54):
Well, it's also something interesting that that
happened.
One of the most importantthings that I've noticed as I've
gotten older is the like.
It's something I always askpeople that I care about.
You know, like, like, you know,because I'm like one of those
guys when things are tight andthe world kind of sucks, I have
a monkey brain at three o'clockin the morning, you know, and if
, like, something wakes me up,I'm there.
For you know, I'm up like and,and so you know you told me,
(08:17):
every single day, no matter whatI do, I'm up at four o'clock in
the morning and I'm call me,you know, because there's a
chance I might be up.
So for me, like, that check-inis always hey man, how are you
sleeping?
Like?
You know.
Like, are you getting to sleep,are you getting enough sleep?
Because it's kind of thebarometer that I've been
accustomed to to check in my ownlife If I'm sleeping well, then
I think things are in a calmplace.
Allan Marks (08:36):
Let me ask you a question though, Jon, because
what I know of you right isyou're a pretty intellectual guy
.
You're in your brain, you'rethinking about those coffee
grounds in innate detail.
For you, does caring come froma place of thought, or is it
just automatic?
Or is it an emotional drive?
Jon Seidman (08:53):
Kindness probably I don't ever think about.
It's not ever.
I'm not a saint by any meansand I'm not, you know I face
imposter syndrome like everybodyelse.
The reality of it is I don'tput ideals forward in my mind
and like kind of think about achessboard or anything like that
.
It's just kind of like the.
There's a few philosophies thatI live by, and one of them is
(09:14):
treat people the way you want tobe treated Like.
Show up for somebody the wayyou want to be shown up for.
I mean, that's really importantand there are people in my life
that have shown up for me andit's not the people you expect.
It's my mechanic, my carmechanic, who I adore, I love to
death, and I hang out with himand he doesn't let me pay half
the time because we've becomefriends and he's watched my kids
(09:35):
grow up and the whole thing.
My gardener, who is the youknow, a good friend of mine, who
on a Sunday when I needed arefrigerator move I knew he had
a pickup I was willing to payhim.
He's like no, I'd rather justhang out with you.
And so we had a drive to gopick up a washing machine or a
dryer somewhere and down here ata Best Buy somewhere, and he
just gave me his Sunday, didn'twant any money, didn't want
anything, but it's just becausewe hang out.
(09:56):
You know, I guess for me it'sjust this innate feeling of just
treating everybody the exactsame.
I don't care, you know, ifyou're Alan Marks and you're
Sean, and you know whoever isthe person sitting across the
table from me, they're just asimportant on this planet as I am
.
And the second thing is, youknow, it's kind of a morbid
feeling, but we're all going todie Like ultimately feeling, but
we're all going to die, likelike ultimately, by definition
(10:16):
of morbid feeling it is.
I mean, we're all going to dieat some point.
And what I don't want is a lifeof regret in any way, shape or
form, like that's that.
That to me is probably theworst thing that could ever
happen is to like go through mylife with regret and like
without the feeling that, likeBill Murray has kind of like
define this, this genre ofliving for me, you, me, and I
(10:37):
love the way that he shows upand the way he is in the world
and how we you know there's afew.
I'm a bit more, I guess, maybemore detail oriented in life.
But so, to answer your question, it's an innate feeling that
there's no prime or reason to it.
It's just important to me totreat everybody this way.
It's your way of being human,it's my way of being human.
I, that's my way of being human.
I don't know any other way.
And people in my life havegiven me so much and I've never
(11:01):
been able to give them anythingin return, you know, except the
experience of being together.
Sean Knierim (11:06):
Do they refuse to accept things, or is it just
impossible to figure out what togive to them?
Jon Seidman (11:19):
No, I think I've learned to just say thank you.
Sean Knierim (11:20):
When somebody's being nice, you know when
somebody wants to do it.
I think I've learned to justsay thank you.
When somebody's being nice, youknow.
When somebody wants to do it.
I think I've learned to justsay thank you, and we've talked
about that in in a prior episode, about how many people when you
try and thank them at leastduring the last few months, I
would hear it was nothing.
It's the least I can do, don'tworry about it.
And it's like well, but you'reinvalidating.
Are you invalidating mygratitude?
It's like just say, just sayyou're invalidating.
Are you invalidating mygratitude?
It's like just say you'rewelcome, because each time I
heard that, I remember, at leastwhen I was in the moment.
Allan Marks (11:42):
There's something else you heard from a lot of
people that you shared with me.
When you would thank people forthings that they would say we
got you.
Sean Knierim (11:49):
Yeah, we got you was one of the things I heard
that we heard that a lot as youreflect on what you saw in the
LA community.
Everyone kind of came togetherAnything that surprised you of
what you saw here.
I mean, you've been a longtimeresident of Los Angeles, right,
Were you surprised at how thecommunity came together in the
last few months?
Jon Seidman (12:08):
To me, I think it's actually, you know, when it's
not about the now or even theimmediate after.
I'm way more like whensomething happens, like
obviously I want to take care ofit in the moment, but I think
where my specialty is is comingin later and being like hey, you
know like this happened.
You know how are you six monthslater Like what's going on?
You know, are you sleeping?
(12:28):
Okay, you know, is there?
Is there anything I can helpyou with now?
Because I knew that you weregoing to get inundated with
people that wanted to help andall kinds of things that they
could offer.
I had material things that Icould offer, which was space and
a guest house that was sittingempty.
Sean Knierim (12:45):
Which we took you up on.
We stored as like.
For a brief moment, to quoteSean Penn, we were briefly
liberated from the tyranny ofpossessions.
I had three and a half Subarus,Subaru worth of stuff, two of
which ended up getting stored inyour place, and we then tried
to steal some of your wife'sclothing when we brought the
stuff back.
But that was really important.
(13:07):
But say more about the longhaul.
Jon Seidman (13:10):
Well, I mean, the moment is easy, you know, the
moment's really easy to get.
It's almost reflexive.
Of course, it's like, you know,you're caught up in the emotion
of it and you know it's thatinstant rush of almost social
media being.
You know, I always used to putthis tag when I was really
active on social media, which Inever really was.
But you know my fake Instagramlife, because you're catching
(13:30):
these snapshots of veryunrealistic pieces of it.
What I saw and where I feel isit's now it's three, four, six
months after this.
This upheaval is where peopleare really going to need the
support to like, you know, whereit's not sexy anymore, it's not
fun to like, hey, I'm helpingthis guy with the fire stuff.
You know it's like.
(13:55):
You know, now it's like thesharks are moving in and the
predators are coming in and it'syou know, it's the rebuild, and
this is where all the confusionand the anger and the bad
energy is really going to comeinto play.
But the people, the victimsthat you know, are still going
to have all this pent up likenon-resoluted emotion.
Sean Knierim (14:07):
And I think there's another piece too, that
there's a lot of activity that'shappening for those that have
to rebuild, for those of us thatare renting, that might need to
go find another place, butthere's also a quietude.
All of a sudden it gets quiet.
You've got a Wednesday nightsitting at home and nothing to
do, and for me, if I'm moving, Iknow how to deal with crisis, I
know how to react and respond.
(14:27):
I don't know how to sit quietlywith my own emotions, and
that's where I think, havingtrusted friends that can show up
for you, do you think you?
Allan Marks (14:34):
would have had that lesson if it weren't for the
fire.
If it weren't for the fire,would you have realized that I
knew?
Sean Knierim (14:38):
this lesson for a long, long time.
What's interesting?
I mean?
In fact, in some ways, I'vespent the last 10 years actively
working to get my brain out ofcrisis mode and slow down and
get to homeostasis, as some inthe performance community would
say right, and when thishappened I was able to lock back
in.
I have things to take care of.
I got to move.
I know I need and this is funnywhen you're thinking action.
(15:00):
I know I need to sleep, eat,nutrition.
Can I get some physicalactivity?
Can I be around community.
I know the things that arerequired to take care of myself,
but I can get active in doingthose things to more quickly or
kind of ease back in to quietreflection it's scary.
Allan Marks (15:20):
I want to blow that up for a second.
Maybe each of you think of it,certainly, Jon, your thoughts,
because what, Jon, you justdescribed is a very personal
process.
And we look at community, thinkcommunity resilience, right.
There's often like this frenzyof apparent action where people
are trying to rebuild quicklybecause everybody wants to go
back to the way it was, which is, of course, not possible.
(15:41):
But you're going to go back tosomething and what you're going
to go back to will either havesome of the same vulnerabilities
or it will be better.
In some ways.
It will certainly be different,and not all of that frenzied
activity that people are goingthrough at the beginning of it
result in the better solution.
Sometimes activity that peopleare going through at the
beginning of it result in thebetter solution, sometimes a
(16:03):
process that would allow formore of a pause and a collective
consultation, if you will,which we just don't build into
the system might be moreefficacious.
Jon Seidman (16:10):
I don't know if you've got a sense of it's funny
you brought that up because Iparallel it with my own life in
a sense, where you, you know,I'm 55.
So you know, I'm in the throesof middle age, if you will, or
whatever you want to call it.
The next chapter is I have twokids, one going to college this
fall, another who's going to bea senior in college, and so
we're looking, you know, downthe barrel of an empty nest and
(16:31):
kind of this idea of all thisspace and time that happened
where my mind share was so muchof my kids and raising my kids
and being a parent and makingsure that I was doing everything
, right or wrong, or lettingthem fail or not letting them
fail, or whatever the mode wasof the day.
Sean Knierim (16:49):
And enjoying a lot of that time and being defined
by that's what.
Allan Marks (16:52):
I want to do.
Jon Seidman (16:53):
I've seen you as a father and learning that hard
lesson of when to step back andallow the space or allow the
risk and understand, when youhave two kids, that they're
completely different animalsbetween the two of them, and
there's no, I can't raise onethe same way I'm raising the
other.
They're just different people,you know.
And switching from parent tocoach because that's where I'm
at now with my relationship withthese kids and so what you're
(17:15):
saying is taking that pause, andI've taken a pause in life, if
you will, for a little bit,emotionally, kind of like.
I lived a very busy life beforeand I always, growing up, I was
like, wow, if you travel forwork, you're successful, like
that was a definition of successto me.
It wasn't a monetary numberthat sounds painfully familiar,
(17:36):
but it was like if you travelfor work, you are successful,
that's it, that's the ultimate.
And you know, I lived for somany years in a very busy life
of like, of filling my time andhaving all of these things, and
then all of a sudden, lifeslowed down for me, and
professionally too, and so thatpause that I had in my being
(17:57):
professionally and as a parentmimics exactly what you just
described, where I'm able tolike regroup and kind of, you
know, morph into, hopefully, thenext chapter of the person that
I like, want to grow, actuallytake time to workshop and think
(18:21):
tank the next phase, instead ofimmediately jumping into
building the same again or thenew again, or the new same again
or whatever they're doing.
It would have lasting benefitsthroughout time.
But again, time is money.
Allan Marks (18:38):
Now there's also the.
I remember during COVID when wewere all sort of stopped right.
I remember actually in ourneighborhood a lot of people
left and so it was eerily quietand we would go outside and walk
the dog and there were birds,there were no cars, the city
sounds were all different too.
Sean Knierim (18:55):
What kind of dog are you walking to paint the
picture for the reader?
Allan Marks (18:58):
Paint the picture, that was our poodle, a poodle,
okay, she was sweet, she wasvery sweet.
A sweet poodle, yeah, sweet andsmart.
She sadly passed away about ayear and a half ago but yeah,
but she, yeah, we'd be walkingand there was more time.
I mean it was terrible, I think, for our daughter to have to
miss a year or two of highschool by learning remotely.
(19:19):
But it was a wonderful surprisethat we had family dinners with
our teenager every night almostfor two years, which is kind of
remarkable.
But when we came out of COVID'sisolation and all that vaccines
and businesses reopened andthings I don't know they went
back to normal, but they wentback to something closer to
normal.
There was, people had forgottenhow to deal with each other.
(19:41):
They'd forgotten basic socialskills how to drive, how to say
thank you, how to say you'rewelcome, right?
What is this public space?
Again, there's other people init.
All of a sudden, I wonder whatkind of lessons, coming back
from a natural disaster like uh,like the fires that we've seen,
both in in in the west side, inthe palestinians, but also in
uh, the eden canyon fire in uh,with a very different community,
(20:03):
with those also profoundlyaffected, with thousands of
homes lost in altadena.
I'm wondering what you thinkthe new normal would be after a
community, even a city of thissize, goes through that kind of
a collective trauma.
Sean Knierim (20:16):
I think I've watched teenage kids in Zoom
school for the last few monthswho are going to be returning to
an in-person they're calling itPali South at the Sears
building in Santa Monica andthey were able to come together
in kind of the Zoom rules.
They all fit back into thatrhythm and routine, including
the teachers did a remarkablejob coming back.
But there weren't pods the waythey were before.
(20:38):
You weren't quarantined, sothey were able to kind of move
in and among and make the best.
This was kind of the COVIDexperience that they wished they
had.
Right Like my daughter and herfriends were able to be together
, watching them come back into abuilding is going to be really
interesting.
Hearing the experience of mydaughter's friends who moved
quickly to other schools andthem being the outlier, them
(20:59):
being the other in a school thathad just come from something
and they're trying to integratethemselves into a rhythm of high
school that had been there fora while.
It's hard to be different inhigh school unless you're
actively trying to be different,and I'm thinking of the wider
community.
Now when you go to therestaurant, the coffee shop, the
grocery store, many of us arestill people who lost homes and
(21:21):
are bringing those bags back todifferent refrigerators from the
ones that melted wherever theyused to be.
But at what point do youacknowledge that this happened
to you and it's different fordifferent people.
Like my son wanted us to stoptalking about the fires.
Two weeks after the fire, shegoes, dad, we gotta stop.
We gotta stop asking for stuff,and for me it's still such a
(21:41):
real present thing.
It's hard for me.
I find myself it's hard to havea conversation without
mentioning yeah, this just camethrough, um, it also.
Jon Seidman (21:49):
I mean sorry to interrupt, but the idea that
like as the traditional man ofthe house, right, you know, I
mean, I know your wife's abadass, you know I'm not a
traditional man yet Correct.
You've seen my house, but wehave a role, yeah, and, and, and
, and.
No matter what we do, you knowas, as, as the father, the dad,
the male you want to fix.
You know what I mean, and soyou through the ultimate holy
(22:13):
shit moment.
You know what I mean.
We're swearing in this podcast.
Sean Knierim (22:17):
We just made that decision.
Oh, absolutely.
Allan Marks (22:20):
But I want to pause on that for a second, because
what's being?
It's not so much that thestereotypical dad couldn't fix
the problem, it's that thestereotypical dad puts it on
himself to believe that that'shis role, whether anybody else
in the family agrees with thator not.
Right, and therefore feels bad.
Maybe, sean I don't know ifthat you'd failed to fix it,
even though maybe theexpectation was frankly not
(22:41):
there and the desire may nothave been there either, for you
to try to play that.
Sean Knierim (22:43):
Yeah, I have a story and it's interesting to me
too, having these conversationswhere we want to pull out and
think about the wider communityand, Jon, we want to hear about
your time in other countriesworking with different
communities.
But I'm still looking throughstraws on the experience that
I'm in right now.
Like I remember the fourth dayin a row I woke up super early
in the morning before I got tothe coffee you shared with us.
(23:03):
It was five days in a row welost lease offers where we
thought we had a house, areplacement house For whatever
reason.
Our new rental because we werein our.
This was our ninth rental placefor collectively, for our
family, and we didn't know if wewere going to get the one.
That day we were excited tooffer way more money than I ever
thought I would offer for rentfor a place with no dishwasher,
(23:26):
a crappy range.
I would not be able to bake,bake my bread.
There's no someone livingupstairs that they wouldn't
introduce us to before sign.
And I remember and I was like Iam failing at getting my family
shelter, I am failing, and ninastopped me and this was like
like I came crying into thebedroom right and she's like
sean, it's first of all, it'snot you, it's us, which was a
(23:48):
very kind thing to say, eventhough I didn't believe her,
like deep down, right To thepoint you just made.
Jon and both of us at thatmoment, I mean, this is how we
were thinking it through.
It's like we're going to haveto give this over to God.
We're going to have to let God,we're going to have to trust.
And it was later that day, thatwas the next day after we moved
(24:09):
to another place, that wewalked in and a friend offered
us the place that we get to bein now.
But it was profoundlyunsettling not to be able to
provide that stability to afamily, like in feeling the
responsibility.
Allan Marks (24:22):
But then how did it feel when you finally let go
and said oh did you, I'm goingto trust it to.
Sean Knierim (24:27):
God or whatever.
So it let me take a breath.
It let me.
We have someone we're going totalk to here, dan Dworkis, who
works with a lot of firstresponders.
He described it.
The best I've heard so far isthat inside of many of us
there's just a pool, a well ofemotions, yeah, and there's all
kinds of emotions in there andI'm hoping there's like joy and
(24:48):
euphoria or somewhere, but Ithink they have a higher
specific gravity and havedropped.
But it's not hard for something.
Anything that's added will makeit overflow, and so these
things were.
So we were able to take abreath and we say it when we're
focused.
My wife and I say three prayerstogether every single morning,
which has been a beautifulritual that we've started in the
last seven years, and I wasable to take a breath.
(25:10):
I was able to feel a little bitmore at ease, a little bit not
under control, but more able tosurf the nutty world that we
were facing, and it let me be abetter father to my kids when I
walked downstairs and they wokeup.
So I was able to take thatbreath.
Allan Marks (25:27):
Yeah, and there's a connection between being better
for yourself and being better,being more available and more
responsible for others.
Sean Knierim (25:32):
Yeah, the metaphor really works of you have to put
your own air mask on before youtake care of the person next to
you and get theirs on.
Yeah, I agree with that.
Allan Marks (25:41):
Which is an analogy that brings you back to travel
for a second, because, Jon,you've lived overseas as well.
Do other countries or societiesthat you've lived in do a
better job of this?
Jon Seidman (25:51):
I'll say that it's more innate in their being than
it is here.
I lived in throughout the 90sfor 11 years, in the most remote
area of Costa Rica and you know, prior to 1993, 94, there was a
six-month road.
So I lived in a community thatwas completely isolated in the
(26:13):
southern zone and the OsaPeninsula, on the bottom half of
it, where if you wanted to getthere in the rainy season you
had to either fly or take a busto a town across a gulf and then
take an hour long ferry ride orfly in.
You know if the weather wasgood enough to fly in, because
the roads were completelyknocked out because of the
bridges and the rain Disasterswere a dime a dozen.
(26:34):
You know what I mean.
Like you know whether it waslike a child getting bit by a
Fertilance.
You know a Viper and thecommunity having to come
together to get her to where sheneeds to be because we're so
remote to come together to gether to where she needs to be
because we're so remote to.
You know, two and a half weeksof solid downpour and every
(26:57):
bridge, every road is washed out.
You know and you know there'sno drinking water, there's no
food really available andeverybody is broke to begin with
.
So what I noticed was, you know, everybody just kind of like
nobody, stuck to their ownbeings back then.
There I can't speak for whatit's like now because they have
TV and phones and all the otherthings and electricity, but back
then it was this incredible,like we were all shared
(27:19):
experience of going throughsomething and it was.
It was not just community wascommunal, it was communal.
It was communal, it wascommunal and it was.
It was people checking on eachother because that's what you
had to do.
And yeah, so, you know, living,living that remotely prior has
trained me, I guess, in some way, shape or form, to understand.
You know, an hour or two hoursaway from where you are, you
(27:53):
know you have to deal with it.
Like I've had my leg split openfrom.
You know, a surfboard accident.
I pulled a good friend of mineout of the water who died.
You know he drowned and youknow there was a group of us who
were all surfing together andhe's gone and his board sticking
straight up.
Yeah, yeah, but I mean it wasall part of the experience.
I can't, you know, can't goback on it.
You learn how to deal veryquickly in the moment.
(28:16):
There's no, there's no room forerror, there's no stopping to
think about the situation thatyou have to live on instinct and
you have to be able to react inthis in the moment, because
these are life or deathsituations, and then you have to
move forward with your decisionand stay completely, you know,
to that point.
Sean Knierim (28:31):
Can I let me pull out something that you said a
little bit earlier in that flowof you have to decide to be calm
, and then you talked a lotabout learning how to work
within these moments of crisis.
It's something that you gothrough and you learn from.
Did you always have the abilityto decide to be calm?
Can anyone decide to be calm,or is that something that you
(28:51):
learn?
Is it something that you haveinnately?
Can you talk a little bit about?
Jon Seidman (28:54):
that no-transcript, something that is there more
than it's something you learn,because it's a reaction, it's,
it's an instinct, it's a youknow it's, it's a, it's, it's a
sense that you have.
I don't think it's somethingthat you can kind of pull out of
train yourself I, I don't know.
Allan Marks (29:13):
I mean let me.
But let me make a distinction,because you're using the word
calm and I'm not sure that's theword that you're just.
What you're describing it'sequanimity, it it's balance,
it's clarity and it's thatperspective allows you not to
rush or hurry in any kind of apanic.
You're able to modulate.
It's not a numbness, it's not aslowness either.
No, but it's what you need to doin a way which is very clear
(29:33):
and maybe methodical, maybepaced, but it's what the
situation demands, withouthistrionics getting in the way.
Yes, and it's also the it'sflow.
Jon Seidman (29:42):
It's higher, it's flow.
Allan Marks (29:43):
It's not exactly, it's the higher state of being
and I'll give you an example.
It's Kareem coming in with thisguy hook and in his own brain
it takes three minutes and therest of us watch it happen in
two seconds, correct, yeah?
Jon Seidman (30:03):
You know, or it's of being that, it's just.
I don't care what he's saying,it's the flow that I'm watching,
that I'm completely mesmerizedby how somebody can be so
comfortable in that moment.
And and for me, you know, I'vebeen in some very traumatic
experiences.
So I don't know if I ever toldyou, but one experience I had
was I was, I was flying from, Iflew from LA to New York, new
York and I was flying to BuenosAires.
And it was this was two months,three months after 9-11.
(30:25):
And I was filming my first TVshow, right, and so we're
filming magicians in BuenosAires.
And so the flight from LA to NewYork got delayed because of
mechanical problems on the plane, but it was the same plane that
was going to Buenos Aires.
We get stuck in New York, spendthe night in New York, I'm from
New York.
The next day I get up, get tothe airport, get on my plane and
I'm sitting in the emergencyrow seat.
(30:46):
I had been in a plane crashyears earlier with my wife in
Panama, and so I always traveledwith this little thing of
Valium, right, just in case.
I never took it back then.
You're just having it itselfwith me, that's all I needed.
I needed to know that it was inthe front pocket and I still
have the same exact containerfrom 1996 or whenever it was, or
98, 99, whenever we got in ourplane crash and I got my first
(31:09):
prescription for this stuff andI travel with it still to this
day and it's old Valium too,Valiumless-less yes.
It still works, I think,regardless.
We're on this plane, we'reflying over the Caribbean and
it's one of those olddouble-decker planes 757, 47.
, 47, yeah, yeah, old though andall of a sudden the cabin fills
(31:30):
with smoke.
Right, and this is like.
I've already been in a planecrash.
This is my worst nightmare.
This is it Like I'm living.
It Captain comes on, says guys,we have an emergency, we have to
dump the fuel.
We're going to fly, you know,100 feet over the ocean.
We're going to prepare thecabin for an emergency water
landing.
Okay, I'm like, oh my Lord,you're losing it.
You know, like, but Iimmediately took five Valium,
five, five.
(31:51):
But you're a big guy, big guy,but regardless, that's a lot.
Whatever it did, it centered upand was working with the flight
attendant on the other side,because our flight attendant was
completely lost and scared.
People were crying, kids.
We had to move people, movebaggage.
This woman could not open thedoor.
It was all of those things,yeah, and as intense as it was,
(32:12):
and the planes filled with smokeand the wings are opening up
and all the fuel's pouring outinto the Caribbean, and now
we're 100 feet over the ocean,but you can smell probably.
Allan Marks (32:19):
Oh yeah, you totally smell that when that
much food is being dumped.
Jon Seidman (32:22):
We were going.
I don't know, I remember thesmell of people.
Allan Marks (32:26):
It was the pheromones of people.
Jon Seidman (32:27):
That was like.
I remember how I smell.
That's funny.
You say that because I wentinto flow, I went into this
higher flow.
In that moment, this calmnesscame over me, I was completely
at peace.
And you know, the captain'stalking us through this.
He's like, hey, we're, you knowwe're gonna go into the ocean
and did it all this time, andyou know, and finally
everything's cleared up and withabout four minutes left, I sit
(32:48):
down in my seat and I'm takingthe position that we're supposed
to be taking and there's a guynext to me and two people, two
men that we put in the seats infront of us, and and there's a
phone in the front.
You know, they all had thosephones I grab the phone and I
swipe my credit card and I'dcall my wife Like the worst
thing I possibly could have done.
She answers the phone and she'slike what, what?
What?
You know, she knows.
Like she immediately, like wewere in tune, like we're pretty
(33:09):
well synced together and sheknew something was wrong,
because she knew I was on aplane flying.
And I'm like honey, I don'tknow what's going to happen, but
we're about to go into theocean.
I just want you to know I loveyou.
And I told her that and I hungup this call Worst thing I
probably could have done ever.
Yeah now she's really, reallyworried.
Yeah Well, she calls my sister.
My sister and her call AmericanAirlines get moved right up the
(33:29):
food chain because they knowthis is happening and they're
like you know, how do you knowthis information?
So they talk them throughwhat's happening.
We ended up hobbling intoPuerto Rico so and just, we
didn't make a water.
We did not make the water youwould have known if we made a
water but we made it into puertorico.
But where I'm going with this isit's that, it's that, it's that
flow of being in the moment,like there were other people
(33:51):
that were panicking and freakingout and and I did not go there.
I went the exact oppositedirection, like, okay, I have
something to do, these peopleneed help and I, you know, I,
I'm in a position where I canhelp them and and and I need to,
you know, go into this mode andI just went.
I don't, I didn't think aboutanything, I didn't anticipate, I
(34:11):
didn't, there was no thoughtprocess, everything was on full
high flow.
Sean Knierim (34:16):
So as we kind of transition back to Los Angeles
and kind of is coming towardsthe conclusion of this
conversation, that's, in themoment of crisis, you really, I
think, astutely pointed to thefact we're moving into a
different phase of the crisisdown here in Los Angeles, where
this is the long slog.
How do we get into flow, orcommunity flow or individual?
(34:37):
I don't even know if it's flow,but what is it that's going to
help enable this continuedresiliency of community during
this long?
What do you think we need inorder to be there for each other
over the next month?
Any ideas?
It's?
Jon Seidman (34:53):
such a kooky environment right now.
To begin with that, evenwithout the juxtaposition, so
maybe we're still in crisis.
We are.
I mean, I think there's a lotof people that would say we are
in crisis.
And you know, there was ahousing crisis and an
affordability crisis in LosAngeles way before the fires.
The fires didn't do any, youknow.
They didn't make it easier.
You know they literallydisplaced, you know, a hundred
(35:16):
thousand people who were livingin homes, who could afford them,
or barely afford them, whateverthe circumstances were, and now
they're homeless.
Really, at the end of the day.
Yeah, I don't know if I give itenough thought.
I think it's just going to beindividuals who step up and do
things.
I mean, I actually like, Ithink there's a lot of potential
for heroes to come out of this,but I don't know how we kind of
(35:37):
move ourselves.
I don't know how we kind ofmove ourselves.
I mean, I'm just hoping thatthere's some integrity in the
way things are kind of dividedup.
Sean Knierim (35:47):
next, and I don't have a lot of faith in that.
So I think you did offer ussomething towards the beginning
of this conversation aboutreaching out to people you know
and asking them how they'redoing, asking them but in a
really specific way How'd yousleep last night?
So not just how you're doing,which is kind of sometimes
difficult to answer if you don'tknow how you're doing, but then
(36:08):
to provide the specificity howare you sleeping, how are you
doing Like, have you connectedwith friends?
So I think that offer offriendship whether or not
they're going to take you up onit, I think is a really powerful
takeaway for anyone listeningto this and something that could
really be helpful to someone, Ithink it's important to do that
with just, I mean, and withstrangers too.
Allan Marks (36:26):
It's this idea of thinking of community building
as the new friendships youtalked about before, yeah, the
extended ones, I mean that's, weare all in this together.
Yes, and we need to be, Jon,thank you so much for taking the
time to get together with us.
Sean Knierim (36:46):
I hope I provided some sort of entertainment and
you know voice in theconversation.
You've certainly providedfriendship and support to people
around you.
You did to my family, I think,for those listening here,
they're definitely going to takesome wisdom from these and some
enjoyment from the stories youshared with us.
So thank you, and as we'removing through these episodes,
you know we thank you forjoining us to listen to this
conversation that Alan and Ijust had with Jon.
We hope you keep tuning in aswe explore different ways that
(37:08):
resilience is exposing itselfaround this town and different
ideas for how we might be ableto strengthen that resilience
and be there for each other.
This has been Shared Ground.
I'm Allan Marks, thank you, andI'm Sean Knierim, and we're
really grateful to be here withy'all.
Thanks very much, thank you.
This has been another episodeof Shared Ground, a podcast
(37:29):
about resilience and community.
Allan Marks (37:31):
Follow us on your favorite platform or learn more
at sharedgroundcom.
Sean Knierim (37:36):
That's shared-ground.
com.
T oday we have Jon Seidman joining us, someone
who's been important to myfamily and to us as friends.
Jon, welcome, Thanks forjoining us today.
Thank you, Alan.
Thank you.
Jon Seidman (00:16):
Sean, and how do you pronounce your last name
again, because I never knew this?
Kniehrim K'nearum, Knierim.
Perfect, all right, good.
Allan Marks (00:22):
Now you've got it right, all right, great, you
could spell it.
I could probably E-I-I-E, noone knows, I'm an EI, so don't
worry about it.
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Sean Knierim (00:37):
So, Jon, as we're talking about this idea of
resilience, we're and inresponse to these fires, we saw
communities really rise up inoverwhelming ways with moments
of generosity, of kindness,without a lot of expectation for
reciprocity, and so we'reinviting in people that are part
of that and we'll talk aboutsome of the things you did with
us.
But, just in general, as you'rethinking of, you and your
(00:58):
family live here in Venice.
What was it like for you asthese fires were whipping up?
Can you remember back to thosedays in early January and share
with us what you rememberfeeling and seeing?
Jon Seidman (01:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
It was fascinating in the sensethat we didn't know whether to
pack and go, because we werewithin a few miles of where the
fires were, or to sit in frontof the TV and just watch this
disaster unfold down the street.
I guess there was nopreparation for it, if you will.
(01:30):
There was no, it was just kindof out of the blue.
And you know what can I do?
Who's affected, what's what's?
You know how do I prepare myfamily myself?
For me, it was one of thosemoments where, you know, you
harken back to like moments ofliving in modern society where
9-11 happens right and you'relike you're blown away by the
moment, and then you all of asudden get into these, like now
(01:51):
I got to do something kind ofthing, and then when COVID, when
everything shuts down, like youknow, these are these, these
sentinel moments that havehappened, that we've kind of
been brought into this traumaworld of expectation.
And I guess, as things haveunfolded over the past 25 years
from 9-11 to now and I meanagain we grew up.
(02:12):
You know we're all roughly thesame age in this really peaceful
period of time, like when wewere younger, you know we were
worried about things likequicksand and things like that
and guys in white vans.
You know these were the weirdurban legends.
And as it switched into all ofa sudden, these real traumatic
moments that were living throughthese historical pieces, that
(02:33):
for me this was that moment Ikind of got into this.
All right, fight or flight, youknow, I got to like, move in,
get, make sure my family's OK,then make sure my friends are OK
and the people that I know inthat space, because I have
something to offer and what Ihad at the time was I had space
for people to put things or liveor whatever they needed.
Sean Knierim (02:49):
I wanted to be, you know, part of that solution
and I remember we just had aconversation with my wife, Nina,
in the very first podcast thatwe talked about, and she and I
were discussing how many peoplereached out to us, how hard it
was to accept help, howimpossible it was to answer what
do you need?
And when you reached out to us,you were pretty specific about
(03:10):
this.
I don't know if you rememberI'm trying to remember about the
exact outreach but for somereason I actually took yours up
Like right away, right, becauseyou offered me space and you
offered some other stuff and wedidn't know each other really
well prior to this.
Allan Marks (03:24):
I feel like you're a good friend in my life, but it
came out of the last fourmonths Pause for a second on
that, though, because, sean,there's a lot of people in your
life you didn't know as wellbefore this fire and before the
experience.
It's not that you've lost oldfriends, but you've picked up
some new ones that aresurprisingly important in your
life.
I'm not sure that's.
I think it's worth pausing andnoting that.
Sean Knierim (03:43):
And it was a surprising experience and I
don't know if I would haveguessed who those people were.
There were some.
So on January 5th, if you askedwho's going to show up and
who's going to really be therefor you, I would have listed
some.
Not all of them would have madeit, um, but Jon, you and your
wife Kay are people that I.
I had been on that list and youwere part of a few pretty
important moments, so maybe wecan talk through a few of those
(04:04):
moments.
So we lived in 10 differentplaces within the first month
and a half of this right, andone morning you reached out to
me and you asked what kind ofcoffee was I drinking?
And do you remember thatmorning and how I responded and
what you did?
Jon Seidman (04:20):
I do, I do, and I'll start it off, and it's not
an altruistic thing.
I'm a coffee snob, yeah, andlet's start only with coffee.
No, no, I'm, trust me, I'm.
I'm a, I am a, a born, uh,diy-er.
Like, if there's a way.
Like my latest thing is ismaking fermented soda, like
that's my new hobby right now.
So I'm doing coffee and sodaand a bunch of other vices.
Allan Marks (04:41):
When you say making coffee too, you're not just
talking about, like you know,opening up a can.
Jon Seidman (04:44):
No, no, I source the beans from people that
actually grow the beans inspecific regions and specific
types of beans.
Green, I get them and then Iactually roast them to very
specific temperatures, you know.
But I'm not like I'm notweighing the preparation.
I'm very, you know, casual inthe preparation of it, but I'm
really particular about what Idrink.
(05:04):
I'm very, you know, casual inthe preparation of it, but I'm
really particular about what Idrink.
And I knew that everything wasgone for you.
I mean everything, like therewas nothing left of your life.
And you weren't the only personin my world that this happened
to, there were several others,and for me I was like all right.
So if I were in this situation,what would be important to me?
And it would probably begetting back into some kind of
routine, you know, and what canI do?
That's nice that nobody else isreally thinking of, you know.
(05:26):
I mean you don't need.
You kept saying I don't needmore clothes, I don't have
enough clothes, we've got allthe clothes we need.
And I'm like, cool, I don't.
Our sizes are very different,so I can't really help you that
much.
But coffee was a very easything and then I actually bought
you the proper drip, because Iknew that you're going to be
(05:46):
moving around a lot, so youwouldn't want a coffee maker,
and so I bought the right drip,and I think I even brought over
a grinder too, so you had thekit ready to go and you had
proper coffee.
Sean Knierim (05:58):
And then you came in and you're like Sean, I'm
going to show you how to make it, so you do it correctly.
So he sat and he, Alan, he, hepoured the perfect glass of
coffee through this thing, whichI never once replicated in the
four weeks.
Allan Marks (06:12):
I can show you again.
But he came over and he did it.
Sean Knierim (06:15):
You got to prime the ground first, to wait 30
seconds, and so every morning,cause this was a time when I was
waking up at four, 30 or fiveo'clock in the morning every day
.
I wasn't getting enough sleep,I was worn down and I was able
to make this coffee and go tothe roof of the place we were
staying at and watch the moon godown and the sun come up,
drinking coffee.
And the coffee was important,but it was always knowing that
(06:35):
it came from someone who caredenough about us.
It made that coffee and we'llput a picture up on the website
you shared that picture, thewebsite you shared that picture.
Allan Marks (06:42):
I remember when it happened, Jon.
You may not know this, but Ipinged you to see if you're okay
or something, and you sent me atext with the picture.
Just no people in it, just thecoffee on the roof with the moon
and the ocean in the background, and it was sort of a.
You know, it's interesting whenyou think of the horrors, that
not just that you've just gonethrough with this, people were
still going through with thatand for you to take the moment
you know, literally the cafepause, right, really take that
(07:04):
moment to stop and breathe.
Sean Knierim (07:07):
That was something that was, I think, pretty
helpful for you and that momentwas really important for like
each of the days and I think Ishared with both of you guys a
few of these I was doing videoupdates each day for my family
back home Cause I was trying totell my family coordinate
everything through my sister andbrother Please don't call me
every day asking me, because Idon't have space for this so I
was sharing these video updatesand that day and I love that
(07:27):
you're wearing a Patagonia hatin here I was wearing a
Patagonia jacket because I justwent into Patty the day before
and they took care of me and Iwas sobbing at Patagonia because
the coat that took care of mefor years I lost.
So I was sitting up there likeproduct placement video to
family, but it was with thecoffee and I talked about that
with people back home to letthem know that I was being taken
care of.
(07:48):
So it was important.
It didn't just help me, ithelped everybody in my family
know that folks were showing upto care for us.
Jon Seidman (07:54):
Well, it's also something interesting that that
happened.
One of the most importantthings that I've noticed as I've
gotten older is the like.
It's something I always askpeople that I care about.
You know, like, like, you know,because I'm like one of those
guys when things are tight andthe world kind of sucks, I have
a monkey brain at three o'clockin the morning, you know, and if
, like, something wakes me up,I'm there.
For you know, I'm up like and,and so you know you told me,
(08:17):
every single day, no matter whatI do, I'm up at four o'clock in
the morning and I'm call me,you know, because there's a
chance I might be up.
So for me, like, that check-inis always hey man, how are you
sleeping?
Like?
You know.
Like, are you getting to sleep,are you getting enough sleep?
Because it's kind of thebarometer that I've been
accustomed to to check in my ownlife If I'm sleeping well, then
I think things are in a calmplace.
Allan Marks (08:36):
Let me ask you a question though, Jon, because
what I know of you right isyou're a pretty intellectual guy
.
You're in your brain, you'rethinking about those coffee
grounds in innate detail.
For you, does caring come froma place of thought, or is it
just automatic?
Or is it an emotional drive?
Jon Seidman (08:53):
Kindness probably I don't ever think about.
It's not ever.
I'm not a saint by any meansand I'm not, you know I face
imposter syndrome like everybodyelse.
The reality of it is I don'tput ideals forward in my mind
and like kind of think about achessboard or anything like that
.
It's just kind of like the.
There's a few philosophies thatI live by, and one of them is
(09:14):
treat people the way you want tobe treated Like.
Show up for somebody the wayyou want to be shown up for.
I mean, that's really importantand there are people in my life
that have shown up for me andit's not the people you expect.
It's my mechanic, my carmechanic, who I adore, I love to
death, and I hang out with himand he doesn't let me pay half
the time because we've becomefriends and he's watched my kids
(09:35):
grow up and the whole thing.
My gardener, who is the youknow, a good friend of mine, who
on a Sunday when I needed arefrigerator move I knew he had
a pickup I was willing to payhim.
He's like no, I'd rather justhang out with you.
And so we had a drive to gopick up a washing machine or a
dryer somewhere and down here ata Best Buy somewhere, and he
just gave me his Sunday, didn'twant any money, didn't want
anything, but it's just becausewe hang out.
(09:56):
You know, I guess for me it'sjust this innate feeling of just
treating everybody the exactsame.
I don't care, you know, ifyou're Alan Marks and you're
Sean, and you know whoever isthe person sitting across the
table from me, they're just asimportant on this planet as I am
.
And the second thing is, youknow, it's kind of a morbid
feeling, but we're all going todie Like ultimately feeling, but
we're all going to die, likelike ultimately, by definition
(10:16):
of morbid feeling it is.
I mean, we're all going to dieat some point.
And what I don't want is a lifeof regret in any way, shape or
form, like that's that.
That to me is probably theworst thing that could ever
happen is to like go through mylife with regret and like
without the feeling that, likeBill Murray has kind of like
define this, this genre ofliving for me, you, me, and I
(10:37):
love the way that he shows upand the way he is in the world
and how we you know there's afew.
I'm a bit more, I guess, maybemore detail oriented in life.
But so, to answer your question, it's an innate feeling that
there's no prime or reason to it.
It's just important to me totreat everybody this way.
It's your way of being human,it's my way of being human.
I, that's my way of being human.
I don't know any other way.
And people in my life havegiven me so much and I've never
(11:01):
been able to give them anythingin return, you know, except the
experience of being together.
Sean Knierim (11:06):
Do they refuse to accept things, or is it just
impossible to figure out what togive to them?
Jon Seidman (11:19):
No, I think I've learned to just say thank you.
Sean Knierim (11:20):
When somebody's being nice, you know when
somebody wants to do it.
I think I've learned to justsay thank you.
When somebody's being nice, youknow.
When somebody wants to do it.
I think I've learned to justsay thank you, and we've talked
about that in in a prior episode, about how many people when you
try and thank them at leastduring the last few months, I
would hear it was nothing.
It's the least I can do, don'tworry about it.
And it's like well, but you'reinvalidating.
Are you invalidating mygratitude?
It's like just say, just sayyou're invalidating.
Are you invalidating mygratitude?
It's like just say you'rewelcome, because each time I
heard that, I remember, at leastwhen I was in the moment.
Allan Marks (11:42):
There's something else you heard from a lot of
people that you shared with me.
When you would thank people forthings that they would say we
got you.
Sean Knierim (11:49):
Yeah, we got you was one of the things I heard
that we heard that a lot as youreflect on what you saw in the
LA community.
Everyone kind of came togetherAnything that surprised you of
what you saw here.
I mean, you've been a longtimeresident of Los Angeles, right,
Were you surprised at how thecommunity came together in the
last few months?
Jon Seidman (12:08):
To me, I think it's actually, you know, when it's
not about the now or even theimmediate after.
I'm way more like whensomething happens, like
obviously I want to take care ofit in the moment, but I think
where my specialty is is comingin later and being like hey, you
know like this happened.
You know how are you six monthslater Like what's going on?
You know, are you sleeping?
(12:28):
Okay, you know, is there?
Is there anything I can helpyou with now?
Because I knew that you weregoing to get inundated with
people that wanted to help andall kinds of things that they
could offer.
I had material things that Icould offer, which was space and
a guest house that was sittingempty.
Sean Knierim (12:45):
Which we took you up on.
We stored as like.
For a brief moment, to quoteSean Penn, we were briefly
liberated from the tyranny ofpossessions.
I had three and a half Subarus,Subaru worth of stuff, two of
which ended up getting stored inyour place, and we then tried
to steal some of your wife'sclothing when we brought the
stuff back.
But that was really important.
(13:07):
But say more about the longhaul.
Jon Seidman (13:10):
Well, I mean, the moment is easy, you know, the
moment's really easy to get.
It's almost reflexive.
Of course, it's like, you know,you're caught up in the emotion
of it and you know it's thatinstant rush of almost social
media being.
You know, I always used to putthis tag when I was really
active on social media, which Inever really was.
But you know my fake Instagramlife, because you're catching
(13:30):
these snapshots of veryunrealistic pieces of it.
What I saw and where I feel isit's now it's three, four, six
months after this.
This upheaval is where peopleare really going to need the
support to like, you know, whereit's not sexy anymore, it's not
fun to like, hey, I'm helpingthis guy with the fire stuff.
You know it's like.
(13:55):
You know, now it's like thesharks are moving in and the
predators are coming in and it'syou know, it's the rebuild, and
this is where all the confusionand the anger and the bad
energy is really going to comeinto play.
But the people, the victimsthat you know, are still going
to have all this pent up likenon-resoluted emotion.
Sean Knierim (14:07):
And I think there's another piece too, that
there's a lot of activity that'shappening for those that have
to rebuild, for those of us thatare renting, that might need to
go find another place, butthere's also a quietude.
All of a sudden it gets quiet.
You've got a Wednesday nightsitting at home and nothing to
do, and for me, if I'm moving, Iknow how to deal with crisis, I
know how to react and respond.
(14:27):
I don't know how to sit quietlywith my own emotions, and
that's where I think, havingtrusted friends that can show up
for you, do you think you?
Allan Marks (14:34):
would have had that lesson if it weren't for the
fire.
If it weren't for the fire,would you have realized that I
knew?
Sean Knierim (14:38):
this lesson for a long, long time.
What's interesting?
I mean?
In fact, in some ways, I'vespent the last 10 years actively
working to get my brain out ofcrisis mode and slow down and
get to homeostasis, as some inthe performance community would
say right, and when thishappened I was able to lock back
in.
I have things to take care of.
I got to move.
I know I need and this is funnywhen you're thinking action.
(15:00):
I know I need to sleep, eat,nutrition.
Can I get some physicalactivity?
Can I be around community.
I know the things that arerequired to take care of myself,
but I can get active in doingthose things to more quickly or
kind of ease back in to quietreflection it's scary.
Allan Marks (15:20):
I want to blow that up for a second.
Maybe each of you think of it,certainly, Jon, your thoughts,
because what, Jon, you justdescribed is a very personal
process.
And we look at community, thinkcommunity resilience, right.
There's often like this frenzyof apparent action where people
are trying to rebuild quicklybecause everybody wants to go
back to the way it was, which is, of course, not possible.
(15:41):
But you're going to go back tosomething and what you're going
to go back to will either havesome of the same vulnerabilities
or it will be better.
In some ways.
It will certainly be different,and not all of that frenzied
activity that people are goingthrough at the beginning of it
result in the better solution.
Sometimes activity that peopleare going through at the
beginning of it result in thebetter solution, sometimes a
(16:03):
process that would allow formore of a pause and a collective
consultation, if you will,which we just don't build into
the system might be moreefficacious.
Jon Seidman (16:10):
I don't know if you've got a sense of it's funny
you brought that up because Iparallel it with my own life in
a sense, where you, you know,I'm 55.
So you know, I'm in the throesof middle age, if you will, or
whatever you want to call it.
The next chapter is I have twokids, one going to college this
fall, another who's going to bea senior in college, and so
we're looking, you know, downthe barrel of an empty nest and
(16:31):
kind of this idea of all thisspace and time that happened
where my mind share was so muchof my kids and raising my kids
and being a parent and makingsure that I was doing everything
, right or wrong, or lettingthem fail or not letting them
fail, or whatever the mode wasof the day.
Sean Knierim (16:49):
And enjoying a lot of that time and being defined
by that's what.
Allan Marks (16:52):
I want to do.
Jon Seidman (16:53):
I've seen you as a father and learning that hard
lesson of when to step back andallow the space or allow the
risk and understand, when youhave two kids, that they're
completely different animalsbetween the two of them, and
there's no, I can't raise onethe same way I'm raising the
other.
They're just different people,you know.
And switching from parent tocoach because that's where I'm
at now with my relationship withthese kids and so what you're
(17:15):
saying is taking that pause, andI've taken a pause in life, if
you will, for a little bit,emotionally, kind of like.
I lived a very busy life beforeand I always, growing up, I was
like, wow, if you travel forwork, you're successful, like
that was a definition of successto me.
It wasn't a monetary numberthat sounds painfully familiar,
(17:36):
but it was like if you travelfor work, you are successful,
that's it, that's the ultimate.
And you know, I lived for somany years in a very busy life
of like, of filling my time andhaving all of these things, and
then all of a sudden, lifeslowed down for me, and
professionally too, and so thatpause that I had in my being
(17:57):
professionally and as a parentmimics exactly what you just
described, where I'm able tolike regroup and kind of, you
know, morph into, hopefully, thenext chapter of the person that
I like, want to grow, actuallytake time to workshop and think
(18:21):
tank the next phase, instead ofimmediately jumping into
building the same again or thenew again, or the new same again
or whatever they're doing.
It would have lasting benefitsthroughout time.
But again, time is money.
Allan Marks (18:38):
Now there's also the.
I remember during COVID when wewere all sort of stopped right.
I remember actually in ourneighborhood a lot of people
left and so it was eerily quietand we would go outside and walk
the dog and there were birds,there were no cars, the city
sounds were all different too.
Sean Knierim (18:55):
What kind of dog are you walking to paint the
picture for the reader?
Allan Marks (18:58):
Paint the picture, that was our poodle, a poodle,
okay, she was sweet, she wasvery sweet.
A sweet poodle, yeah, sweet andsmart.
She sadly passed away about ayear and a half ago but yeah,
but she, yeah, we'd be walkingand there was more time.
I mean it was terrible, I think, for our daughter to have to
miss a year or two of highschool by learning remotely.
(19:19):
But it was a wonderful surprisethat we had family dinners with
our teenager every night almostfor two years, which is kind of
remarkable.
But when we came out of COVID'sisolation and all that vaccines
and businesses reopened andthings I don't know they went
back to normal, but they wentback to something closer to
normal.
There was, people had forgottenhow to deal with each other.
(19:41):
They'd forgotten basic socialskills how to drive, how to say
thank you, how to say you'rewelcome, right?
What is this public space?
Again, there's other people init.
All of a sudden, I wonder whatkind of lessons, coming back
from a natural disaster like uh,like the fires that we've seen,
both in in in the west side, inthe palestinians, but also in
uh, the eden canyon fire in uh,with a very different community,
(20:03):
with those also profoundlyaffected, with thousands of
homes lost in altadena.
I'm wondering what you thinkthe new normal would be after a
community, even a city of thissize, goes through that kind of
a collective trauma.
Sean Knierim (20:16):
I think I've watched teenage kids in Zoom
school for the last few monthswho are going to be returning to
an in-person they're calling itPali South at the Sears
building in Santa Monica andthey were able to come together
in kind of the Zoom rules.
They all fit back into thatrhythm and routine, including
the teachers did a remarkablejob coming back.
But there weren't pods the waythey were before.
(20:38):
You weren't quarantined, sothey were able to kind of move
in and among and make the best.
This was kind of the COVIDexperience that they wished they
had.
Right Like my daughter and herfriends were able to be together
, watching them come back into abuilding is going to be really
interesting.
Hearing the experience of mydaughter's friends who moved
quickly to other schools andthem being the outlier, them
(20:59):
being the other in a school thathad just come from something
and they're trying to integratethemselves into a rhythm of high
school that had been there fora while.
It's hard to be different inhigh school unless you're
actively trying to be different,and I'm thinking of the wider
community.
Now when you go to therestaurant, the coffee shop, the
grocery store, many of us arestill people who lost homes and
(21:21):
are bringing those bags back todifferent refrigerators from the
ones that melted wherever theyused to be.
But at what point do youacknowledge that this happened
to you and it's different fordifferent people.
Like my son wanted us to stoptalking about the fires.
Two weeks after the fire, shegoes, dad, we gotta stop.
We gotta stop asking for stuff,and for me it's still such a
(21:41):
real present thing.
It's hard for me.
I find myself it's hard to havea conversation without
mentioning yeah, this just camethrough, um, it also.
Jon Seidman (21:49):
I mean sorry to interrupt, but the idea that
like as the traditional man ofthe house, right, you know, I
mean, I know your wife's abadass, you know I'm not a
traditional man yet Correct.
You've seen my house, but wehave a role, yeah, and, and, and
, and.
No matter what we do, you knowas, as, as the father, the dad,
the male you want to fix.
You know what I mean, and soyou through the ultimate holy
(22:13):
shit moment.
You know what I mean.
We're swearing in this podcast.
Sean Knierim (22:17):
We just made that decision.
Oh, absolutely.
Allan Marks (22:20):
But I want to pause on that for a second, because
what's being?
It's not so much that thestereotypical dad couldn't fix
the problem, it's that thestereotypical dad puts it on
himself to believe that that'shis role, whether anybody else
in the family agrees with thator not.
Right, and therefore feels bad.
Maybe, sean I don't know ifthat you'd failed to fix it,
even though maybe theexpectation was frankly not
(22:41):
there and the desire may nothave been there either, for you
to try to play that.
Sean Knierim (22:43):
Yeah, I have a story and it's interesting to me
too, having these conversationswhere we want to pull out and
think about the wider communityand, Jon, we want to hear about
your time in other countriesworking with different
communities.
But I'm still looking throughstraws on the experience that
I'm in right now.
Like I remember the fourth dayin a row I woke up super early
in the morning before I got tothe coffee you shared with us.
(23:03):
It was five days in a row welost lease offers where we
thought we had a house, areplacement house For whatever
reason.
Our new rental because we werein our.
This was our ninth rental placefor collectively, for our
family, and we didn't know if wewere going to get the one.
That day we were excited tooffer way more money than I ever
thought I would offer for rentfor a place with no dishwasher,
(23:26):
a crappy range.
I would not be able to bake,bake my bread.
There's no someone livingupstairs that they wouldn't
introduce us to before sign.
And I remember and I was like Iam failing at getting my family
shelter, I am failing, and ninastopped me and this was like
like I came crying into thebedroom right and she's like
sean, it's first of all, it'snot you, it's us, which was a
(23:48):
very kind thing to say, eventhough I didn't believe her,
like deep down, right To thepoint you just made.
Jon and both of us at thatmoment, I mean, this is how we
were thinking it through.
It's like we're going to haveto give this over to God.
We're going to have to let God,we're going to have to trust.
And it was later that day, thatwas the next day after we moved
(24:09):
to another place, that wewalked in and a friend offered
us the place that we get to bein now.
But it was profoundlyunsettling not to be able to
provide that stability to afamily, like in feeling the
responsibility.
Allan Marks (24:22):
But then how did it feel when you finally let go
and said oh did you, I'm goingto trust it to.
Sean Knierim (24:27):
God or whatever.
So it let me take a breath.
It let me.
We have someone we're going totalk to here, dan Dworkis, who
works with a lot of firstresponders.
He described it.
The best I've heard so far isthat inside of many of us
there's just a pool, a well ofemotions, yeah, and there's all
kinds of emotions in there andI'm hoping there's like joy and
(24:48):
euphoria or somewhere, but Ithink they have a higher
specific gravity and havedropped.
But it's not hard for something.
Anything that's added will makeit overflow, and so these
things were.
So we were able to take abreath and we say it when we're
focused.
My wife and I say three prayerstogether every single morning,
which has been a beautifulritual that we've started in the
last seven years, and I wasable to take a breath.
(25:10):
I was able to feel a little bitmore at ease, a little bit not
under control, but more able tosurf the nutty world that we
were facing, and it let me be abetter father to my kids when I
walked downstairs and they wokeup.
So I was able to take thatbreath.
Allan Marks (25:27):
Yeah, and there's a connection between being better
for yourself and being better,being more available and more
responsible for others.
Sean Knierim (25:32):
Yeah, the metaphor really works of you have to put
your own air mask on before youtake care of the person next to
you and get theirs on.
Yeah, I agree with that.
Allan Marks (25:41):
Which is an analogy that brings you back to travel
for a second, because, Jon,you've lived overseas as well.
Do other countries or societiesthat you've lived in do a
better job of this?
Jon Seidman (25:51):
I'll say that it's more innate in their being than
it is here.
I lived in throughout the 90sfor 11 years, in the most remote
area of Costa Rica and you know, prior to 1993, 94, there was a
six-month road.
So I lived in a community thatwas completely isolated in the
(26:13):
southern zone and the OsaPeninsula, on the bottom half of
it, where if you wanted to getthere in the rainy season you
had to either fly or take a busto a town across a gulf and then
take an hour long ferry ride orfly in.
You know if the weather wasgood enough to fly in, because
the roads were completelyknocked out because of the
bridges and the rain Disasterswere a dime a dozen.
(26:34):
You know what I mean.
Like you know whether it waslike a child getting bit by a
Fertilance.
You know a Viper and thecommunity having to come
together to get her to where sheneeds to be because we're so
remote to come together to gether to where she needs to be
because we're so remote to.
You know, two and a half weeksof solid downpour and every
(26:57):
bridge, every road is washed out.
You know and you know there'sno drinking water, there's no
food really available andeverybody is broke to begin with
.
So what I noticed was, you know, everybody just kind of like
nobody, stuck to their ownbeings back then.
There I can't speak for whatit's like now because they have
TV and phones and all the otherthings and electricity, but back
then it was this incredible,like we were all shared
(27:19):
experience of going throughsomething and it was.
It was not just community wascommunal, it was communal.
It was communal, it wascommunal and it was.
It was people checking on eachother because that's what you
had to do.
And yeah, so, you know, living,living that remotely prior has
trained me, I guess, in some way, shape or form, to understand.
You know, an hour or two hoursaway from where you are, you
(27:53):
know you have to deal with it.
Like I've had my leg split openfrom.
You know, a surfboard accident.
I pulled a good friend of mineout of the water who died.
You know he drowned and youknow there was a group of us who
were all surfing together andhe's gone and his board sticking
straight up.
Yeah, yeah, but I mean it wasall part of the experience.
I can't, you know, can't goback on it.
You learn how to deal veryquickly in the moment.
(28:16):
There's no, there's no room forerror, there's no stopping to
think about the situation thatyou have to live on instinct and
you have to be able to react inthis in the moment, because
these are life or deathsituations, and then you have to
move forward with your decisionand stay completely, you know,
to that point.
Sean Knierim (28:31):
Can I let me pull out something that you said a
little bit earlier in that flowof you have to decide to be calm
, and then you talked a lotabout learning how to work
within these moments of crisis.
It's something that you gothrough and you learn from.
Did you always have the abilityto decide to be calm?
Can anyone decide to be calm,or is that something that you
(28:51):
learn?
Is it something that you haveinnately?
Can you talk a little bit about?
Jon Seidman (28:54):
that no-transcript, something that is there more
than it's something you learn,because it's a reaction, it's,
it's an instinct, it's a youknow it's, it's a, it's, it's a
sense that you have.
I don't think it's somethingthat you can kind of pull out of
train yourself I, I don't know.
Allan Marks (29:13):
I mean let me.
But let me make a distinction,because you're using the word
calm and I'm not sure that's theword that you're just.
What you're describing it'sequanimity, it it's balance,
it's clarity and it's thatperspective allows you not to
rush or hurry in any kind of apanic.
You're able to modulate.
It's not a numbness, it's not aslowness either.
No, but it's what you need to doin a way which is very clear
(29:33):
and maybe methodical, maybepaced, but it's what the
situation demands, withouthistrionics getting in the way.
Yes, and it's also the it'sflow.
Jon Seidman (29:42):
It's higher, it's flow.
Allan Marks (29:43):
It's not exactly, it's the higher state of being
and I'll give you an example.
It's Kareem coming in with thisguy hook and in his own brain
it takes three minutes and therest of us watch it happen in
two seconds, correct, yeah?
Jon Seidman (30:03):
You know, or it's of being that, it's just.
I don't care what he's saying,it's the flow that I'm watching,
that I'm completely mesmerizedby how somebody can be so
comfortable in that moment.
And and for me, you know, I'vebeen in some very traumatic
experiences.
So I don't know if I ever toldyou, but one experience I had
was I was, I was flying from, Iflew from LA to New York, new
York and I was flying to BuenosAires.
And it was this was two months,three months after 9-11.
(30:25):
And I was filming my first TVshow, right, and so we're
filming magicians in BuenosAires.
And so the flight from LA to NewYork got delayed because of
mechanical problems on the plane, but it was the same plane that
was going to Buenos Aires.
We get stuck in New York, spendthe night in New York, I'm from
New York.
The next day I get up, get tothe airport, get on my plane and
I'm sitting in the emergencyrow seat.
(30:46):
I had been in a plane crashyears earlier with my wife in
Panama, and so I always traveledwith this little thing of
Valium, right, just in case.
I never took it back then.
You're just having it itselfwith me, that's all I needed.
I needed to know that it was inthe front pocket and I still
have the same exact containerfrom 1996 or whenever it was, or
98, 99, whenever we got in ourplane crash and I got my first
(31:09):
prescription for this stuff andI travel with it still to this
day and it's old Valium too,Valiumless-less yes.
It still works, I think,regardless.
We're on this plane, we'reflying over the Caribbean and
it's one of those olddouble-decker planes 757, 47.
, 47, yeah, yeah, old though andall of a sudden the cabin fills
(31:30):
with smoke.
Right, and this is like.
I've already been in a planecrash.
This is my worst nightmare.
This is it Like I'm living.
It Captain comes on, says guys,we have an emergency, we have to
dump the fuel.
We're going to fly, you know,100 feet over the ocean.
We're going to prepare thecabin for an emergency water
landing.
Okay, I'm like, oh my Lord,you're losing it.
You know, like, but Iimmediately took five Valium,
five, five.
(31:51):
But you're a big guy, big guy,but regardless, that's a lot.
Whatever it did, it centered upand was working with the flight
attendant on the other side,because our flight attendant was
completely lost and scared.
People were crying, kids.
We had to move people, movebaggage.
This woman could not open thedoor.
It was all of those things,yeah, and as intense as it was,
(32:12):
and the planes filled with smokeand the wings are opening up
and all the fuel's pouring outinto the Caribbean, and now
we're 100 feet over the ocean,but you can smell probably.
Allan Marks (32:19):
Oh yeah, you totally smell that when that
much food is being dumped.
Jon Seidman (32:22):
We were going.
I don't know, I remember thesmell of people.
Allan Marks (32:26):
It was the pheromones of people.
Jon Seidman (32:27):
That was like.
I remember how I smell.
That's funny.
You say that because I wentinto flow, I went into this
higher flow.
In that moment, this calmnesscame over me, I was completely
at peace.
And you know, the captain'stalking us through this.
He's like, hey, we're, you knowwe're gonna go into the ocean
and did it all this time, andyou know, and finally
everything's cleared up and withabout four minutes left, I sit
(32:48):
down in my seat and I'm takingthe position that we're supposed
to be taking and there's a guynext to me and two people, two
men that we put in the seats infront of us, and and there's a
phone in the front.
You know, they all had thosephones I grab the phone and I
swipe my credit card and I'dcall my wife Like the worst
thing I possibly could have done.
She answers the phone and she'slike what, what?
What?
You know, she knows.
Like she immediately, like wewere in tune, like we're pretty
(33:09):
well synced together and sheknew something was wrong,
because she knew I was on aplane flying.
And I'm like honey, I don'tknow what's going to happen, but
we're about to go into theocean.
I just want you to know I loveyou.
And I told her that and I hungup this call Worst thing I
probably could have done ever.
Yeah now she's really, reallyworried.
Yeah Well, she calls my sister.
My sister and her call AmericanAirlines get moved right up the
(33:29):
food chain because they knowthis is happening and they're
like you know, how do you knowthis information?
So they talk them throughwhat's happening.
We ended up hobbling intoPuerto Rico so and just, we
didn't make a water.
We did not make the water youwould have known if we made a
water but we made it into puertorico.
But where I'm going with this isit's that, it's that, it's that
flow of being in the moment,like there were other people
(33:51):
that were panicking and freakingout and and I did not go there.
I went the exact oppositedirection, like, okay, I have
something to do, these peopleneed help and I, you know, I,
I'm in a position where I canhelp them and and and I need to,
you know, go into this mode andI just went.
I don't, I didn't think aboutanything, I didn't anticipate, I
(34:11):
didn't, there was no thoughtprocess, everything was on full
high flow.
Sean Knierim (34:16):
So as we kind of transition back to Los Angeles
and kind of is coming towardsthe conclusion of this
conversation, that's, in themoment of crisis, you really, I
think, astutely pointed to thefact we're moving into a
different phase of the crisisdown here in Los Angeles, where
this is the long slog.
How do we get into flow, orcommunity flow or individual?
(34:37):
I don't even know if it's flow,but what is it that's going to
help enable this continuedresiliency of community during
this long?
What do you think we need inorder to be there for each other
over the next month?
Any ideas?
It's?
Jon Seidman (34:53):
such a kooky environment right now.
To begin with that, evenwithout the juxtaposition, so
maybe we're still in crisis.
We are.
I mean, I think there's a lotof people that would say we are
in crisis.
And you know, there was ahousing crisis and an
affordability crisis in LosAngeles way before the fires.
The fires didn't do any, youknow.
They didn't make it easier.
You know they literallydisplaced, you know, a hundred
(35:16):
thousand people who were livingin homes, who could afford them,
or barely afford them, whateverthe circumstances were, and now
they're homeless.
Really, at the end of the day.
Yeah, I don't know if I give itenough thought.
I think it's just going to beindividuals who step up and do
things.
I mean, I actually like, Ithink there's a lot of potential
for heroes to come out of this,but I don't know how we kind of
(35:37):
move ourselves.
I don't know how we kind ofmove ourselves.
I mean, I'm just hoping thatthere's some integrity in the
way things are kind of dividedup.
Sean Knierim (35:47):
next, and I don't have a lot of faith in that.
So I think you did offer ussomething towards the beginning
of this conversation aboutreaching out to people you know
and asking them how they'redoing, asking them but in a
really specific way How'd yousleep last night?
So not just how you're doing,which is kind of sometimes
difficult to answer if you don'tknow how you're doing, but then
(36:08):
to provide the specificity howare you sleeping, how are you
doing Like, have you connectedwith friends?
So I think that offer offriendship whether or not
they're going to take you up onit, I think is a really powerful
takeaway for anyone listeningto this and something that could
really be helpful to someone, Ithink it's important to do that
with just, I mean, and withstrangers too.
Allan Marks (36:26):
It's this idea of thinking of community building
as the new friendships youtalked about before, yeah, the
extended ones, I mean that's, weare all in this together.
Yes, and we need to be, Jon,thank you so much for taking the
time to get together with us.
Sean Knierim (36:46):
I hope I provided some sort of entertainment and
you know voice in theconversation.
You've certainly providedfriendship and support to people
around you.
You did to my family, I think,for those listening here,
they're definitely going to takesome wisdom from these and some
enjoyment from the stories youshared with us.
So thank you, and as we'removing through these episodes,
you know we thank you forjoining us to listen to this
conversation that Alan and Ijust had with Jon.
We hope you keep tuning in aswe explore different ways that
(37:08):
resilience is exposing itselfaround this town and different
ideas for how we might be ableto strengthen that resilience
and be there for each other.
This has been Shared Ground.
I'm Allan Marks, thank you, andI'm Sean Knierim, and we're
really grateful to be here withy'all.
Thanks very much, thank you.
This has been another episodeof Shared Ground, a podcast
(37:29):
about resilience and community.
Allan Marks (37:31):
Follow us on your favorite platform or learn more
at sharedgroundcom.
Sean Knierim (37:36):
That's shared-ground.
com.
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