May 21, 2025 • 38 mins
Today Allan and Sean talk with Joy Gruver about her response to the January fires in the LA region, and more broadly about responding when others are struggling.
We weave between personal stories of giving and professional insights into textile sustainability.
On the personal side, what started as delivering a basic care package with her daughter evolved into something far more profound for Sean's family.
Joy, who works in business development focusing on sustainability at Eastman Chemical in the fiber industry, brings a unique perspective to disaster response. She leveraged her professional connections with companies like Marmot (thank you, Kim!) to secure clothing donations for fire victims and shares insights into how these individual actions connected to larger community efforts.
The conversation takes a remarkable turn when discussing how teenagers organized a sophisticated clothing redistribution system, methodically matching donations to specific family needs with an efficiency that impressed even seasoned professionals.
Throughout the conversation, resilience emerges as more than just surviving hardship—it's about community connections, preparedness, and finding meaning in difficulty.
As Joy puts it, "Part of resilience is lifting yourself up from those dark days, being appreciative for what we actually have, and not being afraid to ask for what you need." Her story reminds us that in our most vulnerable moments, both giving and receiving support with grace can transform lives. How might you prepare yourself to be both a giver and receiver of support when your community faces challenges?
Shared Ground is produced by Sean Knierim and Allan Marks. Thanks to Cory Grabow, Kara Poltor, Corey Walles (from The Recording Studio) for your support in launching this effort.
For more stories of resilience & rebuilding, kindness & generosity: visit shared-ground.com and subscribe to Sean's substack. We invite you to share your own stories of resilience at the Shared Ground website - whether in response to the January fires in LA or other situations.
Follow us at seanknierim.substack.com, Instagram, or wherever you listen to podcasts (Apple Podcasts, Spotify, etc).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sean Knierim (00:00):
This is Shared Ground, a podcast about
resilience and community.
I'm Alan MarksAnd I'm Sean Knierim.
Today we have yet anotherperson we really respect an d
like.
Joy Gruver is joining us.
.
(00:21):
This is a loaded question, god.
I feel like I'm a lot of thingsright.
I think as a working mom likeyou're pulled in a lot of
directions, so depending onwhere I'm at is kind of who I am
at th moment.
Who do you want to be right now?
Joy Gruver (00:39):
I want to be interesting, right, I want to.
Sean Knierim (00:43):
That's our hope as well.
Joy Gruver (00:44):
Right, that's the goal is telling, I guess, yet
another part of my story and mylife and how it relates back to
you and your life.
So, yeah, I want to sharestories.
I guess I'm a communicator bynature, so the fact of
communicating in a platform likethis is exciting and
(01:05):
interesting and different thanwhat I do in my normal world.
Sean Knierim (01:09):
C an you give us just a quick view of what's the
normal world look like, and thenwe'll jump into stories.
Joy Gruver (01:13):
Sure, so I'm a mom of two teenagers, a working mom.
I do business development for achemical company focused on
sustainability.
I work in the fibers area forour business.
So I work with a lot of brandson the West Coast helping to
pull through from our technologyinto their supply chains, and
(01:37):
it's a pretty dynamic role.
But I've been doing it for awhile and it's fun, keeps me
going, makes me wake up everymorning.
Sean Knierim (01:45):
Great.
Well, we're glad you chose tospend part of the day here with
us.
So, as a lot of these episodesare starting as we're getting
this podcast going, we'relooking back at the fires and
what happened in Los Angeles inearly January and something
we're asking each person we'retalking to is like, as you think
(02:07):
back to the 7th to the 8th ofJanuary, can you walk us through
what you remember?
What were you feeling?
What was life feeling like foryou, for your family, back in
early January?
Joy Gruver (02:11):
Yeah.
So for me I'm going to relateit back to your family, because
when I heard about the firesthat they were in the Palisades,
the first thing I thought ofwas your daughter.
Having met your beautifuldaughter last November doing the
school-wide clothing swap andsharing the sustainability story
to all the students that cameto our event that day, I got to
(02:37):
talking to some of thesestudents and what went through
my mind as I saw and heard aboutthe fires is like I hope these
kids are okay, you know, andthey were beautiful kids and
full of like questions aboutsustainability and wanting to
know what I do, and they werejust very inquisitive kids and
(02:58):
all I can think about was theycould potentially be losing
everything that they have.
Sean Knierim (03:04):
And to paint a picture on that, this wasn't
just Joy showing up at a highschool and talking to a handful
of kids.
You and Maria, my daughter, puttogether a full-on panel with
four other badass professionalwomen that Maria was moderating,
but you and Maria put on a fullclothing swap in the afternoon
to start thinking aboutsustainability, which is going
to come back into this story theamount of stuff that was lost,
(03:27):
but also the amount of stuffthat showed back up.
Yeah, so you had a deepconnection with my kid and with
all of these others.
So back to the fires arehappening and you start thinking
about this community.
Joy Gruver (03:39):
So I think about the community, I think about your
daughter and you.
But so I sent Maria a messageand I said you know, are you
guys okay?
If you need a place to stay?
You know I'm in the South Bay,come stay with me.
I have a pullout couch, likewhatever you guys need.
And she wrote that you know youguys had it handled and you
(04:02):
were in a hotel and it hurt mefor you guys going through that.
And so I think, with tragedysometimes like it can also bring
beauty and so showing thecommunity how like you can show
up.
I mean I live 25 miles south ofyou but I could see the
(04:27):
Palisades burning from my house.
I have a line direct to thePalisades from my hillside and
it was just unbelievable.
So I think that me justreaching out to Maria, and I
(04:49):
think you guys were still likein shock of like everything
happening, so she couldn't quiteget back to me on what her
needs were.
But I gave it a couple of daysand decided, like with my
daughter, like let's go shopping, let's build a kit for Maria
and let's see what we can donateand help.
And so at that point mydaughter was like, yeah, let's
(05:12):
go shopping.
So we went to Target, got abunch of things, and actually I
even want to take this back acouple of steps, because when
the fires were happening, we,even 25 miles south in the South
Bay, were getting alerts on ourphones right.
And all I can think about islike how is a fire possibly
(05:33):
going to be happening here?
But then you hear about theseterrible arsonists, right, and
so I'm thinking all the firedepartment is on the other side
of the city, like if they'rejust bad people, they will, like
, put PV on fire in the SouthBay.
So I was thinking when I gotthese alerts, like, oh my gosh,
(05:55):
this is what's happening.
There could potentially bearsonists.
So I started throwing stuff inmy car just to be prepared, and
I threw a couple of blankets inthe car right, the blanket's
part of the story.
And then that weekend, when mydaughter and I went shopping at
Target, we got a bunch of stuffand, by the way, there was no
(06:16):
fires in my area.
Sean Knierim (06:19):
The South Bay was safe.
Joy Gruver (06:20):
The South Bay was safe, yes, but that weekend we
found out where you guys wereand so we drove to where you
were and I wanted my daughter tojust be a part of this.
A I wanted her to meet yourdaughter, because your daughter
is a pretty amazing young woman,and then, b, I want her to feel
(06:41):
how important it is to helpcommunity, and I think it's
really important to help ourteenagers.
You know, teenagers can be kindof selfish, which we all were
selfish, right as teenagers.
That's kind of part of it.
Some older people are.
Allan Marks (06:55):
Many of us still are.
I don't think they have amonopoly on being selfish.
Joy Gruver (06:59):
Right, right, right.
That's very true, very true Infact in the country.
Allan Marks (07:03):
In many ways, I think that one of the things
I've seen I've seen it also notjust in the fire response
selfishness in many ways thatI'm seeing in her cohort than I
(07:26):
think I remember seeing in in mygeneration when we were younger
that's awesome.
Joy Gruver (07:31):
Yeah, that's awesome and certainly, I think, less
selfishness I see in people myage today well, see, I feel like
this next generation, they'rejust they're gonna be kick-ass,
right, they're gonna.
I already are, I, they, theyalready are in so many ways.
In some ways, they're justthey're going to be kick-ass
right, they're going to, theyalready are.
Allan Marks (07:46):
They already are in so many ways and in some ways
because they're able toassimilate things from so many
different ways.
So I'm just you know, I'mlistening to you talk about the
story of your experience, whathappened with the fire.
I'm also thinking behind it,before that, when you were at
the high school, and the waythat you were bringing in your
experience with this andchemicals and fabrics and
synthetics versus natural fibersand dyes, and how does all that
(08:09):
play into a supply chain?
You're talking to kids thatkind of get it, because they're
actually attuned to all thosedifferent things.
They're consumers, maybe morethan they are producers, but
they care about environmentalimpacts, they care about labor
and the integrity of supplychains and making sure that
their stuff if it's really cheapwhich well, it's nice, but why
(08:29):
is it cheap?
And my daughter will sometimessay, if it's too cheap, don't
buy it because that means it'sslave labor and whether that's
right or not, there is thisawareness of the different
strands that they're able tosynthesize and pull together.
Joy Gruver (08:43):
What I loved about that day, too, is we had over a
hundred students in thatauditorium.
I'll go to events, speakingevents and with adults there'll
be no questions in the audience.
Interesting, that day therewere so many questions in the
audience and in fact we weretaking it beyond the bell.
The bell rang and we're stilltalking and they're coming up to
(09:06):
me afterwards asking questionsand so, like adults don't do
that, this is fantastic thatthese kids are doing this, yeah.
Allan Marks (09:14):
Real learners.
I think one of the advantagesperhaps of the access that we
have now to so much informationso quickly just on our phones or
whatever, is it allows thelicense for unbridled curiosity,
yeah, and there's a connectionin this generation to what they
want to do with their time andtheir life and their resources,
like, not only the consumerpiece, but where are we going to
(09:36):
work in the world and how arewe going to insist that these
jobs are going to be treating usor we're going to be doing?
Yeah, and what's interestinghere?
So, as we think back to you andyour daughter your own young
daughter coming over to find usin one of our many Airbnbs this
actually is a bridge between thetwo of you that you guys might
not know.
So you come over, joy, and youhave the care package, which was
(09:58):
spectacular.
You brought these blankets andwe'll put a picture on the
website of my wife taking one ofthese blankets and it became
her security blanket.
Last night she was stillwrapped in this blanket.
This became a security blanket.
It's the right image here.
It became really important toher and we have this beautiful
picture of the two of youhugging each other at a dinner.
(10:19):
But you also brought a box fromone of your brand partnership
Like.
So you had been reached out toby one of the groups you work
with and they were trying tofigure out how to funnel
contributions in and you askedlike, how can we do this?
Can I do it through Maria?
So can you talk a bit aboutthat?
What you were hearing from thatbrand, yeah, and then I'll be
able to extend this into.
(10:40):
I mean I'm wearing.
This was the first t-shirt Igot.
That wasn't one of the two thatwere in my go bag, so I'm
wearing that proudly today as aMarmot fan, but these things
funneled through my kid becauseof you.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Joy Gruver (10:53):
Yeah, no, that's true, I forgot about the box.
So because Boxes Okay.
So I have been in the textileapparel industry for a while
I've been doing it for like 28years and so I have a lot of
great contacts.
And so I also, after talking toyour daughter, was like let me
(11:15):
reach out to all these brandsand see if I can get
contributions.
Let's get donations right.
And so I reached out to a lotof these outdoor brands I don't
know that I can say their names,but and reached out to some
fashion brands, and a lot ofthem actually were doing their
own thing to help the people ofAltadena and Pacific Palisades.
(11:39):
But Marmot stepped up and theysent me a couple of boxes to
start with.
And then my contact there waslike, her name is Kim, by the
way.
Sean Knierim (11:48):
Thank you, Kim.
Joy Gruver (11:50):
Yeah, she's amazing.
I saw her last week and shemakes my heart happy.
So Kim just got on it.
This woman, by the way, she waslike in jury duty for like a
month and she still managed totake time to get these boxes out
and deliver down to me.
So like they're just amazing.
(12:10):
So kudos to Marmot.
And then, yeah, I was able tobring those boxes over to you
and I think I just thought I waslike helping, but I didn't.
I guess I didn't reallyunderstand how deeply I was
helping and how much that meantto you.
And like you showing me thejacket, and your son was showing
(12:31):
me the jacket that he waswearing.
Sean Knierim (12:33):
My son didn't bring a jacket out of the house
and there's a few stories ofjackets that appeared in his
life.
But then we have this huge boxof Marmot gear.
We all are like I had a t-shirt, aiden got a jacket.
I think Maria grabbed somethingthat fit her Nothing.
My wife, like I had a t-shirt,aiden got a jacket.
I think Maria grabbed somethingthat fit her Nothing.
My wife didn't see anything shewanted.
So we had all of these amazingitems.
Allan Marks (12:52):
And so, just to be clear, for those who haven't
heard prior episodes of thepodcast is after your family
lost your home and all theclothes and things that you had
before were lost.
So at this point I had a go bag,I had a small soccer club
satchel, and that's the onlyclothes I had, and each of the
rest Maria did a better jobaccumulating stuff, because
she's better at everything thanmost of us.
So we have this box and each ofus got something.
(13:15):
I mean, this was the firstclean shirt I had in four days,
which was pretty nice for lotsof people around us, nice for
everybody and Alan, I'm going tothrow this over to you to tell
this story because you werethere, I only watched it.
So Maria has this stuff andshe's trying to figure out what
to do because she's stuck inthis small apartment.
School's not going on.
She wants to do things insteadof sitting around with her
(13:37):
parents who are going crazy.
So she and her friends start aclothing exchange.
One of the very first, thefirst weekend after the fires,
maria and her friends puttogether a social media campaign
to let people know to come toher friend's house.
The mom did not know untilpeople started showing up that
this was happening in her houseand the marmot clothes and other
clothes that you brought thatwe weren't able to use, plus
(13:59):
donations from all over startflowing in and these girls and a
couple of boys but it wasmainly young women start giving
this away to people in thecommunity coming in that needed
help I would say more than giveit away.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I mean, I was impressed by the coordination.
Allan Marks (14:13):
My daughter and I went over, which I didn't know
you were coming.
You heard about this, so alanand his daughter show up to to
volunteer and support maria andit's, and it wasn't really after
the fires, it was sort of stillduring them in a way.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
This is the the Saturday, so the bulk of the
fire near the Palisades was done, the house where you held this
in.
Allan Marks (14:33):
We were still under evacuation.
We were still under evacuation.
We were in Santa Monica.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
And there was still embers coming down.
In fact, one of the things wewere doing was trying to when we
had donated clothes or donatedluggage which some people had
brought because families needthat too, you know, duffel bags
and so forth was trying to movethat and keep it clean because
the embers kept getting on topof it Of course no one wants a
bunch of you know, ashy clothes,especially when they're new,
and a lot of people donated newthings.
It wasn't just cleaning outtheir closets.
(14:58):
That was appreciated, but whatwas impressive to me was the way
the teenagers that wereorganizing it many from Pali
High, many who had lost theirown homes were focused on
thinking what do other peopleneed?
What are the families we'regiving this to actually need?
So let's find out.
(15:19):
And they're connecting on theirphones with everybody and
saying, well, look, so we havethis family.
He has a father, he's an XXL, heneeds, like, really big stuff
and he likes baggy clothes.
They've got two kids.
You know the mom needs this andshe's this size.
You know, do we have any shoesthat will fit that?
People have donated a lot ofshoes, especially women's shoes,
athletic shoes and gettingthings that would fit the sizes
(15:41):
and personalities to the extentthey knew them of the specific
families that were receiving thedonations.
And at the very end we hadabsolutely so much clothing and
some of us then drove over toGoodwill to donate the rest of
it because there was only somuch you could do after this,
because a lot of the familiesthat had reached out and said
they were in need had alreadycommunicated that, but the
(16:02):
donations were still coming in.
That was entirely organized byteenagers who kind of rose to
the occasion, yeah, and really,in a very effective and
efficient way, helped a lot offamilies.
Joy Gruver (16:17):
Yeah, that's amazing , I didn't know that.
Allan Marks (16:19):
And they got out in front of what then became an
outpouring, just a reallyamazing outpouring of generosity
and stuff that starts showingup across the region, where
stores were giving things awayand people were giving things
away and gyms were filling upwith clothing for like the 26
families at the gym that myfamily belongs to lost homes,
(16:40):
and it was amazing and Joy.
I'm interested, if you could,from your perspective as a
professional working onsustainability in fashion, to
see how the brands, to see howthe community showed up for each
other to share, and then alsothere's a lot of stuff right.
So, as you were looking thisthrough your eyes as a citizen,
(17:02):
as a neighbor, but then also asa professional, what are your
takeaways or memories of seeingall these things showing up?
Joy Gruver (17:09):
Yeah, it's funny.
So I actually talked to acompany called Homeboy Threads
too.
I reached out to them because-.
Allan Marks (17:14):
Amazing organization in downtown Los
Angeles.
Joy Gruver (17:16):
They're awesome, so awesome.
So they are a company, anorganization that gives work to
people that were formerlyincarcerated, teaches them how
to get back on their feet.
So they have a HomeboyElectronics and they have
Homeboy Threads.
Allan Marks (17:33):
And Homeboy Industries and Homegirl Cafe.
It's really something worthchecking out if you're not
familiar with them.
Joy Gruver (17:39):
I saw it in LAX, the Homeboy Cafe.
I bought some food from there.
It was delicious.
But I reached out to Homeboybecause I was like they must
have a bunch of garments toothat they could donate.
And so my friends there atHomeboy they were on it as well,
communicating with people fromthe Palisades and the community
(18:02):
and so, and then my concern toowas, oh my God, they're going to
have so much leftover rightStuff like which is great.
That's a great problem to have.
So I had asked Homeboy, likeare you going to be able to take
that?
So they will.
They ended up, I think, with alot of the garments.
I suggested to Maria, let'smake that donation over to
(18:26):
Homeboy, maybe they can helpfind another home for it.
And so I know Homeboy wasinvolved too in that whole
process.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
It's actually interesting you mentioned that,
though, because in talking topeople in disaster recovery not
just in California, but I meanaround the country from Hawaii
to North Carolina Excess donatedclothing is actually a problem.
Joy Gruver (18:51):
It is.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
And where does it go and can it be efficiently reused
or recycled or find a new home,and if not, what are the
environmental consequences ofthat?
That's actually been somethingthat people have looked at.
I don't know if you've.
Joy Gruver (19:03):
That's my world.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, so I don't know if you have any thoughts on
ways that could be helped.
Joy Gruver (19:09):
Yeah, I mean so.
I work for Eastman.
We're a company that is reallyfocused on finding solutions for
circularity, so we makematerial-to-material conversions
, so being able to take mixedwaste materials and convert it
into something that you can useagain.
Allan Marks (19:27):
What is mixed waste materials?
Convert it into something thatyou can use again.
What is mixed waste materials?
Yeah, yeah For example, noproblem.
Joy Gruver (19:31):
So right now our technology takes a lot yarn
which then gets put intoclothing.
So our NIA platform is what Iwork on.
(19:56):
So, and cellulose acetate getsused for lots of things
sunglasses, that's where mostpeople might have heard of it,
but anyway, yeah.
So we have this technologywhere we take mixed waste so it
could be plastic waste too likethat can't be mechanically
recycled, where we can feed itthrough our carbon renewal
technology and output newmaterial from it.
(20:18):
So the idea of doing materialto material conversions, I think
, is where we need to go as asociety, not necessarily just
waste to energy or waste to fuel.
The idea of converting it intosomething else.
That's like the holy grail.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
And are there sustainability techniques that
can be used higher up for theoriginal materials, so that they
are easier to feed into aprocess like yours when they're
at the end of their life?
Joy Gruver (20:43):
Oh yeah, so there's a lot of the idea of design for
circularity right now.
So that's heavy right now, ofwhat we in the textile world are
working on.
It's all about education, right, like what kind of dyes are you
using?
What kind of finishes are youusing?
Because those can influence theend of life.
You know how do you mark thegarment so you actually know
(21:07):
what the content is right, and alot of people tear away those
labels.
So it's like that's becausethey itch.
Yeah, right, some of them do,some of them don't, but yes, yes
, it gets annoying for a lot ofpeople.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
But that can be printed on the garment instead
of on a separate tag.
Joy Gruver (21:20):
Yeah, so there's like great technologies coming
out there in the market and soI'm working with a lot of folks
on those kind of missions and alot of that actually is being
kind of brought from thegovernment itself, like the
state of California has EPR onthat.
So we, which is extendedproducer responsibility, so
(21:42):
brands are going to have to beheld liable for end of life
solutions for their garments,your garments, what you're
wearing today, if you want tosell in the state of California.
And it's all happening inEurope and it'll continue to
move, I think, across thiscountry.
So, yeah, I think there's lotsof companies working on new
technologies.
(22:03):
We're fortunate, working forEastman, that we're running at
scale today.
We do have some limitationstoday around textile, taking
back textile waste.
We've done some demonstrationprojects and hopefully we
continue that mission offiguring out how to unlock mixed
textile waste.
It's not easy, right?
If it was easy, it would bedone.
Allan Marks (22:24):
You said running at scale.
What does that mean, Joy?
Joy Gruver (22:27):
Yeah, it means being able to take large, like you
know, a container of wastematerial, waste garments, and
feeding it through our process.
So that's what I mean at scale.
Some people are doing, you know, kind of very small scale, lab
scale still.
Allan Marks (22:44):
Which is important for learning and testing.
But to get to scale to look atthe, which is important for
learning and testing.
But to get to scale to look atthe size of the problem and the
commercial scale allows you tohave.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
you've heard of economies of scale, right?
Sure, it allows you to bringthe unit cost down, and that
makes it much more affordableand, frankly, profitable at some
point.
Joy Gruver (22:59):
At some point, I mean right now, it's not super
profitable.
It's not profitable.
Allan Marks (23:05):
Yeah, so Joy.
As we think about thesustainability, as we think
about the component parts thatyou've just described, if
someone listening wants to learnlike if I want to make sure I'm
buying stuff from anorganization that's partnering
with you, or others that areresponsibly sourcing these
materials, or if we just want tolearn more about this, who are
(23:27):
the leaders that you would pointto right now?
I know there's a lot of groups.
Everyone's trying to figurethis out, or most people are
trying to figure this out, butwho are the ones that are kind
of taking a lead in your eyesthat we could look to for
inspiration, for learning?
Joy Gruver (23:38):
Like brands or publications.
Allan Marks (23:41):
I mean certainly brands Like if I want to buy
Naya.
I brands Like if I want to buyNaya.
I'm not going and buying Naya,right, I'm buying products of
others or recycling or findingused from these places Like
where can I be looking to?
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Or, for that matter, regulators too, For example
California.
I know on the website.
Yeah, I think that.
Joy Gruver (24:01):
Well, looking at your brand I mean brands if
they're a sustainable company,they're telling their story,
right, they're going to betelling that story.
So I think it's important forpeople to look at your labels.
You know, don't just buysomething because it looks cute
or feels good.
Go into that label.
Take that next step and look atthe hang tag.
(24:21):
Look at the label, understandthe ethos of the brand and who
they are, and if they representyour same ethos Like as far as
they talk about their laborpractices, they talk about how
they go about their materialchoices, right, some brands tell
(24:41):
a better story than others, butI think, look, see what's
important to you and what youvalue.
Like, some people just don'tlike synthetics, right.
So look at that label and youknow, see what the content is.
But so, I see, do your homework, and a lot of people don't do
that.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Let me ask you on that question.
So let's just take twohypothetical textiles right.
One is vegetable, dyed natural.
You know it's an animal, it'seither cotton or maybe it's an
animal wool of some kind, mm-hmmUm.
And the other one is asynthetic but made in a
relatively efficient, low-carbonway For your process and for
(25:24):
circularity.
Is the natural necessarilybetter or are there some
advantages to having somethingcoming into the process that can
be reprocessed and reused thatalready was made out of a
chemical process?
Joy Gruver (25:35):
Well, there's technologies now that can scale
for polyester, for synthetics,and there's technologies that
scale for natural fibers, forcircularity.
So the hard part is whenthey're mixed materials, right,
I would say that there's like nospecific, like holy grail,
(25:57):
right it's.
If you want a product that'sgoing to last, like I keep my
products for a long time, likeoh my God, these jeans.
I put them on this morning.
I was like these are like eightyears old, now nine years old
and I'm like proud of myself.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I've been told you never throw anything away.
Well, you know, maybe that'syour name.
Is time.
Joy Gruver (26:16):
But so you might want to look at synthetics,
right, if you want to hold yourmaterials for a longer period of
time.
Some of those natural dyesdon't necessarily the colors
don't last as long, and that'sokay, like you might be fine
with that.
But again, reading your labels,understanding and figuring out
(26:38):
what's important to you and howyou're going to use that garment
, I think can help make thechoice Right.
Did I answer that?
Allan Marks (26:44):
Yeah, Okay, so a theme we've been exploring in
these podcast discussions isresilience.
We've been talking about theimportance of community and
resilience being founded inkindness and generosity, and
this is the first conversationwe've kind of pulled out of just
community response andactivation to different types of
(27:07):
resilience and sustainability.
So Joy, as you're thinkingabout a resilient community like
coming out of the fires, butalso outside of crisis what do
you think are the importantparts of it that we need to have
in place to be in the world youwant to live in or you want
your kid to be living in?
Joy Gruver (27:24):
I think, like being prepared, like one thing that
this taught me is I was notprepared at all, like I didn't
have all my documents in theright place, like I think that
this, what happened, was a greatwake up call for others to be
(27:47):
prepared for situations, becauseyou never know what's going to
happen.
And so when you think aboutresilience is I've had to
overcome some really hardshipsin my life, right, and I feel
like you can go one way and belike the poor me and feel sorry
(28:08):
for yourself, which is okay.
That's going to happen as partof the process, but part of the
resilience is lifting yourselfup from those dark days and
moving on and being appreciativefor what we actually have and
relying on your friends and yourcommunity and not being afraid
to ask for, like, what you needto help you get up tomorrow, you
(28:33):
know.
Allan Marks (28:34):
And that's really hard for many.
For me, it still is to askanyone for anything, Because
we're taught that right, andthat's assuming I know what I
need which often I don't.
So how did you learn to do that?
Joy Gruver (28:49):
I don't know.
Allan Marks (28:50):
Still figuring it out.
Joy Gruver (28:54):
I don't know.
I mean, not every day is easy,right, but at the end of the day
, people are relying on you, youhave responsibilities.
You got to get up every day andyou got to be okay with giving
away a blanket that you've had,you know and making sacrifices.
Allan Marks (29:14):
We didn't know that this was your blanket, that you
had packed as a go-bag.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
You were before the blanket was an important part of
the story.
I want to come back to that.
Tell me about the blanket.
Joy Gruver (29:22):
Well, it's so funny because I put it so I've had
that blanket for a long time.
Allan Marks (29:25):
I don't know that.
Nina's given it back to you.
No, I don't want it.
Joy Gruver (29:28):
It makes my heart so happy.
So there's been some situationsthat have happened in my life
where, like Like this is a funnystory I'll just share.
We're probably over time, but Ihad a scarf this scarf that I
bought years ago, right, and Iloved this scarf, it was just
awesome.
And I was driving in LA one dayand it was a cold day this is
(29:49):
years ago and this woman on thestreet looked like she was
freezing and she was right nextto me and I'm stopped at a
stoplight and I just look at herand I just couldn't, I, I took
my scarf off.
I gave it to her and I startedcrying as I'm driving away and
I'm like I like it's just Idon't know.
(30:10):
So, um, it made me feel good,though, like, at the end of the
day, like these are the thingswe need to do for each other,
right, right, and it made youfeel good, regardless of her
reaction.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Yeah, whether she appreciated it or had gratitude
to you or expressed anything,yeah, it didn't matter, it
didn't care Like.
Joy Gruver (30:27):
I felt at that moment she needed it.
She looked freezing and sheneeded help.
You saw a need and you rose tothe occasion.
Yeah, and then I actuallystarted when I would travel to
colder communities, because Itravel for work, especially like
(30:48):
I go up to Vancouver and Ibring an extra scarf and I put
it on a homeless person when Iwas walking around.
I didn't do that this year, butI did do it last year.
Anyway, I think like if youcould find something, those
little things that you can do tohelp society, so the blanket
society, so the blanket.
So I had put a bunch ofblankets in the car in
preparation, had I had to leavemy home and because of those
dang alerts I was getting, andso when we went to bring you the
(31:10):
basket, I actually was like,should I give him this blanket?
Because I mean, why not givethe blanket?
And it wasn't the one my momhad knit, which she would have
killed me because she only mademe one so far.
But so, yeah, I gave it.
And the reaction of Nina andseeing your family's reaction
(31:37):
over a blanket, that just warmsmy heart.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
The blanket is a symbol of love.
It is Somebody giving something.
Allan Marks (31:46):
I know and it's seeing warmth.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
And then for Nina.
I cannot speak for her, butthere has got to be something of
I have a need and it's beingseen, I'm being seen.
Joy Gruver (31:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
That's got to be important.
Joy Gruver (32:00):
Yeah.
Allan Marks (32:04):
We have another blanket story.
That happened at the same timebecause Nina was aware that she
didn't have a blanket and we'removing from hotel to hotel to
Airbnb to whatever for monthsand she knew she wanted a
blanket.
So she reached out to my auntmy Aunt Jean quilts blankets and
she goes Aunt, do you have ablanket?
(32:25):
Because all of my family istrying to figure out how they
can help and be present andstuff, and so, after it took
about a month for this to comethrough because they wanted to
make sure we were at the rightaddress my aunt had quilted this
one quilt for her husband whopassed away, and this was the
quilt that he was wrapped in forthe years in the home he was in
(32:48):
that was supporting him.
She sent us that blanket.
So we have that quilt, which isstunning, it's beautiful and I
cry every time I talk to my auntabout this.
But nina's like that's almosttoo like.
It's almost a display piece ofthe love that we have in the
house and every now and thenwe'll wrap it around us, but
(33:09):
it's the blanket you broughtthat has just became, uh, really
, really important to hertangible evidence of the love.
Yeah, yeah, she and the dog werewrapped in it this morning when
I left the house.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
And I think there's a reason.
Charles Schulz drew Linus witha security blanket and it was
not called an insecurity blanketbecause it did in fact provide
security.
Joy Gruver (33:31):
Yes, this is so true .
It's funny how deep we can geton a blanket right and how
meaningful a blanket is.
Allan Marks (33:39):
So for the Shared Ground podcast that we're doing,
we have a colleague, corey,who's built a lot of the
graphics and the brand and themerch page and all this stuff,
and Corey went through everypicture I took for three months
and I've been taking a lot ofpictures of these moments of
kindness, one of the I just hada chance to write and substack
about you and with you and Ninawrapped in the blanket, and
(34:01):
that's the picture Corey grabbed.
He grabbed two pictures to puton the front of the website.
One was this hazy image of asunset the day after the fire,
the stunning sunset.
The second picture is the oneof you and Nina and that's the
one that called through.
And, alan, I think you're rightthat it's that image that many
of us hold in common of thisblanket that protects us.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Well, it's warmth in two ways it's the physical
warmth, but it's also the humanwarmth.
Allan Marks (34:25):
Yeah, yeah, and I suspect that people listening to
this conversation might hearwhere some of that warmth came
from, right?
So a question that we're alsoasking a lot of people.
We're talking to Joy hope.
So we're in a nutty time in theworld.
We're coming out of these fireslike bad things are happening.
There's tough stuff.
Where are you seeing hope inthe world, in your community, in
(34:47):
the world, like what's keepingyou grooving in these hard times
?
Joy Gruver (34:54):
The kids right, like my kids, give me lots of hope
for our future.
Your kid gives me hope.
I think the resilience of ourkids help provide that level of
hope and I see, even like for meworking for the company I do,
(35:14):
I'll plug them too because theydeserve it.
I'll plug them too because theydeserve it.
We're trying to do really crazydynamic things in my industry
and in my company.
So I am excited every day towake up and, trust me, I had to
wake up at 4.30 yesterdaymorning.
People don't do that unless youhave hope and you believe in
(35:36):
what you're doing, in themission, that it's doing
something.
So it also gives me hope thatcompanies like mine are finding
solutions and investing insolutions to help clean up our
world.
So yeah, I guess I find hope ina lot of things.
I'm definitely a glass halffull kind of gal, I mean a name
(35:58):
like.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Joy.
If you weren't named Joy, thatwould be less of a pressure,
exactly, no pressure.
Joy Gruver (36:04):
It's seriously right .
It's a tough name to live up to, I'm sure, but I try to serve
it well, so yeah.
Allan Marks (36:12):
And I'd say, an addition of hope for me after a
lot of these conversations isseeing that folks like you are
taking an interest in the youngkids to be able to help them
kind of see pathways, see hopethemselves in that you're
showing up and part of aLinkedIn audience.
That is right, it's reallygreat and I'm really grateful
(36:35):
that you came to join us today.
Thanks for everything you'vedone for my family and for
people around us and also justbeing our friend.
So we're going to.
We've written about some morestuff with you and I hope
everyone listening to thispodcast has a chance to
understand why we, alan and I,were really excited for you to
join us.
So thank you so much for beinghere today, joy, yes, thank you,
Joy.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
thank you so much.
Joy Gruver (36:56):
Thank you.
You give me hope too.
Look at what you're trying,what you're accomplishing here.
Like this gives people hopethat they can get through these
situations, like you and yourfamily are getting through Well,
and they can get throughsituations, absolutely, I know.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
You know, sean, I was talking to you about one of my
favorite books, you know, byViktor Frankl Man's Search for
Meaning, man's Search forMeaning.
And this attitude we bring tothe worst situations influences
the response much more than thesituation itself.
Allan Marks (37:28):
And in that book which I think is a great way to
take us out of this podcast, andI think you exemplify this Joy
Frankl talks about how thecharacter of a person is
revealed and how they choose torespond to suffering Not that
that because we all suffer, andalso he talks about how there's
(37:48):
there's no relative suffering,my suffering isn't worse than
your suffering, or but it's howwe respond in those times.
And I'd say for us, how yourespond in those times is
directly influenced by thecommunity that you're blessed to
have around you yes, so thatindividual response creates that
community amen.
Thank you, joyce, so much fortaking the time together and
thank you for joining us in thisepisode of Shared Ground.
(38:09):
We hope you continue listening,and I'm Sean and really glad to
have this day with y'all.
I'm Alan, thanks much.
This has been another episodeof Shared Ground, a podcast
about resilience and communityFollow us on your favorite
platform or learn more atsharedgroundcom.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
That's shared-groundcom.
This is Shared Ground, a podcast about
resilience and community.
I'm Alan MarksAnd I'm Sean Knierim.
Today we have yet anotherperson we really respect an d
like.
Joy Gruver is joining us.
.
(00:21):
This is a loaded question, god.
I feel like I'm a lot of thingsright.
I think as a working mom likeyou're pulled in a lot of
directions, so depending onwhere I'm at is kind of who I am
at th moment.
Who do you want to be right now?
Joy Gruver (00:39):
I want to be interesting, right, I want to.
Sean Knierim (00:43):
That's our hope as well.
Joy Gruver (00:44):
Right, that's the goal is telling, I guess, yet
another part of my story and mylife and how it relates back to
you and your life.
So, yeah, I want to sharestories.
I guess I'm a communicator bynature, so the fact of
communicating in a platform likethis is exciting and
(01:05):
interesting and different thanwhat I do in my normal world.
Sean Knierim (01:09):
C an you give us just a quick view of what's the
normal world look like, and thenwe'll jump into stories.
Joy Gruver (01:13):
Sure, so I'm a mom of two teenagers, a working mom.
I do business development for achemical company focused on
sustainability.
I work in the fibers area forour business.
So I work with a lot of brandson the West Coast helping to
pull through from our technologyinto their supply chains, and
(01:37):
it's a pretty dynamic role.
But I've been doing it for awhile and it's fun, keeps me
going, makes me wake up everymorning.
Sean Knierim (01:45):
Great.
Well, we're glad you chose tospend part of the day here with
us.
So, as a lot of these episodesare starting as we're getting
this podcast going, we'relooking back at the fires and
what happened in Los Angeles inearly January and something
we're asking each person we'retalking to is like, as you think
(02:07):
back to the 7th to the 8th ofJanuary, can you walk us through
what you remember?
What were you feeling?
What was life feeling like foryou, for your family, back in
early January?
Joy Gruver (02:11):
Yeah.
So for me I'm going to relateit back to your family, because
when I heard about the firesthat they were in the Palisades,
the first thing I thought ofwas your daughter.
Having met your beautifuldaughter last November doing the
school-wide clothing swap andsharing the sustainability story
to all the students that cameto our event that day, I got to
(02:37):
talking to some of thesestudents and what went through
my mind as I saw and heard aboutthe fires is like I hope these
kids are okay, you know, andthey were beautiful kids and
full of like questions aboutsustainability and wanting to
know what I do, and they werejust very inquisitive kids and
(02:58):
all I can think about was theycould potentially be losing
everything that they have.
Sean Knierim (03:04):
And to paint a picture on that, this wasn't
just Joy showing up at a highschool and talking to a handful
of kids.
You and Maria, my daughter, puttogether a full-on panel with
four other badass professionalwomen that Maria was moderating,
but you and Maria put on a fullclothing swap in the afternoon
to start thinking aboutsustainability, which is going
to come back into this story theamount of stuff that was lost,
(03:27):
but also the amount of stuffthat showed back up.
Yeah, so you had a deepconnection with my kid and with
all of these others.
So back to the fires arehappening and you start thinking
about this community.
Joy Gruver (03:39):
So I think about the community, I think about your
daughter and you.
But so I sent Maria a messageand I said you know, are you
guys okay?
If you need a place to stay?
You know I'm in the South Bay,come stay with me.
I have a pullout couch, likewhatever you guys need.
And she wrote that you know youguys had it handled and you
(04:02):
were in a hotel and it hurt mefor you guys going through that.
And so I think, with tragedysometimes like it can also bring
beauty and so showing thecommunity how like you can show
up.
I mean I live 25 miles south ofyou but I could see the
(04:27):
Palisades burning from my house.
I have a line direct to thePalisades from my hillside and
it was just unbelievable.
So I think that me justreaching out to Maria, and I
(04:49):
think you guys were still likein shock of like everything
happening, so she couldn't quiteget back to me on what her
needs were.
But I gave it a couple of daysand decided, like with my
daughter, like let's go shopping, let's build a kit for Maria
and let's see what we can donateand help.
And so at that point mydaughter was like, yeah, let's
(05:12):
go shopping.
So we went to Target, got abunch of things, and actually I
even want to take this back acouple of steps, because when
the fires were happening, we,even 25 miles south in the South
Bay, were getting alerts on ourphones right.
And all I can think about islike how is a fire possibly
(05:33):
going to be happening here?
But then you hear about theseterrible arsonists, right, and
so I'm thinking all the firedepartment is on the other side
of the city, like if they'rejust bad people, they will, like
, put PV on fire in the SouthBay.
So I was thinking when I gotthese alerts, like, oh my gosh,
(05:55):
this is what's happening.
There could potentially bearsonists.
So I started throwing stuff inmy car just to be prepared, and
I threw a couple of blankets inthe car right, the blanket's
part of the story.
And then that weekend, when mydaughter and I went shopping at
Target, we got a bunch of stuffand, by the way, there was no
(06:16):
fires in my area.
Sean Knierim (06:19):
The South Bay was safe.
Joy Gruver (06:20):
The South Bay was safe, yes, but that weekend we
found out where you guys wereand so we drove to where you
were and I wanted my daughter tojust be a part of this.
A I wanted her to meet yourdaughter, because your daughter
is a pretty amazing young woman,and then, b, I want her to feel
(06:41):
how important it is to helpcommunity, and I think it's
really important to help ourteenagers.
You know, teenagers can be kindof selfish, which we all were
selfish, right as teenagers.
That's kind of part of it.
Some older people are.
Allan Marks (06:55):
Many of us still are.
I don't think they have amonopoly on being selfish.
Joy Gruver (06:59):
Right, right, right.
That's very true, very true Infact in the country.
Allan Marks (07:03):
In many ways, I think that one of the things
I've seen I've seen it also notjust in the fire response
selfishness in many ways thatI'm seeing in her cohort than I
(07:26):
think I remember seeing in in mygeneration when we were younger
that's awesome.
Joy Gruver (07:31):
Yeah, that's awesome and certainly, I think, less
selfishness I see in people myage today well, see, I feel like
this next generation, they'rejust they're gonna be kick-ass,
right, they're gonna.
I already are, I, they, theyalready are in so many ways.
In some ways, they're justthey're going to be kick-ass
right, they're going to, theyalready are.
Allan Marks (07:46):
They already are in so many ways and in some ways
because they're able toassimilate things from so many
different ways.
So I'm just you know, I'mlistening to you talk about the
story of your experience, whathappened with the fire.
I'm also thinking behind it,before that, when you were at
the high school, and the waythat you were bringing in your
experience with this andchemicals and fabrics and
synthetics versus natural fibersand dyes, and how does all that
(08:09):
play into a supply chain?
You're talking to kids thatkind of get it, because they're
actually attuned to all thosedifferent things.
They're consumers, maybe morethan they are producers, but
they care about environmentalimpacts, they care about labor
and the integrity of supplychains and making sure that
their stuff if it's really cheapwhich well, it's nice, but why
(08:29):
is it cheap?
And my daughter will sometimessay, if it's too cheap, don't
buy it because that means it'sslave labor and whether that's
right or not, there is thisawareness of the different
strands that they're able tosynthesize and pull together.
Joy Gruver (08:43):
What I loved about that day, too, is we had over a
hundred students in thatauditorium.
I'll go to events, speakingevents and with adults there'll
be no questions in the audience.
Interesting, that day therewere so many questions in the
audience and in fact we weretaking it beyond the bell.
The bell rang and we're stilltalking and they're coming up to
(09:06):
me afterwards asking questionsand so, like adults don't do
that, this is fantastic thatthese kids are doing this, yeah.
Allan Marks (09:14):
Real learners.
I think one of the advantagesperhaps of the access that we
have now to so much informationso quickly just on our phones or
whatever, is it allows thelicense for unbridled curiosity,
yeah, and there's a connectionin this generation to what they
want to do with their time andtheir life and their resources,
like, not only the consumerpiece, but where are we going to
(09:36):
work in the world and how arewe going to insist that these
jobs are going to be treating usor we're going to be doing?
Yeah, and what's interestinghere?
So, as we think back to you andyour daughter your own young
daughter coming over to find usin one of our many Airbnbs this
actually is a bridge between thetwo of you that you guys might
not know.
So you come over, joy, and youhave the care package, which was
(09:58):
spectacular.
You brought these blankets andwe'll put a picture on the
website of my wife taking one ofthese blankets and it became
her security blanket.
Last night she was stillwrapped in this blanket.
This became a security blanket.
It's the right image here.
It became really important toher and we have this beautiful
picture of the two of youhugging each other at a dinner.
(10:19):
But you also brought a box fromone of your brand partnership
Like.
So you had been reached out toby one of the groups you work
with and they were trying tofigure out how to funnel
contributions in and you askedlike, how can we do this?
Can I do it through Maria?
So can you talk a bit aboutthat?
What you were hearing from thatbrand, yeah, and then I'll be
able to extend this into.
(10:40):
I mean I'm wearing.
This was the first t-shirt Igot.
That wasn't one of the two thatwere in my go bag, so I'm
wearing that proudly today as aMarmot fan, but these things
funneled through my kid becauseof you.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Joy Gruver (10:53):
Yeah, no, that's true, I forgot about the box.
So because Boxes Okay.
So I have been in the textileapparel industry for a while
I've been doing it for like 28years and so I have a lot of
great contacts.
And so I also, after talking toyour daughter, was like let me
(11:15):
reach out to all these brandsand see if I can get
contributions.
Let's get donations right.
And so I reached out to a lotof these outdoor brands I don't
know that I can say their names,but and reached out to some
fashion brands, and a lot ofthem actually were doing their
own thing to help the people ofAltadena and Pacific Palisades.
(11:39):
But Marmot stepped up and theysent me a couple of boxes to
start with.
And then my contact there waslike, her name is Kim, by the
way.
Sean Knierim (11:48):
Thank you, Kim.
Joy Gruver (11:50):
Yeah, she's amazing.
I saw her last week and shemakes my heart happy.
So Kim just got on it.
This woman, by the way, she waslike in jury duty for like a
month and she still managed totake time to get these boxes out
and deliver down to me.
So like they're just amazing.
(12:10):
So kudos to Marmot.
And then, yeah, I was able tobring those boxes over to you
and I think I just thought I waslike helping, but I didn't.
I guess I didn't reallyunderstand how deeply I was
helping and how much that meantto you.
And like you showing me thejacket, and your son was showing
(12:31):
me the jacket that he waswearing.
Sean Knierim (12:33):
My son didn't bring a jacket out of the house
and there's a few stories ofjackets that appeared in his
life.
But then we have this huge boxof Marmot gear.
We all are like I had a t-shirt, aiden got a jacket.
I think Maria grabbed somethingthat fit her Nothing.
My wife, like I had a t-shirt,aiden got a jacket.
I think Maria grabbed somethingthat fit her Nothing.
My wife didn't see anything shewanted.
So we had all of these amazingitems.
Allan Marks (12:52):
And so, just to be clear, for those who haven't
heard prior episodes of thepodcast is after your family
lost your home and all theclothes and things that you had
before were lost.
So at this point I had a go bag,I had a small soccer club
satchel, and that's the onlyclothes I had, and each of the
rest Maria did a better jobaccumulating stuff, because
she's better at everything thanmost of us.
So we have this box and each ofus got something.
(13:15):
I mean, this was the firstclean shirt I had in four days,
which was pretty nice for lotsof people around us, nice for
everybody and Alan, I'm going tothrow this over to you to tell
this story because you werethere, I only watched it.
So Maria has this stuff andshe's trying to figure out what
to do because she's stuck inthis small apartment.
School's not going on.
She wants to do things insteadof sitting around with her
(13:37):
parents who are going crazy.
So she and her friends start aclothing exchange.
One of the very first, thefirst weekend after the fires,
maria and her friends puttogether a social media campaign
to let people know to come toher friend's house.
The mom did not know untilpeople started showing up that
this was happening in her houseand the marmot clothes and other
clothes that you brought thatwe weren't able to use, plus
(13:59):
donations from all over startflowing in and these girls and a
couple of boys but it wasmainly young women start giving
this away to people in thecommunity coming in that needed
help I would say more than giveit away.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I mean, I was impressed by the coordination.
Allan Marks (14:13):
My daughter and I went over, which I didn't know
you were coming.
You heard about this, so alanand his daughter show up to to
volunteer and support maria andit's, and it wasn't really after
the fires, it was sort of stillduring them in a way.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
This is the the Saturday, so the bulk of the
fire near the Palisades was done, the house where you held this
in.
Allan Marks (14:33):
We were still under evacuation.
We were still under evacuation.
We were in Santa Monica.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
And there was still embers coming down.
In fact, one of the things wewere doing was trying to when we
had donated clothes or donatedluggage which some people had
brought because families needthat too, you know, duffel bags
and so forth was trying to movethat and keep it clean because
the embers kept getting on topof it Of course no one wants a
bunch of you know, ashy clothes,especially when they're new,
and a lot of people donated newthings.
It wasn't just cleaning outtheir closets.
(14:58):
That was appreciated, but whatwas impressive to me was the way
the teenagers that wereorganizing it many from Pali
High, many who had lost theirown homes were focused on
thinking what do other peopleneed?
What are the families we'regiving this to actually need?
So let's find out.
(15:19):
And they're connecting on theirphones with everybody and
saying, well, look, so we havethis family.
He has a father, he's an XXL, heneeds, like, really big stuff
and he likes baggy clothes.
They've got two kids.
You know the mom needs this andshe's this size.
You know, do we have any shoesthat will fit that?
People have donated a lot ofshoes, especially women's shoes,
athletic shoes and gettingthings that would fit the sizes
(15:41):
and personalities to the extentthey knew them of the specific
families that were receiving thedonations.
And at the very end we hadabsolutely so much clothing and
some of us then drove over toGoodwill to donate the rest of
it because there was only somuch you could do after this,
because a lot of the familiesthat had reached out and said
they were in need had alreadycommunicated that, but the
(16:02):
donations were still coming in.
That was entirely organized byteenagers who kind of rose to
the occasion, yeah, and really,in a very effective and
efficient way, helped a lot offamilies.
Joy Gruver (16:17):
Yeah, that's amazing , I didn't know that.
Allan Marks (16:19):
And they got out in front of what then became an
outpouring, just a reallyamazing outpouring of generosity
and stuff that starts showingup across the region, where
stores were giving things awayand people were giving things
away and gyms were filling upwith clothing for like the 26
families at the gym that myfamily belongs to lost homes,
(16:40):
and it was amazing and Joy.
I'm interested, if you could,from your perspective as a
professional working onsustainability in fashion, to
see how the brands, to see howthe community showed up for each
other to share, and then alsothere's a lot of stuff right.
So, as you were looking thisthrough your eyes as a citizen,
(17:02):
as a neighbor, but then also asa professional, what are your
takeaways or memories of seeingall these things showing up?
Joy Gruver (17:09):
Yeah, it's funny.
So I actually talked to acompany called Homeboy Threads
too.
I reached out to them because-.
Allan Marks (17:14):
Amazing organization in downtown Los
Angeles.
Joy Gruver (17:16):
They're awesome, so awesome.
So they are a company, anorganization that gives work to
people that were formerlyincarcerated, teaches them how
to get back on their feet.
So they have a HomeboyElectronics and they have
Homeboy Threads.
Allan Marks (17:33):
And Homeboy Industries and Homegirl Cafe.
It's really something worthchecking out if you're not
familiar with them.
Joy Gruver (17:39):
I saw it in LAX, the Homeboy Cafe.
I bought some food from there.
It was delicious.
But I reached out to Homeboybecause I was like they must
have a bunch of garments toothat they could donate.
And so my friends there atHomeboy they were on it as well,
communicating with people fromthe Palisades and the community
(18:02):
and so, and then my concern toowas, oh my God, they're going to
have so much leftover rightStuff like which is great.
That's a great problem to have.
So I had asked Homeboy, likeare you going to be able to take
that?
So they will.
They ended up, I think, with alot of the garments.
I suggested to Maria, let'smake that donation over to
(18:26):
Homeboy, maybe they can helpfind another home for it.
And so I know Homeboy wasinvolved too in that whole
process.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
It's actually interesting you mentioned that,
though, because in talking topeople in disaster recovery not
just in California, but I meanaround the country from Hawaii
to North Carolina Excess donatedclothing is actually a problem.
Joy Gruver (18:51):
It is.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
And where does it go and can it be efficiently reused
or recycled or find a new home,and if not, what are the
environmental consequences ofthat?
That's actually been somethingthat people have looked at.
I don't know if you've.
Joy Gruver (19:03):
That's my world.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, so I don't know if you have any thoughts on
ways that could be helped.
Joy Gruver (19:09):
Yeah, I mean so.
I work for Eastman.
We're a company that is reallyfocused on finding solutions for
circularity, so we makematerial-to-material conversions
, so being able to take mixedwaste materials and convert it
into something that you can useagain.
Allan Marks (19:27):
What is mixed waste materials?
Convert it into something thatyou can use again.
What is mixed waste materials?
Yeah, yeah For example, noproblem.
Joy Gruver (19:31):
So right now our technology takes a lot yarn
which then gets put intoclothing.
So our NIA platform is what Iwork on.
(19:56):
So, and cellulose acetate getsused for lots of things
sunglasses, that's where mostpeople might have heard of it,
but anyway, yeah.
So we have this technologywhere we take mixed waste so it
could be plastic waste too likethat can't be mechanically
recycled, where we can feed itthrough our carbon renewal
technology and output newmaterial from it.
(20:18):
So the idea of doing materialto material conversions, I think
, is where we need to go as asociety, not necessarily just
waste to energy or waste to fuel.
The idea of converting it intosomething else.
That's like the holy grail.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
And are there sustainability techniques that
can be used higher up for theoriginal materials, so that they
are easier to feed into aprocess like yours when they're
at the end of their life?
Joy Gruver (20:43):
Oh yeah, so there's a lot of the idea of design for
circularity right now.
So that's heavy right now, ofwhat we in the textile world are
working on.
It's all about education, right, like what kind of dyes are you
using?
What kind of finishes are youusing?
Because those can influence theend of life.
You know how do you mark thegarment so you actually know
(21:07):
what the content is right, and alot of people tear away those
labels.
So it's like that's becausethey itch.
Yeah, right, some of them do,some of them don't, but yes, yes
, it gets annoying for a lot ofpeople.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
But that can be printed on the garment instead
of on a separate tag.
Joy Gruver (21:20):
Yeah, so there's like great technologies coming
out there in the market and soI'm working with a lot of folks
on those kind of missions and alot of that actually is being
kind of brought from thegovernment itself, like the
state of California has EPR onthat.
So we, which is extendedproducer responsibility, so
(21:42):
brands are going to have to beheld liable for end of life
solutions for their garments,your garments, what you're
wearing today, if you want tosell in the state of California.
And it's all happening inEurope and it'll continue to
move, I think, across thiscountry.
So, yeah, I think there's lotsof companies working on new
technologies.
(22:03):
We're fortunate, working forEastman, that we're running at
scale today.
We do have some limitationstoday around textile, taking
back textile waste.
We've done some demonstrationprojects and hopefully we
continue that mission offiguring out how to unlock mixed
textile waste.
It's not easy, right?
If it was easy, it would bedone.
Allan Marks (22:24):
You said running at scale.
What does that mean, Joy?
Joy Gruver (22:27):
Yeah, it means being able to take large, like you
know, a container of wastematerial, waste garments, and
feeding it through our process.
So that's what I mean at scale.
Some people are doing, you know, kind of very small scale, lab
scale still.
Allan Marks (22:44):
Which is important for learning and testing.
But to get to scale to look atthe, which is important for
learning and testing.
But to get to scale to look atthe size of the problem and the
commercial scale allows you tohave.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
you've heard of economies of scale, right?
Sure, it allows you to bringthe unit cost down, and that
makes it much more affordableand, frankly, profitable at some
point.
Joy Gruver (22:59):
At some point, I mean right now, it's not super
profitable.
It's not profitable.
Allan Marks (23:05):
Yeah, so Joy.
As we think about thesustainability, as we think
about the component parts thatyou've just described, if
someone listening wants to learnlike if I want to make sure I'm
buying stuff from anorganization that's partnering
with you, or others that areresponsibly sourcing these
materials, or if we just want tolearn more about this, who are
(23:27):
the leaders that you would pointto right now?
I know there's a lot of groups.
Everyone's trying to figurethis out, or most people are
trying to figure this out, butwho are the ones that are kind
of taking a lead in your eyesthat we could look to for
inspiration, for learning?
Joy Gruver (23:38):
Like brands or publications.
Allan Marks (23:41):
I mean certainly brands Like if I want to buy
Naya.
I brands Like if I want to buyNaya.
I'm not going and buying Naya,right, I'm buying products of
others or recycling or findingused from these places Like
where can I be looking to?
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Or, for that matter, regulators too, For example
California.
I know on the website.
Yeah, I think that.
Joy Gruver (24:01):
Well, looking at your brand I mean brands if
they're a sustainable company,they're telling their story,
right, they're going to betelling that story.
So I think it's important forpeople to look at your labels.
You know, don't just buysomething because it looks cute
or feels good.
Go into that label.
Take that next step and look atthe hang tag.
(24:21):
Look at the label, understandthe ethos of the brand and who
they are, and if they representyour same ethos Like as far as
they talk about their laborpractices, they talk about how
they go about their materialchoices, right, some brands tell
(24:41):
a better story than others, butI think, look, see what's
important to you and what youvalue.
Like, some people just don'tlike synthetics, right.
So look at that label and youknow, see what the content is.
But so, I see, do your homework, and a lot of people don't do
that.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Let me ask you on that question.
So let's just take twohypothetical textiles right.
One is vegetable, dyed natural.
You know it's an animal, it'seither cotton or maybe it's an
animal wool of some kind, mm-hmmUm.
And the other one is asynthetic but made in a
relatively efficient, low-carbonway For your process and for
(25:24):
circularity.
Is the natural necessarilybetter or are there some
advantages to having somethingcoming into the process that can
be reprocessed and reused thatalready was made out of a
chemical process?
Joy Gruver (25:35):
Well, there's technologies now that can scale
for polyester, for synthetics,and there's technologies that
scale for natural fibers, forcircularity.
So the hard part is whenthey're mixed materials, right,
I would say that there's like nospecific, like holy grail,
(25:57):
right it's.
If you want a product that'sgoing to last, like I keep my
products for a long time, likeoh my God, these jeans.
I put them on this morning.
I was like these are like eightyears old, now nine years old
and I'm like proud of myself.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I've been told you never throw anything away.
Well, you know, maybe that'syour name.
Is time.
Joy Gruver (26:16):
But so you might want to look at synthetics,
right, if you want to hold yourmaterials for a longer period of
time.
Some of those natural dyesdon't necessarily the colors
don't last as long, and that'sokay, like you might be fine
with that.
But again, reading your labels,understanding and figuring out
(26:38):
what's important to you and howyou're going to use that garment
, I think can help make thechoice Right.
Did I answer that?
Allan Marks (26:44):
Yeah, Okay, so a theme we've been exploring in
these podcast discussions isresilience.
We've been talking about theimportance of community and
resilience being founded inkindness and generosity, and
this is the first conversationwe've kind of pulled out of just
community response andactivation to different types of
(27:07):
resilience and sustainability.
So Joy, as you're thinkingabout a resilient community like
coming out of the fires, butalso outside of crisis what do
you think are the importantparts of it that we need to have
in place to be in the world youwant to live in or you want
your kid to be living in?
Joy Gruver (27:24):
I think, like being prepared, like one thing that
this taught me is I was notprepared at all, like I didn't
have all my documents in theright place, like I think that
this, what happened, was a greatwake up call for others to be
(27:47):
prepared for situations, becauseyou never know what's going to
happen.
And so when you think aboutresilience is I've had to
overcome some really hardshipsin my life, right, and I feel
like you can go one way and belike the poor me and feel sorry
(28:08):
for yourself, which is okay.
That's going to happen as partof the process, but part of the
resilience is lifting yourselfup from those dark days and
moving on and being appreciativefor what we actually have and
relying on your friends and yourcommunity and not being afraid
to ask for, like, what you needto help you get up tomorrow, you
(28:33):
know.
Allan Marks (28:34):
And that's really hard for many.
For me, it still is to askanyone for anything, Because
we're taught that right, andthat's assuming I know what I
need which often I don't.
So how did you learn to do that?
Joy Gruver (28:49):
I don't know.
Allan Marks (28:50):
Still figuring it out.
Joy Gruver (28:54):
I don't know.
I mean, not every day is easy,right, but at the end of the day
, people are relying on you, youhave responsibilities.
You got to get up every day andyou got to be okay with giving
away a blanket that you've had,you know and making sacrifices.
Allan Marks (29:14):
We didn't know that this was your blanket, that you
had packed as a go-bag.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
You were before the blanket was an important part of
the story.
I want to come back to that.
Tell me about the blanket.
Joy Gruver (29:22):
Well, it's so funny because I put it so I've had
that blanket for a long time.
Allan Marks (29:25):
I don't know that.
Nina's given it back to you.
No, I don't want it.
Joy Gruver (29:28):
It makes my heart so happy.
So there's been some situationsthat have happened in my life
where, like Like this is a funnystory I'll just share.
We're probably over time, but Ihad a scarf this scarf that I
bought years ago, right, and Iloved this scarf, it was just
awesome.
And I was driving in LA one dayand it was a cold day this is
(29:49):
years ago and this woman on thestreet looked like she was
freezing and she was right nextto me and I'm stopped at a
stoplight and I just look at herand I just couldn't, I, I took
my scarf off.
I gave it to her and I startedcrying as I'm driving away and
I'm like I like it's just Idon't know.
(30:10):
So, um, it made me feel good,though, like, at the end of the
day, like these are the thingswe need to do for each other,
right, right, and it made youfeel good, regardless of her
reaction.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Yeah, whether she appreciated it or had gratitude
to you or expressed anything,yeah, it didn't matter, it
didn't care Like.
Joy Gruver (30:27):
I felt at that moment she needed it.
She looked freezing and sheneeded help.
You saw a need and you rose tothe occasion.
Yeah, and then I actuallystarted when I would travel to
colder communities, because Itravel for work, especially like
(30:48):
I go up to Vancouver and Ibring an extra scarf and I put
it on a homeless person when Iwas walking around.
I didn't do that this year, butI did do it last year.
Anyway, I think like if youcould find something, those
little things that you can do tohelp society, so the blanket
society, so the blanket.
So I had put a bunch ofblankets in the car in
preparation, had I had to leavemy home and because of those
dang alerts I was getting, andso when we went to bring you the
(31:10):
basket, I actually was like,should I give him this blanket?
Because I mean, why not givethe blanket?
And it wasn't the one my momhad knit, which she would have
killed me because she only mademe one so far.
But so, yeah, I gave it.
And the reaction of Nina andseeing your family's reaction
(31:37):
over a blanket, that just warmsmy heart.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
The blanket is a symbol of love.
It is Somebody giving something.
Allan Marks (31:46):
I know and it's seeing warmth.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
And then for Nina.
I cannot speak for her, butthere has got to be something of
I have a need and it's beingseen, I'm being seen.
Joy Gruver (31:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
That's got to be important.
Joy Gruver (32:00):
Yeah.
Allan Marks (32:04):
We have another blanket story.
That happened at the same timebecause Nina was aware that she
didn't have a blanket and we'removing from hotel to hotel to
Airbnb to whatever for monthsand she knew she wanted a
blanket.
So she reached out to my auntmy Aunt Jean quilts blankets and
she goes Aunt, do you have ablanket?
(32:25):
Because all of my family istrying to figure out how they
can help and be present andstuff, and so, after it took
about a month for this to comethrough because they wanted to
make sure we were at the rightaddress my aunt had quilted this
one quilt for her husband whopassed away, and this was the
quilt that he was wrapped in forthe years in the home he was in
(32:48):
that was supporting him.
She sent us that blanket.
So we have that quilt, which isstunning, it's beautiful and I
cry every time I talk to my auntabout this.
But nina's like that's almosttoo like.
It's almost a display piece ofthe love that we have in the
house and every now and thenwe'll wrap it around us, but
(33:09):
it's the blanket you broughtthat has just became, uh, really
, really important to hertangible evidence of the love.
Yeah, yeah, she and the dog werewrapped in it this morning when
I left the house.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
And I think there's a reason.
Charles Schulz drew Linus witha security blanket and it was
not called an insecurity blanketbecause it did in fact provide
security.
Joy Gruver (33:31):
Yes, this is so true .
It's funny how deep we can geton a blanket right and how
meaningful a blanket is.
Allan Marks (33:39):
So for the Shared Ground podcast that we're doing,
we have a colleague, corey,who's built a lot of the
graphics and the brand and themerch page and all this stuff,
and Corey went through everypicture I took for three months
and I've been taking a lot ofpictures of these moments of
kindness, one of the I just hada chance to write and substack
about you and with you and Ninawrapped in the blanket, and
(34:01):
that's the picture Corey grabbed.
He grabbed two pictures to puton the front of the website.
One was this hazy image of asunset the day after the fire,
the stunning sunset.
The second picture is the oneof you and Nina and that's the
one that called through.
And, alan, I think you're rightthat it's that image that many
of us hold in common of thisblanket that protects us.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Well, it's warmth in two ways it's the physical
warmth, but it's also the humanwarmth.
Allan Marks (34:25):
Yeah, yeah, and I suspect that people listening to
this conversation might hearwhere some of that warmth came
from, right?
So a question that we're alsoasking a lot of people.
We're talking to Joy hope.
So we're in a nutty time in theworld.
We're coming out of these fireslike bad things are happening.
There's tough stuff.
Where are you seeing hope inthe world, in your community, in
(34:47):
the world, like what's keepingyou grooving in these hard times
?
Joy Gruver (34:54):
The kids right, like my kids, give me lots of hope
for our future.
Your kid gives me hope.
I think the resilience of ourkids help provide that level of
hope and I see, even like for meworking for the company I do,
(35:14):
I'll plug them too because theydeserve it.
I'll plug them too because theydeserve it.
We're trying to do really crazydynamic things in my industry
and in my company.
So I am excited every day towake up and, trust me, I had to
wake up at 4.30 yesterdaymorning.
People don't do that unless youhave hope and you believe in
(35:36):
what you're doing, in themission, that it's doing
something.
So it also gives me hope thatcompanies like mine are finding
solutions and investing insolutions to help clean up our
world.
So yeah, I guess I find hope ina lot of things.
I'm definitely a glass halffull kind of gal, I mean a name
(35:58):
like.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Joy.
If you weren't named Joy, thatwould be less of a pressure,
exactly, no pressure.
Joy Gruver (36:04):
It's seriously right .
It's a tough name to live up to, I'm sure, but I try to serve
it well, so yeah.
Allan Marks (36:12):
And I'd say, an addition of hope for me after a
lot of these conversations isseeing that folks like you are
taking an interest in the youngkids to be able to help them
kind of see pathways, see hopethemselves in that you're
showing up and part of aLinkedIn audience.
That is right, it's reallygreat and I'm really grateful
(36:35):
that you came to join us today.
Thanks for everything you'vedone for my family and for
people around us and also justbeing our friend.
So we're going to.
We've written about some morestuff with you and I hope
everyone listening to thispodcast has a chance to
understand why we, alan and I,were really excited for you to
join us.
So thank you so much for beinghere today, joy, yes, thank you,
Joy.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
thank you so much.
Joy Gruver (36:56):
Thank you.
You give me hope too.
Look at what you're trying,what you're accomplishing here.
Like this gives people hopethat they can get through these
situations, like you and yourfamily are getting through Well,
and they can get throughsituations, absolutely, I know.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
You know, sean, I was talking to you about one of my
favorite books, you know, byViktor Frankl Man's Search for
Meaning, man's Search forMeaning.
And this attitude we bring tothe worst situations influences
the response much more than thesituation itself.
Allan Marks (37:28):
And in that book which I think is a great way to
take us out of this podcast, andI think you exemplify this Joy
Frankl talks about how thecharacter of a person is
revealed and how they choose torespond to suffering Not that
that because we all suffer, andalso he talks about how there's
(37:48):
there's no relative suffering,my suffering isn't worse than
your suffering, or but it's howwe respond in those times.
And I'd say for us, how yourespond in those times is
directly influenced by thecommunity that you're blessed to
have around you yes, so thatindividual response creates that
community amen.
Thank you, joyce, so much fortaking the time together and
thank you for joining us in thisepisode of Shared Ground.
(38:09):
We hope you continue listening,and I'm Sean and really glad to
have this day with y'all.
I'm Alan, thanks much.
This has been another episodeof Shared Ground, a podcast
about resilience and communityFollow us on your favorite
platform or learn more atsharedgroundcom.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
That's shared-groundcom.
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