October 27, 2025 • 52 mins
In this episode
Jackson Cole, a standout goaltender at St. Michael's College, shares his compelling narrative of resilience and achievement in the realm of collegiate hockey. Having recently secured the NCAA Division 2 National Championship, Jackson reflects on the formative experiences that shaped his approach to the game.
Bio
Jackson Cole
Jackson Cole currently plays goalie for Saint Michael's College in Burlington, Vermont. Last season, he won the NCAA Division II National Championship with the Purple Knights.
Prior to attending Saint Michael's, Jackson was a four-year starter and captain for the Hun School of Princeton in New Jersey. There, he finished first team all prep and the prep's saves leader. Cole also played two years of varsity lacrosse at the Hun School.
His hockey resume includes attending the USA district program and being a national camp reserve player, two years of Junior hockey experience in the United States Premier Hockey League (USPHL) and the Canadian-American Junior Hockey League (CAJHL).
Not only does Jackson excel on the ice, but off as well. In high school, he was a member of the National Honor Society and was Student Council Vice President. He is a Dean's List student at Saint Michael's and was inducted into the National College Athlete Honor Society as a business administration and accounting minor.
https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/543833/jackson-cole
https://smcathletics.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/roster/jackson-cole/10960
Takeaways:
- The importance of maturity in a hockey player's development cannot be understated, as it encompasses both physical and mental growth.
- Cultivating a supportive environment for young athletes is essential for their emotional well-being and overall development.
- Positioning has become increasingly critical for goaltenders, as modern play emphasizes fewer athletic saves and more strategic placement.
- A strong team culture, fostered by mutual support and camaraderie, significantly contributes to a successful hockey season.
- Young athletes should focus on enjoying their sport to maintain passion and prevent burnout, rather than solely concentrating on performance metrics.
- Engaging in meaningful conversations with young players about their feelings helps mitigate pressure and fosters healthy emotional growth.
This episode is proudly sponsored by
High Stick Hockey
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Whether you're repping it on the ice or off, High Stick Hockey has the gear that delivers
style, comfort, and durability. From the locker room to the streets, this is hockey lifestyle done right.
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just use the special code CV3SAVE20 at checkout!
Trust us, you won’t be disappointed with the quality. It’s gear that’s as tough and true as the
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
This is Sharpening youg Edgewith Chuck and Eric.
Today's guest is Jackson Cole.
Jackson currently plays goalieat St. Michael's College in Burlington,
Vermont.
Last season, he won the NCAADivision 2 National Championships
(00:26):
with the Purple Knight.
Welcome to episode three ofSharpening youg Edge, presented by
CB3 Hockey Development.
I'm Chuck Vertolino along withmy co host, Eric Melanson.
And today we have Division 2goaltender from St. Michael's College,
(00:46):
Jackson Cole Jackson.
Thanks for joining us onSharpening youg Edge.
Thanks for having me, guys.
Hey, Jackson.
Welcome to the show.
Really appreciate it.
And congratulations on thenational championship you most recently
won.
That's amazing.
Yeah, it's awesome.
Yeah, that was an awesome time.
Yeah, I bet.
I bet.
I hope you guys are stillrelishing it.
(01:07):
So.
So you've been a goalie yourwhole life, right?
I know that both of my kidswanted to try goalie at Meitz, and
I told them the same thingthat my dad told me was, no.
That's a lot of money.
Common answer.
Yeah.
Yep.
What drew you to that position?
And kind of what made you fallin love with it?
(01:28):
You know, ironically, whatdrew me to the position was the gear.
At first, I remember at theUniversity of Delaware, skating really
young and seeing how they hadrental goaltending equipment kind
of just sitting in a box, andI just thought it was so cool.
Like, it looked so cool in theplayer, and I thought that I wanted
(01:50):
to try it.
And then the other realizationthat I had at a young age was that
there's only one on the iceper team.
And selfishly, I was like, Iwant to be at the center of attention.
I want to put on that cool gear.
So that was the first thingabout it.
And then what kept me in theposition was making big saves and
sort of getting the hoots andhollers for my teammates and the
(02:11):
parents.
And I thought it was reallyexciting that you could make some
plays out there that reallystood out.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I can definitely seethat as appealing, especially the
gear, but it's pretty cool,especially now.
Pretty slick designs out there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's a good way tolook at it.
(02:32):
And definitely an easy sell onthe parents.
Probably once you start makingthose big saves, it kind of makes
it all worth it.
Yeah.
It's tough to keep asking formoney for pads if the pucks keep
going past you.
Yeah, I bet.
So, like Eric, I told both myboys no when they asked to play goalie,
but I have a daughter as well.
And when she asked, I said,we'll give it a try.
(02:54):
And here we are years later,and she's.
She's fallen in love with it.
So thinking back to your youthhockey days, what were some key lessons
or habits that really shapedyour development early on after you
finally fell in love with the position?
So I would.
Just to back up, I wouldconsider myself sort of a late bloomer.
(03:17):
I wasn't the tallest kidgrowing up, even throughout early
high school.
So the key thing that Ifocused on at a young age was speed.
My parents and coaches wouldalways say is that you're a better
skater, you were faster.
And just in general athleticism.
I thought that that was what Isort of focused on and keyed in on
(03:39):
most at a young age.
And I wasn't even reallyworried about the more technical
side of the game, like pushingrebounds into the corners or freezing
pucks.
I mean, I was all over theplace, just trying to be as fast
as possible, making athleticsaves, and.
And I seemed to do pretty wellat a young age.
I got away with it then.
But of course, it changes asyou grow up and start playing at
(04:01):
higher levels.
They often say, too, that thegoalie's got to be the best skater
on the ice, so it is important.
Yeah, that was.
That was absolutely my.
My habit would always be to.
When I wasn't in the net for.
For drills in practice or whathave you at camps, my first goalie,
coach, P.J.
diana, would teach me to dothese things called side drills.
(04:22):
Where would just be small waysto work on your skating and your
athleticism or your speed,what have you.
And that's.
That's what really kind ofdrove my development at a young age,
was just being on my feet andskating and just being as fast as
possible.
That's awesome.
I think so.
I want to go on record and sayChuck's being extremely modest when
(04:43):
he talks about his daughter,because I have the great fortune
of coaching her for the lastcouple years.
And I will go on record andsay she's hands down one of the best
2015 goalies in North America.
Absolutely.
I've been saying that too, bar none.
And just her mindset, the wayshe approaches the game, incredible.
I just wanted to get that out there.
(05:03):
But you've.
You've had the fortune ofgrowing up in an era of hockey that's
had some pretty electric goaltenders.
Right?
Right.
Is there one, you know,collegiately, professionally, or
even, you know, a kid that youlooked up to as you progressed through
the ranks that maybe was aLittle bit older than you.
That kind of inspired you to.
To start really wanting toapproach goaltending at an elite
(05:23):
level.
Yeah.
So, great question.
Interesting thing about me isI feel like when you ask this question
to hockey players my age,there was always kind of someone,
maybe an older brother orsomeone that was the senior when
they were a freshman in highschool that they really looked up
to.
I was so competitive that Ididn't idolize anyone that was outside
(05:44):
of the NHL.
I wanted to be better thanabsolutely everyone.
And a lesson that stuck withme is, you can't beat what you copy.
So I kind of took that toheart at a young age.
And so the people I reallylooked up to would be Bobrovsky.
When he was first in theFlyers, I thought that his game was
(06:05):
similar to mine.
I mean, of course, I'm 10, 12years old.
I'm not playing like SergeyBobrovsky, but he was a fast, athletic
goalie.
And similarly, Jonathan Quick,when he was on his reign with the
Kings, that shoot out againstRussia and Sochi, I mean, that's
stuff of legends.
And those guys really inspired me.
And seeing them play at such ahigh level and on that stage and
(06:29):
being on tv, going to Flyersgames, seeing people go crazy for
them, that's what was reallyinspiring to me.
And.
And I would just envisionmyself out there and think, you know,
what.
What if.
What if I could do that?
What if I could be that goalieand really kind of command a game
for a team at such a high level?
(06:49):
So, yeah, that was.
That was really inspiringstuff for me especially even when
Bobrovsky went to the BlueJackets, half my family a season
tickets to the Blue Jackets.
So whenever I was up there forThanksgiving, Christmas, we would
always go to the games, and hewould be starting, and it would just
be the coolest experience,just seeing him play in person.
Those are two amazing examples.
Right.
And they're both hall of Fame careers.
(07:12):
I think it's remarkable.
I think you spoke to their athleticism.
It's still on display, youknow, for Bobrovsky.
Espresso.
Yeah.
Given the cups he's won.
Right.
So you mentioned that, youknow, those were the ones you looked
up to.
Everybody else was kind of ina competitor.
Were there any moments, likelessons or other outside the game,
(07:32):
role models or just words of advice?
I mean, you spoke to someearlier that really kind of dialed
you in, and you were like, allright, now it's time to get serious.
And that led you to whereyou're at now.
Yeah.
So I remember One moment in specific.
When I was playing in prepschool, we would have a student take
(07:53):
the shots and the stats down.
And of course, as a goalie,right, you.
You want to make the mostsaves with the least amount of goals
and have the highest save percentage.
So I remember one game, Ican't remember who was against.
I literally took the scoresheet from the student that was taking
down the stats, and I realizedthat she flipped the shots, which
(08:14):
decreased my save percentage substantially.
And I cross it out, and then Iwrote in the real shots.
I didn't try to add shots or anything.
I just tried to give myselfcredit for the real thing.
And My coach, Ian McNally, sawme doing this, and he was livid.
He was, what are you doing?
And it wasn't because of thescore sheet or anything.
(08:36):
It was just because of what Iwas trying to do.
And my response when he askedme what I was trying to do, my response
was, I'm trying to play D1.
I'm trying to play pro.
Like, I.
This.
I need the stuff.
This is why it's important.
I need a good save percentage.
And he said, that's exactlywhy I'm worried.
And why that stuck with me isbecause I realized that he was saying,
(08:56):
it's not about the stats.
It's about not freaking outabout the stats.
It's about enjoying the game.
And there was a million otherways that I could have dealt with
that situation better.
But that moment for me, whenhe said, basically, what are you
doing?
It's not a big deal, where Iwas like, I really need to mature.
(09:16):
This is a long haul.
This is going to be a long journey.
This game means nothing.
My stats, my freshman year ofhigh school mean nothing.
I need to dial it in mentallyand start to mature now if I want
to play Division 1, if I wantto play pro.
And that moment really hit me,and it was a humbling moment because
(09:37):
it sort of took a level ofselfishness out of me.
And I started to think, okay,we won the game, and I did.
Well, it's just numbers, and Ican't overemphasize these little
percentages if I'm going toplay this game for a long time.
So, yeah, that really kind offlipped the script for me mentally.
(09:57):
That's awesome.
I mean, talk about focusing onthe priorities, right, and helping
us set you up for success.
I think that unfortunately,that's probably something that's
lost in the youth hockey world today.
Whether it's be kids focusedon the wrong thing, or probably to
a greater extent, Some of theparents of those kids focused on
the wrong thing.
Right, right.
(10:18):
That's why you're seeing someburnout in a lot of these kids.
Absolutely.
From what I'm thinking, yeah,that's a fantastic way to approach
it and I hope that some of ourlisteners take that on board and
really try to implement thateither in their kids game or their
own game.
Right.
So Jackson, you spoke aboutgoing to the Hudden School at Princeton.
(10:39):
You were a four year starterthere, captain, which you rarely
see for a goaltender.
So.
So that's pretty cool.
First team, all prep and prepsaves leaders.
You spoke about a little bitof an experience with your coach
there.
But how did playing at thatprep level environment help shape
your development both on andoff the ice?
(11:01):
Well, it makes you realize,right, that.
So when you're coming fromDelaware where hockey is not exactly
huge, it's getting better andyou're put in an environment where
pretty much everyone's reallygood and as good as you, if not better,
and you're playing againstteams with kids committed Division
(11:23):
1 schools at 15 years old,kids that are older than you and
bigger than you.
And what prep school changedabout me is playing at that level
is I started to realize that Ifirst off, I need to start thinking
team instead of me.
And also I need to kick itinto a different gear.
(11:43):
It was kind of like coldwater, like ice to the face, like
wow.
Like hockey.
The hockey world is huge.
These kids are big, these kidsare good.
And if you're going tosucceed, you need to differentiate
yourself in one way or another.
And that was sort of, youknow, a kick in the head where I
was like, wow.
I mean, I'm not even playingat a prep school that's nationally
(12:06):
ranked or anything.
And, and we only had a coupleDivision 1 commits.
But it was really a sort of ashock to the system and it made me
mature very quickly,especially living on my own.
And it made me take mynutrition, mental habits and my training
just to the next level.
And it's not even necessarilyby choice.
(12:26):
You're sort of forced into itif you want to survive at that level.
At least it's huge.
You mentioned the nutrition,the mental performance, the, the
physical prep and stuff.
How big of a factor do youthink that made in your game?
Do you think if you had, youknow, maybe incorporated it earlier,
it would have set you on adifferent path?
Do you think that, you know,there's, obviously you do, there's,
(12:49):
there's some significantbenefits to the, paying attention
to those things.
You Know, I obviously, I meanI took it seriously at that age,
but kind of ironically I mighthave taken it too seriously and that's
almost a regret of mine.
I took my training and mynutrition to a level that isn't really
healthy for a high school aged kid.
(13:12):
And it really started to eataway at me mentally when I'm in the
dining hall after a practiceand I'm in a bad mood because the
food doesn't seem healthy, orI'm in a bad mood because I have
to do homework instead ofstretching or going to the gym and
we're talking my schedulewould be go to practice after school.
(13:32):
I would go to school fromeight to three or whatever and then
I would go to practice rightafter school, then I would come back.
Sometimes I would even skipdinner or just make a protein shake,
go to the gym and then go toanother practice.
And I thought that was healthyand that's what the pros did, but
that's so far from the truth.
(13:53):
The pros have such like anemphasis on rest and recovery and
that wasn't a factor at all inmy, in my early years in prep school
there.
So I think it helps, itabsolutely helps.
Especially if you want toreach the next level.
I mean, you got to be mobile,you got to be eating right.
But I think that the hardestthing about that is striking the
balance between what's, what'sgood for you and, and what begins
(14:16):
to be adversary to you andwhat's working against you.
And I started to absolutelylean towards sort of working against
me kind of just not eating,not eating the right foods, sort
of empty foods like rice andjust grilled chicken, stuff like
that.
And I wasn't enjoying thingsthat I should have been as a high
school aged kid.
Now when you made thattransition from the prep school to
(14:41):
the college level, did thatshift, did you know, kind of, did
that challenge you or did youhave some better resources at your
disposal that we're able tokind of dial you in and say, hey,
maybe you're hitting that overtraining threshold.
Let's back you off and put youon a better way, on a better path?
Yeah, I, I think that my, mynutrition and training, well, my
(15:03):
training is, is obviously at anext level at college because that's
what it demands.
But the nutrition stuff, Ieased back on that.
I started to enjoy myself alittle bit more because I saw guys
on my team, guys my age, andthey, if I did the same stuff I did
in prep school as I did incollege, they'd be like, whoa, dude,
you really gotta freak.
(15:23):
You gotta, you know, chill outa little bit.
You're sort of freaking me out.
So I would say that my sort ofhealth regimen now is absolutely
more relaxed and refined, andthat's helped me so much mentally.
Not feeling bad almost to thepoint of tears.
In high school when I eat ice cream.
I mean, that's absurd.
(15:44):
And now it's, of course, ofcourse I can have ice cream.
It's not a big deal at all.
Like, of course I can have acheat meal.
And I think that's honestlywhat's taken my game to the next
level.
I mean, you see kids at such ayoung age getting exposed to professional
athletes and they think thatthey can't have sugar.
Or some people believe thatyou shouldn't eat carbs or anything
(16:05):
when you're a young athlete.
I mean, it gets so out of hand.
And people do that becausethey think it makes them a better
athlete.
But it really is kind of just.
It's just psyching you out andit's adding all this static into
your head when you reallyshould just be enjoying the game
and worried about your on iceperformance, not this other, you
know, marginal gains stuff.
It's really not good foranyone at a young age like that.
(16:29):
Believe me.
I could talk at length.
We could have a wholediscussion on the human performance
factors and stuff like that.
Yeah, yeah.
So Eric mentioned your shiftfrom prep school to college.
And we all dream it, we all dowhen we're kids, you know, playing
in the driveway and thinkingwe're scoring the winning goal to
win Game 7 of the Stanley CupFinal or making that big save.
(16:52):
Now, it may not be the StanleyCup Final, but we did mention that
last year he won the Division2 National Championship with St.
Michael's College.
Had to be a unique experiencefor, for you, an exciting experience.
So, so just walk us through that.
What was it like competing andultimately winning that national
championship?
(17:13):
Yeah, so I'll try not to givea stock hockey guy answer to this.
Like, oh, we, we all bought inand we got puck steep.
I mean, that, that experiencewas, was so unique.
And it all started with earlyon into the year.
First off, we had a greatgroup of guys.
Our leadership group was phenomenal.
(17:33):
The seniors and captains, itwas phenomenal.
And there was such a level ofmaturity and such a high level of
buy in just from the get go.
And we all knew what we werecapable of from the get go.
And it kind of took off from there.
And what really started thischampionship run was when we first
got to campus, we would have aday or two every week where we would
(17:54):
go on walks with each other.
And it could be on thebeachfront Lake Champlain, could
be in the woods, just bearound campus.
And we all started to get toknow each other on such an intimate
level.
And we would talk about ourinsecurities, what makes us anxious,
what we're scared of, and wewould try to mix it up, maybe getting
(18:16):
guys that you don't talk tothat often you don't have to get
any classes with.
And we made sure that everyoneknew each other like the back of
their hands.
And then that was the foundation.
And then the second brick ofthat was this term, our coach brought
it to us.
I think it's from Alabama basketball.
It's called mudita, and I'mnot sure which language that's from,
(18:38):
but essentially mudita meanscelebrating others achievements and
being genuinely happy for others.
And how that helped us was sayyou weren't starting and net a game,
being genuinely excited forthat goalie to do well, not wishing,
oh, like, I hope we win, but Ihope that he gives up a couple ones,
(19:00):
or even if you were a forwardor a D man, not being like, I hope
this guy screws up on this play.
Then I go out there and thennow I'm on Power Play 1.
We all started to really behappy for each other, and we knew
each other first off, but nowwe're genuinely happy for each other.
And that led to no tensionbetween anyone and really started
that cohesive group feeling.
(19:23):
And then we hit our scheduleand we were just rolling games.
There's not enough time toreally do those meetings or any,
or, you know, culturemeetings, what we call them.
There's no.
Not much time to do that anymore.
So now we're game, game, game,practice, practice, practice.
And we just started to getinto those early habits.
Just consistency, pretty basic stuff.
Nothing, nothing really out ofthe ordinary that we did.
(19:46):
We just made sure that everytime we hit that ice, we had a goal
and we were going to meet it.
And when someone messed up,there was someone right there ready
to pick up the slack.
And we really started to knowor to think that it was going to
happen going in the playoffs.
We caught so much steam goinginto that last month, month and a
(20:08):
half of the season.
And it was emotional becauseour seniors that were leaving were
guys that were fundamental tothis program.
And not just points leadersand guys that play the most games,
have the most minutes.
I mean, guys that wouldreally, really do anything that they
could for you.
(20:28):
And that went for everyone,not just their leadership group and
the seniors.
It went for the freshmen andour equipment managers, our coaches,
our trainers.
They really were just suchsweet, caring people.
And we just had such a warmenergy about our team and we all
loved it so much.
We had students working thecameras that were in our locker room
(20:51):
as if they were part of our team.
And it was, it was one big family.
And we all sort of looked ateach other and we're like, you know
what?
Like, there's no reason why wecan't do this.
And that just carried rightover onto the ice and.
And we got it done and thatwe, we were playing St Anselm and
we had lost to them in thenational championship my freshman
(21:12):
year.
And we were going into theirbarn, that championship game, and
we knew that it was going tobe different this time.
We were a different team andwe pounced on them.
I mean, we left no room for error.
There was not going to be anygray area or second guessing if we
were going to win that game.
There was such a high level ofaggression and everyone was in it
(21:35):
with each other.
And I have never seen such acohesive group of people, not just
talking about the players, I'mtalking about everyone that's on
the bench.
Our administrators at school,our fans, our trainers, parents.
And it was, it was such aunique experience in that aspect
(21:56):
where it really did feel likea family win and not just we were
the better team.
It seemed like we genuinelyhad the culture that deserved to
win that title.
And we got it done.
And now let's take a quickbreak to hear from our partners.
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(22:19):
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It's nice to hear you say thatbecause I don't know if it's the
exact quote, but Kurt Russellsaid in the movie Miracle when people
(24:17):
were questioning his picks, hesaid, I don't want the best guys,
I want the right guys.
And it's good to hear you saythat because a lot of youth coaches,
or maybe even at the higherlevels, these coaches look for the
best guys.
But it's a complete team effort.
You need your role players andyou need everyone to buy into the
(24:41):
team mentality.
And it's good to hear you say that.
And we're seeing a lot ofsuccessful teams, even like the Panthers.
Do they have all the best guysin the world?
No, but they have the rightguys that fit their roles and, and
they click well and they buyinto that team mentality and they've
won two Stanley Cups in a row.
So.
Yeah, and that's, that's agreat way to compare it to our team
(25:03):
too.
You wouldn't say we had thebest points leaders in the league
or nationally and we don'thave the most guys that had the best
junior careers or, or whathave you.
But it was the right group of guys.
And I give so much credit tomy former coach Damian De Julian
for somehow finding all thesepieces that just seemed like they
(25:23):
magically fit together.
And we all loved each other somuch and it really did carry over
onto the ice.
That's awesome.
I think you've used the wordculture, you know, a whole bunch
and that's, you know, I'm hugeon culture.
I think it, it is a greatattributing factor to successful
teams.
I think if you have a poor orbroken culture, it's, it's not going
(25:43):
to allow you guys to reachyour full potential.
Right.
Do you think that the coachwas really initially a big driving
factor in that?
Not.
And not so much that hescripted what the culture would be.
Right.
Did he just allow for anenvironment for that?
To Foster.
And he kind of led by examplefrom the top down.
Yeah, I would agree.
I think it's the latter ofwhat you just mentioned.
(26:05):
He wasn't an overbearing coachor do this, do that guy at all.
But he really sort of.
He would call it, give us thekeys to Lamborghini, and really opened
up that room and said, this isyour team.
This is not.
This is not my team only.
This is your team, and this isfor you guys to figure it out.
And I think that was.
(26:26):
That was perfect for that team.
And we had the right.
Right group of guys and we hadbeen building on this culture that
was so, so incredible from theprior two years.
And I don't want to say itpeaked, but I mean, it seemed like
that was the top and we'reonly going forward from there, hopefully.
But I think that Coach DeJulian was pivotal in allowing us
(26:51):
to have the keys toLamborghini and drive our own car.
We've talked a lot up to thispoint about the successes that you've
had on the ice and thesuccesses that you're still having
on the ice.
Right.
That culminated in thatnational championship last year.
Hopefully back to back thisyear for you.
But I'd be remiss if we didn'ttalk about the success you've had
as an academic as well.
(27:12):
Right.
So honor society in highschool, National Collegiate Athletic
Honor Society, now, Dean's list.
You know, looking back on yourcareer, maybe it started before the
Hun school or even when youwere playing the game or Mary, your
parents were instrumental in it.
Was it that drive in athleticsthat kind of shaped your focus in
the classroom?
(27:32):
Was it how much you liked school?
Or maybe you didn't likeschool, you were just good at it.
Right.
Was it.
Was it that that shaped your athletics?
Was it a healthy mix of both?
Yeah, I think.
I think it really stems fromjust who I am as a person.
I'm a competitor, just in general.
And same thing with hockey.
(27:53):
I want to have the best grade,So I want 100.
I want 100.
I want 100.
I want a higher score than myroommate on this.
On this exam.
It's a lot of similar attributes.
And also just plainly I knewthat school was important and that
had been harped on me from ayoung age, especially my parents.
(28:16):
And I think the second driverof that academic success was just
surrounding myself withintelligent people.
You wouldn't want to be theodd man out and be like, oh, I don't
really understand this.
I had the great fortune ofgoing to The Hutton School.
And of course, I wassurrounded by many intelligent people.
You got, you were sending ahandful of kids to Ivy League schools
(28:38):
every year.
Other great schools, BostonCollege, Northwestern.
And I think when you're in theright environment, it's sort of,
sort of enriches your justcuriosity in general, and you want
to know more than you don't.
And the knowing part feels good.
(28:59):
The knowing what's on the examor understanding your homework, that's
the same feeling for me atleast, as getting on the ice and
knowing exactly what you'redoing and feeling like you're a part
of it.
So I think one, it was being acompetitor, and I think two, it was
wanting to be sort of in themixture and not wanting to be the
(29:23):
one falling behind and not struggling.
Yeah, I mean, you'vementioned, you know, again, you use
that word compete, competitor,and that's, you know, that's the
word they call it.
Right.
They don't call it winning,they don't call it lose it.
They call it competing.
Right.
So having those highexpectations for yourself all the
time, how did you deal with failure?
(29:44):
Right.
How did you deal with whenthings did not go your way, whether
that be on the ice or in the classroom?
Right.
Like, was there a point whereyou completely used to shut down
and then there was somethingthat you learned?
Maybe it was that, that quoteabout the stuff, stats.
Right, Right.
To deal with that mental pressure.
Right.
Because it's, you know, likeyou said, you're at the Hunt School,
so challenging academicenvironment, challenging hockey environment
(30:07):
right now.
So you're getting it from both sides.
How did you, how did you dealwith that?
Not well, to be completelytransparent, not well at all.
And I, I wish I had someamazing story of growth where I was
like, it's okay.
I'm going to fight throughthis adversity.
I would take it badly after aloss, after a bad exam grade, and
(30:31):
it would just be.
It would just start withanger, just be like, oh, how did
I not know that?
Or how did I not see that?
I started to mature just ingeneral through life and started
to understand that failuresare good for you.
And that was a hard conceptfor me to grasp initially.
And it wasn't really untiljunior hockey after prep school,
(30:52):
where failure was often.
Failure was very often.
And that's sort of where Icame to terms with it.
And I started to use failureas a tool and sort of as a healing
and coping mechanism because Iknew that if it's going to keep happening,
it's a.
It's a part of life.
And I looked at it sort ofobjectively and thought, what am
(31:12):
I going to do about this?
Am I going to sit here and pout?
Am I going to self destructlike I did in prep school and not
talk to anyone for a day?
Or am I going to learn from this?
And that's sort of a stockanswer just on facing adversity in
general.
But I also think that there'sso much virtue in using failure to
your advantage because that'swhat the greatest have done in the
(31:34):
greatest intellects, thegreatest athletes.
Because that's like failure isyour friend.
I would say, yeah, that's a, that's.
A very hard concept forespecially youth players to, to get.
I try to instill in my playersthat, you know, it's okay to fall
down, right?
It's, it's how you learn, right?
Just get back up.
(31:55):
What separates the NHLers andthe high level hockey players from
the other guys?
It's, it's the guys that werewilling to get up and learn from
their mistakes.
And, and I like that, that youexpress that, that failure is a learning
tool.
What other advice would yougive to younger players?
Because you're in it now whenthey're trying to balance the hockey,
(32:18):
the school and, and lifeoverall, especially when it comes
to, when they get to, when,when it starts getting real in middle
and high school.
I would say first off, stopcomparing yourself to others.
Everyone's on a different path.
And, and some people, youknow, reach certain levels at a younger
age than others.
(32:38):
And that doesn't necessarilymean they'll have a better career
or get a better job someday.
You have to stay true to yourown path.
And also I would say that ifyou don't have passion for what you're
doing, that's when you'rereally in trouble.
It's not about failure oranything if you love what you do.
Of course we all love hockey.
You don't love losing games,but you have to love hockey even
(33:01):
as you're losing games.
And I think that passion andthat love for it will take you so
far as compared to someone whodoesn't love hockey.
Maybe they're just really goodat it because that can fizzle out
very fast.
And I've seen that countlesstimes just growing up.
One of the biggest investmentsthat I've made for my kids thus far,
(33:23):
and they're only 11 and 9 forme at least, isn't, hasn't.
Hasn't been the, the extraskating, the, the, you know, this
clinic, that camp, thisWorkout program or this, whatever.
It's been in a mentalperformance coach.
Right.
And it's one that specificallyis, you know, her goal was to focus
(33:44):
on youth athletes because itgets them talking, it gets them understanding
their feelings, knowing thatit's okay to feel certain ways and
then how to deal with that pressure.
Right.
Because that's going to helpthem in life as they get older.
So that being said, and youknow, you, you mentioned that you
also spent a lot of time outof the networking on your skating.
(34:04):
Right?
So in today's like Instagram,social media society where everybody's
got a platform now, so you'regetting hit with all these things
from every different anglefrom human performance to on ice
skills to off ice skills.
You know, what are things fromyour point of view that, you know,
kids should be focusing on now?
You know, what should they be prioritizing?
(34:25):
Is it some of the on ice stuffor maybe it's a mix of both?
Right, so just what do you think?
I think that the on ice stuffis absolutely the most important
because that's what it is.
Your craft is on the ice.
The off ice stuff is obviously important.
I don't think it's asimportant as being on the ice.
(34:46):
I think that if you went to anhour long stick and talk and you
sat there and you had fun withyour friends and you got scored on
or you just, you're justpassing around, maybe you want to
work on something specific.
I think that's so much morebeneficial than going to a gym and
running on a treadmill just tothe point of driving yourself insane
(35:07):
or going on Instagram andbeing like, oh, okay, here's how
I get a six pack in 10 minutes.
I think that is what stemsinto the unhealthy habits.
And again, going back to thatpassion thing, if you keep feeding
that passion and feeding thatfire and having fun on the ice and
playing shinny with yourfriends, playing stick hockey, I
(35:28):
think that's genuinely whatmakes you one of the better hockey
players, is just stayingwithin the game, but understanding
that that game is not always,I'm in the game right now and I need
to perform.
It's also fun.
And I think that one of the,maybe not the worst, but not, maybe
not the worst way, but a badway to approach it would be being
(35:49):
100% off the ice on your gymand maybe watching YouTube, trying
to understand how to docertain things on the ice and then
going onto the I and trying tobe perfect.
I think that's what driveskids to an unhealthy mental point.
I think that there needs to bea balance between taking hockey seriously
(36:09):
and just going out there andjust falling all over the place.
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The fun word, right?
That's the most important thatI think gets lost now or it becomes,
you know where it startsbecoming a career and probably not
a fun one and stops becomingplaying for the love of the Game.
Right.
(38:40):
I mean, maybe some people thatlisten will think I'm lying, but
the first thing I ask my kidswhen they are done with the game
or practice is did you have fun?
Because that's going to set upmy next question because if it's
no, I didn't have fun, thenthe conversation is going to be completely
different.
So yeah, I think the fun thingis huge.
(39:01):
That's a great answer.
Thank you.
So Eric, you mentioned mydaughter earlier.
Jackson, you know her well,for those obviously that don't know
her, she's 10 years old, she'sa girl, she plays high level hockey
with the boys.
So I would imagine.
And they don't Express it at10 years old, but I would imagine
(39:22):
it's extremely stressful whenshe's in there.
And I gotta give a shout outto Eric for always being her crotch
in between periods.
Whether she has a great periodor she let up a softie.
He's always on the benchgiving her advice, talking to her,
keeping her head in the game.
Jackson knows her well too, byworking with her at some of my clinics
and camps.
So what advice, Jackson, wouldyou have to some parents and even
(39:45):
coaches?
We see it all the time during practices.
How could parents and coachesbest support their young goalies
with their confidence and development?
I would say first andforemost, just be their outlet.
Be a safe, safe space for themto express how they're feeling and
what they're worried about.
And that doesn't mean cryingor being invasive if they don't want
(40:09):
to talk about it or anything.
But having that outlet, likehaving my, my mom and my dad on car
rides home from, from hardgames and that doesn't mean necessarily
lying to them to be like, oh,like you're the best player, like
screw your coach, like that'swhy we're not playing.
But just, but listening is soimportant for parents and really
trying to understand whythey're feeling so certain ways.
(40:33):
And I, I believe that if, ifyou are their outlet and their sort
of comfort system to reallytalk through the highs and the lows,
I, I think that that makesthem take sort of the pressure off
of themselves.
And if you're a parent thatgets, you know, all mad that your
kid didn't have a great gameor maybe was up all night playing
(40:54):
video games and didn't playwell and you know, you feel like
you wasted your money at atournament or something like that,
and then maybe you go quiet inthe car because you're so frustrated,
I can understand that too, butI think that that leads to children
and younger kids just being.
Just reach, then internalizingtheir feelings.
And then most of the time foryoung kids, they can't work through
(41:17):
that in a mature way, andthose just turn into negative feelings.
And then it starts to festerinside and build up and it doesn't
really end up well until theycan sort of get it all out.
And maybe when they get it allout, maybe that's a big crash out
on the ice.
So I think taking thosemitigating steps and checking in
on them and just being alistener in general is, Is the greatest
(41:37):
advice I could give along.
That same, like, advice line.
The best piece, you know,that, that advice that I've heard
is, is exactly the same.
It's, you know, for parents tosay, you know, hey, first and foremost,
like, hey, Jeff, fun.
But then usually my nextquestion is, you want to talk about
your game?
And if it's yes or no, right.
Then it will go from there.
(41:58):
But if it's no, then it's all right.
Hey, just let me know when youwant to talk because maybe they need
a minute to work through it orto try to work through it and just
to let them know that, hey,you're here.
Right.
And you've dropped a lot ofnugget bombs on us over the course
of this podcast so far.
But if you had one that islike your Ted Lasso, I believe, sticker
at the door, what is one pieceof advice for a 10 to 12 year old
(42:22):
or.
Or somewhere in that agerange, goalie chasing, you know,
to be the next Jackson or beyond.
Right, the next Bob orsomebody in the NHL.
What's that going to be?
You know, it's funny youmentioned Ted Lasso, because I was
actually going to say be a goldfish.
That.
That short memory is soimportant, and that was sort of our
(42:45):
mantra.
Our coach actually made uswatch Ted Lasso over the summer because
he thought that that was so important.
And I think if I could haveembodied be a goldfish and having
that short memory at a youngage, I would have been a better player
and a happier player because Iwas replaying goals that happened
to me two weeks before andbeing like, how do you think my coach
(43:07):
is holding that against me?
Do you think, you know, thatgirl in the stand saw that and doesn't
like me anymore.
You just got to.
You just got to forget andforgive yourself and just keep going.
Yeah, I mean, shout out to TedLasso, right?
Great show.
Huge fan.
They're bringing it back, right?
A lot of.
A lot of Good knowledge inthat show.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it should bemandatory viewing for all coaches,
(43:29):
regardless of sport, becauseI, you know, the way he approaches
it was pretty awesome.
Yeah.
Love that you brought up Ted Lasso.
So you talked about at thebeginning of the podcast.
We're going to go back to thebeginning, circle back.
You talked about thefundamentals of skating for a goaltender,
things you like to do early on.
So.
So what are some otherfundamentals that young goalies should,
(43:49):
should focus on at the youngerlevels and how does that progress
as they.
They move up to middle schooland high school and college?
Yeah, the game is changing andyou could get away with being the
best athlete even up to 2014,2015, but now people are moving much
less and it's a positionalsport now.
(44:12):
It used to be Martin Brodeurdoing backflips out there and making
ridiculous saves.
That is completely ridiculousin today's game.
So I think that goaltendersnow from a young age should be more
concerned about theirpositioning and moving the least
amount possible now becauseyou want to be set, you want to be
(44:34):
in the right position from theget go, and you don't want to have
to make those ridiculousathletic saves.
Sometimes they're appropriateand they're exciting to watch.
It's just the nature of the sport.
But I think positioning is themost important, growing aspect of
the game.
Obviously skating comes with that.
Skating is just a must have,but positioning is what's changing
(44:55):
the most to me, because yousee the best goalies and they don't
look like they're doinganything at all.
I remember watching CareyPrice and thinking, this guy is just
not even trying, which isn't true.
He's just so good at what hedoes and he's always in the right
spot.
I noticed that, at least onthe, on the player side.
You know, if you look at someof these collegiate and NHL players,
it seems like over the last2010, however long years, they're
(45:20):
adding inches to their height.
Right.
So like what the, you know,average height, maybe back in the
90s, used to be around 6 foot.
Now you're getting more intolike the 6, 3, 6, 4 with a lot of
goalies.
I'm saying they're gonna behuge as well.
Right.
So maybe that is.
Is to your point that like we're.
Or there's an emphasis onbigger, bigger players, so you want
to be able to move less andtake up more of a net.
(45:43):
Yeah.
Well, the other thing is thatthe pro goalies are sort of shrinking.
Yeah.
Maybe, maybe not as a generaltrend, but some of the better ones
are smaller but they're stilldoing the same thing.
And you're realizing that youdon't have to be the best athlete
to get away with it.
You can be smaller and smallerthan NHLs like 6 foot, 6 foot one.
So they're still big guys butthey are embodying the same aspects
(46:07):
of, of positional awarenessand just being always in the right
spot before anything even happens.
So it looks easy to them.
It's that hockey iq but for agoaltender, right.
So like figuring out where theplay is going to go.
I think that's exactly.
Don't talk about.
Right.
So we talked about a lotduring this podcast.
Is there anything that wedidn't ask you that you've been thinking
(46:29):
about that you wanted to maybeany pieces of advice for players,
parents, coaches that, that wedidn't get to address today?
Stay off social media and notall social media.
There is great social media.
The social media that I amreferring to is the toxic, what the
(46:49):
kids call brain rot and you'redoing what they call doom scrolling
and you're just, it's justconstant dopamine hits and you're
just going through it for hours.
That is literally shrinkingkids brains.
And the social media that youshould be watching and the people
that you should be followingare people like Chuck and the hockey
(47:10):
development and the NHL andyour favorite team and maybe you
friends and stuff, that's all good.
But I think when you get intothe side of social media where it's,
it's sort of toxic anddangerous and kids get exposed to
things that they shouldn't beand start to say things to their
(47:33):
parents and friends that theyshouldn't know.
I think that's dangerous.
Not even just from a hockey orgrowing up perspective, but in a
professional sense too.
You start to see that digitalfootprint sort of come back to bite
people.
So I think you should usesocial media as a tool, as an educational
(47:53):
tool and not as necessarilyentertainment per se all the time.
That's awesome.
I love it.
I want to make sure my kidshear that because they're begging
me for cell phones left and right.
Oh, that's.
That's awesome.
That's perfect.
Right?
And you know, I've got, got agreat friend who trains both my boys
in skills and we're going tobe fortunate enough to have him on
(48:16):
the podcast too here in acouple weeks.
Chase Fuchs, and he's acurrent scout for Red Deer in the
whl.
And I've Asked him, you know,jokingly, how many.
How many kids have you everrecruited on social media?
And he said, zero.
Right.
So it's.
He's like, none.
That's probably the last placeI'd go to look, you know, so, yeah,
I think it just echoes whatyou said.
(48:38):
I know that I'm gonna give youa follow on social media, Right.
Because you've definitelydropped a lot of knowledge here.
And.
And I love to try to justsurround myself with great people.
Thank you.
Like yourself.
So if there's folks out therelistening, is, you know, is there
a way they can get in touchwith you, follow you on social media,
follow your journey, hopefullyback to another national championship.
(48:58):
I am on Instagram andLinkedIn, but this isn't a business
call, so my Instagram is underscore.
Underscore Jackson Cole andfair warning.
I don't post very often, but Iwill be reposting our hockey results
and hopefully some good newswill come across your feed.
(49:19):
Awesome.
You know, I think that's great.
I certainly hope you guys repeat.
You know, I went to college upin Vermont as well, so I know how
the winters can get up there.
So hockey is definitely thething that.
I'm sure it'll get you through that.
Yeah, I guess.
One final question for you.
Hit you with the hard one.
This is a Development Focuspodcast, right?
(49:42):
What is.
What is Jackson Cole'sdefinition of development?
Right.
And that can be mental,physical, spiritual, whatever aspect
you want to take on it.
What's your definition of development?
I would say my definition ofdevelopment would be maturity.
I think maturity embodies allthe senses of what it means to develop.
(50:04):
When you're maturing mentally,you're growing, you're maturing physically.
And with that maturity comesnew responsibilities, a sense of
self awareness and humbleness.
And you start to realize that,you know, I'm the only person that
can dictate my success.
And that comes from, for me,that comes from a perspective of
(50:25):
maturity.
And I think that if you see ahockey player play and then you don't
see him play for five years,and then you're like, wow, he's really
mature now.
He's really taking care ofhimself and he's like, so nice to
talk to, and he looks great onthe ice, I think that is.
Is a successful development inmy eyes.
It's just not saying grow up,but just start to mature, understand
(50:50):
yourself, understand yourbody, and understand the process,
and it's going to be a long one.
That's great.
I mean, you can't do anythingreally well in those arenas until
you're, until you're mature.
Right.
Because you're not going totake anything seriously.
So.
Right.
Awesome.
Awesome answer.
You know, I think for any, forany coach listening out there, I
know you said this wasn't abusiness call, but any coach that's
(51:12):
it's going to need agoaltending coach in the future.
I think you get a.
You got one here in Jackson,that's for sure.
Thank you.
So we know you got to get offto practice in a couple of minutes,
so we're going to wrap it up.
So very informative show forplayers, coaches, parents, everybody.
So thanks a lot for joiningus, Jackson.
(51:33):
Thank you so much for havingme, Jackson.
This is great.
We look forward to seeing youguys march back to a national championship
this year.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it, guys.
All right, so share with afriend, coach, parent or player if
you think they may beinterested and benefit from this
podcast.
If you'd enjoyed this episode,please leave a review on Apple Podcasts
and Spotify.
Make sure you're following uson those platforms as well.
(51:55):
Keep up to date on our growinglist of guests and topics, as well
as our growing list ofCourtney partners.
So thanks for listening toepisode three of Sharpening youg
Edge, and we'll see you next time.
This is Sharpening youg Edgewith Chuck and Eric.
Today's guest is Jackson Cole.
Jackson currently plays goalieat St. Michael's College in Burlington,
Vermont.
Last season, he won the NCAADivision 2 National Championships
(00:26):
with the Purple Knight.
Welcome to episode three ofSharpening youg Edge, presented by
CB3 Hockey Development.
I'm Chuck Vertolino along withmy co host, Eric Melanson.
And today we have Division 2goaltender from St. Michael's College,
(00:46):
Jackson Cole Jackson.
Thanks for joining us onSharpening youg Edge.
Thanks for having me, guys.
Hey, Jackson.
Welcome to the show.
Really appreciate it.
And congratulations on thenational championship you most recently
won.
That's amazing.
Yeah, it's awesome.
Yeah, that was an awesome time.
Yeah, I bet.
I bet.
I hope you guys are stillrelishing it.
(01:07):
So.
So you've been a goalie yourwhole life, right?
I know that both of my kidswanted to try goalie at Meitz, and
I told them the same thingthat my dad told me was, no.
That's a lot of money.
Common answer.
Yeah.
Yep.
What drew you to that position?
And kind of what made you fallin love with it?
(01:28):
You know, ironically, whatdrew me to the position was the gear.
At first, I remember at theUniversity of Delaware, skating really
young and seeing how they hadrental goaltending equipment kind
of just sitting in a box, andI just thought it was so cool.
Like, it looked so cool in theplayer, and I thought that I wanted
(01:50):
to try it.
And then the other realizationthat I had at a young age was that
there's only one on the iceper team.
And selfishly, I was like, Iwant to be at the center of attention.
I want to put on that cool gear.
So that was the first thingabout it.
And then what kept me in theposition was making big saves and
sort of getting the hoots andhollers for my teammates and the
(02:11):
parents.
And I thought it was reallyexciting that you could make some
plays out there that reallystood out.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I can definitely seethat as appealing, especially the
gear, but it's pretty cool,especially now.
Pretty slick designs out there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's a good way tolook at it.
(02:32):
And definitely an easy sell onthe parents.
Probably once you start makingthose big saves, it kind of makes
it all worth it.
Yeah.
It's tough to keep asking formoney for pads if the pucks keep
going past you.
Yeah, I bet.
So, like Eric, I told both myboys no when they asked to play goalie,
but I have a daughter as well.
And when she asked, I said,we'll give it a try.
(02:54):
And here we are years later,and she's.
She's fallen in love with it.
So thinking back to your youthhockey days, what were some key lessons
or habits that really shapedyour development early on after you
finally fell in love with the position?
So I would.
Just to back up, I wouldconsider myself sort of a late bloomer.
(03:17):
I wasn't the tallest kidgrowing up, even throughout early
high school.
So the key thing that Ifocused on at a young age was speed.
My parents and coaches wouldalways say is that you're a better
skater, you were faster.
And just in general athleticism.
I thought that that was what Isort of focused on and keyed in on
(03:39):
most at a young age.
And I wasn't even reallyworried about the more technical
side of the game, like pushingrebounds into the corners or freezing
pucks.
I mean, I was all over theplace, just trying to be as fast
as possible, making athleticsaves, and.
And I seemed to do pretty wellat a young age.
I got away with it then.
But of course, it changes asyou grow up and start playing at
(04:01):
higher levels.
They often say, too, that thegoalie's got to be the best skater
on the ice, so it is important.
Yeah, that was.
That was absolutely my.
My habit would always be to.
When I wasn't in the net for.
For drills in practice or whathave you at camps, my first goalie,
coach, P.J.
diana, would teach me to dothese things called side drills.
(04:22):
Where would just be small waysto work on your skating and your
athleticism or your speed,what have you.
And that's.
That's what really kind ofdrove my development at a young age,
was just being on my feet andskating and just being as fast as
possible.
That's awesome.
I think so.
I want to go on record and sayChuck's being extremely modest when
(04:43):
he talks about his daughter,because I have the great fortune
of coaching her for the lastcouple years.
And I will go on record andsay she's hands down one of the best
2015 goalies in North America.
Absolutely.
I've been saying that too, bar none.
And just her mindset, the wayshe approaches the game, incredible.
I just wanted to get that out there.
(05:03):
But you've.
You've had the fortune ofgrowing up in an era of hockey that's
had some pretty electric goaltenders.
Right?
Right.
Is there one, you know,collegiately, professionally, or
even, you know, a kid that youlooked up to as you progressed through
the ranks that maybe was aLittle bit older than you.
That kind of inspired you to.
To start really wanting toapproach goaltending at an elite
(05:23):
level.
Yeah.
So, great question.
Interesting thing about me isI feel like when you ask this question
to hockey players my age,there was always kind of someone,
maybe an older brother orsomeone that was the senior when
they were a freshman in highschool that they really looked up
to.
I was so competitive that Ididn't idolize anyone that was outside
(05:44):
of the NHL.
I wanted to be better thanabsolutely everyone.
And a lesson that stuck withme is, you can't beat what you copy.
So I kind of took that toheart at a young age.
And so the people I reallylooked up to would be Bobrovsky.
When he was first in theFlyers, I thought that his game was
(06:05):
similar to mine.
I mean, of course, I'm 10, 12years old.
I'm not playing like SergeyBobrovsky, but he was a fast, athletic
goalie.
And similarly, Jonathan Quick,when he was on his reign with the
Kings, that shoot out againstRussia and Sochi, I mean, that's
stuff of legends.
And those guys really inspired me.
And seeing them play at such ahigh level and on that stage and
(06:29):
being on tv, going to Flyersgames, seeing people go crazy for
them, that's what was reallyinspiring to me.
And.
And I would just envisionmyself out there and think, you know,
what.
What if.
What if I could do that?
What if I could be that goalieand really kind of command a game
for a team at such a high level?
(06:49):
So, yeah, that was.
That was really inspiringstuff for me especially even when
Bobrovsky went to the BlueJackets, half my family a season
tickets to the Blue Jackets.
So whenever I was up there forThanksgiving, Christmas, we would
always go to the games, and hewould be starting, and it would just
be the coolest experience,just seeing him play in person.
Those are two amazing examples.
Right.
And they're both hall of Fame careers.
(07:12):
I think it's remarkable.
I think you spoke to their athleticism.
It's still on display, youknow, for Bobrovsky.
Espresso.
Yeah.
Given the cups he's won.
Right.
So you mentioned that, youknow, those were the ones you looked
up to.
Everybody else was kind of ina competitor.
Were there any moments, likelessons or other outside the game,
(07:32):
role models or just words of advice?
I mean, you spoke to someearlier that really kind of dialed
you in, and you were like, allright, now it's time to get serious.
And that led you to whereyou're at now.
Yeah.
So I remember One moment in specific.
When I was playing in prepschool, we would have a student take
(07:53):
the shots and the stats down.
And of course, as a goalie,right, you.
You want to make the mostsaves with the least amount of goals
and have the highest save percentage.
So I remember one game, Ican't remember who was against.
I literally took the scoresheet from the student that was taking
down the stats, and I realizedthat she flipped the shots, which
(08:14):
decreased my save percentage substantially.
And I cross it out, and then Iwrote in the real shots.
I didn't try to add shots or anything.
I just tried to give myselfcredit for the real thing.
And My coach, Ian McNally, sawme doing this, and he was livid.
He was, what are you doing?
And it wasn't because of thescore sheet or anything.
(08:36):
It was just because of what Iwas trying to do.
And my response when he askedme what I was trying to do, my response
was, I'm trying to play D1.
I'm trying to play pro.
Like, I.
This.
I need the stuff.
This is why it's important.
I need a good save percentage.
And he said, that's exactlywhy I'm worried.
And why that stuck with me isbecause I realized that he was saying,
(08:56):
it's not about the stats.
It's about not freaking outabout the stats.
It's about enjoying the game.
And there was a million otherways that I could have dealt with
that situation better.
But that moment for me, whenhe said, basically, what are you
doing?
It's not a big deal, where Iwas like, I really need to mature.
(09:16):
This is a long haul.
This is going to be a long journey.
This game means nothing.
My stats, my freshman year ofhigh school mean nothing.
I need to dial it in mentallyand start to mature now if I want
to play Division 1, if I wantto play pro.
And that moment really hit me,and it was a humbling moment because
(09:37):
it sort of took a level ofselfishness out of me.
And I started to think, okay,we won the game, and I did.
Well, it's just numbers, and Ican't overemphasize these little
percentages if I'm going toplay this game for a long time.
So, yeah, that really kind offlipped the script for me mentally.
(09:57):
That's awesome.
I mean, talk about focusing onthe priorities, right, and helping
us set you up for success.
I think that unfortunately,that's probably something that's
lost in the youth hockey world today.
Whether it's be kids focusedon the wrong thing, or probably to
a greater extent, Some of theparents of those kids focused on
the wrong thing.
Right, right.
(10:18):
That's why you're seeing someburnout in a lot of these kids.
Absolutely.
From what I'm thinking, yeah,that's a fantastic way to approach
it and I hope that some of ourlisteners take that on board and
really try to implement thateither in their kids game or their
own game.
Right.
So Jackson, you spoke aboutgoing to the Hudden School at Princeton.
(10:39):
You were a four year starterthere, captain, which you rarely
see for a goaltender.
So.
So that's pretty cool.
First team, all prep and prepsaves leaders.
You spoke about a little bitof an experience with your coach
there.
But how did playing at thatprep level environment help shape
your development both on andoff the ice?
(11:01):
Well, it makes you realize,right, that.
So when you're coming fromDelaware where hockey is not exactly
huge, it's getting better andyou're put in an environment where
pretty much everyone's reallygood and as good as you, if not better,
and you're playing againstteams with kids committed Division
(11:23):
1 schools at 15 years old,kids that are older than you and
bigger than you.
And what prep school changedabout me is playing at that level
is I started to realize that Ifirst off, I need to start thinking
team instead of me.
And also I need to kick itinto a different gear.
(11:43):
It was kind of like coldwater, like ice to the face, like
wow.
Like hockey.
The hockey world is huge.
These kids are big, these kidsare good.
And if you're going tosucceed, you need to differentiate
yourself in one way or another.
And that was sort of, youknow, a kick in the head where I
was like, wow.
I mean, I'm not even playingat a prep school that's nationally
(12:06):
ranked or anything.
And, and we only had a coupleDivision 1 commits.
But it was really a sort of ashock to the system and it made me
mature very quickly,especially living on my own.
And it made me take mynutrition, mental habits and my training
just to the next level.
And it's not even necessarilyby choice.
(12:26):
You're sort of forced into itif you want to survive at that level.
At least it's huge.
You mentioned the nutrition,the mental performance, the, the
physical prep and stuff.
How big of a factor do youthink that made in your game?
Do you think if you had, youknow, maybe incorporated it earlier,
it would have set you on adifferent path?
Do you think that, you know,there's, obviously you do, there's,
(12:49):
there's some significantbenefits to the, paying attention
to those things.
You Know, I obviously, I meanI took it seriously at that age,
but kind of ironically I mighthave taken it too seriously and that's
almost a regret of mine.
I took my training and mynutrition to a level that isn't really
healthy for a high school aged kid.
(13:12):
And it really started to eataway at me mentally when I'm in the
dining hall after a practiceand I'm in a bad mood because the
food doesn't seem healthy, orI'm in a bad mood because I have
to do homework instead ofstretching or going to the gym and
we're talking my schedulewould be go to practice after school.
(13:32):
I would go to school fromeight to three or whatever and then
I would go to practice rightafter school, then I would come back.
Sometimes I would even skipdinner or just make a protein shake,
go to the gym and then go toanother practice.
And I thought that was healthyand that's what the pros did, but
that's so far from the truth.
(13:53):
The pros have such like anemphasis on rest and recovery and
that wasn't a factor at all inmy, in my early years in prep school
there.
So I think it helps, itabsolutely helps.
Especially if you want toreach the next level.
I mean, you got to be mobile,you got to be eating right.
But I think that the hardestthing about that is striking the
balance between what's, what'sgood for you and, and what begins
(14:16):
to be adversary to you andwhat's working against you.
And I started to absolutelylean towards sort of working against
me kind of just not eating,not eating the right foods, sort
of empty foods like rice andjust grilled chicken, stuff like
that.
And I wasn't enjoying thingsthat I should have been as a high
school aged kid.
Now when you made thattransition from the prep school to
(14:41):
the college level, did thatshift, did you know, kind of, did
that challenge you or did youhave some better resources at your
disposal that we're able tokind of dial you in and say, hey,
maybe you're hitting that overtraining threshold.
Let's back you off and put youon a better way, on a better path?
Yeah, I, I think that my, mynutrition and training, well, my
(15:03):
training is, is obviously at anext level at college because that's
what it demands.
But the nutrition stuff, Ieased back on that.
I started to enjoy myself alittle bit more because I saw guys
on my team, guys my age, andthey, if I did the same stuff I did
in prep school as I did incollege, they'd be like, whoa, dude,
you really gotta freak.
(15:23):
You gotta, you know, chill outa little bit.
You're sort of freaking me out.
So I would say that my sort ofhealth regimen now is absolutely
more relaxed and refined, andthat's helped me so much mentally.
Not feeling bad almost to thepoint of tears.
In high school when I eat ice cream.
I mean, that's absurd.
(15:44):
And now it's, of course, ofcourse I can have ice cream.
It's not a big deal at all.
Like, of course I can have acheat meal.
And I think that's honestlywhat's taken my game to the next
level.
I mean, you see kids at such ayoung age getting exposed to professional
athletes and they think thatthey can't have sugar.
Or some people believe thatyou shouldn't eat carbs or anything
(16:05):
when you're a young athlete.
I mean, it gets so out of hand.
And people do that becausethey think it makes them a better
athlete.
But it really is kind of just.
It's just psyching you out andit's adding all this static into
your head when you reallyshould just be enjoying the game
and worried about your on iceperformance, not this other, you
know, marginal gains stuff.
It's really not good foranyone at a young age like that.
(16:29):
Believe me.
I could talk at length.
We could have a wholediscussion on the human performance
factors and stuff like that.
Yeah, yeah.
So Eric mentioned your shiftfrom prep school to college.
And we all dream it, we all dowhen we're kids, you know, playing
in the driveway and thinkingwe're scoring the winning goal to
win Game 7 of the Stanley CupFinal or making that big save.
(16:52):
Now, it may not be the StanleyCup Final, but we did mention that
last year he won the Division2 National Championship with St.
Michael's College.
Had to be a unique experiencefor, for you, an exciting experience.
So, so just walk us through that.
What was it like competing andultimately winning that national
championship?
(17:13):
Yeah, so I'll try not to givea stock hockey guy answer to this.
Like, oh, we, we all bought inand we got puck steep.
I mean, that, that experiencewas, was so unique.
And it all started with earlyon into the year.
First off, we had a greatgroup of guys.
Our leadership group was phenomenal.
(17:33):
The seniors and captains, itwas phenomenal.
And there was such a level ofmaturity and such a high level of
buy in just from the get go.
And we all knew what we werecapable of from the get go.
And it kind of took off from there.
And what really started thischampionship run was when we first
got to campus, we would have aday or two every week where we would
(17:54):
go on walks with each other.
And it could be on thebeachfront Lake Champlain, could
be in the woods, just bearound campus.
And we all started to get toknow each other on such an intimate
level.
And we would talk about ourinsecurities, what makes us anxious,
what we're scared of, and wewould try to mix it up, maybe getting
(18:16):
guys that you don't talk tothat often you don't have to get
any classes with.
And we made sure that everyoneknew each other like the back of
their hands.
And then that was the foundation.
And then the second brick ofthat was this term, our coach brought
it to us.
I think it's from Alabama basketball.
It's called mudita, and I'mnot sure which language that's from,
(18:38):
but essentially mudita meanscelebrating others achievements and
being genuinely happy for others.
And how that helped us was sayyou weren't starting and net a game,
being genuinely excited forthat goalie to do well, not wishing,
oh, like, I hope we win, but Ihope that he gives up a couple ones,
(19:00):
or even if you were a forwardor a D man, not being like, I hope
this guy screws up on this play.
Then I go out there and thennow I'm on Power Play 1.
We all started to really behappy for each other, and we knew
each other first off, but nowwe're genuinely happy for each other.
And that led to no tensionbetween anyone and really started
that cohesive group feeling.
(19:23):
And then we hit our scheduleand we were just rolling games.
There's not enough time toreally do those meetings or any,
or, you know, culturemeetings, what we call them.
There's no.
Not much time to do that anymore.
So now we're game, game, game,practice, practice, practice.
And we just started to getinto those early habits.
Just consistency, pretty basic stuff.
Nothing, nothing really out ofthe ordinary that we did.
(19:46):
We just made sure that everytime we hit that ice, we had a goal
and we were going to meet it.
And when someone messed up,there was someone right there ready
to pick up the slack.
And we really started to knowor to think that it was going to
happen going in the playoffs.
We caught so much steam goinginto that last month, month and a
(20:08):
half of the season.
And it was emotional becauseour seniors that were leaving were
guys that were fundamental tothis program.
And not just points leadersand guys that play the most games,
have the most minutes.
I mean, guys that wouldreally, really do anything that they
could for you.
(20:28):
And that went for everyone,not just their leadership group and
the seniors.
It went for the freshmen andour equipment managers, our coaches,
our trainers.
They really were just suchsweet, caring people.
And we just had such a warmenergy about our team and we all
loved it so much.
We had students working thecameras that were in our locker room
(20:51):
as if they were part of our team.
And it was, it was one big family.
And we all sort of looked ateach other and we're like, you know
what?
Like, there's no reason why wecan't do this.
And that just carried rightover onto the ice and.
And we got it done and thatwe, we were playing St Anselm and
we had lost to them in thenational championship my freshman
(21:12):
year.
And we were going into theirbarn, that championship game, and
we knew that it was going tobe different this time.
We were a different team andwe pounced on them.
I mean, we left no room for error.
There was not going to be anygray area or second guessing if we
were going to win that game.
There was such a high level ofaggression and everyone was in it
(21:35):
with each other.
And I have never seen such acohesive group of people, not just
talking about the players, I'mtalking about everyone that's on
the bench.
Our administrators at school,our fans, our trainers, parents.
And it was, it was such aunique experience in that aspect
(21:56):
where it really did feel likea family win and not just we were
the better team.
It seemed like we genuinelyhad the culture that deserved to
win that title.
And we got it done.
And now let's take a quickbreak to hear from our partners.
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It's nice to hear you say thatbecause I don't know if it's the
exact quote, but Kurt Russellsaid in the movie Miracle when people
(24:17):
were questioning his picks, hesaid, I don't want the best guys,
I want the right guys.
And it's good to hear you saythat because a lot of youth coaches,
or maybe even at the higherlevels, these coaches look for the
best guys.
But it's a complete team effort.
You need your role players andyou need everyone to buy into the
(24:41):
team mentality.
And it's good to hear you say that.
And we're seeing a lot ofsuccessful teams, even like the Panthers.
Do they have all the best guysin the world?
No, but they have the rightguys that fit their roles and, and
they click well and they buyinto that team mentality and they've
won two Stanley Cups in a row.
So.
Yeah, and that's, that's agreat way to compare it to our team
(25:03):
too.
You wouldn't say we had thebest points leaders in the league
or nationally and we don'thave the most guys that had the best
junior careers or, or whathave you.
But it was the right group of guys.
And I give so much credit tomy former coach Damian De Julian
for somehow finding all thesepieces that just seemed like they
(25:23):
magically fit together.
And we all loved each other somuch and it really did carry over
onto the ice.
That's awesome.
I think you've used the wordculture, you know, a whole bunch
and that's, you know, I'm hugeon culture.
I think it, it is a greatattributing factor to successful
teams.
I think if you have a poor orbroken culture, it's, it's not going
(25:43):
to allow you guys to reachyour full potential.
Right.
Do you think that the coachwas really initially a big driving
factor in that?
Not.
And not so much that hescripted what the culture would be.
Right.
Did he just allow for anenvironment for that?
To Foster.
And he kind of led by examplefrom the top down.
Yeah, I would agree.
I think it's the latter ofwhat you just mentioned.
(26:05):
He wasn't an overbearing coachor do this, do that guy at all.
But he really sort of.
He would call it, give us thekeys to Lamborghini, and really opened
up that room and said, this isyour team.
This is not.
This is not my team only.
This is your team, and this isfor you guys to figure it out.
And I think that was.
(26:26):
That was perfect for that team.
And we had the right.
Right group of guys and we hadbeen building on this culture that
was so, so incredible from theprior two years.
And I don't want to say itpeaked, but I mean, it seemed like
that was the top and we'reonly going forward from there, hopefully.
But I think that Coach DeJulian was pivotal in allowing us
(26:51):
to have the keys toLamborghini and drive our own car.
We've talked a lot up to thispoint about the successes that you've
had on the ice and thesuccesses that you're still having
on the ice.
Right.
That culminated in thatnational championship last year.
Hopefully back to back thisyear for you.
But I'd be remiss if we didn'ttalk about the success you've had
as an academic as well.
(27:12):
Right.
So honor society in highschool, National Collegiate Athletic
Honor Society, now, Dean's list.
You know, looking back on yourcareer, maybe it started before the
Hun school or even when youwere playing the game or Mary, your
parents were instrumental in it.
Was it that drive in athleticsthat kind of shaped your focus in
the classroom?
(27:32):
Was it how much you liked school?
Or maybe you didn't likeschool, you were just good at it.
Right.
Was it.
Was it that that shaped your athletics?
Was it a healthy mix of both?
Yeah, I think.
I think it really stems fromjust who I am as a person.
I'm a competitor, just in general.
And same thing with hockey.
(27:53):
I want to have the best grade,So I want 100.
I want 100.
I want 100.
I want a higher score than myroommate on this.
On this exam.
It's a lot of similar attributes.
And also just plainly I knewthat school was important and that
had been harped on me from ayoung age, especially my parents.
(28:16):
And I think the second driverof that academic success was just
surrounding myself withintelligent people.
You wouldn't want to be theodd man out and be like, oh, I don't
really understand this.
I had the great fortune ofgoing to The Hutton School.
And of course, I wassurrounded by many intelligent people.
You got, you were sending ahandful of kids to Ivy League schools
(28:38):
every year.
Other great schools, BostonCollege, Northwestern.
And I think when you're in theright environment, it's sort of,
sort of enriches your justcuriosity in general, and you want
to know more than you don't.
And the knowing part feels good.
(28:59):
The knowing what's on the examor understanding your homework, that's
the same feeling for me atleast, as getting on the ice and
knowing exactly what you'redoing and feeling like you're a part
of it.
So I think one, it was being acompetitor, and I think two, it was
wanting to be sort of in themixture and not wanting to be the
(29:23):
one falling behind and not struggling.
Yeah, I mean, you'vementioned, you know, again, you use
that word compete, competitor,and that's, you know, that's the
word they call it.
Right.
They don't call it winning,they don't call it lose it.
They call it competing.
Right.
So having those highexpectations for yourself all the
time, how did you deal with failure?
(29:44):
Right.
How did you deal with whenthings did not go your way, whether
that be on the ice or in the classroom?
Right.
Like, was there a point whereyou completely used to shut down
and then there was somethingthat you learned?
Maybe it was that, that quoteabout the stuff, stats.
Right, Right.
To deal with that mental pressure.
Right.
Because it's, you know, likeyou said, you're at the Hunt School,
so challenging academicenvironment, challenging hockey environment
(30:07):
right now.
So you're getting it from both sides.
How did you, how did you dealwith that?
Not well, to be completelytransparent, not well at all.
And I, I wish I had someamazing story of growth where I was
like, it's okay.
I'm going to fight throughthis adversity.
I would take it badly after aloss, after a bad exam grade, and
(30:31):
it would just be.
It would just start withanger, just be like, oh, how did
I not know that?
Or how did I not see that?
I started to mature just ingeneral through life and started
to understand that failuresare good for you.
And that was a hard conceptfor me to grasp initially.
And it wasn't really untiljunior hockey after prep school,
(30:52):
where failure was often.
Failure was very often.
And that's sort of where Icame to terms with it.
And I started to use failureas a tool and sort of as a healing
and coping mechanism because Iknew that if it's going to keep happening,
it's a.
It's a part of life.
And I looked at it sort ofobjectively and thought, what am
(31:12):
I going to do about this?
Am I going to sit here and pout?
Am I going to self destructlike I did in prep school and not
talk to anyone for a day?
Or am I going to learn from this?
And that's sort of a stockanswer just on facing adversity in
general.
But I also think that there'sso much virtue in using failure to
your advantage because that'swhat the greatest have done in the
(31:34):
greatest intellects, thegreatest athletes.
Because that's like failure isyour friend.
I would say, yeah, that's a, that's.
A very hard concept forespecially youth players to, to get.
I try to instill in my playersthat, you know, it's okay to fall
down, right?
It's, it's how you learn, right?
Just get back up.
(31:55):
What separates the NHLers andthe high level hockey players from
the other guys?
It's, it's the guys that werewilling to get up and learn from
their mistakes.
And, and I like that, that youexpress that, that failure is a learning
tool.
What other advice would yougive to younger players?
Because you're in it now whenthey're trying to balance the hockey,
(32:18):
the school and, and lifeoverall, especially when it comes
to, when they get to, when,when it starts getting real in middle
and high school.
I would say first off, stopcomparing yourself to others.
Everyone's on a different path.
And, and some people, youknow, reach certain levels at a younger
age than others.
(32:38):
And that doesn't necessarilymean they'll have a better career
or get a better job someday.
You have to stay true to yourown path.
And also I would say that ifyou don't have passion for what you're
doing, that's when you'rereally in trouble.
It's not about failure oranything if you love what you do.
Of course we all love hockey.
You don't love losing games,but you have to love hockey even
(33:01):
as you're losing games.
And I think that passion andthat love for it will take you so
far as compared to someone whodoesn't love hockey.
Maybe they're just really goodat it because that can fizzle out
very fast.
And I've seen that countlesstimes just growing up.
One of the biggest investmentsthat I've made for my kids thus far,
(33:23):
and they're only 11 and 9 forme at least, isn't, hasn't.
Hasn't been the, the extraskating, the, the, you know, this
clinic, that camp, thisWorkout program or this, whatever.
It's been in a mentalperformance coach.
Right.
And it's one that specificallyis, you know, her goal was to focus
(33:44):
on youth athletes because itgets them talking, it gets them understanding
their feelings, knowing thatit's okay to feel certain ways and
then how to deal with that pressure.
Right.
Because that's going to helpthem in life as they get older.
So that being said, and youknow, you, you mentioned that you
also spent a lot of time outof the networking on your skating.
(34:04):
Right?
So in today's like Instagram,social media society where everybody's
got a platform now, so you'regetting hit with all these things
from every different anglefrom human performance to on ice
skills to off ice skills.
You know, what are things fromyour point of view that, you know,
kids should be focusing on now?
You know, what should they be prioritizing?
(34:25):
Is it some of the on ice stuffor maybe it's a mix of both?
Right, so just what do you think?
I think that the on ice stuffis absolutely the most important
because that's what it is.
Your craft is on the ice.
The off ice stuff is obviously important.
I don't think it's asimportant as being on the ice.
(34:46):
I think that if you went to anhour long stick and talk and you
sat there and you had fun withyour friends and you got scored on
or you just, you're justpassing around, maybe you want to
work on something specific.
I think that's so much morebeneficial than going to a gym and
running on a treadmill just tothe point of driving yourself insane
(35:07):
or going on Instagram andbeing like, oh, okay, here's how
I get a six pack in 10 minutes.
I think that is what stemsinto the unhealthy habits.
And again, going back to thatpassion thing, if you keep feeding
that passion and feeding thatfire and having fun on the ice and
playing shinny with yourfriends, playing stick hockey, I
(35:28):
think that's genuinely whatmakes you one of the better hockey
players, is just stayingwithin the game, but understanding
that that game is not always,I'm in the game right now and I need
to perform.
It's also fun.
And I think that one of the,maybe not the worst, but not, maybe
not the worst way, but a badway to approach it would be being
(35:49):
100% off the ice on your gymand maybe watching YouTube, trying
to understand how to docertain things on the ice and then
going onto the I and trying tobe perfect.
I think that's what driveskids to an unhealthy mental point.
I think that there needs to bea balance between taking hockey seriously
(36:09):
and just going out there andjust falling all over the place.
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The fun word, right?
That's the most important thatI think gets lost now or it becomes,
you know where it startsbecoming a career and probably not
a fun one and stops becomingplaying for the love of the Game.
Right.
(38:40):
I mean, maybe some people thatlisten will think I'm lying, but
the first thing I ask my kidswhen they are done with the game
or practice is did you have fun?
Because that's going to set upmy next question because if it's
no, I didn't have fun, thenthe conversation is going to be completely
different.
So yeah, I think the fun thingis huge.
(39:01):
That's a great answer.
Thank you.
So Eric, you mentioned mydaughter earlier.
Jackson, you know her well,for those obviously that don't know
her, she's 10 years old, she'sa girl, she plays high level hockey
with the boys.
So I would imagine.
And they don't Express it at10 years old, but I would imagine
(39:22):
it's extremely stressful whenshe's in there.
And I gotta give a shout outto Eric for always being her crotch
in between periods.
Whether she has a great periodor she let up a softie.
He's always on the benchgiving her advice, talking to her,
keeping her head in the game.
Jackson knows her well too, byworking with her at some of my clinics
and camps.
So what advice, Jackson, wouldyou have to some parents and even
(39:45):
coaches?
We see it all the time during practices.
How could parents and coachesbest support their young goalies
with their confidence and development?
I would say first andforemost, just be their outlet.
Be a safe, safe space for themto express how they're feeling and
what they're worried about.
And that doesn't mean cryingor being invasive if they don't want
(40:09):
to talk about it or anything.
But having that outlet, likehaving my, my mom and my dad on car
rides home from, from hardgames and that doesn't mean necessarily
lying to them to be like, oh,like you're the best player, like
screw your coach, like that'swhy we're not playing.
But just, but listening is soimportant for parents and really
trying to understand whythey're feeling so certain ways.
(40:33):
And I, I believe that if, ifyou are their outlet and their sort
of comfort system to reallytalk through the highs and the lows,
I, I think that that makesthem take sort of the pressure off
of themselves.
And if you're a parent thatgets, you know, all mad that your
kid didn't have a great gameor maybe was up all night playing
(40:54):
video games and didn't playwell and you know, you feel like
you wasted your money at atournament or something like that,
and then maybe you go quiet inthe car because you're so frustrated,
I can understand that too, butI think that that leads to children
and younger kids just being.
Just reach, then internalizingtheir feelings.
And then most of the time foryoung kids, they can't work through
(41:17):
that in a mature way, andthose just turn into negative feelings.
And then it starts to festerinside and build up and it doesn't
really end up well until theycan sort of get it all out.
And maybe when they get it allout, maybe that's a big crash out
on the ice.
So I think taking thosemitigating steps and checking in
on them and just being alistener in general is, Is the greatest
(41:37):
advice I could give along.
That same, like, advice line.
The best piece, you know,that, that advice that I've heard
is, is exactly the same.
It's, you know, for parents tosay, you know, hey, first and foremost,
like, hey, Jeff, fun.
But then usually my nextquestion is, you want to talk about
your game?
And if it's yes or no, right.
Then it will go from there.
(41:58):
But if it's no, then it's all right.
Hey, just let me know when youwant to talk because maybe they need
a minute to work through it orto try to work through it and just
to let them know that, hey,you're here.
Right.
And you've dropped a lot ofnugget bombs on us over the course
of this podcast so far.
But if you had one that islike your Ted Lasso, I believe, sticker
at the door, what is one pieceof advice for a 10 to 12 year old
(42:22):
or.
Or somewhere in that agerange, goalie chasing, you know,
to be the next Jackson or beyond.
Right, the next Bob orsomebody in the NHL.
What's that going to be?
You know, it's funny youmentioned Ted Lasso, because I was
actually going to say be a goldfish.
That.
That short memory is soimportant, and that was sort of our
(42:45):
mantra.
Our coach actually made uswatch Ted Lasso over the summer because
he thought that that was so important.
And I think if I could haveembodied be a goldfish and having
that short memory at a youngage, I would have been a better player
and a happier player because Iwas replaying goals that happened
to me two weeks before andbeing like, how do you think my coach
(43:07):
is holding that against me?
Do you think, you know, thatgirl in the stand saw that and doesn't
like me anymore.
You just got to.
You just got to forget andforgive yourself and just keep going.
Yeah, I mean, shout out to TedLasso, right?
Great show.
Huge fan.
They're bringing it back, right?
A lot of.
A lot of Good knowledge inthat show.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it should bemandatory viewing for all coaches,
(43:29):
regardless of sport, becauseI, you know, the way he approaches
it was pretty awesome.
Yeah.
Love that you brought up Ted Lasso.
So you talked about at thebeginning of the podcast.
We're going to go back to thebeginning, circle back.
You talked about thefundamentals of skating for a goaltender,
things you like to do early on.
So.
So what are some otherfundamentals that young goalies should,
(43:49):
should focus on at the youngerlevels and how does that progress
as they.
They move up to middle schooland high school and college?
Yeah, the game is changing andyou could get away with being the
best athlete even up to 2014,2015, but now people are moving much
less and it's a positionalsport now.
(44:12):
It used to be Martin Brodeurdoing backflips out there and making
ridiculous saves.
That is completely ridiculousin today's game.
So I think that goaltendersnow from a young age should be more
concerned about theirpositioning and moving the least
amount possible now becauseyou want to be set, you want to be
(44:34):
in the right position from theget go, and you don't want to have
to make those ridiculousathletic saves.
Sometimes they're appropriateand they're exciting to watch.
It's just the nature of the sport.
But I think positioning is themost important, growing aspect of
the game.
Obviously skating comes with that.
Skating is just a must have,but positioning is what's changing
(44:55):
the most to me, because yousee the best goalies and they don't
look like they're doinganything at all.
I remember watching CareyPrice and thinking, this guy is just
not even trying, which isn't true.
He's just so good at what hedoes and he's always in the right
spot.
I noticed that, at least onthe, on the player side.
You know, if you look at someof these collegiate and NHL players,
it seems like over the last2010, however long years, they're
(45:20):
adding inches to their height.
Right.
So like what the, you know,average height, maybe back in the
90s, used to be around 6 foot.
Now you're getting more intolike the 6, 3, 6, 4 with a lot of
goalies.
I'm saying they're gonna behuge as well.
Right.
So maybe that is.
Is to your point that like we're.
Or there's an emphasis onbigger, bigger players, so you want
to be able to move less andtake up more of a net.
(45:43):
Yeah.
Well, the other thing is thatthe pro goalies are sort of shrinking.
Yeah.
Maybe, maybe not as a generaltrend, but some of the better ones
are smaller but they're stilldoing the same thing.
And you're realizing that youdon't have to be the best athlete
to get away with it.
You can be smaller and smallerthan NHLs like 6 foot, 6 foot one.
So they're still big guys butthey are embodying the same aspects
(46:07):
of, of positional awarenessand just being always in the right
spot before anything even happens.
So it looks easy to them.
It's that hockey iq but for agoaltender, right.
So like figuring out where theplay is going to go.
I think that's exactly.
Don't talk about.
Right.
So we talked about a lotduring this podcast.
Is there anything that wedidn't ask you that you've been thinking
(46:29):
about that you wanted to maybeany pieces of advice for players,
parents, coaches that, that wedidn't get to address today?
Stay off social media and notall social media.
There is great social media.
The social media that I amreferring to is the toxic, what the
(46:49):
kids call brain rot and you'redoing what they call doom scrolling
and you're just, it's justconstant dopamine hits and you're
just going through it for hours.
That is literally shrinkingkids brains.
And the social media that youshould be watching and the people
that you should be followingare people like Chuck and the hockey
(47:10):
development and the NHL andyour favorite team and maybe you
friends and stuff, that's all good.
But I think when you get intothe side of social media where it's,
it's sort of toxic anddangerous and kids get exposed to
things that they shouldn't beand start to say things to their
(47:33):
parents and friends that theyshouldn't know.
I think that's dangerous.
Not even just from a hockey orgrowing up perspective, but in a
professional sense too.
You start to see that digitalfootprint sort of come back to bite
people.
So I think you should usesocial media as a tool, as an educational
(47:53):
tool and not as necessarilyentertainment per se all the time.
That's awesome.
I love it.
I want to make sure my kidshear that because they're begging
me for cell phones left and right.
Oh, that's.
That's awesome.
That's perfect.
Right?
And you know, I've got, got agreat friend who trains both my boys
in skills and we're going tobe fortunate enough to have him on
(48:16):
the podcast too here in acouple weeks.
Chase Fuchs, and he's acurrent scout for Red Deer in the
whl.
And I've Asked him, you know,jokingly, how many.
How many kids have you everrecruited on social media?
And he said, zero.
Right.
So it's.
He's like, none.
That's probably the last placeI'd go to look, you know, so, yeah,
I think it just echoes whatyou said.
(48:38):
I know that I'm gonna give youa follow on social media, Right.
Because you've definitelydropped a lot of knowledge here.
And.
And I love to try to justsurround myself with great people.
Thank you.
Like yourself.
So if there's folks out therelistening, is, you know, is there
a way they can get in touchwith you, follow you on social media,
follow your journey, hopefullyback to another national championship.
(48:58):
I am on Instagram andLinkedIn, but this isn't a business
call, so my Instagram is underscore.
Underscore Jackson Cole andfair warning.
I don't post very often, but Iwill be reposting our hockey results
and hopefully some good newswill come across your feed.
(49:19):
Awesome.
You know, I think that's great.
I certainly hope you guys repeat.
You know, I went to college upin Vermont as well, so I know how
the winters can get up there.
So hockey is definitely thething that.
I'm sure it'll get you through that.
Yeah, I guess.
One final question for you.
Hit you with the hard one.
This is a Development Focuspodcast, right?
(49:42):
What is.
What is Jackson Cole'sdefinition of development?
Right.
And that can be mental,physical, spiritual, whatever aspect
you want to take on it.
What's your definition of development?
I would say my definition ofdevelopment would be maturity.
I think maturity embodies allthe senses of what it means to develop.
(50:04):
When you're maturing mentally,you're growing, you're maturing physically.
And with that maturity comesnew responsibilities, a sense of
self awareness and humbleness.
And you start to realize that,you know, I'm the only person that
can dictate my success.
And that comes from, for me,that comes from a perspective of
(50:25):
maturity.
And I think that if you see ahockey player play and then you don't
see him play for five years,and then you're like, wow, he's really
mature now.
He's really taking care ofhimself and he's like, so nice to
talk to, and he looks great onthe ice, I think that is.
Is a successful development inmy eyes.
It's just not saying grow up,but just start to mature, understand
(50:50):
yourself, understand yourbody, and understand the process,
and it's going to be a long one.
That's great.
I mean, you can't do anythingreally well in those arenas until
you're, until you're mature.
Right.
Because you're not going totake anything seriously.
So.
Right.
Awesome.
Awesome answer.
You know, I think for any, forany coach listening out there, I
know you said this wasn't abusiness call, but any coach that's
(51:12):
it's going to need agoaltending coach in the future.
I think you get a.
You got one here in Jackson,that's for sure.
Thank you.
So we know you got to get offto practice in a couple of minutes,
so we're going to wrap it up.
So very informative show forplayers, coaches, parents, everybody.
So thanks a lot for joiningus, Jackson.
(51:33):
Thank you so much for havingme, Jackson.
This is great.
We look forward to seeing youguys march back to a national championship
this year.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it, guys.
All right, so share with afriend, coach, parent or player if
you think they may beinterested and benefit from this
podcast.
If you'd enjoyed this episode,please leave a review on Apple Podcasts
and Spotify.
Make sure you're following uson those platforms as well.
(51:55):
Keep up to date on our growinglist of guests and topics, as well
as our growing list ofCourtney partners.
So thanks for listening toepisode three of Sharpening youg
Edge, and we'll see you next time.
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