December 24, 2024 • 45 mins
The Unstoppable Empress Matilda: Chains, Castles, and Courage
In this episode of 'She Changed History,' the hosts delve into the story of Empress Matilda, an inspiring historical figure who fought valiantly for her rightful place on the English throne. Despite living in a time dominated by men, Matilda's perseverance, strategic mind, and leadership qualities led her to challenge King Stephen in a prolonged civil conflict known as 'The Anarchy.' Listeners will learn about Matilda's battles, her alliances with powerful figures, and how she ultimately ensured her legacy continued through her son, Henry II. The episode highlights her determination and resilience, providing a captivating look at medieval English history.
Sources today are:
https://retrospectjournal.com/2022/10/31/empress-matilda-what-happened-to-englands-first-female-heir/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etng7e53UFw
Beem, C. (2015). The Virtuous Virago: The Empress Matilda and the Politics of Womanhood in Twelfth-Century England . In C. Levin, Queenship and Power (pp. 85-99). New York: St Martins Press LLC.
Castor, D. H. (Director). (2012). She Wolves: Englands Early Queens, Episode 1 [Motion Picture].
Lys, L. (2021, July 19). Empress Matilda: Lady of the English. Retrieved from Museum of Oxford: https://museumofoxford.org/empress-matilda-lady-of-the-english/
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/King-Stephen-Anarchy/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anarchy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_the_Romans
00:00 Introduction and Casual Conversation
01:49 Welcome to She Changed History
02:03 The Unstoppable Empress Matilda
04:54 Matilda's Early Life and Marriage
07:24 The White Ship Disaster and Its Aftermath
14:05 Matilda's Struggle for the Throne
15:36 Stephen's Betrayal and Rise to Power
21:36 The Anarchy: Civil War in England
22:41 The Brutal Reality of Medieval Warfare
23:32 Matilda's Appeal to the Pope and Invasion of England
26:40 The Battle of Lincoln and Matilda's Temporary Victory
28:34 Matilda's Struggle for Recognition and the Flip-Flopping Nobles
31:06 The Stalemate and Matilda's Strategic Shift
39:24 The Final Years and Legacy of Empress Matilda
42:45 Conclusion and Reflections on Gender and Power
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
audio1908345547 (00:08):
What are you minchin?
my gosh, you're kind.
Oh, one of Liz's.
Bloody good.
they're really nice.
Lovely.
Good.
Nice short pastry.
Nice filling.
Lovely.
Anything with pastry, I tend tolike a thin pastry.
(00:29):
I like thinner pastry ratherthan thicker.
I understand that.
I want soggy pastry.
With, um, like with pies, Iprefer them just on top rather
than all around.
Oh, I see.
Less stodgy.
I've just tried one of Ash'sChristmas pudding chocolate
things.
Um, my God, it was strong.
(00:50):
Afterwards I was like, oh mygod, it's like I've had a shot.
A little bit tipsy for this one.
A little bit tipsy.
I enjoyed it, don't get mewrong.
I think she's on to something.
But yeah, if you need to beworking, it's not the one for
you.
No, okay.
should we do it?
You're in the Let's go in.
(01:11):
Hi Simon.
Hi Vicky.
Hi, I'm good.
How are you?
Yeah, okay.
Thanks.
Yeah, yeah.
Just, uh, What date's it today?
We're recording on the 18th, so7 days till Christmas, 11 days
till the wedding, you know,there's a lot going on, night's
fortnight.
Wow.
(01:32):
Yeah, so just a combination ofbusy, tired and excited.
That's okay, hopefully this is anice little respite of escapism.
Uh huh.
whilst your life is propelling100 miles an hour around you.
It's been quite a year.
Yes, it's fantastic.
Well, Welcome to She ChangedHistory.
(01:52):
I've got a little story for you.
I'm ready.
Brilliant.
So this is about a lady called,well, she's an empress, so
already amazing.
So this is the unstoppableEmpress Matilda, chains,
castles, and courage.
What happens when the rightfulheir to the throne is a woman in
(02:13):
a world ruled by men.
Meet Empress Matilda, the almostqueen of England.
Who waged a relentless battlefor her crown in a bloody civil
war that tore a nation apart.
Betrayed by her cousin,outmaneuvered by politics, and
vilified for her ambition,Matilda's story is one of power,
resilience, and determinationjoin us as we uncover the
(02:35):
gripping tale of the anarchy, atime of castles, treachery, and
one woman's fight to reshape thefuture of England.
It's Game of Thrones.
Oh, my God.
So I don't watch Game ofThrones.
You can kill me later.
Um, right, but I can read you.
(02:58):
Matilda was the inspiration forRhaenyra, Targaryen, during the
Dance of the Dragons in theHouse of the Dragon, the Black
Queen.
Is this meaning anything to you?
Yeah.
We're only surviving child andname successor of Viserys.
(03:19):
First, whose death led to thiswar.
Targaryen.
Those words.
So, you were right.
She inspired, a bit in Game ofThrones, House of Dragons.
So, very exciting.
That's so cool that you wentstraight there.
That was going to be my littletidbit for the end.
But that's very cool.
Oh, sorry.
(03:39):
So, the photo that you've put inlooks quite Sorry, yeah.
Honestly, well, we're inmedieval England.
We're before, refinedillustrations.
So all the images of all themain characters in the story I'm
going to show you today haveincredibly long necks.
First of all, like they seem tohave really long necks and all
(04:00):
the drawings, but they also lookall completely different, if you
Google empress Matilda, thiskind of was the most frequent
picture that I found of her.
Um, so take that on face value.
Okay, cool.
So sources today are, aretrospect, journal from 2022, a
(04:22):
really good video by historycalling, around Empress Matilda.
It was really good.
an episode of She's Wolves, uh,that was done in 2012 by
director Castor.
a History UK article, a coupleof Wikipedia articles.
I'm not gonna lie, I had to usethem for definitions.
but let's dive in.
Prefix, there's about eightHenrys.
(04:45):
There's at least two Matildas.
So I've even had to colourcoordinate the Henry's in my
notes, so I know which Henrywe're talking about.
Okay, so Matilda was born on, wethink around 7th of February
1102.
Her dad is King, so King Henrythe first of England and then
his wife.
(05:06):
it was Matilda of Scotland.
So her mum's called Matilda.
Her mum was known as Edith,which I find adorable.
Why don't we have a Queen Edith?
For heaven's sake.
Matilda's granddad was actuallyWilliam the Conqueror.
Battle of Hastings was 1066.
The Battle of Hastings wasbetween Norman French forces led
by William the Conqueror versusAnglo Saxon English army led by
(05:28):
King Harold II.
Harold was killed and thenWilliam the Conqueror ruled and
then his family ruled through.
her dad then became King ofEngland.
So King Henry the first, he hadmany illegitimate children.
(05:48):
Matilda therefore only had onefull sibling.
Her brother was called William.
This is really important.
So just remember William.
he was born younger than her,but obviously Males were
traditionally their father'sheir, so that's how that worked.
Matilda's original life storywas to be engaged off, which she
was incredibly young, at sevenyears old, to another guy called
(06:12):
Henry, or Honric he justhappened to be the Holy Roman
Emperor, otherwise known as theKing of the Romans.
I know what a title.
he was in his twenties.
I had to Google what King of theRomans meant because I was like,
that can't mean King of allRomans.
Yes, it does.
(06:32):
It means, Holy Roman Empire, theruler elected by the empire's
princes to be the future HolyRoman Emperor.
So it's the title you get beforethe coronation.
Poor Matilda's only seven yearsold has been carted off, which
is quite standard, sadly, formedieval times.
And, um, it is gross.
(06:54):
It's disgusting.
so yes, she was betrothed toAnrich, and he was eventually
crowned, but she didn't marryhim, for a little while.
And she didn't live with him fora few more years.
So it was 11, 14, where theymoved in together.
Um, and by then she was 12.
She was 12 Simon.
It's totally fine at 12.
(07:14):
So she's the Empress, the HolyRoman Empress.
and that was meant to be herfortitude.
Yeah.
So she's doing well.
but that all changed.
In 1120, her brother, say littleWilliam, he died in something
called the White Ship Disaster.
Have you heard about the WhiteShip Disaster?
No, no.
(07:34):
Very important.
Um, it occurred on 25th ofNovember, 1120, when, The white
ship carrying William, the onlylegitimate son of King Henry I
of England, hit a rock,essentially, classic Titanic.
It was in the English Channel.
The boat sank off the coast ofNormandy and everyone was killed
(07:56):
on board, including severalnoble men, but most importantly,
this is like Prince George dyingtoday.
Like it's a big deal.
So this horrible tragedy leftKing Henry without a mailer did
it default then to Matilda, ordid they just ignore her?
This is where it gets a bit mmmm mm.
(08:17):
So, there was nobody else.
Matilda's mother had died, sothe king couldn't even really
produce another legitimate, sonvery quickly.
He rapidly remarried to Adelizaof Louvain, with the idea of
producing another legitimateson.
That didn't happen either.
but then another twist.
So five years later, Matilda'shusband on rate the fifth, he
(08:41):
also dies.
So I know.
So Matilda is now a childless,but do, um, what's it called?
Doja?
Doja.
Doja.
Yeah.
Doja.
Um, Empress Darling.
Dja.
Oh Empress.
My apologies.
But because her husband died,she was recalled back to
(09:01):
England.
She retained her title, but shewas brought to England.
Checking on dad, basically makesure he's okay.
when she got on, English soil.
Um, Henry the first made everyattempt to do what you just
explained there.
So try to make sure that itdidn't go to another male, Yeah.
In order to strengthen herposition to do that, Henry in
(09:24):
January 1127, made bishops andbarons swear an oath of loyalty
to Matilda.
So he was like, you promised me.
one of these people who didn'tconvince like, I'm not convinced
how strong that promise was.
Well, having watched Game ofThrones, Oh, I see.
So he was like, please sign thispiece of paper and please swear
(09:45):
on God that you will make mydaughter the heiress.
One of the people who said, yes,I'll do that is her cousin,
Stephen of Blois, B L O I S,whose mother was Henry's sister.
So Matilda and Stephen arecousins.
Okay.
Just put that in the back ofyour mind for later, it's
important.
(10:06):
So there's no formal law inEngland.
barring a woman from inheritingthe throne.
They didn't even think about it.
So it wasn't even in law at thispoint.
but there was also no precedentthat for there to be a Queen
Regnant, if you were ruling inlieu of an absent husband or a
son, like a baby, they kind ofgot on board with that, but in
(10:27):
your own right, it was a bigfat.
Okay.
So you're purely sort oftemporary cover.
That's a great way of thinkingabout it.
Yeah.
but while you're in thattemporary cover, it's important
to note you're doing all thesame stuff.
Oh yeah.
You're ruling.
Yeah.
so what did dad Henry do?
He was like, right, well, youneed to get married again, but
you need to firm this up.
(10:48):
With the idea that then if youproduce a grandson, we can do
the caretaking thing that youjust spoke about.
In 1128, her dad got Matilda tomarry another guy called
Geoffrey, so a new name.
That's exciting, isn't it?
So, Geoffrey was soon to becomethe Count of Anjou, which is an
inland, northwestern France.
(11:09):
So you know like we havecounties, that's like their
district.
It, I really feel for her atthis point, not that I didn't
feel for her before, but she's26, right?
She is empress of all Romanpeople, right?
And then her dad gives her abarely 15 spotty lad who is also
(11:29):
just a count.
He's got a bit of land inFrance.
She was, and quite rightly so,her reaction was like, Ugh, Dad,
I don't want this little boynear me, which is absolutely, I
was like, I understand Matilda,I totally get you.
Hello Matilda, bonjour, I'mJeffrey.
(11:51):
So there was a huge age gap.
And also, she's directed to theRoman EM empire.
Come on.
I don't need this kid.
Because of that, she rarely usedthe Countess of Anjou, which was
her title, and she kept callingherself the Empress.
I'd stick with Empress ratherthan her.
I think so.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
There's not really anywhere togo from there, so.
(12:12):
Yes, so this part of herpersonality is really important
because it shows a couple ofthings it shows how Matilda
wants to create her ownidentity.
She understands power andinfluence It shows clear
determination to go against theway like, oh, technically you
should be Camtas, and she'slike, no.
so it's just really interesting,nobody asked her to do that.
(12:32):
She did that herself.
They were her ways of assertingpower.
Her marriage to little Geoffreywas a bit rough, which is fair,
within a year they weren'treally talking, she actually
moved back to her dad, KingHenry, who was in Normandy at
the time, so he was in a placecalled Rowan, which is a couple
of hours away.
Northwest of Paris, dad listens.
(12:53):
He's like, right, I get it.
So they go back to England andthen he does the whole
allegiance thing again.
So he's like, you swear that youwill give this to Matilda.
But you really, really promise.
Yeah.
In this round of doing it, hecrucially doesn't mention
Geoffrey, which, HistoryCollection really noticed very
(13:14):
interesting given how common itwas, in this period of time for
husbands to hold titles andlands in the right of their
wives.
So it's very interesting that hecut Geoffrey out.
Poor Geoffrey.
The dad tries again with them.
He's like, I still really wantyou to have a son, Matilda, so
she does, she goes back toJeffrey and they actually become
parents.
(13:34):
They give it another go and it'ssuccessful.
So they have a baby boy on the5th.
of March 1133.
The boy they call Henry.
I'm sorry.
Okay.
they had another son later downthe line who they called
Jeffrey.
So they had a very small pool ofnames.
(13:57):
Yeah.
So Jeffrey Jr.
On the 1st of December 1125,while she is pregnant with her
third child, King Henry I dies.
And this is where things getsuper, super messy.
I'm guessing not a smoothtransition to her.
Taking power.
Well, in my notes, I've put sodoes Matilda become the next
ruler?
Question mark.
(14:19):
And if she did, there wouldn'tbe an episode.
So we can safely say no.
And here is the end.
everyone.
for your time.
Little Jeffrey and Jeffrey Jr.
But she had all those promises.
Bloody barons the problem is toclaim King of England, queen of
(14:45):
England, you actually have to goto England.
So, you know, nowadays, so QueenElizabeth second, she died in
Scotland.
In that moment, it.
directly went to King Charleslike, it was, automatic as soon
as they die.
Doesn't happen like that inMedieval England.
You have to jump through a loadof admin and you have to be
there.
(15:06):
Matilda didn't go.
It never says 100 percent whyshe didn't go, it just says
certain reasons in documentationthat's been found.
But we can safely say it'sprobably because she was
struggling with her thirdpregnancy.
Pregnancy can be rough, it canbe absolutely, bed bounds you,
you know, she probably couldn'ttravel the channel.
Yeah, 100%.
(15:27):
So, what does her cousin Steven,who was one of these people who
promised Oh, I'll swear you in,Matilda.
He's like I'm going to take thischance.
So Stephen then makes moves tobecome King Stephen, King of
England.
A little bit about King Stephenis that he's thought, in one of
(15:49):
the articles, he was thought tobe a pleasant looking man with
an agreeable character.
So he was quite well thought ofin medieval England.
Essentially long neck.
There was a vacuum, he saw hisopportunity.
Absolutely.
So he quickly betrayed Matilda.
He binned her off he organizedhis own, coronation.
(16:12):
I wonder how quickly the newstravelled as well, because there
was no X or texting, so if she'sstill in France, he probably
found out days before her thather dad was dead.
Well, he was away as well.
Yeah, between, dad dying andStephen getting on the throne,
we're talking three weeks.
So Stephen made his play hellaquick.
(16:34):
He, the reason he was inBoulogne was because his wife,
also called Matilda, was,Countess of that area.
He traveled to London as soon ashis uncle died with the support
of his brother.
His brother is a guy called, isa guy called Kent.
Hang on, hang on, hang on, hangon.
(16:56):
Is it Henry?
In my notes, this is Pink Henry.
I've given him a pink font.
Who is the Bishop of Winchester.
Again, the reason I say his nameis because he's an important
character later.
So remember Pink Henry, he isthe Bishop, he is Stephen's
brother, they're teaming up.
Stephen, like I said, gothimself crowned at Westminster
(17:16):
Abbey, 22nd of December, 1135.
So how did Stephen make thathappen?
First thing he did, he wasputting a story out.
The King Henry had released hisbarons and his noble men from
their oaths to Matilda on hisdeathbed.
So Stephen said, Henry's changedhis mind, guys.
Actually, he doesn't want awoman to be queen.
(17:40):
Lucky I was the only personthere to hear it.
Nobody would have known.
Yeah.
Stephen would also claim thatthe oaths that they took were
invalid, because it was done byforce, that's probably his
stronger argument of the onesthat he's got.
And he said, Oh, anyway, itdoesn't really matter, because.
you know Matilda's mum, she wasraised in a convent, so that
(18:01):
makes the whole thing,illegitimate, the marriage, the
children, everything.
Really important to know thatwas completely unfunded.
Her mum was not a nun.
She did not take any vows.
She wasn't educated in aconvent.
Stephen was just making all thisup.
The second thing he did was,position himself cleverly.
So he got support from PopeInnocent II.
(18:22):
He got support from English andNorman Barons.
It sounds like they didn'treally put up a fight.
Very little resistance also afew other things kind of built
his case.
So there'd never been a QueenReginald in Norman England.
Matilda's eldest son, Henry, wasstill a toddler and they would
have preferred a man to be incharge over a woman caretaking
(18:44):
for a toddler.
And also, there was alsogrumblings from the noble men
anyway, because they wereannoyed at King Henry I, the one
that had just died, because hehadn't consorted them when
marrying off Matilda toGeoffrey.
They were a little bit upsetthat, they weren't consorted
over that potential future oftheir land.
(19:07):
This was according to achronicler of the time called
William of Moundsbury.
I guess like any oath thatyou're forced into making.
is way less strong than someonewho comes along with a
convincing argument of why youshould make your own mind up to
commit an oath to somethingelse.
And like, if they don't stick tothe oath, well, Henry's gone,
isn't he?
So who's going to Especially atthat time when their
(19:30):
documentation was very differentto our documentation today.
on top of that, Matilda didn'tcome.
So she was in Normandy.
So he walked in, he took thecrown with very little
opposition, what What does theMatilda do?
audio1832870951 (19:44):
First off, she just kind of chill out and watch
him fail, which I reallyappreciate.
I'm not sure, I'm not sure howintentional this is, but I just
love the idea of her sittingback and being like, go on then,
yes, if you think you can do it,off you go.
So she watches him struggle abit.
His personality kind of rubbedpeople at the wrong way,
(20:06):
slightly.
Stephen's inability to makedecisions often led to chaos
during his reign.
And it meant that noble menwould be able to exploit his
weak leadership for their owngain.
There's a quote from an AngloSaxon chronicle, for the times.
In the days of this king therewas nothing but strife, evil,
(20:28):
and robbery.
He lost control, like it wasjust havoc caused.
Stephen also made enemies in thechurch by arresting members he
suspected were giving theircastles over to Matilda as
potential strongholds.
Bit paranoid as well.
He knows he shouldn't there.
However successfully he gottheir oaths in the first place,
(20:50):
he will always be like deceitfuland devious, won't He that guy.
He's always the person who didthat.
Actions speak louder than words,don't they?
By the late 1130s, support forthe king was starting to wane
and this is where Matildastrikes.
(21:10):
She's recovered from her birth.
She's ready.
she enlists the power of heruncle, who is David, new name,
David King of Scotland.
And her half brother, Robert,who is the Earl of Gloucester,
So for the first time, becauseshe's got these two big hitters,
she's got Robert and David,she's kind of on equal standing
(21:33):
with Stephen in the war for thethrone.
is when the anarchy happens.
We heard about the anarchy.
So it was a huge civil war inEngland and Normandy, and it
lasted for ages.
So 1138 to 1153, and it resultedin a widespread breakdown in law
and order.
And basically it was teamMatilda versus team Stephen.
(21:56):
That's what the whole anarchywas about.
That's a massive war.
It's so long.
I'm going to take you throughsome key moments of the war.
so obviously their wars weren'tlike our wars today, the goal
was essentially to securecastles.
So this is a time just forpeople to envisage, where cities
(22:17):
had city walls, you couldn't getthrough the city walls, and then
you had a castle in the middleon a hill, normally.
these are the kind of wars thatwere led by knights, very
excited, so armoured knights,foot soldiers, many of them had
mercenaries.
which is a private individual,had to Google this, a private
(22:37):
individual who joins an armedconflict for personal profit.
So they're just there makinggood, making hay, making dollar
on the fight.
So each side had a body ofknights, they were called, uh,
familiar regis, I think like theround table, you know, these
were a very private inner circleand swords were very common,
(23:00):
along with lances for cavalry,crossbowmen, um, lots of long
bows were used, and occasionallya short bow, so very different
to wars that we've spoken aboutbefore.
Yeah.
This is just.
Proper medieval stuff.
And brutal.
really brutal.
Because it was so long andliving standards weren't what
(23:21):
they are today.
Living standards and healthcareand first aid and no such thing
as painkillers.
And yeah, It shouldn't have goneon this long.
There are so many opportunitiesfor it to stop.
The first thing that Matildadoes is she appeals to the Pope
in 1139 to declare herself Queenof England but the Pope couldn't
(23:41):
really decide.
He just felt a bit indecisive ofit.
He didn't really allege one wayor the other.
So in 1139, with the support ofRobert and David, Empress
Matilda and her forces invadeEngland.
Her husband Geoffrey is keepingNormandy, so she's like, you
focus on Normandy, you keep thatunder our rule, I'll go to
(24:03):
England.
Probably peak fightingcondition, I'd say.
This is where Geoffrey comesinto his own right now.
Go on Geoffrey.
Come on.
There's a real glow up he's gonethrough.
So Robert manages to get toBristol.
And then, Matilda actually getstrapped.
So she gets trapped at theArundel castle, which is the
(24:28):
home of her stepmother, theDowager Queen Adeliza, and her
second husband, Earl of Arundel,who supported Stephen.
So somehow she gets captured bythe evil stepmom, which is
absolutely wild.
She's trapped in this castle,Robert's on the ground doing his
thing, and then King Stephendoes something which looks very
(24:50):
odd.
He lets Matilda go.
He allows her to leave thecastle unopposed and gives her
safe passage to the west reallyodd.
There's a couple of reasonsexplored in the, history
collector video that I wasreferencing, and why he did
this.
One was just chivalry.
one was that he didn't want hisarmy tied up in this castle
(25:14):
while Robert of Gloucesterrunned free.
Like he ran through.
So he was like, actually,probably my biggest problem is
Robert.
It's probably not Matilda, whichis complete opposite of
chivalry.
That is just right up sexism.
It's really patronizing, isn'tit?
Matilda finds, Earl Robert, andthen, they rally the troops so
(25:37):
nobles flock to support them sothe empress comes to control the
southwest of England which makesperfect sense that's Bristol
Gloucester all that kind ofstuff and a lot of the Thames
Valley while Stephen remains incontrol of the southeast okay so
the rest of England and Scotlandwere just a bit annoyed.
I think they were just like,mate, I'm just trying to live
(26:00):
my, I've got some farming to do.
Just need to, just need tosurvive the winter.
So the tactics kind of changed alittle bit over time.
Because the castles at the timewere so secure, it was kind of
really difficult in attackingthem.
So the strategy changed tobecome something called
attrition warfare, which isbasically grinding the other
(26:20):
side down as much as possible,whether it's material money,
people, siege warfare, and thatsort of thing.
I mean it's still done todaywhere they like blockade
shipping routes or something, itII.
Yeah, it's a well known, it's awell known strategy, I think,
in, yeah, yeah.
What happens, is a reallyimportant, uh, event that kind
(26:44):
of tips the balance in Matilda'sfavor, which is something called
the Battle of Lincoln.
in the Battle of Lincoln,Stephen comes with his forces,
Robert of Gloucester comes withhis forces, and in the lead up
to this, Stephen had securedLincoln Castle, but they had
found themselves under attack,from Robert, and he was
(27:05):
supported by, Welsh soldiers,like they had such a big army,
Matilda's side, it was amazing.
Sounds like Quiet on the Lion.
Massive.
And I think that's somethingreally important that kind of
reflect on in the end is thatshe must have had skill to drum
up this support.
So Matilda's Knights launchedtheir charge against Stephen's
(27:26):
Earls.
but it was the Welsh sectionthat actually were defeated.
Robert's army kind of fell down.
But it became clear that theEarls were going to be
outmaneuvered and outnumberedanyway.
So actually, even though it wasa tie battle, Matilda won.
So it was a really fiercebattle, fighting on both sides,
(27:47):
blood spilling out on thestreets.
Stephen's army was essentiallyoverwhelmed.
He was captured and taken toEngland.
Bristol where he was imprisoned.
So they caught the king.
Quite a big Excellent.
And they properly caught himthis time.
They really did.
It is also said she chose tochain him up.
(28:07):
So he was shackled in Bristol.
So she's like, right, let's dothis then.
I bet it was.
And she was mad.
Like the reports are that shewas so angry, so enraged.
She just wants what's rightfullyhers, in her eyes.
And now the whole irony is, isthat she can't just storm in
there.
She actually has to do someadmin now.
(28:30):
She's got to go through all thenoobs.
she would need the cities ofWinchester and London to open
their gates to her becauseobviously they're all within
walls and she would need a validcoronation carried out by the
church.
So who does she need to do that?
Frickin Henry Bishop ofWinchester.
(28:50):
That's who she needs.
So that is Stephen's brother.
Don't know if you remember thatfrom earlier.
So Yeah, he's he's popped up.
He's popped up again.
Um, luckily, he's a wet blanketand he fell into line really
easily.
He was like, of course, Matilda,of course, my favorite Matilda,
(29:10):
and to be fair, she did promisehim that she would consult him
in all major matters concerningthe kingdom.
So she kind of gave him a littlebit of a little bit of a fish.
Yeah.
So Henry the Bishop, he pulledsome strings, and then she was
accepted, as Lady of England andNormandy, on the 7th of April in
(29:31):
Winchester.
And in history, she is oftenknown as the Lady of the
English.
That was what she became.
Right.
Yeah.
Which is the reason, nottechnically.
So, she's got the support ofHenry.
She has not got the support ofthe Arbiters of Canterbury.
(29:51):
Stephen weirdly told hisfollowers, it must've been a
horrible dungeon.
He was like, yeah, yeah, no,it's fine.
I think you should submit toMatilda.
I think this is, this is over.
So it's all sounding quitepositive.
And whilst all this was goingthrough.
because she wants to do itproperly.
She actually is reigning ofEngland, but she hasn't got the
title yet.
So she's doing it in practicalways.
(30:13):
She was allowed in London.
So she got through that hurdle.
So, you know, she practicallywas queen, but in terms of the
coronation, that.
Never happened So the reasonthat never happened was because
she could not get enough supportbasically.
So the English nobles, despiteshe's got this huge power base
in the West of England becausethey're the ones that fought
(30:33):
with her, but the nobles who,they just couldn't decide.
They kind of flip flop.
they said for a little bit,yeah, we, we got your back
Matilda, but a short time afterthey actually changed their mind
and they re declared theirallegiance to Stephen.
So she could not get enoughpublic opinion around that.
These nobles and barons justsound like self serving little
(30:55):
arseholes.
I've put in my notes, they'reflip flops.
Flip flops, yeah.
They're flip flops.
Annoying the Pope through hissupport behind Stephen II, which
was a major problem.
Matilda's kind of running theshow.
She's kind of lady in waiting,queen in waiting.
And whilst that was going on,she wasn't really doing herself
any favours, allegedly.
So, and this is the problem withwomen in power, her personality
(31:20):
was not liked.
She was reported to be arrogant.
She was reported to beunwomanly.
That was a problem.
Yeah.
One of the chroniclers, whichare journalists at the time,
wrote that she had assumed anair of extreme haughtiness, and
she did not have gentle andgraceful manners.
(31:43):
She was reported, that shetreated allies with a coldness.
She's just Queen of England,mate.
Like, she's just, isn't it?
Queen of England, Empress of theRoman Empire.
You just don't like a woman inpower, right?
No, if a man does it, then he'sconfident and charismatic and
decisive.
(32:04):
If a woman does it, then she'suptight and, you know, You have
hit the nail on the head.
she did do some stuff that wouldput people at the wrong way, so
she demanded taxes of heralready exhausted, citizenship
because they've been throughthis horrific war.
And she also lacks, diplomacy.
(32:24):
I think that's perceiveddiplomacy again.
She probably was listening toyou.
She just didn't agree with youin very different things.
And she was happy to tell youthat.
So she makes her way toWestminster.
It's her coronation day.
She's meant to be crowned inlate June, but she was never,
ever declared queen.
(32:45):
What happened was reallyinterestingly.
So, Stephen's in prison,shackled up.
His wife, still shackled.
His wife, Queen Matilda ismissing him.
She's like, I'd really like myhusband back actually.
It's been a while.
So she actually.
(33:06):
Rallied the troops, got hersoldiers and they were just
across the river Thames fromEmpress Matilda getting
coronated.
What they did was they attackedwhen the coronation was meant to
be happening.
So they attacked and they forcedMatilda out and made her retreat
to Oxford and then eventuallyGloucester.
(33:29):
Queen Matilda attacks EmpressMatilda.
And then because of this, allthose noblemen and barons we
were talking about before, theyflip flopped back and they were
like, oh yeah, actually you'reright, it should be King
Stephen.
So they're just supportingwhatever happens.
Oh my god.
I know.
They would really do my head in.
(33:50):
They've just got no backbone.
They've just got no backbonewhatsoever.
They're just, they're justtrying to pace the game.
Peace.
That's all they're trying to do,isn't it?
That's their main goal.
Probably out of their own selfinterest.
One of the people who flipflopped back was Henry the
Bishop, right?
So he was all, he was the onewho helped organize this
fricking coronation and he'sflip flopped back.
So what, Empress Matilda does isshe attacks his castle in late
(34:14):
July.
She's like, I'm not having that.
But because he had QueenMatilda's support.
So his brother and his brother'swife support, they hit back and
they forced Empress Matilda toretreat.
what then happened is that theytook Robert.
So, you know, her ally, Roberthas been from the beginning,
Earl of Gloucester.
(34:36):
That's it.
This is a big blow to Matilda.
He's been with her through thickand thin.
He was the one that helped her,come across Normandy in the
first place.
So the only way to get Robertback, we Matilda said, so swap
in Robert for Steven.
So you've got your prisoner now.
I've got my prisoner now.
I want yours.
You want mine.
That's a prisoner swap.
(34:56):
Do it on a bridge.
Prisoner swap.
Yeah.
That's what happens.
So King Stephen is thenreleased.
and he actually went back topower.
So he became king again on the1st of November, 1141.
While Stephen was released andin power, the war itself
continued.
So Matilda did not give up.
I know.
(35:17):
for several years with bothsides enabled to initiate a
significant defeats against oneanother.
So they're quite evenly matched.
Matilda was banished fromWestminster.
She was forced out to Oxford andGloucester where she regrouped.
Oxford actually had really goodcity walls and it had rivers
protecting it so she felt quitesafe.
What she ended up doing wassending her brother Robert,
(35:39):
who's been in prison, she senthim to France and said go and
get Geoffrey.
Geoffrey's been doing a crackingjob in Northern India, I need
him back over here.
This shit just got real, nowthat Geoffrey's getting
involved.
We were a bit harsh on Geoffreyin the end, but he could be the
saviour, we don't know.
Oh my god.
Maybe, maybe.
(36:00):
Stephen launched a surpriseattack on Matilda and her small
army, leading many to retreat tothe castle where he had actually
laid siege there for threemonths.
So, um, He forced her into thiscastle knowing he owned that
castle and he knew once she wasin there, he would be able to
force her out.
(36:21):
he did, he captured her.
So Matilda is now a prisoner.
this is in 1142.
This goes on for, I think thesiege happens in September.
And then she's kept prisoner fora little while.
It's December and it's snowy.
So their snow is not our snow.
Snow nearly a thousand years agois very different to snow today.
(36:42):
It was thick.
They had not had global warmingand they didn't have even the
equipment.
That we had today, you know,like there's no cozy park, park,
a jacket and a scarf.
Um, so they didn't have all thatasphalt on the road to keep the
sun's warmth in and snow for youor four vehicles.
(37:02):
You know what?
I don't think they did.
I don't think they have.
but that doesn't stop Matilda.
She makes this escape a coupleof nights and her managed to
sneak out the building.
there's a couple of.
Stories about how they did it.
One thinks they exited throughthe posting gate.
Other people think that she waslowered down the walls of the
castle with a rope.
Either way, quite dramatic.
(37:24):
And then she had to walk acrossthe Thames, which had frozen
over, which is very cool.
And then they travel toAbingdon.
From there, she made her way toher ally, a guy called Brian,
completely Um, prime fit count,and then she went to Wilshire
where she set up base, in theBishop of Salisbury's Castle,
(37:46):
according to historian Marjorieship, because Matilda knew She
couldn't beat Stephen, butStephen couldn't beat her.
They'd become on this likestalemate.
Matilda made a really cleverplay and like changed tactic
completely and she's like, okay,well Rather than securing
England for myself because theyseem to have a problem with me
(38:07):
How about I start securing itfor my son Henry?
So by this time Henry's growingup.
He's not a toddler anymore PoorHenry's having quite a traumatic
childhood he's like a kidbetween divorced parents.
So like he spends a lot of timein Normandy Yeah, so he spends a
weekend in Normandy, pops backto Gloucester, goes to Oxford,
(38:28):
so he's traveling about, blesshim.
Matilda started including Henryin all her royal charters and
her paperwork and things.
So she was making serious plays.
she stayed in England until1148, issuing decrees and
minting queenage while theanarchy continued.
but she wasn't able to fullyexercise her royal power over
(38:49):
the country, obviously,Unfortunately in 1147, this is
like another catalyst forMatilda's change in thinking is
that her brother Robert, who'sbeen amazing, he died in 1147.
Mm-hmm on top of everythingelse, the poet was demanding
that she vacate the Salisburycastle.
The pope was, even though it wasthe bishop's castle, the Pope
was like, you can't stay hereanymore.
(39:09):
Yeah.
But because Henry's now oldenough to fight for his right
and fight for something that ispotentially his, she kind of
passes that off to Henry.
She, like, enlists him to, youcarry on the good fight.
So Matilda at this point returnsto Normandy to see her family
that she hasn't seen in nearly adecade.
(39:30):
And it's at this point she stopsusing the title Lady of the
English.
Her personal fight for thethrone is over.
She stays in mainland Europe forthe rest of her life, helping
her husband and son, becauselet's be honest, they still own
land, manage their businesses.
And she also acts on theirbehalf when they're absent,
(39:50):
offers advice.
She kind of becomes aconsultant, I guess.
so she passes the baton, toHenry.
Henry marries up, he's a cleversausage.
He marries Eleanor of Aquitaineand she is the ex wife of the
King of France and an heiress.
(40:11):
So he kind of marries intomoney, which is great, gives him
material and ways to invadeEngland, which he eventually
does in 1153.
King Stephen also has a son.
So it's kind of like the battlespassed down a generation.
(40:31):
So he also has a son eustace, EU S T A C E.
So King Stephen's making plansfor his son to become king, but
this is really sad, is thatEstes dies.
So in the Horrible History Song,you never hear King Estes
because it becomes king.
Henry.
So what happens is they make atruce, Matilda and Stephen make
(40:55):
a truce and agree that Stephenwill be king for the rest of his
life, then it will pass on toHenry.
And that's what happened.
Matilda will sort of leave himin peace until that happens.
So Stephen can just do histhing.
Yeah.
But when the time comes, Yep,and that time did happen, and,
it all came good, empressMatilda lived out her days in
(41:18):
Normandy.
She died in 1167 at the age of65, and she's buried in front of
the High Altar in the Abbey ofBeck.
So she came good in the end.
She was clever about how she didit, but she managed to get the
succession of the throne backinto the family line where it
(41:39):
should have been.
So her family lived on, and Isuppose it's a lesson in knowing
when you're, maybe not even whenyou're beat, but when, it seemed
a fruitless endeavour.
Just this war would have trudgedon and on and on.
And obviously there was no oneelse there.
These barons and bishops justflip flopping between, no one
else was going to make adecisive decision.
It seemed like it sort of neededthat agreement between the two
(42:00):
of them.
Yeah, and she did it.
And I suppose Stephen kept hispower.
Yeah, Stephen interestingly hadanother son, William, but for an
unknown reason he wasn'tconsidered for, being heir.
I couldn't find much more onthat, so that's why we have King
Henry the second.
Henry the second.
(42:21):
So it's sort of Henry the first,Stephen, Matilda, bracket.
And Henry the second being Henrythe first's grandson.
That's it.
So it did, it did flow.
It's just that Stephen replacedMatilda, just with a right old
mess in the middle.
Yeah.
(42:42):
That's it.
Good.
I'm pleased you've got thatbecause it was a really hard
story to convey.
in conclusion, I've written herethat I think gender played a
huge part in her story.
There has been some arguments byhistorians that it, It didn't
because of that massive showdownwhere Stephen's wife was like,
give my husband back and shelike, stormed the cryonation.
And they were like, well, don'tsay it's because she's a woman,
(43:04):
because she also fought a woman,but I think that double standard
part before the coronation of,oh, she's arrogant, you wouldn't
say that, you wouldn't say thatif that was a man.
Based on everything I've learnedin the last hour, I'm calling
bullshit on that.
Yeah.
It sounds like if she was a, ifshe was a man, there wouldn't
have been any question in thefirst place.
She would have just taken thethrone from her father.
(43:25):
That would have been that, yeah.
And then Stephen wouldn't haveconsidered coming along and
trying to usurp the throne.
I think she's got leadership.
She controlled that entire armyfor so long.
She built the allies.
Also she was relentless.
She managed to get what shewanted in the end, she just went
about it a different way.
Incredibly determined.
And I mean, she could, it soundslike, Empress of the Roman
(43:47):
Empire, you got Geoffrey as yourhusband, you're living in
Normandy, she could have justLet it go.
Oh, well, that's all right then.
But it seems that a slight senseof unfairness which crops up in
so many of these stories.
And injustice, yeah.
And injustice, yeah.
And just wasn't standing for it.
I love that she went back toattack Stephen's brother.
(44:13):
I loved it.
I thought it was just reallyexciting and it was, yeah, it
was fun, talking about someonefrom, because this is way
further back in history thananyone we've discussed so far.
It's so out of my comfort zonetalking about this kind of
stuff.
Yeah.
Especially when they're allcalled Henry.
I know, I was like, how do Imake this into a story where
they're actual people you careabout and they've got their own
personalities So yeah.
(44:34):
Now I'm pleased you enjoyed it.
Thank you.
It means a lot.
Yeah.
Nice one.
It was really good.
Well, thank you, Vicky.
Yeah, nice distraction to thewedding.
Yeah.
I don't want any of this familydrama.
No, I really enjoyed that.
Amazing.
And we hope you enjoyed it too.
(44:55):
Thank you so much for listening.
Um, if you have any suggestionsof women you want us to cover
please let us know atshechangedhistory at gmail.
com.
If you're enjoying it, let usknow.
rate, review and subscribe, wehope you have a really
wonderful, restful, festiveperiod, if you celebrate or if
you don't.
audio1018601680 (45:13):
Brilliant.
Okay.
Thanks folks.
See you next time.
Thank you.
Bye
What are you minchin?
my gosh, you're kind.
Oh, one of Liz's.
Bloody good.
they're really nice.
Lovely.
Good.
Nice short pastry.
Nice filling.
Lovely.
Anything with pastry, I tend tolike a thin pastry.
(00:29):
I like thinner pastry ratherthan thicker.
I understand that.
I want soggy pastry.
With, um, like with pies, Iprefer them just on top rather
than all around.
Oh, I see.
Less stodgy.
I've just tried one of Ash'sChristmas pudding chocolate
things.
Um, my God, it was strong.
(00:50):
Afterwards I was like, oh mygod, it's like I've had a shot.
A little bit tipsy for this one.
A little bit tipsy.
I enjoyed it, don't get mewrong.
I think she's on to something.
But yeah, if you need to beworking, it's not the one for
you.
No, okay.
should we do it?
You're in the Let's go in.
(01:11):
Hi Simon.
Hi Vicky.
Hi, I'm good.
How are you?
Yeah, okay.
Thanks.
Yeah, yeah.
Just, uh, What date's it today?
We're recording on the 18th, so7 days till Christmas, 11 days
till the wedding, you know,there's a lot going on, night's
fortnight.
Wow.
(01:32):
Yeah, so just a combination ofbusy, tired and excited.
That's okay, hopefully this is anice little respite of escapism.
Uh huh.
whilst your life is propelling100 miles an hour around you.
It's been quite a year.
Yes, it's fantastic.
Well, Welcome to She ChangedHistory.
(01:52):
I've got a little story for you.
I'm ready.
Brilliant.
So this is about a lady called,well, she's an empress, so
already amazing.
So this is the unstoppableEmpress Matilda, chains,
castles, and courage.
What happens when the rightfulheir to the throne is a woman in
(02:13):
a world ruled by men.
Meet Empress Matilda, the almostqueen of England.
Who waged a relentless battlefor her crown in a bloody civil
war that tore a nation apart.
Betrayed by her cousin,outmaneuvered by politics, and
vilified for her ambition,Matilda's story is one of power,
resilience, and determinationjoin us as we uncover the
(02:35):
gripping tale of the anarchy, atime of castles, treachery, and
one woman's fight to reshape thefuture of England.
It's Game of Thrones.
Oh, my God.
So I don't watch Game ofThrones.
You can kill me later.
Um, right, but I can read you.
(02:58):
Matilda was the inspiration forRhaenyra, Targaryen, during the
Dance of the Dragons in theHouse of the Dragon, the Black
Queen.
Is this meaning anything to you?
Yeah.
We're only surviving child andname successor of Viserys.
(03:19):
First, whose death led to thiswar.
Targaryen.
Those words.
So, you were right.
She inspired, a bit in Game ofThrones, House of Dragons.
So, very exciting.
That's so cool that you wentstraight there.
That was going to be my littletidbit for the end.
But that's very cool.
Oh, sorry.
(03:39):
So, the photo that you've put inlooks quite Sorry, yeah.
Honestly, well, we're inmedieval England.
We're before, refinedillustrations.
So all the images of all themain characters in the story I'm
going to show you today haveincredibly long necks.
First of all, like they seem tohave really long necks and all
(04:00):
the drawings, but they also lookall completely different, if you
Google empress Matilda, thiskind of was the most frequent
picture that I found of her.
Um, so take that on face value.
Okay, cool.
So sources today are, aretrospect, journal from 2022, a
(04:22):
really good video by historycalling, around Empress Matilda.
It was really good.
an episode of She's Wolves, uh,that was done in 2012 by
director Castor.
a History UK article, a coupleof Wikipedia articles.
I'm not gonna lie, I had to usethem for definitions.
but let's dive in.
Prefix, there's about eightHenrys.
(04:45):
There's at least two Matildas.
So I've even had to colourcoordinate the Henry's in my
notes, so I know which Henrywe're talking about.
Okay, so Matilda was born on, wethink around 7th of February
1102.
Her dad is King, so King Henrythe first of England and then
his wife.
(05:06):
it was Matilda of Scotland.
So her mum's called Matilda.
Her mum was known as Edith,which I find adorable.
Why don't we have a Queen Edith?
For heaven's sake.
Matilda's granddad was actuallyWilliam the Conqueror.
Battle of Hastings was 1066.
The Battle of Hastings wasbetween Norman French forces led
by William the Conqueror versusAnglo Saxon English army led by
(05:28):
King Harold II.
Harold was killed and thenWilliam the Conqueror ruled and
then his family ruled through.
her dad then became King ofEngland.
So King Henry the first, he hadmany illegitimate children.
(05:48):
Matilda therefore only had onefull sibling.
Her brother was called William.
This is really important.
So just remember William.
he was born younger than her,but obviously Males were
traditionally their father'sheir, so that's how that worked.
Matilda's original life storywas to be engaged off, which she
was incredibly young, at sevenyears old, to another guy called
(06:12):
Henry, or Honric he justhappened to be the Holy Roman
Emperor, otherwise known as theKing of the Romans.
I know what a title.
he was in his twenties.
I had to Google what King of theRomans meant because I was like,
that can't mean King of allRomans.
Yes, it does.
(06:32):
It means, Holy Roman Empire, theruler elected by the empire's
princes to be the future HolyRoman Emperor.
So it's the title you get beforethe coronation.
Poor Matilda's only seven yearsold has been carted off, which
is quite standard, sadly, formedieval times.
And, um, it is gross.
(06:54):
It's disgusting.
so yes, she was betrothed toAnrich, and he was eventually
crowned, but she didn't marryhim, for a little while.
And she didn't live with him fora few more years.
So it was 11, 14, where theymoved in together.
Um, and by then she was 12.
She was 12 Simon.
It's totally fine at 12.
(07:14):
So she's the Empress, the HolyRoman Empress.
and that was meant to be herfortitude.
Yeah.
So she's doing well.
but that all changed.
In 1120, her brother, say littleWilliam, he died in something
called the White Ship Disaster.
Have you heard about the WhiteShip Disaster?
No, no.
(07:34):
Very important.
Um, it occurred on 25th ofNovember, 1120, when, The white
ship carrying William, the onlylegitimate son of King Henry I
of England, hit a rock,essentially, classic Titanic.
It was in the English Channel.
The boat sank off the coast ofNormandy and everyone was killed
(07:56):
on board, including severalnoble men, but most importantly,
this is like Prince George dyingtoday.
Like it's a big deal.
So this horrible tragedy leftKing Henry without a mailer did
it default then to Matilda, ordid they just ignore her?
This is where it gets a bit mmmm mm.
(08:17):
So, there was nobody else.
Matilda's mother had died, sothe king couldn't even really
produce another legitimate, sonvery quickly.
He rapidly remarried to Adelizaof Louvain, with the idea of
producing another legitimateson.
That didn't happen either.
but then another twist.
So five years later, Matilda'shusband on rate the fifth, he
(08:41):
also dies.
So I know.
So Matilda is now a childless,but do, um, what's it called?
Doja?
Doja.
Doja.
Yeah.
Doja.
Um, Empress Darling.
Dja.
Oh Empress.
My apologies.
But because her husband died,she was recalled back to
(09:01):
England.
She retained her title, but shewas brought to England.
Checking on dad, basically makesure he's okay.
when she got on, English soil.
Um, Henry the first made everyattempt to do what you just
explained there.
So try to make sure that itdidn't go to another male, Yeah.
In order to strengthen herposition to do that, Henry in
(09:24):
January 1127, made bishops andbarons swear an oath of loyalty
to Matilda.
So he was like, you promised me.
one of these people who didn'tconvince like, I'm not convinced
how strong that promise was.
Well, having watched Game ofThrones, Oh, I see.
So he was like, please sign thispiece of paper and please swear
(09:45):
on God that you will make mydaughter the heiress.
One of the people who said, yes,I'll do that is her cousin,
Stephen of Blois, B L O I S,whose mother was Henry's sister.
So Matilda and Stephen arecousins.
Okay.
Just put that in the back ofyour mind for later, it's
important.
(10:06):
So there's no formal law inEngland.
barring a woman from inheritingthe throne.
They didn't even think about it.
So it wasn't even in law at thispoint.
but there was also no precedentthat for there to be a Queen
Regnant, if you were ruling inlieu of an absent husband or a
son, like a baby, they kind ofgot on board with that, but in
(10:27):
your own right, it was a bigfat.
Okay.
So you're purely sort oftemporary cover.
That's a great way of thinkingabout it.
Yeah.
but while you're in thattemporary cover, it's important
to note you're doing all thesame stuff.
Oh yeah.
You're ruling.
Yeah.
so what did dad Henry do?
He was like, right, well, youneed to get married again, but
you need to firm this up.
(10:48):
With the idea that then if youproduce a grandson, we can do
the caretaking thing that youjust spoke about.
In 1128, her dad got Matilda tomarry another guy called
Geoffrey, so a new name.
That's exciting, isn't it?
So, Geoffrey was soon to becomethe Count of Anjou, which is an
inland, northwestern France.
(11:09):
So you know like we havecounties, that's like their
district.
It, I really feel for her atthis point, not that I didn't
feel for her before, but she's26, right?
She is empress of all Romanpeople, right?
And then her dad gives her abarely 15 spotty lad who is also
(11:29):
just a count.
He's got a bit of land inFrance.
She was, and quite rightly so,her reaction was like, Ugh, Dad,
I don't want this little boynear me, which is absolutely, I
was like, I understand Matilda,I totally get you.
Hello Matilda, bonjour, I'mJeffrey.
(11:51):
So there was a huge age gap.
And also, she's directed to theRoman EM empire.
Come on.
I don't need this kid.
Because of that, she rarely usedthe Countess of Anjou, which was
her title, and she kept callingherself the Empress.
I'd stick with Empress ratherthan her.
I think so.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
There's not really anywhere togo from there, so.
(12:12):
Yes, so this part of herpersonality is really important
because it shows a couple ofthings it shows how Matilda
wants to create her ownidentity.
She understands power andinfluence It shows clear
determination to go against theway like, oh, technically you
should be Camtas, and she'slike, no.
so it's just really interesting,nobody asked her to do that.
(12:32):
She did that herself.
They were her ways of assertingpower.
Her marriage to little Geoffreywas a bit rough, which is fair,
within a year they weren'treally talking, she actually
moved back to her dad, KingHenry, who was in Normandy at
the time, so he was in a placecalled Rowan, which is a couple
of hours away.
Northwest of Paris, dad listens.
(12:53):
He's like, right, I get it.
So they go back to England andthen he does the whole
allegiance thing again.
So he's like, you swear that youwill give this to Matilda.
But you really, really promise.
Yeah.
In this round of doing it, hecrucially doesn't mention
Geoffrey, which, HistoryCollection really noticed very
(13:14):
interesting given how common itwas, in this period of time for
husbands to hold titles andlands in the right of their
wives.
So it's very interesting that hecut Geoffrey out.
Poor Geoffrey.
The dad tries again with them.
He's like, I still really wantyou to have a son, Matilda, so
she does, she goes back toJeffrey and they actually become
parents.
(13:34):
They give it another go and it'ssuccessful.
So they have a baby boy on the5th.
of March 1133.
The boy they call Henry.
I'm sorry.
Okay.
they had another son later downthe line who they called
Jeffrey.
So they had a very small pool ofnames.
(13:57):
Yeah.
So Jeffrey Jr.
On the 1st of December 1125,while she is pregnant with her
third child, King Henry I dies.
And this is where things getsuper, super messy.
I'm guessing not a smoothtransition to her.
Taking power.
Well, in my notes, I've put sodoes Matilda become the next
ruler?
Question mark.
(14:19):
And if she did, there wouldn'tbe an episode.
So we can safely say no.
And here is the end.
everyone.
for your time.
Little Jeffrey and Jeffrey Jr.
But she had all those promises.
Bloody barons the problem is toclaim King of England, queen of
(14:45):
England, you actually have to goto England.
So, you know, nowadays, so QueenElizabeth second, she died in
Scotland.
In that moment, it.
directly went to King Charleslike, it was, automatic as soon
as they die.
Doesn't happen like that inMedieval England.
You have to jump through a loadof admin and you have to be
there.
(15:06):
Matilda didn't go.
It never says 100 percent whyshe didn't go, it just says
certain reasons in documentationthat's been found.
But we can safely say it'sprobably because she was
struggling with her thirdpregnancy.
Pregnancy can be rough, it canbe absolutely, bed bounds you,
you know, she probably couldn'ttravel the channel.
Yeah, 100%.
(15:27):
So, what does her cousin Steven,who was one of these people who
promised Oh, I'll swear you in,Matilda.
He's like I'm going to take thischance.
So Stephen then makes moves tobecome King Stephen, King of
England.
A little bit about King Stephenis that he's thought, in one of
(15:49):
the articles, he was thought tobe a pleasant looking man with
an agreeable character.
So he was quite well thought ofin medieval England.
Essentially long neck.
There was a vacuum, he saw hisopportunity.
Absolutely.
So he quickly betrayed Matilda.
He binned her off he organizedhis own, coronation.
(16:12):
I wonder how quickly the newstravelled as well, because there
was no X or texting, so if she'sstill in France, he probably
found out days before her thather dad was dead.
Well, he was away as well.
Yeah, between, dad dying andStephen getting on the throne,
we're talking three weeks.
So Stephen made his play hellaquick.
(16:34):
He, the reason he was inBoulogne was because his wife,
also called Matilda, was,Countess of that area.
He traveled to London as soon ashis uncle died with the support
of his brother.
His brother is a guy called, isa guy called Kent.
Hang on, hang on, hang on, hangon.
(16:56):
Is it Henry?
In my notes, this is Pink Henry.
I've given him a pink font.
Who is the Bishop of Winchester.
Again, the reason I say his nameis because he's an important
character later.
So remember Pink Henry, he isthe Bishop, he is Stephen's
brother, they're teaming up.
Stephen, like I said, gothimself crowned at Westminster
(17:16):
Abbey, 22nd of December, 1135.
So how did Stephen make thathappen?
First thing he did, he wasputting a story out.
The King Henry had released hisbarons and his noble men from
their oaths to Matilda on hisdeathbed.
So Stephen said, Henry's changedhis mind, guys.
Actually, he doesn't want awoman to be queen.
(17:40):
Lucky I was the only personthere to hear it.
Nobody would have known.
Yeah.
Stephen would also claim thatthe oaths that they took were
invalid, because it was done byforce, that's probably his
stronger argument of the onesthat he's got.
And he said, Oh, anyway, itdoesn't really matter, because.
you know Matilda's mum, she wasraised in a convent, so that
(18:01):
makes the whole thing,illegitimate, the marriage, the
children, everything.
Really important to know thatwas completely unfunded.
Her mum was not a nun.
She did not take any vows.
She wasn't educated in aconvent.
Stephen was just making all thisup.
The second thing he did was,position himself cleverly.
So he got support from PopeInnocent II.
(18:22):
He got support from English andNorman Barons.
It sounds like they didn'treally put up a fight.
Very little resistance also afew other things kind of built
his case.
So there'd never been a QueenReginald in Norman England.
Matilda's eldest son, Henry, wasstill a toddler and they would
have preferred a man to be incharge over a woman caretaking
(18:44):
for a toddler.
And also, there was alsogrumblings from the noble men
anyway, because they wereannoyed at King Henry I, the one
that had just died, because hehadn't consorted them when
marrying off Matilda toGeoffrey.
They were a little bit upsetthat, they weren't consorted
over that potential future oftheir land.
(19:07):
This was according to achronicler of the time called
William of Moundsbury.
I guess like any oath thatyou're forced into making.
is way less strong than someonewho comes along with a
convincing argument of why youshould make your own mind up to
commit an oath to somethingelse.
And like, if they don't stick tothe oath, well, Henry's gone,
isn't he?
So who's going to Especially atthat time when their
(19:30):
documentation was very differentto our documentation today.
on top of that, Matilda didn'tcome.
So she was in Normandy.
So he walked in, he took thecrown with very little
opposition, what What does theMatilda do?
audio1832870951 (19:44):
First off, she just kind of chill out and watch
him fail, which I reallyappreciate.
I'm not sure, I'm not sure howintentional this is, but I just
love the idea of her sittingback and being like, go on then,
yes, if you think you can do it,off you go.
So she watches him struggle abit.
His personality kind of rubbedpeople at the wrong way,
(20:06):
slightly.
Stephen's inability to makedecisions often led to chaos
during his reign.
And it meant that noble menwould be able to exploit his
weak leadership for their owngain.
There's a quote from an AngloSaxon chronicle, for the times.
In the days of this king therewas nothing but strife, evil,
(20:28):
and robbery.
He lost control, like it wasjust havoc caused.
Stephen also made enemies in thechurch by arresting members he
suspected were giving theircastles over to Matilda as
potential strongholds.
Bit paranoid as well.
He knows he shouldn't there.
However successfully he gottheir oaths in the first place,
(20:50):
he will always be like deceitfuland devious, won't He that guy.
He's always the person who didthat.
Actions speak louder than words,don't they?
By the late 1130s, support forthe king was starting to wane
and this is where Matildastrikes.
(21:10):
She's recovered from her birth.
She's ready.
she enlists the power of heruncle, who is David, new name,
David King of Scotland.
And her half brother, Robert,who is the Earl of Gloucester,
So for the first time, becauseshe's got these two big hitters,
she's got Robert and David,she's kind of on equal standing
(21:33):
with Stephen in the war for thethrone.
is when the anarchy happens.
We heard about the anarchy.
So it was a huge civil war inEngland and Normandy, and it
lasted for ages.
So 1138 to 1153, and it resultedin a widespread breakdown in law
and order.
And basically it was teamMatilda versus team Stephen.
(21:56):
That's what the whole anarchywas about.
That's a massive war.
It's so long.
I'm going to take you throughsome key moments of the war.
so obviously their wars weren'tlike our wars today, the goal
was essentially to securecastles.
So this is a time just forpeople to envisage, where cities
(22:17):
had city walls, you couldn't getthrough the city walls, and then
you had a castle in the middleon a hill, normally.
these are the kind of wars thatwere led by knights, very
excited, so armoured knights,foot soldiers, many of them had
mercenaries.
which is a private individual,had to Google this, a private
(22:37):
individual who joins an armedconflict for personal profit.
So they're just there makinggood, making hay, making dollar
on the fight.
So each side had a body ofknights, they were called, uh,
familiar regis, I think like theround table, you know, these
were a very private inner circleand swords were very common,
(23:00):
along with lances for cavalry,crossbowmen, um, lots of long
bows were used, and occasionallya short bow, so very different
to wars that we've spoken aboutbefore.
Yeah.
This is just.
Proper medieval stuff.
And brutal.
really brutal.
Because it was so long andliving standards weren't what
(23:21):
they are today.
Living standards and healthcareand first aid and no such thing
as painkillers.
And yeah, It shouldn't have goneon this long.
There are so many opportunitiesfor it to stop.
The first thing that Matildadoes is she appeals to the Pope
in 1139 to declare herself Queenof England but the Pope couldn't
(23:41):
really decide.
He just felt a bit indecisive ofit.
He didn't really allege one wayor the other.
So in 1139, with the support ofRobert and David, Empress
Matilda and her forces invadeEngland.
Her husband Geoffrey is keepingNormandy, so she's like, you
focus on Normandy, you keep thatunder our rule, I'll go to
(24:03):
England.
Probably peak fightingcondition, I'd say.
This is where Geoffrey comesinto his own right now.
Go on Geoffrey.
Come on.
There's a real glow up he's gonethrough.
So Robert manages to get toBristol.
And then, Matilda actually getstrapped.
So she gets trapped at theArundel castle, which is the
(24:28):
home of her stepmother, theDowager Queen Adeliza, and her
second husband, Earl of Arundel,who supported Stephen.
So somehow she gets captured bythe evil stepmom, which is
absolutely wild.
She's trapped in this castle,Robert's on the ground doing his
thing, and then King Stephendoes something which looks very
(24:50):
odd.
He lets Matilda go.
He allows her to leave thecastle unopposed and gives her
safe passage to the west reallyodd.
There's a couple of reasonsexplored in the, history
collector video that I wasreferencing, and why he did
this.
One was just chivalry.
one was that he didn't want hisarmy tied up in this castle
(25:14):
while Robert of Gloucesterrunned free.
Like he ran through.
So he was like, actually,probably my biggest problem is
Robert.
It's probably not Matilda, whichis complete opposite of
chivalry.
That is just right up sexism.
It's really patronizing, isn'tit?
Matilda finds, Earl Robert, andthen, they rally the troops so
(25:37):
nobles flock to support them sothe empress comes to control the
southwest of England which makesperfect sense that's Bristol
Gloucester all that kind ofstuff and a lot of the Thames
Valley while Stephen remains incontrol of the southeast okay so
the rest of England and Scotlandwere just a bit annoyed.
I think they were just like,mate, I'm just trying to live
(26:00):
my, I've got some farming to do.
Just need to, just need tosurvive the winter.
So the tactics kind of changed alittle bit over time.
Because the castles at the timewere so secure, it was kind of
really difficult in attackingthem.
So the strategy changed tobecome something called
attrition warfare, which isbasically grinding the other
(26:20):
side down as much as possible,whether it's material money,
people, siege warfare, and thatsort of thing.
I mean it's still done todaywhere they like blockade
shipping routes or something, itII.
Yeah, it's a well known, it's awell known strategy, I think,
in, yeah, yeah.
What happens, is a reallyimportant, uh, event that kind
(26:44):
of tips the balance in Matilda'sfavor, which is something called
the Battle of Lincoln.
in the Battle of Lincoln,Stephen comes with his forces,
Robert of Gloucester comes withhis forces, and in the lead up
to this, Stephen had securedLincoln Castle, but they had
found themselves under attack,from Robert, and he was
(27:05):
supported by, Welsh soldiers,like they had such a big army,
Matilda's side, it was amazing.
Sounds like Quiet on the Lion.
Massive.
And I think that's somethingreally important that kind of
reflect on in the end is thatshe must have had skill to drum
up this support.
So Matilda's Knights launchedtheir charge against Stephen's
(27:26):
Earls.
but it was the Welsh sectionthat actually were defeated.
Robert's army kind of fell down.
But it became clear that theEarls were going to be
outmaneuvered and outnumberedanyway.
So actually, even though it wasa tie battle, Matilda won.
So it was a really fiercebattle, fighting on both sides,
(27:47):
blood spilling out on thestreets.
Stephen's army was essentiallyoverwhelmed.
He was captured and taken toEngland.
Bristol where he was imprisoned.
So they caught the king.
Quite a big Excellent.
And they properly caught himthis time.
They really did.
It is also said she chose tochain him up.
(28:07):
So he was shackled in Bristol.
So she's like, right, let's dothis then.
I bet it was.
And she was mad.
Like the reports are that shewas so angry, so enraged.
She just wants what's rightfullyhers, in her eyes.
And now the whole irony is, isthat she can't just storm in
there.
She actually has to do someadmin now.
(28:30):
She's got to go through all thenoobs.
she would need the cities ofWinchester and London to open
their gates to her becauseobviously they're all within
walls and she would need a validcoronation carried out by the
church.
So who does she need to do that?
Frickin Henry Bishop ofWinchester.
(28:50):
That's who she needs.
So that is Stephen's brother.
Don't know if you remember thatfrom earlier.
So Yeah, he's he's popped up.
He's popped up again.
Um, luckily, he's a wet blanketand he fell into line really
easily.
He was like, of course, Matilda,of course, my favorite Matilda,
(29:10):
and to be fair, she did promisehim that she would consult him
in all major matters concerningthe kingdom.
So she kind of gave him a littlebit of a little bit of a fish.
Yeah.
So Henry the Bishop, he pulledsome strings, and then she was
accepted, as Lady of England andNormandy, on the 7th of April in
(29:31):
Winchester.
And in history, she is oftenknown as the Lady of the
English.
That was what she became.
Right.
Yeah.
Which is the reason, nottechnically.
So, she's got the support ofHenry.
She has not got the support ofthe Arbiters of Canterbury.
(29:51):
Stephen weirdly told hisfollowers, it must've been a
horrible dungeon.
He was like, yeah, yeah, no,it's fine.
I think you should submit toMatilda.
I think this is, this is over.
So it's all sounding quitepositive.
And whilst all this was goingthrough.
because she wants to do itproperly.
She actually is reigning ofEngland, but she hasn't got the
title yet.
So she's doing it in practicalways.
(30:13):
She was allowed in London.
So she got through that hurdle.
So, you know, she practicallywas queen, but in terms of the
coronation, that.
Never happened So the reasonthat never happened was because
she could not get enough supportbasically.
So the English nobles, despiteshe's got this huge power base
in the West of England becausethey're the ones that fought
(30:33):
with her, but the nobles who,they just couldn't decide.
They kind of flip flop.
they said for a little bit,yeah, we, we got your back
Matilda, but a short time afterthey actually changed their mind
and they re declared theirallegiance to Stephen.
So she could not get enoughpublic opinion around that.
These nobles and barons justsound like self serving little
(30:55):
arseholes.
I've put in my notes, they'reflip flops.
Flip flops, yeah.
They're flip flops.
Annoying the Pope through hissupport behind Stephen II, which
was a major problem.
Matilda's kind of running theshow.
She's kind of lady in waiting,queen in waiting.
And whilst that was going on,she wasn't really doing herself
any favours, allegedly.
So, and this is the problem withwomen in power, her personality
(31:20):
was not liked.
She was reported to be arrogant.
She was reported to beunwomanly.
That was a problem.
Yeah.
One of the chroniclers, whichare journalists at the time,
wrote that she had assumed anair of extreme haughtiness, and
she did not have gentle andgraceful manners.
(31:43):
She was reported, that shetreated allies with a coldness.
She's just Queen of England,mate.
Like, she's just, isn't it?
Queen of England, Empress of theRoman Empire.
You just don't like a woman inpower, right?
No, if a man does it, then he'sconfident and charismatic and
decisive.
(32:04):
If a woman does it, then she'suptight and, you know, You have
hit the nail on the head.
she did do some stuff that wouldput people at the wrong way, so
she demanded taxes of heralready exhausted, citizenship
because they've been throughthis horrific war.
And she also lacks, diplomacy.
(32:24):
I think that's perceiveddiplomacy again.
She probably was listening toyou.
She just didn't agree with youin very different things.
And she was happy to tell youthat.
So she makes her way toWestminster.
It's her coronation day.
She's meant to be crowned inlate June, but she was never,
ever declared queen.
(32:45):
What happened was reallyinterestingly.
So, Stephen's in prison,shackled up.
His wife, still shackled.
His wife, Queen Matilda ismissing him.
She's like, I'd really like myhusband back actually.
It's been a while.
So she actually.
(33:06):
Rallied the troops, got hersoldiers and they were just
across the river Thames fromEmpress Matilda getting
coronated.
What they did was they attackedwhen the coronation was meant to
be happening.
So they attacked and they forcedMatilda out and made her retreat
to Oxford and then eventuallyGloucester.
(33:29):
Queen Matilda attacks EmpressMatilda.
And then because of this, allthose noblemen and barons we
were talking about before, theyflip flopped back and they were
like, oh yeah, actually you'reright, it should be King
Stephen.
So they're just supportingwhatever happens.
Oh my god.
I know.
They would really do my head in.
(33:50):
They've just got no backbone.
They've just got no backbonewhatsoever.
They're just, they're justtrying to pace the game.
Peace.
That's all they're trying to do,isn't it?
That's their main goal.
Probably out of their own selfinterest.
One of the people who flipflopped back was Henry the
Bishop, right?
So he was all, he was the onewho helped organize this
fricking coronation and he'sflip flopped back.
So what, Empress Matilda does isshe attacks his castle in late
(34:14):
July.
She's like, I'm not having that.
But because he had QueenMatilda's support.
So his brother and his brother'swife support, they hit back and
they forced Empress Matilda toretreat.
what then happened is that theytook Robert.
So, you know, her ally, Roberthas been from the beginning,
Earl of Gloucester.
(34:36):
That's it.
This is a big blow to Matilda.
He's been with her through thickand thin.
He was the one that helped her,come across Normandy in the
first place.
So the only way to get Robertback, we Matilda said, so swap
in Robert for Steven.
So you've got your prisoner now.
I've got my prisoner now.
I want yours.
You want mine.
That's a prisoner swap.
(34:56):
Do it on a bridge.
Prisoner swap.
Yeah.
That's what happens.
So King Stephen is thenreleased.
and he actually went back topower.
So he became king again on the1st of November, 1141.
While Stephen was released andin power, the war itself
continued.
So Matilda did not give up.
I know.
(35:17):
for several years with bothsides enabled to initiate a
significant defeats against oneanother.
So they're quite evenly matched.
Matilda was banished fromWestminster.
She was forced out to Oxford andGloucester where she regrouped.
Oxford actually had really goodcity walls and it had rivers
protecting it so she felt quitesafe.
What she ended up doing wassending her brother Robert,
(35:39):
who's been in prison, she senthim to France and said go and
get Geoffrey.
Geoffrey's been doing a crackingjob in Northern India, I need
him back over here.
This shit just got real, nowthat Geoffrey's getting
involved.
We were a bit harsh on Geoffreyin the end, but he could be the
saviour, we don't know.
Oh my god.
Maybe, maybe.
(36:00):
Stephen launched a surpriseattack on Matilda and her small
army, leading many to retreat tothe castle where he had actually
laid siege there for threemonths.
So, um, He forced her into thiscastle knowing he owned that
castle and he knew once she wasin there, he would be able to
force her out.
(36:21):
he did, he captured her.
So Matilda is now a prisoner.
this is in 1142.
This goes on for, I think thesiege happens in September.
And then she's kept prisoner fora little while.
It's December and it's snowy.
So their snow is not our snow.
Snow nearly a thousand years agois very different to snow today.
(36:42):
It was thick.
They had not had global warmingand they didn't have even the
equipment.
That we had today, you know,like there's no cozy park, park,
a jacket and a scarf.
Um, so they didn't have all thatasphalt on the road to keep the
sun's warmth in and snow for youor four vehicles.
(37:02):
You know what?
I don't think they did.
I don't think they have.
but that doesn't stop Matilda.
She makes this escape a coupleof nights and her managed to
sneak out the building.
there's a couple of.
Stories about how they did it.
One thinks they exited throughthe posting gate.
Other people think that she waslowered down the walls of the
castle with a rope.
Either way, quite dramatic.
(37:24):
And then she had to walk acrossthe Thames, which had frozen
over, which is very cool.
And then they travel toAbingdon.
From there, she made her way toher ally, a guy called Brian,
completely Um, prime fit count,and then she went to Wilshire
where she set up base, in theBishop of Salisbury's Castle,
(37:46):
according to historian Marjorieship, because Matilda knew She
couldn't beat Stephen, butStephen couldn't beat her.
They'd become on this likestalemate.
Matilda made a really cleverplay and like changed tactic
completely and she's like, okay,well Rather than securing
England for myself because theyseem to have a problem with me
(38:07):
How about I start securing itfor my son Henry?
So by this time Henry's growingup.
He's not a toddler anymore PoorHenry's having quite a traumatic
childhood he's like a kidbetween divorced parents.
So like he spends a lot of timein Normandy Yeah, so he spends a
weekend in Normandy, pops backto Gloucester, goes to Oxford,
(38:28):
so he's traveling about, blesshim.
Matilda started including Henryin all her royal charters and
her paperwork and things.
So she was making serious plays.
she stayed in England until1148, issuing decrees and
minting queenage while theanarchy continued.
but she wasn't able to fullyexercise her royal power over
(38:49):
the country, obviously,Unfortunately in 1147, this is
like another catalyst forMatilda's change in thinking is
that her brother Robert, who'sbeen amazing, he died in 1147.
Mm-hmm on top of everythingelse, the poet was demanding
that she vacate the Salisburycastle.
The pope was, even though it wasthe bishop's castle, the Pope
was like, you can't stay hereanymore.
(39:09):
Yeah.
But because Henry's now oldenough to fight for his right
and fight for something that ispotentially his, she kind of
passes that off to Henry.
She, like, enlists him to, youcarry on the good fight.
So Matilda at this point returnsto Normandy to see her family
that she hasn't seen in nearly adecade.
(39:30):
And it's at this point she stopsusing the title Lady of the
English.
Her personal fight for thethrone is over.
She stays in mainland Europe forthe rest of her life, helping
her husband and son, becauselet's be honest, they still own
land, manage their businesses.
And she also acts on theirbehalf when they're absent,
(39:50):
offers advice.
She kind of becomes aconsultant, I guess.
so she passes the baton, toHenry.
Henry marries up, he's a cleversausage.
He marries Eleanor of Aquitaineand she is the ex wife of the
King of France and an heiress.
(40:11):
So he kind of marries intomoney, which is great, gives him
material and ways to invadeEngland, which he eventually
does in 1153.
King Stephen also has a son.
So it's kind of like the battlespassed down a generation.
(40:31):
So he also has a son eustace, EU S T A C E.
So King Stephen's making plansfor his son to become king, but
this is really sad, is thatEstes dies.
So in the Horrible History Song,you never hear King Estes
because it becomes king.
Henry.
So what happens is they make atruce, Matilda and Stephen make
(40:55):
a truce and agree that Stephenwill be king for the rest of his
life, then it will pass on toHenry.
And that's what happened.
Matilda will sort of leave himin peace until that happens.
So Stephen can just do histhing.
Yeah.
But when the time comes, Yep,and that time did happen, and,
it all came good, empressMatilda lived out her days in
(41:18):
Normandy.
She died in 1167 at the age of65, and she's buried in front of
the High Altar in the Abbey ofBeck.
So she came good in the end.
She was clever about how she didit, but she managed to get the
succession of the throne backinto the family line where it
(41:39):
should have been.
So her family lived on, and Isuppose it's a lesson in knowing
when you're, maybe not even whenyou're beat, but when, it seemed
a fruitless endeavour.
Just this war would have trudgedon and on and on.
And obviously there was no oneelse there.
These barons and bishops justflip flopping between, no one
else was going to make adecisive decision.
It seemed like it sort of neededthat agreement between the two
(42:00):
of them.
Yeah, and she did it.
And I suppose Stephen kept hispower.
Yeah, Stephen interestingly hadanother son, William, but for an
unknown reason he wasn'tconsidered for, being heir.
I couldn't find much more onthat, so that's why we have King
Henry the second.
Henry the second.
(42:21):
So it's sort of Henry the first,Stephen, Matilda, bracket.
And Henry the second being Henrythe first's grandson.
That's it.
So it did, it did flow.
It's just that Stephen replacedMatilda, just with a right old
mess in the middle.
Yeah.
(42:42):
That's it.
Good.
I'm pleased you've got thatbecause it was a really hard
story to convey.
in conclusion, I've written herethat I think gender played a
huge part in her story.
There has been some arguments byhistorians that it, It didn't
because of that massive showdownwhere Stephen's wife was like,
give my husband back and shelike, stormed the cryonation.
And they were like, well, don'tsay it's because she's a woman,
(43:04):
because she also fought a woman,but I think that double standard
part before the coronation of,oh, she's arrogant, you wouldn't
say that, you wouldn't say thatif that was a man.
Based on everything I've learnedin the last hour, I'm calling
bullshit on that.
Yeah.
It sounds like if she was a, ifshe was a man, there wouldn't
have been any question in thefirst place.
She would have just taken thethrone from her father.
(43:25):
That would have been that, yeah.
And then Stephen wouldn't haveconsidered coming along and
trying to usurp the throne.
I think she's got leadership.
She controlled that entire armyfor so long.
She built the allies.
Also she was relentless.
She managed to get what shewanted in the end, she just went
about it a different way.
Incredibly determined.
And I mean, she could, it soundslike, Empress of the Roman
(43:47):
Empire, you got Geoffrey as yourhusband, you're living in
Normandy, she could have justLet it go.
Oh, well, that's all right then.
But it seems that a slight senseof unfairness which crops up in
so many of these stories.
And injustice, yeah.
And injustice, yeah.
And just wasn't standing for it.
I love that she went back toattack Stephen's brother.
(44:13):
I loved it.
I thought it was just reallyexciting and it was, yeah, it
was fun, talking about someonefrom, because this is way
further back in history thananyone we've discussed so far.
It's so out of my comfort zonetalking about this kind of
stuff.
Yeah.
Especially when they're allcalled Henry.
I know, I was like, how do Imake this into a story where
they're actual people you careabout and they've got their own
personalities So yeah.
(44:34):
Now I'm pleased you enjoyed it.
Thank you.
It means a lot.
Yeah.
Nice one.
It was really good.
Well, thank you, Vicky.
Yeah, nice distraction to thewedding.
Yeah.
I don't want any of this familydrama.
No, I really enjoyed that.
Amazing.
And we hope you enjoyed it too.
(44:55):
Thank you so much for listening.
Um, if you have any suggestionsof women you want us to cover
please let us know atshechangedhistory at gmail.
com.
If you're enjoying it, let usknow.
rate, review and subscribe, wehope you have a really
wonderful, restful, festiveperiod, if you celebrate or if
you don't.
audio1018601680 (45:13):
Brilliant.
Okay.
Thanks folks.
See you next time.
Thank you.
Bye
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