February 11, 2025 • 37 mins
Elizabeth Garrett Anderson: Pioneering Doctor and Women's Rights Advocate
Got a story? Emailed shechangedhistory@gmail.com
In this episode, we delve into the life and achievements of Elizabeth Garrett Anderson, the first woman to qualify as a doctor in the UK. Despite the societal and institutional barriers of the Victorian era, Anderson's determination and intellect allowed her to pave the way for women in medicine. She established the New Hospital for Women and played a crucial role in the women's suffrage movement. Her story exemplifies resilience, challenging the status quo, and the importance of providing opportunities. Join us as we explore her lasting legacy in both the medical profession and women's rights.
Previous episodes we talk about here: Sarojini Naidu
00:00 Excitement for the Counter Strike Tournament
00:34 Welcome to the Velour Studio
01:19 Introducing Elizabeth Garrett Anderson
02:40 Early Life and Education
03:48 Challenges in Victorian Medicine
08:40 Breaking Barriers in Medical Education
13:38 Founding the Dispensary and Hospital
17:53 Challenges of Establishing a Women's Hospital
18:39 Combining Skills for Social Reform
20:24 Training the Next Generation of Female Doctors
20:50 Confronting Sexism in Medicine
24:42 Advocacy for Women's Rights and Suffrage
30:54 Legacy and Continued Influence
34:01 Modern Reflections and Personal Insights
37:00 Conclusion and Call to Action
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
audio1966731641 (00:08):
I love that they're off to a Counter Strike
tournament.
Is that what it is?
Nice.
Yeah, Katowice is one of the bigtournaments of the year.
I watch it on YouTube.
Do you?
I'm quite jealous.
You're so jealous.
Yeah.
They're actually there.
Yeah, look at them.
I've never seen Paul so giddy.
He's in proper geek territorythere.
(00:30):
yeah.
Shall we go?
Yeah, let's go.
Hi, Simon.
Hi, Vicky.
How you doing?
How are you?
I'm good, how are you?
I got in first, yeah.
to say, you look very opulent inyour backhand.
as do you.
Welcome to our new Velourstudio.
This is who we are.
(00:50):
It's very exciting.
That's a whiff of the sort ofscholarly, isn't it?
We try, I think we're like DietCoke scholars.
Diet Coke scholars, I was goingto say Coke Zero, but yeah.
Yeah, yeah, you're right, CokeZero scholars.
Possibly the Pepsi Max.
We have a little bit of an airabout it, but you know, deep
down we just love a gossip, andthat's what we're doing.
(01:12):
Yeah, that's it.
One day we'll get smokingjackets in these exact fabrics.
Yes, please, yeah, it'd begreat.
So welcome to She ChangedHistory.
Hello.
Simon's got a story for ustoday.
Yeah, I sure have.
I have a story for you about alady called Elizabeth Garrett
Anderson.
(01:32):
Tipple barrel.
Elizabeth Garrett Anderson'slife was one of defiance against
societal norms and tirelessdedication to breaking down
barriers for women in medicineand beyond.
As the first woman to qualify asa doctor in the United Kingdom,
her accomplishments represent apivotal moment in the history of
both the medical profession andthe broader women's rights
(01:53):
movement.
Her career would go on toinfluence generations of women
striving for equality inprofessions and society.
Today we explore the lastinglegacy of Elizabeth Garrett
Anderson through her role asboth a pioneering physician and
a trailblazer for women'srights.
Have a number of sources,articles from the Royal College
of Physicians, A BBC historyarticle, but yet more from the
(02:15):
Women's History Network.
Whoop, whoop, um, something fromthe Ette Fellowship and a little
bit of bonus reading, onhysterical Victorian women.
Well, yeah, are we referencingthat?
Yes, please.
Not hysterical women, justspecialised in Victoria.
They are famously the mosthysterical, yeah.
(02:36):
Great, great, love, love, love,love.
Elizabeth, was born inWhitechapel in London.
Yeah.
On June the 9th, 1836.
Two quite prosperous families.
British, yeah.
Prosperous family, with a strongemphasis on education.
Her father, Newson Garrett, wasa successful businessman.
(02:57):
And her mother, Louisa Garrett,encouraged her children to be
intellectually ambitious.
Her early life was, as was thecase in Victorian times, not
without its challenges.
with sort of the expectation ofconformity to the traditional
roles, so primarily focused ondomesticity and marriage.
(03:17):
Okay.
So she's like higher society.
Higher society, yeah.
Not royalty, but they're doingalright for themselves.
Okay, understood.
And this intellectual ambitionthat her mother instilled in
her.
meant that she had aspirationsbeyond just marriage and child
(03:39):
care.
She harboured a deep interest inthe sciences and was drawn to
the study of medicine from anearly age.
So we're in Victorian times, andit's a funny time for medicine
because we're, it's not quitethe era of, leeches and just
totally quack theories, althoughI'm sure many of them are still
(04:01):
around, and You've got allthese, haughty male doctors and
a sort of pervasive view ofwomen and women's health care at
the time, It was just a vastunknown, I imagine.
The problem is, like, when theycouldn't diagnose something, in
women, when they thoughtsomething was up, but they
(04:22):
didn't have a diagnosis for it,they just used the catch all
term of hysteria.
Yeah.
So, at the time, we had,hysterical women and, I think
one of the early theories thatit was, because of a lack of
sex.
They were sort of sexuallyfrustrated.
Um, so they had all of these.
They were not.
I can assure you they, they werenot sexually frustrated.
They were doing fine.
(04:44):
They were doing fine.
Well they were if they went tothe doctor's surgery.
Because that's the reason forthe invention of the vibrator.
First the mechanical clockworkone and then electricity came
along.
And apparently about a quarterof women were diagnosed as being
hysterical.
A quarter.
A quarter, yeah, in VictorianEngland, so it was a widely
(05:06):
done, but it was just it waspart of this idea that women
can't control their emotions,they can't focus or concentrate
on things, they can't betrusted, they're just largely
troublemakers who are controlledby their womb, rather than just
like being people who can dostuff.
So did Elizabeth not believe inhysteria then?
(05:26):
Is that the idea that she wantedto dig into that hysteria a bit
more?
She was just dissatisfied.
I mean, a quarter of women beingdiagnosed with hysteria, that's
not an answer.
That's not a thing.
It was such a bizarre diagnosis,because it's like anything that
was wrong, women that didn't fitinto an existing diagnosis would
just get labelled as hysteria.
(05:47):
Oh, I see, so it's like adefault label.
That was the default, yeah.
And then the sort of researchand the efforts and the thinking
of the time went into trying toexplain hysteria, not trying to
figure out what might actuallybe wrong with these people.
Yeah.
If anything, so like SigmundFreud came along and suggested
quite a lot of things, but hewas still just thinking about
(06:09):
the idea of hysteria rather thanactual underlying medical
conditions.
And I wish there was more of adifference today, but I just
think about particularly likediagnosis of endometriosis.
And where that gets written offas, Oh, you're just
exaggerating.
Oh, you know, toughen up.
(06:30):
But, you know, things graduallychange.
I was going to bring up,Nagamanchetti's new book, which
Oh yeah, it's out in May, isn'tit?
Yeah, which is my understandingthat it's about her basically
going through what you justsaid.
No, I am in a lot of pain.
No, I'm not lying.
Yeah.
Please believe me.
(06:50):
And all the different layers toactually getting a full on
diagnosis and actually, youknow, it's.
It seems to be that she'stransforming the regulation
around that still today.
Like, it's like, not the newhysteria, that's not fair, but
it's got its own challenges,hasn't it, Endo?
It's got its own, it's its ownballpark.
Um, so yeah, I can't wait forthat to come out.
(07:13):
that's incredible.
Picture you've sent me lookslike Elizabeth is reading 25
percent of women are diagnosedwith hysteria.
And that's her YouTube reaction.
I feel like that's what's in thenotebook, that statistic.
I'd love to see what's on thatpage.
(07:34):
Yeah, for sure.
Right, And the prevailingsocietal norm at the time just
dictated that women were unfitfor the medical profession.
it was thought that they lackedthe intellectual rigour or, the
emotional temperament requiredfor medical practice.
(07:54):
Sorry, say that again, the what,Picard?
The intellectual rigour.
Oh, intellectual rigor.
So, okay, because they won'tteach them.
Yeah, so they won't teach them.
So you're not covering it up.
And what was the other one?
The emotional temperament.
Yeah.
So they were just too volatileto be, to be considered a
trustworthy medicalpractitioner.
(08:18):
Yeah.
Because a man's never lost histemper.
I love that.
You're right.
You're right.
I know.
Rock steady man, you know.
But this put up an obstacle forsomeone, such as Elizabeth who
wanted to study medicine,because she wasn't allowed.
(08:40):
She was determined to become adoctor.
Okay.
And she was intellectuallycapable, capable.
Absolutely.
She had the capability, thedetermination to do it, the
desire to do it.
But she wasn't allowed into anyof the traditional medical
schools.
They were male only, places.
Okay.
So it was a lot of issues aroundthis time and up until then of,
(09:03):
women not being allowed to studyfor arbitrary reasons.
Fortunately she was from afamily who could afford private
education for her.
Great.
So she was tutored by her fatherand other private tutors.
They cultivated her interest ina number of subjects,
specifically the sciences.
(09:24):
She wanted to go this medicalroute.
And then in 1858, she approachedthe prestigious Society of
Apothecaries.
Oh.
Wanted to go there to study.
Yeah, is that still a thingtoday?
Oh, I didn't actually look,yeah.
I want to be part of that.
(09:44):
Let me in.
It's probably just called thePharmacist Union these days.
It's called Worshipful Societyof Apothecaries, livery company
for pharmacists and physiciansin the city of London.
Oh, it looks beautiful.
Look at that building.
Stunner.
I'm still in London, That'samazing.
Nice.
(10:05):
I love the word apothecary.
It's so good, isn't it?
Yeah, and just the images thatit conjures up.
That's it.
Yeah.
Rows and rows of bottles andtinctures and these things and
the old sort of apothecaryfurniture as well.
All the little storage.
You know, so very much the Ikeaof their time in terms of
organization.
(10:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
They knew they were ontosomething.
They were onto a billion dollarbrand and they didn't, they
didn't know.
So she wasn't allowed to study,at the society, but she She,
underwent, training, studyingmedicine privately with the help
of doctors.
There's a renowned physician andsurgeon, Dr.
William Alexander, who taughther.
(10:46):
And a couple of years later, sheapplied to the Society of
Apothecaries to take herqualifying exams.
Yeah.
She was rejected, again.
Rejected because of her gender.
Yeah.
Just saying that women weren'teligible to enter the medical
profession.
Yeah.
So it's like a blanket banacross all schools.
(11:09):
Blanket ban.
Institutions, yeah.
yeah, she was rejected.
But eventually.
She managed to, with the help offriends in high places and
allies around her, she managedto arrive at a private medical
school, the Middlesex HospitalMedical School in London.
So it was making it one of thefirst institutions to allow
(11:31):
women, a woman.
to study medicine.
She faced a lot of opposition,in her time at the school.
but her academic brilliance anddetermination really prevailed.
And studying medicine is not ashort term thing.
It's not like an hour a week inevening school.
This takes years and years.
(11:52):
And she would have faced theopposition there from tutors and
other students alike.
But she was still allowed in.
But she was allowed in.
Yeah, so someone must have hadher back.
And I think this is so importantwith all our stories is that you
just need someone to givesomeone a chance.
And if you're in a positionright now where you're able to
give someone a chance who maybeisn't traditionally meant to be
(12:16):
for that opportunity or meant togo down that path, give them,
just give them an inch.
And, yeah, what they can achieveoff the bat, because I don't
know this story, but I imagineshe's going to go and achieve
something, is, you know, it'stotally worth it.
I don't know if this is aBritish thing or whatever, but
just always give the underdog,always give someone who, you
(12:38):
know, they've got enoughhurdles.
Be nice, be the one to give achance.
Because that underpins so manyof our stories.
There was a supportive dad,there was a supportive doctor,
someone, you know, let someoneon a train and they could go off
and do something amazing, like,it's always just someone bending
the rules ever so slightly.
Will just lead to amazing thingseven if they're not the people
(12:59):
who quote unquote changedhistory, you know Yes, there you
go soapbox done.
Thank you.
Love it as you were Love it Soin 1865 she passed, her exams
and gained a certificate thatallowed her to become a doctor
because the exams I think had togo through at the time had to go
through this society ofapothecaries Yeah So she got her
(13:22):
certificate, enabled her tobecome a doctor, and society
immediately changed its rules toprevent other women doing the
same thing.
Studying privately and thentaking the exams.
Because of all that terriblehealthcare she was giving
immediately.
Oh, just awful.
Yeah, yeah.
Didn't even give her a chance.
In 1866 she established adispensary for women in London.
(13:49):
So a dispensary is in like apharmacy?
A pharmacy, yeah.
Oh wow! Okay, for women.
for women.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
So specializing in women'shealth is like, we should have
those today because I heardsomething and I, obviously it
was just through Instagram.
So I don't know like how true itis, but we know just as much
(14:11):
about the woman's body and thewoman's reproductive system as
the Tudors did about brains.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
And I'm not gonna lie, theTudors didn't know that much.
They weren't that great at thewhole brain, brain surgery
thing, were they?
No, they hadn't got it down.
(14:32):
I don't think they even had MRIscanners back then.
That just shows how little weknow about, and you've spoken
about this before haven't youwith HG and things like that,
but yeah, it's fascinating howlittle we know.
So the fact that she was alreadyspecialising in 1866, yeah.
Yeah, she had this realcommitment to, like, I mean it
(14:54):
stemmed from her interest in thesciences and she thought, okay,
I want to do medicine, but thenthis, And I'm speculating now,
but I would speculate that thebarriers that she came up
against, and at the time, justthe prevalence of this diagnosis
of hysteria, is not, it's not asatisfactory answer.
and if you were hysterical andrich, then you would get
(15:15):
sexually assaulted by thedoctor, and if you were
hysterical and poor, you wouldget sent off to a mental asylum.
And like, it's not really anadequate answer.
I think we can do bettersociety.
I think we can do better, yeah.
So she had this real commitmentto offering women access to
medical care, both as patients,but also as practitioners.
(15:37):
she was qualified, but wasn'treally recognised because She
was a woman.
So yeah, opened up her owndispensary in 1866.
Yep.
And was made a visitingphysician at something called
the East London Hospital.
She gained a medical degree fromthe University of Paris.
(15:59):
Oh.
So she, this all sounds likeshe's got so much money to fund
these things, because funding apharmacy, a dispensary, not
cheap, going to Paris, notcheap.
Not cheap.
Yeah.
So it sounds like she's got themeans to make waves.
This is, yeah, one of thestories of someone capitalizing
on their privilege to improvethings for everything else,
(16:21):
everyone else.
So she got a medical degree fromthe University of Paris, but the
British Medical Register refusedto recognise her qualification.
So she sort of tried a fewdifferent routes to entry now.
Mm hmm, yeah.
And generally been shot down,but didn't let that stop her.
She, in 1872, founded the newhospital for women new hospital
(16:48):
for women love all those words.
Okay.
What does that mean?
It very much does what it saysUh on the sign above the door.
It was a new hospital and it wasspecifically for women Okay, it
has since been renamed.
It's now known as the elizabethgarrett anderson hospital Sexy
name Right.
(17:09):
Is that in london?
and it's primary purpose thatshe set it up for was advancing
women's health care.
It was one of the firstinstitutions in the UK dedicated
to providing medical care forwomen, by women.
Addressing the specific andparticular health needs of women
and children.
(17:30):
she led the hospital.
and although she wasn't acceptedwith her medical degree from
Paris and having passed theexams and got her certificate
that they then changed the ruleson, etc.
She, this was still a sort of atrailblazer moment of proving
that actually a woman could doit and she was setting up the
dispensary and she set up thehospital.
(17:50):
It's a killer move, isn't it?
It's a killer.
So many thoughts.
So you'd have to get thebuilding, set up the building,
publicize it, let people knowthat it's there, get people in a
position, get women into aposition where, they were
allowed to go.
So you're not just convincingwomen at this point, are you
convincing their, finances andyou're convincing, them that
(18:15):
it's safe on top of everythingelse, So much around the
Victorian health care is notsafe.
Yeah.
And, and so she's doing, she'sleading all those different
rivers.
Yeah, yeah against the societalbackdrop where there would still
have been a lot of opposition toeven the concept of it Yeah,
things don't change thatquickly.
(18:37):
So she was battling againstthat.
It's amazing all the time And itreally showcased her ability to
combine She's got combining boththe intellectual both her
medical expertise and thisdetermination for social reform
Yes.
Together in one large project.
Yeah.
Which is not easy.
No.
Like, that's not easy today, letalone back then.
(19:00):
It's something that comes upwith so many of our, subjects
that, like a lot of people haveskill in a particular area, but
the ones that we discuss.
The women that we discuss whoseem to have the biggest impact
and make the most change areable to combine these maybe
slightly disparate soundingskills of both being
(19:21):
intellectually rigorous andhaving this drive and
determination and almost sort ofpolitical skill.
to maneuver around theleadership at the time.
Or they pull on people who havethat.
So like, with the champagnestory with Nicole, she was
pulling on people who hadexpertise in other fields.
(19:42):
And I think being able toinfluence So many different
people, just like with,Sarojini, she was being at the
table, arguing with so manydifferent standpoints about we
need independence.
And I think there's something aswell about having, if you have a
determination and a passion fora cause, if that's apparent, it
(20:05):
does seem to draw people in.
It draws people to you and theysort of want to, they get caught
up in it and they want to beinvolved in this.
Like this podcast.
In this change, like thispodcast.
Like this podcast, come along,come along for the ride.
Let's put ourselves up there.
We just like this.
So the new hospital for women,also became a key institution
(20:28):
for training up other femaledoctors.
So it was now somewhere thatPassing that book, yeah.
Yeah, they had establishedsomewhere where actually if you
had done your, the academic sideof it, got your certificate,
taken your exams, they were thenwelcoming to you to do your
Like, on the job training,that's such a big part of it.
(20:48):
So she knew it was sexism backthen.
Oh, she 100 percent knew it.
Yeah.
You don't ever see that wordlike in articles or in like, the
world was sexist.
You never see that.
Like it would be cool to see itin a letter or something, like
This is so freaking sexist.
I'm gonna do this.
Yeah But they knew they didn'tknow just call it out call it
(21:12):
for what it is It's just, it isblatant, isn't it?
I think that's what shocks me inall these things.
It's, it's not undercurrent, itis.
In your face, Plainton.
You can't be a doctor.
Purely because you're a woman.
Yeah, for sure.
she wasn't necessarily thatfamous at the time.
I mean, I think she started offpretty wealthy and that
(21:35):
continued, but she wasn't in itfor the fame of it.
Her drive was to make adifference.
She was focused on improving thelives of women, both through the
practice of medicine, andimproving that for them, and
also the advancements of women'srights, both in the medical
community and later in societyin general.
This way that she integratedwomen into the medical
(21:57):
profession was then a model forfuture generations of doctors
who would continue to challengethis institutionalized
discrimination.
In medicine, and it's somethingthat still seems to, I can't say
I read a great deal about themedical profession.
Yeah.
I just think of like, femalesurgeons and the sexism that's
(22:20):
still around those and thebarriers that there are for
women getting involved in that.
There were some stories a fewmonths ago about,, the sexism,
misogyny.
Inappropriate behavior ofsurgeons towards female members
of staff in theatre that stillgoes on today.
Um, there's that picture acouple of years ago.
(22:41):
I think there was, I think therewas actual uproar about it.
of a female surgeon who had tocontinue with the surgery.
pull herself away from thesurgery but she started her
period.
So the picture was of her havinga period in her scrubs and then
there was some massive uproarabout that and it's just like
(23:01):
the general seeming lack ofaccommodation for women in
medicine and in particular areasthat still exists and like you
say surgeon it's thatunconscious bias I suspect
that's still in there with a lotof.
There's that test that theyoften say in, team building
things or training days of, asurgeon and his son are driving
(23:24):
in a car and there's a carcrash.
Yeah, and then the son goes tothe hospital and the surgeon
says, I can't operate on him,he's my son.
Explain.
I'm like the surgeon's his mum.
But you immediately think, oh,he's gay.
Or something, yeah.
He's incestuous, his grandfatheris, his dad.
Yeah, it must be.
Can't possibly be a woman.
(23:45):
Yeah, and I still think, I thinkthat starts from a really young
level though, because like, assoon as you said women in
medicine just then, my firstthought that flashed in my mind
was, Florence Nightingale.
And I got um, images of Mrs Cobbwho was our primary school
teacher teaching us aboutFlorence Nightingale, because
that's what we were taught.
And actually, It's so,internalized.
(24:07):
Yeah.
That thought process.
So,, and that's me and we dothis podcast, which is purely
about highlighting women in maledominated fields.
Um, yeah.
If it's internalised for you,then frankly, the rest of us are
screwed.
Well, you'd think so, wouldn'tyou?
So yeah, I kind of, I love it.
I love that this has been goingon forever, and that she passed
(24:29):
that baton on, like she waslike, well, come and train with
me.
I'll teach you.
That spread of knowledge is sopowerful.
I will give you this step up,this helping hand, this
opportunity.
Love it.
She wasn't only a physician, um,sort of in keeping with her work
in the medical field, she was avocal advocate for women's
(24:50):
rights, particularly in relationto women's suffrage.
Yep, makes sense.
Advocate.
advocacy for the right to voteclosely tied to her belief that
women should have equal accessto opportunities in all spheres
of society.
It's like she knew what hervalues were and she stood by
them throughout all the time.
Stood by them, acted on them,vocalised them, yeah, and showed
(25:11):
some consistency.
Consistently, yeah.
And she wasn't having theseopinions for, they weren't like
a power play because she wantedto be in charge of something,
she just, Thought that was theright thing, and she got on with
it.
Um, yeah, there's equalopportunities in all spheres of
society, including education,employment, and political
participation.
Nice.
(25:31):
Anderson's involvement in thesuffrage movement came at a time
where women were still surprise,largely excluded from political
life and were consideredincapable of contributing to the
democratic process.
Presumably for the same reasonthey were incapable of being
doctors or incapable of beingscientists, etc.
Her support for the women'spolitical rights led to her
(25:54):
active participation in varioussuffrage organizations.
So she worked closely with theWomen's Social and Political
Union.
This was founded by EmmelinePankhurst.
Yeah.
Which, as an organization wasknown for its more militant
tactics, Anderson's approach wasmore moderate.
So she was careful not toalienate those who were sort of
(26:16):
hesitant to embrace these moreradical aspects of the suffrage
movement.
Okay.
Which you see these days withthe, was it the Stop Oil, what's
that organisation called?
Yeah, yeah, just Stop Oil.
So, we're saying that she wasless radical, she was less in
your face after.
She was less radical.
Okay.
Yeah.
(26:37):
Is that, what did she dospeeches and demonstrations or?
Speeches, civic engagements.
just drawing attention to it ina non shouting, non blocking the
roads and disruptive way.
Just making arguments in favourof it.
But I mean, she was also stillrunning the hospital.
(27:00):
She was a busy bee, to behonest.
She was a busy bee.
She was saving people's lives.
she not only contributed to thisbroader suffrage movement, but
raised awareness of thisinterconnectedness of women's
health, education and politicalrights.
I really like this.
Yeah, it's like, a rising tide,everyone, everything rises with
(27:24):
it And by having more politicalrights, you then get more
political involvement, you getmore of a say, you get more,
lobbying on your behalf for whatyou need, which then improves
the other services, whichimproves your access to things,
which then just, so everythingrises together.
That makes me really happy.
And she must have learnt that.
From somewhere, I wonder whatinfluenced her and what, apart
(27:47):
from her dad, because her dadsounded like he was really
active in her tuition but shemust have pieced together
society at some form, or maybeit was just as simple as, I've
been excluded from this, this,this, this, I want this, this,
this, this, and actually if Ihad all these things, I would,
be ten times more productive,Despite her effort and ability,
(28:10):
the exclusion from it just forbeing a woman.
Yeah.
And also, you know, first handexperience of women's health,
because she's a woman.
Yes.
And seeing how, how poor it allis and realising that the only
way to get improvement is for isto be at the table.
She must have had so muchinfluence, I know I've said it
before, but she must have hadsome real vigor behind her to
(28:33):
get people to listen.
And money, obviously, but toget, because these are actions
it's not passive, yeah.
Yeah, As life progressed, shemarried James Anderson and was
mother to two daughters, so herinvolvement in a medical
practice did slow down.
She was then a wife and motheras well.
(28:56):
And although her sort ofability, her time available to
be involved in the medicalpractice diminished, she was
still, she remained asdetermined and committed to
medical rights, women's rights.
medical reform.
She remained active in thesewomen's organizations,
continuing to work for thebetterment of women's position
(29:18):
in society, all the way throughto her retirement then in 1902,
where she retired toOlderborough.
on the Suffolk coast.
So she was 66 at the time ofretirement.
And what's a sensible thing todo when you retire to a small
(29:40):
town on the Suffolk coast?
Well, you spend six yearsbuilding up your reputation.
And in 1908, she became thetown's mayor.
Yes.
And she was, uh, I like the ideathat she's just causing havoc in
this small Suffolk town, likepure havoc.
Imagine it as a really sleepylittle parish.
(30:01):
Yeah.
From London, from setting up abrand new hospital in London,
she just storms this littleparish.
I love it.
What the hell are you guysplaying at?
Okay, someone's got to takecontrol here.
But that made her the first everfemale mayor in England.
Oh, wow.
She was the first female doctor.
(30:22):
The first of many.
Wow, that's amazing.
I didn't know that.
That's very cool.
I wouldn't have even thoughtabout it.
Like, the first mare.
Yeah.
And when was that?
Did you say 1902?
1908 she became mayor.
Oh, because six years, yeah.
1908.
Hey! Which is quite a politicalposition in and of itself, isn't
(30:45):
it really?
That's what she's doing for forthe suffragette movement.
And then, oh yeah, by the way,I'm mayor.
Come on! That's very cool.
That's cool, right?
Yeah.
I mean the, her achievements andher influence are something we
still feel today.
So she was an absolutetrailblazer, opening the door
for these future generations ofwomen to pursue careers in
medicine and to become leadersin their communities.
(31:07):
She was not only the first womanto qualify as a doctor in the
UK, but played a really centralrole in challenging these
societal norms that tended torelegate women to subordinate
roles in all aspects of life.
She proved that women wereindeed capable of achieving
excellence in any field they settheir mind to, provided they're
(31:29):
given the opportunities to doso.
And that sort of goes back towhat you were saying earlier.
It's often just a case thatpeople need an opportunity.
Yeah.
Just open that door.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This idea of equality ofopportunity is just so
important.
And it sounds like she was agood doctor.
Like, Yeah.
It sounds like she providedpretty good care from the vibe
(31:51):
that I'm getting.
There's no like scandalousstories.
I mean, she had two medicaldegrees, so, you know, Yeah, she
kind of knew what she was doing.
Yeah.
Her legacy really is a testamentto the power of resilience and
the importance of challengingthe status quo.
As the founder of the NewHospital for Women and a key
player in the women's suffragemovement, Anderson's
(32:12):
contributions to social reformand gender equality have had a
lasting impact on both themedical profession and society
at large.
She is today remembered as apioneering physician and a
steadfast advocate for women'srights.
Her legacy, I guess, is all thewomen who came after her, right?
That's her legacy.
It's like, oh, by the way,there's hundreds of thousands of
us that will Yeah.
(32:33):
Yeah.
And she opened that door and ledthe way for others.
And sort of knocked the firstbricks out of that wall.
Yes.
Holding them back.
So it's just a little biteasier.
And again, as we find in so manyof our stories, it's not, it's
not black or white.
but it's just chipping away atthose barriers and it's easier
for the next generation andeasier for the generation after
(32:55):
that.
Wow, that, I didn't know thatstory, so thank you so much,
that's, I can't believe we don'tknow about her.
Yeah, first Doctor.
Yeah, I think you've definitelygot room in the curriculum,
haven't you, to put her at leastalongside Florence Nightingale.
Yeah.
Because, it sounds like she didso much off her own back, and,
(33:18):
because a few people let her in,she managed to change society
for so much better.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And like you said, living yourvalues all the way through your
life, I love that, like, It'sjust stuck to it the whole time.
Yeah, like whether it'ssuffrages, whether it's the
Suffolk coastline, She wasconsistently herself, and she
(33:38):
stood by it.
And she may not have always hadtime to take the action that she
wanted.
She may not have agreed with themethods that other people were
using to go about it, but shebelieved in that fundamental
cause.
And supported it, yeah.
And supported it, yeah.
Yeah, throughout her life.
I think we could all do a bitmore of that, making sure your
(33:59):
values echo through alldifferent parts of your life.
Yeah.
Especially today when the wordauthenticity is just thrown
about so much, isn't it?
Like, I think it's an overusedword.
Well they seem to be living inone of the most inauthentic
times in history because it's soeasy for people to portray a
curated version of themselves orhide particular aspects.
(34:21):
Yeah.
I've um, so full disclosure, uh,I'm addicted to Love Island.
Love Island.
Nothing wrong with Love Island,yeah.
It's brilliant.
The latest episode is Is it onnow?
I thought it was a summer thing.
It's on now, it's Love IslandAll Stars, so it's people who've
(34:43):
been on it before, yeah.
Oh my goodness, been on itbefore! Yeah, maybe calling them
stars is a bit of a stretch.
Second time looking! Yeah, wellCasey's been on it three times
now.
Casey! Oh, Casey, babe! Onething that really irritates me
about the fellas on there, andgenerally they seem like a nice
(35:06):
bunch, fine, it really pisses meoff that when one of the guys
does something sleazy, somethingbad, lies, or something,
whatever the The guy doessomething wrong.
When the other fellas find outabout it, and they're having a
chat together, the guy's Don'tcall them out on it.
(35:29):
They turn it into a laddishthing.
They don't actually say to them,Yeah, actually, you've been a
bit of a dickhead.
I think you should apologise forthat.
Don't do that.
That's a really disrespectfulway to behave, isn't it?
And then when they speak to thewomen in Love Island, when they
speak to this lad's partner,they're then buddying up to the
woman and saying, yeah, it'sawful what you did, isn't it?
(35:50):
It was really disrespectful.
So, they know that So they know?
You know whether it's the rightor the wrong thing to do, unless
you're a particular kind ofsociopath or psychopath.
And I'm always reallydisappointed when men don't call
out other men for bad behavior.
It's such an easy thing for mento do as a life.
It might not feel easy at thetime, but in terms of what you
(36:15):
can contribute to society, it isminimal.
You should be doing it as a bareminimum.
And I think it's such apowerful, it can have such a
powerful impact on whomeveryou're calling out.
So I don't know why they thinkit's acceptable to really enable
someone else to Anyway, so LoveIsland, I love it, but it's
really winding me up.
(36:38):
Yeah, we tend to have a sort ofa binge day where we catch up on
a few.
Oh nice! When we're knackered atthe end of the week, I think
we'll get two episodes intonight.
Nice, quite right.
Go down, light the fire, make abit of dinner, get ready for Kat
to come over and watch some LoveIsland.
That sounds lovely, we'll have afabulous time.
Sounds great, well thanks Simon.
(37:00):
Thanks for teaching us, that wasreally interesting.
And a happy story, I like it.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed, please like,rate and subscribe.
Leave us a comment, have a lookat our Facebook page.
She Changed History.
It's also our Instagram where wedo little updates, little
snippets, little previews, andsend us your ideas for any
(37:22):
stories, big or small, whetherit's changing the history of the
world or changing the history ofjust your family life.
Uh, we'd love to hear aboutvictories, big or small.
Yes.
Yes, please.
That'd be amazing.
Thanks so much for listening andwe'll catch you next time.
Thanks.
Catch you next time.
Bye.
I love that they're off to a Counter Strike
tournament.
Is that what it is?
Nice.
Yeah, Katowice is one of the bigtournaments of the year.
I watch it on YouTube.
Do you?
I'm quite jealous.
You're so jealous.
Yeah.
They're actually there.
Yeah, look at them.
I've never seen Paul so giddy.
He's in proper geek territorythere.
(00:30):
yeah.
Shall we go?
Yeah, let's go.
Hi, Simon.
Hi, Vicky.
How you doing?
How are you?
I'm good, how are you?
I got in first, yeah.
to say, you look very opulent inyour backhand.
as do you.
Welcome to our new Velourstudio.
This is who we are.
(00:50):
It's very exciting.
That's a whiff of the sort ofscholarly, isn't it?
We try, I think we're like DietCoke scholars.
Diet Coke scholars, I was goingto say Coke Zero, but yeah.
Yeah, yeah, you're right, CokeZero scholars.
Possibly the Pepsi Max.
We have a little bit of an airabout it, but you know, deep
down we just love a gossip, andthat's what we're doing.
(01:12):
Yeah, that's it.
One day we'll get smokingjackets in these exact fabrics.
Yes, please, yeah, it'd begreat.
So welcome to She ChangedHistory.
Hello.
Simon's got a story for ustoday.
Yeah, I sure have.
I have a story for you about alady called Elizabeth Garrett
Anderson.
(01:32):
Tipple barrel.
Elizabeth Garrett Anderson'slife was one of defiance against
societal norms and tirelessdedication to breaking down
barriers for women in medicineand beyond.
As the first woman to qualify asa doctor in the United Kingdom,
her accomplishments represent apivotal moment in the history of
both the medical profession andthe broader women's rights
(01:53):
movement.
Her career would go on toinfluence generations of women
striving for equality inprofessions and society.
Today we explore the lastinglegacy of Elizabeth Garrett
Anderson through her role asboth a pioneering physician and
a trailblazer for women'srights.
Have a number of sources,articles from the Royal College
of Physicians, A BBC historyarticle, but yet more from the
(02:15):
Women's History Network.
Whoop, whoop, um, something fromthe Ette Fellowship and a little
bit of bonus reading, onhysterical Victorian women.
Well, yeah, are we referencingthat?
Yes, please.
Not hysterical women, justspecialised in Victoria.
They are famously the mosthysterical, yeah.
(02:36):
Great, great, love, love, love,love.
Elizabeth, was born inWhitechapel in London.
Yeah.
On June the 9th, 1836.
Two quite prosperous families.
British, yeah.
Prosperous family, with a strongemphasis on education.
Her father, Newson Garrett, wasa successful businessman.
(02:57):
And her mother, Louisa Garrett,encouraged her children to be
intellectually ambitious.
Her early life was, as was thecase in Victorian times, not
without its challenges.
with sort of the expectation ofconformity to the traditional
roles, so primarily focused ondomesticity and marriage.
(03:17):
Okay.
So she's like higher society.
Higher society, yeah.
Not royalty, but they're doingalright for themselves.
Okay, understood.
And this intellectual ambitionthat her mother instilled in
her.
meant that she had aspirationsbeyond just marriage and child
(03:39):
care.
She harboured a deep interest inthe sciences and was drawn to
the study of medicine from anearly age.
So we're in Victorian times, andit's a funny time for medicine
because we're, it's not quitethe era of, leeches and just
totally quack theories, althoughI'm sure many of them are still
(04:01):
around, and You've got allthese, haughty male doctors and
a sort of pervasive view ofwomen and women's health care at
the time, It was just a vastunknown, I imagine.
The problem is, like, when theycouldn't diagnose something, in
women, when they thoughtsomething was up, but they
(04:22):
didn't have a diagnosis for it,they just used the catch all
term of hysteria.
Yeah.
So, at the time, we had,hysterical women and, I think
one of the early theories thatit was, because of a lack of
sex.
They were sort of sexuallyfrustrated.
Um, so they had all of these.
They were not.
I can assure you they, they werenot sexually frustrated.
They were doing fine.
(04:44):
They were doing fine.
Well they were if they went tothe doctor's surgery.
Because that's the reason forthe invention of the vibrator.
First the mechanical clockworkone and then electricity came
along.
And apparently about a quarterof women were diagnosed as being
hysterical.
A quarter.
A quarter, yeah, in VictorianEngland, so it was a widely
(05:06):
done, but it was just it waspart of this idea that women
can't control their emotions,they can't focus or concentrate
on things, they can't betrusted, they're just largely
troublemakers who are controlledby their womb, rather than just
like being people who can dostuff.
So did Elizabeth not believe inhysteria then?
(05:26):
Is that the idea that she wantedto dig into that hysteria a bit
more?
She was just dissatisfied.
I mean, a quarter of women beingdiagnosed with hysteria, that's
not an answer.
That's not a thing.
It was such a bizarre diagnosis,because it's like anything that
was wrong, women that didn't fitinto an existing diagnosis would
just get labelled as hysteria.
(05:47):
Oh, I see, so it's like adefault label.
That was the default, yeah.
And then the sort of researchand the efforts and the thinking
of the time went into trying toexplain hysteria, not trying to
figure out what might actuallybe wrong with these people.
Yeah.
If anything, so like SigmundFreud came along and suggested
quite a lot of things, but hewas still just thinking about
(06:09):
the idea of hysteria rather thanactual underlying medical
conditions.
And I wish there was more of adifference today, but I just
think about particularly likediagnosis of endometriosis.
And where that gets written offas, Oh, you're just
exaggerating.
Oh, you know, toughen up.
(06:30):
But, you know, things graduallychange.
I was going to bring up,Nagamanchetti's new book, which
Oh yeah, it's out in May, isn'tit?
Yeah, which is my understandingthat it's about her basically
going through what you justsaid.
No, I am in a lot of pain.
No, I'm not lying.
Yeah.
Please believe me.
(06:50):
And all the different layers toactually getting a full on
diagnosis and actually, youknow, it's.
It seems to be that she'stransforming the regulation
around that still today.
Like, it's like, not the newhysteria, that's not fair, but
it's got its own challenges,hasn't it, Endo?
It's got its own, it's its ownballpark.
Um, so yeah, I can't wait forthat to come out.
(07:13):
that's incredible.
Picture you've sent me lookslike Elizabeth is reading 25
percent of women are diagnosedwith hysteria.
And that's her YouTube reaction.
I feel like that's what's in thenotebook, that statistic.
I'd love to see what's on thatpage.
(07:34):
Yeah, for sure.
Right, And the prevailingsocietal norm at the time just
dictated that women were unfitfor the medical profession.
it was thought that they lackedthe intellectual rigour or, the
emotional temperament requiredfor medical practice.
(07:54):
Sorry, say that again, the what,Picard?
The intellectual rigour.
Oh, intellectual rigor.
So, okay, because they won'tteach them.
Yeah, so they won't teach them.
So you're not covering it up.
And what was the other one?
The emotional temperament.
Yeah.
So they were just too volatileto be, to be considered a
trustworthy medicalpractitioner.
(08:18):
Yeah.
Because a man's never lost histemper.
I love that.
You're right.
You're right.
I know.
Rock steady man, you know.
But this put up an obstacle forsomeone, such as Elizabeth who
wanted to study medicine,because she wasn't allowed.
(08:40):
She was determined to become adoctor.
Okay.
And she was intellectuallycapable, capable.
Absolutely.
She had the capability, thedetermination to do it, the
desire to do it.
But she wasn't allowed into anyof the traditional medical
schools.
They were male only, places.
Okay.
So it was a lot of issues aroundthis time and up until then of,
(09:03):
women not being allowed to studyfor arbitrary reasons.
Fortunately she was from afamily who could afford private
education for her.
Great.
So she was tutored by her fatherand other private tutors.
They cultivated her interest ina number of subjects,
specifically the sciences.
(09:24):
She wanted to go this medicalroute.
And then in 1858, she approachedthe prestigious Society of
Apothecaries.
Oh.
Wanted to go there to study.
Yeah, is that still a thingtoday?
Oh, I didn't actually look,yeah.
I want to be part of that.
(09:44):
Let me in.
It's probably just called thePharmacist Union these days.
It's called Worshipful Societyof Apothecaries, livery company
for pharmacists and physiciansin the city of London.
Oh, it looks beautiful.
Look at that building.
Stunner.
I'm still in London, That'samazing.
Nice.
(10:05):
I love the word apothecary.
It's so good, isn't it?
Yeah, and just the images thatit conjures up.
That's it.
Yeah.
Rows and rows of bottles andtinctures and these things and
the old sort of apothecaryfurniture as well.
All the little storage.
You know, so very much the Ikeaof their time in terms of
organization.
(10:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
They knew they were ontosomething.
They were onto a billion dollarbrand and they didn't, they
didn't know.
So she wasn't allowed to study,at the society, but she She,
underwent, training, studyingmedicine privately with the help
of doctors.
There's a renowned physician andsurgeon, Dr.
William Alexander, who taughther.
(10:46):
And a couple of years later, sheapplied to the Society of
Apothecaries to take herqualifying exams.
Yeah.
She was rejected, again.
Rejected because of her gender.
Yeah.
Just saying that women weren'teligible to enter the medical
profession.
Yeah.
So it's like a blanket banacross all schools.
(11:09):
Blanket ban.
Institutions, yeah.
yeah, she was rejected.
But eventually.
She managed to, with the help offriends in high places and
allies around her, she managedto arrive at a private medical
school, the Middlesex HospitalMedical School in London.
So it was making it one of thefirst institutions to allow
(11:31):
women, a woman.
to study medicine.
She faced a lot of opposition,in her time at the school.
but her academic brilliance anddetermination really prevailed.
And studying medicine is not ashort term thing.
It's not like an hour a week inevening school.
This takes years and years.
(11:52):
And she would have faced theopposition there from tutors and
other students alike.
But she was still allowed in.
But she was allowed in.
Yeah, so someone must have hadher back.
And I think this is so importantwith all our stories is that you
just need someone to givesomeone a chance.
And if you're in a positionright now where you're able to
give someone a chance who maybeisn't traditionally meant to be
(12:16):
for that opportunity or meant togo down that path, give them,
just give them an inch.
And, yeah, what they can achieveoff the bat, because I don't
know this story, but I imagineshe's going to go and achieve
something, is, you know, it'stotally worth it.
I don't know if this is aBritish thing or whatever, but
just always give the underdog,always give someone who, you
(12:38):
know, they've got enoughhurdles.
Be nice, be the one to give achance.
Because that underpins so manyof our stories.
There was a supportive dad,there was a supportive doctor,
someone, you know, let someoneon a train and they could go off
and do something amazing, like,it's always just someone bending
the rules ever so slightly.
Will just lead to amazing thingseven if they're not the people
(12:59):
who quote unquote changedhistory, you know Yes, there you
go soapbox done.
Thank you.
Love it as you were Love it Soin 1865 she passed, her exams
and gained a certificate thatallowed her to become a doctor
because the exams I think had togo through at the time had to go
through this society ofapothecaries Yeah So she got her
(13:22):
certificate, enabled her tobecome a doctor, and society
immediately changed its rules toprevent other women doing the
same thing.
Studying privately and thentaking the exams.
Because of all that terriblehealthcare she was giving
immediately.
Oh, just awful.
Yeah, yeah.
Didn't even give her a chance.
In 1866 she established adispensary for women in London.
(13:49):
So a dispensary is in like apharmacy?
A pharmacy, yeah.
Oh wow! Okay, for women.
for women.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
So specializing in women'shealth is like, we should have
those today because I heardsomething and I, obviously it
was just through Instagram.
So I don't know like how true itis, but we know just as much
(14:11):
about the woman's body and thewoman's reproductive system as
the Tudors did about brains.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
And I'm not gonna lie, theTudors didn't know that much.
They weren't that great at thewhole brain, brain surgery
thing, were they?
No, they hadn't got it down.
(14:32):
I don't think they even had MRIscanners back then.
That just shows how little weknow about, and you've spoken
about this before haven't youwith HG and things like that,
but yeah, it's fascinating howlittle we know.
So the fact that she was alreadyspecialising in 1866, yeah.
Yeah, she had this realcommitment to, like, I mean it
(14:54):
stemmed from her interest in thesciences and she thought, okay,
I want to do medicine, but thenthis, And I'm speculating now,
but I would speculate that thebarriers that she came up
against, and at the time, justthe prevalence of this diagnosis
of hysteria, is not, it's not asatisfactory answer.
and if you were hysterical andrich, then you would get
(15:15):
sexually assaulted by thedoctor, and if you were
hysterical and poor, you wouldget sent off to a mental asylum.
And like, it's not really anadequate answer.
I think we can do bettersociety.
I think we can do better, yeah.
So she had this real commitmentto offering women access to
medical care, both as patients,but also as practitioners.
(15:37):
she was qualified, but wasn'treally recognised because She
was a woman.
So yeah, opened up her owndispensary in 1866.
Yep.
And was made a visitingphysician at something called
the East London Hospital.
She gained a medical degree fromthe University of Paris.
(15:59):
Oh.
So she, this all sounds likeshe's got so much money to fund
these things, because funding apharmacy, a dispensary, not
cheap, going to Paris, notcheap.
Not cheap.
Yeah.
So it sounds like she's got themeans to make waves.
This is, yeah, one of thestories of someone capitalizing
on their privilege to improvethings for everything else,
(16:21):
everyone else.
So she got a medical degree fromthe University of Paris, but the
British Medical Register refusedto recognise her qualification.
So she sort of tried a fewdifferent routes to entry now.
Mm hmm, yeah.
And generally been shot down,but didn't let that stop her.
She, in 1872, founded the newhospital for women new hospital
(16:48):
for women love all those words.
Okay.
What does that mean?
It very much does what it saysUh on the sign above the door.
It was a new hospital and it wasspecifically for women Okay, it
has since been renamed.
It's now known as the elizabethgarrett anderson hospital Sexy
name Right.
(17:09):
Is that in london?
and it's primary purpose thatshe set it up for was advancing
women's health care.
It was one of the firstinstitutions in the UK dedicated
to providing medical care forwomen, by women.
Addressing the specific andparticular health needs of women
and children.
(17:30):
she led the hospital.
and although she wasn't acceptedwith her medical degree from
Paris and having passed theexams and got her certificate
that they then changed the ruleson, etc.
She, this was still a sort of atrailblazer moment of proving
that actually a woman could doit and she was setting up the
dispensary and she set up thehospital.
(17:50):
It's a killer move, isn't it?
It's a killer.
So many thoughts.
So you'd have to get thebuilding, set up the building,
publicize it, let people knowthat it's there, get people in a
position, get women into aposition where, they were
allowed to go.
So you're not just convincingwomen at this point, are you
convincing their, finances andyou're convincing, them that
(18:15):
it's safe on top of everythingelse, So much around the
Victorian health care is notsafe.
Yeah.
And, and so she's doing, she'sleading all those different
rivers.
Yeah, yeah against the societalbackdrop where there would still
have been a lot of opposition toeven the concept of it Yeah,
things don't change thatquickly.
(18:37):
So she was battling againstthat.
It's amazing all the time And itreally showcased her ability to
combine She's got combining boththe intellectual both her
medical expertise and thisdetermination for social reform
Yes.
Together in one large project.
Yeah.
Which is not easy.
No.
Like, that's not easy today, letalone back then.
(19:00):
It's something that comes upwith so many of our, subjects
that, like a lot of people haveskill in a particular area, but
the ones that we discuss.
The women that we discuss whoseem to have the biggest impact
and make the most change areable to combine these maybe
slightly disparate soundingskills of both being
(19:21):
intellectually rigorous andhaving this drive and
determination and almost sort ofpolitical skill.
to maneuver around theleadership at the time.
Or they pull on people who havethat.
So like, with the champagnestory with Nicole, she was
pulling on people who hadexpertise in other fields.
(19:42):
And I think being able toinfluence So many different
people, just like with,Sarojini, she was being at the
table, arguing with so manydifferent standpoints about we
need independence.
And I think there's something aswell about having, if you have a
determination and a passion fora cause, if that's apparent, it
(20:05):
does seem to draw people in.
It draws people to you and theysort of want to, they get caught
up in it and they want to beinvolved in this.
Like this podcast.
In this change, like thispodcast.
Like this podcast, come along,come along for the ride.
Let's put ourselves up there.
We just like this.
So the new hospital for women,also became a key institution
(20:28):
for training up other femaledoctors.
So it was now somewhere thatPassing that book, yeah.
Yeah, they had establishedsomewhere where actually if you
had done your, the academic sideof it, got your certificate,
taken your exams, they were thenwelcoming to you to do your
Like, on the job training,that's such a big part of it.
(20:48):
So she knew it was sexism backthen.
Oh, she 100 percent knew it.
Yeah.
You don't ever see that wordlike in articles or in like, the
world was sexist.
You never see that.
Like it would be cool to see itin a letter or something, like
This is so freaking sexist.
I'm gonna do this.
Yeah But they knew they didn'tknow just call it out call it
(21:12):
for what it is It's just, it isblatant, isn't it?
I think that's what shocks me inall these things.
It's, it's not undercurrent, itis.
In your face, Plainton.
You can't be a doctor.
Purely because you're a woman.
Yeah, for sure.
she wasn't necessarily thatfamous at the time.
I mean, I think she started offpretty wealthy and that
(21:35):
continued, but she wasn't in itfor the fame of it.
Her drive was to make adifference.
She was focused on improving thelives of women, both through the
practice of medicine, andimproving that for them, and
also the advancements of women'srights, both in the medical
community and later in societyin general.
This way that she integratedwomen into the medical
(21:57):
profession was then a model forfuture generations of doctors
who would continue to challengethis institutionalized
discrimination.
In medicine, and it's somethingthat still seems to, I can't say
I read a great deal about themedical profession.
Yeah.
I just think of like, femalesurgeons and the sexism that's
(22:20):
still around those and thebarriers that there are for
women getting involved in that.
There were some stories a fewmonths ago about,, the sexism,
misogyny.
Inappropriate behavior ofsurgeons towards female members
of staff in theatre that stillgoes on today.
Um, there's that picture acouple of years ago.
(22:41):
I think there was, I think therewas actual uproar about it.
of a female surgeon who had tocontinue with the surgery.
pull herself away from thesurgery but she started her
period.
So the picture was of her havinga period in her scrubs and then
there was some massive uproarabout that and it's just like
(23:01):
the general seeming lack ofaccommodation for women in
medicine and in particular areasthat still exists and like you
say surgeon it's thatunconscious bias I suspect
that's still in there with a lotof.
There's that test that theyoften say in, team building
things or training days of, asurgeon and his son are driving
(23:24):
in a car and there's a carcrash.
Yeah, and then the son goes tothe hospital and the surgeon
says, I can't operate on him,he's my son.
Explain.
I'm like the surgeon's his mum.
But you immediately think, oh,he's gay.
Or something, yeah.
He's incestuous, his grandfatheris, his dad.
Yeah, it must be.
Can't possibly be a woman.
(23:45):
Yeah, and I still think, I thinkthat starts from a really young
level though, because like, assoon as you said women in
medicine just then, my firstthought that flashed in my mind
was, Florence Nightingale.
And I got um, images of Mrs Cobbwho was our primary school
teacher teaching us aboutFlorence Nightingale, because
that's what we were taught.
And actually, It's so,internalized.
(24:07):
Yeah.
That thought process.
So,, and that's me and we dothis podcast, which is purely
about highlighting women in maledominated fields.
Um, yeah.
If it's internalised for you,then frankly, the rest of us are
screwed.
Well, you'd think so, wouldn'tyou?
So yeah, I kind of, I love it.
I love that this has been goingon forever, and that she passed
(24:29):
that baton on, like she waslike, well, come and train with
me.
I'll teach you.
That spread of knowledge is sopowerful.
I will give you this step up,this helping hand, this
opportunity.
Love it.
She wasn't only a physician, um,sort of in keeping with her work
in the medical field, she was avocal advocate for women's
(24:50):
rights, particularly in relationto women's suffrage.
Yep, makes sense.
Advocate.
advocacy for the right to voteclosely tied to her belief that
women should have equal accessto opportunities in all spheres
of society.
It's like she knew what hervalues were and she stood by
them throughout all the time.
Stood by them, acted on them,vocalised them, yeah, and showed
(25:11):
some consistency.
Consistently, yeah.
And she wasn't having theseopinions for, they weren't like
a power play because she wantedto be in charge of something,
she just, Thought that was theright thing, and she got on with
it.
Um, yeah, there's equalopportunities in all spheres of
society, including education,employment, and political
participation.
Nice.
(25:31):
Anderson's involvement in thesuffrage movement came at a time
where women were still surprise,largely excluded from political
life and were consideredincapable of contributing to the
democratic process.
Presumably for the same reasonthey were incapable of being
doctors or incapable of beingscientists, etc.
Her support for the women'spolitical rights led to her
(25:54):
active participation in varioussuffrage organizations.
So she worked closely with theWomen's Social and Political
Union.
This was founded by EmmelinePankhurst.
Yeah.
Which, as an organization wasknown for its more militant
tactics, Anderson's approach wasmore moderate.
So she was careful not toalienate those who were sort of
(26:16):
hesitant to embrace these moreradical aspects of the suffrage
movement.
Okay.
Which you see these days withthe, was it the Stop Oil, what's
that organisation called?
Yeah, yeah, just Stop Oil.
So, we're saying that she wasless radical, she was less in
your face after.
She was less radical.
Okay.
Yeah.
(26:37):
Is that, what did she dospeeches and demonstrations or?
Speeches, civic engagements.
just drawing attention to it ina non shouting, non blocking the
roads and disruptive way.
Just making arguments in favourof it.
But I mean, she was also stillrunning the hospital.
(27:00):
She was a busy bee, to behonest.
She was a busy bee.
She was saving people's lives.
she not only contributed to thisbroader suffrage movement, but
raised awareness of thisinterconnectedness of women's
health, education and politicalrights.
I really like this.
Yeah, it's like, a rising tide,everyone, everything rises with
(27:24):
it And by having more politicalrights, you then get more
political involvement, you getmore of a say, you get more,
lobbying on your behalf for whatyou need, which then improves
the other services, whichimproves your access to things,
which then just, so everythingrises together.
That makes me really happy.
And she must have learnt that.
From somewhere, I wonder whatinfluenced her and what, apart
(27:47):
from her dad, because her dadsounded like he was really
active in her tuition but shemust have pieced together
society at some form, or maybeit was just as simple as, I've
been excluded from this, this,this, this, I want this, this,
this, this, and actually if Ihad all these things, I would,
be ten times more productive,Despite her effort and ability,
(28:10):
the exclusion from it just forbeing a woman.
Yeah.
And also, you know, first handexperience of women's health,
because she's a woman.
Yes.
And seeing how, how poor it allis and realising that the only
way to get improvement is for isto be at the table.
She must have had so muchinfluence, I know I've said it
before, but she must have hadsome real vigor behind her to
(28:33):
get people to listen.
And money, obviously, but toget, because these are actions
it's not passive, yeah.
Yeah, As life progressed, shemarried James Anderson and was
mother to two daughters, so herinvolvement in a medical
practice did slow down.
She was then a wife and motheras well.
(28:56):
And although her sort ofability, her time available to
be involved in the medicalpractice diminished, she was
still, she remained asdetermined and committed to
medical rights, women's rights.
medical reform.
She remained active in thesewomen's organizations,
continuing to work for thebetterment of women's position
(29:18):
in society, all the way throughto her retirement then in 1902,
where she retired toOlderborough.
on the Suffolk coast.
So she was 66 at the time ofretirement.
And what's a sensible thing todo when you retire to a small
(29:40):
town on the Suffolk coast?
Well, you spend six yearsbuilding up your reputation.
And in 1908, she became thetown's mayor.
Yes.
And she was, uh, I like the ideathat she's just causing havoc in
this small Suffolk town, likepure havoc.
Imagine it as a really sleepylittle parish.
(30:01):
Yeah.
From London, from setting up abrand new hospital in London,
she just storms this littleparish.
I love it.
What the hell are you guysplaying at?
Okay, someone's got to takecontrol here.
But that made her the first everfemale mayor in England.
Oh, wow.
She was the first female doctor.
(30:22):
The first of many.
Wow, that's amazing.
I didn't know that.
That's very cool.
I wouldn't have even thoughtabout it.
Like, the first mare.
Yeah.
And when was that?
Did you say 1902?
1908 she became mayor.
Oh, because six years, yeah.
1908.
Hey! Which is quite a politicalposition in and of itself, isn't
(30:45):
it really?
That's what she's doing for forthe suffragette movement.
And then, oh yeah, by the way,I'm mayor.
Come on! That's very cool.
That's cool, right?
Yeah.
I mean the, her achievements andher influence are something we
still feel today.
So she was an absolutetrailblazer, opening the door
for these future generations ofwomen to pursue careers in
medicine and to become leadersin their communities.
(31:07):
She was not only the first womanto qualify as a doctor in the
UK, but played a really centralrole in challenging these
societal norms that tended torelegate women to subordinate
roles in all aspects of life.
She proved that women wereindeed capable of achieving
excellence in any field they settheir mind to, provided they're
(31:29):
given the opportunities to doso.
And that sort of goes back towhat you were saying earlier.
It's often just a case thatpeople need an opportunity.
Yeah.
Just open that door.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This idea of equality ofopportunity is just so
important.
And it sounds like she was agood doctor.
Like, Yeah.
It sounds like she providedpretty good care from the vibe
(31:51):
that I'm getting.
There's no like scandalousstories.
I mean, she had two medicaldegrees, so, you know, Yeah, she
kind of knew what she was doing.
Yeah.
Her legacy really is a testamentto the power of resilience and
the importance of challengingthe status quo.
As the founder of the NewHospital for Women and a key
player in the women's suffragemovement, Anderson's
(32:12):
contributions to social reformand gender equality have had a
lasting impact on both themedical profession and society
at large.
She is today remembered as apioneering physician and a
steadfast advocate for women'srights.
Her legacy, I guess, is all thewomen who came after her, right?
That's her legacy.
It's like, oh, by the way,there's hundreds of thousands of
us that will Yeah.
(32:33):
Yeah.
And she opened that door and ledthe way for others.
And sort of knocked the firstbricks out of that wall.
Yes.
Holding them back.
So it's just a little biteasier.
And again, as we find in so manyof our stories, it's not, it's
not black or white.
but it's just chipping away atthose barriers and it's easier
for the next generation andeasier for the generation after
(32:55):
that.
Wow, that, I didn't know thatstory, so thank you so much,
that's, I can't believe we don'tknow about her.
Yeah, first Doctor.
Yeah, I think you've definitelygot room in the curriculum,
haven't you, to put her at leastalongside Florence Nightingale.
Yeah.
Because, it sounds like she didso much off her own back, and,
(33:18):
because a few people let her in,she managed to change society
for so much better.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And like you said, living yourvalues all the way through your
life, I love that, like, It'sjust stuck to it the whole time.
Yeah, like whether it'ssuffrages, whether it's the
Suffolk coastline, She wasconsistently herself, and she
(33:38):
stood by it.
And she may not have always hadtime to take the action that she
wanted.
She may not have agreed with themethods that other people were
using to go about it, but shebelieved in that fundamental
cause.
And supported it, yeah.
And supported it, yeah.
Yeah, throughout her life.
I think we could all do a bitmore of that, making sure your
(33:59):
values echo through alldifferent parts of your life.
Yeah.
Especially today when the wordauthenticity is just thrown
about so much, isn't it?
Like, I think it's an overusedword.
Well they seem to be living inone of the most inauthentic
times in history because it's soeasy for people to portray a
curated version of themselves orhide particular aspects.
(34:21):
Yeah.
I've um, so full disclosure, uh,I'm addicted to Love Island.
Love Island.
Nothing wrong with Love Island,yeah.
It's brilliant.
The latest episode is Is it onnow?
I thought it was a summer thing.
It's on now, it's Love IslandAll Stars, so it's people who've
(34:43):
been on it before, yeah.
Oh my goodness, been on itbefore! Yeah, maybe calling them
stars is a bit of a stretch.
Second time looking! Yeah, wellCasey's been on it three times
now.
Casey! Oh, Casey, babe! Onething that really irritates me
about the fellas on there, andgenerally they seem like a nice
(35:06):
bunch, fine, it really pisses meoff that when one of the guys
does something sleazy, somethingbad, lies, or something,
whatever the The guy doessomething wrong.
When the other fellas find outabout it, and they're having a
chat together, the guy's Don'tcall them out on it.
(35:29):
They turn it into a laddishthing.
They don't actually say to them,Yeah, actually, you've been a
bit of a dickhead.
I think you should apologise forthat.
Don't do that.
That's a really disrespectfulway to behave, isn't it?
And then when they speak to thewomen in Love Island, when they
speak to this lad's partner,they're then buddying up to the
woman and saying, yeah, it'sawful what you did, isn't it?
(35:50):
It was really disrespectful.
So, they know that So they know?
You know whether it's the rightor the wrong thing to do, unless
you're a particular kind ofsociopath or psychopath.
And I'm always reallydisappointed when men don't call
out other men for bad behavior.
It's such an easy thing for mento do as a life.
It might not feel easy at thetime, but in terms of what you
(36:15):
can contribute to society, it isminimal.
You should be doing it as a bareminimum.
And I think it's such apowerful, it can have such a
powerful impact on whomeveryou're calling out.
So I don't know why they thinkit's acceptable to really enable
someone else to Anyway, so LoveIsland, I love it, but it's
really winding me up.
(36:38):
Yeah, we tend to have a sort ofa binge day where we catch up on
a few.
Oh nice! When we're knackered atthe end of the week, I think
we'll get two episodes intonight.
Nice, quite right.
Go down, light the fire, make abit of dinner, get ready for Kat
to come over and watch some LoveIsland.
That sounds lovely, we'll have afabulous time.
Sounds great, well thanks Simon.
(37:00):
Thanks for teaching us, that wasreally interesting.
And a happy story, I like it.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed, please like,rate and subscribe.
Leave us a comment, have a lookat our Facebook page.
She Changed History.
It's also our Instagram where wedo little updates, little
snippets, little previews, andsend us your ideas for any
(37:22):
stories, big or small, whetherit's changing the history of the
world or changing the history ofjust your family life.
Uh, we'd love to hear aboutvictories, big or small.
Yes.
Yes, please.
That'd be amazing.
Thanks so much for listening andwe'll catch you next time.
Thanks.
Catch you next time.
Bye.
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