April 1, 2025 • 32 mins
The Unveiling of Judith Leyster: A Forgotten Dutch Master
In this episode of 'She Changed History,' hosts Cara and Vicky delve into the overlooked story of Judith Leyster, a remarkable female painter from the Dutch Golden Age. Despite her significant contributions to art, Judith was nearly erased from history due to a combination of gender bias and fraudulent attribution of her work to more famous male contemporaries. Her signature, a star-like 'JL,' was often painted over to attribute her works to the acclaimed painter Frans Hals. The hosts explore her life, struggles, achievements, and the eventual rediscovery and reinstatement of her works, shedding light on the systemic issues that kept her out of historical records for centuries.
Sources today are:
https://www.britannica.com/art/genre-painting
https://artsandculture.google.com/story/7-amazing-facts-about-judith-leyster/GgUBhb-z8As2Jg?hl=en
https://www.artnews.com/list/art-news/artists/who-was-judith-leyster-and-why-was-she-so-important-1234652971/leysters-name-is-forgotten-but-not-her-paintings/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Golden_Age_painting
https://www.nga.gov/collection/artist-info.1485.html
https://news.artnet.com/art-world/art-bites-judith-leyster-rediscovery-2457671
00:00 Party Aftermath and Dog Talk
01:03 Introduction to the Story
02:08 A Victorian Art Auction
04:01 Judith Leyster's Early Life
05:01 The Dutch Golden Age
06:59 Judith's Artistic Training
10:10 Joining the Painters Guild
11:05 Guild Dispute with Frans Hals
13:54 The Role of Women in the Dutch Golden Age
15:20 Judith Leyster's Artistic Techniques
17:05 Marriage and Family Life
19:17 Rediscovery and Recognition
22:11 The Impact of Misattribution
25:11 Legacy and Modern Recognition
28:43 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
audio1572508189 (00:08):
You know what it's like.
Yeah.
You go to a party and the nextday you're exhausted.
Yeah.
And you're thinking about allthe things that happened.
Or if you're me, you're thinkingabout all the stupid things you
said thinking oh hundredpercent.
Oh, so he doing like the dogversion of that?
He's going out.
I hope so.
Yeah.
I hope he's he seemed happythough, so fingers crossed.
All works out.
We'll see how we go.
Oh, speaking of dogs, Ted is inthe room with me.
(00:30):
He's sleeping.
Hey, Ted.
We've just been on a big walk,but yay.
If he starts being obnoxious,then we'll have, is it okay if
we pause and I'll stick himoutside?
Of course.
Hopefully he's flat.
I've never seen Ted beobnoxious.
Wow, that's a miracle.
You think you talk about it likeit's a daily appearance, but
I've never witnessed.
I've never witnessed it.
I've never witnessed.
(00:51):
Vicky, I could tell you.
Next time you come round, have alook at every single pair of
shoes in my house.
Literally every single pair ofshoes, he's left his mark.
He's yeah.
Love him.
are you ready for a story?
Yes, ma'am.
Let's go.
Oh, let's go.
hi Kara.
Hi Vicki.
How are you?
(01:11):
Yes, I am well.
Thank you.
The sun is shining.
Ooh, it's spring.
Woo.
We're inside.
I have a window.
How about you?
Yeah.
We've got luscious blue skiesand greenery to look at as well
as this.
So it'll be a fun sesh.
Welcome to She Change History.
We have a story for you todayand.
(01:31):
It's particularly, I would liketo think it's a very carra and
Vicki story because it's onethat I've been wanting to do
ever since we went to London andhad our day trip.
Oh.
The, which museum was it Tate?
It was Tate, wasn't it?
It was, yes.
Tate Britain that we went to thewrong Tate, but it was Tate
Britain.
(01:52):
We went to Tate Britain and theyhad basically an exhibition of
women who were written out ofhistory in the art world.
And there was so many wasn'tthere?
And we were like, we'll have todo one for the pod.
And I've managed to get round toone, which is very exciting.
That's amazing.
So here we go.
Got a little intro for you.
So picture this, we're in aVictorian art auction at the air
(02:15):
thick with the hushed excitementof wealthy collectors.
The auctioneer's voice is arapid staccato as he's trying to
squeeze every last shilling outof the bidders.
And then there's Thomas Lawry, aBritish art dealer, and he's
just laid down a hefty 4,500pounds for a Franz Hall's great
painting called the Carousingcouple.
(02:37):
So think rosy, cheeks.
Lots of merriment, very tn seen.
This painting is, it's veryjolly, very well sought after.
But here is where it getsinteresting Later when the drama
of the auctions died down.
The buyer discovers the faint,almost hidden signature beneath
one of the figures feet.
An ornate J with a little lpeeking out looks a little bit
(03:01):
like a shooting star, and thatshooting star belongs to a
different artist altogether.
Not the great Hal's friends.
That we've just paid through thenose for.
Can you imagine Thomas Lori'sface?
He's just shout out a fortunefor this painting, thinking it's
one of the greatest artists inthe world, and to find out it's
the mark of another painter.
(03:22):
But not only that, it's the markof a woman painter.
You could just feel his blood.
Boiling.
Oh.
And this is the story of JudithLaer and how her fortune got
mis-sold.
Wow.
Interesting.
Oh, that was very cinematic.
Dramatized.
Thank you.
(03:42):
Thank you.
It took a little while.
Loved it.
Sources today are Britannica, ofcourse.
Art news a lot of art websites.
There's a national museum ofwomen's art.
I used an article from them thatwas really good.
The Smithsonian has covered thisstory as well.
And there's a few other littlearticles that will pop in the
show notes.
So we need to rewind a bitfurther.
(04:04):
So the auction was in the 18hundreds.
We need to rewind all the way to1609, and we need to go to the
Netherlands where our storytakes place.
Judith Lisa is born and she isthe eighth child of a couple
called Jan Wils.
And Rin Jaspers, D-R-I-G-N.
The brood actually rebrandthemself in a way.
(04:27):
'cause I think in Europeancountries you don't necessarily
take your husband's last name.
You keep your last name.
But they did eventually adoptthe name Laer because they had a
brewery.
And that brewery was calledLester or Lone Star.
That's what that means.
Oh.
And they lived comfortablyuntil, like many of our stories
(04:49):
bankruptcy hits in 1625.
And it was around that time thatJudith, young lady at that point
And her siblings were put towork basically to help cover the
family expenses.
Now we're in a crucial age inthe Netherlands and in Dutch
culture, and that is calledDutch Golden Age Have you heard
of that?
That kind of era.
(05:09):
I'm familiar with some of theDutch work.
My mother and I, when we were inWashington, DC went to see a
talk about the Dutch Masters andreally?
Yeah.
There's also some novels thatI've read that are set around
that period, like the girl withthe pearl earing and so on.
So yeah, it's something I love.
I'm very interested.
Pitch in it's a period in Dutchhistory that is around the 17th
(05:32):
century, and it is particularlyduring and after the later part
of the 80 years war, which isthe war that gave Dutch
independence.
So the Dutch Republic.
It became really prosperous as anation and their key areas were
trading science and art.
Art was their biggest, one oftheir biggest exports.
There was lots of large scalekind of migration after the war.
(05:57):
And there was also a sharp.
It describes it here as a sharpbreak, but a sharp break with
the old monarchist and Catholiccultural traditions, which meant
that they were in thisresurgence of life phase as a
culture.
They were quite, I guess theother way of thinking.
It's like new age and hippieskind of thing.
Just like a little bit alternateloosening up, and they were
(06:19):
reinventing themselves as anation.
And because of this this thentranslated into Dutch art and.
The painting of religioussubjects.
Stories and fables of the Biblethat dropped really quickly and
lots of new types of art camethrough, including things like
portraits.
Landscape, seascape, steellives, just lots of different
(06:42):
types and it was huge.
I can't explain the vast volumeof, ah, they were churning out
as a nation.
It was really fascinating.
It's like a prolific time andJudith right in the center of it
basically.
And because of this, it's notsurprising that.
She trained to be an artist.
It's not a hundred percent howshe trained.
(07:04):
There's two kind of schools ofthought.
How she trained.
One was under Fran's de Grabberwho is probably most likely
because He already had a femalein his workshop, which was his
daughter Maria.
Oh.
So it was, he was quite open towomen training and so you could
see how that would attractJudith because yeah, she's like
(07:26):
me.
Safe space.
Safe space.
On the other hand, you've gotthe Great who is Franz house,
who is a really well knownpainter and you can see.
Similarities in their work alittle bit.
I'll go onto that a little bitmore later.
But either way, Judith trainsand she's very good.
She tended to focus mostly onportraits, either portraits of
(07:50):
people, or genre painting.
Do you know what genre paintingis?
No.
So that is the idea that youjust paint scenes from.
Ordinary everyday life.
So it could be work or play butthey're done in a very realistic
manner and they tend to be quiteintimate.
Whether it's like a a pub sceneor making music parties cooking
(08:15):
all this kind of like justfamily life kind of stuff.
And she was known in particularfor making them really joyful,
which is really nice.
Yeah.
A little bit more about, like Iwas saying, the prolificness of
this period.
It was roughly estimated thatover 1.3 million pictures were
painted in 20 years, from 1640to 1660.
(08:39):
Oh gosh.
Which is an insane amount, isn'tit?
Yeah they're banging'em out.
They're firing'em off like agun.
That's crazy.
And it's because people wantedthem.
So there were large fairs peoplewere.
There's a demand for them,basically.
Is this like a status purchase?
I have a bit of money coming inbecause trade is going well and
(08:59):
to show my good taste andwealth.
I'm gonna buy a portrait or I'mgonna buy this charming scene of
domestic life.
I have no idea.
I think maybe it was like, Iimagine it's exported because.
The 1.3 million.
That's a lot.
(09:19):
Lot.
I don't, I think you're gonnahave to, it's a lot.
Just focus on different markets.
One in every room, two in thebathroom.
Yeah, that's a lot.
Even if you're just selling toyour, yeah.
If you're only just selling toyour own people.
So I think there must have beensome exporting involved because
also it was really well soughtafter like foreigners really.
Were perceptive to this goldenage and they were very
interested in it.
(09:39):
And, and like you said, it is astatus thing.
'cause how many, like we sawwhen we went around that museum,
how many of those were likeowned by King Charles?
And you were like, sorry, what?
It's King Charles owning thisfor Yeah, he specked them all
up, didn't he?
He on eBay, he really did.
Clicking away.
Outbidding.
Sniping those auction.
Yeah.
I was really surprised at that.
(10:00):
So maybe it's a mix.
But Judith's in it.
So she's at the age of 24 andthis just shows how good she
was.
'cause just remember that volumeI just spoke about.
She became one of the firstwomen to join the Har and
Painters Guild of St.
Luke, which is very cool.
It's very prestige.
It's members only, and she wasone of the first women's skin.
(10:21):
I think she was like the firstor second.
I bet that ruffled somefeathers.
That just shows how good she is.
Yeah.
So shortly, just to give you anidea of what you needed to get
in the Guild.
So shortly before she joined theGuild in 1633, they enacted a
new charter with members'requirements so to be considered
eligible, you'd have had to havethree years of experience like
(10:44):
study, and you'd have had tohave been an apprentice and like
a paid apprentice for one.
Okay, so she had to work hardfor that.
not everybody can do that.
And she became so successfulafter joining the Guild that she
even opened her own workshop andstarted teaching others how to
pay.
Wow.
(11:04):
That's awesome.
Yeah.
And this kind of shows, I.
I've kept this tiny story inhere because I think it's a good
foundational piece.
What comes later?
She opened her own workhouse,not an easy thing to do, and she
had trainees, students comingin.
One of those students was calledWilliam Ster.
And he left her after one weekbecause he had landed a spot.
(11:31):
At Franz Howell's workshop, soOh, Franz Howells poached her
assistant, basically.
Wow.
He was meant, yeah.
This student was meant to bethere to hold Judith and she was
gonna train him in return.
That's what, that's how thatworks.
And Franz poached him.
I bet that was an awkwardconversation.
What a little pip squeakthinking He can absolutely swan
(11:53):
in and swan out.
Ooh, I'm cross.
Yes.
Because the reason you'recrossed is'cause this is a
breach of procedure.
This is not okay.
Yes.
It's not nice because they'reboth part of the guild as well.
So they're meant to be part ofthe same circles, right?
You meant to respect each otherin those circles.
And the move had been givenwithout the guild's permission.
Oh.
So it was completely naughty andinstead of letting it slide, she
(12:16):
had the same reaction as you.
And she took it up with a guildand made a complaint against Hal
and she demanded that a quarterof his, the student's fees,
'cause you had to pay tuitionbe.
Refunded to her.
She was like he's just gone.
That's not fair.
And I've paid for that.
Which was quite a big deal backin the day because not only you
just going up against a fellowGud member, but you're going up
(12:37):
against Fran's house who, who isvery famous.
He's a very well known painter.
He's known as father of thisgolden age, so he is big dog.
People recognize him.
It, it feels like he could havehad any assistant he wanted.
Yes.
And maybe him hiring thisparticular one feels a little
(12:58):
bit personal.
Like, why would you do that?
Yes.
That's nasty.
Which kind of leads into thefacts that, they had a history
and there is this idea that theyhad a history because
stylistically Judith's Worksdoes resemble that of Fran's
house.
So either she admired him or shehad trained under him, but we
(13:20):
don't know.
Her brushwork was quite free andspontaneous.
She favored similar types ofsubject to Hals and often did
these like energetic Mary scenesthat I spoke about earlier.
And when she was training, sheactually did copy one of his
paintings, which was called TheJester, Which suggests she was
in how's Alia, which isinteresting.
(13:44):
But that's as far as that goes.
There's no other claims to that.
It is just that she may havetrained under him, and if you
train under someone, you'regonna have a similar style.
To them.
Yeah I think there's also anelement in art sometimes of give
the people what they want.
So she's a commercial artist ina time where there is a
dominant, popular.
(14:06):
Style.
It seems quite natural, like inmusic, like in any arts, there's
a rash of television shows thatare all about a certain thing.
Every artist is probably goingto have echoes of halls if he's
the leading figure in thatmovement.
Absolutely.
Same.
I'm defending my girl here.
Come on.
And you're quite right too,because there's not many so
(14:29):
women in the.
In the Dutch golden age, there'slike a handful.
I found maybe eight names.
So it's probably not jumping toconclusions to assume there
might have been some misogynygoing on in there if he poached
her.
Oh you do shocked me.
Sorry.
I'm sorry to be crude.
(14:49):
Yeah.
Other names around the age ofjust to name check a few people.
Clara Peters, Rachel Roush,Maria Sch Chen.
These are all female artists ofthe Golden Age, but honestly
there are a hand, like thinkingof those numbers earlier.
1.3 million paintings.
You need a lot of painters topaint.
Those paintings.
Only eight were female.
Wow.
Around eight.
(15:11):
Yeah, it's all about scale,isn't it?
Yes.
Yeah.
I cannot do the math in my head,but in percentage terms, that is
woeful.
Yes.
So like I said, so LA's got thisbeautiful art technique.
She's very well she's good atwhat she does'cause she's in the
guild.
Just another little.
Tidbits of how she painted.
It was suggested that she worksout her compositions as she
(15:34):
paints.
So it's not here's a trace andthat's exactly what I'm gonna
do.
A few of her works had laterbeen studied by x-ray machines
and infrared and that you couldsee that she'd tried out a few
compositions, first rejectedthem and painted over them,
which is quite common inpaintings.
For example, in her selfportrait from 1630, it revealed
(15:54):
that.
So she painted a picture of herpainting a picture, the painting
that she paints in this paintingwas originally a a girl with red
parted lips, but she paintedover that to a fiddler and it,
it sounds a lot more joyful,doesn't it?
And a lot more jaunty comparedto this quite small little girl
with red parted lips.
That sounds quite haunting incomparison she has been known to
(16:17):
change paintings as she goes.
Her paintings also often havelayered me meanings,
particularly around Vice and thetwo.
So for example, in the lastdrop, which is a 1629 painting,
she has two young men on adrunken night out.
A bit jolly, but they're joinedby like A skeleton.
(16:38):
Which is quite haunting.
Lads.
Lads.
Oh, wait a minute.
Oh wait, I might die ofalcoholism.
That was the great guys.
Yeah.
Okay.
So some of that biblicalmoralizing is still coming
through in these paintings.
Yeah.
Consequences.
Were still there.
Even though we were talkingabout drinking games, music, and
(17:00):
it was quite common for her inher paintings anyway, to have a
double meaning.
Yeah.
The majority of her work waspainted between 1629 and 1635
because in the 1636 she gotmarried to another painter.
She married him and then they'dmoved to aunt.
Amsterdam when she was 26, shethen had five children, so she
(17:22):
was busy.
Sadly out of the five, only twoof them survived to adulthood.
So quite a rough, but thatagain, that just shows the
period we're in.
Yeah.
And.
It's thought that she stoppedpainting, but actually her
husband was a painter.
There were still workshopsthere.
She trained for three years.
That's quite elite to say.
(17:42):
She never painted again.
They have found one illustrationof a tulip.
Which is like a bot autonomoustulip.
So it's, really detailed that isdated after she had her children
in 1643.
And it is more than nightly thatshe still assisted her husband
with his art because this wastheir main source of income.
You're a commercial, you wannahelp.
(18:05):
So yeah, just a little, justFYI.
So in November, 1659 Judith andhas her husband actually
prepared a joint will thatsuggests that, there's something
going on there, maybe one ofthem's ill.
And actually it turns out thatJudith did die three months
after that will.
It shows.
(18:25):
Foreshadowing there.
She died at the age of 50 andshe's buried on a farm in
Hemstead which has since beenbuilt over.
So they don't really know thelocation of her grave anymore.
But all this kind of leads intothe next part of the story is
that, it goes a bit quieter.
So her husband dies a decadelater and in his, in the will
(18:50):
then because the estate getssorted out, is that they'd
amassed obviously a huge amountof paintings over their
lifetime.
And these paintings were thensold off and, this sprinkled I
guess over society.
They just.
Get passed on and these things,I don't have paintings.
I dunno what happens to this.
(19:12):
I'm picturing the auction youdescribed earlier that you Yeah,
that kind, I think that kind ofthing.
That kind of thing.
But earlier, obviously hundredsof years earlier, so following
her death in 1660, sheessentially disappears from the
art world, right?
Because either her works areleft or sold on, or haven't.
Been noted or recorded properly.
(19:34):
But it is really important tonote that she has a really
distinctive signature, which isher initials, which is j and l,
and when she draws themtogether, it looks like a star,
because that's what her lastname means.
And she had put this on all herworks, sometimes really small,
like size of the thinker.
Now small and not always in thesame place, but they are on the
(19:55):
artworks.
So like I said, then the storygoes quiet as it did for a lot
of women of that time.
It goes quiet for, I'm talkingcenturies here.
I think she just gets completelywritten out of the art world
despite contributing to it.
And none of the women Imentioned earlier are cited
throughout history.
(20:15):
So for example, there was in adefinite record compiled by male
art historians in 1908.
It was a catalog of works ofDutch painters in the 17th
century.
That is a specific catalog,right?
No women were mentioned in thatcatalog at all.
(20:36):
That's really interesting and Iwonder whether it was a
deliberate step, a choice.
Or whether it was that you don'tknow to look for what you can't
imagine exists, so they, itmight not have even occurred to
them, Hey, there must have beena few women working in this
(20:59):
field, or whether they knew andthought those are lesser works.
So the National Gallery of ArtDescriber the, so sassy, the
Golden Age of Dutch painting wasone of the most extraordinary
phenomena in the history ofvisual arts, but the men
concluded that women weren't inthat.
(21:20):
Lovely.
So over time she, Judith hascompletely forgotten her records
exist of her because she didmarry.
So there is a legal document,but other than that, we don't
really know.
Anything else about her?
So her work carried on beingtraded, sold, exhibited.
And this brings us then to ourauctions at the start of the
(21:42):
story in about 1892 1893, and.
That auction happens.
Thomas buys this painting,thinks it's from the incredible
France, how who has made itthrough the centuries.
People know who he is and isabsolutely fuming that it's an
unknown artist.
And then later it's discoveredthat the artist is then female.
(22:02):
So very upset and feels likehe's wasted 4,500 pounds, which
is a lot back then.
That's a lot of money.
It is a lot of money.
And what this does is itinspires Dutch art collector and
historian Cornelius Hofs Derubecause he's the one who figured
out that this painting wasMisattributed.
So he was the one who figuredout that there was a little
(22:27):
star, which we know is Judah'ssignature underneath.
The painting and it had beenpainted over.
And he was then, this can't bethe only one I'm gonna start
researching and looking at.
So he goes off and that, that'sbasically some of his life work
is finding out which paintingshave been mis misattributed.
(22:47):
So not only had they paintedover Judith's monogram of the J
and the L, they had also thenadded Fran, hows.
Oh, so okay, this takes onanother, yeah, complexion,
right?
Because this is the guy whostole her assistant back in the
day.
So not only this guy and tookchances in her lifetime and is
(23:09):
still taking from her in depth.
Pretty friends guy, honestly.
And then also another area isthat someone had literally
erased Judith from history.
They had literally erased hersignature.
Oh.
And painted over the top of it.
Isn't that sad?
It's, yeah.
Like I said, Cornelius goes offand he writes this
(23:30):
groundbreaking essay aboutLester as the creator of this
oil painting.
And in that period, he thenattributes six to seven more
paintings that he thinks arehers as well, that have been
misattributed to Hal's.
So he finds these paintings, hediscovers the monogram
underneath, and, by that time,this F has fake, it's not really
(23:54):
fake, but falsely attributed hadthen entered the Louvre.
Oh.
So it was already in the Louvreby the time that he's put all
his research together.
So what that says though is thatthe quality of the work is
unassailable.
'cause irrespective of whosesignature is on the little
bottom corner.
(24:15):
They're not hanging up any oldta like they're discerning of
that after the leave.
Yeah.
It's fairly high standard, soFor sure.
Okay.
And the leave kept it.
They kept it and then theylisted it as Judith Laer.
Outstanding, which is away.
Big points for Cornelius.
Big points for the Louvre.
Everybody's stepping up here.
(24:35):
Love it.
It's very good.
The guy who bought the painting,so Thomas Laurie.
He was still very upset abouthis 4,500 pounds.
Took it to court and basicallydid the guy who sold it for
fraud he won that court case andhe managed to get a 25% refund.
(24:56):
Oh, so the going rate for apoached art atelier assistant is
also the going rate for a falseartwork, 25%.
Oh yeah, that's your refund.
Whatever's going on, they'reconsistent.
I think that is consistent.
Fair in 1926, a little bitfurther on another 35 paintings
(25:17):
were identified to be Judith'sand if recent histories, any
more indication there were gonnabe loads more in store because
we know how prolific it was atthe time.
There's another example of thishappening to her.
So another example of erasureand that is her painting, the
boy playing the flute, which shepainted in the 1930s.
(25:37):
It's basically a picture of ayoung musician who is looking
towards an unseen window, andthat painting was owned by the
Swedish Royal family Wow.
For 150 years.
And even though she'd put herstar in it, she'd put the J and
the L it was thought to be hers.
(25:58):
And then it was finallyattributed to her after this
scandal and kept myunderstanding is to see it kept,
it was kept in the royal family,which was really good on top of
that.
Now I know you said earlier,conius.
Cornelius, there is just alittle bit of, a little bit of a
gripe I had at Cornelius, andI'm not taken away from the good
(26:19):
things he did.
But when I was reading, therewas this real kind of idea of
victim blaming happeningthroughout this.
So they were saying it'sJudith's fault.
The reasons that she wasmisattributed were, are often
blamed on her.
For example, she left a smallbody of work behind and she had
no major commissions in herlife.
(26:41):
So it is, she didn't really tryhard.
Of course we're gonna get itwrong.
She barely even tried.
And also her monogram, her fancylittle star.
That makes it very hard toidentify her actually.
And that actually causes us alot of confusion when we're
trying to work this out.
Yes.
And do your job.
Don't come at me to paint overit.
(27:02):
Don't paint over it.
Like I, I think maybe if we'relooking to apportion blame, we
should look to the fraudsterswho went hall's painting self,
or a packet.
Paint over that starimmediately.
Oh my God.
God, I could not believe it whenI was reading this article.
I was like, I dare say, even ifshe had a giant chunky, neon
signature you know those littles's that you drew in school, if
(27:24):
you know what I'm talking about?
One, yeah.
Even if she'd written Judas inthat they're paint over that.
'cause they want the moneythat's not on her.
It's not on her.
And I was absolutely livid.
The article was by Art Newswhere I found that.
However.
Since the dramatic course casescholars have been adding to
what Cornelius started what hebegan more than a century ago,
(27:47):
contributing more attributionsto the number of paintings that
are now considered to be Judassince the 1970.
She has been included in surveysof women artists, and she's also
had A solo museum exhibition.
Most of her works are inmuseums.
Their collections are on view,and most importantly, they are
not kept in storage.
(28:09):
Judith's story highlightsfemales artists contributions.
Not seeing them as muses, butseeing them as creators in their
own right.
Her story is a crucial turningpoint in writing art historical
records.
And the National Museum Women'sArt Director, Susan Fisher
Sterling, is very committed tothis.
She's very committed toexhibitions that challenge
(28:31):
traditional views, expanding ourthinking about art history and
what happened in the past.
So there is work going on to fixthis, but it is wild that it
even happened in the firstplace.
And that is the story of Juda laEaster.
That is exciting to, to knowthat work's going on and that we
(28:54):
aren't just resting on the lazyassumptions.
We are actually going back andusing, the research to, to show
these pockets.
And by really odd coincidencethis week I've been writing a,
an episode about ArtemisiaGenki, who is another one of the
artists we saw at the Tate.
(29:15):
And, it'll be super cool when wedo that one to see where these
things time and Yeah, like thekind of things that happen to
each of them in terms of theircareer and their work and their
viewpoint is really interestingto hear.
Yeah.
That's so exciting.
Yeah.
I feel happy for Judith that herwork is now out there and, I'm
(29:38):
thinking.
In the National Gallery in DCwhen we saw that talk about the
Dutch Masters, one of herpaintings, the loot player is
there.
So the one that is in theWashington Gallery is a self
portrait of her painting.
That's the one you described.
(29:58):
Oh, the one with the x-ray?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So she's.
Smiling joyfully and paintingAnother one of her well-known,
it's a, the man playing thefiddle?
Yeah.
Oh, that's the one you weredescribing.
She looks so chill.
She's leaning back.
She's got the, oh, you justcaught me doing the thing I love
(30:18):
to do.
It's so gorgeous.
She looks like someone who's intheir element and is happy with
life.
And if we could all do a bit ofthat, then yes, please.
Oh yes, absolutely.
We should all be so lucky.
Yeah.
And we are so lucky that herwork was eventually
rediscovered.
I feel I was a bit harsh onCornelius, but perhaps to
Cornelius.
And also, if that monogram was amale monogram, it wouldn't have
(30:40):
been that hard to find.
You just know, if that was a,like John Paul Lester.
They would've been like, oh, itwasn't that hard actually.
You just know.
I know.
We all know.
And I think the reasons that shebacked away from the work and
there wasn't more of a body ofwork to support that.
(31:01):
Being a well-known signature arefundamentally sexist, that she
had children and because thatwas woman's work and when you
had kids, anything else went outthe window.
Then of course she doesn't have.
The same body of art.
Yeah.
That's it.
She simply hadn't got the time.
There are other factors in themix that are also not good and
(31:27):
also not her fault.
Yeah.
Oh, thanks very much forlistening.
That was so interesting.
And yeah, just joyful work.
And yeah.
Amazing.
audio2663295054 (31:43):
Thank you for listening to this episode of She
Changed History.
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She Changed history@gmail.com.
You know what it's like.
Yeah.
You go to a party and the nextday you're exhausted.
Yeah.
And you're thinking about allthe things that happened.
Or if you're me, you're thinkingabout all the stupid things you
said thinking oh hundredpercent.
Oh, so he doing like the dogversion of that?
He's going out.
I hope so.
Yeah.
I hope he's he seemed happythough, so fingers crossed.
All works out.
We'll see how we go.
Oh, speaking of dogs, Ted is inthe room with me.
(00:30):
He's sleeping.
Hey, Ted.
We've just been on a big walk,but yay.
If he starts being obnoxious,then we'll have, is it okay if
we pause and I'll stick himoutside?
Of course.
Hopefully he's flat.
I've never seen Ted beobnoxious.
Wow, that's a miracle.
You think you talk about it likeit's a daily appearance, but
I've never witnessed.
I've never witnessed it.
I've never witnessed.
(00:51):
Vicky, I could tell you.
Next time you come round, have alook at every single pair of
shoes in my house.
Literally every single pair ofshoes, he's left his mark.
He's yeah.
Love him.
are you ready for a story?
Yes, ma'am.
Let's go.
Oh, let's go.
hi Kara.
Hi Vicki.
How are you?
(01:11):
Yes, I am well.
Thank you.
The sun is shining.
Ooh, it's spring.
Woo.
We're inside.
I have a window.
How about you?
Yeah.
We've got luscious blue skiesand greenery to look at as well
as this.
So it'll be a fun sesh.
Welcome to She Change History.
We have a story for you todayand.
(01:31):
It's particularly, I would liketo think it's a very carra and
Vicki story because it's onethat I've been wanting to do
ever since we went to London andhad our day trip.
Oh.
The, which museum was it Tate?
It was Tate, wasn't it?
It was, yes.
Tate Britain that we went to thewrong Tate, but it was Tate
Britain.
(01:52):
We went to Tate Britain and theyhad basically an exhibition of
women who were written out ofhistory in the art world.
And there was so many wasn'tthere?
And we were like, we'll have todo one for the pod.
And I've managed to get round toone, which is very exciting.
That's amazing.
So here we go.
Got a little intro for you.
So picture this, we're in aVictorian art auction at the air
(02:15):
thick with the hushed excitementof wealthy collectors.
The auctioneer's voice is arapid staccato as he's trying to
squeeze every last shilling outof the bidders.
And then there's Thomas Lawry, aBritish art dealer, and he's
just laid down a hefty 4,500pounds for a Franz Hall's great
painting called the Carousingcouple.
(02:37):
So think rosy, cheeks.
Lots of merriment, very tn seen.
This painting is, it's veryjolly, very well sought after.
But here is where it getsinteresting Later when the drama
of the auctions died down.
The buyer discovers the faint,almost hidden signature beneath
one of the figures feet.
An ornate J with a little lpeeking out looks a little bit
(03:01):
like a shooting star, and thatshooting star belongs to a
different artist altogether.
Not the great Hal's friends.
That we've just paid through thenose for.
Can you imagine Thomas Lori'sface?
He's just shout out a fortunefor this painting, thinking it's
one of the greatest artists inthe world, and to find out it's
the mark of another painter.
(03:22):
But not only that, it's the markof a woman painter.
You could just feel his blood.
Boiling.
Oh.
And this is the story of JudithLaer and how her fortune got
mis-sold.
Wow.
Interesting.
Oh, that was very cinematic.
Dramatized.
Thank you.
(03:42):
Thank you.
It took a little while.
Loved it.
Sources today are Britannica, ofcourse.
Art news a lot of art websites.
There's a national museum ofwomen's art.
I used an article from them thatwas really good.
The Smithsonian has covered thisstory as well.
And there's a few other littlearticles that will pop in the
show notes.
So we need to rewind a bitfurther.
(04:04):
So the auction was in the 18hundreds.
We need to rewind all the way to1609, and we need to go to the
Netherlands where our storytakes place.
Judith Lisa is born and she isthe eighth child of a couple
called Jan Wils.
And Rin Jaspers, D-R-I-G-N.
The brood actually rebrandthemself in a way.
(04:27):
'cause I think in Europeancountries you don't necessarily
take your husband's last name.
You keep your last name.
But they did eventually adoptthe name Laer because they had a
brewery.
And that brewery was calledLester or Lone Star.
That's what that means.
Oh.
And they lived comfortablyuntil, like many of our stories
(04:49):
bankruptcy hits in 1625.
And it was around that time thatJudith, young lady at that point
And her siblings were put towork basically to help cover the
family expenses.
Now we're in a crucial age inthe Netherlands and in Dutch
culture, and that is calledDutch Golden Age Have you heard
of that?
That kind of era.
(05:09):
I'm familiar with some of theDutch work.
My mother and I, when we were inWashington, DC went to see a
talk about the Dutch Masters andreally?
Yeah.
There's also some novels thatI've read that are set around
that period, like the girl withthe pearl earing and so on.
So yeah, it's something I love.
I'm very interested.
Pitch in it's a period in Dutchhistory that is around the 17th
(05:32):
century, and it is particularlyduring and after the later part
of the 80 years war, which isthe war that gave Dutch
independence.
So the Dutch Republic.
It became really prosperous as anation and their key areas were
trading science and art.
Art was their biggest, one oftheir biggest exports.
There was lots of large scalekind of migration after the war.
(05:57):
And there was also a sharp.
It describes it here as a sharpbreak, but a sharp break with
the old monarchist and Catholiccultural traditions, which meant
that they were in thisresurgence of life phase as a
culture.
They were quite, I guess theother way of thinking.
It's like new age and hippieskind of thing.
Just like a little bit alternateloosening up, and they were
(06:19):
reinventing themselves as anation.
And because of this this thentranslated into Dutch art and.
The painting of religioussubjects.
Stories and fables of the Biblethat dropped really quickly and
lots of new types of art camethrough, including things like
portraits.
Landscape, seascape, steellives, just lots of different
(06:42):
types and it was huge.
I can't explain the vast volumeof, ah, they were churning out
as a nation.
It was really fascinating.
It's like a prolific time andJudith right in the center of it
basically.
And because of this, it's notsurprising that.
She trained to be an artist.
It's not a hundred percent howshe trained.
(07:04):
There's two kind of schools ofthought.
How she trained.
One was under Fran's de Grabberwho is probably most likely
because He already had a femalein his workshop, which was his
daughter Maria.
Oh.
So it was, he was quite open towomen training and so you could
see how that would attractJudith because yeah, she's like
(07:26):
me.
Safe space.
Safe space.
On the other hand, you've gotthe Great who is Franz house,
who is a really well knownpainter and you can see.
Similarities in their work alittle bit.
I'll go onto that a little bitmore later.
But either way, Judith trainsand she's very good.
She tended to focus mostly onportraits, either portraits of
(07:50):
people, or genre painting.
Do you know what genre paintingis?
No.
So that is the idea that youjust paint scenes from.
Ordinary everyday life.
So it could be work or play butthey're done in a very realistic
manner and they tend to be quiteintimate.
Whether it's like a a pub sceneor making music parties cooking
(08:15):
all this kind of like justfamily life kind of stuff.
And she was known in particularfor making them really joyful,
which is really nice.
Yeah.
A little bit more about, like Iwas saying, the prolificness of
this period.
It was roughly estimated thatover 1.3 million pictures were
painted in 20 years, from 1640to 1660.
(08:39):
Oh gosh.
Which is an insane amount, isn'tit?
Yeah they're banging'em out.
They're firing'em off like agun.
That's crazy.
And it's because people wantedthem.
So there were large fairs peoplewere.
There's a demand for them,basically.
Is this like a status purchase?
I have a bit of money coming inbecause trade is going well and
(08:59):
to show my good taste andwealth.
I'm gonna buy a portrait or I'mgonna buy this charming scene of
domestic life.
I have no idea.
I think maybe it was like, Iimagine it's exported because.
The 1.3 million.
That's a lot.
(09:19):
Lot.
I don't, I think you're gonnahave to, it's a lot.
Just focus on different markets.
One in every room, two in thebathroom.
Yeah, that's a lot.
Even if you're just selling toyour, yeah.
If you're only just selling toyour own people.
So I think there must have beensome exporting involved because
also it was really well soughtafter like foreigners really.
Were perceptive to this goldenage and they were very
interested in it.
(09:39):
And, and like you said, it is astatus thing.
'cause how many, like we sawwhen we went around that museum,
how many of those were likeowned by King Charles?
And you were like, sorry, what?
It's King Charles owning thisfor Yeah, he specked them all
up, didn't he?
He on eBay, he really did.
Clicking away.
Outbidding.
Sniping those auction.
Yeah.
I was really surprised at that.
(10:00):
So maybe it's a mix.
But Judith's in it.
So she's at the age of 24 andthis just shows how good she
was.
'cause just remember that volumeI just spoke about.
She became one of the firstwomen to join the Har and
Painters Guild of St.
Luke, which is very cool.
It's very prestige.
It's members only, and she wasone of the first women's skin.
(10:21):
I think she was like the firstor second.
I bet that ruffled somefeathers.
That just shows how good she is.
Yeah.
So shortly, just to give you anidea of what you needed to get
in the Guild.
So shortly before she joined theGuild in 1633, they enacted a
new charter with members'requirements so to be considered
eligible, you'd have had to havethree years of experience like
(10:44):
study, and you'd have had tohave been an apprentice and like
a paid apprentice for one.
Okay, so she had to work hardfor that.
not everybody can do that.
And she became so successfulafter joining the Guild that she
even opened her own workshop andstarted teaching others how to
pay.
Wow.
(11:04):
That's awesome.
Yeah.
And this kind of shows, I.
I've kept this tiny story inhere because I think it's a good
foundational piece.
What comes later?
She opened her own workhouse,not an easy thing to do, and she
had trainees, students comingin.
One of those students was calledWilliam Ster.
And he left her after one weekbecause he had landed a spot.
(11:31):
At Franz Howell's workshop, soOh, Franz Howells poached her
assistant, basically.
Wow.
He was meant, yeah.
This student was meant to bethere to hold Judith and she was
gonna train him in return.
That's what, that's how thatworks.
And Franz poached him.
I bet that was an awkwardconversation.
What a little pip squeakthinking He can absolutely swan
(11:53):
in and swan out.
Ooh, I'm cross.
Yes.
Because the reason you'recrossed is'cause this is a
breach of procedure.
This is not okay.
Yes.
It's not nice because they'reboth part of the guild as well.
So they're meant to be part ofthe same circles, right?
You meant to respect each otherin those circles.
And the move had been givenwithout the guild's permission.
Oh.
So it was completely naughty andinstead of letting it slide, she
(12:16):
had the same reaction as you.
And she took it up with a guildand made a complaint against Hal
and she demanded that a quarterof his, the student's fees,
'cause you had to pay tuitionbe.
Refunded to her.
She was like he's just gone.
That's not fair.
And I've paid for that.
Which was quite a big deal backin the day because not only you
just going up against a fellowGud member, but you're going up
(12:37):
against Fran's house who, who isvery famous.
He's a very well known painter.
He's known as father of thisgolden age, so he is big dog.
People recognize him.
It, it feels like he could havehad any assistant he wanted.
Yes.
And maybe him hiring thisparticular one feels a little
(12:58):
bit personal.
Like, why would you do that?
Yes.
That's nasty.
Which kind of leads into thefacts that, they had a history
and there is this idea that theyhad a history because
stylistically Judith's Worksdoes resemble that of Fran's
house.
So either she admired him or shehad trained under him, but we
(13:20):
don't know.
Her brushwork was quite free andspontaneous.
She favored similar types ofsubject to Hals and often did
these like energetic Mary scenesthat I spoke about earlier.
And when she was training, sheactually did copy one of his
paintings, which was called TheJester, Which suggests she was
in how's Alia, which isinteresting.
(13:44):
But that's as far as that goes.
There's no other claims to that.
It is just that she may havetrained under him, and if you
train under someone, you'regonna have a similar style.
To them.
Yeah I think there's also anelement in art sometimes of give
the people what they want.
So she's a commercial artist ina time where there is a
dominant, popular.
(14:06):
Style.
It seems quite natural, like inmusic, like in any arts, there's
a rash of television shows thatare all about a certain thing.
Every artist is probably goingto have echoes of halls if he's
the leading figure in thatmovement.
Absolutely.
Same.
I'm defending my girl here.
Come on.
And you're quite right too,because there's not many so
(14:29):
women in the.
In the Dutch golden age, there'slike a handful.
I found maybe eight names.
So it's probably not jumping toconclusions to assume there
might have been some misogynygoing on in there if he poached
her.
Oh you do shocked me.
Sorry.
I'm sorry to be crude.
(14:49):
Yeah.
Other names around the age ofjust to name check a few people.
Clara Peters, Rachel Roush,Maria Sch Chen.
These are all female artists ofthe Golden Age, but honestly
there are a hand, like thinkingof those numbers earlier.
1.3 million paintings.
You need a lot of painters topaint.
Those paintings.
Only eight were female.
Wow.
Around eight.
(15:11):
Yeah, it's all about scale,isn't it?
Yes.
Yeah.
I cannot do the math in my head,but in percentage terms, that is
woeful.
Yes.
So like I said, so LA's got thisbeautiful art technique.
She's very well she's good atwhat she does'cause she's in the
guild.
Just another little.
Tidbits of how she painted.
It was suggested that she worksout her compositions as she
(15:34):
paints.
So it's not here's a trace andthat's exactly what I'm gonna
do.
A few of her works had laterbeen studied by x-ray machines
and infrared and that you couldsee that she'd tried out a few
compositions, first rejectedthem and painted over them,
which is quite common inpaintings.
For example, in her selfportrait from 1630, it revealed
(15:54):
that.
So she painted a picture of herpainting a picture, the painting
that she paints in this paintingwas originally a a girl with red
parted lips, but she paintedover that to a fiddler and it,
it sounds a lot more joyful,doesn't it?
And a lot more jaunty comparedto this quite small little girl
with red parted lips.
That sounds quite haunting incomparison she has been known to
(16:17):
change paintings as she goes.
Her paintings also often havelayered me meanings,
particularly around Vice and thetwo.
So for example, in the lastdrop, which is a 1629 painting,
she has two young men on adrunken night out.
A bit jolly, but they're joinedby like A skeleton.
(16:38):
Which is quite haunting.
Lads.
Lads.
Oh, wait a minute.
Oh wait, I might die ofalcoholism.
That was the great guys.
Yeah.
Okay.
So some of that biblicalmoralizing is still coming
through in these paintings.
Yeah.
Consequences.
Were still there.
Even though we were talkingabout drinking games, music, and
(17:00):
it was quite common for her inher paintings anyway, to have a
double meaning.
Yeah.
The majority of her work waspainted between 1629 and 1635
because in the 1636 she gotmarried to another painter.
She married him and then they'dmoved to aunt.
Amsterdam when she was 26, shethen had five children, so she
(17:22):
was busy.
Sadly out of the five, only twoof them survived to adulthood.
So quite a rough, but thatagain, that just shows the
period we're in.
Yeah.
And.
It's thought that she stoppedpainting, but actually her
husband was a painter.
There were still workshopsthere.
She trained for three years.
That's quite elite to say.
(17:42):
She never painted again.
They have found one illustrationof a tulip.
Which is like a bot autonomoustulip.
So it's, really detailed that isdated after she had her children
in 1643.
And it is more than nightly thatshe still assisted her husband
with his art because this wastheir main source of income.
You're a commercial, you wannahelp.
(18:05):
So yeah, just a little, justFYI.
So in November, 1659 Judith andhas her husband actually
prepared a joint will thatsuggests that, there's something
going on there, maybe one ofthem's ill.
And actually it turns out thatJudith did die three months
after that will.
It shows.
(18:25):
Foreshadowing there.
She died at the age of 50 andshe's buried on a farm in
Hemstead which has since beenbuilt over.
So they don't really know thelocation of her grave anymore.
But all this kind of leads intothe next part of the story is
that, it goes a bit quieter.
So her husband dies a decadelater and in his, in the will
(18:50):
then because the estate getssorted out, is that they'd
amassed obviously a huge amountof paintings over their
lifetime.
And these paintings were thensold off and, this sprinkled I
guess over society.
They just.
Get passed on and these things,I don't have paintings.
I dunno what happens to this.
(19:12):
I'm picturing the auction youdescribed earlier that you Yeah,
that kind, I think that kind ofthing.
That kind of thing.
But earlier, obviously hundredsof years earlier, so following
her death in 1660, sheessentially disappears from the
art world, right?
Because either her works areleft or sold on, or haven't.
Been noted or recorded properly.
(19:34):
But it is really important tonote that she has a really
distinctive signature, which isher initials, which is j and l,
and when she draws themtogether, it looks like a star,
because that's what her lastname means.
And she had put this on all herworks, sometimes really small,
like size of the thinker.
Now small and not always in thesame place, but they are on the
(19:55):
artworks.
So like I said, then the storygoes quiet as it did for a lot
of women of that time.
It goes quiet for, I'm talkingcenturies here.
I think she just gets completelywritten out of the art world
despite contributing to it.
And none of the women Imentioned earlier are cited
throughout history.
(20:15):
So for example, there was in adefinite record compiled by male
art historians in 1908.
It was a catalog of works ofDutch painters in the 17th
century.
That is a specific catalog,right?
No women were mentioned in thatcatalog at all.
(20:36):
That's really interesting and Iwonder whether it was a
deliberate step, a choice.
Or whether it was that you don'tknow to look for what you can't
imagine exists, so they, itmight not have even occurred to
them, Hey, there must have beena few women working in this
(20:59):
field, or whether they knew andthought those are lesser works.
So the National Gallery of ArtDescriber the, so sassy, the
Golden Age of Dutch painting wasone of the most extraordinary
phenomena in the history ofvisual arts, but the men
concluded that women weren't inthat.
(21:20):
Lovely.
So over time she, Judith hascompletely forgotten her records
exist of her because she didmarry.
So there is a legal document,but other than that, we don't
really know.
Anything else about her?
So her work carried on beingtraded, sold, exhibited.
And this brings us then to ourauctions at the start of the
(21:42):
story in about 1892 1893, and.
That auction happens.
Thomas buys this painting,thinks it's from the incredible
France, how who has made itthrough the centuries.
People know who he is and isabsolutely fuming that it's an
unknown artist.
And then later it's discoveredthat the artist is then female.
(22:02):
So very upset and feels likehe's wasted 4,500 pounds, which
is a lot back then.
That's a lot of money.
It is a lot of money.
And what this does is itinspires Dutch art collector and
historian Cornelius Hofs Derubecause he's the one who figured
out that this painting wasMisattributed.
So he was the one who figuredout that there was a little
(22:27):
star, which we know is Judah'ssignature underneath.
The painting and it had beenpainted over.
And he was then, this can't bethe only one I'm gonna start
researching and looking at.
So he goes off and that, that'sbasically some of his life work
is finding out which paintingshave been mis misattributed.
(22:47):
So not only had they paintedover Judith's monogram of the J
and the L, they had also thenadded Fran, hows.
Oh, so okay, this takes onanother, yeah, complexion,
right?
Because this is the guy whostole her assistant back in the
day.
So not only this guy and tookchances in her lifetime and is
(23:09):
still taking from her in depth.
Pretty friends guy, honestly.
And then also another area isthat someone had literally
erased Judith from history.
They had literally erased hersignature.
Oh.
And painted over the top of it.
Isn't that sad?
It's, yeah.
Like I said, Cornelius goes offand he writes this
(23:30):
groundbreaking essay aboutLester as the creator of this
oil painting.
And in that period, he thenattributes six to seven more
paintings that he thinks arehers as well, that have been
misattributed to Hal's.
So he finds these paintings, hediscovers the monogram
underneath, and, by that time,this F has fake, it's not really
(23:54):
fake, but falsely attributed hadthen entered the Louvre.
Oh.
So it was already in the Louvreby the time that he's put all
his research together.
So what that says though is thatthe quality of the work is
unassailable.
'cause irrespective of whosesignature is on the little
bottom corner.
(24:15):
They're not hanging up any oldta like they're discerning of
that after the leave.
Yeah.
It's fairly high standard, soFor sure.
Okay.
And the leave kept it.
They kept it and then theylisted it as Judith Laer.
Outstanding, which is away.
Big points for Cornelius.
Big points for the Louvre.
Everybody's stepping up here.
(24:35):
Love it.
It's very good.
The guy who bought the painting,so Thomas Laurie.
He was still very upset abouthis 4,500 pounds.
Took it to court and basicallydid the guy who sold it for
fraud he won that court case andhe managed to get a 25% refund.
(24:56):
Oh, so the going rate for apoached art atelier assistant is
also the going rate for a falseartwork, 25%.
Oh yeah, that's your refund.
Whatever's going on, they'reconsistent.
I think that is consistent.
Fair in 1926, a little bitfurther on another 35 paintings
(25:17):
were identified to be Judith'sand if recent histories, any
more indication there were gonnabe loads more in store because
we know how prolific it was atthe time.
There's another example of thishappening to her.
So another example of erasureand that is her painting, the
boy playing the flute, which shepainted in the 1930s.
(25:37):
It's basically a picture of ayoung musician who is looking
towards an unseen window, andthat painting was owned by the
Swedish Royal family Wow.
For 150 years.
And even though she'd put herstar in it, she'd put the J and
the L it was thought to be hers.
(25:58):
And then it was finallyattributed to her after this
scandal and kept myunderstanding is to see it kept,
it was kept in the royal family,which was really good on top of
that.
Now I know you said earlier,conius.
Cornelius, there is just alittle bit of, a little bit of a
gripe I had at Cornelius, andI'm not taken away from the good
(26:19):
things he did.
But when I was reading, therewas this real kind of idea of
victim blaming happeningthroughout this.
So they were saying it'sJudith's fault.
The reasons that she wasmisattributed were, are often
blamed on her.
For example, she left a smallbody of work behind and she had
no major commissions in herlife.
(26:41):
So it is, she didn't really tryhard.
Of course we're gonna get itwrong.
She barely even tried.
And also her monogram, her fancylittle star.
That makes it very hard toidentify her actually.
And that actually causes us alot of confusion when we're
trying to work this out.
Yes.
And do your job.
Don't come at me to paint overit.
(27:02):
Don't paint over it.
Like I, I think maybe if we'relooking to apportion blame, we
should look to the fraudsterswho went hall's painting self,
or a packet.
Paint over that starimmediately.
Oh my God.
God, I could not believe it whenI was reading this article.
I was like, I dare say, even ifshe had a giant chunky, neon
signature you know those littles's that you drew in school, if
(27:24):
you know what I'm talking about?
One, yeah.
Even if she'd written Judas inthat they're paint over that.
'cause they want the moneythat's not on her.
It's not on her.
And I was absolutely livid.
The article was by Art Newswhere I found that.
However.
Since the dramatic course casescholars have been adding to
what Cornelius started what hebegan more than a century ago,
(27:47):
contributing more attributionsto the number of paintings that
are now considered to be Judassince the 1970.
She has been included in surveysof women artists, and she's also
had A solo museum exhibition.
Most of her works are inmuseums.
Their collections are on view,and most importantly, they are
not kept in storage.
(28:09):
Judith's story highlightsfemales artists contributions.
Not seeing them as muses, butseeing them as creators in their
own right.
Her story is a crucial turningpoint in writing art historical
records.
And the National Museum Women'sArt Director, Susan Fisher
Sterling, is very committed tothis.
She's very committed toexhibitions that challenge
(28:31):
traditional views, expanding ourthinking about art history and
what happened in the past.
So there is work going on to fixthis, but it is wild that it
even happened in the firstplace.
And that is the story of Juda laEaster.
That is exciting to, to knowthat work's going on and that we
(28:54):
aren't just resting on the lazyassumptions.
We are actually going back andusing, the research to, to show
these pockets.
And by really odd coincidencethis week I've been writing a,
an episode about ArtemisiaGenki, who is another one of the
artists we saw at the Tate.
(29:15):
And, it'll be super cool when wedo that one to see where these
things time and Yeah, like thekind of things that happen to
each of them in terms of theircareer and their work and their
viewpoint is really interestingto hear.
Yeah.
That's so exciting.
Yeah.
I feel happy for Judith that herwork is now out there and, I'm
(29:38):
thinking.
In the National Gallery in DCwhen we saw that talk about the
Dutch Masters, one of herpaintings, the loot player is
there.
So the one that is in theWashington Gallery is a self
portrait of her painting.
That's the one you described.
(29:58):
Oh, the one with the x-ray?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So she's.
Smiling joyfully and paintingAnother one of her well-known,
it's a, the man playing thefiddle?
Yeah.
Oh, that's the one you weredescribing.
She looks so chill.
She's leaning back.
She's got the, oh, you justcaught me doing the thing I love
(30:18):
to do.
It's so gorgeous.
She looks like someone who's intheir element and is happy with
life.
And if we could all do a bit ofthat, then yes, please.
Oh yes, absolutely.
We should all be so lucky.
Yeah.
And we are so lucky that herwork was eventually
rediscovered.
I feel I was a bit harsh onCornelius, but perhaps to
Cornelius.
And also, if that monogram was amale monogram, it wouldn't have
(30:40):
been that hard to find.
You just know, if that was a,like John Paul Lester.
They would've been like, oh, itwasn't that hard actually.
You just know.
I know.
We all know.
And I think the reasons that shebacked away from the work and
there wasn't more of a body ofwork to support that.
(31:01):
Being a well-known signature arefundamentally sexist, that she
had children and because thatwas woman's work and when you
had kids, anything else went outthe window.
Then of course she doesn't have.
The same body of art.
Yeah.
That's it.
She simply hadn't got the time.
There are other factors in themix that are also not good and
(31:27):
also not her fault.
Yeah.
Oh, thanks very much forlistening.
That was so interesting.
And yeah, just joyful work.
And yeah.
Amazing.
audio2663295054 (31:43):
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