July 22, 2025 • 37 mins
The Daring Life of Texas Guinan: Bootlegger, Entertainer, and Hollywood Star
In this episode of 'She Changed History,' hosts Vicky and Cara dive into the adventurous life of Mary Louise Cecilia 'Texas' Guinan. 1920s America, Prohibition and fashion! Born in Waco, Texas, Guinan pursued her dreams of entertainment from a young age, transitioning from a vaudeville performer to a Hollywood star and nightclub hostess. Despite operating during the prohibition era, she ran illegal yet highly popular speakeasies, often escaping legal consequences with charm and backing from organized crime. The episode offers a nuanced look at her dual identity as both beloved entertainer and controversial figure in American history.
Sources are:
Encyclopedia Britannica
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Texas-Guinan
Texas State Historical Association and Waco, Texas history blog
https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/guinan-mary-louise-cecilia-texas
https://wacohistory.org/items/show/216
Vogue Magazine
https://www.vogue.com/article/texas-guinan-20th-century-actress-nasty-woman
Oxford American magazine
https://oxfordamerican.org/oa-now/texas-guinan-california-first-cowgirl
Columbia University’s Women Film Pioneers Project
https://wfpp.columbia.edu/pioneer/ccp-texas-guinan/
https://www.robertloerzel.com/2024/09/02/texas-guinans-bang-up-green-mill-show/
One Summer: America, 1927 by Bill Bryson
00:00 Introduction and Casual Banter
00:44 Dogs
02:19 Podcast Rituals and Showbiz Talk
02:58 Introducing Texas Guinan
04:04 Early Life and Ambitions
08:14 Vaudeville and Broadway Journey
11:33 Hollywood Stardom and Prohibition Era
18:52 The Rise of Speakeasies
19:39 Texas Guinan: The Shrewd Businesswoman
20:33 The Glamorous and Scandalous Clubs
25:03 The Dark Side of the Nightlife
27:03 The Legal Battles and Public Persona
30:16 The Final Act: Guinan's Legacy
33:53 Conclusion and Reflections
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
video1081128666 (00:08):
Maybe we can do it in two bites.
If it cos out, then obviouslywe'll take a break and Yeah, I
can stop and then go again.
Sort that out.
Ready?
I am ready.
Hi Cara.
Hi Vicki.
How are you doing?
I am very well considering.
Yeah, we're doing all right.
Considering.
Yeah, considering what are weconsidering as we weigh up how
(00:31):
well you are considering?
My sweat to skin ratio.
Really?
That's what we're considering.
It's extremely high for everyoneright now, but it's okay.
My God, no one can smell me.
That's the beauty of podcast.
There's no smell of vision.
So, uh, we're good.
I think we're gonna go walk thedog after this'cause he is it's
so, um, it's so hard for them.
It's so hard for papa.
(00:51):
This is in the same boat?
Yeah, same boat.
We've done some sniff gamesinstead of a walk this morning.
Oh, that's cute.
Well, I love Ted on his sniff Heloves, he loves to sniff.
He's uh, he would be veryoffended at being called games,
but Yeah.
And you know, is jam happy towalk when it's dark outside?
Does he get freaked out?
Yeah, he's fine.
No, no.
(01:11):
Freak out.
He, um.
He's very easily pleased.
Jumbo.
He really Aw is very minimal.
So he's just a bit like we'veonly been out once because also
they can't detect the heat canthey?
They're rubbish at being like,well, now I'm too hot.
They just can't deal I don'tknow.
This might be that thing of dogsbeing like their owners and
you're quite chill and quitecontented.
(01:33):
So jam is, whereas Ted.
Walks into a hot room and looksat me with complete disdain.
Does he?
And just kind of goes, oh, likeflux over on his side.
Like, Ugh.
But resentment, not like, noteven like upset, like he's angry
at me.
Yeah.
Like I did this.
You are the controller of theweather.
Yeah.
But would jam just go out thereand be like, yeah, let's walk.
(01:55):
I don't care.
It's really annoying.
Oh my gosh.
Because it's so unsafe and he'lllike, want to play in the
garden.
'cause we'll have the door openall day so he in, in and out.
But like, he wants to play andit's like, well, no, it's too
hot, Bubba.
Like, you, you can't play in theOh.
He'll be looking forward to hislittle nighttime outing then.
Yeah, just a tiny one.
(02:15):
Just a, a poop and a wee and astretch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I do after a podcastrecording.
Oh my God.
We all do it.
We all, every podcast you everhear.
A poop and awareness.
Every single one.
That's the secret behind the,behind the showbiz.
Behind the showbiz.
You've got your curtain backspeaking.
Your beautiful man, I have isn'tthat?
(02:37):
Isn't that better?
That is showbiz.
I feel that back in the team.
And today's lady is quite a tazzkind of gal, so it's good that
we're bringing the, bringingthe.
The finesse, she'd be very crossif we didn't.
I'm very Should we do it?
Yeah, let's go for it.
(02:58):
And learn about a woman whokind.
Personifies some extremes inAmerican history and some
extremes, maybe even of ournational character.
So I thought to start off with,uh, there's a quote here from
the lady herself, which I thinkgives a little bit of a flavor
(03:18):
of who she is.
Um, quite, I like noise,rhinestone heels, customers,
plenty of attention and redvelvet bathing suits.
I smoke like a five alarm fire.
I eat an aspirin every nightbefore I go to bed.
I call every man.
I don't know, Fred.
And they love it.
I guess that settles mypersonality.
(03:41):
Oh, I know, right?
She's immediately, you're like,yes, yes, please.
So this is a quote from a womancalled Texas Gwen.
Um.
Texas wasn't her birth name, notSurpris.
I was gonna say I surprised toname, but get's like a direct
name.
We'll get to, we'll get kind of,yeah.
(04:02):
Yeah.
It's a bit of a showbiz touch.
So, um, she was born in a smalltown in Texas.
Little doesn't take a huge leapto figure it out.
Um.
And from that humble beginning,she went on to, uh, the warm
embrace of a star on theHollywood Walk of Fame.
And along the way, she hadrun-ins with the law.
(04:24):
She hobnobbed with theluminaries of the jazz age.
Her life took place during oneof America's more strange and
lively periods.
Before now.
Um, so the kind of person whojust whirls through life with a
wink and a smile, we are goingto meet Texas g Guen.
(04:47):
Oh my gosh.
You can't wait.
And I've peppered with pictures,which, okay.
Hopefully we'll get to share onthe, socials.
Mm-hmm.
Uh.
The sources for today are theEncyclopedia Britannica, Texas
State Historical Association anda Waco, Texas History blog,
Vogue and Oxford AmericanMagazines and Columbia
(05:08):
University's Women Film PioneersProject.
Uh, there was also an article byan author called Robert Lal and.
I first heard of her in a bookcalled One Summer America 1927
by Bill Bryson, whichspectacular.
I can't say enough how much Ilove this book, but she was just
(05:30):
one of the characters.
So she herself was born MaryLouise, Cecilia Gwen in 1884 in
Waco, Texas.
And her parents were Irishimmigrants.
You probably are aware the Irishfaced a lot of racial prejudice
in America at that time.
(05:51):
Um, Catholics in particular.
So they.
On a ranch, and her father was agrocer.
Um, Mary Louise was encouragedto learn some traditional kind
of Texas Western skills likeriding and roping cattle, which
she just took to, she wasreally, really adept, um, less
(06:13):
adept at school.
Really, she was not veryinterested in being a student,
so, okay.
She was much more the type tokind of, every class has got
this person in it who disruptsthe class, makes wise cracks and
makes everybody laugh.
And this was despite the factthat her.
Humble, hardworking parents werepaying to send her to a posh
(06:34):
private Catholic.
Oh, no way.
School way.
Oh yeah.
So, and have been an immigrant.
That's a big deal.
Yeah.
They wouldn't have been tooimpressed.
Yeah, I'm sure.
But, um, by the time she reachedthe age of 16, she was just
like, you know, this is not forme.
I want to be an entertainer.
I, I'm gonna chase that dream,so, oh my gosh.
(06:57):
Yeah.
But how many 16 year Yeah.
Okay.
Alright.
And taking that risk, she movedto Chicago, which is thousands
of miles away from Waco, Texas,and her goal there was to study
music.
So bear in mind, this person is16 to 18 years old in this span
(07:19):
of time she's doing this study.
During that period she met,married and then divorced.
A successful newspaper artist.
I don't know what the agedifference was, but if he was up
and running in a career, youhave to imagine.
Yeah, absolutely.
But anyway, she had this likewhirlwind marriage.
Okay.
It wasn't for her.
She also learned that maybesinging wasn't necessarily her
(07:44):
strong suit because No, yeah.
Her voice apparently was.
So, so, but okay.
She just like, really?
Yeah, just like mine.
We are all, we've got what we'vegot.
And just like us, she waswilling to kind of work hard and
make the most of what she hadand just enjoy it.
(08:05):
But because of who she was, shesort of wouldn't take no for an
answer.
And she found work as a chorusgirl, So, um.
Do, do you know aboutvaudeville?
Is that a concept that inBritain it, there's a little
quote here.
If you read it, I think it'll befamiliar to you, but you call it
a different name.
I think.
a light entertainment the mid1890s until the.
(08:29):
Early 1930s that consisted of 10to 15 unrelated acts featuring
magicians, acrobats, trainedanimals, jugglers and dancers.
Uh, I think we'd call that.
A variety show.
That's it.
That's, I couldn't remember thephrase Yes.
Variety show.
(08:49):
Exactly.
And you still have that now in,in a little bit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We have, um, call it?
Royal Variety Show.
That's the main one.
Britain's Got never dies.
Yeah.
Um, also sounds a bit circus,doesn't it?
It sounds, yes, exactly.
Just a bit of spectacle and alittle bit of everything
(09:12):
together, but it suited MaryLouise because she wasn't.
Trying to put it in a respectfulway.
She wasn't like naturallygifted, but she had so much
charisma and that kind of enenvironment allowed her to
interact directly with theaudience and charm them.
And she would tell them storiesabout the Wild West and probably
(09:35):
some of the stories might'vebeen true.
But she would make them laugh.
She would tease them, and shekind of cultivated her persona
and I think she had a lot ofwhat we would call now banter.
She was really good.
I like that.
I like how it's hard not to, soshe's out there working, the
(09:55):
crowds having a grand old timeand traveling about, so that
vaudeville review style ofperformance would go place to
place to place.
Then ultimately it brought herto New York City, and that was
by now it's 1906.
This is the.
Absolute epicenter of the liveentertainment industry.
(10:17):
Um, Broadway is where it's allhappening.
So she put her sights on gettinga role in Broadway and worked at
it, did not give up.
And eventually, in 1913 thathappened for her.
She was in a Broadway role, butjust like a bit part, nothing.
You know, I'm not being finneyto get on.
(10:38):
That's not easy.
That's not easy now, alone thenthat's like, and to stick it out
as well.
Yeah.
I mean to stick it out for what,seven years and just keep
plugging away without any realoutside reinforcement.
Yeah.
That you're any good.
You, you need to be, you need tobe a good dancer entertainer You
(10:59):
don't just get on You don't, andI think you also need to have a
really thick skin to repeatedlybe told Yeah.
You're not quite lead starpotential material.
Yeah.
And to just go, fine, I'll give,I'll do whatever you give me.
Fine.
I'm just, I just wanna be in it.
Like the ego gets put to oneside, fine.
(11:19):
But it, it worked for herbecause she is in this Broadway
show and a talent scout fromHollywood came a knock in.
This is like right place, righttime.
Um, this is the time in theentertainment industry in the
States when Hollywood is hittingits golden age of silent films.
(11:42):
And to kind of give you an idealike they are firing off these
movies, the supply cannot keepup with the demand.
People are hungry forentertainment and, um.
The production of movies washappening at a rate of about
double the age of Netflix andstuff.
You, you think the demand rightnow is quite high, high double
(12:05):
it.
So they are just turning outthis stuff and with her, her
cute looks and her roping andriding skills.
Oh, I see.
She was a bit of a specialistact.
Yeah.
So that.
Set of skills is how she got herpermanent nickname of Texas.
(12:26):
She, she took that as her likeHollywood name and that was it
for the rest of her life.
Oh, I see.
I get it now.
It's I love it.
Yeah, right.
So yeah, Tex, Texas, um, text,they, they started featuring her
in movies where she was sort oflike the central attraction in
about 1918.
Okay.
She is iconically said to havebeen the first movie Cowgirl.
(12:51):
So, you know, yeah, I see that.
Yeah.
It's a big, big deal.
Um.
There's a cute movie poster herewith her all.
Oh, love all Gued up and her forheaven sake, out with her guns.
She looks just like Jesse fromToy Story, she?
Absolutely adorable.
Exactly.
Yeah, absolutely.
So she cracked on with this,right, for 15 years and in that
(13:15):
15 year period she made nearly55 O movies.
So I mean, how long were thesemovies?
Are we talking like for threeminutes?
I think that they were, I thinkthey were between half an hour
and an hour.
I can't say for sure.
Yeah.
But in era, that era.
But at the time, with thetechnology, with the, and their
(13:36):
interspersing text cards mm-hmm.
The little boards, so, you know,these are, it's a different
thing.
Thing.
It's still a big deal.
It's still a big deal.
It's, it's still a big deal.
But she was hardworking and.
Whilst doing all that, she alsocarried on doing some stage work
and thought, I know what wouldbe fun.
(13:58):
I can jump into hospitality aswell, because you know what
better environment for someonewho loves to be the center of
attention and for whom life isjust one big party.
She's like, let's do this.
So she started hostessingmanaging nightclubs and bringing
this like.
(14:19):
Hollywood glamor.
However, like her life timeline.
Intersects with a couple ofinteresting points in American
history, and the next thing thatcame along was prohibition.
So this was a time of challengeand she turned it to her
advantage.
But before we talk about thatmm-hmm.
(14:40):
Um, in case it's not like sortof broadly known, there's a
quote there that explainsprohibition in a nutshell.
The prohibition was the periodfrom 1920 to 1933 during which
the manufacturer transportationand sale of alcoholic beverages
was made illegal Oh, no boo foryou.
(15:02):
No booze for anyone.
Um, well, except Oh, unless yoube elect.
Yes.
So, once that act was in place,there was about a decade of time
when it stood as law and was itis, and you know, it took a
while to kind of like come upand it took a while to sort of
(15:22):
disintegrate, but it's still asolid decade of.
You know, from a modernperspective.
Yeah.
And this is countrywide bonkers,right?
Con countrywide with a couple ofnotable exceptions, but for the
purposes of this conversation,yes.
Okay.
Nationally.
Prohibition and there were thosewho still wanted to drink
(15:42):
alcohol, me.
And there were those, right?
Like all of us.
There were those who werefinding a way to sell it to
them.
And then there was the lawenforcement side of things that
was trying to squash that andsort of shut it down.
So just to give you an idea,what people who broke
prohibition law were, um, kindof looking down the barrel of.
(16:04):
If you had a first conviction,so it, it gets worse from here.
This is your entry level, uh,conviction for prohibition
offenses.
You could get a fine of up to athousand dollars, which is
$16,000 in today's money.
16,000.
16001st offense and orimprisonment for up to six
months.
My God.
(16:25):
So any business premises thatbreaks prohibition law.
Even a business where theproprietors had given their
customer a glass and some icefor their own liquor that they
snuck in.
Right.
That's an offense because youare facilitating someone
drinking alcohol.
(16:45):
So the um, the law enforcementcould come along and padlock
your door.
Literally.
I did know that.
Yeah.
They would padlock.
For a year.
Just so dramatic.
So it's so dramatic and it'slike, it's so counterintuitive
now, but you sort of think, oh.
Businesses failed restaurants,failed bars, nightclubs,
(17:07):
breweries, distilleries, the taxincome that would've come off of
the sale of that alcohol, theshipping companies, all the
people who worked in hospitalityout of work.
So it said, in one of thearticles I read, a quarter of a
million people lost theirlegitimate jobs overnight.
And this was while America wasalready in a mild recession and.
(17:30):
Heading towards the GreatDepression.
So was it a religious The, theperson who came up with it,
apparently as a child, a farmhand who was drunk, had stuck
him in the foot with apitchfork.
I remember this.
Yes.
It, it, alcohol is the root ofall evil and the, he was really,
(17:53):
really good at staying.
But how did he get the whole onmessage country insane.
I think he had a lot of bullyBoy mud slinging.
Techniques that he used to kindof frighten any opponents, and
people kind of got behind it.
They were like, oh yeah, thisis, oh my God, he's so clear.
It's, it's so persuasive becausehe, he didn't muddy the water.
(18:16):
He didn't pull in anything else.
Just this singular message.
Message one message, this willfix us.
This will make our nation greatagain.
Oh, no.
Oh, no.
Oh no.
Oh, no.
Um, so yes, and unfortunatelyfor him.
When the law circumscribes,personal liberty, there's always
(18:37):
somebody who sees that as anopportunity.
Yeah.
And so with the prohibition camethe rise of organized crime.
Mm-hmm.
Um, bootleggers, moonshiners,people who transported alcohol
illegally.
The theft of a few exempt formsof alcohol, such as the ones
that doctors were allowedbecause they were the medium
(18:59):
that medicine would be distilledinto.
Those things would be robbed,often violently, of course.
Um, and then you have.
The illegal nightclubs.
So you will have heard the termspeakeasies or speaks as
apparently, I feel weird sayingit.
Oh, oh, get this.
They were apparently also calleda beer flat.
(19:19):
A blind pig.
A blind tiger.
It's all very like day to day.
It's very strange.
I don't know if these things aretrue.
I'm just reading them.
I think so funny.
That's what a speakeasy easy is.
A speakeasy is an illegalalcohol venue.
Right?
It's like a little, it's like Cmillion vibe.
Yeah, like a little hidden clubthat you can go into and get a
drink.
And so now we come back toTexas, Gwen,'cause she, she's
(19:43):
that, she's there.
She's a shrewd businesswoman andshe's got a keen eye for fun.
And Americans during this timestill wanted fun.
Yeah, it was a dull time and shedid not care.
You know about breaking therules and the risks of fines,
(20:04):
the risks of imprisonment,whatever.
So I've got a quote here that Ithink explains her position
pretty well.
What Americans needed, judgeGwen was a place where they
could escape.
So she set up her clubs andbetween the hours at 10:00 PM
and 6:00 AM customers were freeto do as they pleased.
(20:24):
It's like a little naughty, alittle naughty do ghost.
Mm-hmm.
That, that's quite broad.
She's in there.
She's the hostess.
She's this powerhouse where eventhough it's kind of like a freer
age, the jazz age, women arestill not really having any kind
of legal parody.
(20:44):
They're sort of fighting to beheard, but she's out there
commanding attention, commandingrespect, and making these
illegal clubs the place to be.
Are you saying clubs are inplural?
She had more than one.
She did, she had a lot of ironsand a lot of fires, and she
would move about and Oh, I'm sojealous.
(21:05):
The show on the road.
Yeah.
Um, if you read Shrines of Gaityby Kate Atkinson Yes, I did.
Yeah.
You know, um, uh, ma.
Oh gosh, I can't think of thecharacter.
Oh, I know, I know the characterthere.
The Proprietress who just wouldhave one club pop up, another
club pop up.
Yeah.
Very much that vibe.
And they all had funky Like theEgyptian what the character's Do
(21:31):
you know what I have it.
I pulled it up.
It is Nelly Coker.
Nelly Mark Coker.
That's it.
Yeah.
Oh.
And her gorgeous son that.
Oh.
But anyway.
I know.
Um.
She writes A good Scotsman does.
Kay Atkinson.
Right.
Anyway, I'm getting distracted.
There's a quote here from theNew Yorker, from 1920.
(21:53):
Yeah, about.
Texas Gwynn and her nightclubs.
there is one woman who gets awaywith vulgarity, and that of
course is t Texas Gwynn.
The club is terrible.
It is rowdy.
It is vulgar.
It is Malin.
It is.
Terrifically vital.
(22:13):
At any rate, the place after twoo'clock is always jammed to the
doors.
Oh, it is a turf and terribleplace.
Everybody should go once in alifetime.
Yes.
What a review.
It's irresistible.
It's so good, isn't it?
Just irresistible to people andthat's the key.
To her success that Texas gavepeople the thrill of a
(22:35):
scandalous sort of, I was justthinking scandal.
That made me think a scandalonce in your lifetime.
Oh.
But she kept it all kind oflight and playful, so, okay.
Not dark, not seedy.
She's No, well, quite seedy Ireckon.
But quite seedy.
Yeah, like in a fun way.
Like fun, seedy.
So you know, you, Ooh.
(22:56):
But you know, you're basicallykind of probably safe.
Seems all right.
So she's maintaining that.
Veneer of, ah, it's all right.
Really?
Because whilst she's out theredoing this breaking prohibition
laws and hostessing these quitesort of like risque clubs, she's
(23:17):
still a movie star.
Yeah.
So she's blurring the lines.
She's going between New York andChicago and Hollywood, and she's
drawing in all of these talents,the, the, the kind of superstars
of her generation.
Confidence to do.
All of this is beyond And alsothis self-belief.
(23:40):
The self-belief you must have torock on is in buckets.
Bed.
Absolutely.
I love it.
Bucket loads of confidence andmingling with, you know, these
incredible talents.
And she herself is just kind of.
Like a Be.
Oh, maybe a Bee Movie actress.
(24:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I get that.
She's pulling in the Algonquintable.
She's got George Gershwin, maWest Al Jolson.
I'm gonna read you a laundrylist now of names.
Mm-hmm.
Clara Bow, John Barry Moore,Dorothy Parker, Rudolph
Valentino.
They're all regulars at herclubs.
And these are names that here weare a hundred years later.
Yeah.
We still know who these peoplewere.
Yeah, like, yeah.
(24:23):
Yeah.
These were the crowd, theyclassic, classic as well.
Now they're turning up to seeher and to see the, this
environment that she's created.
So.
It's a little bit, bit likeCilla Black, like that's a
little bit of the vibe I'mgetting because Cilla Black back
in the day, I love, she kneweveryone and everything and she
(24:43):
was also this like you know,could command But also, like you
say, I would than a-list and allthat kind of stuff.
A little bit of that calm, yeah.
And made people feel good, whichis great.
But.
Unfortunately for this specificuse case, it masked a kind of
(25:09):
darker truth because behind allthe fun and celebrities and the
kind of ooh, controversial, ooh,it actually was quite dark.
It was organized and bankrolledby organized crime.
The reason that they weren'tprosecuted as often as they
probably should have been wasbecause there were mob heavies
sort of making that.
(25:30):
Is the case.
I, they would employ, like,again, shrines of Gaity.
They were employing scandalouslyyoung girls to sing, dance, and
mingle.
Ew, whatever that may mean.
Ew.
Right.
And I mean Texas herself sort ofseemed to have a bit of charm
about it and kind of thought shewas giving these girls away into
(25:52):
entertainment and industry.
Yeah.
And she would apparently,probably rightfully so as well.
Probably not.
Yeah.
This is it.
She's like, experience, it didme no harm.
This, this is your opportunitykid like Yeah.
And she would introduce them andtry to sort of big them up and
say, oh, she's just the sweetestlittle thing you ever did see
and try to like get the crowd onside.
(26:16):
And then there was also like ha,that factor, the Sila black
factor of how she treats herguests and this is her kind of
real secret sauce'cause.
That sas, you think, oh, shecan't possibly be up to
anything.
No.
Good.
She's adorable.
So she was this like beautifulstatuesque, fashionable figure,
(26:38):
always with a cheeky smile.
And her punchline when she wouldgreet people was to say, hello
suckers.
Um, and there's a quote there toexplain what she meant by it.
Uh, she once explained it as herway of saying, hello, pal.
Aren't we all alike after Whichis uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(27:00):
I get that.
Cute.
So.
The law did come a knockingultimately and serving alcohol.
Everyone knew she was doing it,but she always came out
swinging.
So that just added to her kindof rebellious appeal.
Oh, sorry.
It added to the brand.
Yeah, it did.
If you, um, if you care to readthis quote from one of her
(27:24):
trials.
Ms.
Quinn's particular function wasto make a whoopee.
A prosecutor told the jurors shemade everyone feel at home in a
Jovi way.
There was entertainment, thesilliest of songs and jokes, and
the thumbing of noses at theThese exhibitions of whoopee
were going on while the guestsof the establishment were
(27:45):
getting thoroughly in thespirits of the occasion, thanks
to the liquor they had obtained,the all male jury.
Found her not guilty.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Hey, Fred, how about you let meoff?
Like she, that, that jurorobviously, or that, um,
(28:05):
prosecutor obviously thoughtI've got her banged to rights.
I'm gonna tell them exactly whoshe is and they were like, we
love her.
Give us more of her.
What the alcohol, what's theaddress?
How do we find the slaves?
So she got arrested 49 times.
Oh, that's a lot.
That's almost as many movies asshe did.
(28:25):
Yeah.
Like an arrest and then a movie,an arrest, and then a movie.
She went to trial twice, so, andit was a mistake when she did.
That's the stats.
To you trust, isn't it?
If you are getting picked up 49times and only going to court
twice, I'll have of those odds,they're pretty odds.
I think that sounds pretty good.
And like she was never going tobe found guilty because she just
(28:47):
had this natural ease, thisnatural, I don't understand
glamor.
And she would make the jurylaugh.
And then the prosecutors cameacross as these pinched little
weirdos, and she also had.
The heft of organized crimebehind her.
They had money, they would backher up sort of with legal force
(29:08):
and also threatening anyone whowould be testifying against her.
And they had super, super welleducated lawyers that they would
bring in and they'd find thebecause have money.
Yeah.
Um.
So she, isn't that interestingthat she she was playing a show
when she was in court.
Yeah.
Right.
(29:28):
She was.
And she was manipulating was arole, the crowd was a role.
yeah, yeah.
Like it, it was, it was all juston that edge.
Always.
Just on that edge.
So she would've said, I'm aproprie and I'm an entertainer,
not a bootlegger.
It's free to do as she pleasedbecause the juries would agree
(29:49):
with her.
And so she carried on breakingthe law.
Okay.
And apparently her, one of herplaces was padlocked,
apparently.
And Gwen decided this was agreat cover.
So she left the padlock in placeand opened the delivery door,
made in the back alley so thatthe party could carry on.
I'm like.
In love that is genius.
(30:10):
Just absolute genius.
Yeah.
She was an entertainer.
She understood spectacle.
Another story which is muchdarker is that because a lot of
criminal types would come tothese clubs, which was part of
the frisson for like the, youknow, the well healed, but.
They were criminals, sooccasionally it would bubble
(30:30):
over.
And at one point in one of herChicago clubs, there was a fatal
shooting and the police didintervene, obviously, and they,
um, required her to come andmake a statement.
So she said, yes, fine.
Uh, hold that thought, andsummoned a limousine and called
the media to present thisspectacle of her going to the
(30:51):
police station to testify in herlis, isn't it?
It is a little, yeah, it is alittle, um.
Over, over the line.
Bit of a, but this was her.
And so even in death, shebrought the showmanship.
So, yeah.
Uh, she died a horrible,horrible death.
Did you?
She had a meic dysentery, which.
(31:14):
Nobody wants to die that way.
She apparently was in a lovelyhotel in Chicago during the
World's Fair and sanitation wasnot what it should have been
with so many people coming andgoing.
And then she got sick, but sheknew she was sickening and
dying.
So, um.
Oh, and by the way, she diedjust a few weeks before
(31:34):
prohibition ended, so.
Oh, booger.
You're joking.
I know, right?
Like who knows what might'vebeen.
Oh, bless her.
But because she knew she wasdying, she requested that her
funeral would have an opencasket, and I've got some words
of hers to explain why.
So the suckers can get a goodlook at me without a cover
charge.
Oh.
(31:55):
Oh, the sa sa SA SaaS, so she isthe quintessential, lovable
rogue.
There were 7,500 people at herfuneral, and even more came to
view the body, which was likelaid in state, like a queen,
queen, like a state funeral.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
(32:15):
Uh, so people adored her and,you know, from, from stage to
silent movies to thespeakeasies, she was that jazz
age glamor and that spirit ofrebelliousness.
So it's, it's a tricky subjectbecause she did do so many
(32:36):
things that you're like.
Ooh.
But you can't help admiring thesas and I think we should all
have a lovely cocktail.
Yes.
And take a look at the amazingphotos of her once we upload
them, because damn.
It's very, interesting that shedied.
She must have died quite youngthen.
(32:57):
So prohibition ended in 1933 andshe was born in 1884.
And now we expose the fact thatI cannot do math.
19 33 50.
Okay, so, and you know what?
That that scans, because thatis, that's not bad.
That's some of those photos.
(33:17):
You can see that she's a woman,a woman of a certain age, and
the fact that she's still likestriking these dramatic poses
and wearing these incredible1940s dresses and feathers and
sequins and pearls and oh myGod, I just loved, it's so
1920s.
It's so Booy Malone.
That's the vibe.
(33:37):
Gorgeous.
Gorgeous.
Gorgeous.
Yeah.
Gorgeous clothes.
So, yeah.
But she's like my age and stillrocking this stuff and being
like, yeah, that's right.
I'm glamorous.
I see you.
You're having it.
I've seen you be Gram, I've seenyou be gl, stop this.
Well, this is, I think it'simportant.
So, yep.
There we have it.
That is my story for today.
The lovely if controversialTexas Gwen.
(34:01):
Oh, what a little sprinkle of,uh, glamor you've given us on
the podcast.
Kara.
Isn't that cool?
I don't mind a bit of to learnabout, um, a world that, again,
isn't in the about, but actuallyshe needed, she needed like
interpersonal skills, talkingInfluencing people.
(34:21):
Persuading people.
That's not easy.
She had, it sounded like she hada bit of a business head on her.
It sounded like she knew how tonegotiate.
It sounded like, knew how tocook up a storm, like create a
spectacle and pull those puppetstrings on, on the media, on the
jewelry, on her even, I guessrelationships, there must have
(34:44):
been relationships withdirectors and stuff like that to
get casted in 50 You have to belikable, don't you?
Yeah.
And to be willing to put in thework, even if you're not, you
know, like Clara Bow was thebell of the time every, oh,
she's so beautiful.
She's so talented.
We must have her.
That is not the kind ofadoration that Texas Gwyn and
(35:06):
received, but she just went,alright, then I'll do whatever
you got.
Fine.
And I think that pragmatism andlack of ego coupled with this
desire for admiration and glamoris quite a rare Yes.
Combo..
And she isn't just a good gal,you know, she is a little bit
slimy and a little bit criminaland a little bit sleazy.
(35:28):
And you've spoken before aboutwanting to bring in these
stories of women who are a bitnuanced and how complex babe?
Complicated.
Yeah.
And so I think Bobby's.
Fun one to kind of dig into forthat too.
I love peeking behind the 1930sSlapper Girl door.
(35:50):
We've talked before about likesticking to the rules and you
know, being hardworking andbeing good and getting your head
down.
Yeah.
I don't think we would've beenrunning a speakeasy or a blind
pig or a, and that picture of tyher, her hand on her hip and
she's like leaning on one legand she just like so relaxed and
so like yeah.
What and what, she owns theroom.
(36:12):
Yes, she does.
She really does.
I like her, circus ringmasterall in white number as well.
Yeah.
Do you think that's white?
Yeah.
Think it looks white.
I think it's, yeah, I think itis strong.
She'd probably throw it away ifshe spilled anything on it.
Yeah.
Take it away.
Take it away.
Wow.
Well, thank you very much, Myabsolute pleasure.
(36:34):
Enjoy, enjoy cooling off once.
You can get out into the, yeah,my air.
Oh, oh.
I'm cooking.
audio2663295054 (36:49):
Thank you for listening to this episode of She
Changed History.
If you enjoyed it, please like,subscribe and comment below.
Find us on our socials,Facebook, Instagram, and
YouTube.
If you've got any ideas of womenyou'd like us to cover in a
future episode, please commenton the socials or email us at
She Changed history@gmail.com.
Maybe we can do it in two bites.
If it cos out, then obviouslywe'll take a break and Yeah, I
can stop and then go again.
Sort that out.
Ready?
I am ready.
Hi Cara.
Hi Vicki.
How are you doing?
I am very well considering.
Yeah, we're doing all right.
Considering.
Yeah, considering what are weconsidering as we weigh up how
(00:31):
well you are considering?
My sweat to skin ratio.
Really?
That's what we're considering.
It's extremely high for everyoneright now, but it's okay.
My God, no one can smell me.
That's the beauty of podcast.
There's no smell of vision.
So, uh, we're good.
I think we're gonna go walk thedog after this'cause he is it's
so, um, it's so hard for them.
It's so hard for papa.
(00:51):
This is in the same boat?
Yeah, same boat.
We've done some sniff gamesinstead of a walk this morning.
Oh, that's cute.
Well, I love Ted on his sniff Heloves, he loves to sniff.
He's uh, he would be veryoffended at being called games,
but Yeah.
And you know, is jam happy towalk when it's dark outside?
Does he get freaked out?
Yeah, he's fine.
No, no.
(01:11):
Freak out.
He, um.
He's very easily pleased.
Jumbo.
He really Aw is very minimal.
So he's just a bit like we'veonly been out once because also
they can't detect the heat canthey?
They're rubbish at being like,well, now I'm too hot.
They just can't deal I don'tknow.
This might be that thing of dogsbeing like their owners and
you're quite chill and quitecontented.
(01:33):
So jam is, whereas Ted.
Walks into a hot room and looksat me with complete disdain.
Does he?
And just kind of goes, oh, likeflux over on his side.
Like, Ugh.
But resentment, not like, noteven like upset, like he's angry
at me.
Yeah.
Like I did this.
You are the controller of theweather.
Yeah.
But would jam just go out thereand be like, yeah, let's walk.
(01:55):
I don't care.
It's really annoying.
Oh my gosh.
Because it's so unsafe and he'lllike, want to play in the
garden.
'cause we'll have the door openall day so he in, in and out.
But like, he wants to play andit's like, well, no, it's too
hot, Bubba.
Like, you, you can't play in theOh.
He'll be looking forward to hislittle nighttime outing then.
Yeah, just a tiny one.
(02:15):
Just a, a poop and a wee and astretch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I do after a podcastrecording.
Oh my God.
We all do it.
We all, every podcast you everhear.
A poop and awareness.
Every single one.
That's the secret behind the,behind the showbiz.
Behind the showbiz.
You've got your curtain backspeaking.
Your beautiful man, I have isn'tthat?
(02:37):
Isn't that better?
That is showbiz.
I feel that back in the team.
And today's lady is quite a tazzkind of gal, so it's good that
we're bringing the, bringingthe.
The finesse, she'd be very crossif we didn't.
I'm very Should we do it?
Yeah, let's go for it.
(02:58):
And learn about a woman whokind.
Personifies some extremes inAmerican history and some
extremes, maybe even of ournational character.
So I thought to start off with,uh, there's a quote here from
the lady herself, which I thinkgives a little bit of a flavor
(03:18):
of who she is.
Um, quite, I like noise,rhinestone heels, customers,
plenty of attention and redvelvet bathing suits.
I smoke like a five alarm fire.
I eat an aspirin every nightbefore I go to bed.
I call every man.
I don't know, Fred.
And they love it.
I guess that settles mypersonality.
(03:41):
Oh, I know, right?
She's immediately, you're like,yes, yes, please.
So this is a quote from a womancalled Texas Gwen.
Um.
Texas wasn't her birth name, notSurpris.
I was gonna say I surprised toname, but get's like a direct
name.
We'll get to, we'll get kind of,yeah.
(04:02):
Yeah.
It's a bit of a showbiz touch.
So, um, she was born in a smalltown in Texas.
Little doesn't take a huge leapto figure it out.
Um.
And from that humble beginning,she went on to, uh, the warm
embrace of a star on theHollywood Walk of Fame.
And along the way, she hadrun-ins with the law.
(04:24):
She hobnobbed with theluminaries of the jazz age.
Her life took place during oneof America's more strange and
lively periods.
Before now.
Um, so the kind of person whojust whirls through life with a
wink and a smile, we are goingto meet Texas g Guen.
(04:47):
Oh my gosh.
You can't wait.
And I've peppered with pictures,which, okay.
Hopefully we'll get to share onthe, socials.
Mm-hmm.
Uh.
The sources for today are theEncyclopedia Britannica, Texas
State Historical Association anda Waco, Texas History blog,
Vogue and Oxford AmericanMagazines and Columbia
(05:08):
University's Women Film PioneersProject.
Uh, there was also an article byan author called Robert Lal and.
I first heard of her in a bookcalled One Summer America 1927
by Bill Bryson, whichspectacular.
I can't say enough how much Ilove this book, but she was just
(05:30):
one of the characters.
So she herself was born MaryLouise, Cecilia Gwen in 1884 in
Waco, Texas.
And her parents were Irishimmigrants.
You probably are aware the Irishfaced a lot of racial prejudice
in America at that time.
(05:51):
Um, Catholics in particular.
So they.
On a ranch, and her father was agrocer.
Um, Mary Louise was encouragedto learn some traditional kind
of Texas Western skills likeriding and roping cattle, which
she just took to, she wasreally, really adept, um, less
(06:13):
adept at school.
Really, she was not veryinterested in being a student,
so, okay.
She was much more the type tokind of, every class has got
this person in it who disruptsthe class, makes wise cracks and
makes everybody laugh.
And this was despite the factthat her.
Humble, hardworking parents werepaying to send her to a posh
(06:34):
private Catholic.
Oh, no way.
School way.
Oh yeah.
So, and have been an immigrant.
That's a big deal.
Yeah.
They wouldn't have been tooimpressed.
Yeah, I'm sure.
But, um, by the time she reachedthe age of 16, she was just
like, you know, this is not forme.
I want to be an entertainer.
I, I'm gonna chase that dream,so, oh my gosh.
(06:57):
Yeah.
But how many 16 year Yeah.
Okay.
Alright.
And taking that risk, she movedto Chicago, which is thousands
of miles away from Waco, Texas,and her goal there was to study
music.
So bear in mind, this person is16 to 18 years old in this span
(07:19):
of time she's doing this study.
During that period she met,married and then divorced.
A successful newspaper artist.
I don't know what the agedifference was, but if he was up
and running in a career, youhave to imagine.
Yeah, absolutely.
But anyway, she had this likewhirlwind marriage.
Okay.
It wasn't for her.
She also learned that maybesinging wasn't necessarily her
(07:44):
strong suit because No, yeah.
Her voice apparently was.
So, so, but okay.
She just like, really?
Yeah, just like mine.
We are all, we've got what we'vegot.
And just like us, she waswilling to kind of work hard and
make the most of what she hadand just enjoy it.
(08:05):
But because of who she was, shesort of wouldn't take no for an
answer.
And she found work as a chorusgirl, So, um.
Do, do you know aboutvaudeville?
Is that a concept that inBritain it, there's a little
quote here.
If you read it, I think it'll befamiliar to you, but you call it
a different name.
I think.
a light entertainment the mid1890s until the.
(08:29):
Early 1930s that consisted of 10to 15 unrelated acts featuring
magicians, acrobats, trainedanimals, jugglers and dancers.
Uh, I think we'd call that.
A variety show.
That's it.
That's, I couldn't remember thephrase Yes.
Variety show.
(08:49):
Exactly.
And you still have that now in,in a little bit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We have, um, call it?
Royal Variety Show.
That's the main one.
Britain's Got never dies.
Yeah.
Um, also sounds a bit circus,doesn't it?
It sounds, yes, exactly.
Just a bit of spectacle and alittle bit of everything
(09:12):
together, but it suited MaryLouise because she wasn't.
Trying to put it in a respectfulway.
She wasn't like naturallygifted, but she had so much
charisma and that kind of enenvironment allowed her to
interact directly with theaudience and charm them.
And she would tell them storiesabout the Wild West and probably
(09:35):
some of the stories might'vebeen true.
But she would make them laugh.
She would tease them, and shekind of cultivated her persona
and I think she had a lot ofwhat we would call now banter.
She was really good.
I like that.
I like how it's hard not to, soshe's out there working, the
(09:55):
crowds having a grand old timeand traveling about, so that
vaudeville review style ofperformance would go place to
place to place.
Then ultimately it brought herto New York City, and that was
by now it's 1906.
This is the.
Absolute epicenter of the liveentertainment industry.
(10:17):
Um, Broadway is where it's allhappening.
So she put her sights on gettinga role in Broadway and worked at
it, did not give up.
And eventually, in 1913 thathappened for her.
She was in a Broadway role, butjust like a bit part, nothing.
You know, I'm not being finneyto get on.
(10:38):
That's not easy.
That's not easy now, alone thenthat's like, and to stick it out
as well.
Yeah.
I mean to stick it out for what,seven years and just keep
plugging away without any realoutside reinforcement.
Yeah.
That you're any good.
You, you need to be, you need tobe a good dancer entertainer You
(10:59):
don't just get on You don't, andI think you also need to have a
really thick skin to repeatedlybe told Yeah.
You're not quite lead starpotential material.
Yeah.
And to just go, fine, I'll give,I'll do whatever you give me.
Fine.
I'm just, I just wanna be in it.
Like the ego gets put to oneside, fine.
(11:19):
But it, it worked for herbecause she is in this Broadway
show and a talent scout fromHollywood came a knock in.
This is like right place, righttime.
Um, this is the time in theentertainment industry in the
States when Hollywood is hittingits golden age of silent films.
(11:42):
And to kind of give you an idealike they are firing off these
movies, the supply cannot keepup with the demand.
People are hungry forentertainment and, um.
The production of movies washappening at a rate of about
double the age of Netflix andstuff.
You, you think the demand rightnow is quite high, high double
(12:05):
it.
So they are just turning outthis stuff and with her, her
cute looks and her roping andriding skills.
Oh, I see.
She was a bit of a specialistact.
Yeah.
So that.
Set of skills is how she got herpermanent nickname of Texas.
(12:26):
She, she took that as her likeHollywood name and that was it
for the rest of her life.
Oh, I see.
I get it now.
It's I love it.
Yeah, right.
So yeah, Tex, Texas, um, text,they, they started featuring her
in movies where she was sort oflike the central attraction in
about 1918.
Okay.
She is iconically said to havebeen the first movie Cowgirl.
(12:51):
So, you know, yeah, I see that.
Yeah.
It's a big, big deal.
Um.
There's a cute movie poster herewith her all.
Oh, love all Gued up and her forheaven sake, out with her guns.
She looks just like Jesse fromToy Story, she?
Absolutely adorable.
Exactly.
Yeah, absolutely.
So she cracked on with this,right, for 15 years and in that
(13:15):
15 year period she made nearly55 O movies.
So I mean, how long were thesemovies?
Are we talking like for threeminutes?
I think that they were, I thinkthey were between half an hour
and an hour.
I can't say for sure.
Yeah.
But in era, that era.
But at the time, with thetechnology, with the, and their
(13:36):
interspersing text cards mm-hmm.
The little boards, so, you know,these are, it's a different
thing.
Thing.
It's still a big deal.
It's still a big deal.
It's, it's still a big deal.
But she was hardworking and.
Whilst doing all that, she alsocarried on doing some stage work
and thought, I know what wouldbe fun.
(13:58):
I can jump into hospitality aswell, because you know what
better environment for someonewho loves to be the center of
attention and for whom life isjust one big party.
She's like, let's do this.
So she started hostessingmanaging nightclubs and bringing
this like.
(14:19):
Hollywood glamor.
However, like her life timeline.
Intersects with a couple ofinteresting points in American
history, and the next thing thatcame along was prohibition.
So this was a time of challengeand she turned it to her
advantage.
But before we talk about thatmm-hmm.
(14:40):
Um, in case it's not like sortof broadly known, there's a
quote there that explainsprohibition in a nutshell.
The prohibition was the periodfrom 1920 to 1933 during which
the manufacturer transportationand sale of alcoholic beverages
was made illegal Oh, no boo foryou.
(15:02):
No booze for anyone.
Um, well, except Oh, unless yoube elect.
Yes.
So, once that act was in place,there was about a decade of time
when it stood as law and was itis, and you know, it took a
while to kind of like come upand it took a while to sort of
(15:22):
disintegrate, but it's still asolid decade of.
You know, from a modernperspective.
Yeah.
And this is countrywide bonkers,right?
Con countrywide with a couple ofnotable exceptions, but for the
purposes of this conversation,yes.
Okay.
Nationally.
Prohibition and there were thosewho still wanted to drink
(15:42):
alcohol, me.
And there were those, right?
Like all of us.
There were those who werefinding a way to sell it to
them.
And then there was the lawenforcement side of things that
was trying to squash that andsort of shut it down.
So just to give you an idea,what people who broke
prohibition law were, um, kindof looking down the barrel of.
(16:04):
If you had a first conviction,so it, it gets worse from here.
This is your entry level, uh,conviction for prohibition
offenses.
You could get a fine of up to athousand dollars, which is
$16,000 in today's money.
16,000.
16001st offense and orimprisonment for up to six
months.
My God.
(16:25):
So any business premises thatbreaks prohibition law.
Even a business where theproprietors had given their
customer a glass and some icefor their own liquor that they
snuck in.
Right.
That's an offense because youare facilitating someone
drinking alcohol.
(16:45):
So the um, the law enforcementcould come along and padlock
your door.
Literally.
I did know that.
Yeah.
They would padlock.
For a year.
Just so dramatic.
So it's so dramatic and it'slike, it's so counterintuitive
now, but you sort of think, oh.
Businesses failed restaurants,failed bars, nightclubs,
(17:07):
breweries, distilleries, the taxincome that would've come off of
the sale of that alcohol, theshipping companies, all the
people who worked in hospitalityout of work.
So it said, in one of thearticles I read, a quarter of a
million people lost theirlegitimate jobs overnight.
And this was while America wasalready in a mild recession and.
(17:30):
Heading towards the GreatDepression.
So was it a religious The, theperson who came up with it,
apparently as a child, a farmhand who was drunk, had stuck
him in the foot with apitchfork.
I remember this.
Yes.
It, it, alcohol is the root ofall evil and the, he was really,
(17:53):
really good at staying.
But how did he get the whole onmessage country insane.
I think he had a lot of bullyBoy mud slinging.
Techniques that he used to kindof frighten any opponents, and
people kind of got behind it.
They were like, oh yeah, thisis, oh my God, he's so clear.
It's, it's so persuasive becausehe, he didn't muddy the water.
(18:16):
He didn't pull in anything else.
Just this singular message.
Message one message, this willfix us.
This will make our nation greatagain.
Oh, no.
Oh, no.
Oh no.
Oh, no.
Um, so yes, and unfortunatelyfor him.
When the law circumscribes,personal liberty, there's always
(18:37):
somebody who sees that as anopportunity.
Yeah.
And so with the prohibition camethe rise of organized crime.
Mm-hmm.
Um, bootleggers, moonshiners,people who transported alcohol
illegally.
The theft of a few exempt formsof alcohol, such as the ones
that doctors were allowedbecause they were the medium
(18:59):
that medicine would be distilledinto.
Those things would be robbed,often violently, of course.
Um, and then you have.
The illegal nightclubs.
So you will have heard the termspeakeasies or speaks as
apparently, I feel weird sayingit.
Oh, oh, get this.
They were apparently also calleda beer flat.
(19:19):
A blind pig.
A blind tiger.
It's all very like day to day.
It's very strange.
I don't know if these things aretrue.
I'm just reading them.
I think so funny.
That's what a speakeasy easy is.
A speakeasy is an illegalalcohol venue.
Right?
It's like a little, it's like Cmillion vibe.
Yeah, like a little hidden clubthat you can go into and get a
drink.
And so now we come back toTexas, Gwen,'cause she, she's
(19:43):
that, she's there.
She's a shrewd businesswoman andshe's got a keen eye for fun.
And Americans during this timestill wanted fun.
Yeah, it was a dull time and shedid not care.
You know about breaking therules and the risks of fines,
(20:04):
the risks of imprisonment,whatever.
So I've got a quote here that Ithink explains her position
pretty well.
What Americans needed, judgeGwen was a place where they
could escape.
So she set up her clubs andbetween the hours at 10:00 PM
and 6:00 AM customers were freeto do as they pleased.
(20:24):
It's like a little naughty, alittle naughty do ghost.
Mm-hmm.
That, that's quite broad.
She's in there.
She's the hostess.
She's this powerhouse where eventhough it's kind of like a freer
age, the jazz age, women arestill not really having any kind
of legal parody.
(20:44):
They're sort of fighting to beheard, but she's out there
commanding attention, commandingrespect, and making these
illegal clubs the place to be.
Are you saying clubs are inplural?
She had more than one.
She did, she had a lot of ironsand a lot of fires, and she
would move about and Oh, I'm sojealous.
(21:05):
The show on the road.
Yeah.
Um, if you read Shrines of Gaityby Kate Atkinson Yes, I did.
Yeah.
You know, um, uh, ma.
Oh gosh, I can't think of thecharacter.
Oh, I know, I know the characterthere.
The Proprietress who just wouldhave one club pop up, another
club pop up.
Yeah.
Very much that vibe.
And they all had funky Like theEgyptian what the character's Do
(21:31):
you know what I have it.
I pulled it up.
It is Nelly Coker.
Nelly Mark Coker.
That's it.
Yeah.
Oh.
And her gorgeous son that.
Oh.
But anyway.
I know.
Um.
She writes A good Scotsman does.
Kay Atkinson.
Right.
Anyway, I'm getting distracted.
There's a quote here from theNew Yorker, from 1920.
(21:53):
Yeah, about.
Texas Gwynn and her nightclubs.
there is one woman who gets awaywith vulgarity, and that of
course is t Texas Gwynn.
The club is terrible.
It is rowdy.
It is vulgar.
It is Malin.
It is.
Terrifically vital.
(22:13):
At any rate, the place after twoo'clock is always jammed to the
doors.
Oh, it is a turf and terribleplace.
Everybody should go once in alifetime.
Yes.
What a review.
It's irresistible.
It's so good, isn't it?
Just irresistible to people andthat's the key.
To her success that Texas gavepeople the thrill of a
(22:35):
scandalous sort of, I was justthinking scandal.
That made me think a scandalonce in your lifetime.
Oh.
But she kept it all kind oflight and playful, so, okay.
Not dark, not seedy.
She's No, well, quite seedy Ireckon.
But quite seedy.
Yeah, like in a fun way.
Like fun, seedy.
So you know, you, Ooh.
(22:56):
But you know, you're basicallykind of probably safe.
Seems all right.
So she's maintaining that.
Veneer of, ah, it's all right.
Really?
Because whilst she's out theredoing this breaking prohibition
laws and hostessing these quitesort of like risque clubs, she's
(23:17):
still a movie star.
Yeah.
So she's blurring the lines.
She's going between New York andChicago and Hollywood, and she's
drawing in all of these talents,the, the, the kind of superstars
of her generation.
Confidence to do.
All of this is beyond And alsothis self-belief.
(23:40):
The self-belief you must have torock on is in buckets.
Bed.
Absolutely.
I love it.
Bucket loads of confidence andmingling with, you know, these
incredible talents.
And she herself is just kind of.
Like a Be.
Oh, maybe a Bee Movie actress.
(24:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I get that.
She's pulling in the Algonquintable.
She's got George Gershwin, maWest Al Jolson.
I'm gonna read you a laundrylist now of names.
Mm-hmm.
Clara Bow, John Barry Moore,Dorothy Parker, Rudolph
Valentino.
They're all regulars at herclubs.
And these are names that here weare a hundred years later.
Yeah.
We still know who these peoplewere.
Yeah, like, yeah.
(24:23):
Yeah.
These were the crowd, theyclassic, classic as well.
Now they're turning up to seeher and to see the, this
environment that she's created.
So.
It's a little bit, bit likeCilla Black, like that's a
little bit of the vibe I'mgetting because Cilla Black back
in the day, I love, she kneweveryone and everything and she
(24:43):
was also this like you know,could command But also, like you
say, I would than a-list and allthat kind of stuff.
A little bit of that calm, yeah.
And made people feel good, whichis great.
But.
Unfortunately for this specificuse case, it masked a kind of
(25:09):
darker truth because behind allthe fun and celebrities and the
kind of ooh, controversial, ooh,it actually was quite dark.
It was organized and bankrolledby organized crime.
The reason that they weren'tprosecuted as often as they
probably should have been wasbecause there were mob heavies
sort of making that.
(25:30):
Is the case.
I, they would employ, like,again, shrines of Gaity.
They were employing scandalouslyyoung girls to sing, dance, and
mingle.
Ew, whatever that may mean.
Ew.
Right.
And I mean Texas herself sort ofseemed to have a bit of charm
about it and kind of thought shewas giving these girls away into
(25:52):
entertainment and industry.
Yeah.
And she would apparently,probably rightfully so as well.
Probably not.
Yeah.
This is it.
She's like, experience, it didme no harm.
This, this is your opportunitykid like Yeah.
And she would introduce them andtry to sort of big them up and
say, oh, she's just the sweetestlittle thing you ever did see
and try to like get the crowd onside.
(26:16):
And then there was also like ha,that factor, the Sila black
factor of how she treats herguests and this is her kind of
real secret sauce'cause.
That sas, you think, oh, shecan't possibly be up to
anything.
No.
Good.
She's adorable.
So she was this like beautifulstatuesque, fashionable figure,
(26:38):
always with a cheeky smile.
And her punchline when she wouldgreet people was to say, hello
suckers.
Um, and there's a quote there toexplain what she meant by it.
Uh, she once explained it as herway of saying, hello, pal.
Aren't we all alike after Whichis uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(27:00):
I get that.
Cute.
So.
The law did come a knockingultimately and serving alcohol.
Everyone knew she was doing it,but she always came out
swinging.
So that just added to her kindof rebellious appeal.
Oh, sorry.
It added to the brand.
Yeah, it did.
If you, um, if you care to readthis quote from one of her
(27:24):
trials.
Ms.
Quinn's particular function wasto make a whoopee.
A prosecutor told the jurors shemade everyone feel at home in a
Jovi way.
There was entertainment, thesilliest of songs and jokes, and
the thumbing of noses at theThese exhibitions of whoopee
were going on while the guestsof the establishment were
(27:45):
getting thoroughly in thespirits of the occasion, thanks
to the liquor they had obtained,the all male jury.
Found her not guilty.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Hey, Fred, how about you let meoff?
Like she, that, that jurorobviously, or that, um,
(28:05):
prosecutor obviously thoughtI've got her banged to rights.
I'm gonna tell them exactly whoshe is and they were like, we
love her.
Give us more of her.
What the alcohol, what's theaddress?
How do we find the slaves?
So she got arrested 49 times.
Oh, that's a lot.
That's almost as many movies asshe did.
(28:25):
Yeah.
Like an arrest and then a movie,an arrest, and then a movie.
She went to trial twice, so, andit was a mistake when she did.
That's the stats.
To you trust, isn't it?
If you are getting picked up 49times and only going to court
twice, I'll have of those odds,they're pretty odds.
I think that sounds pretty good.
And like she was never going tobe found guilty because she just
(28:47):
had this natural ease, thisnatural, I don't understand
glamor.
And she would make the jurylaugh.
And then the prosecutors cameacross as these pinched little
weirdos, and she also had.
The heft of organized crimebehind her.
They had money, they would backher up sort of with legal force
(29:08):
and also threatening anyone whowould be testifying against her.
And they had super, super welleducated lawyers that they would
bring in and they'd find thebecause have money.
Yeah.
Um.
So she, isn't that interestingthat she she was playing a show
when she was in court.
Yeah.
Right.
(29:28):
She was.
And she was manipulating was arole, the crowd was a role.
yeah, yeah.
Like it, it was, it was all juston that edge.
Always.
Just on that edge.
So she would've said, I'm aproprie and I'm an entertainer,
not a bootlegger.
It's free to do as she pleasedbecause the juries would agree
(29:49):
with her.
And so she carried on breakingthe law.
Okay.
And apparently her, one of herplaces was padlocked,
apparently.
And Gwen decided this was agreat cover.
So she left the padlock in placeand opened the delivery door,
made in the back alley so thatthe party could carry on.
I'm like.
In love that is genius.
(30:10):
Just absolute genius.
Yeah.
She was an entertainer.
She understood spectacle.
Another story which is muchdarker is that because a lot of
criminal types would come tothese clubs, which was part of
the frisson for like the, youknow, the well healed, but.
They were criminals, sooccasionally it would bubble
(30:30):
over.
And at one point in one of herChicago clubs, there was a fatal
shooting and the police didintervene, obviously, and they,
um, required her to come andmake a statement.
So she said, yes, fine.
Uh, hold that thought, andsummoned a limousine and called
the media to present thisspectacle of her going to the
(30:51):
police station to testify in herlis, isn't it?
It is a little, yeah, it is alittle, um.
Over, over the line.
Bit of a, but this was her.
And so even in death, shebrought the showmanship.
So, yeah.
Uh, she died a horrible,horrible death.
Did you?
She had a meic dysentery, which.
(31:14):
Nobody wants to die that way.
She apparently was in a lovelyhotel in Chicago during the
World's Fair and sanitation wasnot what it should have been
with so many people coming andgoing.
And then she got sick, but sheknew she was sickening and
dying.
So, um.
Oh, and by the way, she diedjust a few weeks before
(31:34):
prohibition ended, so.
Oh, booger.
You're joking.
I know, right?
Like who knows what might'vebeen.
Oh, bless her.
But because she knew she wasdying, she requested that her
funeral would have an opencasket, and I've got some words
of hers to explain why.
So the suckers can get a goodlook at me without a cover
charge.
Oh.
(31:55):
Oh, the sa sa SA SaaS, so she isthe quintessential, lovable
rogue.
There were 7,500 people at herfuneral, and even more came to
view the body, which was likelaid in state, like a queen,
queen, like a state funeral.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
(32:15):
Uh, so people adored her and,you know, from, from stage to
silent movies to thespeakeasies, she was that jazz
age glamor and that spirit ofrebelliousness.
So it's, it's a tricky subjectbecause she did do so many
(32:36):
things that you're like.
Ooh.
But you can't help admiring thesas and I think we should all
have a lovely cocktail.
Yes.
And take a look at the amazingphotos of her once we upload
them, because damn.
It's very, interesting that shedied.
She must have died quite youngthen.
(32:57):
So prohibition ended in 1933 andshe was born in 1884.
And now we expose the fact thatI cannot do math.
19 33 50.
Okay, so, and you know what?
That that scans, because thatis, that's not bad.
That's some of those photos.
(33:17):
You can see that she's a woman,a woman of a certain age, and
the fact that she's still likestriking these dramatic poses
and wearing these incredible1940s dresses and feathers and
sequins and pearls and oh myGod, I just loved, it's so
1920s.
It's so Booy Malone.
That's the vibe.
(33:37):
Gorgeous.
Gorgeous.
Gorgeous.
Yeah.
Gorgeous clothes.
So, yeah.
But she's like my age and stillrocking this stuff and being
like, yeah, that's right.
I'm glamorous.
I see you.
You're having it.
I've seen you be Gram, I've seenyou be gl, stop this.
Well, this is, I think it'simportant.
So, yep.
There we have it.
That is my story for today.
The lovely if controversialTexas Gwen.
(34:01):
Oh, what a little sprinkle of,uh, glamor you've given us on
the podcast.
Kara.
Isn't that cool?
I don't mind a bit of to learnabout, um, a world that, again,
isn't in the about, but actuallyshe needed, she needed like
interpersonal skills, talkingInfluencing people.
(34:21):
Persuading people.
That's not easy.
She had, it sounded like she hada bit of a business head on her.
It sounded like she knew how tonegotiate.
It sounded like, knew how tocook up a storm, like create a
spectacle and pull those puppetstrings on, on the media, on the
jewelry, on her even, I guessrelationships, there must have
(34:44):
been relationships withdirectors and stuff like that to
get casted in 50 You have to belikable, don't you?
Yeah.
And to be willing to put in thework, even if you're not, you
know, like Clara Bow was thebell of the time every, oh,
she's so beautiful.
She's so talented.
We must have her.
That is not the kind ofadoration that Texas Gwyn and
(35:06):
received, but she just went,alright, then I'll do whatever
you got.
Fine.
And I think that pragmatism andlack of ego coupled with this
desire for admiration and glamoris quite a rare Yes.
Combo..
And she isn't just a good gal,you know, she is a little bit
slimy and a little bit criminaland a little bit sleazy.
(35:28):
And you've spoken before aboutwanting to bring in these
stories of women who are a bitnuanced and how complex babe?
Complicated.
Yeah.
And so I think Bobby's.
Fun one to kind of dig into forthat too.
I love peeking behind the 1930sSlapper Girl door.
(35:50):
We've talked before about likesticking to the rules and you
know, being hardworking andbeing good and getting your head
down.
Yeah.
I don't think we would've beenrunning a speakeasy or a blind
pig or a, and that picture of tyher, her hand on her hip and
she's like leaning on one legand she just like so relaxed and
so like yeah.
What and what, she owns theroom.
(36:12):
Yes, she does.
She really does.
I like her, circus ringmasterall in white number as well.
Yeah.
Do you think that's white?
Yeah.
Think it looks white.
I think it's, yeah, I think itis strong.
She'd probably throw it away ifshe spilled anything on it.
Yeah.
Take it away.
Take it away.
Wow.
Well, thank you very much, Myabsolute pleasure.
(36:34):
Enjoy, enjoy cooling off once.
You can get out into the, yeah,my air.
Oh, oh.
I'm cooking.
audio2663295054 (36:49):
Thank you for listening to this episode of She
Changed History.
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Find us on our socials,Facebook, Instagram, and
YouTube.
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