December 10, 2024 • 36 mins
The Night Witches: Soviet Women's Bravery in WWII
In this episode of She Changed History, Simon and Vicky explore the remarkable story of the Night Witches, an all-female Soviet bomber regiment during World War II. The episode details the challenges these women faced, from ill-fitting uniforms to outdated equipment, and showcases their unmatched bravery and resilience. It highlights key figures like Marina Raskova, the 'Mother of the Night Witches,' and delves into their tactics, contributions, and the legacy they left. This fascinating recount shatters stereotypes and celebrates the extraordinary courage of these female aviators who significantly impacted the course of the war.
Send your stories to: shechangedhistory@gmail.com
Sources are:
My Favorite Murder podcast Episode 406
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3ykh158XwyxOWmDGyDOtZe
“The Little-Known Story of the Night Witches, an All-Female Force in WWII” by Eric Grundhauser (Vanity Fair) 2015
“Marina Raskova and the Night Witches” by Rachele Momi (Grey Dynamics) 2022
“Night Witches: The Female Russian Combat Unions of the Sky” by Jessie-Lee Smith (The Collector) 2023
“Who Were The Soviet Night Witches?” by Emilie Le Beau Lucchesi (Discover
Magazine) 2022
“The Soviet Night Witches” blog post, no author listed (Wright Museum of WWII) 2020
“Marina Raskova” (Wikipedia)
“Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union” no author listed (Imperial War Museums)
“Nadezhda Popova, WWII ‘Night Witch,’ Dies at 91” by Douglas Martin (New York
Times) 2013
00:00 Introduction
00:23 Meet the Enthusiastic Ceramicist
01:18 Welcome to She Changed History
02:04 The Night Witches: WWII's Fearless Female Pilots
02:44 Research and Sources on the Night Witches
03:11 Redefining the Image of Witches
03:37 The Soviet Union's WWII Context
06:43 Marina Raskova: The Mother of the Night Witches
11:38 Formation of the Female Aviation Regiments
16:07 Challenges Faced by the Night Witches
17:34 The Outdated Equipment of Female Pilots
18:33 Challenges Faced by Female Pilots
20:28 Tactical Innovations and Night Missions
22:38 Recognition and Legacy of the Night Witches
25:08 Heroic Stories and Unyielding Spirit
29:47 Impact and Modern-Day Comparisons
35:47 Conclusion and Reflections
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
audio1887470712 (00:08):
I've done one in Hereford most recently, but
not the Simmons Yacht Pottery.
Is that, are they good?
It's called Yacht Pottery, butit's in Ross.
Oh yeah.
Nice yellow sign.
It's a really good art shop aswell.
Got a nice lot of stuff inthere.
And the guy was really lovely.
he's very technical and veryknowledgeable, obviously, and
he, I just love are just at onewith what they do, you know what
(00:32):
I mean, like, he's just so happyhe's found his thing.
He loves ceramics.
Oh, that's gorgeous, isn't it?
It was like oozing out of himand, yeah.
That is more you buy into isn'tit than the shop or anything.
It's more the guy.
So yeah, he was really sweet.
And I just love it.
I love it when have found theirthing and yeah, it was, it
(00:53):
doesn't really matter what thatthing is.
Oh my gosh.
I'm such a sucker.
I'll come along with anything.
Oh my gosh, you want to dowatercolours?
Great! you know what I mean?
Whatever it is, let's go.
I'm fully on board.
If you're passionate about it,let's go.
So I'm, like a little leech.
I leech onto people and theirhobbies, so, rather than make my
(01:15):
own.
Shall we do this?
Let's go.
Hi everyone.
Welcome back to She ChangedHistory with me, Simon.
I'm Vicky.
Hi.
Hi Vicky.
How are you doing?
Hello.
I'm good.
Moved back into the officetoday, so I don't have, I think
A wonderful green background.
(01:35):
And my map, I feel like the mapweirdly gave me a lot of
gravitas in my background, andthis is a very neutral Petru, so
I feel like I've lost mygravitas, which is a bit sad.
I think the dressing gown isreally adding gravitas for you.
It's just the same, it's justthe same, it's a real
intellectual's dressing gown,that is.
Yes, thank you, thank you.
Bye bye.
What have you got for us today?
(01:56):
So this one is very, I say thisabout them all, but this one's
very exciting.
I know.
So imagine this, a cold, silentnight during World War II.
Suddenly, the sound of the windwhispers above as planes, barely
visible, glide through thedarkness, their engines cut,
(02:17):
undetectable, until bombs beginto rain down.
These were no ordinary pilots.
They were the Night Witches, anall female Soviet bomber
regiment that outsmarted theNazis using wooden aeroplanes,
unmatched bravery, and sheercourage.
Get ready to uncover theextraordinary story of these
fearless women who turned thetide of war under the cover of
(02:41):
sound pretty exciting.
It sounds so cool.
Yeah, you're right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, we've got lots of sources.
I first found this story on, myfavorite murder podcast, episode
406.
So that's where I kind ofstarted my research and there's
loads more in there.
There's a Vanity Fair articlefrom 2015.
there's a Grey Dynamics articlefrom 2022.
(03:03):
Um, Discover magazine articlealso from 2022.
Loads and loads and loads.
So we'll pop those in our shownotes as always.
so the Night Witches.
When you think of witches, Idunno, what do you think when I
say witch?
Uh, sort of hacked woman on abroom.
Hacked.
You can say hacked, but youknow, sort of, uh, gnarly.
(03:26):
And warty.
And gnarly.
Cackling.
Narly.
Love it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So evil.
old is another one, isn't it?
Like cauldrons patients, allthat kind of stuff.
I'm going to tear that notionaway from you and rip it up into
lots of little pieces becausethis one is very much, so it's
quite modern ish history, we'rein World War II, a little bit of
(03:49):
war context, obviously we knowwhat World War II is about, but
it's a very specific part ofWorld War II.
In 1939, Germany invaded Polandand there was a a Molotov ribbon
drop pact between the SovietUnion and Germany to avoid
mutual aggression.
So basically Stalin and Hitlerwere like had a little bit of a
(04:13):
peace, troops, and in 1941,Hitler, being Hitler, broke that
pact on June the Couldn't trusthim, could you?
Well, it's just very Hitler,it's a very Hitler thing to do.
Classic Hitler.
Classic Hitler.
Um, so this prompted Stalin toretaliate.
there is an argument that ifHitler hadn't have broken this
(04:37):
pact, that He would have won thewar basically because this
amount of retaliation Stalin andSoviet Union was just unrivaled.
so the Soviet Union wasundertaken by Germany and Stalin
expanded all his efforts.
So tanks, aviation, everythingof the Red Army.
(04:59):
Enter women.
women in, war took roles thatyou would expect them to take.
So I'm thinking nurses, I'mthinking sewing, making the
uniforms, basically anything onland, anything on land, on high
territory.
Maintenance.
That's it.
Yeah.
In, Soviet Union, women werecompletely banned from air
(05:20):
force.
in its entirety.
Some women were actually in thesniper teams and some of them
made ditch traps, which aretraps in a ditch that trap
tanks, basically is what itsays, what it says on the tin.
And I was like, yes, this is,this is what I thought it makes
a lot of sense.
(05:42):
So they were doing, they weredoing little physical stuff, but
like you said, but mainlysupportive maintenance roles.
Right.
these women were.
angry, upset.
They had gone through so muchloss already in terms of family,
their home, land.
They've been betrayedpolitically and otherwise.
And they were, they were angry,which is a lot of women that we
(06:07):
cover.
They are angry women.
Yeah.
it's usually some sort ofinjustice that kicks these
things off.
Absolutely.
Do you think they were, werethey sort of smarting for a
fight?
Did they want to get involvedand fight someone, whoever that
may be?
Absolutely.
They really sought out thesecombat roles.
They wanted, and I think some ofthat is cultural as well.
(06:27):
So Many Soviet women already hadexperience of things like flying
planes.
It was just part of theirculture.
Their land is very different toour land.
It's very vast.
Yeah.
And it was quite a usual thing.
It wasn't unheard of, of womento be flying.
Enter Marina Raskova.
Who has been dubbed, which Ilove this term, the mother of
(06:49):
the night, which an amazingtitle.
That's cool.
So who is Marina?
She was born on March 28th,1912.
And when she was little, shewanted to be an opera singer,
which isn't that just the cutestthing, love it.
Yeah.
At the age of 13, her fatherdied when he was hit by a
motorcycle.
(07:10):
He wasn't hit, uh, died in theimpact.
He actually dies from infectionAnd.
Because of that loss of apatriarch, like many of the
other women we've covered on thepodcast, she was expected to
help financially.
So Marina worked to support herfamily, studying engineering and
chemistry.
(07:32):
Wow.
She worked as a chemist in a dyefactory, so dyeing fabrics.
She married and then sheactually later joined the Air
Force in a technical role.
And by technical role, I meanlike technical drawings and
plans and using that mathematicsand engineering.
So she really understands thedesign of aircraft, how they
(07:54):
work, how they function.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And this was for aircraft at thetime.
She excels at that.
She's very, very good.
She has a great reputation.
she's pulling on all thesedifferent strings that she has.
One year later.
She starts practicing to becomea pilot and also an instructor.
So she's, this is her thing,this is her jam, she's loving
(08:15):
it.
She's clever, she's got theskills to Just like she was very
good at technical drawings,turns out she's very good at
flying.
So she becomes the first femaleaviation instructor in the
Soviet Union in 1933.
She is part of the flying clubin Tohishino.
So she's like 21 when she doesthat.
I know.
It's great, isn't it?
(08:35):
She officially becomes one in1935.
At this time she actuallydivorces, so she was married and
had a child before that, becauseshe, and it's a very conscious
decision for her so she canfocus on her career.
It's very much cited as this isme, this is what I want to do, I
feel I want to take the path,And she does that, so she racks
(08:57):
up loads and loads of hours offlying experience.
She sets multiple internationalflight records, for example, the
998 mile non stop flight onOctober the 24th, 1937.
She's so good at flying.
She is awarded Hero of theSoviet Union and the Order of
the Lenning.
(09:18):
She also gains fame during thistime.
Mm-Hmm.
And she becomes known as theSoviet's Amelia Earhart which is
like a similar timeframe.
Yeah.
So she's racking up these hours.
She's racking up thisexperience.
We know she's got good technicalskills because of where she
started.
And now we know that she's gotreally good practical skills as
(09:40):
well.
wonder if in Russia, when theytalk about Amelia Earhart, they
describe her as the AmericanMarina Raskova.
I really hope so.
If not, we should write to them.
I hope there's that symmetry.
Yes, so because she's very goodand she's got all this fame, she
actually gets to meet Stalin,who shows great admiration for
(10:01):
what she's achieved.
It's quite, meritocracy kind ofrise actually.
So it's somebody who worked veryhard, and got rewarded for that.
He, issues a commemorative stampbecause he's so impressed And
Marina has a lot of pride forher country.
She's very patriotic.
(10:22):
at this time, so this is whenthe timelines overlap slightly.
So we've got Hitler breaking hispact and then we've got Marina's
coming up through the ranks andshe actually starts lobbying
Stalin to allow women intocombat roles.
So she's using her position ofnewly Found power and nearly
(10:45):
found fame to hero of the SovietUnion just casually Um, so she
uses that to break the moldbasically and be like, what are
you talking about?
I'm perfect Yeah.
And like, nobody can with that,with her sort of international
(11:05):
records and her experience indesigning, and she's like being
given this highest honor of thecountry.
Nobody can then say, Oh, well,no women can't fly planes.
Yeah, exactly.
Here I am.
Look at my stamp.
Yeah.
Look at my stamp.
That is such an awesome brag.
(11:29):
Yeah.
Look at my stamp, bitches.
Look at it, man.
So she lobbies him successfully.
Stalin says yes, which is great.
So, um, this leads to, Marinaforming three regiments, all
women, all female aviationregiments, she's like,
(11:50):
overseeing it all really.
So he suddenly allows women todraft it for the war of the
people who, drafted 1000 arechosen to serve and.
obviously the war is raging onand they have to do this
quickly, so they have to betrained up quite quick.
Normally when you enteraviation, it's 18 months of
(12:13):
training that men are normallygiven.
Um, but you know, Hitler's doinghis thing.
That means they only have sixmonths to do the same amount of
training.
So they come up with a trainingplan.
Yeah.
They managed to cut a year outof that and, and they worked
very hard.
So this is in plane maintenance,navigation, combat, piloting,
(12:34):
the whole shebang, right?
So Marina sets up threesquadrons, The first is the
586th Fighter Aviation Regiment.
This is commanded by TamaraCazza Renova, sadly, very
quickly, dies in combat so she'slost quite early on.
(12:54):
She is later replaced byAlexander Grid who is a man so
that quickly becomes a mixedgender regiment.
this is the first regiment thatis set up and because of that it
gets the best recruits into thatsquadron.
Okay.
And it kind of leaves littlerecognition when compared to the
other two regiments.
Mm-Hmm.
So it's first come, first servekind of vibe.
(13:16):
it also included the pilot,Liliana Li Litvac, who was the
first woman to shoot down anenemy plane, and ballerina Kova,
who is the first woman to shootdown an enemy aircraft at night.
So these women are doing itThey're trained, they've worked
(13:37):
really hard, they're, you know,patriotic, they're amazing
things.
And just that any pilot on anyside was able to shoot down any
plane is incredible, because Imean there's no like guided
missiles back then, there's noheat seeking missiles, there's
no fire and forget, they're justpointing their plane in a
direction with this machine gunon the front.
(13:58):
That is such a good point, the,their equipment compared to
today's is your polar polaropposites apart.
And I think sometimes we forgetthat don't mean because we talk
about these walls a lot.
it kind of negates that a littlebit, I and, like we spoke about
it previously Ella Hatton,pistols and they're different
(14:21):
pistols.
Yeah, today we have like anautomatic gun was that it.
requires to a certain extentless skill, you could argue,
couldn't you?
Yeah, so my grandfather was anavigator in the RAF in World
War II.
Oh my gosh.
But I mean, he grew up in Londonwhen there were still horses in
the streets making deliveries.
Of course.
And they had like multi storeystables.
(14:43):
in the middle of the city.
So this is, it's like really atransition period.
There's, we don't have computersat this time.
There's no, there's nothing hightech, it's very much sort of
still these technologicalremnants of the Victorian era.
I always think that, um, notch,in Peaky Blinders, because they
start off on horses, don't they?
(15:04):
And then by the end, he's gotlike a fleet of cars, yeah, it's
just the same.
It's exactly the same, yeah.
So that's the first regiment.
The second regiment is the 587thBomber Regiment.
This is originally led by MarinaRaskova herself.
And then the final regiment,588th Night Bomber Regiment, is
(15:27):
the one we're going to talkabout today, because they became
the Night Now, because it's thethird regiment, If all the great
people went into the first, andthis is the third, your skill is
slightly down.
Okay.
the also the only regiment thatremained completely And this is
in every role.
(15:47):
So I'm thinking pilots, I'mthinking maintenance, I'm
thinking technical, I'm thinkingnavigation, every role, top to
front to back, was had a womanin place.
This regiment became the mostfamous regiment due to their
tactics And their awesome name.
And there's a really cool storybehind the name So, um, pulling
(16:12):
on what you just mentionedearlier, the equipment and these
women are not set up forsuccess, I think is the
headline.
They're not set up to do muchreally, so they're given hand me
down uniforms that are illfitting, they're made for male
soldiers and they're cumbersome.
(16:33):
They got to the point where theyactually impeded action, do what
they wanted to do.
The other thing with theiruniforms is their boots.
So they were all given hand medown men's boots.
They were all issued with a size42 boot regardless.
And because of this, and alsotheir calves are different
(16:54):
sizes, everything, these bootsjust didn't stay on.
Like they were useless and itgot to the point where they were
so ill-fitting that the womentaught up bedsheets, stuffed the
bedsheets in the boots so theycould stay on.
I don't mind wearing a war,right?
Yeah.
We're trying to fight the enemyright here.
It's really not ideal.
I'm not saying, I'm not sayingthe men's uniform was perfect,
(17:18):
but imagine that on a hand medown that is not Mm-Hmm.
Fit for issue.
Right.
The women also cut their hairreally short, so they weren't
recognized as women by theenemies.
One of the pilots would laterrecall in an interview, quote,
we didn't recognize ourselves inthe mirror.
We were all boys out oh, justsuch a powerful line.
(17:41):
On top of that, that's theuniform.
On top of that, we've got theequipment.
So, the best planes went to thebest regiments, much like the
skills.
the planes were outdated.
The women were given a PolikopahPotu, which is made of wood and
canvas.
And it's intended for dustingcrops in a field.
(18:03):
That's what we're using righthere.
I've looked up a picture ofthem, and it looks like, There's
sort of, as you imagine, a realold school chugging along, sort
of biplane.
That's it.
Um, you imagine a fella sittingin there with a scarf over his
neck, sort of fluttering out theback, and a moustache and the
goggles sort of thing.
And you can even see where the,the canvas is stretched over the
(18:24):
wooden ribs of the plane.
I mean, it's amazing that itflies.
Yeah.
I wouldn't fancy going to warwith your little head sticking
out the top.
Again, these women are meant tobe in fighter jets.
This is a farming.
Yeah, it's outdated.
It's very slow.
It's got an open cockpit.
(18:45):
Like you said, like you can seewho's in there, which means the
women are completely uncovered.
They have no protection.
It also limits what they cancarry on board because it's so
weak.
It also can't fly as high.
As the men's planes, which meansthey are much closer to the
enemy's land and the enemy'sAnd, you know, just bombs in
(19:06):
general.
Um, Because it is an opencockpit, this led to frostbite
because as well as everythingelse, the planes lacked
insulation.
Um, it doesn't have any lights.
Why would it?
Um, which means that.
Because they were flying atnight.
This is the night regimen andthey had to be guided purely by
(19:30):
the stars.
Wow I know on top of that.
They have no navigationequipment.
They relied on a map and a Yeah,I'm trying to find sort of
silver linings here but nolights suggests they're quite
stealthy I don't imagine they'revery loud Um, and like they
(19:51):
can't have their equipmentjammed or anything.
I wonder if they even showed upon radar being wood and canvas.
I love how positive you'refeeling.
Fabulous.
I believe in them though.
that's the little speech I tryand give to them.
It's like, no, no, no, thesearen't rubbish planes.
These are exactly the planesthat we need.
Um, they couldn't carryparachutes due to restricted
(20:13):
weight limits and, Like yousaid, one spark, because they're
wooden, it could literally catchfire.
Like, you know, this is asdangerous as it could possibly
be.
Fighting.
This is, we're in a strongdanger zone.
But what did they do, Simon?
They used this to theiradvantage.
So hold on all that positivethinking.
(20:33):
Oh, I love it.
Great.
So, they flew in groups ofthree, so three planes, one in
the middle had the bomb, twowere decoy planes, so they would
peel off in opposite directions,and the middle one would drop
the bomb.
Nazis had big floodlights on theground, so the timing had to be
just right, so they weren'tdetected.
(20:57):
This was a real skill, and whatwould happen is, so the two
planes have peeled off,floodlights are going crazy.
the navigator would tap thepilot on the shoulder because
they can't make any noise andthat was their sign to cut the
engine So now you're glidingright, you're mid air, you're
(21:18):
coasting silently over thesetargets unseen and unheard
because we're in the thick ofnight.
They position themselves overthe enemy below and then they
drop the bombs completelyundetected.
This was too late for the Nazisto even know they were going to
do it.
But it's cool.
(21:39):
not for the Nazis, but that's.
And the only reason they coulddo that was because their planes
are so crap, like, because theywere rickety odd things and they
were light, so they could glide,you know, they used that to
their advantage.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Um, then they would aren't loadsthat would be able to sort of
glide for long like that, Iwouldn't have thought.
(22:01):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Because they could only carrytwo bombs at a time, they'd have
to return to base, reload, andthen go again.
So, they would keep changingformations, so the person on the
outside would then go on the Andthey would keep doing this all
night long, which is amazing.
So they would do anythingbetween eight and eighteen
(22:24):
missions per night.
So they were really refiningthis, they were getting really
good.
Oh man, it must have pissed theNazis off.
Oh god, that's irritating, isn'tit?
It's the best.
So it was the Nazis thatactually gave them the nickname,
uh, Nachhausen, which is nightwitches because of their stealth
(22:46):
and their efficiency.
There was also rumours amongstthe Nazis that whoever were
flying these planes, becausethey didn't know, took pills or
had some kind of chemical forcat like night vision.
Oh, that's great.
They probably started thatrumour themselves.
You know what I've heard.
but also because, you know,they, women can't possibly be
(23:09):
doing this.
It must be some pill.
It must be some chemical.
It's got to be some sort ofsupernatural woman.
Yeah.
the fear of the night, which iswas so strong that if a German
soldier shot down a night, whichthey would be awarded an iron
cross, which is one of thehighest medals you could get.
Yeah, because the fear of thesenight vultures was so strong.
(23:31):
the Nazis didn't actually knowthat these planes were flown by
women, because imagine if theydid know.
If they did know.
You know, it'd be straight tothe concentration camps.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And they, you know, the womenwould go, you'd never see them
again, would you?
If they got caught.
Yeah.
There would be absolutely nomercy.
(23:51):
the women were doingastonishingly well at this and
they did over 300 runs Sothey're getting really good
results.
I think it's really important tonote that how hard these women
were working with all the, allthe hurdles that were in their
way.
Sadly, the Soviet Union men inthe armies and the Red Army
(24:11):
didn't take the women seriously,despite them doing so well.
But look at the results of whatthey're achieving.
The women were completelyundeterred by the lack of faith
from the men, thank God.
And they actually ended upembracing the fact that they
were different.
So they would paint flowers onthe aircraft and they would make
(24:32):
sure when they went out, theydid their lips bright red, like
out on the town.
Yeah.
They were like, no, we are womenand we're going to own that,
their bravery was absolutelyunmatched throughout this.
It was the amount of danger theywere in.
We could not understate.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
And to continue going out evenwithout the support from the
other sort of regiments as well.
(24:55):
To just be really working, doingtheir own thing in their own
way.
Yeah, and you're still fightingfor your country.
That's still what you're doing.
You're still having thispatriotic symbolism.
You know, you're still puttingyour life on the So, yeah.
Yeah, um, there was a notableincident, which I think
epitomizes everything we've beentalking about.
(25:16):
So in December 1942, so dead ofwinter, there was an air raid,
by a pilot called Nina.
Her plane was hit by a Germanmissile and it ripped out the
entire cockpit.
So she's still in the seat.
Her legs are dangling.
She's bleeding from shrapnel allover.
(25:37):
The Germans have night So thesefloodlights and they temporarily
blinded her.
She's trying to gain control ofthis aircraft, because she
didn't want to land in the enemyterritory, which makes complete
sense.
Imagine if you landed in theGerman territory.
Somehow she manages to retain,control and navigate to a
(26:01):
neutral territory, not her ownbasement neutral ground.
Mm-Hmm.
and her and her navigator bothsurvive that Wow.
So even without a cockpit andher legs just dangling, she
manages to navigate her way inthe dead of night to safety.
So these little planes arepretty resilient actually, if
they're sort of taking a missilestrike and still able to
(26:22):
navigate back.
Yeah, I don't know.
Because it helps that they're sobasic.
Yeah, and I imagine navigateback means glide.
I imagine, yeah.
They'd surely be gliding.
I think we're in hang gliderterritory at this point.
But you know, she still did it.
Um, when they get back to base,they have surgery, both of them.
And As soon as they, completedtheir surgery back, they got
(26:47):
back in their plane and theywent again.
I love that spirit.
yeah, it's really impressive.
Absolutely.
And that's just one story.
Yeah, to maintain the presenceof mind once you've been hit.
To actually think to navigatesomewhere neutral.
And still have the willpower tothen get back to somewhere that
can help.
Yeah.
(27:07):
Rather than just sort of totallyBecause these aren't, these
aren't lifelong combat veterans,are they become.
Okay.
Yeah.
audio1761446526 (27:19):
The women, like you said, they had skill and
like I said, there was somelevel of flying ability, but
they actually continued to havereally successful careers in
combat, in For their country,many became lieutenant colonels,
they had varied careers at alllevels, remember, so they kind
(27:40):
of infiltrated the system, usingthe war to infiltrate that
because again, these are allSTEM subjects, aren't they?
They're all things that,Historically, women have
struggled to get into, and, theyseized that did amazingly well,
their tenacity of this and usingthat plane to their It's.
(28:02):
It's wild, over the course ofthe war, the regiment logged 2,
672 combat missions between themthey destroyed 7 river
crossings, 9 railways, 2 railwaystations, 26 warehouses, 12 fuel
(28:22):
droves, 176 armed cars and 11searchlights.
So they were good.
Yeah, yeah.
They were really causing havocthough.
Right, this is so important.
They were contributing to thatwar.
They were slowing the enemydown.
They were causing hard hittingdamage and protecting, you know,
(28:45):
protecting their country in areal tangible And like those 11
searchlights they took out, or11 fewer searchlights, to look
for the other planes that areflying out from the other
regiments.
It sort of all contributes,isn't it?
It's really a single standoutaction that does it.
It's about everyone chippingaway.
I love it.
On top of that, they alsodelivered 155 aid drops of food
(29:08):
and ammunition across theiracross Soviet land.
I mean, based on how much theycould carry, I'd imagine a food
drop is basically a sandwich.
Or is it a single serving ofborscht?
It's true, just some, like, I'ma celebrity.
That's all you're getting.
That's all you're getting.
Yeah, it's true.
(29:29):
But they must have had a certainlevel of accuracy, even though
they only had a compass and amap.
The accuracy is what I can'tfathom.
Well yeah, I mean to get asearchlight or an armed car,
that's pretty spot on.
So they must have been flyingpretty low as well.
It's just everything about itsounds incredibly dangerous.
Unfortunately, Maria Raskova waskilled in combat in So just
(29:54):
concluded, her bravery andvision is fully recognized And
she became the first member ofthe Soviet military state So
this, yeah, post war.
And I think that kind of harksback to her political, an um, I
(30:18):
was going to say vibe, butthat's not the word, like Oh,
she's got a total vibe.
Yeah.
Yeah, vibe is really what shewas aiming for when she embarked
on all so hard for that word andI was like, it's not there, it's
not there.
Thread, maybe like a thread.
That's a hit and a miss rightthere, Vicky.
It was, it really was.
It's because I haven't writtenit down.
If I leave my notes and ad libit all goes wrong.
(30:39):
Swing and a miss is what Imeant.
It's not a hit and a miss, youcan't hit it and miss it.
Oh no, now you're doing it, nowyou're doing it.
Oh god, now I've been vickied.
Disgusting.
I infect, I infect and spread.
Um, yeah, which shows how Howvalued she was, I think, by the
(31:01):
ruling class, to have a, and bethe first member to have a
military state funeral, and forit to be a woman, and for her to
have made herself in thatposition.
She wasn't given that position,she made herself have that
position.
Purely on, purely on merit,wasn't it?
merit and hard work.
I mean, she was a hero of theSoviet Union before any of this.
(31:23):
So afterwards, I mean, shealready had the medal in the
stamp.
Yeah.
And it just kind of encapsulatesnot her fame, but her, that
position and how cool it Didthat she passed that ladder made
(31:44):
sure other skills were it's veryunder think, which is the
purpose of this podcast.
We find women you don't knowabout who history.
her ashes are in red square andshe was given the order of
because, uh, not?
Um, that is a class for war.
(32:07):
Heroics, a And she is foreverknown as Mother of the Night
Very cool.
What do you think her legacy is,today?
Is she still spoken about in theSoviet Union?
Do people still find it sort ofcompelling?
(32:27):
The fact that her ashes are inRed Square, that is jewel, isn't
it, of Russia.
I think her legacy in Russia isknown.
I think that's but is it knownto the right extent, the
question.
the story is celebrated.
They, there was more stamps, somore stamps were issued in their
honor.
They do love a stamp.
(32:49):
Love a commemorative stamp.
Probably a first day cover.
It's true.
It's true.
their legacy in deals withsymbolism of resilience and
empowerment, despite the lack ofsupport from their male
counterparts.
So I don't know what It soundslike Stalin was obviously that
doesn't fall straight down intothe rest but then that's know.
(33:12):
I do think people know her, butI don't think the get at.
No, no, never heard it.
But, what a story.
What a fascinating thing.
That's incredible.
Fascinating.
incredible and the pictures inthese pictures that they look
happy and they look just likeenergized by this like yeah kind
(33:35):
of i'm doing good and i knowobviously they're posing for but
like i do think This is whatpisses me off that they're all,
when you think of war, you thinkof a skinny, young Boy, that's
(33:55):
what you think of.
But there's so many otherThere's so many different types
of soldier.
There's so many other culturesthat were involved.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
we're, we're going to Poland.
Aren't we soon?
Which is very exciting.
And that's one of the reasons Iwant to go because I want to
learn the what happened becausethey were absolutely devastated
(34:19):
by the war but we don't knowthat This picture that you've
got of them, when I think ofpictures of soldiers in the war,
usually, particularly World WarOne, and World War Two, as are
like conscripts, and probablynot that chuffed to be there,
whereas they've got a look aboutthem of sort of pride in what
they're doing, and a real,almost like a privilege to be
doing it, proud to be there,proud to be doing their bit.
(34:41):
The story actually reallyreminds me, modern day aircraft,
I say modern, I think it'sreally sort of late 70s.
It came out, but it's still inactive service today.
It's called the Warthog.
It's the A10 Thunderbolt.
It's a US plane.
and it's not a sexy fighter.
You think of a fighter jet, youthink of sort of Top Gun, and
Tom Cruise going around and, uh,like, total alpha male yeehawing
(35:06):
through the sky.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
But then you have the Warthog,and it's, it's subsonic, but it
does a lot of troop support, andit's absolutely crucial for
actually supporting groundtroops either getting them out
of trouble or assisting inwhatever their mission is and
it's almost indestructible likesome of them come back missing
an engine they got bullet holesall through them but they still
keep on flying and it reminds meof Nina with her legs dangling
(35:29):
out underneath but she's been onthe mission and there's a lot of
female pilots fly warthogs farmore than the sort of fast jets
what you think of as the dogfighting jets but these are real
workhorses of planes in theinfantry type Wars Reminded me a
lot of them.
So that's the Love it.
(35:49):
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
I will change my first thoughtof witches from now on.
Oh, that's true.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We've smashed through so manystereotypes today.
None of these women look wartyor haggard.
Not yet.
Not yet, no.
No, that's awesome.
(36:10):
Well, thank you, Vicky.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for all yoursupport we're having a lovely
Yeah, thanks for all yourfeedback and comments and
suggestions, I'm sure we'll haveone of your suggested, we'll
have an episode soon.
Yes.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Please, if you enjoyed it, rate,subscribe, comment, share with
(36:32):
your friends, share with yourmother, your father.
And yeah, we'll see you foranother Cheers all.
Bye.
Bye.
I've done one in Hereford most recently, but
not the Simmons Yacht Pottery.
Is that, are they good?
It's called Yacht Pottery, butit's in Ross.
Oh yeah.
Nice yellow sign.
It's a really good art shop aswell.
Got a nice lot of stuff inthere.
And the guy was really lovely.
he's very technical and veryknowledgeable, obviously, and
he, I just love are just at onewith what they do, you know what
(00:32):
I mean, like, he's just so happyhe's found his thing.
He loves ceramics.
Oh, that's gorgeous, isn't it?
It was like oozing out of himand, yeah.
That is more you buy into isn'tit than the shop or anything.
It's more the guy.
So yeah, he was really sweet.
And I just love it.
I love it when have found theirthing and yeah, it was, it
(00:53):
doesn't really matter what thatthing is.
Oh my gosh.
I'm such a sucker.
I'll come along with anything.
Oh my gosh, you want to dowatercolours?
Great! you know what I mean?
Whatever it is, let's go.
I'm fully on board.
If you're passionate about it,let's go.
So I'm, like a little leech.
I leech onto people and theirhobbies, so, rather than make my
(01:15):
own.
Shall we do this?
Let's go.
Hi everyone.
Welcome back to She ChangedHistory with me, Simon.
I'm Vicky.
Hi.
Hi Vicky.
How are you doing?
Hello.
I'm good.
Moved back into the officetoday, so I don't have, I think
A wonderful green background.
(01:35):
And my map, I feel like the mapweirdly gave me a lot of
gravitas in my background, andthis is a very neutral Petru, so
I feel like I've lost mygravitas, which is a bit sad.
I think the dressing gown isreally adding gravitas for you.
It's just the same, it's justthe same, it's a real
intellectual's dressing gown,that is.
Yes, thank you, thank you.
Bye bye.
What have you got for us today?
(01:56):
So this one is very, I say thisabout them all, but this one's
very exciting.
I know.
So imagine this, a cold, silentnight during World War II.
Suddenly, the sound of the windwhispers above as planes, barely
visible, glide through thedarkness, their engines cut,
(02:17):
undetectable, until bombs beginto rain down.
These were no ordinary pilots.
They were the Night Witches, anall female Soviet bomber
regiment that outsmarted theNazis using wooden aeroplanes,
unmatched bravery, and sheercourage.
Get ready to uncover theextraordinary story of these
fearless women who turned thetide of war under the cover of
(02:41):
sound pretty exciting.
It sounds so cool.
Yeah, you're right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, we've got lots of sources.
I first found this story on, myfavorite murder podcast, episode
406.
So that's where I kind ofstarted my research and there's
loads more in there.
There's a Vanity Fair articlefrom 2015.
there's a Grey Dynamics articlefrom 2022.
(03:03):
Um, Discover magazine articlealso from 2022.
Loads and loads and loads.
So we'll pop those in our shownotes as always.
so the Night Witches.
When you think of witches, Idunno, what do you think when I
say witch?
Uh, sort of hacked woman on abroom.
Hacked.
You can say hacked, but youknow, sort of, uh, gnarly.
(03:26):
And warty.
And gnarly.
Cackling.
Narly.
Love it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So evil.
old is another one, isn't it?
Like cauldrons patients, allthat kind of stuff.
I'm going to tear that notionaway from you and rip it up into
lots of little pieces becausethis one is very much, so it's
quite modern ish history, we'rein World War II, a little bit of
(03:49):
war context, obviously we knowwhat World War II is about, but
it's a very specific part ofWorld War II.
In 1939, Germany invaded Polandand there was a a Molotov ribbon
drop pact between the SovietUnion and Germany to avoid
mutual aggression.
So basically Stalin and Hitlerwere like had a little bit of a
(04:13):
peace, troops, and in 1941,Hitler, being Hitler, broke that
pact on June the Couldn't trusthim, could you?
Well, it's just very Hitler,it's a very Hitler thing to do.
Classic Hitler.
Classic Hitler.
Um, so this prompted Stalin toretaliate.
there is an argument that ifHitler hadn't have broken this
(04:37):
pact, that He would have won thewar basically because this
amount of retaliation Stalin andSoviet Union was just unrivaled.
so the Soviet Union wasundertaken by Germany and Stalin
expanded all his efforts.
So tanks, aviation, everythingof the Red Army.
(04:59):
Enter women.
women in, war took roles thatyou would expect them to take.
So I'm thinking nurses, I'mthinking sewing, making the
uniforms, basically anything onland, anything on land, on high
territory.
Maintenance.
That's it.
Yeah.
In, Soviet Union, women werecompletely banned from air
(05:20):
force.
in its entirety.
Some women were actually in thesniper teams and some of them
made ditch traps, which aretraps in a ditch that trap
tanks, basically is what itsays, what it says on the tin.
And I was like, yes, this is,this is what I thought it makes
a lot of sense.
(05:42):
So they were doing, they weredoing little physical stuff, but
like you said, but mainlysupportive maintenance roles.
Right.
these women were.
angry, upset.
They had gone through so muchloss already in terms of family,
their home, land.
They've been betrayedpolitically and otherwise.
And they were, they were angry,which is a lot of women that we
(06:07):
cover.
They are angry women.
Yeah.
it's usually some sort ofinjustice that kicks these
things off.
Absolutely.
Do you think they were, werethey sort of smarting for a
fight?
Did they want to get involvedand fight someone, whoever that
may be?
Absolutely.
They really sought out thesecombat roles.
They wanted, and I think some ofthat is cultural as well.
(06:27):
So Many Soviet women already hadexperience of things like flying
planes.
It was just part of theirculture.
Their land is very different toour land.
It's very vast.
Yeah.
And it was quite a usual thing.
It wasn't unheard of, of womento be flying.
Enter Marina Raskova.
Who has been dubbed, which Ilove this term, the mother of
(06:49):
the night, which an amazingtitle.
That's cool.
So who is Marina?
She was born on March 28th,1912.
And when she was little, shewanted to be an opera singer,
which isn't that just the cutestthing, love it.
Yeah.
At the age of 13, her fatherdied when he was hit by a
motorcycle.
(07:10):
He wasn't hit, uh, died in theimpact.
He actually dies from infectionAnd.
Because of that loss of apatriarch, like many of the
other women we've covered on thepodcast, she was expected to
help financially.
So Marina worked to support herfamily, studying engineering and
chemistry.
(07:32):
Wow.
She worked as a chemist in a dyefactory, so dyeing fabrics.
She married and then sheactually later joined the Air
Force in a technical role.
And by technical role, I meanlike technical drawings and
plans and using that mathematicsand engineering.
So she really understands thedesign of aircraft, how they
(07:54):
work, how they function.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And this was for aircraft at thetime.
She excels at that.
She's very, very good.
She has a great reputation.
she's pulling on all thesedifferent strings that she has.
One year later.
She starts practicing to becomea pilot and also an instructor.
So she's, this is her thing,this is her jam, she's loving
(08:15):
it.
She's clever, she's got theskills to Just like she was very
good at technical drawings,turns out she's very good at
flying.
So she becomes the first femaleaviation instructor in the
Soviet Union in 1933.
She is part of the flying clubin Tohishino.
So she's like 21 when she doesthat.
I know.
It's great, isn't it?
(08:35):
She officially becomes one in1935.
At this time she actuallydivorces, so she was married and
had a child before that, becauseshe, and it's a very conscious
decision for her so she canfocus on her career.
It's very much cited as this isme, this is what I want to do, I
feel I want to take the path,And she does that, so she racks
(08:57):
up loads and loads of hours offlying experience.
She sets multiple internationalflight records, for example, the
998 mile non stop flight onOctober the 24th, 1937.
She's so good at flying.
She is awarded Hero of theSoviet Union and the Order of
the Lenning.
(09:18):
She also gains fame during thistime.
Mm-Hmm.
And she becomes known as theSoviet's Amelia Earhart which is
like a similar timeframe.
Yeah.
So she's racking up these hours.
She's racking up thisexperience.
We know she's got good technicalskills because of where she
started.
And now we know that she's gotreally good practical skills as
(09:40):
well.
wonder if in Russia, when theytalk about Amelia Earhart, they
describe her as the AmericanMarina Raskova.
I really hope so.
If not, we should write to them.
I hope there's that symmetry.
Yes, so because she's very goodand she's got all this fame, she
actually gets to meet Stalin,who shows great admiration for
(10:01):
what she's achieved.
It's quite, meritocracy kind ofrise actually.
So it's somebody who worked veryhard, and got rewarded for that.
He, issues a commemorative stampbecause he's so impressed And
Marina has a lot of pride forher country.
She's very patriotic.
(10:22):
at this time, so this is whenthe timelines overlap slightly.
So we've got Hitler breaking hispact and then we've got Marina's
coming up through the ranks andshe actually starts lobbying
Stalin to allow women intocombat roles.
So she's using her position ofnewly Found power and nearly
(10:45):
found fame to hero of the SovietUnion just casually Um, so she
uses that to break the moldbasically and be like, what are
you talking about?
I'm perfect Yeah.
And like, nobody can with that,with her sort of international
(11:05):
records and her experience indesigning, and she's like being
given this highest honor of thecountry.
Nobody can then say, Oh, well,no women can't fly planes.
Yeah, exactly.
Here I am.
Look at my stamp.
Yeah.
Look at my stamp.
That is such an awesome brag.
(11:29):
Yeah.
Look at my stamp, bitches.
Look at it, man.
So she lobbies him successfully.
Stalin says yes, which is great.
So, um, this leads to, Marinaforming three regiments, all
women, all female aviationregiments, she's like,
(11:50):
overseeing it all really.
So he suddenly allows women todraft it for the war of the
people who, drafted 1000 arechosen to serve and.
obviously the war is raging onand they have to do this
quickly, so they have to betrained up quite quick.
Normally when you enteraviation, it's 18 months of
(12:13):
training that men are normallygiven.
Um, but you know, Hitler's doinghis thing.
That means they only have sixmonths to do the same amount of
training.
So they come up with a trainingplan.
Yeah.
They managed to cut a year outof that and, and they worked
very hard.
So this is in plane maintenance,navigation, combat, piloting,
(12:34):
the whole shebang, right?
So Marina sets up threesquadrons, The first is the
586th Fighter Aviation Regiment.
This is commanded by TamaraCazza Renova, sadly, very
quickly, dies in combat so she'slost quite early on.
(12:54):
She is later replaced byAlexander Grid who is a man so
that quickly becomes a mixedgender regiment.
this is the first regiment thatis set up and because of that it
gets the best recruits into thatsquadron.
Okay.
And it kind of leaves littlerecognition when compared to the
other two regiments.
Mm-Hmm.
So it's first come, first servekind of vibe.
(13:16):
it also included the pilot,Liliana Li Litvac, who was the
first woman to shoot down anenemy plane, and ballerina Kova,
who is the first woman to shootdown an enemy aircraft at night.
So these women are doing itThey're trained, they've worked
(13:37):
really hard, they're, you know,patriotic, they're amazing
things.
And just that any pilot on anyside was able to shoot down any
plane is incredible, because Imean there's no like guided
missiles back then, there's noheat seeking missiles, there's
no fire and forget, they're justpointing their plane in a
direction with this machine gunon the front.
(13:58):
That is such a good point, the,their equipment compared to
today's is your polar polaropposites apart.
And I think sometimes we forgetthat don't mean because we talk
about these walls a lot.
it kind of negates that a littlebit, I and, like we spoke about
it previously Ella Hatton,pistols and they're different
(14:21):
pistols.
Yeah, today we have like anautomatic gun was that it.
requires to a certain extentless skill, you could argue,
couldn't you?
Yeah, so my grandfather was anavigator in the RAF in World
War II.
Oh my gosh.
But I mean, he grew up in Londonwhen there were still horses in
the streets making deliveries.
Of course.
And they had like multi storeystables.
(14:43):
in the middle of the city.
So this is, it's like really atransition period.
There's, we don't have computersat this time.
There's no, there's nothing hightech, it's very much sort of
still these technologicalremnants of the Victorian era.
I always think that, um, notch,in Peaky Blinders, because they
start off on horses, don't they?
(15:04):
And then by the end, he's gotlike a fleet of cars, yeah, it's
just the same.
It's exactly the same, yeah.
So that's the first regiment.
The second regiment is the 587thBomber Regiment.
This is originally led by MarinaRaskova herself.
And then the final regiment,588th Night Bomber Regiment, is
(15:27):
the one we're going to talkabout today, because they became
the Night Now, because it's thethird regiment, If all the great
people went into the first, andthis is the third, your skill is
slightly down.
Okay.
the also the only regiment thatremained completely And this is
in every role.
(15:47):
So I'm thinking pilots, I'mthinking maintenance, I'm
thinking technical, I'm thinkingnavigation, every role, top to
front to back, was had a womanin place.
This regiment became the mostfamous regiment due to their
tactics And their awesome name.
And there's a really cool storybehind the name So, um, pulling
(16:12):
on what you just mentionedearlier, the equipment and these
women are not set up forsuccess, I think is the
headline.
They're not set up to do muchreally, so they're given hand me
down uniforms that are illfitting, they're made for male
soldiers and they're cumbersome.
(16:33):
They got to the point where theyactually impeded action, do what
they wanted to do.
The other thing with theiruniforms is their boots.
So they were all given hand medown men's boots.
They were all issued with a size42 boot regardless.
And because of this, and alsotheir calves are different
(16:54):
sizes, everything, these bootsjust didn't stay on.
Like they were useless and itgot to the point where they were
so ill-fitting that the womentaught up bedsheets, stuffed the
bedsheets in the boots so theycould stay on.
I don't mind wearing a war,right?
Yeah.
We're trying to fight the enemyright here.
It's really not ideal.
I'm not saying, I'm not sayingthe men's uniform was perfect,
(17:18):
but imagine that on a hand medown that is not Mm-Hmm.
Fit for issue.
Right.
The women also cut their hairreally short, so they weren't
recognized as women by theenemies.
One of the pilots would laterrecall in an interview, quote,
we didn't recognize ourselves inthe mirror.
We were all boys out oh, justsuch a powerful line.
(17:41):
On top of that, that's theuniform.
On top of that, we've got theequipment.
So, the best planes went to thebest regiments, much like the
skills.
the planes were outdated.
The women were given a PolikopahPotu, which is made of wood and
canvas.
And it's intended for dustingcrops in a field.
(18:03):
That's what we're using righthere.
I've looked up a picture ofthem, and it looks like, There's
sort of, as you imagine, a realold school chugging along, sort
of biplane.
That's it.
Um, you imagine a fella sittingin there with a scarf over his
neck, sort of fluttering out theback, and a moustache and the
goggles sort of thing.
And you can even see where the,the canvas is stretched over the
(18:24):
wooden ribs of the plane.
I mean, it's amazing that itflies.
Yeah.
I wouldn't fancy going to warwith your little head sticking
out the top.
Again, these women are meant tobe in fighter jets.
This is a farming.
Yeah, it's outdated.
It's very slow.
It's got an open cockpit.
(18:45):
Like you said, like you can seewho's in there, which means the
women are completely uncovered.
They have no protection.
It also limits what they cancarry on board because it's so
weak.
It also can't fly as high.
As the men's planes, which meansthey are much closer to the
enemy's land and the enemy'sAnd, you know, just bombs in
(19:06):
general.
Um, Because it is an opencockpit, this led to frostbite
because as well as everythingelse, the planes lacked
insulation.
Um, it doesn't have any lights.
Why would it?
Um, which means that.
Because they were flying atnight.
This is the night regimen andthey had to be guided purely by
(19:30):
the stars.
Wow I know on top of that.
They have no navigationequipment.
They relied on a map and a Yeah,I'm trying to find sort of
silver linings here but nolights suggests they're quite
stealthy I don't imagine they'revery loud Um, and like they
(19:51):
can't have their equipmentjammed or anything.
I wonder if they even showed upon radar being wood and canvas.
I love how positive you'refeeling.
Fabulous.
I believe in them though.
that's the little speech I tryand give to them.
It's like, no, no, no, thesearen't rubbish planes.
These are exactly the planesthat we need.
Um, they couldn't carryparachutes due to restricted
(20:13):
weight limits and, Like yousaid, one spark, because they're
wooden, it could literally catchfire.
Like, you know, this is asdangerous as it could possibly
be.
Fighting.
This is, we're in a strongdanger zone.
But what did they do, Simon?
They used this to theiradvantage.
So hold on all that positivethinking.
(20:33):
Oh, I love it.
Great.
So, they flew in groups ofthree, so three planes, one in
the middle had the bomb, twowere decoy planes, so they would
peel off in opposite directions,and the middle one would drop
the bomb.
Nazis had big floodlights on theground, so the timing had to be
just right, so they weren'tdetected.
(20:57):
This was a real skill, and whatwould happen is, so the two
planes have peeled off,floodlights are going crazy.
the navigator would tap thepilot on the shoulder because
they can't make any noise andthat was their sign to cut the
engine So now you're glidingright, you're mid air, you're
(21:18):
coasting silently over thesetargets unseen and unheard
because we're in the thick ofnight.
They position themselves overthe enemy below and then they
drop the bombs completelyundetected.
This was too late for the Nazisto even know they were going to
do it.
But it's cool.
(21:39):
not for the Nazis, but that's.
And the only reason they coulddo that was because their planes
are so crap, like, because theywere rickety odd things and they
were light, so they could glide,you know, they used that to
their advantage.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Um, then they would aren't loadsthat would be able to sort of
glide for long like that, Iwouldn't have thought.
(22:01):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Because they could only carrytwo bombs at a time, they'd have
to return to base, reload, andthen go again.
So, they would keep changingformations, so the person on the
outside would then go on the Andthey would keep doing this all
night long, which is amazing.
So they would do anythingbetween eight and eighteen
(22:24):
missions per night.
So they were really refiningthis, they were getting really
good.
Oh man, it must have pissed theNazis off.
Oh god, that's irritating, isn'tit?
It's the best.
So it was the Nazis thatactually gave them the nickname,
uh, Nachhausen, which is nightwitches because of their stealth
(22:46):
and their efficiency.
There was also rumours amongstthe Nazis that whoever were
flying these planes, becausethey didn't know, took pills or
had some kind of chemical forcat like night vision.
Oh, that's great.
They probably started thatrumour themselves.
You know what I've heard.
but also because, you know,they, women can't possibly be
(23:09):
doing this.
It must be some pill.
It must be some chemical.
It's got to be some sort ofsupernatural woman.
Yeah.
the fear of the night, which iswas so strong that if a German
soldier shot down a night, whichthey would be awarded an iron
cross, which is one of thehighest medals you could get.
Yeah, because the fear of thesenight vultures was so strong.
(23:31):
the Nazis didn't actually knowthat these planes were flown by
women, because imagine if theydid know.
If they did know.
You know, it'd be straight tothe concentration camps.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And they, you know, the womenwould go, you'd never see them
again, would you?
If they got caught.
Yeah.
There would be absolutely nomercy.
(23:51):
the women were doingastonishingly well at this and
they did over 300 runs Sothey're getting really good
results.
I think it's really important tonote that how hard these women
were working with all the, allthe hurdles that were in their
way.
Sadly, the Soviet Union men inthe armies and the Red Army
(24:11):
didn't take the women seriously,despite them doing so well.
But look at the results of whatthey're achieving.
The women were completelyundeterred by the lack of faith
from the men, thank God.
And they actually ended upembracing the fact that they
were different.
So they would paint flowers onthe aircraft and they would make
(24:32):
sure when they went out, theydid their lips bright red, like
out on the town.
Yeah.
They were like, no, we are womenand we're going to own that,
their bravery was absolutelyunmatched throughout this.
It was the amount of danger theywere in.
We could not understate.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
And to continue going out evenwithout the support from the
other sort of regiments as well.
(24:55):
To just be really working, doingtheir own thing in their own
way.
Yeah, and you're still fightingfor your country.
That's still what you're doing.
You're still having thispatriotic symbolism.
You know, you're still puttingyour life on the So, yeah.
Yeah, um, there was a notableincident, which I think
epitomizes everything we've beentalking about.
(25:16):
So in December 1942, so dead ofwinter, there was an air raid,
by a pilot called Nina.
Her plane was hit by a Germanmissile and it ripped out the
entire cockpit.
So she's still in the seat.
Her legs are dangling.
She's bleeding from shrapnel allover.
(25:37):
The Germans have night So thesefloodlights and they temporarily
blinded her.
She's trying to gain control ofthis aircraft, because she
didn't want to land in the enemyterritory, which makes complete
sense.
Imagine if you landed in theGerman territory.
Somehow she manages to retain,control and navigate to a
(26:01):
neutral territory, not her ownbasement neutral ground.
Mm-Hmm.
and her and her navigator bothsurvive that Wow.
So even without a cockpit andher legs just dangling, she
manages to navigate her way inthe dead of night to safety.
So these little planes arepretty resilient actually, if
they're sort of taking a missilestrike and still able to
(26:22):
navigate back.
Yeah, I don't know.
Because it helps that they're sobasic.
Yeah, and I imagine navigateback means glide.
I imagine, yeah.
They'd surely be gliding.
I think we're in hang gliderterritory at this point.
But you know, she still did it.
Um, when they get back to base,they have surgery, both of them.
And As soon as they, completedtheir surgery back, they got
(26:47):
back in their plane and theywent again.
I love that spirit.
yeah, it's really impressive.
Absolutely.
And that's just one story.
Yeah, to maintain the presenceof mind once you've been hit.
To actually think to navigatesomewhere neutral.
And still have the willpower tothen get back to somewhere that
can help.
Yeah.
(27:07):
Rather than just sort of totallyBecause these aren't, these
aren't lifelong combat veterans,are they become.
Okay.
Yeah.
audio1761446526 (27:19):
The women, like you said, they had skill and
like I said, there was somelevel of flying ability, but
they actually continued to havereally successful careers in
combat, in For their country,many became lieutenant colonels,
they had varied careers at alllevels, remember, so they kind
(27:40):
of infiltrated the system, usingthe war to infiltrate that
because again, these are allSTEM subjects, aren't they?
They're all things that,Historically, women have
struggled to get into, and, theyseized that did amazingly well,
their tenacity of this and usingthat plane to their It's.
(28:02):
It's wild, over the course ofthe war, the regiment logged 2,
672 combat missions between themthey destroyed 7 river
crossings, 9 railways, 2 railwaystations, 26 warehouses, 12 fuel
(28:22):
droves, 176 armed cars and 11searchlights.
So they were good.
Yeah, yeah.
They were really causing havocthough.
Right, this is so important.
They were contributing to thatwar.
They were slowing the enemydown.
They were causing hard hittingdamage and protecting, you know,
(28:45):
protecting their country in areal tangible And like those 11
searchlights they took out, or11 fewer searchlights, to look
for the other planes that areflying out from the other
regiments.
It sort of all contributes,isn't it?
It's really a single standoutaction that does it.
It's about everyone chippingaway.
I love it.
On top of that, they alsodelivered 155 aid drops of food
(29:08):
and ammunition across theiracross Soviet land.
I mean, based on how much theycould carry, I'd imagine a food
drop is basically a sandwich.
Or is it a single serving ofborscht?
It's true, just some, like, I'ma celebrity.
That's all you're getting.
That's all you're getting.
Yeah, it's true.
(29:29):
But they must have had a certainlevel of accuracy, even though
they only had a compass and amap.
The accuracy is what I can'tfathom.
Well yeah, I mean to get asearchlight or an armed car,
that's pretty spot on.
So they must have been flyingpretty low as well.
It's just everything about itsounds incredibly dangerous.
Unfortunately, Maria Raskova waskilled in combat in So just
(29:54):
concluded, her bravery andvision is fully recognized And
she became the first member ofthe Soviet military state So
this, yeah, post war.
And I think that kind of harksback to her political, an um, I
(30:18):
was going to say vibe, butthat's not the word, like Oh,
she's got a total vibe.
Yeah.
Yeah, vibe is really what shewas aiming for when she embarked
on all so hard for that word andI was like, it's not there, it's
not there.
Thread, maybe like a thread.
That's a hit and a miss rightthere, Vicky.
It was, it really was.
It's because I haven't writtenit down.
If I leave my notes and ad libit all goes wrong.
(30:39):
Swing and a miss is what Imeant.
It's not a hit and a miss, youcan't hit it and miss it.
Oh no, now you're doing it, nowyou're doing it.
Oh god, now I've been vickied.
Disgusting.
I infect, I infect and spread.
Um, yeah, which shows how Howvalued she was, I think, by the
(31:01):
ruling class, to have a, and bethe first member to have a
military state funeral, and forit to be a woman, and for her to
have made herself in thatposition.
She wasn't given that position,she made herself have that
position.
Purely on, purely on merit,wasn't it?
merit and hard work.
I mean, she was a hero of theSoviet Union before any of this.
(31:23):
So afterwards, I mean, shealready had the medal in the
stamp.
Yeah.
And it just kind of encapsulatesnot her fame, but her, that
position and how cool it Didthat she passed that ladder made
(31:44):
sure other skills were it's veryunder think, which is the
purpose of this podcast.
We find women you don't knowabout who history.
her ashes are in red square andshe was given the order of
because, uh, not?
Um, that is a class for war.
(32:07):
Heroics, a And she is foreverknown as Mother of the Night
Very cool.
What do you think her legacy is,today?
Is she still spoken about in theSoviet Union?
Do people still find it sort ofcompelling?
(32:27):
The fact that her ashes are inRed Square, that is jewel, isn't
it, of Russia.
I think her legacy in Russia isknown.
I think that's but is it knownto the right extent, the
question.
the story is celebrated.
They, there was more stamps, somore stamps were issued in their
honor.
They do love a stamp.
(32:49):
Love a commemorative stamp.
Probably a first day cover.
It's true.
It's true.
their legacy in deals withsymbolism of resilience and
empowerment, despite the lack ofsupport from their male
counterparts.
So I don't know what It soundslike Stalin was obviously that
doesn't fall straight down intothe rest but then that's know.
(33:12):
I do think people know her, butI don't think the get at.
No, no, never heard it.
But, what a story.
What a fascinating thing.
That's incredible.
Fascinating.
incredible and the pictures inthese pictures that they look
happy and they look just likeenergized by this like yeah kind
(33:35):
of i'm doing good and i knowobviously they're posing for but
like i do think This is whatpisses me off that they're all,
when you think of war, you thinkof a skinny, young Boy, that's
(33:55):
what you think of.
But there's so many otherThere's so many different types
of soldier.
There's so many other culturesthat were involved.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
we're, we're going to Poland.
Aren't we soon?
Which is very exciting.
And that's one of the reasons Iwant to go because I want to
learn the what happened becausethey were absolutely devastated
(34:19):
by the war but we don't knowthat This picture that you've
got of them, when I think ofpictures of soldiers in the war,
usually, particularly World WarOne, and World War Two, as are
like conscripts, and probablynot that chuffed to be there,
whereas they've got a look aboutthem of sort of pride in what
they're doing, and a real,almost like a privilege to be
doing it, proud to be there,proud to be doing their bit.
(34:41):
The story actually reallyreminds me, modern day aircraft,
I say modern, I think it'sreally sort of late 70s.
It came out, but it's still inactive service today.
It's called the Warthog.
It's the A10 Thunderbolt.
It's a US plane.
and it's not a sexy fighter.
You think of a fighter jet, youthink of sort of Top Gun, and
Tom Cruise going around and, uh,like, total alpha male yeehawing
(35:06):
through the sky.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
But then you have the Warthog,and it's, it's subsonic, but it
does a lot of troop support, andit's absolutely crucial for
actually supporting groundtroops either getting them out
of trouble or assisting inwhatever their mission is and
it's almost indestructible likesome of them come back missing
an engine they got bullet holesall through them but they still
keep on flying and it reminds meof Nina with her legs dangling
(35:29):
out underneath but she's been onthe mission and there's a lot of
female pilots fly warthogs farmore than the sort of fast jets
what you think of as the dogfighting jets but these are real
workhorses of planes in theinfantry type Wars Reminded me a
lot of them.
So that's the Love it.
(35:49):
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
I will change my first thoughtof witches from now on.
Oh, that's true.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We've smashed through so manystereotypes today.
None of these women look wartyor haggard.
Not yet.
Not yet, no.
No, that's awesome.
(36:10):
Well, thank you, Vicky.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for all yoursupport we're having a lovely
Yeah, thanks for all yourfeedback and comments and
suggestions, I'm sure we'll haveone of your suggested, we'll
have an episode soon.
Yes.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Please, if you enjoyed it, rate,subscribe, comment, share with
(36:32):
your friends, share with yourmother, your father.
And yeah, we'll see you foranother Cheers all.
Bye.
Bye.
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