September 9, 2025 • 26 mins
From art student to music publishing powerhouse, Annette Barrett's 40-year career reveals the invisible architecture behind some of music's biggest moments. Sarah and Annette discuss her remarkable journey that began with a chance opportunity at Carlin Music and led to groundbreaking work with legends like David Bowie, Madonna, Prince, and Elton John.
With the perfect blend of business acumen and creative intuition, Barrett explains how her foundation in copyright law combined with her artist's sensibility created the "magical combo" that shaped her success. As the first woman appointed to Warner Chapel's board of directors and now managing director of Reservoir-Reverb Music, she shares the philosophy that guided her through decades of industry evolution: "It all starts with a song."
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when Barrett reveals her lifelong friendship with David Bowie, which began during her art studies at the Sorbonne in Paris. He was also a student there. This personal connection to one of music's greatest innovators adds rich context to her understanding of creative minds and her ability to nurture songwriting talent.
Barrett's pioneering international perspective transformed how the industry operates. Long before globalization became standard practice, she was connecting songwriters across borders and cultures, creating what she calls "cross-pollination" that sparked unexpected creative magic. Her anecdote about introducing Danish producer Cutfather to Nashville songwriters—resulting in a number one hit with Pink and Keith Urban—perfectly illustrates her talent for seeing potential collaborations others miss.
As co-founder and president of the Independent Music Publishers Forum (IMPF), Barrett continues championing independent voices in the industry, organizing global songwriting camps and advocating for songwriters' rights. Her commitment to "giving something back" through mentorship and advocacy demonstrates why she remains such an influential figure in music publishing.
Ready to discover more about the women powering the music industry? Subscribe to She Creates Noise for conversations that illuminate the brilliant women working behind the scenes to create the soundtrack of our lives.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hi, you're listening to Sarah Nagourney and welcome
to.
She Creates Noise, a newpodcast spotlighting women who
power the music industry, comingto you from New York City.
Now, if you don't know me yet,here's a little background.
I'm a songwriter, producer,manager, educator and mentor.
I've written platinum sellingsongs, had tracks on Grammy
nominated educator and mentor.
(00:45):
I've written platinum-sellingsongs, had tracks on
Grammy-nominated records andreleased music on both major and
independent labels.
I've been a jazz singer, ajingle singer, toured with big
bands and became a pop artist,and I've performed at festivals
across the US, europe and Asia.
These days, I focus on writingwith and developing young talent
.
In the coming weeks, I'll bepulling back the curtain on the
(01:07):
music industry's femalechangemakers.
Some are close friends, othersI'm just getting to know, but
all have reshaped the businessin profound ways.
My goal here is to helplisteners better understand how
the music business really worksand just how instrumental women
behind the scenes have been.
You'll hear from both sides ofthe desk artists, producers,
(01:32):
managers, label executives,lawyers.
Women making things happen,often without the spotlight on
them.
Thank you for joining me onthis journey.
Now let's dive in.
Thank you for joining me onthis journey.
Now let's dive in.
Today, I'd like to welcomeAnnette Barrett.
(01:53):
Annette Barrett is a veteranmusic publishing executive with
over 40 years of experience.
She began her career atUK-based Carlin Music and rose
through the ranks to hold seniorpositions at Virgin Music and
Warner Chapel, where she becamethe first woman appointed to the
board of directors.
Since 2001, annette has servedas managing director of
Reservoir Reverb Music, workingwith top-tier songwriters like
Jamie Hartman, ina Rolson andNittan Soni.
(02:15):
Under her leadership, thecompany has been behind major
hits including Human and Giantby Rag and Bone man and how Deep
Is your Love by Calvin Harrisand the Disciples.
Annette has also worked withlegendary artists such as David
Bowie, george Michael, eltonJohn, eric Clapton, madonna and
Prince.
A passionate supporter ofemerging talent, she continues
(02:36):
to mentor the next generation ofsongwriters.
In 2014, she co-founded theIndependent Music Publishers
Forum, the IMPF, and wasre-elected to president in 2021,
advocating for independentpublishers and songwriters on a
global scale.
Please welcome, annette Barrett.
I was thinking about how longI've known you.
(03:00):
I'm thinking, am I allowed tosay Well?
Speaker 4 (03:02):
yeah, absolutely yeah , yeah, well, I'm very honored.
Thank you, um, uh, yes, ofcourse you are.
Yeah, how long is it?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
well, you were at mortars.
It's probably pushing 30 years.
It's before my daughter wasborn, so 27 or something like
that wow time flies.
Yeah, I want to sort of mentionyou know.
One of the things I want tobring up here is what an
interesting journey you've hadand how much you and people like
you have trailblazed for thewomen in the business that have
(03:33):
come after you.
And if you could tell us alittle bit of how you fell into
this crazy business, that wouldbe fantastic.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Yeah, well, it has been a long journey actually,
but I guess I love it.
I think it's certainly who I am.
It's part of you know, it's inmy DNA.
So, yeah, well, I came into itactually by way of art, which
was it was always art music inschool anyway.
I mean that's what I loved.
But I managed to get ascholarship We'll go back to
(04:00):
that maybe later at the Sorbonneactually in Paris.
So I was very lucky and I spenta year studying fine art in
Paris and, anyway, came back,did my A-levels, then went to St
Martin School of Art, which wasfantastic, but I just like came
out there going, well, you knownow what do I do, but I mean I
(04:21):
was doing a lot of private work,so that was quite nice.
So, a friend, through a friendof a friend or whatever, and
I've always loved music and Iwas always at shows and gigs and
I did know a lot of people inthe music business actually, and
somebody said, oh, there's ajob at Carlin Music actually it
was which was a very establishedold well now, I mean old
(04:41):
catalogue, I mean Elvis Presley,I mean catalogue, I mean Elvis
Presley, and I mean there was,it was you know me, it was there
, it was just fantastic and itwas, it was a great um learning
curve.
And so someone said to me well,why don't you go in and see,
and see what you, you know, Iloved creating.
(05:03):
I was very much into the wholesort of interacting, networking
and social thing.
I felt, and I think that's whyI really is very aligned with
songwriters.
I understand when you're in astudio and you're creating
something, it's like is this anygood, where am I going to go
with this?
What am I going to do with it?
You know, and so you know, it'svery much, I think, helping
(05:27):
navigate, helping navigatecreativity.
I think that was very much mycalling.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Because you understood it so much from being
in a studio and being an artist.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Yeah, from being, you know, being there on my own and
doing something I think it was,you know, I had a great
affiliation with, always havedone with some writers still do.
So I think from that angle itwas very, very much a very
natural process.
But I actually started off inthe copyright department, so I
(05:57):
got to know the real you knowhow publishing worked, and I
think that's a great way tostart, because publishing is
very, you know, I meanmultifaceted.
There's so much going on andthen every territory is
different as well.
So so I had a really goodgrounding and background and I
(06:18):
never really looked back fromthere.
I mean, I mean, obviously I'vealways dabbled with my art, I've
had exhibitions and I've soldstuff.
It sort of just went from thereand I'm still doing it today.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And it's lucky that you started sort of on the
copyright side, because youstarted to see the business side
of things, even though you werea creative.
It was a great mix for you.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
It is it has been a great mix.
For you it is, it has been agreat mix and you know, I I do
feel that not a lot of peoplehave that.
You know, both sides, bothelements of of it, you're either
, you know, I mean I very muchfelt that in um when, when I was
in Warner Chapel, which I wasfor like 12, 11, 12 years, I
(07:04):
very much felt that way.
You know, people were very mucheither creative or they were.
You know, for me that was itwas great, it was really helpful
.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Magical combo.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
That's great.
Now you've led Reverb Music forover two decades and it's part
of Reservoir, which is a UScompany.
How has your role evolved sincethe acquisition, particularly
in bridging the UK and USpublishing operations?
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Well, I think.
I mean, I've always been agreat advocate of international
anyway, so I've always workedthe international side.
In fact, in Warner Chapel I setup the whole international
department, which when I wentthere in, I think 1990, I joined
in 1980 or 1990.
They did have an internationaldepartment, but it was actually
(07:50):
just really to sort of set upmeet-em for people to go to
meet-em.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
I think I remember that, I remember that you were
there.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Yeah, yeah, I reinvented the whole thing where
I'd already put people fromdifferent territories together
and stuff and really you knowsort of cross pollinated lots of
different writers fromdifferent countries and
different things.
I mean I wasn't reinventing thewheel, but it was certainly in
the 90s.
That was quite new.
(08:16):
Actually, people weren't doingthat so much.
But now I mean, anything cancome from anywhere and I've
always felt that actually I'vealways thought it was.
You know, it was a great thingto sort of have different
influences from differentcultures.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Looking at K-pop, for example.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
yeah, I mean, some writers actually blossom in
other territories and you knowthey haven't had much success in
their own territory, but yetthey go to another territory,
maybe in Germany or something,and something just clicks.
It's quite interesting how itworks, for, you know, go to
Southeast Asia and they work,they seem to find their spark
there.
So it's really interesting howcreativity can work in different
(08:56):
regions, different cultures,different territories.
And now I mean, as I say,anything can come from anywhere.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
And some major artists I think Dua Lipa
included was actually signed outof Germany originally.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Are there many examples of that too?
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Oh, many, lots of boy groups, I think early on and
lots of people do get their ownterritory.
I think you know there's alwaysthat sort of initial thing of
like I really want to make it inmy own, I want to be, you know,
I want to be huge in America orI want to be huge in the UK,
but you know it's a big, wideworld out there and actually you
(09:30):
can do very well in otherterritories as well and, you
know, hopefully come back toyour own territory.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I love going to the UK as a songwriter Great, great
history for songwriting in theUK but there are a lot of, I
guess, major writers alreadysigned to Reservoir and so it's
kind of I guess it's a balancingact for you and for Reservoir
to find the catalogues you'reworking with and also to work
with bringing in new talent.
(10:02):
How do you kind of work on thaton a global scale?
Speaker 4 (10:06):
That is quite interesting.
But you know, I think it's downto instinct.
Really, I think you know whoyou can work with, and one
hopefully knows who one can workwith, and you just you get, you
have a connection and you knowthat you can work with lots of
people.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Now, who are some of the main talents?
Now I read is Ali Tamposi stillsigned to Reservoir Joni
Mitchell?
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Yeah, joni, yeah, yeah, joni Mitchell, yeah,
absolutely, yeah, yeah, we havemany great songwriters.
My roster is probably, I meanand I've worked with mine,
probably I mean from the Reverbdays, because Respoir acquired
Reverb in 2012.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And just reminding anyone.
Of course Annette is in the UK.
She's got a British accent butshe's actually in the UK.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
I'm actually in the UK.
Yeah, I do travel a lot, butyes, I'm actually based in the
UK and I have on my roster aBaha which actually I worked
with at Warner Chapel originally.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
In the beginning.
They came here, so that was thesong that keeps on giving, I've
got.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Pete Gordino, who's now Depeche Mode, and I mean
I've worked with Pete since 2003.
Mode and I mean I've workedwith Pete since 2003 who's Rag
and Bone man, human Giant andmany, many, many more.
We've worked together sinceabout 2003.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
But you are still looking to sign new talent, as I
seem to remember.
Yeah, always yeah always.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
And yeah, I mean obviously we have a creative
team here as well, which is'salways looking.
We have some really good andwe're constantly signing new up
and coming writers as well,which is really important, I
think you know.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Keep it alive.
I know you had mentioned youworked with global hit makers
like Jamie Hartman, who didHuman and Giant, and Iona
Roltson how Deep Is your Love?
And you also brought in advisedtalents like Cutfather.
I remember you told me a funstory about that.
I suppose you kind of mentionedthis.
Who else have you actuallychampioned yourself personally?
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I've got phil manzanera, who's proxy music
right well, and we're doing lotsof new, new projects as well,
which is, uh, always interesting.
Nittan sawney, who's reallyamazing, probably busiest man in
the music business as well.
I mean, he's always doing it.
He does a lot of film stuff anda lot of TV stuff as well.
Great scorer, great musician,great producer and also a great
(12:30):
artist too.
He does every year when hesells out the Royal Albert Ball,
such a great show.
Very varied.
But I think publishing is justthe nature of it is very varied.
Obviously one leans into whatone really loves, which for me
is a great song.
So that can go across so manyborders, so many genres.
(12:51):
So for me it's been very variedover the years and I've been
lucky enough to work with somegreat people, so Elton John,
madonna, prince Sting, thePolice in my time.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
That's the crazy part .
All these people that youworked with.
How did you know what wouldstand out, what stands out to
you?
How do you pick?
Do you?
Is it your gut or you?
Speaker 4 (13:11):
just it's a song well , it's all about the song.
For me, it all starts with asong, obviously, and it is all
about the song.
So, you know, if I hear a greatsong on, you know, but it's
instinct and it's a connection.
That is just a natural instinctfor me.
So if I hear something, I wantto hear more.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
And nowadays I guess you're conferring with your A&R
department to talk about newartists and such.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, very much.
So I mean, I'm alwaysinterested in new things that
happen and also, you know,cross-pollinating with you know,
new writers and and maybe moreestablished writers.
As you know, you can get in thestudio and you know you have an
idea, but you can take it in atotally different direction when
(13:56):
someone else comes in and goesyeah, but let's look at this,
let's see how this works.
So I think co-writing is agreat creative form and can
bring out.
I know a lot of new writerssometimes are a little cautious
about going in and saying, oh,you know, I like to write my own
stuff and the whole thing.
Also, you run out of ideas andit's great to find somebody
(14:21):
else's ideas.
I think it's that fear involvedand many, many, many times have
I had to coax people in andthen, oh, that was fantastic.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Just so it's clear.
We're talking aboutcollaboration.
So publishers do a lot to putwriters together different
writers and sometimes you knowoften they don't know each other
and they sometimes are nervousabout getting in the room with
someone they don't know.
But I think a lot of publishersand including I spoke to Sam
Cox at BMI really encourage itbecause it really does help,
(14:54):
give you new opportunities andyou learn so much from other
writers.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
And areas that you perhaps you know might not have
thought of going in directions.
You might not have thought ofgoing in directions, you might
not thought of going in andsomething yeah, something sparks
.
It's can be magic.
Yeah, it can be tough as well,you know not.
Sometimes you just get greatcollaborations together.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I know you told me about Cutfather you he was kind
of not comfortable with the ideaof doing a Nashville co-write.
You can fill us in a little onthat.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Yeah, well, we were in LA actually and we just
opened a reservoir I don't knowif it's Nashville office and the
Nashville staff were there aswell.
So I introduced him and I saidyou know, it might be really
interesting for you to go toNashville, and her father is
from Copenhagen, so I'm verymuch in the pop world and dance
(15:49):
world.
And and he looked at me and hewent what would I do there?
So I said you might besurprised and he said, yeah,
okay.
So anyway, you know, weatted,we talked about it.
Anyway, he did go and, yeah, heended up with the number one,
actually with Pink and KeithUrban.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Keith Urban and Pink, not so very shabby.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Not very shabby, and now it's a trip once a year.
They do co -writes and they goto him as well, to his studio in
Copenhagen.
So it is that thing of likethrowing it out there.
Sometimes it's left to centre,but it can really work.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
It's cross-pollinating.
Now I know you have a veryinteresting story to tell and
something that a lot of peopledon't know about you.
Do you want to tell us a littleabout your experience at the
Sorbonne?
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Ah yeah, luckily I had a great art teacher actually
, so she very much encouraged meand whatever, and as a young
student I got into the Sorbonne.
It was such a great moment.
I think in time my mother was acareers officer too, so she was
very aware of it.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
What a great thing that would be.
And also you made a very goodfriend there, I think you told
me Kind of a famous friend infact.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah, I did actually.
I got to the Sorbonne.
I did my A-levels art veryearly, so I went there when I
was about 17.
Well, more than 17.
And I was very young.
Yeah, I met David Bowie there,actually, because my tutor.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
David Bowie.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
I'm not sure if everyone heard that, but yeah,
that was cool.
Yeah, my tutor was also workingwith David.
I mean, david was gettinghimself ready for his tour.
He was doing the SeriousMoonlight.
No, no, no, it was the ZiggyStardust.
Ziggy Stardust, oh, wow, yeah,I mean I was pretty young, oh
sorry, early days.
Sorry, early days, sorry, earlydays.
(17:43):
He's always a great artist,david, and always great mentor,
always a great fit.
Any new artist.
He used to really help.
I mean throughout his career.
Art was a big thing for him andhe had such a great collection
as well.
So, yes, we met there and wewere friends then for life,
basically until he passed.
I mean I did work with him onsome projects.
I did do the Cirrus.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Moonlight Tour with him.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
I remember that it was stuck in my memory there,
and then I did do some otherprojects with him as well, but
basically our connection wasthrough art and he was always,
very always, sending me books,telling me what to go to see,
what exhibitions were on aroundthe world.
You've got to see this, you'vegot to see this.
You've got to see this, you'lllove it.
Yeah, he had quite a bit of myart and over the years, sold
(18:27):
some of my art because he had acouple of galleries.
We were very good friends thatI go, shouldn't?
He was a very special person,actually Such an icon so
interesting.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Just changing the subject, that's, you know, also
cool that you had thatrelationship, I believe.
In 2014, you co-founded theIndependent Music Publishers
Forum, known as the IMPF, and in2021, you were re-elected
president of the organization.
In this role, you continue tochampion the interests of
independent publishers andsongwriters around the world.
(18:57):
Can you tell us a little aboutthat organization and how it
advocates for independentartists?
Speaker 4 (19:04):
That's my other job.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, your other full-time job.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
So the IMPF is the International Independent Music
Publishers Forum, which in 2013,there was about 10 of us in
Paris, globally from around theworld, and we sat down and
talked about do we need a tradebody to represent the
independent music publishers?
(19:29):
And we were humming and harringdo we need another trade body?
And just anyway, it was agreedthat we did particularly for the
independents, because I think,you know, sometimes the
independence issues problems getlost, you know, with the majors
, and because we do havedifferent issues, not always,
(19:50):
but there are certain issuesthat do come up and do affect us
differently.
Yeah, so we created this globaltrade body and it's run out of
Brussels now and we are fundedby the EU now as well, and this
is the second round of fundingthat we've managed to get
because we've done very well.
(20:11):
Basically, we deal with anyissues globally.
We have probably about 150members around the world.
We have set up a summit inparma in october.
We do it every year now, whichphil board last year said it was
basically a very cool mediumreplaced.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
What time of year is that?
October?
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Oh, okay, october 7th to the 10th, around that time,
and so we do, and we do a lot ofpanels.
There's a lot of meetings thatpeople do, obviously, and we
have fun, it's sort of like aglobal AIMP type thing, like the
conference they do.
Yeah, we also.
Not only do we run the businessside of it, but I thought it
(21:01):
was very important now as anindependent music publisher that
we also put together asongwriting camp, which we have
about 21 writers.
We have a great studio therewith seven rooms where we put a
whole cast of global writerstogether which members send in
and I oversee the selectioncommittee as well for that and
(21:22):
look to sort of put togetherdifferent songwriters and you
know artists, but basically it'sand we we have five days of
songwriting and then on the lastevening of the summit we do a
playback of the songs that'sbeen done while we're there and
have a bit of mentoring going on.
While they're there I oftenbring out other songwriters or
(21:42):
established songwriters andstuff as well.
But also I mean the big thingthere is obviously culturally
everyone's very differentbecause they're all from all
over the world, because we havemembers from over five
continents.
That sounds like a cool.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Thing.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
It's grown immensely.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I want a link for that from you.
I'll put a link in the notes.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
It grows day by day.
We get new members every day,so it's been really successful
and I mean, obviously, having EUfunding has helped us a lot,
but the EU have really, they'vereally embraced it and said that
it's one of the most creativethings that they've actually
been involved with.
So we are joining the dotsbetween Europe and the rest of
the world as well.
(22:21):
So we we organize songwritingcamps all year round as well, so
we do webinars on issues thataround the world it's all
different governments havedifferent ideas on this as well,
and though quite a black holethere with ai.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Ai is a whole nother, thing, I guess, right but other
issues obviously as well.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
If we deal with any of the PROs, with problems and
stuff like that Anything, thatis an issue.
We try and share these problemsso that we can try and come up
with solutions and obviouslyhelp wherever we can as well,
and also share them withglobally too, because people
need to understand howdifferently things do work.
Around the world.
(23:01):
From America to the UK is verydifferent from Europe.
We have very different ways ofworking, but obviously
transparency is all veryimportant as well, and you know,
representing the songwriterstoo, that's a big part of what
we do, and I do get songwritersinvolved with a lot of it as
well.
So it is very much.
(23:21):
Although it's a trade body, wedo have very much a creative
edge to it as well, and the songcamp sounds great.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I'd definitely love to know more about that Very
exciting work all around.
Is there anything that I didn'task you that you want to talk
about or mention?
I think we've covered quite alot really.
So much to cover, but I'm gladwe talked about David Bowie.
That'll be something everyonewill.
I never knew about.
It was really interesting whenyou told me he did used to have
some of my art as well.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
So because I used to use him as a model when I was in
Paris and when he was there hewasn't there all the time,
obviously, but when he was there, so yeah.
He was a supporter oh no, but Imean, I used him as to draw.
Yeah, I'm gonna have that, andI'd be like, yeah, well, you
know, but he was close to them,so uh, so yeah, that's great
(24:11):
love to see some of that.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Well, annette, it's been really fantastic to talk to
you and so interesting.
I feel like I'm going to doepisode two about you.
We certainly covered some greatstuff and we'll put some links
in about the Song Camp and theIMPF and everyone should just
know that there's so much goingon out there and you're behind
so much of it.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
And it's always very important now, I feel, to give
something back as well and tryand sort of help where we can,
and through experience as well,obviously.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Hopefully we can do more, quicker and better out
well, thank you for all you doand it was so much fun chatting
and I appreciate you being herethank you.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Thank you, very honored, thank you.
She creates noise.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I'd like to thank today's sponsor, herd City, the
premier audio post-productioncompany servicing the
advertising, motion picture andtelevision industries right here
in NYC.
I'd also like to thank Antelloaka XON for singing the she
Creates Noise theme that I wrote.
Thanks for listening to sheCreates Noise.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe, rate and
(25:51):
share.
I want to thank the team hereBlair Reinly, jelena Stavanovich
, emily Wilson and the Master ofEngineering and Grammy-winning
Cooper Anderson.
We'll see you next time.
Hi, you're listening to Sarah Nagourney and welcome
to.
She Creates Noise, a newpodcast spotlighting women who
power the music industry, comingto you from New York City.
Now, if you don't know me yet,here's a little background.
I'm a songwriter, producer,manager, educator and mentor.
I've written platinum sellingsongs, had tracks on Grammy
nominated educator and mentor.
(00:45):
I've written platinum-sellingsongs, had tracks on
Grammy-nominated records andreleased music on both major and
independent labels.
I've been a jazz singer, ajingle singer, toured with big
bands and became a pop artist,and I've performed at festivals
across the US, europe and Asia.
These days, I focus on writingwith and developing young talent
.
In the coming weeks, I'll bepulling back the curtain on the
(01:07):
music industry's femalechangemakers.
Some are close friends, othersI'm just getting to know, but
all have reshaped the businessin profound ways.
My goal here is to helplisteners better understand how
the music business really worksand just how instrumental women
behind the scenes have been.
You'll hear from both sides ofthe desk artists, producers,
(01:32):
managers, label executives,lawyers.
Women making things happen,often without the spotlight on
them.
Thank you for joining me onthis journey.
Now let's dive in.
Thank you for joining me onthis journey.
Now let's dive in.
Today, I'd like to welcomeAnnette Barrett.
(01:53):
Annette Barrett is a veteranmusic publishing executive with
over 40 years of experience.
She began her career atUK-based Carlin Music and rose
through the ranks to hold seniorpositions at Virgin Music and
Warner Chapel, where she becamethe first woman appointed to the
board of directors.
Since 2001, annette has servedas managing director of
Reservoir Reverb Music, workingwith top-tier songwriters like
Jamie Hartman, ina Rolson andNittan Soni.
(02:15):
Under her leadership, thecompany has been behind major
hits including Human and Giantby Rag and Bone man and how Deep
Is your Love by Calvin Harrisand the Disciples.
Annette has also worked withlegendary artists such as David
Bowie, george Michael, eltonJohn, eric Clapton, madonna and
Prince.
A passionate supporter ofemerging talent, she continues
(02:36):
to mentor the next generation ofsongwriters.
In 2014, she co-founded theIndependent Music Publishers
Forum, the IMPF, and wasre-elected to president in 2021,
advocating for independentpublishers and songwriters on a
global scale.
Please welcome, annette Barrett.
I was thinking about how longI've known you.
(03:00):
I'm thinking, am I allowed tosay Well?
Speaker 4 (03:02):
yeah, absolutely yeah , yeah, well, I'm very honored.
Thank you, um, uh, yes, ofcourse you are.
Yeah, how long is it?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
well, you were at mortars.
It's probably pushing 30 years.
It's before my daughter wasborn, so 27 or something like
that wow time flies.
Yeah, I want to sort of mentionyou know.
One of the things I want tobring up here is what an
interesting journey you've hadand how much you and people like
you have trailblazed for thewomen in the business that have
(03:33):
come after you.
And if you could tell us alittle bit of how you fell into
this crazy business, that wouldbe fantastic.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Yeah, well, it has been a long journey actually,
but I guess I love it.
I think it's certainly who I am.
It's part of you know, it's inmy DNA.
So, yeah, well, I came into itactually by way of art, which
was it was always art music inschool anyway.
I mean that's what I loved.
But I managed to get ascholarship We'll go back to
(04:00):
that maybe later at the Sorbonneactually in Paris.
So I was very lucky and I spenta year studying fine art in
Paris and, anyway, came back,did my A-levels, then went to St
Martin School of Art, which wasfantastic, but I just like came
out there going, well, you knownow what do I do, but I mean I
(04:21):
was doing a lot of private work,so that was quite nice.
So, a friend, through a friendof a friend or whatever, and
I've always loved music and Iwas always at shows and gigs and
I did know a lot of people inthe music business actually, and
somebody said, oh, there's ajob at Carlin Music actually it
was which was a very establishedold well now, I mean old
(04:41):
catalogue, I mean Elvis Presley,I mean catalogue, I mean Elvis
Presley, and I mean there was,it was you know me, it was there
, it was just fantastic and itwas, it was a great um learning
curve.
And so someone said to me well,why don't you go in and see,
and see what you, you know, Iloved creating.
(05:03):
I was very much into the wholesort of interacting, networking
and social thing.
I felt, and I think that's whyI really is very aligned with
songwriters.
I understand when you're in astudio and you're creating
something, it's like is this anygood, where am I going to go
with this?
What am I going to do with it?
You know, and so you know, it'svery much, I think, helping
(05:27):
navigate, helping navigatecreativity.
I think that was very much mycalling.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Because you understood it so much from being
in a studio and being an artist.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Yeah, from being, you know, being there on my own and
doing something I think it was,you know, I had a great
affiliation with, always havedone with some writers still do.
So I think from that angle itwas very, very much a very
natural process.
But I actually started off inthe copyright department, so I
(05:57):
got to know the real you knowhow publishing worked, and I
think that's a great way tostart, because publishing is
very, you know, I meanmultifaceted.
There's so much going on andthen every territory is
different as well.
So so I had a really goodgrounding and background and I
(06:18):
never really looked back fromthere.
I mean, I mean, obviously I'vealways dabbled with my art, I've
had exhibitions and I've soldstuff.
It sort of just went from thereand I'm still doing it today.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And it's lucky that you started sort of on the
copyright side, because youstarted to see the business side
of things, even though you werea creative.
It was a great mix for you.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
It is it has been a great mix.
For you it is, it has been agreat mix and you know, I I do
feel that not a lot of peoplehave that.
You know, both sides, bothelements of of it, you're either
, you know, I mean I very muchfelt that in um when, when I was
in Warner Chapel, which I wasfor like 12, 11, 12 years, I
(07:04):
very much felt that way.
You know, people were very mucheither creative or they were.
You know, for me that was itwas great, it was really helpful
.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Magical combo.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
That's great.
Now you've led Reverb Music forover two decades and it's part
of Reservoir, which is a UScompany.
How has your role evolved sincethe acquisition, particularly
in bridging the UK and USpublishing operations?
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Well, I think.
I mean, I've always been agreat advocate of international
anyway, so I've always workedthe international side.
In fact, in Warner Chapel I setup the whole international
department, which when I wentthere in, I think 1990, I joined
in 1980 or 1990.
They did have an internationaldepartment, but it was actually
(07:50):
just really to sort of set upmeet-em for people to go to
meet-em.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
I think I remember that, I remember that you were
there.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Yeah, yeah, I reinvented the whole thing where
I'd already put people fromdifferent territories together
and stuff and really you knowsort of cross pollinated lots of
different writers fromdifferent countries and
different things.
I mean I wasn't reinventing thewheel, but it was certainly in
the 90s.
That was quite new.
(08:16):
Actually, people weren't doingthat so much.
But now I mean, anything cancome from anywhere and I've
always felt that actually I'vealways thought it was.
You know, it was a great thingto sort of have different
influences from differentcultures.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Looking at K-pop, for example.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
yeah, I mean, some writers actually blossom in
other territories and you knowthey haven't had much success in
their own territory, but yetthey go to another territory,
maybe in Germany or something,and something just clicks.
It's quite interesting how itworks, for, you know, go to
Southeast Asia and they work,they seem to find their spark
there.
So it's really interesting howcreativity can work in different
(08:56):
regions, different cultures,different territories.
And now I mean, as I say,anything can come from anywhere.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
And some major artists I think Dua Lipa
included was actually signed outof Germany originally.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Are there many examples of that too?
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Oh, many, lots of boy groups, I think early on and
lots of people do get their ownterritory.
I think you know there's alwaysthat sort of initial thing of
like I really want to make it inmy own, I want to be, you know,
I want to be huge in America orI want to be huge in the UK,
but you know it's a big, wideworld out there and actually you
(09:30):
can do very well in otherterritories as well and, you
know, hopefully come back toyour own territory.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I love going to the UK as a songwriter Great, great
history for songwriting in theUK but there are a lot of, I
guess, major writers alreadysigned to Reservoir and so it's
kind of I guess it's a balancingact for you and for Reservoir
to find the catalogues you'reworking with and also to work
with bringing in new talent.
(10:02):
How do you kind of work on thaton a global scale?
Speaker 4 (10:06):
That is quite interesting.
But you know, I think it's downto instinct.
Really, I think you know whoyou can work with, and one
hopefully knows who one can workwith, and you just you get, you
have a connection and you knowthat you can work with lots of
people.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Now, who are some of the main talents?
Now I read is Ali Tamposi stillsigned to Reservoir Joni
Mitchell?
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Yeah, joni, yeah, yeah, joni Mitchell, yeah,
absolutely, yeah, yeah, we havemany great songwriters.
My roster is probably, I meanand I've worked with mine,
probably I mean from the Reverbdays, because Respoir acquired
Reverb in 2012.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And just reminding anyone.
Of course Annette is in the UK.
She's got a British accent butshe's actually in the UK.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
I'm actually in the UK.
Yeah, I do travel a lot, butyes, I'm actually based in the
UK and I have on my roster aBaha which actually I worked
with at Warner Chapel originally.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
In the beginning.
They came here, so that was thesong that keeps on giving, I've
got.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Pete Gordino, who's now Depeche Mode, and I mean
I've worked with Pete since 2003.
Mode and I mean I've workedwith Pete since 2003 who's Rag
and Bone man, human Giant andmany, many, many more.
We've worked together sinceabout 2003.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
But you are still looking to sign new talent, as I
seem to remember.
Yeah, always yeah always.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
And yeah, I mean obviously we have a creative
team here as well, which is'salways looking.
We have some really good andwe're constantly signing new up
and coming writers as well,which is really important, I
think you know.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Keep it alive.
I know you had mentioned youworked with global hit makers
like Jamie Hartman, who didHuman and Giant, and Iona
Roltson how Deep Is your Love?
And you also brought in advisedtalents like Cutfather.
I remember you told me a funstory about that.
I suppose you kind of mentionedthis.
Who else have you actuallychampioned yourself personally?
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I've got phil manzanera, who's proxy music
right well, and we're doing lotsof new, new projects as well,
which is, uh, always interesting.
Nittan sawney, who's reallyamazing, probably busiest man in
the music business as well.
I mean, he's always doing it.
He does a lot of film stuff anda lot of TV stuff as well.
Great scorer, great musician,great producer and also a great
(12:30):
artist too.
He does every year when hesells out the Royal Albert Ball,
such a great show.
Very varied.
But I think publishing is justthe nature of it is very varied.
Obviously one leans into whatone really loves, which for me
is a great song.
So that can go across so manyborders, so many genres.
(12:51):
So for me it's been very variedover the years and I've been
lucky enough to work with somegreat people, so Elton John,
madonna, prince Sting, thePolice in my time.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
That's the crazy part .
All these people that youworked with.
How did you know what wouldstand out, what stands out to
you?
How do you pick?
Do you?
Is it your gut or you?
Speaker 4 (13:11):
just it's a song well , it's all about the song.
For me, it all starts with asong, obviously, and it is all
about the song.
So, you know, if I hear a greatsong on, you know, but it's
instinct and it's a connection.
That is just a natural instinctfor me.
So if I hear something, I wantto hear more.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
And nowadays I guess you're conferring with your A&R
department to talk about newartists and such.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, very much.
So I mean, I'm alwaysinterested in new things that
happen and also, you know,cross-pollinating with you know,
new writers and and maybe moreestablished writers.
As you know, you can get in thestudio and you know you have an
idea, but you can take it in atotally different direction when
(13:56):
someone else comes in and goesyeah, but let's look at this,
let's see how this works.
So I think co-writing is agreat creative form and can
bring out.
I know a lot of new writerssometimes are a little cautious
about going in and saying, oh,you know, I like to write my own
stuff and the whole thing.
Also, you run out of ideas andit's great to find somebody
(14:21):
else's ideas.
I think it's that fear involvedand many, many, many times have
I had to coax people in andthen, oh, that was fantastic.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Just so it's clear.
We're talking aboutcollaboration.
So publishers do a lot to putwriters together different
writers and sometimes you knowoften they don't know each other
and they sometimes are nervousabout getting in the room with
someone they don't know.
But I think a lot of publishersand including I spoke to Sam
Cox at BMI really encourage itbecause it really does help,
(14:54):
give you new opportunities andyou learn so much from other
writers.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
And areas that you perhaps you know might not have
thought of going in directions.
You might not have thought ofgoing in directions, you might
not thought of going in andsomething yeah, something sparks
.
It's can be magic.
Yeah, it can be tough as well,you know not.
Sometimes you just get greatcollaborations together.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I know you told me about Cutfather you he was kind
of not comfortable with the ideaof doing a Nashville co-write.
You can fill us in a little onthat.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Yeah, well, we were in LA actually and we just
opened a reservoir I don't knowif it's Nashville office and the
Nashville staff were there aswell.
So I introduced him and I saidyou know, it might be really
interesting for you to go toNashville, and her father is
from Copenhagen, so I'm verymuch in the pop world and dance
(15:49):
world.
And and he looked at me and hewent what would I do there?
So I said you might besurprised and he said, yeah,
okay.
So anyway, you know, weatted,we talked about it.
Anyway, he did go and, yeah, heended up with the number one,
actually with Pink and KeithUrban.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Keith Urban and Pink, not so very shabby.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Not very shabby, and now it's a trip once a year.
They do co -writes and they goto him as well, to his studio in
Copenhagen.
So it is that thing of likethrowing it out there.
Sometimes it's left to centre,but it can really work.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
It's cross-pollinating.
Now I know you have a veryinteresting story to tell and
something that a lot of peopledon't know about you.
Do you want to tell us a littleabout your experience at the
Sorbonne?
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Ah yeah, luckily I had a great art teacher actually
, so she very much encouraged meand whatever, and as a young
student I got into the Sorbonne.
It was such a great moment.
I think in time my mother was acareers officer too, so she was
very aware of it.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
What a great thing that would be.
And also you made a very goodfriend there, I think you told
me Kind of a famous friend infact.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah, I did actually.
I got to the Sorbonne.
I did my A-levels art veryearly, so I went there when I
was about 17.
Well, more than 17.
And I was very young.
Yeah, I met David Bowie there,actually, because my tutor.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
David Bowie.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
I'm not sure if everyone heard that, but yeah,
that was cool.
Yeah, my tutor was also workingwith David.
I mean, david was gettinghimself ready for his tour.
He was doing the SeriousMoonlight.
No, no, no, it was the ZiggyStardust.
Ziggy Stardust, oh, wow, yeah,I mean I was pretty young, oh
sorry, early days.
Sorry, early days, sorry, earlydays.
(17:43):
He's always a great artist,david, and always great mentor,
always a great fit.
Any new artist.
He used to really help.
I mean throughout his career.
Art was a big thing for him andhe had such a great collection
as well.
So, yes, we met there and wewere friends then for life,
basically until he passed.
I mean I did work with him onsome projects.
I did do the Cirrus.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Moonlight Tour with him.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
I remember that it was stuck in my memory there,
and then I did do some otherprojects with him as well, but
basically our connection wasthrough art and he was always,
very always, sending me books,telling me what to go to see,
what exhibitions were on aroundthe world.
You've got to see this, you'vegot to see this.
You've got to see this, you'lllove it.
Yeah, he had quite a bit of myart and over the years, sold
(18:27):
some of my art because he had acouple of galleries.
We were very good friends thatI go, shouldn't?
He was a very special person,actually Such an icon so
interesting.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Just changing the subject, that's, you know, also
cool that you had thatrelationship, I believe.
In 2014, you co-founded theIndependent Music Publishers
Forum, known as the IMPF, and in2021, you were re-elected
president of the organization.
In this role, you continue tochampion the interests of
independent publishers andsongwriters around the world.
(18:57):
Can you tell us a little aboutthat organization and how it
advocates for independentartists?
Speaker 4 (19:04):
That's my other job.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, your other full-time job.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
So the IMPF is the International Independent Music
Publishers Forum, which in 2013,there was about 10 of us in
Paris, globally from around theworld, and we sat down and
talked about do we need a tradebody to represent the
independent music publishers?
(19:29):
And we were humming and harringdo we need another trade body?
And just anyway, it was agreedthat we did particularly for the
independents, because I think,you know, sometimes the
independence issues problems getlost, you know, with the majors
, and because we do havedifferent issues, not always,
(19:50):
but there are certain issuesthat do come up and do affect us
differently.
Yeah, so we created this globaltrade body and it's run out of
Brussels now and we are fundedby the EU now as well, and this
is the second round of fundingthat we've managed to get
because we've done very well.
(20:11):
Basically, we deal with anyissues globally.
We have probably about 150members around the world.
We have set up a summit inparma in october.
We do it every year now, whichphil board last year said it was
basically a very cool mediumreplaced.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
What time of year is that?
October?
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Oh, okay, october 7th to the 10th, around that time,
and so we do, and we do a lot ofpanels.
There's a lot of meetings thatpeople do, obviously, and we
have fun, it's sort of like aglobal AIMP type thing, like the
conference they do.
Yeah, we also.
Not only do we run the businessside of it, but I thought it
(21:01):
was very important now as anindependent music publisher that
we also put together asongwriting camp, which we have
about 21 writers.
We have a great studio therewith seven rooms where we put a
whole cast of global writerstogether which members send in
and I oversee the selectioncommittee as well for that and
(21:22):
look to sort of put togetherdifferent songwriters and you
know artists, but basically it'sand we we have five days of
songwriting and then on the lastevening of the summit we do a
playback of the songs that'sbeen done while we're there and
have a bit of mentoring going on.
While they're there I oftenbring out other songwriters or
(21:42):
established songwriters andstuff as well.
But also I mean the big thingthere is obviously culturally
everyone's very differentbecause they're all from all
over the world, because we havemembers from over five
continents.
That sounds like a cool.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Thing.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
It's grown immensely.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I want a link for that from you.
I'll put a link in the notes.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
It grows day by day.
We get new members every day,so it's been really successful
and I mean, obviously, having EUfunding has helped us a lot,
but the EU have really, they'vereally embraced it and said that
it's one of the most creativethings that they've actually
been involved with.
So we are joining the dotsbetween Europe and the rest of
the world as well.
(22:21):
So we we organize songwritingcamps all year round as well, so
we do webinars on issues thataround the world it's all
different governments havedifferent ideas on this as well,
and though quite a black holethere with ai.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Ai is a whole nother, thing, I guess, right but other
issues obviously as well.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
If we deal with any of the PROs, with problems and
stuff like that Anything, thatis an issue.
We try and share these problemsso that we can try and come up
with solutions and obviouslyhelp wherever we can as well,
and also share them withglobally too, because people
need to understand howdifferently things do work.
Around the world.
(23:01):
From America to the UK is verydifferent from Europe.
We have very different ways ofworking, but obviously
transparency is all veryimportant as well, and you know,
representing the songwriterstoo, that's a big part of what
we do, and I do get songwritersinvolved with a lot of it as
well.
So it is very much.
(23:21):
Although it's a trade body, wedo have very much a creative
edge to it as well, and the songcamp sounds great.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I'd definitely love to know more about that Very
exciting work all around.
Is there anything that I didn'task you that you want to talk
about or mention?
I think we've covered quite alot really.
So much to cover, but I'm gladwe talked about David Bowie.
That'll be something everyonewill.
I never knew about.
It was really interesting whenyou told me he did used to have
some of my art as well.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
So because I used to use him as a model when I was in
Paris and when he was there hewasn't there all the time,
obviously, but when he was there, so yeah.
He was a supporter oh no, but Imean, I used him as to draw.
Yeah, I'm gonna have that, andI'd be like, yeah, well, you
know, but he was close to them,so uh, so yeah, that's great
(24:11):
love to see some of that.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Well, annette, it's been really fantastic to talk to
you and so interesting.
I feel like I'm going to doepisode two about you.
We certainly covered some greatstuff and we'll put some links
in about the Song Camp and theIMPF and everyone should just
know that there's so much goingon out there and you're behind
so much of it.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
And it's always very important now, I feel, to give
something back as well and tryand sort of help where we can,
and through experience as well,obviously.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Hopefully we can do more, quicker and better out
well, thank you for all you doand it was so much fun chatting
and I appreciate you being herethank you.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Thank you, very honored, thank you.
She creates noise.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I'd like to thank today's sponsor, herd City, the
premier audio post-productioncompany servicing the
advertising, motion picture andtelevision industries right here
in NYC.
I'd also like to thank Antelloaka XON for singing the she
Creates Noise theme that I wrote.
Thanks for listening to sheCreates Noise.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe, rate and
(25:51):
share.
I want to thank the team hereBlair Reinly, jelena Stavanovich
, emily Wilson and the Master ofEngineering and Grammy-winning
Cooper Anderson.
We'll see you next time.
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