June 17, 2025 • 46 mins
With over 30 years as an A&R executive at Sony Music and Warner Chappell, Lee Dannay has guided the careers of platinum-selling artists including John Mayer, Brandi Carlile, and Train while fundamentally reshaping how the industry approaches artist development.
The heart of great A&R work, Lee reveals, lies not just in spotting talent but in building genuine trust. "At the end of the day, the music artists write is personal," she explains. "Every time an artist writes a song, it's like they're giving birth to a child." This perspective has made her particularly valuable when "inheriting" artists who feel abandoned after their original champions leave a label – a common industry occurrence that leaves creators vulnerable and mistrustful.
Our conversation travels from the earliest days of songwriter camps (which Lee pioneered at Warner Chappell 15+ years ago) to her current role heading A&R at 30 Tigers, where artists maintain ownership of their masters. "We offer a lot of the services of a traditional label, but with a very different ethos," she notes. "We will work collaboratively with you and help you accomplish your goals, but you own your work." This shift represents one of the most significant evolutions in the music business, fundamentally changing the relationship between artists and their industry partners.
As a woman who has navigated the male-dominated music industry for decades, Lee also offers candid insights about gender dynamics, mentorship, and the progress still needed. Her advice for industry newcomers? Be curious about everything – not just music but literature, film, global trends – because "music is shaped by and drives culture." This holistic approach has defined her career and continues to inform her work developing the next generation of music talent.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Hi, you're listening to Sarah Nagourney and welcome
to.
She Creates Noise, a newpodcast spotlighting women who
power the music industry, comingto you from New York City.
Now, if you don't know me yet,here's a little background.
I'm a songwriter, producer,manager, educator and mentor.
I've written platinum sellingsongs, had tracks on Grammy
nominated educator and mentor.
(00:45):
I've written platinum-sellingsongs, had tracks on
Grammy-nominated records andreleased music on both major and
independent labels.
I've been a jazz singer, ajingle singer, toured with big
bands and became a pop artist,and I've performed at festivals
across the US, europe and Asia.
These days, I focus on writingwith and developing young talent
.
In the coming weeks, I'll bepulling back the curtain on the
(01:07):
music industry's femalechangemakers.
Some are close friends, othersI'm just getting to know, but
all have reshaped the businessin profound ways.
My goal here is to helplisteners better understand how
the music business really worksand just how instrumental women
behind the scenes have been.
You'll hear from both sides ofthe desk artists, producers,
(01:32):
managers, label executives,lawyers.
Women making things happen,often without the spotlight on
them.
Thank you for joining me onthis journey.
Now let's dive in.
(01:55):
Today's guest is Leigh Danae.
Leigh is a veteran A&Rexecutive with over 30 years of
experience in the music industry.
She's held senior roles at SonyMusic and Warner Chapel,
working with artists like JohnMayer, brandi Carlile, train and
the Oscar-winning duo From Once.
Her career spans labels,publishing and television,
including her work as a musicproducer for America's Got
Talent.
She currently heads A&R at 30Tigers and teaches at NYU in
(02:16):
Hofstra.
Lee is also president of theRecording Academy New York
Chapter and active in severalmajor music organizations and
non-profits.
I really appreciate Lee makingthe time for us today.
Thank you so much and welcome.
My first question here isreally you know you've worked
(02:36):
with such a wide range ofartists from John Mayer to
Brandi Carlile, gavin DeGraw,iron and Wine Glenn Hansard Phew
, it's unbelievable.
How do you approach artistdevelopment across such
different genres andpersonalities?
What stays consistent in yourprocess?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Well, thank you.
First of all, thanks for thevery kind and generous
introduction and it is nice toface meet you, although I know
we've met before and wecertainly have been in
concentric circles for manyyears, so it's really an honor
to be asked to do this and totalk about things I've done when
I was thinking about thatquestion.
There are so many answers.
Each artist sort of requirestheir own individual answer and
(03:15):
the way I tried to sort of sumit up so that we're not here all
day, it kind of depends on twosort of main things the entry
point, in which the relationshipstarts with the artist If I've
done sort of the old-fashionedA&R found the artist championed
them, developed them and workedwith them from an early point in
(03:35):
their career.
There's kind of like an organictrust and relationship that
builds throughout that processand that's maybe the simplest
way of working with an artist,because the conversations are
all about who they are and whatthey're doing and where they
want to go, and so it becomes avery sort of just.
It's really just an organicprocess.
(03:56):
But also as an A&R person andI've done a lot of this, both on
the label side and a little bitin publishing too.
Sometimes A&R people say thiswith sort of air quotes like
inherit an artist you know orask to get involved in an artist
who's already previously beenwith the company you're working
with, and that relationship isentirely different and in some
(04:18):
ways sometimes it can be a lotharder because you're coming in
with your own preconceptions.
The artist has had differentrelationships with different A&R
people and sometimes when youinherit an artist just by virtue
of and this is not a personalthing to me specifically, but
there's an inherent mistrust orskepticism when someone new sort
(04:39):
of takes over the creativerelationship.
And that's actually somethingbecause I've always been a bit
of that I don't know how to callit like jack of all trades
worker, be a and our person.
My background, learning how todo the craft of a and our came
from being involved in a lot ofdifferent projects at Sony very
early on in my career.
I think that that's for mepersonally it was a gift because
(05:02):
it allowed me to have a lot ofdifferent experiences learning
how to make records, doingcompilation projects, doing
catalog work, doing benefitrecords, not just signing and
developing and making artistsand making records.
It taught me a lot about thegeneral process of artist
development and helping createmusic with artists.
So so I think, because Istarted that way, I've often
(05:25):
been the one within the companyto inherit artists who are
either, um, have been kind oforphaned when a company changes
over and people uh, um, oryou'll say, you know, hey, we're
having some trouble with thisone, or or this isn't really,
you know a little bit, yeah, alittle bit of the fixer sort of,
but.
But I've always taken that as acompliment and I've also taken
it really seriously.
(05:46):
And I think some of thatmistrust that I've had this
conversation with artists overthe years some of the mistrust
is that artists get signed andthen their point person leaves
the company for whatever reasonand then they feel abandoned.
And you know, how do you trustsome stranger, no matter what
their reputation is?
How do you trust a strangerwith your art and your and your
creative work and how do youhave those personal
(06:06):
conversations?
Because at the end of the day,the music artists write is
personal and it's coming fromtheir heart.
It's like every time an artistwrites a song, it's like they're
giving birth to a child, youknow, in a way.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Can you separate a little like some what were some
of the you know ground up peoplethat you did find and some of
the ones that you inherited?
If you don't mind mentioningjust a few examples, yeah, I
mean I can.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
On the label side, I would say most of the artists I
find involved in science, likeJohn Mayer, anna Nalick.
I inherited Train, who I onlyworked with really briefly.
I inherited Fight for Fighting,who I did work with for a while
, and that was one where Ireally had to build some trust
and it was a little complicated,but I think we got there.
And then, on the publishingside, when I worked with artists
(06:50):
you know some that youmentioned Gavin DeGraw, iron
Wine, glenn Hansard those wereall artists that were within the
company and, you know, honestly, were orphaned and I helped
both kind of get the deals done,redone and kept them on the
roster, but also jumped in at apoint where most of those
artists already had pretty wellestablished careers but
(07:14):
publishing was an importantcomponent of where they were
going in the future, both interms of collaborations and just
sort of advancing their career.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
You had to kind of make them comfortable and show
that you were there.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
And show that I was just like not another suit who
was there to just kind of acceptthe delivery of music and every
artist, and I really understandwhy they feel that way.
There's a lot of turnover inthe industry and when you're
especially when you're signed toa publishing deal which has a
lengthier term, there's almostinevitably turnover with the
(07:46):
creative staff at a certainpoint.
So you're not having sort ofthat lifetime relationship with
an artist.
Part of what I have always feltis important about A&R and what
I feel my most valuable role toan artist, both on the label
and the publishing side, is likewhat I've always said is being
of service, and being of serviceto an artist at any entry point
(08:08):
.
So, whereas it's not alwayssort of the requirement of the
job to dive in with your wholeheart, sometimes it's like hey,
can you just handle this, canyou just take care of this and
be the point person formaintenance, so to speak.
And I've always tried to bemore than that and be the person
that the artist or songwritercan trust, because I think that
that's really needed in ourbusiness and also I'd love to do
(08:28):
that Honestly.
That's what I consider artistdevelopment and that's what I
consider being different aboutthe role of A&R Also.
You know, obviously the mainrole of A&R on the surface is
you're a talent scout.
You're the one who'sidentifying talent and bringing
them in at any, whatever thatstage is.
You're bringing them inhopefully allowing them to have
a successful career with thecompany you're working for.
That requires development too.
(08:50):
That requires trust.
So that's how, with each artistI've worked with, there's been
a different entry point and someI've had to work harder at
building trust.
I think I was largelysuccessful with most artists
I've worked with with buildingtrust.
But some artists also just kindof keep you at arm's length and
when that happens I respectthat.
If an artist has had a very likeGlenn Hansard is a great
(09:10):
example.
We always had a very cordialrelationship and he was lovely
to deal with.
I am still close to his managerand we've worked together
subsequently and I think thatthey knew that I was always
there to support and championand be of service in any way
possible, even when it was likerenegotiating a deal, kind of
getting behind them to help getthe best terms.
But he isn't someone whocreatively kind of bore his soul
(09:33):
to me and said, ok, I want toplay you these songs in progress
, or what do you think of this?
When I'd see him, we'd havegreat conversations, but then
there just wasn't that sort ofbond.
He was well established andprobably didn't have that before
me either.
Quite honestly, I think that'sjust the kind of artist he is.
You know he has that with otherpeople Interesting.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
I mean, I've certainly known artists that
were signed and suffered the,you know, key man clause not
taking place and they didn'thave someone to represent them
and they got dropped, or I meanthat's more typical, sadly.
But it sounds like, you know,when you stepped in you really
rolled up your sleeves and luckythem to have had you.
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
I think that's important.
I also enjoy that process.
You know, again, sometimes it'sit's more successful than
others, even in terms of what Ican contribute and what I can
help add value to.
But I think that when, when youhave that opportunity and when
we have that role, that's theresponsibility.
I just take that responsibilityreally seriously and I enjoy
sort of diving in like oh,here's a new artist that I have
(10:30):
inherited and let me find outwhere he's at and where.
Let me find out where she's atand what they need and how can I
bring value to where they're at.
They were signed for a reason.
They, their talent, isexceptional and was greatly
desired at some point by whoeversigned them prior to me.
And let me try to honor that.
And as long as thatrelationship exists, build on it
and I think that sort ofdifferentiates the role of an
(10:54):
A&R person from just being atalent scout and both are
important, but that's justalways been my something I just
care about.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
In there to keep supporting them and not letting
them float off and be forgottenabout or whatever.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
know what's going on in in music at all in all genres
, and and you know who are thenew writers that are coming up
and doing good work, who are theyou know who are some great
(11:29):
producers.
When I hear still like I couldbe driving in my car and
listening to you know, sirius XM, and I hear a new song by an
artist and my first thought islike Ooh, who produced that song
?
It's great.
Or, you know, I wonder whowrote this?
Or did they write it togetheror alone, or together as a band
or with collaborators?
And that that sort of behindthe scenes creative process
(11:50):
really interests me.
And and it's always kind of thefirst question I ask is like
okay, who'd you work with?
You know and and, and if I don'tknow them, should I, I should
you know so.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
You really stay on top.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Yeah, and so I it.
It.
It sort of necessitates mestaying on top of things because
that's how I can be of serviceand that's the value I can bring
to any project or any artist.
I also really enjoy that.
I feel like that just makes memore present in this
ever-changing industry and keepsme as current as possible at a
time where things are justturning around and turning over
(12:21):
super quickly.
So I definitely work hard to dothat and certainly don't know
everyone, but try really hardwhen I don't know someone to
dive into their work and, youknow, get to know what's, you
know what they can offer to anartist or to a you know, to a
band.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
And now you're at 30 Tigers, where you support a much
more independent roster.
How does A&R an indie-facingcompany like that differ from
your experience at major labelslike Sony or Warner's?
Speaker 4 (12:55):
It's in some ways exactly the same and in some
ways entirely different.
How's that for a vague answer?
Well, so it's the same in that,you know, again, as one of the
most important parts of A&R,identifying talent finding, you
know, signing artists, trying tobe out in the industry and find
(13:16):
the right artists who fit withthe ethos of our company, who we
can be successful for and with.
That's always the main role ofan A&R person.
The different process and thethings that I was talking about
you know kind of in the priorquestion.
I still do that with some ofthe artists I work with.
(13:37):
It's not a mandate and it's notsomething that is either
required or necessitated interms of the way our company
works.
You know, part of the reason, ahuge part of the reason that
attracted me to joining thecompany was the philosophy that
the whole company is a serviceto artists.
(13:57):
We are, you know, a labelservices but, you know, being a
dedicated partner with ourartists in service of all of the
different departments that youknow kind of make up 30 Tigers,
all of the different ways thatour company can be of service to
support the artists own work.
(14:18):
And you know our artists owntheir own masters.
You know, get involved in anyintellectual property by design.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
And more established artists.
Overall, you know the Bruce, wehave all we have all levels,
you know.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
I mean we have some new and developing artists and
we're always looking.
We have a.
We have a very large roster,broad roster, both in terms of
genre and just, you know, kindof the number of artists that
will put records through ourcompany.
So, you know, we curate.
We're not a, we're not a volumebusiness by nature.
We, you know, we, have adistribution based model so that
(14:56):
we are able to be of service.
Like, honestly, like you know,creative service marketing,
service promotion.
We offer a lot of the most ofthe services of a traditional
label, but with a very differentethos.
With, you know, creativeservice marketing, service
promotion.
We offer a lot of the most ofthe services of a traditional
label, but with a very differentethos.
With you know, we are going togive you the best of our
expertise.
We will work collaborativelywith you and help you accomplish
your goals, but you own yourwork.
So, at the end of the day, allof the work that I might do with
(15:18):
some of those artists if theyask for it, it's not a
negotiation.
It's me saying, hey, you knowyou need some help or you've
asked for some help, or I have asuggestion we could do this,
they have 100% control overtheir art and can say thanks for
the suggestion, no thanks.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
And for those listening that don't know the
difference between a major isthey own your master's and in
something like 30 Tigers, theartist owns a masters and you're
at offering label services tosupport, promotion and etc right
just to help them create theirbest work and then to give them
a path for release.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
And you know, and ultimately the goals are both
majors and indies are the same.
We want to have successfulcareers with our artists, you
know, for our artists and withour artists.
I think the mandates on themajor label side that I had were
all for the good of you know,making helping accomplish a goal
, make a successful record, havea successful release.
(16:15):
You know, develop and break anartist, but there are just
different pressures.
You know there's different whenthere's a different economic
model.
That sort of ends up.
You know there's a lot in abigger company there's bigger,
more cooks in the kitchen.
I'll just say that and and Inever I didn't have so many
instances throughout my career Iwas very fortunate in that
(16:36):
there we've always had in myexperience is a lot of the
relationships I had, even in theearly days, were also
collaborative and supportive.
Even in the early days werealso collaborative and
supportive, you know.
But but if ever there's therewas an argument over like we
want this single or that single,there was certainly more
pressure for me in my earlierpart of my career to, you know,
help make the, the artist,understand why what they might
(16:59):
have wanted wasn't the, wasn'tthe right way or wasn't the way
that the company had a visionfor, always challenging right.
It was always sat really badlywith me and I didn't like being
the messenger or the bearer ofnews that I didn't believe in or
support.
It didn't happen that often,but just being put in that
position always made me feellike I was.
I never want to be disingenuousand often I didn't agree with
(17:24):
things that were being asked ofme to do and that sort of led to
me saying, ok, there must be abetter way.
And I found that with DirtyTigers, where the ethos of our
company and the philosophy isexactly what I've believed my
significance in a role of A&R isis to be of service, to be of
support, to be of service, to beof support, but ultimately let
(17:46):
the artist have agency overtheir intellectual property and
to be able to make and releaserecords with supportive,
creative services, notdirectives.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
So that's the difference.
Now it's fantastic.
I mean, I was like where wereyou when I was a young artist?
I needed you.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Well, you could ask my boss that he was building
this company, because we've beenaround, I think, almost 25
years and and and probably neverbeen more needed or or or
appreciated than you know.
As the industry has changed and, as you know, the economics of
our business have changed.
It's different.
It's different, you know it,majors now and and certainly
(18:24):
different than when I was there.
So again, I feel very luckythat I had largely really
wonderful experiences andlearned the craft that I still
am very lucky to get to employfrom time to time as an old
school A&R person, but also gotto work with a lot of different
artists, genre wise, which whichalso just suits me.
(18:46):
That's my.
You know, you always have toplay to your strengths, I think,
in whatever role you have inthis business and I love all
genres of music.
I always have.
I have a lot of curiosity aboutmusic and, like I said, I hear
something.
I'm like who's behind that?
Who's involved?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
You know, and sort of the first thing I think of.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
So I'm very lucky that I still get to do that in
the way that we do it at 30Tigers.
That's great.
Sounds like a wonderful label.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
You've long been a champion of emerging writers,
and your work with WarnerChappell's Global Writing Camps
helped reshape howcollaborations happen.
I'm wondering when did you dosome of those camps?
How long ago was that?
15 plus years ago.
Yeah, that would have been earlybecause, let's face it, song
camps are so typical.
Now, I mean, someone we're herewith today is at an Amazon song
(19:40):
camp.
I was just there, oh yeah, okay, I did one during the pandemic
myself, called Songs Across theWater, which was to try to
improve visibility of New Yorkwriters, and it was all virtual.
And also, way back in the day,I did Chris Difford's Song Camp,
which was a long time ago,probably 20 plus.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
That's awesome.
They've been around, certainlynot as common a practice as they
are today.
I actually and I'm very proudof this.
But it's a point that I wantedto sort of share about the whole
, that whole sort of concept,like when I started at Warner
Chapel, like I said, I inheriteda pretty large roster.
(20:21):
The company had gone throughsome changes.
There was a new team in placeand when I dove in there I found
that the writers and theartists that I had been assigned
a lot of them were feelingreally orphaned corporation as a
whole back then.
It left a lot of writersfeeling orphaned, and I was also
(20:52):
.
It was at a time where therewasn't really a lot of signing
and things because again, therewas a lot of transition.
So I jump into this role and Ithink what can I do?
You know, I've inherited aroster.
I can't really sign too much.
What can I do to be of serviceand what can I do to add value
and to engender trust with a lotof the disenchanted, you know,
creators that I was meeting andI thought like, hey, let's do a
(21:15):
writer camp.
But my goal for that particularcamp was it was only Warner
Chapel writers and it waslargely to boost morale and to
sort of connect the dots withall of the writers in different
regions that were feeling thisway.
You know, and I thought youknow what an interesting way to
(21:36):
try to do this.
We can build community at thecompany, we can boost morale.
Of course, hopefully that'lllead to some cuts and some great
you know copyrights, which Ithink you know they did.
But I was also very lucky atthe time that I sort of proposed
this.
You know, cost money to dowriter camps and did you go
somewhere exotic or where?
I did too, and I think therewere many done after I left the
(21:59):
company.
The first one I did in New Yorkand I pulled a lot of favors.
I called people I knew atstudios and negotiated some
great rates, got a few placessort of donated because of
people who owned the studio,were writers and asked to be
part of it, and I broughtwriters in from New York, from
the UK, from Nashville and LosAngeles, and I really curated it
(22:21):
based on the artists andwriters and more writers, writer
producers that I had gotten toknow, and I tried to balance a
couple of the new, newer, youngwriter producers with a couple
of more established writerproducers from each of the.
You know each of the offices.
And when I brought the idea tomy then boss, he really
(22:45):
supported it and gave me thegreen light to do it and it was
great.
I mean, we had a week of.
A couple of the bigger namewriters were like I'll come in
for a day or two but I've got togo do something else.
And they all stayed for fivedays and and I did, and this was
a learning experience for me.
I'd never done anything likethis before and I'm pretty sure
(23:08):
Warner I won't swear to this,but I'm pretty sure that hadn't
been done before internally.
So I brought people from eachof the companies and you know
who did A&R to help and to sortof say, hey, who are your
writers that we can bring in,who would be a great fit for
this?
And you know we all workedcollaboratively and that was
also part of my goal was to, youknow, work collaboratively with
the different offices at thetime and they were a blast.
It was so successful that wedid it I don't remember how long
(23:32):
after, but we did it inNashville and I'm pretty sure
they still do it, you know soand there was really sort of
early days for those kind ofthings and you know now they
happen in so many different wayswhen they're done right, with
intention, and those camps didlead to some cuts.
So I was going to tell you alittle story about something
that happened in that camp.
That was such an interestinglearning experience for me.
(23:54):
I had put together a top linewriter artist from Nashville
who's sort of a soul singer, apop producer from Los Angeles
and a lyric writer from I'msorry, and a lyric writer from
Nashville.
And sorry, the artist was asoul singer who was not from
Nashville but kind of living inNashville, like three really
(24:16):
different creators, you know,with very different experiences.
And as they were writing, oneof them came out from the room
and said, hey, we want you tohear something Like, we think
we're onto something really coolhere, what do you think?
And they pulled me in and theywere the reason they wanted me
here.
One was they were reallyexcited.
Two, they couldn't decide ifthey were writing a country song
(24:37):
or a pop song and I thoughtthat was such a funny, you know,
sort of question.
And then I was like, hmm, Ithink it's a country song and I
brought in someone from Nash, myNashville office, who was there
to listen, and I said what doyou think?
And she said I think it's a popsong, and so so it was such a
funny experience listening to asong grow that way, you know,
(25:01):
and wondering where it could goand how the instrumentation and
how the demo kind of inform thatprocess.
And we ultimately decided weloved the song so much we cut it
in a couple of different waysas a demo and that song had been
on from that camp, had been onhold with Josh Groban and on
hold with Blake Shelton, andBlake Shelton's team asked for
(25:27):
it to be redemod, maybe threetimes, you know one with a pedal
steel, one with a, a, a malevocal, one with a female, you
know, like, like, all sort ofjust little tweaks that didn't
necessarily change the inherentum song but gave it different
feeling, and Blake Shelton endedup cutting it Um, and and so.
So in the end we were like Iguess it was a country song, you
(25:47):
know, and and.
But it was such a greatlearning experience at the
process of collaboration andsongwriting, it was such a.
It all came about in such akind of loving and supportive
way and when that song got cutand then ultimately I think it
was I think he had a gold ormaybe platinum out, you know
what?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
was the song called.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
It was God.
I'm going to blank out on thename of the song.
I'll tell you in a second.
It was not a single, but it was.
You know, it was a song thatwas really beloved.
So anyway, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I spent a lot of time talking about that.
Yeah, no, I love.
I love stories like that.
That's just the kind of thing Iwanted to like talk about some
cool stuff that had happenedwith you.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Okay, I'm going to let the song title.
It's called Do you Remember?
And of course I didn't rememberbecause that was so long ago.
That's the song.
It was wracking my brain.
I'm like I'm not going to getoff this topic.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Sorry, Do you Remember?
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Do you remember it was written by a writer named
Will Gray, a writer-producer,ian Kropachick, and a lyric
Nashville songwriter, michaelDelaney, who are all fantastic
artists and fantastic creators.
Will very tragically passedaway very young, not that long
(27:04):
after that camp, actually passedaway very young, not that long
after that camp actually.
So there's a lot of sort oflove and nostalgia around that
song for me personally, anyway,I got to when Will got sick.
I think Blake had just released, he released the record and I
actually got to bring Will, Ithink, a gold record right
before he passed away, his firstand only gold record, so from
(27:27):
that song.
So it was a very personallyimportant time in my
professional career.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
It's great that the song did get heard.
That's that's an importantthing, yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
It's really.
It's really fun when you knowto be part of like that process
from zero to that.
You know and see how it's going.
I learned a lot.
You know those, all of thosekinds of experiences and every
time I've worked with a whetherit's an artist or a
collaborative, you knowexperience like that.
I learned so much about thecreative process and and
hopefully that informs you knowideas and thoughts I can bring
(27:58):
to other artists.
That's a big part of what Icare about as well when I'm
doing this kind of work.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
It's a great thing to see.
Did you used to go into thestudio in these camps and kind
of sort of check in so you wouldcheck in with what they were
doing?
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Yeah, I actually in that in those two camps I was
there the whole time.
I mean, we, you know I wasrotating between rooms and
studios in New York and and thenin Nashville.
I think we mostly did it in theWarner Chapel Nashville offices
because they had a lot ofstudios.
So so yeah, we would, you know,sort of pop in and out and and
have playbacks and listen towhere they were at and you know,
(28:30):
yeah, just a lot of fun, a lotof fun creating.
That's great.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
That makes it much more real to see, to see the
process, to go in and see doingit creates noise.
You've been a mentor andeducator for years and a strong
advocate for women in music, andI know you've seen the role and
(28:55):
representation of women shift.
Where do you think real changeneeds to happen?
And I know we talked about thisa little bit like you've been
doing this long enough to haveseen change and how has it
affected you and how you know Iknow you've been doing this long
enough to have seen change andhow has it affected you and and
how you know, I know you've all.
Women have to deal with certainnumbers of things, but I think
things have improved a lot notenough, but you know there's a
(29:16):
lot to be grateful for in termsof the opportunities and I think
young people are going tobenefit a lot from.
You know the groundbreakingwork that you did the younger
women, you know, yeah, it's it'sbenefit a lot from.
You know the groundbreakingwork that you did the younger
women.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
You know, yeah it's changed a lot.
One, there are so many morewomen in leadership positions.
You know, across the industry,in every area and even in, you
know, areas that inform music,like you know tech and you know
other platforms where musiclives.
(29:47):
There's, there's, there arewomen executives and, and all of
the C-suite offices andboardrooms.
Way more than when I wasstarting in the business, there
were women.
You know, when I, there werewomen executives and and
certainly some women that Ilooked up to and worked with
early on in my career.
I'll say something that'sprobably sort of controversial
(30:08):
in this in my response to this,that for me and for a lot of
other women I know, coming up atthe time that we did, sort of
surprisingly, I found morementorship and support from some
of my male bosses than femalebosses.
Um, and and I've never reallythat's never sat well with me Um
(30:33):
and it and it's taught me a lotof lessons, you know, and and
again, I think maybe because itwas more competitive for women,
so there was a lot moreterritorialism Um, I found that
I wasn't always respected ortreated respectfully by some
women and that I personally hadless of that happen from men,
(30:53):
and and perhaps my ceiling waslower as a woman, so they, so a
man, could look at me and say,well, you'll never be in my role
, so I can be really nice to you, whereas maybe another woman
said, hey, I don't want you totake my job, so back off.
You know, I'm, I'm, I'mguessing there that that could
have been, you know, somewhat ofa factor.
It was never for me about, youknow, taking someone's job.
(31:17):
It was more about how can weall kind of work together and
the lessons I learned by youknow, maybe not being as
respected in.
You know, when I was behind thedesk in a hallway answering
somebody's phone, when thatbehavior was sort of put forth
towards me, it taught me exactlywho I didn't want to be.
And and I remember thinking,wow, you know, she just called
(31:41):
me that.
Or you know she just called meher secretary, and actually my
title is a coordinator, and and,just because I'm not a big
executive, that's a kind ofderogatory.
You know, take that sort of ina derogatory way, and and and I
it's unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yeah, I mean, sometimes women don't help women
, and that's.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
That's, yeah, and, and I what I learned from that
was, when I'm in that office, itdoesn't matter if the person
sitting outside my desk is asecretary, they will be called
my assistant and I will alwaysmake sure that I say they work
with me, not for me, and I'venever wavered from that and I
(32:20):
think to some degree.
You know, having that happen tome made me a better, more aware
executive and it's made me veryconscious of of always wanting
to mentor and support ratherthan, you know, keep people at
arm's length and and that's just, you know I, that's always been
really important to me.
(32:40):
You know, sometimes you learnlessons the hard way and
certainly didn't, and it didn'taffect my career negatively, but
it definitely made me moreaware of the differences and the
way people perceive, you know,women, women in the business,
coming up in the business.
So I think there's a lot moretransparency now.
(33:02):
To answer your question.
Sorry to go off on a tangent,but to answer your question, I
think there's a lot moretransparency, there's a lot more
open dialogue.
There are certainly a lot moreorganizations that empower women
with knowledge, with resources,with connections and and
(33:22):
encourage these kinds of openconversations.
You know, gosh, if I had eversaid to someone back then.
You know, hey, I'd like a light, I'd like a work-life balance.
I would have been shown thedoor Cause, what's that?
That wasn't even a term.
You know, um, I think it'sgreat that that young people
coming up in the business aremindful of that.
You know, um, and that it isn'texpected, uh, to not have a
(33:44):
family.
If you want to have a family, oryou know, the one thing that I
think is, you know, andcertainly there's more, there's
still more work to be done.
You know, pay, I don't believeis equity.
I don't think there's equity inpay, yet, you know, I can't
prove that, but I'm pretty surethat that's still.
You know that that's still awork in progress.
The one thing that I would loveto see this is where, maybe
(34:09):
this is a strange thing to sayfor all of the wonderful
organizations that support womenand creators and I'm a member
of and an active volunteer inmany I wish there were more that
included men or all genders,let's say.
You know what I mean Likeincluded everyone, because
(34:30):
sometimes I think, you know,when it's sort of focused on one
specific thing in particular,whether it's gender, whether
it's, you know it's the wholepoint is that we all, we all
work together in this industry.
And how do?
You, how do you?
get a man to think differentlyabout speaking to a woman in a
(34:51):
certain way if the man isn'tinvolved in that conversation.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
You know yeah, I mean , I guess grammy, you does that
a bit, it's, it's, it's all, allgender there are yeah and
that's, but that's.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
that's a very specific organization for, for,
you know, sort of emerging, youknow, as far as everyone in the
business.
So, yeah, more organizationsand, you know, advocacy
communities that are popping upthat could also include everyone
and so that we can all learnhow to engage with each other
(35:23):
more effectively and talk aboutthese things in a room full of
everyone.
That that's.
You know that's a weird thingto say, but that's I.
There are some organizationsthat do that and there are also
some that honor, you know, notjust women executive, even if
it's a more focused on sort ofuh, you know, um, a specific
area, whether it's production orbehind the scenes creation.
(35:45):
There are a lot oforganizations to support
creators behind the scenes, andI think that's amazing and also
very needed, because that'salways been sort of inherently
more of a boys club, but anyway,so that's where I think there
still could be Trying to make.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Make organizations that work with all genders so
that they're sort of coming uptogether and working together to
work better together.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Yeah, because that's the business.
You know.
We're not going into companieswhere there's only one gender or
one type of creator.
How do we all learn to worktogether and be more mindful of
each other's strengths and thesepitfalls and these problems
that are still, sort of, youknow, inherent in the business?
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Yes, and then something I'm trying to do here
is, even though it's called, sheCreates Noise, and I'm
interviewing women.
You know I'm trying to, not nota boo-hoo attitude, you know,
because there are a lot of womenlike yourself that have really
(36:50):
made a difference and opened alot of doors.
And even what you're talkingabout with making sure young
executives or young assistantsnow are treated with respect in
ways that you felt you were not,yeah, it was much more
customary back then.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
You know, whatever your title was and my first
title, I think, was likereceptionist secretary.
So it's not that the people whoreferred to me as that, you
know calling me something that Iwasn't, but there was always a
different perception of thatword in the industry and I
learned that really quickly that, you know, a secretary was
(37:24):
someone who was really just anadministrator and that's an
incredibly important andvaluable position.
I'm not trying to, you know,but, but there are people who
were secretaries for bigexecutives whose role was to be
that position of service andthere wasn't an aspiration to,
you know, go into other areas.
For me it was a, it was astepping stone because I always
kind of knew what I wanted to doand I was so grateful to get
(37:44):
those opportunities.
But I always wanted to be moreand I worked hard to prove
myself and so it just wassomething that always stuck with
me.
Like you know, the different,the different ways that a title
can brand you, and and for womenin the day that I grew up,
being called a secretary wasconsidered sort of you like
(38:05):
that's the lane you are.
You know, I remember somebodysort of asking me that's the
lane you are.
You know, I remember somebodysort of asking me about myself
when I was sitting behind a deskand uh, and they're like, oh,
who are you?
You're new, you know where,what's, what's your deal here?
And uh, and you know, and Imade some comment like, oh, yeah
, and I'm, you know, went toCornell.
Oh, you mean, you're smart.
I was like, oh, like and and,and it was a man said that who
(38:25):
almost sort of indicated thatbeing smart in the position of
secretary was a liability.
And I was like, wow, ok, noted,yikes, yeah, but you know,
that's like maybe the worstthing that ever happened to me.
So that's OK, that's, that'spretty good.
I understand Scheme of all thethings that could happen when
you're starting to try to builda career and a reputation.
(38:46):
I laugh at that stuff now andthink it's kind of quaint.
But also that stuff justreminded me of, like, who I
didn't want to be and how I hadto treat people.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Good story, because I've heard some much more
concerning stories, but, youknow, in a funny way.
But this is nice to hear thatyou had such a pleasant, you
know, hard working but stilldidn't didn't have too many
people insulting you in any way.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
Well, and I learned how to have a thick skin.
When those things happened, orwhen I felt that I was being
slighted or not heard, I justalways really tried to rise
above it and to not dwell.
And it's not to say I didn't gohome and, you know, fall into a
puddle on some days, but Ithink it made me stronger, it
made me more aware and certainly, when I think about where I'm
at now and how to shape, reshapethat narrative to to do better
(39:49):
with, you know, in my currentcircumstances and as a mentor,
that's great, I'm so impressed.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Yeah, and I want some of that.
I want that, believe me every.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
You know every day is a different day and you know,
but but I, I, I do try to, asbest as possible, be glass half
full and contribute as much asI'm able, and challenge myself
to do more every day, which is alittle exhausting, but awesome
too Well.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
I know you and I had the same Grammy U mentee and
she's a big fan.
I told her I was going tointerview you.
She's lovely and you know.
I know she felt you wereincredibly helpful and
supportive to her.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
I love that program and I have met and, you know,
engaged with some incrediblestudents.
You know, many who have gone onto be working in the business,
and great roles.
It's such a, it's such a.
I wish there was an opportunitylike that for me starting, you
know, in this career.
Those kind of organizations orthose kinds of programs didn't,
(40:45):
as far as I know, didn't existback in the day.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
You're very active and is there anyone you're
looking at or some artistsyou're excited about right now,
or maybe you can't mention theirnames.
I probably can't mention theones.
I'm in the middle of, but yes,always yes.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
I'm always looking.
There are a couple of artiststhat I'm in the process of,
hopefully getting deals closedfairly soon.
Really, you know quitedifferent the ones that I'm
currently in process with mightsurprise some people when the
records come out, and that'sreally fun and exciting.
(41:21):
And again to have theopportunity to work with such a
broad range of talent at acompany like mine is such an
incredible gift.
Also just continues to allow meto really grow creatively and
to walk into new relationshipswith new ideas and different.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
You know we're not following, we're not sort of
following trends, and I lovethat about our company so, lee,
um, thank you so much again forall of your interesting uh
insights, and I just thought,while we're sort of finishing up
(42:00):
here, we could talk about whatadvice you would give to people
that want to get into thisbusiness, um, especially women
who are looking towards a careerin the music industry.
What are your insights andthoughts about that?
Speaker 4 (42:14):
I mean, one of the things I always say to students
and mentees is, if you want tobe in this business, it starts
with a love of music and apassion for wanting to work
around that art in whatevercapacity.
But it's not just about music.
You should really be educated,not just about music but about
(42:34):
you know music sort of is shapedby and drives culture.
Pay attention to everything youknow.
Read books, not just aboutmusic.
Read literature.
Read books to expand your mind.
Watch films, watchdocumentaries.
Pay attention to what'shappening globally Music is
really on a global scale orthere are trends happening
(42:55):
outside the US.
The more you educate yourselfand become a very well-rounded
human, the more you bring to therole whatever the role is in
music and the arts in general.
There's so muchcross-collaboration.
Music that is in is found in somany places now, which is
amazing.
(43:15):
But how can you be betterinformed about how those
opportunities can be created?
You know finding music in avideo game, an international
film.
I always just sort of encouragestudents to and you know rising
executives to just build youknow work on, be curious.
You know I just want toencourage curiosity and
(43:38):
knowledge and creativity and Ithink that, whatever role it is
that you're looking to do inthis business, if you're curious
, and you're, and you operatefrom a place of integrity and
love and passion and at leastfor me service, then you're
going to find something that'srewarding and you can build
towards that.
So you know, it isn't justabout, hey, be an expert in one
thing.
I'm a big proponent of knowabout as much as you can about
(44:01):
everything, and then the lanethat you are best suited for
you'll be able to bring a lot tothat role.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
So just be a well-rounded person and jump in
at any level.
I think is another thing.
Like you were saying, youstarted out as an assistant
slash secretary, yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
And don't be afraid of that.
Whatever the entry point is,honestly, if you start at that
ground level, it gives anopportunity for learning.
I tried to be a sponge when Iwas sitting out in the hallway
or sitting behind thereceptionist desk and talking to
people and asking questions andwhen you're young and you're
(44:39):
trying to figure out who you areand what you want to be in this
business in the world.
I do find that if you askrespectfully, most people have
answers and most people want toengage with you and I built a
lot of relationships early on inmy career by being curious and
asking questions and I try tostill do that.
I ask questions of my studentsand my mentees because I learned
(45:00):
from them.
They're growing up at adifferent time and a different
vantage point in the business,really a different industry than
I grew up in and that we grewup in.
I ask questions and I learn andI think that's part of the joy
of being in a kind of evolving,creative business.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Yeah, it's exciting.
Well again, Lee, thank you somuch.
It's been great to have you andI look forward to listening and
learning as I listen to all thecool stuff we spoke about.
And thanks for being a guesttoday.
Speaker 4 (45:31):
Well, thank you, sarah, for inviting me.
This was really fun to talkabout some things that I haven't
talked about in a long time,and it's really wonderful that
you're doing this, and I thinkit's great to be able to
highlight people's stories andshare this with anyone, with you
know, uh, with anyone who caresto listen.
So, um, thank you for makingtime to do this thank you so
(45:51):
much, voice she creates noise.
Hi, you're listening to Sarah Nagourney and welcome
to.
She Creates Noise, a newpodcast spotlighting women who
power the music industry, comingto you from New York City.
Now, if you don't know me yet,here's a little background.
I'm a songwriter, producer,manager, educator and mentor.
I've written platinum sellingsongs, had tracks on Grammy
nominated educator and mentor.
(00:45):
I've written platinum-sellingsongs, had tracks on
Grammy-nominated records andreleased music on both major and
independent labels.
I've been a jazz singer, ajingle singer, toured with big
bands and became a pop artist,and I've performed at festivals
across the US, europe and Asia.
These days, I focus on writingwith and developing young talent
.
In the coming weeks, I'll bepulling back the curtain on the
(01:07):
music industry's femalechangemakers.
Some are close friends, othersI'm just getting to know, but
all have reshaped the businessin profound ways.
My goal here is to helplisteners better understand how
the music business really worksand just how instrumental women
behind the scenes have been.
You'll hear from both sides ofthe desk artists, producers,
(01:32):
managers, label executives,lawyers.
Women making things happen,often without the spotlight on
them.
Thank you for joining me onthis journey.
Now let's dive in.
(01:55):
Today's guest is Leigh Danae.
Leigh is a veteran A&Rexecutive with over 30 years of
experience in the music industry.
She's held senior roles at SonyMusic and Warner Chapel,
working with artists like JohnMayer, brandi Carlile, train and
the Oscar-winning duo From Once.
Her career spans labels,publishing and television,
including her work as a musicproducer for America's Got
Talent.
She currently heads A&R at 30Tigers and teaches at NYU in
(02:16):
Hofstra.
Lee is also president of theRecording Academy New York
Chapter and active in severalmajor music organizations and
non-profits.
I really appreciate Lee makingthe time for us today.
Thank you so much and welcome.
My first question here isreally you know you've worked
(02:36):
with such a wide range ofartists from John Mayer to
Brandi Carlile, gavin DeGraw,iron and Wine Glenn Hansard Phew
, it's unbelievable.
How do you approach artistdevelopment across such
different genres andpersonalities?
What stays consistent in yourprocess?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Well, thank you.
First of all, thanks for thevery kind and generous
introduction and it is nice toface meet you, although I know
we've met before and wecertainly have been in
concentric circles for manyyears, so it's really an honor
to be asked to do this and totalk about things I've done when
I was thinking about thatquestion.
There are so many answers.
Each artist sort of requirestheir own individual answer and
(03:15):
the way I tried to sort of sumit up so that we're not here all
day, it kind of depends on twosort of main things the entry
point, in which the relationshipstarts with the artist If I've
done sort of the old-fashionedA&R found the artist championed
them, developed them and workedwith them from an early point in
(03:35):
their career.
There's kind of like an organictrust and relationship that
builds throughout that processand that's maybe the simplest
way of working with an artist,because the conversations are
all about who they are and whatthey're doing and where they
want to go, and so it becomes avery sort of just.
It's really just an organicprocess.
(03:56):
But also as an A&R person andI've done a lot of this, both on
the label side and a little bitin publishing too.
Sometimes A&R people say thiswith sort of air quotes like
inherit an artist you know orask to get involved in an artist
who's already previously beenwith the company you're working
with, and that relationship isentirely different and in some
(04:18):
ways sometimes it can be a lotharder because you're coming in
with your own preconceptions.
The artist has had differentrelationships with different A&R
people and sometimes when youinherit an artist just by virtue
of and this is not a personalthing to me specifically, but
there's an inherent mistrust orskepticism when someone new sort
(04:39):
of takes over the creativerelationship.
And that's actually somethingbecause I've always been a bit
of that I don't know how to callit like jack of all trades
worker, be a and our person.
My background, learning how todo the craft of a and our came
from being involved in a lot ofdifferent projects at Sony very
early on in my career.
I think that that's for mepersonally it was a gift because
(05:02):
it allowed me to have a lot ofdifferent experiences learning
how to make records, doingcompilation projects, doing
catalog work, doing benefitrecords, not just signing and
developing and making artistsand making records.
It taught me a lot about thegeneral process of artist
development and helping createmusic with artists.
So so I think, because Istarted that way, I've often
(05:25):
been the one within the companyto inherit artists who are
either, um, have been kind oforphaned when a company changes
over and people uh, um, oryou'll say, you know, hey, we're
having some trouble with thisone, or or this isn't really,
you know a little bit, yeah, alittle bit of the fixer sort of,
but.
But I've always taken that as acompliment and I've also taken
it really seriously.
(05:46):
And I think some of thatmistrust that I've had this
conversation with artists overthe years some of the mistrust
is that artists get signed andthen their point person leaves
the company for whatever reasonand then they feel abandoned.
And you know, how do you trustsome stranger, no matter what
their reputation is?
How do you trust a strangerwith your art and your and your
creative work and how do youhave those personal
(06:06):
conversations?
Because at the end of the day,the music artists write is
personal and it's coming fromtheir heart.
It's like every time an artistwrites a song, it's like they're
giving birth to a child, youknow, in a way.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Can you separate a little like some what were some
of the you know ground up peoplethat you did find and some of
the ones that you inherited?
If you don't mind mentioningjust a few examples, yeah, I
mean I can.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
On the label side, I would say most of the artists I
find involved in science, likeJohn Mayer, anna Nalick.
I inherited Train, who I onlyworked with really briefly.
I inherited Fight for Fighting,who I did work with for a while
, and that was one where Ireally had to build some trust
and it was a little complicated,but I think we got there.
And then, on the publishingside, when I worked with artists
(06:50):
you know some that youmentioned Gavin DeGraw, iron
Wine, glenn Hansard those wereall artists that were within the
company and, you know, honestly, were orphaned and I helped
both kind of get the deals done,redone and kept them on the
roster, but also jumped in at apoint where most of those
artists already had pretty wellestablished careers but
(07:14):
publishing was an importantcomponent of where they were
going in the future, both interms of collaborations and just
sort of advancing their career.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
You had to kind of make them comfortable and show
that you were there.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
And show that I was just like not another suit who
was there to just kind of acceptthe delivery of music and every
artist, and I really understandwhy they feel that way.
There's a lot of turnover inthe industry and when you're
especially when you're signed toa publishing deal which has a
lengthier term, there's almostinevitably turnover with the
(07:46):
creative staff at a certainpoint.
So you're not having sort ofthat lifetime relationship with
an artist.
Part of what I have always feltis important about A&R and what
I feel my most valuable role toan artist, both on the label
and the publishing side, is likewhat I've always said is being
of service, and being of serviceto an artist at any entry point
(08:08):
.
So, whereas it's not alwayssort of the requirement of the
job to dive in with your wholeheart, sometimes it's like hey,
can you just handle this, canyou just take care of this and
be the point person formaintenance, so to speak.
And I've always tried to bemore than that and be the person
that the artist or songwritercan trust, because I think that
that's really needed in ourbusiness and also I'd love to do
(08:28):
that Honestly.
That's what I consider artistdevelopment and that's what I
consider being different aboutthe role of A&R Also.
You know, obviously the mainrole of A&R on the surface is
you're a talent scout.
You're the one who'sidentifying talent and bringing
them in at any, whatever thatstage is.
You're bringing them inhopefully allowing them to have
a successful career with thecompany you're working for.
That requires development too.
(08:50):
That requires trust.
So that's how, with each artistI've worked with, there's been
a different entry point and someI've had to work harder at
building trust.
I think I was largelysuccessful with most artists
I've worked with with buildingtrust.
But some artists also just kindof keep you at arm's length and
when that happens I respectthat.
If an artist has had a very likeGlenn Hansard is a great
(09:10):
example.
We always had a very cordialrelationship and he was lovely
to deal with.
I am still close to his managerand we've worked together
subsequently and I think thatthey knew that I was always
there to support and championand be of service in any way
possible, even when it was likerenegotiating a deal, kind of
getting behind them to help getthe best terms.
But he isn't someone whocreatively kind of bore his soul
(09:33):
to me and said, ok, I want toplay you these songs in progress
, or what do you think of this?
When I'd see him, we'd havegreat conversations, but then
there just wasn't that sort ofbond.
He was well established andprobably didn't have that before
me either.
Quite honestly, I think that'sjust the kind of artist he is.
You know he has that with otherpeople Interesting.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
I mean, I've certainly known artists that
were signed and suffered the,you know, key man clause not
taking place and they didn'thave someone to represent them
and they got dropped, or I meanthat's more typical, sadly.
But it sounds like, you know,when you stepped in you really
rolled up your sleeves and luckythem to have had you.
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
I think that's important.
I also enjoy that process.
You know, again, sometimes it'sit's more successful than
others, even in terms of what Ican contribute and what I can
help add value to.
But I think that when, when youhave that opportunity and when
we have that role, that's theresponsibility.
I just take that responsibilityreally seriously and I enjoy
sort of diving in like oh,here's a new artist that I have
(10:30):
inherited and let me find outwhere he's at and where.
Let me find out where she's atand what they need and how can I
bring value to where they're at.
They were signed for a reason.
They, their talent, isexceptional and was greatly
desired at some point by whoeversigned them prior to me.
And let me try to honor that.
And as long as thatrelationship exists, build on it
and I think that sort ofdifferentiates the role of an
(10:54):
A&R person from just being atalent scout and both are
important, but that's justalways been my something I just
care about.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
In there to keep supporting them and not letting
them float off and be forgottenabout or whatever.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
know what's going on in in music at all in all genres
, and and you know who are thenew writers that are coming up
and doing good work, who are theyou know who are some great
(11:29):
producers.
When I hear still like I couldbe driving in my car and
listening to you know, sirius XM, and I hear a new song by an
artist and my first thought islike Ooh, who produced that song
?
It's great.
Or, you know, I wonder whowrote this?
Or did they write it togetheror alone, or together as a band
or with collaborators?
And that that sort of behindthe scenes creative process
(11:50):
really interests me.
And and it's always kind of thefirst question I ask is like
okay, who'd you work with?
You know and and, and if I don'tknow them, should I, I should
you know so.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
You really stay on top.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Yeah, and so I it.
It.
It sort of necessitates mestaying on top of things because
that's how I can be of serviceand that's the value I can bring
to any project or any artist.
I also really enjoy that.
I feel like that just makes memore present in this
ever-changing industry and keepsme as current as possible at a
time where things are justturning around and turning over
(12:21):
super quickly.
So I definitely work hard to dothat and certainly don't know
everyone, but try really hardwhen I don't know someone to
dive into their work and, youknow, get to know what's, you
know what they can offer to anartist or to a you know, to a
band.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
And now you're at 30 Tigers, where you support a much
more independent roster.
How does A&R an indie-facingcompany like that differ from
your experience at major labelslike Sony or Warner's?
Speaker 4 (12:55):
It's in some ways exactly the same and in some
ways entirely different.
How's that for a vague answer?
Well, so it's the same in that,you know, again, as one of the
most important parts of A&R,identifying talent finding, you
know, signing artists, trying tobe out in the industry and find
(13:16):
the right artists who fit withthe ethos of our company, who we
can be successful for and with.
That's always the main role ofan A&R person.
The different process and thethings that I was talking about
you know kind of in the priorquestion.
I still do that with some ofthe artists I work with.
(13:37):
It's not a mandate and it's notsomething that is either
required or necessitated interms of the way our company
works.
You know, part of the reason, ahuge part of the reason that
attracted me to joining thecompany was the philosophy that
the whole company is a serviceto artists.
(13:57):
We are, you know, a labelservices but, you know, being a
dedicated partner with ourartists in service of all of the
different departments that youknow kind of make up 30 Tigers,
all of the different ways thatour company can be of service to
support the artists own work.
(14:18):
And you know our artists owntheir own masters.
You know, get involved in anyintellectual property by design.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
And more established artists.
Overall, you know the Bruce, wehave all we have all levels,
you know.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
I mean we have some new and developing artists and
we're always looking.
We have a.
We have a very large roster,broad roster, both in terms of
genre and just, you know, kindof the number of artists that
will put records through ourcompany.
So, you know, we curate.
We're not a, we're not a volumebusiness by nature.
We, you know, we, have adistribution based model so that
(14:56):
we are able to be of service.
Like, honestly, like you know,creative service marketing,
service promotion.
We offer a lot of the most ofthe services of a traditional
label, but with a very differentethos.
With, you know, creativeservice marketing, service
promotion.
We offer a lot of the most ofthe services of a traditional
label, but with a very differentethos.
With you know, we are going togive you the best of our
expertise.
We will work collaborativelywith you and help you accomplish
your goals, but you own yourwork.
So, at the end of the day, allof the work that I might do with
(15:18):
some of those artists if theyask for it, it's not a
negotiation.
It's me saying, hey, you knowyou need some help or you've
asked for some help, or I have asuggestion we could do this,
they have 100% control overtheir art and can say thanks for
the suggestion, no thanks.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
And for those listening that don't know the
difference between a major isthey own your master's and in
something like 30 Tigers, theartist owns a masters and you're
at offering label services tosupport, promotion and etc right
just to help them create theirbest work and then to give them
a path for release.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
And you know, and ultimately the goals are both
majors and indies are the same.
We want to have successfulcareers with our artists, you
know, for our artists and withour artists.
I think the mandates on themajor label side that I had were
all for the good of you know,making helping accomplish a goal
, make a successful record, havea successful release.
(16:15):
You know, develop and break anartist, but there are just
different pressures.
You know there's different whenthere's a different economic
model.
That sort of ends up.
You know there's a lot in abigger company there's bigger,
more cooks in the kitchen.
I'll just say that and and Inever I didn't have so many
instances throughout my career Iwas very fortunate in that
(16:36):
there we've always had in myexperience is a lot of the
relationships I had, even in theearly days, were also
collaborative and supportive.
Even in the early days werealso collaborative and
supportive, you know.
But but if ever there's therewas an argument over like we
want this single or that single,there was certainly more
pressure for me in my earlierpart of my career to, you know,
help make the, the artist,understand why what they might
(16:59):
have wanted wasn't the, wasn'tthe right way or wasn't the way
that the company had a visionfor, always challenging right.
It was always sat really badlywith me and I didn't like being
the messenger or the bearer ofnews that I didn't believe in or
support.
It didn't happen that often,but just being put in that
position always made me feellike I was.
I never want to be disingenuousand often I didn't agree with
(17:24):
things that were being asked ofme to do and that sort of led to
me saying, ok, there must be abetter way.
And I found that with DirtyTigers, where the ethos of our
company and the philosophy isexactly what I've believed my
significance in a role of A&R isis to be of service, to be of
support, to be of service, to beof support, but ultimately let
(17:46):
the artist have agency overtheir intellectual property and
to be able to make and releaserecords with supportive,
creative services, notdirectives.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
So that's the difference.
Now it's fantastic.
I mean, I was like where wereyou when I was a young artist?
I needed you.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Well, you could ask my boss that he was building
this company, because we've beenaround, I think, almost 25
years and and and probably neverbeen more needed or or or
appreciated than you know.
As the industry has changed and, as you know, the economics of
our business have changed.
It's different.
It's different, you know it,majors now and and certainly
(18:24):
different than when I was there.
So again, I feel very luckythat I had largely really
wonderful experiences andlearned the craft that I still
am very lucky to get to employfrom time to time as an old
school A&R person, but also gotto work with a lot of different
artists, genre wise, which whichalso just suits me.
(18:46):
That's my.
You know, you always have toplay to your strengths, I think,
in whatever role you have inthis business and I love all
genres of music.
I always have.
I have a lot of curiosity aboutmusic and, like I said, I hear
something.
I'm like who's behind that?
Who's involved?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
You know, and sort of the first thing I think of.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
So I'm very lucky that I still get to do that in
the way that we do it at 30Tigers.
That's great.
Sounds like a wonderful label.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
You've long been a champion of emerging writers,
and your work with WarnerChappell's Global Writing Camps
helped reshape howcollaborations happen.
I'm wondering when did you dosome of those camps?
How long ago was that?
15 plus years ago.
Yeah, that would have been earlybecause, let's face it, song
camps are so typical.
Now, I mean, someone we're herewith today is at an Amazon song
(19:40):
camp.
I was just there, oh yeah, okay, I did one during the pandemic
myself, called Songs Across theWater, which was to try to
improve visibility of New Yorkwriters, and it was all virtual.
And also, way back in the day,I did Chris Difford's Song Camp,
which was a long time ago,probably 20 plus.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
That's awesome.
They've been around, certainlynot as common a practice as they
are today.
I actually and I'm very proudof this.
But it's a point that I wantedto sort of share about the whole
, that whole sort of concept,like when I started at Warner
Chapel, like I said, I inheriteda pretty large roster.
(20:21):
The company had gone throughsome changes.
There was a new team in placeand when I dove in there I found
that the writers and theartists that I had been assigned
a lot of them were feelingreally orphaned corporation as a
whole back then.
It left a lot of writersfeeling orphaned, and I was also
(20:52):
.
It was at a time where therewasn't really a lot of signing
and things because again, therewas a lot of transition.
So I jump into this role and Ithink what can I do?
You know, I've inherited aroster.
I can't really sign too much.
What can I do to be of serviceand what can I do to add value
and to engender trust with a lotof the disenchanted, you know,
creators that I was meeting andI thought like, hey, let's do a
(21:15):
writer camp.
But my goal for that particularcamp was it was only Warner
Chapel writers and it waslargely to boost morale and to
sort of connect the dots withall of the writers in different
regions that were feeling thisway.
You know, and I thought youknow what an interesting way to
(21:36):
try to do this.
We can build community at thecompany, we can boost morale.
Of course, hopefully that'lllead to some cuts and some great
you know copyrights, which Ithink you know they did.
But I was also very lucky atthe time that I sort of proposed
this.
You know, cost money to dowriter camps and did you go
somewhere exotic or where?
I did too, and I think therewere many done after I left the
(21:59):
company.
The first one I did in New Yorkand I pulled a lot of favors.
I called people I knew atstudios and negotiated some
great rates, got a few placessort of donated because of
people who owned the studio,were writers and asked to be
part of it, and I broughtwriters in from New York, from
the UK, from Nashville and LosAngeles, and I really curated it
(22:21):
based on the artists andwriters and more writers, writer
producers that I had gotten toknow, and I tried to balance a
couple of the new, newer, youngwriter producers with a couple
of more established writerproducers from each of the.
You know each of the offices.
And when I brought the idea tomy then boss, he really
(22:45):
supported it and gave me thegreen light to do it and it was
great.
I mean, we had a week of.
A couple of the bigger namewriters were like I'll come in
for a day or two but I've got togo do something else.
And they all stayed for fivedays and and I did, and this was
a learning experience for me.
I'd never done anything likethis before and I'm pretty sure
(23:08):
Warner I won't swear to this,but I'm pretty sure that hadn't
been done before internally.
So I brought people from eachof the companies and you know
who did A&R to help and to sortof say, hey, who are your
writers that we can bring in,who would be a great fit for
this?
And you know we all workedcollaboratively and that was
also part of my goal was to, youknow, work collaboratively with
the different offices at thetime and they were a blast.
It was so successful that wedid it I don't remember how long
(23:32):
after, but we did it inNashville and I'm pretty sure
they still do it, you know soand there was really sort of
early days for those kind ofthings and you know now they
happen in so many different wayswhen they're done right, with
intention, and those camps didlead to some cuts.
So I was going to tell you alittle story about something
that happened in that camp.
That was such an interestinglearning experience for me.
(23:54):
I had put together a top linewriter artist from Nashville
who's sort of a soul singer, apop producer from Los Angeles
and a lyric writer from I'msorry, and a lyric writer from
Nashville.
And sorry, the artist was asoul singer who was not from
Nashville but kind of living inNashville, like three really
(24:16):
different creators, you know,with very different experiences.
And as they were writing, oneof them came out from the room
and said, hey, we want you tohear something Like, we think
we're onto something really coolhere, what do you think?
And they pulled me in and theywere the reason they wanted me
here.
One was they were reallyexcited.
Two, they couldn't decide ifthey were writing a country song
(24:37):
or a pop song and I thoughtthat was such a funny, you know,
sort of question.
And then I was like, hmm, Ithink it's a country song and I
brought in someone from Nash, myNashville office, who was there
to listen, and I said what doyou think?
And she said I think it's a popsong, and so so it was such a
funny experience listening to asong grow that way, you know,
(25:01):
and wondering where it could goand how the instrumentation and
how the demo kind of inform thatprocess.
And we ultimately decided weloved the song so much we cut it
in a couple of different waysas a demo and that song had been
on from that camp, had been onhold with Josh Groban and on
hold with Blake Shelton, andBlake Shelton's team asked for
(25:27):
it to be redemod, maybe threetimes, you know one with a pedal
steel, one with a, a, a malevocal, one with a female, you
know, like, like, all sort ofjust little tweaks that didn't
necessarily change the inherentum song but gave it different
feeling, and Blake Shelton endedup cutting it Um, and and so.
So in the end we were like Iguess it was a country song, you
(25:47):
know, and and.
But it was such a greatlearning experience at the
process of collaboration andsongwriting, it was such a.
It all came about in such akind of loving and supportive
way and when that song got cutand then ultimately I think it
was I think he had a gold ormaybe platinum out, you know
what?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
was the song called.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
It was God.
I'm going to blank out on thename of the song.
I'll tell you in a second.
It was not a single, but it was.
You know, it was a song thatwas really beloved.
So anyway, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I spent a lot of time talking about that.
Yeah, no, I love.
I love stories like that.
That's just the kind of thing Iwanted to like talk about some
cool stuff that had happenedwith you.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Okay, I'm going to let the song title.
It's called Do you Remember?
And of course I didn't rememberbecause that was so long ago.
That's the song.
It was wracking my brain.
I'm like I'm not going to getoff this topic.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Sorry, Do you Remember?
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Do you remember it was written by a writer named
Will Gray, a writer-producer,ian Kropachick, and a lyric
Nashville songwriter, michaelDelaney, who are all fantastic
artists and fantastic creators.
Will very tragically passedaway very young, not that long
(27:04):
after that camp, actually passedaway very young, not that long
after that camp actually.
So there's a lot of sort oflove and nostalgia around that
song for me personally, anyway,I got to when Will got sick.
I think Blake had just released, he released the record and I
actually got to bring Will, Ithink, a gold record right
before he passed away, his firstand only gold record, so from
(27:27):
that song.
So it was a very personallyimportant time in my
professional career.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
It's great that the song did get heard.
That's that's an importantthing, yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
It's really.
It's really fun when you knowto be part of like that process
from zero to that.
You know and see how it's going.
I learned a lot.
You know those, all of thosekinds of experiences and every
time I've worked with a whetherit's an artist or a
collaborative, you knowexperience like that.
I learned so much about thecreative process and and
hopefully that informs you knowideas and thoughts I can bring
(27:58):
to other artists.
That's a big part of what Icare about as well when I'm
doing this kind of work.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
It's a great thing to see.
Did you used to go into thestudio in these camps and kind
of sort of check in so you wouldcheck in with what they were
doing?
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Yeah, I actually in that in those two camps I was
there the whole time.
I mean, we, you know I wasrotating between rooms and
studios in New York and and thenin Nashville.
I think we mostly did it in theWarner Chapel Nashville offices
because they had a lot ofstudios.
So so yeah, we would, you know,sort of pop in and out and and
have playbacks and listen towhere they were at and you know,
(28:30):
yeah, just a lot of fun, a lotof fun creating.
That's great.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
That makes it much more real to see, to see the
process, to go in and see doingit creates noise.
You've been a mentor andeducator for years and a strong
advocate for women in music, andI know you've seen the role and
(28:55):
representation of women shift.
Where do you think real changeneeds to happen?
And I know we talked about thisa little bit like you've been
doing this long enough to haveseen change and how has it
affected you and how you know Iknow you've been doing this long
enough to have seen change andhow has it affected you and and
how you know, I know you've all.
Women have to deal with certainnumbers of things, but I think
things have improved a lot notenough, but you know there's a
(29:16):
lot to be grateful for in termsof the opportunities and I think
young people are going tobenefit a lot from.
You know the groundbreakingwork that you did the younger
women, you know, yeah, it's it'sbenefit a lot from.
You know the groundbreakingwork that you did the younger
women.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
You know, yeah it's changed a lot.
One, there are so many morewomen in leadership positions.
You know, across the industry,in every area and even in, you
know, areas that inform music,like you know tech and you know
other platforms where musiclives.
(29:47):
There's, there's, there arewomen executives and, and all of
the C-suite offices andboardrooms.
Way more than when I wasstarting in the business, there
were women.
You know, when I, there werewomen executives and and
certainly some women that Ilooked up to and worked with
early on in my career.
I'll say something that'sprobably sort of controversial
(30:08):
in this in my response to this,that for me and for a lot of
other women I know, coming up atthe time that we did, sort of
surprisingly, I found morementorship and support from some
of my male bosses than femalebosses.
Um, and and I've never reallythat's never sat well with me Um
(30:33):
and it and it's taught me a lotof lessons, you know, and and
again, I think maybe because itwas more competitive for women,
so there was a lot moreterritorialism Um, I found that
I wasn't always respected ortreated respectfully by some
women and that I personally hadless of that happen from men,
(30:53):
and and perhaps my ceiling waslower as a woman, so they, so a
man, could look at me and say,well, you'll never be in my role
, so I can be really nice to you, whereas maybe another woman
said, hey, I don't want you totake my job, so back off.
You know, I'm, I'm, I'mguessing there that that could
have been, you know, somewhat ofa factor.
It was never for me about, youknow, taking someone's job.
(31:17):
It was more about how can weall kind of work together and
the lessons I learned by youknow, maybe not being as
respected in.
You know, when I was behind thedesk in a hallway answering
somebody's phone, when thatbehavior was sort of put forth
towards me, it taught me exactlywho I didn't want to be.
And and I remember thinking,wow, you know, she just called
(31:41):
me that.
Or you know she just called meher secretary, and actually my
title is a coordinator, and and,just because I'm not a big
executive, that's a kind ofderogatory.
You know, take that sort of ina derogatory way, and and and I
it's unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yeah, I mean, sometimes women don't help women
, and that's.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
That's, yeah, and, and I what I learned from that
was, when I'm in that office, itdoesn't matter if the person
sitting outside my desk is asecretary, they will be called
my assistant and I will alwaysmake sure that I say they work
with me, not for me, and I'venever wavered from that and I
(32:20):
think to some degree.
You know, having that happen tome made me a better, more aware
executive and it's made me veryconscious of of always wanting
to mentor and support ratherthan, you know, keep people at
arm's length and and that's just, you know I, that's always been
really important to me.
(32:40):
You know, sometimes you learnlessons the hard way and
certainly didn't, and it didn'taffect my career negatively, but
it definitely made me moreaware of the differences and the
way people perceive, you know,women, women in the business,
coming up in the business.
So I think there's a lot moretransparency now.
(33:02):
To answer your question.
Sorry to go off on a tangent,but to answer your question, I
think there's a lot moretransparency, there's a lot more
open dialogue.
There are certainly a lot moreorganizations that empower women
with knowledge, with resources,with connections and and
(33:22):
encourage these kinds of openconversations.
You know, gosh, if I had eversaid to someone back then.
You know, hey, I'd like a light, I'd like a work-life balance.
I would have been shown thedoor Cause, what's that?
That wasn't even a term.
You know, um, I think it'sgreat that that young people
coming up in the business aremindful of that.
You know, um, and that it isn'texpected, uh, to not have a
(33:44):
family.
If you want to have a family, oryou know, the one thing that I
think is, you know, andcertainly there's more, there's
still more work to be done.
You know, pay, I don't believeis equity.
I don't think there's equity inpay, yet, you know, I can't
prove that, but I'm pretty surethat that's still.
You know that that's still awork in progress.
The one thing that I would loveto see this is where, maybe
(34:09):
this is a strange thing to sayfor all of the wonderful
organizations that support womenand creators and I'm a member
of and an active volunteer inmany I wish there were more that
included men or all genders,let's say.
You know what I mean Likeincluded everyone, because
(34:30):
sometimes I think, you know,when it's sort of focused on one
specific thing in particular,whether it's gender, whether
it's, you know it's the wholepoint is that we all, we all
work together in this industry.
And how do?
You, how do you?
get a man to think differentlyabout speaking to a woman in a
(34:51):
certain way if the man isn'tinvolved in that conversation.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
You know yeah, I mean , I guess grammy, you does that
a bit, it's, it's, it's all, allgender there are yeah and
that's, but that's.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
that's a very specific organization for, for,
you know, sort of emerging, youknow, as far as everyone in the
business.
So, yeah, more organizationsand, you know, advocacy
communities that are popping upthat could also include everyone
and so that we can all learnhow to engage with each other
(35:23):
more effectively and talk aboutthese things in a room full of
everyone.
That that's.
You know that's a weird thingto say, but that's I.
There are some organizationsthat do that and there are also
some that honor, you know, notjust women executive, even if
it's a more focused on sort ofuh, you know, um, a specific
area, whether it's production orbehind the scenes creation.
(35:45):
There are a lot oforganizations to support
creators behind the scenes, andI think that's amazing and also
very needed, because that'salways been sort of inherently
more of a boys club, but anyway,so that's where I think there
still could be Trying to make.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Make organizations that work with all genders so
that they're sort of coming uptogether and working together to
work better together.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Yeah, because that's the business.
You know.
We're not going into companieswhere there's only one gender or
one type of creator.
How do we all learn to worktogether and be more mindful of
each other's strengths and thesepitfalls and these problems
that are still, sort of, youknow, inherent in the business?
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Yes, and then something I'm trying to do here
is, even though it's called, sheCreates Noise, and I'm
interviewing women.
You know I'm trying to, not nota boo-hoo attitude, you know,
because there are a lot of womenlike yourself that have really
(36:50):
made a difference and opened alot of doors.
And even what you're talkingabout with making sure young
executives or young assistantsnow are treated with respect in
ways that you felt you were not,yeah, it was much more
customary back then.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
You know, whatever your title was and my first
title, I think, was likereceptionist secretary.
So it's not that the people whoreferred to me as that, you
know calling me something that Iwasn't, but there was always a
different perception of thatword in the industry and I
learned that really quickly that, you know, a secretary was
(37:24):
someone who was really just anadministrator and that's an
incredibly important andvaluable position.
I'm not trying to, you know,but, but there are people who
were secretaries for bigexecutives whose role was to be
that position of service andthere wasn't an aspiration to,
you know, go into other areas.
For me it was a, it was astepping stone because I always
kind of knew what I wanted to doand I was so grateful to get
(37:44):
those opportunities.
But I always wanted to be moreand I worked hard to prove
myself and so it just wassomething that always stuck with
me.
Like you know, the different,the different ways that a title
can brand you, and and for womenin the day that I grew up,
being called a secretary wasconsidered sort of you like
(38:05):
that's the lane you are.
You know, I remember somebodysort of asking me that's the
lane you are.
You know, I remember somebodysort of asking me about myself
when I was sitting behind a deskand uh, and they're like, oh,
who are you?
You're new, you know where,what's, what's your deal here?
And uh, and you know, and Imade some comment like, oh, yeah
, and I'm, you know, went toCornell.
Oh, you mean, you're smart.
I was like, oh, like and and,and it was a man said that who
(38:25):
almost sort of indicated thatbeing smart in the position of
secretary was a liability.
And I was like, wow, ok, noted,yikes, yeah, but you know,
that's like maybe the worstthing that ever happened to me.
So that's OK, that's, that'spretty good.
I understand Scheme of all thethings that could happen when
you're starting to try to builda career and a reputation.
(38:46):
I laugh at that stuff now andthink it's kind of quaint.
But also that stuff justreminded me of, like, who I
didn't want to be and how I hadto treat people.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Good story, because I've heard some much more
concerning stories, but, youknow, in a funny way.
But this is nice to hear thatyou had such a pleasant, you
know, hard working but stilldidn't didn't have too many
people insulting you in any way.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
Well, and I learned how to have a thick skin.
When those things happened, orwhen I felt that I was being
slighted or not heard, I justalways really tried to rise
above it and to not dwell.
And it's not to say I didn't gohome and, you know, fall into a
puddle on some days, but Ithink it made me stronger, it
made me more aware and certainly, when I think about where I'm
at now and how to shape, reshapethat narrative to to do better
(39:49):
with, you know, in my currentcircumstances and as a mentor,
that's great, I'm so impressed.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Yeah, and I want some of that.
I want that, believe me every.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
You know every day is a different day and you know,
but but I, I, I do try to, asbest as possible, be glass half
full and contribute as much asI'm able, and challenge myself
to do more every day, which is alittle exhausting, but awesome
too Well.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
I know you and I had the same Grammy U mentee and
she's a big fan.
I told her I was going tointerview you.
She's lovely and you know.
I know she felt you wereincredibly helpful and
supportive to her.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
I love that program and I have met and, you know,
engaged with some incrediblestudents.
You know, many who have gone onto be working in the business,
and great roles.
It's such a, it's such a.
I wish there was an opportunitylike that for me starting, you
know, in this career.
Those kind of organizations orthose kinds of programs didn't,
(40:45):
as far as I know, didn't existback in the day.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
You're very active and is there anyone you're
looking at or some artistsyou're excited about right now,
or maybe you can't mention theirnames.
I probably can't mention theones.
I'm in the middle of, but yes,always yes.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
I'm always looking.
There are a couple of artiststhat I'm in the process of,
hopefully getting deals closedfairly soon.
Really, you know quitedifferent the ones that I'm
currently in process with mightsurprise some people when the
records come out, and that'sreally fun and exciting.
(41:21):
And again to have theopportunity to work with such a
broad range of talent at acompany like mine is such an
incredible gift.
Also just continues to allow meto really grow creatively and
to walk into new relationshipswith new ideas and different.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
You know we're not following, we're not sort of
following trends, and I lovethat about our company so, lee,
um, thank you so much again forall of your interesting uh
insights, and I just thought,while we're sort of finishing up
(42:00):
here, we could talk about whatadvice you would give to people
that want to get into thisbusiness, um, especially women
who are looking towards a careerin the music industry.
What are your insights andthoughts about that?
Speaker 4 (42:14):
I mean, one of the things I always say to students
and mentees is, if you want tobe in this business, it starts
with a love of music and apassion for wanting to work
around that art in whatevercapacity.
But it's not just about music.
You should really be educated,not just about music but about
(42:34):
you know music sort of is shapedby and drives culture.
Pay attention to everything youknow.
Read books, not just aboutmusic.
Read literature.
Read books to expand your mind.
Watch films, watchdocumentaries.
Pay attention to what'shappening globally Music is
really on a global scale orthere are trends happening
(42:55):
outside the US.
The more you educate yourselfand become a very well-rounded
human, the more you bring to therole whatever the role is in
music and the arts in general.
There's so muchcross-collaboration.
Music that is in is found in somany places now, which is
amazing.
(43:15):
But how can you be betterinformed about how those
opportunities can be created?
You know finding music in avideo game, an international
film.
I always just sort of encouragestudents to and you know rising
executives to just build youknow work on, be curious.
You know I just want toencourage curiosity and
(43:38):
knowledge and creativity and Ithink that, whatever role it is
that you're looking to do inthis business, if you're curious
, and you're, and you operatefrom a place of integrity and
love and passion and at leastfor me service, then you're
going to find something that'srewarding and you can build
towards that.
So you know, it isn't justabout, hey, be an expert in one
thing.
I'm a big proponent of knowabout as much as you can about
(44:01):
everything, and then the lanethat you are best suited for
you'll be able to bring a lot tothat role.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
So just be a well-rounded person and jump in
at any level.
I think is another thing.
Like you were saying, youstarted out as an assistant
slash secretary, yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
And don't be afraid of that.
Whatever the entry point is,honestly, if you start at that
ground level, it gives anopportunity for learning.
I tried to be a sponge when Iwas sitting out in the hallway
or sitting behind thereceptionist desk and talking to
people and asking questions andwhen you're young and you're
(44:39):
trying to figure out who you areand what you want to be in this
business in the world.
I do find that if you askrespectfully, most people have
answers and most people want toengage with you and I built a
lot of relationships early on inmy career by being curious and
asking questions and I try tostill do that.
I ask questions of my studentsand my mentees because I learned
(45:00):
from them.
They're growing up at adifferent time and a different
vantage point in the business,really a different industry than
I grew up in and that we grewup in.
I ask questions and I learn andI think that's part of the joy
of being in a kind of evolving,creative business.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Yeah, it's exciting.
Well again, Lee, thank you somuch.
It's been great to have you andI look forward to listening and
learning as I listen to all thecool stuff we spoke about.
And thanks for being a guesttoday.
Speaker 4 (45:31):
Well, thank you, sarah, for inviting me.
This was really fun to talkabout some things that I haven't
talked about in a long time,and it's really wonderful that
you're doing this, and I thinkit's great to be able to
highlight people's stories andshare this with anyone, with you
know, uh, with anyone who caresto listen.
So, um, thank you for makingtime to do this thank you so
(45:51):
much, voice she creates noise.
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