May 28, 2025 • 48 mins
With 20 years of experience spanning publishing, distribution, and streaming platforms, Michelle Fantus witnessed—and shaped—dramatic shifts in how we discover, create, and monetize music.
From her beginnings as a receptionist at Sony ATV Music Publishing to her current role as co-head of A&R at Killphonic Rights, Michelle's journey reveals the power of relationship-building and strategic innovation. When she found herself at Spotify during a pivotal moment, she seized the opportunity to create the groundbreaking Equal program and Created by Women playlist, initiatives designed Throughout our conversation, Michelle illuminates the confounding world of music publishing—a system she describes as increasingly complex despite her decades of expertise. She shares how early in her career, she created monthly showcases at legendary New York venues, booking then-unknown artists like Lana Del Rey, Ex-Ambassadors, American Authors, and Dan & Shay, fostering relationships that continue to benefit her professional journey today.
For aspiring industry professionals, Michelle offers practical wisdom: network relentlessly, collaborate widely, and don't wait for permission to create opportunities. Her perspective on AI's inevitable transformation of the music landscape challenges the industry to adapt rather than resist, drawing parallels to the streaming revolution that fundamentally altered the business model
Join us for this enlightening conversation that pulls back the curtain on the music industry's female changemakers and offers a roadmap for anyone looking to navigate its complex terrain. Whether you're a creator seeking to understand publishing or an industry professional working to advance gender equity, Michelle's insights provide valuable guidance for making noise that matters.
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https://www.shecreatesnoise.com/
https://www.sarahnagourney.com
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https://www.instagram.com/shecreatesnoise/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
She creates noise.
She creates noise.
She's moving through the worldwith a powerful voice.
She creates noise.
She creates noise, she createsnoise.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Hi, you're listening to Sarah Nagourney and welcome
to.
She Creates Noise, a newpodcast spotlighting women who
power the music industry, comingto you from New York City.
Now, if you don't know me yet,here's a little background.
I'm a songwriter, producer,manager, educator and mentor.
I've written platinum sellingsongs, had tracks on Grammy
nominated educator and mentor.
I've written platinum-sellingsongs, had tracks on
Grammy-nominated records andreleased music on both major and
independent labels.
I've been a jazz singer, ajingle singer, toured with big
(00:54):
bands and became a pop artist,and I've performed at festivals
across the US, europe and Asia.
These days, I focus on writingwith and developing young talent
.
In the coming weeks, I'll bepulling back the curtain on the
music industry's femalechangemakers.
Some are close friends, othersI'm just getting to know, but
(01:15):
all have reshaped the businessin profound ways.
My goal here is to helplisteners better understand how
the music business really worksand just how instrumental women
behind the scenes have been.
You'll hear from both sides ofthe desk artists, producers,
managers, label executives,lawyers.
Women making things happen,often without the spotlight on
(01:39):
them.
Thank you for joining me onthis journey.
Now let's dive in.
Today's guest, michelle Fantis,is a music business professional
with 20 years of experienceacross music publishing,
distribution and streaming.
She's currently the co-head ofA&R at Kilphonic Rights, a
global music publishing companyand record label.
Now, what makes her backgroundparticularly unique is her deep
(02:02):
experience working withsongwriters in artist
development and music publishing, combined with significant time
spent on the tech side.
She's worked at Concord Music,sony Music, spotify and 1RPM in
A&R, further solidifying herreputation for identifying and
supporting talent in innovativeways.
In this podcast, we'll talk toher about while at Spotify,
(02:26):
michelle spearheaded thegroundbreaking playlist Equal,
as well as Created by Women,highlighting her commitment to
elevating underrepresentedvoices in music.
Her work in artist relationsand publishing has helped many
artists navigate theirrelationship within the industry
.
Now, for those listeners whodon't know much about music
publishing, it's critical forsongwriters and artists to have
(02:48):
a publisher on their side,collecting the royalties as well
as advising them and setting upcollaborations with other
artists and other songwriters.
In the podcast, michelle willtalk about how, while just
getting started at Sony, shecreated a monthly showcase,
finding talent to perform in NewYork City and presenting that
new talent at the no Pulp showat the famous Arlene's Grocery.
(03:12):
Now what's really amazing is,while she was really just
getting started, she had LanaDel Rey, ex-ambassadors,
american Authors Rachel Platten,wakey, wakey and Dan and Shay
at those showcases, which isreally impressive, and she's
still friendly with some ofthese artists.
I'm especially grateful toMichelle here today because not
only all of her extensiveindustry knowledge and
(03:34):
experience, but she's been a keypresence on many, many industry
panels, and she's not just apanelist, she's frequently the
one leading the conversation.
Michelle, thank you so much forbeing here.
Hi, sarah, thank you so muchfor having me here.
It's great to have you Now.
I've known you, I think, forlike 10 years, I'm imagining I
(03:57):
knew you when you were atConcord and then when you were
at 1RPM and Spotify, and you'vealways been incredibly helpful.
Thank you so much.
With all of my people I wasworking with and with your
advice and introductions, andyou're a very generous person.
We've also been a host of someterrific panels Dig-A-Log Days,
(04:17):
south by Southwest, antisocial,going Global, to name a few and
I really think that's a toughjob and I take my hat off to you
because it's hard to handlepeople and egos and, if
conversations go wacky, to keepeverything running smoothly.
So it's especially nice to haveyou here, because I'm a little
new at this side of the desk.
(04:37):
So thank you for being here andbeing willing to be my very
first guest.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I am honored truly, very, very happy to be a part of
this.
Thank you so much, and I lovethat you've started this podcast
.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Yeah, I just think there's a lot of interesting
women out there and I want tokind of raise their profile and
make sure that people know howmuch people that, like yourself,
have trailblazed for otherwomen.
Also, I was interested in howyou kind of got into this crazy
business, because it is not atypical choice.
I know my parents were not sohappy that I chose to be in it,
(05:12):
so how was that whole thing foryou?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, well, I was living in New York during
college, I went to PaceUniversity and I had interned at
Sirius prior to being SiriusXMand I was.
They randomly assign you todifferent shows.
The interns are just kind ofrandomly assigned.
I was assigned to a Cosmo radioshow.
It was a late night datingrelationship sort of call-in
(05:38):
show, and I found it really funto be in an environment that
celebrated individuality.
Each room, each studio had itsown personality.
The Cosmo room was pink and wewere next to some sports room
that had you know little minibasketball hoops and people were
wearing jeans and had tattoosand I just really loved being
(06:02):
surrounded by creative people.
And I was always a music fan andI'm in New York.
So I was thinking what would bea really great music company to
work for and I ended upapplying for the only
entry-level music-related job onSonycom, which was Sony Corp of
(06:22):
America's website.
The only music-related job wasSony ATV Music Publishing and it
was a receptionist position.
So I studied up on musicpublishing.
I'm like, oh, this soundsreally interesting.
They have the Lennon andMcCartney catalog and it seems
like a growing company.
And I nailed the interview, Igot the role and then I was in
(06:44):
the building.
So I guess that's how Ioriginally got my start into
music publishing and then justalways saw the A&R people come
in a little bit late, comingfrom a show the night before
taking all these meetings.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
I want that job.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Real loud.
Yeah, I was like, is that notthe coolest job in the world?
So I realized that's what Iwant to do and I set out to
hopefully try to do it.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
That's great and you've had some other great
positions you worked at otherthan Sony, concord, songwriting
and publishing relations atSpotify, and now you've returned
to publishing at Kelphonic.
How has that transition been?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah.
So I mean, at Sony I had grown,I think I left as director of
A&R in 2014.
And then, as you mentioned, Iwent indie and then indie
company was acquired by amidsize publishing company.
I realized then I thought,career-wise, experience-wise, it
would be useful for me to pivotand kind of diversify my skills
(07:50):
and my network.
I had only ever done musicpublishing and it started to
kind of scare me like what wouldbe next if I did lose my job.
So I pivoted in a year indistro at 1 RPM and then, as you
mentioned, on the streamingside.
On the streaming side I wasworking across music publishing,
working with publishers aroundthe world and the songwriting
(08:11):
community, trying to create newopportunities to offer them
visibility and tools, productsfor music publishers so they
could see their analytics Thingsthat I never had in publishing.
That I always wanted.
As often someone who's an earlymember of an artist, who is a
writer team or a writer whomaybe has cuts with artists
(08:35):
coming out and that song beingsuccessful is their success and
that is our success.
So I still I had such abusiness interest, obviously, in
these projects that I wantedopportunities at streaming
companies that didn't exist formusic publishers.
So I really set out to developthose.
But while there I'm workingwith publishers around the world
(08:58):
, I think I have a really niceperspective, or a useful
perspective, on how the variouspublishers were set up, how they
work, how they are proactive,with opportunities, at least in
the way of DSP opportunities.
Coming back into A&R, I was abit nervous Would I still be
(09:18):
good at this?
Can I still go to shows late atnight as a mom and an older?
Now Very useful, thank you.
I still love going to shows.
I found I can handle that, soI'm grateful for that.
But waking up the next morningor getting woken up, I'm sorry,
at six.
(09:38):
Of course that's the hard part,but I still.
I realize I love it and I'm sohappy to be back.
I really missed being able toset up collaborations between
writers and artists and I reallyever be a songwriter or a
producer.
I understand the business.
(10:08):
I'm a relationships person.
I really love making thoseconnections and I love being
kind of the business mind tocomplement the creatives I work
with.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Yeah, I mean, it's a skill to hear a great song and
understand that it's great andidentify talent.
So that's a really importantskill and it sounds like the
Spotify job was a great hybridof your skills.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, it was wonderful.
I felt like there I was able tomake a difference.
I feel like you know it's nosurprise.
I think there's a lot of angstfrom the publishing and
songwriting community towardsmusic streaming companies and
music tech world in general.
That's a whole can of wormswith so many complex issues
(10:53):
surrounding it that we don'tnecessarily need to get into In
the interest of time.
I love to get into it if anyoneever wants to talk.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
I guess one thing is like something like Amazon does
pay better, but it's got so manyother strings to its bow that
it can afford to pay better,right?
Spotify kind of just does thatthing.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, well, there's yeah, there's a lot of nuances
to it.
I was so happy to take thatrole at Spotify because I wanted
to be an advocate for thisworld that I came from.
That I felt was missing.
So I started there in 2020,just prior to COVID, and at the
(11:35):
time, and still now, especiallynow, I think there's a lot of
negative sentiment, negativesentiment, and I really it's one
thing to to I think understand,or think you understand even,
(11:56):
because there's a lot that it'sa legal.
There are a lot of legal thingshappening right now.
A lot of details are notnecessarily pushed to the public
because they can't be.
It's just, it's really complexsituations.
But at the end of the day, I'mnot a lawyer.
I want to put any of thoseconversations aside and I was
just so frustrated that, as apublisher, I didn't have anyone
to talk to at the streamingcompanies and I had these
(12:20):
artists who wanted even just tounderstand how they can help
pitch their songs, if at all, orhow can they be invited to, you
know, songwriting events, andthere wasn't much information.
There wasn't necessarily a teamworking with the creatives at
the publishing companies andthis was kind of across all of
(12:41):
the DSPs.
I think a lot of the songwriterand publishing sort of creative
partnership iterations kind ofpopped up around the same time
and they're all really greatpeople.
It's just there aren't many ofthose people at these companies.
They're a fraction of the sizeof the, you know, artist
(13:02):
partnerships or labelpartnerships.
But I was just happy that Icould be one of them.
I feel like I understood theindustry.
My heart was in the right place.
I wanted to be the cheerleaderinternally.
I wanted to raise my hand incompany wide meetings to say
what about songwriters, or canwe?
Can we plug a writer into thisprogram?
(13:24):
Or can we tell the story of howthe song was written in this
program?
That's great.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
That's really amazing to have had you there to do
that.
I mean, I know I had an artistthat you helped a lot and it
made an amazing difference forher.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, thank you.
Well, it was just really fun.
It was fun.
I felt like I could make adifference and I didn't
necessarily have to ask foranything.
I mean, I would ask for assets,but it was opportunities and
people didn't need to take it.
It wasn't like a leveragingsituation and it was one of the
first times I ever had a rolelike that.
Whereas in A&R, you're tryingto get big rooms, you're trying
(14:04):
to get big sessions, you'retrying to pitch songs, you're
trying to sign and close deals,there's a lot of pressure in a
different way in doing that.
Whereas, yeah, it was a verydifferent kind of role and I
learned a whole lot that I nowam just so happy to take back to
A&R.
I think I'm going to be in amuch better A&R in this new role
(14:25):
now.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Well, and it's a smaller company again, so it's
more agile.
How do you find that kind offlexibility?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, well, being at a small company and Calphonic is
very much trying to be we'rewriter-friendly, we want to do
writer-friendly deals, we wantto be transparent with people
that we intend to work with andthat we are working with.
There's a lot of confusion.
I mean, music publishing is soconfusing the more I learn about
(14:56):
the business and the economicsof it all, which I'm constantly
learning after being in themusic industry for 18 plus years
and I'm also learning thatthere are so many people in the
industry a lot who have been init even longer who don't know a
lot of this, because publishingis so confusing and a lot of it,
(15:17):
in my opinion, doesn't make anysense.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
It used to be a penny business, but I think it's
actually like a, you know, afraction of a penny business now
.
It's a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
It's a lot of work A lot of work and and territories
around the world workdifferently than other
territories and there's thecompanies work different.
Like publishing company topublishing company work very
differently.
I've seen royalty statements onbehalf of writers from various
(15:46):
other publishing companies andsome of it you know you don't
have, you just see a number, youdon't know where it's coming
from, you don't know when itcame.
There's there's so many reasonsas to why that might be the
case, but anyway, at Alkafonikwe're really trying to do what
we can with the information thatwe have to.
(16:07):
You know, build.
We have a tech portal wherepeople can see as much
information as we're able toshare of where their money is
coming from.
In terms of deals, I, justbeing at a small company, I
think we're able to be reallyflexible and meet riders where
where they're at, you know, noteveryone is.
There are people who want bigadvances and long-term
(16:31):
co-publishing deals and thereare people who want low-fee,
flexible-term admin deals thatare relatively short-term, and I
think there's noone-size-fits-all.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
And you're more able to do that at a small company,
you can actually offer thosedifferent kinds of deals.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm surprised.
Every day I have conversationsand honestly I'm surprised by.
There's someone I don't know Imet with recently and I was
going into the meeting expectingthat they were someone who
wants a huge check and along-term co-pub in exchange for
, you know, a long-term co-pub,versus someone like maybe
(17:12):
there's a lot of competition andsome companies are just trying
to outbid each other and at theend of the day, I'm surprised
with how many writers I'mtalking to who understand the
economics of it, now that thosechecks are recoupable and
sometimes you might not want totake that kind of deal and be
locked in.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
It's your money, basically, that they're holding.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Like betting on yourself in the future, and I
honestly I think there are.
That is the right situation attimes for certain people and
it's not for others, and I'mjust.
I guess what I'm saying is I'msurprised with, like I can never
assume, because I'm beingsurprised constantly, every day,
of someone who's who wouldprefer a co-pub versus an admin,
(17:55):
or vice versa.
So, yeah, we have funding, wehave the ability to compete, but
we also don't want to do thatif we don't think it's in the
writer's best interest for wherethey're at in their career, and
vice versa.
So we can be selective andflexible, which is fun, fun for
me.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
And I know we talked about this a little bit You're
really looking for that specialartist right now to sign.
So how do you find your artistsand how do you know when it's
the right thing?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Oh, great question.
Yeah, so because we're a smallcompany too, we don't want to
sign, you know, a hundred thingsthat we can't necessarily.
We don't have the bandwidthright now to service.
So, although we're, we are, asa company, in a position to
scale our staff as we grow.
For me personally, as a singleone single A&R at the company
(18:50):
speaking for myself, single A&Rat the company speaking for
myself, I want to be selective.
Yeah, so I am.
I like to find people.
There's a lot of word of mouth,there's a lot of industry
referrals.
That's great.
I love all of those.
If anyone out there has any,send them my way.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
And of course there's that like analytics and TikTok
and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
There's yes, exactly no, I love, I love organically
finding music and that'ssomething that I'll mention
TikTok briefly, because TikTokbecame, I think, a pretty
important music discovery tool,especially during the time I was
on the streaming side I wasn'tdoing A&R, while that really
(19:37):
became a big music discoverytool and I would think to myself
how fun it would have been tohave TikTok when I was doing A&R
and I thought that because Iwould scroll through and I'm
telling you like every littlescroll session and I had to
limit myself or I would just doit all the time, I would be so
(19:59):
inspired and I would find thingsfrom all over the world that
were just incredible, incredible.
Sometimes I would check and seehow it was doing on streaming
and it wouldn't translatewhatsoever.
Um, I think there's still a lotof people trying to figure out
how to translate TikTok viralityor not even just like any sort
(20:21):
of TikTok follow in off ofTikTok.
Um, if they are wanting to dothat, you know so there, which I
think business-wise that's agood thing to do if you're an
artist or a songwriter.
but yeah, I think there's.
I was just so inspired.
So I still really love to dothat and I do.
(20:44):
And I love being in a positionwhere, like you know what, if we
find something and it is soincredible, not only can we
consider working with them, butI feel so much more confident in
my like, leveraging my networknow where maybe I can be that
person to help them grow andbuild their team and become a
big artist.
Beyond, you know, on thesongwriting side and publishing,
(21:06):
I would I would wouldn'tapproach them if I didn't feel
confident in the value I canprovide them and vice versa.
But beyond that, how can I be,help them grow in their career?
And I just, yeah, it's a, it'sreally inspiring to me.
So I'm, I just have to beselective, and that's hard too,
because there's so manyincredible people I'm finding
and I'm really into right now.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
And I know you.
We also discussed a little bitthe sort of flip side of TikTok,
which is people that areincredibly successful on TikTok
and maybe ultimately don't havethe goods and they get signed
and things don't really work out.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's happening left and right.
I'm seeing it all the time.
I've seen it go full circlewhere there's bidding wars at
the majors and artists aregetting deals and it doesn't
work out for whatever reason.
A lot of them are.
I can count at least a handfuloff the top of my head that are
now out of those deals and intoindependent deals.
(22:02):
I think for me, tiktok I getinspired by what I'm finding on
TikTok, more so when it I thinkit before, before it becomes
super viral.
I think by that time, even ifI'm inspired, I'll go after if
it's something I feel like againwe can add value to.
I'm personally in our companyis really behind it and we we
(22:24):
see a lot of potential.
But it's not for me.
For me right now in this role,it's not a numbers game.
I'm not using TikTok for thenumbers, I'm using it as just an
organic discovery.
In fact, when I can findsomething super early, that to
me is more rewarding for me.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
That's great.
Do you also kind of scour theschools, the Clive Davis that
sort of thing, to look aroundfor talent?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
You know there's great music coming out of
schools.
Clive Davis is.
You know that program does alot with the industry here in
New York and beyond it's I, I'vevolunteered for some some of
their programming and I really Iappreciate it a lot.
(23:11):
I think that, yeah, sure, Ithink there there's certainly a
lot of talent coming out ofmusic schools and notable music
schools.
I think I'm more so.
I'll say I'll find things Ireally like and then I notice
reading up on them I'm like, ohof course, yeah, sure, they go
to Brickley or they go to CliveDavis or they're in the bandier
(23:32):
program.
For me it's not not necessarilythe like it's.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
It's great, but I don't, I don't know you just go
after that because I knowthere's some people that go,
like the, as soon as the kidsstart the first year and they're
scouring this class to see ifthere's anyone that they want to
pick up right away and there'sa bunch of people that have been
signed very early on at theirtime.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, Maybe I should try that, but I I really like I,
especially as I do more withthe some of these programs I
there's incredible talent forsure.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Yeah, I'm just looking at my notes.
I wondered if you could share astory of a project that you
spearheaded and that you'reparticularly proud of.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Oh yeah.
So while I was at Spotify Ithink this is I love this
question because I'm verypassionate about this and it's
probably my most rewarding, therewarding work I've done thus
far, like at a macro level thattouches my day to day, even in
my life now in my role, now atKilphonic.
But while at Spotify, therethey were in the process of
(24:48):
launching the Global EqualProgram, which is a gender
equity program.
Process of launching the GlobalEqual Program, which is a
gender equity program.
It's an always on program toamplify women's voices from
around the world.
And in these earlybrainstorming internal session
meetings about the program,obviously I was like, hey, we
(25:09):
should consider this for writersand producers.
I wasn't the only one.
There was a lot of built-insupport around this idea, of
course, and just when you lookat the stats, it's horrific the
gender inequity across thebusiness.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Yes, that's why we're here today.
That's why we're here Yep.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
So that was equal, that you're talking about.
(25:53):
Yeah, that's right.
Unless you're looking into thecredits or you're coming across
something on socials or a postor other sort of content on
platform, there aren't many waysto kind of draw attention to
the people who made or helpedcreate those songs, specifically
in this case the songwritersand producers.
Oftentimes songwriters areartists and vice vice versa, or
producers, but also not alwaysand very often there are
(26:14):
collaborators.
So when you look at the statsof women in the industry and
there's an equity across theboard artists, songwriters,
producers but the cut from theamount of songwriters and then
less percentage of producers,like an abysmal percent in the
(26:36):
single digits, which has slowly,I think, been improving over
the years.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Very women producers, in other words.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yes, yeah there's a lot more.
Maybe like one percent give ortake, and it's very, very small
give or take and it's it's very,very small, but so it was um
very important.
If we, I thought, if we havethe ability to promote um and
offer visibility to the creatorsbeyond just our female artists,
then that would be amazing.
(27:07):
So we helped launch um, theequal songwriters Program within
the global equal ecosystem, andthat still runs today.
So once a month there is awoman songwriter who kind of
gets visibility through theEqual Program.
(27:28):
And then, as part of the Equalequal program too, I helped
launch a playlist called createdby women, and this playlist
features songs fully written,produced and performed 100% by
women Love that one.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
That was great I know , a number of people have been
on that.
That was great playlist, thankyou.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I mean, yeah, it's got.
I think it's up to 80,000followers, it's it or, last I
checked, give or take.
But we started that organically.
It was kind of like going on inthe background.
It was very difficult to findsongs for that fit those
guidelines, and that was thepoint too.
We would go out to partners and, as we were, you know, there
(28:09):
was press around the playlist aswe would go out to publishing
partners and pro's and tradeorgs around the world, um, kind
of like as a source of infofunnel, so to speak, because we
were a small team and wecouldn't possibly um find these
all on our own, although wetried over time we did.
There's, there was a long, longlist of songs that fit those
(28:31):
guidelines, like that we used asreference lists and then
anytime we heard of another oneor we were flagged, we would put
them in the list for futureconsideration, just anything
that met those guidelines.
But they're very hard to find.
You have to look for them.
And then also, we didn't wantto assume anyone's gender
identity either.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
So we would you know if we were going to feature
someone, we would do some extradue diligence to check that they
do in fact, to the best of ourknowledge, identify as a woman,
complicated times.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
I did know a few people who were on it and I
tried to get some things onthere, but it, you know, just
trying to get everyone to be awoman was a wonderful thing but
sometimes harder to get.
You know like the mixingengineer or the mastering
engineer and there's women doingall those things, but I just
didn't always have the rightcombo.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, which is?
Speaker 4 (29:31):
fine, I'm happy that you were particular.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, thank you.
I mean we would have loved tobe open, but the whole point was
to get people thinking, like,oh, we don't have anything for
this.
Like, oh, we don't, we shouldthink about this as we're
setting up sessions or even justto start the conversation.
And before we launched theplaylist, we did some market
research with publishingpartners and just asked some
(29:55):
general questions and a lot ofthe feedback was just that, like
you know what?
We don't have a lot like this.
That's really a bummer.
We're going to flag this to ourteam.
Maybe we can think about this aswe set up sessions or writing
camps, writing camps but it wasthat that was very important to
(30:16):
me and it kind of led to somein-person networking events that
we did around the world for,specifically, writers and
producers and industry tonetwork in, in hopes that it
would encourage collaboration,more collaboration between women
, more women becoming producersand learning to become producers
.
And then I got to know a lot ofthe advocacy organizations that
(30:40):
are doing incredible work aroundthe gender equity in this
respect.
Like she is the music and girlsmake beats.
There's key change.
There's so many and and I lovethe work that they do and I
think the Everyone, everyone'sheart is in the right place and
while I have this opportunityand platform and I love this
(31:03):
podcast that you've startedbecause it is shining a light on
on these issues I think, yeah,anyone out there who's in a
position to set upcollaborations it doesn't matter
if you're artists or you'reproduced or you know, if your
artist is not is whatever genderidentity they they have.
I think consider Women ornon-binary producers that you
(31:29):
know about they're like for yoursessions.
I think the more, the more thatpeople can see that they're
yeah, people still use the termtrack guy people.
It's I didn't see, I didn't knowI could be a record producer
growing up, like that wasn't inthe cards, it didn't feel in the
(31:50):
cards in the same way that youknow I think there aren't many
women construction workers orpilots or other other
stereotypical sort of genderized.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
I had a woman pilot the other day and it was
actually surprising.
I came up and everyone's going,wow, it's a woman pilot.
You know it's crazy Still inthis day and age.
Everyone was really surprised.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, I think we just we need to support each other
and, um, think about, just thinkabout it.
Even and, by the way, men aregreat too, and other genders are
great too.
Like they are, there areincredibly talented people all
over.
That identifies everything.
But I think it just to helpclose this gender gap, and it
(32:34):
it's not just in the room inthat session.
There's so many effects of whata gender gap can do as it kind
of flows through culture andhistory.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
The next thing I want to talk about.
I guess, perhaps, maybe adviceyou would give independent
artists trying to get noticed byan art.
What would you say is yourstrongest recommendation?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
yeah, I think um network, network, network and
collaborate.
If you're an artist, the morewriters and producers you meet
and you work with and you becomefriends with, even um grow, you
can grow with your peers.
It's a very collaborativebusiness.
Not everyone needs tocollaborate with 10 writers on a
(33:26):
song, but if you have a freeday and even if you don't
necessarily, if you're notworking on a project for
yourself or you're not writingfor a sync brief or whatever it
is, if you're open to it,schedule sessions because you
can.
You'll.
First of all, you'll learn.
You'll learn in the session.
You'll learn from how thatother person works or from their
(33:48):
ideas and vice versa, andyou'll feed off of each other's
collaborative, creative energy.
But you, who knows?
First of all you might becomefriends, or you at least now
have a working relationship, andthen maybe that friend ends up
getting into certain sessionsand they need a third in the
(34:09):
room and then they bring you.
You know there's just, it opensdoors to opportunities and it
is a it's so highlycollaborative and a friendly
business and a social business,and I know not all artists or
creatives are social andoutgoing and want to do that.
So I'm not saying this is foreveryone, but yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
Cause there's some artists who don't collaborate,
and I actually recently wasgoing to work with one and she
said well, I really only workalone and then I bring in a band
and she produces herself, whichis awesome.
But I said, I think you willlearn a lot and it's not
something you have to do forever, but if you do see how other
people work and hear other ideas, there could be something
gained no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Grow your network.
If you put yourself out thereand I yeah I guess that's a
definitely a good piece ofadvice I love to share.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
That's a really good point and we talked a little bit
of how you got into thebusiness and you know, in some
ways it's it's harder now.
I think it's just there's somany people applying for
opportunities.
I had a Grammy U mentee thatwas trying to.
I mean, she's been working insome interesting jobs but it's
(36:00):
very difficult to find anopportunity.
Can you shed any light orsuggestions for anyone who wants
to break in?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, it's true it's hard.
I got very lucky, I think,timing wise, and I want to
believe I was good for the roleand I I nailed the interview and
had the right, you know,internship experience.
But at the end of the day too,there it was, I think.
Very much timing, um, I wouldmy.
(36:33):
I guess my advice would besimilar to as if you are a
writer, producer and artistnetwork and go to industry
events.
Put yourself out there, makeyour ambition known without
being too pushy.
Talk to people who are willingto listen, make friends in the
(36:53):
business.
People are usually pretty cooland fun to hang out with and,
again, it's a social business.
So go to shows.
One thing that I did when I wastrying to build my own kind of
peer network very early in mycareer is I found a local venue
and with a friend of mine, westarted putting on monthly
showcases.
(37:14):
We called them monthlyshowcases and we would just find
bands and artists that we wereinto.
Some of them were local.
Once in a while I would kind ofget a lead through my role.
I think I was a receptionistand or A&R assistant at the time
at Sony and I would just putmyself out there and be like,
(37:34):
hey, I'm putting on a show andwe have an extra slot, Would you
be interested?
But a lot of them were you knowno name things that I thought
the music was great.
Some of them maybe they werelocal and we knew they'd have a
draw because we had targets wehad to hit.
But in putting on these shows,where I had no experience
putting on shows prior, ithelped me build a network of
(37:56):
peers, of of hustly peers likewanting to grow in the industry.
A lot of them were managers ofthe bands.
Um, I am not going to lie thatalmost every day in my job today
, day to day, I this comes up myshows, the shows that I did in
my early 20s and where did youdo those where?
Speaker 4 (38:18):
where were the venues ?
Speaker 2 (38:19):
mostly at arlene's grocery.
Oh yeah, they were called nopulp music nights, um, one of
the first artists we booked forone of our no pulp shows I think
this was at a venue called thenational underground, um, but
then she eventually played, uh,arlene's one of our Arlene shows
, but it was Lana Del Rey, whichwas Lizzie Grant.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
There were a number of artists that are now big,
well-known artists that we endedup booking when they were just
in their early days.
And it's been.
I still know a lot of theirmanagers and it's so amazing to
have watched them grow.
And I feel like this connectioneven though the artists might
not even remember me, we mightnot have that professional
connection, but I feel apersonal connection, like I
(39:07):
remember when they played ourshow and when there were so many
people there for them thatnight, and I remember talking to
the amazing staff.
We loved the staff there.
A lot of them are still workingthere today, but we would kind
of compare like oh, this one youknow they see shows every night
there and they're like wow,this one is really good, they're
(39:28):
going to be really big and it'sjust been amazing too.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
That's great, and who else?
Who else did you also see inthe beginning?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Booked ex-ambassadors .
A handful of times they weregoing by the name Ambassadors.
Then we booked American Authorsunder the name Blue Pages.
We booked Alan Stone, we bookedRachel Platton once.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
So you were in at the beginning.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, I booked the CEO of Killphonic, caleb shreve,
I booked his band and I bookedour head of creative, um,
michael grubbs, who goes by, orused to go by, the name wakey
wakey.
Uh, he was a singer, songwriter, also the show, one know.
But we booked him too.
So I, and now I work for them.
(40:20):
So it's really fun, a reallyfun full circle.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Well, that's cause you just put yourself out there
and you tried something andthings just came together.
So you just gotta you've gottabe brave.
This is a business where you'vegotta be brave.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Yeah, definitely.
Oh, I was to remind one morethat I was just reminded of this
week, but I booked a duo calledBone Adventure and it was Dan
Smyers, who's now in Dan andShay, and Andy Alpert, who is
massive, massive songwriter.
So it was I.
(41:01):
Just I look back and I'm reallyproud of my little younger self
for putting on the show.
Anyway, I'll mention all thatto say just find a hustle, like
start working.
If you don't, if you can't geta job in the industry, start
something, start managing afriend and learning, because
it's all about doing andnetworking and be smart and be
(41:21):
you know, continue trying tolearn and be professional, think
out of the box.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
Think out of the box.
Yeah Cool, that's great.
And also I love that you didthis in New York and as a New
Yorker and you're in New York Ireally want to encourage people
to think about, you know, comingto New York to be a writer or,
you know, a creative, becauseit's still a great place to be.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Definitely, yeah, we're.
There's a community here, forsure, and it's fun to watch it
grow.
And I think, because it's kindof small, smaller than than,
let's say, la or Nashville,where a lot of people in the US
have moved from New York to goto over the past decade or so I
think that there's uniqueopportunities here to work
(42:04):
within this community and likeit's prideful, it feels really
it feels really nice.
I know there's a lot of workhas been done to cultivate this
community and, you know, bringmusic back to New York and I
think it has a ways to go.
But I'm feeling it and as I'mlooking for writers here and my
(42:24):
co-head of A&R named Sid Butleris also based here and we have
an A&R coordinator here we are,yeah, just trying to build a
scene.
Honestly, I don't think a lotof publishers are the go-to for
New York publishing, so it'd bekind of cool to have.
It's great to, you know, maybekeep that in the back of our
(42:46):
minds, yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
Bring it back.
I totally agree.
And I guess, to finish, Iwondered what you think the
future looks like for you.
Or the seismic, a potentialseismic shift in the business in
general over the next fiveyears.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yeah, I mean, everyone will answer this and a
lot of people answer thisquestion in relation to AI, and
there's so much we could diveinto with AI.
It will change the business,for sure.
It will change.
It's going to change the world.
It is right now.
It'll continue to, I think.
(43:27):
In that respect, I hope thatthe industry gets ahead of it
and works with it, versus fightit.
I think we saw with streamingthat it might just happen.
It's probably going to justhappen.
Whether we want it to or not.
It's going to evolve veryquickly.
(43:49):
I think it'll evolve just AI.
When I say evolve, like AI'simpact on music and creation,
whatever that ends up lookinglike beyond what it is today, I
think it will.
You know, there are threats.
There are certainly threats,but if we can figure out ways to
(44:16):
monetize it and use it more astools, I think a lot of people
are saying the same thing.
So, yeah, I I don't know, I'mtrying to be optimistic and I
just hope that we, the industry,we should be fighting when
music is used inappropriately orwhen it's a threat.
We certainly should be, but Ithink I think we should also
find out how to adapt, likeadapt it in the right way where,
(44:40):
if we assume it is going tohappen to some respect, then
let's not be in a position whereI think that, in my opinion,
the industry was fightingstreaming first or digital in
general, for so long.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
Let's try to get ahead of it rather than like
trying to catch up with it.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
I mean, it might be hard to get ahead of it at this
point, but it's here yourselfand, like, read up on all the
(45:20):
theories and read up on, learnabout companies, new companies
that are starting in thesespaces.
I mean, they're popping up leftand right.
Um, also, going back to your,just to like kind of tie this to
the question you asked priorabout how do you get started if
you can't find a role.
It's hard to get a role inmusic.
Um, look at these music techcompanies, because there are so
many of them, or start your ownthere.
There are a lot of ideas on howto um kind of bridge these
(45:43):
worlds and it's it's going torevolutionize everything and
we're it's all started, it'salready started.
It's I don't know.
It makes my head spin.
I don't even know how to talkabout it.
It's wild to think about.
Speaker 4 (45:59):
Yeah, it's, it's, it's.
The future is here.
Well, thank you so much,Michelle.
I want to just ask if there'sanything we didn't bring up that
you feel you wanted to mention,or any question I didn't ask.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Um, great, also great question.
I don't think so.
I think yeah.
I think that nailed it.
If you're in New York I don'tknow go to some of the new.
I'm often at the New Yorkindustry events.
I travel to LA frequently too.
(46:34):
Please feel free to reach outon LinkedIn.
I love connecting with people.
If you have any great writers,I'm always out on LinkedIn.
I love connecting with people.
If you have any great writers,I'm always setting up sessions.
I don't know, I'll do mypersonal plug.
Speaker 4 (46:44):
Yeah, that's great.
I love that.
Well.
Thank you so much, Michelle,and I look forward to seeing you
at one of those events in NewYork.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah, thank you so much, Sarah.
I really really appreciate this, and best of luck as you
continue to grow your podcast.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
All right, thanks so much, bye.
All right.
Bye-bye.
I'd like to thank today'ssponsor, herd City, the premier
audio post-production companyservicing the advertising,
motion picture and televisionindustries right here in NYC.
I'd also like to thank Antelloaka XOANN for singing the she
(47:18):
Creates Noise theme that I see.
I'd also like to thank Antelloaka XOANN for singing the she
Creates Noise theme that I wrote.
Thanks for listening to sheCreates Noise.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe, rate and
share.
I want to thank the team hereBlair Reinly, jelena Stavanovich
, emily Wilson and the Master ofEngineering and Grammy-winning
Cooper Anderson.
We'll see you next time we hearher voice, she creates noise.
She creates noise.
She creates noise.
She's moving through the worldwith a powerful voice.
She creates noise.
She creates noise, she createsnoise.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Hi, you're listening to Sarah Nagourney and welcome
to.
She Creates Noise, a newpodcast spotlighting women who
power the music industry, comingto you from New York City.
Now, if you don't know me yet,here's a little background.
I'm a songwriter, producer,manager, educator and mentor.
I've written platinum sellingsongs, had tracks on Grammy
nominated educator and mentor.
I've written platinum-sellingsongs, had tracks on
Grammy-nominated records andreleased music on both major and
independent labels.
I've been a jazz singer, ajingle singer, toured with big
(00:54):
bands and became a pop artist,and I've performed at festivals
across the US, europe and Asia.
These days, I focus on writingwith and developing young talent
.
In the coming weeks, I'll bepulling back the curtain on the
music industry's femalechangemakers.
Some are close friends, othersI'm just getting to know, but
(01:15):
all have reshaped the businessin profound ways.
My goal here is to helplisteners better understand how
the music business really worksand just how instrumental women
behind the scenes have been.
You'll hear from both sides ofthe desk artists, producers,
managers, label executives,lawyers.
Women making things happen,often without the spotlight on
(01:39):
them.
Thank you for joining me onthis journey.
Now let's dive in.
Today's guest, michelle Fantis,is a music business professional
with 20 years of experienceacross music publishing,
distribution and streaming.
She's currently the co-head ofA&R at Kilphonic Rights, a
global music publishing companyand record label.
Now, what makes her backgroundparticularly unique is her deep
(02:02):
experience working withsongwriters in artist
development and music publishing, combined with significant time
spent on the tech side.
She's worked at Concord Music,sony Music, spotify and 1RPM in
A&R, further solidifying herreputation for identifying and
supporting talent in innovativeways.
In this podcast, we'll talk toher about while at Spotify,
(02:26):
michelle spearheaded thegroundbreaking playlist Equal,
as well as Created by Women,highlighting her commitment to
elevating underrepresentedvoices in music.
Her work in artist relationsand publishing has helped many
artists navigate theirrelationship within the industry
.
Now, for those listeners whodon't know much about music
publishing, it's critical forsongwriters and artists to have
(02:48):
a publisher on their side,collecting the royalties as well
as advising them and setting upcollaborations with other
artists and other songwriters.
In the podcast, michelle willtalk about how, while just
getting started at Sony, shecreated a monthly showcase,
finding talent to perform in NewYork City and presenting that
new talent at the no Pulp showat the famous Arlene's Grocery.
(03:12):
Now what's really amazing is,while she was really just
getting started, she had LanaDel Rey, ex-ambassadors,
american Authors Rachel Platten,wakey, wakey and Dan and Shay
at those showcases, which isreally impressive, and she's
still friendly with some ofthese artists.
I'm especially grateful toMichelle here today because not
only all of her extensiveindustry knowledge and
(03:34):
experience, but she's been a keypresence on many, many industry
panels, and she's not just apanelist, she's frequently the
one leading the conversation.
Michelle, thank you so much forbeing here.
Hi, sarah, thank you so muchfor having me here.
It's great to have you Now.
I've known you, I think, forlike 10 years, I'm imagining I
(03:57):
knew you when you were atConcord and then when you were
at 1RPM and Spotify, and you'vealways been incredibly helpful.
Thank you so much.
With all of my people I wasworking with and with your
advice and introductions, andyou're a very generous person.
We've also been a host of someterrific panels Dig-A-Log Days,
(04:17):
south by Southwest, antisocial,going Global, to name a few and
I really think that's a toughjob and I take my hat off to you
because it's hard to handlepeople and egos and, if
conversations go wacky, to keepeverything running smoothly.
So it's especially nice to haveyou here, because I'm a little
new at this side of the desk.
(04:37):
So thank you for being here andbeing willing to be my very
first guest.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I am honored truly, very, very happy to be a part of
this.
Thank you so much, and I lovethat you've started this podcast
.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Yeah, I just think there's a lot of interesting
women out there and I want tokind of raise their profile and
make sure that people know howmuch people that, like yourself,
have trailblazed for otherwomen.
Also, I was interested in howyou kind of got into this crazy
business, because it is not atypical choice.
I know my parents were not sohappy that I chose to be in it,
(05:12):
so how was that whole thing foryou?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, well, I was living in New York during
college, I went to PaceUniversity and I had interned at
Sirius prior to being SiriusXMand I was.
They randomly assign you todifferent shows.
The interns are just kind ofrandomly assigned.
I was assigned to a Cosmo radioshow.
It was a late night datingrelationship sort of call-in
(05:38):
show, and I found it really funto be in an environment that
celebrated individuality.
Each room, each studio had itsown personality.
The Cosmo room was pink and wewere next to some sports room
that had you know little minibasketball hoops and people were
wearing jeans and had tattoosand I just really loved being
(06:02):
surrounded by creative people.
And I was always a music fan andI'm in New York.
So I was thinking what would bea really great music company to
work for and I ended upapplying for the only
entry-level music-related job onSonycom, which was Sony Corp of
(06:22):
America's website.
The only music-related job wasSony ATV Music Publishing and it
was a receptionist position.
So I studied up on musicpublishing.
I'm like, oh, this soundsreally interesting.
They have the Lennon andMcCartney catalog and it seems
like a growing company.
And I nailed the interview, Igot the role and then I was in
(06:44):
the building.
So I guess that's how Ioriginally got my start into
music publishing and then justalways saw the A&R people come
in a little bit late, comingfrom a show the night before
taking all these meetings.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
I want that job.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Real loud.
Yeah, I was like, is that notthe coolest job in the world?
So I realized that's what Iwant to do and I set out to
hopefully try to do it.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
That's great and you've had some other great
positions you worked at otherthan Sony, concord, songwriting
and publishing relations atSpotify, and now you've returned
to publishing at Kelphonic.
How has that transition been?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah.
So I mean, at Sony I had grown,I think I left as director of
A&R in 2014.
And then, as you mentioned, Iwent indie and then indie
company was acquired by amidsize publishing company.
I realized then I thought,career-wise, experience-wise, it
would be useful for me to pivotand kind of diversify my skills
(07:50):
and my network.
I had only ever done musicpublishing and it started to
kind of scare me like what wouldbe next if I did lose my job.
So I pivoted in a year indistro at 1 RPM and then, as you
mentioned, on the streamingside.
On the streaming side I wasworking across music publishing,
working with publishers aroundthe world and the songwriting
(08:11):
community, trying to create newopportunities to offer them
visibility and tools, productsfor music publishers so they
could see their analytics Thingsthat I never had in publishing.
That I always wanted.
As often someone who's an earlymember of an artist, who is a
writer team or a writer whomaybe has cuts with artists
(08:35):
coming out and that song beingsuccessful is their success and
that is our success.
So I still I had such abusiness interest, obviously, in
these projects that I wantedopportunities at streaming
companies that didn't exist formusic publishers.
So I really set out to developthose.
But while there I'm workingwith publishers around the world
(08:58):
, I think I have a really niceperspective, or a useful
perspective, on how the variouspublishers were set up, how they
work, how they are proactive,with opportunities, at least in
the way of DSP opportunities.
Coming back into A&R, I was abit nervous Would I still be
(09:18):
good at this?
Can I still go to shows late atnight as a mom and an older?
Now Very useful, thank you.
I still love going to shows.
I found I can handle that, soI'm grateful for that.
But waking up the next morningor getting woken up, I'm sorry,
at six.
(09:38):
Of course that's the hard part,but I still.
I realize I love it and I'm sohappy to be back.
I really missed being able toset up collaborations between
writers and artists and I reallyever be a songwriter or a
producer.
I understand the business.
(10:08):
I'm a relationships person.
I really love making thoseconnections and I love being
kind of the business mind tocomplement the creatives I work
with.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Yeah, I mean, it's a skill to hear a great song and
understand that it's great andidentify talent.
So that's a really importantskill and it sounds like the
Spotify job was a great hybridof your skills.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, it was wonderful.
I felt like there I was able tomake a difference.
I feel like you know it's nosurprise.
I think there's a lot of angstfrom the publishing and
songwriting community towardsmusic streaming companies and
music tech world in general.
That's a whole can of wormswith so many complex issues
(10:53):
surrounding it that we don'tnecessarily need to get into In
the interest of time.
I love to get into it if anyoneever wants to talk.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
I guess one thing is like something like Amazon does
pay better, but it's got so manyother strings to its bow that
it can afford to pay better,right?
Spotify kind of just does thatthing.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, well, there's yeah, there's a lot of nuances
to it.
I was so happy to take thatrole at Spotify because I wanted
to be an advocate for thisworld that I came from.
That I felt was missing.
So I started there in 2020,just prior to COVID, and at the
(11:35):
time, and still now, especiallynow, I think there's a lot of
negative sentiment, negativesentiment, and I really it's one
thing to to I think understand,or think you understand even,
(11:56):
because there's a lot that it'sa legal.
There are a lot of legal thingshappening right now.
A lot of details are notnecessarily pushed to the public
because they can't be.
It's just, it's really complexsituations.
But at the end of the day, I'mnot a lawyer.
I want to put any of thoseconversations aside and I was
just so frustrated that, as apublisher, I didn't have anyone
to talk to at the streamingcompanies and I had these
(12:20):
artists who wanted even just tounderstand how they can help
pitch their songs, if at all, orhow can they be invited to, you
know, songwriting events, andthere wasn't much information.
There wasn't necessarily a teamworking with the creatives at
the publishing companies andthis was kind of across all of
(12:41):
the DSPs.
I think a lot of the songwriterand publishing sort of creative
partnership iterations kind ofpopped up around the same time
and they're all really greatpeople.
It's just there aren't many ofthose people at these companies.
They're a fraction of the sizeof the, you know, artist
(13:02):
partnerships or labelpartnerships.
But I was just happy that Icould be one of them.
I feel like I understood theindustry.
My heart was in the right place.
I wanted to be the cheerleaderinternally.
I wanted to raise my hand incompany wide meetings to say
what about songwriters, or canwe?
Can we plug a writer into thisprogram?
(13:24):
Or can we tell the story of howthe song was written in this
program?
That's great.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
That's really amazing to have had you there to do
that.
I mean, I know I had an artistthat you helped a lot and it
made an amazing difference forher.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, thank you.
Well, it was just really fun.
It was fun.
I felt like I could make adifference and I didn't
necessarily have to ask foranything.
I mean, I would ask for assets,but it was opportunities and
people didn't need to take it.
It wasn't like a leveragingsituation and it was one of the
first times I ever had a rolelike that.
Whereas in A&R, you're tryingto get big rooms, you're trying
(14:04):
to get big sessions, you'retrying to pitch songs, you're
trying to sign and close deals,there's a lot of pressure in a
different way in doing that.
Whereas, yeah, it was a verydifferent kind of role and I
learned a whole lot that I nowam just so happy to take back to
A&R.
I think I'm going to be in amuch better A&R in this new role
(14:25):
now.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Well, and it's a smaller company again, so it's
more agile.
How do you find that kind offlexibility?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, well, being at a small company and Calphonic is
very much trying to be we'rewriter-friendly, we want to do
writer-friendly deals, we wantto be transparent with people
that we intend to work with andthat we are working with.
There's a lot of confusion.
I mean, music publishing is soconfusing the more I learn about
(14:56):
the business and the economicsof it all, which I'm constantly
learning after being in themusic industry for 18 plus years
and I'm also learning thatthere are so many people in the
industry a lot who have been init even longer who don't know a
lot of this, because publishingis so confusing and a lot of it,
(15:17):
in my opinion, doesn't make anysense.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
It used to be a penny business, but I think it's
actually like a, you know, afraction of a penny business now
.
It's a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
It's a lot of work A lot of work and and territories
around the world workdifferently than other
territories and there's thecompanies work different.
Like publishing company topublishing company work very
differently.
I've seen royalty statements onbehalf of writers from various
(15:46):
other publishing companies andsome of it you know you don't
have, you just see a number, youdon't know where it's coming
from, you don't know when itcame.
There's there's so many reasonsas to why that might be the
case, but anyway, at Alkafonikwe're really trying to do what
we can with the information thatwe have to.
(16:07):
You know, build.
We have a tech portal wherepeople can see as much
information as we're able toshare of where their money is
coming from.
In terms of deals, I, justbeing at a small company, I
think we're able to be reallyflexible and meet riders where
where they're at, you know, noteveryone is.
There are people who want bigadvances and long-term
(16:31):
co-publishing deals and thereare people who want low-fee,
flexible-term admin deals thatare relatively short-term, and I
think there's noone-size-fits-all.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
And you're more able to do that at a small company,
you can actually offer thosedifferent kinds of deals.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm surprised.
Every day I have conversationsand honestly I'm surprised by.
There's someone I don't know Imet with recently and I was
going into the meeting expectingthat they were someone who
wants a huge check and along-term co-pub in exchange for
, you know, a long-term co-pub,versus someone like maybe
(17:12):
there's a lot of competition andsome companies are just trying
to outbid each other and at theend of the day, I'm surprised
with how many writers I'mtalking to who understand the
economics of it, now that thosechecks are recoupable and
sometimes you might not want totake that kind of deal and be
locked in.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
It's your money, basically, that they're holding.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Like betting on yourself in the future, and I
honestly I think there are.
That is the right situation attimes for certain people and
it's not for others, and I'mjust.
I guess what I'm saying is I'msurprised with, like I can never
assume, because I'm beingsurprised constantly, every day,
of someone who's who wouldprefer a co-pub versus an admin,
(17:55):
or vice versa.
So, yeah, we have funding, wehave the ability to compete, but
we also don't want to do thatif we don't think it's in the
writer's best interest for wherethey're at in their career, and
vice versa.
So we can be selective andflexible, which is fun, fun for
me.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
And I know we talked about this a little bit You're
really looking for that specialartist right now to sign.
So how do you find your artistsand how do you know when it's
the right thing?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Oh, great question.
Yeah, so because we're a smallcompany too, we don't want to
sign, you know, a hundred thingsthat we can't necessarily.
We don't have the bandwidthright now to service.
So, although we're, we are, asa company, in a position to
scale our staff as we grow.
For me personally, as a singleone single A&R at the company
(18:50):
speaking for myself, single A&Rat the company speaking for
myself, I want to be selective.
Yeah, so I am.
I like to find people.
There's a lot of word of mouth,there's a lot of industry
referrals.
That's great.
I love all of those.
If anyone out there has any,send them my way.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
And of course there's that like analytics and TikTok
and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
There's yes, exactly no, I love, I love organically
finding music and that'ssomething that I'll mention
TikTok briefly, because TikTokbecame, I think, a pretty
important music discovery tool,especially during the time I was
on the streaming side I wasn'tdoing A&R, while that really
(19:37):
became a big music discoverytool and I would think to myself
how fun it would have been tohave TikTok when I was doing A&R
and I thought that because Iwould scroll through and I'm
telling you like every littlescroll session and I had to
limit myself or I would just doit all the time, I would be so
(19:59):
inspired and I would find thingsfrom all over the world that
were just incredible, incredible.
Sometimes I would check and seehow it was doing on streaming
and it wouldn't translatewhatsoever.
Um, I think there's still a lotof people trying to figure out
how to translate TikTok viralityor not even just like any sort
(20:21):
of TikTok follow in off ofTikTok.
Um, if they are wanting to dothat, you know so there, which I
think business-wise that's agood thing to do if you're an
artist or a songwriter.
but yeah, I think there's.
I was just so inspired.
So I still really love to dothat and I do.
(20:44):
And I love being in a positionwhere, like you know what, if we
find something and it is soincredible, not only can we
consider working with them, butI feel so much more confident in
my like, leveraging my networknow where maybe I can be that
person to help them grow andbuild their team and become a
big artist.
Beyond, you know, on thesongwriting side and publishing,
(21:06):
I would I would wouldn'tapproach them if I didn't feel
confident in the value I canprovide them and vice versa.
But beyond that, how can I be,help them grow in their career?
And I just, yeah, it's a, it'sreally inspiring to me.
So I'm, I just have to beselective, and that's hard too,
because there's so manyincredible people I'm finding
and I'm really into right now.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
And I know you.
We also discussed a little bitthe sort of flip side of TikTok,
which is people that areincredibly successful on TikTok
and maybe ultimately don't havethe goods and they get signed
and things don't really work out.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's happening left and right.
I'm seeing it all the time.
I've seen it go full circlewhere there's bidding wars at
the majors and artists aregetting deals and it doesn't
work out for whatever reason.
A lot of them are.
I can count at least a handfuloff the top of my head that are
now out of those deals and intoindependent deals.
(22:02):
I think for me, tiktok I getinspired by what I'm finding on
TikTok, more so when it I thinkit before, before it becomes
super viral.
I think by that time, even ifI'm inspired, I'll go after if
it's something I feel like againwe can add value to.
I'm personally in our companyis really behind it and we we
(22:24):
see a lot of potential.
But it's not for me.
For me right now in this role,it's not a numbers game.
I'm not using TikTok for thenumbers, I'm using it as just an
organic discovery.
In fact, when I can findsomething super early, that to
me is more rewarding for me.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
That's great.
Do you also kind of scour theschools, the Clive Davis that
sort of thing, to look aroundfor talent?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
You know there's great music coming out of
schools.
Clive Davis is.
You know that program does alot with the industry here in
New York and beyond it's I, I'vevolunteered for some some of
their programming and I really Iappreciate it a lot.
(23:11):
I think that, yeah, sure, Ithink there there's certainly a
lot of talent coming out ofmusic schools and notable music
schools.
I think I'm more so.
I'll say I'll find things Ireally like and then I notice
reading up on them I'm like, ohof course, yeah, sure, they go
to Brickley or they go to CliveDavis or they're in the bandier
(23:32):
program.
For me it's not not necessarilythe like it's.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
It's great, but I don't, I don't know you just go
after that because I knowthere's some people that go,
like the, as soon as the kidsstart the first year and they're
scouring this class to see ifthere's anyone that they want to
pick up right away and there'sa bunch of people that have been
signed very early on at theirtime.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, Maybe I should try that, but I I really like I,
especially as I do more withthe some of these programs I
there's incredible talent forsure.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Yeah, I'm just looking at my notes.
I wondered if you could share astory of a project that you
spearheaded and that you'reparticularly proud of.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Oh yeah.
So while I was at Spotify Ithink this is I love this
question because I'm verypassionate about this and it's
probably my most rewarding, therewarding work I've done thus
far, like at a macro level thattouches my day to day, even in
my life now in my role, now atKilphonic.
But while at Spotify, therethey were in the process of
(24:48):
launching the Global EqualProgram, which is a gender
equity program.
Process of launching the GlobalEqual Program, which is a
gender equity program.
It's an always on program toamplify women's voices from
around the world.
And in these earlybrainstorming internal session
meetings about the program,obviously I was like, hey, we
(25:09):
should consider this for writersand producers.
I wasn't the only one.
There was a lot of built-insupport around this idea, of
course, and just when you lookat the stats, it's horrific the
gender inequity across thebusiness.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Yes, that's why we're here today.
That's why we're here Yep.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
So that was equal, that you're talking about.
(25:53):
Yeah, that's right.
Unless you're looking into thecredits or you're coming across
something on socials or a postor other sort of content on
platform, there aren't many waysto kind of draw attention to
the people who made or helpedcreate those songs, specifically
in this case the songwritersand producers.
Oftentimes songwriters areartists and vice vice versa, or
producers, but also not alwaysand very often there are
(26:14):
collaborators.
So when you look at the statsof women in the industry and
there's an equity across theboard artists, songwriters,
producers but the cut from theamount of songwriters and then
less percentage of producers,like an abysmal percent in the
(26:36):
single digits, which has slowly,I think, been improving over
the years.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Very women producers, in other words.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yes, yeah there's a lot more.
Maybe like one percent give ortake, and it's very, very small
give or take and it's it's very,very small, but so it was um
very important.
If we, I thought, if we havethe ability to promote um and
offer visibility to the creatorsbeyond just our female artists,
then that would be amazing.
(27:07):
So we helped launch um, theequal songwriters Program within
the global equal ecosystem, andthat still runs today.
So once a month there is awoman songwriter who kind of
gets visibility through theEqual Program.
(27:28):
And then, as part of the Equalequal program too, I helped
launch a playlist called createdby women, and this playlist
features songs fully written,produced and performed 100% by
women Love that one.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
That was great I know , a number of people have been
on that.
That was great playlist, thankyou.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I mean, yeah, it's got.
I think it's up to 80,000followers, it's it or, last I
checked, give or take.
But we started that organically.
It was kind of like going on inthe background.
It was very difficult to findsongs for that fit those
guidelines, and that was thepoint too.
We would go out to partners and, as we were, you know, there
(28:09):
was press around the playlist aswe would go out to publishing
partners and pro's and tradeorgs around the world, um, kind
of like as a source of infofunnel, so to speak, because we
were a small team and wecouldn't possibly um find these
all on our own, although wetried over time we did.
There's, there was a long, longlist of songs that fit those
(28:31):
guidelines, like that we used asreference lists and then
anytime we heard of another oneor we were flagged, we would put
them in the list for futureconsideration, just anything
that met those guidelines.
But they're very hard to find.
You have to look for them.
And then also, we didn't wantto assume anyone's gender
identity either.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
So we would you know if we were going to feature
someone, we would do some extradue diligence to check that they
do in fact, to the best of ourknowledge, identify as a woman,
complicated times.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
I did know a few people who were on it and I
tried to get some things onthere, but it, you know, just
trying to get everyone to be awoman was a wonderful thing but
sometimes harder to get.
You know like the mixingengineer or the mastering
engineer and there's women doingall those things, but I just
didn't always have the rightcombo.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, which is?
Speaker 4 (29:31):
fine, I'm happy that you were particular.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, thank you.
I mean we would have loved tobe open, but the whole point was
to get people thinking, like,oh, we don't have anything for
this.
Like, oh, we don't, we shouldthink about this as we're
setting up sessions or even justto start the conversation.
And before we launched theplaylist, we did some market
research with publishingpartners and just asked some
(29:55):
general questions and a lot ofthe feedback was just that, like
you know what?
We don't have a lot like this.
That's really a bummer.
We're going to flag this to ourteam.
Maybe we can think about this aswe set up sessions or writing
camps, writing camps but it wasthat that was very important to
(30:16):
me and it kind of led to somein-person networking events that
we did around the world for,specifically, writers and
producers and industry tonetwork in, in hopes that it
would encourage collaboration,more collaboration between women
, more women becoming producersand learning to become producers
.
And then I got to know a lot ofthe advocacy organizations that
(30:40):
are doing incredible work aroundthe gender equity in this
respect.
Like she is the music and girlsmake beats.
There's key change.
There's so many and and I lovethe work that they do and I
think the Everyone, everyone'sheart is in the right place and
while I have this opportunityand platform and I love this
(31:03):
podcast that you've startedbecause it is shining a light on
on these issues I think, yeah,anyone out there who's in a
position to set upcollaborations it doesn't matter
if you're artists or you'reproduced or you know, if your
artist is not is whatever genderidentity they they have.
I think consider Women ornon-binary producers that you
(31:29):
know about they're like for yoursessions.
I think the more, the more thatpeople can see that they're
yeah, people still use the termtrack guy people.
It's I didn't see, I didn't knowI could be a record producer
growing up, like that wasn't inthe cards, it didn't feel in the
(31:50):
cards in the same way that youknow I think there aren't many
women construction workers orpilots or other other
stereotypical sort of genderized.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
I had a woman pilot the other day and it was
actually surprising.
I came up and everyone's going,wow, it's a woman pilot.
You know it's crazy Still inthis day and age.
Everyone was really surprised.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, I think we just we need to support each other
and, um, think about, just thinkabout it.
Even and, by the way, men aregreat too, and other genders are
great too.
Like they are, there areincredibly talented people all
over.
That identifies everything.
But I think it just to helpclose this gender gap, and it
(32:34):
it's not just in the room inthat session.
There's so many effects of whata gender gap can do as it kind
of flows through culture andhistory.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
The next thing I want to talk about.
I guess, perhaps, maybe adviceyou would give independent
artists trying to get noticed byan art.
What would you say is yourstrongest recommendation?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
yeah, I think um network, network, network and
collaborate.
If you're an artist, the morewriters and producers you meet
and you work with and you becomefriends with, even um grow, you
can grow with your peers.
It's a very collaborativebusiness.
Not everyone needs tocollaborate with 10 writers on a
(33:26):
song, but if you have a freeday and even if you don't
necessarily, if you're notworking on a project for
yourself or you're not writingfor a sync brief or whatever it
is, if you're open to it,schedule sessions because you
can.
You'll.
First of all, you'll learn.
You'll learn in the session.
You'll learn from how thatother person works or from their
(33:48):
ideas and vice versa, andyou'll feed off of each other's
collaborative, creative energy.
But you, who knows?
First of all you might becomefriends, or you at least now
have a working relationship, andthen maybe that friend ends up
getting into certain sessionsand they need a third in the
(34:09):
room and then they bring you.
You know there's just, it opensdoors to opportunities and it
is a it's so highlycollaborative and a friendly
business and a social business,and I know not all artists or
creatives are social andoutgoing and want to do that.
So I'm not saying this is foreveryone, but yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
Cause there's some artists who don't collaborate,
and I actually recently wasgoing to work with one and she
said well, I really only workalone and then I bring in a band
and she produces herself, whichis awesome.
But I said, I think you willlearn a lot and it's not
something you have to do forever, but if you do see how other
people work and hear other ideas, there could be something
gained no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Grow your network.
If you put yourself out thereand I yeah I guess that's a
definitely a good piece ofadvice I love to share.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
That's a really good point and we talked a little bit
of how you got into thebusiness and you know, in some
ways it's it's harder now.
I think it's just there's somany people applying for
opportunities.
I had a Grammy U mentee thatwas trying to.
I mean, she's been working insome interesting jobs but it's
(36:00):
very difficult to find anopportunity.
Can you shed any light orsuggestions for anyone who wants
to break in?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, it's true it's hard.
I got very lucky, I think,timing wise, and I want to
believe I was good for the roleand I I nailed the interview and
had the right, you know,internship experience.
But at the end of the day too,there it was, I think.
Very much timing, um, I wouldmy.
(36:33):
I guess my advice would besimilar to as if you are a
writer, producer and artistnetwork and go to industry
events.
Put yourself out there, makeyour ambition known without
being too pushy.
Talk to people who are willingto listen, make friends in the
(36:53):
business.
People are usually pretty cooland fun to hang out with and,
again, it's a social business.
So go to shows.
One thing that I did when I wastrying to build my own kind of
peer network very early in mycareer is I found a local venue
and with a friend of mine, westarted putting on monthly
showcases.
(37:14):
We called them monthlyshowcases and we would just find
bands and artists that we wereinto.
Some of them were local.
Once in a while I would kind ofget a lead through my role.
I think I was a receptionistand or A&R assistant at the time
at Sony and I would just putmyself out there and be like,
(37:34):
hey, I'm putting on a show andwe have an extra slot, Would you
be interested?
But a lot of them were you knowno name things that I thought
the music was great.
Some of them maybe they werelocal and we knew they'd have a
draw because we had targets wehad to hit.
But in putting on these shows,where I had no experience
putting on shows prior, ithelped me build a network of
(37:56):
peers, of of hustly peers likewanting to grow in the industry.
A lot of them were managers ofthe bands.
Um, I am not going to lie thatalmost every day in my job today
, day to day, I this comes up myshows, the shows that I did in
my early 20s and where did youdo those where?
Speaker 4 (38:18):
where were the venues ?
Speaker 2 (38:19):
mostly at arlene's grocery.
Oh yeah, they were called nopulp music nights, um, one of
the first artists we booked forone of our no pulp shows I think
this was at a venue called thenational underground, um, but
then she eventually played, uh,arlene's one of our Arlene shows
, but it was Lana Del Rey, whichwas Lizzie Grant.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
There were a number of artists that are now big,
well-known artists that we endedup booking when they were just
in their early days.
And it's been.
I still know a lot of theirmanagers and it's so amazing to
have watched them grow.
And I feel like this connectioneven though the artists might
not even remember me, we mightnot have that professional
connection, but I feel apersonal connection, like I
(39:07):
remember when they played ourshow and when there were so many
people there for them thatnight, and I remember talking to
the amazing staff.
We loved the staff there.
A lot of them are still workingthere today, but we would kind
of compare like oh, this one youknow they see shows every night
there and they're like wow,this one is really good, they're
(39:28):
going to be really big and it'sjust been amazing too.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
That's great, and who else?
Who else did you also see inthe beginning?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Booked ex-ambassadors .
A handful of times they weregoing by the name Ambassadors.
Then we booked American Authorsunder the name Blue Pages.
We booked Alan Stone, we bookedRachel Platton once.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
So you were in at the beginning.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, I booked the CEO of Killphonic, caleb shreve,
I booked his band and I bookedour head of creative, um,
michael grubbs, who goes by, orused to go by, the name wakey
wakey.
Uh, he was a singer, songwriter, also the show, one know.
But we booked him too.
So I, and now I work for them.
(40:20):
So it's really fun, a reallyfun full circle.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Well, that's cause you just put yourself out there
and you tried something andthings just came together.
So you just gotta you've gottabe brave.
This is a business where you'vegotta be brave.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Yeah, definitely.
Oh, I was to remind one morethat I was just reminded of this
week, but I booked a duo calledBone Adventure and it was Dan
Smyers, who's now in Dan andShay, and Andy Alpert, who is
massive, massive songwriter.
So it was I.
(41:01):
Just I look back and I'm reallyproud of my little younger self
for putting on the show.
Anyway, I'll mention all thatto say just find a hustle, like
start working.
If you don't, if you can't geta job in the industry, start
something, start managing afriend and learning, because
it's all about doing andnetworking and be smart and be
(41:21):
you know, continue trying tolearn and be professional, think
out of the box.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
Think out of the box.
Yeah Cool, that's great.
And also I love that you didthis in New York and as a New
Yorker and you're in New York Ireally want to encourage people
to think about, you know, comingto New York to be a writer or,
you know, a creative, becauseit's still a great place to be.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Definitely, yeah, we're.
There's a community here, forsure, and it's fun to watch it
grow.
And I think, because it's kindof small, smaller than than,
let's say, la or Nashville,where a lot of people in the US
have moved from New York to goto over the past decade or so I
think that there's uniqueopportunities here to work
(42:04):
within this community and likeit's prideful, it feels really
it feels really nice.
I know there's a lot of workhas been done to cultivate this
community and, you know, bringmusic back to New York and I
think it has a ways to go.
But I'm feeling it and as I'mlooking for writers here and my
(42:24):
co-head of A&R named Sid Butleris also based here and we have
an A&R coordinator here we are,yeah, just trying to build a
scene.
Honestly, I don't think a lotof publishers are the go-to for
New York publishing, so it'd bekind of cool to have.
It's great to, you know, maybekeep that in the back of our
(42:46):
minds, yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
Bring it back.
I totally agree.
And I guess, to finish, Iwondered what you think the
future looks like for you.
Or the seismic, a potentialseismic shift in the business in
general over the next fiveyears.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yeah, I mean, everyone will answer this and a
lot of people answer thisquestion in relation to AI, and
there's so much we could diveinto with AI.
It will change the business,for sure.
It will change.
It's going to change the world.
It is right now.
It'll continue to, I think.
(43:27):
In that respect, I hope thatthe industry gets ahead of it
and works with it, versus fightit.
I think we saw with streamingthat it might just happen.
It's probably going to justhappen.
Whether we want it to or not.
It's going to evolve veryquickly.
(43:49):
I think it'll evolve just AI.
When I say evolve, like AI'simpact on music and creation,
whatever that ends up lookinglike beyond what it is today, I
think it will.
You know, there are threats.
There are certainly threats,but if we can figure out ways to
(44:16):
monetize it and use it more astools, I think a lot of people
are saying the same thing.
So, yeah, I I don't know, I'mtrying to be optimistic and I
just hope that we, the industry,we should be fighting when
music is used inappropriately orwhen it's a threat.
We certainly should be, but Ithink I think we should also
find out how to adapt, likeadapt it in the right way where,
(44:40):
if we assume it is going tohappen to some respect, then
let's not be in a position whereI think that, in my opinion,
the industry was fightingstreaming first or digital in
general, for so long.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
Let's try to get ahead of it rather than like
trying to catch up with it.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
I mean, it might be hard to get ahead of it at this
point, but it's here yourselfand, like, read up on all the
(45:20):
theories and read up on, learnabout companies, new companies
that are starting in thesespaces.
I mean, they're popping up leftand right.
Um, also, going back to your,just to like kind of tie this to
the question you asked priorabout how do you get started if
you can't find a role.
It's hard to get a role inmusic.
Um, look at these music techcompanies, because there are so
many of them, or start your ownthere.
There are a lot of ideas on howto um kind of bridge these
(45:43):
worlds and it's it's going torevolutionize everything and
we're it's all started, it'salready started.
It's I don't know.
It makes my head spin.
I don't even know how to talkabout it.
It's wild to think about.
Speaker 4 (45:59):
Yeah, it's, it's, it's.
The future is here.
Well, thank you so much,Michelle.
I want to just ask if there'sanything we didn't bring up that
you feel you wanted to mention,or any question I didn't ask.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Um, great, also great question.
I don't think so.
I think yeah.
I think that nailed it.
If you're in New York I don'tknow go to some of the new.
I'm often at the New Yorkindustry events.
I travel to LA frequently too.
(46:34):
Please feel free to reach outon LinkedIn.
I love connecting with people.
If you have any great writers,I'm always out on LinkedIn.
I love connecting with people.
If you have any great writers,I'm always setting up sessions.
I don't know, I'll do mypersonal plug.
Speaker 4 (46:44):
Yeah, that's great.
I love that.
Well.
Thank you so much, Michelle,and I look forward to seeing you
at one of those events in NewYork.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah, thank you so much, Sarah.
I really really appreciate this, and best of luck as you
continue to grow your podcast.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
All right, thanks so much, bye.
All right.
Bye-bye.
I'd like to thank today'ssponsor, herd City, the premier
audio post-production companyservicing the advertising,
motion picture and televisionindustries right here in NYC.
I'd also like to thank Antelloaka XOANN for singing the she
(47:18):
Creates Noise theme that I see.
I'd also like to thank Antelloaka XOANN for singing the she
Creates Noise theme that I wrote.
Thanks for listening to sheCreates Noise.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe, rate and
share.
I want to thank the team hereBlair Reinly, jelena Stavanovich
, emily Wilson and the Master ofEngineering and Grammy-winning
Cooper Anderson.
We'll see you next time we hearher voice, she creates noise.
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