August 12, 2025 • 48 mins
Sharon Tapper's journey provides a masterclass in resilience, advocacy, and community-building that every music professional should hear.
When Sharon told her parents she was postponing medical school to explore the music business, they never imagined this "gap year" would transform into a decades-long career spanning artist management, publishing, and advocacy. From working at London's legendary SARM Studios with Trevor Horn and George Michael to managing icons like The Cranberries and Meatloaf after a chance green card lottery win brought her to America, Sharon's path reveals how passion and persistence create opportunities in unexpected places.
"You have to do the work," Sharon emphasizes throughout our conversation, dispelling myths about overnight success. Having witnessed firsthand what separates artists who achieve longevity from those who fade away, she offers no-nonsense advice for creators at every career stage. Her most urgent counsel? Build direct relationships with fans through email lists rather than surrendering your audience to social media platforms: "We spent the last 20 years driving our artists to social media, turning those companies into billion-dollar entities at the expense of the artists."
As a leader at the Music Managers Forum US, Sharon champions creators' rights through initiatives like the American Music Fairness Act and the RAP Act while building vital community connections through regional chapters nationwide. These efforts continue the community-building work she pioneered with NYC3, which grew from six professionals around a table to nearly 500 members creating meaningful industry connections.
Perhaps most powerful is Sharon's personal testament to resilience. After surviving a brain hemorrhage in 2007 that forced her to relearn basic skills, she re imagined her approach to work and life: "Health is fragile and you can't take it for granted." This perspective infuses her closing thoughts on embracing failure in an industry often obsessed with perfection: "That's how we learn."
Join us for an inspiring conversation about building careers that last, advocating for change, and creating communities that nurture the next generation of music industry leaders. Subscribe now to hear more stories from the women shaping today's music landscape.
https://www.instagram.com/sharonatapper/
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, rate and share.
Many thanks to Anne Tello for her vocals on the theme song and to our sponsor 'Heard City'.
Check out https://www.shecreatesnoisepodcast.com for more episodes featuring women who power the music industry.
https://www.shecreatesnoise.com/
https://www.sarahnagourney.com
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/shecreatesnoise/
https://www.instagram.com/glassbeatmusic/
Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SheCreatesNoise
Email:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hi, you're listening to Sarah Nagourney and welcome
to.
She Creates Noise, a newpodcast spotlighting women who
power the music industry, comingto you from New York City.
Now, if you don't know me yet,here's a little background.
I'm a songwriter, producer,manager, educator and mentor.
I've written platinum sellingsongs, had tracks on Grammy
nominated educator and mentor.
(00:45):
I've written platinum-sellingsongs, had tracks on
Grammy-nominated records andreleased music on both major and
independent labels.
I've been a jazz singer, ajingle singer, toured with big
bands and became a pop artist,and I've performed at festivals
across the US, europe and Asia.
These days, I focus on writingwith and developing young talent
.
In the coming weeks, I'll bepulling back the curtain on the
(01:07):
music industry's femalechangemakers.
Some are close friends, othersI'm just getting to know, but
all have reshaped the businessin profound ways.
My goal here is to helplisteners better understand how
the music business really worksand just how instrumental women
behind the scenes have been.
You'll hear from both sides ofthe desk artists, producers,
(01:32):
managers, label executives,lawyers.
Women making things happen,often without the spotlight on
them.
Thank you for joining me onthis journey.
Now let's dive in.
Thank you for joining me onthis journey.
Now let's dive in.
She creates noise.
Hi, today I'm so happy to haveSharon Tapper join me here at.
She Creates Noise.
(01:53):
I've been trying to rememberwhen we met Sharon.
I think it might have been whenyou were at Razor and Tie.
I think, originally, maybe10-ish years ago, it was over
there, or Cobalt, I don'tremember yeah it could have been
Cobalt, yeah, but anyway, I'veknown you for a while and it's
wonderful to have you here today.
Thank you for inviting me.
Yeah, so impressed with all thecool stuff you do.
You've had a really interestingjourney.
(02:15):
It spanned artist management,publishing, advocacy and now
leadership at MMF.
What were some of the keyturning points in your path, and
can you tell us a bit aboutyour journey?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Well, I mean, the reality is I was meant to go to
med school and when I was atcollege, getting my A-levels to
take that next step, I worked atthe student union and it was
there that I booked bands.
And it wasn't until that pointthat I was speaking to booking
agents.
I wouldn't realize there was abusiness behind the music.
(02:49):
Um, you can't be what you don'tknow.
And that kind of triggered myinterest and, um, I persuaded my
parents to take a year offwhere my college slot was held,
and that was many, many yearsago.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Boy and oops, and then you never went back, never
went back.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
And they weren't thrilled.
They got comfortable with itover time but it took a long
time and certainly the entiretime I was in management.
They really didn't get it.
They didn't understand.
It's like, well, how can you beworking so hard but you only
make money when they make money?
It's like, well, it's not a,it's not a per hour paid gig or
(03:33):
anything like that, it's.
It's just, it is what it is andthat's just the industry
standard.
They had a very hard time withthat.
They settled in once.
I was in publishing.
That they understood on the bitwas basic because it's very
complex.
But uh, yeah, I took a year offand and I worked, uh, initially
at a place called PRT Records.
(03:54):
Ironically, that's the locationthat Annette Barrett's offices
are now in uh, in Reverb House.
It was PRT House before thatand something else before that
In London.
This is, yeah, in London, and Iworked there for about a year.
And then I worked at arecording studio saw my studios
which was Trevor Horn and JillSinclair's studio in West London
(04:18):
just off of Portobello Road.
How cool, I was there for fouryears and I never expected not
to be in London, but a group ofus entered for the green card
lottery and lo and behold, I gotone.
I was like oh wow.
(04:40):
And figured well, I mean I askedmy parents and they were OK
with it, and off I went.
And first time I got a passportI'd never been out of the
country before, never been on aplane before, all of these
things and I basically tossedthe coin between LA and New York
and LA came up, so off I went.
So that was certainly animportant moment, despite being
(05:01):
in the industry.
So LA was first.
Is that that?
That was certainly an importantmoment?
Uh, despite being in theindustry.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So LA was first.
Is that what you said?
No well.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
LA was first, but my I was already in the industry in
London, but on a very differentcapacity, and I was fortunate
enough to get references fromSeal and George Michael.
So when I landed in LA I had 50interviews and I literally got
to pick jobs and it was awesomeand that was great.
But obviously you know, it'sgreat to have those
(05:33):
opportunities.
Then you have to actually dothe work and make it real.
And the first job I was offeredwas at what was then A&M
Studios.
I was offered the assistantmanager job and I remember just
looking around I'm like it feelslike the same job, just
different geography, and Ifigured if I was going to make
this much of a change in my life, I really wanted to change it
radically.
I wasn't that emotionallyattached to being in a recording
(05:56):
studio.
I mean I enjoyed it, but Iwanted to be more involved in
the actual career of the artist,not just the make and I wanted
to belittle it but not just themaking of the music.
That's obviously a huge part ofit, but it wasn't.
I wanted to explore and stretchin different areas.
So I took a job at Left Bankwhat was then Left Bank Music
(06:22):
and was on reception for like afew weeks and they're like OK
yeah, you were going to move upand I was quickly made like
assistant or day to day managerto one of the managers there, a
guy called Tommy Manzi, and weended up working together for 12
years in different companies.
Wow, and it was.
(06:44):
It was and it was a whirlwind,but I really enjoyed it and I
got to work with some incrediblepeople, I didn't realize you
spent quite so much time in LA.
I was there for seven years.
So I moved there in the May of1993 and was there for seven
(07:06):
years and then, quite honestly,tommy and his family, they, he
wanted to move back to New Yorkto be closer to his family.
So I was at a point where I waslike, well, I'm damned if I'm
going to start all over againwith somebody else.
So I packed and did the move aswell and and he set up his own
(07:27):
up his own company in New York,never looked back.
I wouldn't say I'm a big fan ofthe weather in New York.
Yeah, it's hard to be a fan.
Yeah, I mean I don't like beingcold or wet and you know you
kind of have to suck it up, butthe reality is Los angeles was
(07:48):
very, very hard to do aninternational job and I am very
focused on the global musicmarket, even though I am with
the mmf us.
I get the privilege of workingwith folks at the IMMF, which is
the International MusicManagers Forum, which gives
connectivity to over 60 otherMMFs around the world.
(08:10):
So I love that globalperspective of the industry and
I think we, or certainly the USI think a lot of people can get
very myopic about the US andforget about all the other
wonderful opportunities thatexist in other places around the
world.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Americans are very myopic about the rest of the
world, for sure, yeah yeah, andI think that's a waste, quite
honestly.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Look, you have to be where you're happy and what
makes you fulfilled, and ifthat's the US, you know God
bless you and be you, you and beyou.
But I think if people realizeother things, like other
(08:54):
territories, where they couldreally have a whole other world
of success, I think it would begreat for some folks.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
I couldn't agree more .
I've spent a lot of time inEngland.
As you know, Love it over there.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
In Europe.
I mean, I think the biggestissue is work permits.
Quite honestly, we're inobviously a very strange
political time and, to be fair,even before Trump, it is time
consuming and costly to get thepermit.
So I also understand that thatcould be a turn off.
But you know, again, it's greatto explore other places and get
(09:26):
a feel for the other culturesthat exist and the artists that
that exist outside of the US.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, well, I used to work a lot in England, so I I'm
actually an Irish citizen aswell, which I know is very
fortunate that I had an Irishmom.
So, yeah, very nice yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
So you can also, I'm presuming, because they have
remained in the EU.
Oh yeah, Travel freely throughEurope.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Absolutely yeah.
It's a very valuable passport.
Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
The Schengen zone and all of that.
I'm always telling people it'slike once you're there,
everything's in euros and it'sjust continuous traveling.
You can really write someincredible tours throughout
Europe.
I mean, again, it's not free,but again there's just all these
opportunities, presuming youcan make that first step.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Right Thinking internationally.
It's a great way to go.
Now.
You've been a strong advocatefor music creators through your
work both with the MMFUS andalso with the Recording Academy.
What do you see as the mostpressing issues facing artists
and how do those organizationshelp?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Well, there's power in numbers.
I mean, I think the MusicModernization Act proved that.
That was really one of thefirst times that all of the
parties came together to pushsomething forward.
Because I think, you know,we're always people go down
there, but they go down theirindividual groups and you know
the policymakers get reallyconfused.
(11:00):
It's like, well, this groupwants this, this group wants
that.
What the hell do you want?
Just being able to cometogether on one thing, I think
is really important.
Um, and it's still a challenge.
We try to do a lot incoalitions and we're certainly
part of part of many coalitions.
Um, there really isn't oneissue.
Obviously, ai is a is a loomingthreat.
(11:24):
Yeah, but you know there's also.
You know, artistic freedom.
You know the fact that they'rerestoring the Artistic
Protection Act, the RAP Act, thefact that RAP artists have
unduly been persecuted against.
I mean, as of 2020, more than500 criminal cases have used rap
(11:48):
lyrics as evidence in criminalproceedings.
I mean that's ridiculous.
I mean it's like saying anauthor of a book like American
Psycho, for example, it's likesaying that that author had
criminal intent when he wrotethose words.
It's like saying that thatauthor had criminal intent when
he wrote those words.
It's like what are you talkingabout?
It just is wrong.
(12:11):
And I love that.
The rap act is there to protectnot just rappers.
It's there for all creatives,doesn't matter whether you're an
author or an artist.
It covers all types of art andis there to protect everybody.
And it's it's ridiculous thatcreative freedom of expression
(12:33):
is being used and weaponized inthis very unfair way.
So that's one.
You've got the hits act, whichis trying to bring parity of
full tax deductions to recordingproduction expenses which are
already given to film and TV andtheatre productions.
We've been pushing for that fora while.
(12:53):
I guess one of the biggerthings is the American Music
Fairness Act, the fact thatartists aren't paid for the
performance of songs on radioand never have been.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
So crazy.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
they are in europe, though, of course yeah the only
territories where they are notare north korea, cuba and iran.
Talk about an axis of evil.
It's like, oh my god, it's justblatantly ridiculous.
And you know, and each year youknow.
I mean, the reality is it's theNAB, which is the National
(13:27):
Association of Broadcasters, areincredibly powerful.
They spend millions of dollarson their lobbyists and it's a
fight and a struggle.
But it really shouldn't existand should never have existed.
Exist and should never haveexisted.
But unfortunately, like so manythings in the industry, once
it's been permitted to happenfor any length of time, it's
(13:48):
considered baked in and thentrying to overturn it is, um,
it's a real struggle.
I mean, we'll not stop fightingfor it because it deserves to
be fought for.
But I know just the fact thatthere's a letter in the 70s from
uh, frank sinatra to brucespringsteen urging him to be on
whatever the equivalent of theAMFA Act then was is just like
(14:13):
it kind of shows you, it's likethis as long as radio has
existed, this has been an issueand it really it really
shouldn't, shouldn't.
And the fact that they make 10billion dollars a year in
advertising on these stationsyet can't pay a decent royalty
rate at a time when especiallyno artists can, can ill afford
(14:35):
not to get that money to surviveand also in 1948 they passed a
law that didn't.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
That allowed movie studios not to pay for songs
being used in films that wereshown in the United States.
It's just ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
It is crazy, you know .
And then, obviously, we've gotticketing acts.
We work very closely with NEVA,which is the National
Independent Venue Association,and their ticketing coalition,
which is Fix the Ticks.
We're part of that, and theirticketing coalition, which is
Fix the Ticks we're part of that.
We're part of the coalitionthat is pushing for the Protect
(15:12):
the Working Musicians Act andthat's legislation that's aimed
to address the imbalance ofpower between major tech
companies and independentartists to give them the ability
to advocate up for better termsin in the digital marketplace.
I mean, there's all of thisgoing on.
It wow, you're involved in somany things there's a lot
(15:35):
there's a lot, but there reallyisn't one thing that there's
always a battles on any numberof fronts and um, you just push
forward with with as much as youcan for as long as you can,
until until you see light at theend of the tunnel and hopefully
something gets passed, or youknow, or you know becomes
(15:56):
presenting it.
You know the the american musicfairness act has been many
forms that people have beenpushing for for for many decades
, so hopefully it will pass inthis form.
We'll see, god willing that'sincredible.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Another amazing thing oh, so many amazing things you
do.
Uh, you've also worked withiconic artists like the
cranberries, meatloaf,eagle-eyed cherry, just to name
a few.
From a perspective, I guess,really, as a publisher, what
distinguishes those artists whoachieve longevity from those who
burn out?
I mean, you've seen itfirsthand.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
I didn't work with them as publishers, I worked
with them as management.
What I saw was, especially inMeatloaf, just work ethic.
Um, he worked so hard and um,you know nothing but respect for
(16:49):
him and I.
It breaks my heart thatobviously he passed during COVID
and it breaks my heart thatthat's what he remembered for it
was like, oh, you know that hewas amazing.
He treated me so well and I'llalways have a great amount of
kindness that he and his familyshowed me.
(17:12):
And yeah, we went on tour.
It was, I mean, you know theCranberries.
So what did you do with theCranberries when I was at Left
Bank Management?
I was their day-to-day manager.
That was when I first got there.
I was working on Meatloaf andRichard Marks to an extent,
(17:36):
duran, duran, and then theCranberries joined, joined and
you know you, over time I endedup being um.
I worked in tour marketing.
So I worked across all thedifferent artists there.
So that was like, uh, the BeeGees, john Mellencamp, luther
Vandross, smotley Crue, justevery artist there you got to
(17:59):
work across um, but I stillcarried on being very close with
you know the folks that I didday to day for and you know you
kind of would get in at at sixand you'd leave at midnight or
the early hours and you just youknow it was 24, seven and you
just try to pull all the threadstogether to make their
(18:22):
experience as seamless aspossible.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Lucky them to have you is all I can say.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Working with them is crazy.
They also, you know, I startedworking with them when I was in
my like I was 23, 24.
So you know, they also gave methe ability to learn and I'll
always be grateful to them forthat.
That's cool.
You know, I was birthed withwith knowledge.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I had to learn it.
I actually had kate hyman on uhthe podcast and she brought the
cranberries to denny cordell.
I just, I didn't know that, buta little little yeah, yeah,
well, you know it was.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
It was amazing to watch their evolution.
I mean, you know, just to, tosee them.
I mean, you know, when I firststarted working with them, they
weren't even 21.
I had to go and get the beerfor them and sink it into the
hotel.
You know it was.
You know again, it's just, it'sfun, it's hard work but it's
also great to, you know, to havethose experiences and you know.
(19:27):
But I have to say, over time Ijust got to a point where I just
I can't do this anymore.
Yeah, crazy hours, and that'swhen, just strange timing, and
you know, I ended up pivoting tobecoming a publisher and became
the third US employee at Cobalt.
But it wasn't like I plannedthat, um, it just just worked
out that way and I reallyenjoyed being a publisher for
(19:48):
the years that I have been.
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
You know, I have to say, one of the things I know
you best for and one of yourgreatest strengths, and
something that's touched many ofus is the way that you've built
community here in New York andyour continuous mentorship.
I mean the work you did withNYC3 to strengthen New York's
professional community andyou've also just helped a lot of
emerging professionals.
What inspired you to do allthis community work?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Well, nyc3, which was the New York City creative
community, that really came outof necessity.
Gosh, when was that?
When we?
When did we start that?
I guess it was 2010, ish, wedon't even remember our first
event.
We should have been much betterin a record keeping it was a
(20:37):
great or I loved it.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
There was great organization, yeah, and I was
speakers, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
I mean Linda Lawrence Gritelli.
She was at CSAC at the time.
It was just six of us at first,sitting around a conference
table just bemoaning the factcreators were leaving New York
to go to all these places and Icouldn't blame them, none of us
could of living in New York isnose-bleedingly expensive and
(21:04):
other places were offering themtax credits and all kinds of
shiny objects to throw them away.
And certainly nobody can blamepeople for that.
People have to go where theopportunities are.
But we wanted to at leastremind people that there were
still creatives here, because wewould hear constantly oh,
(21:27):
there's nobody left in New Yorkanymore.
It's like what are you talkingabout?
So we over time, put together adatabase that we shared with
people around the world and belike hey, who you working, who
do you want to work with?
It's like these people are hereand just, you know, built,
build it up over time.
I mean, what was six firstaround a conference table ended
(21:49):
up growing to I don't know 450,nearly 500 professionals in the
industry.
So those were either people whoyou know worked with artists
and creatives.
So that would be creatives andpublisher companies, a&rs, you
(22:09):
know sync folks, you know allkinds of people.
They were just like one stepremoved from the creators
themselves.
So we would do alternate months, so we would do meetings with
just those folks, with a guestspeaker, and then the following
month we would just do a mixerwhere we opened the doors up to
all of the creatives soeverybody could mix and mingle
(22:30):
and get to know each other, andit was just a great way that we
could remind one another likewho was here.
You know, because we did itoften enough.
It's like look, just show up towhatever you can.
It was always like a cash barsituation, um, except for the,
the one that we did during indieweek.
That was a a full-on likeshowcase where we would
(22:51):
highlight different artists andand and that was a lot of work
but a great way in which to putus on the map and people would
really flock to the events.
It was always like a packedhouse and it was great to be
able to do that and to to alsoengage with the artists who were
here and pull them from ourcommunity.
(23:13):
We'd openly throw out toprobably ask it's like who's
here, who should we focus on?
Who are you working on, whoshould we spotlight and try to
share the love in that way.
And in other years we would,you know, have people submit
themselves to be considered andthen we had a local New York A&R
pick out who should have theopportunity, and that worked
(23:34):
really well and, quite honestly,if I hadn't have done that, I
most probably wouldn't be doingthis job now, Because you're
doing a lot of the same kinds ofget togethers, I guess with the
MMF.
Yeah, but now it's nationwide.
I remember people like, oh, wemissed NYC3.
It's like come to these events,what are you talking about?
It's still happening.
We have seven, about to haveeight chapters nationwide.
(23:59):
So we've got LA, New York,Miami, Chicago, Austin, Boston,
Nashville and we're about tolaunch Atlanta this year, and
each of them are at differentplaces.
Obviously, LA and New York arethe most evolved because they
already existed before I gothere and being able to, you know
(24:21):
, work with people in thesedifferent locations I mean, at
first we didn't have people, sowe had to find people to
represent us and then help them.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Well, it was here.
It was just a bit sleepy beforeyou came along.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Yeah, Well, I mean the MMF was here, but I'm
talking about in the localchapters.
Oh yeah, yeah for sure.
So you know, it's great that wenow have bodies and committees
in all of these places, so nowwe can actually do really
meaningful programming forpeople locally as well, because
I think people you know they,they crave community, especially
(24:55):
after the pandemic.
It's always been important, butbeing able to put those events
together where people can justmix and mingle and learn and
share from one another, I meanit's it's, it's where people of
all levels can exist and, um,it's just things that just the
(25:15):
proximity of people, just themagic happens.
People leave it's like, thankyou, this wouldn't have happened
.
And it's like, hey, thank youfor showing up.
You know, it's not like we, we,we match make people.
We just have people in our roomand they kind of do the work
from there, but without theproximity, things wouldn't have
(25:36):
happened without that.
So you know, it's just it'sgreat to be able to bring that
community, uh, where's so needed.
Quite honestly, it's great.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I mean, I've been to a bunch of your events here in
LA and I'm always meeting newpeople.
It's fantastic.
I don't know how you do it all,but it really works great, and
we're lucky to have you puttingall this in.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Well, I'm fortunate to to now be able to oversee it.
I mean, we, we do, we, we workwith them on the programming,
but it's it's, it's, it's onthem, the local chapters to, to
organize it.
I mean, we definitely work withthem and make sure um, you know
it's promoted and you know it'sright, but it's programmed
(26:25):
correctly and it's like, whatelse can we do bring to it?
Pretend?
I mean, you know, sometimes wehave to like work on a little
bit, but you know it's, it'svery much part of the chapter's
um role is to plan one thing perquarter and that can be a mixer
, it can be a panel, it can begoing to a sporting event, it
(26:46):
can be bowling, it doesn'treally matter.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
It's just that experience of just a communal
activity and it's all ages,which is great, oh yeah it's all
ages, it's all levels.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
A lot of often the mix is we don't have to be a
member to to join or toparticipate, just show up, it's
it's.
You know we're.
We're a trade association thatwas established in 1993 and it
was intended purely forprofessional artist managers.
Nina ragawanzi, who's thepresident of both the mmf us,
(27:26):
which is the music managersforum us, is also now president
of the immf, which is theinternational music managers
forum, and when she came in tobe president of the mmf us she
was basically like we gotta let,we gotta open the doors.
We've got to let people who areself-managed artists be part of
this so we can help educatethem and help them on their
(27:47):
journey.
And maybe they'll want to carryon managing themselves or maybe
they'll need a manager.
So you know, it's in ourinterest to help them and give
them the tools to succeed.
I mean, all we can do is givethem the toolkit.
What they choose to do with itis up to them.
(28:09):
And the reality is, as you know,there's no one set journey that
to success.
There's any number of routesand it's really up to the artist
and the manager to kind ofnavigate that hand in hand.
No magic pill to kind ofnavigate that hand in hand?
No magic pill, there is nomagic.
Yeah, people come to us all thetime, you know, expecting us to
(28:30):
be able to wave a wand.
It's like it doesn't work likethat.
You know, it's like you got towork, everybody's got to work.
There is no such thing as anovernight success.
Nobody, you know, when you lookback at everybody, I mean Billie
Eilish was releasing songs onSoundCloud.
Katy Perry was dropped Godknows how many times.
Japper Rowan you know she'sbeen at this for years.
(28:54):
I mean you know it's just 10years.
Yeah, I mean, you know it's,it's just nuts.
But the ones who succeed have,like, a huge amount of work
ethic and you know it's.
Obviously it's not just thatthere is this.
Talent is part of it, but workethic is a huge part of it, as
(29:16):
well, no, it's huge, I can tellyou have seen it up close.
Yeah, and the team you havearound you.
I mean, over time, you know, asyou need to add people because
nobody knows everything and youneed to bring in different
professionals doing differentthings at different times,
whether that's business manager,an attorney, you know.
Obviously a manager, you know.
(29:37):
But beyond that as well, youknow, maybe you need somebody
who specializes in a type ofmarketing or social media or
whatever it is, you know, tryingto identify who those right
people are to bring into yourorbit as well.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
And I and I know I believe there'll be some people,
young people, listening andthey're going to probably wonder
what advice you have for thosepeople looking to build a
lasting career, either you know,as an artist or in the business
itself.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Just, again, hard work as an artist or in the
business itself.
Just again, hard work, buildyour career.
I think we get too many artistswho come to us saying I need a
manager.
It's like, okay, you have sevenfollowers on Spotify or you
look.
It's like, well, what are theymanaging A?
(30:28):
And you know they just don'tjustify it.
And you know, don't disrespect,but you've got to build it.
You've got to be able to havesell shows, you've got to be
able to sell tickets and you'vegot to be able to navigate this
professionally and grow it to apoint because, quite honestly,
if you're selling shows andyou're drawing people in, they
will find you, because promotersand venues you know they talk,
(30:53):
you know we talk with them, youknow all the time and if there's
something they're excited about, they will let us know.
And people try to jump too earlyand it's like you've got to do
the work, you've got to havesomething and you've got to
build something and then, onceyou get to that point, things
will start coming to you and Ithink people are expect to sign
(31:19):
with a manager and they will.
They can then, you know,abdicate responsibility for
their career almost, and it'slike no, you have to understand
what it is you're doing.
You have to, um, you have to dothat work to get yourself to at
least a certain level, and Ithink that's where I see too
many people just get boredreally quickly and you know, the
(31:44):
reality is you put the releaseout, you, you work it.
Uh, you know, hopefully you'retouring, you, you can keep
expanding on your touring routeand keep adding more markets and
increase your footprint and youjust have to keep doing it and
it's a long slog and I thinkpeople, you know they get caught
(32:06):
up in the illusion of itwithout really understanding
what's involved.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
And on the business side, I think you're an
excellent example of someone whojust kind of went for it.
You got a gig and you got a job, you figured out how to make it
work and you just kept goingfrom there by putting in the
time.
And there's another person Iwas talking to on the podcast
and she was saying how she puttogether a music night, her and
(32:32):
another friend, while she hadlike a very lowly job and
because of that she had allthese people coming to the shows
and she was meeting managersand new artists and it just kind
of expanded much, much likeyou're doing.
But you know, for young peoplego, I've tried to get a job, you
know, on the internet and I'mnot getting a response.
You kind of have to create yourown luck really.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
I mean, you know, we've got.
This is really so.
There's this group of us up inWestchester, this is really so.
There's this group of us up inWestchester, so that's where I
live and, um, a few of us have.
This is pre-pandemic.
I guess we've been doing thisfor eight or nine years, maybe
longer.
But basically, like, why are weall meeting up in the city?
We live in Westchester, why arewe meeting out there?
(33:15):
This is ridiculous.
So we put together, know, theWestchester Music Meetup group
and we started with about 40 or50 people that we knew and we're
nearly, we're over 150 peopleat this point.
And again, we just put thingstogether.
We just, you know, pick a venue, we warn the venue.
It's like, are we okay to dothis?
(33:37):
It's cash bar.
It's like are we okay to dothis?
It's cash bar.
And you know, I recently sharedit with the regional liaisons
at the New York RecordingAcademy and I said, look, you
know, I get that you guys areall over the footprint of the
New York chapter and we talklike every quarter.
But you know, I just want tolet you know that we do this.
(33:58):
Any of you are welcome toattend if you so wish.
But this is an example ofsomething you can do in your own
market.
You can put something togetherand build a community, and it's
just an incredible way ofmeeting people that you may have
forgotten, that were in yourbackyard or you didn't know were
in your backyard.
I mean, these are people whomay be up the street from you.
(34:25):
You'd be like, oh my god, noneof this is rocket science.
That's the thing.
It's just like you just gottaput it together and and do it
and then keep doing it and justmake sure there's a cadence to
doing it.
You can't just do it once andthen you know I think that's
what people expect like well, Iput this out.
Why didn't it respond?
It's like, well, because youhave to keep doing it it's.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
It's very true.
You, I mean, it's amazing.
You, you do all.
I don't know how you do allthese things.
Um, you know from your earlydays at Sarm West, with legends
like George Michael, paulMcCartney, what's the shift in
the industry and and what do yousee happening in the future.
What?
What is your you know?
Are you optimistic?
What are you feeling happeningin the future?
What is your you know?
Are you optimistic?
What are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (35:02):
I'd remain optimistic .
I mean, ai is definitelysomething that is threatening
creativity.
I mean the fact that somebodywith zero musical skills is
suddenly able to like create apiece of music, but obviously
it's not theirs.
They don't have any creativity.
They put in some in someprompts, you know, and that's
(35:23):
just being depending on theplatform, is just being stolen
from creatives and that, to me,I find very disturbing.
But I think, when it comes downto it, it has become harder for
creatives to make a living and Ithink that is an issue.
And I think, you know, there'sa lot of people who are for lack
(35:44):
of a better word hobbyists, whowant this to be reality.
And, again, if we can help themmake that step from a hobby to
a career, then that's somethingwe obviously want to try and do.
Obviously, it's not going towork for everybody.
There's a lot of stuff outthere.
There's a lot of stuff outthere.
There's a lot of stuff, youknow, and not all of it is great
(36:05):
stuff, but some of it is, and Ijust pray that the people who
are doing truly extraordinarywork have the stamina and the
thick skin to prevail and keeppushing their career forward,
because you know it is hard, butyou know, the reality is it
(36:26):
really comes down to being ableto sustain yourself and figuring
out the best way to do that.
And definitely it's like doingshows.
Getting in front of people arereally important and I can never
overstate this enough.
Having a mailing list, notInstagram followers, not any
(36:46):
kind of social media followers,that's great, but you cannot
communicate with them directlyand if you cannot do that, you
cannot really sustain yourcareer properly.
You have to be able tocommunicate with these people
directly.
Sustain your career properly,you have to be able to
communicate with these peopledirectly.
So getting them off of thatonto a mailing list is, I think,
a big priority.
For artists, um, we spent thelast 20 years driving our
(37:08):
artists to social media and it'squite honestly, and I'm turning
those companies into billiondollar entities at the expense
of the artists.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
And it's not just artists, it's photographers,
it's authors, it's all arts andjust to be clear, you mean like
really having an email list likethe good old days I'm talking
about email list.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
I'm talking about name number email.
If they want to share theirmailing address, that's fine,
but you know, I don't thinkpeople are.
I mean, look, if people want todo postcard mailers, I think
they're great, but I'm talkingabout being able to email
somebody directly with whatyou're working on.
Hey, we've got this show comingup.
(37:51):
Being able to, like, targetpeople geographically when you
want a show happening, I thinkis, I think is really powerful.
I mean, I never forget I sentthe Dreads and Dolls when I was
at Cobalt and you went to theirshows.
They were so militant abouttheir mailing list.
I mean they would be in thecrowds like, are you on our
(38:12):
mailing list, why not here?
And you know that mailing listwas really built out of Amanda
Palmer's paranoia Like, all ofthis can leave us, our label can
leave, our publisher can leave,our manager can leave,
everything can just implode.
This list is all we have andit's that list that enabled her
to do the first million dollarartist Patreon campaign.
(38:34):
And you know, that's just, Ithink, a lesson for all artists.
I don't care who you are, atwhat level you are, you have to
know who your fans are and youhave to know how to connect with
them and be able to dialoguewith them.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I love this point.
This is great.
This is a really importantpoint.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
I mean, you know just , giving them exclusivity on
things it doesn't.
You know, just don't be theworst boyfriend in the world.
Don't constantly ask, ask, ask,give, give them things that you
know make them feel special,you know, without them.
You know artists are nothingwithout their fans and you have
to be, you have to treat thatwith responsibility and respect.
(39:17):
To be, you have to treat thatwith responsibility and respect.
And, um, you know, maybe it's ademo that it will make the, the
album that you want to sharewith them, or maybe you're doing
an ep, whatever it is, givingthem things that are that are
meaningful or important and, uh,you know, that's again, nothing
(39:39):
, I think is rocket science, butjust being able to uh, empower
yourself to move your careerforward, that that's a really
easily overlooked thing knowyour audience, know your
audience be able to communicatewith them, and this is from like
beginning onwards, every showonwards, don't?
(40:01):
I think people hide behind theirsocial media?
It's like oh, follow myinstagram post.
Fuck that, have a mailing list,go and stand at the merch.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Bring a pad of paper and a pen.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Bring a pad of paper get and make sure that you, when
you you finish, either thatevening or the following day,
get it into an Excel.
It's not complicated, and thenyou can do something like
MailChimp.
There's all kinds of platforms.
We use MailChimp, so I'm mostfluent with them but they've got
(40:34):
a basic level that's free up toa certain amount.
Just start there.
I mean, god willing, you'll getto the point where you pay for
it because you've got enough ata basic level that's free up to
a certain amount.
Just start there.
I mean, god willing, you get apoint where you pay for it
because you've got enough fans.
Then you can justify it.
Um, but just starting there, Imean you know we've been very
cognizant in adding vinyl to ourour membership um discounts
(40:56):
recently.
So we've now got work and we'recitizen vinyl out of ashville,
north carolina, and they giveour members a five percent
discount on on uh, on vinylpressing, which I think is
that's a great way to make moneyquite honestly.
I mean you only need to sell afew of those to to help.
Look, it's not going to covereverything, but it all helps.
When you add all these bits ofincome up, it can make a
(41:18):
difference in the sustainabilityof the career.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
And it's more meaningful than a t-shirt, you
know.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
It is, and I don't know about you, but I used to.
I remember sitting on the floorand pouring over the liner
notes and, and you know, playingthe music and just, you know
that was just, I don't know.
That's kind of missing.
Now you don't have that in adigital way.
You have no idea who made therecord, who mixed it and
(41:45):
mastered it and who were themusicians and who were the
writers, and I just kind ofloved finding all that out and
going that deep dive and reallyjust, I don't know, felt more
connected with music and uh, itreally is.
I think people are doing it moreand more often, but you know,
(42:07):
maybe you do in a really prettyway.
I mean, you can do all kinds offun things with the vinyl color
and and you know, maybe you doan exclusive run of a hundred
and that make it super, superspecial.
And you know, maybe people Idon't know.
However, you know, however youchoose to to get that out there.
But I think, again, makingthings that are special, all
(42:27):
right, but not doing it overlyto a point where it's, oh god,
they've gone another.
Then they're like doingsomething where it's like 20
different colored vinyls and youknow it's just like do it again
.
Treat your fans with respectand dignity, don't be abusive in
the relationship, becausenobody likes that, and you turn
them off quite honestly, quiterightly.
(42:48):
And there are so many artistsand you really want to do it in
a way where you know they're init for the long haul.
I mean, I'm sure you rememberwhen Lady Gaga started out.
She couldn't get arrested.
She was bouncing between labels.
I remember seeing her at theBitter End.
She obviously had the charismaand the talent but just didn't
(43:09):
have the songs.
And then she clicked.
She was working with the rightsongwriters but she was working
with, I think she called them,called them little monsters, and
that was really a street teamand they would go out and they
would rabid for her and theystill you know, I mean, she
still looks after them shelearned.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
She learned the hard way you had to figure it out.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Yeah but there's nothing stopping any artist from
doing that.
Yeah, have your team, you have.
You have your super fans, youhave those people and you again,
it's like send them someposters to put up, or, you know,
give them some something signedthat really is meaningful to
them and you know, again, justdo it in a way that isn't usury
(43:55):
great well, there's so manyfascinating things we could talk
about.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
I wonder if there's anything that I didn't bring up,
that you wanted to say, or anyquestion I didn't ask.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
It's a marathon, it's not a sprint and you know I
think longevity is definitely,you know, important.
So looking after yourself isreally important.
I think self-care you know Iknow there's a lot now about
mental health and you know asthere should be um, but you know
(44:26):
being staying healthy on theroad, or staying healthy is is
important.
So just being able to take careof yourself and your team
members and and your band andeverybody else is important.
Just making sure everybody'sokay and making recognizing in
yourself.
When you're not okay, beingable to take a beat and try and
look after yourself.
(44:47):
Don't, don't overlook your ownhealth because in the long term,
that is what will sustain youand you need to be healthy, yes,
important and and a tough thingto be in in the music industry.
It is, and sometimes you have tosay no, and you know, I think,
there's so much FOMO in thisworld.
(45:09):
I, I've certainly.
I think as I've got older I'vegot better at it.
I I don't really experiencethat to any extent anymore, and
I used to be everything and,ironically, through a health
incident, I had a brainhemorrhage in 2007 that nearly
killed me and I had to rejig myentire way in which I worked.
(45:34):
I mean, the reality is it leftme with essentially what was
stroke.
I was put on a ward with strokevictims and I had to learn to
read, write, walk, talk, and ittook about six months to get
back to any degree of normalityand that was really scary.
But it made me realize thathealth is fragile and you can't
(45:57):
take it for granted.
I think we do take it forgranted, but you know, I, I was
at every show.
I mean, prior to that, I was atmaybe three shows a night,
nearly every night of the week.
I kind of tried to keep, youknow, the weekends to myself.
Just that was my time where Iliterally just slept to recharge
and be ready for the followingweek.
(46:17):
But you know, week, but youknow, through that, through that
scare, it kind of led me.
It's like okay, I've got totake better care of myself and I
got to learn how to do thingsdifferently.
Because the reality was Icouldn't go to shows anymore,
that the um, the scars on myhead from the surgery were just
so sensitive I couldn't bearound live music and couldn't
(46:40):
be for a really long time.
So I had like, well, how am I,how am I going to carry on doing
this?
And I just learned differentthings and took my career in a
different way.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I didn't know you went through that and I'm glad
to have you here today we'reglad to have you here today.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Yeah, glad to be here , but it definitely changed a
lot.
I'm so blessed that I'm I'mable to, to be able to carry on
doing what I I love for a living.
I mean, that's reality.
I think we're blessed if we canwake up every day and do what
we love for a living.
Then you know we're better offthan 99.9 percent of people in
the world, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
And, and you know, thank you so much for for
encouraging our listeners to tostay the course and giving such
great advice and um reallyappreciate it having you here
today and, uh, look forward tohaving you on the next episodes
in the future.
No, problem.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
I mean just quickly.
One last thing.
I think people are so afraid offailure because we're in this
perfect Instagram of the worldand it's like you're going to
fail.
It's okay, I mean it's not, butit's just.
Expectation of perfection isridiculous, and that's how we
learn is by failure, and youknow, I think people have to be
(47:58):
at peace with that as well.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Absolutely Well sage words from Sharon Tapper.
Thank you so much.
You're very welcome.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Thank you Appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
I'd like to thank today's sponsor, heard City, the
premier audio post-productioncompany servicing the
advertising, motion picture andtelevision industries right here
in NYC.
I'd also like to thank Antelloaka XON for singing the she
Creates Noise theme that I wrote.
Thanks for listening to sheCreates Noise.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe, rate and
(48:34):
share.
I want to thank the team hereBlair Reinly, jelena Stavanovic,
emily Wilson and the Master ofEngineering and Grammy-winning
Cooper.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Anderson, We'll see you next time.
We hear her voice.
She creates noise.
Hi, you're listening to Sarah Nagourney and welcome
to.
She Creates Noise, a newpodcast spotlighting women who
power the music industry, comingto you from New York City.
Now, if you don't know me yet,here's a little background.
I'm a songwriter, producer,manager, educator and mentor.
I've written platinum sellingsongs, had tracks on Grammy
nominated educator and mentor.
(00:45):
I've written platinum-sellingsongs, had tracks on
Grammy-nominated records andreleased music on both major and
independent labels.
I've been a jazz singer, ajingle singer, toured with big
bands and became a pop artist,and I've performed at festivals
across the US, europe and Asia.
These days, I focus on writingwith and developing young talent
.
In the coming weeks, I'll bepulling back the curtain on the
(01:07):
music industry's femalechangemakers.
Some are close friends, othersI'm just getting to know, but
all have reshaped the businessin profound ways.
My goal here is to helplisteners better understand how
the music business really worksand just how instrumental women
behind the scenes have been.
You'll hear from both sides ofthe desk artists, producers,
(01:32):
managers, label executives,lawyers.
Women making things happen,often without the spotlight on
them.
Thank you for joining me onthis journey.
Now let's dive in.
Thank you for joining me onthis journey.
Now let's dive in.
She creates noise.
Hi, today I'm so happy to haveSharon Tapper join me here at.
She Creates Noise.
(01:53):
I've been trying to rememberwhen we met Sharon.
I think it might have been whenyou were at Razor and Tie.
I think, originally, maybe10-ish years ago, it was over
there, or Cobalt, I don'tremember yeah it could have been
Cobalt, yeah, but anyway, I'veknown you for a while and it's
wonderful to have you here today.
Thank you for inviting me.
Yeah, so impressed with all thecool stuff you do.
You've had a really interestingjourney.
(02:15):
It spanned artist management,publishing, advocacy and now
leadership at MMF.
What were some of the keyturning points in your path, and
can you tell us a bit aboutyour journey?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Well, I mean, the reality is I was meant to go to
med school and when I was atcollege, getting my A-levels to
take that next step, I worked atthe student union and it was
there that I booked bands.
And it wasn't until that pointthat I was speaking to booking
agents.
I wouldn't realize there was abusiness behind the music.
(02:49):
Um, you can't be what you don'tknow.
And that kind of triggered myinterest and, um, I persuaded my
parents to take a year offwhere my college slot was held,
and that was many, many yearsago.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Boy and oops, and then you never went back, never
went back.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
And they weren't thrilled.
They got comfortable with itover time but it took a long
time and certainly the entiretime I was in management.
They really didn't get it.
They didn't understand.
It's like, well, how can you beworking so hard but you only
make money when they make money?
It's like, well, it's not a,it's not a per hour paid gig or
(03:33):
anything like that, it's.
It's just, it is what it is andthat's just the industry
standard.
They had a very hard time withthat.
They settled in once.
I was in publishing.
That they understood on the bitwas basic because it's very
complex.
But uh, yeah, I took a year offand and I worked, uh, initially
at a place called PRT Records.
(03:54):
Ironically, that's the locationthat Annette Barrett's offices
are now in uh, in Reverb House.
It was PRT House before thatand something else before that
In London.
This is, yeah, in London, and Iworked there for about a year.
And then I worked at arecording studio saw my studios
which was Trevor Horn and JillSinclair's studio in West London
(04:18):
just off of Portobello Road.
How cool, I was there for fouryears and I never expected not
to be in London, but a group ofus entered for the green card
lottery and lo and behold, I gotone.
I was like oh wow.
(04:40):
And figured well, I mean I askedmy parents and they were OK
with it, and off I went.
And first time I got a passportI'd never been out of the
country before, never been on aplane before, all of these
things and I basically tossedthe coin between LA and New York
and LA came up, so off I went.
So that was certainly animportant moment, despite being
(05:01):
in the industry.
So LA was first.
Is that that?
That was certainly an importantmoment?
Uh, despite being in theindustry.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So LA was first.
Is that what you said?
No well.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
LA was first, but my I was already in the industry in
London, but on a very differentcapacity, and I was fortunate
enough to get references fromSeal and George Michael.
So when I landed in LA I had 50interviews and I literally got
to pick jobs and it was awesomeand that was great.
But obviously you know, it'sgreat to have those
(05:33):
opportunities.
Then you have to actually dothe work and make it real.
And the first job I was offeredwas at what was then A&M
Studios.
I was offered the assistantmanager job and I remember just
looking around I'm like it feelslike the same job, just
different geography, and Ifigured if I was going to make
this much of a change in my life, I really wanted to change it
radically.
I wasn't that emotionallyattached to being in a recording
(05:56):
studio.
I mean I enjoyed it, but Iwanted to be more involved in
the actual career of the artist,not just the make and I wanted
to belittle it but not just themaking of the music.
That's obviously a huge part ofit, but it wasn't.
I wanted to explore and stretchin different areas.
So I took a job at Left Bankwhat was then Left Bank Music
(06:22):
and was on reception for like afew weeks and they're like OK
yeah, you were going to move upand I was quickly made like
assistant or day to day managerto one of the managers there, a
guy called Tommy Manzi, and weended up working together for 12
years in different companies.
Wow, and it was.
(06:44):
It was and it was a whirlwind,but I really enjoyed it and I
got to work with some incrediblepeople, I didn't realize you
spent quite so much time in LA.
I was there for seven years.
So I moved there in the May of1993 and was there for seven
(07:06):
years and then, quite honestly,tommy and his family, they, he
wanted to move back to New Yorkto be closer to his family.
So I was at a point where I waslike, well, I'm damned if I'm
going to start all over againwith somebody else.
So I packed and did the move aswell and and he set up his own
(07:27):
up his own company in New York,never looked back.
I wouldn't say I'm a big fan ofthe weather in New York.
Yeah, it's hard to be a fan.
Yeah, I mean I don't like beingcold or wet and you know you
kind of have to suck it up, butthe reality is Los angeles was
(07:48):
very, very hard to do aninternational job and I am very
focused on the global musicmarket, even though I am with
the mmf us.
I get the privilege of workingwith folks at the IMMF, which is
the International MusicManagers Forum, which gives
connectivity to over 60 otherMMFs around the world.
(08:10):
So I love that globalperspective of the industry and
I think we, or certainly the USI think a lot of people can get
very myopic about the US andforget about all the other
wonderful opportunities thatexist in other places around the
world.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Americans are very myopic about the rest of the
world, for sure, yeah yeah, andI think that's a waste, quite
honestly.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Look, you have to be where you're happy and what
makes you fulfilled, and ifthat's the US, you know God
bless you and be you, you and beyou.
But I think if people realizeother things, like other
(08:54):
territories, where they couldreally have a whole other world
of success, I think it would begreat for some folks.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
I couldn't agree more .
I've spent a lot of time inEngland.
As you know, Love it over there.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
In Europe.
I mean, I think the biggestissue is work permits.
Quite honestly, we're inobviously a very strange
political time and, to be fair,even before Trump, it is time
consuming and costly to get thepermit.
So I also understand that thatcould be a turn off.
But you know, again, it's greatto explore other places and get
(09:26):
a feel for the other culturesthat exist and the artists that
that exist outside of the US.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, well, I used to work a lot in England, so I I'm
actually an Irish citizen aswell, which I know is very
fortunate that I had an Irishmom.
So, yeah, very nice yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
So you can also, I'm presuming, because they have
remained in the EU.
Oh yeah, Travel freely throughEurope.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Absolutely yeah.
It's a very valuable passport.
Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
The Schengen zone and all of that.
I'm always telling people it'slike once you're there,
everything's in euros and it'sjust continuous traveling.
You can really write someincredible tours throughout
Europe.
I mean, again, it's not free,but again there's just all these
opportunities, presuming youcan make that first step.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Right Thinking internationally.
It's a great way to go.
Now.
You've been a strong advocatefor music creators through your
work both with the MMFUS andalso with the Recording Academy.
What do you see as the mostpressing issues facing artists
and how do those organizationshelp?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Well, there's power in numbers.
I mean, I think the MusicModernization Act proved that.
That was really one of thefirst times that all of the
parties came together to pushsomething forward.
Because I think, you know,we're always people go down
there, but they go down theirindividual groups and you know
the policymakers get reallyconfused.
(11:00):
It's like, well, this groupwants this, this group wants
that.
What the hell do you want?
Just being able to cometogether on one thing, I think
is really important.
Um, and it's still a challenge.
We try to do a lot incoalitions and we're certainly
part of part of many coalitions.
Um, there really isn't oneissue.
Obviously, ai is a is a loomingthreat.
(11:24):
Yeah, but you know there's also.
You know, artistic freedom.
You know the fact that they'rerestoring the Artistic
Protection Act, the RAP Act, thefact that RAP artists have
unduly been persecuted against.
I mean, as of 2020, more than500 criminal cases have used rap
(11:48):
lyrics as evidence in criminalproceedings.
I mean that's ridiculous.
I mean it's like saying anauthor of a book like American
Psycho, for example, it's likesaying that that author had
criminal intent when he wrotethose words.
It's like saying that thatauthor had criminal intent when
he wrote those words.
It's like what are you talkingabout?
It just is wrong.
(12:11):
And I love that.
The rap act is there to protectnot just rappers.
It's there for all creatives,doesn't matter whether you're an
author or an artist.
It covers all types of art andis there to protect everybody.
And it's it's ridiculous thatcreative freedom of expression
(12:33):
is being used and weaponized inthis very unfair way.
So that's one.
You've got the hits act, whichis trying to bring parity of
full tax deductions to recordingproduction expenses which are
already given to film and TV andtheatre productions.
We've been pushing for that fora while.
(12:53):
I guess one of the biggerthings is the American Music
Fairness Act, the fact thatartists aren't paid for the
performance of songs on radioand never have been.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
So crazy.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
they are in europe, though, of course yeah the only
territories where they are notare north korea, cuba and iran.
Talk about an axis of evil.
It's like, oh my god, it's justblatantly ridiculous.
And you know, and each year youknow.
I mean, the reality is it's theNAB, which is the National
(13:27):
Association of Broadcasters, areincredibly powerful.
They spend millions of dollarson their lobbyists and it's a
fight and a struggle.
But it really shouldn't existand should never have existed.
Exist and should never haveexisted.
But unfortunately, like so manythings in the industry, once
it's been permitted to happenfor any length of time, it's
(13:48):
considered baked in and thentrying to overturn it is, um,
it's a real struggle.
I mean, we'll not stop fightingfor it because it deserves to
be fought for.
But I know just the fact thatthere's a letter in the 70s from
uh, frank sinatra to brucespringsteen urging him to be on
whatever the equivalent of theAMFA Act then was is just like
(14:13):
it kind of shows you, it's likethis as long as radio has
existed, this has been an issueand it really it really
shouldn't, shouldn't.
And the fact that they make 10billion dollars a year in
advertising on these stationsyet can't pay a decent royalty
rate at a time when especiallyno artists can, can ill afford
(14:35):
not to get that money to surviveand also in 1948 they passed a
law that didn't.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
That allowed movie studios not to pay for songs
being used in films that wereshown in the United States.
It's just ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
It is crazy, you know .
And then, obviously, we've gotticketing acts.
We work very closely with NEVA,which is the National
Independent Venue Association,and their ticketing coalition,
which is Fix the Ticks.
We're part of that, and theirticketing coalition, which is
Fix the Ticks we're part of that.
We're part of the coalitionthat is pushing for the Protect
(15:12):
the Working Musicians Act andthat's legislation that's aimed
to address the imbalance ofpower between major tech
companies and independentartists to give them the ability
to advocate up for better termsin in the digital marketplace.
I mean, there's all of thisgoing on.
It wow, you're involved in somany things there's a lot
(15:35):
there's a lot, but there reallyisn't one thing that there's
always a battles on any numberof fronts and um, you just push
forward with with as much as youcan for as long as you can,
until until you see light at theend of the tunnel and hopefully
something gets passed, or youknow, or you know becomes
(15:56):
presenting it.
You know the the american musicfairness act has been many
forms that people have beenpushing for for for many decades
, so hopefully it will pass inthis form.
We'll see, god willing that'sincredible.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Another amazing thing oh, so many amazing things you
do.
Uh, you've also worked withiconic artists like the
cranberries, meatloaf,eagle-eyed cherry, just to name
a few.
From a perspective, I guess,really, as a publisher, what
distinguishes those artists whoachieve longevity from those who
burn out?
I mean, you've seen itfirsthand.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
I didn't work with them as publishers, I worked
with them as management.
What I saw was, especially inMeatloaf, just work ethic.
Um, he worked so hard and um,you know nothing but respect for
(16:49):
him and I.
It breaks my heart thatobviously he passed during COVID
and it breaks my heart thatthat's what he remembered for it
was like, oh, you know that hewas amazing.
He treated me so well and I'llalways have a great amount of
kindness that he and his familyshowed me.
(17:12):
And yeah, we went on tour.
It was, I mean, you know theCranberries.
So what did you do with theCranberries when I was at Left
Bank Management?
I was their day-to-day manager.
That was when I first got there.
I was working on Meatloaf andRichard Marks to an extent,
(17:36):
duran, duran, and then theCranberries joined, joined and
you know you, over time I endedup being um.
I worked in tour marketing.
So I worked across all thedifferent artists there.
So that was like, uh, the BeeGees, john Mellencamp, luther
Vandross, smotley Crue, justevery artist there you got to
(17:59):
work across um, but I stillcarried on being very close with
you know the folks that I didday to day for and you know you
kind of would get in at at sixand you'd leave at midnight or
the early hours and you just youknow it was 24, seven and you
just try to pull all the threadstogether to make their
(18:22):
experience as seamless aspossible.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Lucky them to have you is all I can say.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Working with them is crazy.
They also, you know, I startedworking with them when I was in
my like I was 23, 24.
So you know, they also gave methe ability to learn and I'll
always be grateful to them forthat.
That's cool.
You know, I was birthed withwith knowledge.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I had to learn it.
I actually had kate hyman on uhthe podcast and she brought the
cranberries to denny cordell.
I just, I didn't know that, buta little little yeah, yeah,
well, you know it was.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
It was amazing to watch their evolution.
I mean, you know, just to, tosee them.
I mean, you know, when I firststarted working with them, they
weren't even 21.
I had to go and get the beerfor them and sink it into the
hotel.
You know it was.
You know again, it's just, it'sfun, it's hard work but it's
also great to, you know, to havethose experiences and you know.
(19:27):
But I have to say, over time Ijust got to a point where I just
I can't do this anymore.
Yeah, crazy hours, and that'swhen, just strange timing, and
you know, I ended up pivoting tobecoming a publisher and became
the third US employee at Cobalt.
But it wasn't like I plannedthat, um, it just just worked
out that way and I reallyenjoyed being a publisher for
(19:48):
the years that I have been.
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
You know, I have to say, one of the things I know
you best for and one of yourgreatest strengths, and
something that's touched many ofus is the way that you've built
community here in New York andyour continuous mentorship.
I mean the work you did withNYC3 to strengthen New York's
professional community andyou've also just helped a lot of
emerging professionals.
What inspired you to do allthis community work?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Well, nyc3, which was the New York City creative
community, that really came outof necessity.
Gosh, when was that?
When we?
When did we start that?
I guess it was 2010, ish, wedon't even remember our first
event.
We should have been much betterin a record keeping it was a
(20:37):
great or I loved it.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
There was great organization, yeah, and I was
speakers, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
I mean Linda Lawrence Gritelli.
She was at CSAC at the time.
It was just six of us at first,sitting around a conference
table just bemoaning the factcreators were leaving New York
to go to all these places and Icouldn't blame them, none of us
could of living in New York isnose-bleedingly expensive and
(21:04):
other places were offering themtax credits and all kinds of
shiny objects to throw them away.
And certainly nobody can blamepeople for that.
People have to go where theopportunities are.
But we wanted to at leastremind people that there were
still creatives here, because wewould hear constantly oh,
(21:27):
there's nobody left in New Yorkanymore.
It's like what are you talkingabout?
So we over time, put together adatabase that we shared with
people around the world and belike hey, who you working, who
do you want to work with?
It's like these people are hereand just, you know, built,
build it up over time.
I mean, what was six firstaround a conference table ended
(21:49):
up growing to I don't know 450,nearly 500 professionals in the
industry.
So those were either people whoyou know worked with artists
and creatives.
So that would be creatives andpublisher companies, a&rs, you
(22:09):
know sync folks, you know allkinds of people.
They were just like one stepremoved from the creators
themselves.
So we would do alternate months, so we would do meetings with
just those folks, with a guestspeaker, and then the following
month we would just do a mixerwhere we opened the doors up to
all of the creatives soeverybody could mix and mingle
(22:30):
and get to know each other, andit was just a great way that we
could remind one another likewho was here.
You know, because we did itoften enough.
It's like look, just show up towhatever you can.
It was always like a cash barsituation, um, except for the,
the one that we did during indieweek.
That was a a full-on likeshowcase where we would
(22:51):
highlight different artists andand and that was a lot of work
but a great way in which to putus on the map and people would
really flock to the events.
It was always like a packedhouse and it was great to be
able to do that and to to alsoengage with the artists who were
here and pull them from ourcommunity.
(23:13):
We'd openly throw out toprobably ask it's like who's
here, who should we focus on?
Who are you working on, whoshould we spotlight and try to
share the love in that way.
And in other years we would,you know, have people submit
themselves to be considered andthen we had a local New York A&R
pick out who should have theopportunity, and that worked
(23:34):
really well and, quite honestly,if I hadn't have done that, I
most probably wouldn't be doingthis job now, Because you're
doing a lot of the same kinds ofget togethers, I guess with the
MMF.
Yeah, but now it's nationwide.
I remember people like, oh, wemissed NYC3.
It's like come to these events,what are you talking about?
It's still happening.
We have seven, about to haveeight chapters nationwide.
(23:59):
So we've got LA, New York,Miami, Chicago, Austin, Boston,
Nashville and we're about tolaunch Atlanta this year, and
each of them are at differentplaces.
Obviously, LA and New York arethe most evolved because they
already existed before I gothere and being able to, you know
(24:21):
, work with people in thesedifferent locations I mean, at
first we didn't have people, sowe had to find people to
represent us and then help them.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Well, it was here.
It was just a bit sleepy beforeyou came along.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Yeah, Well, I mean the MMF was here, but I'm
talking about in the localchapters.
Oh yeah, yeah for sure.
So you know, it's great that wenow have bodies and committees
in all of these places, so nowwe can actually do really
meaningful programming forpeople locally as well, because
I think people you know they,they crave community, especially
(24:55):
after the pandemic.
It's always been important, butbeing able to put those events
together where people can justmix and mingle and learn and
share from one another, I meanit's it's, it's where people of
all levels can exist and, um,it's just things that just the
(25:15):
proximity of people, just themagic happens.
People leave it's like, thankyou, this wouldn't have happened
.
And it's like, hey, thank youfor showing up.
You know, it's not like we, we,we match make people.
We just have people in our roomand they kind of do the work
from there, but without theproximity, things wouldn't have
(25:36):
happened without that.
So you know, it's just it'sgreat to be able to bring that
community, uh, where's so needed.
Quite honestly, it's great.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I mean, I've been to a bunch of your events here in
LA and I'm always meeting newpeople.
It's fantastic.
I don't know how you do it all,but it really works great, and
we're lucky to have you puttingall this in.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Well, I'm fortunate to to now be able to oversee it.
I mean, we, we do, we, we workwith them on the programming,
but it's it's, it's, it's onthem, the local chapters to, to
organize it.
I mean, we definitely work withthem and make sure um, you know
it's promoted and you know it'sright, but it's programmed
(26:25):
correctly and it's like, whatelse can we do bring to it?
Pretend?
I mean, you know, sometimes wehave to like work on a little
bit, but you know it's, it'svery much part of the chapter's
um role is to plan one thing perquarter and that can be a mixer
, it can be a panel, it can begoing to a sporting event, it
(26:46):
can be bowling, it doesn'treally matter.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
It's just that experience of just a communal
activity and it's all ages,which is great, oh yeah it's all
ages, it's all levels.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
A lot of often the mix is we don't have to be a
member to to join or toparticipate, just show up, it's
it's.
You know we're.
We're a trade association thatwas established in 1993 and it
was intended purely forprofessional artist managers.
Nina ragawanzi, who's thepresident of both the mmf us,
(27:26):
which is the music managersforum us, is also now president
of the immf, which is theinternational music managers
forum, and when she came in tobe president of the mmf us she
was basically like we gotta let,we gotta open the doors.
We've got to let people who areself-managed artists be part of
this so we can help educatethem and help them on their
(27:47):
journey.
And maybe they'll want to carryon managing themselves or maybe
they'll need a manager.
So you know, it's in ourinterest to help them and give
them the tools to succeed.
I mean, all we can do is givethem the toolkit.
What they choose to do with itis up to them.
(28:09):
And the reality is, as you know,there's no one set journey that
to success.
There's any number of routesand it's really up to the artist
and the manager to kind ofnavigate that hand in hand.
No magic pill to kind ofnavigate that hand in hand?
No magic pill, there is nomagic.
Yeah, people come to us all thetime, you know, expecting us to
(28:30):
be able to wave a wand.
It's like it doesn't work likethat.
You know, it's like you got towork, everybody's got to work.
There is no such thing as anovernight success.
Nobody, you know, when you lookback at everybody, I mean Billie
Eilish was releasing songs onSoundCloud.
Katy Perry was dropped Godknows how many times.
Japper Rowan you know she'sbeen at this for years.
(28:54):
I mean you know it's just 10years.
Yeah, I mean, you know it's,it's just nuts.
But the ones who succeed have,like, a huge amount of work
ethic and you know it's.
Obviously it's not just thatthere is this.
Talent is part of it, but workethic is a huge part of it, as
(29:16):
well, no, it's huge, I can tellyou have seen it up close.
Yeah, and the team you havearound you.
I mean, over time, you know, asyou need to add people because
nobody knows everything and youneed to bring in different
professionals doing differentthings at different times,
whether that's business manager,an attorney, you know.
Obviously a manager, you know.
(29:37):
But beyond that as well, youknow, maybe you need somebody
who specializes in a type ofmarketing or social media or
whatever it is, you know, tryingto identify who those right
people are to bring into yourorbit as well.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
And I and I know I believe there'll be some people,
young people, listening andthey're going to probably wonder
what advice you have for thosepeople looking to build a
lasting career, either you know,as an artist or in the business
itself.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Just, again, hard work as an artist or in the
business itself.
Just again, hard work, buildyour career.
I think we get too many artistswho come to us saying I need a
manager.
It's like, okay, you have sevenfollowers on Spotify or you
look.
It's like, well, what are theymanaging A?
(30:28):
And you know they just don'tjustify it.
And you know, don't disrespect,but you've got to build it.
You've got to be able to havesell shows, you've got to be
able to sell tickets and you'vegot to be able to navigate this
professionally and grow it to apoint because, quite honestly,
if you're selling shows andyou're drawing people in, they
will find you, because promotersand venues you know they talk,
(30:53):
you know we talk with them, youknow all the time and if there's
something they're excited about, they will let us know.
And people try to jump too earlyand it's like you've got to do
the work, you've got to havesomething and you've got to
build something and then, onceyou get to that point, things
will start coming to you and Ithink people are expect to sign
(31:19):
with a manager and they will.
They can then, you know,abdicate responsibility for
their career almost, and it'slike no, you have to understand
what it is you're doing.
You have to, um, you have to dothat work to get yourself to at
least a certain level, and Ithink that's where I see too
many people just get boredreally quickly and you know, the
(31:44):
reality is you put the releaseout, you, you work it.
Uh, you know, hopefully you'retouring, you, you can keep
expanding on your touring routeand keep adding more markets and
increase your footprint and youjust have to keep doing it and
it's a long slog and I thinkpeople, you know they get caught
(32:06):
up in the illusion of itwithout really understanding
what's involved.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
And on the business side, I think you're an
excellent example of someone whojust kind of went for it.
You got a gig and you got a job, you figured out how to make it
work and you just kept goingfrom there by putting in the
time.
And there's another person Iwas talking to on the podcast
and she was saying how she puttogether a music night, her and
(32:32):
another friend, while she hadlike a very lowly job and
because of that she had allthese people coming to the shows
and she was meeting managersand new artists and it just kind
of expanded much, much likeyou're doing.
But you know, for young peoplego, I've tried to get a job, you
know, on the internet and I'mnot getting a response.
You kind of have to create yourown luck really.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
I mean, you know, we've got.
This is really so.
There's this group of us up inWestchester, this is really so.
There's this group of us up inWestchester, so that's where I
live and, um, a few of us have.
This is pre-pandemic.
I guess we've been doing thisfor eight or nine years, maybe
longer.
But basically, like, why are weall meeting up in the city?
We live in Westchester, why arewe meeting out there?
(33:15):
This is ridiculous.
So we put together, know, theWestchester Music Meetup group
and we started with about 40 or50 people that we knew and we're
nearly, we're over 150 peopleat this point.
And again, we just put thingstogether.
We just, you know, pick a venue, we warn the venue.
It's like, are we okay to dothis?
(33:37):
It's cash bar.
It's like are we okay to dothis?
It's cash bar.
And you know, I recently sharedit with the regional liaisons
at the New York RecordingAcademy and I said, look, you
know, I get that you guys areall over the footprint of the
New York chapter and we talklike every quarter.
But you know, I just want tolet you know that we do this.
(33:58):
Any of you are welcome toattend if you so wish.
But this is an example ofsomething you can do in your own
market.
You can put something togetherand build a community, and it's
just an incredible way ofmeeting people that you may have
forgotten, that were in yourbackyard or you didn't know were
in your backyard.
I mean, these are people whomay be up the street from you.
(34:25):
You'd be like, oh my god, noneof this is rocket science.
That's the thing.
It's just like you just gottaput it together and and do it
and then keep doing it and justmake sure there's a cadence to
doing it.
You can't just do it once andthen you know I think that's
what people expect like well, Iput this out.
Why didn't it respond?
It's like, well, because youhave to keep doing it it's.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
It's very true.
You, I mean, it's amazing.
You, you do all.
I don't know how you do allthese things.
Um, you know from your earlydays at Sarm West, with legends
like George Michael, paulMcCartney, what's the shift in
the industry and and what do yousee happening in the future.
What?
What is your you know?
Are you optimistic?
What are you feeling happeningin the future?
What is your you know?
Are you optimistic?
What are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (35:02):
I'd remain optimistic .
I mean, ai is definitelysomething that is threatening
creativity.
I mean the fact that somebodywith zero musical skills is
suddenly able to like create apiece of music, but obviously
it's not theirs.
They don't have any creativity.
They put in some in someprompts, you know, and that's
(35:23):
just being depending on theplatform, is just being stolen
from creatives and that, to me,I find very disturbing.
But I think, when it comes downto it, it has become harder for
creatives to make a living and Ithink that is an issue.
And I think, you know, there'sa lot of people who are for lack
(35:44):
of a better word hobbyists, whowant this to be reality.
And, again, if we can help themmake that step from a hobby to
a career, then that's somethingwe obviously want to try and do.
Obviously, it's not going towork for everybody.
There's a lot of stuff outthere.
There's a lot of stuff outthere.
There's a lot of stuff, youknow, and not all of it is great
(36:05):
stuff, but some of it is, and Ijust pray that the people who
are doing truly extraordinarywork have the stamina and the
thick skin to prevail and keeppushing their career forward,
because you know it is hard, butyou know, the reality is it
(36:26):
really comes down to being ableto sustain yourself and figuring
out the best way to do that.
And definitely it's like doingshows.
Getting in front of people arereally important and I can never
overstate this enough.
Having a mailing list, notInstagram followers, not any
(36:46):
kind of social media followers,that's great, but you cannot
communicate with them directlyand if you cannot do that, you
cannot really sustain yourcareer properly.
You have to be able tocommunicate with these people
directly.
Sustain your career properly,you have to be able to
communicate with these peopledirectly.
So getting them off of thatonto a mailing list is, I think,
a big priority.
For artists, um, we spent thelast 20 years driving our
(37:08):
artists to social media and it'squite honestly, and I'm turning
those companies into billiondollar entities at the expense
of the artists.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
And it's not just artists, it's photographers,
it's authors, it's all arts andjust to be clear, you mean like
really having an email list likethe good old days I'm talking
about email list.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
I'm talking about name number email.
If they want to share theirmailing address, that's fine,
but you know, I don't thinkpeople are.
I mean, look, if people want todo postcard mailers, I think
they're great, but I'm talkingabout being able to email
somebody directly with whatyou're working on.
Hey, we've got this show comingup.
(37:51):
Being able to, like, targetpeople geographically when you
want a show happening, I thinkis, I think is really powerful.
I mean, I never forget I sentthe Dreads and Dolls when I was
at Cobalt and you went to theirshows.
They were so militant abouttheir mailing list.
I mean they would be in thecrowds like, are you on our
(38:12):
mailing list, why not here?
And you know that mailing listwas really built out of Amanda
Palmer's paranoia Like, all ofthis can leave us, our label can
leave, our publisher can leave,our manager can leave,
everything can just implode.
This list is all we have andit's that list that enabled her
to do the first million dollarartist Patreon campaign.
(38:34):
And you know, that's just, Ithink, a lesson for all artists.
I don't care who you are, atwhat level you are, you have to
know who your fans are and youhave to know how to connect with
them and be able to dialoguewith them.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I love this point.
This is great.
This is a really importantpoint.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
I mean, you know just , giving them exclusivity on
things it doesn't.
You know, just don't be theworst boyfriend in the world.
Don't constantly ask, ask, ask,give, give them things that you
know make them feel special,you know, without them.
You know artists are nothingwithout their fans and you have
to be, you have to treat thatwith responsibility and respect.
(39:17):
To be, you have to treat thatwith responsibility and respect.
And, um, you know, maybe it's ademo that it will make the, the
album that you want to sharewith them, or maybe you're doing
an ep, whatever it is, givingthem things that are that are
meaningful or important and, uh,you know, that's again, nothing
(39:39):
, I think is rocket science, butjust being able to uh, empower
yourself to move your careerforward, that that's a really
easily overlooked thing knowyour audience, know your
audience be able to communicatewith them, and this is from like
beginning onwards, every showonwards, don't?
(40:01):
I think people hide behind theirsocial media?
It's like oh, follow myinstagram post.
Fuck that, have a mailing list,go and stand at the merch.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Bring a pad of paper and a pen.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Bring a pad of paper get and make sure that you, when
you you finish, either thatevening or the following day,
get it into an Excel.
It's not complicated, and thenyou can do something like
MailChimp.
There's all kinds of platforms.
We use MailChimp, so I'm mostfluent with them but they've got
(40:34):
a basic level that's free up toa certain amount.
Just start there.
I mean, god willing, you'll getto the point where you pay for
it because you've got enough ata basic level that's free up to
a certain amount.
Just start there.
I mean, god willing, you get apoint where you pay for it
because you've got enough fans.
Then you can justify it.
Um, but just starting there, Imean you know we've been very
cognizant in adding vinyl to ourour membership um discounts
(40:56):
recently.
So we've now got work and we'recitizen vinyl out of ashville,
north carolina, and they giveour members a five percent
discount on on uh, on vinylpressing, which I think is
that's a great way to make moneyquite honestly.
I mean you only need to sell afew of those to to help.
Look, it's not going to covereverything, but it all helps.
When you add all these bits ofincome up, it can make a
(41:18):
difference in the sustainabilityof the career.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
And it's more meaningful than a t-shirt, you
know.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
It is, and I don't know about you, but I used to.
I remember sitting on the floorand pouring over the liner
notes and, and you know, playingthe music and just, you know
that was just, I don't know.
That's kind of missing.
Now you don't have that in adigital way.
You have no idea who made therecord, who mixed it and
(41:45):
mastered it and who were themusicians and who were the
writers, and I just kind ofloved finding all that out and
going that deep dive and reallyjust, I don't know, felt more
connected with music and uh, itreally is.
I think people are doing it moreand more often, but you know,
(42:07):
maybe you do in a really prettyway.
I mean, you can do all kinds offun things with the vinyl color
and and you know, maybe you doan exclusive run of a hundred
and that make it super, superspecial.
And you know, maybe people Idon't know.
However, you know, however youchoose to to get that out there.
But I think, again, makingthings that are special, all
(42:27):
right, but not doing it overlyto a point where it's, oh god,
they've gone another.
Then they're like doingsomething where it's like 20
different colored vinyls and youknow it's just like do it again
.
Treat your fans with respectand dignity, don't be abusive in
the relationship, becausenobody likes that, and you turn
them off quite honestly, quiterightly.
(42:48):
And there are so many artistsand you really want to do it in
a way where you know they're init for the long haul.
I mean, I'm sure you rememberwhen Lady Gaga started out.
She couldn't get arrested.
She was bouncing between labels.
I remember seeing her at theBitter End.
She obviously had the charismaand the talent but just didn't
(43:09):
have the songs.
And then she clicked.
She was working with the rightsongwriters but she was working
with, I think she called them,called them little monsters, and
that was really a street teamand they would go out and they
would rabid for her and theystill you know, I mean, she
still looks after them shelearned.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
She learned the hard way you had to figure it out.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Yeah but there's nothing stopping any artist from
doing that.
Yeah, have your team, you have.
You have your super fans, youhave those people and you again,
it's like send them someposters to put up, or, you know,
give them some something signedthat really is meaningful to
them and you know, again, justdo it in a way that isn't usury
(43:55):
great well, there's so manyfascinating things we could talk
about.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
I wonder if there's anything that I didn't bring up,
that you wanted to say, or anyquestion I didn't ask.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
It's a marathon, it's not a sprint and you know I
think longevity is definitely,you know, important.
So looking after yourself isreally important.
I think self-care you know Iknow there's a lot now about
mental health and you know asthere should be um, but you know
(44:26):
being staying healthy on theroad, or staying healthy is is
important.
So just being able to take careof yourself and your team
members and and your band andeverybody else is important.
Just making sure everybody'sokay and making recognizing in
yourself.
When you're not okay, beingable to take a beat and try and
look after yourself.
(44:47):
Don't, don't overlook your ownhealth because in the long term,
that is what will sustain youand you need to be healthy, yes,
important and and a tough thingto be in in the music industry.
It is, and sometimes you have tosay no, and you know, I think,
there's so much FOMO in thisworld.
(45:09):
I, I've certainly.
I think as I've got older I'vegot better at it.
I I don't really experiencethat to any extent anymore, and
I used to be everything and,ironically, through a health
incident, I had a brainhemorrhage in 2007 that nearly
killed me and I had to rejig myentire way in which I worked.
(45:34):
I mean, the reality is it leftme with essentially what was
stroke.
I was put on a ward with strokevictims and I had to learn to
read, write, walk, talk, and ittook about six months to get
back to any degree of normalityand that was really scary.
But it made me realize thathealth is fragile and you can't
(45:57):
take it for granted.
I think we do take it forgranted, but you know, I, I was
at every show.
I mean, prior to that, I was atmaybe three shows a night,
nearly every night of the week.
I kind of tried to keep, youknow, the weekends to myself.
Just that was my time where Iliterally just slept to recharge
and be ready for the followingweek.
(46:17):
But you know, week, but youknow, through that, through that
scare, it kind of led me.
It's like okay, I've got totake better care of myself and I
got to learn how to do thingsdifferently.
Because the reality was Icouldn't go to shows anymore,
that the um, the scars on myhead from the surgery were just
so sensitive I couldn't bearound live music and couldn't
(46:40):
be for a really long time.
So I had like, well, how am I,how am I going to carry on doing
this?
And I just learned differentthings and took my career in a
different way.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I didn't know you went through that and I'm glad
to have you here today we'reglad to have you here today.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Yeah, glad to be here , but it definitely changed a
lot.
I'm so blessed that I'm I'mable to, to be able to carry on
doing what I I love for a living.
I mean, that's reality.
I think we're blessed if we canwake up every day and do what
we love for a living.
Then you know we're better offthan 99.9 percent of people in
the world, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
And, and you know, thank you so much for for
encouraging our listeners to tostay the course and giving such
great advice and um reallyappreciate it having you here
today and, uh, look forward tohaving you on the next episodes
in the future.
No, problem.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
I mean just quickly.
One last thing.
I think people are so afraid offailure because we're in this
perfect Instagram of the worldand it's like you're going to
fail.
It's okay, I mean it's not, butit's just.
Expectation of perfection isridiculous, and that's how we
learn is by failure, and youknow, I think people have to be
(47:58):
at peace with that as well.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Absolutely Well sage words from Sharon Tapper.
Thank you so much.
You're very welcome.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Thank you Appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
I'd like to thank today's sponsor, heard City, the
premier audio post-productioncompany servicing the
advertising, motion picture andtelevision industries right here
in NYC.
I'd also like to thank Antelloaka XON for singing the she
Creates Noise theme that I wrote.
Thanks for listening to sheCreates Noise.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe, rate and
(48:34):
share.
I want to thank the team hereBlair Reinly, jelena Stavanovic,
emily Wilson and the Master ofEngineering and Grammy-winning
Cooper.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Anderson, We'll see you next time.
We hear her voice.
She creates noise.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.