April 2, 2025 • 33 mins
Leadership isn't what most people think. Many aspiring leaders believe reaching a management position means escaping hard work, but the opposite is true - leadership demands more responsibility and a completely different skill set than individual contribution.
In this foundational episode of the Sherpa Leadership Podcast, Reed and Chase explore the crucial relationship between individual performance and organizational leadership. We uncover the two dangerous "ditches" leaders fall into: becoming the bottleneck by never effectively delegating, or seeking leadership positions without mastering personal excellence first.
McKinsey research reveals leaders who focus on their own performance create cultures that generate 4.2 times better results than those who don't. This isn't surprising when we consider how demonstration drives culture more powerfully than words alone. We challenge the limiting belief that "nobody cares about your business as much as you do" and explore how effective leadership transforms this mindset.
As you climb higher on your leadership journey, your responsibilities shift from tactical execution to strategic vision. This requires developing new habits - reflection time, continuous learning, networking with experienced leaders, and imposing productive structure on newfound freedom. Perhaps most importantly, leadership growth demands abandoning fixed mindset statements that transform skill deficits into rigid identities.
Whether you're an established leader or just beginning your journey, this episode provides the fundamental mindset shifts needed to climb higher in your leadership effectiveness. The path upward is challenging, but with the right approach to personal excellence, you'll create the foundation for lasting organizational impact.
Join us next episode when we interview Mike Monroe, who will share a six-step process for effective delegation to help you grow in your leadership journey.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Usually, the people you lead are not exactly like
you, right, right.
So even the way that you did itsuccessfully, which still works
for you, might not be the exactway that they need someone to
guide them.
So it'll work for them.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You'll hear this just broad statement well, nobody
cares as much about yourbusiness as you do.
That's actually not been myexperience.
Hey everybody, welcome back tothe Sherpa Leadership Podcast.
This is episode one, and we arehere to help you climb higher
(00:42):
in life and leadership.
We're going to be deep divinginto individual performance and
results, which is a foundationalelement of helping you grow
into being a betterorganizational leader.
And, as always, I'm here withmy co-host, chase Williams.
What's up, everybody Glad to behere?
Yes, all right.
So individual performance andresults.
Why are we?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
starting here.
Well, I think, Reid, we wouldboth agree that you know
individual performance andresults is kind of the
cornerstone, or the foundation,if you will, of good leadership
or great leadership, Right?
And what we're really talkingabout is kind of this idea of
self-mastery or finding somelevel of success as an
individual performer before youpursue this long, long climb and
(01:28):
journey of leadership.
Yes, Right, so what are someelements, would you say, of
someone's thinking about?
You know their individualperformance and results.
What does that actually looklike practically?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah.
So I think there's a couple ofthings.
One is, if you think about this,a little bit like a highway,
every highway has a ditch oneither side and of course the
goal is to highway has a ditchon either side and of course the
goal is to not end up either ineither ditch.
And, as you know, in coachingleaders and in navigating this
highway myself, I find thatthere's two different errors
that you can have as a leader.
One is that you have a level, ahigh level of success.
(02:04):
So maybe you're a founder,you're a CEO, right, and you got
where you're going by being aproblem solver, by just getting
stuff done, and now you are thebottleneck in your organization.
And so you've made peace withindividual performance and
results right, it is deep inyour core, but now it's limiting
your capacity when it comes toyou being a leader, right.
And I think in the other ditchthere's somebody who is an
(02:24):
aspiring leader.
They love the idea ofleadership.
You know, patrick Lencioni kindof makes the assertion that
everybody that starts aleadership journey does it with
the wrong motives.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Okay, tell me more.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Well, there's this idea of you know sometimes that,
like a leadership is thisposition and it's this thing,
and you know, and this is thepeople you know, somebody that
people look up to, and all ofthese different things.
Fundamentally, it's a serviceand it's a responsibility.
True, and the idea for somebodywho is maybe a really good
performer is that leadership isa path out of having to do that
(03:01):
type of work.
It's a path out of individualresults and performance, and
they're in for a really rudeawakening right when they find
out that it's actually much,much harder.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So if we have these two ditches right, this like
this founder type that's anincredibly hard worker and has
been working hard and gettingresults for a really long time
but might have a challenge instarting to succeed through
others or delegate certainthings.
The other ditch, as youmentioned, is this person who
has this, um, this fantasy ofwhat leadership is and that it's
(03:33):
somehow going to be easier thanjust doing the work.
But we want to stay on the road.
How does someone do that?
What are some of the practicalthings we want to think about,
or help the help our listenersthink about in terms of
individual performance andresults?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah.
So if you're the, if you're theperson who has mastered
individual performance andresults, then you've you've had
to make peace with this periodof time in your life where you
were in that that crucible ofmastering those particular
skills, and those skills setthis foundation, but now you're
going to have to wrestle withthis idea that I actually have
to build a whole new skillsetand I have to get results out of
(04:08):
a whole new skillset, right?
So what are the kind of things?
You know, I'll pitch it back toyou what are the kind of things
that somebody in a leadershipposition has to perform at Like,
what does that look?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
like I love that question, reid Like, if you
think about the idea thatsomeone who's a really hard
worker and has been doing it fora long time, they're good at
showing up, they're good atdoing the things necessary to
succeed.
Sometimes they're not greatabout even creating cadence with
the people that now they wantto succeed through.
Yeah, so they just kind ofexpect the others that they lead
to show up like them every daywith their boots on to do the
(04:41):
hard work and just get after itRight day with their boots on to
do the hard work and just getafter it right.
Versus what?
Another method of leadingpeople well is creating that
cadence with the other person,whether that's accountability or
checking in to see how thingsare going, helping them remove
roadblocks that might exist forthem.
Honestly, just understandingthat usually the people you lead
are not exactly like you, right, right.
(05:02):
So even the way that you did itsuccessfully, which still works
for you, might not be the exactway that they need someone to
guide them.
So it'll work for them.
Yes, and that's a new skill setfor that kind of hardworking
founder type that just knows howto do it Right, and a good
element of that, or a skill evenis learning how to communicate
(05:22):
well what needs to be done, yeah, and then learning to to
communicate well what needs tobe done and then learning to
guide someone through that what,based on who they are, their
background, the skills theybrought to the table, how far
along they are on their masteryof those skills.
Right, every person's a littlebit different, so those leaders
are really needing to developthis idea of okay, I know how to
(05:42):
do it, but how do I communicate, teach, train, help people over
the roadblocks that theyexperienced?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
so that they can get similar results to what I've
gotten all these years.
Yeah, and there's, there's thisfundamental mindset that I see
a lot of founders uh have andthat is, you know, it's, it's
the whole uh, like I, uh, I hadto, I had to walk, uh 10 miles
uphill, uphill, both ways, inthe snow.
Yeah, sure, Right, and sothere's really there's this
fundamentally ineffectivemindset.
And that is, I had to do it,nobody taught me.
(06:13):
So figure it out.
Yep, the problem is is thisperson hired you to lead them?
Yeah, exactly, which is aresponsibility?
Which is this responsibility?
And you're starting outactually from a fixed mindset
position and that's not going toserve you well, because your
personal leadership is I have togrow in my ability to take and
(06:38):
transfer these skills tosomebody else in an effective
way to be able to help them growand then multiply our efforts.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, you see this play out when you have someone
who's really good at what theydo and they've kind of cycled
through a bunch of people thatthey brought into their world to
try to help them do it, andsometimes they actually get
resigned to this idea that, likeI just can't find anyone who's
willing to work, or I can't findgood help, or, you know, no one
seems to be able to do it asgood as I can.
Right, you can slip into thatthinking and that truly is a
(07:03):
ceiling or a limit on where youcan go as a leader, because
you're you're.
You're just not developing theskills um around helping someone
else succeed at the thing thatyou're already good at.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, so there's a coaching conversation that that
can kind of help break that upand that is asking this question
is that true?
And then the second question isis that a hundred percent true?
If it were a hundred percenttrue, every single leader that
was in a position like yourswould not have other people that
are around them that they areeffectively delegating to and
that are growing their companies, and it is likely that there's
(07:37):
a multiple billion dollarcompany out there that is bigger
than yours, right, like, unlessyou're, you know, like Jeff
Bezos and you're listening tothis.
That'd be cool.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
It would be super cool.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Then the answer is no , it's not 100% true.
And so now you're going to haveto wrestle with the fact that
actually it's you, actually it'syour leadership, or maybe your
lack of growth as a leader.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, there's another thing that happens here and
it's easy to slip into assomeone who knows how to do
something really well and is nowteaching someone else.
There's this idea and we hearit often and no one likes to
hear it, but it's likemicromanagement, right?
It's like, instead of givingsomeone space to learn and space
to develop, you're kind of likehovering over them in every
sense of the word.
Now, in certain aspects of ajob that might be necessary
(08:19):
early on, the trick isidentifying when people need
space to grow into on.
The trick is identifying whenpeople need space to grow into
and and when, uh, they might beable to achieve a similar result
as you in a slightly differentway than the way you did it,
right, right, and so identifyingthose times when you need them
to do it exactly like you showedthem and those times when they
can start to apply their ownbehavioral style, their own DNA,
(08:41):
their own background andskillset and still achieve a
similar or maybe even betterresult yeah, and that really is
the ideal, right?
Speaker 1 (08:49):
It's actually that your ego gets squashed and
somebody else rises up and theyexcel past you, right?
That's the goal For me.
There's been more than a fewtimes of immaturity in my
leadership where I haven'tactually empowered somebody and
given them a step-by-step pathand given them feedback, but
I've actually, you know, I'mtired, I'm exhausted, I don't
(09:11):
want this responsibility, so Ijust throw it on their shoulders
, yeah.
And then I'm surprised, likehow come I just threw 500 pounds
on your back and your and yourlegs buckled?
Obviously you're not talent,right?
That's not good.
And then the other one is likeI give it to you, but not really
.
Yeah, and as soon as I find youdoing anything outside of the
way I would do it, whichactually is probably somewhat
(09:31):
ineffective, I'm going to, I'mgoing to pull that back.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, I've struggled with this along the way in terms
of, like, not communicatingwell some of the basics and
fundamentals of how to succeedat something Right, like I see
this sometimes in my parenting.
I just kind of expect my kids toknow everything I know right,
and I don't know why that is.
It sounds dumb when you say itout loud, but I show up
sometimes that way in leadership.
Instead of understanding that,I have to go all the way back
(09:57):
down to the fundamentals andgive a lot of rationale of why
we do it this way and why that'simportant and how these things
are interconnected.
Right, and it's challengingbecause for someone who
understands something very, very, very well, to explain it in
what feels like an elementaryfashion can actually be hard,
yeah, and yet it might beexactly what that person needs
(10:18):
so that they're they're able tounderstand what the goal is and
how everything's interconnectedand then how they can move
forward.
So it's actually slowing downto speed up rather than just
saying, well, hey, reed, likeyou're here and you should know
everything I know, so let's justget to work right.
That's sometimes the trap wefall into and that's just
usually not as effective.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, you know, one of the one of the limiting
beliefs I think that I hear fromfrom leaders that that are just
these high level individualperformers is, uh, you know
you'll hear this this broadstatement Well, nobody cares as
much about your business as youdo.
That's actually not been myexperience.
Uh, it turns out that wasn't myexperience.
Growing up, my dad was acaretaker and and he genuinely
cared more about the things thatwere under his stewardship than
(11:00):
the owners did.
So I got to see that modeled andI've been in business now for
years with people and I think,gosh, there are times where I'm
about to make a stupid decisionand they'll fight me over it
because they actually care morein that moment than I do.
So it certainly doesn't have tobe that way.
The other thing is there's thisalmost arrogance or egotistical
(11:20):
look at this that, like, peopledon't actually care about their
life, because if they're inbusiness with you, they're
fundamentally growing their life, and a lot of people do care
about that as much as you do,and they see their life and
their goals tied to thisdirection that you guys are
going together.
So it certainly can be true,but it's also not always true.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, and it can be really hard to delegate
responsibility or give upcertain things inside of your
business as a leader when youare actually are really good at
them.
Right, think of it this way,like if you've been doing
something inside of yourbusiness for 20 years, like
there's a there's a really highdegree of certainty that you
have a mastery around that thing.
Yes, and someone else thatexpects you to lead them and you
(12:00):
want to be successful comesinto your business and your
world and they're actuallypretty good at it, but they're
only about 80% as good as youare because you've been doing it
for 20 years.
Yeah, right, well, dan Martellsays 80% done is a hundred
percent awesome.
Yes, but there's that tensionbetween they might not be as
good as you yet, Right.
And yet how can you still givethem, you know, delegation of
(12:22):
authority, empower them to goand be successful and then guide
them to one day being as goodor better than you, if that's
possible?
That's a real friction forsomeone who's kind of maybe
actually pretty good at thething, yeah absolutely, you know
.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
So when we get to our next episode spoiler alert we
interview Mike Monroe andinstead of this binary like I do
or I don't, he has a six partprocess for how to effectively
delegate.
That is just absolutely firefrom somebody who is you, mike
Monroe, and instead of thisbinary like I do or I don't, he
has a six part process for howto effectively delegate.
That is just absolutely firefrom somebody who is outstanding
at individual results andperformance.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I love that so um, I want to now talk about the other
ditch of the road right andthat is kind of as you framed it
up.
It's this person that aspires tobe a leader but maybe hasn't
gone through enough individualperformance and results
themselves because they thinkit's going to be cool.
Or there's just thisaspirational piece to who they
(13:14):
want to become ego, whatever youmay call it Right.
And so they're.
They're trying to ascend into aleadership role before going
through the crucible, beforetaking their licks, if you will,
or having success at a thingfor long enough.
Tell us about that a little bitmore.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, so.
So you have that now, and I'lldo like a little asterisk, and
that is that there's somebodythat's just flat out exhausted,
right, like they've been doingsomething at a high level and
now they, they, they're justlike I'm going to be a leader
because I just don't want to dothis anymore.
Yeah, right, so they both kindof fall into this bucket, yep.
And the challenge, I think, isthat when you look at what are
the most important things inlife, are they things or are
(13:53):
they people?
Right?
My answer is it always comesback to people, sure, and I
would say what is the harderthing?
Is it a thing or is it a person?
It's a person, it's a person.
When I look in the mirror, Ifind myself harder to lead than
anything in my life, right, andso.
So when you get to that placewhere you're just like, hey, I
want to lead people, forwhatever the internal you know,
(14:15):
like you know, makeup is, youare going from something that's
easier, even if it's really hard, to something that's
fundamentally harder, lessmathematical, more emotional and
prone to.
I figured this out yesterdayand I nailed it, and today I
don't have any idea what justhappened and what changed, right
(14:35):
?
Well, what changed is thatperson went to bed, they had bad
pizza, and now they show up asa totally different person and I
have to be able to pivot and dothat as a leader.
So so how do you, uh, how doyou navigate this, this idea of
I'm now stepping into leadershipand uh, and it's.
You know, my hallucination isI'm not.
I don't have to be a performeranymore, I don't have to
(14:57):
actually get results or I don'thave to do the job anymore.
I'm just going to lead.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Well, I want to point out that this idea, uh, is as
old as time, right?
It's biblical even like don'tpoint out the splinter in your
brother's eye if you don't takethe log out of yours, something
like that, it's just easier topoint it out at others than it
is to fix it in your own life,right?
I think that one of thepractical things that you want
to think about is have youdeveloped the habits, right, and
(15:21):
the skills of something thatyou're about to lead someone
else in, right?
Right, because that's going tobe very, very valuable.
And, by the way, if you haven't, people have this ability to
see through that pretty quickly.
They do, yeah, right.
And so, when you think aboutthe habits that you're
developing, you think about theways that you're thinking.
We'll talk a lot about fixedmindset, growth mindset, as two
(15:41):
different ways of thinking.
Those are things that you wantto be developing, not only
before you become a leader, butultimately forever.
Yeah, and I think the otherpractical thing that you want to
think about here and youmentioned it is, if you think
that becoming a leader is goingto be easier, I want you to toss
that to the side.
That's not real.
It's just not real.
It will be fundamentally harder, right?
So if you're, if you're, ifyou're wanting to get away from
(16:04):
doing certain things in yourbusiness that you've done for a
long time, that's actually not abad idea.
But understand it's likeclimbing a ladder, right?
If you let go of one rung, youhave to have a firm grip on the
next rung in order not to falloff the ladder.
So it's a good analogy forleadership you might actually
stop doing something in yourbusiness because you're going to
delegate that to someone else,because you're going to delegate
(16:24):
that to someone else, butunderstand that you're going to
be grabbing on to something elsethat then you'll need to
perform in as the leader, andmore than likely, that thing is
harder than the last thing.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah, I mean, if we even just go back to the Sherpa
analogy, right, the higher youclimb on the mountain, the
thinner the air gets, the harderit is to breathe, the fewer
people can help you.
Right, like, everything getsharder, everything gets gets
more more limited, uh, and, bythe way, everything gets better
in so many ways, right, and justbecause it's such a cool
experience, but it is, it isharder.
(16:57):
So, um, mckinsey and companydid a study and in the study,
what they found was that leadersthat focused on being somebody
who was uh, was dedicated totheir own performance and
results.
They created a culture that wasdedicated to individual
performance and results, and thestudy found that they were.
(17:17):
They created 4.2 times theresults compared to other
leaders that did not focus onmeaning, track uh and actively
grow in uh and and and uh andset goals around their own
results.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, think about this from a household
perspective, right?
If I want to teach my kids that,let's say, a good habit would
be reading books, right, as anexample.
But all they ever see me do issitting around on the couch
scrolling through my phone,right, right, like I'm not
modeling for them.
What is a good habit?
Right?
Well, the same thing inbusiness If I'm the leader and
I'm showing up in a way where Idon't have something that I'm
(17:55):
focused on, something that I'mfocused on being good at,
something that's deliveringvalue to the people and the
organization on a daily basis.
If they don't get to see that,what are the chances that they
show up and do the same thingsin their area of expertise or
their silo in the business?
However you want to think aboutthat and become successful at
it, it really becomes a cultureof demonstration, right, like a
(18:17):
do as I do, not, as I say, whichis the opposite of how we tend
to think about it, right, and soI think that you're right about
that.
It's like, okay, if we knowthat building a culture of
performance right, a culture ofresults is important, then what
days was the day after I handedover the reins of my company to
(18:38):
a new person as the CEO.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Because, up until that point, I knew what a
productive day looked like.
I knew what leading andproducing side by side looked
like, and I knew all thetensions and all the hardships
of that and I passed the batonfinally right.
After many years of, of, likeyou know, navigating this, I
woke up the next day and I hadno idea what a productive day
was going to look like.
I woke up the next day and I'mlike I don't know what to do.
(19:17):
Right, because everything thatneeded to be driven through
individual performance andresults for me at this new level
in my company was unknown to meand I hadn't prepared for it.
I hadn't even.
It's kind of like parentingadult kids, right, like nobody
ever talked to us about that andall of a sudden you blink and
you have adult kids.
Like I don't know what to do.
Yep, right, am I done?
Parenting?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Oh, definitely not, definitely not.
So how do you, how did younavigate that and how would you,
how would you encourage someoneto navigate that if they've,
they've, they've, they've,they're about ready to grab onto
the next rung and leadershipand they're not sure exactly
what that looks like?
What are some ways you canthink about that to determine
what it is?
Speaker 1 (19:52):
The first thing that I would say is uh, who are the
people that have gone therebefore?
Who's?
Who's the Sherpa?
Great Right, so I'm going tosit down with that person.
I'm going to hire that person.
Secondly, I'm actually going torewrap my head around this idea
of I have a whole new set oftasks and duties and
(20:15):
responsibilities.
I still have a job.
I need to figure out what itmeans to win in my new job.
So it's going to befundamentally a who.
It's going to be a relationshipthat's going to help you
navigate that.
But then, secondarily, I thinkit's going to be a mindset that
I didn't just arrive.
You're not dead, you didn'tarrive.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, and I think another way of looking at that
same thing is, if you lookaround and you've kind of
delegated your jobs or yourtasks or most of the ones you're
used to, the way you can thinkabout that is what should I be
doing now that makes everyoneelse in the organization's job
easier or better or creates moreopportunity for them, and along
with a great guide that'll helpyou start to identify the
(20:54):
things that you actually stillneed to do If you're not real
clear on those, think about itthat way what can I be doing now
at this rung of the ladder thatmakes it better for everyone
else in this organization?
That'll probably quickly leadyou to some, to some things that
you can be focused on, and thengoing back to this idea of
performing well in those thingsagain, leading the way by
(21:15):
demonstration.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah.
So one of the ways I thinkabout this is almost like a
theater of operations.
If you're in the military right, you have.
You have troops on the ground.
You have maybe you have maybeplanes that are.
They are flying at a 10,000foot level.
You have other planes that areat like maybe 30,000 foot level
that oversee the entire theaterof operations, and then you have
a general sitting in thePentagon that's overseeing not
(21:38):
just that theater of operations,but multiples.
They all have to have a certainlevel of removal from being in
the trenches, and it's not thatthey don't have a job, it's not
that it's not hard.
It's that when you have a gun inyour hand and you're in the
trenches, your perspective isnot what it needs to be to be
able to make sure thateverybody's winning and nobody's
(21:59):
dying.
And this looks different A lotof times for leaders.
One of the things that you'dsee like a CEO get knocked
around on social media for is oh, that person's always golfing
or they're always this or that.
The reality is that person isprobably blogging an obsessive
amount of hours, but a part ofwhat they have to do is to be
able to clear their brain and beable to zoom way, way, way out
(22:25):
and it looks like a luxury, butit's something that you have to
learn how to do at higher levelsof leadership, because if you
can't think strategically andyour brain is always inside the
business and tactical, then youactually are not effective yeah,
going back to the ladderanalogy and I hate to overuse it
, but with every rung that youclimb, you can actually see
farther out.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Right, and now it's your responsibility to see
farther out.
To this, not not just becauseyou're higher and you can.
If you're not looking out maybeyou're looking five years and
the person below you is onlylooking at the next year's goals
but you have to be looking atindustry changes or roadblocks
that could potentially show upor new areas of opportunity that
(23:02):
you would want to be thinkingabout five or ten years ahead.
That's actually the new job.
It is and, believe it or not,that's not an easy job.
That's a job that carries aneven heavier weight of
responsibility.
So if you think of it like thatand you have the right guide,
you can identify those keythings that are now your new
area of individual results andperformance right.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, you know, one of the interesting things I
think, uh, kind of in just inthe world of leadership, is
there's maybe a theory that'seasy to latch onto, and that is,
if you grow in your leadershipuh capabilities, if you grow in
your leadership skills, you cango from industry to industry to
industry and be effective.
And it turns out the researchsays that that's um, uh, it's
(23:44):
not that it's not entirely true,but um, it's, um, it's not that
it's not entirely true, but um,it's, it's highly compromised,
you know.
And and the reason is, is that,uh, I think there's two reasons
.
One is that you lack empathyfor people who are actually
doing the job, because you'venot done it, you haven't done it
right and it doesn't.
It's just like a football.
You know, professional footballcoach like you may not have
been the best player, but, man,you've been hit a few times.
(24:05):
That's right.
When that kid gets hit and he'slaying down for a little bit of
time, you know what that feltlike, like you know what it
means to get your bell rungRight.
And and the other thing is, isthat the higher you go, the more
responsibility you have tounderstand the nuances of the
industry, the competitivemarketplace and all of these
(24:25):
things that are really reallyhard to know if you actually
haven't spent any time masteringthat industry.
It's also easy to get fleeced.
It's easy to not be able toknow what performance metrics
people need to be able to hitand what their capacity should
be inside of that business.
So there can be this idea oflike I want to get to a place of
leadership and then I can go dowhatever because I'm bored with
(24:46):
this vertical.
I'm sure it doesn't mean itcan't transfer, it absolutely
can.
But, um, I would say one of thebiggest things for growing up
in leadership and and inwhatever vertical you're in, is
this level of maturity.
That's, making peace withboredom.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, that's very true.
I experienced this um in inpart of my leadership journey in
my career.
I actually was in leadership ina fortune 100 company big
tobacco actually and I was inleadership of some different
sales teams.
And ultimately, when Itransitioned into real estate
many years ago now, um I, Inoticed very quickly there was
some key differences in leadingpeople in these two industries.
(25:24):
Right, you go from corporateAmerica where you know
everyone's W-2 salary sort ofyou know folks that work for you
, meaning that you pay them todo a job.
Sure, right Now, all of asudden you're in real estate
where everyone's an independentcontractor and actually in a lot
of ways they pay you.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
So it was very different, and the way that you
had to go about leadingindependent contractors versus
W-2 employees a lot ofsimilarities.
By the way that you had to goabout leading independent
contractors versus W2 employeesa lot of similarities.
By the way, good leadership isgood leadership.
Yeah, but there were some keydifferences and I think that's
similar to what you said, whichis like there's this idea that
if you have a level of expertise, level of mastery, level of
depth of understanding in yourindustry, you can be more
(26:03):
strategic.
You can understand what thedecisions that you make or
others that you lead make, aregoing to impact in other areas
of the business.
You can see a little fartherbecause you understand the
dynamics, some of the dynamicsof the industry, um.
So I think that's that'simportant for people to to
understand and be aware of, interms of um, the value that that
brings in their leadershipjourney.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
I love it.
So if you were going to givesomebody like two or three
things that like, hey,whatever's next in your
leadership journey, these aresome things that might be areas
that you have to grow in, like,if you want to continue down
this road of being able to getindividual results, what would
(26:44):
you say?
What are the things thatsomebody maybe needs to make
peace with?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I think some of the things actually are things that
maybe are behind the scenes, soto speak, or actually maybe
don't even show up exactlyduring the workday.
These are like the personalhabits that you build even
outside of work.
To go to the next level ofleadership, right, I want you to
think of things like time toreflect.
You mentioned that sometimesyou get to a certain level of
(27:09):
success in the business just byputting your boots on every day
and getting after it.
Right, and that's a good thing,that's that's that's required
as well.
But you haven't built habitaround setting time aside for
thinking ahead, planning fartherinto the future than maybe
you've had to in the past.
That would be an example, evenjust self-reflection, of some of
the lessons that you'relearning as you go along in your
(27:31):
leadership, or reflectingaround the people that you're
serving and what their needs maybe.
Right, this could look likejournaling, something like that,
creating space in your life, inyour world, to develop these
good habits.
Another one is learning itself,right.
What is it that you're reading?
What is it that you'relistening to?
What is it that you'reconsuming?
That's helping you understandyour new area of responsibility
(27:55):
when you have mass mastery atthe next rung down, right, but
now you're kind of a newbie onthis rung.
You have a lot to learn now.
You got to go back to school,absolutely Right, and you
mentioned earlier, I think, oneof the ways of thinking is that
others have gone before you.
So one of the things you seereally great leaders do that
continue to ascend in theirlevel of leadership is they
(28:16):
continue to look for people thatare ahead of them on the
journey right, willing to sharesome of their experience, and
they just are really goodnetworkers in terms of, hey, I'm
not the only person that's hadto ascend to this next level in
an organization, in an industry,et cetera.
So you'll watch these peopleand they spend more time having
(28:37):
good conversations with otherpeople that they can get value
from and, of course, deliveringvalue back the other way.
Yeah, that's a habit that trulyis a habit, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
It also makes me think.
I just kind of listened to youtalk.
It makes me think about theability and willingness to
self-imposed in self-imposedstructure, right, because at
some levels that somebody elsetells you here's what you will
do and here's how you will do itand here's when you will be at
work, and now all of a suddenyou might have enough freedom
that you can become veryineffective, and so somebody
(29:08):
who's going to grow inleadership is going to be able
to lead themselves and actuallybe their own boss at a very high
level, because if not, thatfreedom can kind of like erode
itself.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, I always say freedom and flexibility are a
double-edged sword.
Yes, we all want it, butsometimes when we get it, we're
not very effective with it.
Yeah, right, you see thishappen in real estate.
We're both in real estate aspart of one of our businesses,
and you see, people get intoreal estate because they want
freedom and flexibility, right,yeah, they've been in in maybe
(29:41):
the W2 world and they've had ajob and a boss for a lot of
years and they're like, oh mygosh, I just want more freedom
and flexibility, which in and ofitself is not a bad thing,
right.
And then all of a sudden, theycan't get out of bed before 10
o'clock, right.
Or they, they have thisschedule that's all over the
place and they loseeffectiveness at doing the
things necessary to succeed.
(30:02):
Yes, right, and it's because noone's making them or telling
them.
Yeah, it doesn't mean that theycan't get there, it means that
they were so used to that Nowthey have freedom and
flexibility and they've notlearned how to self-regulate.
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
And or they've not brought people into their world
that can help them learn how todo that in a new space in their
life.
Yes, right, absolutely, uh,kind of.
The last thing that I'mthinking about around this is um
, is really what maybe you can'tafford anymore as a mindset,
and it comes, it comes down inmy mind to issues of identity.
All right, if I just say I'mnot a goal oriented person, I'm
not a blank, I'm not a blank.
Um, okay, but you just turned alack of skillset into an
(30:50):
identity which makes it moreconcrete, harder to break down
and and much more risky to toyour future.
Yeah, right, so if you're aleader and you hear yourself
saying, uh, saying things likelike, I'm not this way and I'm
not this way and I'm not thisway, there's an element of that
that may be tiptoes around this,uh, this idea of self-awareness
.
But, man, it becomes identityreally quick and if you start
(31:12):
identifying with things that arenot effective, you will
ultimately become ineffective.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yeah, we see this a lot with small business owners.
Right, they're that, someonewho's like a founder type who
founded a small business.
They're really effective, maybeat sales or acquiring customers
and taking great care of them,and then ultimately they bring
other people into their world,should they choose to lead
through being successful insales, and again they start
climbing the ladder ofleadership.
But they'll say things likethis I'm not really a numbers
(31:39):
person, so I don't look at my Pand L or right Like.
Like that's just confusing tome and and ultimately that's
going to be problematic for acouple of reasons.
One is, if you're not a numbersperson and you don't manage the
financials in your business,you're going to have real
problems, that that, that youdon't want Right, right, and so,
even if you're not comfortablewith those skills, you can learn
them.
You can read a book about them,you can hire a coach to guide
(32:01):
you through them.
You can do both Right so youcan become that person.
That's a growth mindset.
The other way it becomesproblematic is if you're saying
or thinking I'm not a numbersperson and now you're leading
salespeople in your organizationthat say I'm not really a
salesperson or they have thatfixed mindset I don't like
tracking my sales stuff?
Yeah, I don't.
I don't really do follow up,right, then then that's going to
(32:22):
be a problem on both sides foryou, right.
And again, if you want todemonstrate this idea of
individual performance andresults and change your mindset
around it, you you'll besurprised at how it helps you
get someone else, or helpsomeone else, out of maybe their
fixed mindset, cause we're allsubject to it, we all slip into
it on occasion.
Absolutely, that awareness andthen those skills of moving out
(32:46):
of that quicker and quicker andquicker, is a real tool in terms
of the leadership journey.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Absolutely.
I just love this and I thinkthat this idea of really
wrapping your head around beingsomebody who can get individual
performance and results, not getstuck there and not have the
wrong mindset around whatleadership is is a great
foundation for us to launch intoall of these other elements of
what we think it looks like tobe a great organizational leader
.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Couldn't agree more.
It truly is the foundation ofyour leadership journey.
Love it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
All right guys.
Thanks for joining us forepisode one.
We have a fantastic episode twowith our good friend, mike
Monroe, who's a high-levelleader, does an incredible job,
producing individual results andperformance, and he's going to
go over the six different stepsof delegation, along with
incredible stories and a lot ofdifferent stuff that's going to
help you in your leadershipjourney.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Thanks for listening to the Sherpa Leadership Podcast
.
If today's episode inspired you, please, please, please
subscribe, leave a review, shareit with another leader that you
know.
There's additional tools andresources available at
sherpaconsultinggroupcom.
Remember, leadership is ajourney and every step you take
matters.
Keep climbing.
We'll see you next time.
Usually, the people you lead are not exactly like
you, right, right.
So even the way that you did itsuccessfully, which still works
for you, might not be the exactway that they need someone to
guide them.
So it'll work for them.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You'll hear this just broad statement well, nobody
cares as much about yourbusiness as you do.
That's actually not been myexperience.
Hey everybody, welcome back tothe Sherpa Leadership Podcast.
This is episode one, and we arehere to help you climb higher
(00:42):
in life and leadership.
We're going to be deep divinginto individual performance and
results, which is a foundationalelement of helping you grow
into being a betterorganizational leader.
And, as always, I'm here withmy co-host, chase Williams.
What's up, everybody Glad to behere?
Yes, all right.
So individual performance andresults.
Why are we?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
starting here.
Well, I think, Reid, we wouldboth agree that you know
individual performance andresults is kind of the
cornerstone, or the foundation,if you will, of good leadership
or great leadership, Right?
And what we're really talkingabout is kind of this idea of
self-mastery or finding somelevel of success as an
individual performer before youpursue this long, long climb and
(01:28):
journey of leadership.
Yes, Right, so what are someelements, would you say, of
someone's thinking about?
You know their individualperformance and results.
What does that actually looklike practically?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah.
So I think there's a couple ofthings.
One is, if you think about this,a little bit like a highway,
every highway has a ditch oneither side and of course the
goal is to highway has a ditchon either side and of course the
goal is to not end up either ineither ditch.
And, as you know, in coachingleaders and in navigating this
highway myself, I find thatthere's two different errors
that you can have as a leader.
One is that you have a level, ahigh level of success.
(02:04):
So maybe you're a founder,you're a CEO, right, and you got
where you're going by being aproblem solver, by just getting
stuff done, and now you are thebottleneck in your organization.
And so you've made peace withindividual performance and
results right, it is deep inyour core, but now it's limiting
your capacity when it comes toyou being a leader, right.
And I think in the other ditchthere's somebody who is an
(02:24):
aspiring leader.
They love the idea ofleadership.
You know, patrick Lencioni kindof makes the assertion that
everybody that starts aleadership journey does it with
the wrong motives.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Okay, tell me more.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Well, there's this idea of you know sometimes that,
like a leadership is thisposition and it's this thing,
and you know, and this is thepeople you know, somebody that
people look up to, and all ofthese different things.
Fundamentally, it's a serviceand it's a responsibility.
True, and the idea for somebodywho is maybe a really good
performer is that leadership isa path out of having to do that
(03:01):
type of work.
It's a path out of individualresults and performance, and
they're in for a really rudeawakening right when they find
out that it's actually much,much harder.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So if we have these two ditches right, this like
this founder type that's anincredibly hard worker and has
been working hard and gettingresults for a really long time
but might have a challenge instarting to succeed through
others or delegate certainthings.
The other ditch, as youmentioned, is this person who
has this, um, this fantasy ofwhat leadership is and that it's
(03:33):
somehow going to be easier thanjust doing the work.
But we want to stay on the road.
How does someone do that?
What are some of the practicalthings we want to think about,
or help the help our listenersthink about in terms of
individual performance andresults?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah.
So if you're the, if you're theperson who has mastered
individual performance andresults, then you've you've had
to make peace with this periodof time in your life where you
were in that that crucible ofmastering those particular
skills, and those skills setthis foundation, but now you're
going to have to wrestle withthis idea that I actually have
to build a whole new skillsetand I have to get results out of
(04:08):
a whole new skillset, right?
So what are the kind of things?
You know, I'll pitch it back toyou what are the kind of things
that somebody in a leadershipposition has to perform at Like,
what does that look?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
like I love that question, reid Like, if you
think about the idea thatsomeone who's a really hard
worker and has been doing it fora long time, they're good at
showing up, they're good atdoing the things necessary to
succeed.
Sometimes they're not greatabout even creating cadence with
the people that now they wantto succeed through.
Yeah, so they just kind ofexpect the others that they lead
to show up like them every daywith their boots on to do the
(04:41):
hard work and just get after itRight day with their boots on to
do the hard work and just getafter it right.
Versus what?
Another method of leadingpeople well is creating that
cadence with the other person,whether that's accountability or
checking in to see how thingsare going, helping them remove
roadblocks that might exist forthem.
Honestly, just understandingthat usually the people you lead
are not exactly like you, right, right.
(05:02):
So even the way that you did itsuccessfully, which still works
for you, might not be the exactway that they need someone to
guide them.
So it'll work for them.
Yes, and that's a new skill setfor that kind of hardworking
founder type that just knows howto do it Right, and a good
element of that, or a skill evenis learning how to communicate
(05:22):
well what needs to be done, yeah, and then learning to to
communicate well what needs tobe done and then learning to
guide someone through that what,based on who they are, their
background, the skills theybrought to the table, how far
along they are on their masteryof those skills.
Right, every person's a littlebit different, so those leaders
are really needing to developthis idea of okay, I know how to
(05:42):
do it, but how do I communicate, teach, train, help people over
the roadblocks that theyexperienced?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
so that they can get similar results to what I've
gotten all these years.
Yeah, and there's, there's thisfundamental mindset that I see
a lot of founders uh have andthat is, you know, it's, it's
the whole uh, like I, uh, I hadto, I had to walk, uh 10 miles
uphill, uphill, both ways, inthe snow.
Yeah, sure, Right, and sothere's really there's this
fundamentally ineffectivemindset.
And that is, I had to do it,nobody taught me.
(06:13):
So figure it out.
Yep, the problem is is thisperson hired you to lead them?
Yeah, exactly, which is aresponsibility?
Which is this responsibility?
And you're starting outactually from a fixed mindset
position and that's not going toserve you well, because your
personal leadership is I have togrow in my ability to take and
(06:38):
transfer these skills tosomebody else in an effective
way to be able to help them growand then multiply our efforts.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, you see this play out when you have someone
who's really good at what theydo and they've kind of cycled
through a bunch of people thatthey brought into their world to
try to help them do it, andsometimes they actually get
resigned to this idea that, likeI just can't find anyone who's
willing to work, or I can't findgood help, or, you know, no one
seems to be able to do it asgood as I can.
Right, you can slip into thatthinking and that truly is a
(07:03):
ceiling or a limit on where youcan go as a leader, because
you're you're.
You're just not developing theskills um around helping someone
else succeed at the thing thatyou're already good at.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, so there's a coaching conversation that that
can kind of help break that upand that is asking this question
is that true?
And then the second question isis that a hundred percent true?
If it were a hundred percenttrue, every single leader that
was in a position like yourswould not have other people that
are around them that they areeffectively delegating to and
that are growing their companies, and it is likely that there's
(07:37):
a multiple billion dollarcompany out there that is bigger
than yours, right, like, unlessyou're, you know, like Jeff
Bezos and you're listening tothis.
That'd be cool.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
It would be super cool.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Then the answer is no , it's not 100% true.
And so now you're going to haveto wrestle with the fact that
actually it's you, actually it'syour leadership, or maybe your
lack of growth as a leader.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, there's another thing that happens here and
it's easy to slip into assomeone who knows how to do
something really well and is nowteaching someone else.
There's this idea and we hearit often and no one likes to
hear it, but it's likemicromanagement, right?
It's like, instead of givingsomeone space to learn and space
to develop, you're kind of likehovering over them in every
sense of the word.
Now, in certain aspects of ajob that might be necessary
(08:19):
early on, the trick isidentifying when people need
space to grow into on.
The trick is identifying whenpeople need space to grow into
and and when, uh, they might beable to achieve a similar result
as you in a slightly differentway than the way you did it,
right, right, and so identifyingthose times when you need them
to do it exactly like you showedthem and those times when they
can start to apply their ownbehavioral style, their own DNA,
(08:41):
their own background andskillset and still achieve a
similar or maybe even betterresult yeah, and that really is
the ideal, right?
Speaker 1 (08:49):
It's actually that your ego gets squashed and
somebody else rises up and theyexcel past you, right?
That's the goal For me.
There's been more than a fewtimes of immaturity in my
leadership where I haven'tactually empowered somebody and
given them a step-by-step pathand given them feedback, but
I've actually, you know, I'mtired, I'm exhausted, I don't
(09:11):
want this responsibility, so Ijust throw it on their shoulders
, yeah.
And then I'm surprised, likehow come I just threw 500 pounds
on your back and your and yourlegs buckled?
Obviously you're not talent,right?
That's not good.
And then the other one is likeI give it to you, but not really
.
Yeah, and as soon as I find youdoing anything outside of the
way I would do it, whichactually is probably somewhat
(09:31):
ineffective, I'm going to, I'mgoing to pull that back.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, I've struggled with this along the way in terms
of, like, not communicatingwell some of the basics and
fundamentals of how to succeedat something Right, like I see
this sometimes in my parenting.
I just kind of expect my kids toknow everything I know right,
and I don't know why that is.
It sounds dumb when you say itout loud, but I show up
sometimes that way in leadership.
Instead of understanding that,I have to go all the way back
(09:57):
down to the fundamentals andgive a lot of rationale of why
we do it this way and why that'simportant and how these things
are interconnected.
Right, and it's challengingbecause for someone who
understands something very, very, very well, to explain it in
what feels like an elementaryfashion can actually be hard,
yeah, and yet it might beexactly what that person needs
(10:18):
so that they're they're able tounderstand what the goal is and
how everything's interconnectedand then how they can move
forward.
So it's actually slowing downto speed up rather than just
saying, well, hey, reed, likeyou're here and you should know
everything I know, so let's justget to work right.
That's sometimes the trap wefall into and that's just
usually not as effective.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, you know, one of the one of the limiting
beliefs I think that I hear fromfrom leaders that that are just
these high level individualperformers is, uh, you know
you'll hear this this broadstatement Well, nobody cares as
much about your business as youdo.
That's actually not been myexperience.
Uh, it turns out that wasn't myexperience.
Growing up, my dad was acaretaker and and he genuinely
cared more about the things thatwere under his stewardship than
(11:00):
the owners did.
So I got to see that modeled andI've been in business now for
years with people and I think,gosh, there are times where I'm
about to make a stupid decisionand they'll fight me over it
because they actually care morein that moment than I do.
So it certainly doesn't have tobe that way.
The other thing is there's thisalmost arrogance or egotistical
(11:20):
look at this that, like, peopledon't actually care about their
life, because if they're inbusiness with you, they're
fundamentally growing their life, and a lot of people do care
about that as much as you do,and they see their life and
their goals tied to thisdirection that you guys are
going together.
So it certainly can be true,but it's also not always true.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, and it can be really hard to delegate
responsibility or give upcertain things inside of your
business as a leader when youare actually are really good at
them.
Right, think of it this way,like if you've been doing
something inside of yourbusiness for 20 years, like
there's a there's a really highdegree of certainty that you
have a mastery around that thing.
Yes, and someone else thatexpects you to lead them and you
(12:00):
want to be successful comesinto your business and your
world and they're actuallypretty good at it, but they're
only about 80% as good as youare because you've been doing it
for 20 years.
Yeah, right, well, dan Martellsays 80% done is a hundred
percent awesome.
Yes, but there's that tensionbetween they might not be as
good as you yet, Right.
And yet how can you still givethem, you know, delegation of
(12:22):
authority, empower them to goand be successful and then guide
them to one day being as goodor better than you, if that's
possible?
That's a real friction forsomeone who's kind of maybe
actually pretty good at thething, yeah absolutely, you know
.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
So when we get to our next episode spoiler alert we
interview Mike Monroe andinstead of this binary like I do
or I don't, he has a six partprocess for how to effectively
delegate.
That is just absolutely firefrom somebody who is you, mike
Monroe, and instead of thisbinary like I do or I don't, he
has a six part process for howto effectively delegate.
That is just absolutely firefrom somebody who is outstanding
at individual results andperformance.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I love that so um, I want to now talk about the other
ditch of the road right andthat is kind of as you framed it
up.
It's this person that aspires tobe a leader but maybe hasn't
gone through enough individualperformance and results
themselves because they thinkit's going to be cool.
Or there's just thisaspirational piece to who they
(13:14):
want to become ego, whatever youmay call it Right.
And so they're.
They're trying to ascend into aleadership role before going
through the crucible, beforetaking their licks, if you will,
or having success at a thingfor long enough.
Tell us about that a little bitmore.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, so.
So you have that now, and I'lldo like a little asterisk, and
that is that there's somebodythat's just flat out exhausted,
right, like they've been doingsomething at a high level and
now they, they, they're justlike I'm going to be a leader
because I just don't want to dothis anymore.
Yeah, right, so they both kindof fall into this bucket, yep.
And the challenge, I think, isthat when you look at what are
the most important things inlife, are they things or are
(13:53):
they people?
Right?
My answer is it always comesback to people, sure, and I
would say what is the harderthing?
Is it a thing or is it a person?
It's a person, it's a person.
When I look in the mirror, Ifind myself harder to lead than
anything in my life, right, andso.
So when you get to that placewhere you're just like, hey, I
want to lead people, forwhatever the internal you know,
(14:15):
like you know, makeup is, youare going from something that's
easier, even if it's really hard, to something that's
fundamentally harder, lessmathematical, more emotional and
prone to.
I figured this out yesterdayand I nailed it, and today I
don't have any idea what justhappened and what changed, right
(14:35):
?
Well, what changed is thatperson went to bed, they had bad
pizza, and now they show up asa totally different person and I
have to be able to pivot and dothat as a leader.
So so how do you, uh, how doyou navigate this, this idea of
I'm now stepping into leadershipand uh, and it's.
You know, my hallucination isI'm not.
I don't have to be a performeranymore, I don't have to
(14:57):
actually get results or I don'thave to do the job anymore.
I'm just going to lead.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Well, I want to point out that this idea, uh, is as
old as time, right?
It's biblical even like don'tpoint out the splinter in your
brother's eye if you don't takethe log out of yours, something
like that, it's just easier topoint it out at others than it
is to fix it in your own life,right?
I think that one of thepractical things that you want
to think about is have youdeveloped the habits, right, and
(15:21):
the skills of something thatyou're about to lead someone
else in, right?
Right, because that's going tobe very, very valuable.
And, by the way, if you haven't, people have this ability to
see through that pretty quickly.
They do, yeah, right.
And so, when you think aboutthe habits that you're
developing, you think about theways that you're thinking.
We'll talk a lot about fixedmindset, growth mindset, as two
(15:41):
different ways of thinking.
Those are things that you wantto be developing, not only
before you become a leader, butultimately forever.
Yeah, and I think the otherpractical thing that you want to
think about here and youmentioned it is, if you think
that becoming a leader is goingto be easier, I want you to toss
that to the side.
That's not real.
It's just not real.
It will be fundamentally harder, right?
So if you're, if you're, ifyou're wanting to get away from
(16:04):
doing certain things in yourbusiness that you've done for a
long time, that's actually not abad idea.
But understand it's likeclimbing a ladder, right?
If you let go of one rung, youhave to have a firm grip on the
next rung in order not to falloff the ladder.
So it's a good analogy forleadership you might actually
stop doing something in yourbusiness because you're going to
delegate that to someone else,because you're going to delegate
(16:24):
that to someone else, butunderstand that you're going to
be grabbing on to something elsethat then you'll need to
perform in as the leader, andmore than likely, that thing is
harder than the last thing.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah, I mean, if we even just go back to the Sherpa
analogy, right, the higher youclimb on the mountain, the
thinner the air gets, the harderit is to breathe, the fewer
people can help you.
Right, like, everything getsharder, everything gets gets
more more limited, uh, and, bythe way, everything gets better
in so many ways, right, and justbecause it's such a cool
experience, but it is, it isharder.
(16:57):
So, um, mckinsey and companydid a study and in the study,
what they found was that leadersthat focused on being somebody
who was uh, was dedicated totheir own performance and
results.
They created a culture that wasdedicated to individual
performance and results, and thestudy found that they were.
(17:17):
They created 4.2 times theresults compared to other
leaders that did not focus onmeaning, track uh and actively
grow in uh and and and uh andset goals around their own
results.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, think about this from a household
perspective, right?
If I want to teach my kids that,let's say, a good habit would
be reading books, right, as anexample.
But all they ever see me do issitting around on the couch
scrolling through my phone,right, right, like I'm not
modeling for them.
What is a good habit?
Right?
Well, the same thing inbusiness If I'm the leader and
I'm showing up in a way where Idon't have something that I'm
(17:55):
focused on, something that I'mfocused on being good at,
something that's deliveringvalue to the people and the
organization on a daily basis.
If they don't get to see that,what are the chances that they
show up and do the same thingsin their area of expertise or
their silo in the business?
However you want to think aboutthat and become successful at
it, it really becomes a cultureof demonstration, right, like a
(18:17):
do as I do, not, as I say, whichis the opposite of how we tend
to think about it, right, and soI think that you're right about
that.
It's like, okay, if we knowthat building a culture of
performance right, a culture ofresults is important, then what
days was the day after I handedover the reins of my company to
(18:38):
a new person as the CEO.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Because, up until that point, I knew what a
productive day looked like.
I knew what leading andproducing side by side looked
like, and I knew all thetensions and all the hardships
of that and I passed the batonfinally right.
After many years of, of, likeyou know, navigating this, I
woke up the next day and I hadno idea what a productive day
was going to look like.
I woke up the next day and I'mlike I don't know what to do.
(19:17):
Right, because everything thatneeded to be driven through
individual performance andresults for me at this new level
in my company was unknown to meand I hadn't prepared for it.
I hadn't even.
It's kind of like parentingadult kids, right, like nobody
ever talked to us about that andall of a sudden you blink and
you have adult kids.
Like I don't know what to do.
Yep, right, am I done?
Parenting?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Oh, definitely not, definitely not.
So how do you, how did younavigate that and how would you,
how would you encourage someoneto navigate that if they've,
they've, they've, they've,they're about ready to grab onto
the next rung and leadershipand they're not sure exactly
what that looks like?
What are some ways you canthink about that to determine
what it is?
Speaker 1 (19:52):
The first thing that I would say is uh, who are the
people that have gone therebefore?
Who's?
Who's the Sherpa?
Great Right, so I'm going tosit down with that person.
I'm going to hire that person.
Secondly, I'm actually going torewrap my head around this idea
of I have a whole new set oftasks and duties and
(20:15):
responsibilities.
I still have a job.
I need to figure out what itmeans to win in my new job.
So it's going to befundamentally a who.
It's going to be a relationshipthat's going to help you
navigate that.
But then, secondarily, I thinkit's going to be a mindset that
I didn't just arrive.
You're not dead, you didn'tarrive.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, and I think another way of looking at that
same thing is, if you lookaround and you've kind of
delegated your jobs or yourtasks or most of the ones you're
used to, the way you can thinkabout that is what should I be
doing now that makes everyoneelse in the organization's job
easier or better or creates moreopportunity for them, and along
with a great guide that'll helpyou start to identify the
(20:54):
things that you actually stillneed to do If you're not real
clear on those, think about itthat way what can I be doing now
at this rung of the ladder thatmakes it better for everyone
else in this organization?
That'll probably quickly leadyou to some, to some things that
you can be focused on, and thengoing back to this idea of
performing well in those thingsagain, leading the way by
(21:15):
demonstration.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah.
So one of the ways I thinkabout this is almost like a
theater of operations.
If you're in the military right, you have.
You have troops on the ground.
You have maybe you have maybeplanes that are.
They are flying at a 10,000foot level.
You have other planes that areat like maybe 30,000 foot level
that oversee the entire theaterof operations, and then you have
a general sitting in thePentagon that's overseeing not
(21:38):
just that theater of operations,but multiples.
They all have to have a certainlevel of removal from being in
the trenches, and it's not thatthey don't have a job, it's not
that it's not hard.
It's that when you have a gun inyour hand and you're in the
trenches, your perspective isnot what it needs to be to be
able to make sure thateverybody's winning and nobody's
(21:59):
dying.
And this looks different A lotof times for leaders.
One of the things that you'dsee like a CEO get knocked
around on social media for is oh, that person's always golfing
or they're always this or that.
The reality is that person isprobably blogging an obsessive
amount of hours, but a part ofwhat they have to do is to be
able to clear their brain and beable to zoom way, way, way out
(22:25):
and it looks like a luxury, butit's something that you have to
learn how to do at higher levelsof leadership, because if you
can't think strategically andyour brain is always inside the
business and tactical, then youactually are not effective yeah,
going back to the ladderanalogy and I hate to overuse it
, but with every rung that youclimb, you can actually see
farther out.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Right, and now it's your responsibility to see
farther out.
To this, not not just becauseyou're higher and you can.
If you're not looking out maybeyou're looking five years and
the person below you is onlylooking at the next year's goals
but you have to be looking atindustry changes or roadblocks
that could potentially show upor new areas of opportunity that
(23:02):
you would want to be thinkingabout five or ten years ahead.
That's actually the new job.
It is and, believe it or not,that's not an easy job.
That's a job that carries aneven heavier weight of
responsibility.
So if you think of it like thatand you have the right guide,
you can identify those keythings that are now your new
area of individual results andperformance right.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, you know, one of the interesting things I
think, uh, kind of in just inthe world of leadership, is
there's maybe a theory that'seasy to latch onto, and that is,
if you grow in your leadershipuh capabilities, if you grow in
your leadership skills, you cango from industry to industry to
industry and be effective.
And it turns out the researchsays that that's um, uh, it's
(23:44):
not that it's not entirely true,but um, it's, um, it's not that
it's not entirely true, but um,it's, it's highly compromised,
you know.
And and the reason is, is that,uh, I think there's two reasons
.
One is that you lack empathyfor people who are actually
doing the job, because you'venot done it, you haven't done it
right and it doesn't.
It's just like a football.
You know, professional footballcoach like you may not have
been the best player, but, man,you've been hit a few times.
(24:05):
That's right.
When that kid gets hit and he'slaying down for a little bit of
time, you know what that feltlike, like you know what it
means to get your bell rungRight.
And and the other thing is, isthat the higher you go, the more
responsibility you have tounderstand the nuances of the
industry, the competitivemarketplace and all of these
(24:25):
things that are really reallyhard to know if you actually
haven't spent any time masteringthat industry.
It's also easy to get fleeced.
It's easy to not be able toknow what performance metrics
people need to be able to hitand what their capacity should
be inside of that business.
So there can be this idea oflike I want to get to a place of
leadership and then I can go dowhatever because I'm bored with
(24:46):
this vertical.
I'm sure it doesn't mean itcan't transfer, it absolutely
can.
But, um, I would say one of thebiggest things for growing up
in leadership and and inwhatever vertical you're in, is
this level of maturity.
That's, making peace withboredom.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, that's very true.
I experienced this um in inpart of my leadership journey in
my career.
I actually was in leadership ina fortune 100 company big
tobacco actually and I was inleadership of some different
sales teams.
And ultimately, when Itransitioned into real estate
many years ago now, um I, Inoticed very quickly there was
some key differences in leadingpeople in these two industries.
(25:24):
Right, you go from corporateAmerica where you know
everyone's W-2 salary sort ofyou know folks that work for you
, meaning that you pay them todo a job.
Sure, right Now, all of asudden you're in real estate
where everyone's an independentcontractor and actually in a lot
of ways they pay you.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
So it was very different, and the way that you
had to go about leadingindependent contractors versus
W-2 employees a lot ofsimilarities.
By the way that you had to goabout leading independent
contractors versus W2 employeesa lot of similarities.
By the way, good leadership isgood leadership.
Yeah, but there were some keydifferences and I think that's
similar to what you said, whichis like there's this idea that
if you have a level of expertise, level of mastery, level of
depth of understanding in yourindustry, you can be more
(26:03):
strategic.
You can understand what thedecisions that you make or
others that you lead make, aregoing to impact in other areas
of the business.
You can see a little fartherbecause you understand the
dynamics, some of the dynamicsof the industry, um.
So I think that's that'simportant for people to to
understand and be aware of, interms of um, the value that that
brings in their leadershipjourney.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
I love it.
So if you were going to givesomebody like two or three
things that like, hey,whatever's next in your
leadership journey, these aresome things that might be areas
that you have to grow in, like,if you want to continue down
this road of being able to getindividual results, what would
(26:44):
you say?
What are the things thatsomebody maybe needs to make
peace with?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I think some of the things actually are things that
maybe are behind the scenes, soto speak, or actually maybe
don't even show up exactlyduring the workday.
These are like the personalhabits that you build even
outside of work.
To go to the next level ofleadership, right, I want you to
think of things like time toreflect.
You mentioned that sometimesyou get to a certain level of
(27:09):
success in the business just byputting your boots on every day
and getting after it.
Right, and that's a good thing,that's that's that's required
as well.
But you haven't built habitaround setting time aside for
thinking ahead, planning fartherinto the future than maybe
you've had to in the past.
That would be an example, evenjust self-reflection, of some of
the lessons that you'relearning as you go along in your
(27:31):
leadership, or reflectingaround the people that you're
serving and what their needs maybe.
Right, this could look likejournaling, something like that,
creating space in your life, inyour world, to develop these
good habits.
Another one is learning itself,right.
What is it that you're reading?
What is it that you'relistening to?
What is it that you'reconsuming?
That's helping you understandyour new area of responsibility
(27:55):
when you have mass mastery atthe next rung down, right, but
now you're kind of a newbie onthis rung.
You have a lot to learn now.
You got to go back to school,absolutely Right, and you
mentioned earlier, I think, oneof the ways of thinking is that
others have gone before you.
So one of the things you seereally great leaders do that
continue to ascend in theirlevel of leadership is they
(28:16):
continue to look for people thatare ahead of them on the
journey right, willing to sharesome of their experience, and
they just are really goodnetworkers in terms of, hey, I'm
not the only person that's hadto ascend to this next level in
an organization, in an industry,et cetera.
So you'll watch these peopleand they spend more time having
(28:37):
good conversations with otherpeople that they can get value
from and, of course, deliveringvalue back the other way.
Yeah, that's a habit that trulyis a habit, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
It also makes me think.
I just kind of listened to youtalk.
It makes me think about theability and willingness to
self-imposed in self-imposedstructure, right, because at
some levels that somebody elsetells you here's what you will
do and here's how you will do itand here's when you will be at
work, and now all of a suddenyou might have enough freedom
that you can become veryineffective, and so somebody
(29:08):
who's going to grow inleadership is going to be able
to lead themselves and actuallybe their own boss at a very high
level, because if not, thatfreedom can kind of like erode
itself.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, I always say freedom and flexibility are a
double-edged sword.
Yes, we all want it, butsometimes when we get it, we're
not very effective with it.
Yeah, right, you see thishappen in real estate.
We're both in real estate aspart of one of our businesses,
and you see, people get intoreal estate because they want
freedom and flexibility, right,yeah, they've been in in maybe
(29:41):
the W2 world and they've had ajob and a boss for a lot of
years and they're like, oh mygosh, I just want more freedom
and flexibility, which in and ofitself is not a bad thing,
right.
And then all of a sudden, theycan't get out of bed before 10
o'clock, right.
Or they, they have thisschedule that's all over the
place and they loseeffectiveness at doing the
things necessary to succeed.
(30:02):
Yes, right, and it's because noone's making them or telling
them.
Yeah, it doesn't mean that theycan't get there, it means that
they were so used to that Nowthey have freedom and
flexibility and they've notlearned how to self-regulate.
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
And or they've not brought people into their world
that can help them learn how todo that in a new space in their
life.
Yes, right, absolutely, uh,kind of.
The last thing that I'mthinking about around this is um
, is really what maybe you can'tafford anymore as a mindset,
and it comes, it comes down inmy mind to issues of identity.
All right, if I just say I'mnot a goal oriented person, I'm
not a blank, I'm not a blank.
Um, okay, but you just turned alack of skillset into an
(30:50):
identity which makes it moreconcrete, harder to break down
and and much more risky to toyour future.
Yeah, right, so if you're aleader and you hear yourself
saying, uh, saying things likelike, I'm not this way and I'm
not this way and I'm not thisway, there's an element of that
that may be tiptoes around this,uh, this idea of self-awareness
.
But, man, it becomes identityreally quick and if you start
(31:12):
identifying with things that arenot effective, you will
ultimately become ineffective.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yeah, we see this a lot with small business owners.
Right, they're that, someonewho's like a founder type who
founded a small business.
They're really effective, maybeat sales or acquiring customers
and taking great care of them,and then ultimately they bring
other people into their world,should they choose to lead
through being successful insales, and again they start
climbing the ladder ofleadership.
But they'll say things likethis I'm not really a numbers
(31:39):
person, so I don't look at my Pand L or right Like.
Like that's just confusing tome and and ultimately that's
going to be problematic for acouple of reasons.
One is, if you're not a numbersperson and you don't manage the
financials in your business,you're going to have real
problems, that that, that youdon't want Right, right, and so,
even if you're not comfortablewith those skills, you can learn
them.
You can read a book about them,you can hire a coach to guide
(32:01):
you through them.
You can do both Right so youcan become that person.
That's a growth mindset.
The other way it becomesproblematic is if you're saying
or thinking I'm not a numbersperson and now you're leading
salespeople in your organizationthat say I'm not really a
salesperson or they have thatfixed mindset I don't like
tracking my sales stuff?
Yeah, I don't.
I don't really do follow up,right, then then that's going to
(32:22):
be a problem on both sides foryou, right.
And again, if you want todemonstrate this idea of
individual performance andresults and change your mindset
around it, you you'll besurprised at how it helps you
get someone else, or helpsomeone else, out of maybe their
fixed mindset, cause we're allsubject to it, we all slip into
it on occasion.
Absolutely, that awareness andthen those skills of moving out
(32:46):
of that quicker and quicker andquicker, is a real tool in terms
of the leadership journey.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Absolutely.
I just love this and I thinkthat this idea of really
wrapping your head around beingsomebody who can get individual
performance and results, not getstuck there and not have the
wrong mindset around whatleadership is is a great
foundation for us to launch intoall of these other elements of
what we think it looks like tobe a great organizational leader
.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Couldn't agree more.
It truly is the foundation ofyour leadership journey.
Love it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
All right guys.
Thanks for joining us forepisode one.
We have a fantastic episode twowith our good friend, mike
Monroe, who's a high-levelleader, does an incredible job,
producing individual results andperformance, and he's going to
go over the six different stepsof delegation, along with
incredible stories and a lot ofdifferent stuff that's going to
help you in your leadershipjourney.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Thanks for listening to the Sherpa Leadership Podcast
.
If today's episode inspired you, please, please, please
subscribe, leave a review, shareit with another leader that you
know.
There's additional tools andresources available at
sherpaconsultinggroupcom.
Remember, leadership is ajourney and every step you take
matters.
Keep climbing.
We'll see you next time.
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