July 2, 2025 • 24 mins
Leadership seldom begins with confidence and clarity. For Dan Shields, lead pastor at Valley Real Life, it started with resistance. "I was what's called the reluctant leader," he shares, describing how leadership opportunities kept finding him despite his protests. This compelling conversation explores how sometimes our strongest resistances point toward our deepest callings.
Dan's journey began unexpectedly in kindergarten when he organized a kickball game, prompting his teacher to identify leadership qualities he couldn't yet see in himself. Though raised by a pastor father who modeled servant leadership by prioritizing Jesus first, family second, and ministry third, Dan initially declared, "I'm never going to be a pastor." Yet the pattern continued—opportunities to lead kept emerging, and others consistently saw potential in him that he resisted acknowledging.
The transformative moment came when 18-year-old Dan, "a white kid from the suburbs of Seattle," found himself leading a youth ministry in East Los Angeles with zero training. This baptism-by-fire experience forced him to become intensely teachable, drawing wisdom from professors, pastors, and books while gathering fellow college students to serve underprivileged Hispanic youth. Through this experience, Dan discovered how vision creates community when it helps people see that "their life has deep meaning and purpose that can create a ripple effect for generations."
Perhaps Dan's most practical insight is his observation that "what you celebrate, people emulate." By consistently highlighting wins aligned with vision—like weekly baptism celebrations—organizations help everyone understand what success looks like. This intentional repetition isn't boring; it's the foundation of organizational clarity. While methods should adapt to changing contexts, the core message must remain consistent.
Dan emphasizes that authentic leadership requires genuine belief: "If you don't really buy into the vision, it's not in here, it's not who you are, then you're going to find not too long down the line that why is it that I don't have other followers?" His story offers hope to reluctant leaders everywhere—sometimes the path we resist most leads to our greatest purpose.
Ready to embrace your potential as a leader? Subscribe to the Sherpa Leadership Podcast for more insights on climbing higher in life and leadership.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
I was what's called the reluctant leader.
Okay, Because as the pastor'skid, especially if you're in a
smaller church, there is amicroscope on you and they think
well, because you're thepastor's kid, you need to lead.
And I didn't want to lead andyet I kept being pulled into
opportunities to lead.
And so if you've got guys thatare reluctant in leadership or
(00:27):
don't feel like they should orcould lead, it's interesting the
empowerment of other people whobegin to speak truth into your
life, even at a young age, tosay I see in you either what you
may not see in yourself or whatyou don't want to experience in
yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
You're listening to the Sherpa Leadership Podcast,
your guide to climbing higher inlife and leadership.
I'm Reid Moore and, alongsideChase Williams, we're here to
help you break through obstacles, scale your potential and lead
with greater clarity and purpose.
(01:06):
Leaders, welcome to the sherpaleadership podcast.
I'm your host, reed moore,along with my buddy, chase
williams, and we have anexciting guest for you today.
As always, we love for you tolike, subscribe and share this
post with another leader to helpthem climb higher in life and
leadership.
As always, you can go to sherpaconsulting groupcom for all the
goodies and you get to ourpodcast that way as well.
So, chase, what do we got going?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
today.
Well, we have a very specialguest for everyone today, and
this is actually someone thatyou and I have been lucky enough
to be led by here at our localchurch Valley, real Life and so
Dan Shields, lead pastor.
So, dan, tell us a little bitabout kind of your journey into
leadership, whether that was prebeing a pastor, that was the
starting point of it.
Give us a little backgroundinto how you became a leader,
(01:49):
the backstory, the backstory.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Well, I think my first experience of leadership
probably happened when I was inkindergarten.
Of all places, when they divideup on recess, you know who's
supposed to do what.
Nobody was doing anything andwe're supposed to play a little
kickball, and so I just steppedforward and said all right,
here's what we're going to do.
And it was only then that theteacher pulled me aside and said
(02:12):
hey, danny, we think thatyou're supposed to be a leader.
And I was like well, why?
Well, because you did this.
And I was like I'm a five yearsold, you know, at the time, and
so I distinctly remember that.
I remember also dad modeling.
My dad was a pastor as well,and he modeled what it meant to
be a servant leader.
(02:32):
What does it look like to serveyour family and to serve your
kids?
People ask me and I don't knowabout you guys, but in my
industry, in my area, boundariesare always an issue, and so
people are always asking hey,pastor, we need help, can you
meet with us?
Can you come?
It's nine o'clock at night, it'son a Saturday, it's a Sunday
afternoon and, unfortunately,you can sacrifice your family,
and what my dad modeled for usis that Jesus was going to be
(02:53):
first, the family was going tobe second and the church and the
work was third, and that kindof servant leadership in the
home actually encouraged me tofollow in his footsteps.
So he modeled by how he livedand how he prioritized me.
That made me want to say Iactually want to do that with my
life.
That's a big deal.
(03:13):
So that you know, that's just acouple of little things that
kind of come to mind in terms ofjust leadership lesson stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
So it started with a kickball.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Right, learned a lot from your dad, that's right.
Right, like, tell us about kindof those early years of
becoming a leader inside of thechurch, like how what did that
look like from a trainingperspective and from additional
lessons in the, you know, on topof what you got from your dad?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Well, if I'm going to be honest, I was what's called
the reluctant leader.
Okay, because as the pastor'skid especially if you're in a
smaller church, there is amicroscope on you and they think
well, because you're thepastor's kid, you need to lead.
And I didn't want to lead.
And yet I kept being pulledinto opportunities to lead.
So, whether I'm in middleschool or high school, the youth
(03:56):
pastor saying, hey, danny, canyou actually step up and lead
this?
And I would say I really don'twant to.
He's like I really think youshould.
And so I would continuallyreluctantly step into these
opportunities.
And so if you got guys that arereluctant in leadership or don't
feel like they should or couldlead, it's interesting the
empowerment of other people whobegin to speak truth into your
(04:17):
life, even at a young age, tosay I see in you either what you
may not see in yourself or whatyou don't want to experience in
yourself.
I told my dad when I was 15 or16, I'm never going to be a
pastor.
I don't ever want to do whatyou do.
I just never want to do it.
And what God was doing in mylife was that he was kind of
nudging me through reluctance,that sometimes the very thing
(04:38):
we're most against gives us anindication of maybe a direction
we're supposed to follow, and Ibelieve that's not just in
Christian faith, I think that'sin all walks of life.
You can see it with your kids,you can see it with your
coworkers, you can see it withyour neighbors.
That sometimes, when you see anemotional response to something
, that's an indicator for me inmy own life that there's a
(04:59):
leadership lesson or there'ssomething that I should learn,
grow in or press into intosomebody else's life or into my
own, that there's somethingthere that's greater than what's
being perceived.
And so I found myself morereluctantly being pushed in
these things than finallyembracing them.
You know, on things like sports, you know, being captains of
different teams or going on amission trip, you know, and
(05:21):
serving in different places Tillfinally I just surrendered to
this.
All right, I guess I'm supposedto be a leader.
And now what does it mean?
How can I embrace that?
And then going into college asan 18 year old just saying I'm
going to embrace this path, I'mgoing to embrace this direction,
that I feel like that I'msupposed to go on?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Man, that's amazing.
So one of the things I loveabout that is a few episodes ago
we talked about kind of notintending or not wanting to be a
hollow leader, right.
So that's like self-leadership,leading in the family and all
of that, and there'sconsequences if you don't do
that Right.
And then there's, of course, alot of value that's provided
when you do like operate thatway.
That's right.
(05:58):
So at your early age, with yourdad modeling that for you, did
he continue to model that foryou, and was that something that
you continued to see around youas you grew in your leadership?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, as I got into college, my dad became more the
resource reference leader thanthe.
Listen to me.
I'm going to tell you I'm goingto model and do what I do.
So he knew, based on my wiringand personality, that if he
continued to remain more thedomineering or the I'm going to
encourage you to head in thisdirection, he would have lost me
(06:32):
in terms of the influence in mylife.
I needed more the dad and thesupport and the question asker
than I needed somebody todictate or direct my life.
So then it became moreprofessors in college.
It became other pastors.
It became books I was reading.
It became other people I wasjust learning from and I just
(06:53):
began to unknowingly juststarting to pull different
pieces of them because I wasthrust into a leadership
position that I had no businessbeing involved in.
So when I was 18 years old, Iwas asked to be a youth pastor,
with zero training andexperience, in East Los Angeles.
And here I am, a white kid fromthe suburbs of Seattle, that my
(07:16):
cross-cultural experience wasour.
A third of our church wasFilipino.
So I actually got a C inSpanish 101.
I nothing to do with it, andyet I've been given this
opportunity and I could justsense that God wanted me to lead
in East Los Angeles.
While going to school inFullerton and driving 30 minutes
(07:36):
out and you're saying here'sthe keys go do it.
Sometimes the best leadership isyou got to be thrown into the
deep end of the pool and that'smy personality, like throw me in
a situation where I can'tdepend on me.
I actually have to learn fromothers and I'm going to be the
most coachable.
I'm going to be listening, I'mgoing to be reading, I'm going
(07:56):
to be just soaking it all inbecause I'm in a leadership
position.
And because I'm in a leadershipposition, I have to learn.
And so then I put myself intoother classes upper level
classes, even in college, to tryto learn from other people who
were much further along than Iwas, and gathering a bunch of
other college students with mewho thought we could go change
(08:17):
the world and be like hey, let'sgo do this together.
So I got 15 or 16 of 18 and 19year olds to drive out 30
minutes every single week on aWednesday and then again on a
Sunday to work withunderprivileged Hispanic kids in
East Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
It was crazy, but it was one of the awesomest thing
you know that I've probablyexperienced in my life, because
I knew we were supposed to dothis, didn't know what I was
supposed to do and had myleadership lead just went like
just crazy.
Yeah, because I was just giventhe opportunity, and I think
sometimes that's what we miss iswe're not giving people
opportunities to jump into thosekinds of situations and
(08:52):
experience failure, but havepeople come alongside and say
you got this, I believe in you,and so, from professors to
different pastors, to differentpeople, they were instrumental
for me.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I love it.
So you talk about like you talkabout this opportunity to lead
right and changing the worldright, like my hallucination is
that someone had some visionaround why that was important
and who it could impact, and youmentioned attracting other
college students into working inthis community.
(09:22):
What was it about that vision?
What was it about that goal youmight even call it or that was
so attractive to others, and howdid you experience starting to
use this idea of vision to movepeople in one direction?
Speaker 1 (09:39):
That's interesting.
You're going to make me thinkyou know and go back.
What was it back then?
I think the greatest impact forpeople when it comes to vision
is helping them to see thattheir life has deep meaning and
purpose that can create a rippleeffect for generations or lives
to come.
So when I'm an 18-year-old andworking with other college
(10:02):
students, the vision pitch washey guys, I've never done this
before, you've never done thisbefore, but what could be, and
imagine if and can you considerthat your life, although you're
in college to be a elementaryteacher, psychology teacher,
you're going to go into thebusiness world?
(10:23):
I mean, all those differenttypes of people went to our
college it wasn't just those inministry and all these people to
say those are all great things.
But there's a unique season andopportunity we have right now
with working with some kids whodon't have great home lives Most
of you came from good ones whodon't have some education
experience which you have andare in need, and you have the
(10:45):
time, opportunity andavailability to just give this
much.
But it can make this much inthe life of a student, in the
life of somebody who's only twoor three years younger than you
are and for some reason theywanted to be a part of that and
I think the greater the peoplewho stayed on the longest was.
They wanted to be a part of usdoing something together.
(11:06):
The idea of me going out bymyself, not interested, but the
idea of here's five, six, seven,now 10, now 15, we're going to
get to go out and do thistogether and the stories we're
going to be able to sharetogether and the journey we're
going to go on together.
I think people are drawn tothat and I didn't know that that
was vision.
I just saw the opportunity, Ithink, for me, just because my
(11:28):
faith is so important to me.
That's what I felt Jesus wasdoing.
From a book standpoint, it wasright about the time.
Uh, the resource, thepurpose-driven life was coming
out by Rick Warren and the firstthree words of that
purpose-driven, which is an youcould say it's a vision driven
as well, but purpose-driven isit's not about you, and I can't
(11:50):
tell you how many people I'verun into who've read that book
and just said, huh, this wholeworld it's not about you.
And when you make it aboutothers and you invite others on
the team and make it aboutothers, it indirectly, does
become about you because of theimpact that is happening in your
life, as you're impacting otherpeople together as a team, and
(12:11):
that's what I saw happen withthese crazy 18 to 22 year olds.
You know for those five yearsthat we were doing it together.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I love it.
So, so, obviously theconversation today is around
this idea of seeing in shape inthe future, and the shorthand
for that is vision.
There's a few things, justobserving your leadership, that
I've just I have just encouragedme and helped me in my
leadership.
Number one is I've been able tosee that teachability and
coachability.
When we first started coming tothe church, just hearing you
(12:39):
speak and watching you lead, I'mlike I could see like, oh,
these are the books that he'sreading and he's being
intentional and those thingsover there that aren't total
chaos.
That's hard to do.
That's intentional leadership,right?
Because people are?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, especially volunteers.
You know employees.
You got a little bit of adangle, you know, of a check
behind it, but yeah, volunteersare tough.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah, so just watching that it was so helpful
and so like safe for me, I guessmight be the way of saying
under your leadership.
The other one was I want to diginto this is vision.
There's a level of requirementaround vision that I'm not very
good at and that is visionrequires not going off of vision
or not diverting or not seeingshiny things or getting uh,
(13:22):
diluted in in focus, which meanssaying no, a lot yes.
And the third one is the factthat that, um, that like let's
go here together that thatvision piece has been amazing.
So I guess those last two likehow do you keep it on the rails.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
How do you keep vision on the rails?
How do you keep vision on therails and how do you continue to
inspire vision even when it'shard?
It has to be received and thenowned and then lived.
If I can receive what thevision is, if I can see it, if I
can understand it, then if Ican own it, then you've got
someone who's on the team withyou and then they begin to live
(14:05):
it.
And so for us, we said allright, here's the vision, which
is a preferred picture of thefuture, which is reaching the
world for Jesus, one person at atime.
That has never changed.
I didn't even come up with it.
I inherited that and I'm likeokay, I can, I can carry that
because that can be language forme.
And so, as we reach anddisciple people, we're like
(14:26):
here's a process, and then wetry to help people understand.
Here's your part to play in theprocess of accomplishing the
vision.
And the one thing that is soundersold when it comes to how
do you keep, when you say, howdo you keep that at the
forefront what you celebrate,people emulate.
So what you celebrate, peopleaspire to.
(14:47):
So what you're celebrating,people are saying that is
success.
That is what I'm shooting for.
There's a reason you go to afootball or sporting event and
everybody cheers at the sametime.
How do they know?
Because when they first walkedin as a little kid who didn't
know what the heck was going on,when somebody put a ball in the
hoop and people cheered, thatkid all of a sudden says oh,
(15:11):
that's success, that's whatwe're supposed to do.
Hey, our team won, that'ssuccess.
Well's what we're supposed todo.
Hey, our team won, that'ssuccess.
Well, how do I know I'm winning?
How do I know I'm on the rightpath?
How do I know?
Well, what you're celebrating,people emulate, they copy, and
so for us.
We're saying how do we makesure that we celebrate the
preferred picture of the futureas we're going towards that
(15:32):
future.
So in our church, if we're hereto reach the world for Jesus,
one person at a time, you'llnotice and you guys have
experienced.
There's a reason why wecelebrate baptisms every single
week, right, and then all of asudden, people are clapping in
service and they don't even knowwhy.
They come into our church and,like everybody else, is clapping
.
Why are we clapping?
Because this person gotbaptized.
Well, why is that important?
(15:53):
And, as they're part of it,they're already experiencing
what we value as one measure ofsuccess and they don't even
realize it.
So when we highlight, when weemphasize so you guys have been
a part is every week we'retrying to find a celebration
story, a win story that ourcongregation, our people and our
leaders every time I send outan email, an update of what's
(16:15):
going on with it always is wherewe're going and celebrating the
process that we've got to sofar and we celebrate people like
yes, and they're invigoratedagain and they're excited again
and then they realize and hereand then I've got to be clear
here's how you played a part inhelping that happen.
You played a part because youprayed for the person you played
(16:36):
a part.
Because you gave you played apart.
Because you prayed for theperson you prayed a part.
Because you gave you pray a part, because you invited you pray
to play it apart, because andall of a sudden, I'm sitting
there going oh, I'm a part, Imade a difference in the life of
somebody else, and because Imade a difference, I'm part of
what God's doing around here.
And so the more you celebratethose things that you say are
accomplishing a vision, the morepeople latch onto that and all
(16:57):
of a sudden they're like oh,I've heard it, I now own it and
now I begin to live it.
Yeah, because you continue torepeat it differently and
differently, in different ways,on a regular basis so repetition
requires there's.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
There's this big thing in there that that I want
to know like were you born thisway or did you learn this?
Repetition requires consistency, and consistency is not
accidental, might be a way ofsaying that.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Intentional, it has to be super intentional, in fact
, almost boring, and I think Ijust learned it I don't know
which book or which podcast, butit just resonated to say, yeah,
the organizations, because Iwas studying business and other
guys like you, guys that aredoing incredible things.
You know they're out there andlike who are the winning
organizations?
(17:39):
And you look at some of thelarger, you know like the
Chick-fil-A's of the world, andyou're just like, well, what
makes them?
They're boring, they're notchanging.
I mean, wow, look at, theyadded barbecue sauce this month.
You know, and it's like this isamazing, you know, but that's
not the driver of success whenit comes to their employees,
that's not the driver of successwhen it comes to their owners
of the corporations and for theloyal customers that continue to
(18:01):
come in.
They're boring, but they'rereally, really consistent.
And in the consistency theyrebrand and reframe and redo,
but they continue to celebrateand continue to push on the
vision through specific,different steps.
That doesn't deviate.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, it's so interesting because in the
entrepreneurial space the ideaof vision is sexy, it's neat,
it's fun.
The idea of boring andrepetition doesn't seem like
it's actually the underwritingfactor, right, but it absolutely
is.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well, that's what I want the listeners to hear is a
lot of the pieces that you'resharing have actually been
systematized into the DNA andhow you run the organization the
church in this case.
Right, it's like, oh, we tell asuccess story, we celebrate
baptisms every week, right?
And so it's not systematizingvision in a sterile way, it's
(18:53):
systematizing in a consistentway so that it never starts to
drift, it never starts to leak.
People never wonder why doesthis matter?
Why does that matter and that'swhat I really want some of our
listeners to hear is like youcan make it new and exciting,
maybe on how you say it, but youcan also structure a lot of it
to make sure that you're notdrifting.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, I think one of the things.
But the method should change ona regular basis.
So, when it comes to vision,your message should never change
.
This is who you are, this iswhere you're going Now, how you
present it, when you present it,where you present it, that
(19:33):
should change all the time, infact.
If it doesn't, you turnsomething that's consistent into
boring and stale.
And when you reach that level,then you see organizations, you
see churches, you see, all of asudden it just begins to fall
because all we've just beensaying the same thing over and
over.
You have to continue to do itjust a little, not not do it
differently, but you have topresent it, you know, slightly
(19:55):
differently.
New times, new ages, newtechnology, new generation, you
know that continues to come up.
In fact, one of the things thatalways hit me, I think,
probably when I was younger, Ihad a pastor that told me one
time.
He said you know, it's not yourjob to come up with vision.
I was like what are you talkingabout?
He goes it's your job to readand understand culture and then
(20:20):
understand what vision should beplayed out.
And I was like what do you mean?
So in our context, it's not myjob to come up with vision.
It's my job to recognize if I'ma new entrepreneur and say the
reason the apples and the uh,the different churches out there
and the Sonys and the differentthings that you know got
started is that they just didn'tsay we're just going to do what
(20:40):
everybody's always done.
They recognize what's going on.
Then they come up with vision.
Too many guys today, in thechurch world, the business world
, they try to retread what hasalready been Now, some of the
systems and processes that theyshould use.
But it's a different generation, it's a different area, it's a.
You know, can you contextualizeand understand?
When I come to Spokane, it maybe a little different than Los
(21:03):
Angeles, for sure, yeah.
And then what's my vision?
And then how do I accomplishthat vision?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
for when it comes to this field or this industry, at
this time it's so interesting tome because I would consider you
a visionary, whatever thatmeans, right, it's hard to
quantify.
But even in saying that yousaid that I received a vision
and I think you know there's.
There can be this like identitycrisis, at least in the
entrepreneurial world of like,yeah, I love having a personal
mission statement and I careabout that.
I think it's worth crafting.
(21:32):
But there's this emphasis onalmost like I have to.
You know, I'm lost until I canactually have my own little
thing Right, my own little thingRight.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
So how did you come in with, with you know, like I
want to how do you make peacewith taking something that's
been passed to you andpropagating it the way you've
done?
Yeah, so it's that again, can Ireceive it?
And I think sometimes we make amistake is that we jump into a
business or an organization oras an entrepreneur and we say we
received it, but we've not, sowe can't.
(22:02):
You cannot authentically,because authenticity is such a
key core ingredient to visionbeing actually established and
communicated and celebrated.
If you don't really buy intothe vision it's not in here,
it's not who you are Then you'regoing to find not too long down
(22:24):
the line that why is it that Idon't have other followers?
Why is it that I can't get acompany going?
Because you don't believe inthe vision.
You think because I justadopted this, so it has to.
If you're going to adopt, like Idid, I had to resonate with my
soul, and for resonates in mysoul, resonates with my mind,
then I can get around and then Ican put the how to's you know
(22:44):
behind it.
If I'm going to adopt something, otherwise I would have to
create, you know something new,cause I couldn't adopt.
If you create, if you said hey,dan, you're going to take over
this church and I want you to dothis.
We're going to reach small kidsand we're going to focus on
two-year-olds.
That that's the wave of thefuture.
Two-year-olds are going tobecome and I'm like that's not
me, that's not me, that's great,that's you and God gave that to
(23:05):
you, but that's not me.
So I've got to be able toreceive it, because I can't
receive it, I can't own it.
If I can't own it, I can't liveit.
And then I can't lead it and Ican't share it if it's not part
of who I am.
And so, just like speed of theleader, speed going to lead an
organization, if you're going tolead a business, you better
(23:25):
darn well be the one whobelieves in whatever it is that
you're selling.
I've come across too many people, in whatever industry and you
guys have too that they aresaying all the right words, and
authenticity is such a highvalue in our culture today that
you can smell it in an instantand go.
This person does not believe.
I've actually, every once in awhile I know this is
contextualized in my environmentUm, sometimes our worship
(23:46):
leader, uh, they'll sing, youknow a song and they'll get off
the stage and I'm like I didn'tbelieve you.
Yeah, I was like, yes, youplayed it.
Well, I said it soundedfantastic.
I was like, but I don't believeyou believe those words.
Yeah, and I was like eitheryour mind and heart are not
engaged or you don't believe it,which is far worse than my area
, and I'm going to, I'm going totrust you're just, you're not,
(24:07):
you're not connecting today, butlet's, let's try to make sure
we believe in what we're saying,or not say it or not, live it
and lead others to it as well.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Sherpa
Leadership Podcast.
If you enjoyed this episodewith Dan Shields, you're in luck
, because there's a part two andwe hope you'll listen.
Don't forget to like, subscribeor share the podcast with a
fellow leader.
For more resources, you can goto sherpaconsultinggroupcom and
remember every step you take.
Matters, so keep climbinghigher.
Take care everybody.
I was what's called the reluctant leader.
Okay, Because as the pastor'skid, especially if you're in a
smaller church, there is amicroscope on you and they think
well, because you're thepastor's kid, you need to lead.
And I didn't want to lead andyet I kept being pulled into
opportunities to lead.
And so if you've got guys thatare reluctant in leadership or
(00:27):
don't feel like they should orcould lead, it's interesting the
empowerment of other people whobegin to speak truth into your
life, even at a young age, tosay I see in you either what you
may not see in yourself or whatyou don't want to experience in
yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
You're listening to the Sherpa Leadership Podcast,
your guide to climbing higher inlife and leadership.
I'm Reid Moore and, alongsideChase Williams, we're here to
help you break through obstacles, scale your potential and lead
with greater clarity and purpose.
(01:06):
Leaders, welcome to the sherpaleadership podcast.
I'm your host, reed moore,along with my buddy, chase
williams, and we have anexciting guest for you today.
As always, we love for you tolike, subscribe and share this
post with another leader to helpthem climb higher in life and
leadership.
As always, you can go to sherpaconsulting groupcom for all the
goodies and you get to ourpodcast that way as well.
So, chase, what do we got going?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
today.
Well, we have a very specialguest for everyone today, and
this is actually someone thatyou and I have been lucky enough
to be led by here at our localchurch Valley, real Life and so
Dan Shields, lead pastor.
So, dan, tell us a little bitabout kind of your journey into
leadership, whether that was prebeing a pastor, that was the
starting point of it.
Give us a little backgroundinto how you became a leader,
(01:49):
the backstory, the backstory.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Well, I think my first experience of leadership
probably happened when I was inkindergarten.
Of all places, when they divideup on recess, you know who's
supposed to do what.
Nobody was doing anything andwe're supposed to play a little
kickball, and so I just steppedforward and said all right,
here's what we're going to do.
And it was only then that theteacher pulled me aside and said
(02:12):
hey, danny, we think thatyou're supposed to be a leader.
And I was like well, why?
Well, because you did this.
And I was like I'm a five yearsold, you know, at the time, and
so I distinctly remember that.
I remember also dad modeling.
My dad was a pastor as well,and he modeled what it meant to
be a servant leader.
(02:32):
What does it look like to serveyour family and to serve your
kids?
People ask me and I don't knowabout you guys, but in my
industry, in my area, boundariesare always an issue, and so
people are always asking hey,pastor, we need help, can you
meet with us?
Can you come?
It's nine o'clock at night, it'son a Saturday, it's a Sunday
afternoon and, unfortunately,you can sacrifice your family,
and what my dad modeled for usis that Jesus was going to be
(02:53):
first, the family was going tobe second and the church and the
work was third, and that kindof servant leadership in the
home actually encouraged me tofollow in his footsteps.
So he modeled by how he livedand how he prioritized me.
That made me want to say Iactually want to do that with my
life.
That's a big deal.
(03:13):
So that you know, that's just acouple of little things that
kind of come to mind in terms ofjust leadership lesson stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
So it started with a kickball.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Right, learned a lot from your dad, that's right.
Right, like, tell us about kindof those early years of
becoming a leader inside of thechurch, like how what did that
look like from a trainingperspective and from additional
lessons in the, you know, on topof what you got from your dad?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Well, if I'm going to be honest, I was what's called
the reluctant leader.
Okay, because as the pastor'skid especially if you're in a
smaller church, there is amicroscope on you and they think
well, because you're thepastor's kid, you need to lead.
And I didn't want to lead.
And yet I kept being pulledinto opportunities to lead.
So, whether I'm in middleschool or high school, the youth
(03:56):
pastor saying, hey, danny, canyou actually step up and lead
this?
And I would say I really don'twant to.
He's like I really think youshould.
And so I would continuallyreluctantly step into these
opportunities.
And so if you got guys that arereluctant in leadership or don't
feel like they should or couldlead, it's interesting the
empowerment of other people whobegin to speak truth into your
(04:17):
life, even at a young age, tosay I see in you either what you
may not see in yourself or whatyou don't want to experience in
yourself.
I told my dad when I was 15 or16, I'm never going to be a
pastor.
I don't ever want to do whatyou do.
I just never want to do it.
And what God was doing in mylife was that he was kind of
nudging me through reluctance,that sometimes the very thing
(04:38):
we're most against gives us anindication of maybe a direction
we're supposed to follow, and Ibelieve that's not just in
Christian faith, I think that'sin all walks of life.
You can see it with your kids,you can see it with your
coworkers, you can see it withyour neighbors.
That sometimes, when you see anemotional response to something
, that's an indicator for me inmy own life that there's a
(04:59):
leadership lesson or there'ssomething that I should learn,
grow in or press into intosomebody else's life or into my
own, that there's somethingthere that's greater than what's
being perceived.
And so I found myself morereluctantly being pushed in
these things than finallyembracing them.
You know, on things like sports, you know, being captains of
different teams or going on amission trip, you know, and
(05:21):
serving in different places Tillfinally I just surrendered to
this.
All right, I guess I'm supposedto be a leader.
And now what does it mean?
How can I embrace that?
And then going into college asan 18 year old just saying I'm
going to embrace this path, I'mgoing to embrace this direction,
that I feel like that I'msupposed to go on?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Man, that's amazing.
So one of the things I loveabout that is a few episodes ago
we talked about kind of notintending or not wanting to be a
hollow leader, right.
So that's like self-leadership,leading in the family and all
of that, and there'sconsequences if you don't do
that Right.
And then there's, of course, alot of value that's provided
when you do like operate thatway.
That's right.
(05:58):
So at your early age, with yourdad modeling that for you, did
he continue to model that foryou, and was that something that
you continued to see around youas you grew in your leadership?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, as I got into college, my dad became more the
resource reference leader thanthe.
Listen to me.
I'm going to tell you I'm goingto model and do what I do.
So he knew, based on my wiringand personality, that if he
continued to remain more thedomineering or the I'm going to
encourage you to head in thisdirection, he would have lost me
(06:32):
in terms of the influence in mylife.
I needed more the dad and thesupport and the question asker
than I needed somebody todictate or direct my life.
So then it became moreprofessors in college.
It became other pastors.
It became books I was reading.
It became other people I wasjust learning from and I just
(06:53):
began to unknowingly juststarting to pull different
pieces of them because I wasthrust into a leadership
position that I had no businessbeing involved in.
So when I was 18 years old, Iwas asked to be a youth pastor,
with zero training andexperience, in East Los Angeles.
And here I am, a white kid fromthe suburbs of Seattle, that my
(07:16):
cross-cultural experience wasour.
A third of our church wasFilipino.
So I actually got a C inSpanish 101.
I nothing to do with it, andyet I've been given this
opportunity and I could justsense that God wanted me to lead
in East Los Angeles.
While going to school inFullerton and driving 30 minutes
(07:36):
out and you're saying here'sthe keys go do it.
Sometimes the best leadership isyou got to be thrown into the
deep end of the pool and that'smy personality, like throw me in
a situation where I can'tdepend on me.
I actually have to learn fromothers and I'm going to be the
most coachable.
I'm going to be listening, I'mgoing to be reading, I'm going
(07:56):
to be just soaking it all inbecause I'm in a leadership
position.
And because I'm in a leadershipposition, I have to learn.
And so then I put myself intoother classes upper level
classes, even in college, to tryto learn from other people who
were much further along than Iwas, and gathering a bunch of
other college students with mewho thought we could go change
(08:17):
the world and be like hey, let'sgo do this together.
So I got 15 or 16 of 18 and 19year olds to drive out 30
minutes every single week on aWednesday and then again on a
Sunday to work withunderprivileged Hispanic kids in
East Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
It was crazy, but it was one of the awesomest thing
you know that I've probablyexperienced in my life, because
I knew we were supposed to dothis, didn't know what I was
supposed to do and had myleadership lead just went like
just crazy.
Yeah, because I was just giventhe opportunity, and I think
sometimes that's what we miss iswe're not giving people
opportunities to jump into thosekinds of situations and
(08:52):
experience failure, but havepeople come alongside and say
you got this, I believe in you,and so, from professors to
different pastors, to differentpeople, they were instrumental
for me.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I love it.
So you talk about like you talkabout this opportunity to lead
right and changing the worldright, like my hallucination is
that someone had some visionaround why that was important
and who it could impact, and youmentioned attracting other
college students into working inthis community.
(09:22):
What was it about that vision?
What was it about that goal youmight even call it or that was
so attractive to others, and howdid you experience starting to
use this idea of vision to movepeople in one direction?
Speaker 1 (09:39):
That's interesting.
You're going to make me thinkyou know and go back.
What was it back then?
I think the greatest impact forpeople when it comes to vision
is helping them to see thattheir life has deep meaning and
purpose that can create a rippleeffect for generations or lives
to come.
So when I'm an 18-year-old andworking with other college
(10:02):
students, the vision pitch washey guys, I've never done this
before, you've never done thisbefore, but what could be, and
imagine if and can you considerthat your life, although you're
in college to be a elementaryteacher, psychology teacher,
you're going to go into thebusiness world?
(10:23):
I mean, all those differenttypes of people went to our
college it wasn't just those inministry and all these people to
say those are all great things.
But there's a unique season andopportunity we have right now
with working with some kids whodon't have great home lives Most
of you came from good ones whodon't have some education
experience which you have andare in need, and you have the
(10:45):
time, opportunity andavailability to just give this
much.
But it can make this much inthe life of a student, in the
life of somebody who's only twoor three years younger than you
are and for some reason theywanted to be a part of that and
I think the greater the peoplewho stayed on the longest was.
They wanted to be a part of usdoing something together.
(11:06):
The idea of me going out bymyself, not interested, but the
idea of here's five, six, seven,now 10, now 15, we're going to
get to go out and do thistogether and the stories we're
going to be able to sharetogether and the journey we're
going to go on together.
I think people are drawn tothat and I didn't know that that
was vision.
I just saw the opportunity, Ithink, for me, just because my
(11:28):
faith is so important to me.
That's what I felt Jesus wasdoing.
From a book standpoint, it wasright about the time.
Uh, the resource, thepurpose-driven life was coming
out by Rick Warren and the firstthree words of that
purpose-driven, which is an youcould say it's a vision driven
as well, but purpose-driven isit's not about you, and I can't
(11:50):
tell you how many people I'verun into who've read that book
and just said, huh, this wholeworld it's not about you.
And when you make it aboutothers and you invite others on
the team and make it aboutothers, it indirectly, does
become about you because of theimpact that is happening in your
life, as you're impacting otherpeople together as a team, and
(12:11):
that's what I saw happen withthese crazy 18 to 22 year olds.
You know for those five yearsthat we were doing it together.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I love it.
So, so, obviously theconversation today is around
this idea of seeing in shape inthe future, and the shorthand
for that is vision.
There's a few things, justobserving your leadership, that
I've just I have just encouragedme and helped me in my
leadership.
Number one is I've been able tosee that teachability and
coachability.
When we first started coming tothe church, just hearing you
(12:39):
speak and watching you lead, I'mlike I could see like, oh,
these are the books that he'sreading and he's being
intentional and those thingsover there that aren't total
chaos.
That's hard to do.
That's intentional leadership,right?
Because people are?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, especially volunteers.
You know employees.
You got a little bit of adangle, you know, of a check
behind it, but yeah, volunteersare tough.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah, so just watching that it was so helpful
and so like safe for me, I guessmight be the way of saying
under your leadership.
The other one was I want to diginto this is vision.
There's a level of requirementaround vision that I'm not very
good at and that is visionrequires not going off of vision
or not diverting or not seeingshiny things or getting uh,
(13:22):
diluted in in focus, which meanssaying no, a lot yes.
And the third one is the factthat that, um, that like let's
go here together that thatvision piece has been amazing.
So I guess those last two likehow do you keep it on the rails.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
How do you keep vision on the rails?
How do you keep vision on therails and how do you continue to
inspire vision even when it'shard?
It has to be received and thenowned and then lived.
If I can receive what thevision is, if I can see it, if I
can understand it, then if Ican own it, then you've got
someone who's on the team withyou and then they begin to live
(14:05):
it.
And so for us, we said allright, here's the vision, which
is a preferred picture of thefuture, which is reaching the
world for Jesus, one person at atime.
That has never changed.
I didn't even come up with it.
I inherited that and I'm likeokay, I can, I can carry that
because that can be language forme.
And so, as we reach anddisciple people, we're like
(14:26):
here's a process, and then wetry to help people understand.
Here's your part to play in theprocess of accomplishing the
vision.
And the one thing that is soundersold when it comes to how
do you keep, when you say, howdo you keep that at the
forefront what you celebrate,people emulate.
So what you celebrate, peopleaspire to.
(14:47):
So what you're celebrating,people are saying that is
success.
That is what I'm shooting for.
There's a reason you go to afootball or sporting event and
everybody cheers at the sametime.
How do they know?
Because when they first walkedin as a little kid who didn't
know what the heck was going on,when somebody put a ball in the
hoop and people cheered, thatkid all of a sudden says oh,
(15:11):
that's success, that's whatwe're supposed to do.
Hey, our team won, that'ssuccess.
Well's what we're supposed todo.
Hey, our team won, that'ssuccess.
Well, how do I know I'm winning?
How do I know I'm on the rightpath?
How do I know?
Well, what you're celebrating,people emulate, they copy, and
so for us.
We're saying how do we makesure that we celebrate the
preferred picture of the futureas we're going towards that
(15:32):
future.
So in our church, if we're hereto reach the world for Jesus,
one person at a time, you'llnotice and you guys have
experienced.
There's a reason why wecelebrate baptisms every single
week, right, and then all of asudden, people are clapping in
service and they don't even knowwhy.
They come into our church and,like everybody else, is clapping
.
Why are we clapping?
Because this person gotbaptized.
Well, why is that important?
(15:53):
And, as they're part of it,they're already experiencing
what we value as one measure ofsuccess and they don't even
realize it.
So when we highlight, when weemphasize so you guys have been
a part is every week we'retrying to find a celebration
story, a win story that ourcongregation, our people and our
leaders every time I send outan email, an update of what's
(16:15):
going on with it always is wherewe're going and celebrating the
process that we've got to sofar and we celebrate people like
yes, and they're invigoratedagain and they're excited again
and then they realize and hereand then I've got to be clear
here's how you played a part inhelping that happen.
You played a part because youprayed for the person you played
(16:36):
a part.
Because you gave you played apart.
Because you prayed for theperson you prayed a part.
Because you gave you pray a part, because you invited you pray
to play it apart, because andall of a sudden, I'm sitting
there going oh, I'm a part, Imade a difference in the life of
somebody else, and because Imade a difference, I'm part of
what God's doing around here.
And so the more you celebratethose things that you say are
accomplishing a vision, the morepeople latch onto that and all
(16:57):
of a sudden they're like oh,I've heard it, I now own it and
now I begin to live it.
Yeah, because you continue torepeat it differently and
differently, in different ways,on a regular basis so repetition
requires there's.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
There's this big thing in there that that I want
to know like were you born thisway or did you learn this?
Repetition requires consistency, and consistency is not
accidental, might be a way ofsaying that.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Intentional, it has to be super intentional, in fact
, almost boring, and I think Ijust learned it I don't know
which book or which podcast, butit just resonated to say, yeah,
the organizations, because Iwas studying business and other
guys like you, guys that aredoing incredible things.
You know they're out there andlike who are the winning
organizations?
(17:39):
And you look at some of thelarger, you know like the
Chick-fil-A's of the world, andyou're just like, well, what
makes them?
They're boring, they're notchanging.
I mean, wow, look at, theyadded barbecue sauce this month.
You know, and it's like this isamazing, you know, but that's
not the driver of success whenit comes to their employees,
that's not the driver of successwhen it comes to their owners
of the corporations and for theloyal customers that continue to
(18:01):
come in.
They're boring, but they'rereally, really consistent.
And in the consistency theyrebrand and reframe and redo,
but they continue to celebrateand continue to push on the
vision through specific,different steps.
That doesn't deviate.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, it's so interesting because in the
entrepreneurial space the ideaof vision is sexy, it's neat,
it's fun.
The idea of boring andrepetition doesn't seem like
it's actually the underwritingfactor, right, but it absolutely
is.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well, that's what I want the listeners to hear is a
lot of the pieces that you'resharing have actually been
systematized into the DNA andhow you run the organization the
church in this case.
Right, it's like, oh, we tell asuccess story, we celebrate
baptisms every week, right?
And so it's not systematizingvision in a sterile way, it's
(18:53):
systematizing in a consistentway so that it never starts to
drift, it never starts to leak.
People never wonder why doesthis matter?
Why does that matter and that'swhat I really want some of our
listeners to hear is like youcan make it new and exciting,
maybe on how you say it, but youcan also structure a lot of it
to make sure that you're notdrifting.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, I think one of the things.
But the method should change ona regular basis.
So, when it comes to vision,your message should never change
.
This is who you are, this iswhere you're going Now, how you
present it, when you present it,where you present it, that
(19:33):
should change all the time, infact.
If it doesn't, you turnsomething that's consistent into
boring and stale.
And when you reach that level,then you see organizations, you
see churches, you see, all of asudden it just begins to fall
because all we've just beensaying the same thing over and
over.
You have to continue to do itjust a little, not not do it
differently, but you have topresent it, you know, slightly
(19:55):
differently.
New times, new ages, newtechnology, new generation, you
know that continues to come up.
In fact, one of the things thatalways hit me, I think,
probably when I was younger, Ihad a pastor that told me one
time.
He said you know, it's not yourjob to come up with vision.
I was like what are you talkingabout?
He goes it's your job to readand understand culture and then
(20:20):
understand what vision should beplayed out.
And I was like what do you mean?
So in our context, it's not myjob to come up with vision.
It's my job to recognize if I'ma new entrepreneur and say the
reason the apples and the uh,the different churches out there
and the Sonys and the differentthings that you know got
started is that they just didn'tsay we're just going to do what
(20:40):
everybody's always done.
They recognize what's going on.
Then they come up with vision.
Too many guys today, in thechurch world, the business world
, they try to retread what hasalready been Now, some of the
systems and processes that theyshould use.
But it's a different generation, it's a different area, it's a.
You know, can you contextualizeand understand?
When I come to Spokane, it maybe a little different than Los
(21:03):
Angeles, for sure, yeah.
And then what's my vision?
And then how do I accomplishthat vision?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
for when it comes to this field or this industry, at
this time it's so interesting tome because I would consider you
a visionary, whatever thatmeans, right, it's hard to
quantify.
But even in saying that yousaid that I received a vision
and I think you know there's.
There can be this like identitycrisis, at least in the
entrepreneurial world of like,yeah, I love having a personal
mission statement and I careabout that.
I think it's worth crafting.
(21:32):
But there's this emphasis onalmost like I have to.
You know, I'm lost until I canactually have my own little
thing Right, my own little thingRight.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
So how did you come in with, with you know, like I
want to how do you make peacewith taking something that's
been passed to you andpropagating it the way you've
done?
Yeah, so it's that again, can Ireceive it?
And I think sometimes we make amistake is that we jump into a
business or an organization oras an entrepreneur and we say we
received it, but we've not, sowe can't.
(22:02):
You cannot authentically,because authenticity is such a
key core ingredient to visionbeing actually established and
communicated and celebrated.
If you don't really buy intothe vision it's not in here,
it's not who you are Then you'regoing to find not too long down
(22:24):
the line that why is it that Idon't have other followers?
Why is it that I can't get acompany going?
Because you don't believe inthe vision.
You think because I justadopted this, so it has to.
If you're going to adopt, like Idid, I had to resonate with my
soul, and for resonates in mysoul, resonates with my mind,
then I can get around and then Ican put the how to's you know
(22:44):
behind it.
If I'm going to adopt something, otherwise I would have to
create, you know something new,cause I couldn't adopt.
If you create, if you said hey,dan, you're going to take over
this church and I want you to dothis.
We're going to reach small kidsand we're going to focus on
two-year-olds.
That that's the wave of thefuture.
Two-year-olds are going tobecome and I'm like that's not
me, that's not me, that's great,that's you and God gave that to
(23:05):
you, but that's not me.
So I've got to be able toreceive it, because I can't
receive it, I can't own it.
If I can't own it, I can't liveit.
And then I can't lead it and Ican't share it if it's not part
of who I am.
And so, just like speed of theleader, speed going to lead an
organization, if you're going tolead a business, you better
(23:25):
darn well be the one whobelieves in whatever it is that
you're selling.
I've come across too many people, in whatever industry and you
guys have too that they aresaying all the right words, and
authenticity is such a highvalue in our culture today that
you can smell it in an instantand go.
This person does not believe.
I've actually, every once in awhile I know this is
contextualized in my environmentUm, sometimes our worship
(23:46):
leader, uh, they'll sing, youknow a song and they'll get off
the stage and I'm like I didn'tbelieve you.
Yeah, I was like, yes, youplayed it.
Well, I said it soundedfantastic.
I was like, but I don't believeyou believe those words.
Yeah, and I was like eitheryour mind and heart are not
engaged or you don't believe it,which is far worse than my area
, and I'm going to, I'm going totrust you're just, you're not,
(24:07):
you're not connecting today, butlet's, let's try to make sure
we believe in what we're saying,or not say it or not, live it
and lead others to it as well.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Sherpa
Leadership Podcast.
If you enjoyed this episodewith Dan Shields, you're in luck
, because there's a part two andwe hope you'll listen.
Don't forget to like, subscribeor share the podcast with a
fellow leader.
For more resources, you can goto sherpaconsultinggroupcom and
remember every step you take.
Matters, so keep climbinghigher.
Take care everybody.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.