June 30, 2025 • 32 mins
John grabs Jeff Lewis after their SiriusXM shift and locks him down for a long-overdue Show Pony sit-down. What was supposed to be a recap of Workout S1E4 becomes something better: a no-bullshit Bravo download with one of the few people who lived it in real time. Jeff talks early Bravo, Jackie Warner, what the network used to be, and how reality TV warps everything — including your relationships, sense of self, and yes, your spray tan technique. Casual. Off-the-cuff. Surprisingly deep. Definitely unplanned.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Good evening and welcome to a very special episode of Chowpony.
I'm almost halfway through with season two, and this episode
I've been dreading for a long time. I finally got
to the spot where Doug's health starts to suffer. I'm
not going to go through the minu show this episode
because we have a very special guest and I don't
want to get behind. So the basic gist of this
(00:34):
episode is Jackie SI lesbian, Jesse and Doug are still
having rivalry, and then the big moment is that Doug
has to be put in a drug induced coma he got.
We find out he had a terrible flu, it grew
into an infection, and we've known this is coming for
(00:55):
a long time and this is the episode where it
all goes down. But Jess is going to come on
the show, I think next week, so we'll break it
all down with him. This episode is going to be
more about traveling back. We're going to take a walk
down Bravo memory Lane with someone who was there, Jeff Lewis,
star of Flipping Out and my serious XM colleague. I
(01:16):
cornered him in the conference room and asked him a
bunch of questions. I wanted to know what was it
like to have a show on Bravo at the time,
How much did you get paid? How was the show pitched?
Did you I wanted to know if he watched Workout,
if he met Jackie at the upfronts. I figured Jackie
had to know Jeff from their days of both headlining
Bravo shows back in the mid two thousands, so I
(01:37):
wanted to get his take and to find out some
of the origins of flipping out as well. And I
know you guys are just suckers for Jeff anyway. So
for those of you who really want the recap, don't
worry it's coming. But now travel back in time with
me with Jeff Lewis to the mid two thousands when
Jackie was on TV, Tabitha, Kathy Griffin and and all
(02:02):
of the heroes of a generation. You have to kind
(02:22):
of hold it like this, Okay, is this bad? Shoe?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Scissor?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Hi? Shane?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Know? Sit there?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I think it's Nice's actually nice?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
A hair transplant? How's that looking?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Well, it's not gonna you can't see anything till July
next month.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
When did you do it?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
March?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
What areas did you focus on this corner. This corner,
they strengthen the hairline. It's like a triangle. See, it's
good to do it before you need it. Well, I'm
starting to see the holes.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Like, especially in those studios with the lights, you can
see the holes. I never see your holes, even though.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I'd like to.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Wow. Thanks for doing this.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Oh oh we online right now? Oh yeah, I just
started it. Oh shit, Okay, so what is this for?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Okay, so I'm doing a podcast about some vintage Bravo shows.
I'm starting to workout. Oh I see okay, Yeah, I
interviewed Jackie. Okay, did you watch workout?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I did? Okay, Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I want to talk to you because you had a
show on at the same time.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, she wasn't you know she's she was friendly with you. Well, yeah,
I don't find her very warm, and I don't think
she's very friendly, and she hasn't been very I've never
had I don't know she has some sort of issue
with me, But I don't know. Maybe I did something,
maybe I said something I don't recall. Why would we
would have any sort of beef, But I think she
(03:44):
has beef with me.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
What are your memories of her from that time Flipping
Out was on, which was first?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
You know what, I think Blowout was first, right.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Blowout was first before I.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I think I started filming in two thousand and seven,
and I think it aired in two thousand and eight,
I believe, and.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Workout was first. It was two thousand and six.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Oh so she was first.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
One is two thousand and six. Yeah, so you didn't
really watch the show, but you obviously met through, Like,
oh I watched her show?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Oh you did, Yeah, I liked it. I watched it.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Look, I thought she was a very intense personality. There
was a lot of drama in her life, you know,
the people that surrounded her. And you know, I didn't
think it was a bad show. I thought it was
actually a good show. I remember, I remember watching it.
She was like a big deal. She was a big
deal for her especially.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Gay lesbian moments.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, Tea, she was attractive. Yeah, and was Rachel Zoe
around two at that time, Okay, and then Patti Stinger,
Patty Singer, Tabitha. Oh, I forgot about Tabitha was there
that early? Yes, Tabitha well, because she.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Had been on Blowout, or she your genius. That's what
I meant.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
She's one of my favorites.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
He's my favorite, I think personality of all time.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, when do you get her on Jeff Lewis Live.
She was on Jeff Lewis Live. She was going through
a hard time when she was on.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I think someone girlfriend her wife wife, So, but yes,
she's she's been on.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I really like her, I've always really liked I want
her to take over. We've got along, We always got
along very well. Rachel was. I think the first time
I met her she was a bit chilly, but I
actually think she's shy because then when I met her
the second time, she was much more friendly. So first
and when I first met her, I'm like, oh, she's
a bitch whatever, But then the second time she was
(05:28):
so friendly that I my deduction was that she was shy.
I have I don't really have much interest in women's
fashion either. However, her passion is really I find it
so interesting and I would find myself just kind of
captivated with her because she's so somebody who loves their
craft and she really is good at what she does,
(05:51):
and I found it to be, yeah, a bit captivating.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Well to be honest, I'm the same way with houseful
and design. But I'm entertained by you and I like
your show. So like watching someone do what they do well,
doesn't matter what even like Tabitha working out, you know, like, no,
you're not really seeing anyone work out or do anything in.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
The day, right, But when you when you when you're
watching these people that are, you know, top of their
game and their experts in their field, and they're you know,
you just kind of I don't know, I respect their
passion and their drive and their ambition and their dedication totally.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
What was the like ballpark pay scale for a reality
show in the early two thousands on Bravo.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Mine was. My situation was a little different. Why because
they had sold the show before I had a contract.
So I've talked about this. This was a very big
mistake by the production company.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
So you didn't leverage anything going into like the show
is nothing without me. They had a show and if
you want to be on it, here's your pay.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah. So what happened was is they had offered me
I think it was thirty five hundred for the pilot,
twenty five hundred per episode, and I took you know,
this is in two thousand and seven, and I was unknown,
completely unknown, So I and.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Shows like that were unknown. There weren't a bunch of
shows on TV like that.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And I took the contract home and I, you know,
I just didn't sign it. I didn't read it, I
didn't do anything, and I just it just sat on
my desk. And then they would The production company went
out and they sold the show before they had their
talent attached. So when they came back and they said
we have an offer from Bravo for six episodes straight
to series, I said great, I said, but I can't
(07:34):
work for this kind of money. So I ended up
starting in eighteen thousand, five hundred episode in two thousand
and seven. That's pretty good money for an unknown first season. Yeah,
and then it just went up from there.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Wow, okay, that's pretty good though. You got your way
up to eighteen five. I just wonder what Jackie made.
I'm I'm nowhere near that I would think. I mean,
obviously you get raises after every season. Yeah, so I
don't know what was emy seasons was floping out on
eleven eleven seasons, Yeah, damn, Workout was only up for
three and they were like eight episodes each.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, it's funny because you know, I've talked about this also,
but you know, Andy said that these you know, these
docu series only last maximum three seasons. So he said,
you take advantage of the opportunities, and that's what I did.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Well, that was probably true. It is true, And your
show is a little bit of an anomaly, right, And
we didn't we didn't really produce or set anything up.
And it was shot like a documentary, which I don't think.
I don't know if they do that anymore because it
took a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I mean, you're looking at ten days long days for
one episode.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Right, And would you consult with them about here's the
story arc of this general? Ever?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Ever, in fact, in the beginning, they would, they would
they had actually put together a story arc. And I'm like,
what what are you? What are you talking about? Right? So, no, no, no,
this that's not the show. Like you're going to follow me, right,
and you know you're going to have to work with
whatever I give you or whatever. And you know, I
think the secret was is to always stay very busy. Yeah,
and I always had a lot of personalities around me
(09:04):
and big personalities, but just a lot of people in
general with a very busy life, and it just kind
of wrote itself.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, I produced D List and that shit was very
written out. Yes, from all the beats were written out,
but it worked that way for us.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
We liked it, and I liked Life on the D List.
I did like that show, So that was Kathy was
one of those people back in the day. The thing
what I have experienced with Kathy is that, you know,
and I think maybe in comedians in general, because sometimes
I'm sure you might have comedians on your show, sometimes
they come with like these these pre written bits, they
don't work, and they very much try to pivot yea,
(09:41):
so they can, you know, they can perform their bits.
But the thing about Kathy is and I got to
know her behind behind the scenes because we became friends.
I kind of consulted in our house, and she's so
funny off the cuff, totally. Actually, I think she's funny.
The funnier stuff is not you plan funnier off the cuff.
And I always thought to myself, like these comedians, especially
(10:05):
somebody like Kathy, who's so smart and witty, you know,
you don't even need to pre write this shit no,
you're so good.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Well, I'll say we didn't pre write any like jokes,
but we we set up the story kind of arc
about like she's going to go to the Apollo, and
then we would write it out like will how will
that go? You know what I mean, like you kind
of point towards different things that could happen, and then
she always thought of stuff in the moment that was
really funny and better than.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I feel like, you know the really I think the
closest thing we got to producing is if let's just
say Ryan and I had some sort of tiff about
something and they would want, you know, hey, you know,
is there any way we could get a little more
of that? And then But what was great about it
is they gave me such freedom. So it wasn't like, okay,
(10:52):
tomorrow at eleven o'clock, I would just know we've got
a film. We got five days filming this week. At
one point, when it feels and organic, if you could
just you know, talk a little bit more about that,
so I would get very kind of a little bit
of direction if they felt they needed something. Sure, but
we mostly delivered, and I think you know, we also
(11:17):
didn't make much waves. They didn't believe it or not.
Like Jenny and I kind of kept our head down
and we didn't cause any problems, and we just we
delivered year after year. We didn't you know, we weren't
calling Andy or calling Bravo executives. We weren't complaining. We weren't.
I mean, towards the end things got a little contentious,
but for the most part, I would say they never
(11:40):
really heard from us, and I think it was smart
to stay under the radar because they just thought this
show is doing well. They're easy. They don't bother us.
And I also made the point too with Andy, which
I think is why Andy and I became You know,
there were times in our lives where we've been close.
(12:00):
But I think what he appreciated is I never talked
about work with him. So if I was in New York,
he'd be like, Hey, let's get a drink or let's
go to dinner, and I wasn't. I didn't talk about production,
and I didn't complain about you know, producers or camera
guys or co stars or we just went out and
had a good time.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
We also have a life, yeah, other things going on.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I think a lot of people thought that Andy favored
me because I was gay, and that really wasn't it
at all. It was really I mean, sure we have
that in common, but we just I think he would
always you know, if I was in New York, we
would always make plans. If he was in LA we
would always make plans. We had some really fun nights
(12:44):
going out together, but who bottomed you're funny, but I don't.
We never hooked up. We never crossed that line I
could we have. I think I was always in relationships,
So I think early on there was probably a mutual attraction,
(13:04):
but that wasn't the basis of our friendship, our relationship.
But I think there was a bit of a mutual
attraction in the beginning. But you know, and he's extremely professional,
and I was in a relationship and I was loyal
to the people I was with, and it just it
just never really panned out that way. And I'm glad.
I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, and look at you now, well, you know, little longevity,
the relationship he's given me.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
You know, he's given me like you, he's giving me,
you know, two careers, a lot of opportunities, and I
appreciate that. Yeah, he's the best I have nothing negative
to never say.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
A couple of decades, I was like, when is when
are you going to show that you're really an asshole
deep down? And it never has ever happened. And now
he's just the greatest friend of.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Ever get me wrong. He can be bitchy, he can
be sure, he can be distracted. I mean there's a
lot of you know, but no, I don't think it's
ever been an asshole to me. No, No, he loved you.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
What about so you're doing still doing Hollywood Houselift?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
No, that was back to Bravo. That was canceled after
two seasons. And then yes, I've been talking to Bravo.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I know people who discovered Hollywood Houselift and not having
seen Flipping Out and became fans of Viarious.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
They really liked it. Thank you. It was a I
think it was a great show. It just you know,
there was a lot of turnover over Amazon and some
restructuring and things like that FREEV like what is red right?
And then but I'm confident that we're going to put
this show together with Bravo. We're just waiting on the
releases from Sirius, which has been quite a challenge. But
(14:37):
I hear that we've made a lot of progress, because
you know, a big part of my life now is radio.
So you can't do a docu series about my life
and not include radio. But we need access to radio
such so we would need the release from serious, which
I believe, Like I said, in fact, I heard something
encouraging about two days ago that they're pretty close to
putting a deal together.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
If you do another show with Bravo, what would you
do differently than you didn't know during Flipping Out? Get
a better deal up front?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I don't know if I would, you know, I felt
like there was a lot of in hindsight, I there
was a lot that ended up on that cutting room floor.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Well you shot so much because you didn't.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
We shot so much, and I feel like we wouldn't
need to be shooting as much. It was quite a commitment.
I mean you're talking, you know, eight am, they're in
and cameras are up, and a lot of times we
were lucky if they were out by five. I mean
it was sometimes it would go to seven. So they
were very long days and a lot of really funny
(15:39):
moments too that they just didn't have space for. So
I felt like in a way we overshot a bit.
Now it is a fine line because now we've been
talking about kind of these what is it? What does
the production schedule look like. I don't want to film
too little either, because I don't want to be in
a position where we don't have content. And then now
(16:01):
you're creating content because you're setting things up. You're doing
so I said to them, this is going with the
production company. We've been talking to thirty two flavors. You know,
this show is going to require a little bit more
shooting than others others because I don't I will not
fake it. I will not fake it. So that set,
I don't think we need to do five days a week.
Maybe it's four one week, maybe it's three.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
The nexteh, we'll say, have you told Shane that you
have to replace him yet?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I'm sorry, Oh my god, I forgot you were here.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
You Shane is Shane is TV gold. I know, he's
your ace in the hole. Yeah, so to speak. And
then Zoila is still around and I have you know,
it's we always have this cast of characters around me
with you know, big person big personalities. I love people
to make me laugh, and you always pick good people.
Entertaining people been on your radio shows. I mean, I
(16:52):
don't know about good people, but they're you know, some
are good, some are bad, some are uh, they're all
seem to be entertaining. They're not boring, they're not boring,
you know, and they're all hot. Except in this business
what we do, you know. Unfortunately, you have people that
will apply under the guise of I'm interested in flipping
houses or I'm interested in, you know, in turning behind
(17:15):
the scenes at radio, whatever, but really they want to
be on radio and they want to be on TV.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Well that's what Jennie says. She said, all the trainers, trainers,
they were actors on TV.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Well that wasn't the case with Flipping Out. I mean,
Jenny really did work for me, so did her husband.
We had a few that, although they did they were
never actors. But although they did the job, I realized
that they had different career aspirations and so maybe they
weren't that passionate about design and house flipping, but really
(17:49):
wanted to be on Flipping Out. And there was there
was one or two of those that we sniffed out
and we took care of that. We replaced them Jenny
and I were very proud about because the show was
so authentic, and I think that was one of the
reasons why it resonated with so many people. That and
all the characters, because you know, if you didn't like Zavillia,
liked Jenny, if you didn't like Jenny, you liked Sarah,
(18:11):
whatever it was. You really never know what is going
to happen in this business. And you know, after a
while in season eleven, well, I was in the process
of negotiating a new deal with Bravo and it was
including two guaranteed seasons of Flipping Out. So I was
actually rather kind of shocked when they didn't pick up
(18:31):
season eleven. And there's things that are out of our control.
So you think that your show is going to go
on and on and on, but a co star could
do something that then causes the show to be canceled,
and or network executive. You know, maybe you have this
(18:51):
this network executive that's championing your show and they leave,
and now someone new comes in and they want to
go in a different direction before you never really know.
So the one thing that I I'm so glad I did,
which again is partly because of Andy you know Andy
kind of telling me that this thing is done after
three seasons. That I never gave up my day job,
and when it was canceled, it could have been devastating
(19:15):
had I not had a career already. So you know,
it was certainly was. There was some getting used to
the new life, but I was never worried about paying
my bills, which I imagine there's a lot of people
out there that have become full time reality stars, which
is not a real career.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Well, not to bring it back to Jackie, but she
moved back in with her parents in Ohio, and when
I interviewed her, she was in like the basement of
her Maybe I think she might live on her own now,
but yeah, I think that. You know, she tried to
keep her day job, but it didn't work out as well.
Oh really, well, she got a dui. She lost a
lot of money. Like her business was tied into wellness
(19:56):
and health, and if you show up at seven eleven
in your panties and flip flops on ambient drunk and
get arrested, people don't want to go to you for
lifestyle and health and wellness advice, right, So yeah, no,
that probably wouldn't be the first person to go to
I mean I would maybe, but yeah, I think it
kind of dinged interest to her reputation a little bit.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Look, I hope that people evolve learn mature life coach. Now, Oh, well,
you know what, she probably has a lot of experiences.
That's what she said. Through it. She's made mistakes. Yeah,
you know, she was self destructive. She and she's good
at telling people here's what you need to do. You know,
can you life coach me? Oh, I don't know if
you want me to. Can I have a laboo boo?
(20:41):
I do have some. I've got more coming to Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
When I moved to New York, will you give me
some design tips from my small two bed two inch apartment?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
There was a I don't know, there's a theory of
why you moved. Why that Oscar was making.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I'm getting I'm getting transgender surgery oscars.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
He's a little obsessed with you, and that he was
making you uncomfortable, and that that was the theory that
was flying around today here at serious exam and that's
why you moved. Well, I'm gone, the joke's on you,
because I think he has actually is he moves into
your life for a transfer. He's actually you might have
to go to Nashville or Miami. This is the best
and I will miss this when I go to New York.
Is Oscar following you?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Well, I was not gonna say this, But which do
we say that? Who Oscar is?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
We're actually going to live together? Oscar is our? Is
he one of our producers? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (21:32):
And he was, and he was one of your producers? Yeah,
he was my board app But then I think it
was a job. What's it called promotion? Well, to go
to you? He went to a permanent part time. Yeah.
It's so shady. They do that so they don't have
to give anybody benefit. Of course, that's exactly why they
do it. Do serious pay benefits for you? No?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, same, I don't get anything. And do they salary you?
And do you get days off? Do you get like
a paycheck every two weeks?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
I get a paycheck once month.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Do you do you have to bill for your shows? No?
So you have to build from my show.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I honestly don't know how it happens. I don't even
I just like randomly get money. Sometimes there's no invoicing
and there's no like I don't invoice them and they
don't really send me a paste up. It just kind
of appears in your account. Okay, and the amounts consistent.
It is consistently. I get random. I can you know
what now that I think about? Like quarterly, I get random?
Sh random? Where's it coming from?
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I get a drugs?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
What's it for? And I don't know how.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
To You might be getting a percentage of advertising I
am not getting. Well that would explain the random number.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I don't know. Okay either way, But are you happy?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I am happy? Yeah, I'm happy too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
You know how this has been a little easier to
deal with?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Is Bravo? Yeah, they're loosing it up. Yeah. They used
to own us. I mean they would put us in
a cage.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
It would snobby too about their content too. Like now
I feel like they're a little bit more flexible.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
They used to. I mean they handcuffed me for years,
and now they're a little bit I feel like they're
little looser. Like I think they're starting to see the
bigger picture, like, Okay, let Jeff go do this show
because that brings more eyes and ears to our network.
So I feel like they're a little more open minded now,
but I think they were a little fear based, like
so afraid of losing us that they wouldn't let us
(23:16):
outside the building, right, and they would not let us
do anything else really without permission. And most of the
time it wasn't out.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I'm excited to see what happens for you next. I
feel like this is.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
A whole new era. Well, I want you know, what
I would like to do is I'd like to keep
and it depends who owns it and all of this,
but I'd like to keep the same title and just
do Flipping Out season twelve. Oh really after a seven
year pause? Seven or six?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I think, Yeah, did you kick around any other titles?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
No? Why would we It's already branded, it's already like
you're going to get a guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
And it's about the same thing.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
So that's my question.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Is it, even though radios may be involved, is it
going to be still flipping houses?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah? I mean it's still a little flip, it's still
a little design, it's still a little you know, it's radio,
it's still home life. It's the same show. It's just
you know, minus a few characters. But then We've added
on a few new characters over the years organically, like
this is what's happened. This person laught, this person got.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Hired, and this is such a good home base too,
Like the radio show is a good tent poll for
whatever episode is happening. You guys are always kind of
like discussing in processing.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
You're right, we're discussing. I have two hours each day,
so we're discussing whatever is going on in my life
on the radio. So that's what you need, the radio.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, I mean, people are so obsessed with the RAI.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
It's just they see it.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I mean, chump con right, you have people willing to
travel the country to go convene and goon all over
your face just to be near you.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Just I didn't think of it that way. Goon on
my face, but yeah, they do, like attending.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Do white women. Goon not gonna be the title of
this episode.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I'll let you go.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Thank you so much for your time. Are you kicking
me out? I was just you go back your day.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I don't care, but you answered.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
I answered even more than I had thought.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Okay, wow, thanks for having me here in the conference room.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I'm serious.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
ExM You're welcome, thanks for joining. Come back move October November.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Maybe what what's the hold up? The I was looking
a little bit and then where you haven't found an
apartment yet?
Speaker 1 (25:20):
No, I need to go back and like find an
apartment that I like. I wanted my contract to be
done when I got because like it was going to
be over in October. So I was showing landlords like, hey,
I have a job that might end, but if I
go in October, I'll say, here's a job that maybe
it's for three more years. Yes, it'll look cuter and
the I think the apartments will there will be better
things available.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
When I was.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Looking downtown in the village and Chelsea, it was all
NYU girlies who were so rich and we were competing
for the same like studio because in their minds they
were looking at room and board that their parents have
saved for twenty years and they were like, oh, six
grand a month, that's not that bad, you know, Like.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
What are you looking at for nice apartment in New York?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Where are you gonna live? You say, I can't. I'm
too old, i don't have the energy to live in
like Queens or Brooklyn. I'm not living. I can't, Okay,
so I have to. I'm gonna have to live downtown somewhere.
I might maybe Upper West Side if i'm If i'm.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Out, what is a nice one bedroom apartment? Five six Five's.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
The average Manhattan rent? I pay twenty three hundred a
month now, and I love my apartment here.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
I love it. But you'll will you you'll get rid
of your car? Right?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Oddly enough? I like having a car in New York.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Okay, so yes, because now you're going to pay for parking.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Well, the thing is in New York parking there is
minimum three fifty a month. Yes, that's such bullshit. So
I think I will get rid of.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
The car, right, do you want it? You can get repoed.
Oh you have the teak one. It's the tows of
the tows.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I love my tows. I never want to But is
it a lease or do you own it? It's a lease.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
When's the least up fucking two years from now? Shit,
you might be able to get someone to just take
over the lease. I think so or.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I had a friend who was like, if you drive
it into the dealership and it has no.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Miles on it, oh, they might buy it out. They
might just be like, yeah, we'll take it back. They
did that with Doug's Audi. They bought it back, but
just because he wanted to trade it in early. But
if not, you could get someone to take over your payments.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Are you interested in the car?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
But we're always running in people that need cars. What
year is it?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
It's a twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Oh, it's like brand new.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
It's I just got in October. Holy shit, it's a
great car.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
What's the payment?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Five hundred a month?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
That's great, it's a great payment.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
I know.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Well, okay, I'm going to think about this and I'll
let you know.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
It's in perfect condition. And I love Volkswagen. I love
that you drive it too, and you're like it says
it needs washer fluid. You handle it and they'll do it.
Oh service wise, Yeah, you just kind of like make it.
You're like your car is there's something that happening with
your car?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
All right? So you're waiting for your contract to be
renewed before you move. Yeah, I just want to otherwise
you look unemployed. Yeah, I think it'll look better.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
It's gonna look a lot better for landlords. And I
want a good place. I want to love where I live.
I don't want to be like, ugh, I love living
in New York, but I hate my abart man.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I did that in my twin.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, I got it.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Being at home.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I stay at it's going to be I don't go out.
I think you're going to It's the end of the year, right,
November December.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Remember December, it'll be cheaper, there will.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Be well, Oscar will be happy that you're not leaving.
Well until December.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
We'll have cuffing season together here, one last cuffing season.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I tried to set him up with somebody. He said
that and the guy was only ten years older than him,
and thirty six. Oscar's like twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Well whatever, everyone's on their own path, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I just think by the time you're twenty se is
this a SPRAYTN? Oh, that's two spray tns.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Okay, wait, just see you know I'm not going to
sun Kiss by Jenny anymore. I got a membership at
Sugar and Bronzed. Oh, I'm obsessed.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I love it. Oh, I don't even know what sugar
it is. What is sugaring.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
It's when they take the hair off your whole It's
like waxing.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Does it hurt?
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I also, I don't want to get on all fours,
but with some like teen girl is like ripping my.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
It's funny you say that because I have a grey
tanner that comes to the house and I like her
because she's more age appropriate. She's in her forties, she's
you know, she's been doing this forever. I have no
problem getting naked in front of her. But then probably
she travels a lot. Yeah, and when she's not there,
this cutest, sweetest girl comes over. It was like, yeah,
it was like twenty three, and I'm like, I got
to wear my underwear' this is too weird. Well, I
(29:19):
always wear my underwear. Oh no, I'm I'm you go naked,
fully naked? Do you have a brown dig Yeah? And
ask what?
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Oh see?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I like a little tan line. I don't want a
tan line. I don't want a tand line. I don't
like tan lines, and so I don't want an orange
but I don't. But I also don't want to show
my orange my orange penis to this cute little twenty
three year old girl for free least. I just feel
like a predator. It feels weird exactly, So I leave
my underwear on for her.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I always leave the underwear on, and it's like you're
also you're just the two of you naked. It's it's vulnerable.
But I don't think I could handle that. I can
deal with I don't think I can handle my bare
rectum in some like sweet young lady's face, you know,
I ask her to rip the hair out.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Jenny does it all the time. So Jenny Off Jenny
spray tan is the one that comes to my house. Yeah,
and do you do the little squat too? Sing it underneath? Yeah.
She makes you pop up your yeah. Yeah, so you
don't get a little creepy. Yeah, I don't get any
lie it flaps.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
But I highly recommend. I love sun Kis by Jenny.
I think it was one of the best spray tans
I've ever had in my life. But sugar and bronze.
If you are addicted like I am, and you need
like a maintenance one every other week because you feel
but fucking ugly.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
I feel so much better after a spray tan too.
But I always have someone spray me. You go into
there and to the machine thing.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Oh, they spray you. A girl sprays me. Oh yeah,
and there's one there everywhere. It's a chain.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
I just don't want, you know, so many people seeing
my penis. I just so I use spray tan. Now
this is worn off, Yeah it's it's wearing off. But
you still have some color, tiny bit, you still have color.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
I'm going to the beach. I'm going to pee town
on Fire Islands. I'm waiting to see you trying to
bank them right before? When do you go this fourth
of July weekend and week for are.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
You taking Oscar? Oscar and I are We have a
bunk golgeous us. Oh my god, that's so cute.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
We're going to get a TP on the beach and
just bear back for the whole week.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
All right, I'm gonna go now you Thank you so much.
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
The shirt is kind of dirty.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
I might smell you always so cute.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Thank you for joining me. Wow, fascinating show. Pony is created, conceived, produced, performed,
edited and delivered and presented by yours truly, John Hill.
Support me on the Patreon, listen to me on sirius
xm dm me. What you want to see more of
(31:41):
besides Jeff? Who else do you want to see on
the pot and besides Taba the coffee. Don't worry, I'm
working on it. Jesse's coming up soon. I'm supposed to
interview him tomorrow. Apparently Rebecca's interested in coming on the show.
I hope you enjoyed this very special episode of Show Pony.
We'll see you next week. Each Peace,
Good evening and welcome to a very special episode of Chowpony.
I'm almost halfway through with season two, and this episode
I've been dreading for a long time. I finally got
to the spot where Doug's health starts to suffer. I'm
not going to go through the minu show this episode
because we have a very special guest and I don't
want to get behind. So the basic gist of this
(00:34):
episode is Jackie SI lesbian, Jesse and Doug are still
having rivalry, and then the big moment is that Doug
has to be put in a drug induced coma he got.
We find out he had a terrible flu, it grew
into an infection, and we've known this is coming for
(00:55):
a long time and this is the episode where it
all goes down. But Jess is going to come on
the show, I think next week, so we'll break it
all down with him. This episode is going to be
more about traveling back. We're going to take a walk
down Bravo memory Lane with someone who was there, Jeff Lewis,
star of Flipping Out and my serious XM colleague. I
(01:16):
cornered him in the conference room and asked him a
bunch of questions. I wanted to know what was it
like to have a show on Bravo at the time,
How much did you get paid? How was the show pitched?
Did you I wanted to know if he watched Workout,
if he met Jackie at the upfronts. I figured Jackie
had to know Jeff from their days of both headlining
Bravo shows back in the mid two thousands, so I
(01:37):
wanted to get his take and to find out some
of the origins of flipping out as well. And I
know you guys are just suckers for Jeff anyway. So
for those of you who really want the recap, don't
worry it's coming. But now travel back in time with
me with Jeff Lewis to the mid two thousands when
Jackie was on TV, Tabitha, Kathy Griffin and and all
(02:02):
of the heroes of a generation. You have to kind
(02:22):
of hold it like this, Okay, is this bad? Shoe?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Scissor?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Hi? Shane?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Know? Sit there?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I think it's Nice's actually nice?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
A hair transplant? How's that looking?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Well, it's not gonna you can't see anything till July
next month.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
When did you do it?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
March?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
What areas did you focus on this corner. This corner,
they strengthen the hairline. It's like a triangle. See, it's
good to do it before you need it. Well, I'm
starting to see the holes.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Like, especially in those studios with the lights, you can
see the holes. I never see your holes, even though.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I'd like to.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Wow. Thanks for doing this.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Oh oh we online right now? Oh yeah, I just
started it. Oh shit, Okay, so what is this for?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Okay, so I'm doing a podcast about some vintage Bravo shows.
I'm starting to workout. Oh I see okay, Yeah, I
interviewed Jackie. Okay, did you watch workout?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I did? Okay, Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I want to talk to you because you had a
show on at the same time.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, she wasn't you know she's she was friendly with you. Well, yeah,
I don't find her very warm, and I don't think
she's very friendly, and she hasn't been very I've never
had I don't know she has some sort of issue
with me, But I don't know. Maybe I did something,
maybe I said something I don't recall. Why would we
would have any sort of beef, But I think she
(03:44):
has beef with me.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
What are your memories of her from that time Flipping
Out was on, which was first?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
You know what, I think Blowout was first, right.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Blowout was first before I.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I think I started filming in two thousand and seven,
and I think it aired in two thousand and eight,
I believe, and.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Workout was first. It was two thousand and six.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Oh so she was first.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
One is two thousand and six. Yeah, so you didn't
really watch the show, but you obviously met through, Like,
oh I watched her show?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Oh you did, Yeah, I liked it. I watched it.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Look, I thought she was a very intense personality. There
was a lot of drama in her life, you know,
the people that surrounded her. And you know, I didn't
think it was a bad show. I thought it was
actually a good show. I remember, I remember watching it.
She was like a big deal. She was a big
deal for her especially.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Gay lesbian moments.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, Tea, she was attractive. Yeah, and was Rachel Zoe
around two at that time, Okay, and then Patti Stinger,
Patty Singer, Tabitha. Oh, I forgot about Tabitha was there
that early? Yes, Tabitha well, because she.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Had been on Blowout, or she your genius. That's what
I meant.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
She's one of my favorites.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
He's my favorite, I think personality of all time.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, when do you get her on Jeff Lewis Live.
She was on Jeff Lewis Live. She was going through
a hard time when she was on.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I think someone girlfriend her wife wife, So, but yes,
she's she's been on.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I really like her, I've always really liked I want
her to take over. We've got along, We always got
along very well. Rachel was. I think the first time
I met her she was a bit chilly, but I
actually think she's shy because then when I met her
the second time, she was much more friendly. So first
and when I first met her, I'm like, oh, she's
a bitch whatever, But then the second time she was
(05:28):
so friendly that I my deduction was that she was shy.
I have I don't really have much interest in women's
fashion either. However, her passion is really I find it
so interesting and I would find myself just kind of
captivated with her because she's so somebody who loves their
craft and she really is good at what she does,
(05:51):
and I found it to be, yeah, a bit captivating.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Well to be honest, I'm the same way with houseful
and design. But I'm entertained by you and I like
your show. So like watching someone do what they do well,
doesn't matter what even like Tabitha working out, you know, like, no,
you're not really seeing anyone work out or do anything in.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
The day, right, But when you when you when you're
watching these people that are, you know, top of their
game and their experts in their field, and they're you know,
you just kind of I don't know, I respect their
passion and their drive and their ambition and their dedication totally.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
What was the like ballpark pay scale for a reality
show in the early two thousands on Bravo.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Mine was. My situation was a little different. Why because
they had sold the show before I had a contract.
So I've talked about this. This was a very big
mistake by the production company.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
So you didn't leverage anything going into like the show
is nothing without me. They had a show and if
you want to be on it, here's your pay.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah. So what happened was is they had offered me
I think it was thirty five hundred for the pilot,
twenty five hundred per episode, and I took you know,
this is in two thousand and seven, and I was unknown,
completely unknown, So I and.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Shows like that were unknown. There weren't a bunch of
shows on TV like that.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And I took the contract home and I, you know,
I just didn't sign it. I didn't read it, I
didn't do anything, and I just it just sat on
my desk. And then they would The production company went
out and they sold the show before they had their
talent attached. So when they came back and they said
we have an offer from Bravo for six episodes straight
to series, I said great, I said, but I can't
(07:34):
work for this kind of money. So I ended up
starting in eighteen thousand, five hundred episode in two thousand
and seven. That's pretty good money for an unknown first season. Yeah,
and then it just went up from there.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Wow, okay, that's pretty good though. You got your way
up to eighteen five. I just wonder what Jackie made.
I'm I'm nowhere near that I would think. I mean,
obviously you get raises after every season. Yeah, so I
don't know what was emy seasons was floping out on
eleven eleven seasons, Yeah, damn, Workout was only up for
three and they were like eight episodes each.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, it's funny because you know, I've talked about this also,
but you know, Andy said that these you know, these
docu series only last maximum three seasons. So he said,
you take advantage of the opportunities, and that's what I did.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Well, that was probably true. It is true, And your
show is a little bit of an anomaly, right, And
we didn't we didn't really produce or set anything up.
And it was shot like a documentary, which I don't think.
I don't know if they do that anymore because it
took a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I mean, you're looking at ten days long days for
one episode.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Right, And would you consult with them about here's the
story arc of this general? Ever?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Ever, in fact, in the beginning, they would, they would
they had actually put together a story arc. And I'm like,
what what are you? What are you talking about? Right? So, no, no, no,
this that's not the show. Like you're going to follow me, right,
and you know you're going to have to work with
whatever I give you or whatever. And you know, I
think the secret was is to always stay very busy. Yeah,
and I always had a lot of personalities around me
(09:04):
and big personalities, but just a lot of people in
general with a very busy life, and it just kind
of wrote itself.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, I produced D List and that shit was very
written out. Yes, from all the beats were written out,
but it worked that way for us.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
We liked it, and I liked Life on the D List.
I did like that show, So that was Kathy was
one of those people back in the day. The thing
what I have experienced with Kathy is that, you know,
and I think maybe in comedians in general, because sometimes
I'm sure you might have comedians on your show, sometimes
they come with like these these pre written bits, they
don't work, and they very much try to pivot yea,
(09:41):
so they can, you know, they can perform their bits.
But the thing about Kathy is and I got to
know her behind behind the scenes because we became friends.
I kind of consulted in our house, and she's so
funny off the cuff, totally. Actually, I think she's funny.
The funnier stuff is not you plan funnier off the cuff.
And I always thought to myself, like these comedians, especially
(10:05):
somebody like Kathy, who's so smart and witty, you know,
you don't even need to pre write this shit no,
you're so good.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Well, I'll say we didn't pre write any like jokes,
but we we set up the story kind of arc
about like she's going to go to the Apollo, and
then we would write it out like will how will
that go? You know what I mean, like you kind
of point towards different things that could happen, and then
she always thought of stuff in the moment that was
really funny and better than.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I feel like, you know the really I think the
closest thing we got to producing is if let's just
say Ryan and I had some sort of tiff about
something and they would want, you know, hey, you know,
is there any way we could get a little more
of that? And then But what was great about it
is they gave me such freedom. So it wasn't like, okay,
(10:52):
tomorrow at eleven o'clock, I would just know we've got
a film. We got five days filming this week. At
one point, when it feels and organic, if you could
just you know, talk a little bit more about that,
so I would get very kind of a little bit
of direction if they felt they needed something. Sure, but
we mostly delivered, and I think you know, we also
(11:17):
didn't make much waves. They didn't believe it or not.
Like Jenny and I kind of kept our head down
and we didn't cause any problems, and we just we
delivered year after year. We didn't you know, we weren't
calling Andy or calling Bravo executives. We weren't complaining. We weren't.
I mean, towards the end things got a little contentious,
but for the most part, I would say they never
(11:40):
really heard from us, and I think it was smart
to stay under the radar because they just thought this
show is doing well. They're easy. They don't bother us.
And I also made the point too with Andy, which
I think is why Andy and I became You know,
there were times in our lives where we've been close.
(12:00):
But I think what he appreciated is I never talked
about work with him. So if I was in New York,
he'd be like, Hey, let's get a drink or let's
go to dinner, and I wasn't. I didn't talk about production,
and I didn't complain about you know, producers or camera
guys or co stars or we just went out and
had a good time.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
We also have a life, yeah, other things going on.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I think a lot of people thought that Andy favored
me because I was gay, and that really wasn't it
at all. It was really I mean, sure we have
that in common, but we just I think he would
always you know, if I was in New York, we
would always make plans. If he was in LA we
would always make plans. We had some really fun nights
(12:44):
going out together, but who bottomed you're funny, but I don't.
We never hooked up. We never crossed that line I
could we have. I think I was always in relationships,
So I think early on there was probably a mutual attraction,
(13:04):
but that wasn't the basis of our friendship, our relationship.
But I think there was a bit of a mutual
attraction in the beginning. But you know, and he's extremely professional,
and I was in a relationship and I was loyal
to the people I was with, and it just it
just never really panned out that way. And I'm glad.
I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, and look at you now, well, you know, little longevity,
the relationship he's given me.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
You know, he's given me like you, he's giving me,
you know, two careers, a lot of opportunities, and I
appreciate that. Yeah, he's the best I have nothing negative
to never say.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
A couple of decades, I was like, when is when
are you going to show that you're really an asshole
deep down? And it never has ever happened. And now
he's just the greatest friend of.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Ever get me wrong. He can be bitchy, he can
be sure, he can be distracted. I mean there's a
lot of you know, but no, I don't think it's
ever been an asshole to me. No, No, he loved you.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
What about so you're doing still doing Hollywood Houselift?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
No, that was back to Bravo. That was canceled after
two seasons. And then yes, I've been talking to Bravo.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I know people who discovered Hollywood Houselift and not having
seen Flipping Out and became fans of Viarious.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
They really liked it. Thank you. It was a I
think it was a great show. It just you know,
there was a lot of turnover over Amazon and some
restructuring and things like that FREEV like what is red right?
And then but I'm confident that we're going to put
this show together with Bravo. We're just waiting on the
releases from Sirius, which has been quite a challenge. But
(14:37):
I hear that we've made a lot of progress, because
you know, a big part of my life now is radio.
So you can't do a docu series about my life
and not include radio. But we need access to radio
such so we would need the release from serious, which
I believe, Like I said, in fact, I heard something
encouraging about two days ago that they're pretty close to
putting a deal together.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
If you do another show with Bravo, what would you
do differently than you didn't know during Flipping Out? Get
a better deal up front?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I don't know if I would, you know, I felt
like there was a lot of in hindsight, I there
was a lot that ended up on that cutting room floor.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Well you shot so much because you didn't.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
We shot so much, and I feel like we wouldn't
need to be shooting as much. It was quite a commitment.
I mean you're talking, you know, eight am, they're in
and cameras are up, and a lot of times we
were lucky if they were out by five. I mean
it was sometimes it would go to seven. So they
were very long days and a lot of really funny
(15:39):
moments too that they just didn't have space for. So
I felt like in a way we overshot a bit.
Now it is a fine line because now we've been
talking about kind of these what is it? What does
the production schedule look like. I don't want to film
too little either, because I don't want to be in
a position where we don't have content. And then now
(16:01):
you're creating content because you're setting things up. You're doing
so I said to them, this is going with the
production company. We've been talking to thirty two flavors. You know,
this show is going to require a little bit more
shooting than others others because I don't I will not
fake it. I will not fake it. So that set,
I don't think we need to do five days a week.
Maybe it's four one week, maybe it's three.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
The nexteh, we'll say, have you told Shane that you
have to replace him yet?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I'm sorry, Oh my god, I forgot you were here.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
You Shane is Shane is TV gold. I know, he's
your ace in the hole. Yeah, so to speak. And
then Zoila is still around and I have you know,
it's we always have this cast of characters around me
with you know, big person big personalities. I love people
to make me laugh, and you always pick good people.
Entertaining people been on your radio shows. I mean, I
(16:52):
don't know about good people, but they're you know, some
are good, some are bad, some are uh, they're all
seem to be entertaining. They're not boring, they're not boring,
you know, and they're all hot. Except in this business
what we do, you know. Unfortunately, you have people that
will apply under the guise of I'm interested in flipping
houses or I'm interested in, you know, in turning behind
(17:15):
the scenes at radio, whatever, but really they want to
be on radio and they want to be on TV.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Well that's what Jennie says. She said, all the trainers, trainers,
they were actors on TV.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Well that wasn't the case with Flipping Out. I mean,
Jenny really did work for me, so did her husband.
We had a few that, although they did they were
never actors. But although they did the job, I realized
that they had different career aspirations and so maybe they
weren't that passionate about design and house flipping, but really
(17:49):
wanted to be on Flipping Out. And there was there
was one or two of those that we sniffed out
and we took care of that. We replaced them Jenny
and I were very proud about because the show was
so authentic, and I think that was one of the
reasons why it resonated with so many people. That and
all the characters, because you know, if you didn't like Zavillia,
liked Jenny, if you didn't like Jenny, you liked Sarah,
(18:11):
whatever it was. You really never know what is going
to happen in this business. And you know, after a
while in season eleven, well, I was in the process
of negotiating a new deal with Bravo and it was
including two guaranteed seasons of Flipping Out. So I was
actually rather kind of shocked when they didn't pick up
(18:31):
season eleven. And there's things that are out of our control.
So you think that your show is going to go
on and on and on, but a co star could
do something that then causes the show to be canceled,
and or network executive. You know, maybe you have this
(18:51):
this network executive that's championing your show and they leave,
and now someone new comes in and they want to
go in a different direction before you never really know.
So the one thing that I I'm so glad I did,
which again is partly because of Andy you know Andy
kind of telling me that this thing is done after
three seasons. That I never gave up my day job,
and when it was canceled, it could have been devastating
(19:15):
had I not had a career already. So you know,
it was certainly was. There was some getting used to
the new life, but I was never worried about paying
my bills, which I imagine there's a lot of people
out there that have become full time reality stars, which
is not a real career.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Well, not to bring it back to Jackie, but she
moved back in with her parents in Ohio, and when
I interviewed her, she was in like the basement of
her Maybe I think she might live on her own now,
but yeah, I think that. You know, she tried to
keep her day job, but it didn't work out as well.
Oh really, well, she got a dui. She lost a
lot of money. Like her business was tied into wellness
(19:56):
and health, and if you show up at seven eleven
in your panties and flip flops on ambient drunk and
get arrested, people don't want to go to you for
lifestyle and health and wellness advice, right, So yeah, no,
that probably wouldn't be the first person to go to
I mean I would maybe, but yeah, I think it
kind of dinged interest to her reputation a little bit.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Look, I hope that people evolve learn mature life coach. Now, Oh, well,
you know what, she probably has a lot of experiences.
That's what she said. Through it. She's made mistakes. Yeah,
you know, she was self destructive. She and she's good
at telling people here's what you need to do. You know,
can you life coach me? Oh, I don't know if
you want me to. Can I have a laboo boo?
(20:41):
I do have some. I've got more coming to Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
When I moved to New York, will you give me
some design tips from my small two bed two inch apartment?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
There was a I don't know, there's a theory of
why you moved. Why that Oscar was making.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I'm getting I'm getting transgender surgery oscars.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
He's a little obsessed with you, and that he was
making you uncomfortable, and that that was the theory that
was flying around today here at serious exam and that's
why you moved. Well, I'm gone, the joke's on you,
because I think he has actually is he moves into
your life for a transfer. He's actually you might have
to go to Nashville or Miami. This is the best
and I will miss this when I go to New York.
Is Oscar following you?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Well, I was not gonna say this, But which do
we say that? Who Oscar is?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
We're actually going to live together? Oscar is our? Is
he one of our producers? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (21:32):
And he was, and he was one of your producers? Yeah,
he was my board app But then I think it
was a job. What's it called promotion? Well, to go
to you? He went to a permanent part time. Yeah.
It's so shady. They do that so they don't have
to give anybody benefit. Of course, that's exactly why they
do it. Do serious pay benefits for you? No?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, same, I don't get anything. And do they salary you?
And do you get days off? Do you get like
a paycheck every two weeks?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
I get a paycheck once month.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Do you do you have to bill for your shows? No?
So you have to build from my show.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I honestly don't know how it happens. I don't even
I just like randomly get money. Sometimes there's no invoicing
and there's no like I don't invoice them and they
don't really send me a paste up. It just kind
of appears in your account. Okay, and the amounts consistent.
It is consistently. I get random. I can you know
what now that I think about? Like quarterly, I get random?
Sh random? Where's it coming from?
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I get a drugs?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
What's it for? And I don't know how.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
To You might be getting a percentage of advertising I
am not getting. Well that would explain the random number.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I don't know. Okay either way, But are you happy?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I am happy? Yeah, I'm happy too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
You know how this has been a little easier to
deal with?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Is Bravo? Yeah, they're loosing it up. Yeah. They used
to own us. I mean they would put us in
a cage.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
It would snobby too about their content too. Like now
I feel like they're a little bit more flexible.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
They used to. I mean they handcuffed me for years,
and now they're a little bit I feel like they're
little looser. Like I think they're starting to see the
bigger picture, like, Okay, let Jeff go do this show
because that brings more eyes and ears to our network.
So I feel like they're a little more open minded now,
but I think they were a little fear based, like
so afraid of losing us that they wouldn't let us
(23:16):
outside the building, right, and they would not let us
do anything else really without permission. And most of the
time it wasn't out.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I'm excited to see what happens for you next. I
feel like this is.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
A whole new era. Well, I want you know, what
I would like to do is I'd like to keep
and it depends who owns it and all of this,
but I'd like to keep the same title and just
do Flipping Out season twelve. Oh really after a seven
year pause? Seven or six?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I think, Yeah, did you kick around any other titles?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
No? Why would we It's already branded, it's already like
you're going to get a guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
And it's about the same thing.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
So that's my question.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Is it, even though radios may be involved, is it
going to be still flipping houses?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah? I mean it's still a little flip, it's still
a little design, it's still a little you know, it's radio,
it's still home life. It's the same show. It's just
you know, minus a few characters. But then We've added
on a few new characters over the years organically, like
this is what's happened. This person laught, this person got.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Hired, and this is such a good home base too,
Like the radio show is a good tent poll for
whatever episode is happening. You guys are always kind of
like discussing in processing.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
You're right, we're discussing. I have two hours each day,
so we're discussing whatever is going on in my life
on the radio. So that's what you need, the radio.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, I mean, people are so obsessed with the RAI.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
It's just they see it.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I mean, chump con right, you have people willing to
travel the country to go convene and goon all over
your face just to be near you.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Just I didn't think of it that way. Goon on
my face, but yeah, they do, like attending.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Do white women. Goon not gonna be the title of
this episode.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I'll let you go.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Thank you so much for your time. Are you kicking
me out? I was just you go back your day.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I don't care, but you answered.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
I answered even more than I had thought.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Okay, wow, thanks for having me here in the conference room.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I'm serious.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
ExM You're welcome, thanks for joining. Come back move October November.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Maybe what what's the hold up? The I was looking
a little bit and then where you haven't found an
apartment yet?
Speaker 1 (25:20):
No, I need to go back and like find an
apartment that I like. I wanted my contract to be
done when I got because like it was going to
be over in October. So I was showing landlords like, hey,
I have a job that might end, but if I
go in October, I'll say, here's a job that maybe
it's for three more years. Yes, it'll look cuter and
the I think the apartments will there will be better
things available.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
When I was.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Looking downtown in the village and Chelsea, it was all
NYU girlies who were so rich and we were competing
for the same like studio because in their minds they
were looking at room and board that their parents have
saved for twenty years and they were like, oh, six
grand a month, that's not that bad, you know, Like.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
What are you looking at for nice apartment in New York?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Where are you gonna live? You say, I can't. I'm
too old, i don't have the energy to live in
like Queens or Brooklyn. I'm not living. I can't, Okay,
so I have to. I'm gonna have to live downtown somewhere.
I might maybe Upper West Side if i'm If i'm.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Out, what is a nice one bedroom apartment? Five six Five's.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
The average Manhattan rent? I pay twenty three hundred a
month now, and I love my apartment here.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
I love it. But you'll will you you'll get rid
of your car? Right?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Oddly enough? I like having a car in New York.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Okay, so yes, because now you're going to pay for parking.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Well, the thing is in New York parking there is
minimum three fifty a month. Yes, that's such bullshit. So
I think I will get rid of.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
The car, right, do you want it? You can get repoed.
Oh you have the teak one. It's the tows of
the tows.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I love my tows. I never want to But is
it a lease or do you own it? It's a lease.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
When's the least up fucking two years from now? Shit,
you might be able to get someone to just take
over the lease. I think so or.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I had a friend who was like, if you drive
it into the dealership and it has no.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Miles on it, oh, they might buy it out. They
might just be like, yeah, we'll take it back. They
did that with Doug's Audi. They bought it back, but
just because he wanted to trade it in early. But
if not, you could get someone to take over your payments.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Are you interested in the car?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
But we're always running in people that need cars. What
year is it?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
It's a twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Oh, it's like brand new.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
It's I just got in October. Holy shit, it's a
great car.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
What's the payment?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Five hundred a month?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
That's great, it's a great payment.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
I know.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Well, okay, I'm going to think about this and I'll
let you know.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
It's in perfect condition. And I love Volkswagen. I love
that you drive it too, and you're like it says
it needs washer fluid. You handle it and they'll do it.
Oh service wise, Yeah, you just kind of like make it.
You're like your car is there's something that happening with
your car?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
All right? So you're waiting for your contract to be
renewed before you move. Yeah, I just want to otherwise
you look unemployed. Yeah, I think it'll look better.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
It's gonna look a lot better for landlords. And I
want a good place. I want to love where I live.
I don't want to be like, ugh, I love living
in New York, but I hate my abart man.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I did that in my twin.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, I got it.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Being at home.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I stay at it's going to be I don't go out.
I think you're going to It's the end of the year, right,
November December.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Remember December, it'll be cheaper, there will.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Be well, Oscar will be happy that you're not leaving.
Well until December.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
We'll have cuffing season together here, one last cuffing season.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I tried to set him up with somebody. He said
that and the guy was only ten years older than him,
and thirty six. Oscar's like twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Well whatever, everyone's on their own path, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I just think by the time you're twenty se is
this a SPRAYTN? Oh, that's two spray tns.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Okay, wait, just see you know I'm not going to
sun Kiss by Jenny anymore. I got a membership at
Sugar and Bronzed. Oh, I'm obsessed.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I love it. Oh, I don't even know what sugar
it is. What is sugaring.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
It's when they take the hair off your whole It's
like waxing.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Does it hurt?
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I also, I don't want to get on all fours,
but with some like teen girl is like ripping my.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
It's funny you say that because I have a grey
tanner that comes to the house and I like her
because she's more age appropriate. She's in her forties, she's
you know, she's been doing this forever. I have no
problem getting naked in front of her. But then probably
she travels a lot. Yeah, and when she's not there,
this cutest, sweetest girl comes over. It was like, yeah,
it was like twenty three, and I'm like, I got
to wear my underwear' this is too weird. Well, I
(29:19):
always wear my underwear. Oh no, I'm I'm you go naked,
fully naked? Do you have a brown dig Yeah? And
ask what?
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Oh see?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I like a little tan line. I don't want a
tan line. I don't want a tand line. I don't
like tan lines, and so I don't want an orange
but I don't. But I also don't want to show
my orange my orange penis to this cute little twenty
three year old girl for free least. I just feel
like a predator. It feels weird exactly, So I leave
my underwear on for her.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I always leave the underwear on, and it's like you're
also you're just the two of you naked. It's it's vulnerable.
But I don't think I could handle that. I can
deal with I don't think I can handle my bare
rectum in some like sweet young lady's face, you know,
I ask her to rip the hair out.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Jenny does it all the time. So Jenny Off Jenny
spray tan is the one that comes to my house. Yeah,
and do you do the little squat too? Sing it underneath? Yeah.
She makes you pop up your yeah. Yeah, so you
don't get a little creepy. Yeah, I don't get any
lie it flaps.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
But I highly recommend. I love sun Kis by Jenny.
I think it was one of the best spray tans
I've ever had in my life. But sugar and bronze.
If you are addicted like I am, and you need
like a maintenance one every other week because you feel
but fucking ugly.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
I feel so much better after a spray tan too.
But I always have someone spray me. You go into
there and to the machine thing.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Oh, they spray you. A girl sprays me. Oh yeah,
and there's one there everywhere. It's a chain.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
I just don't want, you know, so many people seeing
my penis. I just so I use spray tan. Now
this is worn off, Yeah it's it's wearing off. But
you still have some color, tiny bit, you still have color.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
I'm going to the beach. I'm going to pee town
on Fire Islands. I'm waiting to see you trying to
bank them right before? When do you go this fourth
of July weekend and week for are.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
You taking Oscar? Oscar and I are We have a
bunk golgeous us. Oh my god, that's so cute.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
We're going to get a TP on the beach and
just bear back for the whole week.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
All right, I'm gonna go now you Thank you so much.
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
The shirt is kind of dirty.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
I might smell you always so cute.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Thank you for joining me. Wow, fascinating show. Pony is created, conceived, produced, performed,
edited and delivered and presented by yours truly, John Hill.
Support me on the Patreon, listen to me on sirius
xm dm me. What you want to see more of
(31:41):
besides Jeff? Who else do you want to see on
the pot and besides Taba the coffee. Don't worry, I'm
working on it. Jesse's coming up soon. I'm supposed to
interview him tomorrow. Apparently Rebecca's interested in coming on the show.
I hope you enjoyed this very special episode of Show Pony.
We'll see you next week. Each Peace,
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