July 6, 2025 • 46 mins
One of Workout’s original breakout stars, Jesse joins John for his first in-depth, on-the-record conversation about the show — and it’s not what anyone expected. John thought this would be a light, campy reunion. Instead? Tears were shed. Spiritual truths were dropped. And what unfolded was one of the most surprising, moving, and human interviews Show Pony has ever done. Jesse opens up about fatherhood, marriage, and how his time on Bravo shaped him — for better and worse. This isn’t just nostalgia. It’s transformation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Greetings from beautiful Lake Arrowhead. I'm just kidding beautiful Fire
Island Pines, where.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I am on vacation.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
But because I'm dedicated to my craft, here's a free episode.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, I guess they're all free anyway. Thanks for joining me.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I'm technically recapping episode five of season two of Workout.
This episode, there's a lot of training the Skylab clients.
They go on a field trip to Lake Arrowhead, a
lot of tears about weight gain, shocking devastating surprises where
people thought they had lost weight but like tests.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Oopsie gained fifteen pounds in a week.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Of course, we're still following Jackie and Rebecca's burgeoning relationship.
They do what every good lesbian does in their second
week of dating. They go to a fond due night
and put chocolate on their teeth and pretend like they're toothless,
and then they make out. This is the first time
we see Rebecca and Jackie making out in bed. And
then Jesse confronts Rebecca at a restaurant, calls her a
(01:19):
slut and a whore, and she throws water in his face.
Speaking of Jesse, look show Pony brought to you by
Seafour Energy, Seafour Energy, the only drink that has ever
made me diarrhya in my pants at the gym. Speaking
of Jesse, this is another special episode. I sat down
(01:39):
with Jesse right before my vacation, and I didn't know
what to really expect, but it was one of the
best conversations I've ever had with someone, very unexpected, very surprising,
and very touching. Without further ado, I'm gonna go skinny dipping.
Enjoy Jesse's interview.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Okay, but then I started working together. I think the
host the Redoo Shop.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Two years so you on the show?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, and his co host in the morning.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
All right, cool? How was he?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
He's great, He's really good. He has two kids.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
You have kids?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
How do you have kids? Your day?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah, this is a miracle. Tell him. I said, Hi,
I've got Andy really really wasted once.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Now see it?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
That is it? Yeah? No, that was one of my
That was was really funny. I he so, Okay, So
I'm not sure what the what you want out of
this or what you ask you A bunch of questions,
asked a bunch of questions.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
It's very general because I never watched workout. Really, no,
this is my It's not even a rewatch.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It's just a watch like.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
First time watch.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yes, okay, cool, So I'm like, and what do you think?
I think a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
My thoughts are that Jackie is a great TV personality.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Wonderful TV person amazing on TV.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I think the fitness industry from back then is they
would make fun of people and like they would the
way they would talk about their way and say the
word fat all the time. Like that's obviously changed for
the better. So that's kind of like I see a
lot of progress since those days. Yeah, yeah, no, there
was some like real literal fat shaming.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Dark stuff. Well the second season.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I am so I'm on episode five of the second season,
second season.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Okay, so yeah, so that second season, right before we
started filming, the producers, who, by the way, took really
good care of me.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, I felt like they.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Were really had my back, and they had my back
in a few different ways, and I'll share all of
those ways. But yeah, but we go in and they
talked to me like catching up on like life stuff,
like what are we going to cover this season with me?
And they're like, well, we need to. This was like
(04:22):
the day before filming, like well we need to address
your your the weight issue.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I was like, what issue, That's what I said.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I was like weight issue. I was like, oh my god,
what was funny? Was I mean? I was, I mean
I'm heavier now, I mean I'm forty five now.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
It was just a wacky thing.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
So, I mean, and also maybe they thought you were
they were trying to force you into a mold of
like hot you had to look a certain way for TV.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Well, there was that for sure. The body dysmorphia on
that show was really fucked up.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
You can tell.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
But yeah. But but I mean, I think the dysmorphia
in the entertainment industry and in the fitness industry. I
don't know, maybe it's changed. I'm not in it anymore.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, but that time it was really intense.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
It was really intense. What I can say now in
retrospect that that was like the outward manifestation of my
inWORD condition, like all of my self judgment, all my fear,
all of like the self loathing, all of that. Ye
like I saw I was watching it on TV. But
the response was really messed up too. I got some
(05:31):
like this was before you could really get access to
people because it's social media. To social media. So I
got a few people found me and emailed me and
said thank you for being like a you know, role
model for gay men that you know that we're not.
We don't all have to be like these perfect chiseled whatever.
(05:53):
But I also got like death threats.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I got people are crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
It was insane and I was like, this is literally
my worst nightmare.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
And death threats because you're gay some of it, or
because they thought you were fat the.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Fat No, no, death threats from the fat No, are
you serious because I gained weight?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Death threats.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Yeah, death threats.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And I imagine writing someone that you know what, you're.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Fat and you need to die. Yeah that's what it said,
Like you should kill yourself and if you don't, if
I see you on the street, I will.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
How would those get to you, like through Bravo blog
things like.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
That, like they would have. I believe there was a
blog that we contributed to some I think that.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
There was Back then everyone was doing a blog.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I think there was my Space.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
You do really know you were signing up for that?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, and you looked great?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Thanks? Yeah, I uh, it was interesting. I wish that
my response to it was work on myself, and some
of that came of it was I don't want to
give anything away. I don't want to give it anything away.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Because I don't know anything. I know that well, I
know Doug passes. That's where I am now or he's
in a coma.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah, so fucked up in random and you guys were.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Okay, So here's my question for season two. You guys
were in like a fight. Did you ever make up
before he passed?
Speaker 3 (07:09):
I don't remember us being you remember that you had beef?
Did Doug and I have beef?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
You had beef?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Did we like yell at each other?
Speaker 1 (07:17):
The whole storyline in episode two three of season two
is you and Doug like, are in such a beef
and you can't speak. You're so mad at him because
he did an interview where he referred to you as
Jack from Will and Grace.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Oh that's right, Oh that's right. Oh I do remember that,
and I thought that was really fucked up. That's really
really funny. So okay, I'm gonna give you some dish. Okay,
So I'm sober now, me too, eighteen years My god, congrats,
I got sober after the second season of Workout.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Okay, Well, I have another. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
So the third season of Workout, yeah, I'm sober for
the first that's my first year in sobriety. The second season, now,
I remember watching certain episodes and I'm like slurring my work.
There was there was an event we went to the
first season that I blacked and this is why I
said the producers took care of me because I blacked out.
I don't remember what was said. I don't remember what
(08:10):
I did. I do remember it was not great. Yeah,
and good TV. It would have been great TV, though,
but it wasn't great for me being.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
On reality TV while trying to get sober. I've been
saying this about the Valley, and do you watch Bravo
anymore or do you ever watch Don't? Okay, Well, there's
a guy named Jacks. He's on the Valley and he
his life's falling apart and he had to go to rehab.
But the rehab like let him use his phone. And
I keep saying, like, being on a reality show while
trying to navigate that I think would be the hardest thing.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Well it was also, I mean it was a sobering
thing for me seeing myself what I saw on Workout,
especially the first two seasons was I was like a
version of myself that I didn't like. Yeah, and a
version of myself that I didn't identify with.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, well you can get it.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Had to turn my.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Phone, that's fine, I can cut. I mean, I guess
I can say this to you because I like that ring.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
When I'm looking at those first two seasons, everyone was
so messy, Jackie included, and it was very much centered
around that kind of drinking. Because I wasn't a big alcoholic.
I was like a drug person. I was like a
pill popper.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I was everything.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
I mean, I would drink, but I wasn't like it
just seemed very It seemed very boozy and very cochy.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Did those first couple of seasons seemed a lot of
like that type of stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
That's a fair assessment. I'm not going to throw anybody
out of sure, but that's a fair assessment.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Well, just looking at and like again, I lived here
during that time, and I know those spaces they were in,
like that strip club, and I you know, I just
know some of those places and I know it was
going down.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I mean I and how old were you when you
shot season one.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Twenty six, twenty six.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Wow, yeah, baby, And were you trying to be an
actor or anything? Were you what was your goal prior too?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Well, it was interesting like in my early twenties. Yes,
and I moved to New York. I did a play.
I got it like a little ride up, came back
out to Los Angeles to I was actually meeting with
the WB getting ready to test. W Yeah, I was
screen test for them. But I got this manager and
he just got in my head and he just said
(10:16):
I had to go in the closet. I had to
get a girlfriend. I couldn't go to West Hollywood anymore.
Like things were starting to happen for me, and if
I was going to really pursue this, then I needed
it was right before everyone started coming out of the class,
and I just believed him. Sure, and something happened. I
clicked in my brain and I couldn't audition anymore. Like
I'd show up and I would be trying to be
like straight presenting and I just couldn't tap into I think,
(10:40):
what made me a really charismatic, good actor to begin with.
And so I went to culinary school. I loved cooking,
and so I went to culinary school and literally my
last day of culinary school. I then picked me up
to go to the set of Workout.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And you were also a trainer.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I was training during that, I mean, because I was
an actor. I love working, I loved exercise, I liked
I was at Barry's boot camp. That's where they found me,
the producers family.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I was going to say, you like in a class
or were you.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, one of the like a friend of one of
the producers came to my class and was like, you
need to meet Jesse because they they she knew they
were looking for like a young gay component, and so
that I went in and they offered me the role.
Like they offered me the part like the next day.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
And what did they tell you was going to be
your chops or like they were just like, we're going
to document you training.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yeah, it was all yeah, it was so vague and
it wasn't really it was still new, you know what
I mean, the whole unscripted. The Bravo reality formula, which
I don't doesn't really except on Bravo, doesn't really exist
many other prices.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
I mean, now there's like vander Pump Rules, which is
kind of like a workout, but it's all script.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
It feels like it's like, I mean, I think everyone's
in on it now, like they know the formula, they
know that, like the producers have story art.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Y'all didn't even have iPhones. Yeah, you didn't have any
social media.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I remember Jackie and I had the same flip phone.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Oh, look at us with the same Razor flip phone.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
It was really nice.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
So anyways, Okay, so I was I got sober watching
myself on season two is what like prompted a big
part of my sobriety getting sober, and I'm glad I did.
And I won't give anything season three away, but I
have a little bit of a i'll say maybe a
redemption at least a personal intemptioner. And season three I
(12:28):
also get to work with somebody that we do sort
of a transformation thing that I would tell you too
much about, but it felt real to me and like
I really committed myself to the experience and it paid off.
I had a really I mean listen workout. As challenging
as that format is to participate in, it opened a
lot of doors for me.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Well, I had like solid ten years where I was
working in television, solid you know, like I went from
the Bravo to the Food Network, and then from the
Food Network to the Open Winfree Network, and I did
a lot of stuff in the media. I did a
lot of stuff for online platforms and magazines and had
a really great career in that in that lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Do you miss it?
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Not really, I'm good at it.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
But I don't know if I would say I miss it.
I know that I can going from the camera and
knock it out of the park every time. I can
do what they need. I always know what they need,
and I'm willing to do that now. I wouldn't behave
poorly anymore. And I think the trajectory of my television
(13:38):
career progressively got nicer. Like the Food Network was a
little stressful because they would put us in it was
called Private Chefs of Beverly Hills, and they'd put us
in these really intense event situations. I was I'm a chef,
so as a chef and I would have to navigate
these really and so was stressful. Then the Oprah Winfrey
thing was we went we were helping families that like
(14:02):
really deserved it, and I would be a comp I'd
like get to participate.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
In that did you feel pressure to cause a recus
or to stir up drama or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I think we all wanted as much screen time as
possible because we were all ambitious, and we all wanted
to utilize and maximize the opportunity. You were right, and
so we knew that the more screen time meant more
opportunity to get you know, spokesperson work or to get
(14:32):
you know, endorsement work.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I was noticing that Rebecca was in episodes one and
two of season one, and she kind of disappeared till
the end, and then in season two. My theory is
that she was like, oh, I'll just stay Jackie and
then I'll be on the show more because like now
she's you know.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
A huge part of it.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
That was a big beef for me.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I know, I just watched it.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I'll say this about I'll say this about Jackie Warner.
One of the smartest, funniest, yes, most dynamic people I've
ever met in my life. Hilarious. Her and I clicked
instantly and we made each other laugh and that was
sort of what that was sort of the narrative of
(15:17):
our relationship, and it got a little sour. I don't
know if it's soured, but we just I feel like
we just didn't need each other right after a while.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So how was it a beat? I mean, I am
gonna don't worry about spoiling it. I'm gonna watch it anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
So like when you saw that happening with Rebecca, why
was that a beef?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Because Rebecca wasn't gay, right, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
How does that work?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
I mean, I think Rebecca's and I'll say this about Rebecca,
she's a very smart business woman. Yeah, and Jackie's a
very smart business woman. And they knew they they're not stupid.
Was it authentic? It's not for me to say, but
it didn't. I know Rebecca, and I knew I knew
Rebecca like socially and stuff like that. I'm like, you're not.
There's no there's none of that happening, right, And so
(16:05):
it felt offensive as a gay person to be like, oh,
don't use that that card. But you know what, maybe
I was wrong, Maybe I was wrong. Maybe there was
genuine connection and feeling there, but to me it felt
like you know, I mean, but listen, it was and
maybe I was jealous in the sense of that was
a card that she played that I wasn't. I didn't
(16:27):
have access to know what I mean, and so I
mean I listen. I was like, like you said, you're sober.
The last years, I was wildly insecure. Yeah, you know,
I was very ambitious. I uh, you know, I didn't.
I didn't have the I didn't have the maturity or
(16:48):
the self esteem. If I had maturity self esteem, I
wouldn't have been on the show in the first place.
Is the true? Is the truth of it, because because
it's not like the healthier you get, the less interesting
you become to.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Watch, right, you know, I was just talking about this.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I feel like when I wasn't sober, I was I
was more entertaining.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Like I was doing the radio show like fucked up.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
And there were certain things that were funny, and like
people bring stuff back up and they'll say something was
so funny.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
It just makes me crange, like I would never not.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Even because it honestly wasn't fun Things aren't as funny
as you think they are.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
But wait, when you got sober.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
That first year of sobriety is always so like you're
getting to know yourself and yet you were on camera
and we can talk again when I get season three,
But like, what was that did you have to did
you keep it a secret?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Did you tell everybody?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
No? I told people. I think that's sort of probably
one of the reasons why I'm not going to say.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
That, Oh my god, well it might.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Have been one of the reasons why. You know, Jackie
was very supportive, but she had fun. She was you know,
she enjoyed having a good time, and I wasn't. I
couldn't participate in all of that.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Your connection in season one is really sweet. It's really
you can tell that there's like genuine love.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
There is absolutely Yeah, no, absolutely, I think and I
think that continued to we just we I think we
just enjoyed each other. In fact, I had a podcast
a few years ago and Jackie came on. She told
me yeah, and it was lovely. It was like so
nice to connect with her.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I love talking to her. Yeat.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
She was great and like because she's so smart and
funny and engaging and great. I you know, in two
thousand and twenty ten and twenty ten, I launched a
spiritual center for GBTQ people. That was my That was
sort of what got me out of doing television is
(18:46):
I just felt like everyone was unhappy. Everyone was like
always stressed. So after workout, I got deep into like
this was a result of my sobriety. I got deep
into meditation really like a lot of questions, became a
real spiritual seeker. I found a I found a mentor
(19:08):
who at a Gotpe, which was spiritual center. She was
a reverend at a Gobe and she really took me
under her wing, I mean, I mean and mentored me.
I was like her apprentice, and together we launched a
spiritual community that met out of gay bars. Remember it
was East West Lounge. First. We started there on Sundays
(19:30):
and we had literally a spiritual gathering every Sunday there
East West. Closing down, we went to Hear Lounge, and
then we grew into our own center. But it became
this big thing and into it still it's still happening today.
I just I stepped away from being spiritual director after
ten years.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
But for ten years I literally was a spiritual teacher.
We did meditation to retreats, We developed a training program
for mindful leadership.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And I didn't have say any of this. I had
no idea. I I had no idea what to expect
I'm so happy to hear it.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah, so I did. I did a documentary. I'm featured
as a teacher in this documentary about mindfulness, and I
talk a lot about mindful grieving. Yeah, my husband and I.
My husband and I lost a son, our first son
passed away. It was about seven years ago, seven or
(20:26):
eight years ago. Yeah, it was really it was unexpected
and awful. He had an undiagnosed heart condition and it yeah,
it was. We just thought he was had a stomach
flew and he just wasn't getting better. So I brought
him to the hospital and within two hours he pretty
much died in my arms. And it was awful.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
And that's the worst thing I've ever heard in my life.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
It was awful, but you know it, it was really
interesting though, because I learned something really valuable and it's
such a gift of being queer, and it's I just remember,
like I was leaving the hospital and my sister took
something out of my hand and I looked down and
it was it was his car seat. It was an
(21:15):
empty car seat, and she's like, I'm just gonna take that.
And Chris and I, my husband, we sat down and
we were outside of the hospital and I was like,
I can't go home. I can't go home because it
just happened in a day. It happened so fast. And
he goes. I hear that, he goes. I think, though,
(21:35):
we should do the opposite. I think we should call
everybody and have everyone meet us at home. And within
an hour, Yeah, it was packed full of people and
we just I mean, and this is like, these are
like member, like my trans brothers and sisters were there, lesbian, gay,
all these like and it was all everyone is queer
community and allies and they and it was packed and
(21:58):
we just cried together. We laughed together, we prayed, we
did all of these things. And I was like, and
I know, I'm like, this is such a gift of
being gay, is like being able to create and nurture
your chosen family. And you know, my friend told me
(22:19):
this is really great. She's this teacher and she said,
you know, our relationships are our most valuable currency, most
valuable form of currency. And I believe that. I really
believe that, because if you have good community, you'll never
go hungry. You'll always have a place to lay your head.
And so that's why I like, I love being gay.
(22:42):
So much. I love being queer. I love that I
got to be a little part of queer history being
on a workout because it was the first reality show
with a lesbian as a central care yes.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And one of the only ones there's not like ben
a ton More I know.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
And the perfect person to do it too. She really
was the perfect person to leave that, to lead that shift.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
She's such a sorry.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
She is She's a force of nature, and you know,
so many things come along with that. And you know,
I do want to say that my husband and I
we were able to continue to grow our family and
we have two beautiful boys now, and you know, and
(23:25):
so I just wanted to say that because that is
a sad story. But I like to share the story
because a lot of people don't equate things like that
with gay families and that we I feel like I
want to share it because I want to normalize life
experiences so people understand that people move through that and
it's a beautiful thing. And you know what, I will
(23:47):
say this that he was eight months when he passed away,
but he had a perfect life because he had eight
months of just love, just love, you know, And so
and I think that's a really beautiful thing to be
able to have that, and.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Just talking about this today, like we don't have we
don't communicate well about this in our society.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
It just happened overnight. And how faster to adopt works
is you get a call and three hours later there's
an infant in your.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
House, like, and that's what my nightmare, that's what happened.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And in our scenario, they uh there was they were
brothers and so there our sons are biological brothers, and
the older one was not even two years old. So
we had two babies, babies in our house overnight, and
then that was it for three years. You always want
(24:42):
to be a parent, I did, yeah, And I don't
know why I had that instinct initially, and I explore
that sometimes, you know, I.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Mean some of us, don't I really I wish I did.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, No, listen, I understand. I understand people who choose
not to have kids and feel so free, you know,
I can completely understand how free and that must be.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
But I wish I had, Like I look at Andy
and his kids, and I see that my friend is
having an experience as a human being on earth that
I will never understand.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And I have to just celebrate that for him. But
it's like witnessing it doesn't make me want to. Yeah,
you know, like I truly think I'm good, especially if you.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Get like a real close look at it, then you're like,
oh yeah, yeah, yeah. No.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I also wonder about like I would adopt if I
ever had it.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
I don't think I have great mental health in my genetics.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I think I would be crazy. I think like I'm
doing fine.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
But like, yeah, I mean, but you just never know, man,
You really just never know. Like I mean, I do
believe in I do believe that love is the great healer.
And I feel like love can overcome so much and
compacts and patience can overcome so much. And I've seen it.
(26:04):
I've seen it, seen that work, and I think there's
no right answer. There just is, you know. And I
think that what you choose is the right choice, because
what else could it be. It's the choice you made.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
I think you need to start your podcast back up,
Oh god.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Please, I mean I don't have time for any of
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
You can just talk and upload. I think you. I
think people need to hear from you.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
That's sweet. I got to a place with it because
it is like being on TV doing this, there is
an addictive component to it. I got off social media
last year.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
People really are addicted.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Yeah, I had like twenty thousand followers. Why did I
so stupid?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
And it's good that you're off stay out, It's no.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
It is good. Well you find it in the things
like I'll scroll like New York Times or seeing and
like it's social media. So now I'm getting off that
because that's no boo as well.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
That will just make you well.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
It's all it's all a dopamine thing. It's like trying
to get you to just stay on the phone and
buy shit.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yeah, but I will say, like that's sort of what
being on TV when I was younger. They didn't pay anything. Yeah,
like it was there was no money and there was
no money in it. But I got validated because I
was on TV and that was something that was like
my lifeline because it made me feel sure, meaningful, like
I meaning and purpose.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
We see these people that do reality shows and then
they do they panic. It's almost like that can't be it.
I have to stay in the mix, and so they
start doing the most insane shit. They start looking crazy,
start acting crazy.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I can't believe you're like a saint.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
No, God Jesus, no, not at all. It's hard. Being
a parent is really hard.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
How are your kids now?
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Seven to nine? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Seven, and that's crazy. Yeah, I could ever be a
parent except to you.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
We have a little puppy too, which has been crazy
as well. I my husband really wanted me to do
this because I didn't know what I didn't know what
the fuck this was.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
He goes, do it. He goes because he goes, because
you get to go, he goes. You've never got to
like talk about your perspective of it, yeah, and with
with perspective, like you never got to share like your
thoughts on it from a space of perspective.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
And I'm so happy to hear all of this, and
like people are listening to so many people love the show.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
That's so great. Yeah, I'm hearing what loved workout or
loved They love.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Both, I mean they loved but a lot of people
say they're watching this because they love workout so much.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
That's great. Yeah, that's really great and good. I mean yeah,
it was like such I mean it was. It was
a lifetime ago. It was almost twenty years ago now,
twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
No, I mean, I have so many questions for you,
but I don't. They're so dumb.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
No ask questions, They're no, they're so dumb.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
That's like, no, you already also answered everything. Hold on,
So you and Doug were in a good place.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, No, Doug and I made peace
for sure. I mean I think we we made peace
for sure. Oh I do. Yeah, I just so I
completely forgot about that because all I have memories of
Doug is lovely memories, because he was a lovely and
I think what it was is we went out. We
made out in a bathroom stall. Did and yeah there
(29:24):
was season two like we went we like got tipsy,
we made out in a bathroom stall, and after that
we're like, we're all good.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Right, He's so hot? Yeah he was.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
I mean I mean at that time, I was a
young d yeah, like and he was like an older man. Yeah,
you know, I didn't see I look back and I'm like,
oh my god.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
He was a really beautiful guy.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
But also he was ripped. Yeah, he was fucking ripped.
I never got like, how do people get that ripped?
And he didn't realize Oh, there's like ways that people
get that right.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Right, And I didn't, especially a trainer, like they're they're
all in the know of that, of.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
All of that stuff, and I wasn't. I wasn't in
the know of all of that stuff, and so I
thought there was like so I think I resented that
a little bit too.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Did your family watch watch you on work out? What
did they think? Where are you from?
Speaker 3 (30:11):
I'm from Seattle initially.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I love Seattle.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
I love Seattle too. I moved back in a New
York minute.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
When did you realize that people were really watching it?
Speaker 3 (30:20):
I started getting recognized everywhere?
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Really, Oh yeah, everywhere, especially I mean out here.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
You were a big star.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Yeah it was. I mean, I will say like it was.
I when I came out in when I was a teenager,
and this was in the nineties, I was the only
out person in my school. It was lesbians. Was a
group of my theater teachers like Posse took me under
(30:49):
their wings and they were a bunch of dykes in
Seattle and Heaven, Heaven, and they really took care of me.
And so I always always loved lesbians and the lesbian
community always. I didn't I never knew that there was
like a divide. I just thought we were all you know, like.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
There isn't unless you're in like a toxic county area
like LA.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Yeah, it is really there. It is rather divided in LA.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Gay guys, you.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Don't have lesbian friends. I don't trust. I think it's
a really bad red flag. I love that this is
your story, continues on to me. Yeah, it's like some
other people. I mean, you just have the great you
have such a great success story.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
I love people.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I want you to win an award for something. I
want you to get, like the key to the city
or some.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Husband and I. We did win. In twenty nineteen, we
were awarded Foster Family of the Year in LA for
Los Angeles through the Child Organization.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
It was really lovely. Is that's so sweet?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Yeah, that was a really special That was a really
special thing, and it was so funny. Is We couldn't
really appreciate it because we were so exhausted at the
time and I was like, I was like, we're just
all we did was take the next sydicated step to
create the life we wanted to do. We didn't do
it for we didn't even know this was a thing,
and we feel weird being like awarded Best Foster Family
(32:12):
because all we did is like we just roll with
the punches, you know. And what does your husband do.
He's a writer and waits tables on the side. And
he actually created this great program a few years ago
where he went into Men's Central Jail and he taught
(32:32):
the inmates how to create autobiographical stories, to write and
then perform out loud as a way to heal any
shame around their story. And he did it on the
gay floor of Men's Central Jail. Did you know there
was a gay floor in Men's Central Jail? No, I
don't know floor is a gay floor.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I'm just blown away that, you guys, I feel like
I've done nothing for the world.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Oh stop, listen. Anytime, being a gay man with a
platform is doing something for the world, true visible, being
able to speak eloquently. You know, we need more of it,
because I don't know. Some people say that's what like
shot the you know, that sort of liberal movement in
the foot, But I disagree. I think that any I
(33:19):
think the most horrific and destructive force in the fucking
world is repression, and I think that the LGBTQ community
is the opposite of that. In fact, we've embraced expression,
and so people that are trying to fit themselves in
this unrealistic moral structure that has been cast upon them
(33:42):
by religion or whatever the fuck are so reasonable they
have to try to tear us down because we are
the living, breathing symbol.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Totally of freedom.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
And what's even more free than being like, I am
not this gender that has more. I am something so
much more than that. And so of course trans people
are the new target target.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
It's a threat.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I can't I'm your gay elder, but you have done
more for the gay community than.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Anybody.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
You want to know, this is really cool, Okay, I'm mean,
I'm not bragging. I'm just I just haven't been able
to talk about any of this for so long. So
we developed this program. It was one of the most
special things we did in this organization called Ask the Elders,
and we would it was like quarterly, we would rent
out a haul and we would get a panel of
LGBTQ elders.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
This is so small.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Literally all that we did and there was there was gay, trans, lesbian,
queer by and these are people that are sixty five
or older and literally people in the adults in the
and that would come and there would always be a big,
huge thing just ask life questions, right, like to do
this again. My best friend is a drug addict. I
(34:52):
don't know what to do, and like someone on that
panel knew what how to work with answer, they're gonna
they're going to exactly know what to do. Or like
my lover's dying and and I and I can't cope
and they're someone they're going to tell you what to
do and how to do it. It's just harnessing the
wisdom of those that go before you is so fucking valuable.
And what was really interesting is they said that gay
adults are so fucking distracted that the elders are mentoring
(35:15):
the youth, and that is the opposite of that cannot
be happening. Elders should be mentoring the adults, and the
adults should be mentoring the youth.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
That's such a great idea. I think you should do
it again.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, you know, I mean, I here's the here's here's
the deal. Here's the deal I have with the universe
is if I'm asked, like you asked me, if I'm asked,
I'll go and like the universe knows my schedule, knows
how busy I am, knows whatever.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
So if I'm asked to like everyone's while I get
asked to go speak at a spiritual center or to
be you know, on a panel.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Or telling you it's your calling, thank you.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
We have to harness the wisdom from our past so
we can share it so other people don't have to
make these mistakes what we did. You know that they
get to like so they can evolve even faster, you
know what I mean. And they get and then they'll
have their whole new you know, group of whatever they
have to figure out.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
But I feel so stupid asking you questions about workout.
You have all this wisdom, but it's great. Let's where
it all started.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
I guess, yeah, workout, I mean, listen, work out for me,
I will. I'll say this work out for me, I
hit my bottom and workout I hit my rock bottom
in workout.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
I mean, I get why, yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
But think about it. It was something that was completely
focused on the physical yeah, and on the glamor of
Los Angeles, so like wealth, wealth and looks and all
of that. And I saw what it was doing to people.
I felt what it was doing to me, you know.
And again, so the third season, I get this really
special opportunity to work with somebody.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
We all we have this and it's not Jody Watley.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
It's not Jody Wattley. In the third season, well, oh
my god, you know, I think you're going to see
at the end of the second season. So at the
end of the second season, okay, they filmed all this
stuff with my best friend that I grew up with
and I and what happened was she was diagnosed with cancer.
Oh no, and I actually go to her treatments with
(37:17):
her in Arizona, and it's just very real. Two young
people in their twenties, one coming to the terms with
the fact that she has cancer and a beautiful young
woman has cancer, and me like working through the fact
that my like, it just doesn't doesn't seem real. Thats
someone my age should be going through this at that time?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Did you ever have hesitation putting that out?
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I talked to her about it because they wanted real
things that were happening in our lives, you know, they
did want that, and so I did share, like this
is what was happening.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yeah, so you guys were.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Brave, is what I'm saying, you guys really showed a
lot of vulnerability and authenticity.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
You talk about so many things.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Yeah, it was I was always impressed to see how
much people got out of it, because I would hear
from people in the Midwest, you know, places with people
that couldn't that did not have the opportunities you have
in Los Angeles, and as far as like freedom of
expression goes, and how much it meant to them, you know,
and how just being gay and okay with being gay.
(38:20):
I love that. I had that really shitty experience with
that manager that told me I had to go in
the closet, but when I came out and I was like, no,
I'm just going to be myself. I got immediately on
television and I was like, that says something like it
says something about how interesting authenticity is, the power of transparency,
and how when you are willing, like those moments with
(38:42):
Jackie and her mom were so special because they were
willing to be authentic and people got to actually see
that because so often you're putting on the front of
what you think people want to see on TV, or
the version of you, stuff that you think you need
to be.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I could talk to you all day.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Tell you how I got Andy Cohen.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Super tell me we where were you?
Speaker 3 (39:06):
I was in New York. I was doing like a press. Oh,
so this is how popular workout was. By the way,
listen to this. This is a great how popular workout
was story. I went to go see Spring Awakening the
original cast.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
So two thousand and four ish five ish.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
No, no, no, no, this is two thousand and.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Seven seven, okay, six and seven, because it had.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Been on and it had been on for a couple
of years.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
So this is like season one workout.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
This is after Sea. I think this is after actually
right after season two, okay, during season two, and I
don't think I had great seat okay seats you know,
and sitting there and during it, what was it like?
Leiah Michelle kept like giving me like looking at me,
and I was like, or, well, here's what I was.
I was like looking behind me, like we must be
(39:52):
sitting by like her family or something that's exciting. And
curtain call comes and the girls come out and they
bound they look at me, they go I love you,
oh my god, and I was like it's lovely.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Oh that's nice.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
And then the stage manager comes up to me and
said the.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Cast would love to meet you, Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
And I was like, are you kidding me? And yeah,
they all come up. They're like, oh my god, we
love workout so much, we love the show so much.
Jonathan Groff gave me the eyes as like, oh, that's fun.
If I wasn't with my manager at the time, I'd
be like I'd be following that. I'd be following that
right out the door.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
But uh yeah, And I was like that was I
was amazed at that. I was like, how are these
people aware of who I am? And excited to meet me?
And there was another celebrity there that night too, and
I remember they ran right past him to meet me,
and I was like, that's crazy. That was crazy. But
so I was in New York for some reason and
Andy and I went out and I got Andy so drunk.
(40:50):
I mean, I mean, I mean I'm talking like shots
like Jaeger bomb shots. Yeah, like where drunk drunk? I
don't I think there were I went to therapy back
in the day something like that. And what was funny
Now I look back at these moments that I'm like,
I wonder if Andy met up with me, like to
(41:13):
see if I was like a potential like to date,
you know, probably, and that my self esteem was so
like not there at the time that if it were,
I wouldn't have been able to grasp that. And I'm like,
talk about there are some missed opportunities in my youth.
I'm like, you should have pulled it together a little bit, Dores.
He did introduce me to one of his friends and
(41:35):
we dated shortly, but I actually started working with him,
who Robbie Bates like something the love I have for
Robbie Bates like in my hot but we play right
of a generation. Yes, I mean, just get out of
here other desert cities, my god. One fun story with
(41:58):
Robbie Bates that he told me that we were gonna
go have dinner with a friend. I was like, okay,
So we just go out to like we're out and
Sir Jessica Parker comes to the table and I'm like, okay,
you could have given any a little heads up that
you're gonna drop an s JP bomb on me, but
and she couldn't have been I remember my ex was
her makeup artist, and he said, you know, a real
(42:20):
star and he goes and Sir Jessica Parker is the
embodiment of this. He goes a real star, makes you
think you're the star totally, and that is one hundred percent.
But she was so interesting. She would leaned into everything
I said, and I was like, you're doing it, You're
doing that star thing that that that Jake said, and
it was completely effective. Couldn't be more.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Jonathan Groff is like that too.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
One night, the one night we hung out with it
the Tony's one year and by the end of the night,
I was like, Oh, we're.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Going to get married. We're gonna get married. He's in
love with me. But every single person has that experience
with him, needs him that he's just.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
They just make you feel special.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
You have that, and I feel special. Oh thank you,
you should special special.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
I feel I cannot believe this was the story I got.
I thought you were gonna say, yeah, I kind of
missed reality TV and I love cooking.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I didn't know anything about your family. I didn't know
anything about your spiritual growth. I didn't know you were sober.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
This is like, I'm so happy.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Oh, thank you. Yeah, I don't miss reality TV.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
I'm sure you don't.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Yeah, yeah, So I don't even think it exists anymore,
does it. I mean I mean, I mean, I mean
what I would do, Like if I were to do something,
it would be probably you know, cooking or like kind
of talk show. We like, like a format like this
where I could just sit and talk to people about.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Life or documentary.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
But you kind of just got to make it yourself now, right,
Like you just do it on your YouTube or your
you do what you do, you create a podcast, but
then you have to mark the shit out of it.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
I think I just got to the point where I
did a lot of that stuff and I just couldn't.
I just couldn't do that anymore. It was like too
much work.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Yeah, I do what I love to do. Like I
hated producing TV and I had to stop. It was
like two talks, Like I was a performer before and I
thought I should get a real job, and that producing TV.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
I had written a treatment for a show that sold,
so I.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Started doing that and like eight nine, ten years in,
I was like I hate I hate it so and
I don't just dislike it, like I hate it.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
And so after the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
When I got sober in twenty twenty one, I was like,
I'm only going to do things that I feel like
I'm called to do.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
So here we are.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Are you.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
I'm so glad that you did them invited to me.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Thank you so much. We please come back selfishly.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, just come back at the end, like maybe when
I'm finished, like finish the whole series.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Sure, Like if you want to have any money, if
you want to have I'll tell you this. I won't
tell you why. If you ever want to have to
talk about Natalie, okay, let me know.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I don't know who that is.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Yet, and well I'll tell you the whole thing because
it was really beautiful.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
I know that someone else dies, though I don't know
who it is is.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I know Doug passes, but then like three people have
been like, oh and someone else from workout nice like dreading.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
Yes, don't tell me, yes, tell me yes, But I
don't know. I don't think he. I don't think they
died on the show, right.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
I think later they said yes, my god, don't tell me.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
Yeah. Oh yeah, no, that was fucked up. That was
really fucked up. But yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Okay, So you'll come back, we'll talk about Natalie.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
Yeah, okay, I'm happy. I'd love to come back to talk.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
With for sure. Wow, thank you so much my pleasure.
Wow is this really are you putting on an act?
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Or are you really this great? Sorry my drink fell over.
Thank you so much for joining. I really appreciate Jesse
taking the time to sit down with me. I hope
you learned a lot just like I did. Thank you
to everybody who's been sharing the show. I finally reached
(46:02):
the last little criteria I needed to be able to
monetize on YouTube, and with that I can safely now
announce that I have made arousing seventeen dollars from this
entire podcast, two months and thirteen hours of entertainment for you,
and now.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
She's rich. Thanks for watching.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Support me on the Patreon, share the show, comment like, subscribe,
blah blah blah,
Greetings from beautiful Lake Arrowhead. I'm just kidding beautiful Fire
Island Pines, where.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I am on vacation.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
But because I'm dedicated to my craft, here's a free episode.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, I guess they're all free anyway. Thanks for joining me.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I'm technically recapping episode five of season two of Workout.
This episode, there's a lot of training the Skylab clients.
They go on a field trip to Lake Arrowhead, a
lot of tears about weight gain, shocking devastating surprises where
people thought they had lost weight but like tests.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Oopsie gained fifteen pounds in a week.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Of course, we're still following Jackie and Rebecca's burgeoning relationship.
They do what every good lesbian does in their second
week of dating. They go to a fond due night
and put chocolate on their teeth and pretend like they're toothless,
and then they make out. This is the first time
we see Rebecca and Jackie making out in bed. And
then Jesse confronts Rebecca at a restaurant, calls her a
(01:19):
slut and a whore, and she throws water in his face.
Speaking of Jesse, look show Pony brought to you by
Seafour Energy, Seafour Energy, the only drink that has ever
made me diarrhya in my pants at the gym. Speaking
of Jesse, this is another special episode. I sat down
(01:39):
with Jesse right before my vacation, and I didn't know
what to really expect, but it was one of the
best conversations I've ever had with someone, very unexpected, very surprising,
and very touching. Without further ado, I'm gonna go skinny dipping.
Enjoy Jesse's interview.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Okay, but then I started working together. I think the
host the Redoo Shop.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Two years so you on the show?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, and his co host in the morning.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
All right, cool? How was he?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
He's great, He's really good. He has two kids.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
You have kids?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
How do you have kids? Your day?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah, this is a miracle. Tell him. I said, Hi,
I've got Andy really really wasted once.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Now see it?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
That is it? Yeah? No, that was one of my
That was was really funny. I he so, Okay, So
I'm not sure what the what you want out of
this or what you ask you A bunch of questions,
asked a bunch of questions.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
It's very general because I never watched workout. Really, no,
this is my It's not even a rewatch.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It's just a watch like.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
First time watch.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yes, okay, cool, So I'm like, and what do you think?
I think a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
My thoughts are that Jackie is a great TV personality.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Wonderful TV person amazing on TV.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I think the fitness industry from back then is they
would make fun of people and like they would the
way they would talk about their way and say the
word fat all the time. Like that's obviously changed for
the better. So that's kind of like I see a
lot of progress since those days. Yeah, yeah, no, there
was some like real literal fat shaming.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Dark stuff. Well the second season.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I am so I'm on episode five of the second season,
second season.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Okay, so yeah, so that second season, right before we
started filming, the producers, who, by the way, took really
good care of me.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, I felt like they.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Were really had my back, and they had my back
in a few different ways, and I'll share all of
those ways. But yeah, but we go in and they
talked to me like catching up on like life stuff,
like what are we going to cover this season with me?
And they're like, well, we need to. This was like
(04:22):
the day before filming, like well we need to address
your your the weight issue.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I was like, what issue, That's what I said.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I was like weight issue. I was like, oh my god,
what was funny? Was I mean? I was, I mean
I'm heavier now, I mean I'm forty five now.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
It was just a wacky thing.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
So, I mean, and also maybe they thought you were
they were trying to force you into a mold of
like hot you had to look a certain way for TV.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Well, there was that for sure. The body dysmorphia on
that show was really fucked up.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
You can tell.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
But yeah. But but I mean, I think the dysmorphia
in the entertainment industry and in the fitness industry. I
don't know, maybe it's changed. I'm not in it anymore.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, but that time it was really intense.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
It was really intense. What I can say now in
retrospect that that was like the outward manifestation of my
inWORD condition, like all of my self judgment, all my fear,
all of like the self loathing, all of that. Ye
like I saw I was watching it on TV. But
the response was really messed up too. I got some
(05:31):
like this was before you could really get access to
people because it's social media. To social media. So I
got a few people found me and emailed me and
said thank you for being like a you know, role
model for gay men that you know that we're not.
We don't all have to be like these perfect chiseled whatever.
(05:53):
But I also got like death threats.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I got people are crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
It was insane and I was like, this is literally
my worst nightmare.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
And death threats because you're gay some of it, or
because they thought you were fat the.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Fat No, no, death threats from the fat No, are
you serious because I gained weight?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Death threats.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Yeah, death threats.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And I imagine writing someone that you know what, you're.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Fat and you need to die. Yeah that's what it said,
Like you should kill yourself and if you don't, if
I see you on the street, I will.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
How would those get to you, like through Bravo blog
things like.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
That, like they would have. I believe there was a
blog that we contributed to some I think that.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
There was Back then everyone was doing a blog.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I think there was my Space.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
You do really know you were signing up for that?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, and you looked great?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Thanks? Yeah, I uh, it was interesting. I wish that
my response to it was work on myself, and some
of that came of it was I don't want to
give anything away. I don't want to give it anything away.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Because I don't know anything. I know that well, I
know Doug passes. That's where I am now or he's
in a coma.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah, so fucked up in random and you guys were.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Okay, So here's my question for season two. You guys
were in like a fight. Did you ever make up
before he passed?
Speaker 3 (07:09):
I don't remember us being you remember that you had beef?
Did Doug and I have beef?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
You had beef?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Did we like yell at each other?
Speaker 1 (07:17):
The whole storyline in episode two three of season two
is you and Doug like, are in such a beef
and you can't speak. You're so mad at him because
he did an interview where he referred to you as
Jack from Will and Grace.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Oh that's right, Oh that's right. Oh I do remember that,
and I thought that was really fucked up. That's really
really funny. So okay, I'm gonna give you some dish. Okay,
So I'm sober now, me too, eighteen years My god, congrats,
I got sober after the second season of Workout.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Okay, Well, I have another. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
So the third season of Workout, yeah, I'm sober for
the first that's my first year in sobriety. The second season, now,
I remember watching certain episodes and I'm like slurring my work.
There was there was an event we went to the
first season that I blacked and this is why I
said the producers took care of me because I blacked out.
I don't remember what was said. I don't remember what
(08:10):
I did. I do remember it was not great. Yeah,
and good TV. It would have been great TV, though,
but it wasn't great for me being.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
On reality TV while trying to get sober. I've been
saying this about the Valley, and do you watch Bravo
anymore or do you ever watch Don't? Okay, Well, there's
a guy named Jacks. He's on the Valley and he
his life's falling apart and he had to go to rehab.
But the rehab like let him use his phone. And
I keep saying, like, being on a reality show while
trying to navigate that I think would be the hardest thing.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Well it was also, I mean it was a sobering
thing for me seeing myself what I saw on Workout,
especially the first two seasons was I was like a
version of myself that I didn't like. Yeah, and a
version of myself that I didn't identify with.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, well you can get it.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Had to turn my.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Phone, that's fine, I can cut. I mean, I guess
I can say this to you because I like that ring.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
When I'm looking at those first two seasons, everyone was
so messy, Jackie included, and it was very much centered
around that kind of drinking. Because I wasn't a big alcoholic.
I was like a drug person. I was like a
pill popper.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I was everything.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
I mean, I would drink, but I wasn't like it
just seemed very It seemed very boozy and very cochy.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Did those first couple of seasons seemed a lot of
like that type of stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
That's a fair assessment. I'm not going to throw anybody
out of sure, but that's a fair assessment.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Well, just looking at and like again, I lived here
during that time, and I know those spaces they were in,
like that strip club, and I you know, I just
know some of those places and I know it was
going down.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I mean I and how old were you when you
shot season one.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Twenty six, twenty six.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Wow, yeah, baby, And were you trying to be an
actor or anything? Were you what was your goal prior too?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Well, it was interesting like in my early twenties. Yes,
and I moved to New York. I did a play.
I got it like a little ride up, came back
out to Los Angeles to I was actually meeting with
the WB getting ready to test. W Yeah, I was
screen test for them. But I got this manager and
he just got in my head and he just said
(10:16):
I had to go in the closet. I had to
get a girlfriend. I couldn't go to West Hollywood anymore.
Like things were starting to happen for me, and if
I was going to really pursue this, then I needed
it was right before everyone started coming out of the class,
and I just believed him. Sure, and something happened. I
clicked in my brain and I couldn't audition anymore. Like
I'd show up and I would be trying to be
like straight presenting and I just couldn't tap into I think,
(10:40):
what made me a really charismatic, good actor to begin with.
And so I went to culinary school. I loved cooking,
and so I went to culinary school and literally my
last day of culinary school. I then picked me up
to go to the set of Workout.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And you were also a trainer.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I was training during that, I mean, because I was
an actor. I love working, I loved exercise, I liked
I was at Barry's boot camp. That's where they found me,
the producers family.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I was going to say, you like in a class
or were you.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, one of the like a friend of one of
the producers came to my class and was like, you
need to meet Jesse because they they she knew they
were looking for like a young gay component, and so
that I went in and they offered me the role.
Like they offered me the part like the next day.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
And what did they tell you was going to be
your chops or like they were just like, we're going
to document you training.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yeah, it was all yeah, it was so vague and
it wasn't really it was still new, you know what
I mean, the whole unscripted. The Bravo reality formula, which
I don't doesn't really except on Bravo, doesn't really exist
many other prices.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
I mean, now there's like vander Pump Rules, which is
kind of like a workout, but it's all script.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
It feels like it's like, I mean, I think everyone's
in on it now, like they know the formula, they
know that, like the producers have story art.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Y'all didn't even have iPhones. Yeah, you didn't have any
social media.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I remember Jackie and I had the same flip phone.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Oh, look at us with the same Razor flip phone.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
It was really nice.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
So anyways, Okay, so I was I got sober watching
myself on season two is what like prompted a big
part of my sobriety getting sober, and I'm glad I did.
And I won't give anything season three away, but I
have a little bit of a i'll say maybe a
redemption at least a personal intemptioner. And season three I
(12:28):
also get to work with somebody that we do sort
of a transformation thing that I would tell you too
much about, but it felt real to me and like
I really committed myself to the experience and it paid off.
I had a really I mean listen workout. As challenging
as that format is to participate in, it opened a
lot of doors for me.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Well, I had like solid ten years where I was
working in television, solid you know, like I went from
the Bravo to the Food Network, and then from the
Food Network to the Open Winfree Network, and I did
a lot of stuff in the media. I did a
lot of stuff for online platforms and magazines and had
a really great career in that in that lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Do you miss it?
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Not really, I'm good at it.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
But I don't know if I would say I miss it.
I know that I can going from the camera and
knock it out of the park every time. I can
do what they need. I always know what they need,
and I'm willing to do that now. I wouldn't behave
poorly anymore. And I think the trajectory of my television
(13:38):
career progressively got nicer. Like the Food Network was a
little stressful because they would put us in it was
called Private Chefs of Beverly Hills, and they'd put us
in these really intense event situations. I was I'm a chef,
so as a chef and I would have to navigate
these really and so was stressful. Then the Oprah Winfrey
thing was we went we were helping families that like
(14:02):
really deserved it, and I would be a comp I'd
like get to participate.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
In that did you feel pressure to cause a recus
or to stir up drama or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I think we all wanted as much screen time as
possible because we were all ambitious, and we all wanted
to utilize and maximize the opportunity. You were right, and
so we knew that the more screen time meant more
opportunity to get you know, spokesperson work or to get
(14:32):
you know, endorsement work.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I was noticing that Rebecca was in episodes one and
two of season one, and she kind of disappeared till
the end, and then in season two. My theory is
that she was like, oh, I'll just stay Jackie and
then I'll be on the show more because like now
she's you know.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
A huge part of it.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
That was a big beef for me.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I know, I just watched it.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I'll say this about I'll say this about Jackie Warner.
One of the smartest, funniest, yes, most dynamic people I've
ever met in my life. Hilarious. Her and I clicked
instantly and we made each other laugh and that was
sort of what that was sort of the narrative of
(15:17):
our relationship, and it got a little sour. I don't
know if it's soured, but we just I feel like
we just didn't need each other right after a while.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So how was it a beat? I mean, I am
gonna don't worry about spoiling it. I'm gonna watch it anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
So like when you saw that happening with Rebecca, why
was that a beef?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Because Rebecca wasn't gay, right, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
How does that work?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
I mean, I think Rebecca's and I'll say this about Rebecca,
she's a very smart business woman. Yeah, and Jackie's a
very smart business woman. And they knew they they're not stupid.
Was it authentic? It's not for me to say, but
it didn't. I know Rebecca, and I knew I knew
Rebecca like socially and stuff like that. I'm like, you're not.
There's no there's none of that happening, right, And so
(16:05):
it felt offensive as a gay person to be like, oh,
don't use that that card. But you know what, maybe
I was wrong, Maybe I was wrong. Maybe there was
genuine connection and feeling there, but to me it felt
like you know, I mean, but listen, it was and
maybe I was jealous in the sense of that was
a card that she played that I wasn't. I didn't
(16:27):
have access to know what I mean, and so I
mean I listen. I was like, like you said, you're sober.
The last years, I was wildly insecure. Yeah, you know,
I was very ambitious. I uh, you know, I didn't.
I didn't have the I didn't have the maturity or
(16:48):
the self esteem. If I had maturity self esteem, I
wouldn't have been on the show in the first place.
Is the true? Is the truth of it, because because
it's not like the healthier you get, the less interesting
you become to.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Watch, right, you know, I was just talking about this.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I feel like when I wasn't sober, I was I
was more entertaining.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Like I was doing the radio show like fucked up.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
And there were certain things that were funny, and like
people bring stuff back up and they'll say something was
so funny.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
It just makes me crange, like I would never not.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Even because it honestly wasn't fun Things aren't as funny
as you think they are.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
But wait, when you got sober.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
That first year of sobriety is always so like you're
getting to know yourself and yet you were on camera
and we can talk again when I get season three,
But like, what was that did you have to did
you keep it a secret?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Did you tell everybody?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
No? I told people. I think that's sort of probably
one of the reasons why I'm not going to say.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
That, Oh my god, well it might.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Have been one of the reasons why. You know, Jackie
was very supportive, but she had fun. She was you know,
she enjoyed having a good time, and I wasn't. I
couldn't participate in all of that.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Your connection in season one is really sweet. It's really
you can tell that there's like genuine love.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
There is absolutely Yeah, no, absolutely, I think and I
think that continued to we just we I think we
just enjoyed each other. In fact, I had a podcast
a few years ago and Jackie came on. She told
me yeah, and it was lovely. It was like so
nice to connect with her.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I love talking to her. Yeat.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
She was great and like because she's so smart and
funny and engaging and great. I you know, in two
thousand and twenty ten and twenty ten, I launched a
spiritual center for GBTQ people. That was my That was
sort of what got me out of doing television is
(18:46):
I just felt like everyone was unhappy. Everyone was like
always stressed. So after workout, I got deep into like
this was a result of my sobriety. I got deep
into meditation really like a lot of questions, became a
real spiritual seeker. I found a I found a mentor
(19:08):
who at a Gotpe, which was spiritual center. She was
a reverend at a Gobe and she really took me
under her wing, I mean, I mean and mentored me.
I was like her apprentice, and together we launched a
spiritual community that met out of gay bars. Remember it
was East West Lounge. First. We started there on Sundays
(19:30):
and we had literally a spiritual gathering every Sunday there
East West. Closing down, we went to Hear Lounge, and
then we grew into our own center. But it became
this big thing and into it still it's still happening today.
I just I stepped away from being spiritual director after
ten years.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
But for ten years I literally was a spiritual teacher.
We did meditation to retreats, We developed a training program
for mindful leadership.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And I didn't have say any of this. I had
no idea. I I had no idea what to expect
I'm so happy to hear it.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah, so I did. I did a documentary. I'm featured
as a teacher in this documentary about mindfulness, and I
talk a lot about mindful grieving. Yeah, my husband and I.
My husband and I lost a son, our first son
passed away. It was about seven years ago, seven or
(20:26):
eight years ago. Yeah, it was really it was unexpected
and awful. He had an undiagnosed heart condition and it yeah,
it was. We just thought he was had a stomach
flew and he just wasn't getting better. So I brought
him to the hospital and within two hours he pretty
much died in my arms. And it was awful.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
And that's the worst thing I've ever heard in my life.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
It was awful, but you know it, it was really
interesting though, because I learned something really valuable and it's
such a gift of being queer, and it's I just remember,
like I was leaving the hospital and my sister took
something out of my hand and I looked down and
it was it was his car seat. It was an
(21:15):
empty car seat, and she's like, I'm just gonna take that.
And Chris and I, my husband, we sat down and
we were outside of the hospital and I was like,
I can't go home. I can't go home because it
just happened in a day. It happened so fast. And
he goes. I hear that, he goes. I think, though,
(21:35):
we should do the opposite. I think we should call
everybody and have everyone meet us at home. And within
an hour, Yeah, it was packed full of people and
we just I mean, and this is like, these are
like member, like my trans brothers and sisters were there, lesbian, gay,
all these like and it was all everyone is queer
community and allies and they and it was packed and
(21:58):
we just cried together. We laughed together, we prayed, we
did all of these things. And I was like, and
I know, I'm like, this is such a gift of
being gay, is like being able to create and nurture
your chosen family. And you know, my friend told me
(22:19):
this is really great. She's this teacher and she said,
you know, our relationships are our most valuable currency, most
valuable form of currency. And I believe that. I really
believe that, because if you have good community, you'll never
go hungry. You'll always have a place to lay your head.
And so that's why I like, I love being gay.
(22:42):
So much. I love being queer. I love that I
got to be a little part of queer history being
on a workout because it was the first reality show
with a lesbian as a central care yes.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And one of the only ones there's not like ben
a ton More I know.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
And the perfect person to do it too. She really
was the perfect person to leave that, to lead that shift.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
She's such a sorry.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
She is She's a force of nature, and you know,
so many things come along with that. And you know,
I do want to say that my husband and I
we were able to continue to grow our family and
we have two beautiful boys now, and you know, and
(23:25):
so I just wanted to say that because that is
a sad story. But I like to share the story
because a lot of people don't equate things like that
with gay families and that we I feel like I
want to share it because I want to normalize life
experiences so people understand that people move through that and
it's a beautiful thing. And you know what, I will
(23:47):
say this that he was eight months when he passed away,
but he had a perfect life because he had eight
months of just love, just love, you know, And so
and I think that's a really beautiful thing to be
able to have that, and.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Just talking about this today, like we don't have we
don't communicate well about this in our society.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
It just happened overnight. And how faster to adopt works
is you get a call and three hours later there's
an infant in your.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
House, like, and that's what my nightmare, that's what happened.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And in our scenario, they uh there was they were
brothers and so there our sons are biological brothers, and
the older one was not even two years old. So
we had two babies, babies in our house overnight, and
then that was it for three years. You always want
(24:42):
to be a parent, I did, yeah, And I don't
know why I had that instinct initially, and I explore
that sometimes, you know, I.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Mean some of us, don't I really I wish I did.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, No, listen, I understand. I understand people who choose
not to have kids and feel so free, you know,
I can completely understand how free and that must be.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
But I wish I had, Like I look at Andy
and his kids, and I see that my friend is
having an experience as a human being on earth that
I will never understand.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And I have to just celebrate that for him. But
it's like witnessing it doesn't make me want to. Yeah,
you know, like I truly think I'm good, especially if you.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Get like a real close look at it, then you're like,
oh yeah, yeah, yeah. No.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I also wonder about like I would adopt if I
ever had it.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
I don't think I have great mental health in my genetics.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I think I would be crazy. I think like I'm
doing fine.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
But like, yeah, I mean, but you just never know, man,
You really just never know. Like I mean, I do
believe in I do believe that love is the great healer.
And I feel like love can overcome so much and
compacts and patience can overcome so much. And I've seen it.
(26:04):
I've seen it, seen that work, and I think there's
no right answer. There just is, you know. And I
think that what you choose is the right choice, because
what else could it be. It's the choice you made.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
I think you need to start your podcast back up,
Oh god.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Please, I mean I don't have time for any of
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
You can just talk and upload. I think you. I
think people need to hear from you.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
That's sweet. I got to a place with it because
it is like being on TV doing this, there is
an addictive component to it. I got off social media
last year.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
People really are addicted.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Yeah, I had like twenty thousand followers. Why did I
so stupid?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
And it's good that you're off stay out, It's no.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
It is good. Well you find it in the things
like I'll scroll like New York Times or seeing and
like it's social media. So now I'm getting off that
because that's no boo as well.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
That will just make you well.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
It's all it's all a dopamine thing. It's like trying
to get you to just stay on the phone and
buy shit.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yeah, but I will say, like that's sort of what
being on TV when I was younger. They didn't pay anything. Yeah,
like it was there was no money and there was
no money in it. But I got validated because I
was on TV and that was something that was like
my lifeline because it made me feel sure, meaningful, like
I meaning and purpose.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
We see these people that do reality shows and then
they do they panic. It's almost like that can't be it.
I have to stay in the mix, and so they
start doing the most insane shit. They start looking crazy,
start acting crazy.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I can't believe you're like a saint.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
No, God Jesus, no, not at all. It's hard. Being
a parent is really hard.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
How are your kids now?
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Seven to nine? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Seven, and that's crazy. Yeah, I could ever be a
parent except to you.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
We have a little puppy too, which has been crazy
as well. I my husband really wanted me to do
this because I didn't know what I didn't know what
the fuck this was.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
He goes, do it. He goes because he goes, because
you get to go, he goes. You've never got to
like talk about your perspective of it, yeah, and with
with perspective, like you never got to share like your
thoughts on it from a space of perspective.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
And I'm so happy to hear all of this, and
like people are listening to so many people love the show.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
That's so great. Yeah, I'm hearing what loved workout or
loved They love.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Both, I mean they loved but a lot of people
say they're watching this because they love workout so much.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
That's great. Yeah, that's really great and good. I mean yeah,
it was like such I mean it was. It was
a lifetime ago. It was almost twenty years ago now,
twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
No, I mean, I have so many questions for you,
but I don't. They're so dumb.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
No ask questions, They're no, they're so dumb.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
That's like, no, you already also answered everything. Hold on,
So you and Doug were in a good place.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, No, Doug and I made peace
for sure. I mean I think we we made peace
for sure. Oh I do. Yeah, I just so I
completely forgot about that because all I have memories of
Doug is lovely memories, because he was a lovely and
I think what it was is we went out. We
made out in a bathroom stall. Did and yeah there
(29:24):
was season two like we went we like got tipsy,
we made out in a bathroom stall, and after that
we're like, we're all good.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Right, He's so hot? Yeah he was.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
I mean I mean at that time, I was a
young d yeah, like and he was like an older man. Yeah,
you know, I didn't see I look back and I'm like,
oh my god.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
He was a really beautiful guy.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
But also he was ripped. Yeah, he was fucking ripped.
I never got like, how do people get that ripped?
And he didn't realize Oh, there's like ways that people
get that right.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Right, And I didn't, especially a trainer, like they're they're
all in the know of that, of.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
All of that stuff, and I wasn't. I wasn't in
the know of all of that stuff, and so I
thought there was like so I think I resented that
a little bit too.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Did your family watch watch you on work out? What
did they think? Where are you from?
Speaker 3 (30:11):
I'm from Seattle initially.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I love Seattle.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
I love Seattle too. I moved back in a New
York minute.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
When did you realize that people were really watching it?
Speaker 3 (30:20):
I started getting recognized everywhere?
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Really, Oh yeah, everywhere, especially I mean out here.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
You were a big star.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Yeah it was. I mean, I will say like it was.
I when I came out in when I was a teenager,
and this was in the nineties, I was the only
out person in my school. It was lesbians. Was a
group of my theater teachers like Posse took me under
(30:49):
their wings and they were a bunch of dykes in
Seattle and Heaven, Heaven, and they really took care of me.
And so I always always loved lesbians and the lesbian
community always. I didn't I never knew that there was
like a divide. I just thought we were all you know, like.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
There isn't unless you're in like a toxic county area
like LA.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Yeah, it is really there. It is rather divided in LA.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Gay guys, you.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Don't have lesbian friends. I don't trust. I think it's
a really bad red flag. I love that this is
your story, continues on to me. Yeah, it's like some
other people. I mean, you just have the great you
have such a great success story.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
I love people.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I want you to win an award for something. I
want you to get, like the key to the city
or some.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Husband and I. We did win. In twenty nineteen, we
were awarded Foster Family of the Year in LA for
Los Angeles through the Child Organization.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
It was really lovely. Is that's so sweet?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Yeah, that was a really special That was a really
special thing, and it was so funny. Is We couldn't
really appreciate it because we were so exhausted at the
time and I was like, I was like, we're just
all we did was take the next sydicated step to
create the life we wanted to do. We didn't do
it for we didn't even know this was a thing,
and we feel weird being like awarded Best Foster Family
(32:12):
because all we did is like we just roll with
the punches, you know. And what does your husband do.
He's a writer and waits tables on the side. And
he actually created this great program a few years ago
where he went into Men's Central Jail and he taught
(32:32):
the inmates how to create autobiographical stories, to write and
then perform out loud as a way to heal any
shame around their story. And he did it on the
gay floor of Men's Central Jail. Did you know there
was a gay floor in Men's Central Jail? No, I
don't know floor is a gay floor.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I'm just blown away that, you guys, I feel like
I've done nothing for the world.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Oh stop, listen. Anytime, being a gay man with a
platform is doing something for the world, true visible, being
able to speak eloquently. You know, we need more of it,
because I don't know. Some people say that's what like
shot the you know, that sort of liberal movement in
the foot, But I disagree. I think that any I
(33:19):
think the most horrific and destructive force in the fucking
world is repression, and I think that the LGBTQ community
is the opposite of that. In fact, we've embraced expression,
and so people that are trying to fit themselves in
this unrealistic moral structure that has been cast upon them
(33:42):
by religion or whatever the fuck are so reasonable they
have to try to tear us down because we are
the living, breathing symbol.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Totally of freedom.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
And what's even more free than being like, I am
not this gender that has more. I am something so
much more than that. And so of course trans people
are the new target target.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
It's a threat.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I can't I'm your gay elder, but you have done
more for the gay community than.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Anybody.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
You want to know, this is really cool, Okay, I'm mean,
I'm not bragging. I'm just I just haven't been able
to talk about any of this for so long. So
we developed this program. It was one of the most
special things we did in this organization called Ask the Elders,
and we would it was like quarterly, we would rent
out a haul and we would get a panel of
LGBTQ elders.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
This is so small.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Literally all that we did and there was there was gay, trans, lesbian,
queer by and these are people that are sixty five
or older and literally people in the adults in the
and that would come and there would always be a big,
huge thing just ask life questions, right, like to do
this again. My best friend is a drug addict. I
(34:52):
don't know what to do, and like someone on that
panel knew what how to work with answer, they're gonna
they're going to exactly know what to do. Or like
my lover's dying and and I and I can't cope
and they're someone they're going to tell you what to
do and how to do it. It's just harnessing the
wisdom of those that go before you is so fucking valuable.
And what was really interesting is they said that gay
adults are so fucking distracted that the elders are mentoring
(35:15):
the youth, and that is the opposite of that cannot
be happening. Elders should be mentoring the adults, and the
adults should be mentoring the youth.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
That's such a great idea. I think you should do
it again.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, you know, I mean, I here's the here's here's
the deal. Here's the deal I have with the universe
is if I'm asked, like you asked me, if I'm asked,
I'll go and like the universe knows my schedule, knows
how busy I am, knows whatever.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
So if I'm asked to like everyone's while I get
asked to go speak at a spiritual center or to
be you know, on a panel.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Or telling you it's your calling, thank you.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
We have to harness the wisdom from our past so
we can share it so other people don't have to
make these mistakes what we did. You know that they
get to like so they can evolve even faster, you
know what I mean. And they get and then they'll
have their whole new you know, group of whatever they
have to figure out.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
But I feel so stupid asking you questions about workout.
You have all this wisdom, but it's great. Let's where
it all started.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
I guess, yeah, workout, I mean, listen, work out for me,
I will. I'll say this work out for me, I
hit my bottom and workout I hit my rock bottom
in workout.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
I mean, I get why, yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
But think about it. It was something that was completely
focused on the physical yeah, and on the glamor of
Los Angeles, so like wealth, wealth and looks and all
of that. And I saw what it was doing to people.
I felt what it was doing to me, you know.
And again, so the third season, I get this really
special opportunity to work with somebody.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
We all we have this and it's not Jody Watley.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
It's not Jody Wattley. In the third season, well, oh
my god, you know, I think you're going to see
at the end of the second season. So at the
end of the second season, okay, they filmed all this
stuff with my best friend that I grew up with
and I and what happened was she was diagnosed with cancer.
Oh no, and I actually go to her treatments with
(37:17):
her in Arizona, and it's just very real. Two young
people in their twenties, one coming to the terms with
the fact that she has cancer and a beautiful young
woman has cancer, and me like working through the fact
that my like, it just doesn't doesn't seem real. Thats
someone my age should be going through this at that time?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Did you ever have hesitation putting that out?
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I talked to her about it because they wanted real
things that were happening in our lives, you know, they
did want that, and so I did share, like this
is what was happening.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yeah, so you guys were.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Brave, is what I'm saying, you guys really showed a
lot of vulnerability and authenticity.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
You talk about so many things.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Yeah, it was I was always impressed to see how
much people got out of it, because I would hear
from people in the Midwest, you know, places with people
that couldn't that did not have the opportunities you have
in Los Angeles, and as far as like freedom of
expression goes, and how much it meant to them, you know,
and how just being gay and okay with being gay.
(38:20):
I love that. I had that really shitty experience with
that manager that told me I had to go in
the closet, but when I came out and I was like, no,
I'm just going to be myself. I got immediately on
television and I was like, that says something like it
says something about how interesting authenticity is, the power of transparency,
and how when you are willing, like those moments with
(38:42):
Jackie and her mom were so special because they were
willing to be authentic and people got to actually see
that because so often you're putting on the front of
what you think people want to see on TV, or
the version of you, stuff that you think you need
to be.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I could talk to you all day.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Tell you how I got Andy Cohen.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Super tell me we where were you?
Speaker 3 (39:06):
I was in New York. I was doing like a press. Oh,
so this is how popular workout was. By the way,
listen to this. This is a great how popular workout
was story. I went to go see Spring Awakening the
original cast.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
So two thousand and four ish five ish.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
No, no, no, no, this is two thousand and.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Seven seven, okay, six and seven, because it had.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Been on and it had been on for a couple
of years.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
So this is like season one workout.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
This is after Sea. I think this is after actually
right after season two, okay, during season two, and I
don't think I had great seat okay seats you know,
and sitting there and during it, what was it like?
Leiah Michelle kept like giving me like looking at me,
and I was like, or, well, here's what I was.
I was like looking behind me, like we must be
(39:52):
sitting by like her family or something that's exciting. And
curtain call comes and the girls come out and they
bound they look at me, they go I love you,
oh my god, and I was like it's lovely.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Oh that's nice.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
And then the stage manager comes up to me and
said the.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Cast would love to meet you, Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
And I was like, are you kidding me? And yeah,
they all come up. They're like, oh my god, we
love workout so much, we love the show so much.
Jonathan Groff gave me the eyes as like, oh, that's fun.
If I wasn't with my manager at the time, I'd
be like I'd be following that. I'd be following that
right out the door.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
But uh yeah, And I was like that was I
was amazed at that. I was like, how are these
people aware of who I am? And excited to meet me?
And there was another celebrity there that night too, and
I remember they ran right past him to meet me,
and I was like, that's crazy. That was crazy. But
so I was in New York for some reason and
Andy and I went out and I got Andy so drunk.
(40:50):
I mean, I mean, I mean I'm talking like shots
like Jaeger bomb shots. Yeah, like where drunk drunk? I
don't I think there were I went to therapy back
in the day something like that. And what was funny
Now I look back at these moments that I'm like,
I wonder if Andy met up with me, like to
(41:13):
see if I was like a potential like to date,
you know, probably, and that my self esteem was so
like not there at the time that if it were,
I wouldn't have been able to grasp that. And I'm like,
talk about there are some missed opportunities in my youth.
I'm like, you should have pulled it together a little bit, Dores.
He did introduce me to one of his friends and
(41:35):
we dated shortly, but I actually started working with him,
who Robbie Bates like something the love I have for
Robbie Bates like in my hot but we play right
of a generation. Yes, I mean, just get out of
here other desert cities, my god. One fun story with
(41:58):
Robbie Bates that he told me that we were gonna
go have dinner with a friend. I was like, okay,
So we just go out to like we're out and
Sir Jessica Parker comes to the table and I'm like, okay,
you could have given any a little heads up that
you're gonna drop an s JP bomb on me, but
and she couldn't have been I remember my ex was
her makeup artist, and he said, you know, a real
(42:20):
star and he goes and Sir Jessica Parker is the
embodiment of this. He goes a real star, makes you
think you're the star totally, and that is one hundred percent.
But she was so interesting. She would leaned into everything
I said, and I was like, you're doing it, You're
doing that star thing that that that Jake said, and
it was completely effective. Couldn't be more.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Jonathan Groff is like that too.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
One night, the one night we hung out with it
the Tony's one year and by the end of the night,
I was like, Oh, we're.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Going to get married. We're gonna get married. He's in
love with me. But every single person has that experience
with him, needs him that he's just.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
They just make you feel special.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
You have that, and I feel special. Oh thank you,
you should special special.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
I feel I cannot believe this was the story I got.
I thought you were gonna say, yeah, I kind of
missed reality TV and I love cooking.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I didn't know anything about your family. I didn't know
anything about your spiritual growth. I didn't know you were sober.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
This is like, I'm so happy.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Oh, thank you. Yeah, I don't miss reality TV.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
I'm sure you don't.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Yeah, yeah, So I don't even think it exists anymore,
does it. I mean I mean, I mean, I mean
what I would do, Like if I were to do something,
it would be probably you know, cooking or like kind
of talk show. We like, like a format like this
where I could just sit and talk to people about.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Life or documentary.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
But you kind of just got to make it yourself now, right,
Like you just do it on your YouTube or your
you do what you do, you create a podcast, but
then you have to mark the shit out of it.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
I think I just got to the point where I
did a lot of that stuff and I just couldn't.
I just couldn't do that anymore. It was like too
much work.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Yeah, I do what I love to do. Like I
hated producing TV and I had to stop. It was
like two talks, Like I was a performer before and I
thought I should get a real job, and that producing TV.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
I had written a treatment for a show that sold,
so I.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Started doing that and like eight nine, ten years in,
I was like I hate I hate it so and
I don't just dislike it, like I hate it.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
And so after the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
When I got sober in twenty twenty one, I was like,
I'm only going to do things that I feel like
I'm called to do.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
So here we are.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Are you.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
I'm so glad that you did them invited to me.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Thank you so much. We please come back selfishly.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, just come back at the end, like maybe when
I'm finished, like finish the whole series.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Sure, Like if you want to have any money, if
you want to have I'll tell you this. I won't
tell you why. If you ever want to have to
talk about Natalie, okay, let me know.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I don't know who that is.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Yet, and well I'll tell you the whole thing because
it was really beautiful.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
I know that someone else dies, though I don't know
who it is is.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I know Doug passes, but then like three people have
been like, oh and someone else from workout nice like dreading.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
Yes, don't tell me, yes, tell me yes, But I
don't know. I don't think he. I don't think they
died on the show, right.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
I think later they said yes, my god, don't tell me.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
Yeah. Oh yeah, no, that was fucked up. That was
really fucked up. But yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Okay, So you'll come back, we'll talk about Natalie.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
Yeah, okay, I'm happy. I'd love to come back to talk.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
With for sure. Wow, thank you so much my pleasure.
Wow is this really are you putting on an act?
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Or are you really this great? Sorry my drink fell over.
Thank you so much for joining. I really appreciate Jesse
taking the time to sit down with me. I hope
you learned a lot just like I did. Thank you
to everybody who's been sharing the show. I finally reached
(46:02):
the last little criteria I needed to be able to
monetize on YouTube, and with that I can safely now
announce that I have made arousing seventeen dollars from this
entire podcast, two months and thirteen hours of entertainment for you,
and now.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
She's rich. Thanks for watching.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Support me on the Patreon, share the show, comment like, subscribe,
blah blah blah,
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