LOUIS PEITZMAN - SUPERSIZED Bravo Deep Dive. Gay Porn, Graveyards, and The Iraq War on WORKOUT?

In this supersized episode of Show Pony, I’m still technically on vacation—but when pop culture wizard Louis Peitzman (BuzzFeed, Vulture, NY Mag) agrees to sit down, you clear your damn schedule. Louis is a walking Bravo encyclopedia and a Beverly Hills local with real reality tea. We go deep—from lesbian chaos in the Jackieverse to gay porn subplots, graveyard visits, the Iraq War, and whether stressful pregnancies cause gayness (??). It all connects. Somehow. Doug’s life hangs in the balance, and it might be the most unhinged ep yet. Buckle up, pony people. 🎤 Topics Include:

• The bleak state of modern reality TV
• Jackie’s graveyard moment 
• Beverly Hills insider scoop
• Iraq War / gay porn parallels??
• “Do stressful pregnancies make you gay?” (We investigate.)

👉 Subscribe, rate, and saddle up.
🧠 Guest: Louis Peitzman | @LouisPeitzman
📺 Rewatch: Workout S2E7

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh my gosh, gone are the days of my beautiful background. Tonight,
I'm broadcasting from my friend Keith's couch. I'm in New
York City. I'm on week three of my epic travels
LA to Fire Island Pines, back to New York City
for a few days, then Provincetown for five days, where

(00:47):
I shared a bed with my friend Eric, who was
on the last episode. Then back to New York. Now
and I'm in Brooklyn and I'm going to do the show,
The Serious Show with Andy here for a few days.
And I am running on f U M E S. Bitch,
I'm dying, I'm dead, I'm exhausted. Friday night, I didn't
really even sleep. I had a date that went really

(01:07):
long in a great way. More on that later. And
now I find myself on Sunday night, before Monday morning,
that is when Sundays usually fall before Monday morning. Just
got a text from Andy about our show tomorrow morning.
He texts me and our producer, Hey, I need to

(01:28):
record the show at eight am. We're live at ten.
I don't know if he means record the show for
another day and er it later at eight am. And
I also don't know what time zone he's in. Last
I heard he was in LA for the Lost Culturista's
a word. So I don't know where I'm supposed to
be at eight in the morning. I'm supposed to be
here in Brooklyn doing the show remotely, or do I

(01:49):
risk it and go to Sirius and no one's there.
I'm going to have this pint of ice cream and
just pray for the best. Pray something happens. Anyway, I
have an episode to crank out of Show Pony, episode seven,
season two, work Out. My guest is one of the
best people in the business. Lewis Pikesman. You know him

(02:12):
from BuzzFeed, you know him from Vulture, you know him
from Entertainment Weekly or wherever the fuck, Amazing outlets, amazing journalist,
the voice of a generation, Twitter afficionado, a raconteur, a
Bravo professional, a Bravo expert, and a reality TV expert.

(02:33):
A TV expert and entertainment industry expert. Lewis Pikesman, it
was an honor to sit with him. I am intimidated
by his brain, his gorgeous mind, his beautiful mind, the
intricacies of his gray matter. Will always bewilder me in
a complimentary way. So I'll just cheat the camera so

(02:56):
you can see Pete. He's alive and well. Where dogs
Another dog named Charlie, but he is a little shy,
so we're not going to show you him anyway. This episode,
this shit is long, girl, and I'm exhausted. I don't
have time to edit it down to a palatable amount
of time. You're gonna have to enjoy the whole supersize.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
That's what I'll do.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
I'm gonna say this is supersized. I'm not gonna say
it's too long. I'm gonna say you get to listen
to an hour of the brilliant Lewis Pikesman without further ado.
I'm going to eat this pint of ice cream and
fat myself to sleep.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Enjoy.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Louis Pikesman. Hello, Hello, Hello, What the crack?

Speaker 2 (03:36):
I know I'm gonna have to spit this crack.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
It's a little awkward, but I think we'll get used
to it. Hi, Louis, Hi, Lewis Pipsman. Remember when I
used to call you Louis No, but I believe that
you did. You came on my radio show and you
were like, I need to address something. You keep spelling
my name Lui, or something about the way I was
spelling it or the way I was saying it. It
was wrong.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Ah, well, that sounds very confrontational with me.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
You said it on the air, I think, did I? Yeah,
I loved it.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
It's a different era. If i'd like sip my my
colvers are gonna pick up on the mic. I hope
so me too, because I want like an ASMR. Yeah,
thing happened.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
I also see the phone. It looks like it's tilted.
So maybe we're totally crooked. I'm gonna go check it.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
I think it's okay, though, Oh we are a little crooked.
I think it's actually.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
It's not that bad.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Okay, thank you for letting me come over my pleasure.
You're a gorgeous apartment.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
I'm heavily moisturized. This isn't like sweat.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
You look very dewey.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, I'm trying a new thing. I was too mad.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
M Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Do you have a skincare regimen that you're obsessed with?

Speaker 2 (04:46):
No?

Speaker 1 (04:47):
I feel like you would be the kind.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Well, I just I use very simple stuff.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Are you a cetaphill?

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, it's like a Sarab set, a fel anything else
that tests ce in it. I'm good with.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Well, we're in New York City, where you live.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
I'm just like swallowed into the mic.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Swallow I I did certainly don't spit. No never, Okay,
we're in New York City, but you're from LA. So
you were saying you watched episode seven. We're on episode
seven of season two of Workout. Thank you for watching
the episode.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
It was my pleasure. I had an amazing time. Really, no,
I loved it. I loved it. I really miss SD.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
That's been is a.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Through line I really like. I was like, everything is
so HD. I really I'm like, I want to not
see poores. I want to see like, you know, shitty
early aughts SD.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, everything looks like it's in a gas station on
the way to Palm Springs, Dusty brown, bleak, sad but optimistic, sort.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Of kind of a dark episode. But yeah, it was
like a very there was some some shit went down.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
This wasn't me okay, Well, last episode, I was saying
episode six, I was bored and I was like, why
am I?

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Why do I have to?

Speaker 1 (06:03):
I started this and I wish I could bail. But
I can't because I'm too far in, but this episode
made up for it. There was a lot that happened.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah, oh yes, my background, Yeah, yes, So I grew
up in Beverly Hills, so I grew up very close
to where the gym is, Sky Sporting Spot. Yes, I
did a Google Maps thing.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, you sent it to me. It was you could
walk there in twenty minutes.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
I mean it was. It's la so like I wouldn't
have walked, no, never, But I actually I did walk
a lot because when I was in high school, I
didn't drive, so I did walk. But no one else
to high school Beverly Hills High.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Wow, And who were your classmates?

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Like my famous classmates? Yeah, Josh Flagg, Brogo Zone. Who
else Josh Flagg, Amber Stevens, she's an.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Actor, Amber, Yeah, I love Amber Shadow. Stevens is her dad.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Who else?

Speaker 1 (06:57):
That's enough, right, that's great, No, it's I know, we don't.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Go everyone I went to high school with. I saw
Josh Flag. He came to BuzzFeed when I worked at BuzzFeed,
like this was like maybe ten years ago, and I
was like, oh, we went to high school together, and
he was like did we?

Speaker 1 (07:14):
He didn't remember.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Well, I think we weren't like friends.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
You know.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
It's just like when you are in high school and
there's like two or three gay people at that time,
you like know the other gay people totally. But he
kind of acted like I was making it up.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
I love when people aren't gay in high school and
then they become gay later.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Well that's that's the real treat.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, but like it kind of feels like a betrayal
because where were you when I need.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
When I knew you?

Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah? No, yeah, absolutely, I had some good gay people
in my years cheer. I didn't go to Beverly Hills High, but.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
I think I would have remembered. Yeah, I mean, well
it would have been so slight age difference.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
But how old are you now? Are you forty yet? Oh?

Speaker 2 (07:52):
My god? What a question? Are you? No? I'm thirty eight?

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Okay close, I'm.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Turning thirty nine in a few months. Oh okay, got
two months.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, when's your birthday?

Speaker 2 (08:04):
September twenty seventh.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
You're a Libra? Yeah, I love it. I'm a libra.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Cus you are? You're a virgo? October twenty third, Oh
you're at tracks.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Okay, anyway, So what was it like I was gonna say,
Season one of Workout was even worse in terms of
the quality of the camera.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
It God is they were like filming it on per
laps sack. Okay, it was.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
It was pretty bad. This is a step up. They're
giving you a little bit of like interview setups, like
there's a treadmill in the back or whatever of their interviews.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
But you know what, you know what. I have loved though,
this just like reminds me of when they made during COVID,
like peak COVID, when they made the Housewives to their
own setup. That was. I really liked Howllow budget that was.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Well, you're you're a Bravo historian, you're a Bravo professional.
I'm surprised that you haven't watched Workout.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, I mean this time I was looking back at
like what I would have been watching at this time?

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Were you watching two thousand so this is two undred
and seven season one, two thousand and six, this is
two thousand and seven.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
I think the only thing I was watching was Top.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Chef Wow, okay on Bravo.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, what what was when was dalist de list?

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Was it was on? Actually? Because I did season five
and that was two thousand and eight.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Okay, yeah, so I watched me, I watched My Life
on the Dalist, and I watched Top Chef, and that
might have been it. I also watched Show Dog Moms.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
And dad Biz Moms and Dads and Show Dogs.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
I watched the one about the dogs.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yes, there was Showbiz, which was so epic World of Wonder.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, so that must have been a little bit later.
But what about the dog one? The Dog one was like,
it was a little bit later because I watched it
when I was in college and then I got more
into Bravo. My first Housewives was Beverly Hills, which was
twenty ten. I also watched at that point Work of Art,

(09:49):
a show that I talk about all the time, SJP,
s JP. I was googling Miles menden Hall today for
season one Love of My Life.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Guy's named John, so's the p Pero parrot.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Who are we talking about?

Speaker 1 (10:06):
He's an artist on that from that show? Don't remember
this silver like great guy? I met a bed a
Christmas party. And also there was a one or a
one named man on that show called like Dumpster or
like oh and dive.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah no, but it was no, it was like edge Lord.
It was like trash Fire or like something like that.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, I thought it was edge Lord. Maybe not.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
It might have been suck Lord. Suck Lord. How can
you forget suck Lord?

Speaker 1 (10:35):
I'm sorry, I'm ashamed of myself. Suck Lord Sucklers should
have won just for having that name.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
What are your seminal Bravo shows from this time? So
dalist work of art?

Speaker 2 (10:49):
It's like Dalist top chef work of art. I was
never really a project runway person. I like dipped in
and out.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
Oh well, then I guess I don't have to ask
you one of the questions I have.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Sorry, Okay, I'm like, is that it? And then like
Beverly Hills, like I said, my first Housewives and for
a while my only Housewives. Okay, I would have watched
this if i'd known about it, or maybe I did
and just chose not to.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
I knew of it, and I never watched it.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
What was the Oh I watched the I watched your
Sheer Genius Blowout. I didn't watch blowout me either, but
I did watch your Genius.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
I watched Tabitha. Nope, you've never seen it. No, you've
seen clips.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
I've seen clips so certainly.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
You're the greatest gift I can ever give you. Is
Tabitha take.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
I actually feel like you've ruined my life because I
watched an episode of Workout and I was like, should
I be watching every episode of Workout?

Speaker 1 (11:43):
Like I don't have that time? But I don't think
he feels like I should do it. I don't think
you have to go back. I can just tell you
what happened season one. These shows moved so slowly back
then the entire first season. Rebecca's in like two episodes
and she kind of goes away and then comes back.
In the finale, Jackie has a girlfriend named Mimi who
was a person only in twenty six year old and
they fight and she bites and bites and shoes and

(12:04):
pinches Jackie and slaps her, and then Jackie steps across the.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Face wait on camera shocking or she stops Jackie across
them So, but she had sex with someone else in
the l Coyote.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
Bathro Yes, I was texting Lewis this earlier. She has
She has sex with the girl in the El Coyote bathroom.
While the cameras are rolling, They're like, should we go
to the bathroom? She there was an episode where they
kept making her go on dates because her girlfriend was
abusing her, and so these episodes are like, Okay, go
on a date. My hunch is, having been a producer

(12:36):
at that time, I think the attitude was kind of like,
who knows if whatever we're shooting it will even end
up on TV? Right, And it's such a nice vibe.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Actually, I really the one thing that really struck me
watching it is how gay it is, yes, and how
Bravo has like become less and less gay over time.
Talk to me about, well, one of the things that
I really like about Next Gen and YC.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Right, Okay, so you said yesterday you think Next NYC
is the best show on Bravo.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Right now, I do.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
I stopped watching two episodes, but I'm I have to you.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Got to get back down. I love it.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
It's not that I don't like it. I just ran
out of time.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
I get it. And the ratings are really bad, are
they They're like not great?

Speaker 1 (13:16):
I like everyone loves They have to renew it, though
I'm sure they will.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
It's a great show. It's so good. It's so good,
and it's like it makes so much sense as like
a way to kind of branch out from Housewives. Yeah,
but yeah, there's a lot of gay people on that show,
Like there's a there's a there's the first time full
time trans cast member on that show.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
She's great too.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yes, we have Brooks, who is not my favorite, but
he's there. And Dylan like the only fans pan sexual.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
By the way, he can get it all day, beautiful man, beautiful, gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
And yeah, I just like, I feel like Bravo's fan
base is so it's like women and gay men, and
it just hasn't been they they just do not put
gay people on their shows, and I think it bothered
me most on shows like Summer House, where they just
have a gay cast member for two years.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Who was the gay person. I only started watching Summerhouse recently.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Steven, don't worry about it, no idea. They just it's
weird because it's like those people in real life have
gay friends. They live in New York. They're like young
liberal people. Well they're like all my age year older now,
but like you know what I mean, yes, they're they're
they're they would have gay friends, right, So it feels

(14:37):
like it jumps out they don't versus like housewipes from like,
I don't really care if like Gramona has gay people
around her.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
Or no, well she does it anymore. And same with
Below Deck. I guess there's some gay stuff.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
There that's kind of gay on gay too.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Fraser is gay.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah. And also this season I'm a little behind, but
there are two lesbians, Huh.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
I like Captain Sandy, come on, lesbian of the season. Sure, yeah,
Captain Sandy Sandy fan No, why.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Oh I can't. I can't open that can of warm.
I'll never get past the Hannah thing and I'll never
get and I just like, don't love her whole like vibe.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
You're already hear first you're anti lesbian?

Speaker 2 (15:16):
No, I love Jackie Warner. So yeah, what do you think.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Of Jackie as a figurehead for this show. I think
she's a star.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, I think she's great. I don't know, I really
like she's not. I'm surprised because she's not someone that
I knew as a Bravo lab because I was not
just focusing on that show at the time, right. I
think she's great on camera, she's great. I think that
she is very She has that thing where she's like
tough but also emotionally open and like you kind of

(15:49):
got a sense of like that she has a lot
of baggage, which I love.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Well, yeah, they showed you on the previously on she
was at a retreat with her clients for Sky Skylab
or whatever it's called. And the woman's like, my father
committed suicide, and she's like, so did mine.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah. That was dark. It was so it was like,
obviously reminded me of Sutton. This he's in Beverly Hills
and like her mind. You know, it's it's very dark,
but it's obviously very real. And then it was like
her mom talking about how he was a casualty of Vietnam.
That was very There was so much war stuff I know. Okay,
so let's back up.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Well, first of all, I should say Jackie, just to
let you know what's happening with her. She moved back
to Ohio. She had a duy. She took a bunch
of ambient and drove to seven eleven in her panties
and flip flops.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
I remember reading about this, okay, because as someone who
used to tack ambient, I would have like every story
about someone taking ambient and doing something crazy, I would
like clock same.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
I used to take it to go out. I would
take it and go party.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
It's so crazy because like I as sort of like
I've never been, you know, a heavy drinker, so like
I never really blacked out from alcohol. Yeah, but I
would like take ambient and have zero memory by anything. Yes,
because that's how it works.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
We share that I was not a big drinker, but
I took enough pills to kill ten rhinoceri. Absolutely, yeah,
and I could. That was my thing too. I could
take a bunch of ambient and like keep going.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
And now we're stronger for it. That's right.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Cheers again. Okay, so yeah, big themes. She visits shower,
her dad's grave, Peeler's in charge of the gym, and
Doug's life is hanging in the balances.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
It's a it's a big episode. Yeah, so I get
to see Doug until.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
I mean, he wasn't really on this episode. His life
is hanging in the balance, but he's he's so wonderful.
He's so hot and sweet and he you know, last
season he trained Jody Wattley. He helps her lose.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Fifteen about it. You know who Jody Wattley is, maybe
at least pop star I'm so young, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
And the weird thing is Doug's ex boyfriend comes to
the gym and he's training him because the boyfriend has
kidney failure and then all of a sudden, sodas Doug.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
It's crazy. So I was trying to learn about what
happened to him, and it's very nebulous.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
Kidney infection, yeah, but it like he had lymphoma. I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
He had lymphoma, was being treated for that, and then
got salmonella, and then I think that like that, there's
a lot going on there, bless. I did some research
on Wikipedia. Okay, the implication was that he had like
either he had HIV to hyprogress to AIDS and that
like the lymphoma was because of that, and then his

(18:34):
like immune suppression you get sick, and it just kind of.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
Like I also wonder that they say those drugs back then.
I think they have different ones now, but they one
of the things. Even when I started taking PREP, they
were like it could be hard on your kidneys.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, so it's true, like most drugs true, but that.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Was like ambient, I mean destroys everything.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Literally, that wasn't but that was like what, oh, so
this was filmed in like six or seven. Yeah, I mean,
I obviously the drugs haven't proved since then, but I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
People are still taking true about it. It's the same
and they're taking that.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's it seems very
it's very sad.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Obviously, I wish you could have experienced him.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Just know that he was very hot. I googled him,
so I did get a sense of that. I looked
up like a little bit about this episode because I
was trying to when I was reading about him. But
there are all these like links to like, you know,
the sources of Wikipedia, so I do my research. I like,
click on the link, you really do. And the people

(19:33):
were like really, there was like a sense that Bravo
was exploiting this death, which is so crazy to me
because it's so restrained.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
Exactly well now, yeah, listen, look at what they're putting
out there now like this. I think they were just
really they were documenting what was happening totally.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
But it's like they were like, oh, they hadn't like
in promos that like that, like what's his name.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
The southern guy, Brian Peeler, that he was like.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
Crying on the phone, and like the use that in
promos and I was like, yeah, I mean they used
Vicky collapsing to the ground when her mother died, right,
you know, on an Orange County promo, and like it
was this was only four years I think before Russell Armstrong.
Oh that was Sason that happened between seasons one and

(20:18):
two of Beverly Hills, so that would have been twenty eleven,
and like I forgot about that, and I remember at
the time then like they were like, oh, we thought
about not airing the season, but they like instead out
of the scene in the beginning where all the women
sit around and are like, well, the show must go
on and you're like all right, And they edited it.
They basically like removed him from the season. Oh they

(20:40):
edited around him because it was just like and then
the abuse thing came out that same season, so that
was a whole.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yeah, And that's it's interesting to look back at shows
like this because we were as a culture also learning
what we could accept and couldn't and what was being documented,
what felt fake and is it appropriate to air certain stuff?
And because I think they treated it very real and
very nicely on the show.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
I agree there. It just it's surprising to me because
it felt I thought it was going to be worse
like it. So it's like the end of the episode,
we barely get anything.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Well, right, I thought he would he would pass it,
like the end of the season or something. And even
in this episode, we know his life's hanging in the balance.
He talks to him on the phone Bright Colls and
we hear Doug's voice. I'm like, Okay, at least he's
still a presence. And then at the end the last
card he died. They don't even have a they just
say he's sick, he's in limbo, and then we find

(21:31):
out the last car and then I mean, it was
a little bit Laura blew out your candles.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
They do have a shot.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Of him blowing out his head.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, this is just cheesy. Yeah, I just think like,
when I read about this backlash, I expect much worse
than that. I mean that, and it's like, there was
I think so much worse reality TV happening at this time,
right well, the Swan. The Swan is the first thing
that comes to mind where I'm just like, wors shit
was happening than like someone dying and that causes Yeah,

(22:00):
and it's not really they're not really like they could
have done a lot more totally. And then I also
found out from this article that I was reading that
like Andy got in trouble because what did you so,
like he wrote a blog post about this.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
This was back in the day, this is before watch
what happened.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
He was a blogger, well he was, I know he
was like more than a blogger, but he but that
was his first known as like.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
That's how people started to get to know his personality.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
His blog blew up. Yeah, And I think for me
because I've read his his diaries, like I I sort
of know that like he can kind of segue from.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Real shit to like whatever he being silly.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, so it was like he wrote like, you know,
grab your hankies for tonight's episode. It's like really sad.
And then he was like talking about he was like
sorry to switch gears. But I went to this party
and I was like with Amy Sidaris and like so
there was a little bit of sense of like that
was that was inappropriate? I get it. I get yeah,
but I just again like I've seen worse, Like I'm
not trying to like downplay whatever but I just feel

(22:58):
like it didn't seem that to me.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Right and in hindsight, Yeah, show must go on. Yeah,
poor Doug? All right, p Do you think it would
be in poor taste if I didn't you know, I
can do this these episodes from anywhere? Do you think
it would be in poor taste? If I went to
Doug's grave and did an episode.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
I think I would probably ask his family first.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Okay, I think they love it. I'll contact that great
who'd I interview? Okay? Anyway, Yes, so Jackie visiting her
dad's great she goes to Ohio. I'm so glad you
didn't have to watch the episodes where she's worried about
her fashion line, because that is just the most care.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Less about that. I think fashion lines are like the
death of any Bravo show. Yes, I don't want to
hear about anyone's fashion line.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
Never again, I don't want to hear about who. Don't
like Project Runway. You're not a fashion Lisa.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
No, but like I at least on on Project Runway,
like they are making or they're designing their own clothes.
What I hate is like every reality show on braw
and now people have they're like sketching something, but I'm like,
you're not doing anything right. Someone else is designing clothes,
you're putting your name on it, and like that is
your fashion line.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
You don't even have to see this, and that is
exactly what is happening here.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
You see these sketches all over.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
They're like, okay, we got to do the scene where
you're looking at your sketches, and I'm like, do you
I can even sketch that shit anyway? Boring? I'm glad
you didn't.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
I it was interesting to me. Her mom's sort of like,
you know, like she's like she's supportive in many ways,
but doesn't support the gay lifestyle. She's very like, you know,
they showed clips of her being like I'm wondering if
I didn't love you enough and now you're a lesbian,
which is like it's hard to watch him anyways, but

(24:33):
also it's very real and I think like those attitudes
obviously still exist. People don't say that as much on
TV anymore because they know they know better. Like Brittany.
Brittany's mom when she first came on vander Pump Rules
was like visibly homophobic, and now it would never say
that shit again because she because she knows that it
wouldn't look good.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
This is what I've been saying about my mom. She
shared some of those same beliefs back then, and my
mom would have known, she would never have let camera
role and said those stuff and those things. I think
it's equally as important as the gay representation of Jackie
and all these people that they were having those on
his conversations with parents, because those are the conversations that
gay people are having with their parents about being gay,

(25:14):
and we didn't really see that on TV.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, I mean it's it's definitely sad to watch, but
it does feel real real.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
Also these other episodes, these women are tonguing down like
these are. It's not just like, oh, she's gay, They're like,
they're fucking coyote.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
What's her?

Speaker 1 (25:33):
So?

Speaker 2 (25:33):
What was God? El coyote? This is the site of
so many important moments. We've got Jackie fucking someone in
the bathroom. We've got Kristin yelling at or Janet yelling
at Kristen in the valley recently, and then Sharon Tate's
final meal.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Sharon Tate's final meal, it's the best table you.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Sort of ranked the things will happen in important.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Jackie fucking someone number one, number one, you just listed them.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Probably yeah, actually, yeah, you get it.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
I think my favorite part of the episode was Jesse
training the porn star that they call him a male model,
but then when I saw his his shirt said Colt.
I was like, are they going to acknowledge what that is?
And I'm glad they did. Yeah, so I have porn studio.
For those of you who don't know it was, it was.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
So funny to me that they're like, you think that
it's going to be like that part felt very like
it was like it was like, oh, can we like
go get like a coffee. I was like, all right, whatever,
this is like very silly. Yeah, but it's like you
think it's going to be kind of like a date vibe, right,
and they sit down there talking about the Iraq War.
Immediately I know, oh oh. The best part was he's

(26:36):
like can I see some pictures?

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (26:38):
Can I see some It's like, here's some pictures of
me in Iraq And I was like, do you carry
those around? Like do you like he.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Meant he meant porn pictures, Yes, your dick, and he
was like, yeah, I have some because Back in those days,
camera phones were sort of existing, but it's not like
you had all your cameras, your photos on your camera.
I used to live next to a porn star at
this very exact time, and one time to flirt with me,
he he put an envelope of like eight by ten

(27:03):
glossies of him naked from porn shoots on my door set.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
That's incredible. Did it work?

Speaker 1 (27:07):
He also died, so before I could fuck him, he passed.
I know, he was great, he was weird. He's great.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
What a life you've left. Yeah, that whole that whole
day thing was so bizarre.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
I mean, Jesse having to stretch his growing out on
the roof. I mean, I think I interviewed Jesse a
couple weeks ago, and I loved him. You have to
listen to that. It's really really good. He is like
a jan La van Zandt. He's giving you evolved wisdom,
like sober king. He's amazing. It wasn't what I expected,
but I loved that back then. He was definitely Even

(27:45):
if it's stage or produced, sometimes it can backfire and
it really makes me cringe. But I was like, whatever,
you're there to play, guy, you just stretching him.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
It didn't bother me because it's like what staged about
it is like it's an artificial scene of like you know,
he was he was brought in to do this scene.
He's taking off whatever. Like that's all fine. I think
as long as the interactions feel, as long as there's
something authentic about what they're talking about, I don't really
mind how they got there.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
They're also hot like these other like I. One thing
Jackie said that was right is that nobody wants to
see people working out. They don't want to watch that.
They want to watch lesbian drama. They want to watch
people's lives.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
Take out my coffee?

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Are you doing that because I have bad breast? They
give me one coffee? I need it?

Speaker 2 (28:29):
No, I just like I had that coffee.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
I want to be on the same level.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
I'm dealt with my coffee. I want to move on
to my Listtreen. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
I think like, but when like these other people working
out for like heartwarming, Oh my gosh, you're going to
achieve these goals of your fitness, nobody cares. But I
do care about seeing like a hot gay guy porn
star working That's.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Why I wonder why I agree, And I wonder why
we've moved away from gay drama, like it never works.
They try to do those shows and they never work.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Lewis, that's a whole we could do a whole other album.
Why because I really I produced as Dallas.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
I think I didn't know that. Yeah. I never watched
The Enemy, No, I just never. I never watched it.
I never watched the LA.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
One either, But there was only New York and Dallas.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
No, but that there was that more recent one.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Oh, friends of who I watched that as I was
recovering from menisca surgery.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
I did watch the Fire Island Show.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, I watched by Kelly Rippa.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Was there anyone notable on that? Mean Patrick Patrick, Bravos, Bravos,
anyone else?

Speaker 1 (29:32):
I think Cheyenne Parker.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
I don't know. I kind of enjoyed it, I think,
but I think it. I don't think it was like
a good show, but I was great idea. I was
so hungry for gay drama.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, you should watch the A List. That's actually in
a couple of years. When you need a podcast idea,
you should watch. I'm telling you it's crazy. And my
season of a Lis Dallas, I went in there to
give gay mess chaos, because I thought that that was
true equality. I wanted people to see what was actually happening.
I wanted to see these guys were on so many pills,

(30:05):
so many so much alcohol. But they at the time,
gay marriage wasn't legal, and we wanted to present it
as much as we could as like gay aspirational. But
I wasn't really on that tip, so I wanted to
make it chaotic.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
I think the problem with trying to do like the public.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Hated it, and it was so bad that it crashed,
not only the Dallas franchise, but the New York went too.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
We got such backlas if Like, I think that if
you try to do like a rich like a rich
white gays show, it's just going to feel like housewives,
and it's not there's not a enough distinction there. You
have to do something that feels a little bit. They
need to do like a summer house style show, like
they could have done like summerhouse Fire Island. I don't
know why they I guess I just got chills.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
I just got chills on the left side of my brain.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
But like, why would you do that? Like that's also
like perfect for I just feel like.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
I do you think people can handle it? Though I
think it might be I just went to Fire Island
and some of the shit that went down, I do
not know how you would be able to present that
to the American television viewing public.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
You mean, like the amount of like keeping holes and
stuff or like something.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
One thing is this was an anomaly or a phenomena
that happened in our house. Dinners just became variations of
us impersonating women coming so like around the dinner table,
there was no conversation. Wud just inevitably ended up being
like us doing like.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Was the food really good? Is that where you like
having a genuine reaction to while you're eating it?

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Just we're making each other laugh, like I'm not sure
we were going. On the other hand, though, we were
having some deep conversations. But it's a lot of laying
down and then I got a Roman shower. Keep going.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
The thing is like you can you could film like
it's like if you if you watch like Summerhouse, like
sometimes an episode will be a whole weekend, so it'll
be a little bit of them and like you can
work around it, like there's and Fire Island is close
enough that people go for a day like, so there's
a lot easier to get there than it's faster probably
than driving Dow to Hampden's totally.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
The thing that bugs me about Summerhouse, but is also
essentially is that they throw some stupid themed party every week.
I don't believe that would ever happen naturally if there
were no cameras, no one's going to that much effort.
But it does give a tent pole and a project
and kind of a goal. And if there was some
sort of that in Fire Island, like maybe they have

(32:16):
to throw a pool party every weekend.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
They could totally do it. I feel like I do
worry that they are, like they don't think that show
would be profitable enough, and they're probably right, but it's
like I just feel like and the other problem is
that gay people are so judgy. I know, like, if
you make a show that's like for the gays, they
will hate.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
It, they will rip it apart.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
But we just don't have a lot of that.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Like the people who are making these shows are not gay.
The same production company the day List Dallas Made Friends
of Who, and it's straight people mostly, and there's a
couple of gay people there, but like it's a straight company,
Like you need World of Wonder yea to go in
there and like crack it.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
Well, I believe we could do it.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
I think so too. I think that if it will
occur to you, you'll be like laying in bed one
night and you'll say, oh, that's the missing piece, let's go.
I think it has to do with casting really totally.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
I mean I think that like if you if you
watch Next Gen, like that's a show that could have
so easily been annoying. It is annoying, but it's like
it's annoying in a good way. I feel like the
casting was so good. They found people who are like
genuinely broken and they put them on television. And then
like the Housewives kids are not like as central as
I thought they would be, Like they kind of are,

(33:28):
but it feels like it's a little bit more natural
than I think.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
These other people are popping out and I'm just as
interested in them. I'm even more interested in them than
I am about the Housewife Kids.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Well, they found this, like they found some sort of
actual group of people, Like they found people who do
know each other and run in the same circles, which is.
I think when you don't have that, you have like
New York where it's the reboot of New York where
it's like.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
You have to leave scandles on your coffee table and
now you put them underneath it.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
People, I love that.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
And then so you take one out at a time
and light it. That's right, and then put it back underneath.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
No, no, no, there's a system.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
What is the system.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
Well, one's lit now, and there's one waiting in the
wings up there.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
Where's the lit one that's right there on the floor.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
No, it's on the little table where next to the couch.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Oh, okay, it's on the table. And then where's the
one on deck? Oh? Right there?

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
And so then when that one's done burning, you put
it back here on deck, goes.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
To when it's un burning, it goes it's recycled. Oh
and then burn it comes down to.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
The bottom, to the bottom. Oh so these are all new.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, I'll get those are double stacked.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
I'm going to get an insert shout of this really quick. Okay,
keep going, we should keep talking about work out. My bad.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
No, it's fine, I understand. These are like, No, I
bought this table because I really wanted a place to
put my candles.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Well you found it.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
I absolutely did.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
This is great. This is going to be my my
one piece of editing in this episode. You're going to
put this in candles? Yeah, it's gorgeous. Wow wowow Okay, sorry,
back to the episode. Wait, go back to Jesse training
Gauge and talking about the era.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Oh the Iraq War part. Yeah that was crazy, Yeah,
because he was so the porn guy Gauge Gauge Okay,
not his real name. I was maybe it's his real name.
I mean, you never know.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
I was wondering if I had ever seen his work.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
I googled him and I didn't recognize him.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yeah, maybe I have to see him in action totally.
Do you watch a little of porn?

Speaker 2 (35:29):
No?

Speaker 1 (35:29):
Okay, are you saying that only because your boyfriends in
the other room probably here, I know.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
I mean that's not a problem, not professionally made porn work. Okay,
but not and not that kind of I mean that's
so like of its time.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
You'll look at like an OnlyFans maybe.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Sure, but like for research for research.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Dylan, did you look at Dylan's from next Jocks?

Speaker 2 (35:48):
I heard it wasn't I heard it was all like
not just.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Like dick through the underwear, Yeah, who needs that?

Speaker 2 (35:56):
The Iraq War to the Iraq War, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
They found no weapons of mass destruction. He was.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
He was like, I regret that I went there. It
was a pointless war that obviously was still going on
at that time.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
He was two thousand and seven. Like I was glad
he was talking about it me.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Too, And I thought, like it's funny to hear like
Jesse respond and sort of be like you know when
my brother went and like he had a good time.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Or like yeah he had a great experience.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
You no, Like he was sort of like I don't,
you know, I don't know like how I feel, and
I go back and forth, which, like I think it
was really hard at that time to have like people
were speaking out. People were speaking out from the very beginning.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
So like that was O'Donnell Rosie, the.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Michael Moore Oscar speech and like many many activists who
were speaking out, and it obviously I think by seven
was easier than it was in like four, but I
still feel like it was something that people were wishy
washy about and you can see that like Jesse's not
really willing to kind of like take a strong anti

(36:58):
war stance, and even Gauge is like, I'm not really political,
Like it's very you know, right.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
I mean back then, I think there was still a
sense of like, Okay, even if we have our disagreements here,
we should stay unified as a country as much as
we can. And now it's not like that at all.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
There was so much I remember at the time of like,
of course I support the troops, but like if you were,
I had to be like, I support the troops.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Support our troops.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
And I came from a family who was very much
like America first, so I just didn't really talk about it.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Well you know who was talking about it, Horn Stars
on Workout.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Yeah, okay, I mean I wish that scene whatuld have
gone on forever.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
I was trying to figure out where they were. I
was trying. I didn't recognize the I mean, it was.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Like a nothing like okay, anyway, I don't know where
they were they were last Maybe they were absolutely phobulous.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
They were somewhere that doesn't exist anymore. But I yeah,
I went.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
I went at four in the morning, when I was
in LA I went to Skysport and spat and like
did recon.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Yeah, what we so just to look at it, what
is there now? Consulate is what it was when I
go with the ador. I think it's a Turkish consulate,
but I don't know if that was just like somewhere
next to it on Wulfshure.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
I think it's just next to it. I don't think
the Turkish Consulate is in Skysporting spot.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Okay. It's funny that like theybe they like have this
thing of like and this is very true of like
Beverly Hills that like they want it to sound like
it's Beverly Hills, like Rodeo Drive, but like this isn't
Nino two on one. It's like not, it's not the
same thing.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
But people in America don't know that.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
No for sure. But it's like when you when you
see those shots though of Wulfshure, like Wolfshure's not she No,
it's very like it's not. And that's like the right
at the border of La Like that's not exactly you know,
that's not like Beverly Hills that people are thinking of.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
No, it's not the rolling Estates. It's not the candy
spellings right like it said spell air well.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
She used to they used to live in the Nino
two one O part of Beverly Hills.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, well the whole show, though, the whole show has
worked out. I'm looking at it, having lived in LA
since nineteen ninety six, I was there the whole time. Yeah,
and I'm looking at what they're present sending to me
as this is LA. This is four hundred dollars an
hour for training, and.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
It was how much they were charging. That's that's what
they say, But they can't have actually charged that. I
don't believe it.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
I think that a producer was saying, we really want
to make the rest of the world think that this
is the most elite thing.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
So client tells us not feel like exactly, it's not
like rich. I mean I only watched one episode, but
like I thought it was going to be more like
but more like that, more like known people or like
you know, models and people who are I guess now
would be like influencers.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Well, there was an author of a writer from Star
magazine last episode, so they are okay, Yeah, and she
cried because her job was so demanding.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
I'm sure that's true. I'm sure it is ruining lives.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Boring talk about like I don't really Again, Peeler leads
a boot camp on the roof.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
I try to think of, like what I what I
wrote down that I didn't include here? Oh you told
me that?

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Like Rebecca, Okay, so last season not even lesbian, she
was showing her dick pics of her boyfriend's dick to
Jody Watley and fascinating.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
So two things I loved. One was the shot of
when Jackie was telling Brian that he was taking over
and they frame it so Rebecca's in the background, Yeah,
and she just kind of like has a stink face
about it.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Love that. And then I didn't know that they were dating,
having not watched, so when they kissed, I was I
was shaken, what's happening? I was like, why is she
kissing an employee? Right? Well, that's it, I mean, a
fair question even if you know that they're dating exactly,
but it's very that's very funny that you think it
was for camera time.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
I think it was for camera time. I do think
they had a genuine affection for each other, but I
think it was mutually beneficial. After season one, Rebecca was like, oh,
I want a bigger part.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah, I'll be lesbian. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
I also, it's not that I don't believe it either.
I believe it. I believe they were having something. I
think they were flirting and just like getting caught up
in it. I mean, I don't exactly know. Jackie says, yeah,
they were girlfriends for a minute and they're still close.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Oh good.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Jesse was like, she's not gay, and and he's like,
he's like, I didn't. He's like, I didn't care that
Jackie was hooking up with an employee. I didn't like
that Rebecca was pretending to be gay.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
I will say that, like, I do think that, not
to generalize.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
I know what you're gonna say.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
No, I think women are better at fluidity than men are.
And so I think that a lot of women who
identify as straight, yes even or or obviously me by
or anywhere on the spectrum, A lot of women who
identify straight will end up dating a woman or you know.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
I think it's like it's just something a million times.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
So I don't know that, like, like maybe she is
mostly straight, and maybe she was, like Jackie's very appealing
in some way. However, if I were on that show,
I would probably want to have text with Jackie for
camera time me too, because it's like there's so many
of them too. I feel like we also at that
time like didn't quite understand like how to do an ensemble.

(42:08):
Like it's like they're not gonna all pop. You kind
of have to like either focus on a core core
group or film kind of more individual storylines of the
rest of them. And again, I watched one episode, but
it just felt like there were so many of them
getting lost because it's like you can't really focus on
it and so Jackie centric. So it's like I didn't

(42:28):
watch Flipping Out, but that was a pretty small core group.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Right, Yeah, there was a few, and they they were
all very different. There was one girl, one assistant, one housekeeper.
You know. Now there's like they kind of blend together.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
But it's like when you when you if you have
a show that that the show's about Jeff, it's like
you can't really have like was it about him to
start or was it just like he was a star?
Was it like about all of them? Or Okay, So
it's like I think it would be it would be
hard if there were like eight people and cast totally
totally You're you're focusing so much attention on the one person.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Workout is an ancestor of vander Pump Rules. In my opinion,
it's a workplace and no one does really care about
the actual business. Right of course they learned by vander
Pump Rules to get in the trenches.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Yes, I definitely see the overlap there, But it would
be like if vander Pump Rules were focusing so much
on Lisa, right, which like what a horrifying prospect.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
No, no, no, no, yeah, I can't believes your age.
She was thirty eight in the show.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Well we both look great. I can't believe that we're
like not free of the tyranny of Lisa vander Pump.
I know they we're having the new vander Pump Rules
and have to watch her once again act like she's
actually their boss.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
What is the next vander Pump Rules going to be?

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Like?

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Are they going to still work at vander Pump Rules.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah, they're They're actually going to work it. Sorry. Yeah,
I pop by when I was in LA just like
went over to see if they were filming, because I
think I forget what days they film, but like people
know that stuff. I just like was in the area
because I don't to Tom Tom, which I had a
very awful meal at.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
I listened to you talk about it on set.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Okay, this was the more recent Tom Tom.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
You went back to Tong yes, when I was an when
you were just there a few weeks ago, month ago.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, you went.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
I thought Tom Tom was closed.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
Well, I think not long for this world. That was empty.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
They have a tree in there, That's the only thing
I like about it.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah. It was so loud, which like I felt really old,
being like I wish they would turn the music down
because I couldn't hear anything that It was like two.
It was my friend and I and then like other people.
But I did when I when I went back, when
I went to Tom Tom the first time was when
it just opened and I remember that I didn't have plates.
They were like running out of everything. And then I
talked about it and then Logan confronted me about that

(44:47):
at like the vander Rumbarules party at Bravo Con.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
You went to Bravocon.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah, the first couple of years.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Oh here in New York.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Yeah, are you going to go to this one? Absolutely not.
Vegas is such a shithole. I mean I went to
that Bravo Con because I was covering it and like
it was in New York and it was easy and yeah,
I just remember that vander Pumproules party logan. Do you
know Logan? No, he like he worked at Tom Tim.
I don't think he's still there. He's like Arian's best friend.

(45:14):
There's like a couple of gay logans from vander pump Roules.
He's the one who's like he broke the panis. Do
you remember the penis thing that he broke up? Anyway,
doesn't I.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Drink a lot of years off of vander pumples? Okay,
well I what did you order it Tom Tom this pastime?

Speaker 2 (45:29):
Yeah? I had. I think I had the impossible sliders.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
Oh you're a vegetarian.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Pasketarian, right, And I had I think we had the
Brussels sprouts, like truffled Brussels sprouts. I want to say.
It was so flavorless, like sometimes when you order truffle stuff,
you're like it's going to be overpowering.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
I hate it.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
I wish there had been more truffles, because at least
that would have been something to cling to.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
I never say that.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
The sliders were like just so deeply mid that it
was worse than if they'd been bad, because it was
like I couldn't make those at home.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Deeply mid is such a great way to describe Tom
Tom in general.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah, it was a depressing experience. But then I went
to Salton straw and got some ice cream. What flavor?
I got the white, I got some pints to take home.
I got the strawberry, balsaw man like black pepper and
olive oil. Okay, But then I went to to start

(46:27):
to see if they were filming, and they were not.
They were not.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Have you been to Jax's? Yes? What'd you think?

Speaker 2 (46:33):
I mean, what is there to think?

Speaker 1 (46:35):
I mean, Brits.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
I went to Jackson's. I I love how much he's
wearing that fucking hat in like scenes of him being
like emotionally abusive and stalking. I'm like, is that a
good ad for your business? Your business? I went there.
This was not the last most in LA because I
obviously at that point knew he was a bad person,
and before that I had no idea. So I went
to Jackson. I was like, I was like, I hope

(46:59):
that Jackson is than there, Like I don't want to
like have to like have that experience we like walk
in and he greets us immediately like he's just standing there, Well,
what else is he doing? Nothing?

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Nothing?

Speaker 2 (47:08):
And they, you know, they weren't something at the time.
He was there. Schwartz was there and there was a
karaoke It was karaoke night and my friends did karaoke
and I thought was good. We took video of Jack's
in the background, like with like the shittiest face of like,
fuck this guy singing the whole time. How was the fooded?

(47:29):
Jack's not good? Okay, they were out of beer cheese.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
I went to Tom Tom only once. I went to
sirr a lot before vander pump Rules, when it was
like kind of new. I went there for a fake
green card wedding reception. Oh okay, that was nice.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Still together, No, no, no, no. I will say something
about her as really good sandwiches. That's what I've heard,
really good sandwiches.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
They look good.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Yeah, they're tasty.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
My friend Jamie used to work there making the sandwiches.
It's like a cook.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Did she have a good time doing that?

Speaker 1 (48:00):
She didn't have a bad time. She was like, oh
I hate those cunts. Great, she was like she moved
on to the sandwich shop.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Last time I went, Katie was there. Oh, I guess
you know, it's part of the job. Cool.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
There's something to me a little bit about like I'm
surprised that they're there.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
Well, I don't think Arian is ever there. Yeah, but
there's something like a little bit like I think it
would really did shock to her. No, not for any reason.
I just didn't I didn't want a photo.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
I have beef, No, Okay, But I think.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
There's like I don't know, like it feels like kind
of you make this place, and like you then have
to kind of be an ambassador all the time because
people are going to see a famous person. Yeah, they're
going to kind of like look to see if you're there.
So it's like that's a lot to the kind of
then she was taking orders, she was like doing you know,
I don't think she's like getting paid to like work
the register, but she's like doing that. But then she's

(48:55):
getting photos and stuff.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
And getting paid by Big Mayonnaise. Well doesn't need the money.
She has a Hellman's endorsement, Katie, doesn't she.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Well, that was the Summerhouse people. Doesn't Katie doing something too?

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Isn't Katie the face of Helmans? Is she isn't she
like the face of some mayonnaise.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
I just know that is the West and Lindsay we're
doing those mayo ads Katie's and then and then Sierra
got the other competing mayo thing. There's like mayo beef.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
Do you like mayo?

Speaker 2 (49:24):
I love mayo?

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Okay, pescatarian new works in that with that.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Yeah, I mean I like fish. It's not fish. I
like tuna. Salad like saladund I.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Think it might be my favorite food, perfect food. Okay,
hold on, let's get back to the episode, and I'm
gonna let you go. Jackie. We see a lot of her.
She goes back to her high school, does this speech
in the gym.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Oh on the on the rate of the high school.
None of them are ring seatbelts, I know, freaked me out.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Yeah, that's all you're chill, chill lesbians. We see a
lot of photos of Jackie in her yearbook, and we
see photos of her dad, who, of course, yeah, rip
unlived himself. He was fine, beautiful.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Did you notice I didn't notice that. I'll go back
and watch that again because I've not paid for the episode,
so oh go look at it.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
We're just a gorgeous man, Yes, a star and then
all of a sudden, at the end of the trip,
they walk out of the house and it's the middle
of winter. I don't know if that's Ohio.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
It was so weird. I didn't know what time of
year it was. I didn't have a good sense of
it looked time and suddenly it's like it's it's like snow,
six inches of snow.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Yeah, anyway, that was weird. The Lion the witch in
the Lesbian it was like very it turned into Narnia.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
It was like, I do you feel like this is
the kind of town where you lose time? Yeah. You
go there and you just kind of like you wake
up and suddenly it's a different season.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Jackie moved back there in twenty nineteen and she's still there.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
So is she there with her mom and her mom
still alive? Yeah, because mom's young.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
She called her mom her greatest, most beloved when you
talk to her recently. Yeah, she loves her mom.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
They did have a really you could tell that a
relationship despite everything they have like fond like her and
I'm going to assume her mom's like better with gay
stuff now, yes, like because she was already you could
kind of feel like that journey for her where I
didn't feel like it was like right, she was doing
that thing people would do a lot. I think of
that time of trying to find a reason for it.
Like she was talking about like too much stress during pregnancy,

(51:20):
which is so funny to me. That was crazy at
the end.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
Yeah, She's like I read somewhere that stress as stressful
pregnancy you made the kid gay, And it's like, what,
what pregnancy isn't stressful.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
We've moved away from that, I think because we know
it's looking for the gene. The gene was like a
big thing for a while, and it was like we
actually maybe shouldn't look for something we can try to eradicate,
you know, like we should probably just like let this,
let this be a little mystery.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
It did make me think about that type of stuff.
I remember in high school they were searching for the gene.
They thought they had found the gene. And then I
just was kind of like, even if you're an anti
gay homophobe, isn't it obvious that it's like there's gay people.
Sometimes it's like you can hate it, but don't act
like it's not just like something.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
That happens all the time.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
It's weird from the gene, from the teen from.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
The gene or from too much dress during pregnancy.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
And then we're back in l A and Doug dies
Yeah well not on camera, thankfully. Peeler breaks down in tears. Yeah, sad.
So when he was crying, I could see what he
looked like as a baby.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Were they really close?

Speaker 1 (52:30):
He was like the big brother of everybody.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Okay, did he have beef with the other gay one? Though?
There were some drama, right, he.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Had beef with Jesse, But when I interview Jesse, he
didn't even remember that. I had to remind him, and
because my first question was like, you guys were in
a beef when he went to the hospital, did you
have a chance to make up? And he was like,
we had no beef, Like we were fine.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
So like, was that just like producer stuff? No.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
I think they cleared it up and then maybe in
this in the timeline of the show laid out as
right during but he was like, no, no, no, he
didn't remember what it was about. They were fine.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Do you remind him what it was about?

Speaker 1 (53:06):
I did. He didn't like what Doug said about him
in an interview. He called him Jack from Will and Grace,
and he took offense to that because he thought at
the time and this was.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Also that's kind of a way of saying he was effeminatee.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Yes son Jesse said, which is another thing that no
one was saying on TV. He was like, there's a
gay hierarchy, like jock, straight acting gays are at the
top of the totem pole and effeminate gates are at
the bottom, and that's not fair. And he was he
was like, very well spoken about it.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
That's interesting. I feel like that I do think that
obviously still exists to an extent in terms of like
a little bit, but I think it's in terms of
like within it's like gay people act like that's not
how they feel, and then like still will gravitate toward
mask guys, right, But I think, like I don't know,
like on TV, i'mlike, Bravo'm like we have Zach on

(53:54):
the Valley, yeah, and we've got Brooks on on next Gen,
so we've got you know, a feminine gaze on. Although
I don't want to slander Brooks. You know what sensitive
Brooks is about being called a twin, being called yeah,
you're not a brook fan. No, I am a Brooks.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
I met him once in person.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
I thought he was so sweet. I'm sure he's very
self possessed.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
It's almost like and again this is complimentary. I don't
mean this in any other way, but like I wonder
if like Laurazapam is handed down and is.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
About that family, and I just like it's funny because
Seth is not that. I mean, Seth is like he
loves me on camera like once he's a star. He's
so energetic, he's like kind of hitting on Charlie and
also Dylan, and but like Brooks, like I do find him.
I like him more on this show than on Telag City,
but I just always felt like he's not a star

(54:49):
because he just like the vocal fry and I have
vocal fry. It's nothing wrong with vocal fry, but it's
like it is so zanned out, it's so like and
then it it's like he's so conflict diverse that it's like,
first it was annoying because I think that, like, that's
my least favorite thing about Meredith is that she's so
like disengaged but glassy eyed. But then it's like with Brooks,

(55:11):
it's kind of it's kind of camp because he's like
so conflict diverse. He's literally hiding from everyone fighting, and
I'm like, you know what, it's bad for reality TV
in general, but it's funny when you do it, So like,
go ahead and I'll take that over. Like Gia being like,
I'm on the show enough, I have to like create
some conflict because I live in Jersey and no one
cares about me, and I need to kind of insert myself.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
Well, maybe Brooks will be like his mom because she
is kind of reserved activated and then she gets activated
and then it's deaf con five.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
I don't think Brooks will ever get activated like that
on camera.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
He's probably too smart, too scared, too careful.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Yeah, and he's a little bit I mean, he's like,
do you just turned twenty five on the show, which
I think like is sort of the age at which
you might start wanting to not be messy twenties, even
though you're still kind of messy for a while, and
some of us were messing into our thirties forties. I
think that he's he doesn't really want that for himself,
and I think also he can look at someone like

(56:08):
Charlie who's twenty nine and be like, I don't want
to be that guy at that.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Age, right, No, he's smart and he also you know,
he has a brand to protect tracksuits. Okay, and then
Doug blows out his candles and then we find out
that he passes Rip does.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
So the next episode is like the aftermath. It's like
the because I saw the previewer talking about sort of like.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
I guess they make the official announcement. Maybe they have
a funeral memorial. Andy said that he had. Okay, so
they didn't do a reunion for season one, but they
do do one in season two. You can't find it online,
so I'm having Bravos send it to me because I
want to see it. Yeah, and Andy said he cried.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Andy cried. Yeah. I thought he cries a lot. I
guess maybe less so at the time.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
I think it was maybe his first time crying or something,
because he remembered it very vividly.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Do I think Andy cries a lot now, not in
a bad way. I just feel like he gets and
I think it's like a radio Last month, I saw
that about his driver. God, that was that was and
just like that this with Sema and her driver, and
I was like, apparently this is like a real relationship.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
Yeah, people, those comments are so funny.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
They're like I don't know people. Yeah, I get it,
I get it.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
No, I thought it was I thought he genuinely loved
that guy.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
I thought it was sweet. It didn't it didn't feel
I think people can read that as condescending or like,
but it didn't.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Read that way, like when I watched it, and like
I think about it. He does this show five nights
a week. At midnight, he gets in a car and
goes seven minutes uptown to Like that's that's a lot
to see someone. Yeah, And it's not like he's saying,
you know what, I really like you. Let's go like
to a baseball game next Saturday and get to know
each other and become friends. Like your relationship is like
a working relationship anyway, who cares? But don't need to

(57:43):
defend andy, all right. I did a little, uh, a
little tiny game called drop and give Me twenty just
in honor of exercise.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Does it does it require me to like do push ups?

Speaker 1 (57:53):
You're gonna get down and do push it. You're gonna
lift twenty candles with your kegels.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
I would knock over the trial you're playing for apartment.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
No you you I'm gonna ask you twenty questions. You
can only give one word answer really quickly for time.
Unless I specify to give me more than one word.
You'll see what I mean. Okay, ready, No, favorite Bravo
show of all time.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
I'm already fucking this up. I'm already sucking this up.
Just pick uh uh Real Housewives, New York.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
Favorite housewife of all time, just to be.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
Difficult, Gina Kurschien Hider, just to like, just to make
everyone feel weird.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Favorite housewife product of all time.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Skinny Girl just for like the last the staying power,
if you ever used it or took it, taking it
or whatever?

Speaker 1 (58:49):
What is it?

Speaker 2 (58:50):
It's like your food drink Skinny Girl. Yeah. I've never
had any of those products, but yeah it's my favorite.
Yeah I was.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
I would say Sony Morgan Toast Robin favorite house husband
of all time.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Because we were talking about him, seth Marks.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
Okay, Project Romeo Top Chef. We know the answer, Chef
is NBC universal right to never release the Caroline Manso
Brandy Glandville season of Ultimate Girls Trip. Yes, Okay, did
you like the New Roney No? Favorite place to eat New.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
York City, maybe Mediterranean? Have you been?

Speaker 1 (59:21):
Favorite place to eat in La.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Little Doms?

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Which American city should have a Housewise franchise but doesn't?

Speaker 2 (59:29):
San Francisco dogs are cats? I can't answer that. I
love dogs and cats equally.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Favorite Katie Perry song.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
I's gonna say Woman's for all the obviously, not that
I don't know. A teenage dream.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Okay, favorite Broadway musical.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
These are so hard into the woods okay.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
Favorite candy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Lately Nerds clusters so good.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Favorite soda.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
Die coke? Yeah. Favorite pharmaceutical oh like historically yeah, I
mean any opiate really? Yeah, you get it?

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Three words to describe and just.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Like that psychological torture comma.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
Fun Okay, Why won't Vulture acknowledge my art or that
I even exist? Who is the person there who hates
me so much?

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Your art?

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Yeah? Like my existence?

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Oh? Who hates you? I don't know. I don't work
there full time. Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Favorite drag queen.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
I'm bad at drag queens. Who's the one who has
the show or no, no, like the one who's always complained,
who talks about diet soda and.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Like don't yeah, correct, that is the only answer.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
I couldn't remember her name last one.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
If Andy ever steps down, who would you want hosting unions?

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
John Hill?

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
Oh, my god, Boom or Delta work either way. Lewis
Pipsman tell everyone where to find you?

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Oh me, you can find me on on Twitter. Maybe
I guess I'm not really using that anymore. Blue sky
letterboxed Instagram. Lewis Pipsman on Everything and I have a
podcast chasing Amy Adams. Talk about it. I was on it,
you were on it for Psycho Beach Party.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
I sent it to her husband. I saw that he
responded to, oh, I can't wait to listen, and then
I did. I send him when it was released and
he never responded.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
So I don't think I think you called him hung
in that episode.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
I called him hung.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Yeah, I think it was well, you were joke. You
were joking.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
I thought he was like the best guy in the world.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
You did call him hung in the episode, which is
not like a bad thing. But I don't know if
that's the one you should listen to. He would have
left great.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
I said it knowing that he would probably be listening.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
Yes, I have a podcast about Amy Adams with my
friend Dave McDonald where we go through her filmography. So
John was on our second episode.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
Psycho Beach Party. What what movie are you on to?

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Now onto? Now we Our next episode is catch Me
if you can, a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
I never saw Moneyball.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
She No, she's in the She's in the other baseball one. Oh,
I can't remember, which is embarrassing. We have gone there yet.
She's in another baseball one. I think is like there's
like for the Love of the Game or some bullshit
father daughter thing. That's the one who is going to.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
Be your guest for arrival. That's a prime spot.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
I don't we have that booked, but I can't tease
it yet. I will say we have a lot of
really good guests coming up. But I'm also always afraid
to tease it before we record, because what if someone goes.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Of course, or they you know, or they pass pass
like Doug. Thank you so much, Lewis. Let's do a
Hugs weekend end the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
Visually, my back is sweaty. I love you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
I love your candles.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Thank you for doing this.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Are you going to watch workout? No?

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Probably not great? See you later. Isn't so bad?

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Was it yours?

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
I'm going to sleep. I'm going to bed. Follow me
at John Arthur Hill on Instagram. Share this episode with
your friends, subscribe to the YouTube channel, repost the YouTube videos,
and tell the world about Show Pony and workout. And
if you love Jackie Warner, send us a little subscription
to the Patreon. Over and out from Brooklyn next week,

(01:03:49):
I will be home in La. Thank fing G.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Love you, Over and outs,