Soft Landing - Episode 16 - How to secure a job interview and get shortlisted in New Zealand - Interview with Andre Cronje - Soft Landing

Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
There are over 100,000 people whoimmigrate to New Zealand every year with
the intention to make New Zealand theirhome, leaving behind everything they
know as normal day-to-day life and havingto learn new ways of doing things, new
norms, new cultures, and different values.
There are many people who struggle withthis transition and find it challenging

(00:25):
to adjust and settle so they cancall and make New Zealand their home.
The purpose of this podcast is for meto share my journey and our challenges
with the hope that you can learn from meand my family and have a softer landing.
There will be good days and baddays, but with time, more good days.
I believe we have made theright choice for our family.

(00:47):
We want to try and help you do the same,but hopefully with a softer landing.
This is Soft Landing, and Iam your host, Brett Colette.
Welcome to this podcast, designed foranyone thinking about preparing for, or
who has just immigrated to New Zealand.
Subscribe now so you never miss an episodedrawing from his personal experience.

(01:09):
This series will guide you throughthe process of preparing for your
move and helping you navigatethe challenges of immigration.
Hey everyone, thanks so much forjoining me again on my podcast.
It's, awesome to have you back ifyou've been constantly listening.
I really appreciate it.
And for those of you that arelistening for the first time,

(01:30):
thank you for joining us.
I really hope you, you enjoy theinterview I'm gonna be doing today.
if it's the first time thatyou're actually joining us and for
those that are joining us, I hope
you enjoy the interview
today.
But I do ask if you, haven't listenedto any of my podcast before, please
go back to the first podcast.
Have a listen from the beginning soyou can get to know me a little bit
better and understand what I'm tryingto accomplish here with the podcast

(01:53):
that I'm doing and trying to helpimmigrants make New Zealand their home.
and with that today, that's why I'veactually got a guest today, Andre
Corn, one of, my friends that I usedto work with back in South Africa.
He's offered, to let meinterview him on a podcast.
And the reason I want to interview himis at the moment in New Zealand and I've
spit it out on some of my other content.

(02:13):
It's not really strangling in NewZealand at the moment, finding
jocks, finding it really challenging.
And I know there's a lot of otherfactors outside of our control,
the economy and everything else.
but it's just trying to find thatfirst interview and actually trying to
get that interview and, he's got somereal nuggets of gold that he, wants
to share with us that I just, I had tobe able to share with the rest of you.

(02:36):
That can hopefully help.
Not only immigrants, but anybodyactually get that first interview so
they can actually get jobs so thatthey can actually make it work here in
New Zealand and make New Zealand home.
so with that, I'm going to introduce, andhand over to Andre, introduce himself.
hey Andre.
Thanks for joining us.

(02:56):
thank you for having me.
so let's start where I'm currently, Ithink, and then work backwards from there.
I'm currently, I'm the generalmanager of a defense company.
It's based out of New Zealand.
We have a sales office out of Australia.
The company is owned by a largedefense group in, in, in the uk.
Yeah.
it's been, quite a journeyon how I ended up there.

(03:18):
so we arrived in New Zealandseven years ago, June.
Yeah.
with a wife and three daughters.
I had exactly about $3,000 in mypocket and two, two suitcases each.
So we were not gonna bring a container.
We didn't have the funds to.
bring any type of containers orbuy anything new when we got here.

(03:41):
So we had enough money to puta deposit from home and, we
pretty much went from there.
that's, what we did.
So we landed in Auckland, five o'clock inthe evening, not really know, not really
knowing which direction to go or we weregonna do, yeah, I had one brother-in-law,
in Auckland, so he was there to catch us,and then we stayed with him for two weeks
and then we moved into our first rental.

(04:02):
So New Zealand's been exceptionally goodfor us for the past seven years, and
much, it's been a heck of a journey.
It hasn't been without our troubles.
We've definitely struggled quite a lot.
but all that, that all contributesto the adventure, right?
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So maybe tell me a little bitmore, tell us all a little bit
more, Andre, back in South Africa,what did you do in South Africa?

(04:24):
Why, did you choose tocome to New Zealand?
Why, the move.
in South Africa, I actuallystarted out years and years ago
when I started my work career.
I started in sales.
I was selling Bris at a fire, at a,hardware store, believe it or not, in
barbecues for
Yeah, Verizon Barbecues.
Exactly.
That's where we started.
So I went from there and I took a paycut and I was lucky enough to move

(04:46):
into the IT industry 'cause my cousinknew someone that got me a job, right?
Yeah.
So I started working for 3000random month and, started cleaning
keyboards in the IT industry, andthat's built it up from there.
gained a bit of experience, endedup working at Anglo Platinum
for a while as a contractor.
there I actually did, I moved into thetelecommunications, the guy that did

(05:07):
the telecom, so it didn't show up forwork, so I fell into doing the telecom
stuff right back in the days of old p xs.
So I did all the telecomstuff with all the wiring.
did that for a number of years.
Then, during that time I actuallyjoined the police as a police reservist.
So I spent about 10 years as apolice reservist in South Africa too.

(05:30):
did a, number of things, everythingfrom complaints, to roadblock task team.
We did some high risk warrants.
So there was a number of things that I didover there, but that was in my spare time.
It's a bit of a strange hobby to have,But that's a, we were all over things.
So that's a hobby that I had.
So I worked in the police andthen I built my career in, in the
IT and telecommunications space.

(05:51):
Yeah.
then I moved to Bytes, communicationsfrom Bytes Communications.
I moved over to a company calledatia, which is where we met.
Yeah.
Obviously we worked together at atia.
So I was just, the normal IT techieor telecommunications techie.
I was going from client toclients who are fixing issues.
Fixing false, fixing mistakes.
Yeah.
then I had an idea for atelecommunications system to

(06:14):
actually work underground inSouth Africa and the coal mines.
'cause my dad used to work in thecoal mines for years and I had a
conversation with him one day andhe explained to me the struggles
they have with telecommunications.
I had this idea of let this all workfor a power line communication system.
It's always in my head, right?
So I took a chance one Mondaymorning and I stopped at one of
the mining companies in Boberg.

(06:34):
Walked in the front door, said, Hey, canI have a meeting with your gm please?
I'd like to talk to the guyand put it being expected to
be told to, to, be on my way.
I actually called him and the guy'sname was Gavin Heck of a nice guy.
He came down, he actually gaveme 15 minutes to do this fetch.
So, I did this impromptu pitchwith a motorcycle helmet and
a leather jacket in my head.

(06:54):
Anyway, so I did this pitch and helooked at and went, I think there
might actually be something there.
We'll pull you back.
I left, never thought from him again.
So I went about my day, and, about twodays later, he called me back again.
So I did a second pitch of thisidea that I had in my brain.
Yeah.
And about two weeks after that, hecalled me back up again and said,
all right, we're willing to try this,invest in this idea of yours, but

(07:17):
we wanted you to come and sell it.
So I had a bit of technical background.
I obviously work in telecomsand in it I had a bit of sales
background 'cause I used to sellfireplaces in Bris, which is, yeah.
Not the premium, sales experience,but hey, I had something
going on there for sales too.
And I did this pitch andthey offered me a job.
So that's actually why I leftthe telecommunications industry.

(07:39):
And now ended up in the miningindustry working for a mining company.
Within about six months, I found myselfas being head of their r and d department.
oh wow.
I was running about six or seven differentr and d projects of which one was my idea.
And I was going out tothe mines every day.
This is the best job thatI've ever had in South Africa.
27 was a phenomenal year for us in sa

(08:01):
I, really loved what I did and then,one of my daughters almost got abducted
out of a, out of a chain store.
My wife was in one of the largechain stores in South Africa and
it was my mother-in-law and mydaughter was three at the time.
And, Two gentlemen walked past, grabbedher and almost got out the door with her.
Luckily, some of the otherpeople in intervened and there

(08:23):
was security at the doors.
They blocked off everything and, thesetwo chaps pushed their way through.
Dropped my child and ran away.
Yeah.
And after that, with everything that I'veseen during my work in the polices in
South Africa, that being this four thatbroke the donkeys back, me and my wife
had a conversation and decided, listen.

(08:43):
And about a year, or twobefore that, my brother-in-law
actually moved to New Zealand.
So we were just going, okay, we needto move somewhere else, anywhere
else, but we didn't know anyoneanywhere else, but in new 'cause.
This is where my brother-in-law lived.
fine.
That's where we'll try and go then.
So I took all the leavethat I possibly could.
I sold my motorcycle, liquidatedsome of my assets, got an

(09:05):
airplane, flew to New Zealand.
I spent exactly two weeks.
Everyone told me two weeksis not enough to find a drop.
You cannot find a drop in two weeks.
Even, one of the agents that I spoketo said to me, you waiting your time
going for two weeks, you need to gofor at least a month to two months.
You're not gonna find a job.
Yeah.
I just figured, I'm gonna havefaith in the leap of faith.
Yeah.
Do.
But I can.

(09:25):
So jumped on the plane,came across for two weeks.
I attended probably about five interviews.
Yeah.
In two weeks.
Went back home, gothome, no job, no nothing.
I thought, we'll saveit for two, three years.
I'll give it another go.
And probably about two weeks afterthat, I got a phone call from one of the
interviews and they sent me a job offer.
the job offer was at a media companyin Auckland and it was a door to

(09:47):
door salesman job for $56,000 a year.
So that's what I started on.
Yeah.
Most people will tell you if you're notearning a hundred grand a year, you're
not gonna make a living in New Zealand.
Yes.
We moved here, a family of five.
Yeah.
Me, my wife, and three kids on 56grand a year and $3,000 in our pocket.
Yeah,
the, Visas did everything we flew acrossand this sort of now flows into where
I told you where we landed in AucklandAirport and I said to my children when

(10:10):
we came across, anything you pack in yourtwo bags, it doesn't fit in those bags.
You no longer own.
Yeah.
We gave
things away.
We sold everything.
I quit my job, did everythingwe got on the plane.
We flew to Auckland 56 grand a year.
So I'm gonna be a little bit transparentabout the financial stuff 'cause I
think it's important for people to know.
we put down a deposit on our housewhen a rental, we rented the home.
We were lucky enough tofind one in about two weeks.

(10:31):
Moved into the rental propertyand I took home $820 a week.
My rent was 621 week.
We would pay the rent and buyfood, pay the rent, and buy
a, and pay our little car.
We would pay the rent on the thirdweek, we would buy groceries and then
pay the rent and then we'd buy a littlebit more groceries on the fourth.
That's how we did it.

(10:53):
Then my children, we, you know thepan that you get in the oven right?
When you move into a rental or We ateout of that 'cause we didn't have plates.
So we had about fourfold.
The day before I started working, meand my wife took a walk down to downtown
and I could either buy, underarmspray or I could buy Agile, not boats.

(11:13):
That's the money we had.
I think we had something like 25 bucks.
That's it.
We had nothing, literally nothing.
We had two mattresses we borrowed frommy brother-in-law and we had a small bar
for, we borrowed it from my brother-in-lawand we lived in a completely empty
house with absolutely nothing.
We slept on the floor, the clothes out ofour bags, so I bought some gel, borrowed

(11:33):
some under asprin from my brother-in-law.
so I was presentable at work.
Yeah.
Then, along the way I met a phenomenalguy that I worked with all also South
African guy name is Bu, shout out to Dark.
He's a phenomenal person.
Yeah.
When I got there, he paid my bus fafor me for the first three months
so I could get to working back.
I had no money to get to working back.

(11:54):
Andre, I, there's no way explanations.
You've just mentioned that.
I'm sorry I'm interrupting you.
I know him.
I didn't even know he knewthe same person, so I'm sorry
I'm interrupting on my small
world.
Yeah, just crazy.
we still, go and visit the,with once a year at least.
I would, him and his wife Lana,were literally our guardian angels.

(12:14):
They kept us alone.
He would bring me lunch to workevery day so that I had food to eat.
He paid my bus tickets forme to get to work and back.
And if it wasn't for them, weprobably wouldn't have made it.
so they, kept us alive anyway, sothey also donated things like cups
and they donated, they gave us,like some kitchen wares and he,

(12:39):
they gave us a lot of stuff right.
To actually help us just so wegot some stuff to live with.
Anyway, so.
now I'm doing door to door sales.
So in South Africa I was head of researchand development for a mining company.
I come to, I'm doingdoor to door sale, right?
I put myself back in my career 15 years.
I'm earning a fraction ofwhat I owned in South Africa.
We have an empty house.
We have nothing to live on.

(12:59):
Then we just to get abit of extra money in.
We actually took two home staystudents from one of the schools.
We borrowed some tables and two, twolittle beds from my brother-in-law.
We got the home stay kidsto come and stay with us.
We got $300 a week eachfor the two home stays.
For about two months they stayed with us.
We used that money to buy morefood and to buy BYD devices for our

(13:21):
kids and that kind of stuff, right?
So that's how we got that through.
My wife then finds a job asa, as a casual working in a
warehouse for a flooring company.
Yeah.
In South Africa.
She was, she was an office manager fora really large health insurance company.
Now she's working in a warehousewith a hard hat and gum boots, right?
So she's packed in shelves, sliming onshelves, doing stock like as a casual.

(13:45):
Working, a really, displeasingjob to put it that way.
I'm doing door to door sales, so I wouldget dropped off in a, commercial area
during the day, and I'm literally walkingfrom factory to factory, door to door,
knocking on doors, asking people if theywould like to buy advertising space on
this specific Christian radio station.

(14:05):
which didn't make it easy.
And I'm earning 56 grand a year.
We've got almost no money.
It's, tough, man.
It's hard.
Amazing.
But, the country's beautifuland we love the place, right?
It's all part of the adventure.
so all the time, not once did wehave a poor us mindset looking back.
We just thought, man,this country's beautiful.
We absolutely love being here.
This place is great, right?

(14:26):
And, so then it comes to fruitionthat we would never be able to get
residency as long as we live in Aucklandbecause they deduct 30 points for you.
So we would have notenough points in Auckland.
Now we need to move.
So I start applying for jobs and Iwas lucky enough at that stage to.
Read about and learn aboutsomething called skill stacking.

(14:47):
Which is one of the golden nuggetsthat I found in New Zealand
that works phenomenally well.
We can get into a little bit ofdetail that a little bit later,
sort of skill stacking and, whatmy C should look like, right?
Yeah.
So I said give up and I startapplying for work in all over the
country so I can get out of Aucklandso we can qualify for residency.
I get an interview in Wellington, whichis where we stay at the moment, right?

(15:08):
I get an interview in Wellington, sothe plane ticket is about 180 bucks.
We have $200 a week disposal, so we useour grocery money in the third week.
So we didn't buy food that weekto, we actually went to go eat at
my brother-in-law's house, so wehad food to eat, so we used our
grocery money to buy a plane ticketso I could fly down to Wellington.
I had to ask the company to pick meup at the airport 'cause I had no

(15:30):
money to be able to just grab anysort of transport from the airport
to the office to do the interview.
Do that.
I attend the interview.
We use our grocery money, fly down toWellington, didn't buy food that week.
Attend the interview.
Interview goes well.
As a business development managerfor a, a, property parking company.

(15:51):
So this is where I use my skillstacking for the first time.
And what skill stacking means is, let'ssay I've got sales experience, I had sales
experience in the past, but I also didsome technical work in the ICT industry.
Now I am equipped to dotechnical sales, right?
Because I stack those different skills.
I stack my sales with my technicalskill, with my BDM skill.

(16:14):
You stack these skills into a littleburger and depending on what kind of job
you're applying for, what you're tryingto do, you can rearrange that stack.
Yeah.
According to what would be thebest suited for that specific
position you're going for.
So first it was sales.
So the top layer was all about sales.
Then I had a bit of technical experience.
what?
Now I'm going for thisbusiness development job.

(16:35):
So now I'm going, okay, this isvery technical and it's BDM work.
So now I move the, technical skill tothe top of the pile going, Hey, I've
got all this ICT technical skill.
Yeah, With, all the projects I work within South Africa and telecommunications
as well as I can do sales, I can doall these different things, right?
So the interview goes extremely well.
Another thing that I learned fromthat experience is South Africa's

(16:58):
extremely focused on skill over culture.
Yeah.
How good are you with what you do?
What qualifications have you got?
What jobs have you done before?
It's all around skills, skill, Andthen there's a little bit of culture.
This is something, and I've helped, we'veprobably helped about eight families move
to New Zealand since we've been here.
And usually when I do a bit ofcoaching with 'em, this is why,

(17:21):
this is what I would tell themis New Zealand is the opposite.
They're very much skill over culture,culture overkill, sorry, culture.
They're very much, culture overkill.
Whenever we did interviews at one of theprevious companies where I was, I would
do the interview and then afterwardsthe managing director would come to me
and say, tell me about the candidates.

(17:41):
And I'd go, oh, this ismy preferred candidate.
And he would ask me thequestion, do you like them?
And I would proceed to say, oh, theygot great, they've got a master's degree
or this, and then you goes, no, You'relistening to what I'm saying to you.
Do you like them?
And the MD always used to say to me,if you are at a barbecue or a social
event, would you get along with him?
Do you like them?

(18:02):
And he always used to sayto me, if, if, we can teach
someone how to do a job, right?
But if he's not likable, we'renot gonna get along with him,
that we can't teach him that.
So they're very much of the idea thatthey can teach you how to do your jobs.
They can help you grow yourskills and experience, but.
You're a, if you're a, if you'reasked for that matter, then no

(18:24):
one's gonna wanna work with you.
They can't teach you those soft skillsand how to get along with people.
So very much culture overkill.
Yeah, I learned that too.
So there's another nugget in therefor South Africans when they come.
You don't need to know everything.
You don't need to be the mostqualified person for the job.
You need to be the guide that's gonnafit into the team, not cause any
conflict and be easy to work with.

(18:45):
You're not gonna be the guy, you'regonna be the guy when the chips are
down and they're gonna go, who'sthe guy that's gonna be there?
Have in your back.
People need to point to you.
He doesn't know everything, but man,this guy's gonna be there to help us.
That's what they want.
They want that, that cultural component.
So Andra, is that relevant only toSouth Africans or is it any immigrant?
No, I think that's pretty much withany immigrants right at the moment.

(19:06):
The team that I have is consist of,we've got people from China, I've
got Uran, some Iranians from Iran.
It's actually working for thesoftware devs, guys from France.
I've got, I think I mentioned Chinesebefore, so we've got South Africans,
got guys from the uk and I mustsay a lot of the cultures like the

(19:26):
South African work culture whereit's extremely skills driven, right?
Yeah.
They come with that mentalityof my culture and how I'm gonna
fit into the culture and mypersonality is far less important
than look at my accolades, right?
And usually in an interview, if Ican see someone is competent, I have
a software that I'm interviewing,and they're blatantly competent

(19:47):
what they do, I would usually gointo what do you do for a hobby?
Tell me about your family, to gaugehow we would get along if we work
in an environment and not everyoneagrees, how would they react to that?
would they, disrupt the culturein the company or would they part
of the culture in the company?
And that is a huge thingin New Zealand, right?

(20:09):
We would rather go for somewhere thatwould be a fit for the culture that is not
as qualified as the most qualified person,but he's gonna be a toxic individual.
Where in South Africa, in my experience.
And I just wanna add a footnote to this.
Everything I say is in my experience,I'm not saying this is the way it
is, this is how I experience it.
Anyway, so just to get back to,so then I ended up as business

(20:31):
development for a company in Wellington.
there was a lot of technical,there was a lot of sales, right?
Then I reported directly to thebusiness manager or the general
manager, or the country manager,whichever you wanna call him.
he didn't fell sick for awhile and I was acting right.
So that gave me another thing to puton my CV to say I was acting business

(20:53):
manager for a specific period.
So when you skill stack, there'sanother layer in my stack, right?
Which I can rearrange dependingon what kind of job I'm
gonna be applying for, right?
did that for a while and therewas, a, that was a quite a drama
'cause I, we, had to swap visas,we had to get brand new visas.
It was quite a mission, right?
To get all that done.
Then we needed to move downto Wellington, a little bit of

(21:15):
stuff that we donated inland.
I met another South African thatwas kind enough to donate me the
money to actually move from threeand a half thousand dollars I got
given by another South African.
That's all you need is more than I do.
You actually move from Aucklandto Wellington to rent a truck to

(21:35):
be able to move my stuff, right?
so other South Africans thatwe've met here has been a lifeline
and stepping stones for us.
Like I cannot even tell you, right?
If it wasn't for the South Africancommunity and community members and people
like yourself or what you are doing here,then we would've had a much harder time
and we probably wouldn't have made it.

(21:57):
So, that kind of support wasimmensely important to us.
Anyway, so I moved down to Wellington.
I'm a business development manager,but I'm on a work visa, so I'm not
moving, I'm not doing anything right?
So I, work in the, technical parking,property, sales space, right?
So it's a bit of a weirdindustry that I'm in now.
'cause in South Africa, parking'snot really a thing that exists.

(22:18):
No.
in New Zealand, as soon as you gethere, that's one of the things you're
gonna find out real quick, right?
Parking is wildly expensiveand it's a very emotional
subject for a lot of people.
Parking.
Figured, ever figured parking stole the
estimate as well.
Too long in certain spots.
So yes.
We never
figured parking would be sucha big deal, but anyway, so I

(22:38):
actually work in that industry.
I work in that space, right?
So then we then, ed is COVID hits,everything shuts down, right?
So our residency applicationis in, we are really hoping for
this residency to come through.
Running out of work Visas.
it's, getting to the end of the time wherewe need to reapply work Visas residency,
really hope the residency is gonna comethrough before the work Visa runs out.

(23:01):
It doesn't, everything shuts down.
COVID two years, nothing happens.
After two years, COVID in New Zealandfor us was actually pretty good.
I've, gotta add that too.
If you could have been anywhere in theworld during that period, think New
Zealand was a pretty good place to be in.
I know there's a lot of talk aboutall the different, lockdowns and

(23:24):
Auckland was locked down for so longand where we stayed, we had a little
back garden and a very tiny place.
Very tiny.
the house we lived in Wellingtonwhere we just moved here, would
fit into my garage in South Africa.
A kitchen with a sliding door wecould open at a little garden outside.
Me and my wife set ourselves up.
We worked from home opposite each other.
It was beautiful weather,pretty much every single, so

(23:45):
we were outside in the garden.
We were just spendingfamily time together.
For us, it was a really good time.
We worked from home.
The whole family was together.
We were in this absolutely beautifulenvironment and in the first year
or two that you're in New Zealand,you're still in the honeymoon phase.
everything just blows your mind.
It's so beautiful.
And it was so peaceful.
It was great.
It was a bad time.

(24:06):
In history.
It was a pretty good time for us.
It wasn't bad, it was.
Anyway, so we go through allthat and then I get a call from a
technology company in Wellington.
They've been around for 104years, believe it or not, right?
They run, I'm not gonna say who theyare, but they run parking services for
councils and water treatment plants.
They do councils in Australia.
Urge software business, right?

(24:27):
Software as a service.
And I get a recruiter that contactsB and says to me, listen, I have a
sales manager position available.
Would you be interested inapplying for this position?
I go, I would love toapply for this position.
It's a lot more money than I'm earningat the moment, how I'm gonna work visa.
I've got a pending residency application.
Sorry mate, I can't do it.

(24:48):
I just can't move now.
It's just too much of a hassle.
That was, he called me as I recall,on a Thursday, three years after we
applied for residency, that followingMonday my immigration officer calls
me on the phone and says, Hey, Igot your residency application.
Can we do a quick interview, right?
So I almost jumped outta my skin, raninto the boardroom, locked myself in

(25:10):
there, did a 40 minute interview withthe immigration agent, with our case
officer, and at the end of the callhe says, yep, everything looks good.
No problem.
You should have yourvisas within a day or two.
So I immediately proceed to jump on thephone, call the recruiter back and say,
Hey, I didn't have residency on Friday.
I might have it this week.
Is that position's still available?

(25:31):
he sets up an interview and Igo for an interview at, for the
sales manager position at a largesoftware company in Wellington.
So I get that job, which is great.
Now I have a company vehicle, right?
So there's a bit of a buildup there.
Now I have a company vehicle.
I'm earning a bit more money, my wife.
In the meantime, when wemoved to Wellington, Phil
worked for the same company.
They just transferred her down hereand they gave her a position working

(25:52):
in operations where at the momentshe's now progressed to being the
operations coordinator for the entiregreater Wellington region, right?
Still working at the same company,earning a great salary company vehicle.
She's built herself up from beinga. Casual in a, in, in, in, a
warehouse to virtually being theoperations manager for the, Wellington
Region operations coordinator.

(26:13):
She runs all of the co operations forthe Wellington region at the moment.
The same company.
Just goes to show that if you havebetter a dedication, you're easy to
work with, you put to the culturethey liked you'll make immense
progress within the organizations.
Yeah.
With my wife, the testament of that.
So my path forward was jumping from stoneto stone through different companies.

(26:34):
Each time I jumped up.
Yeah.
She stayed within the same companyand she climb the ladder straight up.
That's what she did.
So we took different path, but bothof us had a, had that progression to
show that I was at, in the nationalsales manager position was actually
first just normal sales manager.
So
yeah.
looking after all of the WellingtonCouncils north and south island,

(26:55):
the greatest perk of the job wasI got to on company funds, drive
the entire north and south island.
Once a year to visit everysingle council, right?
Because they're all their customers.
So I'd go do a council visit, it'd takeme about two weeks, drive north and south
island, stop at every single council.
So I've seen every town in New Zealand,north and south that has parking services

(27:16):
and water treatment plan services.
And I spent time there.
That was what probably what are thegreatest things that I've ever done.
Yeah, that was actually amazing.
And it wasn't even light diamond.
It was.
yeah.
So I, got to spend North andSouth Island to see all of it.
It was great.
But then I became the national salesmanager for the same company, right?
Running all of the technical teams.
So all the software devs,hardware development, doing all

(27:38):
the contract, all the sales.
'cause now remember I'vegot sales technical, now I
have running software teams.
I have running hardware teams.
I've got business development.
I've worked in property, I'veworked in, parking services.
So now my skill stacking cake hasa couple of layers to it, right?
Which I can now reorder dependingon where I would like to move.

(28:02):
So from there, I was, eventuallythe national sales manager.
Then one day I'm sitting, when yougo on to seek and you apply for
certain jobs, you can add alerts.
Yes.
they would email you about certain jobs.
So I get an email about this one position.
All it says is General managerdoesn't say what for who, how, what,

(28:23):
with a whole list of requirementsin this list of requirements.
I'm now matching this list ofrequirements, With my skill stack.
And I draw correlations.
I go, I've got that, I'vegot that, I've got that.
I've got that.
I am not a master of anyof these things at all.
Yeah.
But I'm a jack of all these trades, right?

(28:43):
So I've never been a sales guruin my life, but I've done sales.
Never been.
I'm not a technical guru.
I've worked with people that aretechnically far smarter than me, right?
But I've got the technical experience.
I know enough to know when something'snot true, and that's all I needed to know.
Anyway, so I stack all these skills.
I applied for this job and Iapply with a one page series.

(29:03):
Just one page.
Yeah.
Or a general manager position.
But I spent, probably two hours writingthat one page because I think this
is a, good opportunity to explainwhat I mean by, it's important to
be able to know how to compile a cv.
'cause when you talk to recruitingagents and that kind of thing,

(29:24):
they would, everyone goes onabout a New Zealand format, cv.
So I've now asked, oh, a number ofrecruiters that I worked with, what
does a New Zealand format CV look like?
And they all look at me like I'm crazy.
They go, what you talking about?
And then, people that I work with atall these different companies where
we did recruitment, I would alwayssay to the HR lady, the recruitment
people, the, recruiters, the generalmanagers I used to report to, I say to

(29:48):
them, can you explain to me what a NewZealand format she did looked like?
And no one knew what I was talking about.
Kiwis don't know what a NewZealand format CV is, right?
So when they charge people five or sixor 10,000 rand to bake your CV into
a New Zealand format cv, I'm alwaysthinking to myself, what are they doing?
'cause I don't know whatthis looks like, right?
Maybe there is something like that.
In my experience and in theKiwis experience that I've

(30:10):
spoken to, no one knows.
However, you need to be ableto know how to compile cv.
So in that position, Ilearned two key fundamentals.
I learned compiling the CV isextremely important, what it
looks like is not really relevant.
Don't put a photo of yourself in your cv.
It look here, in my opinion, right?
Not a good idea.

(30:30):
And by no means the CV expertwhat it should look like.
But I can tell you what should be in it.
When you look at the, this is what I did.
When you look at the job ad,
let, let, me start with this.
You cannot have a shotgunapproach with your cv.
You can't have one CV and then apply fora hundred jobs with the same cv, right?
You're not gonna get an interview.

(30:52):
Yeah.
If you're gonna be applying for 50 jobs,you have 50 individually written cvs.
It is a ton of work.
It takes extremely long, butthis is how you do it properly.
I would read through that cv.
I would identify specific keywordsin the cv and there's more behind
it than just it going on to the cv.

(31:12):
The systems are built.
You saying reading
through the cv, do you meanreading through the job ad?
sorry, reading through the job ad. Yes,so, I'm reading through the job advert and
they give you the hints of what they want.
Certain keywords.
Yeah.
I would then write my CV to containthose exact specific keywords.
And if you read through the job ad, youcan identify what those keywords are by

(31:36):
just reading through the ad. You can see,
yeah.
It would be executivereports, that kind of stuff.
You can see when there are keywords.
Yeah.
You write your CV to match that actualjob ad. if they say scaling systems, but
you have build systems that are scalable,you go and change that to scaling

(31:58):
systems, so it exactly matches the job ad.
What you do then is you can see fromthe job ad what is the skill stack
they require, and probably if you'relucky enough in sequence too, right?
What's most important to least important?
So you need to do an analysis onevery job ad you wanna apply for.
And with the introduction of ai,you can make this even easier.

(32:19):
You can drop that ad into chat GPT andtell it list for me all the keywords
in this job ad, and tell me theskill stack for most least important.
It'll tell you.
Yep, right?
All you do then you then rewriteyour skills component on your cv.
To match their most least important isyour skills are most least important.
Is this a sales position that, that,that, has a technical component?

(32:41):
then I'm a salesman with technicalexperience or is it a technical position,
but I also need to be able to do alittle bit of business development.
Then I'm a technical expert, butI've also got BDM experience, right?
So that's how you do your skills stack.
So that's why I say you needto know how to compile a cv.
Yeah.
I think one of the most importantthings you've said now, Andre,
that people need to understand.

(33:01):
I know a lot of people, likeyou said, they say it's a QE
based CV or whatever else.
I think maybe, maybe for the benefit ofdoubt, I think a lot of people are saying
that because as an immigrant, you don'tunderstand what you're explaining now,
that it has to be in a, format compiledyour CV in a format that'll actually get.
The attention of the hiring managerthat he'll go, oh, it's matching.

(33:24):
I want to see you.
I think that's what needs to man forour viewers out there, or my viewers out
there, is they really need to understandthat when people are saying Kiwi.
But now be careful.
Some people out there will go say, let meki fire your CV and make it Kiwi format.
But it making it look pretty.
Okay.
Looking pretty is not gonna help you.
It's, what Andre's trying to explainnow of the actual contact and how

(33:45):
the words are actually matching.
I do have a question for you, Andre.
I really get what you're saying.
This is, gold.
It really is so important for people.
But what about ai when you'reapplying for those jobs, so you're
getting your one pager CV alignedwith the job ad and you're applying.
Do you think AI's reading that andmatching it up and trying to see

(34:05):
what it doesn't have the keywords?
Yeah.
Okay.
Take it to the next round.
So it's shortlisting or not.
So that's a very good point.
So let's get into that ai.
Yes, absolutely.
However, before it even getsto an AI component, right?
During my, my, my nationalsales manager tenure and where
I am now as a general manager.

(34:25):
I have recruitment agents obviouslykicking my door down, wanting to bring
us, wanting to bring us candidates, right?
So they always wanna comeand meet and have coffees and
that kind of stuff, right?
And what I find immensely interesting,whenever we meet with them and we
talk to them and sit down with them, Iusually ask 'em to explain to me what
systems they have in place, right?

(34:46):
To screen candidates.
I can tell you now, 90% of themwhat they would do when they
place the job ad on seek, right?
There are certain criteria when youplace a job, a on seek, that you
can set up certain filters, right?
Is the person in country or offshore?
Offshore candidates if you areapplying from offshore, and you

(35:07):
won't know whether that ad was setup that way, if you are applying from
offshore, your CV will gets grabbedthe second if the first cat, right?
So it never gets, it nevereven gets past the first.
That's why I usually say to people,if you are finding it hard to
find a job from South Africa, anda lot of people do, I mean it's
completely possible a lot of people.
But if you're finding that hard andpeople go, okay, is there really

(35:29):
an advantage of being onshore?
Yes, there is.
Because in your CV you have a plussix four New Zealand phone number and
you have a New Zealand address, right?
The first gate on thosesystems will check two things.
It'll scan for a New Zealand numberin your cv, it'll look for a New
Zealand address in your CV andit will check the box on shore.

(35:52):
That means you automaticallypass the first gate.
Doesn't even matter what's in your cv.
It doesn't even matter whether youare qualified for the job or not.
Just those three things willget you past the gate one.
and a lot of these recruitmentcompanies use, not just seek, they
would place the add-on seek and alot of the times they would just
let all applicants through on seek.
Then they have internal screening systems.

(36:13):
They would look for phonenumbers, addresses on offshore.
That's the first thing I would look.
Second gate, you'll see we needs to get tobefore it even gets to each human, if you
remember those key words we spoke about.
Yeah.
They have in their system, they wouldhave, if it passes gate one, the
guys on shore, he has a local number.
'cause I can call him during myday and have an interview with him.
I know where he lives so I caninvite them for an interview.

(36:36):
And he gets to the second gate.
Does he have the followingkeywords in his cv?
That's why you custom write your cv.
So you can pass the second gate, right?
So it's gonna scan for certain keywords.
Scalability, it's gonna lookfor management experience,
business development, technical.
It's gonna look specifically for ICT,it Cs, and SaaS, for instance, right?

(36:59):
If you look, if you're applying forsoftware, it's a service role, that kind
of stuff, it'll scan those keywords.
Chat, GPT, in the beginning had alreadytold you what those keywords were.
Make sure they've written wordfor word in your cv, right?
That means now you'llpass the second gate.
So now you understand howthe recruitment systems work.
To pass those gates.
None of this had to do with your skills.
None of this has to do with yourqualifications or experience.

(37:22):
All this has to do with is, do you knowhow to write a CV and are you on site?
Are you, actually onshore?
Are they able to callyou during their day?
And Kiwis are very old school thatI found a lot of them, especially
the very senior position TVs, right?
They want to shake your hand.
They want to look you in the eye andthey wanna see whether they like you

(37:43):
because that's extremely important.
And I've gotta say somethingabout being an African, speaking
African, a South African and I thinkSouth Africans in general, right?
We are very vocal with our hands.
We talk like this a lot, right?
I've had to learn to fold myhands and keep them to my chest

(38:04):
when I sit and have conversationswith a lot of the Kiwis, right?
'cause this is a bit too much.
Also, we are.
Really used to being, and weare comfortable with being
confrontational when we need to be.
Because that's the work environmentwhere we come from, right?
We have a stand your ground mentality.
I will stand my ground, right?

(38:24):
And I will argue if I have to andif I'm cuss me off in traffic, it's
gonna know all about it, right?
Because it's the south africannessthat gets brought up within
you when you live there.
'cause our way of life, dear,that is not their way of life.
They quickly pick up on that.
And it is rather distasteful.
They are not a big fan of theconfrontational component of,

(38:45):
and I had to learn that, right?
Luckily I worked for a,extremely direct kiwi.
There was very experienced in thissort of stuff, and that had worked
with a lot of South Africans.
That poached me a lot whenI was a software company.
to elaborate on that a little bit morefor the greater audience, because.
What I'm meaning is you've explainedwhat a South African is like a culture

(39:07):
like or what we are with our bodylanguage way we are in the work world.
Okay.
Because we've had to be, but that's SouthAfrican try and rather broader audience.
So it wouldn't only be benefit immigrants,south Africans, but all immigrants.
What are you actually looking for?
What is the culture that actuallycould book Oh, expand on that for
us a little bit, Andre, if you can.
Okay.

(39:28):
So a a, very good way toapproach that is, my hand.
This is what I had to do right.
In order to get myself to be, palatable,if I can put it that way, right?
Is not be extremely vocal with my hands.
I needed to tone down my voice alittle bit 'cause I could be rather

(39:48):
aggressive in my way of speaking.
Tone down my voice a little bit.
And then,
if I can use it in a,in, in, in this sense as,
when I spoke to Peter, forinstance, let me give an example.
I spoke to him one day and I, and we wereactually talking about movies, right?
And I said to him, you reallyhave to watch this movie, right?

(40:11):
It's a good movie.
'cause in South Africa we wouldgo, you gotta watch this movie.
And he said, can I give you a tip?
I went, yeah, sure, of course.
He goes, don't tell me what I have todo because I don't have to do nothing.
A good approach would be is I would rehighly recommend this is a good movie
and I think you would enjoy it, right?
So there's just a little bit of a softerapproach on certain things, right?

(40:32):
Instead of us being a little bitblunt sometimes, approaching a
situation with, instead of statements,approaching a situation with questions.
So in a meeting, someone wouldsay something and I would
go, I don't agree with that.
That's a statement.
Or I would go, do you maybe think that,would you be open to a different idea?

(40:54):
Yeah.
So I have.
Changed my statementsto questions a lot more.
'cause questions are a lot morepalatable and it actually invites
a bilateral communication.
Yeah.
Whereas every time the South Africanin me comes out a little bit, I would
go, oh, whoa, I don't agree with that.
because from my experience,I know, This, and this.

(41:17):
Exactly.
'cause I'm correct.
My logic is undeniable.
That is how I'm used to operating.
But when I came here, I would ratherstick up my hand, wait for your
turn, and then just say, are youopen to a different point of view?
Don't you think if we maybedo this and this, we could
plausibly have this outcome?
What's your view on that?

(41:38):
Yeah.
And that made me, thatopened a lot of doors for me.
I must say from a culturalperspective, instead of being direct
and confrontational, I would ratherraise concern and invite conversation.
Yeah.
Being just a littlebit softer in that way.
However, I can also add, don'tnot be your South African self.

(42:00):
Yeah.
from my experience, they,have a lot of respect for us.
They like South Africans in general.
they find us to be extremely hardworkingpeople and they find us to be,
and I've been told before, honest,family orientated people, we can
just be a little bit abrasive sunk.
So if we can just take that abrasiveedge off a little bit, In approaching

(42:25):
situations with questions and invitingdialogue instead of being direct and
confrontational, that rounds us off.
we're likable, we're easy to work with.
If you can do that.
Likable, easy to work with.
We are hardworking, we arereally family orientated people.
Some of the older kis are reallymuch like that, so that then puts

(42:45):
us whole package together for them.
Which, and, I just found those,tips just to be extremely helpful.
So to get back to, we werestill busy with the different
systems at the internal system.
so you've got, now, you know now howyou've got the job ad you wrote your
CV properly, you got past gate one.
You got past the secondgate, your third gate.

(43:07):
Now it's gonna get to a person, right?
So the, recruitment person, therecruitment manager, whatever the case may
be, will now sit down and read your c frompersonal experience from doing this a lot.
They are gonna read the first half ofthe first page, and they're gonna throw
it on either one or two piles, right?

(43:28):
So that if you're lucky and theyhave a better time, they might read
the whole first page, one page.
That's what you got, right?
Where they say you got, the first fiveseconds to make an impression, right?
When you meet someonein person, same thing.
The first page of your CV gonnamake it or break it gonna depend
on which pile you end up on.
So you're either gonna go straightin the bin or you're gonna go on.

(43:50):
Next on, on the interview pile.
So that's why if you submit a cd,that's gonna be, 10 pages, right?
Everyone picks it up andgoes, oh, a novel, right?
They one have to read a novel.
So again, with the emergenceof ai, this helps a lot.
Summarize.
Summarize, yes.
What about cover, cover letters?

(44:11):
What's your opinion on cover letters?
Cover letters are, it's good toadd a good cover letter, right?
But in my experience, usually whatthey'll do, they'll gain through the cover
letter in about two seconds, go Yep, yep.
Whatever.
And then they'll read thefirst page of your cv, right?
So I'm not saying don'tadd a cover letter.

(44:31):
I've always added a cover letter.
The cover letter is more this iswho I am, dear hiring manager, I'm
interested in the position for thefollowing reasons, da that's exactly
what all the other 342 applicationscover letters look like as well.
Yep.
Yep.
One thing that's gonna be unique toyou is the first page of your C. So add

(44:53):
a cover letter, do a good job at it,but make sure the first page of your
CV tells them what they need to know.
Why are you relevant for this specificposition you are applying for?
Not in detail high level to just say,I'm a technical sales expert with cares
experience done business development.
So I have a little thing onmy CV that says Skills, right?

(45:15):
And I bullet point some of them where theycan go check, check, check, Oh, this looks
like this guy has everything that I need.
Both the CV go in the interview pile bythe time it reaches the second human.
Now you've gone through three differentgates only on the fourth gate generally
will someone page past the first pageand actually look, do you have the
degree you say you claim you have.

(45:36):
Do you have the experience, youclaim you have, that sort of thing.
They would then read it.
That's at that point then wewould be called and say, Hey,
come and do an interview with us.
Let's meet with you.
Let's see what they like.
The soft skills that we spokeabout before becomes very
handy in that situation, right?
'cause if you are gonna be sittingin an interview and you come across
as too abrasive, too aggressive,or if you come across an interview,

(46:00):
you can answer questions andthe dismounting in an interview.
Please.
If I can just mention one or twothings I have done of probably
over three or 400 interviews inNew Zealand as the employer, right?
Yeah.
I've, recruited close on50, 50 something odd people.
I've built, three technical softwareand hardware development teams

(46:22):
across two different companies.
Depends, and in software, thedismount, and what I mean by
dismount, when someone asks you aquestion is immensely important.
Someone asks you a question and.
Tell me about your technical background.
You'll have someone that'll waf onfor 20 minutes because once they

(46:42):
start talking, they don't know whento dismount and keep quiet, right?
So answer the question, don't repeatyourself, answer the question,
get to the point and zip it sothat the hiring manager can ask
you the next question, right?
The dismount is important and for the loveof everything good in the world, right?

(47:02):
I did this in the beginning.
A lot of South Africans do this, and I'veseen this a lot in different interviews,
specifically with, and strangelyenough, other cultures don't do this.
I've interviewed a lot of Chinese becausethey are phenomenally smart people.
They've got great work culture, right?
And, they're probably some of the bestsoftware developers I've ever seen, right?

(47:25):
they don't do this.
Iranians don't do it.
French people don't do it.
English, don't do it.
It's only a South African that will saythe phrase, I am willing to do anything.
And I understand why I did thesame thing in the beginning.
They're so desperate to find a job, moveto New Zealand, bring their families here.
This is, in my opinion, the singlebest place in the world to live.

(47:48):
I won't have anywhere else.
This is my experience.
This is my opinion, canrock the differ with it.
But this is my opinion,
that's all one out morepeople make it out.
Love it.
And, understand.
They, mean what they say.
They would literally do anything to come.
But don't say that.
Yeah.
Because every company that employs someonefor a specific reason, they want to

(48:11):
employ a specialist in a specific thing.
If I'm an, if I'm gonna employ asalesperson, I need a specialist salesman.
If I'm gonna be employing a softwaredeveloper, a hardware engineer,
a process engineer, I need aspecialist in what I'm going to do.
And if you say I'm willing to doanything, you dilute your worth.

(48:33):
You dilute your value.
And you portray yourself as a jackof all trades and not a specialist.
Another thing you do not say in aninterview sleeves is, I am an extremely
fast learner because I'm an extremely fastlearner, means I dunno how to do what you
want me to do, but I'll learn it quickly.
If you're willing to take me and waituntil I learn how to do this thing.

(48:56):
Don't say that.
When you go and sit in an interview,be confident in what you do.
I will not do absolutely anything.
I will do this specific thingbecause I'm a specialist in this
thing and I will do it in incrediblywell and that's why you need me.
Yeah.
You are a specialist in what you do.
And I must say thathelps enormously, right?
Whenever I sit in an interview in SouthAfrica and specifically do this and they

(49:19):
mention those phrases, I can see ourhiring manager and the head of department,
whichever department they're gonna, Ican see them roll their eyes, right?
'cause they only hear this from SaaS.
If I do get an opportunity to get themfor two seconds before I would usually go,
please don't say that in this sentence.
It does not help you.
So from understanding how to compile thecv, how to work in the interviews, how

(49:44):
to invite questions, understanding howto recruitment systems work, how to get
through those different gates, right?
He would probably be able to geta pretty good job offer, right?
So if I can be a hundred percenthonest with you, when I got the
job as the general manager ofa defense organization, right?
The last one I told youthat I applied for, right?
I went for, the interview,was a big panel.

(50:07):
I'm really nervous.
I'm not even gonna lie, right?
That was that.
That was very stressful.
But in that interview, I mentioneda couple of things where I said to
them that I am not the most competenttechnical person in the world, right?
But I know how to build a team that is.
That's exactly what they wanted to hear.
'cause they needed someone to comeand look after and fix the culture.

(50:31):
That's specifically what they needed.
And that was a very small fiveor six word, one-liner way at the
bottom of the job description.
'cause they send you the JDbefore you go for the inquiry.
Yeah, And I read, sat andmeticulously read the job
description right at the bottom.
They mentioned that they would wantsomeone to come and fix the culture.

(50:51):
And I thought to myself, that'sprobably the hardest thing to do,
that they've got listed on the C.
Right?
The contracts and the businessdevelopment stuff and all the
software, hardware, all this gotthese, all skills that we all have.
But I can go to another guy thatknows more than me and get If you
don't know how to rebuild a culturewithin an organization, you don't
know how to employ the right peoplewith the right cultural approach.

(51:13):
That's a mess.
So I must say I chose that.
'cause I, picked up on, that's somethingimportant in the job description to them.
It's probably the hardest thingthat they're gonna need to achieve.
And I focused on that quiteheavily in the interview.
And I was lucky enough to have hitthe target bullseye on that one.
So I wrote a CV for a job thatI actually wasn't qualified for.

(51:35):
I managed to secure an interview for ajob that I wasn't qualified for, right?
I managed to get through theinterview for a position that
I was not qualified, right?
I really wasn't.
'cause I wanted someone with a,degree in electronic engineering.
I had, I have a trick.
I have standard 10, I have high school.
That's it.
I didn't have any of the tertiaryqualifications that they required for me.

(51:57):
But when I sat in the meeting, Ididn't have the technical skills,
the background, none of the stuffthey particularly required for me.
But they liked me and they liked me a lot.
So I've been in the positionnow for three years.
I've rebuilt the entire company.
When I. Because COVIDRavage the company, right?

(52:18):
there wasn't, there's probablya, quarter of the staff left.
I've now rebuilt it to where we haddouble the staff we had before COVID.
I've probably built another 20, 20, 30odd people on top of the team that we had.
They have a really good relationshipwith, with some of the senior leadership
team, the directors that I report to.

(52:40):
And the whole point was, is thatI wasn't the most qualified, but
I was gonna bring a good culture.
I understood how to build teamsand they liked me, and they f and
they felt they could trust me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That wa and that, that was themake it or break it for me.
So at the moment now I've been in thatposition for the past three years.
I'm extremely happy with thecompany where I'm at the moment.

(53:01):
for the first time I think in ourlives between myself and my wife,
she's got a fairly good position.
I've got a fairly good position.
And I must say, I've just gottaadd something else to you from
where I landed in New Zealand.
Having a door-to-door salesmanjob using all of these things that
I've mentioned in this interview.
Just applying them at the right times.

(53:22):
I went from door-to-door sales juniorto remember, junior, door-to-door
salesman to being the general managerof one of the larger defense companies
in Australasia in four years.
Four years.
Took me four years.
I've been in the, I've been inthe country for seven years.
I've now been in my generalmanager position for three.
Yeah.
From where I landed to GM in four years.

(53:44):
And all that was, compiling that,that, steel stacking, writing
the cvs, applying for the jobs.
And then luckily I worked withsomeone that helped me to change
my soft skills and just, changemy mannerisms a little bit.
And even around the accent, SouthAfricans have a lot, have quite a

(54:05):
strong accent, especially my wife.
She's quite, quitesensitive about her, accent.
Yeah.
And I spoke to a guy one day, atthe council and he said to me,
don't, try and change your accent.
He says It's something that makes youunique just 'cause you sound different.

(54:25):
This isn't the fact thatyou sound different.
Use that to your advantage.
Yeah.
Because if you just sound likeeveryone else, you camouflaged from
an auditory perspective, right?
Yeah.
The fact that
I, the fact that I sound differentreally plays to my advantage.
'cause now people have somethingelse to remember you by.
Yeah.
Hey, what was that guy?
I did come to me, the South African guy.

(54:47):
So they gonna remember me 'cause I'mfrom a different background and I
sounded a little bit different, so, don'tbe self-conscious about your accent.
It's a good thing.
And also the, there are so manydifferent cultures, so many different
people and so many, different.
languages and it's purelymulticulturally in New Zealand, right?

(55:11):
That no one will be put off by it at all.
So I just wanna mention that to the SouthAfricans, a lot of us that come across, a
lot of us go, oh, I sound a bit different.
I've got it.
I've heard,
say this, especially, oh,Africans from South s background,
they've often said that to me.
And so I'm glad that on,which is so important.
Andre.
Look, I, think what you've sharedwith us today, I'm so grateful.

(55:35):
I think there, there's goals heretoday that's really gonna help people.
I think currently, and it standsin New Zealand at the moment,
I can see it with the audience.
A lot of people are already strugglingwith finding those jobs, nevermind people
outside the country just trying to get in.
That's one thing to try to be ableto move here, but there's people
that are on the market at the moment.
We've just come out of a recessionor on our way out of a recession.

(55:56):
The market is tough at the moment.
So I think it's think that is, this isgold to try and help people and not just
South Africans, not just immigrants,actually anyone on trying to find a job.
I think you, you've highlightedsome things that are so important
and I've been smiling throughthis whole interview because I've
done a lot of interviews as well.
Again, I've been hiring a lot of peopletoo and stuff that you're saying.

(56:18):
It's yep, tick.
yep.
That's why I put it on that file.
Yep.
I rolled my eyes a hundred percent.
It's gold, what you've shared here.
So what I can really do is, justthank you a hell of a lot, Andre,
for taking the time to sharewith us to try and help others.
So it's, like paying it forwardto try and help them just be able
to secure their job and you're notonly what machine around a job here.

(56:39):
Andre.
I really just also wanna thankyou for opening up and telling
us a little bit about your story.
it's unbelievable how you cameacross here with your family
with literally nasty Okay.
And how you built your way up.
You have shown grit that is like.
The true meaning of grip.
Okay.
The people that come across withway more than you, and we complain
a lot, but to come across with whatyou've come across to make it work.

(57:02):
I think that's also what I want peopleto see is that it's tough out there,
but you still can make this work.
There still is a beautiful ta every,if it's something you want enough,
you will fight for it and you'llmake it happen and you've just got
it, something and you never give up.
So I really appreciate it.
Maybe I know I've, said a lot, but I wannaclose with what, with you maybe, what are

(57:25):
the key things you would like to be yourmessage to just land with the audience?
What are the key thingsyou want them to take home?
Just let's finish up with those sothat they can hear that from you.
moving to New Zealand
is, a real commitment, right?

(57:46):
and, I always say to peoplethat this country will give
you what you give, right?
And it, really is.
And that's not, that's truly, and,I have a deep love for South Africa,
but I can definitely say that's,not something that I found there.
I gave it my everything andit didn't give it back to me.
Yeah.
My story is just, if you come to NewZealand and you give it a good attitude,

(58:06):
whether you struggle or not, right?
Get out, man.
This place is insanely beautiful, right?
There's so many gems all around.
There's waterfalls, there'swalking trails, there's
all sorts of things, right?
Get out and enjoy this country.
And the other thing is become a part ofthe communities when you get here, right?

(58:27):
There's, no point in sitting inyour home and going, oh, I don't
feel at home in New Zealand, howmany Kiwis have you gone out with?
how many, how, involved haveyou gotten in the Mari culture?
spend a bit of time with these people.
they're amazing people and theylike the Saudi, but they're not
gonna reach out to you first.
When you're at work,make friends with them.

(58:48):
Guide from them.
Learn from them.
Something that we should not dois in all of our conversations
with 'em, we always used to, I seea lot of South Africans do this.
We go, oh, back home inSouth Africa, we this, Yeah.
Don't do that.
At one of those other little things thatwe just need to calm down a little bit.
We're in New Zealand, so when Ifeel the urge of saying, in South

(59:08):
Africa we do, this and this.
I, rather go, in New Zealand Isee that you do this and this.
Why is that?
It makes it so you are truly inquisitiveabout the place and the situation
you're in now and they really like you.
And if you commit to this countryand you really do well, you work
hard that you will get somewhere.

(59:30):
I tell you now, you will get somewhere.
If you have a good mindset, youhave a good attitude and you really
embrace this country and that culture.
I can tell you now,you will get somewhere.
I have so many South African friends thathave come to New Zealand and have been.
Immensely successful likeyou cannot believe, right?
I, have one specific case of a good friendthat came across and they lived in that

(59:55):
car for the first, I think three weeks.
They bought a little car,they lived in the car.
His wife and children sat in thereception area of his business while he
went to work every single day, right?
This is how they worked.
They suffered 10 timesworse than us at the moment.
He owns a massive plumbing,electrical business.
He built from the ground up it's boatsand jet skis and Ford Rangers and all

(01:00:17):
sorts of things you can imagine, right?
Because they had to grit toget through the hard part.
They got to residency andthey built something right?
And if you have the grit to get throughthe hard part, make it to residency, and
that, that, proverbial loses off yourneck and you can start doing something.
And if you put a bit of effort in there,you will have unparalleled success.
I tell you now.

(01:00:37):
And, happiness is peace, right?
I always say.
Happiness is peace.
If you've got peace in your household,you've got peace at work, you've got
peace in your country, you've gotpeace in your private life, that is the
happiness is the side effect of peace.
New Zealand is a manifestationof peace for me, right?
Get through the hot bits.
It's not gonna be, but if you cando that, you can get to the peaceful
stage in your New Zealand journey.

(01:00:59):
Oh man, it's good.
It's so good.
Oh
Andre,
thank you.
I couldn't have closed any better.
That's really awesome.
So thank you.
I have no doubt this is gonna helpa lot of those, people out there
be it immigrants or not, that arealready struggling to find their job.
So thank you for sharing this insight.
It's a pleasure.
Thank you for having me, help folks.
and I really appreciate it.
Andre, you mistake and we'll speak soon.

(01:01:22):
Thanks Ray.
Alright, cia.
Bye.

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Soft Landing - Episode 16 - How to secure a job interview and get shortlisted in New Zealand - Interview with Andre Cronje

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Soft Landing - Episode 16 - How to secure a job interview and get shortlisted in New Zealand - Interview with Andre Cronje