May 27, 2025 • 29 mins
How do you find your voice—whether in writing, speaking, or leading? In this episode of Soulful Speaking, I sit down with Amy Vogel, an author and book coach who helps women share their stories and turn their publishing dreams into reality.
Amy’s journey took her from sales to preaching to publishing, and she shares the lessons she’s learned about authentic communication along the way. We dive into relational speaking, overcoming the fear of not having a story to tell, and why embracing imperfection leads to deeper connections.
TAKEAWAYS
- Your story is already inside you. Many people think they don’t have a story worth sharing, but it's often just waiting to be uncovered.
- Speaking and writing are both relational. Whether on stage or on paper, great communication is about connecting with your audience.
- Perfection kills connection. The more we try to be perfect, the less we engage with the people we’re speaking to.
- Your audience is rooting for you. Whether you’re auditioning, giving a talk, or publishing a book, people want you to succeed.
- Set an intention for your audience. Before speaking or writing, ask: What do I want people to experience?
- Be the guide, not the hero. When sharing your story, remember—you’re not Luke Skywalker; you’re Yoda, guiding your audience.
- Creativity is a process, not an instant download. Writing (like speaking) is about discovering clarity through the act of doing.
- Don’t be afraid to have fun. The best speakers and writers allow room for spontaneity and human moments.
- Authenticity is what people remember. More than your words, they remember how you made them feel.
About Amy
Amy Vogel is an author and women's book coach. Her fiction books are themed for feminine empowerment, offering readers a fresh perspective on what it means to be a woman. Through her nonfiction works, she provides practical tools for healing and finding hope. As an entrepreneur and coach, Amy is dedicated to empowering women to share their stories, helping them cast a vision for a better world by turning their publishing dreams into reality.
Connect with Amy
www.amywvogel.com
https://www.facebook.com/amywvogel
https://www.instagram.com/awvogel
Take the Speaker Alter Ego quiz to find out which protective mask hides your natural radiance so you can learn how to get present, connect deeply, and share your vision when it matters most!
https://voice-matters.com/speaker-alter-ego-quiz/
Thank you so much for listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lauri (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Soulful Speaking podcast.
My guest today is Amy Vogel.
She's an author and a woman'sbook coach, dedicated to
empowering women to share theirstories, helping them cast a
vision for a better world byturning their publishing dreams
into reality.
Amy, where did your speakingjourney start, amy?
(00:24):
Where did your speaking?
Amy (00:25):
journey start?
Well, I guess technically itstarted.
I was in sales for about adecade and so that's really
where I cut my teeth.
I figured out how to engage anaudience, how to tweak a message
and presentation to the contextof the room, to the interests I
(00:46):
won't say needs, but theinterests of who I was in front
of, and then took a little breakfrom that, was always involved
in church growing up and theninto adulthood, and so I taught
Bible studies, I taught groupsand eventually moved into a role
where I was preaching everyother week and teaching and
(01:10):
leading, and so that salesexperience benefited me in
working for the church.
And then now that cumulativeexperience gives me a real ease
and comfort in front of peoplebecause it's just like this a
conversation, it's a it's, it'sa lot of fun yeah, what was the
(01:33):
transition like when you wentfrom sales into preaching?
you know, um, I've joked beforethat I went from selling
software to selling Jesus.
It's an aspect of that that youwant to convince people of what
(01:56):
you're saying, but you alsowant to make them think and help
them make their own decisions.
But obviously, preachingthere's a sacred text component
to it.
So what you really want toachieve when you're preaching is
a little different thanspeaking, but it's the same
premise in the connection thatyou want to make with the people
(02:16):
that you're speaking to andthat was always my goal in sales
was relational connection,continuing to develop that
relationship, and so I had thatsame focus.
It's actually called relationalpreaching and so you relate the
(02:36):
text that you're preaching on,you relate that in some way to
your audience, to who's in theroom, and then I preached during
COVID too.
So that was a reallyinteresting experience because
you preached to a screen.
Lauri (02:53):
How did you navigate the switch to COVID?
What did you end up findingthat worked for you?
Amy (02:59):
Well, the biggest lesson I learned in preaching overall,
and in sales as well, is thatnobody knows what you're about
to say.
Nobody knows what you'resupposed to say.
Lauri (03:09):
So you have been called now to help women share their
stories and find their voicesthrough publishing.
How did that journey begin foryou?
Amy (03:25):
I had an idea to write a book, and one of the pastors at
the church that I worked well, Iwas actually at this point I
was just a volunteer and so heknew a guy in publishing and the
content that I wanted to writewas not something that we could
really find a book.
That spoke to it.
And, um, uh, you know, it wasone of those things where he was
(03:47):
like, well, we can't find it,so you go write it and then I'll
present it to my friend.
And that's exactly whathappened.
And so I was traditionallypublished for my first book and,
um, uh, the the funny partabout it was I didn't know what
I didn't know, and so that was agreat experience for me.
Um, then, the church that I wasworking for, which was part of a
(04:11):
larger church, a larger churchshut our part of, you know, our
church down, and, um, I wasalready, I was just toast, I was
just done.
And so, um I um took I don'tknow about five months off and
(04:34):
just try to regroup, figure outwhere I was going to want to,
where I was going to go withthings, and I thought you know
what I'm?
I started writing again and, umI I, I'm sorry.
The dogs just all of a suddenwanted to be on top of me.
Lauri (04:49):
They were totally fine it happens a lot when there's a
really juicy energy there.
All of a sudden, all of thepets want to be included in
what's happening.
Amy (04:58):
Right, yeah, so I was looking for a job and I couldn't
really find anything that was.
I was looking for a job and Icouldn't really find anything
that was.
I mean, my, my background is soI had a nearly 10 year gap
between my church job and mysales job because I was at home
with my girls, and so, you know,it was just like I don't, maybe
I should just maybe it's, maybeit's time for me to do my own
(05:20):
thing.
And I told several of myfriends this and they were like
yeah, we've been waiting for youto do thing.
And I told several of myfriends this and they were like
yeah, duh, we've been waitingfor you to do this and I was
like well, somebody could havetold me right what was it that
they were seeing.
It took you a long time to seeJust that I could do this on my
own, that I could be anentrepreneur, that I could write
(05:41):
my own books, publish my ownbooks, speak, and the coaching
happened organically.
I didn't set out my company forthat to be a part of it, but I
think, just being the leaderthat I am and the person who
sees things a little differentlythan other people and I'm so,
you know, in the church, it'sfunny we're supposed to appeal
to everybody.
More than anything, I realizedI worked so hard to be almost
(06:09):
gender neutral in my appeal andyet it was always the women that
I connected with.
And that makes sense.
Being a woman and having theexperience that I did and in my
life, it just it just connects.
Being a wife, being a mom, itjust connects better.
And so I finally let go of theidea that I needed to be the
(06:32):
person for everybody and justfocused purely on helping women.
And that's when things reallystarted to ramp up and take off.
And it's a process too, likewriting my books.
I knew I was writing for me andpeople like me, and so it became
about aligning that message andthat clarity with what I was
(06:55):
already doing.
My friends, they just they sawin me that I had the gifting, I
had the capability where youjust often can't see that
yourself.
You need people speaking intothat.
You need people who can see youmore holistically than you see
yourself.
I don't live up here, so I givethem more freedom to say no,
(07:17):
you'd be, you'd be really goodat this, go do it.
And so I've learned to trustthose nudges and those close
people.
And so I did.
I went for it.
Lauri (07:30):
And now it sounds like you're one of the voices helping
to do that for other women.
Amy (07:36):
Yes, yes.
Lauri (07:37):
What do you love about working for women, now that you
have followed that calling?
Amy (07:48):
that you have followed that calling.
Yeah, it's that connectionpiece where we connect as women
on so many levels.
There's the spiritual, theemotional, the mental.
Often our goals and dreams aresimilar, our limiting beliefs
and fears are similar, and soyou know there's tears of the
way that you can speak into it,but also there's this
willingness that women have topour into each other that makes
(08:09):
us for each other what I foundin general more coachable.
And what sort of emotionaljourney are you noticing in
(08:34):
people as they write books?
Initially start out, you'rethinking about yourself, and
then there's the shift thathappens somewhere around if it's
a nonfiction book somewherearound chapter four, chapter
five, one.
The voice starts comingtogether and then the ability to
speak beyond your ownexperience and really connect
(08:56):
with your ideal reader happensabout a third of the way through
the process and then thingsreally start to pick up.
Lauri (09:03):
What sort of challenges do the writers that you coach
face, even getting started?
Amy (09:13):
Generally speaking, the question is I don't think, I
don't know where to get thecontent from.
There's this idea that you haveto create it out of thin air
when in truth it's all alreadywithin you, it's all already in
(09:34):
there, but we think we have tohave it easily accessible in our
minds, at our fingertips,before we can start.
That's not the creative process.
The creative process is theinitial.
Is there the initial idea?
The initial forward movement isthere.
(09:55):
Then, once you start writing,the rest of it comes together.
There is a clarifying ofmotivation, of message.
That really has to happen asyou write it's not just going to
download, you've got to writeit.
Lauri (10:14):
Yeah, yeah.
It strikes me how similar thatis to when someone is speaking
and the number of times thatI've had people people generally
come to me when they're goingto do a talk and or tell their
story at either end of aspectrum one end they're
(10:38):
actually saying I don't have astory that's interesting.
I don't know what.
I would say it's a.
They think it's a completeblank.
Yeah, and whether it's one onone or in a group session,
they'll talk all about how theydon't have the thing.
And I'll listen and take notesand then go here's the first
draft of all the things you saidwhen you were saying you didn't
(11:01):
have anything Very similar it'sthe talking of.
It is like the mirror image tothe.
You got to sit down and writeit and then the written book
comes out differently than youeven imagined it would.
At the other end of thespectrum are people who are
saying they have too much.
(11:22):
They have too much, they don'tknow where to focus, and while
they're talking about all of thethings that could be in it
there's.
I'll take notes.
Here's your first draft.
These things that you said arenot in this one.
Amy (11:36):
Yeah.
Lauri (11:37):
This was the through line of what you just said, right.
Yeah, this was the through lineof what you just said, right.
What words of advice do youhave for people just finding
their voice, and that might bespeaking finding their voice or
writing, finding their voice orboth.
Amy (11:56):
I think it would be there.
There would be three things.
One you want to and we did thisat the top of before we started
recording we set an intention,not just what you want to say.
(12:17):
What do you want the person,people that you're speaking to,
the people that you're writingto, what do you want them to
experience?
And maintain that intention.
Keep that in mind.
It's about service.
Actually, tomorrow I'm in therecovery community and I'm going
to go share my story for thefirst time, and I'm probably
more nervous about that than Iam about a business talk,
because one I'm talking aboutmyself, but it's service.
(12:37):
I'm there to share myexperience, strength and hope,
and so I'm like, well, I hope Ican do that Right, I hope that
someone is encouraged, um, soI'd say it's about setting that
intention, um, and, and havingan idea, even if that's not the
way that things go.
Having an idea of what you wantthe reader or the listener to
(13:01):
experience and then letting thatorganically develop.
Lauri (13:06):
What do you hope they experience when you speak to the
recovery community?
Amy (13:13):
Yeah, that's really about.
It's about encouragement.
Encouragement to stay sober, tocontinue one day at a time, to
press into the 12 steps, topress into community, to press
into the fellowship, to serviceall the things that we learn
(13:34):
along the way and try to teachnew people.
But really it comes down tothat one day at a time.
It literally, is you got today?
That's all you got?
Yeah, and so my few, one daysat a time, I hope, will show you
that there is experience,strength and hope to be gained
(13:55):
as you press into the recovery.
Lauri (13:58):
Yeah, it feels like what you said at the beginning about
relating.
You know, when you werepreaching, finding a way to
relate it to people in the room.
That's.
That's there in the talk, theservice talk that you're getting
in the recovery communitytomorrow.
Amy (14:19):
Yeah.
Lauri (14:19):
Tomorrow.
Amy (14:20):
Tomorrow yeah.
Lauri (14:25):
Yeah, and part of the point of relating it to them
when you're preaching is so thatit's real, to take it out of
the book and into their lives.
So, it feels like there'sthings have kind of come full
circle in some way, because thatthread of really making it real
for people in the room andbeing of service to the people
(14:47):
in the room has been there thewhole time and is showing up in
both of those environments.
Amy (14:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and really not making it, even
though I'm talking about me, notmaking it about me, even though
I'm talking about me, notmaking it about me.
That is the best advice thatI've gotten, which is yes,
you're talking about yourfavorite subject, which is me
which I would argue is not myfavorite subject, theology is
(15:13):
but making sure that you'rethere for the people rather than
there for yourself.
So I try to carry that throughwherever I'm speaking, and it's
about.
The other thing I would say isintention, being present.
Again, if you're so focused onwhat you're saying and if you're
(15:35):
saying it right, like my,perfectionist tendencies will
definitely rear their ugly heads.
But if you're focused on whatyou're saying and making eye
contact and being present withthe people in the room,
regardless of what you say,that's what people will remember
.
Is your authenticity to be withthem rather than to stand up
(16:00):
there and deliver the bestspeech you you know in the
history of time.
Lauri (16:05):
Yeah, If the inner critics are driving and going
for perfection, it actually willnot be nearly as good, it will
not serve the people in the roomnearly as much as if focus is
on the intention and is onservice and then, like you said,
you're connected and you'relistening to their half of the
(16:28):
conversation.
And it's different than ifyou're sitting down with
one-on-one with someone thatyou're sponsoring or one-on-one
with someone that you'recoaching.
If it's a different environment, the conversation is different.
And yet when we shift to seeingit as a conversation, it really
(16:48):
touches people in a very, verydifferent way and they can feel
seen.
When you're on stage talkingabout you, yep, but you're on
stage talking about you for thesake of them.
Yeah, I did a marketing programwhere they would say you know,
(17:11):
when you're talking aboutyourself, whether it's writing a
marketing post, you are beingof service, you're doing your
teaching, you're living whatyou're here to do and it's like
you're their Yoda.
You're telling the story,thinking that you're Luke
Skywalker, but what you actuallyare is you are their Yoda and
(17:31):
they're putting themselves inyour shoes the whole time,
hearing what you've been throughand thinking maybe it is
possible for me.
Right, maybe it is possible forme.
Amy (17:46):
Yeah, I carry that through.
I carry that through in mybusiness talks too, and I think
people, like you said, theythink of themselves as the main
character, as Luke Skywalker intheir story of themselves, as
the main character, as LukeSkywalker in their story.
But when you're presentingsomething written or spoken,
actually the person you'representing to is the main
(18:07):
character, and so you're justthere as the guide.
You're just there, and so thatleads me to the third thing is
you've got to have some fun.
Do not take yourself soseriously.
Oh my gosh, like there is.
Nothing more difficult for meas a professional speaker is to
like my heart just goes out tosomebody who is just so locked
(18:30):
up and or so, um, so and youfind this so much in the church,
where they're just ragingagainst the machine.
They've got a point and theyare just driving it home.
Just soften it a little bit.
Have some fun.
Just make it something thatpeople will remember.
(18:51):
Whether they specificallyremember everything you said or
not, they will remember you andthey'll remember what they need
to.
Lauri (18:59):
Yeah, yeah, and I don't know about the people you've
seen.
I know that I have been theperson who's so intense and
driving at home when my passionfor something got mixed together
with the inner critic being incharge and a part of me that was
worried that I wasn't enough.
(19:20):
So like you, said, at one point,my attention was on me and I'm
very passionate about this topic, yet the part of me that
doesn't think I'm enough isactually in charge.
So it's that moment of like I'mspeaking and I'm pushing and
I'm driving it home because Ithink it's really important.
Yeah, and Somebody might haveeven said this to me at some
(19:44):
point.
Who are you trying to convinceyou, or them?
Yeah, rather than I do believein this thing.
Amy (19:51):
Yeah.
Lauri (19:52):
And I'm going to set an intention for what I want you to
experience and then lean intothat conversation away.
It can also be really temptingto, when we're doing serious
stuff, serious important thingsthat we are devoted to, to
(20:13):
forget that life is a journeywith a lot of twists and turns,
and to be in the humanexperience while we're doing it.
Amy (20:23):
Absolutely.
And humans make mistakes andhumans forget to.
I cannot tell you how manytimes this has happened to me.
Forget to bring water with themand you get that little tickle
in your throat that you can'tyou think one little will do it,
and then you end up having atotal coughing meltdown, hacking
fit.
It's happened so much I nowremember.
(20:45):
It's happened enough.
I now remember to bring waterwith me.
Lauri (20:48):
But well, you gotta learn some, you know you gotta learn.
Somehow you could have stopped.
It's because of that, insteadof treating it as a learning
experience.
Yeah, oh, next time I willbring water as opposed to oh.
I keep having these coughingfits.
I guess I'm not meant to be aspeaker right?
Amy (21:06):
no, you're talking a lot, your mouth lot, and your mouth
gets dry, your throat gets dry.
It's just, you're human and youknow those.
Those moments that happened tome actually made the audience
engage and lean in a little more.
They were having a connectionalmoment.
Those, those are the thingsthat make you you and those are
the things that make you you andthose are the things that make
(21:28):
people lean in, and that's superimportant you want the lean in
yeah, you want the lean in they.
Lauri (21:36):
They can relate to you when you have a coughing fit,
and I know this is true intheater.
So when I was a young actor,before I really started
directing, we always have thisimpression that someone that
we're auditioning for is againstus.
Right, right, and speakers canhave this feeling that the
(22:01):
audience is against us becausethe nervous system is dealing
with it.
In reality, the opposite istrue.
When you're going into auditionfor a play, every time the door
opens, that director isthinking please, let this be the
one, please let this be the one, please let they're rooting for
you, because there's a way thatthey're rooting for themselves
(22:24):
and rooting for you right inaudiences.
People gave their time to golisten to you, so they are
rooting for you from the momentyou start and in live speaking
and live theater.
Everybody loves the momentswhere something is weird.
Everybody loves the momentswhere something is weird.
(22:48):
I still remember a moment fromwhen I was 19 years old, seeing
a play at my college and beingthere for the day when they did
something in the fight scenewrong.
You know, they did the wrongmoves at the wrong time and the
shield hit someone's mouth andtheir tooth went flying across
the stage.
Yeah, mouth and their toothwent flying across the stage.
(23:10):
And I remember being there whenthe staircase in the musical
Evita, like the curtain and thestaircase latching, moved at the
wrong time and this curtainbehind the staircase ripped in
front of my eye.
It wasn't like, oh, how dareyou.
I want my money back.
Right, it was, I got to bethere that day right and it's
(23:31):
part of what makes it so vibrantand alive.
When people are pre-programmedand doing it perfect, like you
said earlier, we can feel thatthey know exactly what's
happening next absolutely.
Whereas when there's a littleof I don't know what I'm going
to say next exactly, or the dogjust crawled across me, Right it
(23:53):
has a vibrance and an aliveness.
If people are falling in lovewith you and want to know, and
they're driving their cars andthey want to know how they can
connect with you and get to knowyou more outside of podcasts,
what's the best way for them todo that?
Amy (24:12):
Yeah, the two easiest ways are really my website, so it's
pretty simple wwwAmyWVogelcom,and then my social medias,
particularly on Instagram andTikTok.
Instagram is AWVogel it's theone outlier because it was my
personal account for a long,long time and then TikTok is
(24:34):
amywvogelcom and both of those.
You'll get a glimpse not onlyof who I am as a person, but
just really what I do and whatmy books are about you know just
really what I do and what mybooks are about?
Lauri (24:52):
Fantastic, and before we go into our Pivo, pivot, do you
have?
Amy (24:54):
any final words for people listening Be you, just be you.
That is what people signed upto see.
Lauri (25:02):
Beautiful.
Thank you.
All right, Pivo Pivot.
Do your best to blurt answersin one word or a short phrase.
I'll try.
Amy (25:19):
What is your favorite word?
Lauri (25:25):
Mama.
Amy (25:29):
What is your least favorite word?
Oh gosh, so many Prevaricate.
Lauri (25:37):
And what does prevaricate mean?
Amy (25:39):
It means to lie, and I only know that because my mom does
crosswords.
So thanks, mom.
If you're listening, you'reprobably not Thank you what
turns you on creatively,spiritually or emotionally?
Womb work, especially dancing.
(26:04):
So embodiment, womb work whereI'm moving.
Lauri (26:05):
So yeah, dancing Awesome.
What turns you off?
Amy (26:09):
Administrative tasks administration.
Lauri (26:13):
Yeah, what is your favorite curse word?
Oh fuck.
Amy (26:28):
What sound or noise do you love?
Lauri (26:32):
Baby laughs.
What sound or noise do you hate?
Amy (26:37):
This is easy Anything repetitive, anything that just
goes over, including my childrensinging.
Lauri (26:45):
It drives me insane.
Amy (26:54):
What profession, other than the ones you have already tried
, would be fun to try?
Marine biologist.
Lauri (27:00):
That's what I wanted to be when I grew up, when I was
little.
Amy (27:03):
What profession would you not like to do?
Oh, accountant.
Yeah, terrible at math,terrible at spreadsheets.
Lauri (27:14):
What do you hope people say about you on your 100th
birthday?
Amy (27:19):
Oh gosh, that I always saw them and loved them for exactly
who they were.
Lauri (27:30):
Beautiful.
Well, thank you for letting ussee you and love you for exactly
who you are.
It's been a pleasure.
Amy (27:39):
Yes, thank you, it has.
Hello and welcome back to the Soulful Speaking podcast.
My guest today is Amy Vogel.
She's an author and a woman'sbook coach, dedicated to
empowering women to share theirstories, helping them cast a
vision for a better world byturning their publishing dreams
into reality.
Amy, where did your speakingjourney start, amy?
(00:24):
Where did your speaking?
Amy (00:25):
journey start?
Well, I guess technically itstarted.
I was in sales for about adecade and so that's really
where I cut my teeth.
I figured out how to engage anaudience, how to tweak a message
and presentation to the contextof the room, to the interests I
(00:46):
won't say needs, but theinterests of who I was in front
of, and then took a little breakfrom that, was always involved
in church growing up and theninto adulthood, and so I taught
Bible studies, I taught groupsand eventually moved into a role
where I was preaching everyother week and teaching and
(01:10):
leading, and so that salesexperience benefited me in
working for the church.
And then now that cumulativeexperience gives me a real ease
and comfort in front of peoplebecause it's just like this a
conversation, it's a it's, it'sa lot of fun yeah, what was the
(01:33):
transition like when you wentfrom sales into preaching?
you know, um, I've joked beforethat I went from selling
software to selling Jesus.
It's an aspect of that that youwant to convince people of what
(01:56):
you're saying, but you alsowant to make them think and help
them make their own decisions.
But obviously, preachingthere's a sacred text component
to it.
So what you really want toachieve when you're preaching is
a little different thanspeaking, but it's the same
premise in the connection thatyou want to make with the people
(02:16):
that you're speaking to andthat was always my goal in sales
was relational connection,continuing to develop that
relationship, and so I had thatsame focus.
It's actually called relationalpreaching and so you relate the
(02:36):
text that you're preaching on,you relate that in some way to
your audience, to who's in theroom, and then I preached during
COVID too.
So that was a reallyinteresting experience because
you preached to a screen.
Lauri (02:53):
How did you navigate the switch to COVID?
What did you end up findingthat worked for you?
Amy (02:59):
Well, the biggest lesson I learned in preaching overall,
and in sales as well, is thatnobody knows what you're about
to say.
Nobody knows what you'resupposed to say.
Lauri (03:09):
So you have been called now to help women share their
stories and find their voicesthrough publishing.
How did that journey begin foryou?
Amy (03:25):
I had an idea to write a book, and one of the pastors at
the church that I worked well, Iwas actually at this point I
was just a volunteer and so heknew a guy in publishing and the
content that I wanted to writewas not something that we could
really find a book.
That spoke to it.
And, um, uh, you know, it wasone of those things where he was
(03:47):
like, well, we can't find it,so you go write it and then I'll
present it to my friend.
And that's exactly whathappened.
And so I was traditionallypublished for my first book and,
um, uh, the the funny partabout it was I didn't know what
I didn't know, and so that was agreat experience for me.
Um, then, the church that I wasworking for, which was part of a
(04:11):
larger church, a larger churchshut our part of, you know, our
church down, and, um, I wasalready, I was just toast, I was
just done.
And so, um I um took I don'tknow about five months off and
(04:34):
just try to regroup, figure outwhere I was going to want to,
where I was going to go withthings, and I thought you know
what I'm?
I started writing again and, umI I, I'm sorry.
The dogs just all of a suddenwanted to be on top of me.
Lauri (04:49):
They were totally fine it happens a lot when there's a
really juicy energy there.
All of a sudden, all of thepets want to be included in
what's happening.
Amy (04:58):
Right, yeah, so I was looking for a job and I couldn't
really find anything that was.
I was looking for a job and Icouldn't really find anything
that was.
I mean, my, my background is soI had a nearly 10 year gap
between my church job and mysales job because I was at home
with my girls, and so, you know,it was just like I don't, maybe
I should just maybe it's, maybeit's time for me to do my own
(05:20):
thing.
And I told several of myfriends this and they were like
yeah, we've been waiting for youto do thing.
And I told several of myfriends this and they were like
yeah, duh, we've been waitingfor you to do this and I was
like well, somebody could havetold me right what was it that
they were seeing.
It took you a long time to seeJust that I could do this on my
own, that I could be anentrepreneur, that I could write
(05:41):
my own books, publish my ownbooks, speak, and the coaching
happened organically.
I didn't set out my company forthat to be a part of it, but I
think, just being the leaderthat I am and the person who
sees things a little differentlythan other people and I'm so,
you know, in the church, it'sfunny we're supposed to appeal
to everybody.
More than anything, I realizedI worked so hard to be almost
(06:09):
gender neutral in my appeal andyet it was always the women that
I connected with.
And that makes sense.
Being a woman and having theexperience that I did and in my
life, it just it just connects.
Being a wife, being a mom, itjust connects better.
And so I finally let go of theidea that I needed to be the
(06:32):
person for everybody and justfocused purely on helping women.
And that's when things reallystarted to ramp up and take off.
And it's a process too, likewriting my books.
I knew I was writing for me andpeople like me, and so it became
about aligning that message andthat clarity with what I was
(06:55):
already doing.
My friends, they just they sawin me that I had the gifting, I
had the capability where youjust often can't see that
yourself.
You need people speaking intothat.
You need people who can see youmore holistically than you see
yourself.
I don't live up here, so I givethem more freedom to say no,
(07:17):
you'd be, you'd be really goodat this, go do it.
And so I've learned to trustthose nudges and those close
people.
And so I did.
I went for it.
Lauri (07:30):
And now it sounds like you're one of the voices helping
to do that for other women.
Amy (07:36):
Yes, yes.
Lauri (07:37):
What do you love about working for women, now that you
have followed that calling?
Amy (07:48):
that you have followed that calling.
Yeah, it's that connectionpiece where we connect as women
on so many levels.
There's the spiritual, theemotional, the mental.
Often our goals and dreams aresimilar, our limiting beliefs
and fears are similar, and soyou know there's tears of the
way that you can speak into it,but also there's this
willingness that women have topour into each other that makes
(08:09):
us for each other what I foundin general more coachable.
And what sort of emotionaljourney are you noticing in
(08:34):
people as they write books?
Initially start out, you'rethinking about yourself, and
then there's the shift thathappens somewhere around if it's
a nonfiction book somewherearound chapter four, chapter
five, one.
The voice starts comingtogether and then the ability to
speak beyond your ownexperience and really connect
(08:56):
with your ideal reader happensabout a third of the way through
the process and then thingsreally start to pick up.
Lauri (09:03):
What sort of challenges do the writers that you coach
face, even getting started?
Amy (09:13):
Generally speaking, the question is I don't think, I
don't know where to get thecontent from.
There's this idea that you haveto create it out of thin air
when in truth it's all alreadywithin you, it's all already in
(09:34):
there, but we think we have tohave it easily accessible in our
minds, at our fingertips,before we can start.
That's not the creative process.
The creative process is theinitial.
Is there the initial idea?
The initial forward movement isthere.
(09:55):
Then, once you start writing,the rest of it comes together.
There is a clarifying ofmotivation, of message.
That really has to happen asyou write it's not just going to
download, you've got to writeit.
Lauri (10:14):
Yeah, yeah.
It strikes me how similar thatis to when someone is speaking
and the number of times thatI've had people people generally
come to me when they're goingto do a talk and or tell their
story at either end of aspectrum one end they're
(10:38):
actually saying I don't have astory that's interesting.
I don't know what.
I would say it's a.
They think it's a completeblank.
Yeah, and whether it's one onone or in a group session,
they'll talk all about how theydon't have the thing.
And I'll listen and take notesand then go here's the first
draft of all the things you saidwhen you were saying you didn't
(11:01):
have anything Very similar it'sthe talking of.
It is like the mirror image tothe.
You got to sit down and writeit and then the written book
comes out differently than youeven imagined it would.
At the other end of thespectrum are people who are
saying they have too much.
(11:22):
They have too much, they don'tknow where to focus, and while
they're talking about all of thethings that could be in it
there's.
I'll take notes.
Here's your first draft.
These things that you said arenot in this one.
Amy (11:36):
Yeah.
Lauri (11:37):
This was the through line of what you just said, right.
Yeah, this was the through lineof what you just said, right.
What words of advice do youhave for people just finding
their voice, and that might bespeaking finding their voice or
writing, finding their voice orboth.
Amy (11:56):
I think it would be there.
There would be three things.
One you want to and we did thisat the top of before we started
recording we set an intention,not just what you want to say.
(12:17):
What do you want the person,people that you're speaking to,
the people that you're writingto, what do you want them to
experience?
And maintain that intention.
Keep that in mind.
It's about service.
Actually, tomorrow I'm in therecovery community and I'm going
to go share my story for thefirst time, and I'm probably
more nervous about that than Iam about a business talk,
because one I'm talking aboutmyself, but it's service.
(12:37):
I'm there to share myexperience, strength and hope,
and so I'm like, well, I hope Ican do that Right, I hope that
someone is encouraged, um, soI'd say it's about setting that
intention, um, and, and havingan idea, even if that's not the
way that things go.
Having an idea of what you wantthe reader or the listener to
(13:01):
experience and then letting thatorganically develop.
Lauri (13:06):
What do you hope they experience when you speak to the
recovery community?
Amy (13:13):
Yeah, that's really about.
It's about encouragement.
Encouragement to stay sober, tocontinue one day at a time, to
press into the 12 steps, topress into community, to press
into the fellowship, to serviceall the things that we learn
(13:34):
along the way and try to teachnew people.
But really it comes down tothat one day at a time.
It literally, is you got today?
That's all you got?
Yeah, and so my few, one daysat a time, I hope, will show you
that there is experience,strength and hope to be gained
(13:55):
as you press into the recovery.
Lauri (13:58):
Yeah, it feels like what you said at the beginning about
relating.
You know, when you werepreaching, finding a way to
relate it to people in the room.
That's.
That's there in the talk, theservice talk that you're getting
in the recovery communitytomorrow.
Amy (14:19):
Yeah.
Lauri (14:19):
Tomorrow.
Amy (14:20):
Tomorrow yeah.
Lauri (14:25):
Yeah, and part of the point of relating it to them
when you're preaching is so thatit's real, to take it out of
the book and into their lives.
So, it feels like there'sthings have kind of come full
circle in some way, because thatthread of really making it real
for people in the room andbeing of service to the people
(14:47):
in the room has been there thewhole time and is showing up in
both of those environments.
Amy (14:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and really not making it, even
though I'm talking about me, notmaking it about me, even though
I'm talking about me, notmaking it about me.
That is the best advice thatI've gotten, which is yes,
you're talking about yourfavorite subject, which is me
which I would argue is not myfavorite subject, theology is
(15:13):
but making sure that you'rethere for the people rather than
there for yourself.
So I try to carry that throughwherever I'm speaking, and it's
about.
The other thing I would say isintention, being present.
Again, if you're so focused onwhat you're saying and if you're
(15:35):
saying it right, like my,perfectionist tendencies will
definitely rear their ugly heads.
But if you're focused on whatyou're saying and making eye
contact and being present withthe people in the room,
regardless of what you say,that's what people will remember
.
Is your authenticity to be withthem rather than to stand up
(16:00):
there and deliver the bestspeech you you know in the
history of time.
Lauri (16:05):
Yeah, If the inner critics are driving and going
for perfection, it actually willnot be nearly as good, it will
not serve the people in the roomnearly as much as if focus is
on the intention and is onservice and then, like you said,
you're connected and you'relistening to their half of the
(16:28):
conversation.
And it's different than ifyou're sitting down with
one-on-one with someone thatyou're sponsoring or one-on-one
with someone that you'recoaching.
If it's a different environment, the conversation is different.
And yet when we shift to seeingit as a conversation, it really
(16:48):
touches people in a very, verydifferent way and they can feel
seen.
When you're on stage talkingabout you, yep, but you're on
stage talking about you for thesake of them.
Yeah, I did a marketing programwhere they would say you know,
(17:11):
when you're talking aboutyourself, whether it's writing a
marketing post, you are beingof service, you're doing your
teaching, you're living whatyou're here to do and it's like
you're their Yoda.
You're telling the story,thinking that you're Luke
Skywalker, but what you actuallyare is you are their Yoda and
(17:31):
they're putting themselves inyour shoes the whole time,
hearing what you've been throughand thinking maybe it is
possible for me.
Right, maybe it is possible forme.
Amy (17:46):
Yeah, I carry that through.
I carry that through in mybusiness talks too, and I think
people, like you said, theythink of themselves as the main
character, as Luke Skywalker intheir story of themselves, as
the main character, as LukeSkywalker in their story.
But when you're presentingsomething written or spoken,
actually the person you'representing to is the main
(18:07):
character, and so you're justthere as the guide.
You're just there, and so thatleads me to the third thing is
you've got to have some fun.
Do not take yourself soseriously.
Oh my gosh, like there is.
Nothing more difficult for meas a professional speaker is to
like my heart just goes out tosomebody who is just so locked
(18:30):
up and or so, um, so and youfind this so much in the church,
where they're just ragingagainst the machine.
They've got a point and theyare just driving it home.
Just soften it a little bit.
Have some fun.
Just make it something thatpeople will remember.
(18:51):
Whether they specificallyremember everything you said or
not, they will remember you andthey'll remember what they need
to.
Lauri (18:59):
Yeah, yeah, and I don't know about the people you've
seen.
I know that I have been theperson who's so intense and
driving at home when my passionfor something got mixed together
with the inner critic being incharge and a part of me that was
worried that I wasn't enough.
(19:20):
So like you, said, at one point,my attention was on me and I'm
very passionate about this topic, yet the part of me that
doesn't think I'm enough isactually in charge.
So it's that moment of like I'mspeaking and I'm pushing and
I'm driving it home because Ithink it's really important.
Yeah, and Somebody might haveeven said this to me at some
(19:44):
point.
Who are you trying to convinceyou, or them?
Yeah, rather than I do believein this thing.
Amy (19:51):
Yeah.
Lauri (19:52):
And I'm going to set an intention for what I want you to
experience and then lean intothat conversation away.
It can also be really temptingto, when we're doing serious
stuff, serious important thingsthat we are devoted to, to
(20:13):
forget that life is a journeywith a lot of twists and turns,
and to be in the humanexperience while we're doing it.
Amy (20:23):
Absolutely.
And humans make mistakes andhumans forget to.
I cannot tell you how manytimes this has happened to me.
Forget to bring water with themand you get that little tickle
in your throat that you can'tyou think one little will do it,
and then you end up having atotal coughing meltdown, hacking
fit.
It's happened so much I nowremember.
(20:45):
It's happened enough.
I now remember to bring waterwith me.
Lauri (20:48):
But well, you gotta learn some, you know you gotta learn.
Somehow you could have stopped.
It's because of that, insteadof treating it as a learning
experience.
Yeah, oh, next time I willbring water as opposed to oh.
I keep having these coughingfits.
I guess I'm not meant to be aspeaker right?
Amy (21:06):
no, you're talking a lot, your mouth lot, and your mouth
gets dry, your throat gets dry.
It's just, you're human and youknow those.
Those moments that happened tome actually made the audience
engage and lean in a little more.
They were having a connectionalmoment.
Those, those are the thingsthat make you you and those are
the things that make you you andthose are the things that make
(21:28):
people lean in, and that's superimportant you want the lean in
yeah, you want the lean in they.
Lauri (21:36):
They can relate to you when you have a coughing fit,
and I know this is true intheater.
So when I was a young actor,before I really started
directing, we always have thisimpression that someone that
we're auditioning for is againstus.
Right, right, and speakers canhave this feeling that the
(22:01):
audience is against us becausethe nervous system is dealing
with it.
In reality, the opposite istrue.
When you're going into auditionfor a play, every time the door
opens, that director isthinking please, let this be the
one, please let this be the one, please let they're rooting for
you, because there's a way thatthey're rooting for themselves
(22:24):
and rooting for you right inaudiences.
People gave their time to golisten to you, so they are
rooting for you from the momentyou start and in live speaking
and live theater.
Everybody loves the momentswhere something is weird.
Everybody loves the momentswhere something is weird.
(22:48):
I still remember a moment fromwhen I was 19 years old, seeing
a play at my college and beingthere for the day when they did
something in the fight scenewrong.
You know, they did the wrongmoves at the wrong time and the
shield hit someone's mouth andtheir tooth went flying across
the stage.
Yeah, mouth and their toothwent flying across the stage.
(23:10):
And I remember being there whenthe staircase in the musical
Evita, like the curtain and thestaircase latching, moved at the
wrong time and this curtainbehind the staircase ripped in
front of my eye.
It wasn't like, oh, how dareyou.
I want my money back.
Right, it was, I got to bethere that day right and it's
(23:31):
part of what makes it so vibrantand alive.
When people are pre-programmedand doing it perfect, like you
said earlier, we can feel thatthey know exactly what's
happening next absolutely.
Whereas when there's a littleof I don't know what I'm going
to say next exactly, or the dogjust crawled across me, Right it
(23:53):
has a vibrance and an aliveness.
If people are falling in lovewith you and want to know, and
they're driving their cars andthey want to know how they can
connect with you and get to knowyou more outside of podcasts,
what's the best way for them todo that?
Amy (24:12):
Yeah, the two easiest ways are really my website, so it's
pretty simple wwwAmyWVogelcom,and then my social medias,
particularly on Instagram andTikTok.
Instagram is AWVogel it's theone outlier because it was my
personal account for a long,long time and then TikTok is
(24:34):
amywvogelcom and both of those.
You'll get a glimpse not onlyof who I am as a person, but
just really what I do and whatmy books are about you know just
really what I do and what mybooks are about?
Lauri (24:52):
Fantastic, and before we go into our Pivo, pivot, do you
have?
Amy (24:54):
any final words for people listening Be you, just be you.
That is what people signed upto see.
Lauri (25:02):
Beautiful.
Thank you.
All right, Pivo Pivot.
Do your best to blurt answersin one word or a short phrase.
I'll try.
Amy (25:19):
What is your favorite word?
Lauri (25:25):
Mama.
Amy (25:29):
What is your least favorite word?
Oh gosh, so many Prevaricate.
Lauri (25:37):
And what does prevaricate mean?
Amy (25:39):
It means to lie, and I only know that because my mom does
crosswords.
So thanks, mom.
If you're listening, you'reprobably not Thank you what
turns you on creatively,spiritually or emotionally?
Womb work, especially dancing.
(26:04):
So embodiment, womb work whereI'm moving.
Lauri (26:05):
So yeah, dancing Awesome.
What turns you off?
Amy (26:09):
Administrative tasks administration.
Lauri (26:13):
Yeah, what is your favorite curse word?
Oh fuck.
Amy (26:28):
What sound or noise do you love?
Lauri (26:32):
Baby laughs.
What sound or noise do you hate?
Amy (26:37):
This is easy Anything repetitive, anything that just
goes over, including my childrensinging.
Lauri (26:45):
It drives me insane.
Amy (26:54):
What profession, other than the ones you have already tried
, would be fun to try?
Marine biologist.
Lauri (27:00):
That's what I wanted to be when I grew up, when I was
little.
Amy (27:03):
What profession would you not like to do?
Oh, accountant.
Yeah, terrible at math,terrible at spreadsheets.
Lauri (27:14):
What do you hope people say about you on your 100th
birthday?
Amy (27:19):
Oh gosh, that I always saw them and loved them for exactly
who they were.
Lauri (27:30):
Beautiful.
Well, thank you for letting ussee you and love you for exactly
who you are.
It's been a pleasure.
Amy (27:39):
Yes, thank you, it has.
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