SPODA: Dr. Tanushree Verma, Ecopsychologist, Mixed Media Artist, Nature Lover

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Oh, okay.
Hello.
It has a countdown now.
Oh, this is a good way toaddress this.
Oh, yes.
Okay.
Yes.
Uh, welcome to Spoa.
Oh, yes.
Okay.
Yes.
Uh, welcome to SpiritualPractices of the Disgruntled
Artist.
Where we interview a new artisteach episode to learn how they
are keeping themselves sane andspiritually healthy during this

(00:32):
epically challenging time to bean artist.
Yes.
And then we ask each guest, uh,what practices that they're
currently using and we try toimplement those for the next two
weeks Yeah.
And then, and then we start eachepisode by talking about what we
did and how it worked.
Yeah.
A little review and what feltabout it.
Yeah.
Also, we wanna say that we havereally nice mics now.

(00:54):
But these episodes are notrecorded in real time.
Right.
So today, for, for your records,it's July 5th.
Yeah.
But the episode you're gonnahear was recorded maybe three
months ago.
Right, right.
On a not great mic system.
Right.
So, but eventually the, therecordings will line up and all
of it will sound similar.

(01:15):
Yeah.
You've got about two more Ithink.
Wow.
Really?
Yeah.
Wow.
Sorry.
Sorry about it.
Um, what was, hi.
Hi.
Hello.
Hi.
Um, uh, so our practice fromlast week, we had Doug Harvey on
mm-hmm.
Love Doug Harvey.
Ugh.
So good.
So good.
And he had volunteer work.
Right.

(01:35):
And I feel like you were thequeen.
Of this practice.
Really?
Really?
Yes.
Because my impulse was okay, Iused to volunteer at the Braille
Institute, and then I alsovolunteered at this homeless
shelter.
But you had to like sign up andlike, then you do like a six
hour shift.
And of course, and it, it makessense with who we are, right?
Like I was like, okay, well wegotta sign up.

(01:57):
We might have to do a training,you know?
I'm like, okay, well we're justgonna do it.
And you were like, what if.
We do something that people canjust do and you don't actually
have to go to a place to do it.
You can put volunteer work intoyour life, which I thought was
very smart.
Right.
I think that came outtanecessity mostly though.
'cause I feel like those weeksin particular, we were really
busy.

(02:17):
Yeah.
And I was like, oh, it's justgonna be just harder timing wise
to Right.
Go and do something.
Um, so I think that was mybrain's way of like, well, how
can I.
Still do this.
Yeah.
In small ways.
In tangible ways.
Yes.
In ways that I can continue on.
Yeah.
Because I do really wanna signup.
I really wanna do these.

(02:37):
Yeah.
I, I would, I'm not, I guessbigger is not the right word,
but like more official formsYeah.
Of volunteering.
I think I, you know, we shouldreally still do.
Yeah.
Um, but it's not attainable, butit's not attainable.
We found great ways.
Great ways.
Yes.
So we, we made homeless kits.
Mm-hmm.
We made 60 of them.

(02:57):
Yeah.
They had care packages, avitamin C packet, two pairs of
socks.
And it was a variety of liketoothpaste, sands, and Oh, yes.
And then like a little hygienekit.
Washing and hygiene.
Like toothpaste.
Yeah.
Toothbrush, soap, shampoo.
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so that was, that was it.
And then we put them in, inbrown paper bags.

(03:17):
Have you been handing them out?
I have not yet.
Okay.
Have you Philip Will.
Philip has works at the Geffen,so there's a lot people room.
Okay.
So he's been giving them out,like on his way in, and then
that's nice.
After we saw a show, he had onein his bag and we put it next to
a person who was sleeping on theside of the road.
But you know what I thought.
We should have put them inplastic packs because it just
looks scary.

(03:38):
Oh.
It's like a brown paper bag.
And like I, I was like, unlessyou give it to them, wake up and
be like, but anyway, that's for,we could have write care package
or something on it.
No.
Yeah.
We were walking with a group ofpeople and I told'em about it
and the podcasts and stuff andthey were like, we should do
that.
That's such an easy way to giveback.
And I was like, yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
So I did that.

(03:58):
It feels good too'cause I dohate when you don't legitimately
have any money.
Yeah.
Or you're just sitting thereand.
I know you wanna help, andyou're like, uh, yeah, yeah.
I also started picking up fivepieces of trash.
Anytime I'm at a park.
With the kids.
'cause I realized if I don'tpick up any trash, I am annoyed
at people for literally, yeah.

(04:19):
The planet.
Yeah.
But if I, but if I pick up a lotof trash, I too am annoyed that
I'm now spending my time in thepark with my kids picking up
after other people.
Do they, so do the kids pick'emup too, or?
I think they would, but I justlike, sometimes it's glass and I
just don't.
But, so five has been a goodnumber for me.
I do my five.
Mm-hmm.
And then I, and that I willcontinue doing.

(04:40):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
The only other thing that I canthink of that I also try to
implement is just being helpfulto my community in general.
Yeah.
Even if it was like, I feel likeI do this already, but there is
something about consciouslybeing like, I'm gonna make sure
I hold this door for someone, orI'm going to, you know, just
small little things of like, I'mgonna try to help in any small

(05:01):
way, even if they don't noticeit or whatever.
Yep.
You know?
Um, that's also something I tryto do a lot.
I love that.
Will you continue?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I actually really like the fivepieces of trash because I'd go
on a lot of walks.
Yeah.
And I feel like.
Even if you just, like, I had aplastic bag in my pocket.
Mm-hmm.
And I can use, use it almostlike a doggy bag or even doggy

(05:22):
bags, you know?
Yeah.
You just inside out if you don'twanna touch the trash or
whatever.
Yeah.
You know, and then just likecollect it on your, on your way.
I love that.
Yeah.
It's our, it's our world.
It's our world.
It's our world.
That's, I drove me.
So I remember being at astoplight and I saw this guy
throwing clamshells out thewindow.
Clamshells what?
Eating clams and throwing clams.

(05:44):
I mean, uh, okay, so wait,Olivia.
Okay.
Your show.
Tonight is the closing night.
Yeah, because you got extended,we got extended nominated for
the best show at the ZappTheater.
Woo.
The best show.
Okay.
We didn't win, but, uh Okay, butyou're not, but it's about, no,
it's an, it was an honor to be,uh, um.

(06:07):
Nominated.
No, it was great.
It was, it felt, it felt nice.
Yeah.
Obviously.
Yeah.
Are you feeling, do you wannatalk about feeling about the
end?
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
How are you feeling?
I'm feeling great actually.
Okay.
Alright.
Yeah.
I'm actually glad you broughtthis up because I remember the
other day when I texted you andI was like, something great's
gonna happened today.
Yes, yes.

(06:27):
Uh, nothing.
A flower told you?
A flower told me.
I literally turned the cornerand I'm forgetting.
It's like the kind I, I, Ishould have learned the name of
the flowers.
They're everywhere.
They're like, usually they're abunch of like little flowers in
one and they're like orange andyellow.
They're in big bushes.
They're popular in the desert.
Uh, I'll, they could find itlater.

(06:47):
Okay.
But, um, I turned the corner.
And I just like looked, andmaybe it was the sun shining in
in a certain way, but it justwas like glowing.
And I just had that overrulingfeeling of like, today's gonna
be good.
Hey.
You know what I mean?
It was just like one of those,like, I feel good about it and
nothing really happened.

(07:09):
It was a good day, you know?
There wasn't like something,worth noting, but it overall, I,
I kind of was like feeling that.
Dread of the end of the show.
Yep.
Disappear.
Oh, and I was almost a reminderof like, it's gonna be good.
Yes, it's gonna be fine.

(07:30):
Because I still was dealing withit a little bit, only because I
don't have anything lined up atthe moment.
Mm-hmm.
So it was like, how am I gonnafeel?
And then I was like, you knowwhat, that's not right to think
of thinking that, that, yeah.
You know.
Mindset.
And, uh, so far it's been goodand I'm really excited and I,
and I feel like, this extraperformance is just another

(07:51):
extra opportunity.
Mm-hmm.
And it's gonna feel really good.
And yeah, I'm, I'm feeling goodabout it.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah, I'm, I'm really happy.
You feel good about it?
Yeah.
It's also, impressive that it'slike.
At this point, you've had othershows and you've felt the dread
and it feels like you'rechoosing to feel something
different about Yeah.
It does feel a little bit like achoice.

(08:12):
Yeah.
And it can feel, I feel like asan actor, it can feel like
things happen to you a lot andthat you don't have control over
the things that happen to you.
Right.
But I feel like we should findmoments to, to claim it and say,
what I can control is, I'm justgonna try my best not to feel
right.
Disappointed about the showending.
I'm gonna replace that withfeeling joy that I had this

(08:34):
experience.
Yeah.
And excitement for what's goingnext.
Yeah.
I mean, I feel it feels goodnow, so I'm really curious to
see like a couple months afterthe show that's Ask me then.
Okay.
Because I feel like that can,that could be the ultimate like
test.
Yeah.
Not, not that I'm testingmyself, but like that can be,
you know, more reflective of.

(08:57):
How these practices, and I, andI do give credit to all these
things that we've been trying.
Yep.
And dis stay that mindset, liketrying to maintain a healthy,
spiritual balance Yep.
And mindset.
So Yeah.
And also just not feeling asalone in it.
Yes.
Because there's so many peoplewho are having the same thoughts

(09:17):
and struggling.
Yeah.
I, I feel it ha has helped me ina lot of ways, but recently I
had an audition girls.
That's a big one.
It was a big one and it came in.
It was for a guest star on ashow shall remain nameless, and
it came in and I, and I had thesame thought you had, which is

(09:38):
normally when a big auditioncomes in.
Especially now, like I haven'thad a big audition for a TV show
since the new year.
And normally I get this thesides and immediately I'm like
sweating.
I'm nervous.
I'm so nervous that I am unableto start memorizing right away
'cause I have to calm myselfdown.
It takes me a couple hours toeven calm myself down enough to
memorize.
And it came in and I thoughtabout what Kiara said, which is

(10:00):
an episode which I'll hear in a,I don't know, a couple months,
but her practice.
Was little spoiler, spoiler.
Sorry.
Was to find God in all themoments.
So when it came in, I said,okay, I'm gonna find God in even
this moment.
I'm gonna feel excited tomemorize this.
And instead of feeling nervousand, and I was excited to

(10:21):
memorize it.
And it was a lot of words, a lotof dialogue, heavy dialogue, a
lot of, you know.
Like almost jargon kind of stufftoo.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And some emotional stuff andwhatever.
And immediately I was like,okay, great.
Like I'm excited for thisopportunity.
And then me and Philip went toBig Bear and it was a virtual
audition and I also felt growth.
'cause I was like, we're notgonna not go to Big Bear.

(10:44):
I'm gonna bring the ring lightand I'm gonna set my computer up
and have wifi.
'cause a couple years ago Iwould've been like, okay, then
we have to come home early.
So I have Right.
And that is a problem becausethen I puts so much pressure on
this audition that already haspressure on Yeah.
And what I'm trying to do iserase the pressure from it.
Yeah.
And so I was like, we're gonnado it there and it's gonna be
great.

(11:04):
And then on the way there, therewere just so many signs that
were typically, no, you'retelling me so many signs that
had a whole, my whole characterin this, these scenes, it was
about this one other characterand.
We were driving to Bay Bear andthe name, it was that
character's name's Road and I, Imean, I don't want to, you know,

(11:25):
um, say it was like, say it, itwas like, it's also not a
common, it wasn't a commoncommon name.
It not a common, you know, itwasn't like, it was not like
Miller.
Yeah.
That's so weird.
I was about to say Miller.
Really?
Yes.
Oh my God.
It was like, if the name waslike.
Licken or something like that'show, that's how, uh, random of a
name it was.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
And all my scenes are with thisguy and and we're driving and

(11:47):
it's like, Licken Road.
I was like, what?
So that was amazing.
So anyway.
Had the audition and I just waslike praying.
I went to my, my beach, youknow, my beach.
Yeah.
And I just, I, I asked my spiritguides to just be at my back and
I just said like, please takethe nerves from me.
Because also all this stuff hasbeen coming up.
Like, I remember when I saw yourshow, there was one actor in it

(12:09):
who I felt her nervousness fromthe top.
Oh, okay.
And, and it went away.
And she was great.
Yeah.
But I felt her nervousness andI, and I was thinking since I'm
going into my own show process,like.
I need to eliminate nerves.
Nerves are not helping meperform to the best of my
ability.
Yeah.
Uh, my ability is, my abilityand nerves are not going to, if

(12:30):
there's any way for me to removethe nerves, I need to try at
least mold the nerves intoenergy.
Yes.
That is gonna fuel just thecreative process and not
distract you.
Like I think there's, that'syeah.
Yeah.
That's a good point.
Like what is nervousness?
If it's not nervousness.
Us because to me, when I waswatching her show, that girl
that I'm talking about, it waslike she almost felt like she

(12:51):
shouldn't, she didn't deserve tobe there or something.
Interesting.
Then she settled into it.
Okay.
Okay.
Interesting.
But I was thinking about how inan audition you're not given all
that time.
Yeah.
You, yeah.
You have to enter being like, Ibelong here.
Yeah.
So many times I, there's beenauditions where.
You go in, you do it.
And then I almost wanna be like,wait, can I do it again, Because
now that now that I've done it,yes.

(13:12):
Like I actually now am morepresent and I wanna do it again
'cause I feel better.
Yeah.
And it's like, how do we skipthat?
Just jump and skip that?
Jump that you don't do that.
You consciously were like, Igonna jump that.
And that was my goal.
That was my goal for the thingwas to not have nervousness, you
know?
Um, so, so it was, it wasvirtual.
It was in a self tape?
It was a virtual, okay.

(13:32):
It was the option like, becausenow they have to.
Provide a certain number of inperson or virtual appointments,
and there's always a temptationfor me to go with the tape
because that nervousness isn'tthere.
But I've been trying toactively, I mean, when I went
in, I don't know, in November,it was another one of these
things and I was like, I'll goin person.
And it was for Disney and yeah.
And I had a really good rapportwith her.

(13:52):
Like I think that is, it'simportant.
But, and there was also apodcast I was listening to where
a guy was saying, just if youcan just eliminate the nerves,
just story, a story about howhis nerves like got him to not
get a role and stuff.
And just I that, I think that'sjust the next level is just,
yeah.
Take the nerves away.
Mm-hmm.
Because really when I went inthere with no nerves, we, she
remembered me.
I auditioned for her like fiveor six years ago for a different

(14:15):
show.
Wow.
She remembered me.
From then, we had a greatrapport.
I was talking to her about likemy character's backstory and
stuff.
She had me do all four scenes.
She gave me two adjustments ontwo of the scenes, and I did
those again.
That's great.
Yeah.
It was great.
And, and I think it startedfrom, she just recognized that
I, I wasn't like blah, blah,blah.
Yeah.
Like that.
That's attractive to people tobe like, Hey, we're doing this

(14:35):
thing together.
So it was really good.
She was very positive.
That's great.
A lot of great feedback.
Really, really.
It was, it was really great.
And then, so then I also wantedto change the way that I
approach it afterwards.
'cause then usually after anaudition.
I either do the thing of, well,it was just an honor, basically.
It's just an honor to benominated.
It's just an honor to be in theroom, which I either am, like

(14:56):
I'm, you know, I, I probablywon't get it.
But you're setting yourexpectations Uhhuh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or I'm just thinking, praying,wishing about it all the time.
Yes.
Hope I get how I get it.
So I just tried to be like, ifit is for the highest good, it
will happen.
And, and also, you know, I knowI made a good impression in that
room.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(15:16):
So That's so great.
Yeah.
That's so great.
Yeah.
So it's great.
It was very like trusting in ineverything.
Yeah.
I think it feels better withlike that.
Yeah, I think so.
I mean there's just, it's likewe can't con there's just so
much we can't control.
I know.
But I think we can controlreally trying to release the
nerves.

(15:36):
Yeah.
Our reactions.
Our reactions.
And I also was thinking.
I can't expect myself to benervous in all these steps
leading up to being in a room,being nervous when I get the
sides, being nervous when I'mmemorizing, and then expect
myself to get into a room and betotally calm.
Yeah.
Your body's already conditionedto that point.
Yeah.
Even just to that material, yourbody has now a sense memory of
when I'm reading this.

(15:58):
Or acting this or memorizingthis, I'm nervous about this.
Yeah.
And then, so then you can't goin a room and be like, I'm free.
Like, I'm fancy free.
You know, just, it's your, yourbody won't respond that way.
So I think it starts from a lotearlier on in the process than
I, than I realized.
It kind of reminds me of likethis idea, and every time, every
now and then I'll try to use it.

(16:19):
It is like.
If I am feeling nervous, sayinglike, you are providing a
solution to their problem.
Mm.
They are seeking this role.
Yes.
Right.
You have the ability to do that.
Right.
And.
It's like that idea of like, Ican do this.
And also I think the other thingthat get just gives me a little.

(16:43):
I almost wanna say a littlepillow of comfort here is that
they are casting so manydifferent parts all the time
that I, I find comfort in goingin and saying, this is my best
version of this character.
Maybe you think I'm too youngfor this.
Maybe you think I'm too old.
Whatever.
Yeah.
But you have, you've given meenough material now where you
can really see a lot of what.
I can do in this world of thisshow.
Mm-hmm.

(17:03):
And it's only possible anotherrole comes along and they just
don't even have me audition andjust say, yeah, they already
know it happened with Dexter.
That's how I, I mean, Iauditioned for a different cop
on Dexter that I didn't get, butthey, they booked me on another
cop.
'cause they were like, okay,yeah, as you can do that, like
it should probably be fine.
That, yeah.
Oh.
So I'm so happy.

(17:24):
I'm so proud of you.
Yes.
Thank you so much.
I'm proud of you.
Yeah, it feels good.
It feel like, yeah.
I don't know.
I think it's helping me justlearn and, and kind of change,
change the process Yeah.
As we go along.
Yeah.
And like you said, I think likea lot of I unexpected, uh,
benefit from this podcast islike this idea that we're not

(17:46):
alone.
Mm-hmm.
Like everyone is, has theirdoubts, their.
Yeah.
And, and the remedies, you know?
Yeah.
And so it's been, it's been sonice to do that.
Yeah.
Yay.
Yay.
I'm excited to see what happensnext.
I know, I know.
What a, what a funny like timecapsule it is.
I was think thinking about iteven with this episode 10 news
episode, which you guys willhear, which is great.
Ugh.
Because I was in such adifferent place then than I am

(18:08):
now, and I think I even say init.
In three months when this ends.
I don't know what I'm sure.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
It's so funny and I feel likechange is all over again.
You're watching our, the wavesof life.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But that's that.
I like that.
I like that we can see that and,and know that it's, it's a

(18:30):
cycle, baby.
Yeah.
But back to the circles.
It is, it's circles.
It's circles and it is, yeah.
The, the, the wave of it all theup and down of it all.
Oh, wait, I was gonna ask youone more thing.
Okay.
One more thing.
Any, any update on the Spiritguides front?
No, you know's.
So funny is I did meditate.
I don't know if I said thisalready, but I did meditate

(18:52):
once, not far after Julia'sepisode.
Mm.
And.
The idea of doing,'cause I know,uh, she recommended doing like a
altar or something like that.
Yeah.
And because I truly just don'tknow.
Right.
Yeah.
I, I like, what do I, I decidedthat may not work for me at this
point.
Right.

(19:12):
Maybe if I feel a certainchannel.
Uh, but I did, I did, um,meditate and I wasn't like spear
guides come to me.
Yeah.
I was more of like, I'm gettingto open that portal.
Yeah.
And then if I get anything,maybe Yeah.

(19:34):
But, uh, again, maybe that wasalready a closed off version to
this idea.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but you know what's so funnyis.
Uh, I almost sent you this, uh,clip'cause I, I watched
Pocahontas and, grandmotherWilla has this thing of like

(19:56):
there's spirits surrounding youand if you listen, they will
guide you, kind of thing.
Ooh, okay.
And that's, that's everywhere.
Yeah.
You know, it's more of naturebased.
Yeah.
And I was like, that.
Maybe, maybe if there are spearguides, it's more Yeah.
'cause I was thinking about thecloud.
It's not as like a pers Yes.
Yeah.
I was like, that makes moresense to me.

(20:17):
It's not like a specific personor, yeah.
So I love that.
Yeah.
Okay.
Keep us updated on your I will,I will.
And maybe I'll, I'll try it moreoften, but, But I also think if
you're not called to it, you'renot called to it.
I think that's it too.
It's like not, it is not that I.
Wouldn't be, it would be greatto have spirit guides.
Right.
But it doesn't, yeah.

(20:38):
Yeah.
It doesn't resonate quite yet orstrong enough for me to like Go
after it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How are your spirit guides?
They're good.
They're good.
There's four.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I definitely liked, I liked theimage of when I was in that
audition.
I put two on each of my of myshoulder blades.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, I think that helps.
I kind of like that when yousaid earlier, like you called on

(21:00):
your spirit guides to back youup or just be there.
I had this visual reputation oflike.
Just people behind you, justlike ready, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just to take the nerves.
That's nice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The show that I love, DallasCowboy Cheerleader.
Are we talking to you about it?
The DCC.
I know you watch Keep on askingabout, I've watched it and I was
like, no, no, no, no.
I get, yeah.

(21:21):
I mean it's, yeah.
Thunder.
Yeah.
There was this one girl and inseason one.
I mean she's very religiousthroughout, like she okay, but
in season one it's likehighlighted a lot her belief in
God and stuff.
And this girl's like, she's anamazing dancer and all the other

(21:41):
girls are really nervousobviously because it experience
give them enough time.
All the reasons she just has nonerves and she is just really.
Like 10 toes down.
If God wants me to do this, Godis gonna make me be a part of
this team.
No doubts at all.
Does she wanna be on thepodcast?
Oh my God.
Find it.

(22:01):
I mean, she's nice.
Super famous now.
I mean, and I really saw, when Isaw her, I was like, wow,
because she doesn't have any ofthe nerves.
She just, her talent is able toshine through because she has so
much belief in something greaterthan herself that it is taken
care of in a full way.
Wow.
I wonder if that's honestlywhere it started for me, of
being like.
How do I get to that point whereI can just, just, just perform

(22:25):
for my heart and, and also haveso much belief that if I have an
audition that does go awry, Itruly think then that's what it
was meant to be.
I think you could get there.
I think you're on your way.
You think so?
I definitely do.
I feel, I mean, listening tothis, I sound like all over the
place, but I, but here's thething, like we don't know if.
She also has moments.

(22:46):
Right.
Like Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, we don't know herwhole journey.
Right.
You know, and I would imaginethat she had to figure that out.
Yeah.
I mean, she's probably young.
She's what, probably earlytwenties.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
I think, I think you'redefinitely on your way.
Thanks.
I hope so.
It's also just practice.
Yes, exactly.
That's what I mean.
Yeah.
So I just wish there were moreauditions to P.

(23:07):
Maybe that's what I, I need tobe putting it in the universe
more.
Yes.
More opportunities to practicethe non, the known nerves thing.
Yeah.
Which means in person or virtualappointments, because that is
not audition for me right now.
I, yeah.
Maybe come up with this side.
No, I think that's great.
I, I mean, yeah, that makessense too.

(23:29):
'cause there's idea of like.
If you even have auditioned orif you haven't had a big,
especially big ones.
Yeah.
You know, you reflecting onlike, oh, am I rusty or am I,
you know?
Yeah.
Just it, just to stay in thepractice of this is, I, I don't
need the nerves, but anyway,that's what I'll call in for
myself for, for a greater thing.
It also is kind of fun that it'ssort of more of a game now
where, like the next bigaudition I have, it's to

(23:50):
practice, Ooh, not havingnerves.
Honestly, I think that alone.
Takes away half the nerves.
Yeah, right, because you're likech, you're like focusing on
something else.
Yeah.
That you can control.
Yeah.
I think you can control it.
I don't know.
I wonder what, what do you guysthink?
Can you control nerves?
Is it just a, something thathappens to you that Well, that's
why I think whenever I'mnervous, I try to try to

(24:13):
shingle, I'm always like, airBending it into, into like
excitement or you are feelingthat energy and going, okay,
instead of it being adistraction or hindering me, I'm
going to use it to know thatthis is my love showing up.
This is my desire coming up.
They're all coming from goodthings.
And so if I can, you know, kindof keep molding it and framing

(24:36):
it and knowing that like thesenerves are going to benefit me
and turn into excitement or turninto.
Just general energy, whereas I'mjust trying to like, eliminate
it basically.
But I think eliminating it isthe same thing.
We're trying to remove anxietyin two different ways, in two
different ways, but I think the,the same concept is there.

(24:58):
And you're doing it also by justchanging it, you're, you're
using meditation, you're usingYeah.
All these things.
Yeah.
I also did, I was reallyintentional about meditating.
I mean, I, I, spent the firstday, every 30 minutes I set an
alarm.
Every 30 minutes I'd go over thelines.
The second day I did an hour.
'cause we're still like onvacation.
Yeah.
If I missed time, like it wasfine.
I wasn't too stringent.
Yeah, yeah.
But the day of the audition, Iwent over it two times and then

(25:19):
before I just did like a 20minute meditation went down to
my beach.
Mm-hmm.
And, and I also visualized how Ilike, kind of wanted to go, not
the choices that I made, but thesort of impression.
Yeah.
And I visualized her giving mefeedback.
And actually during thatmeditation, she gave me a
direction in the meditation thatI actually applied to the scene.
Wow.
And she let, she interesting.

(25:40):
And when I went on, she waslike, I just wanna say one
thing, like this character,'cause the character is lying a
lot.
Yeah.
And she was like, but they're ingrief.
You know?
And that was what my meditationtaught me about that scene.
But it, it was, I was like,yeah, I, I, I almost was like,
am I meditation?
I probably could have, becauseat the end, the last scene was
really emotional and she waslike, okay, we're gonna put our

(26:00):
hands behind our head and we'rejust gonna open our heart.
Shocker.
'cause you fit, you know, a lotof emotions.
I know.
I was like, wait, yes.
She would've told me, oh, shehelped me open my heart.
Shocker.
I'm like, wow.
Oh, I kind of love that.
So you put your hand behind yourback, Uhhuh behind your head.
Yeah.
And it just like opens us Andyou just like are feeling
yourself breathing.
'cause she was saying, that's sofunny.

(26:20):
I'll do that if I'm also nervoustoo.
Really?
I like expose myself.
Yeah.
Oh, oh, I love it.
You know, I like chest out andlike head back because then it's
like, I feel like when we getanxious we tighten, we go in.
So if I notice that I'm tryingto be a, you know.
Not only a receiver, but like a,what's the opposite?

(26:41):
Uh, like, um, giver.
Giver, yeah.
Of, of, you know, I'm like,before performing.
Yeah.
Especially, I'll like kind ofjust Oh, okay.
Do that.
I'm opening myself up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
I wanna meet her.
Oh, she's great.
That sounds, she sounds great.
She's fantastic.
Uh, I'm so proud of you again.
Thank you.
I'm proud of you.

(27:02):
It's good.
I feel like it's.
It's happening.
Yeah.
It's also like it is happening.
We are doing it.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
I think thinking it's going tohappen.
I mean, that's what all thismanifestation stuff says.
You're supposed to say itcurrently.
It's happening.
It's currently happening, but itis actually, currently it's,
yes, that's thing.
It's, uh, it's that good.
So good.

(27:23):
We'll see what happens in where.
I'm, well, I, I will, we'll endit on this before we get to our
guest.
I think when I say like, you'regetting there.
Yeah.
As far as being like, uh, thecowboy cheerleader Oh yeah.
The cowboy cheerleader.
You know, for you to become thecowboy cheerleader.
Yeah.
Um, I think the reason I feelvery strongly that you were on

(27:45):
your way is because like, Imean, think about before where
part started this podcast wherewe were, and yes, we joke that
in two weeks, three weeks, whoknows?
But like.
I think because we, we just knowthat we're humans.
We're gonna feel things.
Yeah.
We're gonna be disappointed andthat's okay.
Yeah.
But we are, we're just gettingstronger.
That's why it feels like.

(28:07):
It this, even, even within thewaves.
Mm-hmm.
It's still going up.
Yes.
Yes.
Like, even though it's two stepsforward and one step back.
Yes.
The step back is getting smallerand the steps forward are
getting bigger.
Exactly.
So even though it's the samepattern.
Yeah, I, I, that's what I meanby that.
I was like, no, I, yeah.
It feels tangible at this pointeven.
Thanks.
So I also think it's beneficialto hear yourself.

(28:28):
Go through it.
Mm-hmm.
I don't, maybe I recommend that.
I don't know how you would, howpeople would do it.
You should all start a podcast.
Come on here.
Yeah.
Come on here.
Or, or, because I'm sure voicememos are just writing.
Yeah.
I think people sometimes forgethow they feel about something.
Yeah.
And so they'll go back and like,oh.
Do you like journaling?
Well, I do my gratitude journal.
You do your, but do you I do.

(28:49):
Go back.
Journal, journal, journal,journal.
Sometimes.
Do you ever do a diary?
That was actually morespecifically my question.
Mm.
I have and I've enjoyed it, butI've only been drawn to that
when I'm very upset.
Kind of like your thing withGod, where you found you were
only praying if something was,you wanted something.
I found that I've onlyjournaled.
If you're like trying to gothrough something.
Yeah.
Or like if I'm upset aboutsomething or something.

(29:09):
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, so it's way one of thosepractices that like, I wish I
could write a di diary more,just more just for this idea of
it's a time capsule.
Go back and be like, whoa.
Like that's how I felt.
That's how I thought and allthese things.
But every time I try to do it,I'm thinking, and I'm talking
classic diary style.
Okay.
Where like on this day I didthis.

(29:30):
Yeah.
Handwritten.
Um, I also like to type it'causeit just flows.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe I type it too.
Yeah.
Well always feel very formal tome when you do journaling?
Yeah.
Or Yeah.
Specifically reflecting on theday.
Dare you dear.
Honestly, dear Olivia, today,this is how you feel.
Have you been in that thingwhere you write a letter to
yourself to open?

(29:52):
Like when you're having a hardtime, the artist way you have.
Yes, I remember that.
I don't think I did it.
I did it.
Did you?
I, but I Did you use the letter?
I did, but I forget what itsaid.
Sorry.
It wasn't that impactful of athing for me.
I think.
I think it just said what we'resaying is there, there were,
there will be ups and there willbe downs, the ups, you know,
like, yeah.

(30:12):
That's the only thing.
Just relax.
Just this would be a picture ofa circle.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That would just be your, yeah.
Future.
Olivia would be like, what thehell?
I just draw a little smiley facein the circle.
Um, alright.
Alright.
Yay.
Okay.
Well, we hope you enjoy thisepisode.
Yes.
And here's our next guest.

(30:45):
Hello and welcome to our nextguest who's very near and dear
to me.
We've been friends for 20 plusyears.
Crazy.
Crazy.
Doctor Verma.
Yay.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me.

(31:05):
Yeah.
She's also a director.
She's a mixed media artist.
Yes.
Yes.
And she has her doctorate inEcos Psychology.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
I wrote in my book, but I can'twait to hear.
Um, yeah.
Thank you so much.
So excited to be here.
Oh my gosh, we're so happy tohave you.
Yeah.
We have began to start theseYep.

(31:27):
Videos.
Okay.
Yep.
With people either pulling acard or doing three breaths
together, or both.
Let's do both.
Okay, great.
Love.
I knew she was Do you have adeck in my, uh, I do.
I have a deck that, Tanuactually gave me.
Oh, really?
Uhhuh, it's, uh, based off ofcrystals or the Gaia one, which

(31:49):
I know you've pulled from beforeor you know, most of my Yeah.
Card.
So there's one that you arelike, wait, where's that one?
I, that one?
No, no.
Let's do the crystals one.
Okay.
I like that.
I like this bag.
It's gorgeous.
It's like a see through bag withthe moon and stars on it.
The artwork is so pretty too.
Oh yeah.
Just wait to see this.
I love that.
I'm gonna put it in a circle foryou.

(32:11):
Um, and you know the drill.
If you have a question in mindor if you just wanted to ask
what you need to hear, can I.
Can I say what I'm thinking?
Yeah.
Yes, please.
So I kind of, actually, I'mjust, I'm focusing on this
conversation and I think itwould be really interesting to
see what the card says before weget into it.

(32:32):
Okay.
I love that.
Love this.
Okay.
Okay.
You live in?
Abundance, Imperial Topaz.
Page 71.
Ooh, Imperial.
What is it?
It's so pretty.
Imperial topaz.
You live in abundance Love.
You live in abundance, ImperialTopaz.
Uh, the mo's hardness scale iseight.

(32:54):
When we are satiated, when wefeel that we have enough full
spirit, full heart, we can relaxand offer abundance to those
around us.
This is Imperial Topaz gift, theability to savor life and take
nourishment from its beauty.
Topaz helps us find sensitivitywithin ourself so we can notice
with all our senses andappreciate with our whole being

(33:16):
the workings of the world.
From this place of abundance, webecome overflowing with energy,
which can be shared as kindnessor courage or wisdom.
With those around us, there iswonder everywhere.
Imperial Topaz whispers.
It's up to you to take it in andassimilate it into your heart.
Um, I love that.

(33:37):
Yeah.
That its exciting, like thatspoke to you.
Oh, yeah.
I feel like for me it's one ofthose things where, you know,
well, I don't know if you bothfeel this way, but sometimes I
feel like you have a lot tooffer, but you don't necessarily
know or give yourself that powerto be like, oh, I can speak to
this.
I have even just livedexperience to be able to share.
Um, and so I feel like that cardwas actually very comforting in

(34:00):
that to say like, no, you, yougot this.
You know?
Yeah.
Yes.
You can share what, you know.
I love that.
It's like the imposter syndrome.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
Just like even, even when westarted this podcast, I feel
like there was a bit of like,yeah, what do we wanna know?
And or even people that, likewe've asked on are like, oh, you
know, I don't, I, I'm afraidthat I don't know what I'm

(34:22):
talking about or anything likethat.
And I know, and I notice thatlike.
We all have something to share.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Totally.
Yeah, I think I said that to youwhen you asked me.
I was like, but I also know thatyou know me, so I was like, if
you want me to come, I will 100%do this.
Mm-hmm.
But, um, I did have a little bitof that, like trepidation to

(34:43):
say, yeah, okay.
You know, can I, yeah, yeah,let's do it.
It's a vulnerable place to be.
I think it's also just avulnerable topic.
Like we talk about that a lot.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
People don't talk about theirspirituality a lot.
It's like, I don't know.
I, I don't even really know why,you know?
Yeah.
Now that we've been doing it,I've been like, everybody has
like, some thoughts on, orbeliefs or practices that they
do.

(35:03):
Yeah.
Even if they don't quantify thisspirituality, right?
Mm-hmm.
Well, it's so funny because Iknow, you know, we've known each
other for so long and I feellike we, we talk about
spirituality in the same sensethat I think we are both very,
very connected to nature, whichis, I don't, something that I
think you've inspired me on,like really knowing nature and.

(35:26):
Um, also maybe one of the mostcreative people I know ever.
Aw.
Um, like whenever I think aboutmemories of us, you know, which
one sticks out the most, whichone is you and, uh, you and me
in your room?
Choreographing.
I, me, mine.
I know, I knew it.

(35:48):
I knew it was gonna be this one.
What, what was it?
What song?
It, the Beatles song I, me Mine,right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yes.
I feel like I really wanna dothis thing.
You remember it?
Oh, honestly, I maybe vague.
We, I re we had a story.
Yeah.
But you know, we did theatertogether, so we did a lot of.

(36:08):
We did a lot of pieces together.
And for bad dance.
Well, it was, it, it was not foranything.
No.
It was like a sleepover.
It was like two in the morning.
We, we were just like, let's doit.
We'll put on a whole show forliterally no one, no one put
ourselves.
Love that.
I am obsessed with that.
Yeah.

(36:28):
And that's why when I, I, I waslike, you'd be perfect on this
because it's creativity and youare so in tune and just, you
have so much so thank you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I would, go ahead.
Oh, I was just saying for ourlisteners, do you wanna explain
what Ecos psychology is?
Oh, yes.

(36:48):
And for me, yeah, for myself.
Of course.
Yes.
Okay.
So, um, it is kind of, I thinklike a relatively new field of
study.
Um, and it is also calledecological psychology.
So that's what, just in case.
Mm-hmm.
That's what the ego is shortfor.
Um, but basically it's this ideathat we are never isolated from

(37:11):
nature and we're, you know,living within it.
We're living with it.
We're living just likesurrounded by it, and that if we
understand it, we can alsounderstand ourselves better and
we can understand our place inthe world better.
And.
I've found that it really kindof, um, ties together a lot of
my interests.

(37:31):
So in college and undergrad Iwas a, um, theater directing
major and also an environmentalstudies major and everyone I
told that to was like, what areyou talking about?
Makes perfect sense to me.
And then, and then I found thisprogram, and it was actually
because I took an ECOSpsychology class at UCSV and the

(37:54):
teacher of that class ended upstarting this school.
Oh wow.
So she was like, I think it'd bea really good candidate for
this.
And it was really kind of thatjoint effort of humanities and
science because it's reallyabout how we live and
communicate within this worldthat is so tied to the natural
world and we are like such apart of it.
Mm-hmm.

(38:14):
That it helps to understandthat, to kind of help us bridge
our own kind of, I don't wannasay like psychological issues or
anything, but it's just kind of.
Where we can find thatdisconnect and how we can move
from there.
So you work with people mm-hmm.
And you work with them aboutnature?

(38:36):
Yes.
Or like kind of understandingtheir place in like, it's a
little, it's kind of likethrough nature.
Okay.
So you like work with someone,but you bring in, um, like
metaphors or relationships thatwe all have and use those to
kind of help shape the story tofigure out what narrative
somebody is maybe repeating orstuck in and like, okay, is

(38:58):
there a something comparable inthe natural world that we can
look to as a guide?
Almost interesting.
So it's almost like, it remindsme a little bit of art therapy,
which I did when I studied inSouth Africa.
We did some, it was, I guess itwas, it was really drama therapy
we did with some kids in SouthAfrica, but it was like taking
the lens of art.
And therapy.

(39:18):
So it's, is it kind of likethat?
Yeah.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
And there is, there are, like,that's the thing which is so
great about it because it's sucha new field.
So it's like, there are, therewere people in my cohort during
school that, um, would usetheater.
I did like a theater piece.
We did dance, we did food.
It's like all of these thingsare part of who we are and make

(39:41):
up our psychology.
Mm-hmm.
And so if we can tackle thesethings that call to us and kind
of let them work through us, wecan learn more about ourselves
and how we relate to the world.
Wow.
It reminds me, it's so cool andit reminds me so much when we
had our friend Kate on and shewas saying that she had this

(40:01):
intrusive thought, that was likegiving her a lot of shame.
And her therapist was like, youshould go and give it to a tree
or to the ocean and be like, canyou take this shame for me?
And she did that and she said itwas so helpful.
And I was like.
Wow.
Yeah.
Like that's so incredible.
'cause you're right, like we arepart of it and it's part of us,
but I think for me, that doesn'tfeel like, it feels very

(40:21):
disconnected for me sometimes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know,'cause that,'cause Igotta be part of the capstone.
Yes.
Uh, so one of the assignments wehad that I still think about
every now and then is we had tochoose something that we don't
know much about.
And then understanding it's likebeginning its end and, and

(40:42):
whatever that meant.
And I chose the clover that wasin the front and I was like, is
does it always bloom?
And all that.
And I just realized too, justeven that small.
Focus made me realize of likehow many other things that I
just take for granted in theworld and what, once I got to
like, connect to it and likeunderstand it, just even that

(41:04):
little clover, you know, I waslike, oh, I know this now.
And, and it just brings thesense of, uh, I don't know,
connectedness.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because you're, you're lookingat something that's kind of
outside of you but is livingwith you.
Yeah.
And you're like, oh, I've nevergiven you this attention to see
like what your life cycle is orlike what your growth patterns

(41:26):
are.
And I feel like it's reallyinteresting'cause then you're,
you can kind of mirror that backon yourself and be like, well,
what are my growth patterns?
What is my cycle like?
That's really interesting.
Is it Capstone?
Was that like a class that youtaught?
Is that, that's like the thesis.
It's like, it was my dissert wasa ending project.
Yeah.
I was a part of a group and wechose a fruit, we chose orange

(41:47):
and we really dissected andlearned about the orange.
It was great.
Wow.
Especially since I have anorange tree.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
That's great.
Has nature always been sort ofpart of your spirituality?
Yeah, so I always attribute thisquality to my grandmother on my
dad's side because I rememberwhen I was a child, she was
always the one who likecollected snail shells and

(42:10):
looked at leaves and she wouldcall me over and her viewpoint
was very, uh, much more Goddriven.
But it was still like, look atthe like, look how different God
made each of these and look atthe differences in this.
And this one is like darker andthis one, you know?
So I think that really kind ofstarted this off for me and it
really propelled me to startlooking at things on a more.

(42:34):
A detailed level mm-hmm.
To just notice and be observantof those things.
So I think that's kind of whereit started for me.
Hmm.
Were you brought up like aparticular religion?
Yeah.
So, um, I was brought up asHindu from both sides, my mom
and my dad.
However, even in theirupbringing, it was a different
type of Hinduism.

(42:54):
So my dad's side was more, uh,jis, which is like a little bit
more, um, I wanna say spiritualin a way where it's not the, my
mom's side was more with likethe tis or like the idols.
Okay.
Where you like pray to theidols.
And my dad's side was not aboutthat.
So, um, they both connected,huh?

(43:15):
Oh, that's, no, I, yeah, yeah.
Friends learning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so I think it was, it'sinteresting'cause like, yeah, my
dad's.
Side kind of was more of theorigin of like Buddhism.
So now if you asked my dad, hewould probably say he leaned
more Buddhist.
But my mom on, then my mom'sside, they just, they understood

(43:37):
each other.
I remember asking about it whenI was a child, and what they
told me really kind of resonatedwhere they were saying, well,
you know, God is so vast, theworld is so vast.
It helps to have an idol orsomething that you can kind of
attribute certaincharacteristics to.
Mm-hmm.
Because we kind of need tocompartmentalize that sometimes

(43:58):
in order to see what we'repraying to, or like really hone
in on what we're asking about.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
I was thinking about thisrecently because I feel like I
was selling Olivia, I feel likeI have spirit guides.
Mm-hmm.
And it took me, and that's kindof a more recent discovery, like
in the past year, but now I'vebeen kind of like.
Like I, I've assigned one ofthem who was like an acting

(44:21):
student of mine who passed awayfrom leukemia when he was a
teenager.
But that is like all my actingtrouble, career trouble.
I give to Zach.
Mm-hmm.
Because in a way I feel we're init together, you know what I
mean?
But it's interesting'cause Ihave had that thought too of
like, who am I praying to?
Like, I, I believe in God, theuniverse and the spirit guides,
and it has helped me to justlike, focus on this, this is for

(44:42):
him.
Mm-hmm.
You know, mm-hmm this is yoursnow you may take this.
Mm-hmm.
I feel like it does help.
Sometimes it's like better torelease energy that way, in a
more focused manner.
Mm-hmm.
So I just really resonated withthat description because it was,
it, I think it pushed meforward.
It kinda expanded the world tome a little bit to, at a very
young age.
I was like, oh, all religion.

(45:04):
Is kind of the same.
Yeah.
It's just assigned differentnames and characteristics, which
makes sense to me in thiscontext.
Mm-hmm.
But it's like we're all lookingfor, or at least to like a broad
extent looking for and kind oflike hoping for the same thing
at the end of the day.
Yeah.
Was it confusing to do, were youasking your parents about why

(45:24):
your mom focuses on idols andyour dad focuses on nature?
Was that confusing to you thatthey kind of practiced in
different ways?
Well, we kind of did everythingtogether.
Okay.
So we just did, we just dideverything.
You seen all of it?
Okay.
Yeah, we did everything.
They were, they were not like,oh, this is better.
This is not kind of a thing.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and my dad's side was, itwas not so nature focused.

(45:45):
It was more, um, just more oflike a cosmic energy.
Uh, my grandfather actuallywrote a book that he got
published before he died, andit's called God Is
Consciousness.
Wow.
So it's like, that's kind of theidea that I grew up with on that
side.
And, um.
So it's more about like thatit's a little bit more
expansive, I guess.

(46:06):
But the, a lot of the prayers, alot of the practices are
similar.
It's still Hinduism.
Have you read the book?
I have started it, but it was sofunny because I was reading it
and I was like, this is allstuff I grew up hearing him say
to me.
Wow.
Wow.
So I felt really lucky aboutthat because I was like, oh,
this is just embedded in me now.
Mm-hmm.

(46:26):
So do you now, do you believe inGod now?
I wouldn't say that.
Okay.
I guess I think I'm, but, but Ido believe in this
consciousness, in this energy,in this force.
I feel like, and maybe this iswhat, I don't know what you guys
are if you're hearing this inyour podcast, but I feel like
God sometimes has a very chargedterm.

(46:49):
It's a very charged term.
It's a very specific image thatpeople have.
And I think for me, that's alittle off putting personally.
Yeah.
Where it's like, I wouldn'twanna say that's what it is,
because I don't know what it is.
I can just feel it.
Mm-hmm.
So, but do you feel that it'slike a higher power or you feel
that it is like the universalconsciousness, which I'm
constantly trying to understandand I almost get, I'm always

(47:11):
like, well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And sometimes when I meditateI'm like, yeah, like tap into
the universal consciousness.
Then I'm like, Oop.
And like there goes like, I'velost my, my reckoning with it.
So I guess it is kind of more ofa universal consciousness to me.
I've always thought of it almostlike a, like an atom that's like
charged, you know, like withparticles and it's kind of all
vibing together and um, has akind of an energy that we all

(47:34):
play a part of and are tappedinto and connect with.
So it's this idea.
So even, so I did, um, themeditation, which is like the 10
day.
Course that you do in silence.
Oh, wow.
And yeah.
This the retreat that you wenton?
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Yeah.
So she went to a silent whoa.
Retreat.
Yes.
Wow.
Wow, wow.
Yeah.
Okay.
10 days silent retreat.
You don't make eye contact withanybody.

(47:56):
It was crazy.
Um, it's free if they make youpay for it, it's a scam.
Okay.
Okay.
Good to know.
Yeah.
Bossa.
BA Vipasana, V-I-P-A-S-S-A-N-A.
Okay.
Wow.
Okay.
Vipasana.
Yeah.
Wow.
Okay.
Wait, sorry.
Tell me how, okay, well, sobasically they do guide you, so

(48:16):
it's not like you're just thrownto the wolves.
Mm-hmm.
They, um, basically they teachyou how to meditate.
You start slowly and then, um,they feed you and everything,
you know, and they give you aplace to stay.
All of that.
But then every evening you're,you watch a video that was
recorded by the teacher and thefounder of this, or I don't

(48:37):
wanna say founder, thespokesperson of this type of
meditation.
Mm-hmm.
And then they do have teachers.
So if you're having a weirdexperience or you're unsure
about something, you canschedule time with them and talk
to them about it.
Okay.
Um, but yeah, you're just therefor 10 days.
And I did mine out in 29 Palms.
So it's kind of in the middle ofthe desert.
Mm-hmm.

(48:58):
You don't have your phone, youdon't get to have books or
notebooks or anything.
Wow.
Because they say that if you'retaking notes and writing, you're
like kind of living in the pastalready.
Mm-hmm.
So it's very much about thatpresent experie as I furiously
write my notebook.
I mean, you know.
Okay.
But so is it a particular typeof meditation that Ana It's, to

(49:19):
me it's like they, they reallysay you can be whatever religion
you want and still practice thistype of meditation.
And there's no chanting, there'sno, it's really just.
Um, being at peace with yourthoughts and trying to get in
touch with your body and seewhat it's telling you and see
what comes up, which I think isactually ties to ecos psychology

(49:41):
a little bit, where you're justkind of like It does, yeah.
You're like, you're likewatching and noticing and being
like, why does this make me feelthat way?
Let me think about that.
You know?
Did you have any big aha momentsduring that retreat?
Um, a few things.
So the, I guess one of thethings that some people
experience, I did experiencethis actually, is this, at one

(50:05):
point when I was meditating, itreally felt like I was
dissociated a little bit whereit felt like.
I couldn't really tell you likewhat the solid parts of my body
were.
It was like very swishy.
Mm-hmm.
I love that swish.
Yeah.
That's just, that's how felt,how, how did, was that
comfortable or was it just weirdor like, what did that feel like

(50:25):
for you?
So it was, so that was reallyweird'cause I think for a lot of
people they're like blown away.
Like, oh my God, what justhappened to me?
Um, but for me, after thathappened, I was like, this has
happened to me before.
So it was really trippyactually.
Um, and I remembered it was, Iread, uh, it was after I read

(50:46):
The Four Agreements actually,that book.
Oh yes.
I love that book.
And then I read the end of thatbook, which is like, after you
go through it, it's that idea oflike, you know, you have that
fire within you and you can passthat fire onto as many people
and your fire does not getextinguished.
Mm-hmm.
And I remember reading thatbook, I was in high school I
think, and I like was lying downon my bed.

(51:09):
And I just like, completely feltlike I dissolved into my bed.
Wow.
And so then when I did thislater, I'm like, oh, that
happened to me already, whichwas crazy.
Um, do you quantify that as likea deep meditation or, um, yeah.
Like how, what do you, whatwould you call that feeling?
Mm-hmm.
I guess it's a little bit ofkind of like a loss of ego.

(51:31):
Yeah.
Like an outof body experience.
I've had also out of bodyexperiences Really.
Okay.
Separately, but that's like,yeah.
That's a little different.
'cause for me, that's kind ofalmost like a third person.
Mm.
This is more just like a, likefizzling into your environment
really.
Of just like being con likebeing really, really connected.

(51:51):
Yeah.
The way you're describing it isthat like, it's almost like all
your energy is reaching out toall the other energy around you
and it's just like, meldingtogether.
Yeah.
It's more of like, we all maybeknow that if you touch
something, it's like things.
Are being exchanged all thetime.
Like the cells are beingexchanged, things are jumping
around.
So it felt like you could kindof see that happening.
Whoa.
Where it's like, oh, that's partof me and I'm part of that.

(52:13):
And everything is kind of movingaround.
It's like more of ourperspective that kind of creates
this separation.
Mm-hmm.
So it's like, it was, it's likehigh concept.
Yeah.
Were, did you pop out of that?
It was like a bubble popped oryou slowly kind of came back?
I think it was more of, becauseit's all about breathing.
Yeah.
And so really the Vipassana, nomeditation, I should have said
this earlier, is, is very, verybreath oriented.

(52:36):
Okay.
So you just kind of breathecounts.
Like foreign hold that?
No, it's, it is just like that'swhat you're focusing on.
Okay.
You're just watching yourbreath.
Yeah.
So it's really trying to not bejudgmental and not be
controlling.
Um, there was in the beginning,it's so funny.
I.
Was having issues because I washaving like Rage Against The

(52:59):
Machine just laying in my head.
Really?
Yes.
I knew about this.
I was waiting for you to bringit up like, like aggressively.
Aggressively.
And I'm trying to meditate andI'm like, what is happening?
And I actually had to talk tothe teacher about it.
Wow.
'cause I was like, it's beenthree days and I cannot get rage
against the machine outta myhead.
Like what do I do?

(53:19):
What did they say about whatthey thought that was?
They were just like, you justhave to, you just have to let it
be.
Yeah.
You just have to let it be.
It'll pass.
It's like you're working throughstuff., Was it a one song or was
it a couple songs?
And if it was, when you listento it now Oh, does it transport
you questions back to that Greatquestions.
You know, like, yeah.
Yeah.
Good questions.

(53:40):
It was multiple songs.
Okay.
Um.
And No, I actually haven'tthought about that, but I think
it's because I love rage againstthe machine separately.
Yeah.
So there's a lot of differentthings I can tie it back to.
Yeah.
I, I almost wonder if it waslike, for me, it, I would think
it was like my subconsciouswanting to fight the sensation
of letting go.
Did you go into it, that retreatwith an intention of trying to

(54:03):
discover something?
Were you in a difficult,emotional or mental place when
you entered into that?
So, yeah, so it was betweensophomore year and junior year
of college for me.
And sophomore year wasdifficult.
It was a difficult time of justlike my mental state really.
Um, and my dad had doneVipasana, he goes all the time

(54:26):
still, but he had done it acouple times and, um, I was
like, you know, I think I needto go.
I just, I just need to, andthat's what I always tell people
is like, I think.
People should do it.
I think it's great, but never doit if you feel like you have to
or if someone is telling you to.
Yeah.
Like you really, it's, it'shard.
It's not easy.

(54:46):
So you really need to go becauseyou want to.
Yeah.
And you feel ready.
Were you able to take that sortof sensation of I'm connected to
everything, everything isconnected to me outside of that
retreat?
Do you feel like it changed you?
I feel like it's a good remindera lot of times because it's
like, if things feel, even ifthings feel targeted at you or

(55:10):
something, or if you feel likeyou're going through such a hard
time or you feel like I wassaying, really disconnected with
your world as I think we all canand our world is kind of like
designed to make us feeldisconnected from each other and
from it.
Yeah.
So it's kind of a good reminderto be like, it's more of an
illusion, you know?
It's like something that we kindof do.

(55:30):
It's almost like actually.
The idols thing where it's like,oh, let's put our energy in
these figures because it's toocomplicated to try to look at
the whole scope of it.
So it's like, okay, let's putour energy in these figures of
our bodies and our personalitiesand who we are, because it's too
complicated to try to look atthe world and be like, ah, we're
all the same.
We're, you know, we're not realpeople, you know?

(55:52):
Yeah.
It's a lot.
Wow.
I feel like I know this answer,but I still wanna ask it.
Uh, when you are feeling thatway, like, anxious, targeted,
you know, like you need toremind yourself.
Mm-hmm.
What is the quickest way?
What, what's something you do?
Yeah, that's a really goodquestion.

(56:13):
What I've been trying to do now,and it's been the most helpful
for me, is to do a sensoryexercise, which we did during
the capstone as well.
But it's really just to take aminute.
And be like, okay, what do Isee?
What do I smell?
What do I hear?
What can I taste?
If anything, like sometimes youcan get taste in the air, and

(56:34):
then what do I feel?
And really trying to useadjectives to describe that
because I feel like it focusesyou in a way, but it also
connects you again.
'cause you're like, oh, I'mlike, I'm touching this, I'm
hearing this.
If I'm hearing these birds, theymight be hearing me too, and it
kind of builds that bridgeagain.
Mm-hmm.
I love that.

(56:54):
Do you meditate still?
Are you an avid meditator?
I don't really.
I should, I don't.
You're really good at this.
Whenever I slipped into a deepmeditation, it's not what you
described.
I think that's like a, like anapex, like new level underneath.
I, I describe it as being likeunderneath myself.
Mm.
I like that.

(57:15):
Um, but, but yeah, like I, I'mstill like aware maybe that is
more like an outer bodyexperience.
Mm-hmm.
What were, what were the outbody experiences that you've
had?
Oh, yeah.
Um.
Since I was a kid, I feel likeI've always kind of had out of
body experiences where I alwaysthought of myself in third
person.
Mm-hmm.
Moments.
Even when I was a child.

(57:36):
Moments or just in general inthe, even in the mirror to
myself.
I've had only one time where Iwas looked in the mirror and I
swear I was just like, who isthat?
Yeah.
Wait, what?
I still do that sometimes andI'm like, I can just move my
hand if I want to.
Like, it's really weird.
It's really weird.
Yeah.
I've, the only time I've hadanything that was like this at

(57:56):
all is in New York, you know,they're like, a lot of the bars
have mirrors.
Oh yeah.
But you don't know.
'cause it's like everything's sosmall, they're just trying to
make it big.
I remember walking in to a barand I saw what turned out to be
myself, but, um, I thought itwas another girl.
I was like.
Why is she looking at me likethat?
I was like, she looks like sucha bitch.

(58:16):
And then I was like, it's me.
And then I realized, Ooh, I'vebeen really judgmental.
Oh no.
Wow.
But yeah, I didn't realize itwas myself for a second and it
was really weird.
Yeah.
And I judge myself pretty hard.
It's like when dogs are cats,discover themselves in the air.
Yeah.
That's funny.
Yeah.
Wow.
So a little about me.

(58:38):
Um, what are your, like whatpractices do you do currently?
Like is this sensory exercisesomething that you do all the
time or just when you're feelingoverwhelmed?
I try to practice, I especiallytry to practice if I'm out
hiking or something, justbecause I love it.
Like, it feels so cool to evenjust when you're hiking, to
think about things like, okay,I'm stepping here, but like, who

(58:59):
else knows?
Like who else?
Meaning like.
Other, not human, um, knows thatI'm here and knows that I'm like
stepping on this ground.
And like, because they all knowall of the like insects, hawks
can see for miles.
They all know that we're there.
But I feel like sometimes we areso in our own heads and in our
own lives that we don't noticehow other people are noticing

(59:22):
us.
And I feel like it's really coolto think about that.
Wow.
That is really cool.
So like also earlier when youwere like, uh, when you're doing
the sensory thing, you like, oh,what, you know, if you hear a
bird, they probably hear youtoo.
And it's funny how I don't thinkI ever really think about that.
Mm-hmm.
Of like, who's noticing me rightnow.
Yeah.
And for you guys, like you hadthe hummingbird nest in your

(59:44):
Yes.
In your backyard.
That hummingbird knew you.
It probably knew both of you andwas like, oh, these people are
not a threat to me.
So I feel safe building my nesthere.
Oh, I think the nest is stillthere.
Yeah.
I hope it's, I love that.
So do you, do you go outside alot?
I feel like, oh yeah.
Yes.
I like to go outside, but alsosometimes when I can't, it's,

(01:00:08):
um, it's helpful.
And this was something, one ofthe first things I learned in,
in ecos psychology is likenature is not out there.
It's everywhere.
And whether you have plants, Imean as clean as we try to keep
our, keep our house, there'll belittle spiders living in the
corner.
Like even, you know, one thingthat I love is that you have a

(01:00:28):
microbiome in your gut thatyou're cultivating, like you're
living with all of theseorganisms all the time, even if
you're not thinking about it.
Wow.
Okay.
Wow.
Hi little Michael.
Bye.
Hi.
Yeah, soon as you like bedrinking or something, be like,
I'm so sorry.
I so love you.

(01:00:49):
So are you like, you'll neverkill a spider, you'll never kill
a bug kitchen release?
I'm not, I'm not really thatperson because I don't think we,
I also don't think we need toapologize for living.
Mm-hmm.
I think we need to liveconsciously and live
intentionally, but I think allof that is also part of the
natural cycle.

(01:01:09):
Mm-hmm.
And it's like, you know, I feellike if I really felt that way,
honestly, I think it would bevery difficult to live my life
as a person who loved myselfbecause so much of that is
unintentional.
So much of that is like, you'rewalking and you might step on an
ant, and you shouldn'tnecessarily feel like a terrible

(01:01:29):
person in my eyes.
You're also living here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh God.
That made me feel like, are weants to some greater force?
Maybe I've thought of that too.
Yeah, I thought about that too,of what I mentioned before is
sometimes I feel like we're amolecule or something.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like, oh, maybe theearth is a molecule in a bigger

(01:01:51):
Yes.
Organism.
It's so funny when you said it,I literally pictured, I was
like, well, earth kind of lookslike, yeah, yeah.
And you like, keep, so, soanother thing that we talk about
in, in Eco Psy is thateverything is in fractals.
So it's like, if you, what doesthat mean?
So, so like if you look at likethe veins on a leaf or
something, it, if you, it canmirror the shape of the larger
tree, as a whole.

(01:02:11):
Oh.
And it's like, oh, we are all,if you keep going like deeper
and deeper and deeper, you'llfind similar patterns and
similar shapes.
And um, I was like, well, whycan't we expand that out?
Do you feel like there's,there's something in your life
that is a pattern?
Has Ecos psychology helped youto dissect a pattern in your own
life?
Yes.
Good question.
So that was actually one of themain things that we had to do,

(01:02:33):
is we had to pick a narrative inourselves that we felt like was
harmful or destructive.
And we really worked with it andwe tried to get to a place where
we can at least identify it andrealize when it's showing up in
our lives.
And at best, I think like ittakes, it's a lifetime of work,

(01:02:53):
but to really manage andrecognize how you react to that
happening and be like, okay,well how can I manage my
reaction so that this thing doesnot always trigger me and make
me act out this way?
Mm-hmm.
So I was really getting into mynarrative of perfectionism.

(01:03:14):
And it's something that I'mstill working on.
You know, it's like I said, it'san ongoing thing.
Yeah.
But now at least I can recognizeit and I can call it something
and just, I know how I respondand how I feel when I respond.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, it's kind of justhaving grace with yourself also,
but managing, is there anelement of nature that you sort

(01:03:36):
of used to explore yourperfectionism?
I mean, I think that's a reallygood question, by the way.
Yeah.
But I think that, I think likeall of nature kind of touches on
that.
Mm-hmm.
Because if you look, again, Italk about hummingbirds a lot
because we have a lot ofhummingbirds in my balcony.
Um, but if you look at ahummingbird, you are like, that

(01:03:57):
hummingbird is just being ahummingbird.
It's just doing its thing.
It's like going, you know,getting its food, it's making
its nest, it's just doing itsbest and it's not.
Overthinking things.
It's not sitting there beinglike, oh, what are other people
gonna think of me?
It's like, no, I just, am Ibeing a hummingbird enough?
It's so true.
Yeah.

(01:04:18):
Yeah.
It's like perfect in itswholeness.
Mm-hmm.
Well, it's like more in itstrust I feel like, where it's
like I'm trusting that if I livemy life to my best capacity,
then I will be doing what I ammeant to do on this Earth.
I just have to do it.
I just have to, you know, Idon't need anyone's approval or
validation.

(01:04:38):
Yeah.
It's interesting.
There's so much of the thingsthat we do and worry about that
are just like ingrained in thisstuff from our past.
I discovered something I, I'mtrying not to say I had a
realization'cause I'd be all,you could do a super cut.
Our, how annoying.
I'm so annoying.
You can change the name, changethe name of the podcast.

(01:04:59):
I had a realization, but I'vebeen doing this thing where this
book I'm reading called, oh MyGod, code, the Extraordinary
Life.
I mean, I should be paid by thathonestly.
Not a paid, not a paid mock.
Um, so he talks about howimportant forgiveness is of like
anybody you have anyresentfulness towards.

(01:05:22):
Mm-hmm.
And how that actually likeraises your vibration and makes
you more of a match for thingsyou want.
And, and I hadn't reallyreckoned with that.
Like I thought there are peoplethat I resent for big reasons
and small reasons.
Mm-hmm.
Exes roommates, like.
I, I released my, one of myacting teachers but I didn't
realize it was like holding meback in any way.
Mm-hmm.
So I kind of combined hisprocess with yoga, so during

(01:05:45):
yoga practice now I, becausealso my yoga is like warm yoga,
so you sweat a lot.
So basically we had a guest on acouple times ago who was another
acting student of mine, and wehad the same manager when I was
growing up.
Oh, okay.
And that manager, I had a reallyodd relationship with her and
she's now passed away, andJulia, who we had on, is a

(01:06:06):
medium.
And she was like, Eileen toldyou hi.
Eileen was the manager and itkind of brought this thing up
for me.
Yeah.
She wasn't on my list of peoplethat I was resentful of, but
when she said that I was like,ah, yes.
Because she would think I wastalented and then she wouldn't
like, she like liked me and thenshe would, it was just like a
very confusing, firstrepresentative as an actor.
Person to have.

(01:06:26):
And then she passed away and Iwas like, I feel like I have all
these weird feelings about this.
And I hadn't talked to her inyears and, and didn't end badly.
But it, it, it, like, it justaffected me, like as an artist.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
To have your first person, shewas on your list, but obviously
it came up, you know, it wasn'tactively in your mind.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
At the, at the time, you know.
Right.
Or, or currently.
Right.
But, so I've done some work, sohis whole process is like, you

(01:06:48):
think about what happened, youfeel the feelings for three
minutes and for her, when I didthis in yoga, it was like a lot
of shame.
Like she made me feel veryashamed of wanting her to think
I was good.
I felt ashamed of, I feltashamed of like not being good
enough.
Just I, it was just very shamebased, was the feeling that I
had.
And then you kind try to havecompassion for them of.
Why that could have come up andshe had a daughter and did I

(01:07:10):
remind her?
And just even if you're justkind of giving them reasons,
just even just making up, makingup.
Yeah.
With my acting teacher, I waslike, maybe his mom was going
through a really hard time andthat was why, you know,
whatever, right?
Mm-hmm.
So you do that and then for me,what I've added on is what did I
learn from that experience andhow have I grown?
And during that part, yoga, Irealized that I have a thing

(01:07:30):
with mid forties women with darkhair.
Oh my gosh.
Who are really strong becausemm-hmm.
Anytime I've come across a womanwho in her mid forties with dark
hair who's really strong at it,is like a really kind of tough.
Vibe.
I feel like they instantly don'tlike me.
I feel instantly uncomfortableand I realized this, I was like,
oh my God, it's because ofEileen.

(01:07:50):
Wow.
I was talking to my husbandabout it because it happened, I
don't even remember when, likesomebody, we, I don't know, some
stumbled upon.
I was like, no.
I can tell she doesn't like me.
He was like, I didn't get thatvibe, but it's my own stuff.
It's like your inner criticalmost.
I wonder if you've like assignedher as that role.
That's really smart.
I think I did.

(01:08:11):
I think it was the first personthat I really felt, at least
acting wise, that I really feltwas very sort of wishy-washy
about my ability, you know?
Oh, yeah.
And, in a way, I think now it'smade me really grateful for the
reps that I have who I know,believe in me so hard and maybe
without that experience Iwouldn't have this like,
gratitude for them.
Yeah.
But yeah, I, I kind of realizedthat yeah, I think I would've

(01:08:34):
spent the rest of my life justbeing like mid forties women
with dog hair.
So weird.
We apologize to those listening.
I'm really excited.
Oh, come at me because I reallywanna meet another, I can't wait
to meet the next mid fortieswhen with dark hair, with a
tough vibe and see if I feellike, okay, we, like raised to
whatever it was there.

(01:08:55):
Mm-hmm.
There must be so many of thosethings in a life, you know?
Yeah.
There, there's gotta be so manyof those things that I just
haven't uncovered yet.
Yeah.
And that's the other thing.
I feel like all of us wouldaspire to be the perfect
parents, or even that, and it'slike, that's, it's completely
impossible.
Yeah.
There's no way when I thinkabout like, little things that I
remember from growing up mm-hmm.

(01:09:15):
And like.
That was such a throwawaycomment.
They weren't even probably, youknow, they weren't even probably
thinking about that.
But as a child, it stuck in myhead for some reason.
And it's like everyone is gonnahave those things and you kind
of just have to understand thatto a certain extent.
I feel like, yeah, that's areally hard part about being a
parent, but I have been cryingabout because you're right, I
try my best, but yeah, likeit's, and you know what, it's

(01:09:37):
not even gonna be the thing thatI've worked so hard, like if I
lose it with them.
And we apologized and had thiswhole conversation and I'm like,
oh, are they gonna rememberthat?
No, it me that, yeah.
It's gonna be when I'm in thecar and I'm like, that frog is
yellow and they think it'sgreen.
You know, 25 years later they'reon a podcast.
But the thing is I need to keepin mind too, is that I do feel
like a lot of us, and like Iknow just from listening to your

(01:09:59):
podcast, that like, you're doingthe work on your end, so it's
going to be better.
And it's like, like I said, Idon't think anything will ever
be perfect, but the hope is it'sgoing to be better.
Right.
And I believe that, and I thinkwe all have to believe that and
to live intentionally.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I think that's what it goes backto is like, there's so many
unknowns, there's so many thingsthat we affect that we don't
even realize.

(01:10:20):
Right?
Yeah.
And I think, I don't know, I, Ireally love that.
And I think that gives me solacetoo, to remind myself like, as
long as I try my best, as longas I.
Stay open and stay educated andexplore and realize that there's

(01:10:40):
so much more to, to it and takethat in strides.
Mm-hmm.
It's all gonna be okay.
Yeah.
That's kind of all you can do islike, all you can do is really
live well, like mm-hmm.
Like live to the best of yourability.
And I think ultimately you willinspire other people and the
hope is, again, that you can addthem to the garden and like grow

(01:11:02):
it, you know?
Yeah.
Do you ever, do you guys everget overwhelmed by just like
they enormity of it all?
I think for me, I like thatoverwhelming feeling.
It like, like feeling, right?
It comes back to you.
It's going back, coming back tome.
Cool.
With just not knowing it's kind.

(01:11:22):
But I think there is in, in, youcan flip it like there's this,
like, it's a hands off, but it,it's.
Yeah.
It makes me, reminds me that I'mpart of something so big and
beautiful.
Mm.
And complex.
Do you feel ever overwhelmed bythe enormity of like, your
journey to like self discovery?

(01:11:44):
No.
What about you?
What about, yeah.
What about for the love of God?
I, if it's overwhelmed though, Ithink it's just, I think it's a
cool, I think it's fun todiscover.
Mm-hmm.
I think it, yeah.
It's almost like, it's likelooking at it from like a

(01:12:05):
landscape view to be like, okay.
Like it is, to me, it's moreorienting to be like, I'm here,
this is where I am.
Okay.
And I feel like it's hard to, atleast for me, it's really hard
to pinpoint that and get that.
If I don't have anything to bein relationship with, because
it's like, if I am just existinghere by myself, then yes, I

(01:12:28):
probably would have really,really lofty goals.
And, you know, I'd feel bad if Ididn't hit my own deadlines.
But it's like, if I really thinkabout it, it's like, okay,
realistically where am I?
What are all the things that I'mdealing with every day, working
with every day?
And where do I wanna be with allof this in mind?
And I feel like it, it kind ofgives me a little bit more of a

(01:12:50):
viewpoint or like at thethreshold to be like, maybe I'm
not at the top of the mountainyet, but it's like, I'm here.
I'm like made it to a quarterway through.
And like there's really niceflowers to look at along the
way.
And it's like, I'm just gonnastop here for a second and look
at these flowers and I, and Ifeel like, you know, I'll get
there.
It's, I'm just making my waywith as much love and intention

(01:13:13):
as I can.
Mm-hmm.
And there's that like, again,that trust of like.
I'll get where I need to go.
Yeah.
Do you feel that your life ispredestined in some way?
No.
Do you feel it's all free will?
Um, no.
Okay.

(01:13:33):
I feel like there are pushes andpulls mm-hmm.
That we, again, that we all kindof live with, that shape us into
the people that we are.
Um, so it, I don't think it'sfree will.
'cause to me, that feels likeyou have agency over everything
and I don't think that we do.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
And it's more of like, we are,it's almost like a tide again

(01:13:55):
with the ecos psychology, it'slike a tie.
But that's, that's, that makesso much sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's like guiding, it's likekind of a guiding force.
You can swim against it, youknow, if you're like, no, I do
not like it here.
You can always move.
But I think if you're open, likeyou said, Olivia, like you're
open, you're listening, you'llget.

(01:14:16):
Little signs, you'll get littlelike, oh, I'm feeling
uncomfortable in my body in thissituation.
Like, maybe I shouldn't putmyself in this situation
anymore.
So I feel like there's freewill.
I don't think your path is kindof laid out for you, but I do
feel like there are alwaysthings that work around you that
are kind of like part of yourjourney.

(01:14:38):
Mm-hmm.
That's interesting when you saythat.
I had, I had another realizationtoday, guys.
Yeah, sure.
Please.
I just, I love yourrealizations.
Well, listen, you just, you'revery, you're wonderful.
Like I could talk to you about,I feel like that's why I'm,
because I just feel like I, Iwant you guidance really, but
like, okay.
Tell me if this is little ornot.
She's a doctor, so I have thiswhiteboard in my room.

(01:15:02):
Mm-hmm.
And I haven't cleaned it sincemy youngest daughter was born,
who's now four.
And so do, was stuck on, and Ihad this whole kind of.
I'm not like in a bad place, butI feel like this cyclical nature
of my mental state with mycareer is like frustrating to
me.
Yeah.
Because I had this whole thread,you, Elizabeth, again, I had
that thread of the death andthen I cut the thread of the

(01:15:23):
death.
Right.
And now like we're, and likewe're on in real time here.
Like this is like, you know,when this airs, this is like
three months of the future.
Yeah.
Like what this moment is.
But like this moment is I cutthe thread down and I thought it
was gonna be great and then, butlike, I'm still worried.
Mm-hmm.
Like I, I, I don't wanna be, butI am like I know what's gonna
happen for me.
Yeah.
But I now, I don't know when andnow like that's what is focusing

(01:15:46):
on and whatever.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
I met with my friend Glen.
Hi Glen.
He's the podcaster.
Hi Glen.
And he's very spiritual andwonderful and into manifestation
and stuff.
And he was like, and I had thisthing we were repeating of like,
if it's not gonna happen untilI'm 65, then I'd rather know now
so that I can do something elseand not stress myself out.
And he was like.

(01:16:06):
By you saying it's not gonnahappen until you're 65.
You are like making that cometrue for yourself.
Mm.
So, okay.
So I had the whole okay.
Reckoning.
Then I realized on my whiteboardit said, it said this and I had
to rub it off with alcohol.
It said, if it happens in a realway before you're 40, you've
been struck by lightning.
Weight it out.
So then I was like, wait, I'mcreating like for my career.

(01:16:29):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Like if, if I were to pop offbefore I'm, which I wrote to
make myself feel better at thattime.
Mm-hmm.
I'm sure.
Right?
Because it's hard and confusing.
Mm-hmm.
But I was basically putting thatout.
And then right next to it isabout meditation.
It said be still and know iswhat it said.
Okay.
So I'm erasing the white worksand then I take the kids to swim
and we come back and my neighborcomes out with a shirt and the

(01:16:50):
shirt says, be still.
And No.
What?
What is that?
Not crow.
Whoa.
Yeah.
Did you talk to them?
No, no, I didn't talk to herbecause I have a, yeah, I
didn't, it was a whole otherpodcast, but she, like, body
shamed me one time and, oh, wasshe dark hair?

(01:17:11):
Mid forties?
I think she's a little bit olderthat, but, um, just got dark
hair, but yeah.
Um, okay.
Isn't that weird?
But, but yeah.
So you like, but you were there,like, you, you were open to
that.
You were, I don't wanna saylooking for it, but you were
receive, you were in a receivingplace.
Mm-hmm.

(01:17:31):
Because probab, I mean, I don'tknow, but I'm assuming that if
it was like another day and youwere like doing all this stuff
and running around you pro youmight have not given it a second
thought.
Yeah.
But like, you were in it, youwere there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
See, that stuff really makes mebe like, there's something at
work.
Mm-hmm.
Like, I can't understand howthat, and like, that, there's so
many examples of that, so whatdo you think that was at work

(01:17:53):
with?
It was like saying like, no, bemore present.
Was was that.
Ultimately what you are takingfrom this or I think I'm taking
from it that I'm on the righttrack, first of all with try
with eliminating the sort oflanguage of me saying it's not
gonna happen until this, it'snot gonna happen until that,
yeah.
It's not gonna happen untilthis.
And also like those two sides ofmy whiteboard were two different

(01:18:15):
ideas.
Like one was meditate and bestill and no, and trust the
timing and like all the stuffthat we talk about.
And the other side was like, youknow, it's not gonna happen for
a long time.
It's not gonna happen for a longtime.
It was that like, it was likeone was taking it in and one was
pushing it out, I think.
And to me it says take it in,you know?
Yeah.
Well it sounds like, yeah, oneside to me sounds like you're

(01:18:36):
managing your expectations.
Yes.
To be like, oh, you know, youmight get hurt, but like there's
fear in that.
And I feel like when I hear youtalk about the other side, it's
more of how I kind of view beingan artist where it's like you,
if you love to do it, if it'slike what you're called to do,
then you have to.
Just do it.
Like you do it for that, andthen, then it's like, be still

(01:18:56):
and know that it will come toyou if you're, again, like, it's
kind of like living Well, it'slike if you mm-hmm.
It's like what we did with ourplay.
I was, we were just still, I wasjust about to bring that up.
Yeah, you can.
Oh yeah.
No.
Yeah.
It's like, I feel like we weretalking about, it coincided with
us realizing we have beenfriends for 20 years and we've

(01:19:17):
been always creative together.
Obviously, you know, I'm dance.
Yeah.
We bring it back and, uh, it'sjust, uh, we've, you've been in
my safe place to do that.
And I wanted to act.
You wanted to direct.
Mm-hmm.
And you were like, I beenwanting do this play since
college.
And we're like, okay.

(01:19:37):
The play was fantastic, by theway.
Thank you.
Thank you, thank you.
It was, yes, but we just like,we just.
Did it.
You just did it.
And, and I feel like that'ssomething that's why I've been
struggling with, with, with myperfectionism narrative is
because where I find it hindersme the most is I am afraid to
sometimes start creativeprojects because I'm like, oh.
Even with the play, I was like,oh my God, what am I doing?

(01:19:59):
And like, it was not easy, butit was, again, it was just kind
of that thing where it's like,we're doing this because we want
to.
Yeah.
So it kind of takes a lot ofthat, what am I gonna get back
from this out of it?
And it's like, no, we justreally wanna do this.
Yeah.
We're already getting it.
Yeah.
By doing it.
Exactly.
You, you're already receiving inthe doing.
It's like, again, to to, we didthis junior miss competition.

(01:20:23):
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
We were in pageant.
Oh my gosh.
It was a pageant.
Yeah.
The two of us.
I mean, I Wow.
The prize was a scholarship.
Yes.
So I think that's why both ofour families were like, you
should do it.
But, but you had to do all thelittle things and there was a
talent section and afterwards.
Us two were like, oh my God,cool.
Like that was, and then theywere like, oh, we have to do the

(01:20:44):
judging.
And we're like, what?
Yes.
We're like, wait, this.
Oh, I totally forgot thatthere's like awards.
We were just doing it for fun.
Yeah, we just did it for fun.
Do you believe in separateuniverses?
That's a good question.
Um, I don't not believe in them.
Okay.
Yeah.
I feel like I don't have enough.
I don't know.

(01:21:04):
I don't know enough.
I think it's interesting tothink about I always think about
like all of the differentchoices I could have made all
and like how I would've been, soeven if it's not my choice
mm-hmm.
The choices my parents couldhave made where we moved or we
didn't move, and how vastlydifferent of a person I might
have become.
Mm-hmm.
I'm like, it would beinteresting to think of myself

(01:21:24):
as that other person somewhere.
Yeah.
Totally.
But what about reincarnation?
Because I feel like I tiereincarnation to nature in some
way in my head.
Yeah.
Um, so, and also reincarnationis a very Hindu thought.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I do in some way believe inreincarnation or I guess in a
couple ways.

(01:21:44):
So one of my favorites is thatthis idea, this um, concept that
you are, when you're reborn, youhave similar souls that are
reborn with you and they canshow up as different people.
So it's kind of like the idea ofsoulmates, but it's like they
can show up as different peoplein your life.

(01:22:05):
It could be like your mother inone life, your best friend in
another life.
Mm-hmm.
But it's like these group ofsouls.
Yeah.
But we travel together.
Yeah.
Or it's like the same peoplekeep showing up in your life and
play different roles, and you'relike a group I love that idea
because I do feel like there'speople that I've met where it's
like, you're very familiar.

(01:22:26):
Mm-hmm.
You know, you have that instantfamiliarity with someone, or
you're like, this is, you know,it just, it feels, it feels like
normal.
Mm-hmm.
Or, there's just like that kindof knowing of each other.
So that's one that I really kindof do feel, and it's not
everybody, it's just like, it'slike a handful of people who
kind of come with you.

(01:22:47):
And then I also think about thisidea.
I remember when my, my, um,partner's grandfather passed,
um, he kind of asked me thisquestion.
Mm.
And I was, I remember thinkingin that moment where I was like,
I feel like it's kind of likethe ocean where you, it's like a
drop in the ocean where it'slike it's still there.

(01:23:07):
Mm-hmm.
But it, you can't like identifyit.
So it's like if someone, ifsomeone passes, it's like their
energy is still there.
That's kind of how I think ofit.
Yeah.
But it's not that in that form,basically.
Right.
So in those ways I kind of dofeel, I think I do believe in
reincarnation.
Do you think that a soul hasqualities?

(01:23:29):
Like what does it, whatcomprises of a soul?
I don't know.
That's a really good question.
I feel like that is, I, I thinkI'm gonna defer to my
grandfather on this and say Godis consciousness.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like if you're, if you'rea conscious being, then that's
kind of your defining trait.
Hmm.

(01:23:49):
But so the interesting thing,which to me it feels like we've
known this for a long time, but,but is now you hear all of this
science and stuff where it'slike trees have consciousness
and all this stuff, and it'slike.
To me, I'm kind of like, Yeah.
Yeah.
You didn't feel that before, butnow in our world if it's not
proven by Western science, it'snot real.

(01:24:11):
But, now it is being proven bywestern science in ways that
like plants communicate.
You know?
They, um, even if it's just tolike, tell others that this
predator is coming and likerelease this toxin into your
leaves so that they can't eatyou type of communication.
Yeah.
Which is amazing.
Mm-hmm.
It's so cool.
But, so, yeah, so it's like thisidea, it's like, okay, well

(01:24:33):
trees have consciousness.
How many things haveconsciousness consciousness and
soul in that like, yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
So'cause in, because in Hinduismyou can be reincarnated as an
animal and, and all of this,and.
I, that's something that I alsogrew up with those stories of
mm-hmm.
Of like Hindu myths, a lot ofthem.
And not just in Hinduism.

(01:24:53):
I, I just, my, um, knowledge islimited for other cultures, but
I, I believe even in like Greekmythology and stuff, like God's
came back as animals.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that was anotherthing that I always learned
growing up.
And it was kind of that like, benice to animals.
'cause you never know if it's agod interesting it's coming
back, you know?
That's how I was.

(01:25:14):
Siri.
I'm really nice to Siri.
Yeah.
That's scary.
Is gonna take over.
Oh, Siri.
Yeah.
You gotta be real nice.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
Um, if you could come back as ananimal.
Yeah.
Good question.
But would you be a cat?
Yeah.
Yes.
I thought you were gonna saywolf.
Yeah.
But yeah, I mean, I love wolves.

(01:25:35):
They do not have it.
Good though.
Easy.
You wanna be Merlin hanging out.
I wanna be Merlin.
She has a cat named Merlin.
I look at him every day and I'mlike, oh God, I wish I could be
as comfortable as you are allthe time.
Shout out to Merlin.
We love you Olivia.
Let's say what I think you wouldbe and you say what you think
you would be at the same time.

(01:25:55):
All three.
Okay.
Wait me?
Yeah.
What animal you think you wouldreincarnate as?
And I'm gonna say what I thinkyou also would be.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Ready?
Okay.
1, 2, 3.
Ot, Platypus Otter.
I just wanted to think about apot.
Uh, Platy puss is, it's notPlaty pie.
It's Platy puss, by the way.
Okay.
Alright.
I just learned this, but it'sactually pretty close.

(01:26:18):
I love them.
They're so cute.
Ter.
Yeah, otter's cute.
Okay.
What about you?
Okay, wait, hold on.
I gotta think about my answer.
God, that's really hard.
Oh my God.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I feel overwhelmed.
I think I know mine.
Mm-hmm.
It's, it came off and I don'teven know, I, I, I'll explain it
when I figure it out, but I hadan image.
Okay.
I have an image.
Yeah.
Okay.
It's not exactly right, but,okay.

(01:26:39):
I'll go.
Ready?
1, 2, 3.
Robin.
Oh, Robin, this Robin.
I, I thought it was some kind ofbird too, but I, I also don't
know you that well, but that'swhat I got.
I got bird.
Yeah.
Interesting.
I got bird.
Yeah, I got you.
I, I saw you as like a bird justflying.
Yeah.
Like that's what I Yeah, that's,I dunno what it was.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(01:26:59):
Okay.
Interesting.
I love that.
Oh yeah.
All right.
Well, is there anything youwanna plug?
Anything you want to endorse?
So, I have been hatching alittle plan, um, hibernating on
it over the winter, and I feellike it's finally ready to
emerge to spring.

(01:27:20):
Yeah.
Pop out of the ground andsprout.
Um, I am.
Uh, trying.
I'm going to start, um, hostinglike an eco psychology kind of
group sessions in the park, um,by my house in Sherman Oaks.
And I, um, would love to havepeople join.
I wanna start this as more of a,a informative, but also like

(01:27:43):
group session where people canask questions and share thoughts
and share dreams and ideas andall of this.
Um, really just my biggest goalhere is building connection and
relationality in our communityand finding ways that we could
do that.
So if anybody's interested, um,I am, I'm interested.
I will let the wonderful host ofthis podcast know when it comes

(01:28:06):
a little bit more into fruition.
Um, but would love to have you,and I would love to get all of
your perspectives because I feellike learning from you all and
hearing what you've all beenthrough as well just makes me
grow.
So that sounds amazing.
Yeah.
I'm so in.
You're fantastic.
I know.
Thank you.

(01:28:26):
I'm so glad you're here.
I know.
I'm like in awe of you kind of.
I put my notebook down.
This is so wonderful.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Oh, we need to decide.
Oh yeah.
I have a practice.
Okay.
Yes, guys.
Okay.
Thank you.
I have a practice.
This was one thing I did thinkabout.
Okay.
I'm picking up my notebook.
Pick up your notebook.

(01:28:46):
Pick up your notebook.
Okay.
So my practice, and this doesn'thave to be, I don't think it has
to be consistent, um, but if itmakes it easier to remember, I'd
say once every two days or so.
Okay.
Um, but I think it, I think it,my practice is to look at
something outside of you andkind of think about that critter
that being's life.

(01:29:08):
Hmm.
And, and if you don't know.
I think feel it out.
Like if you, if you can kind ofhypothesize based on what you do
know, do that if you feel soinclined.
Sometimes it's cool to look itup.
Yeah.
And be like, I had no idea aboutthat.
Even if it's very short, verysmall thing.
But it kind of, to me, it helpsyou learn about some someone

(01:29:29):
else and be like, okay, how do,how do we relate?
But an animal of a sort, it canbe an animal, it can be a plant.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
It can be the food that you'reeating.
Oh, the clover, the food.
Ooh.
Yeah.
So it can be, that's also a goodone.
So if you like are eating avegetable or a fruit or
something, you can think aboutthat and be like, what stage of

(01:29:49):
this life of this plan'slifecycle is it in?
Even something like that.
I love that.
That's not great.
And now everything I eat, it'ssuch a, it's such a good
microcosm for looking outsideyourself.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like, it, it, itreally, you really grounded the
idea of looking outsideyourself.
Like the stars is to me, theopposite of the orange.
But I didn't think about theorange, so thanks.

(01:30:12):
You know, think about theorange.
You know?
I love that.
Think about the orange.
Okay.
I love that.
That's great homework.
Yay.
Thank you.
Wonderful.
Thank you so much.
Thanks so much for listening toSPO Oda.
Until next time, be safe, right?
Be sane.
Sane, be safe.
Okay, let's try it.
One, we can be safe too.

(01:30:33):
They can, they can beinterchangeable actually.
Okay.
Yeah, that's true.
That's true.
Although I really like livewell, but that's kind.
I feel like you can no take, Imean, take it.
Beane live.
Well, love it.
Love it.
Okay.
Okay.
Thank you so much for listening.
Spo Oda Beane and Live.
Well.

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