Reaper- FINALE

Thank you ever so much to Andy for commissioning this entire book and for adding on an additional episode so that I could really take my time.
Because I NEEDED SOME TIME, KIDS.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is an Unspoiled Network podcast. This is spoil Me,
covering Reaper chapters twenty five, twenty six and bloopers in
this episode. When I realized what was happening as I

(00:26):
listened to the audio book and brushed my teeth, I
yelled fuck so hard that I sprayed my mirror with toothpaste,
and then out in the bedroom where Owen was listening
in because I had it on a speaker, he started
cackling and then just said, I told you it was good.

(00:53):
Welcome to spoil Me, Welcome to the show everyone. I

(01:16):
am Natasha. Thank you very much to Andy as always
for commissioning these episodes. In this instance, thank you very
much to Andy for inserting an extra episode. I'm recording
on a Saturday now, which I don't usually do. I
understand now why Andy was like, yeah, you may need

(01:39):
a little extra time to talk about it. Okay, here
we go. The chat is blowing up, and just real
quick for those in the chat, my face is weird today,
and that is because I finally got my injections from

(02:01):
my facial twitch on one side, which causes a weird lopsidedness,
and the face isn't twitching but it's also extremely unsymmetrical,
and it's very frustrating. So anyway, what can you do, y'all?
I don't even know where to start talking about this,

(02:21):
I truly don't. I'm just this micause I can lean
back in my chair a little bit. We all had
some moments of guessing Athan might be asmanthus Aurelius. I

(02:44):
went through it myself. We all thought, maybe nah, but
what if no? I don't think so he could be, though,
oh couldy? I wholeheartedly abandoned that theory, like truly, I

(03:16):
cannot emphasize enough the low key contempt that I held
for the theory itself in a way. And what's so
funny is that when I say that I had contempt
for the theory, you would really think I had contempt

(03:38):
due to it feeling like a corny way for things
to go, and that I wouldn't like it if it
plot wise actually happened. But it was more like I
had contempt for the theory because it felt so simple,
and I just felt like there was so many arrows

(04:00):
pointing in other directions that I was just like, come on,
it's not that easy. And so once we realize what's
actually happening now. I'm first of all, I love it.

(04:22):
Let me just say that I had contempt for the theory,
but once it's been done, it's so good. I loved
it so much. And what fucking kills me is how
much this is going to change the rereads. Yet again,

(04:48):
everything that will reveals along the way in this series
has changed the rereads, and this one. I mean, it's
really wild to think that we didn't even meet Ethan
until the second book, and even then they don't really

(05:09):
meet Athan except for like a one moment until sort
of the end of things. So I mean, guys, we
have to make a list of moments where we feel
like fucking dorks because we didn't notice. I can't even

(05:34):
begin to tell you, guys, how obvious it feels in retrospect.
And look, I completely believe that there were folks out
there who had already guessed this and had really like
they were sticking to that theory, and when this happened,

(05:56):
it wasn't that big a shock. But at this point
I'm glad that I didn't decide on that theory and
subscribe to it, because I just don't know how much
I would have lost in the experience if I had

(06:16):
really believed it, you know, I truly, Ah, there are
just so many guys. First of all, just the broom
and he's the best janitor and the broom. I just

(06:37):
I just thought it was a handed down concept. I
thought that was Athan being cheeky. My incredible, illustrious, immortal
ancestor manifested this icon. And thus I'm gonna take it
literally and I'm just gonna like do that. But no,

(07:00):
this makes gentlemen, you are making a mistake. Hit very differently,
everything every him being in the in the in the
the labyrinth and looking fond. Yeah, it's like returning to

(07:25):
your old high school. You just he's nostalgic, like y'all.
I I I I am, I am y'all know I
have said this before. It can be hard to surprise
me these days. I have covered so much and I

(07:49):
have gotten so familiar with so many tropes, and I
have learned a lot of the tricks of I don't
want to say lazy writers because that feels like it's
a purposeful thing. I'll just say slightly less imaginative writers.
And so there are there are things that I sort

(08:12):
of expect and I don't even realize I'm expecting it
unless it doesn't happen. And then there are moments like
this where looking back, I'm realizing how set up this
was the whole time. And they're rare because, as I
have said before, there are plenty of authors who try

(08:35):
to pretend that they've set things up the whole time,
and in my opinion, what they've actually done is retcon
a bunch of things kind of clumsily. But this, one
hundred percent was set up from the start. You can
tell there's no doubt, and was so artfully done that

(09:01):
I can't imagine even people who really did think that
Ethan was osmanthus had like moments of sincere doubt. You know,
I just, oh my god, there's so much going on
in the chat, guys, and I'm sorry I am missing
a lot of it. Let me just scroll back a
little bit. Oh, you know, b More makes a really

(09:22):
good point. Until Reaper, there was nothing narratively gained from
Ethan being Osrael rather than just a second coming Ozrael
not wanting to be alone gave the way it needed
to work. Yeah, And like I believe I already had
that sense that you know, we see when we're in
Surreal's perspective that Osriel basically quit his job because he

(09:44):
was sick of always having to be the one to
deal death out And so I figured that the plea
that he had put out, I'm gonna adjust my mic again,
forgive me everybody. It's probably looks like the recording's kind
of too loud. I just assumed that he was off

(10:07):
fucking on a beach somewhere giving the Abbada on the
finger and was either unaware that one of his descendants
was actively working to help him or didn't like it
was so it was going to be so long before

(10:27):
they were ready that he didn't feel the need to
like step in at that point because there was just
nothing to be gained by interfering that kind of thing.
And when I stop and think about it, that really
doesn't actually make that much sense. But I, you know,

(10:51):
like you don't really stop and interrogate those things because
you just are like, that's just not it though I'm
not even a bother, you know, And everything about him
feeling alone and constantly overpowered to the point that he

(11:11):
alienated people, and the guilt that he feels about Tiberian
and not really like not fully expecting the treachery of
raygan Shehn, particularly because of who he is and what
he should know and be ready for. That guilt is

(11:33):
so much more severe. And there there is just so
much about the the little throwaway lines that he had
and these little moments that make so much more sense
at this point, and I'm just blown away. I honestly am,

(11:56):
like I said, I just yelled fuck because once we
found out that he had found a shroud that could
completely hide his nature, that should have been and that
wasn't even this book that we found out about ages
ago at this point, and I say ages ago. It

(12:20):
might have been last book. I honestly can't remember. But
we should have fucking realized. Kids. No, I did not realize.
I did not realize, And I like partially feel like
a real Dodo. On the other hand, I'm like, I
am not blaming myself for not realizing at all, you know,

(12:42):
I just there are some setups that are just so
well done that you're like, all I got is respect.
That's it. It was a popular theory, and props to
Will for never trying to change things just because people
thought it, says Jake, That's a really good point and
I never really thought about what it would be like
for somebody writing something, especially as quickly as Will Wrights.

(13:07):
If that, you know, like I wonder if it bothered
him that people had caught on or I have to
assume it's part of why he began to really plant
the concept so strongly in this book that Ozmanthius would
never come back to Cradle because he really wanted to
try and like cut that off at the knees. I guess,

(13:31):
but I don't know how concerned he even was about that.
If you're writing because you want to tell a story,
you can't be too focused on just wanting to surprise
your readers. You can absolutely want to surprise them, but
if that's your focus at the expense of the story itself,

(13:51):
you're focusing in the wrong place. And I'm just curious
what it was like for him, you know, because he's
obviously really involved in the fandom. He knew that people
were thinking this. And let's see, when Macayel and Surreal
both looked at the fate of Athan and Lindon, I
thought there was no way he could be oz. I

(14:11):
figured there was no way he could hide from their
direct examination. That's a really good point, Andy, And I
don't think that, like we know after look like Surreal
had said that when Lynden met Ethan, that was like
the book where the predictions for fate began to be

(14:36):
at like sixty percent instead of you know, like things
began to shift and become less predictable at that point.
And again I should have realized, but I figured it
was the connection to osmanthis, to his bloodline. I did
not think it was direct. You know, Ethan wanting to

(15:00):
get to get joy Icon to prove to himself that
he truly changed is also heartbreaking. Oh my god, Bob,
And you're bringing up the fact that he kept manifesting
an icon and then casting it away, and again I'm
like now realizing it might have given him away. I

(15:21):
don't know how much all of his friends knew, Like
we get a bunch of information about osmanthis from reading
and being put into flashbacks and YadA, YadA, YadA, But
I don't know exactly everything that they know about osmanthis.
They have all these like dream tablets and there's information,

(15:41):
but it's unclear to me precisely what details they know.
So I don't know that if he manifested the broom Icon,
they would have been like, wait, but you know, I
gotta think probably that wouldn't do it either, because I
was thinking if he manifested the broom Icon, just him
taking like after his his ancestor, I don't think I

(16:05):
would have even then been like, oh my god, of
course that's what you know, Like, I don't think that
would have done the job. Caleb says from soul Smith,
what was that in Lindon's pocket and seamless enough that
he even his senses couldn't penetrate. Sorry, the chat is jumping,

(16:26):
so I keep like having to scroll back while I'm
in the midst of reading. Oh my god, there's so
much to scroll back on. Sorry. It had to be
the product of someone at least on Ethan's own level, well,
and like his he at that point, what was he
supposedly an underlord, so his sense is not being able

(16:49):
to penetrate something, Well, that makes sense, you know, at
least on his own level that they can keep him out.
That completely holds up within itself. It doesn't need to
mean that like you know what I mean. That's what's
works so well about this Emhn says Ethan, annoying everyone

(17:10):
has so much more context now too. Instead of him
being deliberately annoying, he's just a guy who grew up
all alone, desperately trying to make friends but not knowing how.
He's trying to make people laugh for the joy Icon,
but he's annoying them instead. Oh my god, em Hon,
that never occurred to me that he's like trying too

(17:31):
hard for the joy Icon. And it's honestly, that is
just so relatable though. I mean, I'm sure all of
you guys have been in this place where you're trying
to be like fun and cool and you're making jokes
and then you like kind of step back and realize
that you're embarrassing yourself and it's not working. Nobody likes it,

(17:54):
and you're just like, oh, I would like to sink
into the ground and die. Except Bathan's never actually gotten
to that point because I don't think his ego could.
Sammy says Chops to JAIDI show though, for fooling the
literal embodiment of death. How does he fool him? Oh,
that's right by you mean like launching the attack against

(18:18):
right right right well, And that's the thing, like and
ray Gan Shan as well, It's not like he isn't foolable.
He has his amazing sight, but he has dampened himself
so much so that people can't tell. And it's clear
like he's trying to keep his powers in a certain
place that feels reasonable for the level that he's supposed

(18:39):
to be on. And it also makes so much sense now, guys,
why we never saw him advance like it's always happened
off page even though it well, I guess we didn't.
He has the we we do see him say, I see.

(19:00):
I'm wondering like if that was actually an advancement or
if that was just him repeating a thing that he
said when he first advanced, and he just sort of
like took a bit of the veil off of himself
and it comes across as an advancement, but that's not

(19:21):
really what was happening. I don't know. I'm interested in
the answer to that, though. So Jake says eight and
was actually the first Cradle character Will had. That's fun.
Ethan glaring at the rat Abadon when he presented penance
as a prize makes more sense now too. They were
giving away his weapon that he forged.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Oh my god, see you guys like this is rereading this,
It's going to be a gold mine. It is going
to be so rewarding to go back through this, like
I immediately want to start over. That's just where I'm
at with this. I am going back and I'm starting over.

(20:03):
I have to I have to know, I have to
see all the things now, like that's a requirement. So
Asher says, I never had the sense that he was relaxing.
I always had the feeling he was at least trying
to make a new role for himself, that he wasn't
tangled up with the Abadam. But I did not make
the connection with Athan oh regarding me being like he's
on a beach somewhere.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
That's fair, uh, Sush says. Side note, the prologue is
ethen Slash is manthis right after Tiberian's death. Right, That's
what I assumed at the time, that it was osmanthis
right after Tiberian's death. But I didn't obviously know that
Athan was part of that, or opposite, I thought it

(20:43):
was Athan, but I didn't know Osmanthus, Asher says, one
question I do have is how the hell has Athan
reset his advancement. But I'll also continue to hold the
kind of power he has, so again also curious. I'm
assuming that this is part of this shroud that he's
been using, but I mean, I don't I'm not totally

(21:04):
sure how any of that works. We haven't been given
a lot of detail, and I think that's purposeful. Min
says Ethan. Being friends with the death Sacred Beast the
JAIDI show tried to hire makes sense. He probably knew
their nature very well to make friends with them. I
wonder if they were aware of who he was. I

(21:25):
don't know what kind of like loyalty sacred Beasts would
have or do you know what I mean? So like
I could I could almost see them being like, yeah,
we know that guy is nobody, to fuck with him.
We're not gonna like inform you about it. But nah,
we're not fucking with that at all. Em Hans says,
what must the Black Flame Emperor be thinking? Now? How

(21:47):
much would Machio pay for that dream tap? Oh God,
that's true, Machio getting to see Ethan get kicked. Honestly,
Ethan really like let himself take a lot of shit
for the sake of his mission, and like he had to.
It's absolutely required, But It's the kind of thing where

(22:08):
it's moments like that where I sit back and realize, like,
my pride is definitely a hindrance to me in some
ways because there are things that I realized I couldn't abide.
I'm just realizing that abadon and abide might be connected.
I don't know if that's anything. So Min says, the

(22:31):
origin shroud completely cut off his previous power slash advancement
and even knowledge until he unlocked it. Just like a
Shami aara. He really did not have access to those
powers until he unlocked it. And depending on your interpretation,
he may really have died if he died as Athan
and Min says, it's in the book, but I don't

(22:56):
know if it's like said specifically about if he died.
So I'm gonna I don't think that Men is saying that,
like Will has confirmed this. It's just Min's theory. But
I can understand it, and I'm trying to just not
read only comments. But you guys have like interesting points
to make, so I want to address them. Will make

(23:19):
some of the best twists. Just the execution and setup
are always so clean. There's a reason he adjusted his
path to pure instead of death. I think because he
wants to be more human. Pure Evil says they made
things that could block Ethan's senses at the Young Crown Tournament.
See it keeps jumping around. I'm sorry, guys, Ethan did

(23:39):
not want to manifest his old icons because he's desperate
to change the facts of his existence. I want Mercy
to manifest the joy icon when he kicks her mother
out of Cradle. I don't know if that's happening. Like
it feels like he doesn't really want to fuck with
Cradle too much, you know, Like he tells Lindon he
can't repair Dross because it's not directly related to the

(24:05):
fate of the iteration in the way. And I don't
feel like Malice is at that point either, But who knows.
And Caleb says, we saw Overlord And even then he
talks about how the revelation has been the same for
a long time. I don't even remember that he said
that what a fucking sneaky mastered will so he was

(24:32):
speed running Cradle is the way. B Moore says this.
Miss T says cover this with Rashawn, miss T, I
cannot tell you how tempted I am to do that,
and if I do, I have to wait until all
of them are out, and I know that won't be
too long. I mean, this is a guy that I
can rely on for this, but I really really really

(24:55):
really want to and I just it's the kind thing
where I'm just like, I know that Andy realizes I
may never have read this series if he didn't commission it.
But I could see Andy being like, man, I paid
so much money for her to cover these goddamn books,
and now she's just gonna put them out there for free.

(25:17):
But Andy, I wouldn't have done it. You're the reason, buddy,
So that's you. I cannot tell you, guys, how much
fun this has been to cover. Oh my god, truly, Like,
I have enjoyed a lot of the stuff that I
have covered, more than I ever expected. But Cradle is
just on another level. And I keep continually thinking when

(25:43):
a new book comes out that I'm like getting my
hopes up too high and like, well, I mean, you know,
everybody has like some off days. Maybe it's not and
like the last book was not fun. I won't say
that the last book was a bummer, but it was
still really good. It was still really well done. It

(26:04):
was just sad, and it's sad for so many reasons.
It's sad for Lindon returning home in the way his
family is. It's sad for the destruction that winds up
happening despite the fact that they'd like try to do
everything right. It's sad because of Dross's like horrible injury.
All of it is. So it's just heartbreaking. But despite that,

(26:28):
it's great, you know what I'm saying. So let's see.
Caleb says, Nah, he wouldn't have died if he died
as eighth, and Will confirmed he wouldn't have been able
to die during his spoiler stream. Oh he did a
spoilers stream. Damn it. I wish I could have. I'm
sure it's somewhere to watch, like past recordings. But all right,

(26:54):
so we have to add, Yeah, be more as exactly
on the same page as me. I have spent twenty
seven minutes at this point talking about your comments, and
now I have to stop doing that. So we're gonna
start at twenty five, and we are with Emra silent born,
and she feels something intense happening and does she had

(27:19):
felt the dread God's rise and thought that was as
bad as it was gonna get today, and then she
feels the breaking from the way and the arrival of
the mad King, although she does not yet realize that's
what it is, I don't think, and she has this

(27:40):
moment of like, wow, I really I didn't think it
was gonna get worse. I feel like we've all been here, right,
something bad happens this day? Am I right? And then
you fucking like total your car and you're just like, wow,
I really miss that moment where I said this day,
am I right? And how good shit was back then?

(28:05):
And then we go to Malice, and this is a
really interesting moment. Malice has a reaction I could never
have predicted. And I mean this Malice suddenly feels like
everything has been put into perspective. And I'll be honest, guys,

(28:25):
if you had asked me how I thought she react,
I think I would have expected territoriality and rage. I
think I would have expected pride to come forward and
her to feel that like, how dare they come invade
my fucking play? Like resolution, I mean, there has to

(28:48):
be a sense to what's happening that is so immediately
there is nothing you can do to fight this that
is hard to like depict on the page, because that
is the only real explanation for her reaction being what
it is is that she instantly knows. Oh, I have

(29:09):
no say in this, you know, But I don't think
that I had really thought about the fact that even
monarchs would feel that. I think that if you had
quizzed me about the expectations of any of the Abadon
appearing in battle in Cradle, I would have thought that

(29:33):
the like people anybody from Underlord and below, would immediately quail,
and that there would be others who sort of attempted
to fight back, or at least were deluded enough to
think that they could maybe fight back. And instead we

(29:53):
get the complete breaking of her ability to see any
potential futures, which that is a whole other animal. And
it didn't really enter my head that breaking from the
way and the like imminent destruction of Cradle would reflect

(30:17):
in such a final sort of manner. I don't know
what I expected that to look like. I think I
would have expected her to just like not be able
to use her ability. I would have expected her to
like attempt it and like it causes pain, because whatever
she's attempting isn't possible anymore something like that. But instead

(30:40):
both her and Emmerius are trying to like see ahead,
and they both cannot access anything. And so Malice here,
she's in the middle of fucking berating Mercy Reminder, and
all of a sudden she's just like, what the fuck
am I? What what a was I have said about

(31:03):
the fucking world is ending? And I'm out here yelling
at my daughter, whom I love. Actually, I cannot believe
that I have gotten this fucked up. And she looks
back at all of these different moments that I found like,
kind of she should have left Fury with a better goodbye.

(31:30):
Their last conversation had been a fight. He had wanted
her to leave, wanted all the monarchs to leave. She'd refused,
as she always had and always would. Is she in
that moment saying and always would, in the way that

(31:51):
she's like I would always even if the world weren't ending,
Like once the world stops ending, is she gonna still stay?
What do you guys think? Because I know the next
book isn't out, so you guys don't know, So I
get to genuinely ask you, and you guys have to
give me guesses, which is so much fun. I really

(32:14):
want this to make an impression on her. But the
thing about these kinds of revelations is that they can
be very real in the moment, and then you get
any sort of distance from them at all, and all
of a sudden they are not a priority anymore. We
can convince ourselves of anything that we want to be
true in any particular way. So I don't really know

(32:37):
what to think in terms of that, you know, Yeah,
I can't tell I love too that there is a moment.
Mercy says, I'm scared, and it's you know. Oftentimes this
would be written as like reminding Malice of when her

(32:59):
daughter was very small, the way she used to be scared,
But instead it's mother, I'm scared, she said, as she
had never said when she was a child, and like,
just really, that tells you a lot about the relationship
and who Mercy is, you know, And she says it's
nothing to worry about, Malice lied, Everything's going to be

(33:22):
all right, And we go to north Strider and his
codex is just telling him a destroyer has come. And
then we finally get back to ragon Shen because I
really wanted to know what rag On Shen was making
of all of this, and what he's making of it
is honestly, Ragon Shen's having kind of the same moment

(33:44):
as Zeal where he's like, really, now, I finally I've
been planning this for like hundreds of years, and now
this is when you decide to show fucking typical Jesus Christ,
you know, like he's he's just so frustrated, and it's
like kind of bitter honestly about it. And it ends

(34:11):
with the stage could only scream Lindon was frozen in terror,
and all of them there's a moment of them realizing
shit's going really wrong, and he has to point to
the sky and like show them the fact that the
stars are going out, and they all come to accept

(34:35):
pretty quickly that this is the end. And they have
some moments of sharing with one another how much they
mean to one another. And this is just so like
again with feeling like things are really earned. Look, I'm
gonna just be honest with you, guys. There are so

(35:00):
many stories that I've read where people are supposed to
be really good friends, they're supposed to be able to
rely on each other and for whatever reason the friendship
does not have an effect on me. It's just, yeah,
they're a character, and yeah in the story they're friends.
But a lot of the time what the author does

(35:23):
a little bit too much of is they try to
let them kind of snipe at each other or not
always agree, but like in a way that they think
is being cute or in good faith or at least
like maybe their friend fucks up, but it's forgivable, And

(35:47):
a lot of the time for me, I don't think
certain things are forgivable in the way they are treated.
And that's maybe saying something about me, But I am
really some who I draw really firm boundaries, and if
you violate that, I'm very much fine with tossing you.

(36:07):
Like I have made my stance clear. You know the cost.
If you think I'm bluffing, you will find out. And
that's just how I operate. So when I watch other
characters that like take a lot of shit or maybe
they're shitty to their friend, and then we're supposed to
really believe this friendship and anything happens between them, it

(36:28):
can be really difficult. It's the same thing for me
as romances I am supposed to care about couples, and
I'm just like, literally, who the fuck gives a shit,
you know, And these people have grown close in a
way that is so real and so acknowledged in the

(36:50):
different levels of it, you know. Like what I find
so interesting is they're all together and the first thing
that I think Yarin points out, like, hey, where's Mercy
And they realize that they are not sure where she
is and they're assuming, I guess that she's with her
mom still, And it takes a moment before Lindon is like,
where's Athan? Because Athan, while he is part of their

(37:16):
group and somebody that Linden admires and I think Linden
would call him a friend, the kind of friend that
he is makes sense that he's one of the last
people that Lyndon thinks of. And even Zeal is like
keeping his distance from all of them, and they have
to explicitly say it's Zeal, Hey, uh, you want to

(37:38):
die alone? Is that what you're saying? Or are you
gonna come over here? Like it has to be spelled
out for him what his choices are and the decision
that he's making. And there's just so much real honest,
I'm friends with all of these people, but it's different

(37:59):
with each of them. Relationship with them is different with
each of their you know what I mean, like because
I feel like a lot of times authors will try
and pretend that like, oh, we're all in this together
and we're a family, and it's like, well, yeah, but like, also,
can we be honest about the fact that there are
going to be some people that you feel more comfortable
around in just a one on one situation than others.

(38:20):
That's just how it works. So I really like that
we have this where they are acknowledging what they mean
to each other, but in very specific ways in each case.
And eventually, when Lindon goes over to Ethan, Ethan is

(38:45):
on his knees, sobbing and honestly still not thinking that
he's Osrael. I'm like, that makes sense. I'm thinking he
thought he was getting some where in his mission and
now this shit is happening, and as far as he knows,

(39:06):
Osrael has abandoned them and he's not going to be
able to help after all. This is the mindset that
I'm still in. And then Linden says thank you, and
he's like genuinely taken aback and tells Linden that he's
proud of him, and Linden is like unprepared for how

(39:30):
hard that hits. And you guys, there is a moment
when he says to Dross later, you've been quiet and

(39:55):
I'm gonna cry. Draws says, you did not abandon me,
so I have nothing left to fear, y'all. I died
a little too much overload. Can't handle it. Oh. I

(40:31):
don't know what hit me harder about that. The fact
that Dross remembers that, because I think a part of
me thought this version of Dross wouldn't even remember what
had happened and what he said, or the fact that
he's even saying this to Lindon when he is in

(40:57):
the state that he's currently in. He isn't old Dross
and he still feels this way toward Lindon anyway, you know,
Oh my god, you guys, I can't ugh. My whole
throat just like closed up. How do I keep talking? Anyway?

(41:19):
I had to jump back to talk about that because
he goes and sees Ethan right after this, and this
is this is when Athan says to everyone, I'd hoped
we would have many more years together. I wanted to
see the sights beyond this world with you, all of you.

(41:43):
And this is when we have the mad King turn
up in the sky and twist everything out of shape.
And if this is going to be the end, then
remember one thing for me. I loved every second with
you all. I really truly had so much fun. And

(42:09):
Jarin says, if there's another side, we'll catch you there,
and he says, yes, I suppose you will, which still
not understanding. I'm thinking he is meaning the same thing
that she is meaning, but he means the other side
of I can't be this to you anymore. And I'm

(42:31):
going to miss this, in particular, this relationship. I won't
you know. So Ethan says, it seems I'll be leaving
a little sooner than the rest of you. I'll miss

(42:51):
you all when I'm gone. I'm gonna tell you, guys,
each step of the way, how much of an inkling
I had at this point, what was going on. I
will be leaving a little sooner than the rest of you.

(43:14):
Zero percent, zero percent at this point, still not getting it.
I'm thinking it's his connection with Ozmantheus that is going
to like cause something to happen, or that he was
like restraining his power more than he let onto them
because he wanted them to be by his side, but
that he was potentially going to be able to advance

(43:36):
immediately and become a monarch and thus like ascend, and
so now that he was being sort of, you know,
put on the spot, he was going to do it.
I think that's more what I was, you know, thinking
to myself. And Linden says, this is it for us.

(43:57):
We're all gone, and he pulls out the marble and says, no,
just me zero percent. Still not getting it, okay, Can
I just like I have to emphasize to you all.
I am still brushing my teeth and being like, oh

(44:20):
my god, we're finally about to meet Osmanthias. Is he
like summoning him? Like, what is he doing? The marble cracks,
remove restraints and release authority authorization zero eight zero zero
eight Osrael zero percent. Still not getting it at all.

(44:51):
I cannot tell you, guys how fucking dense I am.
I swear to God. The world stops shaking. North Strider
stared into the reflective black surface of his codex. The
Destroyer has come. Oh Athan has succeeded in summoning Osmanthius

(45:21):
zero percent, I swear. So then we have rag On
Shed being like what now, which, honestly, that energy is
so funny. I have hated him so much and I
really still do, but like his entire I am sick

(45:42):
of this shit vibe right now is just such a
great foil to everybody else's utter panic. This is a
man who is just like finishing his iced coffee as
the entire coffee shop screams and flees and descend into
a riot and they're stealing shit out of the fucking

(46:03):
like cash drawer, and he's just like And then we
go to Malice and she has a moment of she
passes out. She's back in her world and everything is crumbling,

(46:24):
and she's like, I know, which was so funny. She's like,
why am I seeing this? I'm having my last moments
with my daughter and you can't even let me have that.
Why am I being shoved into having to watch this
that I know already? And then all of a sudden,
this figure is cut in half and she's like, wait

(46:44):
what And she turns around and there's a figure towering
over her, a long haired figure with a familiar face
and a scythe propped on his shoulder, a familiar face

(47:05):
because osmanthis looks a lot like Athan, so it makes
sense that malice zero person. Still I can't. And then

(47:29):
Athan ran a hand along his hair and it grew out.
That's the one. That's where I got it. Fucking Will
had to like hold the book in front of my
face and point. I was just like, no, no, no,

(47:53):
I know what's going on. It's fine, it's fine. And
then his hair starts to grow, and I'm like, it's what.
Why is that the thing? I think, because like, if
he can control his hair, then he would have been
Athan's hair is a constant in this world. I know

(48:15):
how that rolls. So if we're fucking with his hair,
this is a different thing. Like, I just find it
so amazing that it was his hair that got to
me before all of these other giant blinking neon signs

(48:41):
and even this when I'm like, wait, it's not until
really a veil slid out of his spirit like cloth
made from smoke. And that was when I just yelled fuck.
And Owen in the bedroom is just giggling wildly to himself. Y'all.

(49:09):
I swear to God, what a fucking Dodo bird, I am.
This is a humbling moment. This is a moment of like,
every time I start to think, well, I'm pretty good
at figuring things out, I'm gonna remind myself of every

(49:30):
instance of when I should have realized there are like
twelve of them, and still I was twisting it to
fit the concept that I was already going with, because
it could have It's like, to be honest, everything that
I was thinking like it could have been explained by
my theory of what was happening, Like it made sense

(49:53):
together anyway, you know, Like and Ethan doesn't want to
look over his shoulder because he doesn't want to see
their expressions as they realize who he is. And I
love this moment. He says, you ruined everything, and the

(50:13):
mad King says, how are you here? You couldn't have known?
Ethan hadn't known. I always know, Aithan said. I laughed
so much at that that he is even as an obadawn.
He's fucking posturing he didn't know. And yet he's going

(50:37):
to be like, no, this is on purpose. I completely
plan this. Like that is just it's great to see
that his personality is still familiar. We know this guy anyway,
you know, And then he strikes at Athan, trying to
do so before Athan's armor can form, and Athan is like,

(51:02):
I'm sorry, are you Are you trying to attack me
with a scythe avoid scythe Just to be clear, I
want to make sure that I understand how you're choosing
to attack me, and that you thought this was a

(51:24):
good idea, And honestly, this is just so satisfying. And
he says it's Eerie's work and someone else's someone who
should have known better better, And the Fiend and the
King split apart at this point, and the Fiend is

(51:46):
like trying to be like, no, we have to go,
we have to fight this fucking guy. Let's do this,
and the King is trying to reason with him, and
he says that he thought Osrael took off because Ozriel
had finally seen the light, that Ozriel finally realized that

(52:07):
the Abadaon were a kind of corrupt, worthless system, and
he had decided to abandon it, but he wasn't prepared
to fight actively against them, which honestly makes a ton
of sense, Like, yeah, I kind of had wondered that myself.
I think that I had like floated the idea, you know,

(52:29):
And I'm not going to get into every single bit
of this fight, but they are really causing some damage
around them, as you know, as they are striking at
each other, and Ethan is realizing that, like his time
down as a like a mortal play, acting as a

(52:53):
mortal has really taken a bit of a toll on
his power, and he's not as prepared as he normally is.
And then he starts to gather darkness on the scythe
and dhar Uman is like, I'm not sure that I
believe you will destroy your home just to kill me,

(53:18):
and Athan is just one hundred percent gonna go for it.
And by go for it, I mean he is putting
all the cards on a table with this gamble. It
turns out he's fucking bluffing. He was not gonna do this,
but the fiend inside the King does buy this bluff,

(53:46):
and dhar umanuh he Ethan consents, doesn't believe it, but
because they're so connected, the fiend flees and he yanks
Dromon along with him. And that I really enjoy them

(54:08):
fighting within one another and both of them having different
objectives and points of view. I just thought that was
like a clever way to handle it, where Dhroman, you
can't write him off as being easy to trick or
a coward, because that wasn't entirely him that made this decision.
So it could almost be possible that it's like in

(54:30):
the future now that the fiend has maybe realized I
don't know if they realized that he wasn't going to
do make the strike though, because it's not like Athan
says out loud, Wow, I'm glad he believed me, you know,
it's not like he So they just have to kind
of go on faith as to whether Athan was really
gonna do it or not. And then he lets out

(54:56):
of breath and everything begins to like not repair. But
he had pulled color out of the universe and it
starts to like bleed back into everything, and the scythe
is like breaking, and he just lets it break the
rest of the way, And if the court ever allowed

(55:18):
him to regain his power, they would have felt this
clash and would be on their way. Ethan hoped it
wasn't surreal. He still owed her a debt and he
was feeling enough guilt as it was, So then he
comes back down to his friends and he tells Lindon

(55:41):
with the labyrinth, you should actually still be able to
repair dross if you do it quick, And then Lindon
just says, who are you? And Ethan flinches. My power
was restricted, but I was still me. It was real,

(56:02):
I promise, And Little Blue throws her arms around his
shin and he starts crying, and it says he hadn't
cried as Osriel. Maybe ever, his presence could tell him
for certain once he recovered that from amadon Lockdown. Guys,
do you remember Athan's reaction when he realized that Linden

(56:25):
had a presence? It may like again, it makes so
much more sense. It makes so much more sense all
of this, like how excited he was about that, truly,
it just you know, and the moments in a Labyrinth
where he says that osmanthis was not kind, and knowing

(56:47):
now that he was talking about himself and is looking
at parts of himself, and how and how disgusted he
is in a way by his own behavior. Listen, It's
like going back to an old live journal account and
realizing that you were a petty bitch, you know, like

(57:09):
it really, but you've got millennia of growth so the
difference between now and then is so much more stark
and extreme, and the things that you've done along the
way are so much more reprehensible because of the level
of power you had, Like just forget it. And Orthos,
I don't know why you made such a secret. We

(57:30):
wouldn't have fucking known you were anyway. Fucking Orthos in
the clinch always comes through Dross, give me your secrets,
let me taste your power, Zeal, can you tell me
how to get to Sage? And Yarrein just says did
you did you really? You let me think we were

(57:51):
gonna catch up. It's not too late, Ethan said. And
then Lyndon extends a hand and says see you soon,
which really touches Athan because this kind of greeting is
not something from Linden's land. It's from Athan. So he's

(58:11):
like purposefully doing something to you know, acknowledge where he's from.
And yet like, as they're doing this, I was like,
it would be really funny if Lindon was just like
it and now I'm gonna drain you. That's not exactly
what happens, but it does kind of happen a little bit,
and it like Ethan, it just looks at him like

(58:35):
come on, and Linden coughs and sorry, it's a new arm.
And I think that he's being honest about the fact
that the arm isn't like maybe entirely in his control.
But I do think that probably thirty percent of that
is Linden just going, well, let's let's see what happens, though, Like,
I don't think he'll be mad at me if I

(58:56):
just try it out, you know, like this was so funny. Ough.
So then we go to chapter twenty six, Surreal begins
to repair things. All of the Abadon turn up, and

(59:21):
Lindon is realizing that everything when they are here just
feels right. This like calming, comforting presence is so intense,
which honestly is so nice. Our friends have been through
a lot. I feel like they've earned this moment, you know,
of just oh somebody else is doing something. Oh thank god,

(59:45):
you know. And basically the Abadon, like some of them
are friendlier than others, but as a group, they're like, dude,

(01:00:07):
are you fucking even slightly aware of what has been
going on and what your little vacation cost us? Do
you have the slightest idea and the answer is like, no,
he does not. I'm sure he will figure it out

(01:00:28):
shortly with his sight, but it does not seem like
he had the slightest clue as this was all going on,
and they arrest him. Basically, Ethan stays behind just a

(01:00:49):
fraction of a second longer and looks at Lindon and
says it was fun, and then he disappears. Ah my god.
So then we have surreal and she comes over and
apologizes to Lyndon and is like, I think I may

(01:01:10):
have fucked up. Like I know that what I did
and the information I gave you was meant to help,
and I meant it, but also there are some really
huge repercussions that I'm not entirely sure can be fixed.
And I should have realized what was going on when

(01:01:33):
your fate became sort of fractured. And she tells him
that Athan's gonna be tried. I'm gonna keep calling him Ethan.
I know he's osmantheus Ozrael really and maybe by the
next book I'll be transitioning to calling him o Israel,
but at the moment I still have to say Ethan.
It feels like that's his name. But she says he'll

(01:01:54):
be tried in court because he broke our laws. But
he is also literally irreplaceable, and she says he was
trying to create a replacement for himself. And Linden has

(01:02:15):
this moment of like, wait what, there was no pursuing
power like that while stuck in cradle? Can he wait
a little longer? We have unfinished business here. Repairing a
broken system is a worthy goal, but you'll be on

(01:02:36):
your own. We've interfered far too much already, and anything
further could break cradle beyond recovery. And you should know
that you will find more enemies than allies. And Linden says,
I'd still like to try and then, and I would
hate to leave the world behind without getting everything I
could out of it, which is truly a whole mood.

(01:03:02):
Like Lyndon has squeezed the tube of toothpaste, but now
he has to go on Amazon and find one of
those little toothpaste tube squeezer clips and really get the
last of it out. And I am not mad at

(01:03:23):
him for that, not one bit. May as well go
for it, you know, especially when you know what you're
about to be like up against and mixed in with like, yeah,
best to really hit that hard. So she disappears, and

(01:03:43):
Hearin is just like woof, okay, that was a lot,
and Ziel just says I'm gonna sleep. Uh. So we
have each of the monarchs realizing who the fuck Ethan is,
and Mercy is just like that can't be right because
he isn't terrifying what and Malice is like, isn't he

(01:04:11):
And he was right up mixed in with my daughter's business.
And she calls him that thing, which I thought was
a little strong, and they She reports to Mercy that

(01:04:33):
Yarin and Linden are both unharmed, and like Malice wants
to know why Malice was not so pleased. This is
the kind of thing that makes me think Malice is
just going to go back to her old tricks now
that the danger has passed. The fact that she's like
not glad that her daughter's friends are okay because her

(01:04:53):
daughter is glad, like, yeah, your priorities went right back
to where they were. Rayganshef and sweated so much that
his mane was matted to his skin. He had plotted
against Athan, had taunted him, had slain his mentor no,
his descendant, or rather descendants. If Ragan shn had been

(01:05:21):
allowed to live now, it was only for some more
gruesome death later his students. He left them behind for us.
The sage of calling storms wore a crazed smile. Then
I will meet death on my feet and Ragan Shen

(01:05:45):
ends with him looking at the hunger binding and being like,
I gotta get them the fuck out of here. And
that is how that book ends, is him being like
and I honestly, I don't think it has hasn't occurred
to Athan that they will handle rag On Shen, but

(01:06:05):
the absolute self absorption for him to be like he
left them here for us, I'm like, I mean in general,
like they need to deal with this monarch issue. Yeah,
but there's like a vibe to him that makes it
feel a lot more pointed than it is. And it's like,

(01:06:25):
it's not like vengeance, which you deserve, by the way,
and that's probably why he thinks it, because he does
deserve it and he knows he does. But it's about
the balance being restored in a general sense that they
are working on. But he's still so like it's about him,
you know, always about him. So then we go to

(01:06:50):
our bloopers, which is the first one is Athan cracking
the marble and it's a teeny tiny sight and little
Blue it turns out is actually us real. That is
so good. Then we've got Linden spraying rag on Shen

(01:07:15):
with a spray bottle like you do with a cat.
That is such a corny joke. It shouldn't be funny,
but there it is. And I just like, for my part,
I have to mention we have one cat that will
run tearing away just hearing a spray bottle, and then

(01:07:37):
we have one fucking gremlin that will stand there and
let you spray her and look at you like, yeah,
you want to fucking start something. And I am always
so mad at the fact that she doesn't like react
to It's not even like it doesn't annoy her, because

(01:08:00):
she clearly is irritated, but it's like she knows the
reaction I'm trying to get and she's like, I will
be damned if I run away because of water, okay augh.
And then we have Linden talking to Dross where do

(01:08:21):
you put our odds of survival? And it's the moment
where he says to Draws, you're not cheering me up?
Was that the goal, then kick Athan, Linden did, and Ethan.
Basically a whole line of people that passes the horizon

(01:08:43):
show up ready to kick Ethan as well. Front of
the line is Naruguay, Captain of the sky Sworn. Can
I just tell you, guys how much I have missed Naruguay.
I am not kidding when I tell you that I
think about him every time I read these books. Wish
that he's such a dickhead. But I loved his character,

(01:09:04):
and I understood his frustration with Athan so much, and
I am dying to know what he thought of all
of this, because the impression that I'm getting is literally
everybody on this planet now knows who Athan was. So
what does no way make of this at this point?
You know? Ah? And then Lindon and Jilong talking about

(01:09:29):
the advancement, and Linden is like, you know what really
helped me the threat of imminent death. So I'm a
couple of advancements ahead of you. And maybe if you
knew that you had to fight me to the death
in a year, it would do something for you, like
I'm just saying, and I could possibly do you the

(01:09:53):
favor of taking an arm off. Also because that helped
for in my case. I'm just this is so good.
Which hand would you say you like the most? And
then we have this moment where Athan is he's with

(01:10:18):
Yarn and Linden and they find old poetry and you
know what, actually this really does tie in with me
saying it's like an old live journal account. I didn't
even think of this, but like clearly Will is thinking
the same way, and he's just really bad at the poetry,
and he winds up setting the book of poetry on

(01:10:39):
fire so that they can't keep making fun of him.
How do we kill the dread gods? Linden asked, Whisper
lean forward, attend me closely, for this is ancient knowledge.
There is only one thing that can kill the dread gods,
points Lindon gasped, I knew it best joke. I think

(01:11:03):
out of all the bloopers, that's the best one. It's
a close one, because that poem one is really good also,
But for me, I think that was just like that
was just such a nice callback overall, you know. And
then the very last one is Athan talking about how
amazing osmanthis was like the best soul smith perhaps that

(01:11:28):
the world has ever seen, famous for his power, his
gorgeous features, his chiseled bod. It's all just like and
then this is you, isn't it. You're talking about yourself? What?
But how could it be me? It's true. I can

(01:11:49):
see a certain resemblance in his carved musculature, his perfect
bone structure, his fatherly yet mischievous smile. Yeah, it's you.
End of book, guys. How long do you have to

(01:12:13):
wait for the next one? I can't bear it. It's
just making me so sad. Oh when I meant to
ask at the back that says also by Will White,
there's Cradle Foundation, Cradle, Path of Gold, and Cradle Rise

(01:12:34):
of Lords. Is that just like a different breakdown of
the books? Or are those like companion books or what's
the deal with those? Because I will read them, like obviously,
if there anything that is not this main series, then
I will read them. It's fine. And I apologize everybody

(01:12:55):
because the chat is still blowing up and I haven't
acknowledged it. But you guys understand, I'm fifteen minutes over.
The only reason I can really get away with that
is because I have no other recording schedule today. I
already did my others in the morning, so it wound
up working out. But let's see, m Hans says, now

(01:13:18):
you get to suffer with the rest of us waiting
for the next one. I already had to. I had
to suffer because this book came out months ago and
I just had to sit and wait. So I have
suffered more than all of you. I will say. Chances
are when the next book comes out, it will not
have been commissioned yet, so I will have to wait
yet again and just watch all of you guys around

(01:13:39):
me reading it and knowing things so that. So I
just hope you guys appreciate the sacrifices that I make
personally for this show. I just hope you understand. Three
book bundle, says Evil. Damn. I was hoping that it
was some more content. Will did, saying the kickstarted. He

(01:14:02):
still plans on releasing two this year. What wait, you
mean to like including Reaper? Right? Wait? No, reabook came
out in November, didn't it, did it? So two my

(01:14:25):
guess is May or June? Are you kidding? Guys? I
am already pre booked through October. Oh, this is gonna suck.
I have to wait so long. I mean, even if

(01:14:46):
Andy were to like immediately commission and he can't because
he doesn't have any idea how long they are. That's
the issue is, like we have to estimate the number
of episodes it will take for me to cover the
whole thing. So even knowing when the book gonna come out,
unless we have any sort of vague page count, he
still can't commission it. Even if he wants to, we

(01:15:07):
don't know. So it's gonna be a while. I gotta
prepare you guys for a wait. I hate to do it,
but that is how it works. And but you know,
like God bless this man for his production speed. I cannot.

(01:15:30):
George R. Martin just posted a really shitty blog post
about how he just doesn't really care about the main
series that much. And I mean, that's not what he said,
but like reading between the lines, that's exactly what he said.
And Rashan and I are currently covering song of by
Some Fire and we're both low key like why are
we doing this again? And then there's fucking Will White

(01:15:52):
and he is just churning them out. Man, be more,
says might be just more Saturday recordings. I cannot do that, Unfortunately,
I was able to make an exception, but the Thursday
is actually what I've been recording on Friday is going
to be moved back to Thursday. But normally today I

(01:16:15):
have Song of Ice and Fire recording with retaurant in
the morning, and then every other Saturday I have an
evening recording live for patrons on Patreon. So Saturdays are taken.
Asher is getting all bull doggy over here. She's my
guard dog. No, we may not ask that as sure,
it's all right, don't worry about it, Jake says, I

(01:16:39):
don't think we'll ever get the end of Songaways and Fire,
and at this point I don't really care. And that's
the thing. I can understand not caring, but it's difficult
when it's my what I'm covering, you know, for my job.
It's like it gives it a completely different vibe when
you just know that you may never get any answers.
It's just like it puts a pall over the coverage

(01:17:03):
in a lot of ways, and it's a shame. I
don't want it to, but there is a sense of, well,
we may never fucking know, thanks, you know, and it
just it sucks. Yeah, so I'd say Sunday, but no,
that's fair. Yeah, Sundays are untouchable. That's Owen's only day

(01:17:23):
off because he also works six days a week. So Austin,
I hope you keep doing song Aways and Fire. We're
we're gonna keep doing it. I'm pretty much like and
we said this we recorded today. Likely it's gonna be
by the end of this book. We're on Storm of
Swords we just started. If by the end of this
book the deviations from the show aren't interesting enough to

(01:17:45):
keep Rashawn's attention and make her feel like she wants
to continue, then we may consider dropping it. But at
the moment, we don't really have any true plans to
drop it. It's just kind of a bummer, you know.
But this is not a Song of Ay Fire cast,
So I am way over time. I really have to wrap.
But again, thank you so much Andy for commissioning this.
Thank you to all of you for hanging out in

(01:18:07):
the chat with me. I hope you've been enjoying the coverage.
I hope that you are satisfied by my reaction to
the finale of this book. And I just have enjoyed
it so much. So I love you, guys. Love these
books will if you're listening. I love you, buddy, Thank

(01:18:28):
you for this. It's a gift. Until next time to
the Loo motherfuckers. That was an Unspoiled Network podcast.